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Gluten Free Diet - Legitimate Concern or Marketing Fad

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RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 04:02 PM

I'm just a bit too leery about the recent hype towards it . 1 of out 1750 people suffer from Coeliac disease or wheat allergy. The symptoms are loose, greasy stools and difficulty in gaining weight.

If the symptoms were difficulty in LOSING weight, then maybe there is something sinister with wheat.

But it was one of the first cultivated grains that eventually led mankind to civilization. It has provided us with energy and protein for thousands of years...until recently in America, we seemed to have developed an overnight allergic reaction to wheat. What's even more annoying is the sky high premium gluten-free products go for.

Is it the same in Europe? Will French bakers substitute soy for their baguettes? Will Italians use rice flour instead of semolina to make pasta? What will the Belgians substitute for their 500 year old delicious unfiltered wheat beer recipe?

Some manufacturers label wheat like it's some sort of poison. It's categorized along with trans fat. I feel like wheat is being highly misrepresented in order to push overpriced products people don't really need.

Is it me or do you folks feel the same way? Flame me if you wish, but I still can't justify buying into all that hype. Wheat has fed us for thousands of years and I won't turn against it in favor of businesses profiting by pushing expensive alternatives.

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  1. j
    jpc8015 RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 04:23 PM

    There are certainly very legitimate cases of celiac disease that are probably very unpleasant for those who suffer from the disease.

    For the other 316,999,999 Americans the gluten free thing is an awful trend.

    6 Replies
    1. re: jpc8015
      r
      RitaLin RE: jpc8015 Jan 3, 2014 11:14 PM

      Gluten free labels on flavored water products. Unreal.

      1. re: RitaLin
        LotusRapper RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 09:04 AM

        Is that water free-range too ? ;-)

        1. re: LotusRapper
          c
          Chatsworth RE: LotusRapper Jan 5, 2014 05:56 PM

          Of course, and it's name is Colin.

          1. re: Chatsworth
            deet13 RE: Chatsworth Jan 10, 2014 05:53 PM

            Here's his file...

             
        2. re: RitaLin
          linguafood RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 11:27 AM

          And FAT-free, let's not forget fat-free. I don't know why GF is such a big deal for you. Companies want to sell their products, and they will label them with whatever sells best at any given moment.

          But that point's been made several times here, I think.

          1. re: linguafood
            EM23 RE: linguafood May 7, 2014 01:25 PM

            I was just at Stop & Shop and they have a sale on "fresh low fat chicken", AKA boneless skinless chicken breast.

      2. a
        amishangst RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 06:44 PM

        If you do a search, there have been several posts on this topic hashed out over and over. Is the prevalence of celiac disease proper that great? Probably not, although Mayo Clinic and the National Institute of Health puts the numbers at closer to 1 in 141. However, there is more research now and greater visibility. Maybe there is something to it. Maybe it's only now coming to light with more research and awareness and now that we have a name for it and are looking for it, it merely SEEMS like it is more prevalent or it was there all along, but we never had a name for it. Additionally, some of the research is saying that part of the issue is due to cross-breeding of wheat types for shorter growing seasons and heartier wheat that is less susceptible to cold and blight and that the wheat of today is a lot different than the wheat of 50 years ago, let alone 500 years ago. If you believe in evolution at all, then isn't it just possible that we've created a more durable product, but in the process of doing so we created a product that our bodies have not yet evolved yet to tolerate? (Yes, I am also aware that that are other sources out there refuting this as well - maybe it's true, maybe it isn't, maybe it's only a partial explanation.) In the history of mankind there are millions of things that went unexplained until someone did more research and turned what we all thought was true completely upside down. Why can't this be one of those things that may be in the infancy of research? Think it's a fad all you want, but if you have a person experiencing autoimmune-like symptoms without explanation and experience drastic improvement after cutting out gluten, even if they aren't celiac proper, can you really discount that experience?

        I don't claim to be celiac, but I did an elimination diet to figure out my migraine triggers after suffering from migraines for 13 years. In doing that, I discovered a few...beets, for one (which is a shame because I love them). Part of the diet included eliminating gluten. After doing so, I went from having 3-4 migraines a week and headaches the remaining 3-4 days of the week to one migraine a month (usually hormonal, but sometimes certain lights trigger them). I went from having virtually zero pain-free days a month to rarely getting a headache or having to call in sick and nothing else changed - no medication changes, no changes in my home or work environment, no other significant changes in my diet other than cutting out gluten and the two other isolated triggers I discovered that were foods I rarely ate anyway (it's not like I went from eating crap to a healthy vegan diet - my diet is not all that different - just minus gluten). I've also experimented with eating gluten for several weeks and tracking how I feel and then going off. There appears to be a pattern. So poo-poo it all you want, but I think it's very short-sighted to write off something as fad when there are countless stories like mine and those with celiac disease proper experiencing life-changing results.

        I also want to point out that the implications of eating gluten for someone with celiac disease are far more reaching than loose stools and difficulty gaining weight. They are also not the same for everyone with celiac. Not everyone experiences weight loss - other symptoms include headaches, fatigue, joint pain, anemia, loss of balance and coordination, paresthesia in the extremities. I have a coworker who does have celiac who suffered for years with crippling joint pain being misdiagnosed first with rheumatoid arthritis and then systemic lupus erythrematosis and now is thriving and pain-free since receiving the correct diagnosis and being gluten-free. So if more awareness means that people who experience these debilitating symptoms get better labeling on food to avoid being crippled by their disease...then I'm all for it, particularly since the labeling can be iffy at best sometimes with wheat being a cheap filler and often hiding in products you would never dream of having wheat under not so obvious names. If you think it's a fad, don't follow it. No one is forcing it on you.

        53 Replies
        1. re: amishangst
          EWSflash RE: amishangst Jan 3, 2014 06:54 PM

          Agreed. It is a bona fide medical problem for some people, I feel certain, however, that there's a huge group of delicate flower/control freaks out there that want to feel "SPECIAL" and therefore like to torture restaurants and party hosts with their imagined sensitivities and demand not only special dishes, but rabidly modified versions of normally prepared dishes. They really piss me off. It makes the people with real allergies have a harder time via association with the Delicate Flowers.

          1. re: EWSflash
            a
            amishangst RE: EWSflash Jan 3, 2014 07:29 PM

            I know it might seem odd that I'm arguing with someone who is essentially agreeing with me, but I have to wonder where your basis for "a huge group of delicate flower/control freaks" comes from. That seems more like an issue of attribution bias. Do some exist? Sure, although they would exist whether or not gluten-free was the "it" thing to be and it would be in all aspects of their lives, not just their diet, I'm sure. I see it sometimes in the vegetarian communities - people who make a stink about chicken in their salad, then eat soup made with chicken stock, or people who claim an allergy because it's just "easier" than to explain the real reason why they don't eat that food. These "special snowflakes" or delicate flowers you speak of are also just as apt to make a fuss about natural fibers over synthetic, X brand of laundry soap over Y brand of laundry soap, sensitivity to smells.

            Again, without hard numbers, this is just more confirmation bias on my part, but I rarely come across these "special snowflakes". When I do, they tend to be rather vocal, but being vociferous =/= a huge group, though it may give the appearance of one. If I truly think about the entire number of people I encounter and how many of those act in the manner you're describing? I honestly, could only maybe come up with one and it's kind of a stretch. I have maybe seen a couple of more online in various forums but in my actual day to day life not so much. Either that or maybe the flora in the Midwest is just heartier than where you are.

            1. re: amishangst
              EWSflash RE: amishangst Jan 3, 2014 07:44 PM

              Nope, it's much drier here, so therefore far less mold. We desert rats, most of us, anyway, are a tough bunch.

              1. re: amishangst
                JMF RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 07:44 AM

                As someone who was a psychologist for many years I can say that food related psychological issues are one of the most prevalent of any. One of the most common ways it is expressed these days is with food phobias, false allergies, etc.

                I'm not disparaging those with real food related medical problems, but there are a huge proportion of false to real food sensitivity/allergy sufferers.

                1. re: JMF
                  LotusRapper RE: JMF Jan 4, 2014 09:06 AM

                  I'm allergic to brussel sprouts. Yeah yeah, that's it [imitating Jon Lovitz]

                  1. re: JMF
                    law_doc89 RE: JMF Jan 4, 2014 09:50 AM

                    Had to go through the peanut "allergies" with a local school that my kid attended. The "problem" became so widespread that they banned peanuts. Of course, many kids smuggled peanuts in anyway, the the "allergic" kids traded for the peanuts, and no one had a reaction. Seems the kids were only "allergic" when the parents were around. Probably an extremely common phenomenon for those who seek exoticism and a false, supernatural sense of control over their lives in mystic food mumbo jumbo.

                    Too bad so many have a hard time understanding the placebo effect. I agree with he above post, and, BTW, I teach scientific method at a university.

                    1. re: law_doc89
                      LotusRapper RE: law_doc89 Jan 4, 2014 09:57 AM

                      One of our son's friend is supposedly allergic to treenuts. One time she was over at our house and ate some cake that had some treenuts (walnuts and pecans) and we only realized after the fact. She was fine. We didn't tell her Mom (who told us she's allergic). She also didn't own nor carry an anyphalaxic pen with her.

                      UNLIKE our son who is allergic to (only) peanuts, as diagnosed by an allergist at the hospital with the proper allergy tests. He's not gotten to the anyphaxic level but suffered shortness of breath and tightening of his airway with ingestions of peanuts in the past. He's also asthmatic. We have 4-5 Allerjects floating about in backpacks, in the cars, lunch bag etc. Food allergy is a real concern to those who suffer from it, but there are 'posers' out there too.

                      1. re: law_doc89
                        vil RE: law_doc89 Jan 7, 2014 07:43 AM

                        Interesting. I have been reading about false positives for nut allergies but still have a hard time figuring out what is appropriate in my daughter's school, with respect to the nut ban. AFAIK there are different interpretations.

                        For example, I am told that snacks that are not declared as "nut free" are fine, such as seed crackers (which I understand may contain traces during to shared processing facilities). Coconut is fine, but chestnuts are not.

                        I try to respect the need for truly nut-allergic children to feel safe, but also feel somewhat resentful that the majority of our family's favourite foods and snacks cannot be brought to school, and my daughter often ends up having to bring the "boring alternatives".

                        For example, we made delicious walnut bread, candied chestnuts, roasted chestnuts, almond cookies and madeleines (with almond flour) over the holidays, and none of that is allowed to school. What did I give my daughter as a snack yesterday? A single roasted sweet potato, lol.

                        Yes, I am ranting a bit here, but nuts are such a convenient, mess-free, spoil-free, low-cost, delicious, versatile and nutritious food group. Really curious what percentage of people in a typical school has a life-threatening reaction to nuts.

                        1. re: vil
                          foodieX2 RE: vil Jan 7, 2014 11:15 AM

                          In my son's grade 4 kids have severe allergies. One is peanut, the other 3 are variations of tree nut, peanuts in addition to egg and soy. That roughly 11%. Last list from the school noted aprox 6% of the student body had some kind of nut based allergy.

                          1. re: vil
                            EWSflash RE: vil Jan 10, 2014 06:51 PM

                            I agree with you wholeheartedly, and am so glad that my beautiful son is A) only allegic to ibuprofin and bananas, and B) is 25, so that I don't have to go through those extreme food avoidances.

                            1. re: EWSflash
                              vil RE: EWSflash Jan 10, 2014 07:29 PM

                              Good for you and your son! My gripe is mostly that "tree nuts" is such a diverse collection (with species that actually belong to very different families), including lychees, coconuts, shea, acorns etc... With the growing incidence of "nut allergies", I am afraid that the possible resulting bans will pose increasingly restrictive limitations on what people can bring to school. For example, shea butter is the major moisterizer we use in our household...

                              And speaking of bananas, I read that chestnut allergy has a much stronger association with banana allergy, than with peanuts or other tree nuts.

                              1. re: vil
                                EWSflash RE: vil Jan 17, 2014 04:06 PM

                                Interesting. I have some chestnuts in the fridge- do I dare test them on him??

                          2. re: law_doc89
                            wekick RE: law_doc89 Jan 17, 2014 01:18 PM

                            And then there are those who have anaphylaxis. If you have ever seen someone have this type of reaction, I can't see how you would want to take a chance. Some also might have mild reactions to something and then sudden anaphylaxis that cannot be reversed. I have seen this twice once with an antibiotic and once with a latex allergy. I also have a friend who had anaphylaxis with cardiac arrest and she was resuscitated but they never knew what she was exposed to.

                          3. re: JMF
                            a
                            amishangst RE: JMF Jan 4, 2014 09:58 AM

                            I certainly don't discount the relationship between physical health and mental health. They are often not discrete. There are cases where physically the pain cannot be explained or is out of proportion to the objective findings and perhaps it's a combination of physical and pain amplification from an underlying comorbid affective or anxiety disorder or a conversion disorder. I absolutely don't deny that and as someone who has a great number of both medical doctors and licensed psychologists in both my personal and professional circles, I would like to think I'm not entirely ignorant on this issue.

                            However, I do take issue with phrases like "huge proportion" and "huge group" without actual numbers to back that up. If you compare that the total number of people out there in the U.S. or North America or the world, this "huge" number of people is not a significant portion of the population. In the thousands (not hyperbole, I'll estimate just shy of 5000) cases of people with physical and/or mental impairments who have crossed my path, I can recall exactly 3 going to the lengths that you and several other posters have described without having an actual diagnosis of celiac or other allergies. And it's usually not just food, I see it under the label of "multiple chemical sensitivities" where no objective medical evidence supported such a thing. I have come across people who think their child's learning disorder can be resolved with a gluten-free diet and eschew all Western medicine. But of my experience, this is such a small percentage. What I usually see is a bunch of people frustrated by being in pain. Sometimes they are also depressed and it's often hard to tell what came first, the depression or the pain. But M.D.'s receive virtually zero education in nutrition. So these people try pill after pill and become more and more frustrated, particularly since some diagnoses like fibromyalgia are thrown at them because other than the 18 trigger points it's largely a diagnosis of exclusion - they've ruled out RA and SLE, etc. What I see most are not people eschewing Western medicine, but trying alternatives in addition to it. Is it really that hard to believe that there may be a correlation between what we put in our bodies and how we feel, good or bad?

                            I'm not saying that the people you describe don't exist. Or that there aren't the Gwyneth Paltrow's of the world touting colonics and cleanses and grain-free diets as the cure for all that ails you. But I disagree with the hyperbole of so many people being "manipulated" or "faking it". RitaLin's assertion that people are being manipulated...Are there some? Sure, it's always bound to happen. But I was just at the grocery store. Sneaking a look at everyone's carts I saw plenty of people putting bread, cereal, granola bars, and frozen pizzas in their cart. The fruit snacks I like clearly say gluten-free on the outside of the box. Despite three other people being in the aisle with me buying fruit snacks, no one else reached for the exact same brand of fruit snacks I did because they were just so dumbstruck and manipulated by the gluten-free label. When I went to buy yogurt, I saw at least two people put regular refrigerated cookie dough in their carts despite there being two options clearly labeled gluten-free on the front of the packaging right next to the packages they were buying. I work with approximately 125 other people. We recently had a holiday gathering. There was one who is lactose intolerant (easy to work around), one with nut allergies (easy to work around on this occasion), a few vegetarians by choice (easy to work around), one celiac, and myself who has never been formally diagnosed and don't claim to be celiac, but went about it in a controlled manner and have made the well-informed decision to make the food choices that I do because in my experience I went from having 1/30 pain-free days a month if lucky to having 29/30 pain-free days a month. If huge numbers of people were being manipulated, out of a group of 125 people I would think you would see more than 3% needing special accommodation.

                            1. re: amishangst
                              law_doc89 RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 10:06 AM

                              The "exotics" detract from those with real physical problems. It isn't just the mentally ill who are hypochondriacs, but the ignorant, also, who are misled by tabloid science.

                              1. re: amishangst
                                s
                                sedimental RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 10:07 AM

                                I think the bigger problem is that people DONT pay attention to food trends, fads, science, pseudoscience, etc. the obese people that continue to buy and eat foods that they know are bad for them. They know it because they can look in the mirror...they know it because they can count the number of pills they take for diet related problems.

                                I have a much bigger problem with that attitude and it is much more of a societal problem than people trying new ways of eating.

                                1. re: amishangst
                                  law_doc89 RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 10:09 AM

                                  " But M.D.'s receive virtually zero education in nutrition."

                                  Not true, but good propaganda by naturoptorists.

                                  1. re: law_doc89
                                    a
                                    amishangst RE: law_doc89 Jan 4, 2014 10:26 AM

                                    I work with about 40 of them and all but one who went into a specialty focusing on it have communicated this to me. Are there some MD's who do? Sure, perhaps I, too, am guilty of a bit of hyperbole. There are very rarely absolutes. But it appears to be more common than not that nutrition is not studied in great detail or beyond cursory required courses unless they take additional continuing medical education credits in it to maintain their license.

                                    1. re: amishangst
                                      s
                                      sedimental RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 10:44 AM

                                      MD's only know the basics unless they are personally interested in it. I am in the medical field as well.

                                      I went to my doc (he's my age and fat) about a shoulder injury/ inflammation problem and asked him about an anti inflammatory diet. Blank stare. He said he could refer me to a nutritionist. I thought maybe because he was older he didn't have a clue.
                                      Then I went to the surgeon( also older and fat). Same
                                      conversation...clueless. Said I should take NSAIDs instead of doing any "woo woo diets".
                                      Then I went to another doc (young and thin, not too far out of school). Still clueless about diet and healing but gave me props for being in good shape "at my age" so he advised I keep doing whatever I was doing. More receptive to healing with diet alone though...he suggested I use "google" and check out more sports medicine sites.

                                      FWIW, I did heal myself with diet...no meds...no surgery. My older, fat doctor asked me how I did it. I think he is going to try to change his diet. I hope so, he looks like shit.

                                      1. re: sedimental
                                        law_doc89 RE: sedimental Jan 4, 2014 03:33 PM

                                        More likely, your "injury/inflammation" healed itself as it was most likely self limited anyway. What was your injury? DO you know the difference between injury and inflammation? This is the problem with all anecdotes. You need controlled studies with proper operational definitions.

                                        BTW, this past year it was found that anitoxidants may actually make cancer cells resistant to cancer treatment as cancer cells actually accumulate antioxidants. Passing item you may want to know.

                                        1. re: law_doc89
                                          s
                                          sedimental RE: law_doc89 Jan 4, 2014 03:45 PM

                                          No. It didn't. I won't go into details, but I am a published researcher and work in the medical field and understand your concerns. I am satisfied with my results and so are my doctors who were flabbergasted with the results.

                                          The problem with media reporting all the new " trends" or possible new treatments for maladies, is that only a portion of the story is told. Only a very small part of the whole picture is viewed. Humans are fairly complex. They don't fit neatly into control groups. Educating yourself gives you the best odds of getting through a serious condition. Unfortunately, some folks are not able to do that. I was very fortunate.

                                      2. re: amishangst
                                        law_doc89 RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 03:25 PM

                                        It is part of the curriculum, and perhaps many doctors would like to have had more exposure, but they get plenty in school. It isn't a;ways labeled as such, eg vitamins are taught in pharmacology, but it is a good propanganda line by naturopaths and businesses to get to the gullible, ignorant, and fearful.

                                        See:

                                        http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/m...

                                      3. re: law_doc89
                                        m
                                        magiesmom RE: law_doc89 Jan 4, 2014 05:47 PM

                                        Really?my MD said she felt very poorly trained in nutrition at A very prestigious med school and always sends patients to a nutritionist

                                        1. re: magiesmom
                                          q
                                          Querencia RE: magiesmom Jan 4, 2014 08:59 PM

                                          Having cooked for a heart-patient husband for 23 years I could not agree more that physicians often know little about diet. However, if you need help, go to a registered dietitian and not to a "nutritionist". The former is held to the standard of professional education required by state licensure and the latter is not. Anyone can self-describe as a nutritionist so if you consult one you run the risk of getting advice based on very sketchy training, if any, and faddy extremism.

                                          1. re: Querencia
                                            m
                                            magiesmom RE: Querencia Jan 5, 2014 05:47 AM

                                            I misspoke; I meant a dietician

                                            1. re: Querencia
                                              mcf RE: Querencia Jan 5, 2014 07:17 AM

                                              I have to disagree; dietitians professional dietary guidelines are bought by sugar and junk food manufacturers and are the polar opposite of heart healthy, or healthy in any way. A masters in nutrition from a school that bases coursework on actual science is far superior.

                                              Dietitiians are the folks who recommend starches and sugars as the basis of a diabetic diet.

                                          2. re: law_doc89
                                            pikawicca RE: law_doc89 Jan 5, 2014 03:43 PM

                                            Actually, it IS true. Most schools of medicine in the US require zero courses in human nutrition.

                                            1. re: law_doc89
                                              wekick RE: law_doc89 Jan 17, 2014 01:29 PM

                                              You will find very few physicians that incorporate nutrition in treatment of disease. Some will send patients to a dietician for diabetes or have a handout for a low fat diet for cardiovascular disease or order a generic nonspecific "heart healthy diet". I know of a scant few that would sit down and talk about the specifics to a patient. If they had a class in school, most have not added to that body of knowledge.

                                            2. re: amishangst
                                              law_doc89 RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 10:13 AM

                                              http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4239

                                              1. re: law_doc89
                                                a
                                                amishangst RE: law_doc89 Jan 4, 2014 10:58 AM

                                                Curiousity begs me to ask what the purpose of sharing your link with me is?

                                                I am in no way touting gluten-free as a cure-all or appropriate for everyone. I'm not saying gluten is inherently unhealthy. I've never been to a naturopath (I have an appointment for my annual physical with my M.D. on Monday who very kindly prescribed all sorts of medications in an effort to control my migraines that never really worked that well, except for one that does work, but only after the migraine has started). For those of you who can eat bread all day long to no ill effect, I'm happy for you. I'm not going to stop you. I miss the days where dinner was a hunk of cheese and a baguette.

                                                I am saying that I think it's short-sighted to dismiss that there are people who have seen resolution to their chronic pain or GI problems by cutting out gluten, even if they do not have celiac disease. And maybe with further research we will discover a more concrete link between gluten and some health issues or a greater prevalence than we all realized.

                                                I guess I'm not big on food-shaming people in general though. If going gluten-free makes you feel good, then by all means choose as you deem fit. In everything, there will always be fads or trends - truthfully, I've seen far fewer people follow gluten-free to be trendy than I saw people switching from butter to margarine, or back from margarine to butter, or following Atkins a few years ago, or the grapefruit diet. Because gluten-free is hard and can be expensive. Gluten is in so many places. I constantly hear "Oh, I could never do that...I just love pasta/bread/whatever too much." One of the three people I am personally acquainted with who tried gluten-free in an effort to improve their migraines (for the record, three of the four of us saw improvement, two of us remain gluten-free) went back to eating gluten even though her migraines greatly improved because she couldn't make the commitment. She admitted that she's seen an increase in her migraines since starting back on gluten. She makes her food choices and I've made mine. So even those on a trendy bandwagon, if they are really committed then good for them. I suspect a high proportion will realize just how hard it is and go back IF they feel there wasn't enough benefit to it. It has no bearing on my life.

                                                In the meantime, greater awareness has led to clearer and more consistent labeling and greater choices for those who may otherwise be debilitated by celiac or sensitivities, which isn't something that the Atkins diet or grapefruit diet or even the vegans at PETA can boast about. Given that, I guess I can't get that up in arms about HINT water and Lays chip having gluten-free labels on them and I'm reasonably certain I'd have the same feeling even if I weren't gluten-free (I was a gluten glutton for a lot longer than I've been gluten-free).

                                                1. re: law_doc89
                                                  wekick RE: law_doc89 Jan 17, 2014 01:45 PM

                                                  It comes down to the individual. I know several people who were "diagnosed" with Crohn's and various other diseases that their disease disappear when they stopped eating wheat. The most dramatic was my nephew with Crohn's and Rheumatoid Arthritis that became asymptomatic in a week and has remained so for well over a year. I could give you a rundown of his very objective symptoms but not appropriate here. He was on the highest doses of last ditch meds and he is now on no meds. It is cheap to try and if it works it can be life saving in some cases. If it helps one person why not try it.

                                              2. re: JMF
                                                EWSflash RE: JMF Jan 4, 2014 12:03 PM

                                                Thank you VERY much for that vindication.

                                          3. re: amishangst
                                            alarash RE: amishangst Jan 3, 2014 08:29 PM

                                            I want to preface my comments by stating that I really am a sensitive and nice person, and it goes against every bit of good sense for me to post an opinion on such a divisive and hot-button topic. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings or be insulting, and my comments are not intended to be rude or demeaning to anyone. I hope I have crafted my words such that even those who staunchly disagree can see that I didn't intend to be demeaning or disrespectful to them, especially those who feel they are afflicted with these conditions.

                                            My opinion only:

                                            The gluten-free issue is another way for people with mild psychiatric disease/depression/hypochondriasis to play the sick role, along with most cases of fibromyalgia, many cases of lyme disease, and others.

                                            While there are people with bona fide celiac sprue, lyme disease, and probably even fibromyalgia, large numbers of people with hypochondriasis who claim to have these conditions have convinced themselves they are sick, when in reality they are not (except that the symptoms are psychosomatic in nature).

                                            More of my personal observations (NOT scientific data):

                                            I've also noticed a very strong correlation between people who have these conditions and a severe mistrust of modern medicine and science, along with a nearly religious adherence to alternative therapies.

                                            I have also commonly noticed a poor grasp of logical rationale and the scientific method. For example, an absence of the understanding for the role of controls in experiments, and a general lack of understanding when distinguishing between the concept of *correlation* and that of *causation*.

                                            My observations are limited to relatively small numbers of people, and should be considered WEAK when compared to scientific data. Still, FWIW, they are my personal observations.

                                            1. re: alarash
                                              r
                                              RitaLin RE: alarash Jan 3, 2014 11:11 PM

                                              By no means am I discounting the disease. Im concerned about the irresponsibility of businesses profiteering from people without wheat allergy who for some reason believe that a gluten free diet is healthier.

                                              A gluten free label on a flavored water product!!!!
                                              Seriously? I mean, seriously?

                                              A gluten free label on LAYS POTATO CHIPS?
                                              Duh it's gluten free, potatoes were never a wheat based crop!!!! But they never talk about how the corn oil they use doesnt exist in its natural form and must go thru an artificial metabolic process to go from sugar to fat.

                                              I'd take gluten over corn oil any day.

                                               
                                               
                                              1. re: RitaLin
                                                k
                                                Kalivs RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 02:04 AM

                                                Here's the problem with that. Companies are putting gluten in everything. We have a family friend and co worker who was diagnosed with Celiac's disease a year ago after losing forty pounds. She had suffered from digestion and sinus problems for years, but the weight loss was was extreme. She had been trying different kinds of elimination diets but nothing seemed to work. Finally, she asked her GI to consider Celiac's. They did a scope and confirmed that she had it. You lose weight when you have untreated Celiac's because the GI problems don't allow you to absorb much nutrition from the food you eat. Lays and Doritos don't have gluten but Pringles do. Most Chinese food in our area is out because the soy sauce contains wheat gluten. After six months of successfully eliminating gluten from her diet, she was rushed to the hospital because some idiot had decided to put a spoonful of wheat in the daal she ate. A gluten free diet is not healthy at all, especially if you're relying on processed food. Sure, companies are capitalizing on people's fear but easy and accurate labeling on food items beats having to learn by experience.

                                                1. re: RitaLin
                                                  Kajikit RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 07:01 AM

                                                  Potatoes are not a gluten-containing crop... but unless you buy the unseasoned mega-plain potato chips, you're not JUST getting potato and vegetable oil - you're getting the mess of stuff they used to season it with. You're going to want confirmation that one of the additives isn't wheat. The same goes for any other modern factory-processed food. What else are they putting into it that's not obvious? When the list of ingredients is as long as your arm, it's very hard to tell.

                                                  1. re: Kajikit
                                                    s
                                                    sedimental RE: Kajikit Jan 4, 2014 07:52 AM

                                                    This!
                                                    I agree that a company is capitalizing when labeling water Gluten Free, but there is so much gluten hidden in so many everyday foods. So big deal. At least you can easily spot the big GF print on a package. It is tiresome to even shop! After shopping, cooking and baking for my GF daughter for Christmas, I was freakin' worn out! How nice it was to grab a few bags of chips labeled GF with confidence. Even still, she had a minor episode with a food with wheat protien isolate in something I missed. I felt bad because I was being so careful.
                                                    As a person that doesn't "need" to eat GF, I am perfectly fine for the marketing hype around packaging GF foods. Minor issue to us gluten eating people...big issue for GF people.

                                                  2. re: RitaLin
                                                    a
                                                    amishangst RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 08:43 AM

                                                    1) The FDA requires disclosure of the big 8 allergens, including wheat.
                                                    2) It's not as dumb as you think to label something like water (particularly flavored water) as gluten-free. Vitamin Water contains modified food starch. Common sources of it are corn, potatoes, tapioca...and wheat. Before stricter labeling requirements, it was basically like playing Russian Roulette for a celiac and lots of calls to the company to inquire about where the modified food starch was derived from. Also, for those who are celiac, they can have a reaction from as little as less than a crumb - there is no safe amount of gluten for them such that it being processed in a facility where cross contamination can occur is too much of a risk for them, even if the product itself may seem to be inherently gluten-free by nature. Heck, there are some bath and beauty products (lip balm for instance) that contain gluten. There are toothpastes that contain gluten.

                                                    And the thing is, there are many different names it could go by that aren't obvious to the casual observer. Maltodextrin is used in so many seasoning blends and bouillon cubes and sauces - seasonings like you find on potato chips. And maltodextrin can come from many sources, some inherently gluten free, but often-times from barley which is not considered safe for celiacs. Looking at Lays BBQ chips. It says the maltodextrin is derived from corn (yay for g-free and disclosing where it came from, but that doesn't always happen), but it also contains malted barley flour, which is not safe for celiacs. Pringles, even just plain old salted Pringles contain wheat. To be certified gluten-free by the FDA it has to contain less than 10 PPM. So even products that seem like they do not contain gluten may be an issue, especially if they are manufactured in the same space as other gluten-containing products.

                                                    There have been minimal standards until recently for the labeling of these products. The EU is light-years ahead of us the standardizing of their ingredients and labeling of foods as gluten-free, vegan, organic, etc. Veg*ns in the US have had to deal with this issue for years because "natural flavors" doesn't necessarily have to disclose if those natural flavors are derived from an animal (and a shocking number of times it will be, even in items you wouldn't think otherwise...google "castoreum").

                                                    If it makes the lives of those who truly need it easier, why make it the source of such derision? There's a whole boatload of other stupid out there in the world that doesn't mean the difference between someone thriving vs. being crippled with pain for people to mock. It's not that hard to skim past the words "gluten-free" if it doesn't pertain to you.

                                                    1. re: amishangst
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                                                      willyum RE: amishangst Jan 4, 2014 09:15 AM

                                                      Great post amishangst. Didn't realize vitamin water could contain gluten :)

                                                      Non-celiacs don't realize how pervasive gluten is, nor how much of a problem it can be for so many people.

                                                      1. re: willyum
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                                                        amishangst RE: willyum Jan 4, 2014 10:17 AM

                                                        Just to be accurate, Vitamin Water and Smart Water ARE gluten-free, to the best of my knowledge. They contain modified food starch, but further inquiry with their parent company revealed that the modified food starch they use is not derived from wheat (though you couldn't tell that from their label). And the Canadian version of the site confirms that, though the US version of the site is pitiful in it's lack of information.

                                                        But, without consistent labeling standards, there isn't an easy way to tell that. Modified food starch could go either way (they could also change their supplier and use a wheat-based one at any time). To the best of my knowledge, they don't label it gluten-free though and since they don't it's always best to double check again with the company. From my time as a vegetarian, I learned that companies can and do change formulations or where they source their ingredients from with little notice or fanfare. Yogurt and fruit snacks that previous never contained gelatin in them before suddenly do, etc.

                                                        That's why I don't see the harm in consistent and clear labeling. In the case of Lays brought up by RitaLin, they make some that are gluten-free and some that aren't. It's not like they changed formulations or slapped a label on front of something that always was g-free saying "NOW GLUTEN-FREE", they are simply putting clear language to differentiate their products in the place where people are already looking for nutritional information, if looking at that is important to you.

                                                    2. re: RitaLin
                                                      linguafood RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 11:25 AM

                                                      Just like water labeling tells you it has 0% fat. How is that any different?

                                                    3. re: alarash
                                                      mcf RE: alarash Jan 4, 2014 12:11 PM

                                                      "The gluten-free issue is another way for people with mild psychiatric disease/depression/hypochondriasis to play the sick role, along with most cases of fibromyalgia, many cases of lyme disease, and others."

                                                      You are seriously not only courting flames and you know it, but you are extremely misinformed, along with your 40 doctor cohort, if one believes you.

                                                      I worked with the mentally ill for many years, food was the least prevalent primary manifestation in that population, though not infrequently a co-morbidity in borderline personalities. Clearly, you have not had the time, what with writing dissertations online about stuff, to actually read any valid assessments free of bias and smug self referencing.

                                                      1. re: mcf
                                                        Kajikit RE: mcf Jan 5, 2014 03:29 PM

                                                        Thank you mcf. I was too upset reading this casual comment to reply. As a matter of fact, I HAVE had anxiety issues including food phobias, but I overcame them. Now (YEARS later) I have pain issues and fibromyalgia and it's a very different kettle of fish. All the willpower in the world can not make me able to walk a single step more than my body is capable of managing... to bring it back to the original topic, many fibromyalgics are advised to cut out gluten, especially if they have intestinal/digestive symptoms, which are very common - among the battery of blood tests used for diagnosis, I was tested for celiac and it turned out that I have no need to avoid gluten. I was very glad because I don't need the added complexity in my life...

                                                        1. re: Kajikit
                                                          mcf RE: Kajikit Jan 5, 2014 04:30 PM

                                                          Without going into exhaustive medical history, I had FMS for a brief time in the 90s, so bad that sitting in a car while it was turning was painful. I was fortunate that when I gave up starches and sugar for other reasons, my FMS went away literally overnight, gone the next day, and has never returned. I'm sure it's different for everyone. The pain was severe; there must be a special place in hell for those who'd dismiss as hypochondriasis or mild to moderate, other people's real suffering.

                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                            Kajikit RE: mcf Jan 6, 2014 09:15 AM

                                                            Some people react badly to various foodstuffs, and that's all there is to it. It doesn't have to be a medically diagnosed classic 'allergy' for something to disagree with your body - the trick is figuring out which/if any foods you need to avoid. I don't have the patience for an elimination diet and I don't believe it would make any real difference to me (aside from maybe my waistline) but I cut out caffeine and MSG over a decade ago because I tend to have palpitations and an overly-fast heart rate and stimulants are not good for me. It doesn't hurt me not to drink sodas or coffee etc. I did 'sugar-free' and 'dairy free' for a few years on a naturopath's advice, but I didn't have the self-discipline to stick to it long-term and it didn't really make any difference to my health either way. I didn't even lose weight because I was eating savoury snacks instead of sweet ones! Nowadays I don't need to strictly avoid dairy unless I'm on an antibiotic.

                                                            1. re: Kajikit
                                                              mcf RE: Kajikit Jan 6, 2014 09:18 AM

                                                              For me, it was insulin resistance (and turned out to be long undiagnosed diabetes). I'd developed mid life onest of PCOS which led me to cut carbs and a host of bad things I never connected to each other went away, overnight, literally the next day. And back then, came storming back. The symptoms were bad enough to reinforce the diet changes in my case. I felt awful for the first few weeks, though, til my system made a complete adjustment hormonally.

                                                      2. re: alarash
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                                                        cresyd RE: alarash Apr 25, 2014 08:54 AM

                                                        I am probably one of those people who currently irritate you in that I currently have an "undiagnosed gut problem" and as a result am on a mostly dairy free/gluten free diet. Compared to someone with a true allergy, I do not keep dairy free or gluten free - but I do know that the more I adhere to the diet the better I feel while my situation is sorted.

                                                        That all being said - I think that there is research that shows that in wealthier countries gluten intolerance is on the rise. This article from the NYTimes a year ago mentions a study looking at an area on the Finnish/Russian border I think is interesting. It doesn't have any definitive answers - but does emphasize that the wealthier countries are, the more likely populations are to have gluten problems. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opi...

                                                        1. re: cresyd
                                                          vil RE: cresyd Apr 25, 2014 09:12 AM

                                                          Very interesting article. Fascinating points on the correlation between wealth (affecting hygiene) and the incidence of celiac disease versus fecal-oral infections. About how the dreaded Helicobacter pylori appears to be negatively correlated with asthma and celiac disease, but in exchange for a higher incidence of ulcers and stomach cancer.

                                                          To me it is also significant that the article points out that a higher bifidobacteria count appears be negatively associated with gluten intolerance etc.

                                                          1. re: vil
                                                            c
                                                            cresyd RE: vil Apr 25, 2014 09:50 AM

                                                            Yeah - the article really stuck with me as basically saying "something's up - but what exactly..."

                                                            I think that the specific trendiness of gluten-free eating specifically as a means of weight loss is something likely to pop up with any kind of elimination diet. Cutting out a large amount of potential food choices from someone's diet (carbs, gluten, etc) will often help someone initially lose weight and so that's likely to expand the trendiness of any diet.

                                                        2. re: alarash
                                                          vil RE: alarash Apr 25, 2014 09:31 AM

                                                          Re: alarash

                                                          I would just like to point out that, also from my personal observation, there are people who had such negative experience with conventional medicine, resulting in significantly harmful, and sometimes even irreversible, consequences in their health. These are also people who understand science and experiments. They simply ended up finding a way that works for their health, in "alternative" medicine.

                                                          There are bad apples in alternative medicine, undeniably, especially because there is inadequate funding and interest to establish better standards, to further research to prove its efficacy. "Alternative medicine" is unfortunately often used as an umbrella term for everything that includes snake oils and the kitchen sink. It definitely takes someone with a clear and intelligent mind to be able to sort that out. Acupuncture WAS considered alternative years ago, but now is widely accepted as part of physiotherapy and pain management (although its application is way more than that and I bet it might be until another x number of decades before that is more widely understood and accepted).

                                                          1. re: vil
                                                            LMAshton RE: vil Apr 25, 2014 06:35 PM

                                                            Yup.

                                                            I'm one of those people who have weird reactions to pharmaceuticals. Pain killers do not, generally speaking, work on me. If they do, they work for less than a year before they stop working altogether. Local anaesthetics don't work on me at all (dental work is, as you can imagine, a nightmare). Fluoroquinolones - the entire class - can kill me. Fluoride in toothpaste can kill me (okay, that one would take weeks, but still.) I have odd side effects, life threatening side effects, to general anaesthetics. As a child, I had chronic recurring strep throat and tonsillities, and no amount of antibiotics ever really worked all that well - I was on antibiotics I kid you not at least 90% of the time from when I was 5 until I was 15. I've been on more pharmaceuticals than the next average 50 people. And they just don't work on me like they do on everyone else.

                                                            In my case, a lot of that is because of a genetic collagen defect that I have which went undiagnosed for a very very very long time. Which, along with my weird drug reactions, causes a huge list of other health problems and chronic pain. That huge list of other health problems and chronic pain were also considered to be in my head until I got an actual diagnosis. Suddenly, it's real. It wasn't before, but now it is. Funny how that happens.

                                                            However, I respond very well to Ayurvedic medicine (traditional Indian herbal medicine). A lot of people in the west consider that alternative. I don't really care. It works for me, and that's more than I get from western pharmaceuticals.

                                                            1. re: LMAshton
                                                              Tripeler RE: LMAshton Apr 25, 2014 06:53 PM

                                                              Thanks for your account. I have never had any particular problems with modern pharmaceuticals, but have found that Japanese-style Chinese medicine (kampou-yaku) works very well for me, and also find acupuncture very effective in most cases. I have an open mind about it, and I think that's working in my favor.

                                                        3. re: amishangst
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                                                          RitaLin RE: amishangst Jan 3, 2014 11:26 PM

                                                          NO JUST NO.

                                                          Never did I attack the disease but rather the irresponsibility of food companies over using the gluten free label.

                                                          I'm sorry you're gullible to American media and marketing.

                                                        4. foodieX2 RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:01 PM

                                                          Welcome to Ch! Interesting screen name.

                                                          Many foods have been ingested for decades. That doesn't mean allergies or intolerance don't exist. If you have no issues with wheat don't "turn against it". Simple.

                                                          4 Replies
                                                          1. re: foodieX2
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                                                            RitaLin RE: foodieX2 Jan 3, 2014 11:22 PM

                                                            TY. I'm glad companies are producing alternatives for the people who actually suffer from the disease.

                                                            But I don't appreciate the manipulative marketing a lot of food companies execute to the non sufferers that believe gluten free is healthier. Gluten free water, gluten free potato chips, gluten free chocolate, gluten free milk... It's really shameless. None of those products are wheat based so putting on that label makes it redundant. More than anything, it's destructive because the more people see the gluten free label, the more they will believe that wheat is to be avoided.

                                                            1. re: RitaLin
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                                                              Querencia RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 09:15 PM

                                                              I volunteer-assist a woman who is multiply-disabled and has multiple medical diagnoses. She has recently been medically diagnosed with celiac disease and we have been working on shopping and cooking tasks. Unless the item is labeled "Gluten-free" she simply does not believe it is. I can explain until I pass out that product X is gluten- free because everything in it is gluten-free but I am wasting my breath--- grasping the difference between summativity and nonsummativity is a complex level of thought that everybody isn't up for. So, personally, I am happy to see that label on every GF product. Yes, there are people out there who need to feel special and some of them do this with food. But I don't see that the labeling hurts anyone.

                                                              1. re: RitaLin
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                                                                Maggiethecat RE: RitaLin Jan 7, 2014 09:48 AM

                                                                Are you aware of all the foods (and other products) that can contain gluten? Just to list a few that many people may not expect to contain gluten:

                                                                -Soy sauce
                                                                -Worcestershire Sauce
                                                                -Bouillon cubes
                                                                -Ketchup
                                                                -Pickles
                                                                -Hot dogs/lunch meat/other processed meats
                                                                -Licorice & hard candy
                                                                -Oats/oatmeal (often processed on the same equipment as wheat so is not considered gluten-free)
                                                                -Salad dressing
                                                                -Chocolate sweetened with "malt" (malt syrup, etc.)
                                                                -Potato chips (namely Pringles, as listed by an above poster)
                                                                -Body products including lotion, soap, sunscreen, toothpaste
                                                                -Medicine coated with liquid gel

                                                                My mother in law is celiac. She was sick for several years before her doctors finally properly diagnosed her, and she lost a lot of weight and was dropping to dangerously low weights before she started eating gluten-free and was able to start gaining weight again. After being GF for several months and starting to feel better, she decided to "test herself" and ate a piece of wheat toast. Within an hour, she vomited violently. She spent the next 3 days feeling like she had the flu; she had no appetite, ran a moderate fever, and had body aches and chills. She spent the following 2 weeks feeling lethargic and just generally under the weather.

                                                                Even a small amount of contamination is no trivial matter for her. Her daughter took her out for dinner on her birthday. They went to a steakhouse and she ordered steak. They both specified for GF meals and told their server that MIL was celiac and very sensitive to gluten. Nothing obviously gluten was served on the table, like bread, but after the meal my MIL still became ill. Perhaps a seasoning on the steak contained gluten; perhaps the cook handled some bread before handling her food and didn't wash his hands in between. Even that small amount of contamination can trigger her reaction.

                                                                So, having GF labels on things is very helpful for her to determine if things will be safe for her to eat.

                                                                1. re: Maggiethecat
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                                                                  willyum RE: Maggiethecat Jan 8, 2014 09:16 AM

                                                                  Ya Maggiethecat, you pointed out the real problem for people with celiac. Gluten is in many unexpected places. My wife would add mayonnaise to your list and earlier it was pointed out that even vitamin water can contain gluten in the starches used in the flavorings. You can find the posts mocking 'gluten free water' but it can be a problem with additives.

                                                                  A lot of people say they are on a 'gluten-free diet' and mean they are giving up bread and other wheat products, but probably unknowingly are still eating smaller amounts of gluten. This diet is actually very similar to the "low carb diet" popular a few years back but not truly 'gluten free'.

                                                                  Real celiacs like your mother-in-law (and my wife) are eating a totally gluten-free diet by necessity and not by choice, and the critics of this diet should make that distinction.

                                                                  Hopefully threads like this can educate those who scoff and mock the faddish aspects.

                                                            2. w
                                                              willyum RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:09 PM

                                                              My wife began losing weight quickly about 20 years ago ... she would eat up to 4,000 calories per day and was still weak and dropping the pounds, with serious gastro-intestinal distress. It got so bad we thought she might die.

                                                              After several doctors couldn't figure out the problem she checked in to the Mayo Clinic where they ran a battery of tests and an internist noted that the villi in her intestines were flattened, meaning she couldn't absorb nutrients from food, no matter how much she ate. This is a symptom of celiac disease or extreme gluten intolerance.

                                                              Once she stopped eating any and all foods that had gluten in them (you would be surprised how it sneaks into things like vinegar or ketchup or other seemingly innocuous foods) she began recovering and after a few months she was back to her normal weight and doing well.

                                                              So in her case she could have died from malnutrition had a smart doctor not figured it out. Nowadays more doctors are aware of celiac disease and she would likely be diagnosed much quicker, but not back then.

                                                              I know it's a popular fad diet now but for some people it's very serious. She isn't bothered by the fad dieters, feeling that the more people who ask for gluten free products the wider variety of things will hit the grocery market shelves.

                                                              So when we book a restaurant I always make sure to let them know that she is gluten-intolerant and that it's not because she's on a fad diet, but because she has a medical problem. She can eat small amounts of gluten now without getting sick so we're OK dining out.

                                                              To answer your question, for some it's a fad but for those who are celiac it can be a real problem.

                                                              You asked about Europe ... we were in Spain in October dining at five of their Michelin-rated restaurants and everyone was very knowledgeable, with excellent GF breads and substitutes for menu items with gluten. I think there's a law that protects celiacs in Spain. And one of the Italian restaurants we're checking out has GF pasta ... so I think Europe is pretty aware of this.

                                                              3 Replies
                                                              1. re: willyum
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                                                                RitaLin RE: willyum Jan 3, 2014 11:42 PM

                                                                If you dont think food companies are exploiting the false fear people WITHOUT this disease have (which is my concern in the first place...companies exploiting, not the people who suffer from it) then yes, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and Easter Bunny are very real

                                                                 
                                                                1. re: RitaLin
                                                                  w
                                                                  willyum RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 06:56 AM

                                                                  I don't see the problem. There are an estimated 2 million people just in the US with celiac who can use these products. Having more products available only helps them (I know, I'm married to one). The higher the demand the lower the prices. I know my wife can find many more good GF products now than she could 15 years ago.

                                                                  There are several million more fad dieters who don't really need these products but for whatever reason they still buy them. It's their money so who cares if that's how they chose to spend it? Better that than the colonic cleanse or the Paleo diet or whatever else is trendy this year. In two years many of them will be off to something else. It's easy to poke fun at this demographic but they aren't doing anyone harm.

                                                                  The food companies are simply taking advantage of a market niche. Welcome to capitalism.

                                                                  1. re: RitaLin
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                                                                    gwendolynmarie RE: RitaLin Jan 18, 2014 12:28 AM

                                                                    You know, I had a similar reaction to you to this exact product when I first stumbled upon it- reacting in shock to the price of water with this labeling, lamenting the state of our food industry and culture. And I'm myself both vegan and gluten free (as one who went through extensive allergy testing, endoscopies and colonoscopies to confirm bloody, greasy stool was connected to my eating wheat).

                                                                    However, not a few moments later, I noticed that the flavored, nutrient enhanced Water I was about to purchase from another company was Not Even Vegetarian.

                                                                    Products labeled "water" that are not vegetarian and the demand for such products is perhaps a bit more disturbing to me than how the industry is capitalizing on, and to a degree fetishing, a legitimate medical issue.

                                                                2. Ttrockwood RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:12 PM

                                                                  Yes, it is a legitimate concern.
                                                                  And yes, it is also a marketing fad. Manufacturers are exploiting the "trend" towards gluten free and charging a premium for those products.

                                                                  There are several popular diet programs such as the Paleo diet that are supporting the gluten free trend.

                                                                  I am not discounting the potential health benefits that people have experienced from eliminating gluten, just agreeing that manufacturers are exploiting this market niche.

                                                                  7 Replies
                                                                  1. re: Ttrockwood
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                                                                    redips RE: Ttrockwood Jan 3, 2014 07:21 PM

                                                                    This is the best way to describe it. Good job.

                                                                    Too many on this board ignorantly chalk it up to a fad, when for many, the attention has brought a real intolerance to light. I for one am an example of just this. I am certainly not celiac, and continue to eat gluten with a watchful eye to quantity.

                                                                    I would challenge any doubter of it to make an honest attempt to cut it out of your diet for 3 days. It's not easy, but I can guarantee that you won't regret it.

                                                                    1. re: redips
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                                                                      magiesmom RE: redips Jan 4, 2014 05:56 PM

                                                                      In order to support a friend I went without gluten for thirty days. It was a huge pain in the butt. I felt no better or worse. That is because, I guess, my body processes gluten fine.
                                                                      I never have returned to eating as much bread, which I think is good as less carbs might be better, certainly it has taken some unwanted pounds off.
                                                                      I just report this because there seems to be a thought that gluten bothers everyone.

                                                                    2. re: Ttrockwood
                                                                      EWSflash RE: Ttrockwood Jan 3, 2014 07:46 PM

                                                                      Trockwood, I doff my hat to you for having put it so perfectly.

                                                                      1. re: Ttrockwood
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                                                                        RitaLin RE: Ttrockwood Jan 3, 2014 11:35 PM

                                                                        Indeed, the exploitation is quite shameless. And it's disturbing because it creates fear in the minds of people who don't suffer from the disease.

                                                                        I know not everyone will agree with me that marketers are going over board with the gluten free labeling. Those marketers have done their job well.

                                                                        1. re: Ttrockwood
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                                                                          willyum RE: Ttrockwood Jan 4, 2014 07:50 AM

                                                                          >> "Manufacturers are exploiting the "trend" towards gluten free and charging a premium for those products."

                                                                          This is basically true, but I would point out that the true celiacs have ALWAYS been paying a high premium for GF foods. The recent upswing in demand, fueled by the wanna-be Gwyneths on a fad diet, have actually helped the true celiacs by greatly lowering prices and increasing the number of products available.

                                                                          I asked my wife about this since she has been diagosed celiac for 20 years. She said back in the bad old days there were just a few mail order companies where she could get GF wheat/oat/flour substitute products (I think Amy's, Pamela, maybe kinnikinnick from Canada). Back then many of these had poor texture and taste, and were very expensive.

                                                                          She said in the past five years she's noticed three big changes ... the flavors and textures are much better, the prices are much lower because of the higher demand (still a premium over non-GF, but much less than before), and that almost anything she wants is available off the shelf rather than via mail order.

                                                                          So to celiacs like her it's a good thing there are more products available. The fad dieters are not really hurting anyone (they are just likely paying extra for something they don't need) but they are really helping the true celiacs.

                                                                          1. re: willyum
                                                                            Ttrockwood RE: willyum Jan 4, 2014 03:02 PM

                                                                            I' m so glad she is benefitting from this! I completely understand-i've been lactose intolerant for 20+ yrs and am thrilled at the variety of non dairy milks now available.

                                                                          2. re: Ttrockwood
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                                                                            Harts52 RE: Ttrockwood Jan 8, 2014 02:38 PM

                                                                            Thank you, Trockwood, for a succinct response (and with any luck, closure) to one of the most obnoxious pissing contests I've seen on the CH boards.

                                                                          3. w
                                                                            willyum RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:22 PM

                                                                            >> 1 of out 1750 people suffer from Coeliac disease or wheat allergy.

                                                                            Not sure where you're getting your number but it seems to be off by more than 10x according to this survery from the National Institute of Health, which puts it at 1 in 141 based on a survey of 7,798 people. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22...

                                                                            What's interesting to me is that my wife must have had this for years before it reached a tipping point. She had been in a serious auto accident a few months before she began the serious weight loss, leading the doctor to theorize that the stress from that was the cause.

                                                                            Another interesting tidbit is that we both had our DNA analyzed and according to the tests we both had just 'moderate' risk of being celiac, with my risk slightly higher than hers per my DNA. Yet I can eat pretty much anything and everything with no symptoms of food allergies. So what actually triggers it isn't fully explained by our DNA, at least to the level we were tested.

                                                                            3 Replies
                                                                            1. re: willyum
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                                                                              roro1831 RE: willyum Jan 4, 2014 02:28 PM

                                                                              I was diagnosed with Celiac about 3 yrs ago. Severe weight loss while eating like a horse. Doctors said stress may have brought it on. Turns out two of my friends mothers have it as well and they were diagnosed in the 80s and both were in the hospital when they were finally diagnosed, one had droppe to 89 pounds.
                                                                              I appreciate all the companies labeling things as it makes it much easier to shop

                                                                              1. re: roro1831
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                                                                                willyum RE: roro1831 Jan 4, 2014 02:49 PM

                                                                                roro, my wife was diagnosed in 1993 when not many doctors were familiar with it. First two couldn't find anything wrong, third one put her on antibiotics since "maybe you picked up some rare bug while traveling in third world countries." Nope.

                                                                                Fourth doctor suggested perhaps it was all in her head. Nope, definitely in her stomach. Finally the fifth guy figured it out. Similar to your friends' mothers in the 1980's ...

                                                                                I checked my DNA profile again ("An estimated 2.9% of your DNA is from Neanderthals" ... not kidding, that's my number). It said from my genes I had a 2.5% chance of becoming celiac (vs .07% for the population at large) and even from the ages of 65-79 I would still have a .81% chance of it showing up. So I guess it sometimes does appear later in life. But now I eat gluten all the time without any issues.

                                                                                Anyway, hope you are coping well with your celiac. My wife is fine now but it was a struggle before she was first diagnosed.

                                                                                1. re: willyum
                                                                                  mcf RE: willyum Jan 4, 2014 04:17 PM

                                                                                  Interestingly, my ex was diagnosed with it in the 50s. Without delay, too.

                                                                            2. s
                                                                              sedimental RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:27 PM

                                                                              My daughter was in pain and agony for years. Had no idea why. She ate the same things all the other college kids ate- top ramen, Mac and cheese, pizza, sandwiches, etc. when she cut out gluten, she was "cured" overnight. Not a fad. She eliminated many things along the way- meat, soy, nuts, etc. the gluten is easy to get a reaction from. No brainer.

                                                                              Many people are discovering the same thing. I have no idea
                                                                              why this is happening now. There are some guesses though, wheat has infiltrated almost every food group on grocery store shelves. If current allergy theories are given credit, then we may have done this to ourselves. We may have created the problem by consuming so much processed food.

                                                                              1. z
                                                                                zackly RE: RitaLin Jan 3, 2014 07:33 PM

                                                                                It is both a legitimate concern for some & a fad diet for many. I remember when the no-carb diet craze replaced the low fat/high complex carb diet. It didn't last too long because people love bread and pasta too much.

                                                                                1. Kajikit RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 06:52 AM

                                                                                  If you don't react to gluten, you don't need to eat the substitutes... for the many who do, I'm sure the recent increases in gluten-free products (and proper labelling to make it easy to locate hidden gluten) make their shopping and eating much easier!

                                                                                  1. JetLaggedChef RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 07:28 AM

                                                                                    I have no opinion on this, but wonder the same about peanut allergies.

                                                                                    When my 9 month old neice came to live with me due to unexpected family circumstances, I didn't get any of her medical history so one of the things I did was went to an allergist to have her tested in a safe controlled environment. It seems that if I needed to be carrying an epi-pen (or make sure one was available at the school) that it was just good common sense to know.

                                                                                    I realize that for those who have peanut allergies, it's extremely lethal. But - everyone I knew grew up eating PB&J.

                                                                                    Has there really been some freak explosion in the number of people that have peanut allergies? Or have people just been dying all along and nobody noticed?

                                                                                    4 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: JetLaggedChef
                                                                                      foodieX2 RE: JetLaggedChef Jan 4, 2014 07:44 AM

                                                                                      There are many, many studies looking at this. One such study believes it due our hyper clean society and the plethora of germ killing cleaning supplies combined with vaccinations wiping out many child hood diseases. Kids immune systems are not "tested" as much and therefore are not as strong as generations past. The study believes this is causing a rise in allergies, not just peanut

                                                                                      So while anecdotally "everyone ate PBJ's" kids also routinely got measles, mumps, chicken pox. We ate warm tuna fish sandwiches out of paper bags that sat in cubbies and unrefrigerated mayo based dishes at picnics.

                                                                                      1. re: foodieX2
                                                                                        JetLaggedChef RE: foodieX2 Jan 4, 2014 08:01 AM

                                                                                        My partner has his undergraduate degree in microbiology and his doctorate in pharmaceutical science. His specialty is the immune system and its response to various stimuli (bacteria, viruses, chemicals). While that's great a great theory, I can promise you that in reality it doesn't actually work that way. (Let's avoid the propaganda associated with the ignorance surrounding vaccines.)

                                                                                        Food poisoning almost never causes death (or even diarrhea, unless there's an extreme high amount of living bacteria). Normally it manifests itself in flu-like symptoms. Also, most food borne illness take 24 - 72 hours to fully manifest. (So while people *think* it's the last thing they ate that made you sick, it's actually from something they ate 1 - 3 days ago.) This is also covered in great detail in the book for the first course at the Culinary Institute of America.

                                                                                        Ever notice how old people often have "a touch of the flu" or a "24 hour bug"? There's a 99% chance that's food poisoning from that tuna fish sandwich and their habit of leaving food out, eating it past its prime, etc. People have been getting sick from that stuff all along, they just didn't know any better.

                                                                                        1. re: JetLaggedChef
                                                                                          foodieX2 RE: JetLaggedChef Jan 4, 2014 08:03 AM

                                                                                          No worries- not my study. And as I noted just one of the many out there. And lots of anecdotal data too.

                                                                                      2. re: JetLaggedChef
                                                                                        jw615 RE: JetLaggedChef Jan 4, 2014 07:58 AM

                                                                                        One of the reasons that there is an increase of food allergies is people doing things like what you did - taking children to an allergist to be tested without any reaction history.

                                                                                        I'm not trying to say that you did something wrong, it makes sense. But lots of doctors will do an across the board test for all sorts of allergens - without any reaction history, the positive predictive value of allergy testing is pretty low. Environmental allergies are a little bit different, but most allergists will not want to test for foods if you do not think that it is an issue.

                                                                                        I have a significant number of food allergies - the get the epi-pen and go to the hospital kind. But I 'test positive' to several foods that I do not react to when I eat. (Which is good, because my diet would be seriously limited if I had to avoid those too.)

                                                                                      3. juliejulez RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 07:52 AM

                                                                                        I know 2 total people who have actual Celiac. Other than that, I think most of the people who say they need to be gluten free are doing it because it's trendy. Like has already been mentioned, there are a few diets that basically say you need to gluten to lose weight. There's a book out there, "Wheat Belly" that some people act like is the bible.

                                                                                        So, while I think it's great that there's a lot of products out there for people who truly need to be gluten free, I think it's mostly a marketing fad.... much like labeling something "all natural" or how "fat free" was awhile back.

                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                        1. re: juliejulez
                                                                                          wekick RE: juliejulez Jan 17, 2014 02:04 PM

                                                                                          I know someone with some advanced testing of their lipid panel that had very ominous results. They also had two serious heart attacks. They followed Dr Davis's eating plan before the book was written and reversed that pattern. It isn't necessarily for everyone but helps many people that fit the criteria.

                                                                                        2. k
                                                                                          KrumTx RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 07:56 AM

                                                                                          I know a few people who have cut out gluten to lose weight. These are the same ones who cut out white foods a few years ago and fat a few years before then.

                                                                                          Does that mean these Facebook acquaintances are faddish and kinda stupid? Most definitely. But I imagine they feel vindicated by seeing all of the OMG Gluten-Free! products.

                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: KrumTx
                                                                                            LotusRapper RE: KrumTx Jan 4, 2014 09:09 AM

                                                                                            What are "white foods" ?

                                                                                            1. re: LotusRapper
                                                                                              foodieX2 RE: LotusRapper Jan 4, 2014 09:12 AM

                                                                                              white bread, white flour, white potatoes, white rice….

                                                                                              1. re: foodieX2
                                                                                                k
                                                                                                KrumTx RE: foodieX2 Jan 4, 2014 09:25 AM

                                                                                                I will admit that I cut some of the white stuff out a few years ago in an effort to maintain my weight. I started buying brown rice instead of white, whole wheat bread instead of my normal one, and I cut down on crackers for chili, etc.

                                                                                                I still ate carbs, though, since they're practically everywhere. Was that faddish? I don't know. But studies showed the sugar spike, storage, etc. that led me to cutting down. I also got myself on my treadmill more often. I liked it better as a clothes-hanger.

                                                                                                1. re: foodieX2
                                                                                                  LotusRapper RE: foodieX2 Jan 4, 2014 09:32 AM

                                                                                                  Thanks.

                                                                                            2. law_doc89 RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 09:44 AM

                                                                                              Yes, there is real celiac disease (sprue) that is uncommon, and there is true science illiteracy that is widespread.

                                                                                              1. k
                                                                                                Kalivs RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 04:44 PM

                                                                                                It is much easier to find GF foods in grocery stores and restaurants in Europe.

                                                                                                1. rmarisco RE: RitaLin Jan 4, 2014 05:09 PM

                                                                                                  i skimmed this thread - doesn't seem to have been mentioned that the wheat that we use in america has been highly HIGHLY hybridized and is not all that similar to the wheat from the 1800's. The gluten is now different in the USA.. even the wheat they use in france is slightly different. there is one strain of wheat called einkorn (sp?) which has never been hybridized. I believe this hybridization has led to it been more difficult to assimilate, coupled with the fact that wheat is in so many products, makes for a resistance with many people. I believe it is a fact, not a fad!

                                                                                                  1. Uncle Bob RE: RitaLin Jan 5, 2014 07:49 AM

                                                                                                    The Correct answer is both,.

                                                                                                    1. vil RE: RitaLin Jan 7, 2014 08:38 AM

                                                                                                      As for me, I have been considering trying to go GF, not because it is trendy, but because I really want to improve on my health - ongoing, painful gastrointestinal issues, inability to GAIN weight despite a high nutrition diet, and overall poor health.

                                                                                                      With discussions like this, I am more and more convinced it is at least worth a try. I have not done it yet only because it is a real pain to make the change to go completely GF.

                                                                                                      ETA: This was meant to respond to juliejulez's post above.

                                                                                                      <<Other than that, I think most of the people who say they need to be gluten free are doing it because it's trendy. Like has already been mentioned, there are a few diets that basically say you need to gluten to lose weight.>>

                                                                                                      11 Replies
                                                                                                      1. re: vil
                                                                                                        mcf RE: vil Jan 7, 2014 08:42 AM

                                                                                                        If you're like many people, cutting obvious wheat sources could be enough. If not, why not get tested?

                                                                                                        1. re: mcf
                                                                                                          vil RE: mcf Jan 7, 2014 09:23 AM

                                                                                                          I was tested negative for all food allergies a few years back, even though I was visibly reacting to shellfish and other miscellaneous things. The reactions, though serious, were inconsistent. Would a re-test make any difference?

                                                                                                          1. re: vil
                                                                                                            mcf RE: vil Jan 7, 2014 09:42 AM

                                                                                                            Skin or blood testing? Did you have tests for anti gliadin antibodies?

                                                                                                            Years ago, I tested completely negative for all the inhalants I was later found allergic to, but my food allergies showed up in the order of severity I'd listed them as on serum testing, RAST, back then.

                                                                                                            Certain foods have high histamine levels, fish among them, but many folks (including moi) only react when they're not very fresh; this is my pattern with fish, shellfish and poultry.

                                                                                                            I'd re-test and also ask for both skin and serum testing.

                                                                                                            1. re: mcf
                                                                                                              vil RE: mcf Jan 8, 2014 02:12 PM

                                                                                                              Skin test only, for common allergens - and I was negative on all food, and positive for some 3 environmental allergens. Had some blood tests where I was told did not reveal anything, but I am sure there was no test for gliadin.

                                                                                                              Good to know there can be such a difference between the tests. I will bring it up to my doctor when I have a chance.

                                                                                                              Interesting about the freshness versus reactivity likelihood (but poultry too?) My experience with allergies is like a complex puzzle, and every bit of useful information helps!

                                                                                                              1. re: vil
                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                autumm RE: vil Jan 10, 2014 08:21 PM

                                                                                                                My toddler had negative skin and blood tests to both peanuts and the major tree nuts the tested for.

                                                                                                                But the hives and shortness of breath after a 1/4 teaspoon of peanut butter (which she LOVED), well, can't really argue with that. It's just scary cause I don't know what could be a trigger.

                                                                                                        2. re: vil
                                                                                                          juliejulez RE: vil Jan 7, 2014 12:17 PM

                                                                                                          If you think it'll help your health issues, I would try at least cutting out obvious wheat sources, like mcf suggested, and see what that does. I think cutting out things like bread and pasta (there's lots of gluten-free versions of these out now) wouldn't be so hard. If your symptoms stay the same, then it's probably not the gluten.

                                                                                                          My SO has Crohn's and they suggested he go gluten-free. He did, but it didn't help his issues so he's back on the grains (he was glad cause he really wouldn't want to be beer-free :)).

                                                                                                          1. re: juliejulez
                                                                                                            vil RE: juliejulez Jan 10, 2014 11:43 AM

                                                                                                            In a similar way (as your SO), I would like to find out answers, but also might not be ready to find out if gluten affects me, in case I really have to cut it out from my life :-)

                                                                                                            Given what others have shared about celiac disease, where even traces can matter, would I expect to see a noticeable difference (assuming I do have an issue with gluten), if I go 99% gluten-free? It sounds really hard to go 100%, unless I am turning my household's eating habits upside down, given that gluten is everywhere, especially after the possibility of cross-contamination is taken into account.

                                                                                                            1. re: vil
                                                                                                              l
                                                                                                              Lori D RE: vil Jan 10, 2014 01:50 PM

                                                                                                              Reactions to gluten can vary. There are those who get sick from a very small amount of cross contamination. Then there are those who say they can eat a small amount of foods with gluten very occasionally.

                                                                                                              And there are those who are in between. For me, I seem to need to go about 99.9% gluten free. I do still eat foods with soy sauce (which is often made with wheat, although I have heard that the process of making soy sauce changes the gluten so it is less or even not reactive), and I don't have an obvious reaction. I have mistakenly eaten foods with a very very small amount of wheat - towards the bottom of the ingredient list - and not suffered obvious reactions. However, I did react (mildly) recently after mistakenly eating two small bites of something unfamiliar that did have wheat.

                                                                                                              The last time I knowingly cheated was one small cookie, about 2 months after going GF. That was enough to make me sick (brain fog). But I can eat food prepared in the same kitchen with wheat, handle wheat-based food, etc, and not have an issue.

                                                                                                              1. re: vil
                                                                                                                mcf RE: vil Jan 15, 2014 12:47 PM

                                                                                                                You know there's always a spectrum of severity, right? And the longer one ignores and accrues cumulative damage, the more likely one is to progress along the spectrum.

                                                                                                                I'm on the side of information, it's power, not punishment.

                                                                                                            2. re: vil
                                                                                                              d
                                                                                                              dmjordan RE: vil Jan 8, 2014 04:26 PM

                                                                                                              Have you been tested specifically for celiac disease? (BTW, celiac disease is not a allergy to wheat, barley and rye. It's an autoimmune disease.) If you want to be tested for celiac disease, do so while you are eating gluten. If you have stopped, they may not be able to detect it. Mine was found through an endoscopy (camera was put down my throat and the damage to my intestine was visible). If you stop eating gluten and get tested, your intestines will look fine. I can't speak to other types of celiac testing.

                                                                                                              1. re: dmjordan
                                                                                                                vil RE: dmjordan Jan 10, 2014 11:45 AM

                                                                                                                Thanks for the suggestions. Haven't been tested yet, but it is on my list now, and your points noted.

                                                                                                            3. p
                                                                                                              praisethelard RE: RitaLin Jan 8, 2014 10:02 AM

                                                                                                              So, my SO has Celiac, his entire family has it on his mom's side - his brothers and his mom all have it. His dad doesn't, because it's genetically linked to the maternal side, for whatever reason, but he still eats GF the vast majority of the time. He can have gluten whenever he wants with no side effects - therefore, he's gluten tolerant. However, he'll espouse the health benefits of eating gluten free until the cows come home - he's seen what a difference it's made to his family personally. My SO's brother was very sick for a long time, and nobody could figure out what was wrong, until they started doing elimination stuff and hit on gluten. Back even in the 90s, people didn't know about celiac or gluten intolerance, so it wasn't even on doctors' radars as a thing to possibly look into. But eventually the entire family went GF and collectively felt much better for it.

                                                                                                              I, on the other hand, am not celiac, but I do feel better when I don't have gluten. I originally went off gluten about a year ago, because I was moving in with the SO and would have to eat gluten free all the time anyway when living with him. Plus, I noticed that when I didn't have gluten for a few days, I would go into a "withdrawal" - constantly hungry, grumpy, and headachy until I had gluten again. I thought, that can't be good, so I took the gluten out. After about a month, I reintroduced gluten into my diet and promptly got (TMI warning here) a UTI. This happened three other times during the course of the year, and the only direct link I could glean was that every time I got one, I'd had gluten a few days beforehand. I'd also feel very foggy mentally, extra-tired and sluggish, and have had joint pain. So even if I don't actually have celiac or gluten intolerance at all, it's still a better idea for me generally not to have it. Interestingly, different kinds of gluten affect me differently - freekah causes pretty mild effects, so I can have that if I really want, but malt causes the worst and most severe reaction. Just my two cents!

                                                                                                              1. l
                                                                                                                Lori D RE: RitaLin Jan 8, 2014 10:53 AM

                                                                                                                In addition to what everyone else has said, there are those of us (including me) who don't have full-blown celiac disease but are gluten intolerant. If you include these numbers, the number/percentage of people who really need to eat gluten free rises quite dramatically from what you have said (and, I think, you have undercounted those with celiac).

                                                                                                                I do not claim that wheat is poison to everyone, but it is poison to me. (I don't have one of the symptoms you list, difficulty in gaining weight; in fact, I am overweight. But I had lots of other very serious, documented symptoms, caused by malabsorption from damage from eating wheat.) So it is very helpful to have it clearly labeled so I can avoid it. Those who do not have issues don't need to do so. For example, I don't have nut allergies, so I can eat foods that are labeled as having them, and it doesn't bother me (or make me fear nuts) if the inclusion is prominently labelled.

                                                                                                                There was a pretty extensive list downthread of foods that contain wheat even though you might not expect it. However, that wasn't even complete. For example, most commercially produced soups include it. If you go to Campbell's website, you won't see a single Campbell's soup on their gluten free list.

                                                                                                                Also, I recently found that wheat was added to a commercially available (in Japan) pudding. I never even thought about checking that label.

                                                                                                                I do agree that saying that GF food is inherently healthy is not true (some of the GF sweets have more sugar to compensate, and certainly are not healthy). I also agree that wheat-based food is delicious. But I prefer regaining my balance, among other things (after falls that cost me pain and money with dental work as a result of hitting my mouth) to eating that food, delicious as it is.

                                                                                                                1. chartreauxx RE: RitaLin Jan 9, 2014 03:19 PM

                                                                                                                  i think it's both. i am right there with you on the fad-ish nature of GF eating. and given the percentage of people with legitimate health reasons not to eat gluten (very small) and the size of the food/restaurant market that has sprung up to serve it (HUGE!) i'd say the majority of the people on the bandwagon are exactly the sort of food fad followers that annoy me no end.

                                                                                                                  however, for those with TRUE health reasons to go gluten-free, it's no joke. i had a roommate who was celiac. she once was ill for days after being exposed to gluten. the exposure? it was taco night. all her stuff was GF, we kept it all separate in the kitchen, etc. but, the toppings (guac, sour cream, etc) were out in bowls with spoons. someone accidentally touched her flour tortilla with the spoon, then returned it to the guac. our celiac roommate used it after that, and that was enough to make her really sick for days, and give her a violent rash for weeks.

                                                                                                                  as far as weight loss not being a problem? i could see how people might think that to be true offhand, but weight loss/difficulty gaining weight are NOT inherently good things. being too skinny is just as bad for your health, if not worse, than being too fat. also, the reason for that weight loss is (in the words of my celiac former roomie) that it's "like dragging a lit lighter through my intestines when i eat gluten". hardly a recipe for health.

                                                                                                                  just my two bits. overall gluten free is probably overblown, but it's a huge deal for a small subset of the population that has real health issues around gluten.

                                                                                                                  1. s
                                                                                                                    shezmu RE: RitaLin Jan 10, 2014 05:38 PM

                                                                                                                    Crazy Idea: Bread used to have 3-4 ingredients and go through a *lengthy* fermentation process. Now bread regularly has over thirty ingredients in it, a lot of which they don't even list and some of which are known problematic like transglutaminase (in the context of bread) and monsatan laboratory oils, and gets turned from flour into a bread-like substance in several hours. Maybe that's an important detail.

                                                                                                                    5 Replies
                                                                                                                    1. re: shezmu
                                                                                                                      h
                                                                                                                      Harts52 RE: shezmu Jan 10, 2014 06:35 PM

                                                                                                                      I'm not knowledgeable on gluten issues but I think what you say has merit. I was struggling to lose weight with no results and read an article that recommended avoiding processed foods, called them chemical sh**storms, and said our bodies just don't know how to process this stuff. I eliminated as many processed foods as I could and immediately realized improvements in how I felt and within a few weeks, the weight started falling off.

                                                                                                                      1. re: shezmu
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                                                                                                                        Lori D RE: shezmu Jan 13, 2014 06:54 AM

                                                                                                                        I think it might be important to some, but not to others.

                                                                                                                        I had problems as a child with wheat (called a wheat allergy at the time, but, looking back at my symptoms, I think it was probably more of an intolerance issue than a true allergy). This was before the issues like different hybrids of wheat and differences in baking processes were an issue. So I don' t think that affects what I should do. It might for others, though.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Lori D
                                                                                                                          s
                                                                                                                          shezmu RE: Lori D Jan 13, 2014 09:50 AM

                                                                                                                          Laboratory yeast baked bread goes back over hundred years, so I doubt you're that old. But definitely, for every food, there's a group of people who will die if they take a bite of it. Treating the food badly never helps either.

                                                                                                                          1. re: shezmu
                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                            Lori D RE: shezmu Jan 15, 2014 11:17 AM

                                                                                                                            Usually, when people bring up changes in wheat, they mention hybrid strains that are about less than 50 years old. I think I had reactions to wheat before those were common. But you are correct that I wouldn't be able to know if changes from 100 years ago were a factor.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Lori D
                                                                                                                              s
                                                                                                                              shezmu RE: Lori D Jan 17, 2014 04:51 PM

                                                                                                                              The hybrid wheat thing with the super gluten and other lovely things that modern "bakers" still can't make bread with without a dozen plus additives is likely a factor to. I believe there are people who can eat spelt sourdough just fine but common wheat sourdough still messes them up. I don't nickname common wheat "the terminator wheat" for nothing.

                                                                                                                      2. l
                                                                                                                        lisamims RE: RitaLin Jan 11, 2014 07:13 AM

                                                                                                                        I think the most important thing to realize is that celiac is 1 in 133 people. (It's 1 in 85 in some populations.) The other thing, is that gluten-intolerance affects, according to a Boston University study, as many as 1 in 5 people.

                                                                                                                        My father's side of the family has gluten-intolerance. They get incredibly sick if they eat gluten. Both of my siblings, my father, and my maternal great-grandmother had it. My mother's side of the family has celiac. My aunt and I have biopsy diagnosed celiac. Neither gluten-intolerance nor celiac are uncommon. Conservatively, gluten-intolerance affects 10% of the population, and 1% of the population has celiac. That's not hype!!!!

                                                                                                                        However, I agree that gluten-free items are overpriced. I'm a gluten-free food blogger at glutenfreedirtcheap.com, and I've researched cheap gluten free items for years.

                                                                                                                        Not everything sold as gluten-free comes with a markup: Hormel, anything owned by the Lever Corporation, McCormick's, Betty Crocker (!) and a whole lot of corn manufacturers (Maseca, Old El Paso), sell their products at the regular price. I even found a three lb bag of peanuts at the grocery store yesterday for $3.00, that said,"certified gluten-free," on the back. (And Bush's beans, and Jenni-O Turkey are gluten-free--they're not expensive.) Some companies just decided to be nice to the ten percent of the population that can't have wheat. That's just good business.

                                                                                                                        1. LMAshton RE: RitaLin Jan 16, 2014 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                          I do not have celiac disease nor an obvious wheat allergy.

                                                                                                                          I can eat small amounts of wheat with no problem, such as perhaps a piece of bread maybe twice a week at most. But any more than that, and my digestive system goes wonky and my joints hurt more. I have similar reactions to other grains. I have not been tested by an allergist, but I have tested this numerous times. I won't insist on gluten-free in a restaurant, for example - I'm not that sensitive. But I do limit my wheat consumption because it's better for my health.

                                                                                                                          Sure, there may be the "special flowers" who insist on allergies that may or may not be real. And then there are those of us who react in typical and atypical ways.

                                                                                                                          1. g
                                                                                                                            gfr1111 RE: RitaLin Jan 16, 2014 07:40 PM

                                                                                                                            This gluten sensitivity bears a remarkable resemblance to MSG sensitivity, the fad of the 1980s. As Jeffrey Steingarten remarked in regard to the MSG sensitivity fad, "Why don't a billion Chinese have a headache?"

                                                                                                                            Similarly, the gluten fad will eventually wither away and something else will take its place. If it were real, don't you think researchers would have noticed a cause and effect correlation years ago? Of course, even after the general public has forgotten about this fad, "gluten intolerance" will stay alive in the minds of hypochondriacs everywhere.

                                                                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                                                                            1. re: gfr1111
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                                                                                                                              Lori D RE: gfr1111 Jan 17, 2014 09:42 AM

                                                                                                                              There is plenty of research documenting gluten sensitivity.

                                                                                                                              1. re: gfr1111
                                                                                                                                wekick RE: gfr1111 Jan 17, 2014 02:15 PM

                                                                                                                                Amazingly correlations are not always noticed. It might be because symptoms can take a long time to develop or go away. It might be that some are only sensitive to a particular substance in the presence of another substance. People at one time thought cigarettes were healthy. It was thought that AIDS was not contagious. We learn! Here is another thing- not everybody is alike. It is astounding how people react differently to viruses, bacteria, medication, food, new knowledge.

                                                                                                                              2. p
                                                                                                                                pedalfaster RE: RitaLin Jan 17, 2014 01:45 PM

                                                                                                                                I know this site is food-focused, but I would love to hear from some of the med-professionals who frequent these boards on this topic.

                                                                                                                                I think I have a pretty good handle on full-blown celiacs.

                                                                                                                                But what is going on with the "gluten intolerant"?

                                                                                                                                Do they still ~have~ intestinal villi? Are their villi stunted either in length or number? What, exactly, is going on physically?

                                                                                                                                TIA

                                                                                                                                1. wekick RE: RitaLin Jan 17, 2014 02:19 PM

                                                                                                                                  We have a number of people with severe wheat problems and we don't buy the processed stuff. We don't find it hard to cook without wheat. It is odd why people resent so much what other people eat.

                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                  1. re: wekick
                                                                                                                                    h
                                                                                                                                    Harts52 RE: wekick Jan 17, 2014 03:46 PM

                                                                                                                                    I agree with being puzzled by some of the reactions. Really a shame that people can't be more understanding, or at least open-minded.

                                                                                                                                  2. paulj RE: RitaLin Feb 3, 2014 03:30 PM

                                                                                                                                    http://www.scientificamerican.com/art...
                                                                                                                                    ""Gluten Sensitivity" May Be a Misnomer for Distinct Illnesses to Various Wheat Proteins
                                                                                                                                    Gluten may not be the only wheat protein that can make people sick"

                                                                                                                                    1. l
                                                                                                                                      LGStore RE: RitaLin Feb 22, 2014 09:30 PM

                                                                                                                                      Actually it is called CELIAC and it is an auto-immune disease. And 1 in 133 Americans are diagnosed, which doesn't touch the surface of folks affected by gluten. ( I have no idea where your 1750 number comes from).

                                                                                                                                      And, Europe is FAR more advanced than the US in it's understanding and recognition of the problems. Note specifically Italy.

                                                                                                                                      If you are not affected by Gluten, then don't worry you need not "justify" anything. But for others it is a matter of life, death and good health.

                                                                                                                                      http://celiac.org/celiac-disease/reso...

                                                                                                                                      Italy

                                                                                                                                      All Italians are tested for celiac disease at an early age (by 6). Each Italian citizen over the age of 10 with celiac disease receives a monthly stipend of 140 euros, which can be spent on specific gluten-free foods (regulated by the Ministry of Health). Italians with celiac disease also receive extra vacation time to shop/prepare GF food. The Italian Celiac Association and government have done an excellent job educating restaurants on how to deal with celiac disease. There are even gluten-free meals in schools, hospitals, and all other public eating establishments.

                                                                                                                                      http://www.celiachia.it/HOME/HomePage...

                                                                                                                                      1. s
                                                                                                                                        shezmu RE: RitaLin Mar 1, 2014 12:57 PM

                                                                                                                                        I'll go on the record and say this: by ten years time, the Gluten-free movement will be assimulated into the heirloom grain/sourdough branch of the real food/food hipple movement.

                                                                                                                                        1. b
                                                                                                                                          Billy33 RE: RitaLin Mar 1, 2014 07:06 PM

                                                                                                                                          I am a sceptic but when it comes to Coeliac disease I believe it because you can test for it. I have friends who have severe bowel problems and tried exclusion diets in regards to gluten and they have felt better.
                                                                                                                                          I do wonder whether they feel better because of the exclusion of gluten or the fact that taking gluten out of your diet also removes a lot of processed food and makes you focus very minutely on what you eat?

                                                                                                                                          1. r
                                                                                                                                            renut RE: RitaLin Apr 25, 2014 07:24 AM

                                                                                                                                            Gluten free is not a fad, it is a need for those who suffer after ingesting even minute traces. It is painful and erodes one's health, causing inflammation to the whole gut and immune system. I was fine with all grains and ate whole wheat all my life, then suddenly terrible pain and inflammation for months... After months of pain and problems, I've been diagnosed with an Autoimmune Gluten Disorder. The doc said today's wheat is not yesterday's wheat - that it has been genetically modified and has more genomes than the original wheat. For some, their immune system cannot recognize today's wheat protein as a food, but as a protein that is not safe for the body. As their immune system attacks the gluten, it can get confused and attack the protein in their gut, which is very similar to that of gluten. The result is an inflammatory allergy-type response any time they consume any wheat. So wheat IS a poison for those who have this sort of response! I was fine one day, and then life changed dramatically the next. Gluten-free is NOT A LOSE WEIGHT DIET! It should not be made into a diet to lose weight! Go gluten-free only if is causes intestinal pain and inflammation, and autoimmune problems.

                                                                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                                                                            1. re: renut
                                                                                                                                              johnb RE: renut Apr 26, 2014 01:45 PM

                                                                                                                                              I'm sorry, but the best I can say for your doctor is that he/she is badly misinformed, and you are passing along misinformation. Specifically, while there have been strains of GMO wheat developed, there is NO GMO WHEAT in commercial trade. You can be 100% certain neither you nor anyone else in the general public has ever eaten GMO wheat or any product of GMO wheat. All that stuff about some people's systems not being able to recognize "today's wheat" is malarkey. Celiac is a serious issue (my wife is a celiac sufferer), but it is not due to any genetic change in wheat.

                                                                                                                                            2. r
                                                                                                                                              RelishPDX RE: RitaLin Apr 26, 2014 09:56 AM

                                                                                                                                              I’ve been diagnosed with celiac twice by biopsy, confirmed by the antibody blood tests. However, I do worse on the gluten free diet than off it. That’s right, worse. Horribly worse. Oddly though, both biopsies only showed “spots of villi flattening”, which my GI doctor had never seen before. After performing the second biopsy, she said she had a hard time selecting where to take samples.

                                                                                                                                              I’ve also been told that I’m the only person in the history of mankind who’s been able to successfully discontinue Dapsone, the medication given for the skin rash associated with celiac, and not have the rash return, even though I haven’t maintained a GF diet.

                                                                                                                                              So the current theory on my condition is that I have ‘refractory celiac’, a disease that cannot be cured by the GF diet, and that my body only reacts to gluten when overstressed, such as when I’m given too much of a medication like thyroid.

                                                                                                                                              Something interesting that I ran across in researching all of this the third and last time I was on the GF diet, I found on a site named corepsychblog.com, but the page is no longer available on the site. Luckily, I saved it to PDF. It had references to that peptides from both gluten and casein react with opiate receptors in the brain. The page did link to the Great Plains Laboratory website’s info about the gluten/casein peptides test, which is still there and says:

                                                                                                                                              “The Gluten/Casein Peptides Test can determine the inability to digest wheat, rye, barley, and milk. These undigested proteins, called peptides, are associated with gastrointestinal, neurological, and neuro-developmental disorders.

                                                                                                                                              Urinary peptides are incompletely broken down pieces of protein. The peptides from gluten and casein can react with opiate receptors in the brain, thus mimicking the effects of opiate drugs like heroin and morphine. These compounds, called neuropeptides, have been shown to react with areas of the brain's temporal lobes that are involved in speech and auditory integration. Neuropeptides also decrease the ability to feel pain and effect cognitive function.

                                                                                                                                              Most people who have food allergies to milk and wheat also have problems with peptides from these foods interacting with their brain and causing an opiate-like effect.”

                                                                                                                                              My layman’s view:

                                                                                                                                              1) Those who are on a strict GF diet *may* be feeling the same effect from gluten as they would from opiates when they’re accidentally “glutened”. For example, some people given opiates will experience GI upset, including vomiting.

                                                                                                                                              2) Those who are going to go totally gluten or milk-free, should do so slowly, mimicking the same type of regimen they would as if they were tapering off opiates.

                                                                                                                                              Sadly, I wasn’t aware of the opiate connection when I made my GF diet attempts. If I had known, I would have approached the diet much differently.

                                                                                                                                              In regards to the whole “it’s not your father’s wheat” issue, I agree that a monumental change in how wheat products are processed have occurred in recent decades, which *may* have contributed to a rise in gluten sensitivities. In the UK, for example, 80% of the bread is now processed by the ‘Chorleywood’ method developed in the early 1960s, which allows for a much shorter processing time.

                                                                                                                                              Yes, gluten sensitivies are real. It's my belief that they're also very individual, and there's no one-size-fits-all answer.

                                                                                                                                              1. elegraph RE: RitaLin Apr 26, 2014 07:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                For those with celiac disease, even a tiny amount of gluten causes problems. This isn't a matter of discomfort; the disease destroys the intestines' ability to absorb essential nutrients. Another group of people are sensitive to gluten but do not have the issue with nutrients. To those without celiac disease or gluten intolerance, there is NO benefit to following a gluten-free diet.

                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                1. re: elegraph
                                                                                                                                                  wekick RE: elegraph Apr 27, 2014 09:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                  By definition you are right but the trick is determining who the group of people are that are sensitive to gluten and how that sensitivity might be manifested. Some who do not have an immediate reaction might still have sensitivity long term. There is no criteria for gluten sensitivity.

                                                                                                                                                2. foodieX2 RE: RitaLin May 7, 2014 01:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                  A friend whose daughter has celiacs sent me this. She was cracking up because she feels like she experiences this everyday.

                                                                                                                                                  http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/527398...

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                                                                                                                                                    zackly RE: RitaLin May 7, 2014 01:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                    Too funny bit on Jimmy Kimmel interviewing gluten free LA residents;
                                                                                                                                                    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05...

                                                                                                                                                    1. Teague RE: RitaLin May 7, 2014 08:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                      My darling sister is very smart. And has an eating disorder of long standing (tends to starve herself, I've been there too). And is a stay at home mother of four small children. It's my belief that her obsession with gluten-free, grain-free eating, associated with other dietary restrictions (pure organic, local, no potatoes) is an expression of her lack of outlets for her intelligence and drive, and a way to mask her issues with eating. While I don't necessarily think it's bad for you to eat, or not eat as it were, that way - I worry a bit about what she's teaching her kids. I can see the restrictions backfiring even now, those kids are obsessed with sugar to the point where it's a real problem to have them at my house. Contrast friends who let their kids eat whatever balanced with healthy activities, those children don't want candy. Forbidden is wonderfully attractive.

                                                                                                                                                      My sis is a hot size zero tho, give the diet that. I'm a moderate sort of wine drinking, cheese eating, foie gras inhaling size 10.

                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Teague
                                                                                                                                                        chartreauxx RE: Teague May 8, 2014 02:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                        size zero isn't inherently "hot", and size 10 isn't inherently "moderate". when i was deep in my eating disorder, i was too small for size 00. i'm much "hotter" at a healthy weight - and so is anybody. if the size zero is only achieved through strict dieting, over-exercising, or any other means intended to limit the body's natural, healthy size... it's not hot.

                                                                                                                                                        be proud, and don't encourage your sister by putting her pant size on a pedestal. *health* is beautiful.

                                                                                                                                                      2. JTPhilly RE: RitaLin May 8, 2014 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                        perhaps its been said upthread

                                                                                                                                                        certainly there are people who are sensitive even terribly allergic to gluten - but their numbers in no way account for the current obsession with GF evident on grocery store shelves

                                                                                                                                                        as with all extreme diets often the people who feel the need to go on them were eating poorly - and in going "X" free they also replace a whole lot of processed junk with whole natural foods - and wala - they feel better. I would bet that most people who are GF with no medical basis and singing its praises did not give up a diet that included natural high quality breads and pastas but a diet of donuts and pizza and white bread along with lots of commercially proceed foods full of stabilizers etc. dropping this junk will make anyone feel good - I always feel awful after eating that junk with any frequency but a slice of home baked natural bread with a pat of quality butter or a pasta dressed in olive oil and vegetables has never made me feel anything but happy and well.

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