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Demeyere on Sale

DuffyH Oct 15, 2013 10:58 AM

Amazon is currently offering the Zwilling Sensation5 9.5" frypan for $79.95.

It appears to be a clone of Demeyere Industry5.

http://www.amazon.com/Henckels-Sensat...

I'm so tempted.

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  1. kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 15, 2013 12:36 PM

    Hi, Duffy:

    If you already have the 5*, why would you want this one? You starting a frying pan museum?

    Aloha,
    Kaleo

    10 Replies
    1. re: kaleokahu
      DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 15, 2013 02:19 PM

      Yes. I've been curating frying pans for years. I've finally decided to go pro.

      Also, I have the 5* in the 11". This is 9.5". HUGE difference. Huge!

      Okay, in the interests of full disclosure, I have a really hard time walking by cookware bargains. And this is a bonafide bargain, I'm thinking. Not a killer deal, but enough to tempt me.

      1. re: DuffyH
        Sid Post RE: DuffyH Oct 17, 2013 06:29 AM

        Don't worry Duffy, I suffer the same affliction. ;-)

        Between cast iron, De Buyer, and Demeyere with some random stainless pieces thrown in ....... it's a sickness really, ROFL ... evil laugh ......

        1. re: Sid Post
          DuffyH RE: Sid Post Oct 17, 2013 07:36 AM

          I was trying to cut back, Sid. Really I was. But I find I truly believe in having the right pan for each job. If that means 4 different kinds of pans in 3 sizes each, so be it.

          I balance it by only using stainless saucepans and limiting my arsenal to 3. Plus a sauté and a sauteuse. No need to go hog wild. ;)

          1. re: DuffyH
            kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 17, 2013 12:35 PM

            Hi, Duffy:

            Better get these then, too. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VISION-CORNIN...

            Aloha,
            Kaleo

            1. re: kaleokahu
              DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 17, 2013 01:51 PM

              Way ahead of you, Kaleo. I had a full set of Visions at one time. :-p

              What was I thinking?

              1. re: DuffyH
                rmarisco RE: DuffyH Oct 17, 2013 01:56 PM

                ok duffy... i have to admit i still have a visions piece. in fact, i searched high and low for it: it fits my solar oven and is the perfect thing to cook with for solar!

                The right pot for each job, indeed!

                1. re: rmarisco
                  DuffyH RE: rmarisco Oct 17, 2013 02:59 PM

                  I bought mine because everything releases so well from corning bakeware, and it cleans so easily... it sort of made sense at the time. Turns out, not so much.

                  But solar? Cool. Does the glass contribute to the heat build-up in your solar oven?

                2. re: DuffyH
                  kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 17, 2013 03:02 PM

                  Hi, Duffy:

                  OK, if the museum's Visions Wing is complete, how about this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BLACK... ?

                  And when will the Copper Wing be started (you can have the docents to the hand-washing)?

                  Aloha,
                  Kaleo

                  1. re: kaleokahu
                    DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 17, 2013 05:16 PM

                    Kaleo,

                    Ooh, thanks for that link! At 3 pounds, that's an interesting frypan. How non-stick is enamelware, do you think? It should work smashingingly on induction, yes?

                    Seriously, I'm planning to pick up an enameled steel roaster for Thanksgiving next year. If it was good enough for Grandma... :)

                    1. re: DuffyH
                      kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 19, 2013 07:19 PM

                      Hi, Duffy:

                      How nonstick? About like LC or Staub, i.e., not so much.

                      In the topsy-turvy world of induction, yes, thin enamelware would heat very quickly. But it would be the near-opposite of your Proline 5* insofar as it would not spread heat well. Such a pan would be an excellent test bed for the scorchprint donut of an induction coil--if it doesn't scorch a nice round print in a thin steel pan, the hob is pretty even.

                      Those enamelware roasters are fine in the oven (even if most are too tall to really roast). It's deglazing on the stovetop afterward that can be tricky--you're going to have a hotspot over the hob(s) and cooler zones elsewhere. But you can move the pan and adjust, as with managing a 12" CI skillet on an 8" hob.

                      You might consider one of those cool Airstream Trailer-looking Magnalite covered roasters like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WAGNER-WARE-M... That's the one Gran wanted...

                      Oops, not induction hob-compatible. Or a copper one. Oops, same issue. Dude can find you a converter plate though...

                      Seriously, the deBuyer carbon steel one would please you, I bet.

                      Whatever you get, buy now or wait until after the Holidays. Prices on better roasters start spiking about now.

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo

      2. c
        chefwong RE: DuffyH Oct 17, 2013 11:03 AM

        Apples 2 Apples. Does THIS HAVE the Silvinox Interior.

        This is 50% of the what Demeyere so great IMO

        11 Replies
        1. re: chefwong
          DuffyH RE: chefwong Oct 17, 2013 11:46 AM

          Silvinox. Check.
          Sigma 5-ply. Check.
          Flat Base Stability. Check.

          This is, as near as I can tell, Industry5 in another cloak. It has shot-blasted handles, but it doesn't have that cool little thumb rest.

          1. re: DuffyH
            Sid Post RE: DuffyH Oct 18, 2013 04:31 PM

            For $50~$100 off, I can add my own thumb rest if I need to. ;-)

            1. re: Sid Post
              DuffyH RE: Sid Post Oct 19, 2013 06:02 AM

              I agree. The thumb rest isn't properly positioned for my thumb anyway.

              Now the only remaining question... is this a piece I really need and will use? Likely not, with the 11" Proline at my disposal. My 10" SS frypan doesn't get much use now, nor did it really ever.

              I think I'd be better served by adding an ECI skillet and a wok or DB Force Blue country pan, along with a true nonstick for those times when nothing else will do.

              1. re: DuffyH
                Sid Post RE: DuffyH Oct 19, 2013 06:44 AM

                Enameled skillets? Hmm, I don't think I would really use one. I have used a small Le Creuset but, now that I have the Demeyer I don't see myself ever using it other than general curiosity. It's not that it is a bad skillet but, the fact I like my others better.

                The De Buyer "country pans" are really useful in my kitchen. I use mine a lot, in fact I just finished browning some boned stew meat this morning. Wilted greens work well in this style of pan too with its higher sides. I guess the real question is whether you would want to simmer acidic things in it for a long time. I wouldn't hesitate to cook a one skillet meal with tomatoes or citrus in it but, I would wash it out after "plating" whatever I cooked.

                1. re: Sid Post
                  DuffyH RE: Sid Post Oct 19, 2013 05:44 PM

                  Sid,

                  I haven't found the Demeyere to be any easier to clean, or less sticky, than my old 12" Calphalon Tri-Ply. I don't mean to say that it's hard to clean, but nothing special. Well, maybe it's a little less sticky. It does release better.

                  I truly value it's combination of thermal mass, responsiveness and excellent heat distribution.

                  I've heard that ECI can be a bit less sticky then SS, so thought it might be a good addition for starchy foods.

                2. re: DuffyH
                  kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 19, 2013 07:24 PM

                  Hi, Duffy:

                  An ECI skillet? Picture Col. Kurtz in the Cambodian jungle, pouring cool water over his dome, scowling, softly and repeatedly lisping "The horror."

                  Of course Kurtz loathed Visions, too...

                  Aloha,
                  Kaleo

                  1. re: kaleokahu
                    DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 19, 2013 08:35 PM

                    Hey Kaleo,

                    Well, I've never been a Brando fan. He didn't suck in Streetcar, but still.

                    A lot of people like ECI, for thermal mass and relative non-stick. I think the ticket to getting them just right is low heat. At least, that's what I've gathered from the folks who claim nothing sticks to them.

                    1. re: DuffyH
                      kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 20, 2013 08:35 AM

                      Hi, Duffy:

                      Well, you better get one to see how sticky ECI is. Enamel is strange--the jus runs right through the fat, too.

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo

                      1. re: kaleokahu
                        DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 20, 2013 10:01 AM

                        Kaleo,

                        <Enamel is strange--the jus runs right through the fat, too.
                        >

                        Huh?

                        1. re: DuffyH
                          kaleokahu RE: DuffyH Oct 20, 2013 01:09 PM

                          Hi, Duffy:

                          From James Peterson's tome, Sauces:

                          "Enameled cast iron is not suitable for roasting pans or saute pans because the juices from fish and meats do not adhere to it, making the separation of juices from the fat before deglazing difficult."

                          The same is true for enameled steel, enameled clad, etc.

                          Aloha,
                          Kaleo

                          1. re: kaleokahu
                            DuffyH RE: kaleokahu Oct 20, 2013 01:34 PM

                            Thanks, Kaleo.

                            To be honest, I've never given it much thought. If I'm roasting something that generates enough fat to care about, I deglaze, then dump everything into a fat separator and pour off the fat, leaving fond bits and liquid behind.

          2. l
            laraffinee RE: DuffyH Nov 14, 2013 10:34 PM

            Hmmm....as an absolute Demeyere fan, I would be interested to know how it cooks if you get one. I am wary of clones..... too many "looks like, sounds like".......but isn't.

            Did you get one? If you do, please write about it.

            17 Replies
            1. re: laraffinee
              DuffyH RE: laraffinee Nov 15, 2013 06:24 AM

              I have not bought it, since SOMEONE declared I could buy no more cookware until the new year. So I wait. And in the meantime, I thought to really investigate aluminum for it's weight advantage. Googling my little fingers to the bone, I found Mauviel M'Stone, which is intriguing.

              But the Zwilling does have Sigma 5-ply, a Silvinox finish, Flat Base technology and a shot blasted handle. Made in Belgium. Sure looks like a clone to me. Looking at the entire Sensation line, it also bears a strong visual reference to Industry 5, even using the same lid handles:
              http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/2...

              1. re: DuffyH
                m
                mikie RE: DuffyH Nov 15, 2013 07:18 AM

                Just got the Chefs catalog the other day and saw the Zwilling Sensation line. I have been purchasing Viking cookware, reportedly made by Demeyere, however, recently the cookware has been pulled from the Viking web-site and has been discontinued. A bit odd I thought since it is very good quality and has received good customer reviews as well as Cooks Illustrated review. Then I see the Zwilling Sensation, which appears to be all but identical to the Demeyere Industry 5 line and things start adding up. Zwilling now owns Demeyere along with a number of other companies. Brands:

                ZWILLING, J.A. HENCKELS INTERNATIONAL as well as MIYABI, Tweezerman, Jaguar, Tondeo, BSF, Demeyere, Staub

                So it would appear to me that Zwilling has commandeered production capacity from Demeyere, thus dropping Viking, to make the Zwilling Sensation line. My guess is that this pan is identical in construction to the Industry 5.

                1. re: mikie
                  DuffyH RE: mikie Nov 15, 2013 08:36 AM

                  Have you seen the Viking clearance prices on cutleryandmore? They're a bit lower than Amazon's prices, but still not the kind of price you'd expect if they want to move them quickly.

                  http://www.cutleryandmore.com/vcookwa...

                  1. re: DuffyH
                    m
                    mikie RE: DuffyH Nov 15, 2013 09:49 AM

                    I bought my pieces of Viking for less than those advertised at Prydes of Westport in KC, thing is they don't have the pieces I need now. I can hold out for lower prices to fill out the couple of pieces I'd like to have. Thanks for the heads up though!

                  2. re: mikie
                    l
                    laraffinee RE: mikie Nov 15, 2013 09:57 PM

                    Demeyere Atlantis is welded handle construction (no rivets), whereas the Viking line has rivets.

                    It appears that the Sensation5 line is also made with welded handles, but with 5 layers of material vs the 7 of the Atlantis line -probably not a big whoop as far as cooking results go.

                    Except for the special price on the Sensation5 skillet of the original post, the prices are just a touch less than the Atlantis. I bought every piece of Atlantis on sale/coupon etc. -still pricey stuff, but for me, if I were to get another item, I would go with Atlantis because I know it is fabulous cookware, and the small dip in price of Sensation5 is not enough to make me go with that line.

                    1. re: laraffinee
                      DuffyH RE: laraffinee Nov 16, 2013 06:31 AM

                      I may be in the minority here, but I prefer riveted handles. IME, welds fail more often than rivets. That's a general statement, not cookware-specific, but what I've seen in other applications.

                      Still, I think I'd be hard-pressed to notice a difference between Atlantis, I5, Viking and Sensation. I could also add Mauviel M'Cook and AC D5 to the list. Well, not so much on the AC, just because I hate the handles. I'd notice those.

                      1. re: DuffyH
                        Sid Post RE: DuffyH Nov 16, 2013 12:16 PM

                        If a welded handle on a Demeyere Atlantis pan failed, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a new pan in a non-commercial situation.

                        The more I use riveted handled pans after the welded handle pans, I am convinced more than ever I need to stay away from anything with rivets unless I have no other choice (i.e. tin lined copper cookware and De Buyer mineral pans).

                        1. re: Sid Post
                          DuffyH RE: Sid Post Nov 16, 2013 12:51 PM

                          I've little doubt Zwilling would replace it, but I've had experience in other products where welds have failed. Welds aren't a deal-breaker for me but, all things being equal, I prefer rivets.

                        2. re: DuffyH
                          l
                          laraffinee RE: DuffyH Nov 16, 2013 12:20 PM

                          Yah.....good welding doesn't fail. Even my over 35 year old Farberware which has welded handles and has suffered endless abuse in college, with teenagers etc, etc. and those handles haven't budged. I have given away my All-Clad, but not that old Farberware.

                          I don't know if one can detect a difference between cooking with all the lines you mentioned. I just know that Atlantis floats my boat and I love cooking with it so I am not going to mess with any "Almost Atlantis" lines.

                          1. re: laraffinee
                            DuffyH RE: laraffinee Nov 16, 2013 12:46 PM

                            <Atlantis floats my boat and I love cooking with it so I am not going to mess with any "Almost Atlantis" lines.>

                            I don't believe I compared anything to Atlantis. It's 7-ply, disk bottom, welded handles. I5 and Sensation are the lines I compared. I'm not sure why you think Sensation isn't an I5 clone. All the features that define I5 seem to be present in Sensation. Would you explain?

                            <good welding doesn't fail.> No more often than good rivets. I happen to prefer the rivets, you prefer the welds. Different cooks like different things. :)

                            1. re: DuffyH
                              l
                              laraffinee RE: DuffyH Nov 16, 2013 03:22 PM

                              Duffy, I'm one who respects and acknowledges your posts, so I don't want to get into some kind of prickly back and forth here, but you did say:

                              "Still, I think I'd be hard-pressed to notice a difference between Atlantis, I5, Viking and Sensation. I could also add Mauviel M'Cook and AC D5 to the list."

                              ...and that is why I brought up the difference. Like you said, rivets work and have for hundreds of years. I do prefer welded, but it is not a big deal either way.

                              1. re: laraffinee
                                DuffyH RE: laraffinee Nov 16, 2013 07:30 PM

                                I see. I thought that you thought... well, never mind. :)

                            2. re: laraffinee
                              m
                              mikie RE: laraffinee Nov 16, 2013 08:54 PM

                              Even good welds fail, at least occasionally. I've had handles come off of old Revere and my DIL dropped a Westbend pan and the handle poped right off. These are only spot welds, which are not all that strong. Spot welds break all the time on other items. I prefer the rivits, they just aren't a big deal to clean around for me. The welded handles of the Demeyere are not a show stopper, but between the Industry 5, Zilling Sensation, and the Viking, I prefer the Viking, mainly because I like the overall handle shape and texture better than the sand blasted Demeyere. The Atlantis is fantastic, but the large saute pan is just unbelieveably heavy and I was looking for surface area not depth, to the 6 qt Viking won that battle.

                              1. re: mikie
                                l
                                laraffinee RE: mikie Nov 16, 2013 11:14 PM

                                Let me first say, I am not against rivets, but, I just don't like them, Maybe because they remind me of the money I wasted on Alll-Clad, before I switched to Demeyere Atlantis. One of my close friends is a sculptor who welds for movie sets. He welds scaffolds and things that people's lives depend on Good welding can take a lot of abuse - a lot. - and Atlantis is welded very well.

                                Rivets are not usually made of the same metal as the body of the pan, resulting in a stretch - different expansion and contraction rate. Over time, this creates gaps. Cleaning issues aside, gaps create movement and movement of metals can lead to breakage.

                                Proper welding of like metals creates a coalescence of the metals into one cohesive piece.

                                1. re: laraffinee
                                  m
                                  mikie RE: laraffinee Nov 17, 2013 11:35 AM

                                  Ask your freind if he uses spot welds for his scaffolds. There is a big difference betweed the type of welding he does and the spot welds that hold handles on pans. Spot wleds are likely 4 little dots where the welding takes place. Also, I'll bet his scaffolds aren't a SS/Al laminate being welded to a cast SS handle. Different materials wled differently. It's not that the welds can't or won't last, but spot welds break often enough. If you want to know how hard some things are to weld, try welding a broken handle back on to a CI pan.

                                  You're right, rivits are rarely the same material as both the pan and the handle, as they are typically different materials in the first place. Even cald SS is Al on the inside and that's most of the thickness.

                                  I used to sell materials to the pot and pan manufacturers and they have tests they run to ensure the handles stay on when a pot is filled and the temperature is elevated. They are not 100% inspected though. Just like anything else, you can get a defective one.

                          2. re: laraffinee
                            c
                            chefwong RE: laraffinee Nov 17, 2013 06:32 AM

                            I have a large 13" Viking Saute Pan. I bought it for it's footprint....

                            It's not in the same league IMO as a non Silvinox All Clad or the Atlantis. It DOES not have a silvinox interior.

                            Given the 2 options, AC or Viking for a Riveted item, I would choose AC moreso for the warranty and support...

                            The Demeyere pieces I own - which is quite bit, IMO, 1/3 of the pan is all about the Silvinox...I'm ALWAYS amazed at how well it cleans.

                            1. re: chefwong
                              DuffyH RE: chefwong Nov 17, 2013 07:31 AM

                              I'm over the Silvinox finish on my Proline frypan. I'm finding it doesn't clean any easier than my old pans, and in fact is more prone to showing water spots. Perhaps it's the 12-year-old patina that makes them easier to clean, who knows?

                              Where it does excel is in cooking, and I think that's all because of it's construction. I do believe it releases better than my Calphalon Tri-Ply, but again, I think it's due to it's 7 layers v. the 3 layers of my other pan. Even on my cheap smoothtop range, it's easier to control the heat, bringing the entire pan up to temp and keeping it from getting out of hand, a too-common problem with radiant ranges.

                              It takes longer to heat, but that's a trade-off I'm willing to make. It's not unlike cast iron, but with faster response times.

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