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Pans worth buying?

I bough these pans:
http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-...
http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-...

I mostly use wooden spoon for cooking with these.

After 8 months they look like attached.
Is this normal or they just bad quality pans?

Would it be worth to go with these instead?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontina-...

What do you mostly use at home?
Stainless steal or some kind of Heavy-gauge hard-anodized aluminum?

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    1. I don't understand what I'm seeing in the third picture. Is that a hole in the outer layer of the pan? Did you overheat it?

      I have one Calphalon hard-anodized omelette pan which I like very much. It isn't this line, however — just the plain aluminum one.

      1 Reply
      1. re: GH1618

        it is not a hole, it is the part where darker material chipped off

      2. I would contact Calphalon. They generally have good service from my experience. I have had for several years (and still do) a few different pans and pots from a couple of different lines and have never had any sign of what your pix show.

        1. Well, usually I would say these stains (look to be oil stains) and marks to be very normal. However, I just realized that you said these are Calphalon unison nonstick cookware. So I will say this. If these stains are on the exterior of your cookware, then it is still normal. If the stains are on the interior of your cookware (like your first photo), then it is unexpected. That being said, it does not look that bad in your first photo. You may just need to clean the stain with either Bar Keeper's Friend solution or baking soda solution.

          As long as your nonstick pans are still nonstick, I don't think you need to replace them. Those looks to be normal oil stains.

          As for your Tramontina set, it is a good reputable set. However, it is also a very different cookware. Yours are Telfon nonstick with an aluminum core. The Tramontina set comprised of stainless steel triply cookware with an aluminum core. The major difference is nonstick surface vs stainless steel. They will cook very differently. Foods rarely stick to nonstick pans, but they easily stick to stainless steel surface cookware. Something to keep in mind.

          215 Replies
          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

            so the stains can be cleaned? also, i see most restaurants use stainless steal pans, any reason why?

            1. re: bwspot

              <so the stains can be cleaned?>

              Yes, if they are oil stains, then they can be cleaned. The tricky part is that we want to select a cleaner to remove the oil but without damaging your pans. For the exterior, you have an anodized aluminum, and for the interior, you have Teflon nonstick surface.

              You don't want to use ammonia or oven cleaners because they may be too aggressive for your pans, so let's start with something mild like baking soda solution or Bar Keeper's Friend solution. For baking soda solution, you can even heat it up to improve the cleaning ability.

              < also, i see most restaurants use stainless steal pans, any reason why?>

              Most restaurants use aluminum pans. They may look kind of like stainless steel cladded pans.

              http://www.tomcorsonknowles.com/blog/...

              I can talk about aluminum, but you may be more interested why nonstick pans are not used in restaurants. Some restaurants do use nonstick pans especially for eggs, but most of the time they don't. This is because nonstick pans are too delicate for most of the restaurant tasks. They are also too limited. For example:

              1) They cannot be used in high heat
              2) They cannot be used with metal utensils.
              3) They do not last nearly as long as aluminum or stainless steel cookware
              4) They may not survive long in industrial dish-washing machines.
              5) While they are easy to clean by hand, you cannot use strong solvent or strong tools to clean. For example, you can use a ball of steel wool to clean your commercial aluminum or stainless steel cookware if needed, but you cannot do that to a nonstick pan of the nonstick surface will be damaged....etc

              As for limitation, nonstick pans perform well for certain cooking tasks, especially eggs and sometime delicate fish, but they are not as good for meats in general.

              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                So what pans would you recommend for home use? I wonder if i should switch from nonstick? I personally don't like them that much. i wonder what would be the best mix of pans? I already have iron pan I use for steaks. Rest is non stick and i was thinking about upgrading it.

                1. re: bwspot

                  <So what pans would you recommend for home use?>

                  It depends. They all have their advantages. I would say that the two most popular choices these days are nonstick and stainless steel cladded cookware for pans. Nonstick pans are much easier to cook with (it has a zero learning curve) and very easy to clean by hand. Stainless steel cookware have much longer lifetime. It can withstand physical, temperature and chemical abuses which nonstick pans cannot. You can use metal tools. You can cook at much higher temperature. More importantly, you can produce better bits/browning for meats on a stainless steel pan than a nonstick pan. However, meat readily stick to stainless steel, so the skill requires to use it is higher.

                  <i wonder what would be the best mix of pans?>

                  I certainly think so. I personally like carbon steel and cast iron for pans. They can handle very high temperature and they are almost stickless -- not as nonstick as Teflon pans, but close. However, they require seasoning, and they are difficult to make sauce. But you already have one, so you know the whole story.

                  <i was thinking about upgrading it.>

                  I would suggest to just get one stainless steel pan -- fry pan or saute pan, and see if you like it. You don't even have to get a super expensive one to try. A $20-25 discount stainless steel pan from Home Goods or TJ Maxx will do.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                    Seems like carbon steel is the way to go.
                    I also see a lot of talk about Tri-Ply cladded? This would be still worse then carbon steel?

                    1. re: bwspot

                      Triply cladded cookware are often referred as stainless steel cookware. Most triply cookware look like this.

                      http://www.fryingpanreviews.net/wp-co...

                      Stainless steel on the exterior and interior surface with an aluminum core. This three-metal-layers construction is called triply.

                      As such, most people just call it "stainless steel" cookware. That being said, not all "stainless steel" cookware are triply, because there are 5-ply, 7-ply, disc bottom...etc. However, most triply (3-ply) are called "stainless steel".

                      <This would be still worse then carbon steel?>

                      I won't say one is worse than the other. That are just different. Carbon steel cookware are similar to cast iron in several ways. They both require seasoning. They both can rust if not taken care off. They both can handle very high heat, and remain fairly nonstick.

                      Triply cookware. Heat up more evenly with fewer heat spots. Can go inside dishwasher machines, can cook very acidic food, do not require seasoning, almost never rust...etc

                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                        i will give it a try to this one:
                        http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollr...

                        Regarding 3-ply probably i might try Tramontina,
                        Those that are not rated 3-ply are little worse quality?

                        1. re: bwspot

                          Vollrath should be good. They are real restaurant quality.

                          <Those that are not rated 3-ply are little worse quality?>

                          It depends who you ask. For example, 5-ply cookware are often even more expensive. All Clad d5 (5-ply) cookware cost more than All Clad stainless steel (3-ply) cookware, and All Clad claims the d5 to be slightly.

                          http://www.surlatable.com/category/ca...

                          However, many believe the whole 5-ply vs 3-ply is a dog and phony show.

                          Disc bottom (only cladded on the bottom and not the side) cookware are often cheaper and not as well made. Hopewell, disc bottom is not inherently worse. Demeyere, for example, makes very high quality and expensive disc bottom cookware.

                          http://www.amazon.com/Demeyere-Atlant...

                          Tramontina is definitely considered the one of the best value (best quality to price) ratio for triply cookware.

                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                            So for stainless steel only is it Tarmontina worth purchasing or it is better to buy something little more expansive? I don't have experience in both the carbon steel and stainless still but i don't like the feel of the pans i currently have, so i definately want to try, but i dont like to return stuff that i used so it is always good to make a first good choice.

                            1. re: bwspot

                              Carbon steel is very similar to cast iron (which you have) in term of maintenance. I don't think you will have any problem. It is actually a bit easier to use because carbon steel is not as brittle as cast iron, and carbon steel cookware are usually made thinner, and therefore lighter.

                              In term of stainless steel triply, something like Demeyere is on the high end. All Clad is also considered to be on the top as well. For cheaper triply cookware, we have Calpahlon Triply, Cuisinart Multiclad, and Tramontina, and Tramontina is the cheapest. You can get a small set for $130.

                              http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontina-...

                              $130. That is a good deal. Just remember, a single saute pan from Demeyere is $380:

                              http://www.amazon.com/Demeyere-Atlant...

                              Because you have not used a stainless steel cookware before, I think Tramontina is a good choice. However, don't overlook Calphalon Triply or Cuisinart MultiClad. I often find them on sale at TJ Maxx and HomeGoods.

                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                thanks for your help i will get 11" Vollrath to try and probably go with Tramontina. I am trying to become more productive and better cook and i mostly believe that knowledge, experience and taste are the most important skills, but it is good to have good tools for the job too.

                                1. re: bwspot

                                  One last thing, you can always borrow your friend's stainless steel pan just to try. You can either borrow the actual pan, or you can go over there cook with your friend in his/her kitchen. Have fun.

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                    turns out that my defected pans can be exchanged for anything i want. So i got 150 credit and i can get some stainless steel stuff at bed and beyond. Anything you would go for?

                                    http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store...

                                    1. re: bwspot

                                      < So i got 150 credit>

                                      Your Calphalon pan worth $150?!

                                      Anyway, if you like the higher end, then go for All Clad, but beware. All Clad has a rather painful handle for some people, so test out if you are ok with the All Clad handle.

                                      I know BedBathandBeyond also offers Calphalon Triply, Calphalon Contemporary, Cuisinart MultiClad, and Emilware.....etc.

                                      Personally, I would recommend (1) Calphalon Triply, (2) Calphalon Contemporary and (3) Cuisinart MultiClad. I would ask you to look at these three brands and hold them and look at them closely, and see which one fits your style the best.

                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                        150 as i am returning all of them 3 nonstick i bought.(my initial post has the links of what i have now)
                                        they can exchange for anything i want.

                                        1. re: bwspot

                                          Great point about the handles. Once you told me I went to store on the way from work and it is hard to like any handles.
                                          I noticed that All Clad seams to be lighter then Calphalon. Calphalon also has different steal color. More mate. That actually may be better for cleaning? The Emilware handle was probably the best but the pans have little different shape then other with less cooking space but very lighter then Calphalon and similar to All Clad.

                                          1. re: bwspot

                                            Did you get to see the two Calphalon triply line? One is called the Calphalon Triply, and the other is called Calphalon Contemporary. They are about the same quality. Mostly different in style.

                                            http://l4.zassets.com/images/z/1/6/9/...

                                            http://img1.wfrcdn.com/lf/49/hash/128...

                                            Finally, as for Emirlware, there is the disc bottom line and the triply line.

                                            Disc bottom line looks like this:

                                            http://www.emerilware.com/cookware_de...

                                            The full triply line looks like this:

                                            http://www.emerilware.com/cookware_de...

                                            Between the two, you may want to lean toward the fully triply line aka Emirlware ProClad.

                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                              Yes i have seen Contemporary and Triply. I liked Triply better. Less heavey. For the Emiriware i saw the one with disc bottom. Why the disk? I must check the Emiriware ProClad. Is Emiriware any good brand? Their pans are actually little different in shape.

                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                I also started to consider Tramontina set, I might just replace stuff i have to something i would not get from Tramontina set. i see lots of very good reviews about Tramontina. Is it just the price or they are good.

                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                  < For the Emiriware i saw the one with disc bottom. Why the disk?>

                                                  Disc bottom is (usually) a cheaper and easier construction.

                                                  <Is Emiriware any good brand?>

                                                  I would say that Emirlware is an ok brand. I have never heard really bad or really great things about them. They are cheaper than Calphalon and Cuisinart.

                                                  <Is it just the price or they are good.>

                                                  I would go to Walmart and take a look. I think Tramontina quality is close to Cuisinart MultiClad and Calphalon Triply, but cheaper and much cheaper than All Clad.

                                                  So I will say that Tramontina is good, but far from the best, but the price is just so attractive. You can get a small set of Tramontina cookware and is still cheaper than one All Clad saute pan.

                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                    Heading to Macy to take a look at all of them. This pan research is fun. I have learned so much here. Thank you

                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                        After browsing for some time I see two options for me. Either Caphalon or All Chad. I also saw different type of All Chad. Mc2, D5 and try-ply. Is it worth to consider D5 or MC2?
                                                        They have brushed look and i wonder it this is easier to clean? Whats the benefit?

                                                        3 qt
                                                        http://www.estore.all-clad.com/Collec...

                                                        8 and 10"
                                                        http://www.estore.all-clad.com/Collec...

                                                        thats 400 total, so thats expense (the saucier by itself is 190

                                                        )

                                                        Later i would get 11" skillet as they have nice surface arena and that would work great for frying bigger items i cook
                                                        http://www.estore.all-clad.com/Collec...

                                                        if i go with calphalon then
                                                        http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-...
                                                        http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-...
                                                        http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-...

                                                        still thinking if i actually need 8" as thats the one i use less then others

                                                        for the carbon steel experiment i will go with
                                                        http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollr...

                                                        of course i still need to check the Tramontina at Walmart

                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                          I have MC2. The exterior is plain aluminum. It is definitely not easy to clean. The exterior will stain and it is a lot of work to remove them. Even then, a used MC2 pan will never look new. I like them because they have more aluminum and I don't care what the exteriors look like.

                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                            You know the standard All Clad stainless steel already. It is Exterior: stainless steel
                                                            Core: aluminum
                                                            Interior: stainless steel-interior
                                                            like this picture:
                                                            http://www.fryingpanreviews.net/wp-co...

                                                            MC2 is
                                                            Exterior: aluminum
                                                            Core: aluminum
                                                            Interior: stainless steel
                                                            http://www.all-clad.com/SiteCollectio...

                                                            d5 is 5-ply or 5-layer
                                                            stainless steel-aluminum-steel-aluminum-stainless steel.
                                                            http://www.all-clad.com/SiteCollectio...

                                                            MC2 actually will performance as good or slightly better than the standard stainless steel All Clad in term of heat distribution and heat response. However, MC2 is not dishwasher safe, and is not induction ready. It also will likely discolor quicker.

                                                            d5 is a debatable. All Clad claims this 5-ply design yields better heat distribution, but I am not entire convinced. That being said, it is only slightly more expensive, so it is not a much higher cost investment. d5 also has other minor benefits such as a roll lid for easy pouring, and a gentler handle -- supposedly anyway. Overall, it is a small upgrade.

                                                            <They have brushed look and i wonder it this is easier to clean? Whats the benefit?>

                                                            It is not easier to clean, but it is easier to hide scratches. All cookware will acquire scratches over time, but a brush exterior usually is better at hiding light scratches.

                                                            Tramontina is completely different. Tramontina is not going to be as good as All Clad (except maybe the handle -- which I personally think everyone is better than All Clad), but Tramontina is just very affordable and at the same time very functional. I like to think of it comparing a Honda to a BMW. A BMW is definitely nicer, but a Honda will get you anywhere just like a BMW.

                                                            Edited: I agree GH wholeheartedly about MC2. I think it is up to you to decide what you can live with and what you cannot live with. MC2 will perform better, but will require more caring.

                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                              just on the side note for the steal copper i wonder if i should just go straight to the best a purchase this:
                                                              http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002...

                                                              or this:
                                                              http://www.webstaurantstore.com/carbo...

                                                              is just enough and similar quality

                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                I have a DeBuyer pan, not the same one you have. DeBuyer has a very good reputation for making good carbon steel pans. So I will say that the DeBuyer pan is a bit better and probably a bit thicker too. However, for testing, I think the $6 will do just fine.

                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                  so what is the real deal between expensive carbon steal and cheaper one? $60 vs 7$ or there is more to it?

                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                    DeBuyer carbon steel pans are a bit thicker compared to other pans (I cannot speak of this particular $6 one -- which is cheaper than the typical $30 carbon steel pan). Debuyer pans are also more refined. The edge is smoother, the handle is smoother....etc.

                                                                    These $20-40 carbon steel pans are really designed for restaurants where cooks will use a cloth or a gel pad to hold the pan, and they won't babysit the pans.

                                                                    You can always strike at the middle. Vollrath and Lodge have gotten some nice reviews for their carbon steel pans, and they are not as expensive as DeBuyer.

                                                                    http://www.amazon.com/Vollrath-58910-...

                                                                    http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-CRS10-Pre...

                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                      so with the Debuyer i can hold it with my hand with no glove?

                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                        Hmmm....I can and many can too, but some people still don't find it comfortable enough. Still, it is not like it can cut your skin. I think some of the really cheap one is not polished, so the edge can be a bit sharper.

                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                          I was just watching a video how to season Vollrath pan and i did not know that after property seasoning they turn black on the inside like a non stick surface. (I have been cooking too long on nonstick)

                                                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoIO8Y...

                                                                          De buyer on the other side does not look black after seasoning in this video
                                                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQwCiY...

                                                                          I am still deciding on choosing property my new set and what sizes i should select based on previous cooking experience and needs. So far the list has 3qt stainless steal saucier (risottos, pastas,etc), 11inch stainless steel skillet over 12" pan due to bigger surface area and as it is skillet less splashing (frying breaded items, etc), and 8, 10 or 11 inch carbon steal pan. Seems like this would server for omelette, crapes, smaller meat or fish items.
                                                                          And i will keep my iron skillet for searing stakes other stuff.

                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                            <Vollrath pan and i did not know that after property seasoning they turn black on the inside like a non stick surface. ...
                                                                            De buyer on the other side does not look black after seasoning in this video>

                                                                            I think that just depends on how many seasoning layers and what temperature you do your seasoning. It has nothing to do with DeBuyer vs Vollrath. If you put multiple layers (multiple iterations), then you will end up with a darker pan. Higher temperature and longer time also tend to yield dark pans as well.

                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                              So if Vollrath company recommends to season 11 times in the row, is not the same procedure required for all pans? When the pan is seasoned so many times it becomes black and its surface looks so smooth and nice. I am just curious how property they should be season to get the most out of them.
                                                                              Also, what size yout hing would be the most useful for the carbon steal. 11 or smaller?

                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                bw,

                                                                                You have a cast iron pan, right? You can use your existing method.

                                                                                <So if Vollrath company recommends to season 11 times in the row, is not the same procedure required for all pans? >

                                                                                Seasoning is subjective. There is no one single way to do it, so every companies have slightly different recommendations. I would recommend to season a pan at least 2 times, but no more than 5 times. I just want to season the cookware enough that I can start cooking (without sticking). From then on, the cookware will get seasoned as they are being cooked on. In other words, cooking and seasoning at the same time. No extra work is needed. I personally prefer stovetop seasoning (as opposed to oven seasoning), and I prefer higher temperature seasoning over lower temperature seasoning. However, plenty people swear that the opposite are better, so do what you are most comfortable.

                                                                                I have a 10" pan. In hindsight, I think a 11" or 12" diameter pan would be better for me.

                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                  so i went with Vollrath 11"
                                                                                  http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vollr...
                                                                                  vollrath support told me regaring seasoning and layers:
                                                                                  "
                                                                                  Please see the response from our corporate trainer (the gentleman in the video).

                                                                                  Flaxseed oil is highly preferred because it adheres and bonds to the carbon steel pan the best.
                                                                                  I've found several thin coats are easier to apply and yield a more consistent result. Trying to rush things and say using too much oil results in a gummy tacky surface. I just think several small coats is easier and more repeatable for anyone to do. This is the only reason.
                                                                                  "

                                                                                  skillet 11"
                                                                                  http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/al...

                                                                                  ON SALE NOW!!!

                                                                                  and for the old pans at bedbathandbeyond i ordered:
                                                                                  http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store...

                                                                                  Still not sure if any of above will work fine for omelets and pancakes which i cook a lot, but i must try first how it cooks with above.

                                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                                    <Flaxseed oil is highly preferred because it adheres and bonds to the carbon steel pan the best. >

                                                                                    The flaxseed approach has been mentioned many times on the internet. Sheryl is one of the first (if not the first) who promoted this approach.

                                                                                    http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/201...

                                                                                    Even Cook's Illustrated tested this:

                                                                                    http://www.cooksillustrated.com/howto...

                                                                                    In my opinion, it works, but it is also overrated. Most cooking oils will work quite well. Flaxseed may have a small advantage in the beginning, but in the long run, it does not matter.

                                                                                    <Trying to rush things and say using too much oil results in a gummy tacky surface. >

                                                                                    I agree this -- no question. The number one mistake people make is to over-oiled the pan before seasoning -- apply too much oil.

                                                                                    <ON SALE NOW!!!>

                                                                                    Hey, that is a nice deal.

                                                                                    <Still not sure if any of above will work fine for omelets and pancakes which i cook a lot>

                                                                                    Well, ironically, the best pans for eggs and omelets and even pancakes are Teflon nonstick. The next best is a carbon steel or cast iron pan. It takes more skill to get a nice omelet from a stainless steel surface pan than a carbon steel pan because egg and many foods readily stick to stainless steel.

                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                      <Well, ironically, the best pans for eggs and omelets and even pancakes are Teflon nonstick. The next best is a carbon steel or cast iron pan. It takes more skill to get a nice omelet from a stainless steel surface pan than a carbon steel pan because egg and many foods readily stick to stainless steel.>

                                                                                      Yes, when i watch shows like master chef (British version) i see they mostly use non-stick. I could not find any videos showing making omelets on carbon steel.

                                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                                        Most likely those chefs could easily make an omelette on carbon steel, but they don't do it for the show because they know that most of the audience won't be using it.

                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                          Check video done on a cast iron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjgP-6..., I actually like that guy approach way more than Sharil Canter - just start cooking with your CI after initial seasoning
                                                                                          http://www.richsoil.com/cast-iron.jsp

                                                                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                          I'm just wondering why you say the best pans for eggs and pancakes are nonstick?

                                                                                          1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                            Certainly easier. It can be difficult to cook eggs and pancakes on stainless steel surface because they tend to stick.

                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                              Were not the original omelets make on carbon steal , steal or iron pans?

                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                Yes. Original omelets pans are made on carbon steel mostly. In fact, many people still believe in making crepes on carbon steel. Therefore, many delicate things are made on carbon steel surface.

                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                  so it is just tradition i guess, but in real life new surface like non-stick is superior to carbon steal in regards to making pancakes or omelets? I don't have experience so i don't know, but my first carbon steal pan arrived today so i will experiment with it. Also, for the pancake pan i see good reviews for:
                                                                                                  http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO...

                                                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                    <but in real life new surface like non-stick is superior to carbon steal i>

                                                                                                    If you mean by nonstick or ease of use, yeah, the Teflon nonstick is more nonstick and easier to use than carbon steel. However, carbon steel can handle higher temperature (which is not needed for eggs), and carbon steel can form better bits and browning.

                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                      In addition to my stainless steal skillet 11" i will have to add some new non-stick pan for omelets and crepes i guess. I am still willing to try Du Buyer for crepes as they are not that expensive compared to mineral B version I did not like the calphalon for one reason. The surface was getting scratchy nevertheless the fact i would only use wood or plastic utensils. For items that require little more oil to deep fry i will experiment with new carbon steal pan as their working surface is much less compared to my new all clad 11" skillet i am getting and i would not have to put lots of oil.

                                                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                        Don't get me wrong. You can make omelets and crepes on a carbon steel pan. I do. Another advantage of a carbon steel pan is that it lasts much longer than Teflon nonstick pan.

                                                                                                        But if you ask me which one is more nonstick, then I will tell you that Teflon nonstick is more nonstick than carbon steel or cast iron.

                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                          I tried my new stainless steal skilled and cooked chicken on it. It turned out great. I used leftovers grease on the pan to make the reduction sauce. Now i need to learn how to clean that pan to keep in in great condition. What i did so far is put some water into the pan and cleaned the surface with wooden spoon. They i washed it with little soap and hot water. Is this the optimal way of cleaning it or am i doing it wrong?

                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                            Yeah, I think you method will work very well. Hot water also help too. If the pan is a bit too difficult to clean, then I sometime just add a bit water, bring it to a boil and let is sit and cool.

                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                              So the Vollrath wants to use flax seed oil for seasoning.
                                                                                                              I found this at home:
                                                                                                              http://dannyspharmacy.com/vitamins-nu...
                                                                                                              Is this the same thing?
                                                                                                              Web search says they same but are they?

                                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                I'd find out if it's refined. That "refrigerate after opening" note makes me think it may be unfiltered and/or unrefined. You'll notice on this page http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/collec... that unrefined oils have very low smoke points.

                                                                                                                I looked on Amazon. Several Flaxseed oils that appear to be similar to the one you're showing are listed as unrefined.

                                                                                                                http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Sup...

                                                                                                                http://www.amazon.com/Barleans-Organi...

                                                                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                    Unrefined flaxseed has a very low smoke point, about 225ºF. I'm unable to google the refined smoke point, but as an example of how refining affects smoke point, look at what I found for canola:

                                                                                                                    Canola Oil: Unrefined 225 F
                                                                                                                    Semi-Refined 350 F
                                                                                                                    Refined 400 F

                                                                                                                    Basically, unrefined oils aren't well suited to the temps needed to season a pan. So, yes, it does need to be refined.

                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                      The one i have i have no idea if it is refined or not. I will just get one at store that has "refined" word on the label. Time to season my new pan and stop talking!!!

                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                        Went to few stores and could not find it.
                                                                                                                        Need to check if Whole foods has it.

                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                          Walmart sells organic flaxseed oil in the pharmacy area where the supplements are. That is where I get mine. It works just as well as the really high grade expensive stuff I bought when I first was obsessed with getting it "perfect".

                                                                                                                          These are my two carbon steel fry pans seasoned with Wallymart flaxseed oil. They are no-name cheapies I got off eBay (do a search for FSFP "French style fry pan" and you'll find them). I am sure your pan is very fine, I went with a cheapie because it was $12 with shipping for a 13" pan! I couldn't pass that up! That and the fact I had never cooked with them before, It was a perfect "buy it to try it" price!

                                                                                                                          I use the 13 inch pan for potatoes fried in schmaltz (chicken fat) and grilled cheese (absolutely nothing grills a grilled cheese like this pan!) It warped and had a wobble to it pretty quickly so I flipped it over and gave it a good whack with my meat tenderizer. (I think that both amazed and terrified my two dinner guests who had just wandered over after happy hour). Sits flat enough now! The more I use and abuse it, the more I love that thing. I do need to find a silicone grip for the handle though - I got a couple of nasty blisters from flipping a large batch of potatoes in it.

                                                                                                                          The smaller seven inch pan I almost never use. I bought it thinking it would be a nice crepe pan, but have found I prefer hard anodized aluminum for that task. I think it will get donated to a co-worker who is moving into her own place and in need of some cookware.

                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                          1. re: CaliforniaJoseph

                                                                                                                            Your post had me in tears... can just imagine banging away with meat tenderizer. I've always used canola or veg oil to season woks and bacon fat for cast iron (seems appropriate) but am looking forward to trying flaxseed oil on 2 CS pans that should be arriving any day...

                                                                                                                            1. re: AaronE

                                                                                                                              Oh bother! I have forced yet another sentient being to tears... If it makes you feel the least bit better, let me underscore this was an "experiment pan" - an eBay cheapie that was actually so cheap the seller revised his/her shipping afterwards >$13 TOTAL.

                                                                                                                              My Thinking: So take some joy in creating something you are proud to hang from your pot rack as an heirloom in creation you are using to develop skills. Sure I spanked the pot (sounds naugjhty!), but I also created my pasion for hand-cut potatoes sauteed in home-rendered smalls. And let me tell ya, I have put on a heck of a show for guests pan flipping taters in a 12" pan that was so rustic and hard working.

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                        2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                          according to:
                                                                                                                          http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/201...

                                                                                                                          seems like it does not have to be refined version

                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                            Apparently not. Canter writes: "I paid $17 for a 17 ounce bottle of cold-pressed, unrefined, organic flaxseed oil."

                                                                                                                            Apologies. In the kitchen universe, low smoke point has traditionally been associated with BAD for cooking. I'm so used to reaching for a high smoke point oil anytime I'm near heat that it never occurred to me it WOULDN'T matter for seasoning, because what's bad for cooking must be bad for seasoning, yes?

                                                                                                                            Thanks for helping me learn something new.

                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                              so i purchased this oil:
                                                                                                                              http://www.amazon.com/International-C...

                                                                                                                              i took the pan out of foil. Cleaned it with water and little soup.
                                                                                                                              Warmed it up. Put little oil and left on medium for 5-7 min.
                                                                                                                              Waited until it was cooled and repeated 8 times.
                                                                                                                              This is what i got so far.

                                                                                                                              I plan to do it few more times.
                                                                                                                              But it does not look like as on the video provided by Vollrath.
                                                                                                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoIO8Y...

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                better quality

                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                  attached better quality photos

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                    attached better quality photos

                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                      sorry , something went wrong and my post was duplicated few times.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                        Your pan looks pretty good to me, and ready to use. Go for it!

                                                                                                                                        As for it not looking like Chef Rich's pan, he heated his pan until it was plenty hot on high, not medium. It was already turning amber before he applied any oil. He also brought the oil to it's smoke point. In the second pass, you can see the smoke in the video quite clearly. A lot of smoke.

                                                                                                                                        I've only seasoned 2 carbon steel pans, a Force Blue and a Carbone. So you know I'm no expert. My Carbone pan looked much worse than yours when I began cooking on it, with less seasoning. They still look pretty funky. The brown one is my Carbone, the blackish one is Force Blue. The seasoning isn't that much more advanced on the FB, it's just that the pan is dark blue-gray to begin with.

                                                                                                                                        The point is that expertise isn't needed and they've been a joy to cook on, except for a couple of operator errors, right from the start. Enjoy tomorrow's breakfast! :)

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                          Yes, soon i will try it. I wanted to make it perfect before I start using it. I know it is crazy approach, but why not try it to season it to the highest standards and then start using it.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                            It is probably not a good idea, I don't aim for a shiny black surface any longer because in a past I ended up several times with a perfectly looking skillet , but after cooking of couple of dishes that shiny black seasoning started to peel off. Nowadays I just make my skillets fit to cook and start cooking food which doesn't ooze juices till the surface gets really strong. Naturally occurring seasoning has more chances to be perfect , and highest standards are more likely be achieved through a frequent use.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                              Yep, i agree. After few times of cooking on seasoned pan, the nice black seasoning started to peel off, so whats the point? The omelet did its damage and nevertheless the fact there was batter on pan, seasoning started to peel off.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                Yes, it is what it is. Another positive side of a light seasoning is that initial unavoidable scratches don't look so annoying, heal well with continues use and blend in into slightly uneven background. I even think about that naturally occurring unevenness as being beautiful and interesting. I still keep thick black seasoning on the outside of my pans in order not to worry about rust, and it holds really well on all my pans. Many of us got carried away by Sheryl Cantor blog-posts, but later came back to the realization that fussing too much about cast iron and carbon still can be just counterproductive or even frustrating.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                  <fussing too much about cast iron and carbon still can be just counterproductive or even frustrating.>

                                                                                                                                                  So true! A year ago when I began cooking on carbon steel, I worried and fussed over my seasoning WAY too much. Almost every time I put it away, I'd add oil, wipe it out, heat the pan, add more oil, wipe it, cool it, wipe it, ad nauseum. It really made no difference in pan performance.

                                                                                                                                                  Scratches! OMG, the seasoning is RUINED! Well, not so much as it turns out. I was given the usual 'Hound advice, "Relax, just cook on it." Everyone was right, the scratches didn't affect cooking one little bit. And now, I can't even remember where they were. No matter, I'll get some new ones sooner or later.

                                                                                                                                                  My biggest takeaway from the hours I've spent pouring over blogs, articles and threads on seasoning is that there's no one method to get a perfect seasoning. In fact, I'm convinced there's no such thing as a perfectly seasoned pan. My pans are ugly, ugly things, but continue to perform for me like I'm the best chef in the world.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                    Many of us (me definitely) just experienced some sort of "neophyte rage" for a while being too exited about our "new" discovery - great CI after years of frustration the non-stick pans were giving to us. It happened soon after I realized that animal fats and red meat were good for us, especially if grains, starches and sugar were limited. It looked for me like two stupid delusions were intertwined together - the fear of fat and animal products and that damned non-stick skillets getting worse with every use (but didn't need a fat to function at the beginning, and didn't need any skills to use).
                                                                                                                                                    Probably, out of all things I read, that guy was the most useful http://www.richsoil.com/cast-iron.jsp,

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                      I do like his approach, and that of the woman in the video link. just laid back, and easy. It's not rocket science, is it? :)

                                                                                                                                                    2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                      That's why i like de buyer instructions for seasoning. Simple. No science and magic around it. I should never got into that perfect seasoning crap. Waste of time.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                        So, how are you liking your pan?

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                          So far so good. It is definitely different feel. Vollrath carbon steal heats up very fast. I made few things on it only so far, like stake, omelet and even tried to cook the crepes on it, but i prefer the blue steel de buyer pan for crepes. Regarding stainless steal i used it for making chicken with slow cooking method and i made some pasta in my saucier. Personally, i though the 3 quart saucier would be big enough, i find it a little small.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                            Actually, I don't know why people have so much troubles with crepes. I did it on everything, including ss with copper bottom. Well, sometimes the first one will stick, but that is all. Omelet is a different story.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                              I dont have issues with making crepes on any pan, but i can see slight difference between my old non stick, new carbon steel and de buyer. I personally prefer the texture that comes out of de buyer pan. It is not that it is sticks, its more of the way the crepe cooks.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                <I personally prefer the texture that comes out of de buyer pan. It is not that it is sticks, its more of the way the crepe cooks.>

                                                                                                                                                                I'm not sure if the pan had anything to do with it, or if it's simply that I'm a marginally better cook now than I was 30 years ago, but my first crepe attempt in my DB FB crepe pan was an epic success. They were gluten free, too. Can't wait to try them with wheat flour.

                                                                                                                                                                I happen to think eggs taste better coming out of it, too, but that could be a psycho effect. :)

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, I agree, the way how it cooks and how crust develops depends on a pan. I actually liked the result of the use of SS with a thick copper bottom - super even browning, but a cast iron is complitely sticking-proof+ it is good for the pan seasoning.
                                                                                                                                                                  I recently had to find a good variation of gluten-free cripes because my son found out eating in a such way cleared his eczema. He is on a picky side, lacto-fermented buckwheat till it gets stinky. seems to work. When I cook it , the air in a kitchen smells like a cheese

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                    I made the cornstarch crepes and was surprised at how good they were, especially when compared to so many other GF grain products.

                                                                                                                                                                    It was kind of on a whim, because again, Mom never taught me the first thing about making them, and I had this new-ish DeBuyer crepe pan. I figured it was worth a shot, and they turned out perfect, even the first one.

                                                                                                                                                                    I credit today's cooks and cookbook authors, who give a lot more detail than in days past. Like refrigerating the batter. My 40 year old Betty Crocker cookbook doesn't have that bit of advice. It doesn't suggest letting biscuits rest, either. And this is a cookbook designed for beginning cooks.

                                                                                                                                                                    Back on topic, one year later, I LOVE both of my DeBuyer crepe pans. They not only make terrific crepes but they excel at eggs and toasted sandwiches. I also prefer hash browns in them over my cast iron, they seem to require less oil and come out with a more crusty exterior.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                      I grew-up in a cold climate, and it was considered that a food should be hot and savory, as opposite to sweet treats and deserts. Breakfast could be on a sweeter side..We also made crepes fresh, but batter was kept for long periods.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                        Those crepes with watermelon was a rare treat, and the only sweet dinner or lunch I can recall. My midwestern Mom only baked sweets around the holidays. Funny, to this day I seldom make a dessert. Once in a great while I'll bake cookies or brownies.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                          O, I am not criticizing at all, watermelon and crepes sounds like a treat for me too, however in my mind caviar with cripes is an ultimate blow-me-away food. Like some people have a sweet tooth, my tooth is salty.
                                                                                                                                                                          With my son going gluten-free and my husband disliking chocolate, the holiday treat food I bake nowadays is an Alton Brown cheese cake. I am considering cookies made with ground nuts as an addition.

                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                        I think I should be getting a carbon still pan to make more perfectly shaped omelets (slanted sides), but I feel sort-of guilty to bring even more skillets into my household.

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                  A lot of the trouble with crepes, at least for me, has to do with viscosity, not sticking. Until recently, my batters were almost always too thick. Mom's, on the other hand, were always perfect. But when I'd ask for her recipe, she was less than helpful, telling my "You just make them, no recipe". And "You'll know when they're right." Right.

                                                                                                                                                                  Crepes is one dish that I tried a couple of times early in life, then gave up. I imagine a lot of young cooks have a similar story. I tried them again last year, and they were perfect the first time.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                    Probably, she doesn't measure ingredients, like me, so can't give a recipe. Somebody told me that the perfect ratio would be 1 cup of water, 1/2 cup of milk, 1 cup of flour, 2 eggs, + salt, sugar, backing powder.I never checked it myself, but the ratio seems to be reasonable. I would absolutely advice to refrigerate your batter overnight before use.
                                                                                                                                                                    When I was growing, my mom just kept a jar with a screwed-up lid with a liquid batter in a refrigerator most of the time, adding periodically an egg, water, enough flour to get the right consistency, salt and sugar, then shacked the jar and put it back . We used crepes mostly as wraps for savory things, like stirred-fried ground beef with garlic and onion, wrapped in, reheated in a butter till the crunchy crust develops, eaten with a sour-cream. We wrapped cold things in hot crepes too, like smoked or salted fish, deli meats, cheese. I am Russian.
                                                                                                                                                                    So, I learned how to make crepes early in life because it was a fast food of my youth.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                      My mom once told me: 1 cup of water, 1 cup of milk, 1.5 cup of flour, 1 egg and pinch of salt. It works on any type of the pan. Never fails. Crapes are easy to flip with no utensils. Are always soft and crispy. I tried many different recipes and nothing worked likes moms. All my talk about different pans and surfaces is to understand how they work and how to use them correctly. Crepes are always good, but i prefer de buyer pan. The biggest challenge for me is to make an french omelette like Jacques Pepin does. Just tried one on carbon steal pan and failed again. His technique is an art.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, the more milk and less eggs - the softer crepes. More eggs - more tear-proof when very thin. Grains without gluten need more eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                          So i tried again to make an omelet. This time I heat up the pan, saute some mushrooms with olive oil, the dropped some butter and the eggs mixture. As you can see on attached photos, the seasoning is already braking, and after the omelet attempt, it was mostly gone. That pan definitely does not like eggs, unless i am doing something wrong? Seems like i need, one more pan, just for omelets. Is there a green option?

                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                            Whatever pan you end up with as your omelette pan, I suggest you sauté the contents in a separate pan.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                              i usually do it separately. This was just an experiment. But even when I tried eggs alone, i still have difficulties and same results.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                It takes time to make a pan, which needs a seasoning to perform, to behave. It is just an opposite with non-stick ones, which are perfect right away, but that honeymoon doesn't last. Just cook meanwhile things that require an extra oil - it is healthier to make a food than to buy a food industry production. Everyone of my seasoned skillets gave me a hard time at the beginning. Polished aluminum was particularly horrible with food sticking to it, but cast iron was .shedding its seasoning, and meat searing for the roast dissolved seasoning which looked just fine, only pancakes and potato patties was a joy to make. .

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, but you have already used the pan for sauté previously. Whatever pan you use for eggs, get the seasoning (if necessary) developed and use it only for eggs, cooked in butter.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                    I use CI and bare aluminum for eggs, and not exclusively, may be the carbon still is more challenging?

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                      Galina,

                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't think carbon steel is at all challenging for eggs. I like it much better than cast iron. I save my cast iron for things that need to get crusty.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                        On a cast iron I make sunny-side-up eggs with a bacon, I cook bacon first, then add eggs,I like bacon on a CI more, it is on a crusty side. For omelets I use a bare aluminum - no crust, more gentle and even cooking, convenient slopping sides.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Before I abandoned non-stick pans, my main challenge was fish. Eggs not so much. It was the fish I was saving for the best less-used skillets. I remember how one time, when whole pan bottom was covered with firmly attached fish pieces, I just took it from the heat, closed lid, waited till the crust would be freed by steaming, turned it only then and continued on another side. Pure hell. I am sorry it took me so long to abandon the whole idea of searching for the perfect non-stick technology.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'd say the eggs are the challenge, not the pan. Once a steel pan is well-seasoned, it should work well enough for eggs cooked in butter. My feeling is just that once I have my egg pan working well, I don't want anything else messing it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you use butter in the pan when cooking an omelette, or do you expect the seasoning to be sufficiently nonstick?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                          I always put butter or other source of fat on my skillets (unless I cook bakon or meat with enough of fat in it), I think fat is healthy, tasty and essential for the taste development when cooking.
                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't flip my eggs, which could present an extra challenge for the people who do.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                            I fried eggs in bacon fat once, in my larger Carbone crepe pan, just to see what would happen, if I'd like the taste better, etc... It was a little temperamental, sticking a bit before eventually releasing.

                                                                                                                                                                                            One observation; the bacon fat was a noticeably thinner oil than butter. It was less viscous than an equal volume of canola oil, too. I've wondered if that had anything to do with the sticking that occurred.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                              It feels like bacon leaves some residue, probably, due to the sugar content (or whatever they put in a brine) , also, when a bacon hits pre-heated pan, lean meat parts (bacon is not 100% fat) slightly stick to a dry hot surface right away. I remove it with a salt scrabbling if necessary after cooking, usually it is not much. If for some reasons I want to be sure my bacon will not stick at all, I lightly brash my pan with a small amount of refined coconut oil (just my preferable cooking fat)before . May be I could just put bacon on a cold pan and wait until it gets ready to be flipped? I could try it next time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                I normally cook bacon in the microwave. But when I rendered a pound of bacon for the fat and bacon bits, I started with a cold pan. I used med-low heat and have to admit it was fine looking bacon before I took it past optimal eating doneness and into bits territory.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you, I will use cold pan next time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Microwave? That is is only for decoration!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Microwave is just a tool, and could be right for a particular job. We cook for fan, but it could be life interference. I also found pre-cooking food in a microwave could be useful, especially potatoes when it could be good to de-hydrate it a little bit. I mostly warm-up something there, which is really reasonable in a hot climate with other options being an electrical stove or an oven.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I personally don't like anything from the microwave. I prefer to heat up my food on the stove. For some reason the microwave heat does not work for me. I am forced to use it at work, and I hate the way food heats up when microwave is used.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes, some things are better on stove, like a buckwheat. I cook it as a rice, but prefer to eat it after it is heated on a skillet. But soups and things that contain water are fine. Microwaving dehydrates things, however In a Florida heat m/v is a big help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, using the m/w is a big help in our heat! We store bread in the fridge so it'll last longer than 3 days. The m/w is great for bringing it to room temp without drying out. I've lately begun using it to take the chill off things before they go into a frypan. Like my morning egg. 9 seconds on high, and it can go right into my DeBuyer pan, no worries. It's not enough to begin cooking it, just enough to make it not quite cold.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            It also enables me to get a quick start on things like baked potatoes, which I then finish in my Breville oven. It's great for quick hash browns, too. I'll partially bake a potato, then shred it. As soon as I bandage my burned fingers, it's good to go right into a frypan. No rinsing needed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've found that with a little imagination, there are many uses for a m/w.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Potatoes are great pre-cooked in a m/v. I especially find it useful when I make staffed (with ground beef, or sauteed onion and mushrooms,or sauteed green onion and chopped egg) potato patties out of Russets. I have to add an egg per one big potato, so I don't need an extra liquid which evaporates during 3 minutes on a high setting. Then I cook my patties on a cast iron skillet

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                              AMEN! 30+ days of the summer it is over 100 degrees here in the area of the San Joaquin Valley that I call home. For at least a month my kitchen moves outdoors - I bake on the grill and use the microwave and a steamer. Corn on the cob microwaved in the husk is - as Alton would say - good eats.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi, bwspot: "Microwave...only for decoration!!!!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                          And defenestration. The absolute best use, though, the nautical equivalent--you fill the MW with Le Creuset and toss overboard as a boat anchor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                                                                                                            <fill the MW with Le Creuset and toss overboard as a boat anchor.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, ok, but I don't think it'll work. You've left out the absolute, most crucial element of any boat anchor... the rope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, of *course* you need rope--unless you still have more LC to dispose of.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I like to think of all the fish who swim among the Cobalt and Flame, but dream of Aubergine (or insert your color du Jour).

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                                                                                                                                They can have mine. Well, to be fair, it's not an LC. It's a knock-off DO from Costco. But after using it, literally, 2 times, it's got a pinhole on the interior base. Plus, it burned my chili both times. And that hardly ever happens in my SS DO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                But I do like my LC ceramic stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                So I tried the blue steel de buyer pan i have for crepes and made omelets on it. The results are phenomenal compared to Vollrath Carbon Steel pan. The eggs cooked great, nothing sticks at all. Procedure was simple. Put little oil on pan and let it heat on medium for 2 min. Prepare 3 eggs mixture. Put spoon of butter on pan and wait until all liquid. Put eggs mixture and stir little with fork for 1 minute. Done.
                                                                                                                                                                                                As you can see in attached, both times I tried eggs cook great.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                              3. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                That's pretty good advice, GH. My small FB crepe pan has only been used for eggs, crepes and grilled cheese sandwiches, always with butter. The coating isn't very well developed, as you'd expect for a pan used with butter and mostly medium heat, but it's never stuck to anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been more adventurous with my Carbone crepe pan, and have had to add a bit of seasoning from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                            So I have been cooking with my new pans for some time. It seems like carbon steel is just not a pan for any food that contains flour or eggs, it just does not work. But it is perfect for searing meat, Stainless steel works nicely for almost everything, but i prefer carbon steel for searing, For eggs debuyer blue crepe pan works the best. So i definitely need one more pan for omelets, Crepe pan works great but it is too shallow. Attached is the fried Gnocchi and what it did to carbon steel pan. On the side note, why eggs or flour dishes react with carbon steel pan so badly?

                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                              The short answer is that your seasoning layer was too thick and was unstable. Your food basically torn the seasoning off (based on the 2nd photo)

                                                                                                                                                                                              Carbon steel can work, but it does take a bit of a learning curve to build a nice stable seasoning layer.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                hmm, the de buyer blue pan just works without any seasoning. All i did is prepare it with potato peel. Maybe i screw the carbon pan with the seasoning. How carbon steel pan differs from blue steel?

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                  <the de buyer blue pan just works without any seasoning.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have the deBuyer ForceBlue pan. Basically (in the simplest sense), the ForceBlue pan has been seasoned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  All of these DeBuyer pans are really the same. CarbonePlus, ForceBlue, Mineral, MineralB. In the case for the ForceBlue, the surface has undergone chemical passivation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Assuming the second photo is what your pan looks like right now, I suggest you to start over (say using self cleaning oven or stovetop to burn off the seasoning). Start over, and only do 1-2 layers of seasoning, and keep it thin. The most common mistake people make is to try to build too thick of a seasoning layer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                    So I had 2 left over egg whites in my fridge. Grabbed the carbon steel pan. (3rd photo from above post) Put on high heat, dropped around 1 table spoon or little less butter, then dropped 2 egg whites i stirred together, and let the eggs cook. Eggs were sliding on the carbon pen like the ice hockey puck. It was not like that with the yolk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, seems like it is hard to get the seasoning properly stick to the pan for some time. Mine seasoning is almost gone and I start to believe that the whole idea about seasoning with flax seed oil is a BS. Even if the seasoning is perfect,it disappears slowly and we actually eat the pieces that created the seasoning. How healthy is that? Attached mine pans after seasoning is almost gone. Funny part is that even with that broken seasoning i can easily cook omelets or fry eggs with no sticking issues. So i wonder, should i try to season the pan again with the flax seed oil?

                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I gave up on flaxseed recently. I use lard instead. Oh, and I never use metal utensils in my CS skillets, the seasoning scratches off too easily for that. I only use wood/plastic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                      <How healthy is that?>

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Actually is not that bad, I used to think it is disgusting, but it isn't really that bad. Fully seasoned surface is just mostly carbon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      <Even if the seasoning is perfect,it disappears slowly>

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It shouldn't be like this. Hmm... Try this next time. I know. I know. We are telling you to try a lot of things. Next time, after you seasoned your pan, try to use wooden or plastic utensils for a week before using metal utensils. It is possible that the metal utensils are just too rough for the new seasoning and scrapping the seasoning off -- faster than the building process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      <Funny part is that even with that broken seasoning i can easily cook omelets or fry eggs with no sticking issues. So i wonder, should i try to season the pan again with the flax seed oil?>

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Really? Does the foods taste metallic to you? If not, then you actually have a very thin layer of seasoning. You just don't see it. A real bare carbon steel pan will impart metal taste to your food, and will readily rust. You should see it turns red/brown with an hour after cleaning. If not, then it is not truly bare. It just looks bare.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Don't forget that, on the surface, your crepe pan and frypan are identical. The material is the same, it's just that the Mineral pan is thicker. What works in one should work in the other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The only time you'll need to treat them differently is over high heat. The thinner FB pan might warp. But you'd still be able to use it on a gas hob.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just picked up a couple of CS pans (Minerals), and gnocchi was one of my first dishes (I uploaded a pic on another thread)... worked out fine. Eggs have been great too, but if you use the pan to saute things like mushrooms and onions you need to watch the surface, as I find you can easily burn a thin layer of organic matter to the surface which will make other stuff stick. As a surface, stainless is about the worst thing going for sticking... why it's great for deglazing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: AaronE

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I must agree that stainless steel is bad in regards to sticking. Recently i tried to fry ROSTI on in and it was sticking although i put enough oil to cover the surface and pan was hot enough. Rosti was made of shredded potatoes mixed with sauteed leeks and Gruyere cheese. I though that hot temperature and enough oil will help the food release itselft and not stick. I had to use spatula and put it under the Rosti to release it from the pan. I must be doing something wrong. There has to be a way to deal with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Stainless still is less sticky when it is really well scrabbled with some abrasive things or remedies between cooking, and cold oil is applied on a hot but not too hot skillet (like 350F) right before you add a food on your skillet. I guess using pre-baked potatoes, not raw ones would cause less sticking. Shredded raw potatoes are very sticky.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Agree. I nuke potatoes until they're half-cooked, then shred, bag and freeze them. As long as I let them defrost (hello, microwave) and don't fry them up cold, they release beautifully, with a golden crust.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            bwspot - Is it possible you tried to lift them too soon? Most food will release easily once it's got a nice crust.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hard to say. I wait 3-4 min and check if the food releases. If not wait another 1-2 min and then i start helping it to release. I will experiment one more time today with same ROSTI,

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just want to add, polished stainless-still is not totally sticky, unlike brushed s/still. I even made cripes on my 8" SS pan with an unusually thick and heavy copper bottom before I got my cast iron - the heat distribution on that pan is absolutely perfect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mom only made crepes for one meal, and that was for our favorite "watermelon and pancakes". The crepes were sprinkled with table sugar, rolled and eaten warm. Served with chilled melon on the side. It was our favorite super-hot weather dinner, the one she'd make when the hot, dry Santa Ana winds rolled in, driving the temperature above 100º. Not much nutrition for a meal, but it was oh-so-good and a summer budget-stretcher, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oddly, the rest of the time, "pancakes" were just pancakes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sorry, I placed my reply in a wrong place.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                          I stressed about seasoning my CI skillet at first, then just gave up. Now it sits permanently on my stove and is often used several times a day. Water rarely touches this pan. I figure heat will kill any pathogens, so I shake/wipe out any remnants when I'm done, and back in the stove it goes. I can scrape at it with metal utensils and I never see a scratch.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: AaronE

                                                                                                                                                                                            Me 2. I have been using my new pans for a month and time is probably the best seasoning tool. No matter how good the initial seasoning is eggs will kill it very quickly. At least this is my experience on vollrath carbon steel pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                              Exactly the opposite of Teflon styled nonstick, which gets worse with age. One of the things to keep in mind with respect to CS and CI and eggs is the specific heat capacity and mass means the pans hold a ton of energy. This means a CI/CS pan at medium heat will cook eggs way faster than another pan at medium heat when the eggs first hit it. That said, my CS wok doesn't stick at all when scrambling eggs (with a little oil)... woks are a lot thinner though, so not holding energy like thick pans, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: AaronE

                                                                                                                                                                                                You are right. Woks are usually made thin -- for a very different purpose. Quick response to heat and easy for maneuver -- easy to toss food in a 16" wok with one hand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wok I use the most is a 2-handled 18.5" and it's pretty heavy... more wok staying still and me tossing stuff around. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: AaronE

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I love my Force Blue crepe pan for eggs. At 2mm, it seems to hit just the perfect balance between response and heat retention. I heat it on 5/10, then turn it down to 3/10 to cook my egg.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  It heats pretty quickly, with the entire process, from turning heat on to plating my egg, about 7 minutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                      There's no such thing as perfect when it comes to carbon steel seasoning. It's very organic, and wants a life of it's own.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Make it (and you) happy. Cook something! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                        Made a stake and omelet on the carbon steal pan. Not that sticky. Its more lack of experience with how to use them. What i noticed is that the pan gets hot very quick and i need to learn how to use the heat property. Definitely not the same as nonstick.
                                                                                                                                                                                        On think i wonder how to clean it. Just hot water and little soap? The pan looks already like it was used for some time.

                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                          You don't need to use soap or detergent, just scrub it with a stiff nylon brush and hot water, then wipe it dry with a cloth or paper towel. De Buyer recommend oiling a bit it after use as well, which I've started to do as mine develops annoying little rust spots (though the oiling doesn't seem to help much).

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                            So the way it looks on the photos is normal?

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                              Sirrith,

                                                                                                                                                                                              <mine develops annoying little rust spots (though the oiling doesn't seem to help much).>

                                                                                                                                                                                              After almost a year, I've yet to get any rust on mine, and I live in humid Tampa. I suspect your pan isn't really dry when you oil it, or when you put it away.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I always finish my pans off by putting them on a warm burner before it goes back in the cupboard. Half the time, they don't get wet at all, I just wipe them down, as when I cook eggs, fry potatoes or grill a sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh its dry, I always wipe them down and put on the burner for a couple of minutes. Its just that Hong Kong (where I am) is so humid. All my cast iron pans went through this, they all got small "drops" of rust, then after a while it stopped happening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've also seen suggestions to put them in paper bags. I don't use my cast iron as often as my carbon steel, so I lay a paper towel between my 10" comal and my 12" skillet. So far, so good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tampa isn't as humid as Hong Kong. It's comparable much of the year, but in summer yours is about 10% higher, which is a lot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just hang mine on the wall, that way if anything happens (e.g. rust), I can see it straight away and deal with it. Plus I find it looks nice to have a wall with a bunch of cast iron and carbon steel pans on it :) I've found that the rust spots don't happen anymore after a certain amount of time, probably after a nice layer of seasoning has developed to protect the metal, which just means I have to use my large DB force blue more often, though oddly enough my small DB la lyonnaise which is the same age and which I use only for eggs has not rusted at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                                      While I don't envy your rust spots, I do have serious wall envy. My kitchen is quite open, with literally zero wall space for hanging pans. I've thought of a rack over my island, but I place a higher priority on a ceiling fan. It's a lifesaver in the summer, and not unwelcome in the winter, either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I suppose I could hang them individually on chains from the ceiling, in various places around the room, but that would remind me too much of the killer barn in Twister.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have to use the walls, my kitchen is only 6 sq meters!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                                          That is small, but I'm sure your wall of pans is a terrific look. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rust is not the end of the world. I don't remember HK being that humid. That being said, Georgia (USA) can be very humid. I would mop the kitchen floor, and it would stay wet until I manually dry it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                      We get almost 90% average RH pretty much all summer and in winter the average is around 70% :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And no, its not the end of the world, I agree. But I don't like it, and it leaves unsightly spots on my cookware which I also don't like (no, it doesn't affect performance, but I do like to keep it looking nice).

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hmm... I just don't remember it being that humid. Oh well, I guess you just have to turn on your dehumidifer.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                            In my experience, "perfect" only comes from cooking and looks ugly as hell! In a pinch, brown butter in the pan (don't burn it), then toss the butter and wipe (or don't!) very lightly with a paper towel.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                          I assume after some time stains will develop on the outside. Is it possible to clean it later or they will stay there forever?

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                            <I assume after some time stains will develop on the outside. Is it possible to clean it later or they will stay there forever?>

                                                                                                                                                                            We are talking about your stainless steel cookware, right? I am starting to have problems to keep track since so many cookware have been mentioned. :)

                                                                                                                                                                            For stainless steel cookware, you can almost always remove the stains. Depending on the type of stains, you will use different mentions to remove them. Usually, Bar Keepers Friend is a good safe choice. There are the regular Bar Keepers Friend, and the Cookware version, and the Soft version.

                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.amazon.com/Servaas-Bar-Kee...

                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.amazon.com/Keepers-Cleanse...

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                              And if BKF doesn't work, well, that's why we have oven cleaner.

                                                                                                                                                                              Seriously, it's my cleaner of choice for the exterior of my SS pans. When the bottom especially gets ugly, I spray oven cleaner, let the pan sit on the counter for about 4-6 hours, then quite literally wipe it off with a damp sponge. Squeaky clean and shiny!

                                                                                                                                                                              I do this about 2 times a year, using BKF in between to keep the outside walls clean. But the bottom, yeah, it gets ugly.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                Oven cleaners are the opposite of BKF. BKF is mildly acidic, while oven cleaners are basic. Oven cleaners are much better at removing burned on materials like those black burned on stain.

                                                                                                                                                                                I usually use ammonia solution -- similar idea -- using a basic solution.

                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-64-oz-...

                                                                                                                                                                                These are for serious stain removal -- like you said.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                  Hey, Chem? It occurs to me that in all our discussions of saucepans, I've never asked a pretty basic question.

                                                                                                                                                                                  May I ask you whose handles you find most comfortable? Also, which tend to twist in your hand when pouring out liquids, especially on larger pans?

                                                                                                                                                                                  Generally, I don't mind the CTP, but on my largest, 4.5 quart, it's a chore to pour our the contents. As you know, those handles aren't the widest and it always twists when I'm pouring out pasta or potato water, since I can't strain with the lid and use the helper handle to steady it at the same time.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                    What is CTP? Is that Cuisinart Multiclad Pro? Yes, I have noticed the handle on Cuisinart pots tend to be very thin.

                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.tammysrecipes.com/files/pa...

                                                                                                                                                                                    <May I ask you whose handles you find most comfortable? Also, which tend to twist in your hand when pouring out liquids>

                                                                                                                                                                                    I found those questions yield different answers. My most comfortable handle is from my carbon steel wok, which is perfectly cylindrical, but, as you can imagine, most prone to rotation:

                                                                                                                                                                                    http://e-woks.com/images/pow.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                                    I love my DeBuyer steel pan, but its handle is probably on the less comfortable one. Yet, it is least likely to rotate:

                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.kitchen-universe.com/de-Bu...

                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                            So today was my second experience with cooking on stainless steal. I am definitely complete rookie here. I cooked chicken that I marinated in mixture of corn starch, sesame oil and sherry wine. Turn the heat on medium, waited 1 min, added olive oil, waited another minute or two and added the chicken. 1 minute later all is sticky and looks bad. I continued cooking like that as i wanted to finish my chicken. Later i filled the pan with water and brought to boil to clean it. I see strange 'white cloudy mess" on the pan after cleaning it. Did i do it wrong?
                                                                                                                                                                            See attached. (photos show inside of the pan)

                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                              < I cooked chicken that I marinated in mixture of corn starch, sesame oil and sherry wine.>

                                                                                                                                                                              :) Are stir frying? This is Chinese stir fry food prep, specifically South Chinese food prep. Food readily stick to stainless steel cookware which is its challenge, and adding corn starch only makes it more difficult. If you are going to stir fry, then I think it is much better to use a carbon steel or cast iron, but I would also use high heat.

                                                                                                                                                                              <Later i filled the pan with water and brought to boil to clean it. >

                                                                                                                                                                              That sounds fine to me

                                                                                                                                                                              < I see strange 'white cloudy mess" on the pan after cleaning it. Did i do it wrong?>

                                                                                                                                                                              Nothing wrong. There are may kind of stains. If you ever see the rainbow bluish stains, which you will sooner or later, this type of stain is due to overheating and oxidization.

                                                                                                                                                                              http://cathyherard.com/wp-content/upl...

                                                                                                                                                                              You can remove them using Bar Keeper Friend or other acidic solution.

                                                                                                                                                                              As for you current white stains, that is usually due to the mineral in water.

                                                                                                                                                                              Mineral attaches to pot. It is not a damage, you can continue to cook like that if you like. Again, Bar Keepers Friend or white distilled vinegar will work. For the distilled vinegar, just put enough to cover the bottom of the bottom, bring it to a gentle boil, turn off and cool down, this should relief the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                <:) Are stir frying? This is Chinese stir fry food prep, specifically South Chinese food prep. Food readily stick to stainless steel cookware which is its challenge, and adding corn starch only makes it more difficult. If you are going to stir fry, then I think it is much better to use a carbon steel or cast iron, but I would also use high heat.>
                                                                                                                                                                                If I cook chicken i usually prepare it on separate pan as I don't want to mess up the Wok. In the past i would use nonstick pan and fry the chicken for about 10-12 min. Then on the Wok i would bring the oil to smoke point and start with veggies and when done i add chicken, stir fry for 30sec, add my sauce, stir fry for 1min and done. It is just my way of doing it as I never was able to make good chicken fast on the Wok. Yes, if I stir beef, it is always on Wok and takes about 2 min.

                                                                                                                                                                                I need to master how to use the stainless steal. My second use of my new pan today was to sear the meat (pork lion) on the pan. I noticed that surface started to get sticky again, but this time when i turned the pork i pressed it to the pan where the sticky surface developed and moved around it. It actually nicely cleaned the surface and all was good since then, and i was able to sear more pieces much easier.
                                                                                                                                                                                Later i clean with hot water.

                                                                                                                                                                                Description of pan is:
                                                                                                                                                                                "
                                                                                                                                                                                A spacious interior with rounded sides traps in heat and keeps splatters and spills to a minimum, making this fry pan ideal for browning, searing and frying.
                                                                                                                                                                                "

                                                                                                                                                                                so it must be me lacking the techniques and skills how to use the stainless steel.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                  < It is just my way of doing it as I never was able to make good chicken fast on the Wok.>

                                                                                                                                                                                  Interesting. It can be done though. What type of wok do you have? A carbon steel wok? Anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                  <I need to master how to use the stainless steal>

                                                                                                                                                                                  Meats readily stick to stainless steel. It requires a different set of skill to use it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Two very important techniques in usually stainless steel cookware are that (1) you cannot "hurry" and turn the food. If the food stick, then wait for a bit, and push and tug a bit, but try not to force-move the meat, or you will tear/rib it. As the meat get cooked, it will slowly release itself from the stainless steel surface.

                                                                                                                                                                                  (2) Also make sure your stainless steel pan is hot, then add oil, and then meat. Avoid adding meat to the pan until the pan is hot already.

                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB-SCA...

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                    As simple as it looks, but no way i can get the ball rolling on the pan. Some say just put it on medium heat, heat for 2 min add oil or butter and you set.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                      <As simple as it looks, but no way i can get the ball rolling on the pan. Some say just put it on medium heat, heat for 2 min add oil or butter and you set.>

                                                                                                                                                                                      You may have trouble to get the water mercury ball effect if you are using a medium heat setting. Of course, every stove is different. Your neighbor stove at medium may be hotter than your stove at medium. Nonetheless, the stainless steel pan has to be plenty hot to create the so called mercury ball. What it is, is that the pan is hot enough to vaporize the water on the touch. As such, the water droplet is never able to directly touch the pan, so it dances on top of the pan. You actually want that during the cooking too. Basically, water vapor from the meat will push the meat above itself slightly above the pan, thus minimize the sticking. This is also why cold meat especially does not do well on stainless steel cookware.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, butter (as opposite to regular vegetable oil) definitely help to create a more nonstick surface as well. Just play around.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Every cookware material is a bit different and requires a bit practice to get used to. Whatever works for you is fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes it is different, but i am slowly getting used to it. Today I made french toasts and with butter it works great. I like the fact that i can see everything in the pan compared to old nonstick pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                          French toast isn't the easiest thing to cook on stainless steel. So pat yourself on the back for that one. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                          The white residue from last night's chicken looks like it might be protein instead of salt. On my pans, salt is pure white, protein is off-white and cloudy, like your pictures.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Protein needs a light scrubbing to remove well, as you found. For salt, which is always present after boiling pasta, potatoes or rice, a simple rinse with white vinegar removes it. Pour or wipe a little bit of vinegar in the pan and rinse it. Salt dissolves instantly.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                            thx. Seems like it is protein. I usually use:
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://cwisupply.com/images/UNS03006_...
                                                                                                                                                                                            for scrubing
                                                                                                                                                                                            not sure if this one:
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.boxpartners.com/Images/Pro...
                                                                                                                                                                                            is safe to use with stainless steal.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                              <not sure if this one:
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.boxpartners.com/Images/Pro...
                                                                                                                                                                                              is safe to use with stainless steal.>

                                                                                                                                                                                              Safe is not exactly the right word. Will it scratch your pan? Possibly. Will the scratches harm your pan? Not at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you care is the more important question. I don't like scratches in new cookware, and I'm fanatical, completely over the top (water spots make me crazy), about keeping stainless steel shiny. That doesn't stop me from cleaning it with SOS pads from time to time, if the situation warrants.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My metal utensils leave deeper scratches than any scouring item I've ever used. After a while the scratches just sort of all run together and aren't at all visible unless you look very closely. I've chosen to call it a "patina". :)

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                        I still like to use the mercury ball test on new pans, or on someone else's cooktop, so I'll know when the pan is hot enough for oil or to sear meat. It's a useful thing to learn and I suggest you keep at it until you see your pan do it at east once. Then you'll know exactly what is supposed to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't worry about the timing, because every pan and range are different. Just learn your pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                          yep, definitely it is a challenge i want to see that little ball dancing on my new pan. At some point i feel like the pan is already too hot for it too happen. On medium heat, gas oven, i get to point when i can smell the pan from being hot but no ball is formed. I feel like i am over heating my pan so I stop.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                            So while I was writing this post i left my pen on medium heat (3.5) by mistake after cleaning it. I immediately turned the heat off and tried the ball test. Wow, the ball showed up. So here is the question regarding heating up the pan. It seems like the proper technique would be heat the pan on low for 10min and the it would be ready to use? What do you think? Attached is the first ball.

                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                              It is all about temperature, less about heat setting. Once the heat is hot enough, then the water droplet will dance/float onto of it. You can use low setting for 10 min or high setting for 2 min. It does not matter. The water is just a visual test for the temperature of the pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                              <At some point i feel like the pan is already too hot for it too happen>

                                                                                                                                                                                              Then, it wasn't hot enough. You can put your pan on high heat. Put water droplet on the pan every 20-30 second, and you should see the droplets start to dance at some point.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                So, the stainless pan should only be used when droplets dance or for applications when less heat is required pan can be used before droplets are formed? If droplets are dancing the pan is pretty hot. Dropping butter at that point will melt it super quick and probably burn it afterwards.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                                  <So, the stainless pan should only be used when droplets dance or for applications when less heat is required pan can be used before droplets are formed? >

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Let me put it this way. The test is most useful as a guide to pan fry meats to prevent meat sticking to the pan, like chicken and beef and pork. I certainly do not use it to fry an egg, and I don't use it to make a stew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  <If droplets are dancing the pan is pretty hot.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                  That is the idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  <Dropping butter at that point will melt it super quick and probably burn it afterwards.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are techniques around that as well. You can do it very quickly, or a lot of people mix butter with oil. There are just a lot of knowledge, and it is not simple to mention all of them here.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                    Or just cook something acidic in it next time you used it (e.g., tomato sauce) -- should get off all the cloudy residue.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                I agree with everything Chem wrote, and will add that I often add water while the heat is still on. As you've noticed, food comes up very easily with a wooden spoon at this point. When added over heat, the water boils, then I turn off the heat and go eat dinner. When dinner is over, I normally only need to give the pan an easy wipe with a soapy sponge or cloth to get it completely clean.

                                                                                                                                                                                Sounds like you're doing it exactly right. :)

                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                              When I started to get serious about cooking at home I chose to not use Teflon or other non-stick style pans. And I got pretty darned good at eggs in cast iron... It can be done!

                                                                                                                                                                              These are my two dedicated "Eggs & Butter ONLY" pans (with silicone grips added).

                                                                                                                                                                              They are Commercial Aluminum (Calphalon) uncoated hard anodized 7 inch pans (1307) - no longer made but often found on eBay (where I got mine pre-owned but looking unused). I only rinse with hot water then wipe them with a paper towel. I only use silicone spatula. They don't need to be so babied - I just chose to do so because they have become so amazingly non-stick.

                                                                                                                                                                              They are a joy to use and make me smile every time I slide the perfectly cooked eggs onto the plates simply by tipping the pans.

                                                                                                                                                                              I am sure the 8" pans would work just as well.

                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                          3. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                            That's the Force Blue pan that some of us have, and it is excellent for pancakes, crepes and eggs. It's my preferred pan for grilled cheese sandwiches, too. Get a big one, and you can reheat pizza and more.

                                                                                                                                                                            I've used mine to pan-fry fish, too. Because it's not as heavy as the Carbone or Mineral lines, it can warp at high heat. But for anything needing only medium to med-high heat (and no side walls), it's terrific.

                                                                                                                                                                            I'd like to score a couple of frypans in that line, because I cook so many things on med to med-high and I much prefer the lighter weight.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                              Cast iron and carbon still are definitely superior for cooking very thin crepes .

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                                                                                Just made few today on the new blue steal Debuyer. Initially little sticky but after 1 crepe i figured out how to flip the crepes without any tools. Pan already looks scratched and full of stains. I guess that's the nature of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, you were referring to stainless! In that case I agree completely that Teflon is better.

                                                                                                                                                                          I thought you were saying Teflon was the best for eggs and pancakes, period. Because I've found that for me, personally anyway, carbon steel works best for sunny side up eggs (haven't tried omelette yet as I'm not a fan, but just normal fried eggs never stick in carbon steel), and cast iron is ideal for pancakes (again, they never stick in cast iron, even without any oil or butter in the pan). Scrambled eggs, yes, Teflon.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                            <I thought you were saying Teflon was the best for eggs and pancakes, period. Because I've found that for me, personally anyway, carbon steel works best for sunny side up eggs>

                                                                                                                                                                            I do like to make eggs on my carbon steel pans. I still find that I need some oil on a carbon steel pan for eggs, whereas I can really not add a single drop of oil on a Teflon pan. Anyway, I think we pretty much agree on most of the major points.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                              And let us not forget taste!

                                                                                                                                                                              I fired an egg last week in one of my nonstick pans, with some butter, just because it's been 10 months since I've done so. I wanted to remember how well it cooked eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                              Although the egg slid right around in the pan, even more than in my CS pans , I'll never do it again. It lacked flavor and wasn't nearly as good as my eggs fried in carbon steel.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                <It lacked flavor and wasn't nearly as good as my eggs fried in carbon steel.>

                                                                                                                                                                                Yeah, that is because Teflon is too nonstick. It is nice for the pan to form bits/browning on the foods -- for that, a little sticking is necessary.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                  I think that's correct, Chem. What's more fascinating to me is that so much flavor can be developed with really minimal sticking. My eggs usually slide around easily, yet still taste amazing. Perhaps it's the seasoning that's imparting some flavor?

                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                When i started using the non-stick pan i would do it with limited oil. Later I started to use virgin oil, and finally i discovered that butter was the key to great scrambled eggs. Also, scrambled eggs require 6-10 min of cooking to taste great. If you cook them in less time they luck taste in my opinion. Today, I got my carbon steal pan, so time to season and test it out. I will try both omelets and scrambled eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                                                                                  I tried scrambled eggs in my de Buyer, I would advise against it, especially if your pan is new. They formed a very stubborn film on the bottom of the pan that required much scrubbing to remove, and ended up removing what little seasoning I had on the pan as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                    Were your eggs cold?

                                                                                                                                                                                    I've been reminded again and again to make sure food is room temp, or at least not chilled. If you scramble with milk, you could warm the milk a bit before mixing it with the eggs to help warm them a bit.

                                                                                                                                                                                    A lovely thing about carbon steel is how easy it is to re- season. I've stripped the seasoning on mine, too, with cold eggs. What a mess! I did a quick and dirty process to restore it. Heated the pan, swirled some oil, brought it to just smoking, and wiped it out. Put the pan away and fried my eggs the next morning. Easy peasy.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                      They were the same temperature I have them at when I fry them, slightly colder than room temp. Yes, its very easy to re-season, but I'd rather not have to scrub at the pan for 10 minutes (slight exaggeration) after each time I make scrambled eggs! So in the future I will just use stainless or Teflon for scrambled (stainless because I can just let it soak with detergent).

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                        I absolutely understand. I hate scrubbing pans, believing that's why oven cleaner was invented. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                        It was likely just the new (and temperamental) seasoning that caused your scramble to stick. The first couple of eggs I fried in mine were great, then the third time, it stuck quite a bit. It was salvageable, and I didn't need to scrub the pan too much, but I did take the time to add another seasoning layer after that egg. If that egg had been scrambled, well, it would have been an unholy disaster!

                                                                                                                                                                                        The pan has been behaving well ever since, getting better by the week. It's nowhere near black, but it's never used on high heat or for searing, so it's not going to look like a pan that sears steaks routinely.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Anyway, take heart, use your pan, develop the seasoning a bit more, and try again. With lots of butter :)

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                                                                          Maybe if I'm ever brave enough :P

                                                                                                                                                                                          My pan is still blue! I don't make many eggs, and I only use that particular pan for eggs, so it will likely be a while before its ready.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Sirrith

                                                                                                                                                                                            You can help it along with grilled sandwiches and such. I cook those frequently in mine.

                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                              Ya, and the pan gets slowly worse and wose

                                                                                                                                          2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                            <I think Tramontina quality is close to Cuisinart MultiClad and Calphalon Triply, but cheaper and much cheaper than All Clad.>

                                                                                                                                            I would say that's likely true, but I've noticed one characteristic in my 4-qt. Tramontina pan that I've not seen in my Calphalon clad. Every time I use it, it gets a lovely bright blue rainbow in the base. Literally, every time. To be fair, I've not done any low-heat cooking in it, but even boiling a pot of water for pasta leaves it with a dark amber/blue "stain". This only happens to my Calphalon pans under high heat, when they're heated empty. Even then it's very rare.

                                                                                                                                            I'm not sure what, if anything, it signifies, but I have to say I don't like it. It means an extra scrub with BKF to restore the finish. Cosmetic, to be sure, and it's a pet peeve of mine, but there it is.

                                                                                                                                            I've been told it's just an aspect of stainless, and certainly all my clad pans have shown blue or amber "staining" at one time or other, but the Tramontina is taking it to a whole new level.

                                                                                                                                            I can't help but think it signifies inferior steel.

                                                                                                                      2. re: bwspot

                                                                                                                        I mostly hear GREAT things about Tramontina - I only own one Tramontina pan and it is a lightweight cast iron skillet with a red enamel exterior that I bought because (1) it was gorgeous, (2) it was on ridiculous clearance (3) it was red - my enamelware color of choice!

                                                                                                                        If I can offer a suggestion - go to eBay and to flea markets and thrift stores and factory second stores (TJ Max, Marshall's, etc) and pick up some different pieces. It is a great way to get a feel for different cookware types without breaking the bank. It can also lead to some very happy surprises! When I first wanted to experiment with cooking on stainless steel I bought some second hand Revere Ware and Farberware pots and pans. Turns out, I REALLY love cooking with those.

                                                                                                                        I have a couple of vintage hard anodized "Commercial Aluminum" pans that I bought from estate liquidators that were (from what I can tell) never used. I LOVE them! Don't be afraid to go with hard anodized pans that are NOT nonstick coated - you can get the swing of cooking with them... some of the old ones I have are amazing for even heating.

                                                                                                                        1. re: CaliforniaJoseph

                                                                                                                          Commercial Aluminum hard anodized (Calphalon's professional cookware) is my favorite. I love how easy it is to clean but has a slight stick to give food a good crust. I still have some never used pieces that I can't wait to try!

                                                                                                              2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                I think that cast aluminum pans from a restaurant supply store like Adcraft http://www.amazon.com/Adcraft-H3-14FP... are worth consideration as well. They get non-stick with use and more forgiving than cast iron.
                                                                                                                Also, all clad doesn't perform better for most kitchen tasks then stainless-still with copper bottom, but the difference in price could be significant.
                                                                                                                I have several Grishwolds from eBay, one Adcraft , some stainless still with copper bottoms. I am done with non-stick skillets - any such coating just doesn't last.

                                                                                                                1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                  Folks will KNOW you mean business when you pull out that 14" behemoth! Old Club Aluminum pots and pans are pretty easy to come by in thrift stores, flea markets, garage sales etc. Great stuff in some groovy colors!

                                                                                                                  1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                    Sam's Club "Bakers & Chefs" non stick have been the best bang for the buck for us at about $20.00. They are commercial weight, heavy duty riveted handles w/removable rubber grips, stamped NSF & made in the USA by one of the big commercial cookware co's.

                                                                                                                    Keeping the heat down, keeping metal & abrasive pads out & never using cooking sprays like Pam is the key. We have gotten a good 5 years or more out of them and they are still in great shape.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                      If you have to keep heat down and be careful not to scratch your pan, in a while some small accidents will add-up (may be only for the people like me who are not always meticulous), and all that heavy duty body will outlive more gentle non-stick surface, which, probably, not a tragedy if pan didn't cost a fortune from the beginning.
                                                                                                                      I started to see more and more really thick "professional grade" aluminum skillets in discount stores, but with Teflon-looking inner layer. I guess, what would happened if after an unavoidable deterioration of that layer, that pan receives a sand-blasting treatment? Will it give the pan a new long life? If I had an extremely sturdy and well maid thick aluminum skillet which only defect was the worn-out inner layer, I would try that.

                                                                                                                      1. re: GalinaL

                                                                                                                        We only use the Sam's Club non stick pans for low heat light cooking like eggs and such.

                                                                                                                        For heavy hot cooking and searing we use the old cast or the DeBuyers carbon and sometimes the clad alum/stainless.

                                                                                                                        I don't know about whats under the coating. it may be smooth Alum or it may be a roughed up Alum to help the coating stick. Never took one down to the metal to see.

                                                                                                                      2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                        Tom, I think you've hit it right. My current set of Tramontina heavy aluminum nonstick frypans are 3 years old and still look almost new, with only minor scratching.

                                                                                                                        I think the two biggest things are starting with a heavy pan and using moderate heat. I've long used metal tongs and a metal spatula in my non sticks, and the finish is far from ruined. I never use spray oil and never heat them empty.

                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                          I ruined decent quality non stick pans playing catch up with high heat and home fries & one with a Pam type spray. I then read the fine print so to speak and the manufactures warn against high heat & sprays. Since then no issues with the Sam's Club Pans with light cooking.

                                                                                                                2. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                  Minor point, the non-stick coating used by Calphalon is NOT Teflon, but I am otherwise ignorant as to how it is different. Perhaps it is just a rose by another name...

                                                                                                                  1. re: CaliforniaJoseph

                                                                                                                    It may not be called Teflon but it is very close to Teflon. Teflon is a trademark product from DuPont of the chemical: PTFE. Therefore, PTFE made by another companies cannot be legally called as Teflon.

                                                                                                                    "The best known brand name of PTFE is Teflon by DuPont Co."

                                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetr...

                                                                                                                    Unless we are talking about those ceramic pans -- those are really have nothing to do with Teflon.

                                                                                                                    For example, Frisbee is a trademark product made by Wham-O, so any other companies can only make flying disc, and cannot be called Frisbee. Still, average people call them the same.

                                                                                                                    " The term Frisbee, often used capitalized, to generically describe all flying discs, is a registered trademark of the Wham-O toy company."

                                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisbee

                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                      Just went to Calphalon website. Quote:

                                                                                                                      "Does your cookware contain Teflon®?

                                                                                                                      Teflon® is a registered trademark of DuPont and a brand name for polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) a nonstick finish. While Calphalon cookware features polytetrafluoroethylene-based nonstick finishes, we are not associated with, nor do we use, Teflon® branded products."

                                                                                                                      http://calphalon.custhelp.com/app/ans...

                                                                                                                      Therefore, it is not Telfon because it is a trademark issue, but it is made from the same chemical.

                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                        Great information! I was not sure the difference and readily admit I am easily ovrewhelmed with marketing ploys. I was only aware of (1) that whatever they use wasn't "Teflon®" and (2) I don't buy or own anything non-stick. (I'm no fanatic, I just get along well enough without and I am proud to have a cookware collection my future grandchildren will - I hope - fight over!)

                                                                                                                        1. re: CaliforniaJoseph

                                                                                                                          :) No problem. It can be confusing. For average people like you and me, we can call any facial tissue as Kleenex, but a company cannot do that because it will get in legal troubles. Kleenex is a registered trademark of Kimberly-Clark Worldwide.

                                                                                                                          Same here. If Calphalon actually says that its pans have a Teflon coating, then DuPont can come after Calphalon.

                                                                                                                          There were a few posts years ago where the posters asked for non-Teflon pans. A few responders suggested other PTFE pans (chemically same as Teflon). As you can imagine, those were not helpful. The posters really was trying to ask for non-PTFE, not "non-Dupont version of PTFE" pans"

                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                            I was aware of these distinction you bring up - that Teflon was a commercial name, and I did understand the OP's question.

                                                                                                                            I wasn't clear what sort of coating was on Calphalon non-stick pans - I've only ever been interested in their hard anodized uncoated pans, so I never researched what the coating on the NS pans were. I do know that new PFOA and PTFE coatings are becoming available, wasn't certain if they used some new non-PTFE or not.

                                                                                                                            As it turns out they in fact DO now have ceramic coated non-stick at Bed, Bath and Beyond which is found here: http://www.calphalon.com/Pages/Simply...

                                                                                                                            (OK, I picked up a 12" SS factory second fry pan for a song because it had a small scratch on the bottom - big deal, I don't mind that they scratched it once before I did!)

                                                                                                                            1. re: CaliforniaJoseph

                                                                                                                              I see. Yes, they also have the ceramic coated nonstick as well. I don't suspect that they will last any longer than other ceramic coated pans.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                I'm in agreement with you on your suspicion - my whole reason for avoiding non-stick-em pans (as the venerable Julia Child called them) is simple enough - they do not last! I expect all of my cookware to outlast me.

                                                                                                            2. +1 on carbon steel and cast iron in that order. A little more care investment upfront, but they are handed down for generations unlike any other types of cookware. Also never really worry about stains as long as they're properly cleaned because those stains are often just a part of the long road to being perfectly seasoned.