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Desperately seeking salty pie crust

h
helena143 Nov 16, 2013 08:16 PM

I have tried almost every pie crust known to man: butter, lard, crisco, combo butter/crisco, vinegar, vodka, egg, baking powder, buttermilk, etc. and I am never satisfied with the taste of the crust.

I am not talking about tenderness or flakiness. But TASTE.

Am I wrong in expecting pie crust to be salty? I am NOT expecting it to be over-salted, mind you. But salty enough to resemble a pastry shop crust. I thought pie crust is supposed to taste like salted butter so that the saltiness of the crust contrasts with the sweetness of the sweet pie filling (whether it's apple pie or pecan pie or pumpkin or whatever). I don't know if this is a matter of using salted butter (all the recipes say use UNSALTED butter), adding more salt, or using a recipe that omits sugar (all of them seem to require sugar).

Any pie experts in Chowland who can solve this mystery?

By the way, I recall reading a cookbook where it said that the "fad" of using unsalted butter in all baked goods usually results in an under-salted (and UNDER-FLAVORED) product. I am gonna see if I cam remember who said that. However I always follow recipes to a TEE and I have been using unsalted butter in all crust recipes.

  1. j
    julesrules Nov 16, 2013 08:26 PM

    Now this is where I just start experimenting. Add 1/4 tsp salt to your favourite recipe and go from there. I understand wanting to test the original recipe, but if they all have unsatisfactory saltiness, why keep trying the same salt : flour ratio over and over? I mean if you want I can post one of the standard recipes with extra salt added...then you can say you followed a recipe.
    I do whole-heartedly agree that under salted baking is a travesty.

    1. ipsedixit Nov 16, 2013 08:27 PM

      There's no reason not to use either salted butter, or just to add salt if you are using unsalted butter to begin with.

      Most bakers that I know default to using unsalted butter for most baking applications because it's all about control. They like to control the flavor and salinity quotient.

      If you want more salt, use more salt. No magic. No secret.

      1 Reply
      1. re: ipsedixit
        Savour Nov 17, 2013 11:18 AM

        I like my baked goods on the salty side and almost always use salted butter. I suppose I could just add more salt but I've never had any complaints.

      2. Caitlin McGrath Nov 16, 2013 08:29 PM

        I don't expect pie crust to be salty, and am happy with one made with unsalted butter and an average amount of salt. (And it's much more important to me that the filling not be overly sweet, to my taste.) That said, if you like other aspects of a particular recipe (texture, handling, etc.) but find it lacks salt to your taste, add more salt.

        1. a
          autumm Nov 16, 2013 08:31 PM

          I use salted butter and then rarely add salt. Taste taste taste.

          You can make up your starter crust, then add a bit of salt, bake a bit of it off (like a mini cookie) and taste. Repeat till you get to where you like, and remember how much salt you added/write it down. I always taste a bit of the dough before rolling out just to be sure

          13 Replies
          1. re: autumm
            h
            helena143 Nov 16, 2013 08:52 PM

            Well I'm a little concerned now that my expectations are wrong. Why is it that most pie crust in stores or bake shops are on the salty side, and most recipes are not?
            Have these commercial pies conditioned me to expect all crusts to be salty? And when I make crust at home it tastes under- flavored?

            1. re: helena143
              a
              autumm Nov 16, 2013 09:35 PM

              Make what you want to eat. If you prefer a slightly salty crust, that's fine. Perhaps as you find a home made version with a saltiness you prefer, the store bought ones will seem TOO salty. Which is my current situation. I usually use a mixture of lard and the Costco butter, so the salt level is consistent for me.

              Pie crust for me is a technique instead of a recipe. If it's a humid day, things are different, so I look at my product and use the recipe as a guideline. I usually work with Kenji's from Serious Eats/CI, but not always. I just wish I would have known to ask my grandmother her crust recipe before she died. All I know was "lard" That info with her pie pan doesn't help me too much

              1. re: helena143
                j
                julesrules Nov 17, 2013 08:47 AM

                I haven't noticed commercial pie crusts are saltier, but of course mass produced food is typically saltier and sweeter. I can definitely see the advantage of salty crust with sweeter fillings. With something like pumpkin pie, though, not sure it would help since the filling is already not too sweet and with a savoury element. With apple and a lot of my other favourite fruit pies, the flavour balance is about sweet and sour, and I'm not sure how much salt is needed there (but always some, of course!).
                Now with over the top sweet fillings like pecan pie or the Canadian classic butter tart, a salty crust goes a loooonnggg way. And recipes do need to be chosen carefully (a butter tart with a bland crust is just sweetness, no complexity, yuck).
                Anything with graham cracker crust has plenty of salt from the commercial crackers, I suspect. And cream cheese has lots of salt so those cheesecake type of pies have that.
                Sorry for my earlier slightly snarky post, I had a few beers last night. And now you have me thinking in a more productive way.

                1. re: julesrules
                  l
                  luvcubs Nov 17, 2013 09:02 AM

                  I added Kosher salt to a graham cracker crust recipe for cheesecake.... and it was AWESOME! It's become my new crust for cheesecakes.

                  I haven't tried it with other types of pies, but I bet with a chocolate/nut pie, it would work.

                  I love the salty/sweet combo.

                  1. re: luvcubs
                    s
                    sandylc Nov 17, 2013 10:21 AM

                    They put pretzels in with the graham crax for their cheesecake crust on the Chew last week.

                    1. re: sandylc
                      h
                      helena143 Nov 17, 2013 11:29 AM

                      Thanks everyone for your advice. I think what I am going to do is use salted butter and reduce the salt amount add to the recipe and see how that goes.

                      1. re: helena143
                        C. Hamster Nov 17, 2013 12:20 PM

                        Sounds like you'll be right back where you started.

                        Simply add more salt.

                        1. re: helena143
                          s
                          sedimental Nov 17, 2013 12:42 PM

                          I am also confused...why don't you just add more salt?

                          I find that about 1 tsp for a 2 cup flour ratio is fairly salty using salted butter. Why would you use salted butter, then REDUCE the salt? That doesn't make sense.

                          1. re: sedimental
                            h
                            helena143 Nov 17, 2013 01:57 PM

                            because I am afraid of adding too much salt

                            i am thinking of doing salted butter plus 1/4 teaspoon salt

                            i may do this plus make another batch with unsalted butter and increased salt and see which one i like better

                            1. re: helena143
                              hotoynoodle Nov 17, 2013 02:32 PM

                              keep the amount of salt in your recipe but also use salted butter. before the dough comes completely together taste it. then you can still add even more salt and still work the dough.

                              1/4 tsp is totally a drop in the bucket.

                              1. re: helena143
                                k
                                kariin Nov 17, 2013 03:00 PM

                                ?? it's pie crust FGS. Do you think there are 'pie crust police' waiting for you if you make a 'mistake'? Oops, maybe your internal critic is alive and well - so many of us have one, me too.

                                Autumn had the practical suggestion: make a batch, with salted butter, divide into X amounts. Leave one untouched add increasing (by 1/4 tsp.) kosher salt to each. Use a different cut-out form for each and write it down (circle = 1/4, triangle = 1/2). Keep tasting till it seems good. Taste it.

                                sedi mental and sandylc below and others have solid observations.

                                Mario Batali said it best (bluntly) to a visitor on his old Molto show who asked why his cooking wasn't as tasty/good as M's:
                                "your food doesn't taste (like mine) because you don't use enough salt, it has too much water in it and you're scared of
                                browning/heat".

                                Taste.

                                1. re: helena143
                                  s
                                  sedimental Nov 17, 2013 04:25 PM

                                  That won't be enough salt. Like I said, look at recipes with 1 tsp of salt. Go from there. You already know that 1/4 tsp is too little...why keep making the same mistakes?

                                2. re: sedimental
                                  C. Hamster Nov 17, 2013 02:07 PM

                                  I'm confused, too. There is a very simple solution here.

                    2. s
                      sedimental Nov 16, 2013 09:16 PM

                      I prefer lard crusts with salt. Flakey, dry and "short"... light salt when you lick your lips :) They are "old fashioned" tasting to me. I like a butter/lard mix too. I think the old recipes using some lard may contain more salt.

                      I think modern American pie crusts have devolved into being overly sweet, overly moist, flabby, and bland. I use the same pie crust for sweet and savory pies. I don't like sugar in a sweet pie crust either.

                      1. s
                        sandylc Nov 16, 2013 09:34 PM

                        One way to produce a crust with more flavor is to brown it adequately. Many people under bake their crusts, producing bland, pasty flavors rather than rich, caramelized flavors.

                        By all means add more salt, too...

                        1. hill food Nov 16, 2013 09:39 PM

                          "I always follow recipes to a TEE"
                          well there's your first mistake.

                          #2 is trying ALL these different recipes and not just adding a little salt. just a pinch, then taste a pinch of the dough and maybe add more. just be aware iodized salt can make a dough (or any dish) bitter.

                          salt will really only affect flavor, not the dough. so take the one you like the most and start playing with that.

                          sorry to sound snarky but if you're willing to try making pie dough using so many different methods and shortenings, how did adding salt just not happen? but I love salt. I find it hard to not add it to everything.

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: hill food
                            hotoynoodle Nov 17, 2013 07:23 AM

                            am scratching my head here too. i add salt to every baked good i make, regardless of whether the recipe calls for it, having learned that lack of salt leads to a flatter flavor.

                            however, i don't think of bake shop pie crusts as "salty".

                          2. m
                            magiesmom Nov 17, 2013 03:52 AM

                            If you want more salt, add it.

                            2 Replies
                            1. re: magiesmom
                              C. Hamster Nov 17, 2013 09:31 AM

                              Yes. Just add some/more salt

                              1. re: magiesmom
                                s
                                sandylc Nov 17, 2013 10:22 AM

                                Yup. (Scratching head)

                              2. HillJ Nov 17, 2013 08:54 AM

                                Maybe your taste buds have changed and you're not getting the same salt kick you once did.

                                Too salty would ruin the pie for me but I don't like sweet crusts either. The only way to try to capture that taste you're looking for is to experiment with bake times and salt level.

                                1. y
                                  youareabunny Nov 17, 2013 09:39 AM

                                  Try more salt or go for savory like ground nuts or dry cheese

                                  5 Replies
                                  1. re: youareabunny
                                    c
                                    chez cherie Nov 17, 2013 09:44 AM

                                    or pretzels. just read a recipe for a cheesecake with a pretzel crust. i'm a big "salt with sweet" person, so even though i don't love cheesecake (just cheese--no cake), that caught my attention--and might catch yours!

                                    1. re: chez cherie
                                      hotoynoodle Nov 17, 2013 10:16 AM

                                      i've made pretzel crusts before and they are great, both with cheesecakes and brownies.

                                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                                        s
                                        sedimental Nov 17, 2013 11:08 AM

                                        I always see the cheescake pretzel crusts made with half graham crackers/half pretzel. Have you made a cheesecake with all pretzel?

                                        My daughter is gluten free, loves salted caramel and cheesecake, and I want to make her a special cheesecake for Christmas using all GF pretzels (they are supposed to taste good).

                                        This one, to be specific:

                                        http://thekitchykitchen.blogspot.com/...

                                        1. re: sedimental
                                          hotoynoodle Nov 17, 2013 11:54 AM

                                          yup, have made all pretzel. just whiz with melted butter and sugar.

                                          honestly, i prefer these types of alternative crusts anyway.

                                      2. re: chez cherie
                                        y
                                        youareabunny Nov 17, 2013 10:49 AM

                                        My inner fat kid thanks you.

                                    2. b
                                      BangorDin Nov 17, 2013 10:27 AM

                                      The very very slight porky taste I get from crust made with butter and my home-rendered lard is satisfying to me. I wouldn't recognize it as porky unless I knew what it was, it would just seem slightly savory.

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: BangorDin
                                        tcamp Nov 18, 2013 06:40 AM

                                        I use bacon fat and butter in my crusts - very tasty.

                                      2. greygarious Nov 17, 2013 11:48 AM

                                        Better bakers/bakeries use unsalted butter not only in order to control the amount of salt (because this varies according to brand) but also because since salt is a preservative, when you buy salted butter you may be buying something that is not as fresh (or made from cream as fresh) as unsalted.

                                        If you are making quiche or certain fruit pies, putting grated cheddar or gruyere into the crust makes an extra-flavorful crust without adding salt, since cheese itself is salty.

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