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What Makes Customers Think its Okay to Stay Past Store Hours?

  • r

Are people that inconsiderate?

I have to clean a 2500 sq feet cafe every night...and cannot inconsiderate customers have a tendency of staying up to 45 minutes after closing hours. I wouldn't have a problem with it...however, my boss absolutely refuses to tell them to leave as he sees it as rude AND I'm also not allowed to clean anything until they leave. Doesn't matter if it's 40 minutes or an hour, I'm not supposed to mop or sweep until they're gone.

I'm also not paid if I'm not done cleaning everything by then. So, because of these customers, I'm sometimes stuck staying up to an hour cleaning because of people like this.

What is the right thing to do in these situations when your boss doesn't allow you to tell them to leave?

This may sound very ranty as this is the third time this has happened this week and I'm so tired of it.

  1. if your boss doesn't allow you to tell them to leave, you either suck it up and wait until they leave, or find somewhere else to work.

    Most of the rest of us out here in the real world put in a lot more than 40 hours, and an awful lot of us don't get paid for the overtime (welcome to salary).

    It *is* rude to ask them to leave and it *is* bad for business.

    Now...if it were 2-3 hours past close time, you'd have a point....but an hour or less is part of the job.

    55 Replies
    1. re: plasticanimal

      We have 1/2 hour after closing paid to clean. After that it's free.

      Some of us employees are uni students who have things outside of work to do.

      Why can't customers be a tad less like inconsiderate shitheads?

      I understand many of you put in more than 40 hours. Hell, I work full time and I'm in university full time so that excuse doesn't really work with me.

      1. re: RMCF1

        So why is your time more valuable than anyone else's? What makes you think that you're the only one with multiple demands on your time outside of work? Kids, mortgages, family, being the caregiver for aging parents....and bosses who are on your ass because you only worked 60 hours last week...even though your salary is based on 40 hours.

        Welcome to adulthood.

        1. re: sunshine842

          You clearly resent your life. You think everyone else should, just because you do?

          1. re: sunshine842

            What on earth are you speaking about now? This has nothing to do with my question.

            If we close at 11. The 'proper' etiquette is to LEAVE at 11. It's not that my time is more important than anyone elses, its that we employees have lives outside of work, many of us are stuck working full time hours while going to school full time as well and staying long after hours (and yes an hour to everyone I work with is considered long after as it puts us behind another hour for cleaning...that's 2 hours).

            1. re: RMCF1

              there's plenty of threads on this forum about this. If the kitchen closes at 11, then customers aren't expected to leave at 11, and you sure don't get to leave at 11. It means that if they're through the door by 11, they have the right to expect a meal.

              1. re: sunshine842

                We're not a restaurant..it's a cafe. A lot of this may sound 'ranty' as it's happened multiple times this week and my manager has cut the night shift down from 4 people to myself alone working tables, counter and kitchen. I should be complaining to him not the forum. I'm sorry if this comes across as rude.

                Like I said, we close at 11 (not the kitchen, the store as a whole....) and we're scheduled until 11:30 as we have 1/2 hour to clean everything.

                1. re: RMCF1

                  doesn't matter -- cafe, bistro, restaurant, coffee shop, whatever you want to call it.

                  If the sign on the door says the establishment is open til 11, then that's what time someone can expect to enter and be served.

                  I'm really sorry that nobody has come on to pat you on the back and sympathize -- but the fact that we didn't doesn't mean that we're horrible people or even that we resent our lives, just that we've lived long enough and paid enough dues to understand that this is the way the world spins, especially when you're low man on the totem pole.

                  Finish your education as quickly as you can -- then you can rip off your apron on the way out the door, just the rest of us did.

                  1. re: sunshine842

                    "If the sign on the door says the establishment is open til 11, then that's what time someone can expect to enter and be served."

                    Restaurants vary in their policies. Some post 2 sets of hours - the time the kitchen closes and the time the restaurant closes. Other places post only a single time but in that case the right thing to do is to ask them, not just presume. There's no law that says a restaurant has to serve you. They each have their own policy when it comes to closing times.

                    Lets look at it another way. If a hardware store says it closes at 9:00PM you wouldn't walk in there at 8:55 to shop for the 30 items you need to renovate your kitchen.

                    Courtesy cuts both ways.

                    1. re: Bob Martinez

                      yes, and that's been discussed in several other threads. all depends on what's posted -- if it's posted that the kitchen closes at 10:30, then customers have to adjust. But if the only sign says that they close at 11, then the staff have to be prepare that someone may walk in at 10:45.

                      Not saying it's right to walk in at 10:45, but the posted hours are the posted hours, and people sometimes don't have the option of trying to get something to eat at "normal" hours. (see my post about traveling elsewhere)

                      1. re: sunshine842

                        You're *interpreting* the 11:00 posted time as a "last call" to order dinner. Restaurants have different policies so it's best to ask rather than presume.

                        Based on your post further down the thread -


                        you really *do* know how these things work.

                        A little discussion with the FOH staff before you sit down prevents misunderstandings. Like you said, ordering food to go is a way around potential problems. Sometimes ordering a more limited meal that can be eaten relatively quickly is another way to handle a timing situation.

                        1. re: Bob Martinez

                          the fact that I recognize that closing time is approaching doesn't mean that everyone else will. If there's no "kitchen close" time posted, then "kitchen close" and "door close" can be reasonably assumed to be the same...as is the summary of all of these "closing time" threads.

                          But nobody gets to interview people when they walk in the door at 10:50, and they need to be prepared to provide full service, just like they would at 6:50.

                          You can't know what they've been dealing with that brings them to walk through the door ten minutes before close...e.g., the time I went out to eat with family after visiting hours at the hospital where we had the last chance to see a loved one who died the next day. We were exhausted, mentally and physically, and we really just needed fuel to get us through what we knew would be difficult next few days. (and to our credit, we didn't just walk in and expect to be served -- we asked if we could still get a meal, and the server commented at how hangdog we all looked as we were seated. Not everyone will be considerate.)

                          1. re: sunshine842

                            "But nobody gets to interview people when they walk in the door at 10:50, and they need to be prepared to provide full service, just like they would at 6:50."

                            It's their place. They get to decide. You can live with their policy or you can find another restaurant.

                            "and to our credit, we didn't just walk in and expect to be served -- we asked if we could still get a meal, and the server commented at how hangdog we all looked as we were seated. Not everyone will be considerate.)"

                            Once again you did the right thing, just like you did in your other post I quoted.

                            1. re: Bob Martinez

                              Obviously, the OP's boss has decided that in-the-door-by-close means they get served.

                              1. re: sunshine842

                                Agreed. Probably because he's desperate for business.

                                1. re: Bob Martinez

                                  which makes him just one of thousands -- economic hard times and new businesses tend to make people hungry to attract and keep customers.

                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                    If this guy was doing great business with walk ins at 10:45 then he'd staff for it and change his closing time. Instead he cut the night staff from 5 to 1.

                                    The marginal increase in revenue from the occasional late dining table isn't going the change things much. He's deluding himself.

                                    1. re: Bob Martinez

                                      and that's his right, as the owner.

                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                        I didn't say the owner was wrong. It's his place and he gets to make the rules.

                                        Another restaurant could be different. Their 11:00PM closing time might be the time they expect you to settle up and leave.

                                        What I've been saying all along is that an 11:00PM closing time can mean different things at different restaurants. Any customer that thinks that an 11:00PM closing time allows them to pop into any restaurant at 10:55 and order a full meal is going to be disappointed sometimes.

                                        It's best to ask the staff.

                      2. re: Bob Martinez

                        Lets look at it another way. If a hardware store says it closes at 9:00PM you wouldn't walk in there at 8:55 to shop for the 30 items you need to renovate your kitchen.

                        Yes I would.

                          1. re: PotatoHouse

                            If you tipped them all a hundred bucks each, maybe. But a hardware store is not in the hospitality business either.

                            1. re: coll

                              They are either open or they are not. If they don't want customers walking in the door at 8:55 then close at 8:30.

                              1. re: PotatoHouse

                                But then you'd walk in at 8:25 to get your 30 items, lol. Closing time means the time the store closes. It's up to the customer to get there in time to complete their purchases prior to that closing. Within reason, of course.

                                1. re: carolinadawg

                                  Granted I wouldn't walk in 5 minutes before closing expecting to browse the aisles and comparison shopping for those 30 items, but if I knew exactly what I wanted and needed and knew that i could gather said items in a reasonable (read"short") amount of time, then I would feel no compunction.

                                  1. re: PotatoHouse

                                    Yes, I agree, but that's not the situation you described previously.

                                    1. re: carolinadawg

                                      Actually I didn't describe a situation. Bob described a situation with no real parameters and I responded to it.

                                      1. re: PotatoHouse

                                        That changes everything. Revise my previous post to "that's not the situation you said you'd participate in previously."

                                        All better?

                                    2. re: PotatoHouse

                                      I work retail and they cruise in 5 minutes before closing and take their sweet time. Somebody does it every night, usually multiple people. Then there are the ones standing in front of the locked doors ten minutes before opening, peering inside and nervously looking at their watch.

                                      1. re: James Cristinian

                                        What's wrong with the ones there early? (full disclosure, I've been that one). They aren't bothering any body. Pretty much any time that's ever been me, the store opens at precisely .the "opening" time, so it's not like anyone seems to feel pressured to open early

                                        1. re: DGresh

                                          As someone who works in the field I can imagine scenarios in which the doors may be opened before everything is completely ready for business. This is certainly not the fault of customers, but can be stressful for an ill-prepared employee (more likely to happen with a very small business).

                                          1. re: Midlife

                                            I work at a big place and it happens. People call in sick, pos problem, registers not ready. I won't even walk in to a place until it's been open five minutes, and I'm not going to stand around with my hands on my hips pissed off because somebody didn't help you the second you walked in.

                                          2. re: DGresh

                                            Say it's 9:55 and I come in for my 10 am shift, I get the question what time do you open? I tell them 10 and they point to their 5 minute ahead set watch and get the it's 10 now. No it's not it's 9:55 with a few dirty looks from others. It happens all the time, and it's annoying.

                                            1. re: James Cristinian

                                              Ask to see their cell phone. The time shown there is accurate because it comes from the carrier's network.

                                              1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                Next time I'll just tell them to check their phones. I want as little interaction as possible until I clock in and get ready to work.

                                              2. re: James Cristinian

                                                Keep the door locked until opening time?

                                              3. re: DGresh

                                                I worked at a store in the mall where we had the room to stack up a lot of merchandise in the vestibule. We sold kitchen equipment so that was where we would stack up toasters ovens and such. I always opened alone and would wait until 10 on the dot to open the doors, hoping I would have time to push those little towers out the door. Half the time folks would push by me so there I am trying to watch the store and get things organized -- but they couldn't check out until I was behind the cash register. If you haven't worked retail, you don't have any idea how crazy we are as customers.

                                                1. re: escondido123

                                                  The crazy ones have turned me into a nice customer.

                                          3. re: carolinadawg

                                            Whenever "closing" time is, there is always going to be a transition from being fully open to being fully closed. How that transition is handled is up to the business owner. For example, some may have "last call" (or order) 15 minutes before closing. Some may choose to fully serve all patrons who arrive before the stated closing time. Some may choose to let their staff start cleaning, or politely hurry customers along; some, as in this case, do not. That's completely up to the owner, not the staff, nor is it the responsibility of the customer to ignore the business's policy in favor of some kind of rule of etiquette.

                                            The owner of this business has made it quite clear how he wants to handle "closing" -- that's his right, and if you work there you either accept it or work somewhere else.

                                            What you don't accept is not being paid for the time you are required to work! It sounds as if the poster merely asked the labor department for suggestions about what to do. Now it's time to make a formal complaint and then follow up on it. Document the time that's not being paid, and go back and reconstruct how much unpaid time has been worked. The employer should be liable for both back pay and penalties.

                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                              I completely agree with you, Ruth. But there are those who would still bash as rude anyone who dared walk through the door 5 minutes before "last call".

                                              1. re: PotatoHouse

                                                It amazes me how many posters on this site bash people for being rude or wrong when they are simply following the business's policy, rather than some random person's personal rule of "etiquette." (I'm thinking, for example, of all the people who say it's terrible to take something back to Trader Joe's, even though that's Trader Joe's explicit policy and in fact, an important element of its business model!).

                                                Just because YOU would never do something doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong when someone else does.

                                  2. re: sunshine842

                                    "Finish your education as quickly as you can -- then you can rip off your apron on the way out the door, just the rest of us did."

                                    I don't know why the OP or any younger person would be eager to do so, given your own description on this thread of your apparently nightmarish work life. Yikes.

                                    Kids! These are tough times, but I don't hate my underpaid job! (just the underpaid part).

                                    1. re: ratgirlagogo

                                      I love my job 95% of the time -- and don't figure that's all that out of line with the general public.

                                      Happily, I end up at a restaurant 30 minutes before closing time incredibly rarely...but it does happen.

                                  3. re: RMCF1

                                    If your boss can't employ enough people to do the work required, things are not good. You're not doing yourself any favours by staying in this job if it's going under anyway. Start leaving at the end of your shift. Tell your boss you can no longer work unpaid hours. If you have pay stubs (ie he is paying you legally), you can report the whole thing. So you're actually in control here. Maybe you need the job, but is the job going to be there when he goes under?

                                    1. re: RMCF1

                                      RMCFI I used to work at a seven eleven type of chain in Gainesville FL and I was alone in a store that closed at eleven pm. We didn't get paid after eleven but the employee was supposed to mop and leave everything perfect including pulling the milk soda and beer forward in the refrigerators so that there were no gaps etc etc.
                                      I kept trying to leave shortly after eleven but found myself feeling frustrated by last minute customers. So I just didn't even start cleaning much til after eleven to reduce the stress. Darn if the area manager didn't drive past and see me there at eleven thirty and scold me. It is hard to be put in between a rock and a hard place.
                                      Once my friend John and I were at a McDonald's that decided to close their lobby an hour early because they were short staffed. They told us they were closing and when we didn't leave immediately and took like two minutes to finish our food they gave us some nasty glares. We never went back.
                                      This sounds like a bad situation. I'm sensitive to vibes so if I was being oblivious the puppy dog eyes would probably get me moving let alone stares of doom.

                                2. re: sunshine842

                                  But Sunshine, one could ask the same of you. Why do you think your circumstances make you more worthy of accommodation than the restaurant workers?

                                  Then, in your post from earlier today,

                                  "sunshine842 about 1 hour ago

                                  You have to take care of yourself physically, particularly when you're traveling (screwy hours, missed/late meals, heavy and rich when you do eat).

                                  I'm not going to make myself ill just to spare someone working until their posted hours end. I'm more than willing to try to not make that any longer than necessary, but we all live together on this planet, and if everybody gives JUST THAT MUCH (hold fingers a few millimetres apart) everybody ends up content, if not ecstatic."

                                  Remember, we're talking about expecting others to work *beyond* their posted hours. You seem to again place more importance on your needs. Your health while traveling is your responsibility. If solutions like a quick trip to the grocery store and a collapsible cooler don't appeal to you, then at least acknowledge that you've made that choice.
                                  Others, whose circumstances you know nothing about and may actually cause yours to pale in comparison, should not pick up your slack.
                                  Welcome to adulthood. Time to take responsibility for yourself. I've traveled, I've missed meals, and learned.
                                  Have not felt entitled to make others make it right for me.
                                  You can. Doesn't mean you should.

                                3. re: RMCF1

                                  If you are on the job and not being paid, that seems illegal to me. I'm assuming you are paid hourly and not salaried.

                                    1. re: rasputina

                                      Meaning what? What is "entitlement mentality"? And what does it mean here?

                                    2. re: RMCF1

                                      You're right. The customers are jerks. Some people have a sense of entitlement a mile wide. As a customer, once I look around and realize I'm one of the last ones in the dining room I finish up and leave. You should treat other people as you'd like to be treated yourself.

                                      That said, you really have no choice except to put up with this as long as you're in that job.

                                      1. re: RMCF1

                                        Where do you live that it's legal to only pay you for the half hour? In the states you must be paid for all of your time spent working.

                                        1. re: Missmoo

                                          The original poster hasn't been back to this thread in one day and it's only their 2nd time posting to this community.

                                          1. re: Missmoo

                                            I love in a ontario.

                                            I'll specify that I technically have two bosses--him and his wife. His wife, in contrast, allows is to mop, sweep etc after closing around customers as were closed. She doesn't allow annnyone in after closing whereas he does.

                                            Come 10:45, the kitchen is normally closed as we start cleaning it then. She has no problem with it. However, he's the opposite and even if we're cleaning, he'll serve people hot food even when the kitchen is closed.

                                            1. re: RMCF1

                                              I can see the opposing rules being confusing to the employees.

                                              1. re: coll

                                                true, but as above, all the OP can do is say "yay, I'll be out on time" when she's running the show, and brace his/her self for a late night when he's running it.

                                                Starting an argument between the managers, especially when they're married AND the owners, isn't ever going to go well.

                                              2. re: RMCF1

                                                (glad you came back)

                                                then it sounds like you are not in a situation that is going to change.

                                                Working without pay is illegal, including in Ontario. You have every right to discuss this with him.

                                                But if he chooses to open the kitchen for guests who walk in a closing time, it's his restaurant and his decision. You can choose to continue to work after hours (assuming, of course, that you can resolve the whole work-for-free issue) -- or you can find somewhere else to work.

                                                Pointing out to him that his wife allows it is putting you squarely in the middle of a domestic situation, and I would strongly suggest you avoid setting one against the other at all costs -- you will not ever win when you're in the middle.

                                                It's his ball and his field and his game, so it's his rules -- but you don't have to play.

                                        2. When you become the owner/boss, you'll understand.

                                          You get paid regardless of whether the restaurant is packed from opening to closing (whenever that may be), or if it's empty the entire day.

                                          Your boss does not.

                                          13 Replies
                                          1. re: ipsedixit

                                            I used to work with my boss in another cafe before he decided to open up his own.

                                            Come closing time, the lights were off whether people were still in or not, and he would mop under their feet no matter what.

                                            I don't see why one can't, after store hours mop further away from the client.

                                            More than half the time, they're not eating and instead are chatting away inconsiderately.

                                            1. re: RMCF1

                                              the key phrase here is that it's his own restaurant. It's different because now it's *his* money.

                                              1. re: RMCF1

                                                I used to work with my boss in another cafe before he decided to open up his own.

                                                You just answered your own post.

                                                1. re: RMCF1

                                                  "I don't see why one can't, after store hours mop further away from the client. "

                                                  Because some people, especially Mrs. B can't stand the smell of mop. She'll get up and walk out.

                                                  BUT>>>>>>>>>If your boss is only paying you til 11:30 you don't have to stay another minute or clean after that time. He is NOT entitled to free labor. Log you actual hours, take time/date stamped selfies. You have a claim to make with your state labor department. You say you are a stident, so this is not a permanent job, at the end of the semester, or graduation, make your claim (after giving your boss the opportunity to pay up first).

                                                  1. re: bagelman01

                                                    Report him regardless. If he just pays this person off he will continue to exploit his other employees.

                                                2. re: ipsedixit

                                                  The boss also gets to keep the profits. His salary isn't capped. There's no comparison.

                                                    1. re: ipsedixit

                                                      "Who's comparing?"

                                                      You are.
                                                      You get paid regardless of whether the restaurant is packed from opening to closing (whenever that may be), or if it's empty the entire day.

                                                      Your boss does not.

                                                        1. re: ipsedixit

                                                          "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

                                                          1. re: Bob Martinez

                                                            and we all know what happened to Humpty Dumpty.

                                                    2. re: Bob Martinez

                                                      And he gets to eat the losses, which let's face it is what happens with most restaurants, then they close.

                                                      1. re: JoannaNYC

                                                        In this case what the boss is doing is asking the OP to work for free in order to make his restaurant profitable.

                                                  1. < I'm also NOT Paid if not done cleaning everything by then >
                                                    Are you a salary position ?
                                                    Or paid hourly ?
                                                    Do you have a time clock ?
                                                    Or write your hours down ?
                                                    What does your labor law say ?
                                                    It's not about the customers. It's about you.

                                                    15 Replies
                                                    1. re: emglow101

                                                      no, it's about the customers....because with no customers, there's no cafe...and no paycheck.

                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                        I meant to say. It's not about the customer. Meaning, they have every right to stay after hours if thats policy. No big deal. The employee should be paid for his or her work. That's the problem.

                                                      2. re: emglow101

                                                        We're paid hourly and our hours are written down. However, if we're not done cleaning by the time the schedule says, we work for free. Doesn't matter if it's one hour, two or three.

                                                        1. re: RMCF1

                                                          Did you sign a agreement that makes you do this ?

                                                          1. re: emglow101

                                                            No, its just what he's told us numerous times. He said if we're not fast enough to clean and he's giving us a 1/2 hr paid, then we work for free 'cause its our problem.

                                                              1. re: RMCF1

                                                                then I'll urge you again to find somewhere else to work. Being asked to stay after is the way of the world -- but asking you to work after you clock out **when you are hourly** is just plain wrong (and blatantly illegal, by the way)

                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                  Yep! Therein lies the rub. The OP is being taken... not by the patrons of the cafe, but by the owner.

                                                                  OP - direct your indignation toward your boss, not the customers.

                                                                  (OK... read further down and now realize I'm just parroting others...sorry!)

                                                                  1. re: chowyadoin99

                                                                    Especially since the OP revealed they are the last remaining employee. What exactly is going on?

                                                                    The entire thread sifted on point once the OP shared being unpaid for "after hour" work and many of us focused on who is actually at fault here (boss, not customer).

                                                              2. re: RMCF1

                                                                If you're hourly, you should get paid for the hours you work. If you don't, your beef is with your boss, not the customers.

                                                                It doesn't really matter what your boss says. He can fire you for being slow if he likes. But he can't make you work without pay, and he can't fire you for demanding to be paid for the hours you work - either is illegal. Boss owes you money.

                                                                1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                  Exactly. It's not the fault of the customers that your boss is engaging in illegal labor practices.

                                                                  1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                    Are you in the US? The Department of Labor is pretty clear on payment of hourly workers. I agree that your beef is with your boss.

                                                                    1. re: tcamp

                                                                      Or Canada. This would be illegal here too. .

                                                              3. By café, do you mean they are not having dinner but merely coffee and light fare? If that's the case, anything more than half an hour after serving ends seems excessive to me, but the owner sets the policy as he pleases. No one else can tell a customer it's time to leave except someone delegated that authority.

                                                                You need to be paid for all the time you are on the job. If you are not, that's a basis for complaint.

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: GH1618

                                                                  agreed, but that conversation needs to take place with the owner, not the customers.

                                                                2. Honestly, I don't see this as the customers problem.
                                                                  It's how your boss operates and what you've accepted as working conditions. You've known him long enough to know whether or not you can discuss this with them. The fact that you are not paid up until the time you leave your shift is also an issue you work out with your boss.

                                                                  But the customer is a) clueless about your working conditions and b) isn't suppose to be. I would have no way of knowing this was going on at the restaurant unless it was pointed out to me that I had to leave.

                                                                  I wish you better communication with your employer.

                                                                  9 Replies
                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                    "you've accepted as working conditions"

                                                                    There are some things that are illegal. Doesn't matter whether one "accepts" it or not. An hourly working not being paid for required work time is not legal.

                                                                    1. re: DGresh

                                                                      No kidding. I didn't say accepts as a good thing, not by a long stretch but frankly the OP started out blaming the customer and not really expressing how she was dealing with her employer. So yes, I agree with everyone stating 10 times over that this arrangement after hours isn't legal or right or fair, or or or

                                                                      but I don't see why this OP was ever about the customer. Misplaced anger...frustration.

                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                        It also makes me wonder how long the OP has been unaware that the owner is taking serious advantage and what reasons they have given.

                                                                        Had it not been for her writing the OP and asking for advice from members of this community would they still not question the boss? Pretty awful to consider that.

                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                          Ok, just seemed like lots of people (which I thought was including you) were saying "you made your bed, sleep in it. Suck it up. Life stinks. I walked twenty miles in the snow each way to school when I was young". You get the picture. Yeah, life is tough, but some things are just plain illegal.

                                                                          1. re: DGresh

                                                                            Not at all. I am not of that mindset. But like I said the original OP was aimed at customers taking advantage only to learn that this employee has bigger issues going on at work that have nothing to do with customers.

                                                                            The person telling this individual to suck it up is the boss.

                                                                            1. re: DGresh

                                                                              Please let me make this absolutely crystal clear.

                                                                              Being asked to stay late to clean up is not unusual, and the OP needs to suck it up or go somewhere else.

                                                                              Being asked to stay late to clean up AND NOT GET PAID is unusual, unfair, and illegal, and the OP should talk to the owner or go somewhere else.

                                                                              Two entirely different issues, with totally different opinions on each.

                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                weren't you the one who made the comparison to salaried employees, who don't get paid for "overtime"? Sounded like you were saying "join the club".

                                                                                1. re: DGresh

                                                                                  I was, until it was clarified that the OP had two separate issues going on.

                                                                                  Working overtime -- join the club.

                                                                                  Working overtime for free -- illegal and wrong -- complain or leave (or both)

                                                                                2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                  Exactly. And that is exactly how I've interpreted every reply. The OP started out discussing their reaction to customers and ended up revealing something entirely diff about her working conditions. Comments here have addressed diff points at very diff points in the conversation.

                                                                        2. Speaking only for myself, I will tell you that when I see the store/cafe hours posted "9 am to 11 pm" (or similar), I make sure that I'm walking out the door no later than 11 pm. Why? Because I figure that the people who clean the place have to do it after I leave, and I'm sure that they would like to do their jobs and get home at a reasonable hour.

                                                                          I don't know where you live, but if you live in the USA and you are an hourly (not salaried) employee, then it is illegal for your employer to force you to be on the job for hours for which you receive no pay.

                                                                          All of that being said, if when you were hired, your boss said, "look, the sign says we close at 11 pm but often guests stay later and I don't want to kick them out. So understand if you take this job, you might not be able to start cleaning until after midnight. However, you'll be paid for all the hours that you are actually here on the job" -- well, if your boss had said those things to you when you signed on for the job, I would agree that you have no legitimate complaint now.

                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                          1. re: MrsPatmore

                                                                            Well, if he said I will pay you for those hours then he didn't, the OP has a legitimate complaint.

                                                                          2. I don't blame you. A couple of years ago when my H was working for a big box home improvement store, they'd countdown the closing on the store's PA. "Attention shoppers, it is now 9:30 (9:45, 9:50, etc)"...invariably, there would be customers that would come in at 9:59, order a bunch of custom cuts, and H would be there until 10:35.

                                                                            Difference is...he got paid, AND there was another shift coming in behind him to restock, reshelve, and clean up.

                                                                            Is the problem that you're staying late, or that you're not being paid to do so--in other words, if you were paid, would it be as onerous? If getting an extra hour's pay would do it, I would do is talk to your boss and tell him that you're happy to stay, but you need to be paid--you can't donate an hour's salary to his business.

                                                                            If that didn't work, I would find another job if possible. Two rudes (customers who overstay, and a boss who tacitly expects workers to work an extra hour without pay) don't make for an ideal workplace.

                                                                            Not a direct equal, but my local sleepytown pizza place closes at 10PM. They stop taking "pick up/to go" orders at 9:45, and stop taking "eat in" orders at 9:20. If you're eating in at 10:05PM, you'll see them starting to mop down. The pizza place does a booming biz.

                                                                            15 Replies
                                                                            1. re: pinehurst

                                                                              and, as we discussed in other threads, if they post this publicly, then all is cool.

                                                                              I try not to walk in at 10 minutes til close, mostly because I figure I'll get a lousy meal from people who want to go home and are resentful that I dare show my face, **even though I'm there during posted opening hours**.

                                                                              BUT I've been traveling on more than one occasion when meetings that ran late, traffic jams, and delayed flights mean that if I don't get something to eat 10 minutes before close, I'm not going to get anything at all to eat tonight (and chances are I skipped lunch if it's been that crazy of a day). I'll also usually get it to go, because I'm in no mood to sit there -- I just want to go back to my hotel, eat, and collapse.

                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                <I just want to go back to my hotel, eat and collapse>

                                                                                With a schedule like you seem to have isn't it prudent to put room service on your list and forget about rushing to a restaurant before it closes?
                                                                                For those who travel, frequently, as I do…
                                                                                Room service is my best friend.
                                                                                Recently I ordered room service in a hotel in SF and the food was better than most of the restaurants in the area.

                                                                                1. re: latindancer

                                                                                  room service is not typically an option. At all.

                                                                                  Despite the holdover perception, modern business travelers do not stay in 4-star hotels and coast from one three-star table to another.

                                                                                  it's a lot of long days and short nights with a tight per diem -- and room service usually isn't on the perk list.

                                                                                  Add to that the frequent international travel I do -- and the whole myth of expense-report glamour is simply a long-dead myth.

                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                    We obviously don't travel or work in the same circles.

                                                                                    As I've stated, room service is an option for me.
                                                                                    If I didn't have it as an option then I'd find a place where I could take something away.
                                                                                    I would never think of walking into a restaurant with 10 minutes left for them to stay open and expect them to wait for me to eat and leave.

                                                                                    1. re: latindancer

                                                                                      we obviously have different reading styles, too, because otherwise you'd have seen that I have stated repeated that I ask...and/or ask for takeout.

                                                                                      If they seat me at ten minutes to close, though, they don't then get to give me the bum's rush...if I asked and they said to sit, then I expect to be given at least a decent amount of time. I adamantly am NOT talking about camping with coffee afterward.

                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                        I've read your posts and I understand where you're coming from. The difference between you and me is that I wouldn't walk through that door with 10 minutes left before closing.
                                                                                        This way they wouldn't have to seat me, they wouldn't have to wait on me and they wouldn't have to wonder when in the hell they'd be able to all go home from an exhausting day from waiting on everyone all day long.
                                                                                        That's just MY style.

                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                          To butt in....... It just seems that there are a significant proportion of people who don't seem to take notice of posted closing times at all. An unlocked door and being seated are all the welcome they need. Just my opinion, but that seems to be the nature of the restaurant business. Not that there aren't those that will do what they can to make you aware there's an end to the day.

                                                                                          1. re: Midlife

                                                                                            Yeah, I definitely do that. If the door's open, lights are on, and people are there, I don't look at the posted hours. If I was the only customer, I'd check or ask, but not otherwise.

                                                                                          2. re: latindancer

                                                                                            You have to take care of yourself physically, particularly when you're traveling (screwy hours, missed/late meals, heavy and rich when you do eat).

                                                                                            I'm not going to make myself ill just to spare someone working until their posted hours end. I'm more than willing to try to not make that any longer than necessary, but we all live together on this planet, and if everybody gives JUST THAT MUCH (hold fingers a few millimetres apart) everybody ends up content, if not ecstatic.

                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                              <if everybody gives JUST THAT MUCH>

                                                                                              That's your perspective. From my perspective I'm giving 'just that much' (holding fingers a few millimeters apart) by not imposing on someone who's been working their ass off for people all day long.
                                                                                              I'm able to take care of myself physically, emotionally and spiritually when I travel…I've never been anywhere on this planet where there isn't something healthy available 24/7.
                                                                                              But, then, I don't have to go somewhere where it's imperative someone's waiting on me to find it.

                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                <I'm not going to make myself ill just to spare someone working until their posted hours end>

                                                                                                I can't imagine, unless I'm traveling to the middle of Siberia, having to contend with illness just because I couldn't find something to eat.
                                                                                                Regardless, those who have to wait on people who come through the door 10 minutes before closing?
                                                                                                I can't imagine leaving a tip under 40% to compensate for their consideration.

                                                                                                1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                  "I can't imagine leaving a tip under 40% to compensate for their consideration."

                                                                                                  Oh, please, please, please....... stop by where I work late! As I've posted, many guests pay no attention to posted hours, but many also do. Some even seem to tip better when we've served them and they become aware it's past closing ........ but not 40%.

                                                                                                  1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                    I can. I get migraines if I go too long without eating. I keep a granola bar on me but it's not actually enough food. Fortunately, I can find a restaurant to grab a quick bite. It's very annoying to contend with but, if I get a migraine, I'm out of commission for several hours and spend the next few days feeling like I've been punched in the head.

                                                                                      2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                        Sorry you should have to "dare show your face during posted business hours" but you can't expect the staff to wait until someone shows up in such dire circumstances. I suggest you call ahead and buy the staff a few extra minutes and you'll probably get a better meal. It is also been suggested in other threads a little planning ahead could at least hold you over until morning, and I know you'll have early meetings and delayed flights, but as pointed out, it's your job, just as it's the restaurant workers, sucks for everyone.

                                                                                        1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                          I don't think you understand....all the planning in the world doesn't do a fucking thing for you when things happen that are far beyond anything you could possible plan for or control.

                                                                                          It's easier with smartphones, but stopping to research and call is, in this situation, just enough time to guarantee that you'll find a locked door.

                                                                                          Please read again -- I do my best to acknowledge that there are folks who want to get home (ordering takeout when I detest eating in my hotel room because then my room just smells like takeout)...a little return acknowledgement that I wouldn't be there at that hour unless things had gone pretty seriously off the rails is not that much to ask.

                                                                                          Consideration runs both ways.

                                                                                    2. Call the Dept of Labor for your state. They will give you advice. You are owed money.

                                                                                      1. I'm sorry your boss doesn't pay you for all the hours you work. Around here, that's illegal.

                                                                                        At my place, if customers show up at a minute before closing, they usually stick their heads in the door and timidly ask, "Are you still open?" At that, I throw the door open wide and say, "Of COURSE we are! Come on in! Make yourselves comfortable and don't worry about the time. Stay as long as you like. What can I bring you?"

                                                                                        Because we are, of course, in the hospitality business. These "inconsiderate shitheads" of *yours* are *our* guests, and this may be the earliest they could get to us, and if they learn they can count on us I may just be able to keep my house and possibly even put my kids through college.

                                                                                        If this doesn't suit you, perhaps you should look for some other line of work.

                                                                                        Our staff knows that they may do some modest cleanup during this time but nothing obnoxious like vacuuming or mopping around our guests' feet. If this means they must stay late they are of course paid, and may even go into overtime.

                                                                                        1. Your issue is really with your boss. I don't understand why you blame the customers. You should be paid for working, that includes serving, cooking or cleaning....doesn't matter. You are still working. Your boss is shafting you and knows it.

                                                                                          Customers come in, order and eat because the door is open, lights are on, and someone is there to serve them. It might sound crazy to you..but they assume you want their business when you are open.

                                                                                          Many cafés/stores will lock their doors at closing time (not allowing more customers to come in) at least giving a more subtle hint to lingering customers that it is closing time. I don't think that most customers would be offended at that -but mopping around their feet is rude.

                                                                                          10 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: sedimental

                                                                                            I am part of a yarn group that meets regularly at a local Starbucks, which closes at 9. By 8 they are already starting to sweep and mop. By 8:45 they dim some of the lights and remind customers that they close at 9. We are usually out the door at 9; sometimes a few minutes earlier, but NEVER later. I am not in the least bit offended that they mop around our feet and between tables, and no one else in the group has ever objected either.

                                                                                            As far as the OP's dilemma goes, I agree that the beef should be with the boss. He either needs to enforce the closing time, or pay his employee for actual time worked.

                                                                                            1. re: greygarious

                                                                                              Well, I would not want cleaning products and "wet"work going on around me while still eating, drinking, or directly after finishing my food in a reasonable time. Yuk. I think that is unappetizing, unhealthy, and rude. YMMV.

                                                                                              Locking the door, straightening up, dimming lights, etc are more subtle reminders that it is now after hours and to finish up. The OP's boss might allow the more subtle hints so that customers are not routinely staying 40 minutes after closing. 40 minutes seems like a long time to stay after, to me.

                                                                                              Maybe the boss is not allowing *any* closing activities in front of customers? If that is true, then that boss is really taking advantage of the employees. There should be a grey area between not mentioning closing at all and mopping under customers feet.

                                                                                              1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                I wouldn't want the floor under my feet mopped. But, it is winter and I live in an area that requires salting - I wouldn't want to see the floor if it had gone all day without mopping either.

                                                                                                I'm with you on the rest though.

                                                                                                1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                  Id have less a problem with it if he allowed us to hint that we were closing, however, he doesn't even allow us to remove the empty plates from their table as he feels its our way of telling them to leave, nor does he let us dim any lights.

                                                                                                  Trust me, I'd much prefer the subtle hints over mopping feet. His wifes philosophy is that come closing, everyone should be out, his however is to never turn anyone away no matter how late after closing it is

                                                                                                  1. re: RMCF1

                                                                                                    I'm wondering if he isn't in a rush to go home to wifey, perhaps?

                                                                                                    1. re: coll

                                                                                                      actually, sounds like "being the boss" is turning out to be a lot more stressful than he thought it would be, and he's trying to make sure he can make the rent, the leases, and the payroll.

                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                        I've seen both sides of that story!

                                                                                                        1. re: coll

                                                                                                          lots of us have -- it's scary as hell, and makes for thin spots in the carpet because you're pacing half the night.

                                                                                                          But my open comment to the owner? Suck it up and pay your employees the wages they earn. This is the way the world works, and you don't get to save a few bucks by screwing over your employees. And if you insist on letting people walk through the door at 5 after 11? Serve 'em yourself while your people clean up, then finish the cleanup by yourself.

                                                                                                        2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                          Quite likely; but ripping off your employees is not an acceptable solution.

                                                                                                          1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                            uh, that's what I said - I'll assume we crisscrossed in the edit.

                                                                                              2. Let me ask you this question, If you were paid for this extra hour or two etc. would you still have posted this thread? Is the issue really the customers staying late and you missing a party, or the fact you're not getting paid. Let's really focus on the problem.

                                                                                                If it's not getting paid, as a lot of people already told you, as an hourly wage employee, your employer is most likely wrong for not paying you, and you should address that with him.

                                                                                                If it's just about the time issue, suck it up that's the business. Find another job.

                                                                                                1. It's pretty obvious that the owner is breaking the labor law of every US state that I know of. "We have 1/2 hour after closing paid to clean. After that it's free." That's just plain crazy. The owner can say that you have 1/2 hour to clean up..,.... That's fine. If you can't finish by then the owner could fire you (rightly or wrongly) but making you continue to work and not paying you for it is clearly illegal in the US.

                                                                                                  It's pretty much a given in the hospitality biz that you close when the last guest leaves. Some people just don't care or are unaware of posted closing times. That goes with the territory.

                                                                                                  Report your boss or quit. Your choice. Short of either, you might try getting a copy of your state's labor code and show the owner the part (it's in ALL of them) that says you must be paid for time worked. He/she might just be clueless........ maybe.

                                                                                                  1. If he insists that you allow patrons to stay past the posted hours of operation, he is obligated to pay you for the time you are working. After all, you can't just hand the customers the keys and tell them to lock up when they are done.

                                                                                                    I used to work as a server in restaurants where we allowed patrons to stay after hours, but we always got paid even if I didn't get out until 3 am because they just wouldn't leave as they sucked down their 50th cup of free refill coffee.

                                                                                                    1. It sounds like a boss problem, not a customer problem.

                                                                                                      If customers are allowed to enter the cafe and order up until the stated closing time, then they should be allowed to finish what they purchased in a similar time frame to ordering during the day. If they should be out by 11pm, then the cafe should stop admitting people 45 minutes to an hour before then.

                                                                                                      If your boss is expecting you to stay and not paying you, that's not really the customers' fault.

                                                                                                      1. It happens. Deal or get a new job.

                                                                                                        1. Like most people said, if the cafe is open till 11 that means customers are welcome to come in till 11. Now hopefully they don't sit around and chit chat till midnight.

                                                                                                          I agree that you should be paid for that work, and most places you are. Of course once the last patron leaves there goes your real income, tips. Face it in most jurisdictions food service employees, at least front of the house, are "exempt" positions where you don't get minimum wage.

                                                                                                          So yes, you are getting a raw deal, but pretty much everyone in food service knows thats the game. And it's true whether you are working at McDonalds or Chez Platinum.

                                                                                                          1. I agree with everyone else. This is just the way the public works. But your boss should be reported to the department of labor. It's illegal to expect hourly workers to work for free after the time you stop paying them. Document everything and then go to the labor department, or get another job where they don't do this. But you'll always have to stay later than you want when you work in a customer-facing job like retail or restaurants. as many nights as I had to stay late in restaurants because of campers, I also had to stay late in retail stores with the only open register and only half the lights on, because a customer insisted on staying past closing time. People are rude and selfish, they don't care what else you have to do with your life. If you want set hours that allow you to leave as soon as your scheduled time is done, you need to get a different type of job. Which, as someone pointed out above, is what many of us did. I left retail/restaurant to go to hourly office work. They are much more careful about not breaking labor laws and extremely reluctant to pay OT, so when it's 5, it's 5, and you leave.

                                                                                                            11 Replies
                                                                                                            1. re: rockandroller1

                                                                                                              I had a situation like this at my last job. The dept of labor said, tell your boss you are in violation of statute whatever, so I did. His reply was, I don't care because it's not fair to me or somesuch. He went on for at least a half hour and I gave up, since I wasn't ready to quit on the spot (this was a much bigger job than working in a café, for what it's worth). And it's not like I could afford to hire a lawyer and take him to court. Live and learn.

                                                                                                              1. re: coll

                                                                                                                This is precisely why I didn't take a loud stand on the legal issue of what the OP eventually shared about the boss. I don't know all the parameters, its easy from the comfort of home to make assumptions and all any of us can do is listen and offer the benefit of experience.

                                                                                                                But I'm not a lawyer and I don't know why the OP is vulnerable to this job beyond being angry.

                                                                                                                1. re: coll

                                                                                                                  I had to tell an employer once that he was required by the labor board to do XYZ and they immediately complied. If they hadn't I'd have reported them. You don't have to take him to court.

                                                                                                                  1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                    My boss would not have complied if it killed him, believe me. That was before he went to jail for something else, but that's a story for another day....

                                                                                                                    1. re: coll

                                                                                                                      Oh I believe you when you say he didn't comply. Obviously there is a certain faction of "humanity" with a FU, I'll do what I want attitude.

                                                                                                                      1. re: coll

                                                                                                                        He would've complied or been fined by the Dept of Labor. I do believe, at least in NJ, they can take away your business license. Not surprised to hear that person ended up in jail for whatever.

                                                                                                                  2. re: rockandroller1

                                                                                                                    More likely than not, the DoL won't do anything.

                                                                                                                    1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                                                                      Yes, the DOL is unlikely to think much of this.

                                                                                                                      My state is a no fault firing state so the OP might get fired for complaining (if his boss is so inclined) where I live. In these states, your boss can fired you "just because".

                                                                                                                      It would be best to appeal to your boss and problem solve it, if possible.

                                                                                                                      1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                        Yes, it really is that simple. I work in a very small wine bar/wine shop that has posted hours but it's understood that only behind-the-scenes cleanup is done until the last customer leaves, no matter what time that is. On the slow days of the week that last customer is often the only one in the place for as much as an hour before posted closing. I say nothing about that unless I'm asked. I work alone on all those days, so trying to do some cleanup while providing service and wine conversation can be a challenge. It is what it is.

                                                                                                                        I'm paid for all hours worked but the owners ask that I note specific reason for signing out late if it's more that 30 minutes past normal. No idea what other reason there would be, but that's their rule.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Midlife

                                                                                                                          and not an unreasonable request.

                                                                                                                        2. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                          Not here. The DoL would fine the company, force them to pay the back wages, and can revoke his business license.

                                                                                                                    2. Easy solution, if you can't handle this type of situation, don't work in the restaurant business.

                                                                                                                      1. I sympathize with your predicament. But you shouldn't be mad at the customers since no one has told them they should leave. As you noted, the problem is between you and the boss so it serves no purpose for you to take it out on the customers. What would be reasonable is to have a sign that says something like "Last order taken at 10:30, cafe closes at 11:00." Then you could go around to tables at about 10:50 and remind people you are closing in 10 minutes. But if your boss won't allow that you either need to find another job or learn to expect that people will stay. I would ask all the folks criticizing you how long they think people should be able to stay. If I go into a restaurant that closes at 10 at 9:45, do I get to stay and order whatever I want for as long as I want? Do I get to stay until midnight, 1 am? There need to be limits.

                                                                                                                        15 Replies
                                                                                                                        1. re: escondido123

                                                                                                                          I hope the OP will take your signage suggestion as one possible opening to work through expectations on the job. I don't envy the situation but as you said and so many already have said, the customers aren't in the position to help or to change the working conditions at the job.

                                                                                                                          To the OP, I wish you much better working conditions and/or the ability to seek better work in your area.

                                                                                                                          1. re: escondido123

                                                                                                                            sorry, if you came to my table 20 minutes after I placed an order (your 10:30) - I probably would have *just* received my plate (sit down, wait for the menus, peruse, place the order, prep time) and told me I needed to vacate, you'd better spend my bill wisely, because it would be the last dime you'd ever get from me, and I would probably contact the owner about the poor behaviour.

                                                                                                                            I'm totally okay with the PA announcements in groceries and things -- because you then have the chance to prioritize, grab the things that are urgent, and head for the door - but not in a sit-down restaurant situation.

                                                                                                                            Most people who are eating that late aren't choosing to dine that late -- something has happened to push the meal that late -- and shoving them out the door before they've even had a chance to choke down half their food is far more rude than entering late.

                                                                                                                            That doesn't mean I condone camping with a cup of coffee when you're the last table out of spite....but there has to be some adaptation from both sides.

                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                              Personally, if I came to a place late -- must admit that is something I never do -- and saw that they stopped taking orders at 10:30 and closed at 11 I would go someplace else or ask to have the order to go. I used to work in retail and I was always amazed at the people who showed up 5 minutes before closing and figured they could browse as long as they wanted. Folks being paid a low wage are not lackeys for those with poor time management skills. If you want to eat late, find a place that is geared to your needs rather than making someone stay open just to serve you.

                                                                                                                              1. re: escondido123

                                                                                                                                Exactly. If it's just before closing I'd either go somewhere else or order something to go.

                                                                                                                                1. re: escondido123

                                                                                                                                  there isn't always someplace that is geared to those needs -- ever travel in small towns, or overseas?

                                                                                                                                  As I think I've mentioned more than enough times, I do ask, and I do frequently ask for it to go.

                                                                                                                                  BUT - there are those who don't, and won't, ask or order it 'to go' and if you seat them with the intention of serving them, then you serve them just like the early birds.

                                                                                                                                  As above -- this doesn't give them carte blanche to screw around and linger over coffee, but if you agree to serve them, then you agree to give them time to eat in a reasonable amount of time.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                    Actually, I often hit up local grocery stores and keep stuff with me when traveling just so I don't get caught starving. And yes, I've traveled overseas, and I've lived in major metro areas and in tiny townswith less than 2000 people more than once and do currently. I'm not sure why you'd assume otherwise.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                      When you're traveling by air for business, it simply isn't possible to stock much more than a couple of granola bars.

                                                                                                                                      And then there are traffic jams, and delayed/cancelled flights, and meetings that run later than you expected, and yes, sitting in the airport cooling your jets until they scrounge up a crappy rental car. Add that to places that don't have 24-hour restaurants, and it means you're frequently SOL, so you try to eat when you can.

                                                                                                                                      I hate eating at 10:30-11 at night, but sometimes you have to do what you gotta do -- and yes, I've eaten vile cup o'soup out of a vending machine when I had no other options. Try that once or twice and you'll understand why trying to get to a restaurant to get something recognizable as food can get important.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                        I've taken/picked up a lot more than a couple of granola bars when traveling for business. Not that hard. At all.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                                                          why would you assume that I don't? It's not what I said at all.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                            You said: "When you're traveling by air for business, it simply isn't possible to stock much more than a couple of granola bars."

                                                                                                                                            Those are your exact words. Not assuming anything.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                                                              and why would I know that, unless I was carrying the granola bars to begin with?

                                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                No idea what you're talking about now.

                                                                                                                                          2. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                                                            When I travel for business, my travel time is frequently more than 24 hours. I generally can't take meat products, liquids, pastes, fruits or vegetables through customs. So yeah, granola bars and some bags of nuts are pretty much what I've got in my emergency food stash.

                                                                                                                                          3. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                            <When you're traveling by air for business, it simply isn't possible to stock much more than a couple of granola bars>


                                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                              I'm not sure why you say it's not possible. I routinely pick up food at my airline terminal to bring with me when I'll be flying during dinner time and due to time differences, won't be arriving home until 1 am or later. I mean it's not ideal, and some foods are better than others (I have actually brought Chinese food with me and have eaten it on the plane, not the best option) but something like a sandwich or salad travels pretty well, IMO.

                                                                                                                                  2. Don't tell them to leave just let them all know quietly the place closes in fifteen minutes or say it's 20 minutes,Start clearing their tables 10 minutes later.Be polite and just let them know what time you close.AS for the boss you didn't say if they are the owner or not?.As for the pay if your working over you better make sure your getting paid.You don't work for free.Not sure what kind of cafe it is but if people ordering food a half hour before closing ask about take out only the last half hour of work,can't hurt to ask.

                                                                                                                                    1. Sunshine it's not right that you say the rest of us working in the real world speaking as if RM does not.Rm is working and should be paid for it.I've been at the same job 30 yrs and have givin up 30 minute lunches and 15 minute breaks I can't count,BUT thats by my choice and I would never expect anyone working under me to do the same.

                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                      1. re: gremlin21

                                                                                                                                        yeah, if you'd read my responses, you'd see that I spoke out quite strongly about working without pay.

                                                                                                                                      2. <Are people that inconsiderate?>

                                                                                                                                        Yes, lots are.

                                                                                                                                        Personally, if I walked in to a restaurant knowing the restaurant closed in 30 minutes, I'd expect the 'soup of the day' to be gone, the coffeepot to be empty and the waitstaff to be exhausted and ready to go home.
                                                                                                                                        That being said, I'd ask the person who looked like they were in charge if it was reasonable for me to be able to order and NOT put the employees out. It would be entirely reasonable for me to assume my choices were limited and the staff was doing what they had to do to in order to close on time.
                                                                                                                                        In this world of 'the world owes me everything' mentality lots of customers can't understand a restaurant that doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate their every need 30 minutes before closing.
                                                                                                                                        As far as a mop goes…I'm pretty happy to see employees keeping things immaculate, not only when it's closing time but during the shift as well. A mop shouldn't be a dirty old rag…there are lots of innocuous ways to clean without disturbing the customer.
                                                                                                                                        Unfortunately, if you're not happy with your job then it's time to look elsewhere. An owner owns the business…if you're unhappy (within the legal limits of what he/she is offering you) then it's time to move on.

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                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                          I agree with all of that. I work in a place that has four different posted closing hours depending on what day it is. Most of the action is on the days it's posted 3 hours later than the earliest close.
                                                                                                                                          Add to that seasonal hours changes.

                                                                                                                                          As a result, people who are usually there on the 'later' days don't check the sign on the door and are usually surprised to see the place empty or cleanup going on. Most will ask what time we close at that point but my response is usually something like "whenever you wish to leave". It makes my personal life a bit unpredictable, but it isn't about me. I'm pretty sure much of this would happen regardless of posted hours. Regardless, unless the owner chooses a different strategy (bar/kitchen close hours) that's the way it is. At no point do I think we'd ever ask anyone to leave.

                                                                                                                                        2. I've seen places that say "open until 11, seating until 10." I think that gives the message that you're expected to leave at 11, not that you can show up at 10:55 and stay as late as you want.

                                                                                                                                          Although I agree with others, if you do have to stay later you absolutely should be paid for it.

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                                                                                                                                          1. re: hsk

                                                                                                                                            and I wish more places would have something like that -- then there's no hurt feelings on either side.

                                                                                                                                          2. Folks, this thread is mainly the same few posters making the same few testy posts over and over again, so at this point, we're going to lock it before it gets worse.