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Is a hot dog a sandwich?

This came up recently. I say it's not, and and conferring sandwich-hood upon every snack involving bread and protein sets a dangerous precedent.

Your thoughts?

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  1. Technically, even though it really is in a class of its own.

    1. I'd call it a "pocket" since the roll is a contiguous piece of bread - much like a pita pocket.The real misnomer is the "open face sandwich" which makes no sense whatsoever.
      CP

      1. Sandwiches don't have to have protein. But yes...a hot dog in a bun is a sandwich.

        1. I'd say no. A sandwich needs to have a filling "sandwiched" between two pieces of bread. A hot dog bun is split and the dog nestles in the bread rather than being sandwiched.

          22 Replies
            1. re: acgold7

              I think it's more about the bread being above and below the filling, as opposed to being on each side of the filling. People don't eat a hot dog with the hinge on the side.

              1. re: calumin

                Well, you do if you are eating laying down, on your side....
                Then it becomes a sandwich.
                :D

                1. re: calumin

                  Well that would depend on how you're holding it, wouldn't it? What if you ate a sub roll with the split on top- does that make it Not a Sandwich?

                  Besides, maybe i'm awfully late to the game, but until very recently I always ate hot dogs with the split part of the bun on the side.

                  1. re: calumin

                    First, I've seen many eat a Hot dog sideways.

                    Second, does that mean a Lobster Roll is not a Sandwich.

                    1. re: fourunder

                      Correct. A lobster roll is also not a sandwich.

                        1. re: jpc8015

                          It's a sandwich. No question. But maybe this is a regional thing, with heroes and buns in some kind of different category than sliced loaves?

                          But just for example, it didn't shock me to read this
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobster_...

                          I'm going to edit to say: I'm not sure anyone ever orders a Lobster Roll SANDWICH, but unless it's a big house specialty you will usually find it on the sandwich portion of the menu, at least around here.

                          1. re: The Professor

                            "Getting"?????? It's passed that point days ago.....

                              1. re: LotusRapper

                                Hmmm...I think you're right.
                                It probably jumped the shark after the very first response ...which was probably the best and most sensible one. LOL

                      1. re: calumin

                        I always eat a hot dog with the hinge on the side.

                        I have never thought about this before. I may be weird.

                        1. re: jw615

                          If it is loaded with a lot of loose toppings (e.g. Chicago style), then hinge side down may be the best choice. Unless you want to smoosh the bun to wrap it around the toppings.

                          Maybe we should call that an open-faced hot dog.

                          1. re: paulj

                            It probably helps that on the rare occasion that I choose to eat a hot dog, I don't really do much for toppings. Some onion is all that I need.

                    2. re: Paprikaboy

                      "A sandwich needs to have a filling "sandwiched" between two pieces of bread. A hot dog bun is split and the dog nestles in the bread rather than being sandwiched."

                      So following that logic, is a pita not a sandwich?

                      1. re: PotatoHouse

                        A pita is a flat piece of bread, PotatoHouse.

                        1. re: knucklesandwich

                          A pita is also a sandwich made from said bread, as pictured below.

                           
                          1. re: PotatoHouse

                            I've gotten the impression that splitting a pita and filling the pocket is an American idea. Folding a whole pita around the filling is more typical of the eastern Mediterranean.

                            http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodsandw...
                            "In fact, Montague was not the inventor of the sandwich; rather, during his excursions in the Eastern Mediterranean, he saw grilled pita breads and small canapes and sandwiches served by the Greeks and Turks during their mezes, and copied the concept for its obvious convenience."

                            1. re: paulj

                              I suppose it is uncommon to wrap a whole pita around a filling in the US, but it is not at all uncommon outside of the US (e.g. in the Eastern Med) to split it open and fill the pocket. I think you'll get puzzled looks (or worse) if you try to tell them they're doing things the American way…

                              1. re: DeppityDawg

                                We have both here. Y'all have Pita Pit down there right ?

                                http://pitapitusa.com/our-team/

                                They wrap the whole pita around the filling, like as if it was a tortilla.

                                But pita pockets are just as common:

                                http://www.seamless.com/finedining/im...

                                A gyro is *usually* seen with the whole pita wrapped around the filling, closed up by the wax paper. If split and filled inside the pocket, I think the chance of the bottom breaking open is high, esp. if sauces are in there:

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_(food)

                        2. re: PotatoHouse

                          What if I split the hot dog bun in two halves (I often do) ? ;-)

                      2. Yes a hot dog is a sandwich, of which the frankfurter and bun are components; as well as the condiments, but they (condiments) are not specifically part of the definition.

                        1. I'd say no.
                          I'm thinking like Paprika, you need two distinct pieces of bread to make a sandwich.

                          11 Replies
                          1. re: porker

                            So then how would you define it?

                            Ever grab a slice of protein, lay it on a piece of bread, fold it in half and bite into it?

                            1. re: PHREDDY

                              So, for arguments sake, a slice of cold spam on Wonder Bread is a sandwich, but a foot long, all-beef grilled Hummels, adorned with relish, mustard, and diced onions, on a toasted bun, doesn't qualify?
                              That logic is as goofy as our prison system.

                              1. re: Veggo

                                Again to clarify, the condiments are clearly part of any sandwich, (hot dog) but are not necessary to define it, you can load it up or have it plain, with the basic components it is still a sandwich.

                            2. re: porker

                              So, if I take a kaiser roll and slice it and fill with roast beef, letuce, etc. it's not a sandwich? Buit if it's on two slices of rye bread it is a sandwich.

                              I don't agree with your logic.

                              BTW: I don't use New England style hot dog rolls, I use side split, I open them flat to grill and they generall split apart into two distinct pieces. When I put the hot dog betwen themI consider it a sandwich.

                                1. re: bagelman01

                                  Lets say you stopped by your buddy's place for a coupla beers on a pleasant Sunday afternoon. After a bit of palavering, your buddy comes back from the kitchen with wieners between sliced bread.
                                  Chances are said buddy would call it a hot-dog sandwich (unless he lives down the block from me, then it would be "sangwich").
                                  If he came back with a wiener in a bun, it'd likely be called a hot dog and "sandwich" wouldn't enter the repartee.

                                  1. re: porker

                                    Maybe all sandwiches are "bread stuffed with things"....but not all "bread stuffed with things" are sandwiches? :D

                                    Or...maybe hot dogs should just be considered "dog centered sandwiches"?

                                    Something to spend all day thinking about, to be sure..... :)

                                    1. re: porker

                                      I guess your neighborhood is Italo-Amercican based on the sangwich.

                                      The chance of me having a coupla beers is nil and my buddy woud never call that sausage a weiner. I'd be eating a frankfurter sandwich if it was served on a bun or between slices of bread. If on a plate with no bread, but beans, kraut or slaw it would be a frank,

                                      There is no right or wrong, just regional/neighbor hood differences in the nomenclature.

                                      1. re: bagelman01

                                        In my hood...

                                        It would be a nice *glass of local wine* with that *Hot Dog*..... the works please...(mayo, mustard, ketchup, chopped onion).
                                        Side of Tim's Cascade chips :)

                                      2. re: porker

                                        LOL- my husband and son have their own pronunciations- son calls it a "sangwich" and DH calls it a "sand wedge". And he doesn't even golf.

                                        1. re: EWSflash

                                          You know it has been said that in 500 years you will need an interpreter for a person from NY to talk to a person from California!!!
                                          tomato, tomatoe...let's call the whole thing off.....

                                  2. It is a mini sausage hogie!

                                      1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                        And sausage and pepper is a sandwich, so there you go.

                                      2. I don't consider it a sandwich.

                                        But I don't call a burger a sandwich either, or a pita.

                                        These bread and fillings "things" have developed into a separate class by themselves.....they deserve distinction ;)

                                        1. If we really want to be pedantic about it, I would say a hot dog is one of the many "genera" in the "family" of sandwiches.

                                          And a dirty water dog is a "species" of the hot dog genus, as is the Chicago dog.

                                          And the hamburger would be another genus in the family of sandwiches. With a slider being one of the species of the hamburger genus.

                                          4 Replies
                                          1. re: ipsedixit

                                            If I were taking yet another standardized test, and the question was "is a hot dog an animal, vegetable, mineral, or sandwich?" I would check the sandwich box.

                                            1. re: Veggo

                                              it certainly wouldn't be in the milk box..........................
                                              showing our age

                                              1. Technically, I suppose.

                                                But it really is sui generis

                                                1. There was a court case that ruled that a taco was not a sandwich. That case involved a non-competition clause involving a sandwich chain and a former employee who opened at taco shop.

                                                  I have not heard any such case involving hot dogs.

                                                  If we are going to balk at hotdogs, how about subs or other 'sandwiches' using split buns? Lobster roll? Is a round bun ok, but an elongated one not?

                                                  10 Replies
                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                    I agree with that ruling. Now a torta, that's a sandwich.

                                                    And I side with the folks that say sandwiches can be on a split roll, whether long or round.

                                                    1. re: charlesbois

                                                      not really...but we get it...even though I am a plumber (with law school..)

                                                    2. re: paulj

                                                      If you are referring to the MA case involving Panera, for whom Chris Schlesinger was called as an expert witness, it was wraps, not tacos. I disagree with him - I think a wrap IS a sandwich. So is a hot dog and a burger.

                                                        1. re: grampart

                                                          quote from the judge:
                                                          “A sandwich is not commonly understood to include burritos, tacos, and quesadillas, which are typically made with a single tortilla and stuffed with a choice filling of meat, rice, and beans.”

                                                          So it was actually a non-competition lease clause - whether Qdoba was a 'sandwich shop' that would compete with Panera.

                                                          I think the ruling would have been different if the new shop had been Papaya King.

                                                        2. re: greygarious

                                                          A wrap is just a taco with different (no-traditiional) fillings

                                                          1. re: TroyTempest

                                                            I think the general consensus of wraps goes something like this: http://winterwheat1.com/wp-content/up...

                                                            1. re: LotusRapper

                                                              That's a picture of a wrap. Your point is?
                                                              I should have said a wrap is a burrito with non-traditional filling.
                                                              And a burrito, is just a big taco, wrapped up.

                                                            2. re: TroyTempest

                                                              Since I avoid white flour and am not fond of the only whole wheat hot dog rolls in my supermarket, I buy whole wheat (or whole grain) lavash and roll my frankfurter into it. Holds the toppings pretty well, to boot. .

                                                              I don't know WHAT to call that. Nor do I really care. Hope I'm posting late enough at night that reading this doesn't make the true believers lose sleep! ;-)

                                                              1. re: greygarious

                                                                "I buy whole wheat (or whole grain) lavash and roll my frankfurter into it. Holds the toppings pretty well, to boot."

                                                                You have the beginnings of what's called a "Tunnbrödsrulle" :-D

                                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPCytf...

                                                        3. What about an italian sausage sandwich on an elongated roll? This seems to fall between a conventional sandwich on more or less rectangular bread, and a hot dog. What are the factors that make it a sandwich or not? The length to width ratio of the bun? The hinged bun? Whether the sausage is split? Whether condiments are piled on the open side rather than merely slathered on the bread first?

                                                          I'd say it's a kind of sandwich even though nobody calls it that. If you want a hot dog you'll ask for a hot dog. But if someone does call it a sandwich, how is that dangerous?

                                                          1. The New Shorter Oxford writes that a "sandwich" is "two or more ... slices of bread with a ... savoury filling between them." But then it writes that a "hot dog" is "a hot frankfurter sandwiched in a soft roll."

                                                            2 Replies
                                                              1. re: jpc8015

                                                                The NSE said "usually." I elided it to simplify the definition to its essentials, because I didn't think anyone would quibble about this point.

                                                            1. Of course it's a sandwich.
                                                              It's a variety of sausage sandwich.

                                                              Why on earth wouldn't it be considered a sandwich???

                                                              4 Replies
                                                              1. re: The Professor

                                                                Because it is on a" mini "hogie submarine hero torpedo bun!

                                                                1. re: The Professor

                                                                  I am so glad you gave us the answer to this, some of us have been spinning our wheels here for hours! :D

                                                                  1. re: sedimental

                                                                    LOL< It is only my opinion, I could be wrong, but you are right, we have been spinning our wheels about this!

                                                                  2. re: The Professor

                                                                    A hot dog is not a sausage sandwich. A sausage sandwich consists of:
                                                                    2 slices of white bread.
                                                                    3 pork sausages split down the middle.
                                                                    Butter
                                                                    HP sauce.
                                                                    Anything else is merely a pretender:)

                                                                      1. re: emu48

                                                                        yeah...but he wears a yarmulke!!! LOL

                                                                        1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                          HEY! Don't make fun of my Pope! It's not a yarmulke, it's a zucchetto.....

                                                                          1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                            What ever you call it, I think it was designed to hide a bald spot.

                                                                        1. re: ebchower

                                                                          A buddy doesn't call them hot dogs. He calls them "lips, snouts, and assholes". But he eats them anyway.

                                                                          1. re: EWSflash

                                                                            That's because he's not eating a kosher hot dog. No assholes (hindquarter)...........................

                                                                          2. re: ebchower

                                                                            My very smart cat, Leroy with beautiful green eyes, would not eat a hot dog. Lobster doggie bag, yes.

                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                              Who the heck ever has a lobster doggie bag???

                                                                              1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                Tigger, Leroy, Magnum, Archie, Latchkey, and Little Veggo.

                                                                          3. I like to think about definitions in terms of prototypes. What's the most iconic 'sandwich'? What would you have drawn as a 3rd grader? 2 slices of wonder bread with slices of deli meat and cheese in between? How far can you deviate from that icon and still call it a 'sandwich'?

                                                                            Replace the sliced bread with a split english muffin? with a kaiser roll? A hot dog bun? pita bread?

                                                                            Replace the slice meat and cheese with tube steak? How about tuna/egg/chicken salad?

                                                                            Hinge on the side? Does the wonder bread sandwich change it's identity when held differently?

                                                                            9 Replies
                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                              So far Paul, I think you win for inches of column length,I haven't counted the words , but I think you have it! And BTW, all good questions that I am sure will drag this thread out for days!

                                                                              1. re: Raffles

                                                                                Paulj wins the prize...and it is a hot dog sandwich!
                                                                                Okay....see? That just doesn't sound right.

                                                                                1. re: sedimental

                                                                                  But people apparently did used to call it that. Two quotations from the OED (s.v. hot dog):

                                                                                  1901 National Mag. Nov. 168/2 He seated him upon a high stool and presented him with a ‘hot dog sandwich’.
                                                                                  1917 E. A. Guest Just Folks 68 Though twenty miles seem far to us, it's just a hop to them Who yearn for hot dog sandwiches at two o'clock A. M.

                                                                                  1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                    (Not attacking post or sources; honest question)

                                                                                    wondering if these were before the advent of the "hot dog bun", if the hot dogs at this the time of these quotes were actually eaten between two slices of bread. I would be interested to know.

                                                                                    1. re: PotatoHouse

                                                                                      History accounts vary, but serving sausages (Frankfurters, Weiners) on rolls can be traced to the 1870s or 80s. The name hotdog seems to date from the 1890s

                                                                                      http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/n...

                                                                                      Lots of old quotes here.

                                                                                      also
                                                                                      http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wor...

                                                                              2. re: paulj

                                                                                "What would you have drawn as a 3rd grader? 2 slices of wonder bread with slices of deli meat and cheese in between?"

                                                                                Not a chance in hell. Matbe that's what you might have drawn in whitebread America, But in my Jewish-American neighborhood my third grade drawing would have been a high mound of pastrami or corned beef on a seeded hard roll or rye or pumpernickel with cole slaw peeking out. You can be sure that it wouldn't have been on Wonder or any other bagged supermarket white bread (we weren't allowed to eat white bread-no nutritional value or fiber) and no way there would have been meat and cheese on the same sandwich., if not eaten as toast for breakfats they were only used as the base for opened face tuna melts....................

                                                                                As for Thomas' English muffins

                                                                                1. re: paulj

                                                                                  As long as there some type of bread surrounding a filling, enabling the eater to pick it up to eat without itensils, I'm comfortable with "sandwich," whether it is customarily called that or not.

                                                                                  The problem with this definition is that there are a few mutant varieties that lack bread. For example, In-n-Out has a variant of a hamburger without a bun, enclosed in lettuce to allow it to be held while eating. This is an essential characteristic of a sandwich, in my opinion. You must pick it up to eat it.

                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                    Don't forget the KFC Double Down! Although I guess that does have several layers of breading.

                                                                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_...

                                                                                    1. re: GH1618

                                                                                      That means "fork and knife sandwich" is an oxymoron.

                                                                                  2. Is a subway-style sub a sandwich? Sounds like the same issue to me.

                                                                                    7 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: shezmu

                                                                                      When Subway started, our bakery made all their bread and delivered it to them (they started locally here in south central Connecticut). To assemble the sub for the customer, the employee would cut a V-shaped wedge the length of the roll and after filling the roll, place the wedge on top.
                                                                                      It was only after they started their in store baking with the mushy rolls, that they had to switch to cutting a slit down the side and opening flat. The shitty bread they bake in stire couldn't hold up to a top cut.

                                                                                      1. re: bagelman01

                                                                                        Actually, you can still get a Subway sandwich with an "old cut" if you ask nicely.

                                                                                          1. re: grampart

                                                                                            Don't get me started on subway bread. Also, thanks for the interesting history, Bagelman.

                                                                                            1. re: shezmu

                                                                                              I almost got thrown out of a Subway in Florida back in the 80's for demanding the kid cut the roll like every other sub shop did. With support from my fellow customers, he finally gave in. They had a bad fire shortly thereafter and never reopened.

                                                                                            2. re: grampart

                                                                                              I loved the wedge! The wedge kept everything in the sandwich. Now when I get one there are condiments, lettuce and olives all over the PAPER- not in the SANDWICH. Who wants to lick paper? Gross.

                                                                                          1. It is until it crosses the line. When it is served smothered in chili and they give you a plastic fork to eat it with.After looking at this. Would this be considered a open faced sandwich? What about the Puka dog in Hawaii.What's that supposed to be ?

                                                                                            1. What .... you need a bun to eat a hot dog ?!? I didn't get that memo.

                                                                                              1. If it *is* a sandwich, why is it that nobody calls it as such?

                                                                                                Lets go to Coney Island and get a few sandwiches!

                                                                                                Part of my trip to NY was eating dirty water sandwiches.

                                                                                                Its tradition; go to the baseball game and eat a few all-american sandwiches.

                                                                                                The earl of Sandwich was playing cards in Hamburg Germany, drawing to a straight, and asked for a weiner in a bun.

                                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: porker

                                                                                                  There are other things like that. Is chowder soup?

                                                                                                    1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                      I think it's more like stew, now that you mention it.

                                                                                                2. Yes.

                                                                                                  An item of food with bread either side of it is the basic description of a sandwich.

                                                                                                  1. After following this thread for a few days, I feel like we're a bunch of Rabbis arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
                                                                                                    CP

                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: Chefpaulo

                                                                                                      For many of us CH is a religion and these ecumenical debates are important if we are to move the church forward.

                                                                                                      1. re: Chefpaulo

                                                                                                        Actually, I think it's Jesuits who do angels & pins.

                                                                                                      2. "conferring sandwich-hood upon every snack involving bread and protein sets a dangerous precedent."

                                                                                                        dangerous?

                                                                                                        1. No, it's a hot dog. Add chili and it's a chili dog. Take away the bun, roll, it is franks. Add beans and it's franks and beans.

                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                          1. re: Bellachefa

                                                                                                            Is anyone else having a "There's Something about Mary" flashback after reading the post about "franks and beans"???

                                                                                                            1. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                              Now, would that be a zipper sandwich or a zipper dog?

                                                                                                              1. re: porker

                                                                                                                "Uh one, and oh two, and uh ........"; ".... we got a bleeder !!"

                                                                                                                LOL. Franks for the memory, ncyankee101 !

                                                                                                              2. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                                A British friend once described that scene as "the part where you see the close-up of his...y'know...meat and two veg." Which to this day remains my favorite euphemism of all time.

                                                                                                            2. This is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a while

                                                                                                              4 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: scubadoo97

                                                                                                                As Artie Johnson once said "very interesting, but stupid"

                                                                                                                  1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                    Then the question might arise, is a knucklehotdog a sandwich?

                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                      I just saw his tag and was gonna ask the same, LOL !!!

                                                                                                                      I guess that might depend if his fist was clenched closed or if the fingers are open .......

                                                                                                                1. Of course it is. So is a burger. It would be an affectation to call them that but that doesn't change the fact that they are.

                                                                                                                  Try to come up with a "sandwich" definition that wouldn't apply to a hot dog or a burger.

                                                                                                                  5 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                    a hot dog without the bun - common enough- is definitely not a sandwich. I eat them at home like that.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Steve

                                                                                                                      When people talk about eating a hot dog they normally don't refer to eating one without the bun.

                                                                                                                      A roast beef sandwich is no longer a sandwich if you just serve roast beef on a plate.

                                                                                                                      The definition the OP seems to be leaning towards is "A sandwich is anything served between two slices of bread or on a bun EXCEPT a sausage or a burger."

                                                                                                                      That seems contrived. Now actually calling a hot dog a sandwich would be weird but it's even weirder to try to twist the definition to exclude them.

                                                                                                                      1. re: Steve

                                                                                                                        But then we get into the question, is it a hot dog, or just a wiener (or frank)?

                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                          FRANKly my dear, I don't give a damn :-D

                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                            Call it what you will...just don't call me late to dinner!

                                                                                                                      2. Is an "open-faced sandwich" a sandwich? I don't think so, in which case whether or not it is customarily called a "sandwich" is not the determining factor.

                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                        1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                          Exactly how I feel. A piece of bread at the bottom does not make it a sandwich.

                                                                                                                          I've even seen on menus listed "no-bread sandwiches" or burgers (ie: Atkins-special, no carb). People, people, people ......

                                                                                                                        2. If you bite into a natural casing hot dog in the forest and no one is listening, does it make a snap?

                                                                                                                          1. Ok. I read (and enjoyed) the entire thread. I think a hot dog is a sandwich if it is served on a bun. When I was a kids, we never had "buns" it was always 'wonderbread" for burgers and dogs served at home.

                                                                                                                            Here is my quesion that I did not see addressed. What about a meatball sandwich from the local pizzeria? It is not on sliced bread (in my experience) but it IS a sandwich. Thank you very much.

                                                                                                                            5 Replies
                                                                                                                            1. re: laliz

                                                                                                                              A sub (aka hero) is a sandwich.

                                                                                                                              hero+sandwich - 28,000,000 Google hits.

                                                                                                                              sub+sandwich - 50,000,000 Google hits.

                                                                                                                              Wikipedia says so too.
                                                                                                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarin...

                                                                                                                              1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                Often we include 'sandwich' in the name to help differentiate it from other uses ('a hero' can be something else). Other examples:

                                                                                                                                a club sandwich
                                                                                                                                a grilled cheese (sandwich)
                                                                                                                                a Ruben (sandwich)
                                                                                                                                a Monte Cristo (sandwich)
                                                                                                                                a tuna salad (sandwich)
                                                                                                                                a PB&J
                                                                                                                                a BLT

                                                                                                                                1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                  If someone asks me"what did you have for lunch today." and I answer "a hero" they know what I mean.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                    And if you answered "a sandwich", meaning a hot dog, they would not know what you mean...

                                                                                                                              2. re: laliz

                                                                                                                                I used to love, love, love meatball ....subs. Not a Wonderbread pairing.

                                                                                                                              3. Okay, a hot god is officially a taco!

                                                                                                                                4 Replies
                                                                                                                                    1. re: Bellachefa

                                                                                                                                      Yes Pele was king !

                                                                                                                                      https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/im...

                                                                                                                                      And very ironically, look who's he's endorsing:

                                                                                                                                      http://files.prokerala.com/news/photo...

                                                                                                                                      I wonder if it's because his jersey colors are those of Subway's, hahaha

                                                                                                                                    2. re: LotusRapper

                                                                                                                                      boy my fingers were working backwards on that one.

                                                                                                                                  1. Oh, why not.

                                                                                                                                    ----------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                    Webster's dictionary definition of "sandwich" -

                                                                                                                                    1A : two or more slices of bread or a split roll having a filling in between

                                                                                                                                    1B : one slice of bread covered with food
                                                                                                                                    ----------------------------------------------------

                                                                                                                                    That would cover subs, heroes, grinders, hot dogs, burgers, and open faced sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                    Now it's not common usage to refer to burgers and hot dogs as sandwiches. I'd never do it. But technically, they are.

                                                                                                                                    27 Replies
                                                                                                                                    1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                      A nearby palestinian restaurant serves makhusan, a whole roast chicken with onions marinated in sumac served on top of a large pita. The pita is my favorite part as it soaks up the juices form the chicken and the onions.

                                                                                                                                      Is that a Webster's approved sandwich?

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Steve

                                                                                                                                        No. The pita is functioning as a trencher.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Steve

                                                                                                                                          I'm not sure. You'd need to consult the Palestinian version of Websters.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Steve

                                                                                                                                              A whole roast chicken with onions & sumac on top of a pita? Not a sandwich, but it sounds delicious.

                                                                                                                                              Um, exactly where is this Palestinian restaurant?

                                                                                                                                              1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                Jerusalem, in Falls Church, VA:

                                                                                                                                                http://www.virginiamiddleeasternresta...

                                                                                                                                                Just trying to make the point, BTW, that dictionary definitions are sometimes inadequate. A hot dog is as much a sandwich as putting hummus on a flatbread is a pizza. Technicalities aside, for the purpose of Chowhound they deserve separate discussions.

                                                                                                                                            2. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                              No dictionary of the English language has standing as the official arbiter. Dictionary definitions are merely the expert opinion of one group of editors associated with a particular publisher. Definition 1B, above, is unusual. There is nothing similar in any of my dictionaries.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                Language works because most people agree on what words mean. If we didn't, we wouldn't be able to understand one another. Dictionaries gather those shared meanings in one place.

                                                                                                                                                This isn't a precise science. That's why words often have multiple meanings - 1A, 1B, etc. Over time new words are added to dictionaries and the meanings of existing words can shift. But just because words shift and meanings can be imprecise doesn't mean the process has no validity.

                                                                                                                                                The 1B definition you refer to defines what *most* people call an "open faced sandwich" - "one slice of bread covered with food."

                                                                                                                                                That's the commonly accepted definition. A Google search on open+face+sandwich produces 45,800,000 hits. You called that definition "unusual" but it seems a lot more common than that.

                                                                                                                                                Of course you're free to reject the idea of an open faced sandwich but it will make it really tricky to order one in a restaurant.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                  You'll have a long wait to see me order an open-faced "sandwich" (the kind slathered in gravy and served with mashed potatoes).

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                    Actually that's comfort food for me. Open-faced turkey [insert descriptive word here], with slices of turkey meat on top of the bread, then mashed 'taters, cranberry sauce and gravy to top things off :-)

                                                                                                                                              2. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                It's also useful to look up how dictionaries define "hot dog", e.g. dictionary.com (Random House):

                                                                                                                                                hot dog, noun
                                                                                                                                                1. a frankfurter.
                                                                                                                                                2. a sandwich consisting of a frankfurter in a split roll, usually eaten with mustard, sauerkraut, or relish.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                  I see definition #2 uses the "S" word. :-)

                                                                                                                                                  I've said this before but it bears repeating. Actually *calling* it a sandwich sounds stupid and affected. But it's even crazier to define sandwich as -

                                                                                                                                                  "an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other filling between them EXCEPT for a burger or a hot dog because that would sound funny."

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                    Then what would you call a McMuffin?

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                      I guess I never imagined a shit-sandwich to be served in a bun...it kinda loses its sandwichness.

                                                                                                                                                      "an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other filling between them EXCEPT for a burger or a hot dog because that would sound funny."

                                                                                                                                                      - I can understand this reasoning, but I feel it goes beyond "sounding funny". Hot dogs do not have enough sandwichness to be considered such. Innately, they kind of defy the definition...

                                                                                                                                                      I'm trying desperately to hold out here....

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                        Try writing a definition of "sandwich" which excludes burgers and hot dogs for reasons other than "it sounds funny."

                                                                                                                                                        But I agree with you - it *does* sound stupid. If I walked into a restaurant that had a menu listing a "hamburger sandwich" I'd laugh long and hard and think they were trying to be overly precious.

                                                                                                                                                        I resolve this dilemma by conceding that burgers and hot dogs are sandwiches but their names incorporate their sandwichness.*

                                                                                                                                                        You can't say "I had a ham for lunch." You have to say "I had a ham sandwich for lunch." The sandwichness isn't implied.

                                                                                                                                                        But you can say "I had a burger for lunch" and everyone knows it was served on a bun.

                                                                                                                                                        (*I can't believe I invented a word.)

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                          We all would agree that a crow (or eagle) is a bird. But we don't say 'crow bird'.

                                                                                                                                                          A salmon is a fish, but we don't say 'salmon fish'. On the other hand, we use both 'tuna' and 'tuna fish'.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                            "
                                                                                                                                                            ...sandwichness.*...
                                                                                                                                                            (*I can't believe I invented a word.)
                                                                                                                                                            "
                                                                                                                                                            Sorry Kimo, I used "sandwichness" in the post that you *replied* to.

                                                                                                                                                            I can't believe you claimed to invent a word.
                                                                                                                                                            {;-/) haha.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                              My apologies. It was a long day.

                                                                                                                                                              The rest of my post is still valid.

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                              So, a burger isn't a sandwich, but a patty melt is? or is it a kind of burger which isn't a sandwich

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: TroyTempest

                                                                                                                                                                It sounds like quite the ontological vicious cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: TroyTempest

                                                                                                                                                                  A patty melt isn't a sandwich, but it's a member of the sandwich family. Like the Reuben.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                                    A Reuben is definitely a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                    This patty melt

                                                                                                                                                                    https://whataburger.com/Food/Item/pat...

                                                                                                                                                                    is definitely a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                                      Meat between 2 slices of bread is a sandwich.
                                                                                                                                                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_melt

                                                                                                                                                                      If you don't think it is,please give us your definition of a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                                        This discussion has gone from "very interesting, but stupid" to… only one of those things.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                                          The Reuben is one big dysfunctional family ..... there's also the Rachel sandwich, the Westcoast Reuben, Montreal Reuben and the, you ready for this ? ...... the Reuben "egg roll":

                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.bubblews.com/assets/images...

                                                                                                                                                            3. Who cares? What's important is that you don't put any ketchup on it.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: junescook

                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe it's time for a new MegaChain
                                                                                                                                                                      The Cheesesteak Factory

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: junescook

                                                                                                                                                                        Well, if the cheesesteak us a sandwich, why not the hot dog on a bun?

                                                                                                                                                                      2. Short answer:

                                                                                                                                                                        It's a hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                        Next question….

                                                                                                                                                                        1. No. It's not a sandwich. But it is served as a sandwich. Confused ? I am.

                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: emglow101

                                                                                                                                                                            Perhaps we can head of the category "sandwich" and anything else is a descendant....you know..."Adam and Eve on a raft...wreck em' "

                                                                                                                                                                          2. It looks like there is an entire site dedicated to the debate: http://isahotdogasandwich.wordpress.com

                                                                                                                                                                            By the way, it's definitely a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                            8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Apostrophe

                                                                                                                                                                                Wow, those people should get a life !

                                                                                                                                                                                And so should we ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LotusRapper

                                                                                                                                                                                  Bread on top. Bread on the bottom with something edible between=sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Puffin3

                                                                                                                                                                                    That puts a split-top New England lobster roll in the sandwich twilight zone....:)

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Puffin3

                                                                                                                                                                                      Uh oh, I just turned my PB&J sideways. Now it's a hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: davis_sq_pro

                                                                                                                                                                                        I can picture someone eating a vending machine tuna sandwich half 'on end' (cut side up).

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                          That would be a desperate, hungry person.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. I refrained from joining this discussion because it is such a subjective topic, but here goes.

                                                                                                                                                                                  A hotdog is not a sandwich it's a hotdog. (And the Famous Nathan's event of the 4th of July is not a hotdog eating contest, it is a wiener and bun eating contest. A hotdog is not a hotdog until it is on a bun of some sort.)

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'll chime in on a few other topics that came up. A hamburger also is not a sandwich, it's a hamburger. A patty melt, while on toasted bread is a patty melt and doesn't need to be referred to as a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I think a sandwich is a sandwich for sure when the word sandwich is needed as a descriptor. If you have a peanut butter sandwich and are going to tell someone, you need to use the word sandwich. If you say "I had a bacon, lettuce, and tomato" you need to add the word sandwich. Of course my entire supposition falls apart when only the letters BLT are used. (I recently learned that BLT is not an acronym, but an initialism. Acronyms need to form a word, but I digress.)

                                                                                                                                                                                  5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                    What about a hamburger sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LotusRapper

                                                                                                                                                                                        We were in Fiji a few years back.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Apparently some of the hill folk there have been enjoying an occasional manwich up until the 50s. AKA long pork, I wonder if they made pulled long-pork sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                      if they called it a Bacon Lettuce And Tomato sandwich - a BLAT - THEN it would be ancronym.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Where do we go to start a petition?

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                        People say "I had a PB&J" or "a turkey on rye" regularly too and we all know what they mean. I don't think a hot dog is a sandwich but the word sandwich itself isn't the dividing line.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. From the greatest source ever known, Wikipedia: A hot dog is a cooked sausage, traditionally grilled or steamed and served in a sliced bun as a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog

                                                                                                                                                                                        18 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                          Even Wikipedia (greatest source ever known) knows it *ain't* a sandwich, its more *as* a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                            I will assume that in calling Wikipedia "the greatest source ever known", both of you are being humorous. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: The Professor

                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know about jpc, but I'm pretty sure its solid; I looked it up on Wikipedia and yeah, they say its the greatest.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                The Muhammad Ali of facts! A wonderful resource. My sister in Idaho, a college professor, has been an active contributor since its early days, and she alerted me to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                Wikipedia says its a sandwich. So do the online dictionaries. The real trick for the Sandwich Deniers is to come up with a definition of "sandwich" that makes sense

                                                                                                                                                                                                Saying "a sandwich is anything served on bread or a roll EXCEPT a hot dog because we say so" is kind of sloppy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Dirtywextraolives

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It may be sloppy but it's exactly how language works. It's very reliant on historical and cultural context. Any time I hear someone start an argument with "well, the DICTIONARY definition says..." I pretty much know to expect little from it because a definition can't cover decades or centuries of use in a living language. A hot dog isn't a sandwich because it's a hot dog-because hot dog carts don't sell other sandwiches, Subway and Quozno's don't sell them, they're usually in a different section of the menu, and because if I visit a friend and they ask if I'd like a sandwich they never hand me a hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Whoa wait a minute.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    jpc's quote is an exact cut & paste from wiki (except for fonts) and it says "...served in a sliced bun as a sandwich."
                                                                                                                                                                                                    It doesn't say "its a sandwich", it says its "served...as a sandwich."

                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can dress a man up AS a woman, but it don't make it a woman.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can serve tofu AS chicken, but it don't make it chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Your definition of a sandwich please?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think we're getting it backward; its not defining a sandwich so much as defining the hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        But since you ask, it runs along something already stated above:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ...meat between bread, yadee-ya,...except for the hot dog.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        {;-/)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I dunno, perhaps theres an ideal model which would universally be recognized as sandwich. Variants might be close to the model and as such can be considered sandwich; its closer to the sandwich ideal than other ideals, so people are comfy in their assessment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think hot dog is along the fringe at best, within our concept of the sandwich ideal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not only that, we lack another comparable ideal to which to compare the hot dog.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        These two factors make people comfortable in considering or assuming hot dog as sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        But nay say I, it is too far from the ideal to be considered sandwich.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        So what IS it you may ask. This I am still working through, but there might not yet be a definitive answer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Perhaps we have it all wrong. Perhaps we're asking the wrong question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Maybe asking if the hot dog is a sandwich is akin to asking if the hot dog is a tree...or a fish, or a rock, or whatever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Perhaps hot dog is an iconic ideal, separate from sandwich. Then we'd be asking things like is a pogo (corn dog) a hot dog...or is an italian sausage submarine a hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm just sayin...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                          In
                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9672...
                                                                                                                                                                                                          I suggested that the prototypical sandwich (your 'ideal') was 2 pieces of Wonder bread with deli meat and cheese.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                        'served as a sandwich' might have been chosen to side step this issue 'is it/not a sandwich'. I bet that way back in the History of this Wiki page there was debate just like this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Sandwich Deniers". Bob, you made my day. Thank you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: knucklesandwich

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm sorry. Perhaps you folks did not see my post above where I linked to the Wikipedia entry for hot dog. The debate regarding the sandwichiness of the hot dog is over. Case closed. Move along, nothing to see here now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are some people here who claim that the dictionaries are wrong, that they don't properly reflect the language. I think that's overly broad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Where dictionaries run into trouble is including *new* words or meanings which have recently *changed*. Language grows and meanings shift. The usual process for dictionaries like the Oxford and Webster's is that they track these changes and if they become sufficiently prevalent then they modify the definition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            But most words *don't* change their meanings. There's been no radical change to the definition of "sandwich" which would justify rejecting the dictionary definition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            That said, there's a difference between the technical meaning of a word and the way we use it in everyday speech. I'd never call a hot dog a sandwich in everyday conversation. I wouldn't call a hamburger a sandwich either. But that doesn't change the fact that they are still sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's baseball season. Babe Ruth hit 714 home runs and was a terrific pitcher too. Everybody calls him Babe but that doesn't change the fact that his actual name is George Herman Ruth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Perhaps you didn't see my post above where I refer directly to your post?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              That Wikipedia entry is shaky...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "served as a sandwich"...shit, I can put some tar paper between a couple of bowling balls and serve it "as a sandwich".....

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm just sayin.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh I did see it. You didn't like Wikipedia's definition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                How about Webster's -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                a: two or more slices of bread or a split roll having a filling in between
                                                                                                                                                                                                                b : one slice of bread covered with food

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or the Oxford's -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                An item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with a filling between them, eaten as a light meal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or the Free Dictionary's -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                a. Two or more slices of bread with a filling such as meat or cheese placed between them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                b. A partly split long or round roll containing a filling.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                c. One slice of bread covered with a filling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or the Cambridge -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                slices or pieces of meat, cheese, salads, etc., put between two pieces of bread that are held together by the person who picks them up when ready to eat:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I stand by my Babe Ruth/hot dog point. Just because everybody calls him Babe doesn't mean his name isn't George Herman Ruth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. I don't always know what a sandwich is, but I sometimes know what a sandwich is not (a hotdog).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. It's meat between bread, so sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Well, if you go to the grocery store to buy hot dogs, you have a lot of choices, but none of them come in buns.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: junescook

                                                                                                                                                                                                              actually they do come that way if you look hard enough

                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.tnpride.com/products

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not interested but a company markets boxes of Tennessee Pride mini hot dogs in the buns

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. I was just having some fun with my post about hotdogs and hamburgers not being sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              It seems there are some here who have a whole lot more at stake in this discussion than I do. I don't understand the apparent angst.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Because it's a hotdog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If somebody else wishes to refer to a hotdog as a sandwich, it does not bother me at all. I just don't do it because it's just not important to me one way or the other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I mentioned a scenario somewhere up a ways...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    invite your buddies over for some sandwiches, but serve them hot dogs instead.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your buddies would say "I thought you said we were having sandwiches?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You might retort "We *are* having sandwiches."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The ignorant buddies would say "No, we're having hot dogs."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To which you can quote Webster, Oxford, Cambridge, or Thoreau.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Me thinks the buddies might not understand....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (perhaps mention that you were serving hot dogs *as* sandwiches and they might nod knowingly...or not)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Define a sandwich how you wish, people will innately know a hot dog from a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think the 'ignorant buddies' aren't so ignorant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This thread reminds me of a quote.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There must be a "is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable" thread somewhere where some dumbass, pig-headed guy insists it a vegetable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (said guy might even argue serving fruit to his buddies...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        {;-/)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm going to have to remember that quote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Okay but seriously...why would a hot dog not be a sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I quote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Because it's a hotdog."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The two are not mutually exclusive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. We need to stick a fork in this hotdog thread. I think it's done.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: TroyTempest

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i think this is more like the hot dogs on the rollers at convenience stores - it will never be done LOL.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you ate a hot dog in the forest and no one was around...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Do they just roll around until they get so small that they fall through the rollers?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Come on...you guys are all joking right? Of course a hot dog is a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nigh time to give up the dream jp, it aint a sangwich.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hehe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Bread wrapped around a filling...sandwich. End of discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The only way a discussion can be forcibly ended here is by the moderators.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wonder why it is so important that a hotdog be defined as a sandwich or not as a 'sandwich'?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So how can you call a punch a "knuckle sandwich"? There is no bread of any type involved.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I guess you're right...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              True story: earlier today a coworker said "lets go to Lafleur's for a fast lunch". This is a small Montreal chain known for their hot dogs and Michigans (I don't want to get into a Michigan debate, but plenty here on the subject http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/4328...).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyway, I had 2 sandwiches, all dressed plus a Michigan sandwich with onions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I *may* relent, but man, it sounds retarded.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. After reading a subthread on 'foods wrongly named' I'm tempted to start a thread:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is clam chowder soup?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                31 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: emglow101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, its a chowder.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Put it in a bun and apparently its a sandwich...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How about a hollowed out sourdough loaf?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Had the sourdough bowl in S.F. Then it would be a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: emglow101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In SF we don't call it a clam chowder sandwich. Maybe we should petition the mayor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: calumin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I heard in Bernal Heights they call it clam-a-roni.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is from Wikipedia, the greatest collection of human knowledge known to man:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Stews are similar to soups, and in some cases there may not be a clear distinction between the two. Generally, stews have less liquid than soups, are much thicker and require longer cooking over low heat. While soups are almost always served in a bowl, stews may be thick enough to be served on a plate with the gravy as a sauce over the solid ingredients.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Based on this definition I would consider chowder to be a soup but at this point I think we are splitting hairs. I would not have issue with someone referring to clam chowder as a stew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Splitting hairs? In this thread? That couldn't be the case...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wasn't thinking of the soup v stew issue. More in the spirit of the hotdog question, can you say 'clam chowder soup'?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But New Englanders (or at least one outspoken Chowhound), claim that NE clam chowder shouldn't be thick. The starch from the potatoes is the only thickening allowed - at least in Maine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But I've also read that earlier versions of chowder were fish and ships biscuits, layered in the pot and cooked into a stew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Go to Ivar's in Seattle and ask them what kind of soup they have. They will say "clam chowder".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                They describe it as 'Northwest style white clam chowder'. So that gets around the Maine objections. :) They also have 'red clam chowder', which presumably is similar to NY style.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ...and they are both delicious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you walked into Ivar's and asked them what kind of stew they have they would look at you like you were speaking Portuguese.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Looks like I have to go to NJ to get Acorda de Mariscos, a Portuguese 'dry soup' of bread and seafood.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.njdiningguide.net/Seabras/...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://ourfamilyfoodadventures.com/20...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    'bread bowl in a soup'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In Spanish there's the term 'sopa seca', 'dry soup'. Which can refer to a stew, or even something as dry as rice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9734...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                links a museum collection of chowder recipes. The early ones are slow cooked stews.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Of course, Rachel Ray would say it is a stoop.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: TroyTempest

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We all agree that a hot dog and a frank or frankfurter are the same?...So why would one assume it is always served in a bun, bread or a sandwich?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Last night I ate some first boiled, cut up on a plate with mustard, no bread. So what did I eat?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  So if you take that tube steak and put it in a bun, why would it not be a sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So in my case above, tube steak or not did I eat a hot dog? I think so...I therefore want to petition all of the foregoing responders, that we should clarify that hog dog, frankfurter, or tube steak is not always the same in all conversations.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I guess we have an idiom of the language. Anybody know hot to say hot dog in any other foreign language?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I see a hot dog listed on a restaurant menu I would expect it to be served in a bun. What you ate was a sausage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What about if I take three weiners and lay them side by side between two slices of bread? I used to do this all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ncyankee101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I had a friend in high school who used to have that for school lunch every day. His mom would put enough mayonnaise on the sandwich to fill up all the crevices between the hot dog halves. It was disgusting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: calumin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I guess he had "dog breath" all afternoon!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Frankfurter and wiener always refer to the sausage itself. Hot dog can refer to the sausage itself, but more often means the sandwich - wiener in a bun. You can buy a package of hot dogs and package of hot dog buns at the grocery, and put them together to serve hot dogs for lunch.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So, OK....here is a package of hot dogs, says nothing on the package but Chicken Hot Dogs....not one mention of wiener, frank, frankfurter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you have a package of hot dogs, and you have a package of hot dog buns, why then are the buns not called wiener buns? frankfurter buns? or sausage buns?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Please see the picture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Gwaltney uses both 'Franks' and 'hot dogs'. Notice that many of the pictures show the sausage in a bun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.gwaltneyfoods.com/hot-dogs...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.heinersbakery.com/products...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a bakery that sells 'split top wiener buns' and 'hot dog buns'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.europeanbakers.com/EB_Vari...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and NE frank buns

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have always figured a wiener is not a hotdog until it is in a bun. That's why I don't consider the eating event at Coney Island on the 4th of July to be a hotdog eating contest. It's a wiener and bun eating contest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. It's stuff with bread on either side of it. You eat it, mostly by picking it up in your hands and chomping.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How, exactly, could such a construct be lacking in sandwichosity?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "because its a hot dog"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Which, of course, is a sandwich if it's in a bun.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: The Professor

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think we have an answer. Ambiguous at best:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hot Dog =...Frank, wiener, tube steak, sausage, frankfurter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hot Dog =... on a "bun" designed for the foregoing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hot Dog =..Can be eaten with hands or utensils with or without a bun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think that clears it up!!!!Kinda like the word Shalom....same word many meanings!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. By a curious coincidence, John Hodgman's column in the NY Times magazine dealt with this very question today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/20...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you don't want to read the article, he pointed out King Solomon's solution. You cut sandwiches in half. Do you cut a hot dog in half? Thanks, King.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DonShirer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you don't want to click the link, text here:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        By (Judge) John Hodgman

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ERIN WRITES:My best friend, Dennis, and I have been arguing about whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich. I say that only a total pedant would ever think of a hot dog as a sandwich, which Dennis is. Dennis says that I can’t just decide something isn’t what it is because I think otherwise. Is a hot dog a sandwich or not?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Let me apply the wisdom of Solomon: If your friend’s hot dog is a sandwich, why doesn’t he just cut it in half? HE CAN’T, CAN HE? Because it is not a sandwich, but a hot dog, indivisible and sui generis — a culinary anomaly so compelling that we actually eat it, even when it is cooked in a tank on a cart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So there you have it, ruling by *judge* John Hodgman, "sui generis"...not a sandwich, but of its own kind/genus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Me thinks Hodgman is a CH lurker.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But of course you can cut a hot dog in half, as was often done when I was a kid and my sister and I were meant to share one at carnivals and fairs and such.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It seems to me that dismissing someone as a pedant for a difference of opinion on such a trivial question is itself pedantry, because you are just as strict in your interpretation as he.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. It's a sausage inna bun, innit?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That might be a sandwich. It makes me think of cut me own throat Dibbler from Terry Pratchett's hilarious books (the first sentence above is a quote :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. For real though...you guys all understand that a hot dog is sandwich, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not if it's wrapped in a tortilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: emglow101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This could start a whole new thread. Is a wrap a sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would argue that a wrap is a hybrid between a sandwich and a burrito.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think it's time for me to "unstar" this thread!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not according who posted here before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For real though, what PHREDDY said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I mean yeah.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Of course (not).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Could be (but then maybe not).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. It is totally a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. I asked my brother for an opinion on this topic. He is exceptionally fat so I consider him a bit of an expert on these things. He says that a hot dog is most certainly a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      He goes on to say that anything wrapped in a starch for ease of eating with your hands...is a sandwich. I asked him about burritos...sandwich. I asked him about taco...sandwich. I asked him about hom bao...sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      He's fat. He knows what he is talking about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        +100

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm glad this thread hung around for months so I could read that post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          He has authority, but he is wrong..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A hot dog is a hot dog, not a sandwich!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            JPC's brother says a hot dog is a sandwich. He's fat - you're not. So he's right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What? We should take the word of some skinny guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nah. Corpulence = truth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LOL!!! but let's not discriminate though!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a fat guy might call ANYTHING a sangwich just to EAT IT.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I dunno,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              deep fried chicken skin tossed with french fries - SANDWICH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a pound of butter rolled in chocolate sprinkles - SANDWICH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              quart of warm Pabst Blue Ribbon and twinkies - breakfast SANDWICH

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Like I said, invite folks over for sandwiches but serve spaghetti, you'll face some questioning. Serve hot dogs and you'll get the same response "Hey, I thought you said "sandwiches"?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Of course the fat guy might not question things at all...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think that a sandwich with chicken skin sounds awesome. Maybe a riff on a BLT where you replace the bacon with the beautifully crisp skin of fried chicken thighs...awesome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Actually I was inspired by my brother-in-law (he's a fat guy). We kid around that if possible, he'd order Kentucky Fried Skin by the barrel and mix in fries and gravy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I my restaurant days, we'd occasionally make "parisian" potatoes, perfectly round 1" potatoes, deep fried and seasoned with beef base.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My chicken guy got the idea to wrap these little puppies with rotisserie chicken skin. They were delicious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "He is exceptionally fat so I consider him a bit of an expert on these things."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After a long shitty day this post made me laugh so hard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They also say a Denver omelet is a sandwich. Try again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also in the pie section of that particular website they fail to have either pork pie or steak and kidney pie listed. With omissions like that it's hard to take it seriously as a judge on such an important matter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your original reference did not mention bread. Of course eggs between two pieces of bread is a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your second reference is Wikipedia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your last reference? "Winning"? WTF???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's 2014 not 2011. You're way behind on your calandar.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From another page on the Nibble article:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.thenibble.com/reviews/main...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Along with this type of regional adaptation came specialties such as:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Denver Omelet, an omelet on toast
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Fluffernutter, peanut butter and Fluff marshmallow creme, a New England invention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the French Dipped Sandwich, created in Los Angeles in 1918, thinly sliced roast beef served on a French roll or baguette au jus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Muffaletta from New Orleans, with ingredients similar to a hero or sub but served on a slice cut from a loaf of round Sicilian muffaletta bread instead of a long roll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Philadelphia Cheesesteak, thin slices of grilled steak with melted cheese on a roll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Reuben Sandwich from New York City—pastrami, sauerkraut and melted cheese on pumpernickel or rye bread

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Those all seem like sandwiches to me, unless that omelet is on a single piece of toast.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (I posted here a couple of weeks ago that I really don't care if somebody thinks a hotdog is a sandwich or not, I just like the debate.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The 'denver omelete sandwich' seems to refer to a particular dinner's presentation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I noticed that. I've also noticed from watching Diners, Drive-ins, & Dives that many establishments offer offbeat food. I would never order a "Denver Omelet Sandwich".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                John, you appear non-commital and seemingly have to justify your ambivalence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just let it go and embrace the fact that it ain't a sandwich. You'll feel much better, trust me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. On my next visit to Hawaii. When I ask for the Puka, or Hula dog sandwich I'll see what they say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. I saw an episode of Alton Brown's "Feasting On Asphalt" - where he rides cross-country on a BMW motorcycle, tasting food along the byways of America. (why he chose a BMW to do this still baffles me, but thats besides the point).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Anyway, this particular show included St. Louis, and in particular a segment on the 1904 Worlds Fair in St. Louis. A historian explained some myths and facts about food at the fair (ice cream cones were first served here (true), iced tea was first served here (false) etc etc)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The hot dog came up and I almost spilled my wine sitting up, trying to catch what was being said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The food historian (who seems like an expert on the subject) said that the hot dog was not invented at the worlds fair as immigrants were already serving sausages in bread "as a sandwich".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Interestingly, this is very similar to the Wikipedia definition.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Again, its either a sandwich, or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If its served "as a sandwich", it ain't a sandwich: its something else trying to be a sammy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No, served "as a sandwich" means served in the form of a sandwich. Something assembled in the form of a sandwich is a form of sandwich. You are twisting the plain meaning of words here to try to support your position.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "You are twisting the plain meaning of words here to try to support your position."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well yeah
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            {;-/)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I got home last night I grilled some chicken and served it as dinner. Because I served it as dinner does that mean that is wasn't really my dinner? It was only served "as" dinner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                A man dresses as a woman.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You have intercourse with the guy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Did you have sex with a woman? Of course not, it was a man.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's a desparate ploy to defend your position in a pointless argument. Call it whatever you like.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ploy? Yes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Desperate? No.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Pointless argument? Yes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just call it a hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Porker,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I guess it depends on the size of his hot dog!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or who brought the buns to the party...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Guess you're right. But then I never bang my sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. All joking aside though...it's a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I really wish this to be true, but alas....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. From the Coney Island Fun Guide:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "... their pure-beef frankfurter sandwich became known as the original Coney Island Hot Dog."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://coneyislandfunguide.com/EatAnd...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "It was 1916. Two Polish immigrants named Nathan and Ida Handwerker were working in a New York beach resort called Coney Island. They met. They married. And the hot dog was born"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The "hot dog" was born. It was new, so they might have mistakenly called it a sandwich, (like calling early automobiles "horse-less carriages") but they wised up pretty fast and realized it was a hot dog.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Note they don't say the hot dog sandwich was born...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hot dog == frankfurter sandwich

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      automobile == horse-less carriage

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      burger == hamburger sandwich

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I noticed on a Bristish detective episode that the chief detective scolded his subordinate for not leaving his mobile on. Is a 'mobile' (with a long 'i') a phone?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To me == is "equivalent to", and yes, they may be equivalent.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        However, equivalent does not make them the same,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        just as a high school equivalency ain't the same as high school.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. From CJ's in Chicago:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "The new-fangled hot dog sandwich -- a pure beef frankfurter in a steamed bun ..."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.cjschicagodogs.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      " from Austria-Hungary to Chicago's World Fair / Columbian Exposition in 1893..."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Again, they were flopping around trying to figure out what it was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. I remember a philosophical idea from awhile back. It dealt with reality and how we can or cannot rely on it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are some facets of reality which seem hard wired to existence in general. I dunno, like the idea of one-ness: if you have one of anything, its ONE. Not two or zero, etc, its ONE.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This seems to be a non-negotiable tenet of existential reality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Unless theres something like an "evil-genius" who warps our perception of reality. In this example, our idea of one-ness is wrong. Its not necessarily two or zero, its just not one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've been wondering these past few weeks if theres an evil-genius at work here, muddling with our perception of sandwich and/or hot dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. From Jim's Famous Sauce, a Pittsburgh area hot dog place:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Originally, all hot dogs were made with steamed buns, and most times the buns would be soggy. If customers took the sandwiches home, the buns would harden. Jim was very clever – he grilled the wieners, placed them in his special buns, added dressings and popped them in the broiler. Success!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://jimsfamoussauce.com/jimsspecia...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Music to eat hot dogs by:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.lyrster.com/youtube/frankf...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think this is conclusive evidence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            GH, I gotta admit, Al Lenz and his Orchestra had me questioning my soul.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Quite possibly the best argument so far from the sandwich camp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But can we rely on turn of the century information? Again, they weren't even sure what a hot dog WAS at the time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Good ole Al was likely being a bit cheeky in bringing her a frankfurter every night. I'm sure he was, kinda like the 1993 movie Grumpy Old Men:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Looks like Chuck's taking old one-eye to the optometrist."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "taking the old log to the beaver"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "taking the skin boat to tuna-town"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "taking a ride on the wild baloney pony"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "bony macaroni...or my fatty alfredo....or my hard salami. I got 'em all"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But wait, what does the late, great, wise Burgess Meredith say?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "gonna put the hot dog in the bun"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyway, if you're really and truly gonna eat hot dogs all day, why not listen to arguably the best band EVER
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iucKF9...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. It is a sandwich by any reasonable definition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. I have located the ultimate bit of evidence to support the hot dogs inclusion in sandwichery.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/je...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would like to point out that this recipe originally aired on a show called Sandwich King. The guy is the king of sandwiches, why would he include a hot dog if it were not a sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              15 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "...why would he include a hot dog if it were not a sandwich?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Because producing a show like that is like filling a bucket with water, and the bucket has holes in the bottom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I have located the ultimate bit of evidence"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ...I'd accdept this sentance if "the ultimate" was replaced with "a".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  C'mon, the foodnetwork? Really?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And did you see the picture along with the article? Yikes!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: porker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry; my evidence is incontrovertible. Case closed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I get it, but on appeal you would loose!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It really is a sandwich though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Happen to be working from home today...you are correct it is a sandwich..that is what I have been saying all along

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Right...I just wanted to revive the thread for shits and giggles.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then it is not a sandwich..it is a specialty sausage eaten in a bread wrapper ..correct?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: PHREDDY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The bread wrapper makes it a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Haven't read any of this thread but the fact that it got 349 replies is fucking beyond me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EatFoodGetMoney

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What is beyond me is how anyone could think it is not a sandwich. I mean, come on!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh, didn't mean to reply to your post just meant to reply to the thread.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never even thought about how to classify a hotdog. They are delicious, that is all I need to know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Isn't a hotdog just encased meat though? What if I just eat one without a bun?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If a hotdog is on a bun or bread, I guess it's a sandwich, seems simple to me. In that case: not all sandwiches are hotogs, but all hotdogs are sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EatFoodGetMoney

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't expect you to read all 350+ above but if you did you would see that I and others have characterized a bunless hot dog as a wiener or a frankfurter. If you see the word "hot dog" on a menu you would expect it to come in a bun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Word, I'd be pretty goddamn angry if it came without a bun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Consider me in agreement with your team on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jpc8015

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Gee, should I post another photo of Sammy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. This is very straightforward. You may not care for the characterization, but a hot dog is definitely a sandwich by any objective measure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: PommeDeGuerre

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but what if it comes sans buns ?????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        is it still the proverbial hot dog ???????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        damn, why did it i have to participate in re-igniting this overly long, epistemological, possibly epidemiological thread ?????????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sorry my bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: kevin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If it comes without a bun then it is a frankfurter.