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How do you feel about dogs in the grocery cart?


I went into a supermarket today and a woman came in about the same time as me and put her little white dog into the kiddie part of the cart. I asked one of the managers what that was all about and he said it's illegal for them to challenge the shopper.
A little googling had me find that that is not quite true. They can ask what the dog is trained to do as part of being a service dog. An emotional support dog or pet is not allowed in a food establishment. He said they turn a blind eye to it because so many regulars bring their dogs into the store that they have given up asking the correct legal question.

I was surprised by this as it seems strange to have the dog in the cart not on the floor on a leash walking like dogs can and should. I am a dog lover, got 2 of my own dogs which are pets so I am not hating on dogs. But I don't want dogs in the carts in a food store. Maybe it's silly of me, guessing kids' diapers/butts are no cleaner and they get put into the carts too. Perhaps I should just wipe the cart down next time and get a life. What do you other CHers think?

  1. Shopping carts are filthy....I do not think a dogs matters... but do dogs belong on a supermarket? NO!

    I always use those free "wetones" to wipe the carts handles and my hands when in a supermarket, and when I get in the car, and at home...well maybe at home soap and water...

    1. No different than a chicken.

      33 Replies
      1. re: foodieX2

        no different than a kid who is still in diapers.
        (often i see them in the cart wearing their diaper and a onesie--nothing else).

        1. re: westsidegal

          That is my feeling.
          Dogs are no "dirtier" than kids.
          Wash your hands and live your life around all other beings. So what.

          1. re: sedimental

            So deadly.

            1. re: Chowrin

              dunno why you keep bringing this up.

              cytokine storms have NOT been associated, thus far with pet allergens.
              they HAVE been associated with:
              1) the 1918 influenza pandemic
              2) the 2003 SARS epidemic
              3) bird flu H5N1
              4) SPECULATION of an association with 2009 swine flu (speculation, which the cdc data does NOT support)
              5) hantavirus

              1. re: westsidegal

                They're both symptoms of an overactive immune system.

                1. re: Chowrin

                  so what?
                  there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence of ANY association at all.

            1. re: daislander

              daislander: yes, you're so right.
              the kid's diaper keeps the stool IN THE CART even if the kid produced it a half hour ago. the stool, as runny or solid as it may be, stays right in the cart until the parent decides it's a convenient time to change the diaper.

              on the other hand, i've NEVER seen a dog poop in a grocery cart.
              unlike the kid, after the dog poops, the poop is LEFT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

              if the dog has an inconsiderate owner, the dog poop may be left where toddlers step in it and then the parents lift the little darlings with their contaminated shoes INTO the grocery cart!

              1. re: westsidegal

                yes your right the pop stays in the DIAPER or since the kid is in a onsie that probably means there NOT walking around in DOG POO. which would get transferred INTO the cart unlike a dogs BUTT, which POO came out of and is sitting BARE BUTT HOLE IN the CART.

                1. re: daislander

                  maybe it stays in the diaper and maybe not.
                  take a look at the frequency of poop-related diseases that get passed around in even the cleanest nursery schools.

                  it doesn't take much leakage, really.


                  1. re: westsidegal

                    now imagine that on a diaperless dog bottom....no attempt to keep anything in.

                    1. re: Tokyoite

                      never have seen a whole poop holding on to a diaperless dog bottom, so it would REALLY have to be IMAGINATION.

                      on the other hand i've seen leaky diapers MANY MANY times with human kids.

                      the reality is that i share your feeling about there being an "ick" factor about dogs in markets.
                      i would never bring my own dogs into a market.
                      where i draw the line is that i won't try to make up persuasive scientific evidence or make up "possible" scenarios in order to support my "ick" reaction.
                      in FACT the "service" dogs i've seen in markets have been confined (usually to their own little stroller) , have NOT had any visible poop issues, and have NOT been in the food carts. this is more than i can say for the way many parents of diapered kids manage their children.
                      still, i agree that my personal preference is not to have the dogs there.

                      1. re: westsidegal

                        They say a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human's, might be true for the other end too.

                          1. re: ipsedixit

                            I need your address so I can send you the bill for a new keyboard that I just sprayed tea all over...

                            1. re: ipsedixit

                              What're your feelings on the other way around?

                            2. re: medrite

                              there are no known cases of a human contracting hiv from a dog's mouth or of contracting polio from a dog's poop.

                              definitely cases of human to human transmission of both.

                              1. re: medrite

                                Not knocking dog mouths, but that's an urban myth. Dog mouths are not cleaner than a human's (although individual samples may vary *cough* co-worker *cough*).

                                Dogs are less likely to have the bacteria that cause cavities, other than that, dog mouths are teeming with bacteria similar to humans.

                                In fact, I'd venture to assert that the average dog mouth is more likely to have feces and rotten trash in it than the average human.

                                1. re: Pookipichu

                                  Well, so much for frenching the poodle.

                                  1. re: medrite

                                    Not exactly the same thing, but once I was sitting in a favorite sandwich shop looking out as I was munching away. Some lady tied up her dog outside on a leash and came in to order her sandwich. I noticed the dog climbed onto one of the outdoor tables and either was sniffing or possibly licking the salt shaker or pepper shaker. The leash was too long. After she went on her merry way I told one of the guys I know. He asked which table and proceeded to go outside and bring back the shakers which he dumped and washed. You kind of wonder how often this happens.

                                    1. re: Feed_me

                                      not that it makes it any less gross, but I'm really not seeing the combination of long leash and small agile dog capable of NOT knocking the whole table over as all that common.

                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                        i can imagine a beagle on a long leash counter surfing.
                                        scent hounds will follow their noses if it is even remotely possible. . .

                                        1. re: westsidegal

                                          yes, but beagles are the worst.
                                          (bonus points if your beagle goes after pot.)

                                          1. re: westsidegal

                                            Yeah, the dog probably licked the items because of the scent of a toddlers filthy little fingers all over them :D

                                            I don't like other peoples kids or animals around my food in general, but if you venture out into the public, you have to ignore the fact that there are germs all over everything. I can't see ranking kids above dogs or indoor tables above outdoor tables, etc. for germs, but I do think there is more human to human disease passed, than animal to human disease transmission.

                                            I don't think dogs or onesies babies belong in carts with the food, but I suspect that is probably less of a real concern than the other stuff that occurred in that basket (that I have no idea about).

                                            I just ignore a lot! I try not to look too hard when the 3 year old finishes picking his nose and sticks the salt shaker in his mouth and mom takes it away, wipes it on the napkin, then proceeds as if nothing happened. Such is life in public, my cave gets too dark to stay in all the time.

                                            1. re: sedimental

                                              I'd bet anyone $100 that a swab and culture would show more germs on the cart handle than on the seat, baby butts and dog assholes notwithstanding. You can't live your life in a bubble. And if did, it would turn out the bubble lining was carcinogenic.

                                              Not aimed specifically at you, sedi! Just tagging on to your musings about germs/everywhere.

                                            2. re: westsidegal

                                              imagining it and it actually happening are different things...

                                              see your own discussion about cardiac arrest

                        1. re: daislander

                          Indeed. In a dog small enough to sit in a carrier or shopping cart, the tail will be tucked underneath its butt. What's on its paws may or may not be problematic but its butt isn't, assuming it's a shorthaired dog or if longhaired, that its owner doesn't carry it around when it has any fecal matter clinging to its coat. Loaded, soaked diapers, on the other hand......

                          Not that I think Muffin belongs in the supermarket to begin with.

                        2. re: westsidegal

                          Just the other day the couple in front of me in line placed their diapered toddler on the counter where all my groceries were waiting to be bagged.
                          Damn I wish I would have asked them why they thought they were entitled to do that. I never seem to be able to muster the courage to ask, my problem.
                          I'd have loved to hear their answer, perhaps something other than 'it's none of your business'.

                        3. re: foodieX2

                          a chicken wasn't walking on cigarette butts, spit, dog pee and poo and whatever else is on a sidewalk and then sitting in your cart.

                          This isn't Paris.

                          1. re: daislander

                            Sorry-I meant a live chicken. There was a thread about a woman who took her "support" chicken everywhere. Chickens are hard to house break. :)

                            1. re: foodieX2

                              OMG the support chicken! Was that on this site? I remember reading it.

                              1. re: cleobeach

                                I thought it was this site but I searched and couldn't find it. Then I thought it might have been TWWS or Mothering. My google-fu is failing me!

                            2. re: daislander

                              Chickens in Paris don't walk on the sidewalks either.

                              I'll take a chicken from a market in Paris over a supermarket chicken in the US any minute of any day of any year.

                              (ethnocentric much?)

                          2. I have never seen this.

                            BTW...We have two 60-pounders living with us. I would NEVER attempt to put either into a shopping cart. What a mental image that presents.

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: RedTop

                              My 1 weighs more than your 2. There's no way I could sneak him in.

                              1. re: mucho gordo

                                Well duh, train him to stand up and push the cart ( or grip the handle in his mouth) or harness him and let him pull it. Just say he's a working breed and its his job.

                            2. I love taking my dogs with me to places where they are allowed and welcomed.

                              Dogs do not, however, belong in the grocery store, ever (service dogs excepted).

                              Don't even get me started on website-certified "service dogs" or their fake-ailment owners.

                              1. First reaction: ewwww.
                                I am a mother (now adult daughter)...and yet...

                                Kids (older than "babes in arms" ) shouldn't be allowed in the carts either. Ewww. Ick. Germ-machines!

                                As another posted, your best defense is probably a thorough wipe-down. Both pre-shopping and certainly after you get your products home.

                                1. Shopping carts are disgusting, the occasional dog is the least of my worries- nose picking kids, people who cover their sneezes with their hands (if at all...) leaky meat containers, etc. I wipe the heck out of them with disinfectant wipes and wipe my hands with them thoroughly as I leave the store.

                                  8 Replies
                                  1. re: weezieduzzit

                                    I do wish that more American businesses had the relaxed attitude toward dogs in restaurants, cafes,
                                    and other public spaces that prevails in Europe. That said, I don't think people should accessorize with small dogs, but I assume the baby seat in the shopping cart has urine and feces on it - and that it's NOT from someone's purse-pooch.

                                    1. re: greygarious

                                      dogs aren't welcome in European groceries, either. Marches are officially off-limits, but that doesn't mean that you won't see Madame Vache trundling her Yorkie around in a specially-built dog stroller (holds up hand: I swear I'm not making that up)

                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                        They're all over the place where I live…

                                        Thousands of dollars for a specially made dog stroller.

                                          1. re: latindancer

                                            I saw my first dog stroller two years ago. My friends didn't believe me until I walked them over so they could see it for themselves.

                                            1. re: cleobeach

                                              I saw one last weekend being used to haul around a pot-bellied hog.

                                              (I was born and raised in a pork-producing state. If it has a snout and hooves, it's a hog, and it doesn't belong in my house, and it damned sure doesn't get hauled around in a hot-pink stroller)

                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                Turns out, the dog stroller lady and I had a connection. We both frequent the same salon and I later learned the dog has several dressers full of outfits. She brings the dog to the salon. It tried to lick me once.

                                        1. re: greygarious

                                          A dog left at home is probably able to fend for itself for a while. A kid, not so much.
                                          Dogs outdoors at a cafe, fine, supermarket...not so much.

                                      2. Basic sanitation when dealing with fellow humans from a different pack?

                                        1. Don't like the dogs in the store at all (there's all that potential for leg-lifting which doesn't, I hope, apply to kids), but also understand the reluctance of personnel to get into it all. The whole risk-reward calculation and so forth. I'm also not crazy about the pigeons and sparrows that frantically flit around my local Safeway, but that's a different gripe.

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: monfrancisco

                                            How is it that people think of them self s as supreme beings. The almighty created ALL CREATURES, and we are part of the species.
                                            Animals pets played a role in the evolution of us unti this technological Age of the 20th century. I hope that you will never have to thank an animal for your rescue from a disaster? Right? Or would you rather perish. I have seen plenty time people opening merchandise and eating fruits with out permission. Even kids toughing things on shelf's or eating candies while mothers are not paying attention to their kids. A dog would most likely only pee where another has done it before. Believe me this winter was most terrible, because they couldn't get to their customary spots. So you tell me what is more preferrable. an old lady, with her companion walking to the store, or your version?

                                          2. I don't understand why the dog is even in the grocery store.

                                            17 Replies
                                            1. re: KarenDW

                                              Because their owner cannot bear to be without their precious.
                                              I have a dog and she stays home when I'm out and about.
                                              It's where she belongs.

                                              1. re: latindancer

                                                It's against the law here, not that it stops some people.

                                                1. re: coll

                                                  (serious question)

                                                  Is there anywhere it's *not* illegal to bring a dog into a grocery store?

                                                  it's illegal in every country I've ever visited...is it actually allowed anywhere?

                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                    On that matter, I only know NY. I think it's only places that have food though.

                                                    1. re: coll

                                                      :) :)

                                                      How many supermarkets don't sell food?

                                                      (I know, that's not what you meant)

                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                        I meant supermarkets and restaurants, but that's without looking up any details.

                                                        Of course pet food doesn't count, those stores are like a giant playground. I did see some major fights though, with blood occasionally spilled, so it's not all fun and games either.

                                                        1. re: coll

                                                          This may be getting to far off track, or maybe best for a separate thread, but I would think restrictions on dogs in supermarkets or other food establishments would be similar as restrictions on cats (notorious shedders). I ask because of the Cat Town Cafe in Oakland. The cafe is an effort to bring together abandoned cats with potential owners-to-be (or in the lingo of the politically-correct SF bay area, "guardians-to-be").


                                                          I understand Paris (France) also has a newish cat cafe (not related to finding homes for cats, I understand). I love cats, and strongly support that mission. But I cannot see how such a place can get away with also serving food/coffee.

                                                          1. re: MagicMarkR

                                                            Dogs shed too, arguably more since they are larger. And yes, there are non-shedding cat breeds too (e.g. all varieties of Rex). I had never heard the cafe idea, which I think is triffic. They should have them for dog adoptions, too. The Lucy van Pelts of this world wouldn't patronize either. Nor would dander-sensitive people have any interest in a cafe promoting adoption of animals to which they are allergic. Homeless animals interacting with pet-lovers is a win/win. Folks who aren't comfortable with animals being near their food or drink, choose another restaurant! No different than if you're a vegan. Don't go to a steak house, but don't tell others they're not allowed to eat there.

                                                            1. re: greygarious

                                                              The fur itself is not normally the issue. The issue is from the flakes of dried saliva that is ON the hair after grooming themselves (this particularly applies to cats)...so shedders and non-shedders alike (and there's not really any such thing as a non-shedder....only ones with shorter, sparser hair) both carry the allergens.

                                                              The more hair, the more saliva from grooming...the more allergies.

                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                My comments to MagicMarkR were to address his claim that cats are "notorious" shedders and his objection to serving food and drink in proximity to cats. Having worked in an animal hospital, an animal research facility, and having bred and shown pedigreed cats for over 30 yrs of my life, I am thoroughly informed as to pet allergies.

                                                                1. re: greygarious

                                                                  not everyone is...and we're not the only ones on the thread.

                                                                  1. re: greygarious

                                                                    You misunderstand me. I have more experience with cats than dogs, so know they shed a lot, that's all. And I'm not objecting --as my post made clear (so I thought)-- I support the idea. It was more of a query about how it passes codes if dogs generally are not allowed in places that serve food.

                                                              2. re: MagicMarkR

                                                                i love the idea of the cat cafe. they're very popular in japan too. but the major difference is that someone who is allergic or dislikes cats can avoid these places bc they know cats will be there. but a supermarket? in a cart? kind of like a vegan can avoid a steak house.

                                                          2. re: sunshine842

                                                            Sunshine842, you have probably not been to Germany because we had p-scop laws way back in the 1940s, dogs would accompany you to an out-door cafe or restaurant, in those days people used public transportation, bike or walked. The pre-requisite is that your pet behaves. They also protect you from mugging or any other un welcomed assault. think ... everything has a reason and purpose.

                                                            1. re: IAMFoodie36


                                                              Before my first business trip to Germany back in the '80s, my company required me to take "cultural awareness" training so I would not offend, by word or deed, any Germans I encountered. One of the things I learned was that Germans LOVED their pooches. (And that was fully evident in the many trips I took) But I was also counseled, to mind where I walked because "most Germans do not clean up their dog's mess".

                                                              1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                                I have no idea what you're talking about, or even who you're actually talking to.

                                                                I have been a visitor to Germany for a couple of decades now, and have taken my dog to many of places in Germany when I lived in Europe. (never to a supermarket or other food shop, because that would be, um, illegal)

                                                                If you'd re-read my question carefully, I asked if there is anyplace that it is NOT verboten to bring one's hund into the markt.

                                                      2. Nasty! I never put anything in the kid part of the cart and never put my purse in the cart at all. Ick.

                                                        3 Replies
                                                        1. re: Hobbert

                                                          I hope you disinfect yourself every day, because we too are carries of ICK

                                                          1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                            I hope everyone showers at least once a day. with soap!

                                                            1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                              I make a habit of daily bathing, thanks for asking.

                                                          2. I can't imagine bringing my puppy to a grocery store--it would be a frenetic food frenzy trying to keep her still. I don't know if a dog is more disgusting than a child's car seat carrier that is placed on the ground and moved all over the place or kids shoes when they're placed in the cart. If food isn't packaged, I have it bagged in plastic. I know it's more environmental not to use bags and I see people place individual produce in their carts but I still do. When you come down to it, you just don't want to know the whole process of the food getting to you and a dog in a cart is the least of it. Wipe or strengthen your immune system.

                                                            1 Reply
                                                            1. re: chowser

                                                              Thank goodness some common sense is good to see.

                                                            2. I guess I'm the only one who doesn't really care? Dogs in grocery stores wouldn't faze me in the least, assuming they're reasonably well trained and aren't running/jumping around all over the place (poorly raised children are bad enough), or pawing stuff like produce (ditto re said children). Then again, my basic attitude is that you, seriously, never know where your fellow shoppers hands have been either so I wouldn't eat unwashed produce in any event.

                                                              And for that matter, I'd rather have 'em in the cart than on the floor, just in case they happen to forget they're house-trained and decide to "go" somewhere in the store. (chuckle)

                                                              ETA: This is of course a completely separate issue from it being illegal, and ignored. If it's illegal, it should and could easily be, enforced. That's what security guards and/or the police are for. Obviously your municipality simply *chooses* not to enforce it for whatever the reasons.

                                                              7 Replies
                                                              1. re: MikeG

                                                                I prefer not to have people dropping to the ground in front of me, under some form of cardiac arrest.

                                                                1. re: Chowrin

                                                                  chowrin, you have an overactive imagination.
                                                                  look at any REAL statistics.

                                                                  (p.s. since my daughter is an EMT, i have an ongoing source of primary information about where and why people are ACTUALLY experiencing cardiac arrest.)

                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                    Ask your daughter about cytokine storms and panepidemics, then.

                                                                    1. re: Chowrin

                                                                      since you bring it up:
                                                                      cytokine storms have NOT been associated, thus far with pet allergens.
                                                                      they HAVE been associated with:
                                                                      1) the 1918 influenza pandemic
                                                                      2) the 2003 SARS epidemic
                                                                      3) bird flu H5N1
                                                                      4) SPECULATION of an association with 2009 swine flu (speculation, which the cdc data does NOT support)
                                                                      5) hantavirus

                                                                      so, chowrin, maybe it's time to take a refresher course on this stuff. . . . . .

                                                                      1. re: Chowrin

                                                                        Which has what on earth to do with pet allergies?

                                                                  2. re: MikeG

                                                                    thank you for your statement. If we are to become more RRR conscientious, walking to the store with your dog is one incentive to exercise. When had a boxer, he would wait outside for me. People are unlikely to toiugh him. But my BichonFreese (rescue dogs) are not left outside. Dops get stolen and sold to laboratories for testing.
                                                                    What about all the cigarette butts littering the entrance ways of buildings/stores and the lingering smell or nicotine. Is that more expectable. Sometimes I hold my breath entering a store.

                                                                    1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                                      Here in the US, cigarettes and butts are no longer the norm. Getting hard to remember when they were, even though I grew up with it.

                                                                  3. Funny you should ask.

                                                                    I live in a part of LA whose citizens feel very entitled when it comes to their dogs. People take their dogs with them everywhere…little tiny dogs in their handbags, dogs off leash(there's a strict code-enforcement law that's not enforced unless there's a officer on the spot), dogs in Starbucks, dogs in the food market, dogs in the pharmacy, dogs hidden in their bags in restaurants…anywhere and everywhere.
                                                                    Today I watched as 3 dog owners brought their dogs into a brand new pharmacy in my neighborhood…all of them on leash walking around on the floor. I watched as one of them urinated in the cosmetics department where I was shopping.
                                                                    When I'd had enough and went to the manager to ask them about the 'health violation' they were enabling, the manager told me the health department comes in on a regular basis and confronts those walking their dogs in the store. The customers tell them, essentially, to eff off and along their merry way they go. Apparently there's nothing they can do to cite them, ticket them, etc. It's an unenforceable law.
                                                                    I have no idea where the public is supposed to turn. It simply grosses me out.
                                                                    When the management, as she told me, asks to see their 'disability, special service license' they tell them 'it's at home' and the discussion ends.

                                                                    33 Replies
                                                                    1. re: latindancer

                                                                      I used to do some outside work at various Petcos, where of course dogs were welcome. It was plain to see their "Petco, where your pet goes" motto was probably based on the bathroom habits of said pets. They had cleanup stations throughout the store, but as often as not the pet parents just left it where it fell.

                                                                      1. re: coll

                                                                        I simply cannot wrap my head around how people can do that.

                                                                        Every article of clothing I own has a grocery bag in the pocket for exactly that use.

                                                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                                                          I felt bad for the employees, they would have to clean it up instead. All part of the job.

                                                                          The fact that each store has several prominent displays with paper towels, plastic bags, a dedicated garbage bin and a sanitizer spray bottle didn't mean anything to most customers. Guess once they saw the employees doing it, they figured it was in their job description!

                                                                          1. re: coll

                                                                            even in my neighborhood, there's been a sudden blossoming of signs saying "if your dog poops on my yard, CLEAN IT UP!"

                                                                            We clean up after ours without exception....but I just don't get people who would let their dog leave a big pile on someone else's front yard, let along on a city sidewalk or in a store. (even on the rare occasion I didn't have a bag, I've been known to circle back once I found one!)

                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                              We've been known to drive to the dump site- we take the dogs on some rather long walks and I get itchy if I can't get back to pick up the poo asap.
                                                                              I have noticed more "curb your dog" signs, too. Even people who own dogs.
                                                                              Shame you actually have to remind folks to clean up.

                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                I have a neighbor that not only lets them poop in our yard, but happily waves at me while the dogs are doing it. If I could only afford a big tall fence.

                                                                                1. re: coll

                                                                                  Maybe when she's waiving, you can drape a plastic bag over her hand?

                                                                                  1. re: monavano

                                                                                    Or maybe build a little sanitary station by the driveway, ala Petco? Every time I see it, I wish I knew the right thing to say. I'll have to work on something other than cursing at him, which is my first instinct. But since it's a "friendly" neighborhood, I can't do that either.

                                                                                    And the funny thing is, he is a retired supermarket manager, just to bring this all full circle!

                                                                                    1. re: coll

                                                                                      How about one of these?

                                                                                      1. re: grampart

                                                                                        OMG the people that live next door to him have that exact thing on the lawn! Since she has five little dogs, I thought she was just being humorous, but now that you mention it....wonder if I can get the whole street to put them up, maybe then he'd get the message. I'm not the only one with the issue around here.

                                                                                        1. re: coll

                                                                                          We live in town and my husband goes bonkers when people don't clean up after their dogs. He confronts them if he sees them. He was on a man/dog hunt for an offender last summer and put up a sign about it.

                                                                                          1. re: cleobeach

                                                                                            Ah, my husband used to be just like that!

                                                                                            1. re: coll

                                                                                              How did you break him of the habit?

                                                                                              1. re: cleobeach

                                                                                                I didn't, he has a medical issue now. Ironic really, because his big mouth was his claim to fame ;-) He was so funny when he was mad! And believe me, he had had words with this guy back then. Which makes the smile and wave now even worse! He knows what he's doing.

                                                                                            2. re: cleobeach

                                                                                              i have two dogs and I, too, go bonkers.
                                                                                              people who don't behave responsibly RUIN IT for all of us that do.
                                                                                              when i walk my dogs in the morning, i normally pick up the waste left behind by the scofflaws because i don't want my pet-free neighbors to generalize and to think that we doglovers are all awful.

                                                                                          2. re: grampart

                                                                                            That's a popular model! Simple. Gets the message across.

                                                                                            1. re: grampart

                                                                                              I used to own this thing!! Years ago, a wacky neighbor that seemed never change out of her pajamas let her dog crap all over my yard. My husband said it was passive aggressive, I just thought it was a cute lawn ornament.

                                                                                              1. re: grampart

                                                                                                There is one of those in my neighborhood. They left it up in the snow, it was covered, I tripped and broke it. I didn't confess.

                                                                                                1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                  Hopefully you didn't trip on it while your dog was pooping in the yard ;-)

                                                                                                  1. re: coll

                                                                                                    Actually, yes! I was stepping over to pick up a poop. It was in the grassy strip between sidewalk and street which in my area is public property tho commonly viewed as private.

                                                                                        2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                          Where I live, there's an ordinance on the books that requires owners walking dogs to clean up any poop dropped by their pets. A flurry of tickets right after adoption, brought almost 100% compliance, continuing to this day.

                                                                                          1. re: RedTop

                                                                                            I know they do that in NYC, maybe I should check town code here and report him...anonymously of course!

                                                                                            1. re: coll

                                                                                              I swear that I recently heard that you can send a "sample" to a lab and find the pooper.
                                                                                              I forget what it's called- a clever name, but I can't remember.

                                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                                Wonder how much that costs! But I KNOW who's pooping, I see it with my own eyes. Just at a loss for words.

                                                                                              2. re: coll

                                                                                                That's probably better than the first two ideas I had, which were leaving a flaming bag of dog poop on his porch, and turning your hose on him and his little dog too.

                                                                                                1. re: ratgirlagogo

                                                                                                  Oh the flaming bag came to mind too. I would laugh gleefully.

                                                                                            2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                              Well, of course, then you have those morons who think their dog's well-served by letting them run free through everyone's yard because they get to feel 'freedom', as I've been told.
                                                                                              When the dog does that they're bound to mark their territories or leave a big pile while their stupid owner is waiting for their darling to return.
                                                                                              Usually these owners travel in packs so they're busy talking while their dog does their dirty work.
                                                                                              Most of the time these owners are from different neighborhoods so why would they care if their dog dirties anyone else's garden?

                                                                                              1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                i agree with you completely except that i also see this happening with individuals who are not in packs.
                                                                                                irresponsible, inconsiderate, people.
                                                                                                they ruin it for all the good doglovers.

                                                                                          2. re: sunshine842


                                                                                            It happens at the Petco down the street where I live.
                                                                                            Their maids/nannies aren't behind them to clean it up so there it sits for the employees to do it.

                                                                                          3. re: coll

                                                                                            Yup, I've learned never to buy anything on the bottom shelves at Petco or Petsmart. Once saw a dog soak a couple expensive rodent habitats while the owner looked the other way. And the bf had a coworker who would purposely take his dog to the local Petco during inclement weather " for a walk" so avoid the clean up.

                                                                                            My opinion of dogs in public (stores, parks, restaurants, airports, etc) is I don't want it touching me without my permission. They can go wherever as long as they are following the laws. And indoors I don't want to hear them or trip over them.

                                                                                          4. re: latindancer

                                                                                            It grosses me out too! You must live in my neighborhood! People drag their dogs everywhere! I'm not sure how much attention they pay to their dogs considering their eyes are focused on their smart phones at all times!

                                                                                            Today we had a nasty earthquake, aka the Shamrock Shake, and my cat went crazy! Maybe I should start taking her everywhere I go. I'm certain she'd rather be in carrier in a store than curled up on my bed with the sun streaming in through the window.

                                                                                            Store management does not want to bother confronting people unless they're shoplifting or doing some act that directly costs the company money. The convenience and/or health of other customers is irrelevant.

                                                                                            1. re: Kate is always hungry

                                                                                              cats are simply not as social as dogs -- and you'd stress her out by "dragging her everywhere".

                                                                                              1. re: Kate is always hungry

                                                                                                Yes, I think we live in the same neighborhood :).

                                                                                            2. Totally unnecessary unless the dog is a service dog.

                                                                                              Let the record show that I LOVE dogs and am currently sitting next to my 60lb mutt... no dog hate here, just a major dislike for dogs getting dragged to places they don't need to be!

                                                                                              1. Gross. Dogs/pets should not be allowed inside the supermarket. Same holds for restaurants

                                                                                                1. I would rather the dog be in the grocery store then locked inside the car. Even with windows cracked in the summer many pets die as a result of being left in the car. Ideally they should be left at home, but I am still happier seeing them anywhere then locked in a car.

                                                                                                  The sanitation of it doesn't bother me, there are more human to human contaminations that I will get from the cart then canine to human contaminations.

                                                                                                  54 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: TeRReT

                                                                                                    A dog doesn't belong left in a car OR in a market where there's food being offered.
                                                                                                    Both are code violations in the state of California, one being a potentially serious health issue.
                                                                                                    Human/human or canine/human contaminations are potentially serious however nobody can enforce potential human/human contaminations.
                                                                                                    However, a dog?
                                                                                                    It's blatant disregard for the law.

                                                                                                    1. re: TeRReT

                                                                                                      TeRRet: let's not forget the e coli and salmonella contaminations that come from the products that the supermarket is SELLING.

                                                                                                      1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                        I am pretty sure more people are allergic to dogs than babies. In addition, if there is contamination in the supermarket products why contribute further to it by bringing in the factor of pets?

                                                                                                        1. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                          pet allergens are everywhere.
                                                                                                          they are carried into every environment by the people that come into contact with the pet.
                                                                                                          they abound in hospitals, planes, doctor's offices, schools, etc.
                                                                                                          in particular, cat allergens are even smaller than dust mite allergens.
                                                                                                          there is no escaping them unless you live in a "clean room."
                                                                                                          Approximately 75% of cat dander particles are 5 to 10 microns and 25% are 2.5 microns or smaller. At that size particles do not readily settle out of the air and tend to remain suspended for long times. They are also easily disturbed and made to become airborne or aerosolized.

                                                                                                          the allergen card, imho, is completely nonsensical.
                                                                                                          in terms of potential sources of dangerous allergic reactions in a supermarket, you can find much more likely culprits than pet allergens.

                                                                                                          1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                            They maybe everywhere, but why contribute more to it in a closed environment?
                                                                                                            A grocer is no place for a dog, cat, parrot, tortoise or any sort of pet. Plus, not everyone is as fond of Rover as the owners may be, why do it? Should the other people take their shopping elsewhere? It seems selfish to be set on taking a dog somewhere where they could potentially be an unwelcome presence. IMHO

                                                                                                            1. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                              agreed. Pet dander is everywhere and you can't avoid it however, allowing a dog in a shopping cart is a big no. I worked with a woman who would go into asthmatic episodes if she was directly in contact with a dog. I have never heard of that happening after a contact with a baby. yes, i've heard of baby haters tho ;)

                                                                                                              My whole foods has a safe dog area in front where the owner can safely leave their dog tied while shopping. and as someone else mentioned, a dog being left at home is a lot better than leaving a baby alone at home for an hour. not to mention the legalities...

                                                                                                              1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                if the test we are going to use is you "knowing a woman who would go into asthmatic episodes" then, supermarkets should be required to forego selling peanut products and many other food allergens.

                                                                                                                imho, your "knowing" a person with allergies is not a reasonable standard.

                                                                                                                1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                  Not the same. There are (obvious ) reasons to expect the presence of peanuts in a grocery store. The presence of dogs in a grocery store is not reasonably related to the grocery store's business, and it is not unreasonable to expect a dog-free environment in a food market, excepting the occasional service dog. Your dismissal of allergies as as legitimate problem is self-serving.

                                                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                    hey, look. my son is contact allergic to peanuts and all tree nuts. He comes with me to the store and I don't think stores should stop selling nuts. they sell it in these open bins and grind your own nut butter areas look like sh*t hit the fan, literally. but people eat nuts and they're good for you. i know i can't tell people that i don't know from eating nuts around us. it's life. all we can do on our part is prevent and avoid. but the dog in the store is a whole other ball game. and in shopping carts? not everyone likes dogs. many of them are yappy, slobbery and don't understand personal space. and it's clear, westsidegal, that you don't like babies and believe dogs have a bigger right to be pushed around in carts in a market that's made for humans. that's ok too. we can agree to disagree.

                                                                                                                  2. re: trolley

                                                                                                                    How does the asthmatic individual not react to her allergen as she strolls past the*safe dog* area @ WF's?

                                                                                                                    1. re: MamasCooking

                                                                                                                      the dog area is outside. you can enter this WF by 3 entrances. you can easily avoid this dog area.

                                                                                                                      1. re: MamasCooking

                                                                                                                        I wish there was a safe dog area at my local WF. Sometimes I stop there when I'm out on foot with my dogs and they get tied to a trash can abutting a busy street. There is bike parking but no dog parking.

                                                                                                                        1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                          The dog area is very cute. Its has a water feature and free dog biscuits. it's a little park area coincidentally right next to a mini water park for kids. so yes! kids and dogs are grouped together here. they're equals!! ;) This is probably one of the only WF that has this. This is the magic of Boulder, CO. Kids and dogs get equal rights as adults.

                                                                                                                          1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                            There is no safe (from theft or harm) tie up area for a dog when you leave it alone to shop.
                                                                                                                            It's sad, but true.
                                                                                                                            I give you MollyGate:

                                                                                                                            1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                              Sad. If I had a friendly purebred, I wouldn't leave it out alone. I hope my homely mutts are safe as I dash in for a quick purchase.

                                                                                                                              1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                Well, it's something to consider when your dog is worth $$.
                                                                                                                                It only takes a couple seconds.

                                                                                                                                That story generated a whole lot of discussion, as you can imagine.

                                                                                                                            2. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                              tcamp, i walked by the dog area today. there's a gum ball machine that dispenses free dog biscuits and giant water fountain thingy. It has a big sign -"Dog Bark" is what the area is called. very cute.

                                                                                                                              1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                That is great! Last time I was in LA, I went to a farmers market that had a dog check area for shoppers to leave their pooches while they shopping. The large, portable pen was filled up with little things running around happily.

                                                                                                                                Nothing like that at my WF which is on a city block w/o space for a dog area.

                                                                                                                                1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                  I can't help myself- please do not leave your dog unattended anywhere!

                                                                                                                                  1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                    The FM I speak of in LA was tended. You checked your dog in and got a little button to reclaim the right one. I thought it was cool and better than the FM in my town where lots of dogs get tied up around the perimeter cuz they're not allowed on the square.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                      That's an amazing service at your FM.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                        I love this idea.

                                                                                                                                        I realize people take their dogs with them wherever they go for a variety of reasons.
                                                                                                                                        One of the reasons is because the dog has horrible separation anxiety.
                                                                                                                                        Just yesterday I listened (while shopping inside the store) to a little dog, tied up to the building, crying at the top of its lungs for the owner inside. The person didn't bring it inside but that little dog was losing its mind outside. Something like this is a wonderful idea.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                          SOUNDS wonderful, but owners need to realize that even in an attended dog enclosure/park, fights can break out in the blink of an eye, and dogs - particularly small ones, and even more so if not segregated by size - can be seriously mauled, or worse. Other than dumping/hosing water at them, a human can't effectively intercede to break up a dogfight without getting bitten.

                                                                                                                                          Tying up the dogs is also unwise unless at full extension of their leads, they cannot touch more than noses. Even easy-going dogs can and do panic and lash out if leashes get tangled so as to force the dogs to bump each other, which they interpret as aggression.

                                                                                                                                          Even tied up alone, a dog can tangle itself up, panic, and get hurt. I was once leaving home with a brand-new greyhound, headed for his vet appt. I'd forgotten something inside the house, so I looped his nylon webbing leash around the car door handle and went back inside - about 20 ft away. In less than 2 minutes, I was leaving the house, and met at the door by the grinning hound. Not about to be ignored, he'd bitten through the leash quite neatly - it was't at all shredded - and followed me. Had he not been as focused on human companship as he was, he could have taken off, and not even an Olympian sprinter could have caught up with him.

                                                                                                                                          All in all, better to leave them home in situations where they would need to be separated from their owners.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: greygarious

                                                                                                                                            I completely agree.

                                                                                                                                            My dog stays home, always.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: greygarious

                                                                                                                                              I agree. To take a dog away from his safe place, then remove his one sense of that safe place (his owner) is asking for trouble. If the animal is not passed to someone specific to distract and care for them, the outcome is very unpredictable.

                                                                                                                                              Before everyone chimes in here, of course there are dogs who are exceptions - they have likely been intentionally conditioned to deal with these situations, which is completely doable if that's your goal.

                                                                                                                                              EDIT: Even if I had a dog that was trained to wait patiently outside alone, I would be very nervous about him/her being abused or dognapped by icky people.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                or bitten by a dog who's not quite as laid-back as mine-- and on a leash, they have no recourse.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                  Dogs have personalities just like people.
                                                                                                                                                  We're working hard to socialize our new puppy- in fact, in class, we passed our dogs from person to person for a few seconds of interaction so the dogs would get accustomed to different people, smells, hair etc.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                    You make a good point - there needs to be a balancing act between a dog's being at home, in known surroundings, which is reassuring because of dogs' denning and territorial instincts, and socializing so your dog is not overly stressed or scared by new locations, people, and animals. This is a common issue with dogs rescued from hoarders, mills, and the like. They've had little positive human contact, often having to compete for resources. Everything in their pre-rescue lives was dangerous. So they do need to be out in public, to become desensitized, and not everyone is patient or informed enough to do this safely and successfully.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: greygarious

                                                                                                                                                      It's so important as puppies- the window closes on their impressionability and it becomes harder to change them and how they react to the world.
                                                                                                                                                      I have 2 rescues beside our new puppy.
                                                                                                                                                      One reason we went with buying a puppy was to have the "blank slate".
                                                                                                                                                      I love my rescues, but I want every shot to get my puppy certified as a therapy dog.

                                                                                                                                                    2. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                      I agree that it's VERY important to socialize dogs; I just don't think that they should be left out in the world alone to make their own decisions or to become a possible victim. I don't advocate keeping a dog only at home.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                        Somewhere here I linked to a DC story about a couple who tied their dog up at WF and it was stolen.
                                                                                                                                                        So, so dumb. There were two of them! One stay with the dog for Pete's sake.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                          <I don't advocate keeping a dog only at home>

                                                                                                                                                          Our very old dog is a rescue.
                                                                                                                                                          She's the light of our lives and she, for whatever reason before she came to us, has a horrible fear of other dogs.
                                                                                                                                                          We tried, through all kinds of attempted interaction with other dogs and 'training' to socialize her, but it's not what makes her calm and content.
                                                                                                                                                          She likes taking her walks and eating and staying close to home. All dogs are different and I don't think one suit fits all.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                            At our boarding facility, there was a wonderful dog that was a rescue and was hit by a car. She lived in the office.
                                                                                                                                                            Her world ended at the door. People would try to take her for a walk and she'd shake.
                                                                                                                                                            She was so lucky to live out her life there.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                              She takes her walks. That's her away time. She sounds wonderful.

                                                                                                                                                    3. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                      Unfortunately, this particular FM is about 2,600 miles away so I don't get there often but I'm not the only one who appreciated the doggie service:


                                                                                                                              2. re: TeRReT

                                                                                                                                Easy for you to say. You're not allergic. Will you drive the allergic person to the hospital, or administer their epipen for them?

                                                                                                                                1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                  chowrin: let's really talk numbers.
                                                                                                                                  this "allergic" thing is not really an issue.
                                                                                                                                  if someone is that allergic to such a common allergen, they have bigger problems than just going to the grocery store.
                                                                                                                                  dog allergens are EVERYWHERE.
                                                                                                                                  cat allergens are even MORE ubiquitous because they are so small (even smaller than dust mite allergens)
                                                                                                                                  you don't see people suffering from anaphylactic shock EVERYWHERE.
                                                                                                                                  there is no way that the "allergy angle" can be realistically used to characterize this as a public health issue.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                    Allergens are cumulative. You by all means should post notices of probable allergenic contamination, because someone who is "on the edge" will probably walk away, and be fine.

                                                                                                                                    I know someone who has dropped unconscious from running up Cardiac Hill, because he was allergic to the air (lotta sulphur contamination when it's hot around here).

                                                                                                                                    It's more common than you might suppose, that someone's health is seriously endangered by common practices.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                      I strongly believe we need to live in plastic bubbles so this doesn't occur.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                        Tin foil-wrapped plastic bubbles.
                                                                                                                                        Can't be too careful, now.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                          But still, this allergy discussion aside, not everyone likes dogs so why aggravate the situation by taking them somewhere where they could be exposed to hostilities?

                                                                                                                                          1. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                                                            There have been more comments leaning towards not having dogs in the store but let's keep facts straight. Some people hate dogs, fine. Some people are afraid of dogs, fine. Some hate the idea of dogs hear food, fine. But being afraid that people will start dropping dead? A little far fetched to say the least. How many people do you think die a year from exposure to a dog in the vicinity? There are about 200 deaths a year due to allergies a years, most of them to ingested food or drugs.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                              I don't think anyone said about dropping dead from being exposed to dog dander. but animal allergies sucks. today I saw a man in Costco with his very eager poodle. the dog was sniffing everything and knocking over stacks. Then he started to sniff this lady. It was hysterical! At this point I can safely say no one, including the dog, the owner and the people near the dog were very happy.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                Dogs in Costco is another one I've never seen nor even heard of, and if the dog was a service dog, it needs remedial training!

                                                                                                                                                1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                  come to Boulder, Colorado. You will find dogs everywhere except dining rooms of restaurants. As I mentioned, dogs make the rules around here.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                    oh missed that one. my bad. well, i don't think anyone will die from dog exposure in a store but it's a pain in the butt to have environ/animal allergies.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                      I completely agree. I don't believe dogs belong in grocery stores, if they're not service dogs for a lot of reasons but the possibility of someone dying isn't one of them. As I said elsewhere, I can't imagine trying to control my puppy around all that food!

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                        but man, my big Lab would be elevated to World Champion Beggar.

                                                                                                                                                        He'd spend the whole day wandering from one department to the next, mooching treats with his "poor pitiful me" eyes, never mind the size of his big hairy butt.

                                                                                                                                                  2. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                    trolley, if you read the thread carefully, you absolutely will see posts talking about people dropping dead in grocery stores because of exposure to a dog

                                                                                                                                                    here is one:
                                                                                                                                                    <<I prefer not to have people dropping to the ground in front of me, under some form of cardiac arrest.>>

                                                                                                                                                2. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                                                                  I take my dogs where it's legal to take them.
                                                                                                                                                  If anyone is hostile about it, they can contact their appropriate authorities or powers that be.

                                                                                                                                      2. re: TeRReT

                                                                                                                                        Thank you for your opinion. My parents operated a Ma&Pa butcher/deli shop. Customer would enter from the street and the back door from the parking, into the back room, where my dad would prepare things for the counter or cut a customers request. They ate their meals at an old chrome kitchen table, while watching the front. This table was covered with an apron, because our boxer was sleeping on a blanket, rather than staying for 10 hrs in the upstairs apartment. After a number of years the Health Inspector who patrolled regularly, came and apologetically said, he received a complained about a dog on the premise, and he had never seen a dog in the store. So my father pointed to the table and Christopher looked up at him, with out a sound. Of course he was surprised because he's making the round for years. That's not all, Christopher, would appear only for certain customers and greet them. He would know when my mother, was left alone, when dad was in the basement making sausage, or at evening when dad delivered purchases. He'd get up and stand in the back door and growled if anyone would approach, he didn't recognize. He was also my babies guard, until she grew up. We had hundreds of customers, and only a few knew the dog. He stayed hidden. I live in an apartment building for 18 years we have had many dog-neighbours, in all this time I have not seen any dog fights or bad behaviour on the elevator.
                                                                                                                                        Dog accidents have occurred when the owner would not take them out in time. Any kid would do the same. So needless I 'm on the side of Dogs. I wish store keepers would provide a device where a customer can tie up a pet while shopping.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                                                                                                          Maybe dogs nowadays are sort of like their younger human counterparts, but they see a lot more emotional to me. You seldom see a "Petey" type dog out on the street.

                                                                                                                                      3. I think it's a fundamental disregard for people, who don't bring their dogs to the grocery store, and their attitude is one of entitlement and 'I don't care what you think mind your own business'.
                                                                                                                                        That's all it is. The world seems to be filled with this attitude.

                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                          yep and it seems the majority have to kowtow to the minority these days.

                                                                                                                                        2. I would be just as interested to know what the dogs think about being taken to the store, and pushed around in a cart.

                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                          1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                                            They think. I would not buy that. I love you Master. If only I could drive to the store and buy what I like.

                                                                                                                                          2. I don't mind dogs in the pet store or on the outside patio of a restaurant that states it is dog friendly. But, I hate seeing dogs in grocery stores or the mall. My exceptions would be registered service dogs

                                                                                                                                            14 Replies
                                                                                                                                            1. re: Kalivs

                                                                                                                                              A pet store is a type of food store, right? What's the difference?

                                                                                                                                                1. re: foodieX2

                                                                                                                                                  Well, no, not really, because food preparation isn't done in most big box pet stores. But it is interesting that pet stores allow dogs to pee and poop like it is commonplace and yet we'd be completely bonkers if it happened in a human food store.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                                                    first, dogs and cats are known to consume poop -- their own or that of other animals, whether of the same species or not. Eating poop residue is not beneficial, but not necessarily harmful (other than the obviously negative impact of poop-breath on their human companions....) Cophrophagy is not terribly common amongst human animals.

                                                                                                                                                    second, dogs and cats have a far more efficient immune system than do humans -- they are built to be able to eat poop and garbage and carrion and survive, as well as to fight infection in various bites and wounds without medical treatment (not always, but they're better at it than we are!) Us? Not so much.

                                                                                                                                                    third -- the food offered for sale in pet stores is highly-processed and packaged...even the raw food is well-packaged in plastic packages.

                                                                                                                                                    Humans have a less-efficient immune system, and a large percentage of food available in supermarkets is not processed and pre-packaged.

                                                                                                                                                    Nothing in a pet store is intended or approved for human consumption. Human-grade hygiene is, by definition, not as big a deal in a pet store.

                                                                                                                                                    Not a valid comparison.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                      <<Humans have a less-efficient immune system, and a large percentage of food available in supermarkets is not processed and pre-packaged.

                                                                                                                                                      maybe this is why so many humans get sick from food that is SOLD and PACKAGED at the grocery stores????
                                                                                                                                                      also, cross-contamination both at restaurants and in home kitchens is a huge problem.

                                                                                                                                                      CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die of foodborne diseases from FOOD that is approved for sale.

                                                                                                                                                      if you're worried about fecal matter, keep in mind that when food animals are slaughtered their fecal matter gets all over everything. check out ANY of the underground footage that has come out of ANY of the slaughterhouses.

                                                                                                                                                      now THIS is much more of a REAL problem than the fabricated one that you are trying to sell about dogs. . . .

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                        straw man.

                                                                                                                                                        you've very much stated the obvious.

                                                                                                                                                        You've not at all addressed the fact that my point was very much about dogs eating food contaminated with dog poo.

                                                                                                                                                        I've already stated -- in so many words -- that dogs don't belong in grocery stores.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                            somewhere you missed my point that it's unacceptable to allow your dog to do whatever business in public and then not clean it up -- AND that it's not acceptable to take a non-service dog into a grocery store.

                                                                                                                                                            You even missed the post where I said that the stuff that's already on my food is probably at least as bad, if not worse, than anything a dog or toddler could possibly throw at it. (pun only semi-intended)

                                                                                                                                                            Dog food ≠ people food.
                                                                                                                                                            Pet store ≠ grocery store.
                                                                                                                                                            Different species, different standards

                                                                                                                                                            You and I have been pretty much on the same page in this discussion.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                          Speaking of fecal matter, I read in the Sunday paper that 38 million americans say they shop online while using the toilet. I find that much grosser than a dog's butt.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                            I am sometimes amazed at the discoveries, idea's and overall effectiveness of my time in the bathroom. I think there is something to be said for the fact knowing you are "free" for a few moments (or longer in my case) that clears your mind and allows you to think more clearly. I've got to admit, I enjoy my toilet time!!!

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                              I only think to myself, "I've got to do a better job cleaning the tub."

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                              <38 billion americans>

                                                                                                                                                              That's quite alot considering the world population is 7.1 billion.
                                                                                                                                                              I'm sure you meant 'million'.

                                                                                                                                                        2. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                                                          <completely bonkers if it happened in a human food store>

                                                                                                                                                          I've seen it happen in a 'human food store'.
                                                                                                                                                          Go bonkers….then what?
                                                                                                                                                          Call the manager, police, call in the health department, code enforcement?
                                                                                                                                                          They're an ear for your rant and then nothing happens.
                                                                                                                                                          The dog and their owner walk merrily along and kind of stick it to you.
                                                                                                                                                          In this great state of CA where I live we have all sorts of 'laws' like this where legislators sit on their asses all day long to see what other stupid concept they can up with that's not enforceable.

                                                                                                                                                  2. I have never seen a dog in a grocery store in my 67 (almost) years on this planet.........then again I've never shopped for groceries in California.

                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                    1. not good. I live in the land of dogs (boulder, CO) where dogs are allowed just about everywhere. Home depot is a like a dog park. i have two issues with dogs in carts. first, is that i know many people that are very allergic to dogs so dogs in indoor public spaces should be limited to guide dogs. the other is the oblivious dog owner. they let their beloved chihuahua mark, jump, and yelp. if you can't control their dogs then they just can't be there. period. if the dog sits in your purse quietly, then I don't see why not? and I can't believe you guys are equating dogs with human babies. so that means you are all equal to an adult dog, right? do you want your kibbles in a bowl outside tonight? ;)

                                                                                                                                                      11 Replies
                                                                                                                                                      1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you, Trolley. I'm always offended when the Canine Cult presumes to compare dogs and children on the same level.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                                                                          I love my dog, and enjoy taking him with me when he's allowed, but yeah -- not the same as babies, not ever.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                            Sunshine, you are a model dog owner! I wish all dog people would follow your example of thoughtfulness for others.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                              Yes. Much better, in fact. Cats even more so.

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                                                                              i have childless friends who equate their dogs with my kid. I've had cats before and understand the love and the sentiment. but babies grow into adults and have discussions like this one and hopefully become productive members of society. Pets, well they stay pets. yes, young kids are like petridishes and we should wipe after them after they drooled all over the place. but same goes for dogs. most people are allergic to the saliva and dander of the cat/dog and not necessarily the fur. and i know dogs that salivate everywhere. i do think babies belong in supermarkets (as annoying as they can be to some, with their sudden screeching and cries and parents who think the store is a playground)bc they are humans and markets were made for humans. eventually they will be shopping in them. but our pets won't be picking up a loaf of bread in the future when they get older. i now live in a town where dogs practically make the rules. there are dog pubs and going to the hardware store means getting jumped or your leg humped by some unruly dog. i've seen dogs mark their territory at hardware stores. this is not ok.

                                                                                                                                                            3. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                              I'm with you on this good behaviour is a pre requisit

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: IAMFoodie36

                                                                                                                                                                It is interesting that people often state their requirement that children and dogs must behave, but rarely do we state this about adults!

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                  Isn't that because it is a given? At least in my world the boorish, badly behaved adult is the exception.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: foodieX2

                                                                                                                                                                    I find that adults are merely more subtle.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                      How awful. I consider my blessed then, and appreciate my circle of friends and my neighborhood.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                                                                                                                cops can't come because they are too busy responding to folks like my neighbor who have appointed themselves the George Zimmerman of parking.
                                                                                                                                                                the neighbor believes that he owns the parking spot in front of his house and calls the cops whenever anyone else parks there. . . . . .

                                                                                                                                                                some of my other neighbors want to call the cops whenever a black person enters the neighborhood.

                                                                                                                                                                how could the cops be available for the critical work of policing the grocery store when they are busy with this stuff?

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                  From what I've been told it's not the cops jurisdiction.

                                                                                                                                                                  It's the health department or code enforcement for the city.
                                                                                                                                                                  Apparently none of it is enforceable the way the laws are written.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                    i guess i can take some comfort that at least the cops aren't going to be expected to deal with this too

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                      I would think it's the store's General Manager's job. If it escalated into a brawl, THEN you call the cops and have them arrested.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                        << If it escalated into a brawl,>>
                                                                                                                                                                        i could just imagine it: cream puffs and dinner rolls being hurled back and forth between the combatants.

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: ipsedixit

                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah, me too. Then the health department.
                                                                                                                                                                  And if that failed, I would post signs saying,
                                                                                                                                                                  "This store is not a sanitary environment.
                                                                                                                                                                  It is a health hazard, and anyone allergic
                                                                                                                                                                  to ratfur or other dander should be warned before entering"

                                                                                                                                                                3. I have never seen this and not that I think a dog has more germs than a kid or other things that are put in grocery carts but I just think it's not OK to bring a dog into a grocery store.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. I have a bit of a germ issue which makes me think shopping carts are giant germ carriages with or without a seeing a dog in one.

                                                                                                                                                                    I do, however, have strong opinions on the human customers wearing their pajamas and bedroom slippers but that is another issue......

                                                                                                                                                                    1. The only distinction between a service animal and a pet are laws of access and hopefully some obedience training.

                                                                                                                                                                      I find them no worse than a variety of toddlers and birds on shoulders. And no better. The adults, a term I use based on age, not maturity, are responsible for their actions.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. Free range in a grocery cart, no I'm against that. If they bring a small bed, or it's a small dog and it's in their fancy dog carrier bag or other "container" of some sort, I have no problem with it. Pretty much if your dog is going to have an "accident" I want that self contained, not in the cart, not on the floor.

                                                                                                                                                                        **Edit of PC purposes, outside of service dog's of course.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. disgusting
                                                                                                                                                                          dogs donot belong in grocery stores, etc. or children in basket of cart

                                                                                                                                                                          9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jpr54_1

                                                                                                                                                                            I'm sorry if I mis-read this, but are you saying children don't belong in grocery stores, or in the seating portion of the cart?

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                              I just watched a documentary on supermarkets (Modern Marvels, it was fascinating) and those seats were specifically designed for children, so the moms would spend more time shopping and not hurrying home.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                I used to love riding in the cart, but now that I really think about it, I don't see moms doing it all that much.
                                                                                                                                                                                I've seen moms use the little car carts that the kids think they're driving, but not a lot in that specific seat.
                                                                                                                                                                                Just an observation- can't really say why. Perhaps the prevalence of food delivery?

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                  Working moms now usually have daycare or whatnot, and seem to squeeze in shopping during their lunch hour or on the way home.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                      I do enjoy shopping on my own the most.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                  Well that was going to be my next point. It's hard to say you don't think they belong there when that is specifically designed for that purpose. That's why I'm wondering if I mis-read the post, or intention of the post.

                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                  some mothers allow children in the basket(where you place your items)

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jpr54_1

                                                                                                                                                                                    Ahhhhh ok, I see your point, thank you for clarifying.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. I don't see any problem with pet dogs in grocery carts as long as I'm allowed to bring pet pigs and pet rats in the grocery store too, both of which can be just as clean and well behaved as a dog. People should be allowed to bring whatever pet they have.

                                                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Pookipichu

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'd be afraid to bring a pet rat into a store. The last thing I'd want is a pet snake wrapped around someone's neck to get a free meal.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. I worry far more about junior's shitty diaper than fido's furry tuchus.

                                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: grampart

                                                                                                                                                                                      I love it when I see those things but I'm not entirely sure if the parent is doing it for the child's sake (the child doesn't come in contact with the dirty bars this way) or for the sake of the other customers.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Either way it seems to make it all a little cleaner for everyone, to me anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm pretty sure it's for the kid, not others.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: sal_acid

                                                                                                                                                                                      sal_acid: scientifically, your position accurately reflects the TRUE probabilities.

                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Whenever I see someone with a dog in their grocery cart (which thankfully isn't often) I judge them. I sense they feel they're the entitled "the rules don't apply to me" type. Heck, they're probably parked in front of the fire hydrant because they "just need a few things". ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course I may be judging unfairly in some cases - legitimate therapy dogs, for example.

                                                                                                                                                                                      6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: UTgal

                                                                                                                                                                                        legitimate therapy dogs probably aren't sitting in the cart.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                          Guess it depends on the service the dog is providing and its size.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: viperlush

                                                                                                                                                                                            There was a guy I used to see in a bar I frequented who had a service dog that was smaller than my cat! :-D I of course never asked but assumed he maybe had a seizure disorder, PTSD, a heart condition, who knows.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: UTgal

                                                                                                                                                                                              When the animal is unobtrusive, attentive, and the owner isn't fawning over it in give them the owner benefit of the doubt. There are so many reasons that an animal can be of service that aren't easy to discern just by looking.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: viperlush

                                                                                                                                                                                              that would be why it said "probably". The number of legitimate small-breed service dogs is fairly small.

                                                                                                                                                                                              They exist, but they're not exactly a majority.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                just saw one yesterday in Marshall's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                in it's own tiny stroller.
                                                                                                                                                                                                woman was wearing one of those "medic-alert" bracelets and one of those "help i've fallen" emergency call necklaces.
                                                                                                                                                                                                if that clean, well-behaved, tiny, dog in it's tiny stroller, is what's allowing this woman to leave her house, i'm in support of that. . . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. and with all of this wailing and rending of garments....

                                                                                                                                                                                          I have no misconceptions whatsoever about the food in the grocery store. The grocery store is not some bubble-wrapped sanctum of sterility-- and I am fully aware that anything that I pick up (canned goods, fresh produce, meat...**anything**) is quite likely to be contaminated with microbes that will look like child's play alongside anything a toddler (or, let's be real, a dog, even though dogs don't belong in a grocery store)) could possibly leave on the child seat.

                                                                                                                                                                                          You guys are lucky to live in such hygienic worlds where contamination could only possibly come from some toddler's ass.

                                                                                                                                                                                          10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                            yeah, I know precisely which foods are contaminated with ratshit... because it's a known allergen.
                                                                                                                                                                                            any bloody store taht has dogs in it ought to put notices.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I do NOT need dead men in the grocery store. That's in poor taste.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                              this is so unlikely to happen that you would be have far better odds of winning the Mega Millions than finding <<dead men in the grocery store>> as a result of allergens.

                                                                                                                                                                                              now, the odds are substantially higher of finding <<dead men in the grocery store>> as a result of heart disease or cancer that is associated with the types of the food that they have been consuming that they have been purchasing from the grocery store.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                on this one, I'm actually right there with westsidegal --

                                                                                                                                                                                                Can you please cite statistics that people keeling over dead in the grocery store is a statistically significant issue?

                                                                                                                                                                                                We all know it has happened -- so nobody's saying "never" -- but really....how often does it happen, and how often is it attributable to allergies?

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                  the ironic thing is that i agree with chowrin that there is an "ick" factor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  that said, i object when people try to cloak their personal preferences with fabricated "science" or with nonsensical "what if" scenarios.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                    have you seen people turning purple while walking down the street? Yeah, around here, the air's probably a bit worse than where you are... (particularly in hayfever time)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                    you're more likely to see someone in anaphylactic shock, or having a cascade reaction. But epipens can kill.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Everything is deadly about life if it kills you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      None of us are getting out of here alive. I don't see how we can avoid the inherent risks of living a public life? As long as it is not "crazy risky" public behavior, not much can be done about all these things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some folks certainly have to take more precautions than others.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Chowrin, what in the world are you actually on about?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not being snarky -- what in the world does "dropping dead in the grocery" have to actually do with the rest of this thread?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I know you to be astute enough to not post unless you were headed somewhere with this...but from where I'm sitting, you're wandering.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I genuinely hope you come back and explain your thoughts -- you've almost always got something interesting to say, even if I don't agree....but you've lost me here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And here I thought all the dead bodies I encountered in grocery stores was due to excessive lewd dancing...

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                        WARNING: twerking can be fatal....

                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. nasty gross humans are touching EVERYTHING in the grocery store all day long - do you really want to know what's on that cart? Yuk this is why most food is packages and we wash the rest

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dogs are not particularly dirtier than people and only occasionally worse behaved

                                                                                                                                                                                                    That said as a dog owner and dog lover I think it is ridiculous for people bring dogs into grocery stores - they do not belong there - not everyone loves dogs - some people are scared of dogs even. It is juts not appropriate - and even for little handbag dogs they open up the whole "where to draw the line issue"

                                                                                                                                                                                                    My dogs are not good in public - I wont even take them to PETCO - if we hit the meat dept at Wegmans I think they would loose their minds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Seriously dogs are dogs, they are great, they do not belong everywhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not a big fan of toddlers either but hey we can't all shop in our personalized bubble (unless you do it online I guess) and while people can and should be able to leave their dogs home while they shop they cannot be expected to do so with their kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Don't care, as long as they aren't attempting to bite people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Can somebody give me one good reason why a dog should be brought to the supermarket? Edit, other than service dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                                                                                                                                          As I stated before up thread…

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I know people who can't stand being away from their precious canine for more than 2 seconds and their entire life is centered around their dog...
                                                                                                                                                                                                          They take them everywhere with them, including the washroom. They also, like lots of parents out there, believe their precious dog is going to be loved by all they come in contact with.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's a new addiction out there... Dog/human codependency.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          I love my dog but she's, well, a dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I see this a lot here too. If a person cannot leave their dog home alone long enough to go to the store, they have a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                                There are plenty of dogs with separation anxiety, which results in them damaging their homes, sometimes injuring themselves in the process, not to mention experiencing tremendous stress and unhappiness, when left home alone. This is a problem that should be addressed by a veterinarian specializing in behavior problems, who can prescribe anti-anxiety meds and work out a program of desensitization. But there are owners who can't afford that rather pricy solution, or aren't able, or diligent enough, to carry out their part of the desensitization instructions - stuff like leaving for a minute and gradually increasing the intervals over days and weeks. These people sometimes "solve" the problem by taking the dog everywhere. That's NOT an excuse for their behavior, just a possible explanation. It's not always the owner who can't bear to be away from the dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: greygarious

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes I realize this, I had one...... As if the damage to our furniture and leather car seats weren't enough, and the desensitization therapy & anti anxiety meds weren't enough..... He finally knocked down my 86 year old grandmother, and it was the final straw. We had to give him away to a kind gentleman confined to a wheelchair, who had nothing but time to spend with him. He had a wonderful life after that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nonetheless, owners that "solve" this problem by taking the dog everywhere, sometimes in baby strollers, are indeed pretty selfish in my book.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: greygarious

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Its the owners responsibility to socialize and train the dog properly. It is not the responsibility of the public to have to deal with a dog that can't bear to be away from poppa and momma.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If people can't understand that dogs should not a pet for people who spend most of the day working, then they are better off getting a couple of hamsters....or fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think you can still find Pet Rocks on Ebay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've come to the conclusion, at least where I live, that most people are motivated by self-interest when it comes to many things, including taking their dog to the grocery store.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They know the law and they simply choose to ignore it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When I spoke with Code Enforcement about this, because I'm law abiding and don't infringe on other people and their right to have a dog free grocery store according to the law, he told me Code Enforcement has NO jurisdiction over a business's private property.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In other words…if a grocery store doesn't call Code Enforcement or the police or whomever to help them out with the problem, and cite the person, then they're choosing to allow it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It really IS up to me to now choose whether or not I want to shop there. These laws, that these people in Sacramento who word these things the way they do and then pass them, are hard to reinforce. It's the normal, everyday law abiding citizen like you and me, who has to endure the ones who could care less about those laws and know they can break them. Easily.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's interesting. Not that I though police were roaming the supermarkets looking for infractions, but I had a feeling someone had to call them in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. My son's ex G/F had a small dog whom I was convinced was a human being inside her little sausage shaped dog body. His G/F took that dog everywhere, dressed to the nines in the latest canine haute couture and no one ever objected, in fact that dog was a *people* magnet. The dog was clean and well trained though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: MamasCooking

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My Yorkie was one of the most precious little dogs on the planet. She had hair, no fur, was bathed often and therefore not a threat to human allergies. It's one of the reasons people have Yorkshire Terriers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I absolutely adored her and she was better company than most people I know. Dogs love unconditionally, it's why people are drawn to them and all data shows their company is highly therapeutic, both mentally and physically, to humans.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Having said that…
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  She was a dog. She wasn't human. She didn't belong in a grocery store where other people and their space is important. It's not MY store…it's everyone's store and it's why there are laws not allowing animals in places where food is sold.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was not the individual taking the dog into stores.It was my sons ex G/F (he disliked the dog!!!).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MamasCooking


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I know alot of people like your son's ex G/F.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Dogs should be allowed everywhere. Restaurants, groceries, the IRS office, etc. life would be better if we could all take our little, well behaved, adorable puglets everyplace we go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Teague

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hold on, I need a bigger knife to cut this sarcasm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Tokyoite

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      haha, I was actually sorta serious. You definitely would be better off with your toy dog attending yer command attendance at the IRS office. Though I have never wanted or tried to bring Frodo to the grocery store. My toy dog is so stupid, living with him is like having a particularly troublesome begonia. He's at his best at home, or walking in the neighborhood, trying to pee high on bushes evidently to seem taller.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Teague

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        don't feel bad about your toy dog's IQ.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        one of my dogs is a border collie, you know, the breed that is supposed to be brilliant.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it appears that she didn't receive the memo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        she is the sweetest, prettiest, friendliest, dog imaginable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but dumb.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        when i want her to chase a squirrel out of the backyard, i have to walk up to the squirrel and point it out to her. . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        her specialty is sitting in front of people and staring at them adoringly. .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Unsanitary & unnecessary...... Unless it's a true service animal, and those breeds are normally too large to be put in ones cart, it belongs on the floor like everyone else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Dogs, other than assistance dogs, have no place inside a supermarket. And, where I am in the world, it would not be tolerated. Simple as that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Here's my take. I would not dream of taking my beloved family dog--who has been vaccinated against disease, and who is continent-- into a grocery store.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My dog is different from a service animal or a therapy dog the latter of which accompany many folks with PTSD. Service/therapy animals must be accommodated, IIRC, per the Americans with Disabilities Act.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My wish is that all owners of dogs and parents of children would be as aware as my dear CH friends are about germs/vaccinations. In the summertime in my area, when the temps reach the 90s, I've seen many sweet babies and young toddlers, clad only in diapers swimming in local pools, sitting in the kiddie seat area of grocery carts, and hoisted onto the counter of Dunkin Donuts. More often than not, there is no one at the pool to enforce health codes, nor are folks ringing up coffee orders empowered to say "Hey, get that kid's butt off of the counter."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Many people don't care about others, in yukky, yukky ways.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually, you know what is dirtier than the average clothed baby butt? The bottom of a woman's handbag. Which I put on the counter and shopping cart seat ALL OF THE TIME.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fact is, most people have a piss poor sense of actual vs. perceived risks. Thus "stranger danger" is portrayed as a huge danger to most kids when, in fact, it is their own family members/relatives who are more likely to harm them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Does the dog have a bar code?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. In my state, it is illegal to bring dogs into stores where food is being prepared (deli) sold, unless it is an outdoor patio area just where food is served. I am a huge dog fan. I enjoy taking my well-trained dog with me to a variety of stores where it is welcome, such as the feed store or to restaurants that advertise their dog friendly patios.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I do not take my dog where it is not legal or welcome. (This includes cemeteries while geocaching, even if no one is looking). Therefore I would be against a dog in a shopping cart at a grocery store in my state.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is it a service dog? That's a completely different issue. I would never object to a trained, legal service dog doing its job.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. Health code violation unless its a service dog. But it happens all the time, anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HoosierFoodie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I find it so funny that apparently dogs become magically sanitary to some people if they are service dogs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they don't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But the benefit of their presence far outweighs the risk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and because any store that barred a service dog from entering would be sued off the face of the earth. ADA, donchaknow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. I'm starting to really think I'm the only person in the universe who wipes my dog's a$$ with baby wipes after she "goes".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think dogs are great in restaurants with patios that openly welcome them. But the grocery store? No. Just get yer friggin groceries and leave Fido at home.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                During my living in Europe stint, dogs were largely welcomed in lower end restaurants and pubs. Even though people often took dogs with them, I used the "is there seating outside?" rule for myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                29 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I admit. I do not wipe my dog's ass. She does helpfully roll in my horses' shit when possible, so she does her part in wiping.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Haha :D Sounds like she's got her own system!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And I'll fess up to wiping because she sleeps in the bed with me. And gets on the couch when nobody's looking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have yet to keel over dead. That's just part of living on a farm. That said, it is MY farm, not a public grocery store. She doesn't go where she isn't welcome. Dog owners following the rules make it easier for the rest of us dog owners to be welcome. Kind of like kids (I know, I know, I'm not saying my dog is like your kid) But if you have good experiences with kids in restaurants -- well behaved, appropriate for the setting -- you are more likely to not be appalled to be seated by them. Same with dogs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (Sometimes she is asked to sleep in her bed and not mine before she gets hosed off..... mmmm stinky.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yup. I sell my chicken eggs to friends. One woman of a friend bought some, then told my friend that she didn't want to buy any more eggs from me. She found a bit of chicken poop on a few eggs....and a little feather in the carton.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I asked my friend what she said to the woman....she said...ummm..... You do know where chicken eggs * come from* ? Pretty funny.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *waves money*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'll take hers, poop and feathers and all!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (just tell me the yolks are orange...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know, right?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bright orange. That is from eating all those "disgusting" things that woman doesn't want to think about :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sadly, they wouldn't be all that fresh by the time they got to me.... :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's amazing how good digested bugs taste when "pooped" out of chickens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Heh my Bluetick hounds roll around, and sometimes chew on the dried cow patties in our pasture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Actually the idea of getting one of them to stay in a shopping cart for longer than a few seconds is a damned amusing prospect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'd have to get all of them in the same cart, and have my son push them around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Then once the dogs got bored, they'd dive out of the cart and charge up and down the aisles in utter delight, knocking over most of the displays they ran past.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'd love to try it, but I'm pretty certain I'd be trespassed from every Publix in Central Florida.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: deet13

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          some neurotic dogs eat their own shit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Don't know how neurotic our Malamute was, didn't have him long enough to really figure it out. But one of his habits was taking a big, long poop in the winter, letting it freeze like a popsicle and holding it up between his paws to eat it all up. He was obviously in heaven.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That wasn't the reason we eventually got rid of him though. He was a good natured soul.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              He was saving the planet by recycling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And plenty of non-neurotic dogs eat their own waste as well. Female dogs eat their own pups fecal waste, it's just a hard-wired reaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That said, I personally find the idea of taking ones dog into the grocery store as being the epitome of low class.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I give service dogs a pass because they're necessary for their owners; however, anybody else doing it is being boorish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I will on occasion wipe my cat's feet and/or butt after he uses the litter box. He doesn't get on counters, but he does like to sleep on my face.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i don't need to wipe my dog's ass because he has a bad habit of stealing and eating tissues from the tissue box.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            when he poops out the tissues, he effectively wipes his own ass. . . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hey -- bacon-flavored tissues -- it's a treat! It's an asswipe!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I had a cat who used to floss his own ass after eating tinsel...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm sure you are. Why in the hell would anybody else want to wipe your dog's ass??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't have to wipe my dog's ass...he does it himself. With his tongue. Do NOT let him kiss you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <I'm starting to really think I'm the only person in the universe who wipes my dog's ass with baby wipes after she "goes">

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No, you're not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There's a whole subculture out there who'd love to meet you and go over everything else they do for their little angel-darling.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I watch people every day who take those wipes (meant for children and now there's going to be a new line for canines I just know it) and carefully and with great detail wipe their dog's ass. Their behavior is eye opening. Then again, I don't french kiss my dog, like I'm assuming they do because I've seen them kiss their dog on the mouth like they're a lover, so maybe they're just being proactive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Which eye is it opening??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (sorry...my daughter would get that joke...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I will now go forth having been put firmly in my place.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do not kiss my dog with an open mouth, I happen to enjoy clean furniture.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But, now I've strayed far off topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <I will now go forth having been put firmly in my place>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh no :).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wrote that post with tongue in cheek, seriously, and never meant to ridicule.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm a huge dog lover, much like you and many people on this thread.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When my little dog passed I was literally ridiculed, by those who don't understand the love of an animal, who told me 'it's an animal you've got to get over it'. I was devastated by her passing and still can't think too much about it without feeling sad again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Those who love their dogs, wipe their tush and kiss them on the mouth? Well, the bond between man and dog is strong and who's to judge? It really IS a love like no other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The love of a dog is pure and unfaltering. They are perfectly honest and unafraid to be so. For example, if there is a doorway, an open car door, or a stairway to be traversed, it's dogs first - no shame.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            poodles are too smart to be perfectly honest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sorry, I must have had a stick up me bum when I read that!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'll get out of "my place" now :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: alliegator

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No, but I do insist they use mouthwash after gobbling down goose shit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good to know you have standards.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. I would make a written complaint to the company.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Was this in California? There is so much abuse of the "service dog" provision of the law that the state legislature is looking at revising it. Let's hope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <I would make a written complaint to the company>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Been there, done that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It makes absolutely no difference from my experience.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Of course they respond by thanking, patronizing and promising to 'do something about it' because my business is SO important to them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They can't/won't.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've literally watched the health department talk to the culprit and walk away. They know there's no recourse and the customer also knows it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. I really wish someone had set Sam's Magic House to music. I would hum a few bars round about now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: tcamp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Love it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            People, there's a big difference between something being perceived as yucky and something being an actual health risk. There's absolutely no evidence, after billions of real-world exposures every year, that there's any measurable risk of getting sick from grocery carts. Or from money, or train seats, or your carpet, or any other of the dozens of objects we come into contact with every day that have "yucky" things -- including billions of bacteria -- on them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Humans do not require sterile environments, and in fact, evidence seems to show that overly clean environments contribute to allergies! Obviously if your immune system is compromised in some way you might want to be a bit more careful, but even then ....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you, Ruth! I am exasperated by all these claims that grocery markets are just like the Black Death--except for the part about people getting sick and dying in droves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. This wouldn't bother me. Supermarkets and food warehouses are generally disgustingly dirty, and a dog, baby, or sneezing shopper just add to the mix of rodent droppings, insects, raw meat juice, and plain old dirt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just wipe down the cart if you're worried about it, and always wash your cans before opening them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            24 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Isolda

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you regularly wipe down your cart? I'm talking, not the seat where one puts one's child or small dog apparently, but the actual carriage? Because, the last time I saw someone in the grocery store with their non-service dog, it was in the carriage portion.....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i wipe down the whole cart because:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1) i've seen people put their CHILDREN (ones that were too big to be seated in the little rear-facing seat) in the main part of the cart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the little darlings were still wearing their shoes that had stepped in g-d-knows-what.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2) also, with the younger, diaper-wearing kids, i've seen the leakage go from the rear-facing seat down to the main part of the cart.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3) i've seen juice from improperly sealed containers of raw meat and chicken leaking on to the main part of the cart and on to the floor of the market. worse than that, i've seen such juices leaking onto the conveyor belts at the checkstands and then going around and around and around. that's why, despite wanting to reduce my use of plastic ALL my produce gets put in a plastic bag before going into the cart

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  children will not ever be exiled to hermetically-sealed boxes, allowed to exit only upon maturity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Children are legally allowed pretty much everywhere, and children will always be in grocery stores. It's life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nothing they could bring in can possibly be worse than anything that's already on the food itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i agree.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the point i was trying to make is that any contamination that could be associated with the presence of dogs would be IN ADDITION to other contaminations that are far more dangerous than that dog contamination.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a pretty credible case can be made that any additional dog contamination is really inconsequential in the scheme of things. in places that DO allow dogs in restaurants and in the markets there is no evidence of any of the dire consequences occurring that some on this board are imagining.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    as it is, grocery stores are not at all sterile, completely clean environments. imho, it is completely unrealistic and undesirable for anyone to expect that they should be sterile.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but your point that toddler-cooties are somehow more dangerous/vile/disgusting/etc than anything that's already on the food is equally invalid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        speaking as a person who actually knows an adult who contracted polio from changing the diaper of his kid who had just been given the sabin vaccine, i disagree with you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          again, we have to talk about statistical probability.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          While your friend's story is tragic, it is, however, one story and not a trend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The probability of contracting polio from someone's leaky diaper is as probable as George Clooney asking me out! Also, the Sabin vaccine is no longer given out. That ended about 15 yrs ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ok, let's talk about how toddler-cooties are not dangerous:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bacteroides species
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Salmonella and Shigella
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Candida if the person is immunosuppressed (e.g., undergoing cancer treatment)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                E. coli O157 if blood is visible in the stool sample
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Entamoeba histolytica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Intestinal parasites and their ova (eggs)



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                obviously there's more, but this is just a start

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Little disease vectors, I like to call 'em. And yet the species continues on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay...please cite anything you've found pointing to shopping carts as being a viable source of contamination.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please restrict it to citations of toddlers and leaky diapers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Direct contact with the contents of a diaper is a whole different ball game than coming into contact with a grocery cart that may or may not have come into contact with the contents of a diaper that may or not have leaked from the ass of a toddler who may or may not have been healthy in significant concentration to maybe-or-maybe-not contaminate food that may or may not have come into contact with the maybe-or-maybe-not contaminated grocery cart, and whether the food may or may not have been washed, peeled, pared, or cooked before being consumed by someone who may or may not become ill.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    While it is probably statistically probable, the chances are statistically insignificant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There's enough staph and e. coli and other stuff on every. single. food. item in the store (fresh or packaged) that I'm really just not all that skeered by a toddler's ass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Amen. My toddlers asses never made us or anyone else sick.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i agree with you that there is enough staph and e. coli and other stuff on every single food in the store.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i also agree with you in that i, too, am really just not all that skeered by a toddler's ass (after all i diapered one for years)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        where i am disagreeing is that i don't believe that toddler-cooties, in COMPARISON to dog dander, are SO much safer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        toddler-cooties are only much more acceptable socially, but, BY COMPARISON they are not SAFER.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it would be disingenuous to deny that toddler-cooties have a widely known well-established list of dangers that we all know about and ACCEPT, even those folks who despise kids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        also, it is well-established that transmission of many of these diseases DOES take place in places where there are numbers of diapered children. (see the CDC articles i cited)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        there is no logical reason to think that if the diapered children are in a different location that the dangers disappear.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the list of "dangers" of dog dander, is practically non-existent by comparison.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        one of the reasons that dogs have been widely used as service animals for decades WITHOUT INCIDENT (remember "seeing eye dogs"?) is that there is very little actually human health danger associated with their presence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        dogs are just not as SOCIALLY accepted in our country as in others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it's not really an issue of safety/disease/health/people "dropping dead"/ and all this other stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        people in france haven't been "dropping dead" because dogs are ubiquitous there in restaurants and the like.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        even i share some of this SOCIAL attitude, despite having two dogs myself, but it really isn't any more than that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nowhere did I ever say that toddler germs are safer...just that they're really not this enormous sucking black hole of pestilence as they've been portrayed on this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not safer...but not really any riskier, either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As trolley said -- if this were the case, child-care workers would be extinct by now (as would the entire human race...because moms and dads would have all been taking a dirt nap by now, too)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Life is dirty.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at least toddler/baby asses are covered with a diaper. I don't see any dogs in diapers. Cats OTOH are probably the cleanest but bringing a cat to a store is basically a death wish for the owner ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, and it has nothing to do with what other shoppers or the law would do to the cat owner!! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        how about washing your hands with soap and water? and if this were the case, we'd have day care workers and preschool teachers would be out all the time. I worked at a preschool for 2 years and other than some colds, I never contracted any of the above and neither did my co-workers. I changed diapers every work day. and no child had e coli or a parasite.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        frankly, the sickest I've ever been was when I used public transportation in SF. I was always sick with some crazy illness and I clearly contracted all of it from fellow adults on the train and bus. Not a kid in sight on those early morning commutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BTW, you know kids now get a rotavirus vaccine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My child contracted Shigella from the SAME grocery cart at the SAME grocery store used by a man who had it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Seems this man didn't wash his hands after using the toilet and my daughter was never so sick as she was throughout the whole ordeal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Shall we start vetting adults for cleanliness? Checking their hands for deadly germs because they don't know the proper way to keep themselves clean?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This whole conversation about children/diapers is ridiculous in my opinion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course there are children whose poop shouldn't come in contact with grocery store carts. But in my child's case it turned out it was the poop from the adult that was the culprit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not saying this didn't happen, but how did you determine after the fact that you had used the same shopping cart as this man, and how did you know he had the diease and that he hadn't washed his hands?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: westsidegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                #3 is the reason why I hate the plastic bag ban...... My raw meat & produce go into plastic produce bags, and then into plastic grocery bags that I've been hoarding for the ADT two years......

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Dogs! In the grocery cart?!!? I cannot imagine why pet owners would think it's ok to do this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wait, are we being punked?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. the worst of this kind of behavior that i've seen; was in a Kmart (not super, no f!ood) i saw a guy with a squirrel on a leash, sitting on this guy's back which was soaking wet with what i presumed to be squirrel pee

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. So the question is... how often do the supermarket sanitize their carts? I see them brought inside to warm temps for customer convenience...but would it be better to leave them outside to be cleaned /sanitized by the sun and rain?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                38 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Raffles

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And after reading this thread and all the sub threads, maybe the follow up question should be who still want to use the carts at the grocery store?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: viperlush

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think the bigger question is does this surprise people that they're not clean? If someone is concerned about grocery cats, they should have that concern about everything in public. People do nasty things out there. Touch money? LOL if that bugs anyone, feel free to send it to me! A friend once told me about a "gifted" stripper with her quarters...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Gah! First dogs and now grocery cats?? What has the world come to?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <<big grin>>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ratgirlagogo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Farmers keep cats around the place to keep the rats and mice in check. If you have a cat around whether she reduces the vermins or not her presence keeps them away. Same goes for any store with food. the scent of a cat is less toxic then any chemical pesticide. So live wilth nature make your choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm more concerned about a grocery store getting dander on the food, which one then eats...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (Yes, open air farmers markets also have problems with getting pollen all over food. But at least you know about it!!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ... all I really want is some disclosure, so that sensitives can avoid it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          True. And dogs are not supposed to be wandering around farmers markets either....at least here in LA. but we have so many here who feel entitled, and that laws like that don't apply to them....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So true! Here in LA, it's the rule not the exception to ignore many of the health and safety laws. Here's a partial list of things I've seen, some everyday:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dogs in stores and shopping malls
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Apartment mgmt company doing major renovation work with no permit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            City building inspector showing up for inspection & being hoodwinked by apartment manager so as not to inspect apartments being renovated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            People selling hot, homemade food on major intersections with no health dept permit or seller's permit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm not sure why people feel so entitled, but it is very prevalent in LA and no demographic is spared.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Kate is always hungry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <People selling hot, homemade food on major intersections with no health dept permit or seller's permit>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think people feel entitled because nobody's telling them they can't do it. The health department claims to be overly worked with a shortage of manpower to enforce the law. They rely on people to bring it to their attention and then MAYBE they can get around to checking it out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm seriously shocked at the amount of people doing this while driving around DT LA.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The hot food isn't only around DT LA. It's on many major intersections and on side streets in the Valley too. I see it very early in the morning near major bus stops.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Speaking of disgusting health code violations, have you noticed what the restrooms look like?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think you'll find that almost all of those street vendors are from other countries where it is legal and part of their culture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Of course, I'm pretty sure of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    However, as we all know, this is a different country with different laws.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No way to justify those carts without permits, being enabled by a less-than strict/not present health department.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's also true. I'm not saying I condone or approve it but I do understand it. I used to travel to Calexico on business and go across to Mexicali where I would buy a dozen of the best tacos I've ever had from one such vendor. I never got sick. I think the same thing applies to the vendors here; If anyone ever got sick, they would not be in business very long.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's one big 'free for all'…literally.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm seriously flabbergasted to think that dogs are brought into food establishments (against the law/code) and nobody feels (me) like they can do anything about it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The health department comes in, confronts the dog owner, and realizes they can't cite them, can't arrest them or ask them to leave because of the way the law's written.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The people bringing the dogs around these places know the law inside and out and feel totally entitled.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would think if someone were that allergic, he/she would be aware of the dangers or be dead. If someone could die from potential dander left by a dog, the world would fraught with danger and ironically, the least of which would be a dog in a shopping cart that he/she might use which you are worried about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  as I've mentioned before, allergies can often be cumulative.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The man who is fine at the beginning of the day, might not be so fine after having Vietnamese, and injesting some amount of fish sauce. He also might not be fine after going on a large walk and inhaling substantial airborne allergens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, hence the dead bodies we see from people inhaling allergens. I understand allergies. I have a daughter who is allergic to food items. But rarely is anyone so allergic to dander that he/she might die from it and if that were the case, he'd have to be living in a plastic bubble, seriously. Read up about dust in your house.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't have carpeting. I do have an industrial strength air cleaner. You might say this is rather personal for me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And, yes, I know all about dust mite allergies. (I also have a hypoallergenic bed cover, which is what most people ought to get if they even suspect dust mite allergies)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: viperlush

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my old local WF in Pasadena, CA had the grossest carts. After a wipe down the wipe would be black with dirt. The baskets were worse. I emailed them but of course, nothing happened.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: Raffles

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Most supermarkets I know of sanitize their carts once a year. Ironically for reasons unknown to me the all do it the same month, regardless of their location. Neveraury is when they all clean them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I saw something unusual the other day -- we had an unusually wet day, and all the carts were dripping wet from the rain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The local grocery had a kid standing out under the entryway with a leaf blower, drying all the carts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would guess that was to prevent them from leaking or dripping water on the already slick floors of the store, more than any attempt at sanitizing them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Dirtywextraolives


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just learned yesterday, from a friend who slipped and fell on a puddle of water in a market in LA and is injured, that she has literally no recourse…
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      She's actually seen two attorneys and both of them told her that it's nearly impossible to sue over this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The timing of the water of the floor (can they prove it was there for more than 30 minutes), the awareness of the owner that the water was there…a list of 'what ifs' and 'how can you prove its' wasn't worth the time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are apparently so many lawsuits out there over this type of thing that they've made it more difficult.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now we have store owners who are aware of this and are going to become more lax with their cleanups??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        She hasn't seen the right attorneys..... But that's encouraging, that now there s finally a push back..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had a very bad fall in a restaurant. On my way to a table, I stepped on a DumDum sucker (still in the wax paper wrapper) and fell forward. By the way, the restaurant makes a practice of handing these out to children. It happened extremely quickly and silently. The restaurant had several surveillance cameras and one was directed on the spot I fell. The manager stonewalled me when I asked for the insurance carrier's information. When I asked him to see the tape from the day of the fall, he said he didn't see anything and erased the tape.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          After two months, the pain wasn't getting better, it was getting worse! It wasn't easy to find an attorney but, finally I did. Once the attorney got involved, the restaurant cooperated. The insurance company still denied liability, so the lawyer filed a lawsuit. By this time, the statute of limitations (two years) was about to run out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It was especially frustrating for me since, not only was I physically injured, but I'd gone to law school, passed the bar and suddenly, there was now a new element to proving negligence--"notice!" This is how businesses are able to avoid most liability for accidents that happen in their facilities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There is a lot more to this story but it's not impossible to sue, it's what the insurance company forces an injured person to do to get compensated. What's very difficult is to get a lawyer to take this kind of case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Kate is always hungry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My health insurance company were trying to get me to find someone to blame when I fell on a crooked sidewalk at an out of state wedding (almost a year ago and my hand is still not right,. I declined at the time but I bet if I said yes they would have got a lawyer for me; that has happened with our car insurance. Part of their package!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I worked for Blue Cross of California from 2000 to 2005 in the Risk Management department. My unit was called "Third Party Liability." We attempted to get reimbursement from members for money paid out for treatment from accidents caused by another party. They wouldn't get you a lawyer but, if you made a claim and got a settlement, they would expect/demand reimbursement for what they paid on your behalf. (Check your benefits booklet)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In your case, the other party, is the entity who failed to maintain the "crooked sidewalk." For your health insurance to recover the money it paid, you would've had to make a claim against that city/town.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Car insurance is a different story. An insurance company will have an outside lawyer defend an insured against another driver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Kate is always hungry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my friends in the ER would like to remind folks that if you get injured in a car, it's car insurance first, and then health insurance.