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Speechless.......Yes even I can be speechless........Anti-Gay patrons at Carraba's

jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:03 AM

As outspoken some of you might have thought I was in trying to petition for some understanding in the Barrilla thread, I will be the first to say, this is unacceptable in our society. Absolutely ridiculous, if your belief's are this strong than you simply need to stay home.


  1. GraydonCarter Nov 26, 2013 06:17 AM

    The Gallop Asian Bistro incident turns out to be a hoax. A couple has come forward to tell NBC that not only did they tip Morales, but they have their time-stamped receipt and credit card statement to prove they left an $18 tip on their $93.55 bill.


    1 Reply
    1. re: GraydonCarter
      KrumTx Nov 26, 2013 06:31 AM

      I saw that on the Today Show this morning. The couple, even though they didn't show their faces, seemed credible. The waitress, however, did not. The credit card statement is the most compelling evidence. Shame on the waitress.

    2. Disneyfreak Oct 30, 2013 08:04 AM

      I think they were just looking for an excuse not to tip.

      1. EWSflash Oct 29, 2013 09:15 PM

        This thread has devolved way too much. I mostly wonder why the hell the Barilla people were questioned about their philosophy. And then why the hell they didn't say "Huh???" when asked.

        1. jrvedivici Oct 29, 2013 08:07 AM

          There are a few posts in this thread that this video can apply to. I'm just putting it here for anyone to watch that cares to. Personally I think this hits the nail on the head with what this topic is dealing with, people who skew their religious belief into a self fulfilling ideology which fuels their personal "agenda".

          Being a life long Catholic and raising my children as Catholics "by default", I have to say I am so impressed with this Pope and his views. Breathing some fresh air into a stale and outdated society which needs to become more progressive in some of their views before they alienate an entire generation who are just going to turn their backs on the archaic policies.

          To steer things back on a food topic topic, I understand the Pope is a huge fan of braised short ribs!!! He has been quoted as saying "Under cooking short ribs should be a sin"!


          11 Replies
          1. re: jrvedivici
            youareabunny Oct 29, 2013 08:44 AM

            I used to think he was "new" then I read all this about his statements being taken out of context, misconstrued etc.

            1. re: youareabunny
              jrvedivici Oct 29, 2013 09:03 AM

              Meaning his statements about being more open and understanding? If you can elaborate or provide reading material I would greatly appreciate it.

              1. re: jrvedivici
                youareabunny Oct 29, 2013 10:48 AM

                Pretty much, it seems the focus has been on his statement "Yes, though it wasn’t necessary to speak of it, but rather of the positive things that open up the path to young people. Isn’t that right! Besides, young people know [the churches standing] ". ((Didn't have a complete copy there, difficult on my phone)). ANYWAY... So people tend to read that as, rather than to focus on abortion, gay marriage the church needs to focus on teaching of Christ, love, brotherhood, etc.

                But just before and after he explains it's well known the church's standing, it's not necessary to state it each time, just as he doesn't always discuss other sins.

                Transcript: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/fra...

                Patricia Zorzan:

                Speaking on behalf of the Brazilians: society has changed, young people have changed, and in Brazil we have seen a great many young people. You did not speak about abortion, about same-sex marriage. In Brazil a law has been approved which widens the right to abortion and permits marriage between people of the same sex. Why did you not speak about this?

                Pope Francis:

                The Church has already spoken quite clearly on this. It was unnecessary to return to it, just as I didn’t speak about cheating, lying, or other matters on which the Church has a clear teaching!

                Patricia Zorzan:

                But the young are interested in this ...

                Pope Francis:

                Yes, though it wasn’t necessary to speak of it, but rather of the positive things that open up the path to young people. Isn’t that right! Besides, young people know perfectly well what the Church’s position is.

                Patricia Zorzan:

                What is Your Holiness’ position, if we may ask?

                Pope Francis:

                The position of the Church. I am a son of the Church.


                So my point is, I think it isn't an issue of him being more open minded. As he said, he's son of the church, and the church's beliefs are clear. He just didn't want to talk about it at that moment.

                And found another interview where he discussed gay priests. Basically he prefers a chaste gay priest than a promiscuous straight one. Something about gay acts being a sin, being gay is a wound. The usual "condemn the sin, not the sinner" spiel.

                Only reason I vaguely know this is because I've got a few hardcore Catholics on my Facebook posting all kinds of stuff. As I said, I used to think the same about the pope.

                Oh and ummm, back when I ate ribs I used to love them well cooked, too.

                1. re: youareabunny
                  jrvedivici Oct 29, 2013 10:57 AM

                  Thank you for the follow up!

            2. re: jrvedivici
              GraydonCarter Oct 29, 2013 11:40 AM

              The thing is that the church, along with the gay pastor, as well as the hateful patron, all equate a man's effeminate manners with a "gay lifestyle" when they are not the same. The waiter can resist the homosexual urge and be "sinless" in the eyes of G*d and in complete compliance with the church teachings and yet he is rejected. This is why so many church-going gay teens commit suicide, because they feel there is no acceptance for them anywhere.

              1. re: GraydonCarter
                Chemicalkinetics Oct 29, 2013 11:53 AM

                <This is why so many church-going gay teens commit suicide>

                I don't know if there are MANY committed suicide because of the church, but they should probably stop going to church. If anything, just to sleep a few more hours. Churches always make people wake up too early. I would consider suicide just because I have to wake up early.

                1. re: GraydonCarter
                  jrvedivici Oct 29, 2013 12:03 PM

                  Well here is where I would say a portion of the blame for a teen suicide, based on church hypocrisy, is also a parents fault. If you know your child is struggling with their identity or sexuality then I feel it's your responsibility as a parent to shield them from influences which would make them feel further alienated.

                  1. re: jrvedivici
                    youareabunny Oct 29, 2013 12:17 PM

                    Influences like the church?

                    It was a few years ago that a couple friends and I were at a local dive. Marines, karaoke, and cheap drinks, it doesn't get any better than that. So my friend saw a cute guy and chatted him up. I noticed he and his friends seemed a bit out of place. Turns out they were Mormon and had driven about 6 hours to get here. My friend proceeded to buy them all shots - jäger- , then when we went out for a smoke so did they - about 6 guys sharing 1 cigarette.

                    I spoke with him
                    "I always thought you guys weren't allowed to drink and smoke"
                    "We aren't"
                    ".... So why are you?"
                    Don't recall exactly what he said, something like "we never get to do this stuff."
                    "Well if you're here doing this stuff, because your curiosity, are bored, whatever, and are doing it knowing very well you're going against the church, why don't you just not be Mormon?"
                    "You don't understand, my parents would disown me"

                    Then I went on to say something about keeping it real, bla bla.

                    And that's just cigs and alcohol. Can't imagine what he would face if he was gay.

                    1. re: youareabunny
                      Chemicalkinetics Oct 29, 2013 12:20 PM

                      <Can't imagine what he would face if he was gay.>

                      Well, then you friend won't have a shot, would she?

                      <So my friend saw a cute guy and chatted him up.>

                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                        youareabunny Oct 29, 2013 12:54 PM

                        Well, he didn't seem too interested her... o.0

                2. re: jrvedivici
                  The Chowhound Team Oct 29, 2013 01:30 PM

                  Folks, this is all getting really far from this particular incident or anything that's really on-topic for Chowhound. It's such a huge issue, and we understand that people have a lot to say about it, but Chowhound is not really the right place to have this conversation.

                3. coney with everything Oct 29, 2013 05:02 AM

                  interesting way to be self-righteously cheap. Reminds me of that "minister" a while back who wrote she wouldn't tip a server more than she gave to God.

                  Did these people read that Bible they thump? They should look up "Pharisee". Also see "whited sepulchre"

                  1. s
                    sueatmo Oct 27, 2013 07:04 PM

                    OK. I assume you read the entire article? A pastor from a local church later came to the restaurant specifically to be served by the server in question. Also, lots of people rallied to the server's defense, so much so, he asked to be judged by the level of service he provides rather than by sympathy.

                    It seems to me the takeaway is that one or two bigoted people are outnumbered by lots of other sympathetic people.

                    And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the real reason the tip was not left was because the diners are cheap.

                    10 Replies
                    1. re: sueatmo
                      c oliver Oct 27, 2013 07:05 PM

                      As I mentioned upthread, sue, I 'damn' the owner of the restaurant for not saying what their action(s) is going to be.

                      1. re: sueatmo
                        youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 09:34 PM

                        Then why leave the note on the receipt?

                        1. re: youareabunny
                          sueatmo Oct 27, 2013 10:31 PM

                          I don't know. I think what they did is reprehensible. Cheap people justify their actions using their biases, I guess.

                          It seems to me that lost in all of this is that plenty of Kansans have spoken out against the cheap "Christians" and in favor of letting the server have the dignity of doing a good job, with his deserved tips.

                          1. re: sueatmo
                            youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 11:59 PM

                            I know plenty of cheap family and friends. I watched my BFF flirt up the hottest bartender ever (basically leonidas from 300) and give him no tip. Nothing wrong with him or the drink, she's just ridiculously cheap.

                            Don't get the couple in the article confused with cheap people.

                        2. re: sueatmo
                          Chemicalkinetics Oct 27, 2013 09:40 PM

                          <And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the real reason the tip was not left was because the diners are cheap.>

                          It has to be more than just being cheap. If someone is cheap, he/she can just leave without paying the tip. There is no need to spend 2-4 min writing a note (offensive one at that too).

                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                            sueatmo Oct 27, 2013 10:32 PM

                            Maybe I'm wrong, but I've know plenty of people who justify not paying out money by using a common prejudice. As I stated before, what they did was reprehensible.

                            1. re: sueatmo
                              youareabunny Oct 28, 2013 12:01 AM

                              That is very sad. The few times I have given little/no tip was due to HORRIBLE service, and that's the only reason.

                              1. re: sueatmo
                                Chemicalkinetics Oct 28, 2013 09:49 AM

                                I don't disagree the couple (at least one of them) was being cheap, but I think the cheap(ness) part is the minor part. I think it is the anti-gay stance drove the cheapness, and not the cheapness drove the anti-gay.

                                What I mean is that the patron probably first have the idea of "I dislike gay lifestyle" and then decided that "I won't give him tip". I don't think it is the other way. In my mind, it is unlikely that he/she thought: "I don't want to pay the tip" and then "Ok, let me think why I should not pay the tip. Oh yes, he is gay. Let me write this down on a receipt"

                                I am far from a perfect person, so I don't mind putting myself in their shoes. I just think that if I am a very cheap guy and I want to avoid paying tip, then I would probably want to get out of the restaurant as fast and as quiet as possible. I don't think I would start writing a 90 words essay on a receipt. I think I have to feel quiet strongly about something to spend that time and energy.

                                <As I stated before, what they did was reprehensible.>

                                Absolutely, I don't doubt your position for one second. I know you have clearly stated that you disapprove this, and I have no reason not to believe you.

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                  sueatmo Oct 28, 2013 06:22 PM

                                  Could be. Or it could have been, "I don't like leaving tips, hey is that guy gay? Well, I'm definitely not leaving a tip for him."

                                  But I've made my points here, and as much as I shake my head in disbelief, I have to disagree and move on.

                                  1. re: sueatmo
                                    Chemicalkinetics Oct 28, 2013 07:20 PM

                                    :) I respect you. You know that. Let's move on and discuss another topic soon.

                          2. g
                            GH1618 Oct 27, 2013 04:12 PM

                            It is appalling, but it's good that the server received a lot of community support. The publicity works against the message promoted by the diners her started this.

                            1. chowser Oct 27, 2013 02:39 PM

                              I don't understand how it's perfectly acceptable for Barilla's owner to speak up against gays and those who protest are called judgemental/intolerant/unaccepting but that this is wrong. You are the one who argued for acceptance of the owner's views. Speaking against gays is speaking against gays. Having a larger bullypulpit, as the Barilla owner has, is far worst because it reaches more people.

                              "Absolutely ridiculous, if your belief's are this strong than you simply need to stay home"

                              Unless you are running a world wide company, in which case such a view should be acceptable?

                              10 Replies
                              1. re: chowser
                                youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 02:43 PM

                                Maybe because in this case, it's in "our society"?

                                1. re: youareabunny
                                  chowser Oct 27, 2013 04:04 PM

                                  Regardless of location, the statement was:

                                  "I will choose to respect his opinions, even if they differ with mine, and when the tables are turned, I would hope someone would respect my opinion when it differs with their own."


                                  This most likely will be deleted but I'm trying to understand how this couple can be admonished but Barilla's owner who has similar views is respected.

                                  1. re: chowser
                                    youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 09:33 PM

                                    Understandably. Maybe he holds America to a different standard. He did point out the lack of LGBTQ rights in Italy.

                                    Maybe it was the use of derogatory terms?

                                    But I agree. No consistency here.

                                2. re: chowser
                                  jrvedivici Oct 28, 2013 07:02 AM

                                  Chowser…..I will try to explain the differences I see between these two cases for you. While you copy pasted (below) you conveniently leave out where I said, and will say again, I’m for equal rights, I’m anti discrimination, gay or otherwise. I do believe gay or straight should share the same legal rights when it comes to marriage etc. Live and let live is my exact philosophy.

                                  With regard to Barilla I didn't see his comments as much “anti-gay” as they were ignorant or “pro-straight”. He never admonished people for being gay, he stated he wouldn’t use a gay family in his advertising because it didn’t agree with or reflect his vision of a family, which was “traditional” with a woman /mother as the center figure.

                                  To be perfectly honest I don’t identify with a gay family as a traditional family either. I was raised in a two parent home with a mother and a father of opposite sex, to me that is traditional. Am I anti-gay because that is what relate to? If I were to see a TV commercial which represented a gay family would I relate to that? No. I would understand it, I wouldn't be offended by it, but I don’t relate to it. Does that make me a bad person? Am I anti-gay because I believe they should have the same rights I do but don’t directly identify with them? People are people and I accept people of the same sex can be in love and should be allowed to live legally and happily, but I don’t personally relate to it.

                                  His (Barilla) comments were regarding advertising for his company skewed by his personal views. If he had made comments such as “Gays are an abomination” – “We will never hire gays” – “We are an anti gay company” etc. I would view it as a direct threat, I just see a person, living in a far less progressive society, espousing views which I would expect reflect the majority his countrymen/women. I didn't find his comments threatening as much as antiquated and ignorant. The only person(s) that could lose by his comments are him and his company. He even said something to the extent if you don’t agree with this don’t purchase our product, which many people, gay and straight, took him up on. However, even in that thread there were a fair number of self admitted gay people who also said they have bigger fish to fry than this and were not protesting.

                                  Barilla’s words were only negatively affecting himself, his product and his company. I did not view his words as threatening in any manner.

                                  Contrary to this article where the people made a premeditated decision to “use” the server and then made a conscious effort to punish and admonish the server for their perceived bias of him being gay. The people could have easily asked for a different table, a different server or just left the restaurant if they were so “offended” by a gay server. If they felt it was such a sin against their God and their religion. But to sit there….allow the person to serve you, allow them to perform their services, which they expect to be compensated for, and then deny to provide them with their compensation is a much different scenario in my eyes. The words written on the check were words of hate and admonishment which I do not agree with AT ALL.

                                  Barilla not agreeing with the gay family image is not an expression of hate in my eyes where this example is a blatant act of hate to me. Again, I don’t agree with either of them, I just gave Barilla a little more slack, because I view it as ignorance over malice, this just reeks of malice.

                                  Regardless both are wrong; I never said anything to the contrary.

                                  1. re: jrvedivici
                                    Veggo Oct 28, 2013 07:51 AM

                                    Best post here, jr.

                                    1. re: Veggo
                                      fourunder Oct 28, 2013 07:55 AM

                                      I concur.....

                                      1. re: fourunder
                                        jrvedivici Oct 29, 2013 06:02 AM

                                        Thanks Veggo & Four.....just trying to clear the air, obviously I'm a big believer in communication. Also thanks to the 9 "recommends" from various people.

                                    2. re: jrvedivici
                                      chowser Oct 28, 2013 11:32 AM

                                      Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I wasn't intending to vilify you, so I apologize if it came off that way. I was hoping to reconcile the two seemingly contradictory views which you did. While I don't have the same view as you, I understand where you're coming from.

                                      If I were to define a traditional marriage by what my parents have, it would be man/woman, same race, marriage based on status/goals and not love, man works, woman stays home to raise children (the purpose of the marriage). My view of traditional marriage varies from that and I see my siblings interracial marriage, sister to divorced man w/ child as traditional as theirs. Interracial, working wife, wife equal to husband, childless/childfree, homosexual, marriage based on love despite social status all fit under that for me. To deny that, to me, is to call their "otherness" and say they're not the same as everyone else and I don't think that's true. So, I see the owner of Barilla's words as that. Both discriminatory. If one of my children were to come out to me and get married, I'd see that marriage the same as the other and would hope that the world eventually would, too.

                                      1. re: chowser
                                        jrvedivici Oct 28, 2013 11:42 AM

                                        "I can understand where you're coming from"

                                        Those are the words we should all strive to hear from one and other on topics such as this. Where there is understanding there is room for improvement.


                                        1. re: jrvedivici
                                          chowser Oct 28, 2013 11:53 AM


                                  2. h
                                    Harters Oct 27, 2013 10:07 AM

                                    With Christians like these in society, I thank God I'm an athiest.

                                    1. m
                                      mwhitmore Oct 27, 2013 06:37 AM

                                      My old question: What if I believe that God exists...but I just don't like Him?

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: mwhitmore
                                        Chemicalkinetics Oct 27, 2013 02:55 PM

                                        Depends, in some religions, it is acceptable, especially for polylithic religions In Christianity, it it not.

                                      2. ipsedixit Oct 26, 2013 09:14 PM

                                        Hanlon's Razor

                                        1. Chemicalkinetics Oct 26, 2013 08:42 PM

                                          This is bad, but I will say that this is far from the worsts.

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                            c oliver Oct 26, 2013 09:19 PM

                                            Does that mean it shouldn't be discussed?

                                          2. c oliver Oct 26, 2013 07:03 PM

                                            jr, just stumbled on this. I remain appalled. And astounded that the company declined to comment on how they're going to handle it. That, to me, is what makes this CH-appropriate. How the hell ARE they going to handle this? If there's a she-god in heaven, somebody needs to be smited.

                                            1. m
                                              miss_belle Oct 26, 2013 05:39 PM

                                              You left the second B out of Carrabba's. I still don't see any major news source covering this story. Including CNN.

                                              8 Replies
                                              1. re: miss_belle
                                                Veggo Oct 26, 2013 05:46 PM

                                                I'm not sure this story moves the needle on the Richter scale of world events.

                                                1. re: Veggo
                                                  chileheadmike Oct 26, 2013 05:58 PM

                                                  I doesn't . CNN did have a piece on it on their website.

                                                  1. re: chileheadmike
                                                    Veggo Oct 26, 2013 06:02 PM

                                                    Slow news day. That's a good thing more often than not.

                                                    1. re: chileheadmike
                                                      miss_belle Oct 26, 2013 06:13 PM

                                                      I stand corrected. I searched Carrabba's gay. But when I add CNN to the mix the article is buried in 5 examples of humans being amazing.

                                                      1. re: miss_belle
                                                        Veggo Oct 26, 2013 06:16 PM

                                                        Humans are amazing in both benevolent and malevolent ways.

                                                    2. re: Veggo
                                                      miss_belle Oct 26, 2013 05:59 PM

                                                      Except on chowhound.

                                                      1. re: miss_belle
                                                        Veggo Oct 26, 2013 06:10 PM

                                                        Indeed. On CH it is the equivalent of a nuclear attack.

                                                        1. re: Veggo
                                                          miss_belle Oct 26, 2013 06:19 PM


                                                  2. Atomic76 Oct 25, 2013 10:31 PM

                                                    Part of me kind of agrees with a comment I saw about this on another web site, that the wording of the supposed note seems a little fishy. Disclaimer, I'm gay myself, and used to work as a server as well. There is something about the way it was written that reads a little idealized or crafted. I've had people say stupid crap to me before, but they don't often mingle "f@g" or "f@ggot" with stuff like "god's love" and "homosexual", it's usually one or the other. It sounds to me more like he got stiffed on a tip, and perhaps "embellished" the check a bit in retaliation...just my 2 cents

                                                    9 Replies
                                                    1. re: Atomic76
                                                      youareabunny Oct 26, 2013 03:03 AM

                                                      It appears that that the censored word was queer, then fag. I'll type it out because it's a hole in a barrel, I believe.

                                                      Anyway I'll give benefit of the doubt and consider that he did in fact receive this. I doubt this is the first bad tip/no tip he's received so why would he do this now? 15 minutes of anti-gay fame?

                                                      1. re: youareabunny
                                                        Chimayo Joe Oct 26, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                        A waitress a few weeks ago claimed she wasn't tipped by someone who wrote the "n word" on the check and has received over $10,000 from sympathetic people.

                                                        The gay guy's timing is suspicious but that's counterbalanced by the restaurant's proximity to those Westboro scumbags(about an hour away). Writing something like that on the check seems just like something they would do.

                                                        1. re: Chimayo Joe
                                                          fourunder Oct 26, 2013 11:08 AM

                                                          It's already been proven by two separate expert handwriting analysts that the supposed event you reference was not written by the cardholder....although he admits he did not tip.

                                                          1. re: fourunder
                                                            Ruth Lafler Oct 26, 2013 03:58 PM

                                                            So what was his excuse for not tipping?

                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                              INDIANRIVERFL Oct 26, 2013 05:00 PM

                                                              Could it be lousy service?

                                                              I love the rush to judgement that is facilitated by the many social media outlets. Will the apparent falsification of the message receive the same amount of air time? Will the additional tips be returned?

                                                              Does being a minority give somebody a free pass at what appears to be fraud?

                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                fourunder Oct 26, 2013 06:23 PM

                                                                The order was changed for Take-Out....and apparently, the tables have turned on the waitress, who is now being sued by the customer.


                                                                1. re: fourunder
                                                                  youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 12:42 AM

                                                                  Suppose now they'll get to the bottom of it. It could have been her that wrote the comment, or even a co worker.

                                                                  Reminds me of my mother who purchased a Luciano Pavarotti book for her SIL in the Philippines. When they were packing it, her cousin signed "to Tina. With love, Luciano" and apparently SIL shook when she saw the "autograph."

                                                                  And I just shook my head.

                                                                2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                  Chimayo Joe Oct 26, 2013 06:30 PM

                                                                  IIRC, they had placed their order then got a phone call that caused them to get it to go. I guess they didn't feel obligated to tip on take out. Seems like some kind of tip would have still been appropriate even if it were a reduced tip.

                                                          2. re: Atomic76
                                                            redips Oct 27, 2013 07:01 PM

                                                            This sounds exactly like the works of the loony's at Westboro Baptist... I would be surprised if it wasn't one of their cult members. They use slang with positive words all the time. Especially b/c it appears that the restaurant is in Kansas.

                                                          3. ipsedixit Oct 25, 2013 07:31 PM

                                                            I am a bit surprised that this is shocking or as outrageous as it appears to be to people.

                                                            Get out and around enough in the world, you realize there are as many ignorant and hateful people as there are kind and wonderful people.

                                                            Just because people on Chowhound all generally appear to be civilized and decent folks, it doesn't mean the rest of the world is any type of reflection of our own little ecosystem here.

                                                            (As an aside, for those of us "hating" on these anti-gay customers, are *we* any better for hating on them, or hating on Kansas for that matter?)

                                                            8 Replies
                                                            1. re: ipsedixit
                                                              youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 08:00 PM

                                                              I consider it disappointing, probably shocking, but definitely not surprising.

                                                              1. re: ipsedixit
                                                                chowser Oct 27, 2013 04:22 PM

                                                                "(As an aside, for those of us "hating" on these anti-gay customers, are *we* any better for hating on them"

                                                                Sure. it's better to hate the KKK and their views than to be a member of the KKK and hate other races.

                                                                1. re: chowser
                                                                  linguafood Oct 27, 2013 04:40 PM

                                                                  Some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around false equivalency.

                                                                  1. re: chowser
                                                                    Worldwide Diner Oct 27, 2013 06:47 PM

                                                                    Neither is acceptable.

                                                                    1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                      Veggo Oct 27, 2013 06:55 PM

                                                                      " but some Chowhounds are more equal than others"
                                                                      - apologies to George Orwell

                                                                      1. re: Veggo
                                                                        ipsedixit Oct 27, 2013 07:16 PM

                                                                        No. Some are just better. By a lot.

                                                                        1. re: ipsedixit
                                                                          chowser Oct 27, 2013 07:19 PM

                                                                          Yep, the top pig being those who hate the haters who hate the haters.

                                                                          1. re: chowser
                                                                            Veggo Oct 27, 2013 07:35 PM

                                                                            This argument gets a bit circular with each additional revolution, no?

                                                                2. g
                                                                  Goatjunky Oct 25, 2013 07:18 PM

                                                                  I am a lutheran right wing conservative that was born and bred in Palm Springs ca. My 18 year old son came out to us recently. It make me realize how insulated drom the rest of the country

                                                                  I edit because we arent having a problem with it. As much as i realize how my small town relatives are going to

                                                                  23 Replies
                                                                  1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                    youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 07:22 PM

                                                                    That took him some guts.

                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                      Goatjunky Oct 25, 2013 07:29 PM

                                                                      Yea...and it makes me proud. That he is being who he is

                                                                      1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                        youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 07:38 PM

                                                                        Wonderful to read :). I've heard of so many instances when sons and daughters who have come out become disowned... so wasn't sure what to expect in your instance. It must be an eye opener?

                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                          Goatjunky Oct 25, 2013 07:54 PM

                                                                          I feel like its probably not the right forum for it, but i could say so much. And just for the odd cooking ref on topic. My 92 year old grandfather thinks i made him gay by making him cook fancy food. Lol

                                                                          1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                            youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 08:00 PM

                                                                            I think it's valuable to the conversation considering you, like the couple in the article, are religious and you have dealt with homosexuality in another way. Maybe you were shocked as the couple were.

                                                                            Next time you cook for grandpa, fold some cloth napkin swans :).

                                                                            1. re: youareabunny
                                                                              Goatjunky Oct 25, 2013 08:31 PM

                                                                              Funny thing is, he cooks moose, cans tuna, can make aableskiver and a mean chile verde. Not even sure you decide what makes him fancy. I just hate the gay on sight thing. So not true.

                                                                              I realize im going off thread. Sorry

                                                                              1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                Goatjunky Oct 25, 2013 08:37 PM

                                                                                You not towards you per se

                                                                                1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                  hill food Oct 25, 2013 09:10 PM

                                                                                  "I just hate the gay on sight thing"

                                                                                  sadly, many have to be reminded that ya ain't gotta be gay to get gay-bashed.

                                                                                  1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                    C. Hamster Oct 26, 2013 06:52 PM

                                                                                    " I just hate the gay on sight thing. So not true."

                                                                                    Let me try to gently explain to you why it's often true.

                                                                                    I'm gay, btw, have been out for 30 years, successful and happy and moderately active in the community.

                                                                                    There are lots of folks in the LGTBQ community who try to be "gay on sight" for a reason. They want to be noticed as being gay. They don't want to blend in. They are making their statement with their appearance/ behavior, etc.

                                                                                    That's not me.

                                                                                    But *hating* the "gay on sight" thing sort of disrespects those proud folks who WANT to be identified immediately as such.

                                                                                    1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                      hill food Oct 26, 2013 11:33 PM

                                                                                      I always thought simply not hiding "it" was a political statement in and of it's own.

                                                                                      true there is value in being clearly visible and value in quietly ripping apart stereotypes as well.

                                                                                      there are many paths to the Godhead I always say.

                                                                                      1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 12:39 AM

                                                                                        Well maybe some don't blend in to blend in, they just like wearing more typical clothes? Some gay guys love the frills and feathers and others look like they're part of NWA.

                                                                                        That's like me making sure I'm always wearing hello kitty so people know I'm Asian.

                                                                                        I thought goat was referring to gay on sight as in, for some people there are a few signs that obviously make you gay.
                                                                                        "He's wearing purple! Definitely gay"
                                                                                        "He's eating a banana! What a fruit!"

                                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                          hill food Oct 27, 2013 01:29 AM

                                                                                          "That's like me making sure I'm always wearing hello kitty so people know I'm Asian. "

                                                                                          HA! a (mostly Japanese) friend in art school was teased by an instructor that for her ethnic studies studio "I know Kathy, you could make SHOJI SCREENS!"

                                                                                          it was said as a joke and she appreciated someone was willing to say it.

                                                                                        2. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                          Goatjunky Oct 27, 2013 07:01 PM

                                                                                          I think what i should have said.. is that i hate when people assume they can tell someone is gay just by looking. Gaydar. Not when someone is proudly being out

                                                                                          1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                            youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 09:30 PM

                                                                                            That's what I thought you thought ;)

                                                                                            1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                              c oliver Oct 27, 2013 09:35 PM

                                                                                              So are you saying that "gaydar" works for you?

                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                hill food Oct 27, 2013 11:25 PM

                                                                                                it never does for me. If I assume something, then I assume I'm wrong and just STFU.

                                                                                                1. re: hill food
                                                                                                  youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 11:56 PM

                                                                                                  I met a gay guy at a club one night. He had a lisp, really nice clothes, and even a fancy made up name he chose for himself (Paul just wasn't doing it for him.) I was so excited to finally have a gay friend. Then a few hours later he's trying to kiss me and I was so confused.

                                                                                                  And try isn't even the correct word but I'll keep it at that.

                                                                                                  1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                    hill food Oct 28, 2013 12:14 AM

                                                                                                    you really can't tell anymore. I had an amusing morning at work once explaining to my boss just what her son meant after he declared himself a 'metro-sexual'.

                                                                                                  2. re: hill food
                                                                                                    Goatjunky Oct 28, 2013 07:49 AM

                                                                                                    Totally agree with Hill.

                                                                                                  3. re: c oliver
                                                                                                    Goatjunky Oct 28, 2013 08:01 AM

                                                                                                    No, the opposite

                                                                                                    1. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                                      c oliver Oct 28, 2013 08:19 AM

                                                                                                      Oh, good.

                                                                                                  4. re: Goatjunky
                                                                                                    C. Hamster Oct 28, 2013 06:39 AM

                                                                                                    I can often tell if someone is gay just by looking but I've had 30+ years of practice.

                                                                                                    Don't be irked when someone assumes someone else is gay simply because of their appearance. There's nothing wrong with being gay, after all. No harm no foul.

                                                                                                    Still, I appreciate your point.

                                                                                                    1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                      hill food Oct 28, 2013 11:30 PM

                                                                                                      "No harm no foul."

                                                                                                      up and until you get the shit kicked out of you.

                                                                                                      I just leave it all at the level of 'hunch' until further notice. safer that way and costs nothing.

                                                                                  2. y
                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 05:59 PM

                                                                                    So they Couldn't enjoy a meal and pay what they owe, they absolutely had to fight the good fight.

                                                                                    1. The Chowhound Team Oct 25, 2013 12:55 PM

                                                                                      Folks, this is obviously one of those topics that invites outrage, but can we try to stay on topic and keep the angry generalizations about Kansans, Christians and Kansas Christians down to a minimum, please? They really don't add much to the conversation, and they're already dragging this off the rails.

                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                      1. re: The Chowhound Team
                                                                                        miss_belle Oct 25, 2013 05:42 PM

                                                                                        I'm glad this thread came to a grinding screeching halt for now.Thank you.

                                                                                      2. Ruth Lafler Oct 25, 2013 11:37 AM

                                                                                        So now people get to use their religious beliefs to justify not paying people for the work they do?

                                                                                        I read this study just yesterday, that says in pertinent part: "[Higher levels of dishonesty among] those for whom religion was more important to their lives is surprising, ... as most religions promote honesty as a virtue. It may be that students for whom religion was important feel separate from other students at this largely secular university, and thus feel less compelled to be honest with them." The history of the world demonstrates that all you have to do is define someone as "not one of us" to justify treating them in a way that you would otherwise consider immoral.


                                                                                        4 Replies
                                                                                        1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                          linguafood Oct 25, 2013 12:14 PM

                                                                                          Well, the bible's full of "not one of us" passages, and what to do with those people. Not much of a surprise, really.

                                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                                            gaffk Oct 25, 2013 12:24 PM

                                                                                            Heh. In college I took a religion class "On Violence." Reading list started with the Old Testament . . . lots of nastiness there.

                                                                                            1. re: gaffk
                                                                                              Ruth Lafler Oct 25, 2013 12:27 PM

                                                                                              It's funny that the same people who want to ban books from schools because of their sexual content want to put the Bible in schools, when the Bible is full of sex, including rape and prostitution!

                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                gaffk Oct 25, 2013 12:41 PM

                                                                                                Not to mention incest.

                                                                                                But I believe these good Christians ignore the OT and just concentrate on the New (you know . . .the one that focuses on charity, mercy, acceptance ;)

                                                                                        2. e
                                                                                          emu48 Oct 25, 2013 10:35 AM

                                                                                          Kansas is the American version of Afghanistan: lots of poor people with guns and extreme religious beliefs. Christians, like Muslims, are perfectly OK people. In most other places.

                                                                                          8 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: emu48
                                                                                            fourunder Oct 25, 2013 10:39 AM

                                                                                            That's my vision of New Jersey

                                                                                            1. re: emu48
                                                                                              chileheadmike Oct 25, 2013 12:47 PM

                                                                                              But all Kansans are poor, gun loving nuts?

                                                                                              Got it.

                                                                                              1. re: chileheadmike
                                                                                                hill food Oct 25, 2013 06:19 PM

                                                                                                we can't gang up on Kansas (and Kansas City in this case) over on the other side of Missouri in STL (another place that should know better) my parents were out with friends and while they didn't behave like assholes, when they got home all they could talk about for a few days after was how 'flame-y' their waiter was. "was his behavior on purpose? was he trying to make a point? is that normal?"

                                                                                                yeesh, an effeminate gay waiter, that'd be a first - get out of the house more.

                                                                                                1. re: hill food
                                                                                                  hill food Oct 25, 2013 09:21 PM

                                                                                                  <edit> mike - "poor, gun loving nuts? "

                                                                                                  over here in central MO that's about ALL we have. poor, gun loving nuts, but decent and not raging assholes (mostly). folks (well hillbillies really - and that's said with more than a bit of odd respect) are a lot cooler than given credit. I found the same during my time in KS.

                                                                                                  gladly wackjobs like these are the exception, not the rule. maybe the couple was from Westboro Baptist and busted out of the compound for the afternoon but didn't leave their values behind (just be glad they didn't make it any farther)


                                                                                                  1. re: hill food
                                                                                                    chileheadmike Oct 25, 2013 09:53 PM

                                                                                                    I got my panties in a twist.
                                                                                                    1st because these arsewholes are from my home and they give my home a bad name.
                                                                                                    2nd because people believe the stereotype and propagate it on this site.

                                                                                                    I am very proud of my state. And proud of our civil rights history. Kansas was fighting against bigotry well before the rest of the nation joined in. These idiots overshadow our proud history of equal rights, begun in the 1850's.


                                                                                                    1. re: chileheadmike
                                                                                                      hill food Oct 26, 2013 12:14 AM

                                                                                                      KU's teams didn't get the name of 'Jayhawks' for nothing. (and I say that with respect even though I was K-State)

                                                                                                      OT - but there's a LOT more to the largely overlooked states than people realize.

                                                                                                      1. re: chileheadmike
                                                                                                        Ruth Lafler Oct 26, 2013 03:55 PM

                                                                                                        I would agree with you, except that people don't do things like that unless they think their beliefs are acceptable in the community. That's what you see all over the place now: the political and religious climate emboldens people to say things in public they would have been ashamed to say five years ago.

                                                                                                        1. re: chileheadmike
                                                                                                          hill food Oct 27, 2013 11:23 PM

                                                                                                          mike - hey over in your neck of the woods I just read something about Mound Island State Park in Bates County MO (just across the border), a battlefield that saw for the first time in the Civil war an all-black regiment in battle - go Jayhawkers!

                                                                                                2. MsDiPesto Oct 25, 2013 10:29 AM

                                                                                                  How the heck do idiots like that hold down jobs and function in society? Totally unacceptable.

                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                  1. re: MsDiPesto
                                                                                                    pinehurst Oct 25, 2013 10:32 AM

                                                                                                    You're assuming that they have jobs, dear MsD. ;-)

                                                                                                    And I think we all know how they 'function' in society.

                                                                                                  2. n
                                                                                                    Nanzi Oct 25, 2013 10:28 AM

                                                                                                    I think we are supposed to hate the sin, but love the sinner. This was just pure hate, an example of worrying about the splinter in someones eye instead of the telephone pole in your own. And if this is hardwired into genes, it surely needs to be rethought.

                                                                                                    17 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: Nanzi
                                                                                                      jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:33 AM

                                                                                                      "hate the sin, but love the sinner" excellent example of what a true Christian should be. Not these idiots.

                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 25, 2013 06:57 PM

                                                                                                        As painful as that is to accept, it's probably what can be best expected.

                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                          karenfinan Oct 26, 2013 08:59 AM

                                                                                                          How is being gay a sin?????

                                                                                                          1. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                            fourunder Oct 26, 2013 09:02 AM

                                                                                                            I'm pretty sure they are referencing the diners, not the server.

                                                                                                            1. re: fourunder
                                                                                                              karenfinan Oct 26, 2013 09:04 AM

                                                                                                              Oh, thanks, that's better!

                                                                                                            2. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                              youareabunny Oct 26, 2013 09:35 AM

                                                                                                              The bible?

                                                                                                              1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                karenfinan Oct 26, 2013 08:39 PM

                                                                                                                Oh dear god in fucking heaven, really? I would be ashamed to have any bullshit reason to condone thinking that

                                                                                                                1. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                                  hill food Oct 26, 2013 10:45 PM

                                                                                                                  I like turning the "hate the sin" phrase on the cretins, not the waiter, but used in this context even if the customers considered him a hell-bound wretch, they should still offer him, if not love then, dignity and respect.

                                                                                                                  1. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 12:34 AM

                                                                                                                    Just going off of what I've read. Are we reading the same book?

                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                      karenfinan Oct 27, 2013 08:54 AM

                                                                                                                      Well, this is not a religion forum, so I'll let this be my last post on the subject, but that book also condones slavery, stoning to death a woman who is not a virgin at time of marriage, not eating shellfish, or wearing clothes of blended materials, so I don't think using it as a guide for your bigotry holds water

                                                                                                                      1. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 09:54 AM

                                                                                                                        Hmmm. I think we're having an error in communication here.

                                                                                                                        As in, from what I understand about "hate the sin, not the sinner" is that the bible teaches against the act not the person. So, that's why when you asked "how is being gay a sin?" I responded "the bible."

                                                                                                                        I'm agnostic, probably atheist. So, I was alluding to what reasoning others' who do not share my pro LGBTQ/humankind views have. It seems to me it's usually either religious or just plain ignorance. But usually religious

                                                                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                          hill food Oct 27, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                                                                          I getcha bunny, one can consider (harmless) acts a mortal sin, yet still be cordial and even warm to the poor damned soul (exaggerating for effect). what it comes down to is: if one thinks it's such a horrible thing, either don't leave the house lest you encounter 'others' (black, gay, Muslim, Jewish, Finnish or gasp! all of the above) or just keep your yap shut, no children have been hurt and it's not your immortal soul in question to consider.

                                                                                                                          1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                            youareabunny Oct 27, 2013 10:36 AM

                                                                                                                            I agree. I find it sad that anyone could view anyone with such a label, but in the least they can STFU, better yet treat them as they'd treat anyone else, and if they must - pray for them. :)

                                                                                                            3. re: Nanzi
                                                                                                              karenfinan Oct 25, 2013 06:37 PM

                                                                                                              Being Gay is a sin?... I would want no part of that religion!

                                                                                                              1. re: karenfinan
                                                                                                                hill food Oct 28, 2013 12:38 AM

                                                                                                                karen - only in the old testament and only in a few verses out of thousands that are open to wide interpretation.

                                                                                                                as an agnostic (who actually reads and comprehends) I have an attic full of evangelicals who ought to remember better that by becoming a "Christian" the old testament is to be considered superceded and only alluded to as a historic (definition pending) document yet are more than happy to quote Leviticus etc, even when in contradiction of the gospels we have today, which have no comment whatsoever.

                                                                                                                it's a big mishpocka.

                                                                                                                1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                  gourmanda Oct 28, 2013 08:37 AM

                                                                                                                  Let them out already!

                                                                                                                  1. re: gourmanda
                                                                                                                    hill food Oct 28, 2013 11:38 PM

                                                                                                                    maybe for Thanksgiving...

                                                                                                            4. JAB Oct 25, 2013 10:22 AM

                                                                                                              How exactly did these restaurant customers know his sexual orientation?

                                                                                                              11 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: JAB
                                                                                                                jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:24 AM

                                                                                                                To my knowledge Richard Simmons has never made any announcements, but I'd take that bet.

                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                  gaffk Oct 25, 2013 10:26 AM

                                                                                                                  I wouldn't. I went to school with guys who seemed much more feminine than I. They are, for the most part, married to women and have kids. Likewise I've known some pretty masculine-seeming women who are married to men and have kids.

                                                                                                                  I have learned to never make such assumptions based on appearances/mannerisms.

                                                                                                                  1. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                    fourunder Oct 25, 2013 10:33 AM

                                                                                                                    Having worked in the Hospitality business my entire life....I would not say never.

                                                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                    fourunder Oct 25, 2013 10:27 AM

                                                                                                                    That he's gay....or made any announcements?

                                                                                                                    1. re: fourunder
                                                                                                                      jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:30 AM

                                                                                                                      That he is gay. Obviously I don't know for sure.

                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                        fourunder Oct 25, 2013 10:33 AM

                                                                                                                        I'd Piggyback that bet...

                                                                                                                    2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                      JAB Oct 25, 2013 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                      I'd never make that leap. Could be an effeminate hetero or they could be effeminately asexual.

                                                                                                                      1. re: JAB
                                                                                                                        jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:32 AM

                                                                                                                        That's why I said I'd make a bet, a bet is NOT a guarantee. I didn't say Richard Simmons is gay, I just said in my OPINION his public persona would lead me to assume he is.

                                                                                                                        That is most likely how these customers ASSUMED the waiter was gay, which was your original question.

                                                                                                                      2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                        Bellachefa Oct 25, 2013 12:17 PM

                                                                                                                        I'd bet he is equally attracted to chubby housewives.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Bellachefa
                                                                                                                          jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 12:35 PM

                                                                                                                          If so, he has lived his dream.

                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                            Bellachefa Oct 25, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                            and good for him!!!

                                                                                                                    3. gaffk Oct 25, 2013 10:19 AM

                                                                                                                      How exactly did the diners know their server was gay?

                                                                                                                      3 Replies
                                                                                                                      1. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                        JAB Oct 25, 2013 10:22 AM

                                                                                                                        Great minds...

                                                                                                                        1. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                          mwk Oct 25, 2013 10:27 AM

                                                                                                                          Sometimes, it's obvious. And after reading the story, I don't see any denials from the waiter that he's NOT gay.

                                                                                                                          NB: I said SOMETIMES.

                                                                                                                          1. re: mwk
                                                                                                                            C. Hamster Oct 25, 2013 01:05 PM

                                                                                                                            You're right.

                                                                                                                            Sometimes it's very obvious. Many times quite deliberately.

                                                                                                                            And if he were not gay it likely would have been mentioned in the article.

                                                                                                                        2. linguafood Oct 25, 2013 10:06 AM

                                                                                                                          Well. It's Kansas, after all. And god. God makes every behavior excusable.

                                                                                                                          6 Replies
                                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                            jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:09 AM

                                                                                                                            LINGUA!!! (yes all cap's cause I'm yelling at you)

                                                                                                                            You were ready to hand me my head on a plate for trying to use the "It's Italy" explanation on Barrilla, but because this is Kansas you have more understanding?? Really??

                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                              linguafood Oct 25, 2013 10:16 AM

                                                                                                                              Dude. There's a whole book about Kansas that makes quite a few valid points.

                                                                                                                              I'm not personally excusing anyone's assy behavior for any reasons.

                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                jrvedivici Oct 25, 2013 10:27 AM

                                                                                                                                If you don't mind enlightening me, a book regarding Kansas and their anti gay views?

                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                  linguafood Oct 25, 2013 10:46 AM


                                                                                                                            2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                              chileheadmike Oct 25, 2013 12:43 PM

                                                                                                                              I'm from Kansas. In fact this restaurant is just a few blocks from where I used to live. I don't appreciate the generalization. There are those that prejudge everywhere. Chowhound too, apparently.

                                                                                                                              1. re: chileheadmike
                                                                                                                                hill food Oct 25, 2013 06:04 PM

                                                                                                                                yeah it's Overland Park, a fairly comfortable suburb of KC where you wouldn't expect such behavior. in this part of the world you can't equate the urban centers with the stereotype of the outlands.

                                                                                                                                yet I lived a number of years out in the Flint Hills and rarely encountered such bile.

                                                                                                                                assholes occur everywhere.

                                                                                                                            3. m
                                                                                                                              mwk Oct 25, 2013 10:05 AM

                                                                                                                              What they did is awful, but what angers me about it almost more than anything else is the fact that they are doing this in the name of God?

                                                                                                                              The perverted use of Christianity and God's name is the most disgusting thing about this. Those people wouldn't recognize Jesus if he turned their bathtub water into wine while they were bathing in it...

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