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Speechless.......Yes even I can be speechless........Anti-Gay patrons at Carraba's

As outspoken some of you might have thought I was in trying to petition for some understanding in the Barrilla thread, I will be the first to say, this is unacceptable in our society. Absolutely ridiculous, if your belief's are this strong than you simply need to stay home.


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  1. What they did is awful, but what angers me about it almost more than anything else is the fact that they are doing this in the name of God?

    The perverted use of Christianity and God's name is the most disgusting thing about this. Those people wouldn't recognize Jesus if he turned their bathtub water into wine while they were bathing in it...

    1. Well. It's Kansas, after all. And god. God makes every behavior excusable.

      6 Replies
      1. re: linguafood

        LINGUA!!! (yes all cap's cause I'm yelling at you)

        You were ready to hand me my head on a plate for trying to use the "It's Italy" explanation on Barrilla, but because this is Kansas you have more understanding?? Really??

        1. re: jrvedivici

          Dude. There's a whole book about Kansas that makes quite a few valid points.

          I'm not personally excusing anyone's assy behavior for any reasons.

          1. re: linguafood

            If you don't mind enlightening me, a book regarding Kansas and their anti gay views?

        2. re: linguafood

          I'm from Kansas. In fact this restaurant is just a few blocks from where I used to live. I don't appreciate the generalization. There are those that prejudge everywhere. Chowhound too, apparently.

          1. re: chileheadmike

            yeah it's Overland Park, a fairly comfortable suburb of KC where you wouldn't expect such behavior. in this part of the world you can't equate the urban centers with the stereotype of the outlands.

            yet I lived a number of years out in the Flint Hills and rarely encountered such bile.

            assholes occur everywhere.

        3. How exactly did the diners know their server was gay?

          3 Replies
            1. re: gaffk

              Sometimes, it's obvious. And after reading the story, I don't see any denials from the waiter that he's NOT gay.

              NB: I said SOMETIMES.

              1. re: mwk

                You're right.

                Sometimes it's very obvious. Many times quite deliberately.

                And if he were not gay it likely would have been mentioned in the article.

            2. How exactly did these restaurant customers know his sexual orientation?

              11 Replies
              1. re: JAB

                To my knowledge Richard Simmons has never made any announcements, but I'd take that bet.

                1. re: jrvedivici

                  I wouldn't. I went to school with guys who seemed much more feminine than I. They are, for the most part, married to women and have kids. Likewise I've known some pretty masculine-seeming women who are married to men and have kids.

                  I have learned to never make such assumptions based on appearances/mannerisms.

                  1. re: gaffk

                    Having worked in the Hospitality business my entire life....I would not say never.

                  2. re: jrvedivici

                    That he's gay....or made any announcements?

                    1. re: fourunder

                      That he is gay. Obviously I don't know for sure.

                    2. re: jrvedivici

                      I'd never make that leap. Could be an effeminate hetero or they could be effeminately asexual.

                      1. re: JAB

                        That's why I said I'd make a bet, a bet is NOT a guarantee. I didn't say Richard Simmons is gay, I just said in my OPINION his public persona would lead me to assume he is.

                        That is most likely how these customers ASSUMED the waiter was gay, which was your original question.

                      2. re: jrvedivici

                        I'd bet he is equally attracted to chubby housewives.

                    3. I think we are supposed to hate the sin, but love the sinner. This was just pure hate, an example of worrying about the splinter in someones eye instead of the telephone pole in your own. And if this is hardwired into genes, it surely needs to be rethought.

                      17 Replies
                      1. re: Nanzi

                        "hate the sin, but love the sinner" excellent example of what a true Christian should be. Not these idiots.

                        1. re: jrvedivici

                          As painful as that is to accept, it's probably what can be best expected.

                            1. re: karenfinan

                              I'm pretty sure they are referencing the diners, not the server.

                                1. re: youareabunny

                                  Oh dear god in fucking heaven, really? I would be ashamed to have any bullshit reason to condone thinking that

                                  1. re: karenfinan

                                    I like turning the "hate the sin" phrase on the cretins, not the waiter, but used in this context even if the customers considered him a hell-bound wretch, they should still offer him, if not love then, dignity and respect.

                                    1. re: karenfinan

                                      Just going off of what I've read. Are we reading the same book?

                                      1. re: youareabunny

                                        Well, this is not a religion forum, so I'll let this be my last post on the subject, but that book also condones slavery, stoning to death a woman who is not a virgin at time of marriage, not eating shellfish, or wearing clothes of blended materials, so I don't think using it as a guide for your bigotry holds water

                                        1. re: karenfinan

                                          Hmmm. I think we're having an error in communication here.

                                          As in, from what I understand about "hate the sin, not the sinner" is that the bible teaches against the act not the person. So, that's why when you asked "how is being gay a sin?" I responded "the bible."

                                          I'm agnostic, probably atheist. So, I was alluding to what reasoning others' who do not share my pro LGBTQ/humankind views have. It seems to me it's usually either religious or just plain ignorance. But usually religious

                                          1. re: youareabunny

                                            I getcha bunny, one can consider (harmless) acts a mortal sin, yet still be cordial and even warm to the poor damned soul (exaggerating for effect). what it comes down to is: if one thinks it's such a horrible thing, either don't leave the house lest you encounter 'others' (black, gay, Muslim, Jewish, Finnish or gasp! all of the above) or just keep your yap shut, no children have been hurt and it's not your immortal soul in question to consider.

                                            1. re: hill food

                                              I agree. I find it sad that anyone could view anyone with such a label, but in the least they can STFU, better yet treat them as they'd treat anyone else, and if they must - pray for them. :)

                              1. re: Nanzi

                                Being Gay is a sin?... I would want no part of that religion!

                                1. re: karenfinan

                                  karen - only in the old testament and only in a few verses out of thousands that are open to wide interpretation.

                                  as an agnostic (who actually reads and comprehends) I have an attic full of evangelicals who ought to remember better that by becoming a "Christian" the old testament is to be considered superceded and only alluded to as a historic (definition pending) document yet are more than happy to quote Leviticus etc, even when in contradiction of the gospels we have today, which have no comment whatsoever.

                                  it's a big mishpocka.

                              2. How the heck do idiots like that hold down jobs and function in society? Totally unacceptable.

                                1 Reply
                                1. re: MsDiPesto

                                  You're assuming that they have jobs, dear MsD. ;-)

                                  And I think we all know how they 'function' in society.

                                2. Kansas is the American version of Afghanistan: lots of poor people with guns and extreme religious beliefs. Christians, like Muslims, are perfectly OK people. In most other places.

                                  8 Replies
                                    1. re: emu48

                                      But all Kansans are poor, gun loving nuts?

                                      Got it.

                                      1. re: chileheadmike

                                        we can't gang up on Kansas (and Kansas City in this case) over on the other side of Missouri in STL (another place that should know better) my parents were out with friends and while they didn't behave like assholes, when they got home all they could talk about for a few days after was how 'flame-y' their waiter was. "was his behavior on purpose? was he trying to make a point? is that normal?"

                                        yeesh, an effeminate gay waiter, that'd be a first - get out of the house more.

                                        1. re: hill food

                                          <edit> mike - "poor, gun loving nuts? "

                                          over here in central MO that's about ALL we have. poor, gun loving nuts, but decent and not raging assholes (mostly). folks (well hillbillies really - and that's said with more than a bit of odd respect) are a lot cooler than given credit. I found the same during my time in KS.

                                          gladly wackjobs like these are the exception, not the rule. maybe the couple was from Westboro Baptist and busted out of the compound for the afternoon but didn't leave their values behind (just be glad they didn't make it any farther)


                                          1. re: hill food

                                            I got my panties in a twist.
                                            1st because these arsewholes are from my home and they give my home a bad name.
                                            2nd because people believe the stereotype and propagate it on this site.

                                            I am very proud of my state. And proud of our civil rights history. Kansas was fighting against bigotry well before the rest of the nation joined in. These idiots overshadow our proud history of equal rights, begun in the 1850's.


                                            1. re: chileheadmike

                                              KU's teams didn't get the name of 'Jayhawks' for nothing. (and I say that with respect even though I was K-State)

                                              OT - but there's a LOT more to the largely overlooked states than people realize.

                                              1. re: chileheadmike

                                                I would agree with you, except that people don't do things like that unless they think their beliefs are acceptable in the community. That's what you see all over the place now: the political and religious climate emboldens people to say things in public they would have been ashamed to say five years ago.

                                                1. re: chileheadmike

                                                  mike - hey over in your neck of the woods I just read something about Mound Island State Park in Bates County MO (just across the border), a battlefield that saw for the first time in the Civil war an all-black regiment in battle - go Jayhawkers!

                                        2. So now people get to use their religious beliefs to justify not paying people for the work they do?

                                          I read this study just yesterday, that says in pertinent part: "[Higher levels of dishonesty among] those for whom religion was more important to their lives is surprising, ... as most religions promote honesty as a virtue. It may be that students for whom religion was important feel separate from other students at this largely secular university, and thus feel less compelled to be honest with them." The history of the world demonstrates that all you have to do is define someone as "not one of us" to justify treating them in a way that you would otherwise consider immoral.


                                          4 Replies
                                          1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                            Well, the bible's full of "not one of us" passages, and what to do with those people. Not much of a surprise, really.

                                            1. re: linguafood

                                              Heh. In college I took a religion class "On Violence." Reading list started with the Old Testament . . . lots of nastiness there.

                                              1. re: gaffk

                                                It's funny that the same people who want to ban books from schools because of their sexual content want to put the Bible in schools, when the Bible is full of sex, including rape and prostitution!

                                                1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                  Not to mention incest.

                                                  But I believe these good Christians ignore the OT and just concentrate on the New (you know . . .the one that focuses on charity, mercy, acceptance ;)

                                          2. Folks, this is obviously one of those topics that invites outrage, but can we try to stay on topic and keep the angry generalizations about Kansans, Christians and Kansas Christians down to a minimum, please? They really don't add much to the conversation, and they're already dragging this off the rails.

                                            1 Reply
                                            1. re: The Chowhound Team

                                              I'm glad this thread came to a grinding screeching halt for now.Thank you.

                                            2. So they Couldn't enjoy a meal and pay what they owe, they absolutely had to fight the good fight.

                                              1. I am a lutheran right wing conservative that was born and bred in Palm Springs ca. My 18 year old son came out to us recently. It make me realize how insulated drom the rest of the country

                                                I edit because we arent having a problem with it. As much as i realize how my small town relatives are going to

                                                23 Replies
                                                    1. re: Goatjunky

                                                      Wonderful to read :). I've heard of so many instances when sons and daughters who have come out become disowned... so wasn't sure what to expect in your instance. It must be an eye opener?

                                                      1. re: youareabunny

                                                        I feel like its probably not the right forum for it, but i could say so much. And just for the odd cooking ref on topic. My 92 year old grandfather thinks i made him gay by making him cook fancy food. Lol

                                                        1. re: Goatjunky

                                                          I think it's valuable to the conversation considering you, like the couple in the article, are religious and you have dealt with homosexuality in another way. Maybe you were shocked as the couple were.

                                                          Next time you cook for grandpa, fold some cloth napkin swans :).

                                                          1. re: youareabunny

                                                            Funny thing is, he cooks moose, cans tuna, can make aableskiver and a mean chile verde. Not even sure you decide what makes him fancy. I just hate the gay on sight thing. So not true.

                                                            I realize im going off thread. Sorry

                                                              1. re: Goatjunky

                                                                "I just hate the gay on sight thing"

                                                                sadly, many have to be reminded that ya ain't gotta be gay to get gay-bashed.

                                                                1. re: Goatjunky

                                                                  " I just hate the gay on sight thing. So not true."

                                                                  Let me try to gently explain to you why it's often true.

                                                                  I'm gay, btw, have been out for 30 years, successful and happy and moderately active in the community.

                                                                  There are lots of folks in the LGTBQ community who try to be "gay on sight" for a reason. They want to be noticed as being gay. They don't want to blend in. They are making their statement with their appearance/ behavior, etc.

                                                                  That's not me.

                                                                  But *hating* the "gay on sight" thing sort of disrespects those proud folks who WANT to be identified immediately as such.

                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                    I always thought simply not hiding "it" was a political statement in and of it's own.

                                                                    true there is value in being clearly visible and value in quietly ripping apart stereotypes as well.

                                                                    there are many paths to the Godhead I always say.

                                                                    1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                      Well maybe some don't blend in to blend in, they just like wearing more typical clothes? Some gay guys love the frills and feathers and others look like they're part of NWA.

                                                                      That's like me making sure I'm always wearing hello kitty so people know I'm Asian.

                                                                      I thought goat was referring to gay on sight as in, for some people there are a few signs that obviously make you gay.
                                                                      "He's wearing purple! Definitely gay"
                                                                      "He's eating a banana! What a fruit!"

                                                                      1. re: youareabunny

                                                                        "That's like me making sure I'm always wearing hello kitty so people know I'm Asian. "

                                                                        HA! a (mostly Japanese) friend in art school was teased by an instructor that for her ethnic studies studio "I know Kathy, you could make SHOJI SCREENS!"

                                                                        it was said as a joke and she appreciated someone was willing to say it.

                                                                      2. re: C. Hamster

                                                                        I think what i should have said.. is that i hate when people assume they can tell someone is gay just by looking. Gaydar. Not when someone is proudly being out

                                                                        1. re: Goatjunky

                                                                          That's what I thought you thought ;)

                                                                          1. re: Goatjunky

                                                                            So are you saying that "gaydar" works for you?

                                                                            1. re: c oliver

                                                                              it never does for me. If I assume something, then I assume I'm wrong and just STFU.

                                                                              1. re: hill food

                                                                                I met a gay guy at a club one night. He had a lisp, really nice clothes, and even a fancy made up name he chose for himself (Paul just wasn't doing it for him.) I was so excited to finally have a gay friend. Then a few hours later he's trying to kiss me and I was so confused.

                                                                                And try isn't even the correct word but I'll keep it at that.

                                                                                1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                  you really can't tell anymore. I had an amusing morning at work once explaining to my boss just what her son meant after he declared himself a 'metro-sexual'.

                                                                                2. re: Goatjunky

                                                                                  I can often tell if someone is gay just by looking but I've had 30+ years of practice.

                                                                                  Don't be irked when someone assumes someone else is gay simply because of their appearance. There's nothing wrong with being gay, after all. No harm no foul.

                                                                                  Still, I appreciate your point.

                                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                    "No harm no foul."

                                                                                    up and until you get the shit kicked out of you.

                                                                                    I just leave it all at the level of 'hunch' until further notice. safer that way and costs nothing.

                                                                2. I am a bit surprised that this is shocking or as outrageous as it appears to be to people.

                                                                  Get out and around enough in the world, you realize there are as many ignorant and hateful people as there are kind and wonderful people.

                                                                  Just because people on Chowhound all generally appear to be civilized and decent folks, it doesn't mean the rest of the world is any type of reflection of our own little ecosystem here.

                                                                  (As an aside, for those of us "hating" on these anti-gay customers, are *we* any better for hating on them, or hating on Kansas for that matter?)

                                                                  8 Replies
                                                                  1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                    I consider it disappointing, probably shocking, but definitely not surprising.

                                                                    1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                      "(As an aside, for those of us "hating" on these anti-gay customers, are *we* any better for hating on them"

                                                                      Sure. it's better to hate the KKK and their views than to be a member of the KKK and hate other races.

                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                        Some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around false equivalency.

                                                                          1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                            " but some Chowhounds are more equal than others"
                                                                            - apologies to George Orwell

                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                              No. Some are just better. By a lot.

                                                                              1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                                Yep, the top pig being those who hate the haters who hate the haters.

                                                                                1. re: chowser

                                                                                  This argument gets a bit circular with each additional revolution, no?

                                                                      2. Part of me kind of agrees with a comment I saw about this on another web site, that the wording of the supposed note seems a little fishy. Disclaimer, I'm gay myself, and used to work as a server as well. There is something about the way it was written that reads a little idealized or crafted. I've had people say stupid crap to me before, but they don't often mingle "f@g" or "f@ggot" with stuff like "god's love" and "homosexual", it's usually one or the other. It sounds to me more like he got stiffed on a tip, and perhaps "embellished" the check a bit in retaliation...just my 2 cents

                                                                        9 Replies
                                                                        1. re: Atomic76

                                                                          It appears that that the censored word was queer, then fag. I'll type it out because it's a hole in a barrel, I believe.

                                                                          Anyway I'll give benefit of the doubt and consider that he did in fact receive this. I doubt this is the first bad tip/no tip he's received so why would he do this now? 15 minutes of anti-gay fame?

                                                                          1. re: youareabunny

                                                                            A waitress a few weeks ago claimed she wasn't tipped by someone who wrote the "n word" on the check and has received over $10,000 from sympathetic people.

                                                                            The gay guy's timing is suspicious but that's counterbalanced by the restaurant's proximity to those Westboro scumbags(about an hour away). Writing something like that on the check seems just like something they would do.

                                                                            1. re: Chimayo Joe

                                                                              It's already been proven by two separate expert handwriting analysts that the supposed event you reference was not written by the cardholder....although he admits he did not tip.

                                                                              1. re: fourunder

                                                                                So what was his excuse for not tipping?

                                                                                1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                  Could it be lousy service?

                                                                                  I love the rush to judgement that is facilitated by the many social media outlets. Will the apparent falsification of the message receive the same amount of air time? Will the additional tips be returned?

                                                                                  Does being a minority give somebody a free pass at what appears to be fraud?

                                                                                  1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                    The order was changed for Take-Out....and apparently, the tables have turned on the waitress, who is now being sued by the customer.


                                                                                    1. re: fourunder

                                                                                      Suppose now they'll get to the bottom of it. It could have been her that wrote the comment, or even a co worker.

                                                                                      Reminds me of my mother who purchased a Luciano Pavarotti book for her SIL in the Philippines. When they were packing it, her cousin signed "to Tina. With love, Luciano" and apparently SIL shook when she saw the "autograph."

                                                                                      And I just shook my head.

                                                                                    2. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                      IIRC, they had placed their order then got a phone call that caused them to get it to go. I guess they didn't feel obligated to tip on take out. Seems like some kind of tip would have still been appropriate even if it were a reduced tip.

                                                                              2. re: Atomic76

                                                                                This sounds exactly like the works of the loony's at Westboro Baptist... I would be surprised if it wasn't one of their cult members. They use slang with positive words all the time. Especially b/c it appears that the restaurant is in Kansas.

                                                                              3. You left the second B out of Carrabba's. I still don't see any major news source covering this story. Including CNN.

                                                                                8 Replies
                                                                                1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                  I'm not sure this story moves the needle on the Richter scale of world events.

                                                                                  1. re: Veggo

                                                                                    I doesn't . CNN did have a piece on it on their website.

                                                                                    1. re: chileheadmike

                                                                                      Slow news day. That's a good thing more often than not.

                                                                                      1. re: chileheadmike

                                                                                        I stand corrected. I searched Carrabba's gay. But when I add CNN to the mix the article is buried in 5 examples of humans being amazing.

                                                                                        1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                          Humans are amazing in both benevolent and malevolent ways.

                                                                                        1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                          Indeed. On CH it is the equivalent of a nuclear attack.

                                                                                    2. jr, just stumbled on this. I remain appalled. And astounded that the company declined to comment on how they're going to handle it. That, to me, is what makes this CH-appropriate. How the hell ARE they going to handle this? If there's a she-god in heaven, somebody needs to be smited.

                                                                                      1. This is bad, but I will say that this is far from the worsts.

                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                          Does that mean it shouldn't be discussed?

                                                                                          1. My old question: What if I believe that God exists...but I just don't like Him?

                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                            1. re: mwhitmore

                                                                                              Depends, in some religions, it is acceptable, especially for polylithic religions In Christianity, it it not.

                                                                                            2. With Christians like these in society, I thank God I'm an athiest.

                                                                                              1. I don't understand how it's perfectly acceptable for Barilla's owner to speak up against gays and those who protest are called judgemental/intolerant/unaccepting but that this is wrong. You are the one who argued for acceptance of the owner's views. Speaking against gays is speaking against gays. Having a larger bullypulpit, as the Barilla owner has, is far worst because it reaches more people.

                                                                                                "Absolutely ridiculous, if your belief's are this strong than you simply need to stay home"

                                                                                                Unless you are running a world wide company, in which case such a view should be acceptable?

                                                                                                10 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: chowser

                                                                                                  Maybe because in this case, it's in "our society"?

                                                                                                  1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                    Regardless of location, the statement was:

                                                                                                    "I will choose to respect his opinions, even if they differ with mine, and when the tables are turned, I would hope someone would respect my opinion when it differs with their own."


                                                                                                    This most likely will be deleted but I'm trying to understand how this couple can be admonished but Barilla's owner who has similar views is respected.

                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                      Understandably. Maybe he holds America to a different standard. He did point out the lack of LGBTQ rights in Italy.

                                                                                                      Maybe it was the use of derogatory terms?

                                                                                                      But I agree. No consistency here.

                                                                                                  2. re: chowser

                                                                                                    Chowser…..I will try to explain the differences I see between these two cases for you. While you copy pasted (below) you conveniently leave out where I said, and will say again, I’m for equal rights, I’m anti discrimination, gay or otherwise. I do believe gay or straight should share the same legal rights when it comes to marriage etc. Live and let live is my exact philosophy.

                                                                                                    With regard to Barilla I didn't see his comments as much “anti-gay” as they were ignorant or “pro-straight”. He never admonished people for being gay, he stated he wouldn’t use a gay family in his advertising because it didn’t agree with or reflect his vision of a family, which was “traditional” with a woman /mother as the center figure.

                                                                                                    To be perfectly honest I don’t identify with a gay family as a traditional family either. I was raised in a two parent home with a mother and a father of opposite sex, to me that is traditional. Am I anti-gay because that is what relate to? If I were to see a TV commercial which represented a gay family would I relate to that? No. I would understand it, I wouldn't be offended by it, but I don’t relate to it. Does that make me a bad person? Am I anti-gay because I believe they should have the same rights I do but don’t directly identify with them? People are people and I accept people of the same sex can be in love and should be allowed to live legally and happily, but I don’t personally relate to it.

                                                                                                    His (Barilla) comments were regarding advertising for his company skewed by his personal views. If he had made comments such as “Gays are an abomination” – “We will never hire gays” – “We are an anti gay company” etc. I would view it as a direct threat, I just see a person, living in a far less progressive society, espousing views which I would expect reflect the majority his countrymen/women. I didn't find his comments threatening as much as antiquated and ignorant. The only person(s) that could lose by his comments are him and his company. He even said something to the extent if you don’t agree with this don’t purchase our product, which many people, gay and straight, took him up on. However, even in that thread there were a fair number of self admitted gay people who also said they have bigger fish to fry than this and were not protesting.

                                                                                                    Barilla’s words were only negatively affecting himself, his product and his company. I did not view his words as threatening in any manner.

                                                                                                    Contrary to this article where the people made a premeditated decision to “use” the server and then made a conscious effort to punish and admonish the server for their perceived bias of him being gay. The people could have easily asked for a different table, a different server or just left the restaurant if they were so “offended” by a gay server. If they felt it was such a sin against their God and their religion. But to sit there….allow the person to serve you, allow them to perform their services, which they expect to be compensated for, and then deny to provide them with their compensation is a much different scenario in my eyes. The words written on the check were words of hate and admonishment which I do not agree with AT ALL.

                                                                                                    Barilla not agreeing with the gay family image is not an expression of hate in my eyes where this example is a blatant act of hate to me. Again, I don’t agree with either of them, I just gave Barilla a little more slack, because I view it as ignorance over malice, this just reeks of malice.

                                                                                                    Regardless both are wrong; I never said anything to the contrary.

                                                                                                        1. re: fourunder

                                                                                                          Thanks Veggo & Four.....just trying to clear the air, obviously I'm a big believer in communication. Also thanks to the 9 "recommends" from various people.

                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                        Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I wasn't intending to vilify you, so I apologize if it came off that way. I was hoping to reconcile the two seemingly contradictory views which you did. While I don't have the same view as you, I understand where you're coming from.

                                                                                                        If I were to define a traditional marriage by what my parents have, it would be man/woman, same race, marriage based on status/goals and not love, man works, woman stays home to raise children (the purpose of the marriage). My view of traditional marriage varies from that and I see my siblings interracial marriage, sister to divorced man w/ child as traditional as theirs. Interracial, working wife, wife equal to husband, childless/childfree, homosexual, marriage based on love despite social status all fit under that for me. To deny that, to me, is to call their "otherness" and say they're not the same as everyone else and I don't think that's true. So, I see the owner of Barilla's words as that. Both discriminatory. If one of my children were to come out to me and get married, I'd see that marriage the same as the other and would hope that the world eventually would, too.

                                                                                                        1. re: chowser

                                                                                                          "I can understand where you're coming from"

                                                                                                          Those are the words we should all strive to hear from one and other on topics such as this. Where there is understanding there is room for improvement.


                                                                                                    1. It is appalling, but it's good that the server received a lot of community support. The publicity works against the message promoted by the diners her started this.

                                                                                                      1. OK. I assume you read the entire article? A pastor from a local church later came to the restaurant specifically to be served by the server in question. Also, lots of people rallied to the server's defense, so much so, he asked to be judged by the level of service he provides rather than by sympathy.

                                                                                                        It seems to me the takeaway is that one or two bigoted people are outnumbered by lots of other sympathetic people.

                                                                                                        And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the real reason the tip was not left was because the diners are cheap.

                                                                                                        10 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                          As I mentioned upthread, sue, I 'damn' the owner of the restaurant for not saying what their action(s) is going to be.

                                                                                                          1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                            Then why leave the note on the receipt?

                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                              I don't know. I think what they did is reprehensible. Cheap people justify their actions using their biases, I guess.

                                                                                                              It seems to me that lost in all of this is that plenty of Kansans have spoken out against the cheap "Christians" and in favor of letting the server have the dignity of doing a good job, with his deserved tips.

                                                                                                              1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                I know plenty of cheap family and friends. I watched my BFF flirt up the hottest bartender ever (basically leonidas from 300) and give him no tip. Nothing wrong with him or the drink, she's just ridiculously cheap.

                                                                                                                Don't get the couple in the article confused with cheap people.

                                                                                                            2. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                              <And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the real reason the tip was not left was because the diners are cheap.>

                                                                                                              It has to be more than just being cheap. If someone is cheap, he/she can just leave without paying the tip. There is no need to spend 2-4 min writing a note (offensive one at that too).

                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                Maybe I'm wrong, but I've know plenty of people who justify not paying out money by using a common prejudice. As I stated before, what they did was reprehensible.

                                                                                                                1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                  That is very sad. The few times I have given little/no tip was due to HORRIBLE service, and that's the only reason.

                                                                                                                  1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                    I don't disagree the couple (at least one of them) was being cheap, but I think the cheap(ness) part is the minor part. I think it is the anti-gay stance drove the cheapness, and not the cheapness drove the anti-gay.

                                                                                                                    What I mean is that the patron probably first have the idea of "I dislike gay lifestyle" and then decided that "I won't give him tip". I don't think it is the other way. In my mind, it is unlikely that he/she thought: "I don't want to pay the tip" and then "Ok, let me think why I should not pay the tip. Oh yes, he is gay. Let me write this down on a receipt"

                                                                                                                    I am far from a perfect person, so I don't mind putting myself in their shoes. I just think that if I am a very cheap guy and I want to avoid paying tip, then I would probably want to get out of the restaurant as fast and as quiet as possible. I don't think I would start writing a 90 words essay on a receipt. I think I have to feel quiet strongly about something to spend that time and energy.

                                                                                                                    <As I stated before, what they did was reprehensible.>

                                                                                                                    Absolutely, I don't doubt your position for one second. I know you have clearly stated that you disapprove this, and I have no reason not to believe you.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                      Could be. Or it could have been, "I don't like leaving tips, hey is that guy gay? Well, I'm definitely not leaving a tip for him."

                                                                                                                      But I've made my points here, and as much as I shake my head in disbelief, I have to disagree and move on.

                                                                                                                      1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                        :) I respect you. You know that. Let's move on and discuss another topic soon.

                                                                                                              2. interesting way to be self-righteously cheap. Reminds me of that "minister" a while back who wrote she wouldn't tip a server more than she gave to God.

                                                                                                                Did these people read that Bible they thump? They should look up "Pharisee". Also see "whited sepulchre"

                                                                                                                1. There are a few posts in this thread that this video can apply to. I'm just putting it here for anyone to watch that cares to. Personally I think this hits the nail on the head with what this topic is dealing with, people who skew their religious belief into a self fulfilling ideology which fuels their personal "agenda".

                                                                                                                  Being a life long Catholic and raising my children as Catholics "by default", I have to say I am so impressed with this Pope and his views. Breathing some fresh air into a stale and outdated society which needs to become more progressive in some of their views before they alienate an entire generation who are just going to turn their backs on the archaic policies.

                                                                                                                  To steer things back on a food topic topic, I understand the Pope is a huge fan of braised short ribs!!! He has been quoted as saying "Under cooking short ribs should be a sin"!


                                                                                                                  11 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                    I used to think he was "new" then I read all this about his statements being taken out of context, misconstrued etc.

                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                      Meaning his statements about being more open and understanding? If you can elaborate or provide reading material I would greatly appreciate it.

                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                        Pretty much, it seems the focus has been on his statement "Yes, though it wasn’t necessary to speak of it, but rather of the positive things that open up the path to young people. Isn’t that right! Besides, young people know [the churches standing] ". ((Didn't have a complete copy there, difficult on my phone)). ANYWAY... So people tend to read that as, rather than to focus on abortion, gay marriage the church needs to focus on teaching of Christ, love, brotherhood, etc.

                                                                                                                        But just before and after he explains it's well known the church's standing, it's not necessary to state it each time, just as he doesn't always discuss other sins.

                                                                                                                        Transcript: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/fra...

                                                                                                                        Patricia Zorzan:

                                                                                                                        Speaking on behalf of the Brazilians: society has changed, young people have changed, and in Brazil we have seen a great many young people. You did not speak about abortion, about same-sex marriage. In Brazil a law has been approved which widens the right to abortion and permits marriage between people of the same sex. Why did you not speak about this?

                                                                                                                        Pope Francis:

                                                                                                                        The Church has already spoken quite clearly on this. It was unnecessary to return to it, just as I didn’t speak about cheating, lying, or other matters on which the Church has a clear teaching!

                                                                                                                        Patricia Zorzan:

                                                                                                                        But the young are interested in this ...

                                                                                                                        Pope Francis:

                                                                                                                        Yes, though it wasn’t necessary to speak of it, but rather of the positive things that open up the path to young people. Isn’t that right! Besides, young people know perfectly well what the Church’s position is.

                                                                                                                        Patricia Zorzan:

                                                                                                                        What is Your Holiness’ position, if we may ask?

                                                                                                                        Pope Francis:

                                                                                                                        The position of the Church. I am a son of the Church.


                                                                                                                        So my point is, I think it isn't an issue of him being more open minded. As he said, he's son of the church, and the church's beliefs are clear. He just didn't want to talk about it at that moment.

                                                                                                                        And found another interview where he discussed gay priests. Basically he prefers a chaste gay priest than a promiscuous straight one. Something about gay acts being a sin, being gay is a wound. The usual "condemn the sin, not the sinner" spiel.

                                                                                                                        Only reason I vaguely know this is because I've got a few hardcore Catholics on my Facebook posting all kinds of stuff. As I said, I used to think the same about the pope.

                                                                                                                        Oh and ummm, back when I ate ribs I used to love them well cooked, too.

                                                                                                                    2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                      The thing is that the church, along with the gay pastor, as well as the hateful patron, all equate a man's effeminate manners with a "gay lifestyle" when they are not the same. The waiter can resist the homosexual urge and be "sinless" in the eyes of G*d and in complete compliance with the church teachings and yet he is rejected. This is why so many church-going gay teens commit suicide, because they feel there is no acceptance for them anywhere.

                                                                                                                      1. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                        <This is why so many church-going gay teens commit suicide>

                                                                                                                        I don't know if there are MANY committed suicide because of the church, but they should probably stop going to church. If anything, just to sleep a few more hours. Churches always make people wake up too early. I would consider suicide just because I have to wake up early.

                                                                                                                        1. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                          Well here is where I would say a portion of the blame for a teen suicide, based on church hypocrisy, is also a parents fault. If you know your child is struggling with their identity or sexuality then I feel it's your responsibility as a parent to shield them from influences which would make them feel further alienated.

                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                            Influences like the church?

                                                                                                                            It was a few years ago that a couple friends and I were at a local dive. Marines, karaoke, and cheap drinks, it doesn't get any better than that. So my friend saw a cute guy and chatted him up. I noticed he and his friends seemed a bit out of place. Turns out they were Mormon and had driven about 6 hours to get here. My friend proceeded to buy them all shots - jäger- , then when we went out for a smoke so did they - about 6 guys sharing 1 cigarette.

                                                                                                                            I spoke with him
                                                                                                                            "I always thought you guys weren't allowed to drink and smoke"
                                                                                                                            "We aren't"
                                                                                                                            ".... So why are you?"
                                                                                                                            Don't recall exactly what he said, something like "we never get to do this stuff."
                                                                                                                            "Well if you're here doing this stuff, because your curiosity, are bored, whatever, and are doing it knowing very well you're going against the church, why don't you just not be Mormon?"
                                                                                                                            "You don't understand, my parents would disown me"

                                                                                                                            Then I went on to say something about keeping it real, bla bla.

                                                                                                                            And that's just cigs and alcohol. Can't imagine what he would face if he was gay.

                                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                              <Can't imagine what he would face if he was gay.>

                                                                                                                              Well, then you friend won't have a shot, would she?

                                                                                                                              <So my friend saw a cute guy and chatted him up.>

                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                Well, he didn't seem too interested her... o.0

                                                                                                                        2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                          Folks, this is all getting really far from this particular incident or anything that's really on-topic for Chowhound. It's such a huge issue, and we understand that people have a lot to say about it, but Chowhound is not really the right place to have this conversation.

                                                                                                                        3. This thread has devolved way too much. I mostly wonder why the hell the Barilla people were questioned about their philosophy. And then why the hell they didn't say "Huh???" when asked.

                                                                                                                          1. I think they were just looking for an excuse not to tip.

                                                                                                                            1. The Gallop Asian Bistro incident turns out to be a hoax. A couple has come forward to tell NBC that not only did they tip Morales, but they have their time-stamped receipt and credit card statement to prove they left an $18 tip on their $93.55 bill.


                                                                                                                              1 Reply
                                                                                                                              1. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                                I saw that on the Today Show this morning. The couple, even though they didn't show their faces, seemed credible. The waitress, however, did not. The credit card statement is the most compelling evidence. Shame on the waitress.