HOME > Chowhound > Beer >

Cask Ales in the US

Paprikaboy Jun 27, 2014 02:15 PM

In the last five years or so US craft beer has had a huge impact in the UK and on brewing. From the amount of US beers available , even in a big chain pubs, to the fact that most new breweries are producing US style hoppy IPA'a at 6% abv or over.
Now I like the style and it's been in general a good thing as it's awakened an interest in good beers. It has though made me have more interest in traditional British cask ales , especially when i'm "hopped out". Obviously the we only get a small selection of US beers and it is all of a similar style as it's what perceived as fashionable.Also it's mainly in bottles or kegged (for obvious reasons) So I'm wondering how available is cask ale is in the US?
Also what other US beer styles should I look for? I know the IPA's we get in the UK can't be the only style of beer produced in the US.

  1. Click to Upload a photo (10 MB limit)
Delete
  1. j
    jpc8015 RE: Paprikaboy Jun 27, 2014 02:40 PM

    I drink a lot of beer in a lot of different places. I have only seen true cask ale twice in the US.

    23 Replies
    1. re: jpc8015
      i
      Idyllwild RE: jpc8015 Jun 28, 2014 09:02 PM

      Where are you drinking? Most serious beer bars in big cities offer one or two cask beers all the time.

      1. re: Idyllwild
        Chinon00 RE: Idyllwild Jun 29, 2014 11:19 AM

        See I'm not sure about that. Hopefully we can clear this up on this string. Many brewpubs serve beer on the engine typically at room temperature and w/ no carbonation. Now are all these beers: cask conditioned, unpasteurized and unfiltered; which defines "true cask" to me. Serving a "non-living" (i.e. pasteurized) beer on the engine is not true cask as far as I'm concerned. But again I'm not sure if this is what all these brewpubs are doing when they claim to serve cask.

        1. re: Chinon00
          Jim Dorsch RE: Chinon00 Jun 29, 2014 11:47 AM

          I doubt that many brewpubs pasteurize, so you're probably OK on that count.

          I suppose it depends on the establishment, but I would think that most brewpubs would understand beer terminology and would not use the cask terminology loosely. Nevertheless, caveat emptor.

          In my area (DC-Balto) the production breweries know exactly what cask ale is, and many have some cooperage and regularly produce cask beers for accounts.

          1. re: Jim Dorsch
            t
            ThomasvanDale RE: Jim Dorsch Jun 30, 2014 02:46 AM

            I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. Cask ale is a very old, traditional and primitive way of making beer. Even in Europe, aside from the UK and Germany, where this tradition continues, there are very few places that produce it, even occasionally and then in small quantity.

            I agree with your first assumption about pasteurization, but I wonder how many breweries take the extra time to have a secondary fermentation in the cask.

            1. re: ThomasvanDale
              Jim Dorsch RE: ThomasvanDale Jun 30, 2014 03:56 AM

              I may have implied that cask ale is plentiful around here. That is not the case. But it is available.

              I believe it is fairly authentic, although you sometimes find stuff like "cask lager" in bars. US brewers can't resist messing around.

        2. re: Idyllwild
          j
          jpc8015 RE: Idyllwild Jun 30, 2014 07:21 AM

          I live in Salem but have been to a ton of bars in Portland so quality and quantity of beer is no issue. The only bar in Portland where I have seen cask ale is the Deschutes Brewery Public House. I think they always have one.

          The other one I saw was in Corvallis at a place called Block 15.

          1. re: jpc8015
            MVNYC RE: jpc8015 Jun 30, 2014 09:06 AM

            http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/or-cask-...

            Looks like there are a bunch in Portland next time you head into the city. Alex Hall also runs a cask beer festival here in NYC. Fun event.

            1. re: MVNYC
              j
              jpc8015 RE: MVNYC Jun 30, 2014 09:14 AM

              I'm sure they are out there. It just isn't something that I have made a point to go out and find.

              1. re: MVNYC
                Chinon00 RE: MVNYC Jun 30, 2014 11:04 AM

                And we're sure tho' that each are cask conditioned, unfiltered, unpasteurized, and as ThomasvanDale pointed out go thru a secondary fermentation in the cask?

                1. re: Chinon00
                  j
                  jpc8015 RE: Chinon00 Jun 30, 2014 11:15 AM

                  The two that I mentioned above did indeed.

                  1. re: jpc8015
                    t
                    ThomasvanDale RE: jpc8015 Jun 30, 2014 11:38 PM

                    How would you know that? If you compare a Real Ale with a keg or bottle version, it is not hard to tell the difference. But a Real Ale and a casked beer?

                    1. re: ThomasvanDale
                      j
                      jpc8015 RE: ThomasvanDale Jul 1, 2014 07:49 AM

                      I can only rely on the word of the two establishments I was in. I have no reason to doubt them.

                      1. re: jpc8015
                        t
                        ThomasvanDale RE: jpc8015 Jul 1, 2014 10:10 AM

                        And if you were buying a new DVD player or power drill, would you use the same standard?

                        1. re: ThomasvanDale
                          j
                          jpc8015 RE: ThomasvanDale Jul 1, 2014 10:25 AM

                          It's a fucking beer. Calm down.

                          1. re: jpc8015
                            t
                            ThomasvanDale RE: jpc8015 Jul 2, 2014 02:23 AM

                            Yes, I am perfectly calm. Why do you think I am not?

                            When I shop, I too ask questions. However, I also understand the answers may be to sell products, and not necessarily the truth.

                            I have never said there is no Real Ale in the US, I simply said that not all who claim it is are justified.

                            1. re: ThomasvanDale
                              Chinon00 RE: ThomasvanDale Jul 3, 2014 08:08 PM

                              Yeah so I spoke to a pretty knowledgable brewer friend about this and per CAMRA the beer must be conditioned in the cask that it is served in. This process he said takes 7 days. And CAMRA does not allow use of a breather to preserve the beer. The evacuated cask is exposed to oxygen; so the risk of spoilage is high and therefore the window to serve is short.

                              1. re: Chinon00
                                t
                                ThomasvanDale RE: Chinon00 Jul 3, 2014 11:54 PM

                                CAMRA does not specify how long the process takes other than "slow". You can read all the details about it here: http://www.camra.org.uk/faq

                                I believe some breweries in the UK take much longer than 7 days for secondary fermentation. Furthermore, the beer should be dispensed from the fermentation vessel (the same cask).

                                As you correctly point out, the 'life' of cask ale is relatively short: the lines need to be cleaned often, the beer has to be kept at a stable temperature and no gases should be used.

                                At Zum Uerige, a lovely Alt pub in Düsseldorf, the casks are changed every few hours, even though the beer is served in small 25cl glasses. Some tourists sit specifically in the bar room so they can watch (and take photos) as two waiters hoist a full cask onto the bar.

                                And, at the Augustiner pub in central Munich, they ring a bell when a new cask comes on line. Needless to say, that's when most of the orders for it come in.

                          2. re: ThomasvanDale
                            MVNYC RE: ThomasvanDale Jul 1, 2014 10:34 AM

                            Thomas, did you read the post below on Alex Hall's beer festivals? If he goes through all that work and tells me it is real ale i will believe him

                            1. re: MVNYC
                              j
                              jpc8015 RE: MVNYC Jul 1, 2014 03:49 PM

                              You may have just shattered the myth of real ale.

                    2. re: Chinon00
                      MVNYC RE: Chinon00 Jun 30, 2014 11:29 AM

                      Well no I am not sure what every bar listed does as I have not been to all of them. But Alex Hall is pretty fastidious regarding projects that he is involved with. He is working for Wandering Star which most definitely sells live beer.

                      http://www.gotham-imbiber.com/festiva...

                      There are definitely bars with fake cask engines but the more serious beer bars will have one or two on offer whether its on the engine or gravity.

                      1. re: Chinon00
                        i
                        Idyllwild RE: Chinon00 Jun 30, 2014 05:05 PM

                        How would the beer become carbonated if it were filtered or pasteurized? Without forced carbonation, the beer depends on live yeast for the bubbles.

                  2. re: Idyllwild
                    n
                    niquejim RE: Idyllwild Jun 30, 2014 06:40 PM

                    And to us not in big cities...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

                    1. re: niquejim
                      chefj RE: niquejim Jul 1, 2014 05:35 PM

                      Move??????????????????

                2. t
                  TombstoneShadow RE: Paprikaboy Jun 27, 2014 10:41 PM

                  Pap I can only speak to how common "hand pumps" are at the microbrew bars I frequent: answer is "not very common". You might find 1 or 2 beers on hand pump at even a good microbrew bar.

                  Of course a hand pump is just one aspect of cask ale at a bar...

                  1. Chinon00 RE: Paprikaboy Jun 27, 2014 11:00 PM

                    True cask beer in the US I've only read about. I've never actually been to a bar that serves it anywhere. Like others have stated serving beers on the engine (i.e. no carbonation, at cellar temp via hand pump) is common at brewpubs and some bars. Typically imperial Stouts, pale ales and IPAs are served on the engine.
                    Other styles that are popular and that I think we do a decent job at and that would travel well are our imperial stouts (i.e. Victory Storm King, Founders Breakfast Stout) and saison (e.g. Ommegang Hennepin).
                    Thanks

                    1. d
                      daymare RE: Paprikaboy Jun 27, 2014 11:26 PM

                      Quite a few breweries have cask ale in the bay area in California. Pretty similar to the few I had in UK. I always get cask if i can find it. Now what I've never found is cask lager :(. Even in munich , the same beer in cask is just so much better.

                      One US style that I actually prefer over the German variety is hefeweisen. Widmer is probably most famous for that, but most local breweries should have it too.

                      1. JessKidden RE: Paprikaboy Jun 28, 2014 06:37 AM

                        Alex Hall's website http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/cask-bee... lists over 700 US bars and brewpubs that serve cask ale (some only occassionally).

                        1. The Professor RE: Paprikaboy Jun 30, 2014 12:55 PM

                          I'm surprised I don't see cask ales more available, but then again, on;y hard-core beer afficianados would really appreciate it...the average person would probably say it tastes "flat".

                          As one who _never_ liked frozen and overly carbonated beer, I got hopelessly hooked on cask ales on a trip to the UK back in the mid 70s (when it was just making a comeback even over there), and really missed it when I got back home.

                          It was a nice surprise when my 'local' in NJ (New Brunswick's OLD BAY RESTAURANT) started featuring cask ales in the early 1990s which were flown over especially for them from various UK brewers; one time, Sir Anthony Fuller even accompanied a small supply of cask conditioned Fuller's ESB. It was quite a revelation tasting it side by side with the kegged Fullers that the OB carried on a regular basis. The cask conditioned version was much hoppier and less sweet than the keg and bottled versions.
                          Unfortunately, when bar manager Chris Dimitri left the OLD BAY, the hand pumps were dismantled and haven't made an appearance in quite some time. :-(

                          1. r
                            RB Hound RE: Paprikaboy Jul 3, 2014 08:31 PM

                            Granted San Diego is more brewery centric than most places, but I can count on all my fingers and toes the brewery tasting rooms and bars that will put up casks, and many of them continuously (some only do it on particular evenings). During the last craft beer "revolution" in the early to mid 90s, pretty much every brewpub I encountered in the midwest had a cask offering.

                            Yes, in the grand US tradition, they like to do things on cask that are a bit unconventional (e.g. I've had wee heavy and barleywine on cask at Alesmith), but you often see ESB, pale ale, and brown ale on cask. And of course varying strengths of IPA.

                            To answer your question, Paprikaboy, it's pretty easy to find cask ale in beer centric pubs and brewery tasting rooms. But you won't find it in a bottle, because bottled ale cannot be cask ale. Different animals.

                            As far as people not finding it - they aren't looking in the right places. You won't find it in your corner bar or a dance club.

                            Show Hidden Posts