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How dark do you make your roux for gumbo?

Chinon00 Oct 15, 2013 06:13 PM

I've been on a gumbo trip for the past month and can't get it as intense as I'd like. I use a peanut butter colored roux w/ smoked turkey wings and lamb necks. It's good and I like it but if I take the roux to a darker color will that provide deeper flavor? And will I have to use more roux in the recipe to obtain the same thickening power?

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  1. Cherylptw Oct 15, 2013 06:34 PM

    I make mine the color of a old penny; if you make it darker, it will have a deeper flavor. You don't need any more roux, just cook it longer

    8 Replies
    1. re: Cherylptw
      Scrofula Oct 15, 2013 06:47 PM

      I've always heard that darker roux = more flavor, less thickening. So yes, I figure you'd have to use more to get the same thickening power.

      1. re: Scrofula
        Cherylptw Oct 15, 2013 07:02 PM

        I NEVER heard that darker roux equals less thickening; I've been making gumbo at least 25 years and have never experienced having to add more roux to make it thicker

        1. re: Cherylptw
          Scrofula Oct 15, 2013 07:13 PM

          Hmm. Alton Brown disagrees with you (http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season...), but he's been wrong before, and I'll bet you've made more gumbo than he has. That said, a Google search for 'roux darker thickening' has a bunch of pages saying the same thing.

          1. re: Scrofula
            Cherylptw Oct 15, 2013 08:59 PM

            Ya know, I do like Alton Brown but I don't use him as my authority; when I've made something over & over for so many years, I use my own trial & error and tend to lean on my own authority.

            1. re: Scrofula
              Soul Vole Oct 15, 2013 09:39 PM

              I've heard the same from multiple sources, like Harold McGee in On Food and Cooking: "Finally, the heat causes some of the starch chains to split, and then to form new bonds with each other. This generally means that long chains and branches are broken down into smaller pieces that then form short branches on other molecules. The short, branched molecules are less efficient at thickening liquids than long chains.... The darker the roux, the more starch chains are modified in this way, and so the more roux is required to create a given thickness."

              1. re: Soul Vole
                t
                tastesgoodwhatisit Oct 17, 2013 07:34 PM

                I've noticed this empirically - a very dark brown roux doesn't thicken as much as a lighter one.

            2. re: Cherylptw
              w
              wingsabre Oct 15, 2013 09:50 PM

              The darker you make a roux the less it thickens. What you get in flavor, you lose in thickening. With that said, gumbo is not dependent on roux for all it's thickening purposes. People use okra and/or sassafras to thicken their gumbo too. Just remember to cook the okra first before it's added to the gumbo to reduce the slime.

              1. re: Cherylptw
                alkapal Oct 16, 2013 06:27 AM

                the darker the roux means the longer you have cooked it, and that means the flour's qualities have changed to make it less thickening. i forget the technical term.

                i have learned this from my own experience, and in all the louisiana and new orleans cookbooks i have, including the original times-picayune cookbook, cotton country collection, river road recipes and scores of junior league cookbooks.

                here, just as an example, the dean of cajun cooking, chef john folse, says the same thing (as i'm sure emeril and paul prudhomme would agree): http://www.nicholls.edu/culinary/john...

                also, i remember where i first heard it -- it was the crazy cajun cook, justin wilson, who ga-ron-teed that his food was tasty! ;-).

                how dark i make it depends on the kind of gumbo for me.

          2. b
            BostonLover Oct 15, 2013 06:36 PM

            I always cook my gumbo roux to a copper penny shade, very dark. I do think it gives it a richer flavor. I haven't noticed any diminished thickening power, either.

            1. foodcompletesme Oct 15, 2013 06:43 PM

              I believe the correct answer is the roux should be dark brown.

              I am no expert, but I have a cookbook of recipes contributed by members of a junior league in Lafayette, Louisiana. Every one of the gumbo recipes states to cook the roux until it is dark brown. Some use margarine and flour, others oil and flour, most old-time traditional ones use lard and flour I think. All are equal part oil to flour.

              One of the recipes gives details: ...heat is medium to low, stirring constantly "when the roux is a rich dark brown, cut off the fire immediately, while continuing to stir. Add water to lower the temperature slightly so the roux will stop browning. Some people prefer to add a cup of chopped onion to lower the temperature. Either way, you continue to stir until the temperature is lowered sufficiently. Then you turn the flame on again under the pot and slowly add the rest of the ingredients for your gumbo."

              Happy gumbo-ing!

              4 Replies
              1. re: foodcompletesme
                t
                tastesgoodwhatisit Oct 15, 2013 06:52 PM

                The recipe I use tells you to add the chopped onion/celery/pepper mix as soon as the roux is at the right colour - that drops the temperature enough so that it stops browning.

                1. re: tastesgoodwhatisit
                  khh1138 Oct 18, 2013 06:02 AM

                  This is the technique we use in our house, too. It means you have to get all your chopping done in time for when the roux is ready!

                  1. re: khh1138
                    w
                    WNYamateur Oct 18, 2013 06:47 AM

                    I was born Irish Catholic,
                    And I thought I knew all about stew,
                    But nothing prepared me for the heavenly smell,
                    When the Trinity hits the roux.

                    1. re: WNYamateur
                      khh1138 Oct 19, 2013 12:32 PM

                      Wonderful! I'm stealing this as an incantation to say when I reach this step in my gumbo!

              2. r
                rockycat Oct 15, 2013 06:48 PM

                I once asked cooks competing at the Breaux Bridge Crawfish Festival. The answer was, "as dark as you like it is the right way." That being said, the way we like it is as close to black as you can get without actually being black.

                1. deet13 Oct 15, 2013 07:04 PM

                  I like to make my roux about as dark as chocolate, and yeah, the darker the roux, the deeper the flavor.

                  IMO, the only way to make a good dark roux for the gumbo is to practice making it a few times before you cook with it.

                  A well-made dark roux is literally a hairsbreadth away from being a pan-scorched clump of smoking flour and oil.

                  1. m
                    mwhitmore Oct 15, 2013 07:36 PM

                    Color of milk chocolate at least, preferably dark chocolate. I have found that darker thickens less.

                    1. a
                      ahuva Oct 15, 2013 08:01 PM

                      I usually go just about caramel colored

                      1. r
                        ricepad Oct 15, 2013 09:06 PM

                        Honestly, I make it as dark as my patience will allow. Sometimes that's very dark. Other times, not so much.

                        1. Chinon00 Oct 15, 2013 09:29 PM

                          Thanks all, darker it is.
                          Next question do you serve it w/ white rice, cheddar grits, or cornbread?

                          6 Replies
                          1. re: Chinon00
                            k
                            Kelli2006 Oct 15, 2013 10:19 PM

                            I make a chocolate roux and serve the gumbo with white long grain rice.

                            1. re: Chinon00
                              c
                              chloebell Oct 16, 2013 05:38 AM

                              Rice. No grits or cornbread. Rice, rice, rice! ;)

                              1. re: Chinon00
                                JungMann Oct 16, 2013 07:10 AM

                                Actually I like my gumbo Acadiana style with potato salad. Rice is okay, but never grits (too soft) or cornbread (too dry).

                                And +1 for the chocolate colored roux for deeper flavor with filé in the wintertime.

                                1. re: Chinon00
                                  deet13 Oct 17, 2013 06:33 PM

                                  Usually I serve gumbo with long grain rice.

                                  That said, I usually have cornbread on the side (non-sweetened cornbread), no matter what.

                                  1. re: deet13
                                    w
                                    WNYamateur Oct 18, 2013 06:48 AM

                                    Long grain yes, but basmati - smells like popcorn.

                                    Not an expert, but I believe that's authentic?

                                    1. re: WNYamateur
                                      deet13 Oct 18, 2013 06:35 PM

                                      My uncle's people are Cajuns from the Lafayette area, and they only thing I've ever seen them use is the cheapest long grain rice they can pick up at the grocery store.

                                      My cousin and a few of his good ol' boy buddies, whose parents btw were political refugees from South Vietnam, use broken rice (com tam) instead of long grain rice for their gumbo and jambalaya. It works pretty well with gumbo.

                                      IMO, that's as about authentic as you'll ever get with any kind of Cajun/Creole cooking.

                                2. h
                                  hyde Oct 16, 2013 02:51 AM

                                  I personally like it just a bit darker than Skippy, but thats personal preference.

                                  The real revelation was making roux in the oven:

                                  http://www.deepsouthdish.com/2009/03/...

                                  never burns, you dont have to stir constantly, I still dont leave the kitchen but its nice to be able to chop and prep everything else while its cooking. amazing.

                                  2 Replies
                                  1. re: hyde
                                    foodcompletesme Oct 16, 2013 05:35 AM

                                    thanks for sharing this great idea!
                                    I have the same issue with risotto...love it...but hate standing there stirring forever!!

                                    1. re: hyde
                                      m
                                      mwhitmore Oct 18, 2013 08:43 AM

                                      Wow, brilliant!

                                    2. FoodChic Oct 16, 2013 04:57 AM

                                      I make mine a dark mahogany color. I take it as far as I can before the roux burns. Just at that point I dump the veggies into the roux.

                                       
                                      1. monkeyrotica Oct 16, 2013 05:53 AM

                                        I've used Prudhomme's roux recipe for years, except I cook mine at a lower heat for a longer time (sometimes as long as 90 minutes) stirring constantly. There's a substantial difference between a dark brown and a black roux; one's more like a thick gravy and the other is far more intense. Once the vegetables hit, the sugars caramelize and it becomes really rich. I think it's worth the extra effort.

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3uGc...

                                        1. Monch Oct 16, 2013 06:01 AM

                                          Southern Foodways Alliance has an interesting "Gumbo Trail" section of their site:

                                          http://www.southernfoodways.org/oral-...

                                          I find the "How to Make a Roux" interview interesting.

                                          1. j
                                            jarona Oct 16, 2013 08:54 AM

                                            I make mine extremely dark...like melted chocolate. However, I babysit my roux b/c I need to keep stirring and stirring.
                                            Make it in a cast iron skillet. Use a wooden spoon. I do NOT answer the phone nor do I answer the door if someone comes a knockin'. My children (now grown and on their own) grew up knowing the roux-tine! Now when they come home and I'm preparing a roux for gumbo, the roux scent is one of their favorites--as my oldest son always says..roux smells like home!! They really do love that gumbo with the dark roux!
                                            The flavor IS stronger but it doesn't have the same thickening power.

                                            1. t
                                              travelerjjm Oct 16, 2013 09:18 AM

                                              I use a recipe from Francoise Le Vison. It is called "Black Roux Gumbo". So, I make a black roux. I like the very deep flavor of the black roux and I don't care about thickening.

                                              I serve over rice.

                                              1. tim irvine Oct 17, 2013 08:24 PM

                                                Interesting perspectives. First time I made it, about thirty-five years ago, somebody from Baton Rouge told me to start with half a cup of peanut oil and half a cup of flour and cook it very slowly until it was the color of weak American coffee. So I did. It took about half an hour. I added the trinity and other things from there and the issue of thickening the end product never even crossed my mind. It also never even occurred to me to serve it with anything other than long grain white rice. Now I feel like making gumbo.

                                                1. Chinon00 Oct 18, 2013 08:12 AM

                                                  Another question, do you use fresh or cooked andouille sausage?
                                                  Thanks

                                                  1 Reply
                                                  1. re: Chinon00
                                                    t
                                                    travelerjjm Oct 18, 2013 08:18 AM

                                                    I have used each, but now I cannot get fresh anywhere, so I use cooked. I actually prefer cooked, if they taste the same.

                                                  2. i
                                                    INDIANRIVERFL Oct 18, 2013 08:59 AM

                                                    As the LRHG Cajun taught me when introduced to home cooking, the darker the roux, the more fili powder needed to thicken.

                                                    Or add more okra.

                                                    1 Reply
                                                    1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                      alkapal Oct 21, 2013 07:37 AM

                                                      there ya go! and the filé added at the end. i'd rather just have more okra myself.

                                                    2. wekick Oct 19, 2013 05:56 PM

                                                      Has anyone microwaved a roux?

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: wekick
                                                        Scrofula Oct 19, 2013 11:22 PM

                                                        I haven't tried it, but it can be done:
                                                        http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/09/ch...

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