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Are we allowed to share horrible, completely unredeemable experiences here?

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We just had literally the worst experience with RED's Fresh Food on 620 out by the lake. Around 130-ish today, we ordered some food for pick up. On the way to pick up the food, my wife was in an auto accident. (She's safe, thank God.)

However, while I was on the phone with insurance/tow trucks/rental car agenices/etc, I received no less than 3 calls from the folks at Red's inquiring about when we would pick up our order. I told them my wife was in an accident on the way to pick up the order, and we currently had more pressing issues. After hanging up on the final call, I was immediately contacted by the "manager" of Red's, who requested payment for the meal we had not picked up. To be honest, I was baffled. I less-than-politely reaffirmed to him that my wife had just been in a car accident, and I was unconcerned about the order. I hung up and considered the matter closed.

Fast forward to 30 minutes ago: My wife is home, safe and recovering, and we get a knock at the door. It was the manager of Red's, with a bag of now-three-hour-old food, demanding payment. I DID NOT GIVE THIS RESTAURANT MY ADDRESS. REPEAT: I DID NOT GIVE THEM MY ADDRESS. This guy looked up my address based on my phone number and came here, expecting what, I don't know.

I step outside to speak with him. He attempts to hand me the bag, which I do not take. He says "30 dollars". I tell him I'm not going to take delivery of this food, and he can get off my property or things will get ugly, quick. He begins mentioning something about us placing the order. I reiterated that my wife had gotten into a car accident on the way to get the food, and his response was "I don't care." So, he was then advised in no uncertain terms to vacate my property immediately, which he did. He then stood on the street at the top of the driveway attempting to take photos, until I emerged outside again. He then drove off, mentioning that if he didn't receive payment by Monday, he would "call the police". Getting a good laugh out of this last bit, I invited him to do so and offered to call them for him myself.

Needless to say, this shook the wife pretty good. Long story short, as an avid, active Austin foodie I recommend you avoid Red's like you owe it child support.

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  1. Since this happened in Texas, I'm just pleased that no firearms were involved.

    1 Reply
    1. re: mwhitmore

      Maybe there should've been firearms involved.

    2. I'm really sorry about the accident. Good to hear she is OK.Stand your ground ! I'm on your side.

      1 Reply
      1. Sorry, but I have to take Red's side inasmuch as your obligation to pay is concerned, although they could have handled it better. They should have politely explained when they first called that although they understood your predicament and were glad no injury was involved, you would need to pay for the food. They did actually attempt to deliver it to you, which was above and beyond their duty. If you had been en route to a movie or play for which the tickets had already been purchased, they would not refund your money because you were no-shows. The restaurant could have opted to take the loss on the unclaimed order, but they are not obligated to do so.

        7 Replies
        1. re: greygarious

          Respectfully, I spoke with various law-enforcement officers throughout the day today, and they confirmed there has been no criminal activity on my part. There is literally no obligation on my side.

          1. re: shanksound

            yes, you didn't dine and dash, you crashed and never dined.

            greyg - while I get what you're saying, the better PR/marketing move of going above and beyond would have been to (still stalker-creepy) deliver the uneaten food to the house gratis and they would have a couple of customers with a lifelong warm spot for them instead of a justifiably irate person ready to tell anyone willing to listen of the manager's utter lack of compassion.

            1. re: greygarious

              This is insane. The people were in a car accident! Sometimes some level of humanity must supercede profit. Geez, what a sad outlook. And many places will refund your money or let you exchange tickets for another show if you explain the situation. No, they are not obligated to, but many business owners understand things happen and it's a great way to win loyal customers.

              If the restaurant had said something to the effect of, "Gosh we are so sorry to hear that. No problem whatsoever." I would imagine the OP would be much more likely to return, thank them for understanding and recommend them to friends. Heck, that owner could have sealed the deal by bringing over fresh food and offering it for free for their trouble. "We understand you experienced some trauma today, and wanted to help you out a bit. Here's your meal, no charge. Feel better." Imagine that?

              Instead, they ended up with this mess. Terrible. Bad business decision.

              1. re: Jerseygirl111

                I was thinking the same thing. The manager could have driven the food to the house and left it for free, and the OP would be on here writing a whole different tale that would be enormously positive advertising.

              2. re: greygarious

                You think it is a smart move to show up with three-hour old [and bacteria laden food] unannounced and demanding payment? What if he bullied the OP into taking it and they were subsequently poisoned. Would you continue to side with Red? Maybe Red needs to collect payment in advance if he cannot take the one in a thousand no show over the $6-8 he is actually out.

                1. re: greygarious

                  completely disagree. the reaction of the employees and manager borders on the insane. the only obligation the OP had was to take care of his wife (and yes, thank goodness she was ok). the restaurant spent more money than the food was worth in harassing this man and his wife. absolutely incomprehensible behavior. i hope this gets out and everyone avoids them like the plague.

                2. wow, just WOW.

                  I think usually the CH position (from the wrist slaps I've received) is to be sort of neutral about which place gave bad service, but that is so far beyond the pale...

                  if he's not the owner, his boss may find the manager's behavior 'interesting'

                  3 Replies
                  1. re: hill food

                    Found out it WAS the owner. Pretty knuckle-headed, imo.

                    1. re: shanksound

                      not that I make it to your area, but let us know how long this yutz stays in business.

                      1. re: shanksound

                        I live in Dallas, not Austin, and not familiar with the place, so I buddied up to Google and find it is not a chain, but its apparently got enough of a following that it has a Zagat rating.... My take? For an owner/manager to behave that way, the place may well be in deep trouble financially for an owner/manager to go off the deep end and behave that way. NO manager, owner or not, in his right mind would allow such behavior that will give this kind of justified negative publicity to a successful OR failing business! Incomprehensible! But I'll bet he regrets his actions now that he has had time to think about it.

                    2. First, let me say that thankfully your wife is ok.

                      That being said, I'm surprised by your stance. You placed an order for food. Then you had a family emergency. I get that you're not legally obligated to pay for the food, but ethically I don't see how you can justify not paying. Who's supposed to eat the cost? The store owner? Seems pretty unfair to me

                      Now, the owner chasing you down? That's freakish. And I can't support that. But you bailing on that order? I'd be pissed too. But I would've handled it more tactfully as the owner and expressed my concern for the situation but also explaining why I should be paid in a calm fashion,

                      11 Replies
                      1. re: FattyDumplin

                        Thanks for your feedback. I will answer your question with another: Am I expected to take the ethical high road with someone who shows up at my home uninvited and unannounced and then tells me they don't care if my wife was in an accident?

                        I'll argue that creates an ethical paradox all day. He set the moral paradigm when he blew up my phone while I was trying to arrange transportation for my wife and the towing of my vehicle. He then shattered any semblance of civility when he showed up at my home.

                        Why should I be expected to take the high road when dealing with an individual that apparently cannot grasp that concept?

                        1. re: shanksound

                          Because taking the ethical high road is the classy thing to do. In the long run, it is less stressful, because you aren't stewing in resentment. It might have set an example for the restaurant owner.

                          1. re: greygarious

                            The guy showed up on my doorstep asking for $30 for food I hadn't taken delivery of and saying he didn't care that my wife was in an accident. You'll have to excuse me if I disregard your armchair quarterbacking and devil's advocacy.

                            1. re: shanksound

                              I would have jacked him up and threw the $30 in his face like a Wiseguy.

                              1. re: shanksound

                                just be thankful you arent be directed to dig up some long forgotten thread that resembles this same topic.

                                1. re: girloftheworld

                                  girl: That is the classic ploy of some of the elder CH's for sure!

                                2. re: greygarious

                                  stewing in resentment?? shanksound has every right to be pissed that during an emergency situation a restaurant chose to make their business more important than his. i can't even believe someone is trying to tell the OP that they should have behaved in a classier manner after what he went through. judging is not classy.

                                3. re: shanksound

                                  I hear you. In all honesty, I can't say I would have acted better than ou if my wife were in an accident. But I do see why the owner was pissed and for those who say, "so what, the owner's only out x dollars", I'm not that free with other people's money. Feels like its just an unfortunate situation that spiraled out of control...

                                4. re: FattyDumplin

                                  In the owners defense, they do close at 3:00pm. The customer would not have been able to pick up the order after 3:30 or so.

                                  Perhaps if the delivery person could have been a little more gracious at the time of delivery.... nah - I don't think that would have helped for the customer.

                                  -sw

                                  1. re: FattyDumplin

                                    I think the $6-8 the business owner lost is hardly worth the loss of goodwill he rightly earned over the incident by being an over-the-top asshole. I could even accept him telling the OP he could no longer order takeout, but to not understand the impossibility of picking up the food due to an accident beyond the customer's control is another thing. Subsequently showing up unannounced three hours later with food that most likely was bacteria-laden and unsafe to eat and demanding payment is beyond the pale. Luckily, a person with this set of decision-making skills generally does not survive long in the food-service industry.

                                  2. It's thirty dollars. Really, business owner. How much is this going to cost you for a non return customer for life ?

                                    1. Idiiocy. You take care of the folks that would buy your product. They crash on the way? take care of them. what a bunch of idiots.

                                      1. I imagine that restaurants that do take-out are accustomed to hearing all kinds of outlandish claims from customers as to why they no longer want the food that they ordered and was cooked for them. If you ordered it, you are responsible for the cost of cooking it for you, regardless of the circumstances, even if the manager is a jerk.

                                        The salient facts are: you ordered food, the restaurant cooked it for you and can't sell it to anyone else.

                                        Peripheral facts are: your wife was in a fender-bender, and the kooky restaurant manager showed up at your house. These are minor details that don't relieve you of the necessity of paying for what you ordered.

                                        Is the manager guilty of bad business practices? For sure.

                                        Are you trying to get out of a contract? Also, for sure.

                                        17 Replies
                                        1. re: pikawicca

                                          Impossibility of performance comes to mind ... In addition, part of the contract on the merchant's side is making food fresh and hot to be packaged for pick-up [and not trying to fulfill his end of the contract by deciding to deliver three-hour old, bacteria laden food].

                                          1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                            No. The contract is to pick up the food as ordered. The OP failed to meet his obligation to pick up in a timely fashion. The attempt to deliver later is irrelevant.

                                            1. re: pikawicca

                                              I will respectfully disagree. Inability to show up due to a car accident severe enough to immobilize one's vehicle would serve as "impossibility of performance" and a ground for rescission of the contract.

                                              1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                The OP was totally able to show up. His wife was not. And there are always taxis.

                                                1. re: pikawicca

                                                  Assumption of the risk is on the merchant ... to avoid it, he either needs to charge for the food when it is ordered or alternatively deliver it hot and fresh in exchange for payment. This is the cost of doing take-out/pick-up business IMHO.

                                                  1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                    So, maybe take-out/pick-up orders should cost about 50% more than menu prices because of no-shows and stiffs?

                                                    1. re: Veggo

                                                      Veggo: The actual reality is take-out orders are more profitable due to lower labor costs [and frees up restaurant "real estate"] and I think a good business practice is eat the occasional no-show armed with a very good reason for being unable to pay for the food. I think it is a borderline criminal act to sell three-plus hour old food though ....

                                                      1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                        I don't disagree about the 3 hour food or the house call. I think both parties share blame that made this incident newsworthy.

                                                  2. re: pikawicca

                                                    seriously, you're suggesting that the OP should have left his wife after her accident and taken a taxi to go pick up food?

                                                  3. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                    The restaurant "performed" , the customer did not. The restaurant should take in in the shorts every time there is a fender bender? Not relevant, but what if wifey caused the accident?

                                                    1. re: Veggo

                                                      Then she has to pick up the meal tab for the other driver as well.

                                                      1. re: Veggo

                                                        This alleged contract is unilateral?

                                                        1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                          Bilateral. One party performed, the other did not.

                                                          1. re: Veggo

                                                            Legal excuse: Inability to perform by buyer. Case closed, your honor!

                                                            P.S. Had both died, I could see this asshole restaurateur trying to collect at the funeral.

                                                            1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                              That is only true and unenforceable with personal service contracts, which this was not. I recommend a refresher on contract law. Example: you advance a roofer $500 to repair your roof, and he gets a hangnail and claims "inability to perform". You OK with that?

                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                Texas case law recognizes objective impossibility as a contractual defense outside of employment contracts.

                                                        2. re: Veggo

                                                          Haha, take it in the shorts...

                                                2. I think one should differentiate between what a person *can* do (either legally or physically) and what a person *should* do.

                                                  Everyone who says the owner is well within his right to do what he did to the OP is absolutely correct. Legalese aside, he absolutely was well within his rights to ask for payment on an order placed.

                                                  But does that necessarily mean the owner should have done what he did? Probably not.

                                                  Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you always should.

                                                  I can get up in a crowded movie theater and yell, "I just farted!" but it doesn't (always?) mean I should.

                                                  5 Replies
                                                  1. re: ipsedixit

                                                    "I can get up in a crowded movie theater and yell, "I just farted!" but it doesn't (always?) mean I should."

                                                    I think it means you never should...

                                                    Annnnnyway... I think the Mannager may have had one too many no-shows and the OP was the Straw. Is it going to result in a truely epic Chic FIlet scandal? I doubt it. Will Reds ask for a credit card number if I call for take out next week...more than likely.

                                                    1. re: girloftheworld

                                                      asking for a CC # and charging at time of order is quite fair. stalking someone, at their undisclosed home, at the end of a stressful night is just weird.

                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                        fair or not it would still suck and be highly unsympathetic to one of its customers. humanity and decency should come into play at some point.

                                                        1. re: mariacarmen

                                                          I absolutely agree and it would have been such an easy customer gesture that can't be evaluated in simple money.

                                                    2. re: ipsedixit

                                                      It may reduce the likelihood of being pickpocketed on a crowded subway.
                                                      And I think it is gentlemanly of you to give others fair warning before the tsunami arrives....

                                                    3. This story was on the news tonight. I guess OP posted on facebook and the story's gone viral.

                                                      9 Replies
                                                      1. re: Rptrane

                                                        Well that worked out. Your business is only as strong as your reputation.

                                                        1. re: emglow101

                                                          The owner woman didn't seem contrite at all. She was still mad at the OP. Said the OP threatened to shoot the person who brought the food to the house.
                                                          This was a huge miscalculation on their part. $30 is not worth a businesses reputation.

                                                          1. re: Rptrane

                                                            Some small business owners reach their breaking point after untold abuse from customers. I learned a good lesson about 30 years ago, when I reserved on a small regional airline, from Atlantic City to New Haven. I decided to stay longer and I didn't cancel my reservation. I got an angry call later, from the owner of the airline. He could have re-sold that seat on that small plane. I listened with complete sympathy and guilt. He was exactly right, I had been exactly wrong. I sent him the air fare and I learned a life-long lesson.

                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                              Except you "voluntarily" chose not to honor your reservation ... big difference.

                                                              1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                I do not distinguish as you do my responsibility, as to whether it came about voluntarily or accidentally. So be it.

                                                                1. re: Veggo

                                                                  Big difference IMHO. I think this is why most airlines make you buy the ticket before securing one's reservation.

                                                                  1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                    To my good fortune I have not missed a flight because of my ground travel delays, a few were close. I'm sure a few wrecks on the Cross-Bronx Expressway have cost some travelers at LaGuardia.
                                                                    My experience was, as I said, about 30 years ago, long before even restaurants began asking for credit card reservations.
                                                                    We'll agree to disagree about the big difference.

                                                          1. re: hlk

                                                            Interesting to read the story here and then watch the news story.

                                                            Ie. The element of the story here about how things could get ugly and then in the news story refuting the gun claim and saying that his wife was in an accident and we would settle up later.

                                                        2. it skeeves me out that they found your address and went to your house.

                                                          also, does this remind anyone of the raymond carver story (which was turned into the robert altman movie short cuts)?

                                                          1 Reply
                                                          1. re: dinaofdoom

                                                            Until I saw the link to the TV news reports I was thinking this was some kind of goof inspired by the Carver story (originally In the Bath , later rewritten as A Small, Good Thing - should anyone be curious). Unfortunately I was wrong. Yikes. So sorry for your awful experience.

                                                          2. I seriously thought this was a joke when I first read it. I was following along and then I got to the part where they showed up at your house, and I thought, nah, this has to be fake. Then I read all the replies and realized it wasn't. Totally creepy and inexcusable, not to mention extremely rude and insensitive given what you had just gone through. I'm not sure what is most typically protocol for restaurants when a take out order isn't picked up, but I'm doubting what they did is it. Hell, even if your wife hadn't been in an accident and you had just told the guy to fuck off and didn't want your order anymore, showing up at your house still would not have been appropriate, IMO.

                                                            I assume like some others, that restaurants are used to some lost take out orders, and just write it off as part of the business. The same way they do when an order gets screwed up and they have to remake it. I used to work take out at a sit down chain restaurant in high school, and I don't recall too many orders not getting picked up. So little that I really don't even remember one, but I have to assume it happened. This isn't to say that I think it's right to purposefully not pick up your order, but sheesh, this shouldn't ever be the result of that.

                                                            Very unbelievable on the restaurant's part.

                                                            1. I must be a pushover; I would have apologized and allowed them to charge my credit card on the first call.

                                                              1. To everyone who has told the OP that he should have paid for the take-out order, let me ask you this. Honest question here. Have you guys never walked into a restaurant, been seated, ordered off the menu, had your order taken back to the kitchen, and then left before receiving your order, for whatever reason? Either something went badly with the restaurant -- they screwed up your apps/drinks, the staff was inexcusably rude, the facility was unsanitary, etc -- or you got some emergency phone call that suddenly called you away before your meal arrived. Do you pay in these situations? If not, how is this any different than what the OP did? In both cases, food has been prepared but not consumed and cannot be given to another patron so the restaurant must eat the cost. But I hear about people who walk into restaurants, place orders, have a bad experience in the first 10-20 minutes, pay for their drinks but not their meals (which have not been delivered but have undoubtedly been started by the kitchen), and then walk out, all the time, and those situations seem to be perfectly acceptable, yet the OP's, which involved a car accident, was not.

                                                                7 Replies
                                                                1. re: Maggiethecat

                                                                  Two completely different scenarios. I have, in fact, never walked out of a restaurant after my order has been taken, only when, after being seated, I've been waiting for 15-20 minutes without a server appearing to take the order. However, I support the idea of leaving after paying only for what's been drunk or eaten when the restaurant has screwed up in some way, as you have described. In that case, it's the restaurant that has caused the problem. If you are called away, that's on you, and you pay. If you can wait long enough for them to pack your order to go, fine. If not, you still pay.

                                                                  1. re: Maggiethecat

                                                                    Yes. Bad experience due to restaurant snafu? I'm letting the manager know and walking out without paying. Personal / work emergency? I'm paying for whatever's been made. Why should a restaurant foot the bill for my personal emergency?

                                                                    1. re: FattyDumplin

                                                                      it's not to say that the OP would not at some point have paid for the food his wife ordered. if the restaurant had acted decently he might have gone back later, well after the situation, and said sorry, accident, here's what we owe for the food we didn't get to pick up. it seemed they wanted to be repeat customers, and if the restaurant had not acted so horribly, i'm betting the OP would have paid up.

                                                                      1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                        not to say that the OP would at some point have paid for the food either. Only the OP can say that...

                                                                        To be clear, I'm not defending the restaurant either. What they did is way over the line of what is acceptable.

                                                                        At the same time, putting myself in each party's shoes, I can be understanding of the choices that were made. As the OP, I probably wouldn't have been thinking "ooh, gotta call the restaurant" either given the situation. As the restaurant, I can understand the concern given how thin margins are.

                                                                        1. re: FattyDumplin

                                                                          Good point. The business owner would have been better served calling a day or two later, making a polite case for the loss, and proffering to collect on the portion of the bill that covered his actual loss.

                                                                          1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                            that would have been a completely different story. the restaurant's concerns aren't negligible, but their egregious (yes, coming to someone's private home is egregious) behavior, for me, negated any concern the OP needed to display at such a time.

                                                                    2. re: Maggiethecat

                                                                      Absolutely not.

                                                                      There are times where I wish I hadn't ordered yet so I could walk out, but I would never, ever place an order and then not pay for it.

                                                                    3. This is so over-the-top weird that I don't think it matters whether you paid or did not pay for your order. What matters is that the owner looked up your address and came to your house, demanding payment. This makes him a stalker and a creep. I would be very nervous if someone like that knew where I lived.

                                                                      1. At least a news report allows all parties to speak for themselves. I understand a car accident can unravel the rest of your day and be scary as hell; even lead to other unexpected fallout but honestly I don't think anyone involved handled the situation well.

                                                                        The story being reported might actually help the restaurant owner and the OP cool down a bit in the light of day. Anger, assault with a food sack, mention of guns? What the heck is going on there? Showing up at a customers home during your hours of operation to hunt down payment? What?? Hot mess all the way around.

                                                                        I gotta ask, why did you enlist social media and the news in your restaurant take out order/car accident?

                                                                        Was this OP left on the Austin board because the restaurant was named? Most of these scenarios wind up on NAF or Food Media & News, right?

                                                                        1. According to reviews elsewhere the bad behavior of the owner and his staff appear to be malignant. Stalking in this incident sure takes the cake. Suffice to say I won't eat here except perhaps to go see what the shit show is all about face to face and be entertained. After kayaking town lake and getting skunked on a few bass, I can easily be in a surly and hungry enough mood to check this insane dude out. Heck, maybe I'll mention the ordeal (after my food arrives).

                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                          1. re: slowcoooked

                                                                            Heck with the bass on Town lake - I used to do kayak rolls for beers there and scored plenty!

                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                              I guess all this leaves open the question, is the food passable there anyway?

                                                                          2. "gone viral"? Whatever that means, but I hear the newscasters show a clip and claim it has "gv". Isn't there a loose definition of "gv" somewhere?

                                                                            Nonetheless, the OP has helped it along. I notice he has posted on Trip Advisor also. I would be interested in knowing where else he has posted his unfortunate event.

                                                                            Not condemning him, I would have done the same.

                                                                            Like I told a guy at the tile store that sort of cheated us, in 5 minutes I can notify around 5000 (my guess) people in Austin how you have treated us.

                                                                            Hooray for the 'net. I know it has it bad areas but being able to communicate so widely and freely helps keep the world spinning on its proper axis.

                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                            1. re: singlemalt

                                                                              The working definition of which seems to be "around me, of course".

                                                                              1. re: singlemalt

                                                                                I understand that in a distressing situation everyone has their stand to take. But I'm not so convinced that airing ones personal issues is always the best way to handle things. The last time I was in a fender bender we settled things just fine without being on national tv or stirring up the Net in order to feel satisfied. Being on tv doesn't make your crisis more or less important to you does it?

                                                                                I'm not insensitive to what the couple went through and how the business handled itself but I'm not a fan of public outcry when an incident involved four people (& btw, what happened to the other car in the accident?) not the nation. There is still the matter of the other driver in the accident. How did they make out?

                                                                              2. Seems to me, there's a convention when you order take-out: you order, the restaurant prepares the food, you pay and take the food. Stuff happens: you order the food, get mugged of have a flat tire en route to pick-up, so can't complete the transaction. However, that's your loss and you need to pay up. There is no rational or moral reason for demanding that the restaurant eat the cost of your misfortune. They have misfortunes of their own.

                                                                                25 Replies
                                                                                1. re: pikawicca

                                                                                  Ever sent food back improperly prepared? I think most restaurants run properly have to plan for an occasional loss like an overcooked steak or a person unable to pick up take out food due to reasons beyond his or her control.

                                                                                  1. re: pikawicca

                                                                                    Nope. Restauranteurs do not come to your home and force you to pay for food. There is a cost to doing any business and as an owner you do your best to minimize that cost but that's all you can do. Minimizing does not include stalking your customers at their home and shaking them down for their order. This is not a case where teenagers are prank ordering food and not picking it up. The owner spoke to the OP, and knew what happened. Sometimes you have to take one for the team. The owner had another option, call the police, explain what happened, see what they advise. The police probably would've told them to give it up.

                                                                                    1. re: Jerseygirl111

                                                                                      ok- not food but kid of the same thing-
                                                                                      My mom bought me a suit for a thing I was doing at an exclusive kids shop we took it home and showed it to the lady helping me (saturday) she said it wouldnt work . Shop was closed on Sunday we got a call that my Mermer died that night we left town when we got back a few more days passed and my mom took the suit back it was three days past the refund exchange period... she explained what had happened and just asked for store credit...while this was going on I had already selected enough clothes to cover the cost of the suit plus ..She snipply said to my mom " Everyone has problems" and turned around and walked away waving her hand dismisvily... mom instructed me to drop the clothes I had on the floor...we found a different boutique to shop in over the next year we spent a lot of money in there a lot ... the best part is we told the lady who owned the store...and she saw the other lady at market and she said she had lovely "pretty woman moment" as she said " Big mistake Huge"

                                                                                      1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                        I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad this thread reflects some balance. Did anyone else hear the owner's wife say that the OP threatened the restaurant owner with a gun on the news piece (linked above)? Am I the only person who believes the mere mention of a gun changes the conversation? That someone watching the news at home shouldn't take this example as the best way to handle a difficult, unexpected encounter? Because, while I certainly feel for the incident (having your wife in a car accident on the way to pick up food) that took place, and the shock of having a store owner show up at your door to now deliver your food, expecting full payment, I cannot understand threatening anyone with a gun over it. And if the news reports are incorrect and reported that a gun was mentioned, they should be held accountable for escalating this story.

                                                                                        Eye for an eye can leave good people in some really seriously bad irreversible consequences.

                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                          Do we know he did threaten with a gun? I mean this is Texas...not exactly the kind of thing someone is embarassed to admit or likely to omit. .. " I wuz mad az heeeeellllll this fuck showed at myyyyy house when I didnt evvven give him my adress and I told him if he didnt get of my property he wuz gonna be talkin to my gun"
                                                                                          Just saying it not an unreasonable thing for most Texas men to say. Why would he ommit it? I am more likely to believe the restraunt added it later.

                                                                                          1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                            The news report (video above) reported the story while the OP was on the telephone being interviewed and the owners wife mentioned the gun on camera. And, it's all any of us know about this story. The restaurant owners wouldn't be permitted on CH and the other driver in the accident with the wife hasn't commented. The OP has not addressed what the news reported. And fwiw, I don't really think where this incident took place should mean anything. It's a universal problem to get in a car accident on your way to anywhere.

                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                              It is absolutely relevant where this took place. Texas, Florida, are much more a gun crazy than here in NJ. It doesn't surprise me in the least.

                                                                                              1. re: Jerseygirl111

                                                                                                I don't know if that's true or perceptions but I don't believe even the threat of violence was warranted in this scenario.

                                                                                                I am and will probably always be surprised by how people will react in stressful situations no matter who they are or where they hail from. We all make choices. I wouldn't want a moment in time to define who I am especially over a take out food order that was derailed by a car accident.

                                                                                            2. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                              I've lived in Texas most of my life, Dallas, Houston and Austin for the past 20 years. I think this stereotype is completely off. Most Texas men... I think not.

                                                                                              1. re: Rene

                                                                                                Not meaning to sterotype just tring to point out the state is known for a culture that would not be horrifide or shocked if such a thing was said by a man with a his wife hurt inside on the couch...he would likely be understood... so in my opinion I would think in his orginal rant or in his personal facebook post he would have had no qualms about saying...even braging about firearms getting involved if needed..... it is not completly off sad to say

                                                                                                1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                  See now my comfort level goes like this. THIS individual "may" (since it has not been confirmed by him) have made that decision not the entire city of Austin. HE takes responsibility (or not) for how he handled himself under dire circumstances. That doesn't mean his neighbor, his community or even a member of his family 'just because' he lives in a state stereotyped as gun toting. What's sadder (to me) is the perception.

                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                    Soooo dont you think that the same is happening with the owners wife saying he threatened me with a gun assuming everyone would take her word for it.... my point is... if he did I think it would have been in the original story..I dont think I am explaining myself verywell...

                                                                                                    1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                      No I follow you. I'm not able to base anything directly from the owner or his wife with the exception of what she actually said to a new reporter. I don't know if we'll ever know. And, don't get me wrong, the owner bears responsibility too. I don't understand his coming to the house the way the OP explained it here or by phone interview to the reporter. The entire incident is awfully unfortunate. We also haven't heard about the other driver in the accident from the OP or the news. We don't have all the facts.

                                                                                                      How can we take one word over another without witnessing the incident? That's why I said earlier, I'm glad this thread shows balance. But mentioning guns or the threat of violence, have no place in this set of circumstances.

                                                                                                      1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                        I'm sure if anyone was waving a gun around the police would have been summoned. And threatening someone with firearm violence even with no firearm present is a crime. Ask anyone with a CCL.(concealed carry licence)

                                                                                                        1. re: ericthered

                                                                                                          What about when someone publicly accuses you of threatening them with a gun, as the restaurant poster did?

                                                                                                          If that were to happen to me, I don't think I would sit still until a retraction was publicly posted ( assuming I did not make the threat)

                                                                                                    2. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                      Threatening people with guns in and around ones home is not a culture of this state in particular. A story just today about a man in CA who put a gun in the face of a little girl going door to door selling cookies.

                                                                                                      http://www.statesman.com/news/news/na...

                                                                                                      Not a Texas thing by any stretch.

                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                    "I cannot understand threatening anyone with a gun over it."
                                                                                                    Of course you can't. You are a rational, reasonable person. But this is one of the reasons guns are so dangerous when someone loses their temper they are not thinking clearly.

                                                                                                      1. re: Jerseygirl111

                                                                                                        The only one that ever mentioned a gun was the owner. This is why I do not find her credible.

                                                                                                        1. re: ericthered

                                                                                                          Then the owner's wife lied on national television during the interview and the OP who was also live on the phone did not counter with "no that's not true" or "I didn't say that" so I don't know what to find credible in this local story. If someone lied about my statements you can bet I would have made sure the statement was corrected.

                                                                                                          If the OP returns to this thread, maybe he can shed light on it.

                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                            With respect to everyone, we can probably just kill this debate right now....as it will probably go south on us. I am not responding to anyone in particular, but, it is painfully apparent to me that the cookie and the brownie are the root of the problem here.

                                                                                                            1. re: rudeboy

                                                                                                              Cookie and the brownie? I have never heard that expression before.

                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                Original reciept had a cookie and a brownie, I think. No double entendre there.

                                                                                                        2. re: Jerseygirl111

                                                                                                          I worry about the flying monkeys, to hell with the gun.

                                                                                                2. Have y'all seen their website? They've gone out of business.
                                                                                                  http://www.redsfresh.com/

                                                                                                  37 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: onrushpam

                                                                                                    Wow. Thank you for updating the thread.

                                                                                                    Like I said, an eye for an eye can leave good people in some really seriously bad irreversible consequences.

                                                                                                    I would never use or participate in FB in this manner. Some scary shit out there.

                                                                                                    1. re: onrushpam

                                                                                                      As Red said, no winners in this one. A sad ending. As many of you know, the low level of Lake Travis for some years has been devastating to the water sport industry there, restaurants included.

                                                                                                      1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                        Unfortunately, it happens when you tie your business to circumstances beyond your control. Just ask an American Farmer or Grower in California [or Texas] at present .... But, looking at several sites discussing Red's food and service, it appears that they had "problems" for a long time.

                                                                                                        1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                          Is this how you still see the owner now that this set of circumstances closed this business entirely? When you said:

                                                                                                          Had both died, I could see this asshole restaurateur trying to collect at the funeral.

                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                            Yes, I do. Zero business sense. And I don't buy his "after the fact" reasonableness since he was already underwater before this fateful day.

                                                                                                            1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                              Underwater....on a lake that is drying up. Curious how some terms come about.

                                                                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                Sorry, it is a common term used where I grew up to describe a failing business ... As in drowning in debt i presume, although the biggest problem in the State where I grew up in is crops being flooded more often than drought conditions.

                                                                                                            2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                              I can't speak for the owners or the OP. The OP has only posted 4 times on CH. But the amount of time spent sharing his incident with the online community had an impact on Red's closing and on the online community that piled on to this story. Thankfully no one died...except the business, huh.

                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                Red's didn't close because of this incident. Re-read the letter on his website and past reviews that concern both the quality of his food and service and I think it is reasonable to believe there were many factors leading to this restaurant's demise [and not just this crazy incident described hereinabove]. With that being said, life is a journey and maybe he can find a winning formula down the road ... and maybe the OP will too.

                                                                                                            3. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                              The Lake Travis water level has been low for years. A friend of mine who has a house on the lake is selling after years of waiting. His boat dock was hundreds of feet from the water's edge, and he had to rent a slip at a marina a considerable distance away.
                                                                                                              I agree nature is a powerful force, and some people get dealt deuces. As I said above in this thread, some people are pushed to their breaking point.

                                                                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                It will take a lot of rain over a sustained amount of time to bounce back .... I lived for 13 years about 200 miles West of Austin and it has been so dry there that one of two lakes in the community completely dried up.

                                                                                                                1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                                  The low water level of Lake Mead and the outlook for SoCal agriculture is frightening. It is beyond anyone's experience.

                                                                                                                  1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                                    According the experts, if it rained or snowed twice a week til May in CA, it wouldn't make a big difference. Studies are showing that this is the worst drought in 500 years and this one could last 100 years plus or minus. From a food and water standpoint, we have far bigger things to worry about than recreation, dining or otherwise.

                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                      This area being barren will really impact our fresh produce and other agricultural commodities normally grown there ....

                                                                                                                      1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                                                        Definitely. We're talking about farmers and ranchers, even this year, not having water. And even drinking water is very close to being affected.

                                                                                                            4. re: onrushpam

                                                                                                              I refuse to believe that this alone killed their business. Look the comments here run about 50/50. I think their business must have been in the tank for a while. As evidence I present the fact that the owner had time to go bother someone at their home about $30. That doesn't suggest a successful restaurant to me.
                                                                                                              Using the same Ayn Rand logic applied throughout this thread by some folks the market has spoken.
                                                                                                              Personally I'm sorry they closed their business but they handled this wrong.

                                                                                                              1. re: Rptrane

                                                                                                                I agree that this thread did run 50/50 and the discussion was interesting. But, I'll always wonder this: if the OP hadn't taken his wife's car accident and cancelled order experience to the Net (FB, CH, the local press) would the restaurant have closed so soon AFTER the incident occurred. For me, the two will be forever linked because the OP went to great lengths to make his accident and run in with the owner public. We'll never know.

                                                                                                                I can't imagine being a business owner rung out by nameless, faceless people hellbent on taking one very unfortunate incident and making it their mission to slam you. The owners said in their open letter that people were outraged to such a degree as to further threaten them. By sharing his story, the OP created that onslaught.

                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                  You know if the business was in the tank anyway, this one incident of a customer not paying could have been the straw that sent the owner over the edge.
                                                                                                                  Maybe if business was good and the restaurant wasn't going under, the owner wouldn't have overreacted so much to a lost $30 ticket.
                                                                                                                  But, we'll never know, i guess.

                                                                                                                  1. re: TroyTempest

                                                                                                                    TroyT, I guess there continues to be several ways to look at this.

                                                                                                                    Maybe if the owners hadn't been threatened by the publics need to react, an audience without any personal involvement, the situation could have been handled privately btwn the actual people involved.

                                                                                                                    But we agree on this, we'll never know.

                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                      "Our landlord has helped us before, but said NO to help in January 2014, even though he had for January 2012 and 2013".

                                                                                                                      I wonder how much this had to do with them having to close the doors. Who knows..

                                                                                                                      1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                        The landlord had a vested interest in the success of that tenant or any subsequent one. At some point as a landlord you feel you must trade what you have for whatever is behind door #2, which is usually an unproven new tenant in your single purpose building.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                          Yep, that's what I was thinking.

                                                                                                                        2. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                          Who knows is right, miss b. Water cooler spectating doesn't equate to having the facts. I don't have any idea what actually happened.

                                                                                                                          But, do you think most business people or individuals in the midst of stress want to be judged on their worst day? Or better yet, have a small segment of the online world turn a bad situation into a larger drama? Or, have to defend themselves on the local news?

                                                                                                                          FB and the like can be cruel sport. I'm not a fan. I looked to my own family and remind them (once again) be careful out there...

                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                            HillJ, that's the reason why I will never participate on FB, as a fox or a hound.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                              There are much healthier ways to get one's kicks out of life, V. You couldn't pay me to join FB or Twitter. But plenty of the folks in my circle (family, friends, colleagues) believe these communities bring people together...yeah...they sure do!

                                                                                                                              It's a new day..time to make the baklava!

                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                HillJ, I'm on FB and have never seen anything like what has been described here. I'm sure it happens but I wonder how often. We generally discuss politics :), then food, then art and music, our kids and grandkids, travel, etc. I rarely even see cross words exchanged. Far 'kinder' than CH. I promise.

                                                                                                                                1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                  I'm sure that's true. I wasn't referring to CH anyway. I experience FAR more balance of opinion on CH. But I won't be joining FB anytime soon :)

                                                                                                                                  Don't get me wrong, c o, I'm glad your FB mileage is different.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                    Far more balance than what other forum, HJ? I'm just on CH and FB and FB is far more 'balanced'.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                      Well that's interesting now isn't it. My FB experience is standing over the shoulder of a family member and reading their page. Or reading businesses pages that are not locked. What I've seen of the FB & Twitter pages of the younger people in my family I don't have the patience for.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                        I suspect when people have 100s of "friends," the mileage varies :) None of my "friends" are younger than probably 35 and that may make a difference.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                          Except that the basis of this OP (imvho) wasn't demonstrating a great day in social networks. For me, it demonstrated something far more damaging. And it gives me far greater comfort to know (according to avid FB users) it's not typical usage.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                            And I agree with that. If I have time later, I may start a thread about CHs that we have relationships with on other social media.

                                                                                                                                2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                  this social forum, like any other social forum, like FB, can get as nasty and ugly as any other social forum, and why? because human beings are using it. the difference here is Chowhound is moderated to the hilt, and people who don't behave here are scolded, warned, suspended, and ultimately banned from posting, as many of you well know. there are not such strict strictures on FB. but you can get "unfriended" and even "blocked" pretty quick if you can't manage to be a civil, pleasant poster. it's silly to blame FB or FB users for this incident. and I, like others, highly doubt that this one incident pushed that business over the edge, nor do i believe that the incident was an isolated one. people don't behave that way unless that's the way they normally behave. and that's not a recipe for success. i'm not happy that the business went under, but i'm certainly not going to blame the OP, even a little. he had a right to air a grievance. if people actually followed his lead and boycotted the business based on social media posts, those are some highly suggestible people, who don't know how to think for themselves.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                    mariac, we'll never know what happened. I didn't blame FB, I pointed to the OP and how he dealt with his private matter. Don't we each respond to the things we read about based on our own experience and/or comfort level?

                                                                                                                                    If a member of my family had been in the exact set of circumstances (car accident en route to a food order) I can promise you I wouldn't have shared it in great detail on FB, CH or any other online community for the sole purpose of recounting how the restaurant responded. The OP pretty much sought out comrades in arms naming the restaurant and telling people to never go there. How much more confrontational could he be? Then took his story to the local news. So, no FB didn't come looking for the OP-he used social networking to voice his anger. His right to air a grievance had local fallout.

                                                                                                                                    What can I tell you. My focus would have been entirely on dealing with the situation privately, no matter how upset I was. There was no self control in this entire scenario; start to finish, OP or owner of Red's.

                                                                                                                                    You may not share my opinion, but that's what I gave, my opinion. Which according to everyone contributing to this thread we're entitled to.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                      I agree that this whole situation is very unfortunate all the way around. I doubt that the OP has fared well in the wake of the media firestorm as well and possibly wishes he had handled things differently than he did.

                                                                                                                                      My two cents worth on the FB, Yelp, etc. aspect of this is that those are just communication tools and platforms. They are neither bad nor good, just like print media, television, radio, etc. In this case, the OP used local media in addition to social media. He was clearly pissed and wanted to get maximum exposure. 30 years ago it might have been handled by print and local media, picketing, petitions, etc. so I don't see the media tools as the problem at all.

                                                                                                                                      I get that social media is extremely powerful due to the quick and wide hit it can have but I also think that many readers/users are smart enough to know that there is always more than one side to a story, just like with print media, etc. Sounds like this business was going under sooner or later and this media firestorm pushed it along.

                                                                                                                                      I know there are a lot of negative social media experiences, but for the most part, my own experiences have been very positive. I am a huge FB fan. I don't tweet...too old/set in my ways with limited time to devote to social media. I will say that FB has been an enormous positive in my life and I started out negative to neutral. I've reconnected with people from my past that I care about, I stay connected and up to date on family and friends in a way that I could never do with the phone and email. One key to my enjoyment is that I skim over stuff that makes me a little nuts (just like on CH), I don't engage in political debates, and I don't judge others. I only post when I have something nice to say and want to share or connect with others. Thankfully, I am FB "friends" with many who feel and behave the same way I do. And the others, I ignore.

                                                                                                                              2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                HillJ ~ I don't like the way this whole thing went down any more than you do ok. But I really don't want to get started on that. Have a nice day:-)

                                                                                                                  2. Can't wait to hear what happens when the car insurance companies get involved. Who's the jerk that sideswiped your wife? And was she at fault?

                                                                                                                    Sure, bad stuff happens to all of us, but what makes you think the restaurant should pay for your bad day and take a loss? I'm not buying your poor me story one iota.

                                                                                                                    1. I am truly amazed at some of the posts and replies on this subject. Most seem to show the direction that our country seems to be heading. It's not Red's problem that the wife got side-swiped. Judging by the "film at 11:00" nobody was hurt in this fender-bender. Maybe a little mental anguish. You ordered the food---so pay for the food!!! What has happened to personal responsibility. The perfect scenario would have been for you to attempt payment for the food Red's to comp it for your mental anguish. But that's their choice. You ordered it--they cooked it---so pay for it!!! Sorry 'bout the wife--but you made a verbal contract with the restaurant. They kept their end of the deal. Did you??? Coming to your house is a totally different story----but I'd be willing to bet if you'd have called them and paid with a CC---there would be a different ending to this story.

                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                      1. re: Bronco Billy

                                                                                                                        Billy - that's what I was getting at upstream, my policy for phone orders would be that db/cc #'s are needed and charges will be made with or without collection of the food.

                                                                                                                      2. I am surprised when people embark upon vendettas in response to perceived insult/unjust treatment from people they don't know, especially if both parties live/operate in proximity to one another. Whether or not a gun threat was involved in this case, you never know when someone may go over the edge. Road rage, a coup-de-grace targetting an already-teetering business, general rudeness....under the wrong circumstances, any one of these can be enough to trigger violence or other serious repercussions.

                                                                                                                        Perhaps if the OP had counted to ten before taking keyboard revenge upon Red's, he would have calmed down. Same goes for the business owners. We'll probably never know if in retrospect, the OP regrets his role in destroying Red's and putting its staff out of their jobs, but he should count himself lucky that he and his family have not been targeted for payback (pun fully intended).

                                                                                                                        1. What a sad no-win sequence of events. And, I'm in the position to speak on both sides. I spent six years working in a small family-owned restaurant that eventually failed, and I watched the executive chef and main owner -- one of the sweetest, kindest men I've ever had the fortune of reporting to -- utterly be driven to madness by the crushing pressure of trying to save his business. On the other side, I've had my own personal online battles regarding terrible service.

                                                                                                                          Given the recent announcements that they have closed (http://www.redsfresh.com/) and what it states, I have a much better understanding of what might have occurred. Not sure of many of you have ever worked at a business that is days from closing but, yes, the insanity of tracking a customer down at their home and demanding 30 dollars is actually sadly understandable. Totally unacceptable, but man, you do some crazy stuff when you're broke.

                                                                                                                          As for OP? You entered into a basic contract when you placed the order, as the business devoted employee time, equipment costs and product cost to prepare your order for pick-up. While there are no formal laws regarding failure (and liability) to honor pick-up orders, there certainly is a social contract in place in our society that should compel you to assume partial responsibility. At the least you owed the business coverage of product costs and time. And yes, its absolutely unfortunate that a family member was involved in an accident that diverted your time and attention, but that simply does not release you from a basic financial obligation that you made to a company. And while reprehensible, there is no legal standing for using a poor response from them to somehow justify failing to fulfill your obligation.

                                                                                                                          As for the business? Any restaurant that offers pick-up service should have built the occasional cost of no-shows into the entire business model and cost structure. And, it should have built into its entire order policy to charge a reasonable percentage to cover said costs when these occur. Alternate to that, there should have been conditions of order acceptance, clearly communicated to the customer, and agreed upon between both parties before committing the order.

                                                                                                                          As for the rest of the claims, really, it's a lot of he said/she said drama that no one but those two will ever know the truth of. People say crazy stuff under duress....you have a business that's dealing with looming closure and an OP that's just freaked out that a business has literally stalked him to his front door and demanded payment for hours-old food. To accept either sides interpretation is literally impossible, given the charged emotions on both sides.

                                                                                                                          If there's any salvation in this, its that businesses and customers alike might draw from watching this whole ugly debacle and learn from it.

                                                                                                                          1. Funny that this thread has all the trappings of Facebook and Twitter.

                                                                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                                                                            1. re: rudeboy

                                                                                                                              Point taken. But had it not been for the OP posting on CH, I wouldn't have known about this story at all. I was surprised that CH moderation allowed the restaurant to be named and that this thread didn't wind up on NAF board.

                                                                                                                              1. re: rudeboy

                                                                                                                                The same thread in fact played out almost identically when the OP posted it on his Facebook feed.

                                                                                                                              2. After reading through this, including the owner's comments on the website link -- with their account of restaurant employees getting obscene and threatening phone calls from people who only knew of the restaurant through this incident -- this whole thing comes across, from a distance, as a tale of two wrongs. The restaurant could have handled the no-show more tactfully; and while the OP certainly deserves sympathy over the auto accident, unleashing a bitter internet-wide vendetta looks way beyond any reasonable reaction to what the restaurant actually did.

                                                                                                                                Over the years, I've seen, and experienced, some vastly clearer-cut cases than this of "horrible, completely unredeemable" behavior by restaurant personnel. I've also seen vindictive tirades by indignant customers even when they were, by most measures, partly or totally responsible for the very situation they complain so vehemently about. Sometimes such customers admit this online, and STILL get sympathetic reactions. No wonder so many restaurant-trade people quote "the customer is always right" with such irony.

                                                                                                                                The ability to complain loudly online does not, alas, carry with it any built-in compunction for reasonable justification or proportion.

                                                                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                                                                1. re: eatzalot

                                                                                                                                  I am, right now, eating a baja chicken gordita from Taco Bell. It has been sent from heaven for me to devour. But, this thread should be classified as "not about food" cause it ain't.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: eatzalot

                                                                                                                                    I can only hope karma works its wonders.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: eatzalot

                                                                                                                                      This is probably the most thoughtful insight on this event that to me just escalated out of control.

                                                                                                                                    2. After this is all said and done.The business went belly up because of this.Did this really happen for a thirty dollar default and why ? Media,food,location,management,It's really insane.After reading it sounds like the lake dried up and maybe the food.I guess it's over with the last straw.

                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                      1. re: emglow101

                                                                                                                                        I doubt this was the cause last straw maybe but not the cause.

                                                                                                                                      2. I'm kinda stuck on this line from Red's website:
                                                                                                                                        "Our landlord has helped us before, but said NO to help in January 2014, even though he had for January 2012 and 2013."

                                                                                                                                        So doesn't that basically mean the business was closing at end of January anyway? (Depending on the terms the landlord gave, of course; but wouldn't there likely be an expectation of vacating premises soon?)

                                                                                                                                        2 Replies
                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuchessNukem

                                                                                                                                          if i were the landlord and I saw the negative publicity the restaurant has received I would assume the shutdown would be imminent so no good reason to prolong the inevitable and I'd start searching for a new tenant instead of giving a rent break.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: DuchessNukem

                                                                                                                                            Oddly it sounds like the landlord was giving him the courtesy that he didn't give the OP. Oh well. Restaurants are a super hard business.