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Savings in picking bubbles...

tim irvine Dec 13, 2013 05:59 PM

I like Champagne and sparkling wine that has some roundness and depth, like Billecart Rose. I love old Vintage Krug. I don't drink a lot of Champagne, and so I don't have a lot of knowledge or other frame of reference other than to say most of what I have tried has an almost metallic, and unappealing, taste. No interest in a Moët NV or the like. Any suggestions at prices under $75? Lower is better, because if I like it I'll drink it more often.

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  1. p
    plaidbowtie RE: tim irvine Dec 13, 2013 06:12 PM

    Pierre Peters Cuvee De Reserve BdB does the job for me, and retails $50-60

    1. Gussie Finknottle RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 07:18 AM

      Not much to go on here. One rose and an old vintage Krug.

      So, one thing to do would be to age Champagne yourself. Buy now and keep for 5+ years, that will change and - since you like it aged - improve the taste. You can buy inexpensive and get a more expensive taste by having them aged

      Rose is going to have Pinot, I think the Krug has a high proportion of Pinot, so suggest looking for blanc de noirs or wines with mostly pinots and avoiding blanc de blancs.

      You dismiss Moet 'or the like'. Does that mean all NV or only large brands?

      Look for artisan growers, small scale production. But avoiding NV is a mistake in my opinion.

      Also, why don't you drink a lot of Champagne? Best way to learn your likes is to drink more frequently. Maybe half-bottles to use as aperitif

      2 Replies
      1. re: Gussie Finknottle
        tim irvine RE: Gussie Finknottle Dec 14, 2013 10:05 AM

        Thanks to all who have posted so far. I don't drink a lot of Champagne because I have had chiefly lousy experiences with big house NVs. I have found them tinny and just not interesting. While I'll readily admit the B-S rose and the old Krug were very different, they both had that ineffable sensation of being delicious, absolutely no inaccessible or offensive dimension, and actually a lot of layers and subtleties. I don't have a super big wine budget and am loathe to gamble on any wine nudging a hundred bucks. Heck, that us TWO spectacular PNs or cabs or a half case of Domaine Chandon Blanc d'noir, which is festive and tasty but not what I'd call complex. The question was prompted by a holiday driven desire to try some new Champagne but avoid a bad purchase, I am not turned off by all NVs. I have enjoyed Veuves. I just don't drink enough to know.

        Or I could just hunker down with a top drawer Zin or that aging BV cab that is not young to be improving from here on out. I am intrigued by the idea of aging my own sparklers. I love the slightly tamer fizz and the more developed tones of honey I have experienced a couple of times. However, I am wondering for Champagnes is there a ball park optimal age range? A friend brought a PJ Fleur that was about twelve, and it was really sad. It is in the white wine vinegar crock, starting a new life.

        1. re: tim irvine
          z
          zin1953 RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 10:38 AM

          Tim, no one is suggesting that you go out and spend $100; indeed, I can't remember the last time I spent more than $100 on a bottle of Champagne . . . even for "special occasions"!

          It's interesting that you have enjoyed Veuve Clicquot -- at least I'm assuming you meant Clicquot when you wrote "Veuves"; there are *several* Champagnes named "Veuve," but most people mean Clicquot -- and did not enjoy Moët, from the standpoint that, although stylistically different, they are BOTH owned by the same parent company. This is what I was trying to get at when I asked you about Moët and what you meant specifically.

          Serious suggestions:

          1) Try, if you have not already, Roederer Estate Brut from Anderson Valley AVA, here in California. The wine tends to be rounder and fuller than, say, Chandon Brut from California.

          2) Buy a couple of bottles of Chandon Brut from California and cellar them for 2-3 years. (The fact this is more austere than Roederer Estate in its youth means it actually ages well.)

          3) Also try Domaine Carneros from California and Argyle from Oregon.

          4) In terms of "true" Champagne, with the obvious admonition that I have no idea what's available in Austin, you may want to look for (aside from the Serge Mathieu), Charles de Cazanove, De Sousa, Fallet-Dart, Gosset, Charles Heidsieck . . .

      2. z
        zin1953 RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 09:35 AM

        Random thoughts, Tim . . .

        First and foremost, go shopping! Go to the top retailer(s) in Austin, explain (hopefully in a bit more detail) what you're looking for, and try their suggestions. Not only should you receive some knowledgable help and advice, but the recommendations will actually be things you can buy!

        Secondly, as Gussie said, there's "not much to go on" in your post. You make four specific statements:

        >>> "I like Champagne and sparkling wine that has some roundness and depth, like Billecart Rose." <<<

        To me, this is oxymoronic, as I consider Billecart-Salmon n.v. Brut Rosé to be delicate and sublime, rather than rich and with great depth.

        >>> "I love old Vintage Krug." <<<

        Well, THERE is your roundness and depth! And there are certainly rosé Champagnes that have it as well, but I wouldn't say that Billecart's n.v. Brut Rosé -- which is one of my favorites, by the way -- as one of them.

        >>> "No interest in a Moët NV or the like." <<<

        This is certainly a specific statement, but I have no idea what it means. Are all Moët wines off-limits? All Champagnes owned by LVMH? All Brut n.v. wines in general? Any wine produced by a négociant-manipulant (NM)?

        If the latter, then both Billecart and Krug are off-limits to you. If it's LVMH wines, then Krug is off-limits. If it's Brut n.v. wines, then the non-vintage Billecart is off limits, but nor their vintage-dated Brut Rosé "Elizabeth Salmon Cuvée;" the non- (multi-)vintage Krug Grand Cuvée is off-limits, but not their vintage-dated Brut. Then again, the E.S. Cuvée and the vintage Krug are both outside your budgetary limitations.

        I'll make one suggestion and suggest you look for Champagnes from Serge Mathieu, but that's based upon the aforementioned suggestion from Gussie that you look to Blancs de Noirs. But in order to *truly* be of assistance, I fear we need more elaboration from you . . .

        1. d
          DavidT RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 09:58 AM

          The NY Times did a tasting of Champagnes earlier this month:

          http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/11/din...

          1. SteveTimko RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 02:57 PM

            A sparkling vintage Vouvray from Foreau or Huet.

            1. c
              Chefpaulo RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 03:23 PM

              Perplexing post, Tim. You claim to have limited knowledge yet specific tastes. I agree with zin1953 that you need to expand your horizons.
              My bro' knows Josh Wesson and says he's the guru of the best and reasonably-priced. Check out bestcellars dot com.
              CP

              1 Reply
              1. re: Chefpaulo
                tim irvine RE: Chefpaulo Dec 14, 2013 06:16 PM

                Thanks all. Sorry to be perplexing. I actually have not had a great range of experience with Champagne and have the misfortune to have had two pricey ones I really liked and a few less pricey but still not cheap ones that made me wonder what people saw in it. I have had a number of US sparkling wines and thought they were fun, fairly simple wines. I guess I will just start trying some of these suggestions.

              2. maria lorraine RE: tim irvine Dec 14, 2013 04:53 PM

                This is a repeat post of mine, from the recent thread titled:

                Best value oriented champagne/sparkling wine under $50

                http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/924247

                I reference K&L Wines in San Francisco, but the list and asterisked bubbles can help you shop for a wine that has that depth in flavor you're seeking no matter where you are.

                ...

                My palate still prefers the toasty brioche and yeasty flavors of Champagne, so here are some that I love. I've also included some domestic sparkling wines that I like.

                All of these wines are full bottles (750 ml) and currently in stock at K&L Wines. I'm sure there's a comparable store where you are. http://www.klwines.com/content.asp?N=...

                Champagne
                Piper-Heidsieck Brut Champagne $30
                Heidsieck Monopole "Blue Top" Brut Champagne $30
                Pommery "Brut Royal" Champagne $30
                Laurent-Perrier Brut Champagne $32 **
                Gosset "Brut Excellence" Champagne $38 ****
                Louis Roederer "Brut Premier" Champagne $39
                Perrier Jouët "Grand Brut" Champagne $40
                2007 Ariston Aspasie Brut Champagne $40
                2005 Amaury Coutelas Vintage Brut Champagne $40 ***
                Billecart-Salmon "Brut Reserve" Champagne $45 ***
                Pommery Rosé Brut Champagne $50
                Charles Heidsieck "Brut Reserve" Champagne $50 ****
                2004 Daniel Ginsburg "Cuvée Rene Millesime" Brut Blanc de Blancs Champagne $50 ****

                Domestic Sparkling Wine
                Gruet New Mexico Blanc Noirs Sparkling Wine $16 **
                -- I'm not fond of the other Gruet sparklers --
                2009 Domaine Carneros Brut $20
                J Vineyards "Cuvée 20" Sparkling Wine $25
                Domaine Chandon "Etoile" Brut $25
                2009 Schramsberg Blanc de Noirs Sparkling Wine $30
                2010 Schramsberg Blanc de Blancs Brut Sparkling $30 **

                1 Reply
                1. re: maria lorraine
                  tim irvine RE: maria lorraine Dec 14, 2013 06:18 PM

                  Yes...toasty and brioche! Sounds good. I will try a few of these!

                2. t
                  TombstoneShadow RE: tim irvine Dec 15, 2013 11:00 AM

                  You have long lists of candidates in this thread...

                  I would add Ruinart BdB NV... if you're looking for a well-made BdB from a house with access to great chardonnay vineyards it's a excellent choice at the upper end of your $20-50 price range.

                  Two others to try: The Guiborat NV line (which includes some very nicely-sourced grapes) and Pascal Doquet NVs , also in your price range.

                  Enjoy.

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