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Diabetic eating low carb but not losing weight

I've been reducing carbs since last summer but have been really trying to eat a maximum of 75 or less grams daily since Jan. I. I've done this to get better control of my out of control Type 2 diabetes. I've done well dropping my A1C from almost 9 to about 6.5. My endocrinologist is pleased with my progress. What has surprised me is that I have't lost weight. Oh, maybe a couple of pounds in the first few weeks but that's all. I'm not that disappointed because getting my diabetes under control was and will continue to be Job#1 but I see all these claims of dramatic weight loss on low carb diets. I do not count calories or limit portion size. The calories from reduced carbs have been replaced by more protein & fat. Why am I not losing weight? I take a considerable amount of insulin and live a fairly sedentary life. Is it still all about calories or am I missing something? Thanks for your help!

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  1. Hm. Good question. I know when I first jumped on the low-carb wagon, back in 04 or whenever that South Beach diet was all the rage, I lost nothing. Zip. Zilch. While friends around me were dropping poundage like crazy, I'd lose a couple one week and then gain them back the next. Drove me positively nuts, as I was following that idiotic induction phase to the tee and was eating scrambled eggs for breakfast every goddamn day.

    So I understand your frustration.

    For some reason, when I cut out starches again a couple of years ago (but also cutting down on portion sizes), I lost about 16-18 lbs. over the course of a year.

    Not fast, but effectively gone. Maybe it just takes longer than you thought it would?

    33 Replies
    1. re: linguafood

      I've never been good @ eating a lesser amount of food than what satisfies me. There's a point where, if I eat one mouthful more or less, I feel uncomfortably stuffed or famished. Are all people wired this way? It seems that some people's appetites shut off @ a point that cause them to store minimal fat while other people are not sated until they eat an amount that causes them to store a lot of fat?

      1. re: zackly

        I've always heard that one should stop eating before feeling really full. That in a short time you WILL be sated.

        1. re: c oliver

          I never eat til full or stuffed. Only until I'm no longer hungry. But many folks with endocrine disorders never get the satiety signal or the appetite suppression that is typical of low carb.

          1. re: c oliver

            i heard that too, but when i actually tried it my weight BALLOONED UP.

            lesson that i learned: don't believe everything you hear.

          2. re: zackly

            Try to eat slower. You need to give your body time to realize when it's full.

            My man and I used to eat like wolves -- fast and furious. Once you slow down, you'll notice that you are full before you can overeat. Sounds simple, but it's true.

            1. re: linguafood

              Not always, though. But it's good advice anyway.

            2. re: zackly

              There are some people who can eat huge amounts of food and still never feel full. Me, for example. For me, it's due to my genetic collagen defect, Ehlers Danlos. Collagen is in the digestive system and allows the muscles to expand and contract. With Ehlers Danlos, our collagen is defective and allows the digestive system to expand much more than normal people's, hence not feeling full.

              If I recall correctly, this showed up on an episode of Royal Pains with a woman (I think) who was a competitor in food eating contests.

              1. re: zackly

                If you "full" sensor is out of whack, you need to use your mind. Weigh and measure out portions. Drink 1-2 glasses of water 15-20 minutes before you eat. Adopt more mindful eating (the book I mention elsewhere includes this). Actively seek out practices that might help, and give them a solid, honest try.

                1. re: Enso

                  Of course.

                  My point is that the "eat until you feel satiated" does not apply to everyone.

                  1. re: LMAshton

                    Yeah, but the slower you eat, the likelier you are to be satiated sooner rather than later.

                    1. re: linguafood

                      When I was a kid, my grandfather used to say " eat slow, and pack it tight".

                      Good advice, but I try not to pack it too tight these days :)

                      1. re: sedimental

                        Yes, you gotta keep it a bit loose to get all the good stuff in.

              2. re: linguafood

                I was skinny when I began low carbing, but extremely insulin resistant. I gained when I tried Atkins induction levels. One thing most folks don't know about ketogenic diets is that they drop your active T3 thyroid hormone a lot, and for folks like me who were borderline, that was trouble in more ways than one.

                In Protein Power, the Eades did discuss this and the need for Cytomel for some of their patients.

                1. re: mcf

                  I never did that ketosis crap, but followed the SB induction phase to a t. With zero effects.

                  My guess is my weight loss was a combination of cutting out starches for the most part and portion control. And not snacking every night :-)

                  I still occasionally eat pizza, pasta, bread, etc. when I am in the mood for those (though, to be honest, I am "in the mood for pasta" most every day), since I am not doing this for "health" reasons.

                  1. re: linguafood

                    If you ate under 100 grams of carbs per day you did that "ketosis crap." Actually if you ever lose body fat, you've done ketosis. Also during sleep.

                    I never miss pasta or crave pizza or bagels, but I make room for an occasional dessert.

                    I don't do portion control, calories, either, though I did scrupulously document my diet for years to figure out what worked for me and my health.

                    1. re: mcf

                      Well, I don't know if I ate under 100 grams of carbs, as I didn't actually *count* carbs. In any event, it had zero effect on weight loss back then, but perhaps my body chemistry has changed in the meantime.

                      Or it's simply a combination of the factors I mentioned in my earlier post: smaller portions, very few starches, cutting down on snacking, etc.

                      1. re: linguafood

                        Under normal circumstances, those changes would definitely help a LOT. When I started out, it was really gradual, I got benefits immediately, but not enough, so over years of experimentation and testing and documenting, ended up resigned to learning to live extremely low carb.

                        Now I love it and can't imagine eating starches for a meal, or even a side dish. I love the way I eat now, and in my case, it's critical to my (and the OP's) health.

                        1. re: mcf

                          This is so true! I have periodic carb up days to fuel workouts because I follow a low carb diet more out of choice and I dread them.

                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                            I know that endurance athletes have adapted after three weeks of ketogenic diet with no loss of performance. Other folks say they bonk without some carbs, but many don't eat them, they stay in ketosis (bodybuilders) by sipping dextrose drink only enough to fuel a workout during the workout. Would that work for you?

                            1. re: mcf

                              I definitely do NOT have success working out while on ketogenic levels of carbs (for me, that's 20-25g a day). My endurance is reasonable, but my weight refuses to budge. Bringing my carb intake up to closer to 75-100g a day (and reducing fat to make sure my caloric intake stays approximately steady) will allow me to lose weight, although slowly. And when I say working out, I mean an hour or so a day of heavy weightlifting and/or HIIT cardio training.

                              When I first began low-carbing, I lost weight quickly, but I also found that I needed to stay at 25g a day or less of carbs to do so (I wasn't working out at the time). I was in my early 20s then, though, and this approach no longer really works for weight loss (though it does for maintenance).

                              1. re: mcf

                                My endurance doesn't suffer at all, I actually think it improves which most studies show. However, picking a couple hundred lbs off the ground repeatedly doesn't work well on 20 g of carbs a day. Ketosis seems to improve most athletic performance except anaerobic activities like weightlifting and sprinting. There's no way to get around the fact that you just need glycogen for those activities.

                                You're describing the TKD - targeted ketogenic diet, I prefer CKD because I work out at 530am and don't want to wake up early to eat pre-workout carbs.

                                1. re: fldhkybnva

                                  Couple hundred? That reminds me of a 40 y.o. friend I had who had to work out with a 21 y.o. guy to find anyone who could lift with her.

                                  They got up to benching 225 together, and she leg pressed 800.

                                  Color me impressed!

                                  1. re: mcf

                                    Thanks, yea there aren't many women around in the weight room but when I can I try to convince them that they can lift more than they think.

                                    1. re: fldhkybnva

                                      You remind me of Krista from Stumptuous.com

                                      The person I referred to went from bored stay at home mom to competitive body builder, all natural.

                                      1. re: mcf

                                        Too bad she was bored. I've never heard of a stay at home parent being bored :)

                                        1. re: c oliver

                                          VERY self absorbed. And only one kid. I guess you never read The Feminine Mystique?

                                          1. re: mcf

                                            Yeah. Fifty years ago. In my 'crowd,' the times changed long ago.

                                            1. re: c oliver

                                              Options changed, but a lot of what was true of the experience remains. And this began 30 years ago.

                                              This is very OT, the OP deserves better.

                                        2. re: mcf

                                          That'd be my dream. Human physiology is a passion of mine. I guess that makes sense since I tortured myself with med school :) but metabolism in particular fascinates me. Actually the best part of the carb ups is thinking about the metabolic pathways behind it all and using that knowledge to time nutrients appropriately so they go where they will be most useful.

                                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                                            The more I read and learn endocrinology, the less I know! My endo is a full time researcher and academic dept chief with a sort of ad hoc specialty practice, just briliant, but even he can't get to everything, with his wide scope of research.

                                            So much feedback, reverse feedback, transporter proteins, receptor variability among and within kindreds, etc.

                                            And I'm a freak; suspect partial and selective glucocorticoid resistance syndrome on maternal side. For the most part, without any apparent outward signs but it's very dominant in everyone sharing that side.

                                  2. re: mcf

                                    My husband has been intermittent fasting for over a year now and works out (intensely) 5 days a week before eating. He feels he has more energy than when he fueled pre-meal (strength training, not cardio). I tried doing it for a while but it was too difficult to control my bg in a fasted state while working out. My blood sugar would spike from the glycogen release. :(

                                    1. re: lynnlato

                                      You're type 1, right, IIRC? Sounds like your liver is protecting you from exercise induced hypos by dumping glucose into your system.

                    2. How overweight are you? Is it possible that you are not necesarily overweight and have litle weight to lose. If you are overweight maybe could add in a twenty minute walk every day you might find the weight comes off faster.

                      4 Replies
                      1. re: SIMIHOUND

                        I'm overweight! My BMI is about 30. 5'10" 240 lbs. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm not supposed to walk or do much exercise because I have a slow healing foot wound.

                        1. re: zackly

                          That will improve a lot once you get better control, typically.

                          My diet reversed long standing kidney and nerve damage.
                          Diabetes damage can be reversed. Just keep at it, it's a marathon, not a sprint. :-)

                          I bet you could do some stretching or yoga with tapes, or a recumbent cycle with the weight off your foot?

                          How about PT, is that available to you? Will your doc refer you if you ask?

                          1. re: mcf

                            A friend has done very well since her foot injuries with sit down boxing training .

                      2. Calories are not all the same but calories matter. In general, low carb is a strategy to reduce calories. You still have to reduce overall calories this is one of the biggest myths associated with low carb eating.

                        Also it is common for many, especially women, to not lose weight for a while, even weeks and then all of a sudden lose weight - it's often referred to as "the whoosh."

                        4 Replies
                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                            I actually increased my calories 50% on low carb and maintained the same weight as I did on 800 high carb, low fat calories per day, same as research demonstrates is typical.

                            Generally, low carb restricts appetite, but not calories. But it's true that for many morbidly obese folks especially, Atkins induction levels are the first time in their lives that they find it difficult to take in enough calories due to appetite suppression by the diet.

                            1. re: mcf

                              800 calories a day is not much food. A 50% increase is bringing it back to a somewhat reasonable level which was still probably a deficit for you.

                              "Atkins induction levels are the first time in their lives that they find it difficult to take in enough calories due to appetite suppression by the diet." So calories matter? They eat less so they lose weight.

                              1. re: fldhkybnva

                                I know it's not much food, but even obese teens eating 50% more calories compared to low fat, high carb kids lost nearly twice the weight. And the low carb kids were not restricted, they ate what they felt like. I no longer have the full text, but in this study, the low carb kids ate 50% more calories, as I recall, and lost twice the weight, with better lipids, too. They were told to eat when hungry, no limitations.http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/...

                                I'm saying I don't think calorie reduction plays any role in a low carb or ketogenic diet, except for the appestat reset most folks get. But the science is there. The calories are not lower even though the appetite is, because of the fat added when carbs are restricted. Eating less or less often doesn't equate to eating less calories.

                                Calorie restriction is not required in low carb in less obese folks. Those were folks eating many thousands of calories a day extra, I'm referring only to a subset, folks north of 400 lbs for the most part, as I recall. But caloric reduction is not required to maintain or lose on on low carb, studies show.

                                800 was my maintenance level!! I didn't know I had HPA axis disease, could not believe I couldn't lose weight even going that low, so I weighed my food, documented even a tsp of cottage cheese at a time. I was on steroids and also, apparently, was busy developing a pituitary adenoma. For many folks, thyroid, cortisol, subclinical Cushings are at the root of their type 2 DM or weight issues.

                                Endocrine science is incredibly full of disparate influences, from receptor action for every hormone and levels produced, etc. So odd, but I lose weight easily in a steroid high rather than lows.

                          2. if you're eating that low carb and using a lot of insulin, you should consult an endocrinologist. They never consider it, but Cushing's syndrome or disease is a common undiagnosed cause of type 2 that is hard to control. A lot of insulin is going to make it hard to lose weight.

                            Also, very low carb does drop active T3 thyroid, if you're a tad low, that makes losing hard.

                            Some folks find that they don't lose, but if they were very overweight to start, they drop fat while adding muscle, which weighs more than fat. Using a reference pair of jeans to see if they're getting looser, or doing tape measures monthly can help, too, to check this out.

                            And you may need to dial back how much you're eating.



                            6 Replies
                            1. re: mcf

                              Isn't endocrinology the specialty that treats diabetes?

                              1. re: c oliver

                                Yes, but like all doctors, they don't get paid to think, no billing code for it. They just pile on the prescriptions without thinking about how much harm they may be doing by not thinking about why treatment isn't having the usual effects.

                                And they don't bother drilling down into the research that I and many other proactive folks read, just get executive summaries and drug company paid CMEs.

                                1. re: mcf

                                  Sorry, I was referring to your recommendation to see an endocrinologist.

                                  I'm sorry you have that experience with traditional medicine. I don't but I have a good bit of medical background and fully participate in my health care. And every doctor I've ever had has been happy that I do.

                                  1. re: c oliver

                                    How does that contribute to the OP's problem? The OP's doc is completely missing GIANT clues. And in my long, storied medical history, and that of hundreds of folks whose care I managed, that's typical,

                                    I may be forgetting something, but are you a diabetic eating low carb?

                                    The OP is not responding to diabetic medicine or a diet that controls hunger, lowers weight and insulin requirements UNLESS there is another disorder present.

                                    1. re: c oliver

                                      Huh? You suggested the endocrinologist but then said among other things "doctors don't get paid to think." So do you think OP should see an endocrinologist? OP is already seeing an endocrinologist. I suggest that this thread has once again sunk down to the level of anonymous strangers giving medical advice.

                                      1. re: c oliver

                                        The OP is a diabetic asking other diabetics who have had the same diet for longer what the issues might be that lead to lack of weight loss.

                                        I have offered low carb advice and suggested a specialist, which it turns out the OP has. Many diabetics do not.

                                        Do you have any experience as a diabetic low carber to share with the OP?

                              2. Thank you for your advice and keep it coming!
                                I've tried all the dieting "tricks"like eating less, waiting a half hour then eating more only if I'm still hungry, eating slower, eating many small meals etc. Like I said, for me anyway, there is a small comfort zone where I feel full but not hungry or stuffed. I trust my endocrinologist is up on all things related. A sharp cookie, she is a Yale grad and I think might be on the staff @ Yale/New Haven. She is very inquisitive and open to new ideas too.The best thing about her is that she doesn't preach just deals with each patient based on the reality of the situation. When I was doing nothing for myself (diet or exercise)but take insulin she dealt with that the best she could. I've had my blood tested at least a dozen times in the last couple months in and out of the hospital. Other than slightly diminished kidney function I'm OK. I used to be able to lose weight pretty easily through diet and exercise until my fifties. At 64 y/o its a different story.

                                11 Replies
                                1. re: zackly

                                  I understand it changes with age. Insulin sensitiivity drops off precipitously starting around age 40. And it sounds as if you've been using a lot of insulin, which can also desensitize your receptors.

                                  It takes 3 mos to see a complete adaptation hormonally to changes you make. So if you've been using a lot of insulin a long time, give it a bit and see if your sensitivity improves and you can lower the insulin, which really drives appetite through the roof.

                                  You might consider dropping those carbs to 40 or 50, too, and saving them for after 4 p.m. Blood sugar doesn't rise as much if you avoid carbs completely in the morning and early p.m.. Make sure to use your insulin as rx'ed for carb changes.

                                  If none of that helps and things don't get better with low carb after 3 mos, really ask your endo about thyroid and cortisol levels.

                                  And good for you for getting so proactive about your DM!

                                  Here's some more advice: get moving, even a little at first. A small walk, a swim at the Y, maybe, some light gardening, maybe you have a dog to walk a few times a day? Or any activity you think you might enjoy.

                                  1. re: mcf

                                    MCF-believe it or not there was a time in my life when I used to run 30-40 miles a week and play basketball many nights a week. I've ran a marathon in 1981 & have biked several centuries (100 miles). I just got away from sports & fitness over the last 10 years as life's responsibilities increased. Once my foot heals I will get back to exercise. I forgot to mention that my wife who was, at most, 10# over her perfect weight started eating low carbs with me. She is not as strict as I am and "cheats" occasionally eating pasta, rice, bread & potatoes. The weight flew off her.She lost most of those extra 10# quickly. Go figure! She has a much smaller appetite than I do.

                                    1. re: zackly

                                      Let me ask a very simple question. How does your doctor feel about your weight and your efforts to lose some?

                                      1. re: c oliver

                                        My endocrinologist doesn't hassle me about my weight but all my doctors stress that if I lose weight it should help my diabetes (and overall health) improve . They stress more eating a good diet, getting active & keeping my blood sugar in check.

                                        1. re: zackly

                                          Sounds like once your foot heals, you'll be able to do more. And with the good weather and better food available in the coming months, you're headed in the right direction. Doctors, good ones anyway (and it sounds like you've got good ones), won't hesitate to tell you if you're getting into dangerous waters. I'd listen to them. Best of luck.

                                          1. re: c oliver

                                            He's been in those waters for years, that's why he has a non healing wound.

                                            1. re: mcf

                                              "slow healing" isn't the same as "non healing."

                                          2. re: zackly

                                            Has she ever suggested testing all your hormonal status for clues to your lack of appestat or glucose control with high levels of insulin? If she's as good as you say she is, she won't mind you asking.

                                        2. re: zackly

                                          I believe you! Once you feel better and heal up, you know how to get fit, too, so you have an advantage of having athletic experience to guide you.

                                        3. re: mcf

                                          I was going to suggest dropping the carb intake further, too - many people who try Atkins (including me and my husband) find that staying under 20 or 25g a day is the only way to lose, although one can often maintain on fairly generous levels. I know a lot of people who had no success on South Beach because of this - even in the induction stage, South Beach allows probably 50+g a day, which is just too many for a lot of people.

                                          1. re: biondanonima

                                            Yes, not only is it too many for some folks, but it's high enough that it doesn't shut down carb and sugar cravings the way, say, Atkins induction levels typically do.

                                            I worried that suggesting a larger cut might be discouraging, though I suspect as you do, that the results might be very rewarding.

                                      2. zackly,

                                        It seems like you are doing great.

                                        Do you think your current diet / lifestyle is sustainable?

                                        I am also curious about the exercise factor. Maybe clarification is needed. My doctors have always been so rushed. It takes me a while to think about their advice and come up with intelligent questions, so, I don't get an opportunity to ask. Is it a matter of just staying off the injured foot, or do you suppose your Doc is trying to avoid *any* inflammation (inherent in almost any exercise) until the foot is healed? I like mcf's idea about PT.

                                        1. One thing that works for a lot of people is keeping a food diary, wherein you write down every single thing that passes your lips :) At the end of a week some are quite surprised that they're eating as much as they are. Also, how many meals a day do you eat? Some find it better to eat more than three.

                                          2 Replies
                                          1. re: c oliver

                                            When I did that for months, even using a food scale, I was shocked to find out that I was eating much less than I thought. And I documented everything, even a spoonful of cottage cheese at a time, when that's all I had for a "snack."

                                            1. re: c oliver

                                              Loseit.com has a phone app for I-phones and Androids. It's free. I've found it to be a great help since my diagnosis with type-2 at the end of March. It features a huge database of foods, as well as a barcode reader which makes it possible to add what is not there.

                                            2. Hi Zackly,

                                              Good job dropping your A1C! My husband is also a Type 2 D, and is in the process of trying to lose weight. This may be something specific to his body, but he found that when he began to get lower doses of medication for to treat the D (in his case, cutting his dose of glimepiride in half), he slowly began to lose weight. Now, I realize you're on insulin but I can't help but think that if you're able to continue to control your D and drop your A1C and thus, your med, dose, weight loss may become easier.

                                              In the meantime, keep up with a good diet with proteins, healthy fats, lots of veggies. And I'm another thumbs up for the suggestion of PT. Keeping your circulation active is important, and there are ways to do so that wouldn't hurt your foot's healing process.

                                              Best to you, zackly.

                                              1. I'm hoping I will continue to have the resolve that I have now and not backslide but it's tough. I miss baked goods the most, morning bagel sandwich, hot dog & hamburger buns, good bread, pizza well you all know the list it's endless. My foot injury was/is the loss of my big toe. I had an ulcer on it for several years that would ebb and flow from completely closing to about 1/4" hole. I did not know enough about the disease and because I have excellent circulation in my feet I wasn't too concerned. What I didn't realize is that high levels of glucose in the blood greatly inhibits healing. Even my podiatrist wasn't too concerned until it started getting gnarly looking. Blood tests and x-rays showed nothing but an MRI disclosed that infection had gotten into the bone and the surgeon recommended amputation or fear losing my foot down the road. This has been my wake up call. I don't want to die one piece @ a time. Now that my blood sugar is in better control I'm hoping I can cut down my insulin which I'm sure contributes to my weight. I take a combined 170 units of slow acting Lantus a day as well as 25-30 units of fast acting Humalog before each meal. That's a ton of insulin. As I said in my initial post I went low carb to get my blood sugar under control not necessarily to lose weight. I would like to lose weight so I can live a more active lifestyle and feel better but if I could sign up for living to 90 at this weight and feeling as good as I do now, show me the dotted line.

                                                30 Replies
                                                1. re: zackly

                                                  What's your blood sugar level?

                                                  I'm sure there are support groups (online or FTF) that ought to help immensely to keep your resolve strong. I also bet there's Weight Watchers that include diabetics. Go for it!.

                                                  1. re: c oliver

                                                    My recent A1C was 6.5. I typically test 3 times a day before every meal. I usually am in the 100-160 range although I do spike over 200 especially in the pre-breakfast test. Realize that since my surgery I've spent most of my days laying down with my foot elevated. I think once I can start moving around, cutting the lawn grocery shopping, walking my readings will be even better. I'm trying to get my insurance company to pay for rehabilitation theapy. I need to start @ ground zero, slowing building strength, flexibility & cardiovascular fitness. one local hospital has a great program for people recovering from heart attacks, strokes bypass surgery etc. I would love to do something like that but my insurance company told me to have a heart attack first (and I have all the risk factors) then they'll pay for it.

                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                      I'm going to reiterate based on what you've told me. Pay attention to your doctor(s). Ask her/them point-blank just how concerned they are about your weight in the grand scheme of things. Good luck. You sound like you're on the right track.

                                                      1. re: zackly

                                                        I'm with mcf on all this. I'm a type 2, on glucophage, about 7 A1C. I crave carbs but KNOW they are the devil.

                                                        I met a man once who used to be an engineer. He told me he had type 1. In his forties, I believe, he went back to school, med school, and specialized in diabetes. He said he was convinced, beyond any doubt, that the ONLY reason he was still alive was that HE DID NOT EAT ANY CARBS. He said if he was in a restaurant and there was a slice of tomato on the salad, he'd eat it but at home avoided tomato, carrots, all the foods high in carbs.

                                                        The only time I've really lost weight is when I've severely restricted carbs.

                                                        1. re: walker

                                                          Fat and protein don't budge blood gucose. And mouse research found that you cannot induce diabetes without carbs, no matter how prone to developing it the mice are.

                                                          The food pyramid turned what used to be called "adult onset diabetes" into a pediatric disease shortly after its initiation, yet corp funded academic centers keep pushing drugs, and high carb.

                                                          Did you meet Dr. Richard Bernstein? He's brilliant.

                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                            I didn't get his name (or if I did, I've forgotten it). It was about 12 yrs ago and he was here for a convention of endocrinologists.

                                                            I think you are providing great info here and I hope it doesn't get ejected by mods.

                                                            1. re: walker

                                                              Thanks. I think as long as info is not prescriptive and related to diabetes and low carb, it's going to stay up despite the efforts of the anti dieter to dieter info folks.

                                                              Dr. Bernstein is a type 1 diabetic who was an engineer married to a physician. When he sought to learn more about his diabetes and discovered the truth, he applied his engineering precision and obsessive mindset to the issue, went to medical school, then wrote a free web page and posted a book he wrote about keeping glucose levels normal online. Much of it is still up there for free.

                                                              He became a family physician who was asked by the AACE to sit on its scientific advisory committee, which he did for some years, IIRC. This was based solely on his enormous contributions to the lives of diabetics and solid, scientific information about attaining and maintaining normal blood sugars and avoiding diabetic complications.


                                                              Last I checked, he was practicing in Mamaroneck, NY.



                                                              "The idea here is to stick with low levels of slow-acting, nutritious carbohydrates. In addition, stick with foods that will make you feel satisfied without causing huge swings in blood sugar. Simple."

                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                I only talked to him less than 10 minutes, when the convention was in San Francisco. I really believe this was the guy. Such a short conversation but big impact; I never forgot his words. I'm not perfect but I keep striving to lower carbs .. it was even more crucial for him since he was type 1 from a young age and injected insulin.

                                                                I, for one, thank you immensely for the above info.

                                                                1. re: walker

                                                                  Just FYI, eating low or no carb for a T1D does not eliminate the need for insulin. I wish it did though. :(

                                                                  1. re: lynnlato

                                                                    That's interesting; I've often heard that from type 1s, that protein raises their glucose, yet researchers recently reported it does not. I tend to believe folks when they report their individual experiences.

                                                                    I know that before insulin, type 1 was treated with carb and caloric restriction, right?

                                                                    In type 2, liver dumps typically happen if your glucose from carbs typically runs so high that your liver gets a hair trigger. I never get liver dump spikes even if very active with no food for hours after rising, or after strenuous activity and no food for 6 hours,

                                                                    But IIRC, you have been keeping your glucose tightly controlled for quite some time, too? Very different diseases, thing 1 and thing 2.

                                                                    Here's the report I referred to:

                                                                    J Hum Nutr Diet. 2013 Mar 22. doi: 10.1111/jhn.12082. [Epub ahead of print]

                                                                    Effect of dietary protein on post-prandial glucose in patients with type 1 diabetes.

                                                                    We found no effect of dietary protein on post-prandial-, overnight- or late-night glucose levels in patients with type 1 diabetes. This confirms that dietary proteins need not be included in the calculation of prandial insulin dose.
                                                                    © 2013 The Authors Journal of Human Nutrition and Dietetics © 2013 The British Dietetic Association Ltd.
                                                                    PMID: 23521532 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                      Despite the study, I've read in many other sources that protein is about 58% gluconeogenic. However, with the absorption rate it could be that this doesn't impact blood sugar so dramatically to cause a significant insulin response.

                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                        Yes, anywhere from 50-58% is converted to glucose slowly post meal and I've always assumed that accounted for the reports by type 1 folks.

                                                                      2. re: mcf

                                                                        Yes, there is a T1D management movement called TAG (Total Available Glucose). Very basically, it recommends bolusing (or injecting insulin) for consumed protein and fat as some of it purportedly converts to glucose. I've never explored that, but I've read some of the studies and arguments on both sides. Honestly, I'm just not interested in complicating an already complicated mgmt process.

                                                                        And yes, before the invent of insulin, they treated T1D with starvation diets to prolong the lives of T1D's. Many folks literally starved to death. :(

                                                                        Interestingly, there are no carb foods that do raise my blood sugar. Every morning, I have to take bolus for black coffee. Why? I have no idea!

                                                                        When I have fasted for 24 hrs or more I still require basal insulin to keep my bg in normal range.

                                                                        1. re: lynnlato

                                                                          Only thing I can think of is stimulation of cortisol release by coffee, maybe? That would raise bg some, depending on how strong your response is.

                                                                          I know so little about type 1.

                                                                          I wonder if that TAG movement is why I get almost daily articles in my inbox about all the hypos from insulin dosing problems/errors? Seems to be an ever increasing phenomenon.

                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                            "stimulation of cortisol release by coffee, maybe?"

                                                                            Your guess is as good as mine.

                                                                            BTW, we got our shipment from iherb yesterday. LOVE the Ryvita Crunch!

                                                                            1. re: lynnlato

                                                                              I know, right? The crunch, the salt, what's not to love?!

                                                          2. re: zackly

                                                            Check out this well vetted site and the provided scientific citations. http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

                                                            It's also where the Lower Your Blood Glucose Flyer is found. It's a powerful tool for DM control and reversal of damage.

                                                            1. re: zackly


                                                              I don't go that high after eating, only very rarely above 120 post meal! If my glucose is over 110 pre meal, I eat zero carbs or at least under 10 grams.

                                                              In the morning, blood glucose rises much higher than later in the day. Diabetic breakfast usually needs to be close to zero carb to prevent damaging spikes, most of us have found. I eat scrambled eggs with cottage cheese or bacon, or a veggie omelet with cheese, for example. The kind of diet the Endo '99 conference research report found was best for control of diabetes and reversal of complications.

                                                              Eating lower carb and saving them for after 3-5 p.m. usually leads to much better glucose control.

                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                I've been doing the exact opposite. Breakfast is the meal I'm having the most problem eating low carb. There's not a lot of foods I want to eat in the morning. At lunch it's easy, open a can of sardines or octopus with some hummus, crudites and cottage cheese. I eat eggs with breakfast meat 2 out of 3 days but I don't want it everyday.I also have high cholesterol, very high triglycerides high BP. I've cut out dry cereal and only eat Steel Ground Oatmeal which I love, once a month but I like toast in the morning. I have one sometimes two slices of Ezekiel bread toasted. That's my biggest by far carb consumption of the day. I'll try to wean myself down to strictly one slice then maybe none.

                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                  PLEASE read the free portions of Dr. Bernstein's book I just posted.

                                                                  I hope you do that, sooner rather than later.

                                                                  I get bored with eggs, too. I often eat smoked salmon with cream cheese and capers on a *single* Ryvita Crunch. I also eat dinner leftovers, proteins only, for breakfast, or quiche, no crust at all. Or a very low carb wrap made into a breakfast pizza with mozzarella and sausage, usually some pesto. As long as it's protein and fat, it's good for diabetic breakfast.

                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                    I just got these low carb tortillas. They are pretty good. I love tacos & fajitas and plan to make pizza with them.


                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                      You can also make breakfast burritos using scrambled eggs, salsa, or enchilada sauce (cross pollination), some shredded cheese...

                                                                      If you see La Tortilla low carb tortillas in your grocery (we have them on Lawn Guyland), try the olive oil ones for home made Italian hero fillings, and the rye for cold cut wraps.

                                                                      At breakfast, see what your results are if you have only one burrito with plenty of protein.

                                                                      For tacos, I skip the shell and make a big pile of shredded romaine lettuce, put the seasoned taco meat on it, then shredded cheese, diced tomatoes or salsa or pico de gallo, guacamole, sour cream, the works. Easier to eat than with a leaking shell. :-)

                                                                      Fajitas are a great low carb meal, as long as you load up on the protein and veggies and limit the tortillas.

                                                                      Use the flyer and keep a digital or paper calendar record.

                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                        "Real" tacos are made with soft tortillas. Those shells are an American chain restaurant invention.

                                                                        1. re: c oliver

                                                                          Prior to Mr Bell's invention, taco stands were assembling tacos and frying them. Prefrying the shells let the cooks assemble the tacos without the hot oil burns. And it was a non-chain Mexican restaurant in NYC that had the first patent for a device to fry multiple taco shells at once.

                                                                          Bet there's a patent on those low-carb tortillas as well. Nothing 'real' about them! :)


                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                            I was referring to tacos in Mexico.

                                                                  2. re: zackly

                                                                    I would also recommend that you read one of the early versions of Dr. Atkins' book - the one from the early 90s is good. Lots of information about lowering triglycerides and cholesterol through a very low carb diet.

                                                              2. re: c oliver

                                                                Well, no, not Weight Watchers, he and his doctor are on board with the improvements he's gotten on low carb. He didn't ask for a new diet, he asked about low carb and diabetes.

                                                                He's lost a toe already and you want him to go to WEIGHT WATCHERS? The famous diabetes control program at WW?


                                                              3. re: zackly

                                                                That's why I'm so bullish on taking control. Dying a piece at a time sucks, it blows.

                                                                You seem to know what to do. It's up to you. I hope you keep up the determination, too.

                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                    Email me any time at the addy in my profile for more unfettered conversation about diabetes and diet. Always glad to help and to provide scientific citations for you to read and share with your doctor if you choose to.

                                                                    I strongly urge you to use that flyer I posted to figure out what your 1 and two hour post meal results and food triggers are.

                                                                1. re: c oliver

                                                                  Which one is best to make all my health issues disappear?

                                                                  1. re: EM23

                                                                    The "Eat My Glock Diet" will make all your problems disappear:)

                                                                    1. re: EM23

                                                                      I was hoping you had a sense of humor. I made a crack about the French hating Americans that caused quite an uproar a few weeks ago.

                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                          I took a CH break for a few months so I must have missed this. I want to tell you the story of my taxi driving cousin in London toying with French passengers wanting to get to Waterloo station, but I know it will get deleted.

                                                                          Best of luck with getting your diabetes under control.

                                                                          1. re: EM23

                                                                            Thanks! Those Frogs and their ilk can't take a joke, apparently

                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                              Some do- I nicknamed my French friend "Princess Frog" and she's fully embraced it, even making up substitutes to suit the occasion at times, like "Frugal Frog".

                                                                        2. re: EM23



                                                                          Diabetes. 2004 Sep;53(9):2375-82.
                                                                          Effect of a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet on blood glucose control in people with type 2 diabetes.
                                                                          5331548 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

                                                                          "Thus, a LoBAG diet ingested for 5 weeks dramatically reduced the circulating glucose concentration in people with untreated type 2 diabetes. Potentially, this could be a patient-empowering way to ameliorate hyperglycemia without pharmacological intervention."

                                                                          Ten years ago, the ADA buried and disclaimed this study after funding it, no doubt due to conflict of interest with its funders, Cadbury Schweppes, General Mills and Abbott Pharmaceuticals.

                                                                          The results have been replicated and confirmed by many patients and in research since, including a case study in which low carb reversed end stage renal failure in an elderly diabetic.


                                                                          "I think this is at least worth considering for a diabetic," Dr. Hays said in an interview. "The thing many diabetics coming in to the office don't realize is that other forms of carbohydrates will increase their sugars, too. Dieticians will point them toward complex carbohydrates...oatmeal and whole wheat bread, but we have to deliver the message that these are carbohydrates that increase blood sugars, too."

                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                            Dieticians will point them toward complex carbohydrates...oatmeal and whole wheat bread
                                                                            This is exactly what the dietician advised us when my mom was in end stage renal disease and diabetic. We followed this advice blindly.

                                                                            I appreciate the info you share on here. The more you know...

                                                                            1. re: EM23

                                                                              And exactly what my husband---two days after a stroke!!! and with uncontrolled type 2 D---was advised in hospital.

                                                                        3. re: c oliver

                                                                          No good for diabetics. Low carb and LoBag are the only truly effective ones according to objective research.

                                                                          Testing one's sugar after meals to find out what the best diet is for the individual is the only method that protects us from progressive diabetes by letting us know what our very different metabolisms are doing and addressing our needs, not some one size fits all algorithm.

                                                                          Unfortunately, those other diets require meds and the ACCORD trials have found that the mortality rate goes up for those who follow conventionally offered diabetes diets, using meds to compensate. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ca...

                                                                          "Patients on this regimen typically gain weight, feel like crap, and don’t control their sugars all that well. And that’s the standard treatment for type II diabetes in this country today. These patients are actually ‘treating’ their over medication with carbohydrates."

                                                                          It's called "feeding your meds."

                                                                        4. I felt I should post this for other diabetics to see.
                                                                          I've been taking psyllium husk fiber (generic Costco Metamucil) for many years as a fiber supplement to lower cholesterol. Last weekend my blood sugar readings jumped about 50-75 points across the board. I had just run out of psyllium but I didn't put the two together but sure enough when I added the fiber back my blood sugar went back to (my) normal levels. So if your not taking psyllium and are having trouble controlling blood sugar you might give it a try. If nothing else you'll go like a goose on a golf course. Here's one study that supports my experience:

                                                                          29 Replies
                                                                          1. re: zackly

                                                                            Or you could eat real, whole foods very high in fiber, like non starchy veggies, nuts, avocados, etc. I eat piles of them and as it turns out, about 50% of my carbs are from fiber.

                                                                            My glucose most days has a range of about 95-112, including 1 and 2 hours post meal. You don't have to aim that low, I find it easy after a long time low carbing. But that's how I got rid of painful neuropathy and then residual numbness in my feet and lower legs.

                                                                            I'm hell bent on keeping my parts attached til I'm no longer here.

                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                              It's a work in progress. Have you ever heard about similar experiences of people taking fiber supplements.It might help some people including people who eat an excellent diet lower the blood sugar rather effortlessly. I am eating a lot of fiber now, actually always ate a lot of good fruits & vegetable & healthy food. Celery, carrots spinach,avocados & tons of cruciferous vegetables are on the menu daily. My problem was/is that I also ate a lot of carbs and too much of everything.

                                                                              1. re: zackly

                                                                                You're heading in the right direction. If you sense urgency coming from me, it's because you've already had serious consequences, I'm not judging you, I just care and I know what pulled me back from the edge of that cliff years ago..

                                                                                I really urge you to read Dr. Bernstein's stuff that I posted. I have always read from others that his information on diet for insulin users, especially, is extremely valuable.

                                                                                Personally, I have not found fiber to prevent a spike, unless it's in the form of a very low carb veggie. If it does do it, it may be the amount you're using or a result of gastric slowing in poorly controlled diabetes, which you'd typically have by the point of non healing wounds and amputation.

                                                                                Keep aiming for reclaiming your health, I think you'll find that feeling so much better becomes an easy trade off for starches, especially when it saves your life and parts. :-)

                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                  When I was in the hospital recently & a dietician came to visit me and gave me the ADA menu to take home. I told her I'm already eating much better than their recommendations. I asked her why don't they recommenced real low carb diets? She said, the ADA is afraid they are too harsh and it would scare away most diabetics. So they use the half a loaf is better than no loaf strategy. But I guess you've got to "follow the money" to see the ADA's real motivations. I bet there are a lot of free dinners @ Le Bernardin, Daniel, Per Se et al courtesy of the big food industries interests.

                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                    But that's not true; the dietetic association, independently of the ADA, is much more carb and sugar intense and restrictive of protein and fat, and is under a lot of scrutiny for it's unwholesome ties to Pepsi and other purveyors of junk.

                                                                                    The ADA actually endorsed low carb, FINALLY, not long ago, as a method to lose weight and gain glycemic control, but their primary guideline is still very high carb, low fat and protein.

                                                                                    You have to follow the money in all the medical industry and the public health and political offices making the rules and guidelines.

                                                                              2. re: mcf

                                                                                For people who don't like to drink the metamucil, Costco also sells the capsules and that's what I buy.

                                                                                A long time ago I heard someone say that when they wanted to fatten up their horses in the winter, they fed them oats. I never liked hot oatmeal but have no problem with oatmeal cookies. Just try my best to avoid cookies, etc. If you travel to a country like India or Morocco, you see that they don't have any cheese and they don't have cookies, cakes everywhere like we do.

                                                                                1. re: walker

                                                                                  The folks from India I know are all sugarholics! I find their desserts and pastries, the drink lassi to be unbelievably, unbearably sweet.

                                                                                  Indian cuisine is widely varied from region to region, but they do have paneer, which is cheese. Indians who are vegetarian eat quite a bit of it, but you're right they don't have the variety and common use of cheese we do.

                                                                                  But sugary desserts aplenty. They have terribly high diabetes prevalence.

                                                                                  1. re: walker

                                                                                    I know Indians have paneer but it's not as exciting as cheddar, brie, roquefort, etc.

                                                                                    1. re: walker

                                                                                      Not sure what this cheese correlation is attempting to imply?

                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                        Crackers and crusts? ;-)

                                                                                        Nothing wrong with the fat...

                                                                                        1. re: mcf

                                                                                          Oh? I'm confused as to why it was mentioned. :)

                                                                                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                            Walker might have been thinking high sat fat is bad, as do many low carbers I know, who stil avoid or limit it.

                                                                                            More brie for you and me!

                                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                                              OH, right...that idea still exists :) Exactly! I bought the best local cheddar this morning, I might have to hide it.

                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                I was just musing on the difference in diets. I don't know why I see overweight vegetarians in India. They don't snack the way Americans do. Maybe, in general, they don't get a lot of exercise. Is it the ghee? The sweets?

                                                                                                1. re: walker

                                                                                                  You're overweight when you eat too much. I'm not sure where the association of vegetarian diet and body weight started but they are not strongly correlated.

                                                                                                  1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                    Well, that's oversimplified. My friend went from 140 to 340 eating the same 1300 calories per day when she got florid Cushing's. For others, it's thyroid, or maybe growth hormone. Still a lot of other less well understood hormones that determine how or why one gains, even without over eating.

                                                                                                    It's what your body does with calories that determines obesity, too and there is huge variety among kindreds and also life style and environment that affect this.

                                                                                                    We all know folks who eat like horses and stay slim, even skinny. I was that person, I know others who still are.

                                                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                                                      It's not oversimplified, you added a huge variable...a serious condition like Cushing's.

                                                                                                      "We all know folks who eat like horses and stay slim, even skinny. I was that person, I know others who still are." This statement doesn't make my statement untrue. These people are not overeating. They are eating enough to maintain their metabolism based on whatever hormone milieu is in the background.

                                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                        Well, Cushing's is an extreme, but there are infinite variations in endocrine status within the spectrum of "normal" healthy that lead some to gain way too easily and lose with only great difficulty, and others to stay slim no matter what.

                                                                                                        The variable I introduced was also a very extreme weight swing, but the take home point for me is that individual biochemistry varies hugely and that for lots of folks, it's not eating too much that makes them fat. Or it is, but it's impossible not to eat too much due to hormone driven severe hunger.

                                                                                                        At 800 calories, I wasn't eating enough to get really complete nutrition, but it was what I had to do not to gain. On low carb, that number went up to 1200, but that's still very low for my age at that time and my high activity level, both aerobic and weight training.

                                                                                                        I believe that at some point, calories matter, but sometimes that point is just one that folks cannot get below metabolically or biochemically.

                                                                                                        I may be over sensitive to the notion of eating too much, because I know so many folks feeling too sick to eat who gain hundreds of lbs anyway due to an extreme condition out of their control. But folks, including most doctors, treat them just horribly and say terrible things and they go undiagnosed and unassisted, written off as lazy gluttons.

                                                                                                    2. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                      Two of the "largest" people I've known are vegetarians. They eat too much.

                                                                                                      1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                        Most all of the vegetarians I know who are over 50 y/o are heavy. Is that because non-animal sources of protein are fattier than lean meat?

                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                          Not necessarily. Many people over 50 in general are heavy. I'm just saying vegetarian doesn't imply someone is lean.

                                                                                                          1. re: zackly

                                                                                                            Quite honestly, most vegetarians I know who are heavy eat an incredibly high-carbohydrate diet. This isn't true of all vegetarians, of course, but I know many who eat pasta, rice, bread or cereal at every meal. Additionally, the non-animal sources of protein that most of them depend on (beans, lentils, etc.) are also very high in carbs, so they are getting carbs at every turn. Fat is DEFINITELY not the issue. Carbs all the way, baby!

                                                                                                            1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                              I think/feel that it's less so with younger people who may have chosen vegetarianism as part of their whole lifestyle.

                                                                                                              1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                I was very surprised to find there were many doctors in India performing gastric bypass surgery (not just for the "medical tourists").

                                                                                                                1. re: walker

                                                                                                                  People are getting fatter worldwide, it's not that surprising IMO.

                                                                                                                  1. re: walker

                                                                                                                    The Indian diet is very carb-heavy, especially in those who choose to eat a vegetarian diet. It doesn't surprise me at all to see those people becoming obese.

                                                                                                                    1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                      Who's getting obese? The people who have been eating a carb heavy diet for centuries? The poor farmers subsisting on rice, chapatti and pulses? Or the new middle class living in cities, and eating a much richer diet?

                                                                                                                2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                  if you've ever gone to any group meetings that have the "over 50" demographic, virtually all of them are dominated by heavy people whatever the group may or may not eat.

                                                                                                                  once i went to an "over 50" singles party and what shocked at the percentage of heavy people. every one of them ate meat, but they were all heavy.

                                                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                    Most of my male peers (64 y/o) are still trim. They were/are athletic so they started out lean. Their wives, for the most part, have gained weight although they pay attention to their diet and exercise more. Must be a hormone thing.

                                                                                          2. Portion control is the most important thing to pay attention to when trying to lose weight. Even more important than counting carbohydrates.

                                                                                            26 Replies
                                                                                            1. re: calumin

                                                                                              This is not necessarily true. If you cut out carbs you are left with fat and protein. If you limit fat you are left with protein. It takes a large volume of protein to equal an equivalent number of calories of fat or carbs-1 lb of chicken is equivalent to your average bagel but is not only a huge portion but keeps you fuller thus likely leading to reduce overall caloric intake.

                                                                                              1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                And leading to less body fat mass and more lean body mass preservation when in weight loss mode.

                                                                                              2. re: calumin

                                                                                                Not for an overweight, badly controlled diabetic trying to avoid amputations after having had one.

                                                                                                Portion control matters, but carb control limits appetite and the need for drugs that drive it higher, too.

                                                                                                1. re: calumin

                                                                                                  Portion control has always been my problem. How do you turn off the hunger when your meal doesn't satisfy you? I was recently in the hospital and they had me on a 1,800 calorie diabetic & lows sodium diet. After I ate a meal I was like "OK, now bring on the main course". I was hungry the whole week I was there and who can or chooses to be hungry all the time? I think most people, ,given the luxury of having as much food as they want available, eat until they are full. You eat less, you are still hungry, you eat more you are uncomfortable. If being trim was easy everyone would be trim, don't you think?

                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                    I'm not trying to lose weight so this might not work for you, but I find that when I am still hungry after my low-carb meal, I eat some pistachio nuts. Does the trick for me.

                                                                                                    1. re: Teddybear

                                                                                                      Nuts are my #1 snack now since I went low carb

                                                                                                    2. re: zackly

                                                                                                      Portion control was definitely a problem for me as well before I started low-carbing. Ketosis can be a powerful appetite suppressant. I think you might find yourself satisfied with fewer calories if you were willing to try cutting carbs even further, to around 20g per day. However, even if you're still eating more calories than a dietician might suggest, you may still find yourself losing weight due to the extreme carb restriction.

                                                                                                      I never even THOUGHT about calories when I was losing weight on Atkins, but when I go over what I might have eaten on a typical day, I was averaging probably around 2,000 cals, which is many more than most "experts" recommend for a woman of my size looking to lose weight. But lose weight I did.

                                                                                                      1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                        You people who eat super low carbs are amazing and to be congratulated for your will power! But I think you are the rare exceptions. I'm struggling and feeling deprived just trying to stay under 100 grams daily and it's not about vanity for me, it's literally life or (slow) death. I would love to hear from former very overweight people who've lost & maintained that loss over years.I'd like to know what has been their motivation and do they always feel "cheated".Most people I know who lose weight eventuallly gain it back and the some...Thanks!

                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                          Honestly, it's not as hard as it sounds, and it gets easier the longer you do it. I haven't been on the 20g a day regime for quite some time, as I lost the weight via Atkins induction almost 15 years ago. I've been living a low-ER carb lifestyle ever since, but I definitely eat more than 20g a day now. Maintenance (which for me means probably 100ish grams of carb a day) is actually somewhat MORE challenging at times, since it's so easy to "eyeball" a slightly larger serving than I really should be having, or that one little bite of dessert. I have definitely gained back a few of the 60+ pounds I lost, but nowhere near all - and when I do notice my weight creeping up, I can generally get it back down through a combination of stricter carb control and exercise (not always at the same time).

                                                                                                          As for deprivation, I know that it can be difficult to give up things like bread, pasta, etc. However, in my experience, it is FAR easier to have NONE at all than "just a little" of these foods. They absolutely trigger cravings, stimulate the appetite, trigger insulin release (in those who still make their own insulin, that is), etc. Sticking strictly to 20g or less induces a very deep ketosis that really helps kill cravings - it takes a week or so of "willpower" until you adjust to it, but after that it's really not as hard as you think.

                                                                                                          1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                            You guys here are inspiring me to try a bit harder. It's great reading what others do to eat low carb. (I'm really easy to please carb wise, just give me a hunk of sourdough and butter and any kind of potatoes and I'm in heaven!)

                                                                                                            I just had two fried eggs and later will buy chicken breasts and bake them. I have that lower carb sprouted rye bread from TJ. It's ok but I don't crave that so it's here if I get desperate but I'll try to avoid it .. maybe I'll freeze it to make it harder to get at.

                                                                                                            1. re: walker

                                                                                                              Something to keep in mind when you reduce carbs - you can and should add some fat to your diet to replace those carbs. Lean meat will not satiate your appetite the way something with some fat will. Don't be afraid to eat dark meat chicken with skin, fattier cuts of beef and pork, bacon, etc. Given your high cholesterol and triglycerides I'm sure that your dieticians are steering you away from these foods, but on a low-carb diet they are perfectly fine. Cholesterol and triglycerides especially tend to PLUMMET on a 20g of carbs a day diet, even with the increased animal fat intake.

                                                                                                              1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                Good point, the fat is important for appetite regulation as well. It's a point that many forget.

                                                                                                                1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                  Except HDL, which often skyrockets. Mine doubled from 34 to 78 in two to three weeks on the Zone, which turned out to be way too high carb for me, though.

                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                    Yes, this happened to me as well. My total cholesterol always appears borderline high on tests, but it's due to extremely high HDL. My husband had the same experience.

                                                                                                                    1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                      I wonder if that is what is happening with me, very interesting.

                                                                                                              2. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                "However, in my experience, it is FAR easier to have NONE at all than "just a little" of these foods. They absolutely trigger cravings, stimulate the appetite, trigger insulin release (in those who still make their own insulin, that is), etc. "

                                                                                                                This is very very important! Even for someone who doesn't really like cake, if I have more than a few bites I start to crave it. Fortunately, my sweet threshold is fairly low so I stop sooner than others but still that's more bites of a food I don't even like just because of a chemical response.

                                                                                                                1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                  "in my experience, it is FAR easier to have NONE at all than "just a little" of these foods."
                                                                                                                  I'm with you on that one. The taste of honey thing. I can't just eat one Lay's Potato Chip. If i had a slice of pizza now and there was some leftover, well that would be a real challenge for me.

                                                                                                                2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                  Yes, most of my family and friends think I'm nuts but I do emphasize to them that I've sort of always been a low carber so it doesn't take as much effort for me. Also, with lower carbs, you're craving and need really does decrease drastically. I think you have to view it as a lifestyle change. I hate the word "diet" and when I use it I'm referring to it as "the things that someone eats" rather than a weight loss attempt. Most people gain it back because they don't view it as a lifestyle change. I don't feel cheated at all, but then again I can go without bread and rice and other typical carbs for a very long time. In fact, this weekend I had to force myself to eat them in an attempt to refuel glycogen to facilitate weightlifting and I really dreaded it and couldn't wait to get back to the usual on Sunday.

                                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                    Do you like steak, chicken, fish? Have that with sauteed mushroom and raw or sauteed shredded cabbage.

                                                                                                                    Do you like shrimp? Bring a big pot of water to boil, bit of salt, clean shrimp (buy from a good butcher) .. when water boils, dump in shrimp, cut off heat and stir .. they are done when they are pink and curl, about a minute or so. Drain and put in a bowl of ice and water. Make a sauce of ketchup (you can try to find sugarless), horseradish, fresh lemon juice. Delicious and filling. (I know, kinda pricey for shrimp.)

                                                                                                                    1. re: walker

                                                                                                                      Just FYI Heinz sells 1 carb ketchup, but yes that's exactly the idea.

                                                                                                                      1. re: walker

                                                                                                                        I like every protein and now my diet consists of a lot more of it. And i do eat plenty (I'm afraid too much) fat both from animal & vegetable sources.FYI: my nickname is "Shrimp". I worked in that industry for twenty years.I love wild shrimp. You can keep farm raised.

                                                                                                                      2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                        100 grams or close to it doesn't kill cravings for carbs. Biondanonima is suggesting that you might not feel as deprived or deprived at all if you weren't eating enough carbs to keep getting hormonal signals for more.

                                                                                                                        It's helped many folks with broken satiety signals. Not all, but most.

                                                                                                                    2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                      I've been told carbs, esp. sugar, stimulate appetite. When I eat just protein like eggs, bacon & eggs, chicken, tuna .. I get filled up and don't get hungry for hours. Years ago when I did Dr. Stillman, 8 glasses of water a day, boiled eggs, low fat cottage cheese, steak, fish, chicken, all I wanted, I lost weight. Later, I think, he let you have lettuce salads.

                                                                                                                      This is hard for me to do when great fruits and vegetables come into season.

                                                                                                                      I think that most diets that really work avoid carbs as much as possible.

                                                                                                                      1. re: walker

                                                                                                                        You don't have to be told, we all have the experience ourselves. Carbs spike insulin, then insulin crashes and your body is crying out for more food. In addition, they are easily processed. Even if you ate an entire jar of nuts and blasted through a normal calorie intake for the day, you would likely not gain much weight (assuming it's not a daily habit) because you'd wake up still processing all of that fat and thus eat less or nothing for breakfast (unless you're like many who eat out of habit and not in response to hunger). Fat and protein signal to your body that you're fed, they are then processed relatively slowly allowing you to feel fuller longer.

                                                                                                                      2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                        I am somewhat of a masochist I guess, but I just say "no, stop eating." I get the food that I have planned out for myself and that's what I get.

                                                                                                                        If being trim was easy everyone would be trim, don't you think? Our current environment makes this very challenging. Our ancestors didn't have to battle Cheetos and cakes around the office all day long, very addictive food that is not very satiating.

                                                                                                                        Also many confuse hunger and thirst or hunger and boredom or hunger and anger. Sometimes at night, I find myself wanting food so I always stop and ask "why do you want food?" Are you really hungry? I've read in many places that if you would readily eat either chocolate or broccoli, then you are truly hungry. Otherwise, wait a bit and see how you feel.

                                                                                                                        Lastly, give yourself time to feel full. If immediately after a meal you were still hungry, then give the food time to digest.

                                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                          I don't think so at all. I think most people who are eating an adequate diet, and not excessively carb laden have a satiety signal.

                                                                                                                          But that's been broken by the hormonal effects of the grain based, protein and fat inadequate food pyramid. The hormonal derangement it causes, in some more than others, ratchets up appetite.

                                                                                                                      3. Here are some wonderful salads. Not all will work for you but a number will:


                                                                                                                        4 Replies
                                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver


                                                                                                                          Those would be really good for a very active non diabetic.

                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                            And some, with tweaking if necessary, for a sedentary diabetic. Most of us here understand adjustments are sometimes needed or wanted but the flavor is still there. Without flavor, why bother?

                                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                              Sure, if you removed the noodles or potatoes and subbed steak, chicken or tofu.

                                                                                                                          2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                            Thanks, they're beautiful and now I want lunch!

                                                                                                                          3. I eat 3 meals a day @ traditional mealtimes. I like to prepare and share meals with my wife. Is it better to eat like this or eat only when I'm hungry?

                                                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                              There is no better, it's what works for you. If you are good at sensing your hunger and satiety signals then the latter might work but there's no one answer.

                                                                                                                              If you're making lunch at x time but find you're not hungry then dont force yourself to eat something. Similarly if you wake up and aren't hungry, don't eat. This is all assuming there are no blood sugar issues to worry about. However when people eat on a schedule the body usually becomes entrained to expect food at those times.

                                                                                                                            2. Just came across this, talking about the danger of low carb for type 2 diabetics;


                                                                                                                              14 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                I think his message is more that high saturated fat is the enemy.He has a undergraduate degree in agriculture and is a vegan so maybe he's got a horse in the race promoting all things from the plant world?

                                                                                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                  He does also make the low carb argument against. I just believe that this is not a one-size-fits-all diet regimen and that your doctor is hopefully setting good priorities for you.

                                                                                                                                2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                  Everybody is different--but his recommendation, that people give up meats and other protein in favor of rice and potatoes would maim and then kill my husband.

                                                                                                                                  The Dean Ornish type diets don't work for my H's type 2 Diabetes--at all. So while a nondiabetic might be able to build a healthy breakfast around oatmeal, for example, some Type 2 diabetics would get more damaged.

                                                                                                                                  I don't believe that McDougall was ever diabetic, though he suffered a stroke at a young age. The good thing about the Special Diets board is--if you're diabetic or cooking for a loved one who is--you can get cooking advice from others who are coping with the same thing.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                    And one doesn't have to have a particular 'ailment' in order to give good advice. And as I've said, getting cooking suggestions is terrific. And depend on one's health care professionals and one's own research for medical advice.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                      The only way to know what works is to "eat to your meter"

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Teddybear

                                                                                                                                        Yep. And that can be taken generally as well as specifically.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Teddybear

                                                                                                                                          And use it to avoid "feeding your meds," instead of as a signal to take more.

                                                                                                                                          This is how empowered folks do it: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/22229...

                                                                                                                                        2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                          Yes, you're right---my H's diabetes doc does not have diabetes. But McDougall is an internist, not an endocrinologist. He doesn't have to have diabetes, but I would like him to specialize in the treatment of it. Most endocrinologists would not recommend a diet high in rice, corn, and potatoes to their patients.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                              McDougall is a total nut job, like Ornish. I did Ornish; I became so severely insulin resistant on all that carbohydrate (he also said sugar wasn't harmful, because it was fat free, back then!) that I developed chronic ovarian cysts and labile hypertension. I did lose weight, because ultimately, I was too weak and nauseated to eat. I found out buy scouring Medline that the cysts were caused by carbs and the resultant high insulin leading to resistance. Turned out so was the FMS, hypertension and dyslipidemia I had.

                                                                                                                                              Turns out I became severely diabetic on Ornish. These quacks get mainstream because there are people out there who don't do their own homework and will choose a diet based upon philosphy, not science, and rely on recomendtations by crap authorities instead of researching good science and checking how reliable it is by reading it ALL.

                                                                                                                                              CSPI and Ornish taught me never to take anything for real before doing my due diligence.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                They do if they follow the primary ADA an AHA guidelines. 55-60% from carbs, you don't get that on non starchy veggies without having to stay up nights to eat them all.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                              Well, when people come back after the fact and do serious editing, it is sometimes hard to keep up :) Weren't you the one slamming the ADA? And I'm sure by now you've looked up all the references from that article, right?

                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                I still despise the ADA, they have never adopted guidelines in the interests of patients. The aggressive questioning by so many researchers of their position led to it, so many studies proving how much damage they are doing.

                                                                                                                                                The ADA and AHA serve those who write big checks, not folks who are losing limbs, kidneys and eyesight due to their lousy work.

                                                                                                                                                I've been reading all the relevent research for many years, along with knowing the ADA history.

                                                                                                                                          1. I like this report because it talks about the studies themselves:


                                                                                                                                            4 Replies
                                                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                              You know the ADA has endorsed low carb for diabetics since 2007, particularly for weight loss, right? But here's a study about the effects even without weight loss, by real scientists: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com...

                                                                                                                                              This link is for folks who prefer plain language news bite summaries:


                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                I think this statement in the study at the first link is just stunning when you consider how the dietetics, ADA and AHA folks ingore it and keep pushing grains, legumes and oatmeal on diabetics:

                                                                                                                                                "Thus, we documented that decreasing the dietary starch content in mixed meals, ****without a change in total dietary carbohydrate****, resulted in a major (96%) decrease in the net 24-hour blood glucose area response, i.e. an even greater response than anticipated."

                                                                                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                  I knew it! - another study biased by industry funding:

                                                                                                                                                  These studies were funded by ... the Minnesota Beef Council and the Colorado and Nebraska Beef Councils, ....

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                    Gannon and Nuttall are not beholden; they have also done papers promoting other sources of proteins and other products. They're the most credible nutrition researchers I've come across in all these years. No financial conflicts ore dependency like the ADA, who funded them, then disclaimed their paper finding protein, not starch and sugar, was better for diabetics.

                                                                                                                                              2. Any tricks to easing the pain of finger pricks? Now that I'm testing my blood sugar several times a day I'm getting very queasy pricking my finger. Injecting insulin with a syringe or a pen doesn't bother me but the "concussion" of the lancing device does. I anticipate it and flinch.It's totally psychological, I know. I've recently switched to the Accu-Chek FastClix lancing device which is a little better than the One Touch Delica. I also switched to the Freesyle Freedom Lite Meter from the One Touch and that is a huge improvement. The Freestlye test strips only require the tiniest amount of blood (about the size of a poppy seed will do) while the One Touch needed much more to register. That information aside I still am antsy pricking myself. Any tricks to trick my brain?

                                                                                                                                                11 Replies
                                                                                                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                  I test 12-15 times a day, on average and it doesn't bother me at all (once in a great while I'll get a zing and hit a nerve). Can you dial back the depth setting on your lancet? Also, don't push it into your finger before you push the button. Your fingers will toughen up. It's such a pain. Literally.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                    The only time I ever feel pain is if I have set the depth too deep. Also, some fingers are juicier and much easier to get a drop from and others are just about useless, many folks find.

                                                                                                                                                    My best test sites are the ring and middle fingers on my left hand (well, I'm a righty, maybe my right, too ;-))

                                                                                                                                                    Some folks recommend using the side of the finger tip, below the nail area to avoid soreness, but that's not a good spot for me.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                      The sides are the worst for me too.When I was in the hospital recently and the nurses were doing it, it was painless. This method seems primative to me. Can they implant a monitoring device that constantly monitors B/S?

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                        My pinkies are my best bleeders. Middle fingers too. My Ring fingers, however, are the most stubborn bleeders.

                                                                                                                                                        Nurses are the WORST offenders. They jam that lancet right into your finger and pull the trigger and BANG! It's like being shot with a needle gun.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                        "Don't flinch" Easier said than done. it's like telling someone "don't worry" when they have a problem.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                          It's better than losing a limb, right?

                                                                                                                                                          I was someone who'd rather take ten shots than one finger prick. I got over it.

                                                                                                                                                          You will, too, once you start reaping the benefits of greatly increased energy, loss of a lot of aches, pains and the preservation of what's left of you for the rest of your life.

                                                                                                                                                          If a nurse can do it painlessly, it means you can learn to do the same.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                            Yes, this silly hangup won't deter me from my goals. When you said
                                                                                                                                                            "You will, too, once you start reaping the benefits of greatly increased energy, loss of a lot of aches, pains and the preservation of what's left of you for the rest of your life" it brought to mind the question I've been asking myself a lot."When can I expect to see these changes occur?". My blood sugar is in much better control now (97 this morning vs 300+ before I went low carb) and my A1C is down almost 3 full points but I can't say I feel any better. Still have low energy & achy with joint pain. I used to think that if I got my BS under control I'd feel much better. Is it too early in the game to expect these changes or do you think there's something else at play here, like old age (64)? I may have mentioned it before but right after my surgery I had a couple of days in the hospital of energy, strength and mental clarity that I hadn't felt in ten years, like an awakening. Sadly, it didn't last long. Maybe it was the calorie/sodium restricted diet (1800 calories) or the fluids they were dripping in me (my creatinine jumped up). When I mention this to my doctors I get no real feedback.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                              Sodium restriction can often lead to lower energy, but it may have been the big reduction in calories and the insulin reduction that follows that made you feel better. Higher amounts of it are very damaging.

                                                                                                                                                              It's taken you years to get this bad, it can take weeks to months of careful glucose management with diet and commensurate med reduction for you to climb out of that hole.

                                                                                                                                                              Early on in low carb, until your body adapts to a drastic reduction in available glucose, you can even feel worse, until your cells learn to be much more efficient with glucose and your insulin needs go down. Make sure you know, or have a discussion with your doctor about how to adjust insulin doses for your carbs, too.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                Yes, in Atkins-lingo that's referred to as "induction flu," and it is VERY real. It only lasts about three days for most people, though - well worth it to reap the benefits. It may be different for diabetics, though.

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                        Folks, discussion of medical devices is really pretty far off topic for a food discussion site. Let's head back to the topic of food advice, please. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                      3. To the losing weight...one thing that has helped my H is to eat a salad at every.single.meal. Now, it doesn't have to be lettuce-cukes-bell pepper every meal (though he'd like that). Sometimes it can be a warm salad of wilted greens with a fried egg on top. Sometimes it can be caprese salad (he likes a couple of slices of tomato, mozz, and roasted red peppers). Sometimes it can be olives, hearts of palm, and zucchini. But he eats it at every single meal. Very versatile, colorful, and yum.

                                                                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                        1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                          Lettuce salads for me have always been "food for food" or "what food eats". If they come with the entree free, I'll eat them @ a restaurant otherwise I don't order them out unless my wife wants to split one.. Now vegetable salads I do enjoy. Ironically, among my friends who i entertain I'm known for my creative salads & homemade dressings.. I was a chef @ a restaurant in Greenwich CT a long time ago that was famous for their calves liver. I was even interviewed for an article about how to prepare it. I didn't mention that it makes me gag. Do as I say not as I do!

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                            z, I'm kinda with you on the greens part of a salad. But I've been known to make a meal from the 'toppings.'

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                              We eat so many meals atop either salad or sauteed veggies now that we used to eat atop pasta or rice.

                                                                                                                                                              Here are a couple of things to help you get over the missing pasta hump:

                                                                                                                                                              Exas Explore Asian Golden Soybean Spaghetti. A large serving (with shrimp and chorizo topping or even pesto) does not budge my meter, you might have luck with it, it's mostly protein and fiber http://www.amazon.com/Exas-Spaghetti-...

                                                                                                                                                              My new Kuhn Rikon julienne peeler makes lovely angel hair out of the firm part of a zucchini for me to saute as noodles. It even twirls on your fork like spaghetti. Takes a LOT of zucchini to make a serving once you cook it.http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-Juli...

                                                                                                                                                          2. In scanning through this thread, it appears that the biggest challenge is not really changing your eating and activity, but the underlying mindset.

                                                                                                                                                            It's common to avoid addressing the grief/loss issues connected to this type of situation. This ends up diverting energy into self-sabotaging thoughts, negative feelings, and less than optimal behaviors.

                                                                                                                                                            Most of us find it hard to focus our efforts towards what we want most instead of what we what now--that's a real struggle.

                                                                                                                                                            In terms of your situation, I've found "The Complete Beck Diet for Life" to be really useful for establishing the patterns that will get you to your goals.

                                                                                                                                                            Whatever approaches you end up using, I wish you the very best.

                                                                                                                                                            11 Replies
                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Enso

                                                                                                                                                              In diabetes, the most important issue is to change what you're eating to foods that don't raise your blood glucose.

                                                                                                                                                              And to exercise in a way that maximizes lean body mass that uses up circulating glucose.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                This past week I've tried harder to cut back on carbs and the result has been I'm not hungry and my slacks feel looser. I bought the sprouted rye bread from TJ and eat it when I'm desperate. I don't crave it so it's lasting. It's 15 grams carb a slice. What # should I stay under to lose weight?

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: walker

                                                                                                                                                                  It's different for everyone. Just go by how you feel, how stuff fits and if you test your blood sugar, how it reacts.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: walker

                                                                                                                                                                    FYI, TJ's has a sprouted rye that's only 7 grams of carbs per slice... and 5g of protein (60 cal total).

                                                                                                                                                                    Good work walker! Pat yourself on the back. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                                      The only TJ sprouted rye bread I found (and bought) says Calories: 90, Total Carb: 15 g, Protein: 5 g. Is there another there that I have not noticed?

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: walker

                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, at least at my store there is a Trader Joe's sprouted dark rye bread (and also a 7-grain bread) that is a smaller loaf than the one you referenced (we also have those ones). I know TJ's has some items that are regional but if you look more closely, perhaps you'll find the dark rye sprouted grain bread?! It's worth a shot, anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                        I found this link that give a photo and the nutritional info.:

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                                          Where do you live? I just called a TJ in SF area and they say they don't carry that lower carb one; it's not in their system. Boo Hoo.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: walker

                                                                                                                                                                            NC... aww, I'm sorry, that's too bad. :(

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Enso

                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks I just ordered a copy on Amazon

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                    I'm listening to a podcast interview of the author. It took a while to find - lots of 404 errors, but I think it is here:


                                                                                                                                                                    The podcast is Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Show. Jimmy is the interviewer.

                                                                                                                                                                    So far, I'm finding the interview enjoyable and interesting. The cognitive therapy makes sense. The diet is not the typical low-fat (fail) but, I'm not getting a lot of details from the interview.

                                                                                                                                                                    I listen to a lot of podcasts to make better use of my time while performing the unavoidable mundane tasks of life. I'll probably listen to this one again. It's only about 30 min.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: johnseberg

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks! It plays fine. i'll listen to it later. My wife scolded me to "get out of the house" so I think I'll take a drive & have a cigar. A double hit to the enviroment!

                                                                                                                                                                3. It may be "old fashioned" and not-so-sexy, but I still buy into the whole "calories-in-calories -out" thing when it comes to weight (fat) loss.

                                                                                                                                                                  It sounds like you are under medical supervision, and obviously you should follow that advice health (diabetes) wise.

                                                                                                                                                                  In order to lessen FAT on my body I have found it helpful to increase both cardio exercise (walking, bicycling) and strength-training/ weight-lifting.

                                                                                                                                                                  I combine that with ingesting fewer calories...but honestly I find I can only do the reduced-calorie intake for a few days at a time (3-4 days usually).

                                                                                                                                                                  And then there is that supid AGE thing. Arg!

                                                                                                                                                                  Why didn't anyone tell me about this???

                                                                                                                                                                  You didn't mention your age, but if you are 40, 50 or beyond the whole "slowing metabolism" thing starts to kick in. Damn it.

                                                                                                                                                                  5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: pedalfaster

                                                                                                                                                                    i'm 64 y/o and take a boatload of insulin which apparently maKes weight loss more difficult. my first job is to control my blood sugar & I'm doing much better in that department. Because I'm basicically non-weight bearing I haven't been exercising.Hopefully that will change soon. My defaulyt body is "puffy", chubby, corpulent whatever you want to call iit. if I eat whatever I want in the amounts that satisfy me I'm heavy.I've only ever been able to lose weight through deprivation diet & tons of exercise. of course that weight always came back with a little extra. It's irocic that back in the eighties we lost weight by eating mostly carbohydrates and low fat.Now carbs are the villian.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                      But we didn't; we got fat and/or diabetic, even kids, due to eating mostly carbs and low fat since then.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                        Or they ate low fat/high carb and their total calories were severely restricted. Either way, it didn't work and was bad advice eh?

                                                                                                                                                                        Less insulin is definitely better, zackly. If you shoot for a low carb diet, you'll automatically reduce your insulin intake, and will lose weight and improve insulin resistance simultaneously.

                                                                                                                                                                        Puffy body = maybe an endomorph?

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                                          Definately an enndomorph.......I've started to cut back on insulin because I've had a couple of low blood sugar episodes recently.Trial & error.Once I'm cleared to start bearing weight and exercising I hope the weight will start dropping because it hasn't yet.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                            Low blood sugars are awful and you are so right, it's not an exact science and there is a lot to figure out (insulin sensitivity, insulin to carb ratio, insuling timing w/ food, etc). The good news is that it can be done! You're doing your homework and seem very determined and that is half the battle. I wish you the best, zackly. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                  2. How do you guys feel about corn on the cob? I'm getting a lot of conflicting info. lots of carbs but also lots on good nutrients and fiber. It seems that many do it and many also refrain from eating it.

                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                      In moderation it'd probably be OK, but a single serving of corn (1/2 cup) is not much and the 7 grams of sugar is too much for me to include in a regular day, YMMV. If that's the only carb-heavy vegetable of a day it could work.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                        I would not recommend corn (or fruit, or other carby/glycemic foods) to a diabetic still very much out of control to the point of amputation and non healing. It's starch, sugar and will create cravings he's not on top of yet.

                                                                                                                                                                        Maybe in a year when things are looking brighter and much less urgent? And then, only half a cob at most, with a protein.

                                                                                                                                                                        Just my $.02

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                          I don't actually care for corn (except popcorn) so it wasn't a hard thing for me to give up. As a diabetic, you have to eat according to your meter, but if you're really trying to control carbs I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. As mcf said, the starch/sugar is likely to trigger cravings that you just don't need right now.

                                                                                                                                                                    2. Just from my experience (and everyone is different), you are still eating a lot of carbs. I've started a low carb diet by essentially eating no, or as few carbs as possible for a week or two, then slowly adding in good carbs. I love fruit, so would have one piece a day. Just an opinion...

                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Michelle

                                                                                                                                                                        The OP is a diabetic trying to heal a non healing wound and a digit amputation, using craploads of insulin and struggling with carb control.

                                                                                                                                                                      2. Any ideas why these low carb peanut butter cookies are spiking my overnight blood sugar? They only contain 1.4 grams of net carbs per cookie.It's too bad because they are very good.

                                                                                                                                                                        Peanut Butter Cookies, Almond Flour


                                                                                                                                                                        3/4 cup unsalted butter, room temperature
                                                                                                                                                                        1 cup natural peanut butter(sugar free, I use Kirkland organic brand)
                                                                                                                                                                        1 cup splenda(or sweetener of your choice)
                                                                                                                                                                        2 large eggs
                                                                                                                                                                        2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract
                                                                                                                                                                        2 1/2 cups ground almonds/almond meal/almond flour
                                                                                                                                                                        1/4 teaspoon salt
                                                                                                                                                                        1 teaspoon baking soda


                                                                                                                                                                        Preheat oven to 375F

                                                                                                                                                                        In small bowl combine ground almonds, baking soda, and salt. Set aside.

                                                                                                                                                                        In mixing bowl add butter and peanut butter. Mix on high with paddle attachment until smooth.
                                                                                                                                                                        Add splenda and mix until fluffy. Scrap bowl down.
                                                                                                                                                                        Add eggs one at a time with mixer running then add vanilla. Scrap down bowl.
                                                                                                                                                                        Last add the almond flour mixture. Mix just until combined.

                                                                                                                                                                        You can either bake right away or store dough in the refrigerator in airtight container until a little more firm. You can also pre-scoop all the dough and refrigerate or freeze what you do not want to bake right away.
                                                                                                                                                                        Line cookie sheet with parchment paper, or nonstick baking liner.
                                                                                                                                                                        Scoop with a 1 Tablespoon cookie scoop(#60), if you don’t have one,~ scoop 1 Tablespoon then roll in your hand to make ball(if you are doing this way you will definitely need to let dough firm up a bit in refrigerator). Lightly press down cookie with a fork making a crisscross pattern.

                                                                                                                                                                        Bake at 375F for 10-12 minutes

                                                                                                                                                                        Nutritional information for 1 cookie:

                                                                                                                                                                        Energy 104 kcal
                                                                                                                                                                        Carbohydrate, Total 2.46 g
                                                                                                                                                                        Sugars, total 0.70 g
                                                                                                                                                                        Fiber, total dietary 1.06 g
                                                                                                                                                                        Protein 3.44 g
                                                                                                                                                                        Total lipid (fat) 9.39 g

                                                                                                                                                                        Net carbs: 1.4 g
                                                                                                                                                                        No Foolin' We're Losin' Challenge

                                                                                                                                                                        15 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                            Maybe not, I just read that a meal high in saturated fat can also cause this to happen overnight. I had a sizeable chunk of prime rib for dinner. My pre bedtime (cookine) snack b/s was 107 but over 200 this morning. This is probably what happened:

                                                                                                                                                                            "For many years scientists thought that fat was a metabolically inert substance. Fat on the body was considered dead weight, just extra blubber people carted around. Well it turns out that fat has been masquerading as the quiet shy guy in the back row, all the while packing a considerable metabolic punch.

                                                                                                                                                                            A high fat meal can increase the amount of free fatty acids (FFAs) in the blood. Both repeatedly elevated levels of FFAs as found in chronic intake of high fat (especially high saturated fat) meals and obesity are associated with both skeletal muscle and liver insulin resistance.

                                                                                                                                                                            That resistance means that it will take more insulin—either made by your pancreas or from an injection—to move the glucose in the blood stream into the cells. There is also evidence that FFAs may have a direct role in reducing the amount of insulin secreted by the beta cells in the pancreas, although an exam mechanism for this role is unknown.

                                                                                                                                                                            Second, fat also changes the timing of the rise in blood glucose after a meal.

                                                                                                                                                                            Unlike carbohydrate, which is digested fairly quickly, fat takes a long time to move through the gastrointestinal tract. It can take 4 to 6 hours and sometimes even longer to be fully metabolized. This can be a problem for someone taking insulin.

                                                                                                                                                                            Fast acting insulins such as Novolog, Humalog or Apridra are active in the body for 3 to 4 hours. When you eat a high fat meal, the insulin may start working before a significant amount of glucose reaches the blood. The insulin often is finished working before the rest of the glucose makes an appearance.

                                                                                                                                                                            That is why blood glucose numbers can look in range 2 hours post eating a high fat meal and look significantly above goal 5 hours later.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                              No, fat does not cause glucose spikes overnight or any other time. It's a surrogate marker inappropriately misstated as causal, not a cause of high blood glucose.

                                                                                                                                                                              Edited to add: I just caught your unfortunate use of "net carbs" which is also not legit. You cannot deduct fiber, at least not all of it, about half is metabolized. Further, you don't seem to mention how many you ate or what else you ate at the eveninig meal before that.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                Is the "dawn phenomenon" something that happens in T2D's? My bg rises around 4-5am while I am asleep. My insulin pump is programmed to increase my bolus at this time to account for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                If it's an occurrence that can affect T2D's, this could be the cause.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                                                  Dawn phenomenon happens to everyone with normal diurnal rhythm. Folks without diabetes don't see a glucose spike. but cortisol rises sharply in the pre dawn hours to prepare you for the energy needed when daylight comes. Cortisol raises blood glucose.

                                                                                                                                                                                  It's also why sensitivity and spikes from carbs are highest early in the day, and much lower after 3-5 pm as cortisol is much lower, on its way to tapering to about zero at midnight so we can sleep.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                    So then, perhaps that may be the cause (at least to some extent) of zackly's bg issue in the morning... and maybe coffee too? Even black coffee can raise your bg levels.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: lynnlato

                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, every type 2 has trouble tolerating any carbs more than zero in the a.m. Protein and fat is the best breakfast, with carbs held till late afternoon and/or evening.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Coffee doesn't raise my bg, but that doesn't mean it doesn't raise someone else's.

                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                            If you're using granular Splenda, it's got a lot of carbs in it, about 26 grams per cup, I believe it is. They're allowed to say zero by using a serving size on the label so small that it's under 1 gram, therefore not required.

                                                                                                                                                                            Switch to liquid sucralose, you can buy it at sweetzfree.com. It's truly calorie and carb free.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                              Yea, good catch. I no longer use Splenda but most do not realize that every packet has 1 g of carb which adds up.

                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                              How many cookies does the recipe yield? I have that same kirkland PB at home and IIRC, I think the label states 7 calories per serving which is 2 tablespoons.

                                                                                                                                                                              I also find that ingredients labeled as having nearly 0 carbs have a negative effect on my glucose measurements. For me, aspartame.

                                                                                                                                                                              As mcf keeps saying, you really have to try to isolate the individual ingredients and test your own reaction to them.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                I would say abot 30 cokies. I ate 3. What do you use to sweeten your coffee? I've been using Splenda packets for many years. I tried stevia and didn't like the aftertaste. I did use granualar Splenda in the cookie recipie. However, I have used before making low carb baked goods without a similar blood sugar spike so I don't think it's the Splenda.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                  I use liquid sucralose (Sweetzfree) to sweeten coffee and other drinks - to me, it's the closest thing to sugar, and since it has no carbs, it's perfect. I've tried using stevia and other sweeteners but for beverages I find that they have way too much flavor of their own.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                    I got used to having my coffee without sweetener. It helps to add cream instead of milk. Sometimes I add a little coconut oil. It took a couple of weeks, but I'm used to it now.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                      I drink it black, after a while you get used to it. I actually had Splenda in my coffee last week (a kind friend who remembered my former preference brought me coffee) and it was horrendously too sweet. You can use liquid Splenda as biondanonima recommended below.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                        I've always had my coffee black and generally don't use sweetners of any sort. I am going to give Sweetzfree a try, however.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. taking insulin makes it harder to lose weight. it is a recognized problem where teen diabetics will skip or reduce insulin to lose weight. of course that is a dangerous practice.
                                                                                                                                                                                    it can do diabetics a lot of good to lose even some weight. activity is important. losing flexibility and tone make it much harder to lose weight.
                                                                                                                                                                                    staying hydrated is important for diabetics. as well as people eating more protein and salt, diabetics and the obese are more prone to kidney stones and gout. i find lemon in water useful for that. it also makes large quantities of water more palatable. because of the acid you should protect your tooth enamel by using a straw or rinsing or something.

                                                                                                                                                                                    9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: divadmas

                                                                                                                                                                                      Exercise is off limits for the OP at the moment due to non healing wound from recent digit amputation.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                        "Exercise is off limits for the OP"
                                                                                                                                                                                        Exercise was off limits for the OP!
                                                                                                                                                                                        My wound was declared "healed' this morning! Thanks for all your help and advice! I immediately went to arrange for physical therapy. I am going to take a walk tomorrow morning but as one door opens another closes. I saw a kidney doctor last week. She said my BUN level was quite high and said I shouldn't eat more than 60 grams of protein a day. I probably now eat closer to 100. I've been doing well cutting out the bad carbs and my A1C has improved significantly. .She also recommended eating a low sodium & low potassium diet. What do I replace the protein with?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                          Wow, congrats on the improvements and on being cleared for exercise!!

                                                                                                                                                                                          I have reversed long standing kidney damage by eating high protein, high fat, and supplement salt and potassium on low carb since 1998. I have above average kidney function to this day. I've had a high BUN since 1998 during all this time the improvements have taken place, but healthy normal creatinine levels. Here's an interesting report: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com...

                                                                                                                                                                                          High BUN sometimes occurs if you're eating high protein and not drinking plenty of water, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                          If you're going to reduce protein at all, consider replacing it with fats (avocados, macadamia nuts, etc are high) and drink water til you float. And increase the veggies.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, talk to your doc or pharmacist about which of your meds are damaging to kidneys, stuff like ibuprofen and other NSAIDS, some antibiotics, Tylenol, and see what your options are if any. The NSAIDS are especially damaging, especially if used often.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                            Be careful with avocados -- 1/2 an avocado has 478 mg of potassium. You might also want to make sure you're not overdoing the nuts & salmon, which I believe are high-ish in potassium, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I eat around 30g of carbs (half of that as fiber) and make most of my own food, and I actually have trouble getting enough sodium & potassium overall on my low carb ketogenic diet (google for "keto" blogs & forums and you'll see many folks on a very low carb diet have this problem).

                                                                                                                                                                                            I also drink 80oz-100oz of water a day.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I get most of my potassium from coffee, avocados, and lots of vegetables but end up taking a supplement anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Did the kidney doctor give you a list of foods to avoid? How low do you need to go?

                                                                                                                                                                                            In terms of replacing protein with fat, you might want to research "fat bombs." Coconut oil, melted butter, plus a nut butter, some sort of sweetener, and cocoa powder are common ingredients. Freeze into small cups and enjoy one or two at a time, with a huge glass of water, to see if you're really hungry or not. My husband loves these. They look like candy but aren't.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Many people also swear by "bulletproof coffee" which has items like butter & coconut oil melted into it, for extra fat. Sounds weird, but don't knock it until you try it!

                                                                                                                                                                                            To reduce protein, you'll probably have to give up some amount of eating cheese, nut butters, and nut flours. I've found personally this step can be tough!

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: kathryn

                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone on low carb is excreting potassium and other electrolytes at a higher rate than high carbers and restriction of intake causes cramping, weakness and higher blood pressure.

                                                                                                                                                                                              The potassium sodium issue is nothing like it is on the typically seen high carb, fat and protein restricted diabetic diet that keeps diabetes complications progressing.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                Good point--I hope all of the OP's doctors are talking to each other & aware that he's on a low carb diet.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                            congratulations on your a1c. keep up the good work.
                                                                                                                                                                                            i have not had a chance to go trough all the posts here yet, actually only the first dozen or so.
                                                                                                                                                                                            my elderly non diabetic aunt has PAD and almost needed an amputation recently. i feel your pain.
                                                                                                                                                                                            the best advise will come from your docs and medical care people, ask questions.
                                                                                                                                                                                            walking is great, the best, but with an injury don't overdo it. diabetics have less sensitivity and lower healing ability in their extremities. so you have to be careful you are not doing damage but benefiting. you have a great resource in a physical therapist.
                                                                                                                                                                                            this is a great time for a better diet. fresh produce is coming into season. along with fruits and berries but you may need to watch those. a salad on brown rice is tasty. i just had a salad on polenta cakes that was great though whole grains would be better. fiber does slow the rise in blood sugar. go easy on dressing.
                                                                                                                                                                                            i suspect we do know what to do, have heard the recommendations. just gotta do it. at least i do.
                                                                                                                                                                                            best wishes for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: divadmas

                                                                                                                                                                                              "diabetics have less sensitivity and lower healing ability in their extremities."

                                                                                                                                                                                              Only diabetics whose diabetes is very poorly managed lose sensation in extremities. Diabetics who eat in a way that keeps glucose in low normal numbers do not.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I've been diabetic for decades and reversed the pain and then numbness in my limbs with diet alone, no meds. My doctors marvel at how fast I heal, too, in half the time most patients do.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Most type 2s can do the same, given the right information.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. The hubby is going through the same challenge. Portion control and trying to avoid non-carb calorie bombs seem to be part of it. Getting some amount of exercise into it might also help even if it is pretty low intensity. I was really surprised how doing a light workout in the warm water pool a couple of times a week helped me drop weight.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. I'm Type 2 and using Metformin and diet to control my levels since early March. It's working out well -- I've gone from bg levels of 300+ (uncontrolled) in the mornings to 80-90. I've lost 12 lbs just from modifying my eating habits.

                                                                                                                                                                                            My doctor recommended cutting back on carbs, obviously. That includes grains, sugars, certain veggies like corn, carrots, peas, potatoes, etc. I'm not a huge cereal/sandwich/potato eater, so that wasn't too hard, but we do eat rice, indian flatbreads and pasta probably once a week. I still eat them, but in smaller portions. She also advised me to track my portions -- I don't eat unhealthy foods, but I tend to eat more than I should. So now I also measure my food using my food scale and measuring cups. A lot of people tend to underestimate their portion sizes. I measure my foods and keep a food log using MyFitnessPal so I can track what I'm eating, and how many calories, carbs, protein and fiber I'm eating. I have myself at a daily carb limit of 60g and protein at 75.

                                                                                                                                                                                            One thing I noticed in the OP's posts are a) there's no portion control, and b) the OP is replacing carbs with high fat/calorie substitutes. I noticed the OP said he is eating eggs, avocados, prime rib, nuts, etc. While those are all low carb foods, they are not low calorie or low fat. They will help keep blood sugar down, but they won't help with weight loss, especially if you aren't tracking portions and calorie/fat intake. You most likely will not lose weight if you are replacing a 100 calorie, 3g of fat slice of bread with 150 calories, 15 g of fat serving of nuts, KWIM?

                                                                                                                                                                                            I really recommend the OP keep a food log and track everything he is eating so he can see what his problem foods are, and also track carb/fat intake. Snacking on high protein foods is good, but it also has to be done in moderation, with the bulk of one's diet based on fruits and veggies. Apples and berries tend to make my bg go down, so I choose those over fruit like grapes, which makes my bg spike. I also use my log to help me decide what to eat -- for example, if I have scrambled egg whites in a low carb tortilla for breakfast, I'll allow myself to have some carbs at lunch, but if I have refrigerated oats with almond butter and raspberries for breakfast, I'll skip the carbs at lunch and have a salad since breakfast was higher in calories, carbs and fat. If I didn't get many veggies in during the day, I'll fit them in at dinner time.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I've always struggled with my weight, but it's all related to my insulin and bg levels. It's just gotten worse as I get older. Now that I'm managing my food intake better, I'm seeing good results, both in my bg numbers and on the scale.

                                                                                                                                                                                            9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: boogiebaby

                                                                                                                                                                                              Congratulations on such excellent progress with your DM! I don't portion control, nor do I overeat, I eat only until I'm not longer hungry. But I have maintained very low normal bg and reversed my diabetic damage with diet alone for 16 years now. Eating meat, cheese, plenty of fat and protein as the foundation of my diet has been the key to success for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                              But you're right that one has to keep track of quantities, most importantly, carb grams. No diabetic's diet should be based on fruit, that's a sugar treat, but my plate, by volume, is almost all carbs, with a substantial protein serving at all times for satiety and iproved glucose control.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I disagre with you about bread vs. nuts and calories as critical to weight loss as compared to carbs. Studies have demonstrated that low carb, high fat dieters lose almost twice as much weight eating 50% more calories than low fat, higher carb dieters. Fat does not stimulate fat storage hormone, is one very likely mechanism. Fat is a diabetic's best friend, then comes protein. As % of calories, I mean, not volume.

                                                                                                                                                                                              But whatever works for you is what matters most!

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                I think maybe I wasn't quite clear in my earlier post. What I was trying to say is that you can't replace a low calorie, low fat carb with a high calorie, high fat item and expect to lose weight. For example, if I ate a 1,000 calorie, 0 grams of carb, 60 grams of fat piece of prime rib instead of eating a 100 calorie, 40 grams of carb, 3 grams of fat baked potato, I'm probably going to gain weight, not lose it. My BG would be much lower than if I ate the potato, but the calories and fat are much higher. To keep both your BG at the right levels, and lose weight, you have to find that "sweet spot" where you are eating the right amount of carbs and the right amount of calories/fat for your body.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I know several people who are diabetic/prediabetic who think that if they cut out carbs, they can eat as much meat as they want. They don't realize you have to balance it out. I have one friend who gained a ton of weight on a low carb diet and couldn't understand why until he started keeping a food log and realized he was eating 4,000 calories a day, and most of that was based on steaks, bacon, and sausage. Instead of eating some lean meats and some fatty meats, he was eating all fat. He finally realized he needed to find a balance and he's lost about 30-35lbs in about 6 months (he's working out too).

                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't eat a lowfat diet, per se, but rather I eat fat in moderation. I'm at the point where I realize what my good and bad foods are, so I balance them accordingly. But I also measure my foods to make sure I'm not eating more than I think. I'm the type that thinks "oh, this is so good, I'm going to have another small spoon of it." Now I measure everything, which can be a PITA, but it also keeps me from overeating the things more of in the past. I love prime rib, but when I weighed the piece I cut on my scale and entered it on MyFitnessPal on my phone, it was coming up at 960 calories and 40-something grams of fat. I ended up taking half the piece and eating more salad. Still got my prime rib fix, but in a lot less calories. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: boogiebaby

                                                                                                                                                                                                  " boogiebaby 44 minutes ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think maybe I wasn't quite clear in my earlier post. What I was trying to say is that you can't replace a low calorie, low fat carb with a high calorie, high fat item and expect to lose weight."

                                                                                                                                                                                                  And I'm saying studies show you can eat 50% more calories on low carb, high fat and lose nearly twice the weight of low fat, high carb food dieter. If you read the full text of this study, you find that the low carb group ate 50% more calories and lost about twice as much weight, as reported here. Not the only study to find such an advantage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12...

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: boogiebaby

                                                                                                                                                                                                As I mentioned earlier, I eat until I'm sated, no more no less. My problem is that I have a huge appetite. I have been successful lowering my A1C significantly by reducing my carbohydrate intake but my appetite has not diminished one bit. At this point I refuse to walk around hungry & wanting all the time by restricting calories but acknowledge the time may come when I will have to in order to maintain a decent quality of life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you can not achieve satiety with lesser amounts of food, you might want to ask your endo if you could have cortisol testing, since it shuts down satiety like a switch, and it's common cause of type 2 that almost always goes undiagnosed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  My best advice that's under your complete control is to eat slowly, put your fork down between bites, and don't eat til you feel sated, walk away and see if you're still hungry in 20 minutes. Some overweight folks have a delay in the satiety signal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was there yesterday for an A1C check. I'll ask her to test.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sure, I just edited my post to say walk away and see if you're still hungry in 20 minutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: boogiebaby

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Congrats, boogiebaby, I'm glad you're having success in the BG and weight departments. My friend lost 100 pounds with portion control, low-fat, and exercise, all meticulously tracked on MyFitnessPal. My approach had been like yours but recently I've moved even lower carb and higher fat. Fruit, sadly, has almost complete been dropped for now. I am finally seeing some weight loss and better BG control. Last night, for instance, I had a big bowl of salad greens with crumbled bacon, a HB egg, and home-made blue cheese dressing. I was full and satisfied. I am type 2 using metformin and insulin so every day is a measure-fest using my glucometer and adjusting insulin accordingly. Curious to see what A1C will be in 2 months.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mine went from 11.2 to 8.6 in 2 months just from the Metformin and changing my eating habits. My doctor is expecting the number to be even lower next month when I go in for blood work again. Like I said before, I'm not an unhealthy food eater (we don't do processed foods, fast food, etc in our house), but my issue has always been portion sizes -- I have difficulty with telling myself that 1/2 cup of mac and cheese is enough and that I don't need to have 1 cup of mac and cheese just because it tastes good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                3. I’ve come to the conclusion that calories do count to in weight loss. I think it’s a myth that a low carb diet alone will result in weight loss. Statements like this, for me anyway, are not true.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  “50-100 Carb Grams Per Day
                                                                                                                                                                                                  This range is great if you want to lose weight effortlessly while allowing for a bit of carbs in the diet. It is also a great maintenance range for people who are carb sensitive”

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I’ve been eating a low carb diet since Jan. 1 & under 75 grams of carbs daily since March 1 and have not experienced much weight loss. I think a lot of people who eat low carb eat a very restrictive diet so they are eating far less calories because they don’t know how to or want to prepare meals. I have a friend who has lost a considerable amount of weight in the same period I have been low carbing. He pretty much only eats omelets, steaks, fish & salads & veggies but does "cheat" a lot more than I do. I'm thinking he cannot be eating many calories. He cut out an entire food group carbohydrates, and hasn't replaced those calories. I eat a lot of calories dense food (like fats and oils, nuts & nut
                                                                                                                                                                                                  flours) so I have not cut down my calories intake much since before I went L/C. Do you think that people who eat low carb diets
                                                                                                                                                                                                  lose weight because they also eat less calories than they did previously?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  49 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I maintain on 50% more calories on low carb than I did on high carb, low fat, just as studies have demonstrated occurs when compared head to head. Low carbers lose twice as much weight on 50% more calories compared to low fat, high carb dieters. That pace becomes equal once the low carbers add more carbs moving toward maintenance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    But you've been candid about portion control issues. At some point, calories do matter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    A point to consider is that how easy or hard it is to lose weight also has everything to do with hormones, as does diabetes; the same hormonal issues that cause it, can also lead to a very stubborn metabolism.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have to restrict to low calories to lose on low carb, and I do not get the intense appetite suppression that Atkins induction dieters almost always report, though I do find it much easier to not overeat on low carb. I never eat to feeling full, only to not hungry. There are other hormonal influences that mean I have to work harder to maintain my weight, blood glucose as normal, and overall health, so I feel your pain!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think that for some Atkins dieters, who had zero control over appetite prior to trying it, the induction level is reportedly the first time in their lives they had total control or even trouble eating enough each day, many anecdotal reports on that. But for those not morbidly or severely obese, it's not ultimately lower calories, certainly not in my case, it's about carbs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    We're all different. There are other related conditions that your endo could check that often cause or worsen diabetes. Yours is very well advanced, too, so lowering carbs even further might be useful. I don't have as good control with 75-100 grams, my documentation showed, so I went lower, more like 50-70 high fiber grams at most, often less. Dieting sometimes lowers thyroid, you can ask your endo to check that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, are you cleared to exercise yet? Can you cut back on the sweet stuff? Some folks release insulin in response to the sweet taste, even if sugar free.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think a big consideration is that for many on a LC diet you can eat more to maintain and eat a lot more and not necessarily gain but to lose weight you have to watch your calories.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's so variable, depending on where you start, and what else is going on. In the days of Atkins frenzy, I recall jubilant posts from morbidly obese folks who suddenly found they were't hungry enough to even take in enough calories to avoid metabolic slow down... it was the only time in their lives they weren't hungry and out of control. Those folks lost really fast but, as you say, once they got close to goal weight they had to cut calories, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Others posted sadly that they hadn't lost an ounce and obsessed over the scale even though their clothes were getting too big. They were adding muscle and losing fat, recomposing their bodies, and because muscle weighs more, it wasn't showing in the scale. For them, a tape measure or reference jeans were the way to go at first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I started out skinny but with severe insulin resistance, and my thyroid T3 plummeted on the brief Atkins induction I tried because moderate carb kept me hypoglycemic. Atkins quickly reversed the hypos for good, but I actually gained some weight due to metabolic slowdown.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Both ketogenic and very low calorie diets reduce active thyroid, so when someone can't lose, they should be tested and supplemented with Cytomel, according to the Eades in Protein Power. I needed to use it short term.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Studies have shown you can lose almost twice the weight on low carb, on about 50% more calories without any restriction on caloric intake. I know I've posted the peds study and one or two others like that. In a long term study, the low carbers weight loss slowed down to the same rate as the others as the year went on, but those diets require adding carbs in each phase, which would explain that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's a really mixed bag, depending on the reason one is overweight, or using the diet (for IR, not weight in my case), other stuff like medications as Zackly's doc has mentioned, health conditions, environmental and life style issues, stress, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I remember reading a diet advice article advocating eating the exact same thing for every meal, until you lost the pounds. For example, chicken noodle soup. They admitted that you only would lose weight due to boredom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think you have put yourself in an improved position to lose weight by shifting your calories from carbs to fat. Now, your body is adapted to burning fat. It's a good thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any further thoughts are not really about diet, so, I won't go off topic. I'll just say that I think weight loss is often given a higher priority than it deserves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not sure what specific plan you are following.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "New Atkins for a New You" book is pretty generalized but it does say if you are having trouble, note the following:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          - a male that is 5'10" should not eat more than 19oz of proteins a day (approx 6 oz serving per meal)
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - males should stay within the range of 1800-2200 calories a day and eat less if not losing weight (because not everybody is the same)
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - only 20g of net carbs allowed during induction
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - 75g of carbs daily is considered more of a "maintenance" range than a "weight loss" range
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - no more than 3 packets of artificial sweeteners
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - minimum of 64 oz of water daily
                                                                                                                                                                                                          - note that not losing weight can be caused by OTC or Rx meds

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: kathryn

                                                                                                                                                                                                            At this point I'm only restricting carbs not calories. My original goal was to get my blood sugar under better control and I've been largely successful at lowering my blood sugar levels (A1C) but have not lost weight or lowered the quantity of insulin I require to maintain decent B/G numbers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            My endocrinologist thinks all the RX meds I take are inhibiting my weight loss.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's very possible. Drugs often mess with hormones that influence weight control. Statins cause diabetes and raise glucose in diagnosed diabetics, for example, some bp meds do the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                unfortunately, I take them all

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, discuss with your doc about options. She sounds decent and flexible from your reports. If they promote metabolic syndrome/diabetes, are you getting the right risk/benefit ratio, in her opinion, and what are the options?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Someone on CH once rec a book: The Truth About Statins


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I got it from the library .. you can get a good idea of the contents by reading the reviews on Amazon. I'm very wary of Rx's side effects, like statins sometimes causing diabetes to develop and/or raising glucose in those who already have it and yet doctors try to force diabetics to take statins.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's definitely true that meds could be influencing your weight. However, if it's important to you to figure out why you're not losing weight, you should count your calories. In almost all cases, caloric intake is the single most important contributor to weight loss or gain. People often spend too much time looking at other factors while ignoring the biggest single factor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IMHO even on a LC diet calories matter. They are not all that matters but if you're expecting to lose weight with no attention to calories I'm not sure that's going to work. Yes, some can eat to satiety on a low carb diet and naturally eat at an energy deficit but it's not true for everyone and those are the people that need to pay attention to calories.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I suspect your endo is right. In my own case, very low carb means less insulin means easier to lose weight. That said, I've definitely hit a plateau after losing nearly 30 pounds. I need to do something to jump start, probably start going to the gym again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Or if you're able, try some HIIT... really bumps up metabolism. I've heard, not actually tried, but it works for my husband and others I know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What the hell is that? Is it testosterone?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: walker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              High intensity interval training. It's exercise

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yup, intense exercise. Do whatever (push-ups, jumping jacks, running, jumping rope - usually cardio and body-weight exercises rather than strength/lifting stuff) as fast as you can for 20 seconds, rest 10 seconds, repeat 8 rounds. Or at least that is the Tabata HIIT I've experienced, I'm sure there are variations.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To the OP, I don't know if you've discussed your exercise regimen or want to, but I would think that any increase in exercise could only do you good as far as boosting your metabolism and building more muscle. Activity trackers like the Fitbit can be helpful in reminding you to move and set goals and are a good reality check for how active or inactive you actually are. If you need more instruction and motivation when it comes to exercise, I highly recommend a personal trainer. They will tailor workouts to your ability and goals, and I find it really helps to have a set appointment for work outs, as well as having a supportive, non-judgemental, non-meat market atmosphere. If you're fairly sedentary, even just walking around the neighborhood for 30 minutes a day could really help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: babette feasts

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't think you've followed the entire story here. The OP has a significant surgical wound that has been slow to heal, and was prohibiting him from exercising. It seems to have improved, but up to a point he was under exercise restriction. No solution is one size fits all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: L.Nightshade

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, the HIIT discussion started as a response to tcamp not zackly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      General comment: I exercise regularly but not HIIT and I do need to up the intensity. I've been adjusting to the low carb diet but now that BS levels (hah!) are pretty stable in the new world order, time to incorporate more exercise.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: L.Nightshade

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You're right, I haven't read the whole thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hopefully Zackly can at least get some physical therapy tailored to whatever level of movement is allowed or possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: babette feasts

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You're cool; it was my error, I missed the fact that this was a response in the conversation with tcamp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Where does this quote come from? “50-100 Carb Grams Per Day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This range is great if you want to lose weight effortlessly while allowing for a bit of carbs in the diet. It is also a great maintenance range for people who are carb sensitive.” This is absolutely UNTRUE for most low carbers I know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      50-100 carbs grams a day is most definitely maintenance level for me (and most people I know who have tried to lose weight on a low carb diet). Personally, I have to stay close to Atkins induction level (20g a day) to lose on a low carb diet, and I cannot drink alcohol AT ALL if I want to lose. I never count calories when I am on induction level carbs, but if I plug a typical day's meal into a calorie counter it comes up around 1800-2000, which isn't what I'd call restricted.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I eat around the same amount of calories in maintenance, actually, but I can go up to 50-100g of carbs daily. I find maintenance more difficult than induction, to tell you the truth, because I am no longer benefiting from the hunger suppression of ketosis and eating more carbs means craving more carbs. I do it because I enjoy the greater dietary variety it affords, and because I have more energy for weight lifting and other activities, but I have to be much more careful to see that the carbs and cravings don't creep up and take over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        100 carbs per day will induce ketosis/fat burning in a person eating higher carb, but it is not low carb, except in comparison to the feedlot style pyramid. After a few weeks, one would have to drop to 50 or below to maintain ketosis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In fact, I recall the Eades saying in Protein Power that only one patient ever had been able to go as high as 150 per day to maintain weight loss, that was unusually high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Everyone is different, but my sweet spot is anywhere from around 30 grams per day (I really recommend reading Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution to insulin users low carbing)to a max of 70, but I'm rarely above 50.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Where does this quote come from?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          “50-100 Carb Grams Per Day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This range is great if you want to lose weight effortlessly while allowing for a bit of carbs in the diet. It is also a great maintenance range for people who are carb sensitive.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It came from a quick web search and is most likely authored by someone trying to sell me (the public) something. a book, a supplement or some diet regimen. It's hard to separate fact from fiction these days.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Unless you measure your results and take note of your own progress.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So true, you've got to do your homework.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I found the source. That quote appears to be out of context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The author caveats the whole thing by stating that everyone is different, by saying 90% of people will have success with that her metrics in her own experience (I sense a bit of confirmation bias), by telling people with diabetes to go for 20-50g daily, AND by saying people with metabolic problems should try < 50g of carbs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Metabolic health is also a very important factor. When people get the metabolic syndrome, become obese or get type II diabetes, the rules change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            People who fall into this category can’t tolerate the same amount of carbs as those who are healthy. Some scientists even refer to these problems as “carbohydrate intolerance.”"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Bottom Line: The optimal carb range varies between individuals, depending on activity levels, current metabolic health and a bunch of other factors."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Bottom Line: For people who are physically active or want to maintain their weight, a range of 100-150 grams per day may be optimal. For people who have metabolic problems, going under 50 grams per day is a good idea."


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: kathryn

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, and if you read Atkins, he says (paraphrased) that basically EVERYONE who is significantly overweight HAS a metabolic problem, whether it's diagnosed or not. So, why recommend the higher range for weight loss? Makes zero sense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. re: zackly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nuts are notorious for stalling weight loss and they're huge calorie bombs. Try losing the nuts and nut flours for a month.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And yes, calories matter. Eating low carb sets up your metabolic pathways to allow for fat loss but your body still has to need to dip into your fat reserves. If you are meeting your bodys needs with your daily diet there is no need to use any of your fat (which is what you're tring to lose, not "weight" since you dont want to lose lean muscle mass.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: weezieduzzit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Totally true. I also find that I simply eat more when I'm consuming "treats" of the sort that are usually made with nut flours, because I treat them as "dessert" and frequently eat them in addition to a full meal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: weezieduzzit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Distressing news. I wonder why (the nut thing).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They are like low carb potato chips. Unless you're weighing them and portioning them it's easy to eat a ton of calories and carbs with nuts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree with everything except the carb part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: johnseberg

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Eat enough nuts and the carbs add up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yep. I count them and put the package away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah, I was totally ignorant of the total carbs being so high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: weezieduzzit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nuts are my nemesis, I'm actually going macadamia nut free this week. Not for any other purpose other than to separate myself from them :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: fldhkybnva

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What about pepitas (roasted pumpkin seeds). For some reason, I can eat handfuls and still lose weight, which is not a common occurance with almost any other food. Maybe just me?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About half of the calories in a cup of pepitas compared to a cup of almonds....and they're packed with iron IIRC. Nice suggestion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 grams carb in a quarter cup, 2 grams of which is fiber. They taste nut like enough to me!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I could be crazy (don't anyone comment on that...) but I don't remember pumpkin seeds being so readily available decades ago, save for in "health food" stores. That's why I looked forward eagerly to fall/Halloween, and saving the seeds from pumpkins after carving, using for cooking etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now, packs of pepitas are in the aisles of every gas station convenience store. Kind of cool when you want a salt/crunch craving and don't want a bag of Fritos, etc (or you DO, but you don't buy them....)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's a very popular South American snack, that's why. I get mine at Trader Joes, great quality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That was my experience growing up; Halloween was awesome due to freshly roasted pumpkin seeds!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Then my mom started buying them in Mexican groceries...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yeah, I think there's way less digestible stuff in pepitas than nuts, so they just go right on through.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: biondanonima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well that's a nice visual in my mind now ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Essentially all the replies seemed to be about reducing total carbs. For us, the trick was to minimize starches (minimal-to-no breads, pasta, pizza, potatoes, rice and other flour-based products) and refined sugar products (especially no soft drinks <sugar, nor diet>, NO corn syrup products, but lots of water <usually with a twist of lime> and black coffee). We don't count carbs, but rather just avoid starches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Neither of us have immediate heath issues as such, but just wanted to lose some weight. Within four months, we each lost 15 lbs where recent blood tests are showing about 30% drop in triglycerides for both of us vs a year ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      We substitute at lot of fresh fruit (cherries, grapes, bananas, apples, clementines, melons, pears, etc) & nuts (cashews, pecans, walnuts, peanuts, etc) which do have carbs, but with the exception of perhaps bananas, don't have much starch. As an example, whenever a meal would normally call for a potato or rice side, we typically substitute fresh apple or melon slices. We have lean cold cuts, burgers, hot dogs & sausages, just without rolls, but once a week, we do enjoy a starch in moderation, perhaps a baked potato, slice (or two) of pizza, a sandwich with bread, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Eating out tends to be a problem, but perhaps that's been a good thing since most restaurant meals tend to be laden with fat, salt & starches. Eating more meals at home has probably been a contributor. If pushed for a quick fast-food meal out, we now typically stop for a KFC original breast with slaw as the side, skipping essentially all burgers, fries, pizza, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Might not work for all, but it's certainly worked for us. Minimizing starches has been the easiest and only effective diet for us.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Clams047

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Congratulations on both of you losing some weight!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For my husband's (and probably the OP, and most of us here) needs, processing refined sugar, fruit sugar, and starch sugar is largely the same thing in terms of the (bad) effects on him. However, outside of the context of Type2 DM, your method is fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Clams047

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There's a big difference between low carbing for diabetic control, which is data driven by testing which foods spike glucose, and low carbing for other reasons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Congrats on making healthier choices in your own life. I sub tons of veggies and salad for fruit, which is highly glycemic, as a diabetic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I find low carb to be the easiest plan to eat out on; we don't restrict fat, need plenty of salt. Just restrict starches and sugars, and pretty much every place is accustomed to making veg subs for starches or just leaving them off the plate upon request.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Clams047

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is great! Sounds like you've made many very beneficial changes to your diet.