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Trying to get into rum...

jaba Mar 12, 2014 10:03 AM

Knowing there is a whole world out there of various types of rums, I've bought a few recommended ones that are known for being good values. My question is, given how different they are, what are the best uses to help them shine:
-Wray & Nephew Overproof
-Barbancourt 5 star

I tried a combination of these two in a daiquiri and it didn't quite work, but I'm willing to try again.

Other thoughts?

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  1. mcsheridan RE: jaba Mar 12, 2014 10:41 AM

    My experience with Rhum Barbancourt 5 star is that it's at its best neat, over ice, or chilled as a sipping rum. Not a mixer.

    I have not had the Wray & Nephew Overproof, but from its description, this feels like something that could work well in punches, a Mai-tai, or a Daiquiri,but might be a bit much for a Mojito (where a lighter rum would be perfect.)

    1. Veggo RE: jaba Mar 12, 2014 10:50 AM

      You won't learn about them by combining them. I suggest a small sampler of each with a single ice cube. See how you like the underlying flavor before you fruit them up.

      1 Reply
      1. re: Veggo
        scubadoo97 RE: Veggo Apr 14, 2014 02:08 PM

        I agree. Taste them on their own first.

        At 90 proof and with all that sugar it's like drinking soda pop

      2. n
        ncyankee101 RE: jaba Mar 12, 2014 11:50 AM

        Well for one you picked two very atypical rums to start with. The Barbancourt is a cane juice rum (most are made from molasses) and the aging gives this one a very Cognac-like taste.

        The Wray and Nephew is a unique white rum, one of the best of its kind but definitely a far cry from most. Besides being 126 proof, it is also one of the most flavorful white rums around, with a grassy / banana character. Try it neat with about half as much water to bring the proof down into the 80s, or add an ice cube - it's an interesting rum to sip.

        1 Reply
        1. re: ncyankee101
          ted RE: ncyankee101 Mar 13, 2014 09:30 AM

          I haven't had it in a long time, but I think the Wray & Nephew Overproof has a lot of sugarcane character. It's just a matter of getting the proportions right so that your cocktail isn't overly stiff.

        2. Boston_Otter RE: jaba Mar 13, 2014 08:05 AM

          If you're mixing rums in a daiquiri or other tropical drinks, honestly, the quality isn't going to make a huge difference, especially if you're just getting started. I like to use a decent dark rum (Gosling's, usually) and a decent light rum (a bottle of Tortuga I got on a cruise) that aren't very pricey.

          If you're looking for a good sipping rum, that's a different story. The Rhum Barbancourt is nice as-is. My favorite is Ron Zacapa 23 -- the stuff's like candy.

          17 Replies
          1. re: Boston_Otter
            JMF RE: Boston_Otter Mar 13, 2014 08:38 AM

            Personally I disagree. The quality of the ingredients determines the quality of the cocktail.

            1. re: JMF
              StriperGuy RE: JMF Mar 13, 2014 09:18 AM

              JMF, I'll side with Boston Otter on this one. IMHO you can't use plonk in a cocktail, but much of the subtlety of a really high end spirit is lost when you put it in a cocktail or other mixed drink.

              As soon as there is citrus, or multiple different strong ingredients involved I find, particularly with something as subtle say as Barbancourt it is VERY difficult for the average drinker to discern the difference between the Barbancourt three star, five star, and say a MUCH less expensive cachacha (also a cane rum).

              My own recent experience with Michter's Rye in a Sazerac is a perfect example. I love the Michter's straight on with a bit of ice; I just couldn't taste its presence in the Sazerac. It made much more sense to stick with Old Overholt, ($17/L) or certainly Wild Turkey Rye or Bulleit ($26-$30 750ml) rather than the $40 (750ML) for the Michter's.

              1. re: StriperGuy
                Boston_Otter RE: StriperGuy Mar 13, 2014 01:05 PM

                Thank you for the clarification -- what I probably should have said was "high quality isn't going to make a huge difference". If you use rum poured out of a plastic bottle with a handle you got off the bottom shelf at Kappy's, you'll definitely taste the rotgut in your daiquiri. But the difference between a $40 bottle and a $70 bottle when mixed with pineapple juice, lime, and grenadine will be negligible at best.

                1. re: Boston_Otter
                  StriperGuy RE: Boston_Otter Mar 13, 2014 01:14 PM

                  Heck I picked up a handle of Gosling's for $26 a while back. Use that 30/70 with Cruzan light or dark ($19.99 a handle some times) makes a pretty fine Daiquiri or Mai Tai.

                  1. re: StriperGuy
                    Raffles RE: StriperGuy Mar 17, 2014 01:48 PM

                    Cruzan dark is always in our house, good value,decent taste.

                  2. re: Boston_Otter
                    ncyankee101 RE: Boston_Otter Mar 13, 2014 01:30 PM

                    Actually I have a couple plastic 1.75 ltr bottles of Doorly's 5 yr I got at Total Wine for $20. It's a very good rum.

                  3. re: StriperGuy
                    tomjb27 RE: StriperGuy Mar 13, 2014 08:04 PM

                    I feel Old Overholt is not very good in cocktails in general, which I ascribe to its relative low proof. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, but i always find it to be bland and washed out. When I am out, I never order any classic cocktail anymore if it lists an 80 proof whiskey as the base. But I've had many happy experiences with higher proof less expensive whiskeys (Old Weller Antique, Rittenhouse), so your overall point is not lost on me.

                    1. re: tomjb27
                      EvergreenDan RE: tomjb27 Mar 14, 2014 06:05 AM

                      This might depend upon the recipe. The more low-proof ingredients (by volume), the more the base spirit needs to be bold and high proof. An 80 spirit can make a great Martini or Manhattan, and in fact a higher-proof one might need extra stirring.

                      I disagree with JMF a little. Subtle, luxurious ingredients tend to wash out in a complex cocktail. That young, harsh rye might be better than your smooth sipper, once you add Punt e Mes and Green Chartreuse.


                      1. re: EvergreenDan
                        StriperGuy RE: EvergreenDan Mar 14, 2014 07:01 AM

                        Inspired by this thread I made a Mai Tai last night:
                        (Proportions are approximate as I just eyeball it)

                        - 1 oz Cruzan Light
                        - .5 oz Goslings dark
                        - .25 oz Old Monk
                        - Good pinch of microplaned lime zest which I let set with the spirits while I prepare everything else
                        - Juice of 1/2 a very large lime
                        - 2 tablespoons fresh pomelo juice (has a nice smoothing influence)
                        - 1-2 tsp Fabbri Orzata (awesome stuff I picked up in Italy)
                        - .5 tsp Luxardo amaretto
                        - 2 generous dashes homemade Falernum
                        - 2-3 tsp Cointreau

                        Shake and enjoy. I prefer Mai Tais on the rocks. I'll be damned if a better Mai Tai can be made with any ingredients.

                        I've got some El Dorado 15 in the cabinet and I couldn't pick that out or likely taste it at all in such a complex drink. Nevermind that I don't prefer a Mai Tai with all dark rum...

                        1. re: StriperGuy
                          nickls RE: StriperGuy Mar 16, 2014 06:03 PM

                          That might have made for a good drink, but for me a Mai Tai is all about the rums, which specifically have to be a Jamaican and a Martinique Agricole or it's just not the real thing.

                          I've been to too many bars where a Mai Tai is made with a huge pour of Myers Dark and tastes nothing like a proper Mai Tai which is really a very specific blend of ingredients.

                          Also, I would have to disagree about Daiquiris and good rum. A daiquiri is all about the rum, as the only other ingredients are lime and a little bit of sugar. A Daiquiri will usually showcase the elements of a rum whether good or bad, as most rums are not really made for sipping straight anyway.

                          But to go back to the OP, JWray overproof isn't good for sipping straight or making Daiquiris, and is best for specific uses like making Falernum or drinking with Ting. Barbancourt can make for a mighty fine Daiquiri, Mojito, or plenty of other uses even though it's not the prototypical white rum that would be used in those drinks.

                          1. re: nickls
                            Veggo RE: nickls Mar 16, 2014 06:08 PM

                            A visit to El Floridita will enable one to connect to the original Daiquiri at a wide, beautiful mahogany bar. And to La Bodeguita del Medio for the mojito, where at any time a couple dozen glasses on the bar are muddling mint.

                            1. re: nickls
                              StriperGuy RE: nickls Mar 17, 2014 01:26 PM

                              The inclusion of Rhum Agricole is far from definitive:


                              Though I won't fault you on the Jamaican Rum.

                              In general I like a combination of light and dark, and the rum should have some age on them.

                            2. re: StriperGuy
                              The Big Crunch RE: StriperGuy Mar 21, 2014 09:09 PM

                              You can call any drink anything you want, but there is a standard recipe for a Mai Tai, and it doesn't look a thing like that. Not saying you're doesn't look good, but it's like some saying they're going to make cheesesteak, but using roast turkey, sliced tomatoes, dijonaise, and wilted spinach between two pieces of sourdough.

                              1. re: The Big Crunch
                                Ernestbeaumont RE: The Big Crunch Mar 24, 2014 12:00 PM

                                Although I agree that it's definitely not a Maita'i, In striperguy's defense, it could easily be called a Mai tai swizzle variation. Don the beachcombers less successful response to trader Vic's Maita'i...

                                1. re: Ernestbeaumont
                                  StriperGuy RE: Ernestbeaumont Mar 24, 2014 01:09 PM

                                  There are 11 Mai Tai variations in link!

                            3. re: EvergreenDan
                              tomjb27 RE: EvergreenDan Mar 14, 2014 04:59 PM

                              Very interesting point. Are you saying that if I were to make a Manhattan with Old Overholt rather than my preferred Rittenhouse, I should adjust the recipe (upping the spirit ratio) or adjust the dilution? I can't see adjusting the dilution (in this case less dilution) working because it would impact all the ingredients. Do people tweak the recipe? It hasn't been my experience when drinking a Manhattan made with Old Overholt or Jim Beam, for example, that anything was done to compensate for the lower proof. This might just come down to personal preference.

                              1. re: tomjb27
                                EvergreenDan RE: tomjb27 Mar 18, 2014 06:06 PM

                                Yes. A Manhattan made with 120 proof Hardy rye is going to need more than the usual amount of sweet vermouth (or some water) to keep it from being fierce.

                                Conversely, a recipe developed with Rittenhouse 100 may well not work with Old Overholt due solely to alcohol content.

                                This is why overproof spirits are so useful. You can always add water or other ingredients, but it's tough to go the other way.

                                Similarly, a very bold spirit can be easier to mix with than a elegant, subtle one.


                    2. c
                      CaptCrunch RE: jaba Mar 21, 2014 10:26 PM

                      I tend to agree with the rest of the group. If you are planning on mixing your rum I would recommend to buy a general "non premium/non cheap" rum to start with. "Sipping liquor" and "mixing liquor" are usually not the same thing. The brand comes through more in the short drinks than long drinks but its usually safer to start with a solid mixing rum.

                      If it were me I might try to replace whisky/bourbon drinks with rhum and see where it leads. Why not a sour rhum? Here are some ideas (everyone does it differently so my recipes are just an indicaiton

                      Sour Rhum Cocktail:

                      *1 1/2 ounce of rhum
                      *1 ounce of fresh lemon juice (use fresh lemon for that!)
                      *3/4 ounce of simple sirup (simple sirup is 2 times white granulated sugar for 1 time water, put in microwave if not fully disolved)
                      *The white of one egg

                      *Assemble in a shaker
                      *Shake without ice for a bit for emulsify the egg white (also called a "dry shake")
                      *Add ice and shake until cold (top shaker with ice, never shy on ice, buy twice the ice bags and go to town with it)
                      *Serve as you want (I serve it on the rocks)

                      NB: The rhum is typically sweeter than whisky so if it taste off you might want to knock the simple sirup down to 1/2 ounce.

                      Rum old fashion

                      *1 cube of cane sugar
                      *1 ounce of water
                      *a few dashes of Angostura bitter
                      *1 quarter sized round of orange peel
                      * 2 ounces of brown rum

                      *Put the sugar cube in a whiskey tumbler
                      *Saturate the cube with augostura bitter
                      *add about 1 ounce of water
                      *Muddle to make sure the sugar is fully disolved
                      *Add orange peel
                      *Muddle the orange peel in the syrup
                      *Add ice in the glass to top it off
                      *Add 2 ounce of rum (my friend takes his with 3 ounces!)
                      *Mix lightly

                      Rum crusta

                      *2 ounces brown or dark rum
                      *1/2 ounce Maraschino Liquor
                      *1/2 ounce Triple Sec/Cointreau (I sometimes sub for Grand Marnier and call it a "crusta deluxe!")
                      *1/2 oz lemon juice (please use fresh lemon!)

                      *Mix in a mixer
                      *Add ice
                      *Pour in a whiskey tumbler on the rocks

                      4 Replies
                      1. re: CaptCrunch
                        The Big Crunch RE: CaptCrunch Mar 24, 2014 01:17 PM

                        For cocktails, I think choosing to buy rum purely based on the price is missing the point. Rum varies so wildly in flavor (much like Scotch) that if you're really serious about rum cocktails you'll want to buy according to flavor profile. I think that in general, a good white rum (I use Cruzan aged white, less than $20 a handle) and a decent darker Jamaican rum (maybe Appleton 12) would take care of most of your basic needs. However, as you get more into it, you'll find that certain drinks really shine with a rhum agricole or that a Demerara noticeably changes a drink. Obviously price can be a challenge depending on how much you care to spend, but making it your main criteria for buying rums is a bit of a mistake IMO.

                        As far as the OP's original post... Those are sort've an odd combo of bottles with which to start learning about rum, and I wouldn't use either in a daiquiri. For the Brabancourt, I'd suggest drinking it neat and watered down to taste, or over an ice cube. I've also had some good results subbing it in for brandy in a brandy crusta.

                        1. re: The Big Crunch
                          StriperGuy RE: The Big Crunch Mar 24, 2014 05:58 PM

                          Totally agree and love ANY Demerara...

                        2. re: CaptCrunch
                          FriedClamFanatic RE: CaptCrunch Apr 29, 2014 12:29 PM

                          Gawd..I love the term, "muddle".it's perfect!

                          1. re: FriedClamFanatic
                            Veggo RE: FriedClamFanatic Apr 29, 2014 12:51 PM

                            Get ready to muddle mint for juleps this Saturday - Derby Day!

                        3. j
                          jaba RE: jaba Mar 24, 2014 06:09 PM

                          Thanks all. Good advice in here. However, I have found two drinks in which these shine:
                          For the Barbancourt: http://www.kindredcocktails.com/cockt...

                          For the Wray & Nephew: http://www.kindredcocktails.com/cockt...

                          4 Replies
                          1. re: jaba
                            The Big Crunch RE: jaba Mar 24, 2014 07:50 PM

                            Thanks for posting the links to those - they sound great and I can't wait to try them! EvergreenDan won't be happy with me for saying this, but I don't use Kindredcocktails nearly enough. He's created a great resource for drinks and these are two that will definitely bring it back to my radar when I'm thinking about what to make on a given night.

                            1. re: The Big Crunch
                              jaba RE: The Big Crunch Mar 25, 2014 06:19 AM

                              I *love* Kindredcocktails. There are few things that are actually life-changing. His site is one of them. As my wife said "you've picked up a lot of hobbies in the time that I've known you. Cocktail making is by far the best one." Between the recommended brands list, discussion of individual spirit types, and often extensive reviews of individual recipes, Kindred is a daily visit for me. I only wish there was a mobile version of the site.

                              1. re: jaba
                                The Big Crunch RE: jaba Mar 25, 2014 06:59 AM

                                Yarm's site is similar for me. I've made dozens of drinks from cocktailvirgin, and when I make things from other books and sites, I almost always check their site to see what they have to say about it. I've even made specific booze purchases based on his site (Lustao oloroso and amontillado a few days ago actually). Hell, I've even adopted some of his language in my own notes that I make about most of the cocktails I make. The other day I was telling my GF how "the maraschino really comes out on the swallow" when describing a terrific drink at the Nomad in NYC and she just looked at me like I was crazy, but that's honestly one of the ways I go about looking for and describing tastes in a drink now. It's wonderful to have some of the online cocktail resources available to us in the 21st century, ain't it? :)

                                1. re: jaba
                                  EvergreenDan RE: jaba Mar 25, 2014 12:38 PM


                                  From a smartphone, click the HOME icon to return to the full desktop version. The default mobile version is a stripped down, just the facts ma'am version.

                                  A new upgrade is in the works which will have a "responsive design", where the size of your screen is taken into account in how the pages look.

                                  As for Big Crunch, a knuckle-dragger is en route to your house. ;)

                            2. k
                              kwhitney RE: jaba Apr 28, 2014 01:12 PM

                              neither of those are good for just getting started.

                              Buy some Plantation dark, and make a Daiquiri using 2 1/2 oz rum, 3/4 oz lime, and 1/2 oz simple. The Plantation is a little sweet and easy to drink. After that, branch out to the smokier Rums, like Demerara's El Dorado 12 or 15 are both great.

                              8 Replies
                              1. re: kwhitney
                                jaba RE: kwhitney Apr 29, 2014 08:53 AM

                                I actually just picked up some El Dorado 3 and that made a lovely daiquiri.

                                1. re: jaba
                                  ncyankee101 RE: jaba Apr 29, 2014 09:16 AM

                                  ED 3 yr is an excellent white rum - and you need a white rum to make a proper daiquiri. You can make a nice drink with lime juice and dark rum, but it's not a daiquiri.

                                  1. re: ncyankee101
                                    JMF RE: ncyankee101 Apr 29, 2014 09:30 AM

                                    You do know that white rums are just 1-3 year aged rums that are filtered clear? I'm pretty sure that the ED 3 yr White is their dark rum filtered. (I'll ask them next week when I sit down with them for a meeting.)

                                    1. re: JMF
                                      kwhitney RE: JMF Apr 29, 2014 09:43 AM

                                      Yes, and they filter out the flavor. I have always thought this to be a strange category. Like Tequila copy catting.

                                      1. re: JMF
                                        ncyankee101 RE: JMF Apr 29, 2014 09:43 AM

                                        I'm aware of that - but the 3 yr ED has a vastly different flavor than even their 5 yr. Of course, all the EDs are different blends, not just more or less aged versions of the same rum, so it is hard to do a direct comparison, but the 5-8-12-15 all have some similar characteristics while the 3 yr is completely different.

                                        1. re: ncyankee101
                                          JMF RE: ncyankee101 Apr 29, 2014 09:46 AM

                                          I'll see what details I can get.

                                        2. re: JMF
                                          StriperGuy RE: JMF Apr 29, 2014 10:07 AM

                                          Huh, learn something new every day...

                                      2. re: jaba
                                        JMF RE: jaba Apr 29, 2014 09:31 AM

                                        I use ED 3 yr. white as my house white rum at all places I consult too or manage.

                                    2. k
                                      kwhitney RE: jaba Apr 29, 2014 09:20 AM

                                      That's crazy talk. There is a huge difference between a daiquiri with white rum and dark. They are both daiquiris.

                                      10 Replies
                                      1. re: kwhitney
                                        ncyankee101 RE: kwhitney Apr 29, 2014 09:48 AM

                                        Every credible recipe and article I have ever read calls for light rum in daiquiris and mojitos. Of course it is a matter of preference what you use,

                                        1. re: ncyankee101
                                          kwhitney RE: ncyankee101 Apr 29, 2014 09:58 AM

                                          Yes, I have only seen the dark rum recipe from Jeffery Morganthaller, which is where I picked it up, and there is no looking back. I am continually surprised that every recipe I have seen (except this) requires white rum, and it just plain not as good.

                                          You might check out Jeffery's video on how "not" to make a Daiquiri.

                                          1. re: kwhitney
                                            ncyankee101 RE: kwhitney Apr 29, 2014 10:19 AM

                                            Note that I wasn't saying I disagree with you - I prefer aged rum in almost everything, and aged tequila in margaritas - just that convention wouldn't usually call that a daiquiri.

                                            1. re: ncyankee101
                                              kwhitney RE: ncyankee101 Apr 29, 2014 10:22 AM

                                              I guess I am looser with my Daiquiri definition than you. Incidentally, I love Margaritas, but prefer those made with Silver Tequila.

                                              1. re: kwhitney
                                                ncyankee101 RE: kwhitney Apr 29, 2014 10:29 AM

                                                Actually, my preferences can vary on a day-to-day basis, and that goes for sipping tequila neat too. Somedays are blanco days, some are anejos.

                                                As far as the daiquiri, I am not a huge fan because it seems I am hyper-sensitive to lime juice. I always dial down recipes by about 1/3, and even then I generally avoid drinks where it is the only modifier. Mai tais are my favorite rum drink by far.

                                              2. re: ncyankee101
                                                EvergreenDan RE: ncyankee101 Apr 29, 2014 11:54 AM

                                                @ncyank - I went dark and came back. I used to like a reposado or anejo in a Margarita, but I found that the triple sec and acid overpowered the peppery flavor of the tequila. A blanco has a fighting chance. Try it if you haven't in a while.

                                                StriperGuy's gonna cry if you use a dark rum in a Mojito. ;)


                                                1. re: EvergreenDan
                                                  ncyankee101 RE: EvergreenDan Apr 29, 2014 12:15 PM

                                                  Dan - a marg really is a different drink with aged tequila, I usually increase the ratio just for the reason you described. Or I just sip it neat, which is what I do the most.

                                                  1. re: EvergreenDan
                                                    StriperGuy RE: EvergreenDan Apr 29, 2014 04:43 PM

                                                    Yesss, though I'm a bit more agnostic on dark rum in a dai qui ri.

                                                    1. re: StriperGuy
                                                      EvergreenDan RE: StriperGuy Apr 30, 2014 07:48 AM

                                                      Dark rum and tonic with plenty of lime is a nice G&T alternative, BTW.

                                                      1. re: EvergreenDan
                                                        StriperGuy RE: EvergreenDan Apr 30, 2014 08:16 AM

                                                        Agreed, as a youth, one of my standard drinks was Myers and soda with a lime. Not a bad choice when you are ordering in a bar that might screw up something more complicated.

                                          2. f
                                            FriedClamFanatic RE: jaba Apr 29, 2014 12:24 PM

                                            For something a little different.......Equal parts Dark spiced Rum (cheapo will do)......Coca-Cola and Pineapple juice.......add a splash of bitters and a dash of nutmeg and serve over ice

                                            Really GOOD Rum......like what I had in Barbados..............should be sipped.........over one or 2 ice cubes

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