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Jul 4, 2014 09:31 PM

Where to find fish broth (no mix of chicken or pork) miso ramen?

Dear chowshounds, I have been dealing with my craving with the Yamachan fish miso ramen i found in Surise Mart. But wondering where in the city can i find a bowl of freshly made fish based miso ramen that tastes decent? Or I better stick with Yamachan? Thanks

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  1. As I recall, the only fish listed in the ingredients are bonito & dried anchovy. It's a pretty standard miso-dashi, I think. Of course saying that, I can't think of one in town off the top of my head aside from a place in Williamsburg - Suzuke or something? But there must be a few others.

    1. I think I saw it at Hino- maru in Midtown east. It's on 53rd.

      1 Reply
      1. re: Monica

        Thanks. Is there ramen good? Never been there.

          1. re: nomadmanhattan

            Well, this sounds bad (see attached Facebook post). Hope he gets better soon.

            I assume the future venue he refers to is Tokyo Tapas Cafe on Cornelia ...

            1. re: squid kun

              Thanks for sharing the news, squid. It is, however, a bad news :( so sorry to hear that, though I never been to Kuboya. Now I feel obliged to show some moral support when Kubo san gets well.

              About Tokyo Tapas Cafe. it seems new - never heard about them before. Looks like they are serving izakaya foods.

        1. Maybe also check out Ramen Misoya - they only make miso ramens, probably most with a dashi base but some might be pork base (you'd have to ask)

          One of the best miso-dashi I've had in town wasn't ramen but the seafood toban yaki at Morimoto. A little pricier than the average ramen bowl, though...

          The Williamsburg place was "Suzume" - was off by one letter.

          5 Replies
          1. re: sgordon

            Misoya's ramen is almost certainly based on a thick heavy pork broth.

            1. re: Humbucker

              Yes, but they have a vegetarian ramen if you ask for it. It's good.

              1. re: michaelffff

                Their vegetarian ramen is really good! The OP could just add a side of bonito flakes into it.....

            2. re: sgordon

              Would you know if Suzume's salmon ramen is definitely no meat, just seafood?

              1. re: villainx

                It says "miso dashi" on the menu, so I assume it's not a pork or chicken base. Especially since on some other soups they offer the option of pork OR miso dashi broth.

            3. Hey guys/gals, thank you all for the input. Just to be more specific about what I am looking for, here is an example, Kaijin in Tokyo, which I was lucky to visit once upon a time.

              The broth is def shio asari. But I don't mind if it is mixed in with miso, as long as not made up of chicken stock or pork or beef.


              27 Replies
              1. re: nomadmanhattan

                Are you sure Kaijin has no chicken/pork/beef in the broth? I went there with that assumption, but um ... I think it is a blend. The broth was very delicate, but never got confirmation one way or another. Another thing, watch out for that awning on the landing area, that thing is delicate too if you lean on it!

                Ivan Plus (in Tokyo) had a couple of straight up fish broth ramen though. Hope he follows through with something similar in NY.

                Haha, I thought talking about Suzume was already off borough already.

                1. re: villainx

                  Frankly, the only thing I can only trust my nose and taste bud that the broth at Kaijin was indeed seafood only - so light, clean tasting couldn't be a blend of pork or even chicken.

                  Speaking of Suzume, I look at the menu and saw "taco"...I am not sure if I would go a fusion place for ramen :/ the menu seems so americanized to me.

                  1. re: nomadmanhattan

                    That broth at Kaijin looks completely different than the Yamachan. Kaijin's appears to be a fresh seasonal fish stock with no bonito or dried seafood, whereas Yamachan's is everything that Kaijin's isn't. Other than not containing pork or chicken, not seeing the similarity. I don't know of anyone in town making a fresh fish stock ramen, but it would be a nice option.

                    But if the point is simply to avoid pork/chicken broths (as opposed to *specifically* looking for fish) there are tons of vegetarian ramens around town.

                    As to Suzume: the broth will be, to you, either a.) tasty or b.) not. And there is no way to know if it will be a or b unless you try it. The presence of something called "taco" on the menu would appear to have no bearing on the result of such an experiment, unless you are planning on dipping the taco into your ramen broth.

                    For that matter, miso ramen isn't terribly traditional, it's a comparatively recent creation. And lots of Japanese ramen places "Americanize" their broths by emulsifying butter into them already.

                    Heck, ramen itself is inherently a fusion dish - it isn't even Japanese to begin with but a "Japanized" version of Chinese lamien.

                    1. re: sgordon

                      Adding butter, and miso for that matter, comes by way of Hokkaido, Japan....Don't know why Suzume calls their dish "miso dashi". Doesn't really make sense.

                      Ramen Yebisu in Wburg, which claims to be Sapporo style, makes a seafood broth miso ramen. Need to specify no pork topping and perhaps confirm they don't use meat in the stock.

                      1. re: Silverjay

                        "Don't know why Suzume calls their dish miso dashi"

                        Probably because it's made with a miso dashi broth? What doesn't make sense?

                        1. re: sgordon

                          Dashi is a stock. Some shops specify their dashi type - i.e. konbu, katsuo, niboshi, etc.

                          1. re: sgordon

                            Wouldn't miso dashi just be miso soup? My recipe for miso soup is make dashi then blend in miso. I wouldn't then throw ramen noodles in and call it miso ramen.

                            1. re: Bkeats

                              Tonkotsu would just be pork soup. And you'd throw ramen noodles in that and call it tonkotsu ramen.

                              1. re: sgordon

                                Tonkotsu usually has a dashi of some sort underneath. Ton-jiru would be pork soup and is a popular dish in Japan.

                                Went once to a Manhattan restaurant that advertised miso ramen and it was miso soup with soba noodles. Such an epic failure.

                                1. re: Silverjay

                                  Had the same thing happen to me once. I was like WTF is this? That's what made me mention it in the first place.

                                2. re: sgordon

                                  To me Tonkotsu is the name of a soup, Miso dashi are ingredients for a soup. Like contrasting chowder versus clam cream.

                                  1. re: Bkeats

                                    Chicken and noodles are ingredients for a soup... Chicken Noodle Soup.

                                    1. re: sgordon

                                      Dashi is a stock. Chicken noodle stock?

                                    2. re: Bkeats

                                      I am there with you. This discussion starts to get more and more confusing. For me, dashi is seasoning as if you would be using as soy sauce. Fish stock is one of the ingredients to the ramen dish I am looking for, which is as if you would be using as chicken stock and not to be blended with chicken or pork,

                                      1. re: nomadmanhattan

                                        Dashi isn't a seasoning, it's a stock. Basically provides umami, richness, roundedness, maybe a little smokiness, and some simple background taste. Depends on how much dried fish is used.

                                        Takes on more of a broth quality when mixed with fish, seafood, and animal stuff.

                                        Miso or soy sauce are then added later for base flavor. You want to try to avoid simmering these two items for very long. They aren't part of the soup until the end.

                                        1. re: Silverjay

                                          I've always wonder about when things crosses over between stock and broth.

                                          1. re: villainx

                                            Try drinking just dashi. You will get it....Actually, there is a "dashi bar" in Tokyo I checked out couple years ago--> .

                                            1. re: Silverjay

                                              No, I get that on the most basic level stock and broth are different. For example, chicken stock and chicken broth. But aside from adding a few more veggies, chicken stock becomes broth mainly through water, no?

                                              1. re: villainx

                                                Hmm. I'm not 100% sure. I pretty much know dashi and ramen and the Japan stuff and thought it was analogous to what I understood of stock and broth. Dashi isn't really about flavor so much...Anyway, hope nomad can get his/her fishy miso ramen fix solved.

                                                1. re: villainx

                                                  We're getting waaaaaaay off topic now, but the stock/broth question (even more irrelevant because we're now applying western terms to Japanese foods) is a bit confusing.

                                                  First, probably half the chefs in the world use the terms interchangeably. It's not something they're gonna slap you on the wrists over at the French Culinary Institute.

                                                  But for those who use them differently, the most common difference is meat - stock would be made from just bones and trimming, perhaps some spices and veggies, and would serve as merely a backbone for something later - i.e. it's what you'd use to then make pea soup. Dashi, thus, is basically a stock.

                                                  Broth is more a finished product - i.e. if you made chicken soup from scratch and threw the whole chicken in there. It gets flavor from the meat, more fat, as well as all that gelatin and depth from the bones.

                                                  1. re: sgordon

                                                    Well since you went off topic, can dashi be a stock if there are no bones? Never put a bone into any dashi I've made. Start with konbu and water, let it sit all afternoon if I have time, bring to a simmer, remove konbu, add katsuobushi. Turn off heat. No bones. I sometimes use those whole dried anchovies where there are tiny bones inside but it's not necessary for dashi. So is it a broth?

                                                    1. re: Bkeats

                                                      I always took "stock" to simply mean something used as a basis for a variety of uses and not necessarily composed of anything in particular that would be specified except for water. Dashi is used for making miso soup or ramen or tsuyu sauce or a variety of other applications.

                                                      1. re: Silverjay

                                                        Same here. I would not have been able to give a different definition to broth or stock like sg did. I use pretty them interchangeably.

                                3. re: Silverjay

                                  Thanks, Silverjay! I will check Yebisu out.

                                  1. re: Silverjay

                                    Forgot about Yebisu!

                                    Though opted for the veggie ramen last time we went (which wasn't terrific). So can't confirm that it's not 100% no land meat.

                                    Suzume seems to be run by some David Chang alums, so there's some fusion-y elements. But I'd assume they'd try to make it good, if not necessarily authentic/traditional.

                                  2. re: sgordon

                                    I think the opposite to "Americanized" is authentic, not traditional.

                                    Also, I am not typically looking for miso ramen. The one at Kaijin is either shio + fish broth or shoyu + fish broth. Either way works for me. I usually do not count the shear use of Dashi as fish broth.

                                    You are right about that the Yamanchan one is not the same as the ones at Kaijin, which I only bought as a tolerable substitute.

                                    Being said that, I shall still give it a shot. Thanks for the tip.