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Vin Jaune

r
robodog Dec 17, 2013 12:08 PM

What can you tell me about vin jaune? I've never had it, but after reading a short piece about it recently, I'm intrigued.

Do you know any wine bars that might serve it? I'd like to taste it before buying a bottle blind.

  1. mangeur Dec 17, 2013 12:36 PM

    I would try at Legrand (Passage Vivienne) or Lavinia (just off Madelaine).

    If you cook, I would suggest just buying a good bottle and, if you don't love it from the glass, use it judiciously when cooking chicken or fish with cream and morels. Heavently! Kept in the refrigerator, it seems immortal.

    1. m
      Maximilien Dec 17, 2013 12:41 PM

      For wine bars:
      Where are you located ?

      I've rarely seen it available at wine bars;

      you can get it at Pullman in Montreal ( if the wine list on their page is up to date) if you are in the area.

      It is peculiar, not an easy wine to drink on its own (IMO); it is oxydized and is somewhat nutty.

      It goes very well with food of the region it is made (Jura in France); Comté cheese and chicken with vin jaune.

      One good thing is that it keeps very well when the bottle is open; and the bottle is "only" 620ml instead of a regular 750ml bottle.

      Max.

      15 Replies
      1. re: Maximilien
        r
        robodog Dec 18, 2013 05:10 AM

        Thanks Max,

        I should have mentioned; I live outside NY but am in Paris almost every week for work, so - yeah, I was really asking about providers in Paris.

        And thanks all for the responses. It seems that vin jaune is not a very popular wine, but (without having tried it yet) I am still intrigued. I love a glass of chilled Manzanilla and it sounds like there may be some similarities.

        1. re: robodog
          w
          winefuhrer Dec 18, 2013 05:35 AM

          robo,

          I believe the NoMad (NYC) has some on the list (in addition to other great Jura wines), not sure about BTG. If you ever get down to Boston (Somerville) Bergamot has one BTG. I know the question is directed at Paris but I have not been recently enough to know. Best wishes.

          1. re: winefuhrer
            r
            robodog Dec 18, 2013 05:51 AM

            Ah - good to know.

            What are the other great Jura wines that you like? I don't know anything about Jura wines (other than the fact that vin jaune is one from that department).

            1. re: robodog
              w
              winefuhrer Dec 18, 2013 06:37 AM

              robo,

              I have had a Vin Jaune (I had it by itself and may have enjoyed it better if properly paired) as well as Poulsard and Trousseau (both red)...one at NoMad and one at Gramercy Tavern. I wish I recalled the producers but do not.

              1. re: winefuhrer
                Delucacheesemonger Dec 18, 2013 08:44 AM

                If in States, generally Tissot, Puffney, or very rarely (have seen at Astor in NY) Le Chais de Vieux Bourg, a top producer.
                In Paris Caves de Pantheon on Rue St Jacques generally has stuff by Pierre Overnoy, considered the top by many.

              2. re: robodog
                Busk Dec 20, 2013 03:45 AM

                Anything with savignin should give you some of the barnyard flavor.

                I like a nice glass of macvin, a cheaper apero. It's the daddymac of Jura bevs. Only ever saw it in the region, like marcs from Jura which are rarely commercialized.

                1. re: Busk
                  Delucacheesemonger Dec 20, 2013 09:01 AM

                  Currently have in my cellar 11 different makers of Macvin, easy to find in Paris, let me know where you are and l will give you a nearby shop or two.

                  1. re: Delucacheesemonger
                    r
                    robodog Dec 20, 2013 09:23 AM

                    My employer always puts me up at the Marriott Rive Gauche, 14eme.

                    1. re: robodog
                      Delucacheesemonger Dec 20, 2013 10:35 AM

                      Relatively close to you is the one mentioned. On Rue St Jacques just south of Rue de Ecoles is Caves de Pantheon, they have Overnoy and a few others.
                      It is just off the Place Luxembourg RER B stop.

                      1. re: Delucacheesemonger
                        r
                        robodog Dec 20, 2013 11:37 AM

                        I'll be there tomorrow. Thanks!

                        1. re: robodog
                          Parnassien Dec 20, 2013 12:34 PM

                          While Deluca's Caves du Panthéon is a sure bet, the area around your hotel might also be worth exploring for both vin jaune and macvin.

                          There's an excellent caviste just a 5-min walk from the Marriott... La Treille d'Or on the rue de la Tombe-Issoire in the 14th... it had a "dégustation" of Jura wines last month.

                          The café on the corner of boulevard St Jacques and rue de la Tombe Issoire is also a bit of an oenophile hang-out but I seem to remember an emphasis on wines from the southwest.

                          The rue Daguerre (10-min walk) is this quartier's rue commerçante/ shopping street and worth a visit even if you don't find what you're looking for. Four excellent cavistes (Maison Peret, La Cave des Papilles, La Cave Daguerre, & Le Repaire de Bacchus (a chain but good and if I want something not in stock at this branch, they can usually get it in a day or two)

                          1. re: Parnassien
                            Delucacheesemonger Dec 20, 2013 01:01 PM

                            As always l genuflect in your presence. {8>)

                            1. re: Delucacheesemonger
                              Parnassien Dec 20, 2013 01:20 PM

                              No undue admiration is required (ok, ok, i'm lying)... and of course the admiration is returned tenfold (not lying) :)

                    2. re: Delucacheesemonger
                      Busk Dec 20, 2013 02:16 PM

                      Thanks! Well, this week, I'm actually in Philly, but you of all people may know where to find macvin here too.

                      1. re: Busk
                        Delucacheesemonger Dec 20, 2013 02:18 PM

                        Never saw it in Pa, only NY, Astor for one.
                        Contact me on my info page and be glad to supply you with one of mine

          2. p
            Ptipois Dec 17, 2013 01:08 PM

            If you want a good expression of vin jaune for your first experience, I highly recommend Château d'Arlay. You'll certainly find it at Lavinia and Caves Augé.

            1. Delucacheesemonger Dec 17, 2013 01:15 PM

              Vin Jaune or its upscale neighbor Chateau-Chalon have a definite sherry flor and can feel and taste like an exquisite sherry. Also maybe the longest lasting French wine, my cellar has bottles from the 50's and 60's.
              At Bastille market on Sunday, the gentleman with the long wine booth in the center isle of the market has Berthe-Bondet vin jaune and their vin paille as well and not for bad prices.

              2 Replies
              1. re: Delucacheesemonger
                Parigi Dec 18, 2013 05:42 AM

                DCM: did we not have a good vin jaune chez Casimir once? Nice meal, overwhelming cheese platter, great wine.

                1. re: Parigi
                  Delucacheesemonger Dec 18, 2013 08:37 AM

                  Nope, we had a savignin, grape is same but aged far longer for vin jaune.

              2. John Talbott Dec 18, 2013 05:41 AM

                I would add to all the sagacity already expressed that not everyone loves vin jaune, indeed elsewhere on a now moribund website a poster was upset after drinking some not having expected an "off" taste. But you know what you're getting into so should enjoy it.

                1. r
                  robodog Dec 18, 2013 06:02 AM

                  Interesting that nobody seems to know of a Paris wine bar that might serve vin jaune. I get the vibe that it is an extremely unique wine that few people drink.

                  But then, if it keeps well - why not open a bottle and advertise it as a "special"? If I were to ask at a wine bar, would they think I was nuts?

                  7 Replies
                  1. re: robodog
                    Parigi Dec 18, 2013 06:06 AM

                    Your question is strangely framed.
                    Vin jaune is not something we set out to seek from wine bar to wine bar that has dozens if not 100 different types of wine (like Bouclier de Bacchus).
                    We run into it in restaurant wine lists, and order or do not order it depending on what type of food we are ordering.
                    As I have explained upthread, we did see it and order it with our meal Chez Casimir, a restaurant, not a wine bar.

                    1. re: Parigi
                      r
                      robodog Dec 18, 2013 06:12 AM

                      It's no problem; people always think I'm nuts. I'll seek a bottle at a merchant and give it a try.

                      Thanks.

                      1. re: robodog
                        mangeur Dec 18, 2013 07:45 AM

                        You do not at all come across as nuts. It is just that, as explained upthread, vin jaune is not a vin de soif. One would never, I think, say to oneself, "I think I'll go have a glass of vin jaune." It is certainly a wine that suggests terroir both in itself and in the kinds of foods with which it sings harmony.

                        As JT often reflects, like art and porn you will understand it when you experience it.

                        Yes, do pick up a bottle. Google some recipes that include it and transport yourself to the Jura for the evening.

                        1. re: mangeur
                          John Talbott Dec 18, 2013 08:23 AM

                          "like art and porn"
                          I found this amusing note by Eric Pfanner in the NYT, Feb 15th, "The first time I tasted Vin Jaune I think I pulled a face like an Englishman who has just found out that he has eaten a horse burger. But then I tried it with cheese, and I understood." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/din...

                          1. re: John Talbott
                            mangeur Dec 18, 2013 08:26 AM

                            Lovely! And applicable to more first tastes than Vin Jaune.

                            1. re: mangeur
                              John Talbott Dec 18, 2013 08:34 AM

                              I like the horse burger reference, esp this week where it dominates the news in France, see this from the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europ...

                            2. re: John Talbott
                              r
                              robodog Dec 18, 2013 09:43 AM

                              OK - so JT blew my cover. That was the article that piqued my curiosity in the first place and inspired the OP.

                              But I gotta admit, I've never tried a horse burger with cheese.

                    2. u
                      UPDoc Dec 18, 2013 07:53 AM

                      Monsieur Le Prince in the past Chez Maitre Paul space has retained a cassolette of chicken with morels and vin jaune façon "Chez Maître Paul.” and they have had vin jaune on their list.

                      1. Parnassien Dec 18, 2013 10:21 AM

                        I don't think vin jaune is all that difficult to find at wine bars/ restaurants in Paris... usually paired with cheese. Although there are probably 100s of places, Bones in the 11th, Mini-Palais in the 8th, Les 100 de Taillevent in the 8th, O Chateau in the 1st, and La Truffière in the 5th are good starts.

                        12 Replies
                        1. re: Parnassien
                          r
                          robodog Dec 18, 2013 10:28 AM

                          I'll check 'em out. Merci.

                          1. re: robodog
                            PhilD Dec 18, 2013 12:36 PM

                            Agree with Parnassien it's not especially rare, it's simply a wine that's not quaffed in quantities - am I also correct in thinking it's often available as half bottles on wine lists?

                            1. re: PhilD
                              Delucacheesemonger Dec 18, 2013 07:01 PM

                              Comes in a bottle called a clavelin which is 62 centiliters, have not seen any other size.

                              1. re: Delucacheesemonger
                                mangeur Dec 19, 2013 07:46 AM

                                At least Rolet and Ganavat put up in 375ml bottles shaped similar to the 62 centiliter clavelin.

                          2. re: Parnassien
                            r
                            robodog Jan 16, 2014 01:44 PM

                            So, just wanted to close this out with a hearty thanks for all the info on les vins du Jura. It's now almost a month later, but just prior to Christmas, I tried La Treille D'Or and Cave Daguerre; neither of them had it. So for kicks I stopped at Nicolas and they had two different ones; I bought a clavelin of Arbois - 32E (which I think is a decent price from what I've read). I also bought some Comté and Mont d'Or (not the right pairing, but was curious after reading mentions of it here).

                            Brought it home and on Christmas eve I made everybody (four others) read this entire thread and also the February article from the NYTimes.

                            So then, for the grand opening… drumroll please!…
                            It was very well received, though sumptuous it is not. The comté mix is a thing of beauty. Indeed it is very close to a Spanish Manzanilla, but far more complex. Manzanilla goes great with a tapa of roasted almonds and I'm sure the Vin Jaune would too.

                            I think it is expensive cl. for cl. IMO, many other wines are far more interesting and satisfying and go better with the main course. It is a "niche" wine…. but you all knew that already!

                            Thanks for your help.

                            1. re: robodog
                              Parnassien Jan 16, 2014 03:17 PM

                              Robo,
                              You might qualify as an honorary Parisien. The searching is more fun than the finding, no? ... and such joy when you find something in a place you didn't expect to find it. And along the way you discovered the rue Daguerre market street as well as your vin jaune. If you paused in the Café Daguerre for an hour or so of peoplewatching and pretending to read Le Nouvel Obs , you will also qualify for the special "Flâneur" certificate.

                              1. re: Parnassien
                                r
                                robodog Jan 16, 2014 03:24 PM

                                Ha ha. Merci. Indeed the searching is best. Throughly enjoyed speaking with the wine merchant at La Treille D'Or (your rec, no?). Café Daguerre is my go-to breakfast joint - about once a week. If I read my kindle, do I still qualify as "Flâneur"?

                                1. re: robodog
                                  Parnassien Jan 16, 2014 03:48 PM

                                  I think the operative word is "pretending"... no difference if its La Nouvelle Obs or a Kindle as long as you don't miss a second of the comings and goings on the street and of the conversations at neighbouring tables.

                                  And yes, La Treille d'Or is mine mine mine ... but I'll share. Not only are they exceptionally helpful but their regular dégustations are a delight.

                                  1. re: Parnassien
                                    mangeur Jan 16, 2014 05:12 PM

                                    "And yes, La Treille d'Or is mine mine mine ..."

                                    Not anymore.

                                    Thanks for this. I think it's called Flâneur-Lite.

                                    1. re: mangeur
                                      Parnassien Jan 17, 2014 12:50 AM

                                      Mais Mme Mangeur, every neighbourhood has its equivalent of La Treille d'Or... no need to make it a destination unless you have the good sense to install yourself in the Left Bank hinterland on your next trip. And btw, the 6th and 14th are mine mine mine too. :)

                                      1. re: Parnassien
                                        mangeur Jan 17, 2014 06:47 AM

                                        Understood. We are cemented to the confluence of buses 24, 27, 39, 68, 69 and 95. We've "lived" there for 25 years.

                            2. re: Parnassien
                              r
                              robodog Jan 16, 2014 01:47 PM

                              p.s. last week I bought a Chardonnay Savagnin from Arbois (was curious about other savagnin wines). I found it remarkably similar to the Vin Jaune, and a better value - 12E vs 32E (and a full-size bottle).

                              Ciao chow

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