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Chinese dog-eating festival

EM23 Jun 24, 2014 11:35 AM

This just breaks my heart

“They claim that eating dog meat on the summer solstice confers health benefits that last through the winter.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014...

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  1. j
    jpc8015 RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 11:59 AM

    Why is eating dog any more cruel than eating chickens, pigs, or cows?

    23 Replies
    1. re: jpc8015
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      genoO RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 12:05 PM

      I agree. Dogs barking at night, all night long. The BBQ is the place to put them. I have never had a chicken, pig or cow tip over my garbage and spread it all over the street.
      They must be good for something so let's try cooking them.

      1. re: jpc8015
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        GH1618 RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 12:06 PM

        It's a matter of loyalty (or rather lack of, in this case). Dogs have been partners of manking throughout human history. The only contribution chickens have made is as food.

        1. re: GH1618
          j
          jpc8015 RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 12:14 PM

          Pigs are as loyal, if not more so, than dogs. And we turn pigs into delicious bacon, ham, and sausage...among other things.

          1. re: jpc8015
            g
            GH1618 RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 12:32 PM

            Yes, but pigs have never been partners as dogs have been. I suspect the wild pig took some effort to domesticate. And adult pigs can be dangerous. You wouldn't leave your small children with fully-grown pigs. Dogs can be dangerous too, of course, but such dogs are rogues, not the norm.

            1. re: GH1618
              j
              jpc8015 RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 12:35 PM

              And you would leave your small child with dogs?

              1. re: jpc8015
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                GH1618 RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 12:52 PM

                I would with one that was part of the family. Not with strange dogs. And I don't mean "leave" as with a baby sitter.

                My child grew up in a home with a dog. We never worried about it except for the initial getting-acquainted period.

                1. re: GH1618
                  j
                  jpc8015 RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 01:01 PM

                  "Dog...we're going out. You are in charge of the baby."

                  1. re: jpc8015
                    EatFoodGetMoney RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 01:02 PM

                    hahahaha

                  2. re: GH1618
                    s
                    sandylc RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 02:51 PM

                    GH1618, it gives me great pleasure to agree with you on something!

                    When our child was young, our dog was terribly disapproving of us going outside to do yardwork while the baby was napping. He could not be convinced to follow us out that door - he clearly thought we were being negligent. He had no idea what a baby monitor was.

                    Typically he would have been leading the way to go outside, but under these circumstances, we could feel his glare out the window while he took up our slack.

                    1. re: sandylc
                      Chemicalkinetics RE: sandylc Jun 24, 2014 02:56 PM

                      Dogs are very sweet.

                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                        EatFoodGetMoney RE: Chemicalkinetics Jun 24, 2014 03:03 PM

                        I hear horse is sweet too, I want to try that a lot more than dog though.

                  3. re: jpc8015
                    tcamp RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 02:02 PM

                    Carl? Absolutely!

                    http://www.amazon.com/Good-Dog-Carl-C...

                  4. re: GH1618
                    EM23 RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 04:33 PM

                    < And adult pigs can be dangerous.>
                    A fact the mafia took advantage of last year.

                2. re: GH1618
                  Chemicalkinetics RE: GH1618 Jun 24, 2014 12:46 PM

                  < Dogs have been partners of manking throughout human history.>

                  True, but human only stopped eating dogs in modern history (and only some countries). So I don't think it matters if dogs were loyal to human for tens of thousand years.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                    EricMM RE: Chemicalkinetics Jun 25, 2014 10:42 AM

                    The chihuahua was bred as a food animal by the Aztecs. Took care of itself, fed itself, and was always available for dinner.

                    1. re: EricMM
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                      princessvmg RE: EricMM Jun 25, 2014 11:33 AM

                      I understand that some culters are used to eating dogs, cats, bugs and horses like its just eaI understand that some cultures are used to eating dogs, cats, bugs and horses like its just eating chickens or cows. I also understand that some cultures choose not to eat some animals, such as pigs due to their religious beliefs. I think its disgusting, wrong, foul, disturbing and whole bunch of other things. I also disagree on certain countries that have to kill them first borns if they are not boys! I could go on and on, but I won't!
                      I got a bit upset by this post because I have a Chihuahua and I would never ever consider him to be food that I would eat. Before I get criticized, I am not one of those girls who carries him in a purse or dresses him up, those people drive me fn nuts!
                      My point is, I don't have to live there, I would never want to live there, I would rather kill myself before I had to eat a dog, cat or horse! Thats all..

                      1. re: princessvmg
                        Chemicalkinetics RE: princessvmg Jun 25, 2014 11:51 AM

                        I think it is fine to know what you want to do. I am all for it. I am just saying that people need to take on a step back and ask if dog-eaters are really more barbaric. A lot of Hindu probably also think we are very barbaric to eat the holy cow/cattle.

                        People should not be too self-righteous.

                        1. re: princessvmg
                          EatFoodGetMoney RE: princessvmg Jun 25, 2014 12:07 PM

                          Your chihuahua would probably be alright to eat if you boned it out, rolled it into a roulade with transgutaminase, cooked it sous vide, then deep fried it before slicing and serving. Probably only get like a serving or 2 though.

                          1. re: EatFoodGetMoney
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                            princessvmg RE: EatFoodGetMoney Jun 25, 2014 12:12 PM

                            Good to know, thanks! But I won't be doing that .. I might do that to my boyfriend! Lol!

                        2. re: EricMM
                          tcamp RE: EricMM Jun 25, 2014 12:00 PM

                          Mine are always available for dinner. Whatcha cooking for me, mom?

                           
                    2. re: jpc8015
                      EM23 RE: jpc8015 Jun 24, 2014 04:35 PM

                      I posted the story because I thought it deserved as much exposure as possible. Another such festival was banned for good a few years ago after widespread social media outrage. I have no interest in discussing the merits of eating a companion animal vs. animals bred for food. This thread has gone downhill fast so I’m outta here.

                      1. re: EM23
                        g
                        genoO RE: EM23 Jun 25, 2014 11:14 AM

                        Chowhound is a food forum, if it can be eaten it will be eaten.

                        1. re: genoO
                          greygarious RE: genoO Jun 26, 2014 08:00 PM

                          I take it then, that you have no objection to human cannibalism?

                    3. EatFoodGetMoney RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 12:18 PM

                      Anyone here had dog?
                      I'd definitely be down to try it. Can't really imagine it being that good, probably best in a stew or something. With all the breeds of dogs out there though I bet some have got to taste pretty good though.

                      8 Replies
                      1. re: EatFoodGetMoney
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                        pine time RE: EatFoodGetMoney Jun 24, 2014 12:46 PM

                        I'd never eat dog in a million years, but rationally, I don't see the difference between eating dog and any other meat. Hindus think we're weird for eating cow, so cultural/religious differences aren't rational.

                        Eating skin, however, still makes me a little queasy. I know it makes no objective sense, but still, it's there.

                        1. re: pine time
                          EatFoodGetMoney RE: pine time Jun 24, 2014 12:54 PM

                          I'm glad I started loving skin before I really thought about it. I'm that way with certain cuts of offal though

                        2. re: EatFoodGetMoney
                          g
                          genoO RE: EatFoodGetMoney Jun 24, 2014 12:54 PM

                          low and slow would be the best bet. I think some of the fatter, lap type dogs might make some good belly or bacon that can be smoked smoked.

                          1. re: genoO
                            EatFoodGetMoney RE: genoO Jun 24, 2014 01:01 PM

                            Ya, I was thinking the belly might be good.

                          2. re: EatFoodGetMoney
                            Kris in Beijing RE: EatFoodGetMoney Jun 25, 2014 02:11 AM

                            Yes.
                            Boshintang (보신탕; 補身湯), a Korean soup that features dog meat as the main protein.

                            1. re: EatFoodGetMoney
                              k
                              kpaxonite RE: EatFoodGetMoney Jun 25, 2014 03:10 AM

                              I had some in North Korea in January. It does not taste like beef. They said it was a special breed for eating.

                              1. re: kpaxonite
                                Kris in Beijing RE: kpaxonite Jun 25, 2014 04:19 AM

                                I had "special event stew" for my 40th birthday in China at a Korean restaurant.
                                They said the quality was lower than what would have been available in Seoul, where I lived for a year but did not get to try 보신탕.
                                .
                                In my experiences, there would never be any " sneaking it in" because it's not considred a cheap meat. You're only going to get it if you specifically request it.

                                1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                  k
                                  kpaxonite RE: Kris in Beijing Jun 25, 2014 10:57 AM

                                  I agree I had to pay extra to eat it.

                            2. alliegator RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 12:22 PM

                              My heart breaks, because I'm a dog lover. But my brain knows that not every culture operates the way us (most of us) westerners do, so it's kind of not my job to criticize.
                              Definitely a festival I personally could only take part in with a loaded gun pressed against my head, though.

                              2 Replies
                              1. re: alliegator
                                EM23 RE: alliegator Jun 24, 2014 04:29 PM

                                That was not why I posted the article link, Allie. I realize people eat different animals in other cultures, but this was a festival involving thousands of dogs, many stolen from pet owners.

                                1. re: EM23
                                  alliegator RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 04:47 PM

                                  Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you intended to criticize. I think it's only a good thing to draw attention to the fact that this is going on. Especially with the theft involved!

                              2. Pata_Negra RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 12:24 PM

                                Apparently dog meat is a winter/colder months speciality in China.

                                I saw both freshly butchered whole dogs and hindquarters at markets in China, display of bisected hindquarters in restaurant window. Also the dried whole dogs with head intact. Food stalls have whole small ones ready to be cooked to your liking.

                                We've talked about eating dogs here before: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/801199

                                7 Replies
                                1. re: Pata_Negra
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                                  Pookipichu RE: Pata_Negra Jun 24, 2014 12:37 PM

                                  My family is from China and I've never seen dog on the menu anywhere that I've been or at any market. China's a very large country but it's certainly not common in the Shanghai area.

                                  I'm sure there are people in regional areas of the US that eat things that are uncommon as well.

                                  On a separate note, pigs are VERY intelligent, recognize people, can smile, can be playful, loyal, affectionate, they're just not as cute to most people as dogs, otherwise they'd be pets too.

                                  1. re: Pookipichu
                                    Pata_Negra RE: Pookipichu Jun 24, 2014 01:20 PM

                                    Didn't see butchered dogs in Shanghai but did in Guiyang, Kali, Yangshuo, Longshen.

                                    In Vietnam I saw many cat and dog restaurants on one street alone. Never seen anything like it before and ever since.

                                    This is what a dried whole dog looks like, complete with head and stamp of approval: http://tinyurl.com/q9t9dgc

                                    1. re: Pata_Negra
                                      EatFoodGetMoney RE: Pata_Negra Jun 24, 2014 01:25 PM

                                      Holy shit that looks absurd haha.

                                    2. re: Pookipichu
                                      r
                                      ratgirlagogo RE: Pookipichu Jun 26, 2014 06:51 PM

                                      "they're just not as cute to most people as dogs, otherwise they'd be pets too."
                                      I think people actually do find them very appealing (for example in the great movie Babe) but they get too big when full grown for most people to be able to keep them. I believe the biggest domestic dog is the English mastiff, which runs over 500 pounds as an adult. Domestic pigs can easily get to half a ton or more as adults. People do keep potbellied pigs which only get to about 150 pounds or so.

                                      1. re: ratgirlagogo
                                        greygarious RE: ratgirlagogo Jun 26, 2014 07:55 PM

                                        The record for a Mastiff is 343# and that is unusual. Most large breed dogs do not weigh more than 200#.

                                        1. re: greygarious
                                          r
                                          ratgirlagogo RE: greygarious Jun 27, 2014 03:25 PM

                                          Thank you, I stand corrected. Although of course that just underlines my point. I'd keep a pet pig myself if they didn't get so enormous. Right next to my pet Indian elephant (domesticated, you know:)

                                    3. re: Pata_Negra
                                      porker RE: Pata_Negra Jun 24, 2014 02:59 PM

                                      "We've talked about eating dogs here before"
                                      I'd describe it more as "beat the subject to death and beyond".
                                      {;-/)

                                    4. Chemicalkinetics RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 12:44 PM

                                      I like to put this in a large perspective, dog-eating is increasing difficult in China now. Last year, the dog eating festival was banned.

                                      http://www.vegfriend.com/forum/topics...

                                      As your article has stated: "Dog meat sales were down by a third on last year"

                                      This year there are group trying to shut down this festival again. Not sure if they will success this year.

                                      Anyway, my point is that you have people who are pro-dog eating and you have anti-dog eating.

                                      2 Replies
                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                        EM23 RE: Chemicalkinetics Jun 24, 2014 04:31 PM

                                        <As your article has stated: "Dog meat sales were down by a third on last year">
                                        This is why I posted the article.

                                        1. re: EM23
                                          g
                                          genoO RE: EM23 Jun 25, 2014 11:15 AM

                                          And thanks to your mentioning this problem, hopefully sales will rebound next year.

                                      2. pinehurst RE: EM23 Jun 24, 2014 01:08 PM

                                        Though pigs are intelligent and loyal, I have never experienced a chicken, pig, or cow who actively sought to save my life at the risk of its own. I had a dog who did, one who was not formally trained to do so. I assume she did so out of loyalty and love.

                                        For that reason, and for many other reasons, I would no more eat dog flesh than I would consume human flesh.

                                        8 Replies
                                        1. re: pinehurst
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                                          Pookipichu RE: pinehurst Jun 24, 2014 01:54 PM

                                          I'm not disparaging dogs but for perspective, it's hard for a pig to save your life if it's penned up as future bacon or being eaten while dogs get opportunities to show affection, charm and do things that make us go awwwww.

                                          Pigs have a pack mentality the same way dogs do, if you're in their pack I'm sure a pet pig would defend you or try to protect you from danger.

                                          1. re: pinehurst
                                            EatFoodGetMoney RE: pinehurst Jun 24, 2014 02:02 PM

                                            I think your logic is pretty flawed.

                                            A pig has (probably) never had the chance to save you.
                                            You (probably) haven't been around pigs as often as dogs.
                                            If a dog killed a person you knew would you be inclined to eat a dog?
                                            If a pig saved you would you be inclined to stop eating all pork?
                                            Cows and chickens are in a completely different category.

                                            1. re: pinehurst
                                              porker RE: pinehurst Jun 24, 2014 03:04 PM

                                              Reminds me of the old joke:
                                              Salesman pulls up to a farmhouse and sees a 3 legged pig limping around. He asks the farmer what happened to the pig.
                                              Farmer says one time a fire broke out in the house, pig woke everyone up and saved the family.
                                              "So thats how he lost the leg? In the fire?"
                                              "Naw, he was fine, but I'll tell you, another time I was huntin and was surprised by a really big bear and my gun jammed. That there pig confronted the bear and chased him off, saving my life."
                                              "So thats how he lost his leg? Fighting with the bear?"
                                              "No, not the bear."
                                              "So how then? How'd he lose the leg?"
                                              "Well, I tell you, a pig that special, you don't eat all at once."

                                              1. re: pinehurst
                                                pinehurst RE: pinehurst Jun 25, 2014 05:53 AM

                                                Pookipichu and EatFoodGetMoney
                                                I believe that you have encountered noble pigs in your experience. I have not, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
                                                My uncle raised pigs, fowl, and goats (Saanan? sp? dairy goats, not for meat) and though the latter were very smart and charming, the former species were less so....rather stubborn and peevish....at least on the farm I saw. I do know potbellied pigs were quite the rage as pets in the 90's...didn't George Clooney have one? But in my (limited) farm experience, the personality kings/queens were those goats.

                                                And btw, EatFood, you asked
                                                "If a dog killed a person you knew would you be inclined to eat a dog?" No. My best friend was killed by a drunk driver when I was 19. I was not inclined to consume human flesh after that.

                                                1. re: pinehurst
                                                  RealMenJulienne RE: pinehurst Jun 26, 2014 10:01 AM

                                                  Dogs do those things because we have conditioned them to do so over tens of thousands of years of selective breeding and training, not out of any sense of altruism or "soul". Pigs do not do those things because we've bred them to produce meat, not to save lives.

                                                  An octopus is smarter than any dog (and probably some humans) but is it probably the ugliest creature in the sea, therefore no one cares how many of them we butcher.

                                                  1. re: RealMenJulienne
                                                    j
                                                    jpc8015 RE: RealMenJulienne Jun 26, 2014 10:10 AM

                                                    "...therefore no one cares how many of them we butcher."

                                                    Unless of course you are in Seattle.

                                                    http://seattletimes.com/html/localnew...

                                                    1. re: RealMenJulienne
                                                      Chemicalkinetics RE: RealMenJulienne Jun 26, 2014 07:22 PM

                                                      <Dogs do those things because we have conditioned them to do so over tens of thousands of years of selective breeding and training, not out of any sense of altruism or "soul">

                                                      Well, these things are not mutually exclusive. You can selectively train, teach and educate a person (or a dog) to be selfless and generous.

                                                      A person is generous because of his/her acts. We don't say: "Well, his parents and grandparents taught him well. So this does not count."

                                                    2. re: pinehurst
                                                      a
                                                      AngelSanctuary RE: pinehurst Jun 27, 2014 02:50 PM

                                                      Well I'm sure they would if they could, when's the last time you were even near a pig, chicken, or cow?

                                                      Also when's the last time you heard of pigs viciously biting small children?

                                                    3. Kris in Beijing RE: EM23 Jun 25, 2014 02:15 AM

                                                      That's a tremendously culturally biased article.
                                                      The Guardian should have quoted a few more local people, other than relying upon Ms Carrot from HK.

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                        Chemicalkinetics RE: Kris in Beijing Jun 25, 2014 05:32 AM

                                                        The article did quote a few more people, like Zhou Jian and Yang Mi. I do think the article is biased, but not sure if it is culturally biased. I do think the article is written in a way that is not very balanced.

                                                        How do you know Carrot is a she? It could be a he, right? ;)

                                                      2. p
                                                        pedalfaster RE: EM23 Jun 25, 2014 10:50 AM

                                                        "It's an industry characterised by criminality, cruelty and poor hygiene,"

                                                        Kind of like the meat industry in the USA.

                                                        1. girloftheworld RE: EM23 Jul 16, 2014 08:06 PM

                                                          Wow- I thought they started banning this in 2011 and continued banning it
                                                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09...

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