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Di Fara Pizza HORRIBLE

I've gone to Di Fara's several times. The first couple of times the pizza was good. It was cool in a way that the old guy takes his time and cuts the basil for the finishing touch.
The other day I was there, I got a slice of square with sausage and onion , it was inedible. ( bad photo attached). Sorry about the photo.
It was burnt, not the burnt like John's always has on the bottom of a pizza. Hard to chew black , totally burnt. Took two bites and threw it away. Then I went to my second slice , regular Napoli pizza, also with sausage and onions. Undercooked. I mean way way undercooked.( same photo)
So, I didn't give up and they had a slice that I didn't have to wait for. Plain Napoli slice, the soggiest, oiliest pizza ever. Pretty much inedible. I doubt if I will ever go back there. It was the worst pizza I ever had.

 
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  1. Bummer. How much did it cost?

    2 Replies
    1. re: knucklesandwich

      $5 a slice, plus a buck for each topping...

      http://www.difara.com/menu

      1. re: carolinadawg

        Well the free peppers on the counter were good,

    2. That crust is really burnt, wow. I love the crust, I would have been bummed out too.

      1. Ive never ordered a slice at DiFara - we have always gone for the whole pies. is this one of these deals where the pizza was reheated? Honestly, with that result I would have rejected it.

        52 Replies
        1. re: jen kalb

          They don't reheat any pizza at DiFara, if you order a slice, your name is on a list, just like the whole pies. You wait until a whole pie comes out and you get your slice. If you want a slice with sausage on it, they heat the sausage on foil, then put it on the pie when it is still cooking , they cut that slice out of the pie when it is almost done. They have no pies laying around , for slices.

          1. re: foodwhisperer

            nope...they absolutely heat the slices. I've been going there for at least 20 years. they put the slice on a piece of foil but do reheat slices all the time.

            1. re: redgirl

              I've never seen them reheat any. That's why they take your name and you have to wait for a pie to get your slice. But I haven't been going there for 20 years, so you would have a better knowledge of this.

              1. re: redgirl

                I haven't been since 2007 or so... but, in the winter especially, when on a very off chance that it wasn't Very busy or I got there early enough, a partial pie would sit a few minutes and cool only to be reheated on a piece of foil and served. I do not know if that is still happening.

            2. re: jen kalb

              It can happen with the whole pies too.

              http://static.flickr.com/185/48335648...

              http://static.flickr.com/218/50820517...

              1. re: Bob Martinez

                I've moved on to Totonnos when I'm in Brooklyn now.

                1. re: coll

                  Totonnos is nowhere near as good.

                  1. re: Peter Cuce

                    It's consistant, as opposed to hit or miss. And you don't have to wait an hour for your pie!

                  2. re: coll

                    We used to go to Trio on Avenue U. It has been around nearly 50 years. They used to be phenomenal. I think the ownership has changed, so I can't vouch for the current product. Their facade is used to represent "Nemo's Pizza" in "Everybody Loves Raymond."

                    1. re: foodiemom10583

                      Ave U used to be the place to go for pizza! I wonder if that is the place the Zinno family used to run. We only go into Brooklyn now for Coney Island so Totonno's works well for us.

                      1. re: coll

                        I wish I knew the last name of the family that owned it. I swear, we ate there hundreds of times over the years.

                        We'll be going to Coney Island for the Cyclone's "Seinfeld" night (batting practice in puffy shirts!), so Totonno's in on the short list for a pre-game dinner.

                        1. re: foodiemom10583

                          I'll have to look that up! We usually park and hit Totonno first, then the Cyclone and Rubys for awhile, maybe the Wonder Wheel and always Nathan's just before we leave. Of course lots of walking up and down the boardwalk; the new carousel area was a great idea on someone's part. Eventually I'm going to wander down to the Russian area too.

                          1. re: coll

                            Sounds wonderfully exhausting! Please report back if you make it down to the Little Odessa area: There are some wonderful food finds there.

                            1. re: foodiemom10583

                              There was one place mentioned here that sounded like a Fellini movie, it's on my list for next time!

                        2. re: coll

                          If you think of the place, let me know. I have Zinno's in my family tree from the Sheepshead Bay/Bensonhurst area, curious if this was anyone in my family...

                          1. re: CMB_NYC84

                            I only know them because they sold the place and retired, but got bored and opened a new place in Patchogue nearer to where they live. Named after themselves. They grew up in Sardinia (if that is the touristy island off Sicily?) and were real gentlemen. Two brothers, one was Joe but I forget the other now.

                            Looked it in case you want to get in touch but I spelled it wrong, it's Zino. They made the BEST eggplant parm, the only I would eat that wasn't my own. http://patchogue.patch.com/listings/z...

                        3. re: foodiemom10583

                          Grew up on Trio pizza. They used to be the best!

                          1. re: ellenost

                            Right? Every Saturday, we'd go to the movies on E. 16th, then stop at Trio on the way back home. I had a friend that liked Frank's, but the crust was too thick and the sauce-to-cheese ratio was way off. The old Trio never let me down.

                            1. re: foodiemom10583

                              Trio was still very good up until 2 or 3 years ago. I think the original owner's daughter (Joanne) remembered my parents, so when my Mom would order either a pie or an entree (baked ziti with chicken parmigiano), it was always perfect! Unfortunately the last few times, both the pizza and the entree were subpar. That's when we figured there must have been a change in ownership. What a shame!

                              BTW, so glad you remember the old Avenue U movie theater.

                              1. re: ellenost

                                It is definitely a shame. That is still my benchmark for great pizza. We spent our first few years in Westchester trying to find comparable pies. Thank goodness my teen son was able to try Trio before the changeover.

                                Omg, that theater was formative in developing my eclectic taste in film by showing cheesy classics like "Soylent Green," "The Legend of Hell House," and all of the "Planet of the Apes" films alongside great double bills like "Sleeper" and "Bananas," oh man.

                                Thanks for the trip down Memory Lane!

                      2. re: Bob Martinez

                        Never had DiFara's. Had always heard raves but never made it before I moved to SF.

                        Serious question... what happens if you try to send that pizza back? I'm a huge crust person and if half the crust were charred black, I'd return it. That being said, would he go all crazy on you and throw you out of the shop or would he actually remake it?

                        1. re: FattyDumplin

                          Dom seems like a nice guy, I've never seen anyone refuse or send back a pizza but my gut is that he would remake a pizza on request.

                          I've never gotten such charred pizza as the one foodwhisperer received but I have noticed the char becoming more pronounced over the years. coinciding with his general appearance being less sprightly, more tired/exhausted. It definitely doesn't seem like an intentional result, as his pizzas were never so charred before.

                          1. re: Pookipichu

                            It was too charred to eat, hard to bite and chew. The other slice was way undercooked, and the 3rd soggy and oily. That is all in one visit. Quite inconsistent. It's not my first time there. I don't mind spending $5 , even though it's high for pizza. Considering I spend a lot more on dinner or even most lunches. But what bothers me is not that the charred one was burnt. Even the experts screw up once in a while, but it should have been tossed, not served. That is what bothers me. I was afraid I'd be beaten up if I returned it ( or growled at).

                            1. re: foodwhisperer

                              Aww, well you seem like a really nice person so I'm sure you wouldn't have been growled at. Your pizza looks awful, the worst I've seen from Dom, it's a real shame. He might be getting more inconsistent.

                              1. re: Pookipichu

                                Thanks Pookipichu, I am nice most of the time :).
                                For now I'll stick to Motorino in Manhattan.
                                NewPark in Queens does the trick for me, although the ingredients are nowhere as high quality as Di Fara's ( cheese and sauce and fresh basil)

                                1. re: foodwhisperer

                                  If you're in Queens, I like Nick's Pizza, the calzones especially.

                                  1. re: foodwhisperer

                                    Love New Park for decades

                                2. re: foodwhisperer

                                  I've been trying really hard to stay out of this but there seems to be a feeling that your burnt slice was a one in a million thing. No. There have been reports of burnt DiFara slices for years and the frequency is increasing.

                                  Slice 2007 - http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...

                                  Slice 2009 - http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...

                                  Idreamofpizza 2009 - http://idreamofpizza.com/2009/12/cust...

                                  The Daily Meal - http://www.thedailymeal.com/difara-sl...

                                  There have been previous reports on CH as well.

                                  1. re: Bob Martinez

                                    I agree with Jen Kalb on this and Bob Martinez is correct (disclosure: Bob & I are friends...not that I wouldn't give him a negative review here anyway :-). I'm a great fan of Di Fara's & have gone there for longer than most posters here have been alive (over 45 years). However, if the pizza is burnt or otherwise not up to measure, he should notice and not serve it...or give it away to whomever might want it anyway. But Dom is far from a saint and he's always had his quirks. Burnt pies, oily pies, small pies (I saw him serve 1/2 size slices to some people for full price that made me blush... he had failed to stretch the dough enough & the resulting pie was small)... he should be more consumer friendly. But he's not. He is who he is and it's a 2 way transaction. I've seen a customer eat some of a slice, pronounce it bad & get her $ back (begrudgingly) from him. It's usually one of the best pizzas in a town full of very good pizza (regardless of what Katie Parla thought), but the man's just that and cults never impressed me as being paradigms of objectivity. Let the posters say what they think & I'll determine who to listen to when I'm hungry.

                                    1. re: Steve R

                                      What I was trying to say in my simultaneous post, but you were much more eloquent.

                                      1. re: FattyDumplin

                                        Fattydumplin, have you been back to Koi Palace recently? I'd be curious to hear your opinions on it and comparison to NY the next time you are back here.

                                        1. re: Pookipichu

                                          I have. And continue to love it. I'm especially hooked on their expresso ribs. Sweet, savory and full of coffee aroma. I never imagined I would like it, but it truly is one of my favorite, unhealthy foods. And last time I was there, I finally got the whole lobster dumplings. It was pricey, but again, delicious as the dumplings have the expected thin, non-gummy wrappers and are full of lobster. They also fry up the joints / claws in salt & pepper style. Aside from their regular dim sum items, which I love, I also think they have the best rendition of sao yung (the chinese egg doughnuts) as they are fresh, crisp and not as grease laden as at Cooking Papa which is most famous for them.

                                          Honestly, I have a hard time comparing to NYC. Prior to leaving in 2011, the only comparable place was China Brasserie and that was so expensive in comparison and the menu was far less diverse. Other places I hit, like dim sum go go, chatham square, oriental garden (?) are obviously much cheaper, but also mediocre in comparison. Until I got to SF and started hitting up KP and Yank Sing, I'd just accepted that dim sum wrappers were supposed to be thick and gummy... So, when I do go to New York now, I try to hit up places I don't typically have access to here, i.e. high-end sushi.

                                          1. re: FattyDumplin

                                            I haven't been to KP in many years, I have to go back for comparison. When you're back in the nabe, maybe we can grab dim sum :)

                                            1. re: Pookipichu

                                              sounds good! i try to limit my trips to NYC, but will let yo know.

                                            2. re: FattyDumplin

                                              Wow, i got confused for a second about this Koi Palace subthread, i had thought it was in the SF area.

                                              Is there one in NYC or the borough ????

                                              1. re: kevin

                                                Sorry my bad.... Divergent sub thread.

                                        2. re: Steve R

                                          re: KP, don't feed the troll. :) Dom isn't perfect, but that blogger was definitely trying to get 5 seconds.

                                          My last square had unpleasantly burnt parts (and I do not like black char, nor am I really crazy about pizza) but the majority of it was awesome pizza.

                                          1. re: Pookipichu

                                            Thank you fattyd (if I may call you that). And, yeah, Katie (whom I've met & has been helpful to me when I've gone to Rome) might've been looking for notoriety here (I'm not sure)... it's enough for me to just say she was incorrect on this. It's actually fun to have noted that Elizabeth Minchilli, another Italy food blogger (by the way, both Katie & Elizabeth are on the CH Italy board pretty regularly) came to Bklyn just before Katie and wrote up DiFara on her Italy blog as great. I'll stick with Eliz. on this.

                                            1. re: Steve R

                                              fattyd, fatd, fd... anything works.

                                            2. re: Pookipichu

                                              huh? Katie's no troll. She's a recognized Rome based food writer including in major publications (think NYT) and was a contributor to the Naples and Amalfi Coast Rough Guide. She knows from pizza. Maybe she had some bad pizza, from Dom, not impossible, or does not appreciate his style of pie.Maybe she sincerely believes that the emperor has no clothes or was trying to be provocative. But troll? no

                                              http://www.katieparla.com/.

                                              1. re: jen kalb

                                                :) She misstated some facts about Dom, exaggerated, and she made generalizations based on one visit. That'd be like an established blogger going to EMP one time and stating that EMP is HORRIBLE she saw them using produce from Walmart and the waiter spilled water and EMP is the worst restaurant ever.

                                                There is theatre in her review of Difara's, she may be a fine blogger, but that doesn't mean she wasn't trying to get her 5 seconds.

                                                1. re: Pookipichu

                                                  She may have exaggerated a bit and the headline was intemperate, but the bottom line was she did not like either the pie or what she saw of his production process. Dom has his own place in the pizza pantheon but he does produce a heavy, greasy product, at the opposite end of the spectrum from the austere pies - with greater emphasis on the crust and a lighter hand in the application of toppings- produced by other modern pizza specialists

                                                  1. re: jen kalb

                                                    She was also not incorrect with just about any of her facts either. I think her conclusion that the pizza was terrible was based more on the methodology, the equipment and the individual ingredients used than the resulting taste of the product and that's where she and I part ways. If it's fair that the folks who love DiFara have always touted the imported cheeses, the great olive oil and the artisanal nature of his one man show, it is equally fair for someone to fact check and dispel some of the myths and exaggerations. I still stand by the pizza tasting great and that it's one of the best in NYC, but Katie's interest in sourcing the best ingredients is understandable, even if not to my way of thinking.

                                                    1. re: jen kalb

                                                      Perla was all high and mighty about Dom's ingredients. I checked out her blog and she wrote a great review for this BBQ place near me in LA that serves crap ingredients and factory farm meat, nothing made in house. I emailed her about this but never heard back. She was obviously looking for attention and clicks. DiFara's may not be everyone's style but he review was a slanderous hit piece and she lacks credibility.

                                                      1. re: josh L

                                                        do you mind sharing the name of the bbq place?

                                                        1. re: AubWah

                                                          Baby Blue BBQ in Venice. Here's the link to her blog post .

                                                          http://www.parlafood.com/food-photo-o...

                                                          1. re: josh L

                                                            Wait, what? Baby Blues doesn't make their food in house?

                                            3. re: Bob Martinez

                                              And even an avid fan Jeff has mentioned it as being burnt more than a few times.

                                              Btw, who's Katie Parla ????

                                              Food critic ?????

                                              Just curious.

                                              Thanks.

                                              1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                Thanks Bob for not staying out of it. I hate being the thought of being the 1 in a million, now at least i feel like part of the crowd. I will continue to express my honest feelings about restaurants. :)

                                                1. re: foodwhisperer

                                                  I don't see how you can possibly think you are qualified to talk about eating out when you only eat out 90 times a month.

                                                  Seriously though, your breadth of experience is pretty amazing. I envy you.

                                              2. re: foodwhisperer

                                                Toss one of Dom's masterly creations???...Could cause a serious case of dumpster-diving. Ask anyone who's waited an hour or more and they will gleefully eat the burnt pie you wouldn't.

                                            4. re: FattyDumplin

                                              I think you'd have more to fear from the in-residence fanboys than from Dom who, during the course of my three or four visits to Di Fara, struck me as a sweet guy.

                                              My last pie was the final nail in the coffin. No more Di Fara, even if I happen to be in Midwood visiting friends and I pass the shop on my way to their house.

                                        3. I refuse to stand in line for any restaurant, let alone a pizzeria which was probably good at one point in time. Besides, I grew up on Wooster Street in New Haven when the pizza was exceptional (it isn't anymore). There were no lines back then. Once the world heard about Pepe's and Sally's, the quality bombed. Now, I rely on several very good Brooklyn neighborhood pizzerias which I won't mention because I don't want the fanatics taking them over.

                                          29 Replies
                                          1. re: Sluggo1407

                                            Nice Chowhound attitude, I'm sure those pizza joints appreciate the lack of business and profit for your convenience.
                                            At DiFara you pick up your slice at the counter, so you can reject it and ask for another. Dom burns stuff, as great as his pizza can be it is inconsistent, the price one has to pay for greatness. A price, understandably not all will pay.

                                            1. re: stuartlafonda

                                              Lack of business? I doubt a lack of business would keep them going for 50+ years apiece.

                                              1. re: Sluggo1407

                                                You think they don't want more money? Have you reconsidered your position and will now enlighten us to these 50 year old, great pizza joints? I can think of Totonnos and Spumoni Gardens, each special and different then Difara (which just turned 50), but not better. What'cha got?

                                            2. re: Sluggo1407

                                              I'm with stuart! You know several Brooklyn pizzerias but you won't even mention one because of the fanatics??! Really?! You won't find any fanatics on here. Fanatics don't do their research and truly appreciate a legendary slice. You could leave a good legacy with your input on here and share the love like most of us do. When anyone asks me for great food destinations, I jump at the opportunity to share my favorite places. Very selfish, Sluggo. Too bad.

                                              1. re: Sra. Swanky

                                                No fanatics here? Really? OMG!!!! Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that I don't care what you think.

                                                1. re: Sluggo1407

                                                  so what are a few of those brooklyn pizzerias ?????

                                                  pray tell. :)

                                                  thanks.

                                                  1. re: kevin

                                                    kevin -- he won't tell us. We're "fanatics!"

                                                    1. re: Sra. Swanky

                                                      Actually, I can sympathize with sluggo. If I stumble on a true find where I think the quality of the food and price is outstanding, I am very reluctant to share it on some anonymous website. Maybe eventually it will enter the collective mass delirium of the web, but I don't know why I should make it more difficult for me to get a meal there by putting in on CH or Yelp or any other online site. Sure I will tell my friends about it but I am reluctant to share something that I find where there is no online buzz.

                                                      For example, I tried Juliana's pizza right after it first opened. There were some posts here about Patsy reopening in his old space but very limited info was on line. I would walk by Grimaldi's where there would be a line that literally passed in front of Juliana's. I was able to walk in and get a table with no wait for the first several visits. Despite my reluctance, I posted what I believe to be the first review of Juliana's on CH. I mentioned my concern in the post but figured I wasn't really keeping any secrets. Now I can't get a table there without a wait.

                                                      If you want to find unknown off the beaten path places with great food, go out and find them instead of hoping to read about it here. That's how we did it in the pre-WWW days.

                                                      Then share with the rest of us! ;)

                                                      1. re: Bkeats

                                                        Thank you, Bkeats. There's another thing: I have mentioned before on this blog about some pizza places I have liked only to be insulted and derided because somebody's taste was different than mine. I am reluctant to post my favorites anymore because of this. When it comes to pizza, EVERYBODY has their own particular likes and dislikes and there is always a war about them on this site.

                                                        1. re: Sluggo1407

                                                          Sluggo - I'll be the first to admit that I am NO authority when it comes to pizza! :) Sorry to hear that people have been so negative when you've posted favorites, that it turned you off. The pizza near me pales in comparison to anything you could get in Brooklyn! Even Brooklyn's worst would probably taste like a million bucks to me! (Sad I know!) LOL!

                                                          So disappointing to hear that Wooster St. pizzerias are a shell of their former selves. Never got to get out there, but it looks like I'm not missing out on much. Bkeats really put things into perspective. The masses can really ruin quality. Sorry for my earlier comments, Sluggo!

                                                          1. re: Sluggo1407

                                                            Sluggo, I get what you're sayin'. It's just that you started it. And now we all wanna know what pizza joints you like in Brooklyn. I'm interested in that I haven't found any myself. I haven't been to DiFara's in many years and L&B Spumoni is dessert pizza with the amount of sugar in that red sauce of theirs.

                                                            That's all I got in Brooklyn. The regular joints are OK, for sure, but not Chow worthy, that I have found. Better than outside of the NYC area, yeah, maybe.

                                                            I can't locate a post about this same subject made here in reply to a post by me and that person disagreed with me only to come back and agree that the only pizza in Brooklyn is now found in "cafe's". Whatever.

                                                            BUT, just as you say about some posters dissing your opinion,
                                                            THIS post(link below), in reply to a pizza joint misses my entire point and it's reply is off. WAY off. It does Not have merit, IMO, becasue it doesn't follow the lead.
                                                            But, as you say, EVERYONE has an opinion.

                                                            Take a read:
                                                            http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/2558...

                                                            1. re: Gastronomos

                                                              Ha, that's my post that you linked to. Happy to continue the conversation there but since you're calling me out here...

                                                              I posted on my visit to your recommendation. I thought it was fine, not great. Don't see why it warrants more than one visit to "get it". I like other pizza places more in that immediate area. Unless you're just saying consistency is an issue at your favorite place, what am I missing? Have you tried my favorites? Happy to hear more from you.

                                                              1. re: churros

                                                                I've posted a couple of times on that place. Each time I recommend a second visit. You claimed one visit. Your entitled to your opinion based on one visit to any place.
                                                                It wasn't "personal". I just posted a link showing Sluggo the merit to the post Sluggo made. And a rebuttal for sharing.

                                                                I didn't "get" Di Fara my first visit some more than a dozen or so years ago. I became a regular soon after my second visit.
                                                                I do like the other places you mentioned.
                                                                Have you been to your choice places more than once??
                                                                I know that Gino's in Elmont makes everything better. And a follow up visit would prove that. Unless you're set to dismiss the place right off the bat just because of a discussion here...
                                                                And that is where Sluggo got it right, despite that I'd still love to know where to get pizza in Brooklyn...

                                                                1. re: Gastronomos

                                                                  I've been to my choice places many many times over the past decades. I'm always on the lookout for more good food so visited Gino's based on your recommendation. Was not overly impressed. Not a knock on you, but I prefer other places. You say Gino's is great. I say other places are great.

                                                                  What am I missing? Why should I visit Gino's again? It's not as if I've never had NY style pizza before. Do you visit all places twice before you post on this board?

                                                                  Sorry if you viewed my post as a diss. Just providing feedback based on my tastes. My post made it very clear it was based on one visit. People reading along can take that however they wish.

                                                                  1. re: churros

                                                                    Ageed. I'll repeat what jim leff said about Di Fara 15 or so years ago. " try it more than once. One visit will not leave you impressed." (Paraphrased)

                                                                    It's not personal. I like the joints you mentioned. They got good pizza. It's just that Gino's of Elmont is a league above. Just as you've been trying out the pizza in your favorite joints for years, Gino's of Elmont is similar as it is necessary to try it more than once to get to know the pizza (and All the food) there.
                                                                    You may or may not like it
                                                                    Just as many do not like DiFara.
                                                                    Besides, there's a lack of sharing info on that board, save for the Asian love affair many have.
                                                                    I do my share, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

                                                          2. re: Bkeats

                                                            That's a good way to put it, Bkeats. Truth is, I put a lot of faith in the favorite places I've found on here. It's hard to go out & find places when you're in an area you don't know well. Then again, I don't have trouble asking people to help guide me in the right direction. That's the fun of traveling too.

                                                            Thank you for your insight. :)

                                                            1. re: Bkeats

                                                              I am I disappointed. Remember the phrase "........ and in the end, the love you get is equal to the love you give...'?
                                                              Deserving restaurants stay in business supporting individuals, their families and their employees. The community is enriched. We all eat better. All of this, in part from simply sharing information about where we can find delicious food. As long as I have been here, from 2001 to now, one of the guiding principals has been to share the information. It may result in my having to wait longer for a table or even be shut out at times but really, are we that selfish? Sure, sometimes the place changes. Maybe a greedy owner cuts corners or an inexperienced owner is unable to cope with all the new business, but isn't that worth the price of keeping deserving places in business, and we eat better?

                                                              1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                Haha, the love you take is equal to the love you make, although same difference. I'm just a child of the '60s.

                                                                1. re: coll

                                                                  Yes, you are correct about the actual song lyrics. I took the liberty of quoting the John Lennon misquote of the line. Either way though, great words to live by.

                                                                  1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                    Sorry I didn't mean to correct you, I just got an "ear worm" as I think they say now.

                                                                    1. re: coll

                                                                      I took no offense, no apology needed. Thanks for sharing your experiences here, I always click on your posts.
                                                                      Stuart

                                                                      1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                        Wow, thank you, and the same to you!

                                                                2. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                  when all's said, the CH discussion boards in the current day are a relatively small community. Its always been based on generous sharing of info. Normally that benefits everyone, owner and eater alike - although there are always cases where restaurants in a specific community have not necessarily wanted patronage by outsiders or where attention ruins the food. At this point, Im sad to say, the quotient of backbiting among posters over actual restaurant discussion and content seems to be increasing on this board at least. We'd all be better off if we returned to talking about the places we really liked, and away from challenging each others motivations.

                                                                  ps Im sure patsy grimaldi appreciates the recognition of his place. It was nice, sure, when just the old afficianados showed up but he deserves the attention.

                                                                  1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                    Yes, in the pre-WWW restaurants couldn't stay in business. Lots of deserving restaurant owners going out of business because of the lack of anonymous posts. No way for them to be discovered without someone shouting it out from the top of a mountain servers.

                                                                    I eat out a lot. Based on the numbers I have seen, more than the average person and even more than a typical CH. I am a regular at a number of places that have been regularly covered on this site and at a decent number than have rarely if ever been mentioned here. I give a lot of love and money to the places. These places show me the love back for my loyalty. So there's the love.

                                                                    Talking to the owners, they far more appreciate the regulars who show up for a Tuesday dinner every couple of weeks when its quiet than another group of 4 that shows up at 8:00 on a Friday to pile into the queue for a table when its already packed.

                                                                    If you're a good business owner and have great food, you don't need some 10 post thread on CH to keep you in business.

                                                                    I used to post about new places fairly often. I've even seen my write up show up as part of the periodic Chow email blast. I got a chuckle the first time I saw a quote of from one of my reviews in an email that I imagined landed in a million in boxes. How much love is shown by all those threads that ask some variant of "I'm hungry and want to eat something good. Where should I go?" I guess I've grown weary of providing advice to people who are too lazy to do even the barest bit of research. It feels like when you've done the final paper for a class and the guy who skipped coming to class all semester wants to just copy your paper.

                                                                    As jen kalb points out, it seems that a small number of people provide info and way more people seem to then just spend their energy arguing about each others opinions.

                                                                    1. re: Bkeats

                                                                      I took the time to try to convince Sluggo and all the "lurkers" out there of the value of sharing, I was not arguing about a food opinion. Wonderful that you support well deserving restaurants and they return the love, so you missed my point. It is about sharing here, and the benefits to all, not just you. Nice of you to protect your favorite spots from crowds at inopportune times. They might want or need that business at other times, when 'hounds are likely to go. Maybe in these tough economic times and in an industry most notable for failure, the places you mention are the lucky and uncommon few who do not want more customers. Finally, your school analogy is misplaced. That example is cheating, which is wrong, only benefits the cheater and otherwise disadvantages everyone else. Here it is not wrong and other then your inconvenience, everyone benefits, some, immeasurably. Please share.

                                                                      1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                        Why don't you just let it go? Yada, yada, yada. Can't stand to be wrong, can you? I'll tell you what. You can have your prissy, effete food blog because this is the last time I will visit it. Have a nice life.

                                                                        1. re: Sluggo1407

                                                                          see above.........
                                                                          share the love.

                                                                          Ya' got fours years in here, you should stay and continue to contribute.

                                                                          1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                            Four more years! Four more years!

                                                                            1. re: Peter Cuce

                                                                              For more ears! For more ears!

                                                                              Can't believe we may actually have lost Sluggo. Gulp. Kinda chokes me up. Nice to have an enforcer in the house now and again. Keep it real Sluggs.

                                                      2. That looks super burnt. That's a shame, when you travel out of the way, wait so long for pizza and pay $5 a slice, the consistency needs to be there.

                                                        1. At least one person agrees with you:

                                                          http://www.foodrepublic.com/2014/03/1...

                                                          2 Replies
                                                          1. re: erica

                                                            I've had pretty amazing pizza at DiFara's and I don't even like pizza. I think that blogger was just looking for some controversy or sloppy or a combination thereof. If she's going to write a slam piece, get the facts straight and try the pizza more than once.

                                                            Dom's not perfect, but considering he's one man, making every pizza for the past few decades, with obvious care in his preparation and ingredients, the blogger was way off the mark.

                                                            1. re: Pookipichu

                                                              i llike di fara's and the next time in brooklyn i'll still hit it up.

                                                          2. Interesting discussion.
                                                            Ye, that slice does not look good. How long did you wait for that FW? I'm quite surprised Dom actually served it. Perhaps its time for him to get some help.
                                                            Last time I waited 45 mins for a slice, then went to Best Pizza in Williamsburg and had a better slice with no wait (coincidentally Katie Parla who wrote that Republic piece and got slammed did the exact same thing)

                                                            5 Replies
                                                            1. re: Ziggy41

                                                              "no wait" obviously didnt include the travel time between midwood and williamsburg, right? (unless you have invented a teleportation device and are holding out on us!?!?)

                                                              1. re: Ziggy41

                                                                As Tex-s toast mentions your travel to Williamsburgh, my travel to go to Di Fara was as long as the wait. I went a a quiet time of day, but still had to wait about 20 minutes.
                                                                In previous posts people talk about pizza places there for 50 years. I will mention New Park Pizza on Crossbay Blvd, has had good and consistently good pizza for decades. It's no Motorino, but it's good pizza.

                                                                1. re: foodwhisperer

                                                                  Don't worry about my travel time. I have a chauffeur, but thats enough about me. My point was.. well I didn't have a point. But will make one now.. We are talking about pizza in NYC, the only city where you can get a decent slice and a pharmacy on every corner. You don't travel for an hour and stand on a long line for your Cialis, right, FW? Same for pizza.
                                                                  In my case a few months ago, my women went shopping so i had a free day and so I went to L&B, Difara and Best just to compare. Best turned out best

                                                                  1. re: Ziggy41

                                                                    Where's Best? What style of pizza do they serve?

                                                                    1. re: Pan

                                                                      http://best.piz.za.com/

                                                                      oh havermeyer in wburg - its a some-what modern take on classic slice-joint style, and very good (though maybe not the best? sorry, couldnt help myself)

                                                              2. This negative review prompted me to finally pay Di Fara a visit today. I've been meaning to go for years, but it always seemed like such a hassle with the travel time and wait time. But with all this talk of inconsistencies, I thought I better go sooner rather than later.

                                                                Got there around 3:45 and ordered one regular slice and one square slice. Wait wasn't too bad with a few people waiting for pies and slices. My regular slice was ready in about 20 minutes and the square slice a few minutes after that.

                                                                The verdict? Pretty darn good pizza. Clearly good quality ingredients. For my tastes, I would have liked a little more salt on both slices. Also think the regular slice could have been cooked a little longer and the square slightly less, but I'm nit-picking here. I enjoyed both. Definitely prefer the regular slice as I favor thinner crusts while this also had heavier seasonings. Oh, and yes, the slices are very oily. I didn't mind but I can't see myself eating too many slices in one sitting.

                                                                Would I go back? Not sure. The pizza was worth this one trip but I really do hate waiting on long lines. Maybe if I could make it there again at an off-hour and wasn't too far away with a car.

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: churros

                                                                  Thanks for the review Churros.

                                                                2. btw, jim leff, have you tried DiFara's recently ?????

                                                                  What's your opinion ?

                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                  1. re: kevin

                                                                    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9619...

                                                                  2. In reading this long DiFara thread, we thought about all the times we have eaten at DiFara's over these many years, where in the beginning of the last decade one could count on being served excellent pizzas on a consistent basis and also less crowded, where one could go there for lunch and be served within a reasonable time, but in recent years we have also received pizzas with burned edges, pizzas lacking flavor, and the crust not as crispy, interspersed with still very good pizzas, but definitely there have been inconsistency issues. And on some occasions, DiFara's would not put on the DiBufala cheese, where the assumption is that DiFara's had run out of the DiBufala cheese. And the lack of DiBufala cheese has happened a number of times in recent years. And Mr. DeMarco is well aware of the burning of the pizzas, since he makes, cuts, and serves every single pizza that comes out of his old gas Deck ovens, hence one would think that he would perform the correct quality assurance (QA) and not serve pizza that is obviously burned.

                                                                    One might ask why with all the above negative comments, why would we still continue to patronize DiFara's.

                                                                    The reason is that DiFara's is not a mere run of the mill pizza restaurant, as mentioned by a number of posters, where the owner just wants to make as much money as possible as fast as possible without any pride in the quality of their pizzas. DiFara's is like one's elder relative, who when young was spry and told funny jokes and was always willing to help you with your problems, but now much older, less spry, telling the same old tired jokes, and no longer able to help you, but instead needing your assistance. Every respectful younger person is more than willing to cut some slack for the shortcomings of the elderly relative. And in the same manner, we are willing to cut some slack for DiFara's and Mr. DeMarco, even though there have been some inconsistency and with deficient QA in serving less than stellar pizza on occasion in the recent years.

                                                                    We remember enjoying DiFara's pizza early in the last decade when there was more consistency and at very reasonable prices, in fact we felt fairly guilty eating such good pizzas at such relatively low prices, since DiFara used more expensive ingredients than typical pizzerias. Hence, although there has been a very large price increase for DiFara's pizza in recent years, especially for individual slices, we do not feel put upon, as after paying these higher prices, DiFara's is just getting a fairer price on an average basis for all the years we enjoyed DiFara's at a lower price.

                                                                    Of course, this reasoning would not apply to those many customers who are more recent customers to DiFara's after the large price increase, but unfortunately this has never been a fair world. There are enough old DiFara customers with this long prospective, and new customers who come due to DiFara's deserved fame, that DiFara's will continue to be crowded, and most of the time, DiFara's still produces better pizza than the average pizzeria in NYC.

                                                                    We happened to be in Naples, Italy, last year, and while we did not have the time to wait for pizza at "Da Michele," a well known pizzeria known for their excellent pizzas, which had lines longer than DiFara's (possibly due to the star power of the actress, Julia Roberts, where a scene in a movie was filmed there), but we instead went to an equally known good pizza restaurant called "Trianon," (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...) just around the corner from "Da Michele," that miraculously did not have any line at all, where we were seated immediately at a table on the first floor and ordered several DOP plain pizzas, which were quite good. Here is a SeriousEats link to a roundup of good pizza restaurants in Naples, Italy, for anyone planning to visit in the future ( http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives... ).

                                                                    The purpose of telling this long story about being in Naples, Italy, and enjoying pizza from the source, so to speak, is that while we liked and enjoyed the pizza at "Trianon," we still enjoy the pizza at DiFara's better, when Mr. DeMarco is on his game and does not have an "off" day.

                                                                    Francis Lam wrote a very warm and on the mark essay in 2006 about DiFara's in the Financial Times website (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/99a7cb...). Below are excerpted the last two paragraphs that captures the quintessence of DiFara's:

                                                                    "I smiled and agreed as I realised why his pizza is so good. He sells this soda because he loves it. He flies in his cheese because he loves it. He stretches dough only after it's ordered because he loves it."

                                                                    "He is an old man. His work has not been kind to his body and he shows his 69 years. He has been going home with flour on his shoes for nearly half a century. He does not run a restaurant - he makes pizza because he loves it."

                                                                    And in the corresponding manner, we and many other long time DiFara customers, feel that we are friends (in a figurative sense) who just drop by now and then to eat good pizza at DiFara's, and well aware that Mr. DeMarco, at the advanced age of around 78 years of age now, is going to be off his best game, like an aging sports star who obviously has lost a step or two and is in decline, but is still playing at an average skill level, but much below his peak years, when one could get an excellent pizza almost every time one ate there.

                                                                    Sometimes we rationalize the non-existent QA at DiFara's in knowingly serving burned or other unsatisfactory pizzas, by thinking that Mr. DeMarco is like a parent who has an Autistic child, and who loves all of his pizzas regardless, and cannot bear not serving any of his pizzas, good or not, especially when he has been serving excellent pizzas consistently for many decades. No one wants to admit that their skills are in decline, and it is also hard for a "friend" to think badly of Mr. DeMarco.

                                                                    The world would certainly be a better place if people worked not because one was primarily paid money, but also because they loved what they were doing in making a product or performing some service, or at the very least having tremendous pride in their work that is needed by society. And this does not pertain only for those with special highly paid skills, since all work is important and deserves respect in this complex world of ours. If highly paid sports stars or movie stars disappeared, the world might be disappointed, but the world would easily be able to get along without sports stars and movie stars, but how long would any large urban city last if the garbage was not picked up or there were no one to drive the buses, trains, and other transportation? Not very long, even though these jobs are not the most highly paid positions or with the most prestige.

                                                                    There will be a great loss when DiFara's eventually closes it's doors.

                                                                    34 Replies
                                                                    1. re: lwong

                                                                      That is a great, heartfelt review, thanks for taking the time.

                                                                      1. re: lwong

                                                                        Thanks for some good reading.

                                                                        1. re: foodwhisperer

                                                                          Echoing the thanks.

                                                                        2. re: lwong

                                                                          That was awesome and the best post I have read in a long time.

                                                                          One thing though. I think he should have spent time mentoring and having other people take over eventually (for all I know maybe he has but I have not heard of it). I think part of the great thing for masters to do is to teach others so the knowledge is preserved.

                                                                          1. re: tpigeon

                                                                            Well said, grasshopper.

                                                                            1. re: tpigeon

                                                                              Our understanding is that some of Mr. DeMarco's progeny have indeed opened pizzeria's, one in Las Vegas called "Dom DeMarco's," and another one at LGA airport in the Delta terminal, called "Taste of Tagliare." "Dom DeMarco" is garnering very good reviews on the Yelp (http://www.yelp.com/biz/dom-demarcos-...).

                                                                              As we have written on earlier Chowhound posts, one would think that as simple as pizza is, that there would be many more excellent pizzerias in NYC, but out of the estimated 1600 pizzerias in NYC (http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...), there are only 25 to 50 pizza places in all of NYC that might merit accolades for serving excellent pizzas, which is approximately 3% of all pizzerias in NYC. This data would lead one to conjecture that making an excellent pizza requires a mindset and with fairly rare skills that are not easy to master nor pass on to others, otherwise NYC would be overrun with excellent pizzerias.

                                                                              But have no fear, as the random mutations of genes, not to mention inherited genes, are always churning away and there will always be the small percent of humans lucky enough to be given the right genes and who have the proper attitude, who will be able to carry on the torch with the responsibility of pushing mankind forward in terms of making excellent pizzas and other vital endeavors.

                                                                              1. re: lwong

                                                                                Oh goodness, it's just pizza. How does one define "excellent" anyhow? How many of the 1600 pizzerias does any one person actually visit?

                                                                                I do think there is a lot of mediocre pizza around. More likely a function of market demand than anything else. Not lack of pizza making skills. Many people want something quick, cheap, and filling. Most of the pizza out there satisfies that need. Fortunately there are also enough good places for those (including myself) who are a little snobbish about pizza.

                                                                                1. re: churros

                                                                                  Aren't you aware that saying "It's just pizza" is a blasphemous phrase to state on a "DiFara" thread on Chowhound? (LOL) But we thought that we had kept our priorities in proper perspective by stating "and other vital endeavors."

                                                                                  As for defining excellent pizza, a very subjective issue, we would like to paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart's famous quote, "I know it when I see it." In a similar fashion, "I know it when I taste it" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_i... ).

                                                                                  Since no one has the time nor the inclination to sample 1600 pizzerias, most people depend upon friends, and most importantly, professional and amateur food reviewers to sift through those 1600 pizzerias and find the gems worth going to. That is the point of Chowhound and other professional/amateur food media, is it not? Is it possible that reviewers could still miss hidden pizzerias that serve excellent pizza? Yes, of course, but in this age of instant restaurant reviews on the Internet, it is becoming less likely that any really good restaurant would fly under the radar forever.

                                                                                  Most pizza places serve fairly deplorable pizza, and it is rare that when we try an unknown pizzeria, we would be surprised by the excellence of the pizza. Obviously if a pizzeria uses low quality ingredients, the pizza is not going to taste very good, but just because a pizzeria uses high quality ingredients, this does not guarantee that the pizza will be excellent, as DiFara uses high quality ingredients, but their pizza is not always excellent tasting, as many reviewers have attested to on Chowhound and other venues. This is obviously due to the mysterious skill element in making excellent pizzas. As mentioned in our previous post, only about 3% of the restaurants that serve pizza in NYC are given high praise by both professional and amateur reviewers. Most of the lists of best pizzas in NYC list the similar pizza restaurants with minor variations.

                                                                                  There is certainly a lot of truth in your statement that many diners only want to eat "something quick, cheap, and filling," as shown by the success of the many fast food chain restaurants and the many mediocre pizzerias, but to state that there would easily be more excellent pizzas if only the market demand warranted it, that would certainly be a debatable contention. This would mean that there are large numbers of very skilled "Pizzaiolos and Pizzaiolas," who have the talent to make excellent pizzas, but are instead toiling away knowingly making inferior pizzas at average and good pizzerias, and when any of them with entrepreneurial spirit opens an excellent pizzeria, they close their doors soon after as there is insufficient demand for excellent pizzas. We do not think this is too plausible a scenario.

                                                                                  In a city of over 8 million people, with all the long lines at the excellent pizzerias in NYC, there should be sufficient market demand for more than the mere 25 to 50 pizza restaurants serving excellent pizzas out of 1600 pizza restaurants. According to classical economics, in a free market, businesses will endeavor to improve their product to gain market share, but the fact remains that there are indeed not enough excellent pizzerias in NYC.

                                                                                  A "Shake Shack" concession has been open at CitiField for a number of years now, and our understanding is that there are very long lines to purchase hamburgers during Met games, which results in the fan missing several innings of game play. While this is only anecdotal evidence, it does suggest that when the average diner has a choice of eating better tasting food, they are more than willing to wait on long lines (whether it is worth waiting on line and missing several innings of baseball to eat a Shake Shack burger is another question), rather than eat the typical over priced and less than satisfactory food served at ball parks, which Citifield and Yankee stadium appears to be addressing with better quality food vendors according to reviews. Hence the both of us should not be in such a hurry to sell the average diner short in stating that they are content to only eat mediocre food.

                                                                                  We would be very pleased if my local neighborhood had an overabundance of excellent pizzerias. But our experience is that the distribution of skill sets in most areas of life follow the "normal curve" (the infamous Bell Curve), where only a small percentage of the people on the right hand side of the Normal Curve in any particular endeavor have very superior skills. And most importantly, excellence requires dedication, pride, and love for one's work that is a rare commodity in this world. It is a much easier task to enjoy eating excellent pizza, than it is to make excellent pizza.

                                                                                  1. re: lwong

                                                                                    Sorry to sound argumentative, but I disagree with most of your post. Here goes:

                                                                                    Suggesting that pizza might be a "vital endeavor" seems a bit much to me. And I love pizza.

                                                                                    Your 25-50 and 3% numbers seem so arbitrary. Only places that get media attention can be deemed "excellent"? I don't think so. Plenty of good places fly under the radar. And not just pizza joints.

                                                                                    Pizza is basically NY street food. Many people are not venturing far for it. It is often meant to be had on the run, for a quick meal or snack, to feed family/groups on a budget, etc. Mediocrity is acceptable when time and money are short. In fact, mediocrity can't be helped if customers can't afford to pay for better quality pizza. Especially in high-rent Manhattan. Also, the ongoing influx of new immigrants and people from other parts of the US into NYC means many just don't know better.

                                                                                    Pizza is subjective, and I don't know your tastes. Where are you having all this deplorable pizza? Is it possible that you just don't like the typical NY slice? Have you tried some of the better places in town?

                                                                                    I'll stick by my view that pizza-making skills are not rare. I grew up having a ton of great pizza in an Italian-American neighborhood just outside NYC. In fact, there is still an abundance of good places in my hometown. Demographics matter. I'm guessing other Italian-American areas within NYC also see higher concentrations of good pizza.

                                                                                    I don't think your Shake Shack example really works. Of course people will prefer the better quality food with all other things being equal. Shake Shack food isn't more expensive than the other options in Citi Field. Time is also not as much of a factor given the customers have already committed the afternoon/evening to the ballpark. How significant are these numbers anyway? A few hundred people out of an average attendance of 20,000-30,000?

                                                                                    Finally, the Bell Curve. Can be applied to many things. One can probably make the argument that the top X% of any food requires superior skills, dedication, pride, love, etc. Pizza ain't that special.

                                                                                    I maintain that the state of pizza is driven more by customer demand/demographics than anything else.

                                                                                    1. re: churros

                                                                                      "Pizza is subjective"

                                                                                      This is anthropomorphising a food item.

                                                                                      Taste is certainly subjective, though, to some degrees, we do not know if it all or some extent falls into nature, or nurture.

                                                                                      I had a horrible slice the other day. I cost 2.50. I would have had more of a flavor fest for my mouth with a 2.00 hotdog from a stand, with loads of mustard, and a bit of kachup.

                                                                                      Overrated item, with a glut, pardon the word I have used on other posts, but certainly.

                                                                                      Shack Shack example fair.

                                                                                      Mediocrity point is a good one. I commend.

                                                                                      " Pizza ain't that special"

                                                                                      According to the majority of people who commented here, it is extremely special.

                                                                                      We may want to define special, first, though.

                                                                                      "I maintain that the state of pizza is driven more by customer demand/demographics than anything else."

                                                                                      I differ on this. The majority of pizza found in NYC all over, is driven by ignorance of the populous, leaving those who are not ignorant, seeking the superior makers of pizza.

                                                                                      In other parts of the world, this signifier 'pizza' is like Santa Claus. I am mainly taking about Asia, and perhaps other regions devoid of a continuous thread with the culture that pizza is from.

                                                                                      Just as in Asia, people go crazy with the idea of 'pizza', often devoid of quality. Hence the chain delivery kind, that are major revenue public traded stocks in some cases.

                                                                                      I will refuse a bad slice, soso slice, deplorable slice, and a mediocre slice, in favor of a pack of peanuts..hot dog...etc, if I am on the go. I desire good taste.

                                                                                      1. re: churros

                                                                                        No need to apologize, as we enjoy intellectual dustups every once in a while. (LOL)

                                                                                        It appears that our writing is either too subtle or not very good, as you had missed our sly attempts at humor in elevating pizza to promethean heights. We thought in our last response where we had stated that, "we had kept our priorities in proper perspective by stating 'and other vital endeavors,'" we had made this clear.

                                                                                        All lists of excellent pizza are arbitrary, as that is the nature of "best lists." Like all people interested in good food, we await discoveries of excellent restaurants flying under the radar on this forum and other food media.

                                                                                        We agree wholeheartedly with your contention that in NYC, pizza is a street food, but this is not the debate issue in question. It is as stated in our earlier post, "whether there are large numbers of very skilled 'Pizzaiolos and Pizzaiolas,' who have the talent to make excellent pizzas, but are instead toiling away knowingly making inferior pizzas at average and good pizzerias, and when any of them with entrepreneurial spirit opens an excellent pizzeria, they close their doors soon after as there is insufficient demand for excellent pizzas." NYC can definitely support more than 25 to 50 excellent pizzerias. Many more. You have not addressed this and provided any evidence of pizzerias that were making excellent pizza and had to close because there was insufficient demand, since according to your thesis, the average diner would rather eat mediocre pizza.

                                                                                        Do you realize that you have turned Chowhound upside down in asking the opposite question of "Where are you having all this deplorable pizza?" Rather than go into our typical lengthy detailed response, let us say simply that finding a deplorable pizzeria is not difficult in the NYC metro area. Would you like to make a wager that we couldn't easily find 25 to 50 or even hundreds of deplorable pizzerias in NYC? And didn't you yourself state, "I do think there is a lot of mediocre pizza around." And because food is so subjective, and from your statement of incredulously asking where are all these deplorable pizzerias, is it possible that we might have a much higher subjective threshold than you for a pizzeria to be not considered a "deplorable pizza" pizzeria? (LOL) Finding an excellent pizzeria is what would be hard, as one would have to travel to one of the 25 to 50 excellent pizzerias that may be far from one's neighborhood, and of course to the many undiscovered excellent pizzerias flying under the radar.

                                                                                        Well, you may not agree with our "Shake Shack" anecdote, but Mr. Meyers, the owner of "Shake Shack," is quite happy with those numbers, as "Shake Shack" has expanded all over the NYC metro area and beginning to open branches nationally, as diners have flocked to "Shake Shack" restaurants. When people are given an equal choice of eating excellent versus mediocre food, the choice is a no brainer. It should be noted that at the other "Shake Shack" branches, they are not captive audiences like they are at Citifield. We have eaten at many of the new "Shack Shack" branches and all of them are quite quite crowded during the lunch hour.

                                                                                        We are both in agreement about the "Normal Curve," as we had stated similar sentiments in our prior post:

                                                                                        "But our experience is that the distribution of skill sets in most areas of life follow the "normal curve" (the infamous Bell Curve), where only a small percentage of the people on the right hand side of the Normal Curve in any particular endeavor have very superior skills. And most importantly, excellence requires dedication, pride, and love for one's work that is a rare commodity in this world."

                                                                                        Yes, pizza is one of the foods in this world that requires skill, dedication, pride, and love in order to be able to make an excellent pizza. All the pizzerias on the "best lists" have these characteristics. Whether pizza is considered special is left to the proclivities of each Chowhound.

                                                                                        Would it be safe to state that we are both in agreement that NYC does not have enough excellent pizzerias, but disagree on the reasons for the dearth of excellent pizzerias? We will have to agree to disagree about the reasons why there are not more excellent pizzerias in NYC, but the more important issue is that we both wish for more excellent pizzerias in NYC.

                                                                                        1. re: lwong

                                                                                          "Shake Shack" never knew what it really was, but heard it from strangers next to me waiting for traffic, or in a cafe.

                                                                                          Sort of like the way I know celebrity names, only.

                                                                                          Is there some similarity?

                                                                                          1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                            no.

                                                                                            none whatsoever.

                                                                                            zero.

                                                                                            1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                              There are similarities. Celebrities become shallow icons.

                                                                                              Shake Shake becomes worshipped and visited, they become something similar to what a church is. You see people you know there, who share in a belief.

                                                                                              So, actually, Shake Shack is more like a place of worship. The mythologies abound too.

                                                                                              I was amazed at the amount of sugared items on the large menu board.

                                                                                              It would be a nice place to get coffee and have a long sit with a newspaper or book, but the continued flow of worshippers, just make that not such a good idea.

                                                                                              I think they do have good coffee.

                                                                                              By the way, Di Fara is closed for a few days or even longer.

                                                                                              1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                The person who is obsessed with celebrity sees it everywhere . The person who cares little about it sees it nowhere. Some political types see Marxists in every corner. Some see black helicopters. It's all good. Life is more amusing that way

                                                                                                1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                                  Di Fara is celebrity status.

                                                                                                  As I walked by there recently, I said "it's closed" and some man walking near stated "no...they are just vacationing....its said to be the best pizza in Brooklyn, how can they close...."

                                                                                                  Karl Marx Burger. Now that would sell. Karl Marx pizza, that just does not sound like a seller.

                                                                                                  1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                    restaurants close for vacation all the time. hundreds of them at this very moment. all over new york, america, the world. the owner of Kolib in Astoria,a recent vacationer, is not a celebrity. he may be a Marxist. that would not impact my enjoyment of his food ... unless he imitated ol' Karl's grooming and shed beard hairs into my goulash.

                                                                                                    1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                                      I have no problem with Marxism and use it to some degree with other theories in analysing restaurant markets, food, and commercial realms.

                                                                                                      For instance, Marx would not disagree in supporting small businesses that are single owned and serve pizza or some of what is obviously Czech derived breaded items with assorted other items on top.

                                                                                                      If I were to go to Koliba, what would be a good introduction to this place, from your personal perspective.

                                                                                                2. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                  I just called them but there is no mention on their recording about a vacation. I had been planning on going there this Sunday. Does anyone know if there is a sign posted or any other verified information about it being closed for vacation?

                                                                                                  1. re: smilingal

                                                                                                    Check Facebook and twitter. Di Fara was closed for vacation and re-opened a couple of days ago.

                                                                                                    1. re: churros

                                                                                                      I hope so because when I called yesterday I only got a recording.

                                                                                                    2. re: smilingal

                                                                                                      Without a doubt...DiFara has The Best Pizza in NY to date! We ordered two pies....one just to take home....sure it won't be the same but memories of our first time will color the age of time.

                                                                                                      1. re: smilingal

                                                                                                        wow.

                                                                                                        better than the veal liver from the venue just two minutes away?

                                                                                                        It is not the price. Nor is it the dated look of the establishment. The dated look is what drives my appreciation. It drive my appreciation to the extend I do not need a slice. The best is confirmed by so many, save for the OP here.

                                                                                                        1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                          Veal liver pizza?

                                                                                                        2. re: smilingal

                                                                                                          and for those wondering minds....so happy we brought home that extra pie ---- we were planning on freezing it and winging it with the reheating results --- it didn't get to the freezer - and we reheated it the next night on a pizza stone - and it was GREAT! The dough has a great flavor - a bit sweet and a bit sour {?} - and I love the plum tomatoes (once again!)

                                                                                                          1. re: smilingal

                                                                                                            Di Fara is great reheated, the few times I brought back a slice or two.

                                                                                                  2. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                    Although we have stated that we enjoy intellectual dustups, two in one day may be too much for our faint heart.

                                                                                                    Now from reading your very terse posting, it would appear that you are possibly casting aspersions on "Shake Shack" and confusing their celebrity with the quality of their food. These are two separate aspects of "Shake Shack." Chowhounds are of course, only interested in the quality of the food.

                                                                                                    We are not for much for gawking at celebrities either, but we were taught not to prejudge anyone or anything, but to judge everyone and everything on their merits. We assume that you were taught in the same civilized manner? A celebrity actor might be a complete jerk in his personal life (their celebrity), but this does not mean that they cannot be a fine actor and one can still appreciate their skills at acting in their movies. Remember, celebrities are not our friends, but just someone who is selling a skill for us to appreciate and enjoy. Judging "Shake Shack" on their merits would require one to ingest their food, would it not?

                                                                                                    We would recommend that you try "Shake Shack' and make up your own mind on the quality of their hamburgers. We think the "Shake Shack" hamburgers are very good to excellent with good value for your money, but whether it is worth all the hassle of the long lines is another question, but with the added new branches in the city, the long lines have become a little more manageable and shorter, especially if you go at off hours. This reminds us of the line about NYC, that it would really be a great city to live in, if there were not so many people and not such an expensive city. As in everything in life, one must weigh the pluses and minuses and be prepared to compromise.

                                                                                                  3. re: lwong

                                                                                                    Yes, sorry. I didn't realize your earlier post was tongue-in-cheek. When taken seriously, it seemed over the top to me.

                                                                                                    I always wish for more good food. Pizza and everything else. But I don't think the NYC pizza scene is lacking. There are a lot of mediocre places to avoid but also plenty of good places assuming one knows where to find them and is willing to put the extra effort to get to them. Again, the 25-50 number seems random to me. Maybe that's how many places are repeatedly mentioned in the media but there are a lot of neighborhoods they ignore. Including some traditionally Italian-American areas in the outer boroughs.

                                                                                                    I asked about your pizza experiences because I wonder if we simply have different standards. I like Difara and the artisanal gourmet pizzas that abound, but I also enjoy the regular NY slice. For example, the pizzerias that I've been to in this thread, (http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/978016), I consider to be at least good and some to be very good or excellent. Have you been to any of these and did you like them? If you didn't enjoy any of them, I would suggest that you don't like the typical NY slice or you have much higher standards than I do.

                                                                                                    Another thing I wonder is the demographics of the neighborhoods where you've had deplorable pizza. If it was in Manhattan or certain ethnic neighborhoods in the outer boroughs, I wouldn't be surprised. High rents in Manhattan make it hard for many places to put out a quality product at an affordable price. Meanwhile some immigrant neighborhoods just don't have strong demand for good pizza.

                                                                                                    The demand for Difara's pizza is unusual. A lot probably due to media hype. Many other "best" places don't have long lines. I don't know if I've ever waited more than 10 minutes for a slice anywhere else. So I don't really see the pent-up demand for excellent pizzerias that you do. Excessive demand for Difara and mostly normal levels everywhere else.

                                                                                                    I agree Shake Shack makes a good burger. I still don't think it's relevant to the pizza discussion. Many pizza customers want something quick and cheap. Shake Shack customers are looking for something else.

                                                                                                    1. re: churros

                                                                                                      It appears that our differences for the "pizza scene" as you would put it is that you are satisfied with the number of excellent pizzerias in NYC, while we are not. We are more greedy and would want more excellent pizzerias, especially in our own local neighborhood, but unfortunately there are only so many excellent pizzerias to go around.

                                                                                                      We like the many various different styles of pizza, including NYC pizza, but it is not the style that is important, but whether the restaurant makes an excellent pizza in that style. If interested, there is a nice very informative video in two parts by Mr. Jeff Varasano, giving his understanding of the history of pizza and how pizza is made and how each step in the pizza making process affects the flavor and texture of the finished pizza ( http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/inde... ).

                                                                                                      Mr. Varasano, like Mr. Pauli Gee, were both amateurs who felt pizza was a very special food and as a result, each one became a professional in opening their own pizzeria, Mr. Gee in Greenpoint, New York, and Mr. Varasano in Atlanta, Georgia. There is a nice write-up from the SeriousEats site ( http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/06/th... ) naming "Varasano's Pizzeria" as one of the top ten pizzerias in Atlanta, Ga. At Varasano's website (http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm), he has generously posted the recipe for his home pizza that took many years of trial and error to get right. Although, later in that video thread, Varasano states that he has a new process for storing the dough to impart more flavor, but that the new process will remain secret for the time being. There is also a link to a Google map of the pizzerias that Varasano considers among the best in the world ( https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT... ).

                                                                                                      In checking the Chowhound link you provided in your last post, we find that we have gone to a number of the pizzerias mentioned in the thread. We have been to "Nick's Pizza" in Forest Hills, "Amore" in the Linden Shopping Center, "New Park" in Howard Beach, and your recommendation, "King Umberto's" in Elmont. None of these pizzerias we tried would be considered "deplorable," which would be expected, as these were recommendations of better pizzerias from the Chowhound forum.

                                                                                                      Of these four pizzerias, we liked "Nick's" the best. We have also been once to the "Nick's" branch in Rockville Centre, but even though supposedly it is owned by the same owner and would use the same recipes and same suppliers, the pizza at the Rockville Centre branch did not taste as good as at the original Forest Hills restaurant.

                                                                                                      In our local area, we have also tried "Patsy's" of Whitestone and "Grimaldi's" of Douglaston, with their linkage to famous pizzerias of the past, but find that they were only a little above average pizzerias at best. We have tried "Grimaldi's" in Douglaston a number of times, and find that their pizza always comes to our table barely warm, even when we tell the waitress that we would like the pizza piping hot. And of course, we have tried the many unknown local pizzerias with pizzas that are average to forgettable.

                                                                                                      We have not been to the highly praised restaurants "Roberta's," "Lucali," "Franny's," and "Pauli Gee's," which are known for their pizzas, but according to many reviews, there are long lines for tables at these restaurants. However, "Nick's" in Forest Hills has very good pizza and usually has no lines when we go in the early afternoons.

                                                                                                      And it should be noted that the pizzas at the above highly praised pizzerias are not cheap, but fairly expensive when the typical price is $15 to $18 for a 12 inch personal sized pizza and at Lucali, which makes the standard 16-18 inch pies, a plain pie is $24. While much has been written about DiFara's high prices, the above and other equivalent pizza restaurants are charging pretty much the same prices, as it takes roughly two 12 inch personal pizzas to equal the standard 16-18 inch New York style sized pizzas that DiFara's makes.

                                                                                                      You state with little evidence that the set of people who eat hamburgers and the set of people who eat pizzas are mutually exclusive. We like hamburgers and we also like pizza, which is probably the more general case than that pizzas and hamburgers have different sets of customers.

                                                                                                      1. re: lwong

                                                                                                        Okay, I think we probably share fairly similar tastes in pizza. I also like Nick's, Amore, New Park, and King Umberto's. Haven't been to Patsy's in Whitestone or Grimaldi's in Douglaston (though if they're related to the Patsy's mini-chain in the city and the Grimaldi's by the Brooklyn Bridge, then I don't care for them either).

                                                                                                        Here is where I think is the source of our disagreement. Your assertion that (I'm paraphrasing) "if only there were more skilled pizzaiolas, there would be many more excellent pizzerias" seems overly simplistic and therefore flawed to me because you're not segmenting the pizza market and taking into account the different demand drivers. The slice joints and the whole-pie places shouldn't really be judged against each other. As you note, different price points. But also they're serving different customer needs.

                                                                                                        Earlier, I mentioned what drives the slice joint market (quick, cheap, and filling) and compared it to street food. The whole-pie places, on the other hand, are meant for customers who have more time and money to spend on the meal. They're competing more with other sit-down restaurants. They can afford to use higher quality ingredients because they have customers who are willing to pay for that. Their pizza is being made to order and not ahead of time and reheated like most slice joints. Nick's is a whole pie place as are Roberta's, Lucali, Franny's, and Paulie Gee's. It makes sense that in general, these whole-pie places would make "better" pizza than the slice joints. I don't think, however, the market can support 1600 of them or even many more than currently exist (50, 100, 150?).

                                                                                                        Shake Shack is more like the whole-pie place. Burgers are made to order, and the food is not really that cheap. It's not comparable to the vast majority of NYC pizzerias which fall in the slice joint category. I'm not saying customers can't enjoy both a Shake Shack burger and a slice. Or both a slice and a whole-pie. But they probably want these at different times.

                                                                                                        Di Fara, even though it does sell slices, currently shares more characteristics with the whole-pie places given the wait time and price. I think it's also important to note that, based on some Chowhound threads, it seems that Di Fara was a regular slice joint and not doing particularly good business until the place started to get media attention. Dom then had the luxury to transform his pizza, use higher quality ingredients, and raise his prices because there was a ready and willing customer base. Many other slice joints don't have this luxury. There are some things that are done that might compromise quality but that's the business environment. The demand side of the equation matters a great deal. Doesn't mean these pizzaiolos are necessarily less talented or lack pride in what they do.

                                                                                                        1. re: churros

                                                                                                          I believe Dom was the first to charge $5 a shot for a plain slice and that began a few years ago.

                                                                                        2. re: lwong

                                                                                          That's a truly great post, but though I loved DiFara's pizza, I haven't been there for years, and it's not because I had heard there were quality problems, but because (a) I don't feel it's worth it to wait so long for pizza and (b) there are pizzerias closer to my home in Manhattan that are excellent, so after having had several great meals at DiFara over a period of several years, I don't mind relegating them to memory. And with those long lines, clearly, his business is not hurting.

                                                                                          1. re: Pan

                                                                                            When we take friends to DiFaras, we carefully prepare them that going to DiFaras is not going to a restaurant for a quick meal, that there will be very long lines, that the restaurant will have very humble decor, that DiFara's might have an off day, and that they must treat it as a social outing, where everyone will while away the time while waiting on line by chatting with each other exchanging the latest social gossip, discuss world affairs, and other important topics.

                                                                                            And one can also strike up conservations with the other waiting "friends" on the line. The last time we were at DiFara's, we had a very enjoyable conversation with a group of Iranians, where the young attractive Iranian woman in the group told us that she grew up in rural China, and that she had worked in her family's pizzeria side business in China, where all the ingredients had to be made by themselves! An Iranian making Italian pizzas for Chinese customers in rural China who probably never encountered a pizza before. Can one be told stories like that in any ordinary pizzeria? Waiting in line at DiFara's is not so bad when one can have marvelous conversations with one's friends and even with strangers.

                                                                                            P.S. Thank you to all the posters who have made favorable comments on our earlier post. We enjoyed writing the post and are most happy that some Chowhounds enjoyed reading it.

                                                                                            1. re: lwong

                                                                                              lwong, that's an interesting story.

                                                                                              thanks.

                                                                                        3. What is with the tin foil?

                                                                                          You ought to go to Italian Bensonhurst and pay a visit to IL Colosseo Restaurant.

                                                                                          There are plates that they use, not foil.

                                                                                          I have had pizza since, by the slice, and on paper plates, not foil, more than a few times since my visit, and nothing compares.

                                                                                          I will just quote from my post comment that someone left today:

                                                                                          "Great place. Like eating in a suburb of Naples or Bari, surrounded by families. Recommend: grilled octopus, baked clams, and grilled giant prawns, spaghetti vongole, any fresh fish prepared however you wish, pizzas, and a wine list better than it needs to be at good prices. Buzzy, friendly service. No selfies."

                                                                                          http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/978014

                                                                                          The dining trauma from the horrible pizza experience, will evaporate.

                                                                                          It will be cathartic, and delicious.

                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                            I had dinner at Il Colosseo last April and it was great. I didn't have pizza, though.

                                                                                            1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                              A little late, but thanks for quoting my comment on your Colosseo post.

                                                                                              1. re: bob96

                                                                                                Yes, at IL Colosseo one can purchase one of their most delicious heavenly intoxicating to one's taste buds, for the price of two slices at Di (5 dollar slice) Fara's.

                                                                                                Shameless ignorance keeps some places thriving, with revenue extended way beyond the average.

                                                                                                I wish I had a photo of di (5 dollar slice) Fara, to compare with this, but just pan up to the article.

                                                                                                Concerning pizza, I read in the Chinese paper last week an article about Nicks Pizza in Forest Hill.

                                                                                                I am curious about Nicks, has anyone any remarks on Nicks. The photo looked as if the pizza was coal oven cooked.

                                                                                                 
                                                                                                1. re: bob96

                                                                                                  here is the article nicks, this is for photos since it is written in Chinese:

                                                                                                  http://www.epochtimeschicago.com/inde...

                                                                                                  The article talks about the styles of pizza due to location or region, and points that Nicks is representative of New York Style. That style began with Lombardi on Spring.

                                                                                                  Looks delicious.

                                                                                                  Is it worth the trip? Anyone been, besides these writers.

                                                                                                  related to the article above:

                                                                                                  " I'm talking about classic New York pizza: pies cooked quickly in extremely hot ovens, generally coal-fired, until the thin crust achieves a gloriously charred, smoky crispness. The dough is prepared daily; the mozzarella is real, not packaged; tomatoes are the best quality, and toppings are simple and used in moderation -- no pineapple or Thai chicken. The pizzas are cooked to order and never sold by the slice."-New York Pizza, the Real Thing, Makes a Comeback
                                                                                                  By ERIC ASIMOV
                                                                                                  Published: June 10, 1998

                                                                                              2. Man, I gotta say, seeing this subject line everyday is bumming me out.

                                                                                                11 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: CMB_NYC84

                                                                                                  'soggy', 'undercooked' and 'burnt'

                                                                                                  Maybe he was an art student, who just forgot where he was, the cook that is.

                                                                                                  Actually a proper investigation would not consider 'burnt' and 'undercooked'. That is due to poor attention to activity at hand.

                                                                                                  The real question is 'soggy'. How did that bread type dough item, the pizza, come in contact with liquid.

                                                                                                  Was it raining that day?

                                                                                                  Where was the foil used to wrap that slice, prior to wrapping?

                                                                                                  1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                    Or perhaps outside forces were conspiring against him.

                                                                                                    1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                                      You mean a delinquent cook, management absence, and the new staff is flustered due to the veteran staff taking it easy, and leaving all the work for him.

                                                                                                      Yes, I see this.

                                                                                                      What about the soggy pizza.

                                                                                                      Was it a dog, let off in the area, who lapped the slice as it was setting, waiting wrapping.

                                                                                                    2. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                      the soggy was due to tons of oil I think, and perhaps the slice was sitting around and picked up humidity too. Soggy was my word, could've, use oily, greasy, droopy, rubbery

                                                                                                    3. re: CMB_NYC84

                                                                                                      Here, let me cheer you up.

                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                        Is that a whole Dom's pie ?????

                                                                                                        It does look kind of "burnt" around the edges but seemingly still looks great.

                                                                                                        Or am i wrong ?????

                                                                                                        1. re: kevin

                                                                                                          Yes, it's a whole Dom pie. Those are his hands cutting fresh basil on it.

                                                                                                          My take on it isn't that it's "kind of burnt," it's dead. Incinerated.

                                                                                                          The picture came from an article in the Slice blog that was written in 2007. This type of stuff has been going on for awhile.

                                                                                                          http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives...

                                                                                                          1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                            The burnt pizza, soggy, partially cook? Well, such phenomena does manifest itself, from time to time, at select slice and pie shots.

                                                                                                            Di Fara is not the first.

                                                                                                            But what about 'wet pizza'?

                                                                                                            Do they provide towels?

                                                                                                          2. re: kevin

                                                                                                            A few spots of burnt=good. Solid burnt, no good.

                                                                                                            1. re: kevin

                                                                                                              That's not pizza, that's human body decomposition in the form of frostbite.

                                                                                                              I'd still eat the side where the man's basil hands are.

                                                                                                              "No lie." -- Drake

                                                                                                              1. re: mushroomaffairs

                                                                                                                "human body decomposition in the form of frostbite"

                                                                                                                This is what cable TV does to people. Too many episodes of the AMC black buster.

                                                                                                        2. I was a true devotee of Dom until about 2 years ago. Now it is absolutely not worth it. It is the line and the ridiculous process that one must undergo to get the pizza. It can still be good at times, but is usually just ok. Not anywhere near its former glory. Dom is just too old. He should close up.

                                                                                                          15 Replies
                                                                                                          1. re: NYJewboy

                                                                                                            How did it take you this long to weigh in? The answer, in part, is to schedule a private party.

                                                                                                            1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                                                              What does that mean

                                                                                                              1. re: NYJewboy

                                                                                                                I think he means, to avoid the line, hold a private party at DiFara's.

                                                                                                                1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                  Yes, and you are very prolific here in general and about Brooklyn food in particular.This debate seemed right up your alley, that's all.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                    oh, you can buy out the joint ???????

                                                                                                                    interesting.

                                                                                                                    how much does that cost ?????

                                                                                                                    thanks man.

                                                                                                                    1. re: kevin

                                                                                                                      Yes.
                                                                                                                      $30 per person, includes tax but not a tip.
                                                                                                                      20 people minimum 30 maximum, approximately.
                                                                                                                      They serve from 6-9.
                                                                                                                      Price includes all you can drink from the refrigerator case and you can bring your own alcohol, and dessert. We buy some babkas from across the street. They arrange all the tables and chairs into one long banquet table down the middle.
                                                                                                                      You tell Maggie what you want. Round or square with any toppings, in any combination. She will make good suggestions on combinations. Whatever they have, you can have on your pie.
                                                                                                                      You reserve by phone, they do one or two a week. Tuesday and some Thursdays. The wait is now months. We have two reservations, one in October and one next March.
                                                                                                                      For those of us that love DiFara pizza it is a unique and fantastic experience. The pizza is spectacular. Dom is at his best. No lines, no pressure no complaints makes Dom seem younger. He will tell you stories and ask about the group. Maggie is a perfect host. We appreciate how well she runs things and tip her well. They will box up what you can't finish. No waiting as the pies come flying out once Dom gets warmed up and he is a quick starter.
                                                                                                                      Enjoy

                                                                                                                      1. re: stuartlafonda

                                                                                                                        wow this sounds exceptional, though i do have to get twenty people together.

                                                                                                                        1. re: kevin

                                                                                                                          I'd join if you want to do a CH pizza get together :)

                                                                                                                          1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                            And i'll have to make the trek to NYC :)

                                                                                                                            but if there's any like-minded hounds let me know.

                                                                                                                            it sounds like kind of private party and you can bring wines, etc.

                                                                                                                            sounds great.

                                                                                                                            you got an email under your handle for a potential future date ? :)

                                                                                                                            1. re: kevin

                                                                                                                              yumyum1nomnom@gmail.com

                                                                                                                              Getting together 20 people shouldn't be difficult, I know 2 people who would definitely join.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                                Sounds like fun....

                                                                                                                                1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                                  sounds dope, but we will still need roughly another fifteen or so.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: kevin

                                                                                                                                    We'd be another 2 or 4.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: smilingal

                                                                                                                                      Pizza party! 11 more people should be easy

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                                        Depending on the date chosen, you might only need 10. Sounds good.

                                                                                                              2. Again, a hyped up place.

                                                                                                                " ridiculous process that one must undergo to get the pizza. It can still be good at times, but is usually just ok. Not anywhere near its former glory. Dom is just too old. He should close up."

                                                                                                                It does not take sociology 101 to understand what Friedrich Nietzsche, called "herd mentality".

                                                                                                                This is what happens, when one simply follows. It is similar to the Fundamental Christian who switches to the Moonie, and then realizes that the food in the compound is miserable.

                                                                                                                Leave the compound, meaning, go out and discover, instead of 'believing'. Believing in the credo of some food niche. This niche being sliced pizza.

                                                                                                                4 Replies
                                                                                                                1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                                  one could actually experience something before one makes presumptuous proclamations.

                                                                                                                  1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                                                    I have experienced 'herd mentality'.

                                                                                                                    I sometimes on my own initiative, enter into a 'participant observation'. I have participated in religious masses, mass media, and find mass mesmerized phenomena quite exclusionary. One becomes a slave.

                                                                                                                    By excluding 'the hype', one the other hand, one can accomplish the quest for finding good tasty venues, while also distributing ones spending dollars, in a more egalitarian manner, to prospective businesses.

                                                                                                                    I cannot imagine dining for one kind of food, in an exclusionary manner. It is cheating oneself, existentially.

                                                                                                                    But you do have a very good point. Seriously, and I shall ponder that point. Thank you.

                                                                                                                    I will ponder it all the way to Di Fara, in anticipation of soggy post-apocalyptic dough...

                                                                                                                    1. re: jonkyo

                                                                                                                      i didn't mean to be offensive. but i;ve been dining at difara for more than 30 years. long before 'hype,' long before chowhound, long before the internet.

                                                                                                                      yes, the herd mentality exists. that's why we have religion, television, facebook, graduate school.

                                                                                                                      does that make all of those things inherently evil? perhaps.

                                                                                                                      in terms of this site, unless we are the actual proprietors of a restaurant, someone has been there before us, and we have followed them there.

                                                                                                                      1. re: debinqueens

                                                                                                                        No offensive here too.

                                                                                                                        One cannot deny the herds I have read in accounts at Shake Shack, and from this thread, Di Fara.

                                                                                                                        That is very interesting that you have seen the metamorphosis of Di Fara, from the neighborhood pizzeria to a destination that has religious symbolism, ie: daily to weekly, to monthly pilgrimage.

                                                                                                                        Chowhound can enlighten one of the 'hype', as well as guide one to the valued destinations for delight of the tongue, and bio-cultural nutrition.

                                                                                                                2. Yesterday July 4, at 4:00. No line, every seat,taken three people milling about the counter. I waited ten minutes and got three slices. Each one perfect, Slight char where appropriate, super thin and delicious. While I was waiting he had to toss a square pie at that stage where he is baking it with sauce but nothing else yet. A second fully prepared square pie was thisclose to officially being tagged burnt. Inconsistent as always, but my slices were transcendent.

                                                                                                                  1. I have walked by Di Fara many times never knowing that it was a talked about and stated 'best pizza of brooklyn'. The busy standing for a slice, of people inside, reminded me of just another pizza place. That was why when a few times, I desired the convenience offered from hand held pizza, I went to Jerusalem II Pizza.

                                                                                                                    Having partaken of the pizza here, just down the street, has its advantages, one being the lower cost, as well as more. There is actually seating at Jerusalem II Pizza, and one gains an experience that is civil tinged with civility.

                                                                                                                    The pizza at Jerusalem II Pizza, is good. It is just not talked about in the manner that Di Fara is talked about. The owners are not of Italian descent, though the pizza recipes come directly from New York City's history of pizza, derived from those who came from Itali or their descended line.

                                                                                                                    I also spotted Benny's Pizza, between Jerusalem II Pizza and Di Fara. This may be another alternative in the area, from Horrible pizza. Have yet to go.