HOME > Chowhound > Food Media & News >
What's your latest food project? Get great advice
TELL US

Barilla Pasta anti-gay comments

LOCKED DISCUSSION
Ruth Lafler Sep 26, 2013 03:57 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09...

"For us, the 'sacral family' remains one of the company’s core values. Our family is a traditional family. If gays like our pasta and our advertisings, they will eat our pasta; if they don’t like that, they will eat someone else’s pasta."

I guess they will!

"I think we want to talk to traditional families. The women are crucial in this."

So he's not only anti-gay, but also sexist.

"I absolutely don’t respect adoptions in gay families, because that concerns a person who is not the people who decide."

"Barilla in its advertising has always chosen to represent the family because this is the symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone."

Make that "symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone," except gay people with children. Apparently, they don't count as families.

12
PRINT EMAIL LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
  1. The Chowhound Team Oct 14, 2013 11:32 PM

    Folks, we really think it's time to wrap this up at this point -- we're seeing the same posters having the same arguments over and over and over again, and each time, they get more personal and unfriendly.

    10
    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
    1. c oliver Oct 14, 2013 12:42 PM

      This might give a little more perspective. Please note that this is a straight person.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10...

      0
      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
      1. a
        atomicpurple Oct 13, 2013 01:16 AM

        I will remember this the next time I shop. I will assuredly buy their competitors product.

        4 Replies
        1
        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
        1. re: atomicpurple
          Fowler Oct 13, 2013 02:28 AM

          >>> I will assuredly buy their competitors product.<<<

          Which producers will you be patronizing?

          1
          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
          1. re: atomicpurple
            r
            rochfood Oct 14, 2013 10:48 AM

            I will most assuredly buy Barilla.

            1
            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
            1. re: rochfood
              mariacarmen Oct 14, 2013 03:38 PM

              because you like supporting company owners who say they would never have a gay family in their commercials? you are "pro" that, eh? or because you want to offset the wrack and ruin most (i believe) intolerant posters on this thread are going to cause this beleaguered business man? both are astoundingly good reasons.

              3
              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
              1. re: rochfood
                y
                youareabunny Oct 14, 2013 03:49 PM

                Why?

                1
                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
            2. c oliver Oct 11, 2013 03:40 AM

              Did this Forbest article already get posted?

              http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurahell...

              If so, I'll ask that this be deleted.

              28 Replies
              1
              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
              1. re: c oliver
                y
                youareabunny Oct 11, 2013 06:08 PM

                “I have heard the countless reactions around the world to my words, which have depressed and saddened me,” Barilla says. “It is clear that I have a lot to learn about the lively debate concerning the evolution of the family. In the coming weeks, I pledge to meet representatives of the group that best represent the evolution of the family, including those who have been offended by my words.”

                I hope he does.

                5
                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                1. re: youareabunny
                  hill food Oct 11, 2013 06:38 PM

                  interesting. very interesting.

                  "representatives of the group that best represent "
                  but now I fear the back splatter over who vies to speak for such a diverse group.

                  2
                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                  1. re: hill food
                    y
                    youareabunny Oct 11, 2013 10:55 PM

                    I searched for "who is the gayest person ever" and top two answers were dr Phil and Justin Bieber.

                    Google's failure aside, I vote Richard Simmons.

                    6
                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                    1. re: youareabunny
                      hill food Oct 14, 2013 01:54 PM

                      my niece thinks Justin Bieber IS in fact a young lesbian - a very "Boys Don't Cry" figure, just with entourage.

                      Richard Simmons? now that is a whole different barrel of crazed howler monkeys altogether. I find it hard to believe anybody outside of the realm of "Marketers to the Gullible" would want to ID with him, or let him speak for them (I'm sure his Mommy loved him, but that doesn't mean anybody else has to)

                      0
                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                      1. re: hill food
                        jrvedivici Oct 14, 2013 09:57 PM

                        I don't know if you ever listened to is, however for sometime he was a regular on the Howard Stern show, the basis of that "friendship" was truly unique. Richard Simmons would voluntarily go on his show, only to repeatedly be demeaned and insulted, over and over and over again. It was true train wreck radio, I could never understand why he would subject himself to that.

                        0
                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                        1. re: jrvedivici
                          Fowler Oct 14, 2013 10:06 PM

                          "I could never understand why he would subject himself to that.

                          Because he craves attention. Some people are so desperate for attention that it does not matter to them if it is positive or negative attention. You would naturally not understand that because you are a normal person.

                          0
                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                  2. re: youareabunny
                    c oliver Oct 12, 2013 12:25 AM

                    I was kinda surprised to read that. I consider Forbes a very reputable source so I'm pretty sure he must have said it. If so, why didn't the media jump on it? Not sensational enough, I guess.

                    1
                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                    1. re: youareabunny
                      EM23 Oct 12, 2013 01:22 AM

                      Interesting! That video statement by Guido Barilla appeared on the Barilla website in the days after this story broke, but it seems to have vanished from there altogether now. His initial press release apology and the company’s follow up press release are still there, but not the video from which that quote is taken.

                      0
                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                      1. re: EM23
                        hill food Oct 12, 2013 09:39 AM

                        well yeah - outrage sells ad shares, not understanding.

                        0
                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                    2. re: c oliver
                      chowser Oct 11, 2013 10:56 PM

                      I hope he does take the opportunity to learn why his message was offensive to people and that it's not just a business as usual type message because of the boycott. I think THAT is the reason to speak up. It has nothing to do w/ running Barilla out of business. It has do with not supporting discriminatory statements and letting the person know it's not acceptable. Remaining silent shows consent.

                      That said, I also think the Forbest article got it wrong, as evident by this thread. It has nothing to do w/ the purchasing power of the LBGT community since many don't even bat an eye to it. It has to do w/ the purchasing power of those who won't support discrimination.

                      3
                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                      1. re: chowser
                        y
                        youareabunny Oct 11, 2013 11:08 PM

                        Does one have to be gay to be a part of the LGBT community? I've had a few barsexual moments in my past but am otherwise pretty hetero. That said, until they receive equal treatment I'll continue to fight for them and consider myself as part of the community.

                        0
                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                        1. re: youareabunny
                          Fowler Oct 11, 2013 11:34 PM

                          >>>I've had a few barsexual moments in my past but am otherwise pretty hetero. <<<

                          What is "barsexual" and what does "pretty hetero" (sic) imply?

                          0
                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                          1. re: Fowler
                            mcf Oct 12, 2013 12:02 AM

                            "What is "barsexual" and what does "pretty hetero" (sic) imply?"

                            Flexibility.

                            Like gender identity, sexual orientation occurs across a continuum, not just at opposite ends.

                            3
                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                            1. re: mcf
                              Fowler Oct 12, 2013 12:08 AM

                              Thanks for the clarification/definition! Would you consider yourself "barsexual" and flexible and somewhere in the middle and not at opposite ends?

                              1
                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                              1. re: Fowler
                                mcf Oct 12, 2013 12:11 AM

                                Nope, not even a little, that's just not how I'm wired. But i know plenty of folks whose identities and/or orientations are nowhere near the ends of the spectrum.

                                If I had to bet, I'd guess more folks are flexible (though not necessarily "barsexual" than not.

                                1
                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                1. re: mcf
                                  hill food Oct 14, 2013 04:25 PM

                                  and that 'flexibility' lasts only as long as one's body does. touch my toes? go outside my personal comfort zone? that decreases by the day. it's cool. we all know what we like, in food and life and art and everything. doesn't mean a 'dis' on others who go down different paths.

                                  I firmly believe it shouldn't be an "either/or" world (in the broad not personal sense)

                                  0
                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                2. re: Fowler
                                  y
                                  youareabunny Oct 12, 2013 12:16 AM

                                  Barsexual is basically a sexual identity determined by BAC.

                                  And for me I have my preferences but could go in other directions depending on the person and/or situation. Like in 2006 I was really pissed off and almost got a girlfriend but decided I'd just be doing it out of spite, so I didn't. That and I got lazy.

                                  Here's another one for you:
                                  Pansexuality, or omnisexuality,[1] is sexual attraction, sexual desire, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward people of all gender identities and biological sexes.

                                  2
                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                  1. re: youareabunny
                                    t
                                    Tom34 Oct 12, 2013 01:29 AM

                                    Wow, I remember some of the basic theory of the early Kinsey studies but it seems some of the details have evaporated from my grey matter. Probably sooner than later my kids will re-educate me on the subject. A few bourbons will probably aid that process.

                                    1
                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                      r
                                      ratgirlagogo Oct 12, 2013 11:09 AM

                                      I am and have always been bisexual. What is BAC? Is it along the lines of LUG?

                                      In my experience (which of course is limited to MY experience) a whole lot of folks who claim to be straight up full-bore gay or straight are more flexible than that, sexually and romantically. Which doesn't mean they don't have a preference of course - just that if one were to actually look at what they actually felt and did over the course of their lives, they are more open than they feel comfortable admitting.

                                      2
                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                      1. re: ratgirlagogo
                                        t
                                        thimes Oct 12, 2013 11:42 AM

                                        A Kinsey 6 here. No flex. But I understand it gets complicated. Don't take a food blog as representative of a population is all I'm saying.

                                        And don't buy Barillo. Too many other options available.

                                        1
                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                        1. re: thimes
                                          c oliver Oct 12, 2013 12:00 PM

                                          Regarding options, I'll mention here that I stopped shopping at Lowe's a couple of years ago. I read about a TV program, something like "Muslims in America," that showed just how 'normal' the majority of Muslims are. A far right wing group put so much pressure on Lowes for advertising there that they stopped. I wrote their corporate office and never heard back. Then I met with the local manager who was actually pretty horrified by the company's stance. We had remodeled one house and bought a ton of things (thousands of dollars) from Lowe's. They will never get another dime from us. The Home Depot is just down the road. Let your money speak for you. Please.

                                          2
                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                          1. re: c oliver
                                            Fowler Oct 12, 2013 12:39 PM

                                            Excellent! Go after them c oliver! And really stick it to the hourly wage people that probably agree with you just so you can try to hurt the people at the top! Keep on going!

                                            1
                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            1. re: Fowler
                                              c oliver Oct 12, 2013 12:42 PM

                                              Actually The Home Depot has hired A LOT of former Lowe's employees. According to a number of employees I spoke with. I'm willing to accept your apology :)

                                              2
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                Fowler Oct 12, 2013 02:28 PM

                                                >>>According to a number of employees I spoke with<<<

                                                What are their names? I am sure we would all like to support your claim if you can substantiate your claim with the names of people you spoke with.

                                                0
                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                        2. re: ratgirlagogo
                                          d
                                          Daisy.G Oct 12, 2013 12:23 PM

                                          BAC = Blood Alcohol Content. As the BAC increases, the net of interest cast by the barsexual widens.

                                          1
                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                          1. re: Daisy.G
                                            c oliver Oct 12, 2013 12:33 PM

                                            Love it :)

                                            0
                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            1. re: Daisy.G
                                              girloftheworld Oct 12, 2013 02:49 PM

                                              I have an Aunt who is buysexual...when my uncle buys her jewlery she becomes sexual

                                              1
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                  2. re: youareabunny
                                    s
                                    speakhandsforme Oct 14, 2013 02:44 PM

                                    To most, you can be straight and what's called an "ally" to the community. Though there is some contention surrounding this self-ID, most queers will know what you mean.

                                    Speaking of the word "queer," this is the term I and my friends use to identify ourselves on the LGBTQAI+ spectrum. Just a catchall term for those who don't fall into the gender and/or sexuality binaries.

                                    0
                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                              2. ttoommyy Oct 7, 2013 07:57 PM

                                As a a gay man, I have made a few comments here (a few which have been deleted) responding to others' narrow views of homosexuals. I have yet to comment on the actual subject at hand though.

                                I haven't bought Barilla pasta in some time; I feel the quality has gone downhill in the last couple of years or so. That said, the comments made by the Barilla exec don't phase me in the least. They would not deter me from buying the pasta if I still liked it. We were just discussing this issue at work and it seems like the straight people were more offended by the anti-gay comments than I was. Inequality in marriage, crimes of violence, parents disowning their gay teen children, gay teen suicide; these are the types of issues that I am enraged by. A pasta company's offhanded, ill-informed remarks? Not so much.

                                62 Replies
                                5
                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                1. re: ttoommyy
                                  JAB Oct 7, 2013 10:06 PM

                                  You see no cause and effect?

                                  1
                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                  1. re: JAB
                                    ttoommyy Oct 8, 2013 02:42 AM

                                    No. I cannot worry myself about every comment made by every close minded person. I see and hear people every day make comments like this and if I worried about what they said I'd never have a life. I pick and choose what bothers me based on how threatening it is to my immediate safety and well-being. This pasta guy's comments do not bother me.

                                    2
                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                  2. re: ttoommyy
                                    c oliver Oct 8, 2013 12:21 AM

                                    I don't believe that bigotry suddenly springs to life fully formed. I believe it starts with seemingly harmless small things. When I was a little girl, we had a 'maid.' When my father would take her to the bus, she sat in the back seat.

                                    1
                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                    1. re: ttoommyy
                                      EarlyBird Oct 8, 2013 12:37 AM

                                      Funny you mention that. My wife and I were speaking about this with our gay neighbor and his boyfriend, and they too were pretty "meh" about it. They didn't like it of course, but they realized there are bigger fish to fry.

                                      0
                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                      1. re: EarlyBird
                                        c oliver Oct 8, 2013 12:43 AM

                                        If the "smaller" things are dealt with emphatically, it sends a message. When those issues aren't dealt with, it also sends a message. I am always going to land on the side of encouraging and protecting all human rights.

                                        1
                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                        1. re: c oliver
                                          m
                                          marblebag Oct 13, 2013 11:06 PM

                                          If everyone only cares about their immediate safety and well being then we could have world peace. It is when we care a bit "wider" that the world will become a better place.

                                          0
                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                      2. re: ttoommyy
                                        linguafood Oct 8, 2013 01:25 AM

                                        But there may well be many, many other gay men and women who'd prefer to boycott a company that makes such statements, whether they find them "enraging" or simply vote with their money - regardless of whether the brand has been going downhill.

                                        1
                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                        1. re: linguafood
                                          jrvedivici Oct 8, 2013 01:31 AM

                                          But do you think they took into account that gay marriage is illegal in Italy and so is gay adoption?

                                          (lmao, I'm sorry lingua I couldn't resist!!)

                                          0
                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                          1. re: jrvedivici
                                            c oliver Oct 8, 2013 02:28 AM

                                            I don't understand the relevancy of that. As has been stated on this thread, illegality of an issue doesn't make it immoral or unjust. And I understand that the issue of gay adoption is looking much brighter:

                                            http://articles.chicagotribune.com/20...

                                            Don't forget that while the Catholic Church is still powerful, it isn't the governing body of Italy.

                                            0
                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            1. re: c oliver
                                              jrvedivici Oct 8, 2013 02:34 AM

                                              I've given my explanation for that "theory" several times in this thread and won't rehash it here.

                                              My only reason for posting this to Lingua was to tease her a bit because yesterday she made it clear she was tired of hearing this from me. No agenda here, was just attempting at playing with Lingua a bit.

                                              My apologies.

                                              0
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            2. re: jrvedivici
                                              m
                                              marblebag Oct 13, 2013 11:08 PM

                                              Firing someone for being homosexual is still legal in many US states but it doesn't mean we cannot have an opinion about it. Your whole premise is pretty weak.

                                              1
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                              1. re: marblebag
                                                jrvedivici Oct 14, 2013 09:55 PM

                                                I'm sorry however the post which your comment here is directed towards was more or less an "inside joke" intended for linquafood, and not a "premise" of any kind. As you can see in another post (currently directly above yours) is my explaining this to c oliver as well.

                                                0
                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            3. re: linguafood
                                              ttoommyy Oct 8, 2013 02:46 AM

                                              "But there may well be many, many other gay men and women who'd prefer to boycott a company that makes such statements, whether they find them "enraging" or simply vote with their money - regardless of whether the brand has been going downhill."

                                              Sure, and they are of course welcome to do so. My comments were an expression of how I feel; I do not profess to speak for all gay men and women.

                                              2
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                              1. re: ttoommyy
                                                KaimukiMan Oct 8, 2013 06:49 PM

                                                I'm a gay man who choose to toss out two boxes of barilla and not buy it again until i see a real apology, preferably in the form of a commercial featuring a gay couple sitting down to a family supper. And I mean family including maybe parents, uncles or aunts, grandparents, youngsters etc. But thats just my feeling. I certainly understand where ttoommyy is coming from, and I'm sure he understands my feelings. Tolerance begins at home.

                                                2
                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                            4. re: ttoommyy
                                              Justpaula Oct 8, 2013 05:28 AM

                                              I briefly chatted about this last night with a gay friend of mine who also has a love of cooking. His sentiments seemed largely aligned with yours - bigger issues to concern himself with. He also works in the airline industry and referred to friends ("mostly dingbat flight attendants", in his words) who posted pics on social media of their Barilla in the garbage - he thought that was stupid. He did mention that he hopes he hears some sort of "recrimination" for Mr. Barilla's statements from the company before his next shopping trip, because Barilla is his preferred brand and he "really doesn't *want* to have to think about this". So, while he did not cry out "BOYCOTT", he has hopes that the situation will be attended to by the Barilla company. I think his main point to me was that both as a gay man and a person with an interest in general politics, he has bigger fish to fry and more on his mind than Mr. Barilla's comments. I actually reached out to ask him, because I was curious if this was, in fact, a case of gay-rights supporting heteros getting more upset than gay people. Then again, I have a different gay friend who posted an FB status update the other day saying that "Barilla pasta makes him throw up". It was before I read about any of this, and my real thought was, "How can one brand of pasta make someone throw up????".

                                              0
                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                              1. re: Justpaula
                                                chowser Oct 8, 2013 05:52 AM

                                                So 640 some posts later, the conclusion is that the gay community,like the straight community, isn't of one mindset. I don't think his words deserve any more action than, at most, not buying the product but we all draw the line where we're comfortable and I wouldn't denounce where others draw the line. Had he advocated that those who are gay belong in jail or worst, I'd have different feelings.

                                                2
                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                1. re: chowser
                                                  Justpaula Oct 8, 2013 06:37 AM

                                                  Yep. I'd say that about sums it up. We are all human. We are all entitled to our views and we are all entitled to disagree with others views. We are all entitled to think that certain views are bigoted and intolerant, and we are all entitled to respond to them as we wish. We can think his comments were intolerant and bigoted, but even so, still really, really like to eat Barilla pasta and keep on buying it and we are also entitled to have the same feelings about his statements and choose to spend our money elsewhere because of them. We can try to educate people and others can try to educated us or we can all mind our own business (lolololol). Ultimately, though, we are all individuals, gay or straight, or both, and it is okay for us to react to this event any way we want. In my opinion, the *height* of intolerance is not accepting *that* point....that we are all able to have different feelings about/responses to Mr. Barilla's statements and make decisions based upon them without being called out as an intolerant individual.

                                                  3
                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                    c oliver Oct 8, 2013 06:55 AM

                                                    And I think yours would be a perfect ending to this thread. Haven't we all said all we want or need to say?

                                                    0
                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                    1. re: c oliver
                                                      Justpaula Oct 8, 2013 08:41 AM

                                                      I believe so. :)

                                                      It sure has been an interesting and even fun discussion and overall (unless I missed stuff), I think everyone has been very open minded, fair and generally respectful. I really appreciate the opportunity to challenge and be challenged and learn and gain insight from my fellow Chowhounders. Once again, I'd like to thank the mods for allowing us to go on and on about this topic. Good stuff.

                                                      And, I hate to go off topic, but just for the record, I made Mexican Chicken Soup for dinner tonight and it was delicious. I hope everyone else enjoyed terrific meals the last few days. Hee, hee! ;)

                                                      1
                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                        KaimukiMan Oct 8, 2013 06:52 PM

                                                        I'm guessing the moderators did an especially good job of keeping this one civil and mostly on-track. But it has been interesting reading, and for the most part rewarding.

                                                        1
                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                        1. re: KaimukiMan
                                                          c oliver Oct 9, 2013 12:31 AM

                                                          Agree. This is the ONLY thread that's gotten this big that I've continued to read.

                                                          0
                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                              2. re: ttoommyy
                                                e
                                                ErnieD Oct 9, 2013 06:04 AM

                                                That's certainly your right. You have more of a horse in this race than I do as a straight woman. I would even agree with you that there are larger issues if we were each only allowed to care about one single thing at a time. Speaking only for myself, I'm concerned about all of the issues that you mention, and they probably are more important than this comment. However, it's not like I only have a finite amount of concern to spare. I have access to at least ten brands of pasta. I don't see why I should buy one from a guy who said flat out that he doesn't consider some of my friends' families to be legitimate.

                                                I also do think that comments like these play directly into some of the issues you mention. In my experience, when straight people don't consider gay families to be "real," they are less likely to vote for gay marriage amendments. When kids hear dehumanizing comments about gay people, they are more likely to bully gay peers, which most people seem to think feeds into the gay teen suicide rate. It would be one thing if this were just one isolated incident, but honestly most people are bombarded with this same message, both directly and indirectly. There are an awful lot of offhanded and ill-informed remarks being tossed around, and a lot of them are being both made and heard by people who are voting on gay civil rights issues and raising children. That concerns me.

                                                6
                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                1. re: ErnieD
                                                  ttoommyy Oct 9, 2013 07:58 AM

                                                  "However, it's not like I only have a finite amount of concern to spare."

                                                  Well, I do! If I were to concern myself with ever injustice that crosses my path in the course of a day, I would lead a miserable life. But that is just me. Of course, I respect all that you said and applaud your concern.

                                                  1
                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                  1. re: ErnieD
                                                    chowser Oct 9, 2013 08:19 AM

                                                    That's a well written post. There have been times in the past when I've let comments that are discriminatory go and I regret it after the fact. One person said something about a pedophile, "Well, at least he liked the right sex." I let it go and then another time she talked about how her daughter had a teacher who was taking an interest in her child and when she found out the teacher was a lesbian, she knew there was something wrong. The teacher was an excellent teacher who took time with every child. I spoke up then. I've learned that if you let things like that go, they'll keep happening. Sure, it could have been worst but I wish I had spoken up earlier.

                                                    4
                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                    1. re: chowser
                                                      c oliver Oct 9, 2013 08:50 AM

                                                      Being a recovering Catholic, it was called a "sin of omission." And I agree with you. If I don't speak up, I feel the sin is part mine.

                                                      2
                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                      1. re: chowser
                                                        y
                                                        youareabunny Oct 9, 2013 03:39 PM

                                                        I remember when I first got Internet in 1997ish, my friends would send chain or joke emails around.

                                                        I remember one titled "good, bad, worse." One joke went something like:
                                                        Good - your son's teacher likes him
                                                        Bad - sexually
                                                        Worse - your son's teacher is male

                                                        I was 13 at the time and thought it was wrong, although I wasn't entirely sure why and couldn't articulate it. The email included a string of comments. Granted these may have all been other youngins sharing this but many would write "ohhhh grosss LOL" and stuff.

                                                        I can't imagine what it's like to face so much discrimination that you become too tired to bother with it all. But I always will say something. Some fight to love, but I love to fight

                                                        1
                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                          hill food Oct 9, 2013 04:37 PM

                                                          oh wow - smack to the forehead time, in 97 I was 32.

                                                          gotta say - keep the convictions, just choose the battles.

                                                          1
                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                          1. re: youareabunny
                                                            JAB Oct 9, 2013 10:37 PM

                                                            I'll share a similar 1st hand experience. I was just standing watching a youth basketball game along with some others. A person walked up to talk to the person standing next to me and began talking about how terrible it was that so and so's 16 year old daughter was pregnant and, to make matters worse, the father of the baby was black. I was blown away at how matter of factly this person stated this for all around to overhear.

                                                            1
                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                            1. re: JAB
                                                              y
                                                              youareabunny Oct 10, 2013 07:17 AM

                                                              Horrible! As much as I'd have liked to say something to that person, it can be hard to inject yourself into another's conversation. But I certainly don't let that sort of talk go with my friends and family.

                                                              0
                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                        2. re: ErnieD
                                                          mariacarmen Oct 9, 2013 01:29 PM

                                                          this thread is ever-evolving, and i'm glad it's not been shut down. great thoughts.

                                                          1
                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                          1. re: ErnieD
                                                            y
                                                            youareabunny Oct 9, 2013 03:32 PM

                                                            I have a female family member who prefers suits, always dresses as Iron Man, Spider Man, or some other man for Halloween, and asks Santa to make her a boy.

                                                            She's 6. She's been doing this since she could walk and talk. She has a typical girly teenage sister and a cool, macho-ish tweenage brother.

                                                            She just started school and is being picked on, relentlessly. The children tell her that she is sick, that she'll grow up to have sex with girls, that she's gross.

                                                            I can't imagine that these kids have had long, in depth conversations with their parents, or anyone re: homosexuality. But it starts somewhere - little comments, etc. So while I understand that what Barillaman said really is nothing compared to the many issues that LGBT community face, as many have mentioned, these issues stem from such sentiments.

                                                            And with that:

                                                             
                                                            3
                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                            1. re: youareabunny
                                                              hill food Oct 9, 2013 04:41 PM

                                                              I couldn't follow the link tonight, but I say your gal is awesome. most of my friends who have boys go through a period where tutu's and veils with a Superman costume are a "good idea" and tomorrow? Wonder Woman in muddy overalls!

                                                              people put too much value on apparel. everyday is Halloween for some kids.

                                                              ehh who knows, maybe her gender ID changes in what ever way. yet I trust that you (pretty sure on that) and all who love her will love her no less.

                                                              1
                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                              1. re: hill food
                                                                y
                                                                youareabunny Oct 9, 2013 04:57 PM

                                                                She's perfect the way she is. I just find it hard to believe that 6 year olds are saying this stuff to her.

                                                                It starts somewhere.

                                                                1
                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                1. re: youareabunny
                                                                  s
                                                                  saltylady Oct 10, 2013 04:40 AM

                                                                  Children at 5 or 6 have definite opinions on how boys and girls are "supposed" to act .They are finding their place in the world . They may or may not be influenced by the parents or grandparents in their own opinons. Dont you remember thinking at that age that the opposite sex was icky and wearing costumey clothes to identify who you were? A princess , a pirate? I know several woman who identified with mail actors on tv shows at age 5 or 6 probably because they are more exiciting . .
                                                                  At any rate , hateful stereo types do not discourage this behaviour .
                                                                  Back to the original topic , I am not sure how effective boycotting is , but if something bothers you , dont buy the product ..

                                                                  0
                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                              2. re: youareabunny
                                                                EarlyBird Oct 10, 2013 01:03 AM

                                                                I don't know what's sadder, the idea that this little girl is being picked on, or that her fellow six year olds are talking about her having sex.

                                                                1
                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                  linguafood Oct 10, 2013 02:11 AM

                                                                  Children are sexual beings from a very early age on. And you'd have to live under a rock in this country to not know or not have heard about sex, even as a kid.

                                                                  0
                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                    EarlyBird Oct 10, 2013 06:18 AM

                                                                    I know children are sexual beings. I certainly was. But there is a difference between being sexual beings and knowing all about "having sex" at such a tender age. The latter is the nature of our hypersexualized society, and it's sad.

                                                                    1
                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                      linguafood Oct 10, 2013 06:24 AM

                                                                      I guess my definition of 'tender age' is more realistic... or perhaps just jaded. I knew what sex was about at the age of 7, and that was quite a while ago.

                                                                      As for this society -- I find it to be much more hyper-violent than anything. Sex is natural, while blowing people's heads off.... not so much.

                                                                      But now we're totally OT.

                                                                      2
                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                        jrvedivici Oct 10, 2013 10:50 PM

                                                                        I think at the age of 7 I was shooting myself in the eye, when I went to the bathroom, still fascinated by how that thing worked. I don't think I would have been able to grasp the fact it was something more than a salty water pistol at that age.

                                                                        0
                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                          t
                                                                          Tom34 Oct 11, 2013 01:56 AM

                                                                          Hard to know whats normal anymore let alone why!

                                                                          "Hyper-violent , blowing peoples heads off"

                                                                          Only a blind subterranean mole could claim ignorance to this phenomenon, the seeds that started it and the continued spew of legislation that has incubated it. Yet our politicians and many influential clergy are worried about same sex marriage and children raised therein. TERM LIMITS NOW!!!!!!!

                                                                          3
                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                          1. re: Tom34
                                                                            The Chowhound Team Oct 11, 2013 03:08 AM

                                                                            This thread has had pretty broad latitude, but violence in society is a whole other 700 post thread. Could we ask that people please not go down that path here? Thanks.

                                                                            4
                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                            1. re: The Chowhound Team
                                                                              t
                                                                              Tom34 Oct 11, 2013 05:08 AM

                                                                              I was just responding to a previous posters comment which I put in quotes to illustrate the point that the priorities of many influential people & law makers seem to be out of touch with reality.

                                                                              In my state, the Gov just attempted to thwart a Court decision affirming same sex marriage rights yet every night the first 5 minutes of the evening news is largely comprised of violent acts consistent with the previous posters comment and yet the Gov has little if anything to say about that.

                                                                              1
                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                        2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                          y
                                                                          youareabunny Oct 10, 2013 07:19 AM

                                                                          I was probably 10 and still did not know what sex was. And I never picked on anyone for anything... I actually got picked on for befriending the children who were poked fun at for being (specific cases here) fat, unclean, and a bit mentally retarded.

                                                                          0
                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                          1. re: youareabunny
                                                                            HillJ Oct 10, 2013 07:25 AM

                                                                            One of my kids was singled out for have a very diverse group of friends when he was in high school. Those same people have his back today.

                                                                            If we all lived our lives according to the voices of others, it wouldn't be OUR life.

                                                                            0
                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                    2. re: youareabunny
                                                                      linguafood Oct 10, 2013 02:15 AM

                                                                      That's just bizarre. For one thing -- the fact that your 6-year old family member likes to dress in boys clothes doesn't *have* to mean or "foreshadow" anything.

                                                                      I was a tomboy for most of my childhood and prayed many nights (yes, I was a silly kid) to wake up as a boy for about a year or two -- I think I mostly envied the ability of pissing wherever you were.

                                                                      Nobody ever made fun of my clothes, and this was the 70s....

                                                                      I guess I should consider myself lucky that my mom didn't immediately think "gender-reassignment surgery" (the other side of that coin), as I'm quite happy with being a woman.

                                                                      0
                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                        y
                                                                        youareabunny Oct 10, 2013 07:25 AM

                                                                        I think it's quite a leap for 6 year olds to draw these conclusion about her. I understand the cooties issue that children have with each other but calling her gay and the sex with girls comment is much more IMO

                                                                        I did speak with my friend about the issue. She spent a few years working the after school program for k-5 students. One girl had 2 mothers and most of the responses were "you're so lucky you have two moms, you get more love" and the others would ask "do you have a daddy?" So it was definitely refreshing hearing that.

                                                                        I really have no idea why those kids would say those things. Were they taught them specifically? Was it past through the grapevine by some others? School just started and it did not take them long to do this to her.

                                                                        0
                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                          linguafood Oct 10, 2013 07:32 AM

                                                                          Maybe. I don't have kids, and my nephews are older.

                                                                          However, I would not be surprised if kids didn't pick up on these clues earlier these days, given the information with which they are consistently bombarded.

                                                                          FWIW, I don't recall kids calling each other "motherfucker" when I was that age, and it's now a fairly common insult from what I hear.

                                                                          O tempora, o mores.

                                                                          1
                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                          1. re: youareabunny
                                                                            JonParker Oct 11, 2013 06:48 PM

                                                                            I think that kind of behavior has to have been emulated. That said, it could be traceable to one kid whose behavior is in turn being emulated by the others.

                                                                            1
                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                          2. re: linguafood
                                                                            girloftheworld Oct 10, 2013 07:39 AM

                                                                            my sister is now 15 she always wore clothes that are traditionaly made for boys.( my mom says there is no such thing as boy clothes or girl clothes just clothes you are comfortable in) she was the only girl not to wear a dress to her 8th grade formal or her 8th grade graduation she always wanted to be buzz lightyear not a princess... she is gorgeous too. but clothes have nothing to do with sexual identity

                                                                            0
                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                            1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                              linguafood Oct 10, 2013 07:45 AM

                                                                              Yep.

                                                                              0
                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                              1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                EarlyBird Oct 10, 2013 07:48 AM

                                                                                "but clothes have nothing to do with sexual identity"

                                                                                Sure they do. It's just that we shouldn't judge people's sexuality, or their choice in clothes, or their decision to go outside the assigned norm. But tell a fashion designer that clothing doesn't express the wearer's sexuality, and you'll get in a fight.

                                                                                1
                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                  girloftheworld Oct 10, 2013 08:48 AM

                                                                                  sexuality and sexual identity are not really the same thing... My sister was amazingly full of sexuality in her black silk pants and white silk shirt unbuttonrd about one button from dresscode her blonde hair spiked and she was not sexualy identifing as a male because of her clothes

                                                                                  0
                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                  1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                    y
                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 10, 2013 04:35 PM

                                                                                    In 2003 or 2004 my cousin went to jr/sr year high school home coming. She wore blouse and pants, formal enough for a wedding, funeral, or job interview. Once she got there she had to call her mom to bring her to the store as she was not wearing a dress and thus violated dress code for the dance. It wasn't worth the fight I suppose, but I do hope that things have changed since then.

                                                                                    I don't have children and have very limited contact with children (family are all over the place) so I really have no idea where they are learning these things. But children can be parrots sometimes and I think whoever said that to her "you're gross, when you grow up you will have sex with girls" heard it one place, repeated and elaborated it to insult her, and now his friends may or may not repeat and elaborate, etc. All the while she stood there with a "wtf are you talking about" look on her face and ended up biting the kid. So now she's gay, gross AND a biter. Just glad she's got great family support.

                                                                                    0
                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                      hill food Oct 10, 2013 06:37 PM

                                                                                      yab: re your cousin - that's sad. if I were her I'd have been tempted to rip the inseams outta the pants and sported a REALLY salacious slit skirt - "y'all happy now, flappy enough for you?"

                                                                                      2
                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                      1. re: hill food
                                                                                        y
                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 10, 2013 09:12 PM

                                                                                        She and I are better versed now and see that for the BS that it is. I read now about lesbian and gay couples going to school dances in whatever formal attire they want, and even a few stories of transgender prom queens. So I think schools and students are becoming more understanding and welcoming. I'm curious to compare how these sort of barilla statements are supported by Guido's generation, versus mine, and versus the newest.

                                                                                        0
                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                      2. re: youareabunny
                                                                                        linguafood Oct 11, 2013 05:53 AM

                                                                                        Glad she got to bite the kid, tho '-)

                                                                                        1
                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                              2. re: youareabunny
                                                                                JonParker Oct 11, 2013 06:46 PM

                                                                                When I was just starting to go through puberty, there was a neighborhood guy who was a senior in high school that I very much looked up to. At some point he told me that he was gay.

                                                                                Being confused about all manner of things sexual and non-sexual, I decided that I would like to be gay too, and proceeded to confess my gayness all around. Now, I'm actually not gay then or now, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

                                                                                I do remember that no one seemed to think much of it, either because I was completely full of shit on a number of topics or because people just didn't care. Eventually I gave up the idea of being gay and moved on to wanting to be a Satanist because of the availability of naked women. I was really glad when I outgrew my going through stages stage.

                                                                                0
                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                1. re: JonParker
                                                                                  hill food Oct 11, 2013 09:15 PM

                                                                                  heh - there's always a bit of confusion. at that age you're just uhh, horny. what matters is how you and your ID shakes out and sets and your handling of that. I saw a hysterical piece on youtube tonight by some guy who had similar concerns before he realized "while I do like ice skating to the Village People I'm straight, just not a 'guy'-ish guy maybe" (paraphrased)

                                                                                  this is where and when the gray areas become funny.

                                                                                  3
                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                  1. re: hill food
                                                                                    JonParker Oct 11, 2013 11:37 PM

                                                                                    To be fair I was a bit young for that, but not by much. I did learn not to let other people define who I was though. Now I love baseball, football, chicken wings, mid-century modern china and the Pet Shop Boys. Make of that what you will.

                                                                                    0
                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                  2. re: JonParker
                                                                                    jrvedivici Oct 14, 2013 10:07 PM

                                                                                    Wow....and Wow.....

                                                                                    This "confession or admission" whichever you want to consider it, really raises some questions for me.

                                                                                    It seems to me, and if I'm misreading this I apologize in advance, that you are almost making the argument that being gay or homosexual doesn't have to be a biological thing, meaning people can "choose to be gay, or choose not to?"

                                                                                    You made a choice to follow in the footsteps of someone you admired, and confess yourself as gay?

                                                                                    Doesn't that support those who argue that you can "cure" people of being gay? I could see how parents, such as yours, if they were alarmed by your confession(s) would put you into counseling then later you identify again as being straight, and they credit the counseling, thus thinking you were "cured"? Is that a huge leap of faith based on your story above?

                                                                                    How long did you try to identify as gay? Is this something that lasted a couple of days, weeks, months or years?

                                                                                    I know you are very pro-gay/lgbt rights and I even believe you mentioned having a gay child (If I'm mistaken again my apologies) so your revelation here I find very interesting to say the least.

                                                                                    0
                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                    1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                      y
                                                                                      youareabunny Oct 14, 2013 10:38 PM

                                                                                      "Being confused about all manner of things sexual and non-sexual, I decided that I would like to be gay too..."

                                                                                      That key part just before the ,

                                                                                      0
                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                      1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                        jrvedivici Oct 14, 2013 10:57 PM

                                                                                        I understand that, so couldn't the argument be made that many teenagers (I am assuming this is the age range) are just "confused" and not really gay/lgbt? Which directly goes against most of what I have understood gay/lgbt believes, that it's not a "choice" or decision you can't be "confused" on, it is who you are.

                                                                                        Being confused to me would support the mindset that counseling or education or "reprogramming" could work. "He's not really gay, he's just confused."??

                                                                                        0
                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                            2. globocity Oct 5, 2013 02:47 AM

                                                                              Maybe all could be forgiven if the chairman of Barilla
                                                                              releases a statement saying, "I is what I is".

                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                              1
                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                              1. re: globocity
                                                                                y
                                                                                youareabunny Oct 5, 2013 04:21 PM

                                                                                But if U is not, is U not?

                                                                                0
                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                1. re: globocity
                                                                                  mtlcowgirl Oct 9, 2013 10:46 PM

                                                                                  LOL. And look where it got HER.

                                                                                  0
                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                2. j
                                                                                  JerkPork Oct 4, 2013 02:24 AM

                                                                                  I saw the Lewis Black bit on Jon Stewart, hilarious as usual. Loved the dinner scenes pulled from movies.

                                                                                  I personally think these comments were overblown but he should have known better than to make them public. I doubt this will affect their sales and if it does these boycotts will just end up hurting the Barilla factory worker not him. Because if sales do truly drop, he'll just layoff people and still make his profits.

                                                                                  This is why I think these types of boycotts are counter-productive.

                                                                                  1
                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                  1. y
                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 3, 2013 03:26 PM

                                                                                    "I absolutely don’t respect adoptions in gay families, because that concerns a person who is not the people who decide."

                                                                                    In the U.S. 400,540 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 115,000 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 40% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.

                                                                                    Around the world, there are an estimated 153 million orphans
                                                                                    who have lost one parent. There are 17,900,000 orphans who have lost both parents and are living in orphanages or on the streets and lack the care and attention required for healthy development. These children are at risk for disease, malnutrition, and death.

                                                                                    http://www.ccainstitute.org/why-we-do...

                                                                                    14 Replies
                                                                                    3
                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                      jrvedivici Oct 3, 2013 10:17 PM

                                                                                      "I absolutely don’t respect adoptions in gay families, because that concerns a person who is not the people who decide."
                                                                                      (Fill me in on the source of that quote please, is that what Barilla said or someone else in this thread? It doesn't appear you are responding to someone, thanks)

                                                                                      While this is now completely off topic and will most likely get removed, I do have a couple of questions regarding your stat's. Isn't the big problem with adoption in this country the endless bureaucratic hoops both straight and gay couples face in the adoption process?

                                                                                      It was my very uninformed impression the reason you see so many celebrities going outside our boarders for adoptions is simply because it's easier, is that correct?

                                                                                      (simply in an attempt at keeping this on topic until you can respond)
                                                                                      Do you have any stat's on how many, if any, of the foster care homes in this country use Barilla pasta?

                                                                                      0
                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                        y
                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 3, 2013 10:37 PM

                                                                                        Many articles quote him directly, although I can't find an article I had seen which had the interview in full.

                                                                                        "I respect same-sex marriage because that concerns people who want to contract marriage, but I absolutely don’t respect adoptions in gay families, because that concerns a person who is not the people who decide," he added. <~ there's another one. Seems that many articles choose to paraphrase that bit

                                                                                        I can't speak to the difficulties of US adoption but third world adoption is not easy, either. I believe most celebrities adopt from third world countries because of the additional hardships said children face. I had a professor adopt a baby from Kazakhstan. Why? Because how often do you hear of people adopting Kazakh babies, that's why. I don't imagine that flying to and from another country, dealing with paperwork and what you hope to be a legit adoption center, is any easier than adopting in the US (for an average person, anyway).

                                                                                        My point was what sort of effect would it have if LGBT individuals/couples were not able to adopt? And having done some reading, I see that parental rights are not equal depending on jurisdiction. Some couples can adopt the child together, in some cases only one parent can adopt the child, etc.

                                                                                        0
                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                          jrvedivici Oct 3, 2013 11:32 PM

                                                                                          I completely understood your point, I just wasn't aware or perhaps remembered reading Barilla make those comments about adoption among gay families. (which I agree are very harsh)

                                                                                          My next question would be this, does anyone know what Italy's laws are regarding gay adoption? Is it legal in Italy? This goes towards one of my "gray" area's regarding this entire topic. I don't know how much of this entire thing is "lost in translation" meaning we are all applying our views, which I think globally are rather progressive with regard to gay rights/marriage/adoption etc. I know I have read there are area's in Canada that seem to be more progressive than we are, but overall globally I think the US is among the more LGBT "friendly" countries. Am I wrong with my understanding?

                                                                                          0
                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                            t
                                                                                            thimes Oct 3, 2013 11:36 PM

                                                                                            We are more in the middle globally as opposed to on the leading edge for sure - on a lot of things these days.

                                                                                            1
                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                              EM23 Oct 4, 2013 01:15 AM

                                                                                              My next question would be this, does anyone know what Italy's laws are regarding gay adoption? Is it legal in Italy?
                                                                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              This is what has puzzled me about Barilla's radio comments--gay marriage and gay adoption are not legal in Italy--what was his motive for so publicly stating his company’s objections to both? I have wondered if his comments were not, in some way, an attempt to speak out against the Pope's comments the week before about the Church and gay marriage. An oddly timed coincidence…

                                                                                              http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-New...

                                                                                              1
                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                              1. re: EM23
                                                                                                Justpaula Oct 4, 2013 02:29 AM

                                                                                                That sounds about right. Having not read or heard the entire interview, I am comfortable with assuming that is how this topic came up. Another assumption on my part, but perhaps because he is an economic leader in Italy, he feels his words hold some sway over the population. Maybe he fears both gay marriage and gay adoptions are coming closer to being legal in Italy (I have no idea if there is a movement towards them there), so he voiced his opinion against both. Unfortunately for him, his pasta is sold worldwide, and in the United States, his comments can be considered very ugly and boycott-worthy. I guess he got caught up discussing Italian political and social issues and forgot about the rest of the world - where he makes a lot of money.

                                                                                                1
                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                  EM23 Oct 4, 2013 02:52 AM

                                                                                                  Another assumption on my part, but perhaps because he is an economic leader in Italy, he feels his words hold some sway over the population.
                                                                                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                  That’s what I was thinking, and he may be quite right given the huge Catholic majority in Italy. But I bet he never bargained on his statements going global, a wonder in the social media age, and I wonder if he will continue to run the Barilla Group for much longer.

                                                                                                  BTW, the Pope’s statements were not what precipitated Barilla’s comments. See here:
                                                                                                  http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9182...

                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                              2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                y
                                                                                                youareabunny Oct 4, 2013 01:52 AM

                                                                                                I believe the church has a stronghold over Italy so they are less progressive re LGBT rights than the USA. Similar in France however they are(did?) pass gay marriage even with guy shooting himself in the face in front of Notre Dame (I believe it was a anti-gay marriage statement).

                                                                                                I know that in the Philippines gays are pretty welcome.

                                                                                                And Thimes is right re parents wanting a newborn. That's why most make their own ;). It can be easier getting a newborn in a 3rd world country but then there are issues there (women paid to get pregnant by the adoption company, for example).

                                                                                                Anyway these are babies and children that need homes and I think denying LGBT parents is denying the children as well.

                                                                                                0
                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                  jrvedivici Oct 4, 2013 02:27 AM

                                                                                                  Exactly I would tend to agree with you regarding a "church stronghold" in Italy.

                                                                                                  So this is where I find my dilemma with this entire situation, is this a case of;

                                                                                                  A.) A person espousing their opinion with the intention of harm or hate, where they intended for their words to have a negative impact upon those they are speaking of? In this case was Barilla really speaking with the intention of defamation towards the LGBT community -or-

                                                                                                  B.) Someone from a different culture, a culture which is far less progressive and accepting as our own. Someone who made some fairly ignorant and inflammatory statements, off handed, however fairly representative of the society and culture to which he was addressing those comments. (this was the result of an Italian radio interview, not a NY radio station or even international such as CNN). If you are speaking to a captive audience which the majority share the same antiquated views that you do, does that make your words malicious?

                                                                                                  Neither scenario above excuses the comments, it just changes what light you care to judge the person under. Is he a anti-gay rights hate monger, or an idiot who should have just kept his mouth shut?

                                                                                                  Based on the majority of the comments and opinions it seems the anti-gay hat monger is the majority of the feelings. Myself, I think he's an idiot, sad to say.

                                                                                                  That's just my opinion.

                                                                                                  I have a theory on opinions as well, Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Some however just stink more than others. If you feel mine is a stinky one I apologize, I will try to wash my opinion(s) more thoroughly in the future.

                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                    y
                                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 4, 2013 05:19 AM

                                                                                                    I would have to agree with you. He seems more a mal-informed idiot than hate monger. I've had relations with a few and this doesn't seem the same.

                                                                                                    He said this in Italy and probably 90% of people cheered. Ok I'm just guessing that but I think it's safe to say that Italian sentiments do not mirror US's.

                                                                                                    His apologies didn't seem sincere to me, or many of us and I doubt much would ever result from any attempt to teach him or anyone else with his belief... As many in that camp apparently view homosexuality as both a choice and a sin. And even re: pope Francis' recent statements I'm seeing either 1) disagreement or 2) accusations that his statements are being taken out of context from the catholic camp (I'm talking people on Facebook, forums, commenting on sites etc) so I'm not sure how much forward movement they will have re LGBT rights

                                                                                                    I just had a huge seafood platter and 3 cocktails and about to have 3 more. NOW WHEN ARE WE HAVING OUR DRINKATHON?

                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                  hill food Oct 4, 2013 12:39 PM

                                                                                                  jr - we could be better, but not the bottom of the barrel (and I'm talking from no-neck land)

                                                                                                  eh it's all an evolution. so different from 20 years ago. Guido is a dinosaur. politically, Italy may not say certain things for public record, but...

                                                                                                  it's a far cooler place than what is stated.

                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                              3. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                t
                                                                                                thimes Oct 3, 2013 11:16 PM

                                                                                                It is not easier to adopt out of the country.

                                                                                                The problem (as I understand it) is two fold (to over generalize)

                                                                                                1) many adopting parents want newborns, so a huge number of adoptable kids in the US are "too old" for these parents, thus they have to look to other countries to widen the newborn pool

                                                                                                2) many adopting parents are unwilling to take on the risks associated with the changing dynamic of US new born adoption - (read "crack babies"). The sad reality is that foreign new borns are more likely financial hardships that don't have the associated risks of prenatal drug exposure, more common now in the US adoption pool.

                                                                                                Wouldn't the world be a better place if straight people weren't so irresponsible with their reproductive parts :D It's just my opinion but straight people cause most of the problems in this world, i wish there were more laws restricting their behaviors, we'd all be better off. :D

                                                                                                3
                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                1. re: thimes
                                                                                                  mcf Oct 4, 2013 12:00 AM

                                                                                                  :-D Perspective!

                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                  1. re: thimes
                                                                                                    hill food Oct 4, 2013 12:46 PM

                                                                                                    yeah really! don't get me started on rescue/shelter dogs much less children!

                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                              4. m
                                                                                                MaddysDaddy2 Oct 3, 2013 12:03 PM

                                                                                                You know I just don't get it... saying that people who don't side with their view that "Gay is okay" are automatically bigots. So they put their beliefs out there, so what? Nothing to see here, move along. If you don't like their views, buy Skinner.

                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                0
                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                1. re: MaddysDaddy2
                                                                                                  c
                                                                                                  calumin Oct 3, 2013 12:26 PM

                                                                                                  Your perspective is not as defensible in cases when you are the target of that person's bigoted comments, and when you see others rush to support the bigoted viewpoint.

                                                                                                  I personally agree with EarlyBird's position earlier in this thread that the Barilla chairman's comments don't strike with the same level of fervor as Jerry Falwell or other religious extremists.

                                                                                                  However I would never object to someone's right and desire to express their offense at those words and to take action to correct the perceived injustice. The Barilla chairman created the situation for himself -- he gets what he deserves in return.

                                                                                                  4
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                2. c oliver Oct 3, 2013 11:58 AM

                                                                                                  From the SFBA board:

                                                                                                  http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/919119

                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                  1. c oliver Oct 3, 2013 11:02 AM

                                                                                                    Just have to point out that Lewis Black addressed this on The Daily Show last night!!!

                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                    1. flourgirl Oct 3, 2013 12:21 AM

                                                                                                      I don't this as being either particularly "anti-gay" OR sexist.

                                                                                                      But at any rate, they are entitled to their beliefs, just as you are entitled to yours. If you don't want to buy their products, don't. I can assure you, I will continue to do so.

                                                                                                      12 Replies
                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                      1. re: flourgirl
                                                                                                        c oliver Oct 3, 2013 12:32 AM

                                                                                                        And you are also, of course, entitled to your opinions. It's just that I "put my money where my mouth is." When a company publicly espouses a viewpoint that is strongly against what I believe and practice, then I don't support them. It's as easy and simple as that.

                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                          flourgirl Oct 4, 2013 12:44 AM

                                                                                                          Good for you. I do the same, and that just isn't the case for me here.

                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                        2. re: flourgirl
                                                                                                          linguafood Oct 3, 2013 12:43 AM

                                                                                                          Well, isn't it wonderful that *all* of us get to make a stand in this instance.

                                                                                                          3
                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                            hill food Oct 3, 2013 07:54 AM

                                                                                                            lf - it does make one pause and realize the luxury of choice even some in a lower income bracket such as myself has (ya ever REALLY looked at that pasta aisle? I did a temp gig doing overnight stocking at a supermarket earlier this year. I had no idea.)

                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                            1. re: hill food
                                                                                                              linguafood Oct 3, 2013 08:00 AM

                                                                                                              I have pasta once in a full moon, so I'm not super-hip to the current prices, but I can't imagine it being crazy expensive, especially the lower quality brands (like Barilla hahaha).

                                                                                                              Pasta's a staple for lower income people, after all.

                                                                                                              But yes, we sure are lucky to have the luxury to make these choices based on such frivolous things as values. The majority of people does not.

                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                              1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                Fowler Oct 3, 2013 09:33 AM

                                                                                                                "ya ever REALLY looked at that pasta aisle?"

                                                                                                                The prices vary significantly where I live. The grocery store brand is a little over a buck for a pound. The fancy stuff from Italy that comes in pretty colors and interesting shapes is upwards of $10 for a 1 pound bag. You won't find any of those $10 bags in my cart!

                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler
                                                                                                                  hill food Oct 3, 2013 10:13 AM

                                                                                                                  yeah but my point was just how MANY brands pack that aisle and all the varieties (I mean c'mon, as in a pinch, linguine will stand in for spaghetti etc)

                                                                                                                  yeesh I've tried to block that out of my head, yet I think I can still name most of the brands and the cuts.

                                                                                                                  and yes at $10/lb - then I'm buying fresh artisanal stuff made by a blind woman kept in an attic fed on bittersweet memories, dust and tears. not dried.

                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                  1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                    Fowler Oct 3, 2013 10:42 AM

                                                                                                                    Yes. Many brands, varieties and a wide range of prices.

                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                              2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                flourgirl Oct 4, 2013 12:49 AM

                                                                                                                Really? What does this even mean?

                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                1. re: flourgirl
                                                                                                                  linguafood Oct 4, 2013 01:27 AM

                                                                                                                  "But at any rate, they are entitled to their beliefs, just as you are entitled to yours. If you don't want to buy their products, don't. I can assure you, I will continue to do so."

                                                                                                                  I don't know, what did you mean by your post?

                                                                                                                  I understood it to mean that you will continue to buy Barilla pasta. Did I miss something essential here?

                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                              3. re: flourgirl
                                                                                                                chowser Oct 3, 2013 01:22 AM

                                                                                                                If he had made the comment that traditional marriage was between the same race man and woman, would you think it was racist? The argument, as mentioned above, has been made in the fairly recent past.

                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                  c oliver Oct 3, 2013 01:40 AM

                                                                                                                  And is still being made in certain "churches" in the US.

                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                              4. HillJ Sep 30, 2013 11:57 PM

                                                                                                                I printed out this entire thread two days ago and used it as part of my cookbook club the other night. We made four different types of homemade pasta (mushroom ravioli, sheet lasagna, angel hair and beet spaghetti) and celebrated healthy discussion and passionate debate over a delicious meal. Because it still matters to old birds like us.

                                                                                                                Tyou.

                                                                                                                J

                                                                                                                3
                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                1. lafouchow Sep 30, 2013 01:51 AM

                                                                                                                  The statement is also sexist. Maybe it's beneath the Italiano husbands to throw dried pasta in a pot of boing water?

                                                                                                                  16 Replies
                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                  1. re: lafouchow
                                                                                                                    y
                                                                                                                    youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 05:00 AM

                                                                                                                    A survey regarding a woman's "place"

                                                                                                                    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idU...

                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                      Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 05:12 AM

                                                                                                                      To be fair, the list of countries are still rather progressive. Countries such as France, German, US are included, but countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, are not.

                                                                                                                      In addition, I also think translation may be an issue in these polls. Should a woman's place be at home? Can totally mean different thing to two persons, especially when the languages are different.

                                                                                                                      The Chinese response was 34% yes, 66% No, while the Mexico response was 9% Yes, and 91% No. Yet, women make up about 45% of the workforce in either country. China: 46%, Mexico: 44%.

                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                        y
                                                                                                                        youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 05:36 AM

                                                                                                                        I think they used that frame as a blanket term. I'd like to believe that the pollsters knew better than to just translate that exact phrase into whatever language and pose the question that way.

                                                                                                                        And reality is that women make up half a population and often do need to work. It doesn't mean that that's not what they believe, though.

                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                        1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                          Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 05:45 AM

                                                                                                                          Well, some countries more than others. As you know, both China and India are uprising countries in economic strength. Yet the % of women workforce are very different. See the first table.

                                                                                                                          http://www.gallup.com/poll/158501/chi...

                                                                                                                          Chinese women have a 70% participation rate (men 83%), while Indian women have a 25% (men 80%). So it is close to a 1:1 ratio in China, but a 1:3 ratio in India.

                                                                                                                          I think the poll you cited is accurate. I just won't take it too far. For example, I would not say the Japanese women have less right than a Polish women because 48% of Japanese responded that a woman's place is at home, while Poland only has 18%.

                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                            y
                                                                                                                            youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 05:51 AM

                                                                                                                            That is just a survey on beliefs. Similarly, I happen to know of several men who prefer their wives to stay at home, but they work out of necessity.

                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                              r
                                                                                                                              ratgirlagogo Oct 2, 2013 11:44 AM

                                                                                                                              I would prefer to stay at home, but I work out of necessity. Same for Mr. Rat.

                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                              1. re: ratgirlagogo
                                                                                                                                y
                                                                                                                                youareabunny Oct 2, 2013 03:41 PM

                                                                                                                                I'm guessing you have children? Or a huge house/yard in need of upkeep? ;)

                                                                                                                                I know a few men to say things like -
                                                                                                                                "In my family, men are the ones to make the decisions"

                                                                                                                                In response to "my husband can rest a little easier, even enjoy a little, because I contribute"
                                                                                                                                *laughs* "And he admits to that?"

                                                                                                                                Saw an interview of a very religious man who did not allow his wife or daughters to work. I can't find the clip but he said something about "not wanting [his] wife or daughters to be commanded by another man."

                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                  r
                                                                                                                                  ratgirlagogo Oct 3, 2013 04:24 AM

                                                                                                                                  "I'm guessing you have children? Or a huge house/yard in need of upkeep? ;)"

                                                                                                                                  Neither actually, but Mr Rat and I both do a number of things that we love that we can't support ourselves by doing. While we both enjoy our paid jobs more than most, we'd both prefer independent wealth. Wouldn't everyone?

                                                                                                                                  As far as that goes we'd both love even a small house and yard instead of our apartment.

                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                    2. re: lafouchow
                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 2, 2013 02:52 PM

                                                                                                                      Yep. I found that part almost as disturbing - that women are "crucial in this". I guess that means women, at least in traditional families are the ones who are supposed to be doing all the cooking? I don't know, my father made pasta and meat sauce almost every Monday night of my life. He was also a trader on Wall Street and the one who primarily supported our family financially. I wonder, though, since he did a lot of the cooking if this Barilla guy would look down on him, or even consider him "not crucial" when it comes to cooking and food shopping (which, by the way, he also did and still does - I am not sure my mother has ever gone food shopping in her 67 years).

                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                        y
                                                                                                                        youareabunny Oct 2, 2013 03:32 PM

                                                                                                                        Reminds me of a scene from the one season show "flash forward."

                                                                                                                        Set in japan, she was top in her class and hired by one of the biggest firms. She finally gets called into a meeting with the big wigs, only to be led directly to the tea cart. "The men need their tea and you're the only woman in the building."

                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                        1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                          EarlyBird Oct 3, 2013 12:11 AM

                                                                                                                          I think he was saying that women are crucial to traditional woman-man families. Seems fairly obvious to me.

                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                          1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                            c oliver Oct 3, 2013 12:15 AM

                                                                                                                            I interpreted his comment as there really isn't a traditional family without a woman. After all, who's going to do the cooking and therefore probably buying the pasta?

                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                              EarlyBird Oct 3, 2013 12:20 AM

                                                                                                                              I get it. I didn't read it as a woman's place is in the kitchen. I read it as a woman - and a man, and children from the two - is part of the definition of a "traditional" family.

                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                              1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 08:01 AM

                                                                                                                                You got it. He defined his idea of "traditional family" and that the woman's role in such a family is to be the one in charge of food shopping and cooking - that is why the woman is so crucial to his marketing and his business.

                                                                                                                                As I mentioned earlier, I am a stay-at-home Mom (after a lengthy career working in HR in Fortune 50 companies), and I take great pride in being in charge of my household. I do consider cooking part of my job, and it is one of the parts that I genuinely enjoy. I love preparing and serving meals to my hard-working husband and our son. We are exactly the family Barilla was referring to and I have no problem being representative of that - I take great pride in being the "crucial woman" in our little family. HOWEVER, I find it insulting and gross that someone should *expect* women to be in the role I have chosen, or that only a woman can fulfill this crucial role.

                                                                                                                                3
                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                  hill food Oct 3, 2013 10:09 AM

                                                                                                                                  ever read Betty Friedan's "Second Stage" circa 1980? her thought was the whole point of rights and freedom was about creating choices. she initially caught a lot of flak for it.

                                                                                                                                  SAHM's, SAHD's single parents, two parents (of any gender), it just all seems so pointless if the kids are safe and happy.

                                                                                                                                  3
                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                  c oliver Oct 3, 2013 08:12 AM

                                                                                                                                  HIS definition.

                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                        2. The Chowhound Team Sep 30, 2013 01:37 AM

                                                                                                                          Folks, at this point, the discussion on this thread is mostly about the discussion on this thread, and not about Barilla's CEO's remarks. That sort of meta-discussion is pretty much always considered off-topic here on Chowhound, and is especially an issue on threads like this where the conversation is already testy.

                                                                                                                          If you have anything new and different to say that is specifically about the Barilla situation (and not about your fellow hounds or how or why they have chosen to post on this thread), please go ahead and post, but otherwise, this discussion has largely run its course.

                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                          1. EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 01:17 AM

                                                                                                                            Barilla's position is archaic, out-of-step, regrettable, and thankfully dying out. But its tepid comments were hardly "hate" or "gay bashing."

                                                                                                                            On the other hand, I'm being asked by an extremely powerful political lobby to bully and punish a company for meekly stepping out of line, in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance"?

                                                                                                                            No thanks. I'll take my pasta with a nice Bolognese, hold the ironic grandstanding.

                                                                                                                            67 Replies
                                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                            1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                              Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 03:14 AM

                                                                                                                              <I'm being asked by an extremely powerful political lobby>

                                                                                                                              ??? Are you working as a political consultant or do you mean we are all being asked to boycott?

                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                chowser Sep 30, 2013 03:20 AM

                                                                                                                                I wonder if the lobby is Barilla. After all, the president did say if people didn't agree w/ him, they should stop buying the product. So people agreed and are doing as he suggests.

                                                                                                                                3
                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                  EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:13 AM

                                                                                                                                  I'm being asked to boycott a company, in essence run it out of town/marketplace, because they expressed a view that I disagree with. All, mind you, in the name of diversity" and "tolerance."

                                                                                                                                  The comments of this pasta maker are not going to make or break gay rights, nor were they a call to do gay people harm. Something is overwrought in all of this, and it feels like bullying, much like the Chik-Fil-A boycott did.

                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                  1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                    linguafood Sep 30, 2013 05:16 AM

                                                                                                                                    Who asked you personally to do anything? Did you get a rob-o-call from this mysterious "extremely powerful lobby" to which you referred earlier, asking you to boycott Barilla?

                                                                                                                                    Nobody is being bullied. Consumers are making their own choices about which products to buy, based on their own moral values.

                                                                                                                                    Several posters have expressed their "now more than ever" opinion by saying they will buy *more* Barilla. Nobody's bullying them into doing that, either.

                                                                                                                                    Free market & free speech and all. I always thought that was a huge deal in the US.

                                                                                                                                    4
                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                    1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                      EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:40 AM

                                                                                                                                      Hey, to each his own in the market place.

                                                                                                                                      But to answer your question, Barilla is being bullied and being equated not with just wrong-headed ideas, but "hate(!)" Way overwrought, and it shuts down discussion.

                                                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                        EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:43 AM

                                                                                                                                        By the way, what's "mysterious" about the fact of an extremely powerful gay lobby? You deny one exists? The lobby itself doesn't deny it. How strange.

                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                          y
                                                                                                                                          youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 05:46 AM

                                                                                                                                          A gay lobby trying to push for gay supremacy?

                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                          1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                            EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:47 AM

                                                                                                                                            No, I think it's the Pasta Cabal that is trying to stamp out joy and love among gay people. Does that help?

                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                          2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                            chowser Sep 30, 2013 05:48 AM

                                                                                                                                            How powerful can a lobby be if it can't even get equal rights for its members? Or, maybe it's powerful because it has right on its side and there are enough people who care to take a stand against discrimination? Thankfully, that's a growing "lobby."

                                                                                                                                            8
                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                            1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                              EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 06:14 AM

                                                                                                                                              I consider myself part of that lobby, in as much as I share their goals of full human rights for gay people, and am particularly interested in gay marriage rights. But it's a powerful lobby which can get this kind of media attention and collective action.

                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                        2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                          Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 05:28 AM

                                                                                                                                          I see. I think it is rather passionate thing for many people. I also disagree with Barilla's President view, but I am not entirely sure if we are being consistent to boycot this company because of one person's view. Are we boycotting because of his view?

                                                                                                                                          I think that is a legit position, but is it consistent? I think many presidents from other companies (around the world) probably disagree with gay marriage. Just think of most of the Asian companies, like Toyota, Honda, Samsung, Sony, Nintendo....etc. I am not saying that they are, but we know this country (USA) is close to a 50/40 split with 10% undecided, and I wouldn't be surprised that the % of disagreement is higher in many other countries.

                                                                                                                                          I mean. How do you know the owners of your favor Indian restaurant or Thai restaurant or Afghan restaurant are not against gay marriage?

                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                            C. Hamster Sep 30, 2013 05:35 AM

                                                                                                                                            But here he is purportedly speaking on the company's behalf.

                                                                                                                                            ""For us, the 'sacral family' remains one of the company’s core values. Our family is a traditional family."

                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                            1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                              Ruth Lafler Sep 30, 2013 11:10 AM

                                                                                                                                              Barilla is a family-owned company, so when Mr. Barilla speaks, he's speaking for the company, not just himself. In addition, he was talking about the *company policy* vis a vis portraying gay families in their advertising, not just his own personal views.

                                                                                                                                              5
                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                            2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                              chowser Sep 30, 2013 05:52 AM

                                                                                                                                              "I mean. How do you know the owners of your favor Indian restaurant or Thai restaurant or Afghan restaurant are not against gay marriage?"

                                                                                                                                              There is a likelihood that they might be against his marriage. So if the owner publicly came out against interracial marriage, the question is whether he'd boycott, or have no problems with it and think a boycott was wrong.

                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                              1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 06:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                < So if the owner publicly came out against interracial marriage, the question is whether he'd boycott, or have no problems with it and think a boycott was wrong.>

                                                                                                                                                I do have a question, and this is a rather academic one. I am not trying to start a major debate, and maybe this is not the right time (considering people are all heated), but I will try anyway.

                                                                                                                                                I know restaurant owners who are publicly for and privately against certain marriage -- for example, interracial marriage. What do I mean by that? I know a few store owners who told me that they have no problem with interracial marriage couples, but they would not want to see their children marrying someone outside of their racial background. I also know many restaurant owners who told me that (yes, I am "lucky" that people talk to me all the time and confess their views to me.... no idea why). They told me that they have no problem with gay marriage and gay couples should able to do what they like, but they would be very upset if their children turn out to be gay.

                                                                                                                                                So how do we deal with people like that?

                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                  linguafood Sep 30, 2013 06:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                  We hope that they will love their children just the way they are, even >gasp< if they turn out gay. It's a process, for sure.

                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                    chowser Sep 30, 2013 07:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                    I discuss it with them if possible. I have racist relatives. You can't pick your relatives but I did create some waves speaking back to the older generation. But, you know, what, some eventually listened. Discrimination will never go away. I'll bet there are some Star belly sneetches who still look down on those w/out.;-)

                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                      Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 08:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                      <I have racist relatives.>

                                                                                                                                                      I am not sure if it is racist. It is definitely race-based, but not sure if it is really racist. Maybe it is, maybe it is not. Beside the whole black and white thing, I can tell you that I know a lot of Jewish parents have major programs of their kids dating German, and I know some Chinese have strong objection against dating Japanese. Needless to say, religion is a big one too. I won't go into it, but I think you know exactly what those are.

                                                                                                                                                      I mean, I have also heard of people who strongly prefer their children marry the same religion, or the same political party. I don't mean mildly prefer. I mean very strongly prefer. As in, they will get really pissed at the sons/daughters if they want to marry a Republican/Democrat (whichever is the opposite). I mean if you can "discriminate" marriage based on religion, political party, professional, why not ethnic background? I guess the only difference is that people don't get to chose their races, but the basis is the same.

                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                      d
                                                                                                                                                      DGresh Sep 30, 2013 07:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Hey my (80+ year old) father asked me "wouldn't you be upset if (my 20 year old daughter) married a black man?" He really didn't get that I had no problem with that. I have less issue with what people feel in their private, family, lives, than what they vote on, or want to impose on society in general. I mean, families can *want* all sorts of crazy things, that have nothing to do with laws.

                                                                                                                                                      3
                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                        Ruth Lafler Sep 30, 2013 11:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                        I think (a) most parents say that until it really happens, and (b) most parents want what's best for their children.

                                                                                                                                                        I don't think it makes a person a bad person to express the fact that they would prefer that their children have traditional lives, that they not have to deal with all of the adversity that comes from being gay (or part of any other discriminated against group) or being in an interracial marriage, or that they would be sad at the thought that some of the dreams they had for their child might not come true.

                                                                                                                                                        But mostly, I do think people have a right to their opinions, as long as they don't treat people differently or advocate treating people differently.

                                                                                                                                                        Now, if that person said their child came out to them and they kicked them out of the house, or sent them to anti-gay therapy, or if they disowned them for marrying a person of another race, then I would want to have nothing to do with that person.

                                                                                                                                                        5
                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                          C. Hamster Sep 30, 2013 11:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                          I'm both gay and interracially "married." My partner is Korean-American

                                                                                                                                                          My mother gets along much better with my partner than with me.

                                                                                                                                                          Despite the fact that I've been out and successful in life and business for many years I'm sure she still wishes I were straight.

                                                                                                                                                          Because that outdated mentality is just hardwired into people. It drives me nuts. And often angers me.

                                                                                                                                                          She still can't understand why my partner's family isn't in the dry cleaning business.

                                                                                                                                                          Grrrrr... But she is serious and not sarcastic .

                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                          1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                            Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 12:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                            <She still can't understand why my partner's family isn't in the dry cleaning business.>

                                                                                                                                                            I am seriously not getting this. What does dry cleaning has to do with being gay? I have never even heard of this steretyping. I can see the mafia may have something to do with dry cleaning.

                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                              C. Hamster Sep 30, 2013 12:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                              It's about being Korean. Her dry cleaner is Korean, which is common, so she over assumed ...

                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                            2. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                              hill food Sep 30, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                              C - that made me laugh!
                                                                                                                                                              "My mother gets along much better with my partner than with me. "

                                                                                                                                                              classic.

                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                jrvedivici Sep 30, 2013 10:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                "Because that outdated mentality is just hardwired into people. It drives me nuts. And often angers me."

                                                                                                                                                                This comment kind of stands out to me, so are you saying your mother shares a similar type of mentality as Barilla?

                                                                                                                                                                (If I'm wrong I'm sorry, I'm not trying to skew how you are representing your mothers mentality, the way it reads it seems like there is a parallel there I'm looking for you to confirm)

                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                  JonParker Sep 30, 2013 11:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  I'm a straight guy who has largely ended up with people sharing a skin tone with myself. It wasn't planned that way, that's just how it worked out.

                                                                                                                                                                  However, my son is gay. The one partner that I ended up actually married to is largely Native American. Again, not planned, just happened.

                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                    hill food Oct 1, 2013 10:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    funny how the world works isn't it? it's all about grace and balance and really in some ways calls forth surfing analogies.

                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                  Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 11:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  <I think (a) most parents say that until it really happens, and (b) most parents want what's best for their children.>

                                                                                                                                                                  I agree on both. And when it does happen, they act differently.

                                                                                                                                                                  <But mostly, I do think people have a right to their opinions, as long as they don't treat people differently or advocate treating people differently.>

                                                                                                                                                                  But won't your children be "people"?

                                                                                                                                                                  <if they disowned them for marrying a person of another race>

                                                                                                                                                                  That I do know for sure. Actually, I don't know about the race one, but I do know about the people who maried outside of their caste, and their parents stop talking to them. (Indian caste).

                                                                                                                                                                  Just look at how many Indians really are willing to marry outside of their caste. Now, tell me, considering that, how many of them really will have no objection to gay marriage -- consider they have hell of a problem people who marry within their own race and own religion ....etc, but different caste.

                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                    ttoommyy Sep 30, 2013 08:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    "I don't think it makes a person a bad person to express the fact that they would prefer that their children have traditional lives..."

                                                                                                                                                                    What does "traditional" even mean these days? Seriously. I am hard pressed to find anyone in my life who fits that "Ozzie and Harriet" mold anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                    2
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                    Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 04:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I don't have an answer. I just wanted to say that I think *this* is one of the most difficult situations to deal with - in discussing gay or interracial marriage. It is a doosie.

                                                                                                                                                                    I mentioned in another comment that I don't doubt that the owners of at least a few of my favorite small "mom & pop" local restaurants have political or social views that would make me want to spit my food out. But, since they do not say these things publicly (like Mr. Barilla or the guy who runs Chik-Fil-A) or put notes on their menus (or chalkboards) proclaiming their distaste for gay marriage, I will never know and I can continue eating really good food. I don't plan on polling restaurateurs any time soon. It kind of sucks for you that people like to confide these things in you!

                                                                                                                                                                    Like I said, I don't really have an answer to your question. Frankly, my parents, in their late 60s, are quite liberal and support gay marriage and interracial marriage. However, I can't say they would not have been upset had I brought home a black man to marry. They are good, fair-minded people, my parents, but I don't know that they would have been thrilled to have a black (or Asian or Latino) son-in-law. They easily accepted that both my sister and I decided to enter into inter-faith marriages. No matter how much one supports the concepts, it can be such a tricky thing for a lot of people when it is personal. I am of a younger generation - even at 38 years old - and if my 3 1/2 year old decides to marry a man or a black or Asian or Latina woman, I would not have a problem with it, but I think it partly a cultural/generational thing.

                                                                                                                                                                    I am going to have to give this some thought....how I would react to a business owner who expressed feelings as you described. It may go against all my liberal tendencies and belief in equal rights for all, but I must admit that I am leaning towards not boycotting a favorite restaurant if they had told me that they support interracial marriage but would prefer their own children to marry within their race. Maybe I am a hypocrite. Now, if they restaurant owners went on to say that they would DISOWN their children for marrying outside of their race, I don't think I could stomach the food there.

                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                3. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                  hill food Sep 30, 2013 09:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  CK - uhh Thai? I'd sub in a different examplar there. every Thai person I've ever met has been about as easy-going in this regard. heck I had an assistant once who came to work dressed sort of like Lt. Uhuru from old Star Trek. nice guy and certainly made grumpy Monday AM staff meetings that much more amusing.

                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                    Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 11:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    <CK - uhh Thai? I'd sub in a different examplar there. >

                                                                                                                                                                    So we are all stereotyping then. :P NO, I don't want Star Trek, but I watch Star Wars. :)

                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                      hill food Sep 30, 2013 03:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      I wasn't meaning that in any way, just that in my limited experience things seem a bit looser in Thailand than they are in MANY other countries that might have been cited. not that anybody's path through life is easy.

                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                        Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 03:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        No, no. I was just teasing you. Please don't take it too seriously.

                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                          hill food Oct 1, 2013 10:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          while I take tasks seriously, I hope all realize my comments here or in real-life are very rarely serious. there's always room for some fun. one of my very favorite comments from a boss was: she shook her head and muttered "oh God you are SO full of it." and walked away. she liked me.

                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                4. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                  C. Hamster Sep 30, 2013 05:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  "nor were they a call to do gay people harm"

                                                                                                                                                                  Barring gays and lebians from adopting children sounds like harm to me.

                                                                                                                                                                  Companies that choose to express political and social viewpoints have to live with the consequences of that choice.

                                                                                                                                                                  He could have kept his mouth shut and continued not to feature homosexuals in his ads.

                                                                                                                                                                  But no. Instead he chose to open his mouth and broadcast Barilla's narrowmindedness to the media, inviting those that didn't like Barilla's viewpoint to take their business elsewhere. And people are taking him up on that.

                                                                                                                                                                  6
                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                    greygarious Sep 30, 2013 06:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    If ever someone should have adhered to the concept of "don't ask, don't tell", it's Signore Barilla. It's never a good idea for a business to express opinions that will alienate any part of its customer base.

                                                                                                                                                                    5
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                    j
                                                                                                                                                                    Jerseygirl111 Sep 30, 2013 01:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    I agree with you Earlybird. It is bullying in an effort to bring about change. However that is historically one of the ways change was brought about in a society by bullying and public shaming. It lets the perpetrators (and all others) know that behavior is now socially unacceptable. Nowadays, I think it allows people to feel they have a voice and this is a way it can be heard.

                                                                                                                                                                    Do I still think that man is a bigot? Yes.

                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                      y
                                                                                                                                                                      youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 03:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      "I want people to enjoy my pasta."

                                                                                                                                                                      Done. Single, married, divorced, gay, straight, alien... Don't matter. Just People. Should've been like that.

                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                        Fowler Oct 1, 2013 12:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        I completely respect your opinion and reasoning to not purchase Barilla food in the future, but why would you throw away their food when people that cannot afford to be sanctimonious would have benefited from the donation of the Barilla you purchased to their food bank or shelter?

                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Fowler
                                                                                                                                                                          c oliver Oct 1, 2013 12:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          You know, that has crossed my mind. I'm going to retrieve it (it's not in the garbage yet) and give it to some one. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                            f
                                                                                                                                                                            fourunder Oct 1, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            What many fail to realize is that every ounce of product that has left the production factory before the controversy ...has already realized sales and profits to the company. Throwing the pasta away or returning it has no impact on the sales already made to the distributors who sell the product to the stores/wholesalers, who in turn sell it to the other wholesalers and retailers.who distribute it to the commercial businesses and consumer markets.

                                                                                                                                                                            Returning items or throwing them out only hurts others...not the parent company

                                                                                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: fourunder
                                                                                                                                                                              y
                                                                                                                                                                              youareabunny Oct 1, 2013 03:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              There is a certain amount of loss that can be claimed of the vendor.

                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: fourunder
                                                                                                                                                                                C. Hamster Oct 1, 2013 09:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                I wouldn't underestimate the message being sent by the large numbers of people emptying their pantries of Barilla products.

                                                                                                                                                                                I initially threw mine out but reclaimed them and dropped them off at a homeless shelter. Many of my friends have done the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                Plus I didn't want that jackass' stuff in my house, period.

                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Oct 1, 2013 02:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                Funny, after all this broohaha I checked our pantry and discovered, among many (unopened) DeCecco boxes, an open Barilla spaghetti box.

                                                                                                                                                                                Since we barely ever eat pasta, I have no idea whether I will throw it out or eat it. At this point, I already paid for it, so I see no reason to put it in the trash. That's not hurting anyone, and I hate throwing out food.

                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                      chowser Sep 30, 2013 03:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      "On the other hand, I'm being asked by an extremely powerful political lobby to bully and punish a company for meekly stepping out of line, in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance"?"

                                                                                                                                                                      Would you feel the same way about the NAACP taking a stance against a company that didn't believe in equal rights for all people, regardless of color? Suppose a company came out and said they believed only in marriage for white people. Would you think a protest against that would be bullying against the meek company? Speaking out against discrimination is never a bad thing, imo. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                      5
                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                                        EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        Funny you bring that up, given that I am a white man married to a black woman.

                                                                                                                                                                        If the president of a company which made...bread...came out with a mild statement of distaste for my marriage, when I enjoy full rights to that marriage, and the support of my fellow citizens in my marriage, yes, I would continue to buy that bread if I liked it.

                                                                                                                                                                        Of course, the situation is not nearly as settled for gay couples. I just don't think that the backwards views Barilla expressed are "hateful" as they have been described on this thread. He needs to be educated through conversation and exposure to loving, committed gay couples, not bludgeoned into submission. The latter does nothing to truly change views and in fact may backfire.

                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                          chowser Sep 30, 2013 05:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          Take your situation back 60 years when you would have had to search for a state to get married and dealt w/ hateful slurs when you and your wife were together in public. Potential for violence when you leave your house. Double takes and shudders when you kiss. Then a public person comes out against you and your wife's love, that it's not the as good as two white people in love and you shouldn't be allowed to have children. Does that seem hateful? Ideally, education would help if the person were open minded and intelligent. And, sometimes a boycott does help. In fact, that is what the founder has advocated. People who don't agree w/ him should not buy his product. I will give my money to a company whose views aren't discriminatory. It's capitalism at its best. He has his right to his views; I have the right/obligation not to support it.

                                                                                                                                                                          8
                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                                            EarlyBird Sep 30, 2013 05:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            Well said, and I get your point. Like I stated, the situation with gay couples is not nearly as settled, but the movement sure has the wind at its back. Let's hope in another generation gay spouses are as unremarkable as my wife and me.

                                                                                                                                                                            I guess I just find it a bit unseemly seeing a bunch of people falling all over themselves to prove just how very, very progressive they are by saying, "there's a bigot!" and "there's another one!" and patting themselves on the back for it. Switching from Barilla to DeCecco is hardly storming the barricades, you know?

                                                                                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                              chowser Sep 30, 2013 05:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Definitely. I think it's that people like to feel less powerless against some things and this is one way to take a stance. Not beng gay, I find it's a way to show support for the gay community and what they have to face. It's more symbolic.

                                                                                                                                                                              3
                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Sep 30, 2013 06:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Well, given that this is a food board, you have no idea how we try to promote progress in other parts of our lives.

                                                                                                                                                                                We're simply discussing a news story about a food producer here. If every single person here elaborated on in which many other ways they are "storming the barricades" --- well, we'd be so off-topic the thread would be shut down.

                                                                                                                                                                                And patting ourselves on the back? Because we happen to express our disdain about this man's remarks? Mmmmmmkay.

                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                  c
                                                                                                                                                                                  calumin Oct 1, 2013 12:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  EarlyBird the one thing I don't quite get in your position is the idea that someone who doesn't buy Barilla pasta is some kind of self-congratulatory, fake progressive.

                                                                                                                                                                                  If I were gay, after hearing the chairman's comments in which he specifically characterized his company culture as pro-traditional family, to the exclusion of gay family values -- I could see not wanting to buy that pasta anymore. The company is not selling to that group of people and he's made it clear in the full quote. I don't see anything fake in taking that money somewhere else -- the chairman essentially invited that group of people to do so.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't think spending money elsewhere is an attempt to bully someone into submission -- it is just about spending your dollars where they are appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                  3
                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                    hill food Oct 1, 2013 02:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    I appreciate an openly expressed opinion. let's one know where one stands.

                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                      JAB Oct 1, 2013 11:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      One need not be gay ...

                                                                                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                        d
                                                                                                                                                                                        donovt Oct 2, 2013 05:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        I think they meant that one need not be gay in order to be upset and stop buying barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: donovt
                                                                                                                                                                                          PrinceZuko Oct 2, 2013 06:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for correcting me. Just saw it was a response to calumin's comment on boycotting if you're gay. Friendly fire. Oops.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: PrinceZuko
                                                                                                                                                                                            d
                                                                                                                                                                                            donovt Oct 2, 2013 06:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            No problem. I had the same initial reaction until I read the post they were replying to.

                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: PrinceZuko
                                                                                                                                                                                              linguafood Oct 2, 2013 07:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ditto on the oops. My bad :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                C. Hamster Oct 2, 2013 08:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                This thread is super confusing!

                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                          EarlyBird Oct 2, 2013 12:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          It's not that I see people as "fake progressives," but the excessive outrage seems a bit put-on. I'm not sure if Barilla's comments, however wrong-spirited, condemn him to the status of irredeemable bigot.

                                                                                                                                                                                          It's not always Stonewall. The gay human rights movement (which is how I see it, not set asides for "gays") has brought society a very long way, thank God. People of good faith don't need to fall over themselves to prove they're on the side of the angels.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                            c
                                                                                                                                                                                            calumin Oct 2, 2013 07:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            EarlyBird -- I guess I'm still not seeing it. Why are you considerably more forgiving of a person who makes comments you admit are wrong-spirited, out-of-step, and regrettable than you are of someone who reacts to those comments by deciding to spend their money elsewhere? Especially when that person is the target of those wrong-spirited comments!

                                                                                                                                                                                            Of course you have a right to think however you like. I just don't actually understand the logic.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                              EarlyBird Oct 2, 2013 11:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              It's not the choice to stop buying the company's products I find problematic. It's the over the top rhetoric and moral grandstanding I find off-putting. Barilla is wrong on gay marriage. But his comments were not beyond the pale, "hate speech" or "gay bashing." He is not the devil.

                                                                                                                                                                                              It's about balance and proper response. Over-reaction to such tepid expressions as Barilla's actually offends the very values of tolerance and diversity being promoted.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                t
                                                                                                                                                                                                thimes Oct 2, 2013 11:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Being marginalized passive aggressively deserves a strong response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                It is offensive to constantly be told that "you are over-reacting" - I don't find people's reactions strong enough most of the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd tell you why I feel this way but apparently those opinions get my posts deleted (even though I'm not using any bad language, calling anyone names, or anything like that - just giving some perspective on why the gay community is sick of being complacent to this stuff).

                                                                                                                                                                                                7
                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                  c
                                                                                                                                                                                                  calumin Oct 3, 2013 11:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I really don't get it. It sounds like right vs wrong isn't that important to you (you give an essentially free pass to the statements you consider wrong), but you're really concerned about the tone of the position that you have said is "right."

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Maybe it all comes down to familiarity. You've actually accused people who object to those words as offending the values of tolerance and diversity. That sounds like over the top rhetoric to me. Maybe you just don't identify with these people?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  There's no other way I can see why people choose to apologize for and defend people who are wrong and accuse those who they offend of sensationalism for pointing it out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                m
                                                                                                                                                                                                marblebag Oct 3, 2013 04:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                It's weird to see that you are aware of the interracial bigotry of the past but don't see the current anti-gay bigotry to be "as righteous".

                                                                                                                                                                                                Was there excessive outrage when you could not marry the person you love? Hell yes. Were they put on? Ask your wife's ancestors.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                      RetiredChef Oct 4, 2013 05:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      After reading a lot of these comments it was refreshing to see yours. Too many times emotions take over and our brain shuts off. Thank you for keeping this logical and non-emotive.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: RetiredChef
                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Oct 14, 2013 01:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry, what exactly does *logic* have to do with this issue?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                    3. l
                                                                                                                                                                                      lagatta Sep 29, 2013 11:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Canada has recognized same-sex marriage since 2005; fourth country in the world and first outside Europe. (Here in Québec, and in other jurisdictions, it had been recognized before that).

                                                                                                                                                                                      Just want to point out that gay and lesbian visitors are more than welcome here in Montréal, whether for a wedding ceremony or simply a foodie visit. And there is an array of pasta brands to choose from, as well as many house-made varieties. Benvenuti, amici ed amiche! Bienvenue!

                                                                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      3
                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                        hill food Sep 30, 2013 09:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        gay or straight or whatever, I WOULD like to visit Quebec someday. y'all sound tres bien.

                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                          LotusRapper Sep 30, 2013 11:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          Almost the entire country now ......

                                                                                                                                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex...

                                                                                                                                                                                          Montreal (and Quebec City) is GREAT, like a flavorful slice of Europe, without having to fly across the big pond. I'm in Vancouver but have only been to MTL 5 times :-/

                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LotusRapper
                                                                                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Oct 1, 2013 04:10 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, you're about as far away as across the pond, in the other direction. And by the BIG pond! Vancouver is also very LGBT friendly (a gay cousin moved there to flee his small-town Catholic family, much as he loves them - he returned to tend to his dying parents). And what is more to the point of this website, it has GREAT food, in particular Asian: I mean both East and South Asian, and many Southeast Asian cuisines as well. And splendid fish and seafood.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Alas, I've only been to Vancouver once, as my long-haul travels take me to Europe for both work and FAF (friends and family) reasons.

                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                              hill food Oct 1, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              one of these days, oh one of these days, I will have to make a trek across Canada, I'd like to take the train, but I think I'd have to quit smoking first and airplanes would make it too easy to skip places like Banff or Winnipeg.

                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                      2. m
                                                                                                                                                                                        madeliner Sep 29, 2013 10:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Shouldn't tolerance work both ways?

                                                                                                                                                                                        26 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: madeliner
                                                                                                                                                                                          r
                                                                                                                                                                                          rrems Sep 29, 2013 11:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          How? Are you saying we should tolerate bigotry? Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

                                                                                                                                                                                          5
                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: rrems
                                                                                                                                                                                            Ruth Lafler Sep 30, 2013 11:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Ooh, snap! When people complain about intolerance they are being intolerant. I bet no one has ever said that before, except for a dozen people on this discussion alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Just how much are we supposed to tolerate the opinions people have a "right" to? Is it intolerant to condemn the Westboro Baptist church for protesting the funerals of soldiers? NAMBLA for promoting pedophilia? They're just expressing their opinions, so criticizing them would be intolerant, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                            7
                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                              j
                                                                                                                                                                                              Jerseygirl111 Sep 30, 2013 01:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              Moral turpitude. At some point the prevailing opinion in society will turn one way or the other. I'd say the decision on NAMBLA is pretty much decided already, while the attitude on homosexuality in this country is still fluid.

                                                                                                                                                                                              In America, everyone is free to express themselves, even those with whom we disagree.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                m
                                                                                                                                                                                                marblebag Oct 3, 2013 02:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                No one is denying Barilla's "right" to freely express themself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 02:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes. But when there are ten companies (at least) which produce boxes of dried pasta, we can pick the one who has not expressed opinions vastly different from our own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think there may be a bit of confusion here. I don't believe most people think that Barilla is not entitled to their political or social positions. However, ANY COMPANY that decides to *publicly air their opinions on these sensitive matters* needs to know that consumers who DO CARE about these issues will easily move on the the next company selling the same product. It is just that simple.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  *And while the attitude on homosexuality in this country may still be fluid...it is most definitely NOT fluid among a large contingent of consumers - which is why companies need to be careful with what they say, unless they want to turn that large contingent away from their product(s)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  3
                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                  EarlyBird Oct 3, 2013 04:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  No, when people go insane about mildly intolerant comments, they are being intolerant. But we're proud of your efforts, Ruth. Keep impressing everyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood Oct 3, 2013 05:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm still scratching my head over how "people are going insane". For some of us, the "mildly intolerant" comments are insulting or eye-opening enough that we no longer care to buy Barilla pasta.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am having a really, really hard time understanding how choosing to boycott a product is some bat-shit crazy overreaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's not like posters are suggesting we nuke his factories.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 06:10 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well said, Linguafood. No one is suggesting we draw and quarter this guy. It is perfectly reasonable, though, to put your money somewhere that has not made it clear that their political or social opinions are totally opposite to your own. It is boxed pasta - many brands to choose from. The first one that tells me they really don't give a crap about gay people and don't consider gay people "families" is the first one checked off of my list - and I move on to Ronzoni or some other brand on sale.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      No one need worry that an angry crowd carrying torches and stakes is going to show up on this guy's doorstep. Spending our money elsewhere works well enough - and is perfectly within reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I save my bat-shit crazy for my husband anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      5
                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                        chowser Oct 3, 2013 06:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        "I save my bat-shit crazy for my husband anyway."

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hahaha, I was finished responding to this thread but that was the best laugh I've had all day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood Oct 3, 2013 06:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's why everyone should have the right to marry whomever they want to drive crazy for life :-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                          4
                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: chowser
                                                                                                                                                                                                            hill food Oct 4, 2013 12:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            that was good - I love the term 'bat-shit crazy'

                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                                              girloftheworld Oct 4, 2013 12:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              when my mom is in a"mood" she leans a broom against the wall... and we know to be careful or she will " fly the broom"

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                            mcf Oct 3, 2013 10:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's not even that someone's opinions are different from my own that causes me to boycott businesses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I tolerate disagreement just fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's when they publicly promote discrimination and intolerance of others as policy that I stop supporting them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            4
                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 07:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Mildly intolerant" is a very subjective opinion. Much like when we discuss food - mildly spicy to one may be considered way too spicy to others. Right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I guess going "insane" must also be a subjective term. Trust me. I have personally experienced insanity - the 72 hour hold kind. Deciding to purchase another company's dried pasta is definitely not going insane. Creating an anti-Barilla FB group isn't even insane. People feel strongly about certain issues and how they choose to express their feelings is not ever insane (unless they go light this guys house on fire or something like that....that would definitely be insane).

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyway, I guess I don't understand what I have come to perceive as deep distaste for those of us who have expressed our unhappiness with these comments and our intentions to boycott Barilla. What exactly is so terrible about that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          If Barilla had stated they don't care about black people buying their pasta or not, and black people should not adopt children, and that black people do not conform to their idea of families - but if there is a black married couple with children, the mother should be the one doing the food shopping and cooking....well, would it still be "insane" to get up in arms about it? Genuinely curious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                            j
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jerseygirl111 Oct 3, 2013 10:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are you asking the posters if they think the boycott is an overreaction simply because the CEO's bigoted comments were directed towards gays rather than African Americans?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, the only issue I struggle with is tolerance towards others. If some individuals feel the need to boycott Barilla, I say Let your voice be heard. Personally, I believe it's all a fight for equal rights, whether African American, LGBT, women, or immigrants. YMMV.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 02:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes. I am. It seems that some people have expressed that they are tolerant of Barilla's statements and have called some of us out as "overreacting", while I find it unlikely that they would be similarly tolerant (or judgemental of those of us choosing to boycott Barilla) if the CEO's comments were racist - perhaps because the struggle for gay people is in its infancy compared to the struggle for African-Americans. I, however, do not see any room for acceptance of these comments regardless of what demographic they are attacking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              4
                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                hill food Oct 4, 2013 12:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Jpaula - I respect your comments, yet this is kinda an apple and orange issue (vis a vis race vs. sexuality - it's been convincingly posited there was no real idea of 'gay' before the late 19th/early 20th century, acts yes, but not identity). there are very apt analogies and what some might think to be obvious allegiances, but that's when that messy human hand comes in and it all becomes silly and needlessly complicated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 5, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hill - I equally respect your comments and I agree about the messy human hand, although i do not see it as apples an oranges, as much as, perhaps, Gala Apples and Granny Smith Apples. I prefer to not to point fingers but there have been a few commenters who have suggested, well actually, straight-up accused some of us as "falling all over ourselves" to be politically correct on the issue of gay rights - as if we are being disingenuous or acting ridiculous. Again, maybe I am naive but I cannot imagine anyone on this board saying that others are "falling all over themselves" on the issue of civil rights for black people. My goodness, if Mr. Barilla was talking about black people, I would just dare anyone on CH to accuse others of "overreacting" when we say we are going to boycott his products. I wasn't making a vague analogy, if I am being honest. I was directing the analogy at those who have made the comments I just described.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    HillJ Oct 6, 2013 12:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm still reading along and many interesting points have been raised. Many points completely off the topic of Barilla's interview have been added as comparison to the topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If this thread is pointing out anything it's that the opinion of people from all walks of life and areas of the planet are impacted by statements of this type. There's been room from the moment the thread started for all points of view. I think we all realize, there will never be full consensus on such personal views. But if I stay open to reading what others have to say I actually learn something and something I've never pondered before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So I'm going to depart this media blitz wiser. Dare I say the CEO of Barilla taught me something through his insensitivity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Something, I'll always be grateful for: free will.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hill food Oct 6, 2013 03:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jpaula - I'm not really refuting anything you've said per se, just clarifying. I feel it's apples and oranges as (well it gets complicated here) intolerance of a person's immutable identity which hurts nobody is wrong wrong and wrong, but for most black folks it's sort of difficult to 'pass' and they have to walk through the world with strength and resolve, a gay person can somewhat easily hide and die a little inside everyday and play it straight and pay the price in night-ground molars and other self-hating issues.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      yet I truly believe this is all changing for the better. it's slow. yet hopefully in this trainwreck of an economy manufacturers like Barilla will realize they can't afford to alienate even 1 customer (and all their 3000 friends who chat online)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and BTW I'm a Granny Smith or Fuji type of guy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                              c
                                                                                                                                                                                                              calumin Oct 6, 2013 12:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The thing I've learned on this thread is the way people twist the word "intolerance" to be something it is not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The comments by Barilla's chairman are intolerant because they reflect a point of view that is intolerant and fundamentally disapproving of an entire group of people regarding their lifestyle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Most of the reactions in this thread to the Barilla's chairman are not "intolerant." These comments are criticisms and expressions of desire to respond to Barilla by spending money elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Some people who are sympathetic to the Barilla chairman's comments may perceive the reaction as intolerant. Not because they actually are, but because the reaction forces the public the consider that it's not okay in society to have public views that are anti-gay. Nobody is forcing anyone to take that view, but if someone is sympathetic to anti-gay comments , then that idea could seem offensive or intolerant to them because it assaults their personal viewpoint.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              You could say that criticism is by definition "intolerant," but that's 3rd grade thinking -- the criticism is the difference of opinion. The intolerance is about the perspective which leads to the difference of opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              5
                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                HillJ Oct 6, 2013 01:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Trying to get inside the head of another person is not easy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                I wouldn't even try. The only perspective I can control is my own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  JonParker Oct 6, 2013 02:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with all of this except the three words "regarding their lifestyle."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    girloftheworld Oct 6, 2013 07:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ya- that always rubs me the wrong way "lifesyle"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you can be a homesexual male who ma makes a millon dollars a year and live a very affluant lifestyle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you can be a homesexual male who lives the lifestyle of a starving muscian who barely makes ends meet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you can be a homesexual male who stays home and rasies a kid and live the lifestyle of a stay at home parent

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a lifestyle is how you live ...not who you are inside

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      calumin Oct 6, 2013 08:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      JonParker -- that makes sense, poor word choice there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 6, 2013 05:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Oh my. Excellent. Thank you so much for explaining something so perfectly. I have tried a few times to express my feelings this way, but have failed. I think you hit the nail precisely on the head. I have to add that aside from it being "third-grade thinking", also think calling criticism of anti-gay comments just another form of intolerance is a cop-out or excuse-making; you are entitled to be sympathetic to anti-gay comments, but own it by not calling others intolerant because they disagree with a viewpoint that really should not be accepted in society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ETA: I do have to agree with JonParker in that homosexuality is not a lifestyle any more than heterosexuality is. But, that's okay, it is the sort of slip-up that even the most liberal supporter of equal human rights for gay people might make when speaking or typing quickly. I am sure (?) calumin did not mean it in an antagonistic way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. EM23 Sep 29, 2013 07:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just learned that Wasa (crispbreads) is also a Barilla brand. More of their brands here… http://www.barillagroup.com/corporate...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                lagatta Sep 29, 2013 08:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh dear, Misko, the lovely Greek orzo pasta...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Quite a bit of damage control on the site too. He, he...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  trolley Sep 29, 2013 08:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  good! why bother eating wasa when you can eat cardboard out of a dumpster?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  merylnet Sep 29, 2013 07:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I won't be buying Barilla anymore. I prefer De Cecco anyway, but even if I didn't, Barilla wouldn't get my dollars. He has the right to his opinion and he has the right to express it, but I also have the right to spend my grocery dollars on a different brand of pasta for whatever reason I choose. I prefer to spend those dollars with companies whose social policies and political/human rights views are closer to my own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. k
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kalivs Sep 29, 2013 06:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't expect everybody to have the same political leanings as me. But, when a company goes out of their way to explain their cultural values, it makes me pause. I will not be using Barilla pasta or sauces anymore

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jerseygirl111 Sep 29, 2013 06:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I always struggle in these situations. I consider myself a Progressive liberal and preach tolerance to all bigots I encounter. That said, when the Chickfila controversy emerged, I swore not to eat there again. My husband called me out on it. He asked me how I expect tolerance from others if I myself am not tolerant of them? Am I not being just as intolerant towards them, biased towards my own opinion? The position I feel is morally correct, (in my own view, of course) so it must be in the right? Isn't that exactly how the other side feels?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have not yet reconciled this argument with myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      21 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Sep 29, 2013 06:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        By that logic, we should all tolerate anti-semitism, racism, sexism, age-ism, >insert your favorite -ism right here< as valid opinions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think once a people has decided that an opinion or world view is deplorable because it promotes hate or discrimination or condescension (not to mention much worse) towards a group of people, it doesn't deserve the same respect as an opinion that has no such consequences.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The people who love to stuff their faces with subpar FF chicken to make a "moral" statement are still allowed to get married, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          JonParker Sep 29, 2013 06:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think there's also a question of actual damage. Say I have no tolerance towards redheads. I'm welcome to express that dislike verbally or in writing. I can attempt to publish anti-redhead screeds in the press. I can start a society to dislike redheads.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now, if I use the profits from my company to donate to anti-redhead organizations, people who find anti-redhead bigotry disgusting are free to boycott my products. That's not intolerance, that's a refusal to spend money with a corporation that publicly doesn't reflect my values.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The same with Barilla. I have to be tolerant of his right to say what he wants, but it's not intolerant of me to refuse to support something that is, in my view, very, very wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Sep 29, 2013 07:10 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aw, what did the gingers ever do to you, JP?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            j/k

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              JonParker Sep 29, 2013 07:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I actually was one as a kid, although it turned brown as I grew up. But I have a pic of me when I was 13 that shows flaming red hair.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          carolinadawg Sep 29, 2013 07:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's not about tolerating or respecting someone else's "opinion", it's about opposing something that is objectively and morally wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Saying a group of people should be denied their human and civil rights isn't equal to saying those green curtains are ugly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: carolinadawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jerseygirl111 Sep 30, 2013 01:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I understand what you are saying but do you understand that when you say: "it's about opposing something that is objectively and morally wrong, " that is exactly how those people feel about homosexuality? It's the same argument. It's just that we believe one way and the Barilla guy believes the other way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Intolerant is defined as being unwilling to tolerate or respect opinions, practices or beliefs different from one's own. By that definition, I would be intolerant of the bigot and round and round we go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            When someone decides not to continue to purchase the product it seems more like a way to punish the bigot for their beliefs than a constructive way to change/inform/educate. I would rather work for positive change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            FYI, I don't purchase Barilla products regardless.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              C. Hamster Sep 30, 2013 01:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm ok with punishing the bigot when he chose to speak for the entire brand and encouraged people that felt elswise to spend their money with a competitor

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                youareabunny Sep 30, 2013 03:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sorry but I find no valid reason to judge someone based on who they choose to love. It's not anyone business. The only rejection of homosexuality that anyone should be concerned with is in their own relationships.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd feel like a damn fool to serve up barilla to my gay uncles.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hill food Oct 1, 2013 09:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  aww bunny yer sweet - we wouldn't notice or care as long they were at least a bit al dente

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lizard Sep 30, 2013 03:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You continue to talk about opinions. The fact is, while I can respect a person's right_to an opinion, that does not mean that person has a right to my unconditional support, or even silence with regards to that opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Moreover, it isn't even really about opinion as many of these beliefs, judgements, etc. are enacted in policy that in turn curtails the rights of people, limits control of their bodies, or turns them into second class citizens. OK?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And yes, culture is also a legitimate ground for articulations of opposition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Lizard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JonParker Sep 30, 2013 04:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why does it always take me twice the number of words you use to express the same idea? Hrumph.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 04:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Because Lizard is trained in the art of Twitter. Do you Twitter? Start now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        JonParker Sep 30, 2013 04:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As someone who does use Twitter, the correct question should be "do you tweet?" And even there, I use twitlonger way more than I should. It comes from having to fill a large number of column inches early in my career.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chemicalkinetics Sep 30, 2013 04:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ohhh... Actually, I don't Twitter. You win. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JonParker Sep 30, 2013 04:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jersey, I do believe that you are seriously struggling with this, and it's largely because the issues get purposefully distorted. Let me break it down like this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Tolerance does not, nor has it ever, meant tolerating the intolerance of others. There's no round and round to it. Intolerance is an evil, and it cannot be justified by demanding that intolerant views be tolerated. That's just word games.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. People have a right to their beliefs, absolutely. However, they do not have the right to insist that their beliefs should apply to those who do not believe as they do. As a straight male, I have the right not to marry another man, but I don't have the right to insist that a gay man may not marry whoever he chooses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To your last point, not continuing to purchase their product is not "punishment." It's attempting to spend my money with vendors who, if they don't share my ethical viewpoints, at least don't actively campaign against them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A lot of people don't understand why adult moral issues can't be reduced down to a set of rules like the ones we were required to follow in kindergarten -- don't pull hair, share your toys, don't eat the Play-Doh. That's because these issues are -- well -- adult. They require thinking in shades of gray, and don't offer the moral clarity of a six year old. That's a feature, not a bug.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't think it would surprise anyone here to learn that I am somewhat involved in social justice issues. That comes from the realization that my white, male, middle class upbringing is not the norm for most of humanity, that other people's experiences are just as valid as mine, and that I want a world where the advantages given me by birth are given to every human.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    13
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jerseygirl111 Oct 3, 2013 10:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. But you are being intolerant of the other person's beliefs. That is why I struggle with my own preaching of tolerance. You can say it's just word games but the other side believes just as strongly against homosexuality as we believe it shouldn't matter. We see them as intolerant (or evil) but they see us the same way. I can't make an intelligent or persuasive argument for their side because I don't agree with it either but it cannot be dismissed as word games.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Again I agree with you that no one should have the right to choose for others but that is exactly what the right accuses us of when we say no prayer in schools or whatever (insert your favorite lefty issue here)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You don't have to respond, I don't wish to continue to take this off on a tangent. I just read all these responses and while I agree with them, I think well, everything said could just as easily be argued by the other side. Just because we are passionate and believe we are in the right doesn't mean the other side doesn't feel exactly the same. I realize this is a rhetorical discussion that could go on forever. I appreciate the time everyone took to respond. It has given me more to think about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        girloftheworld Oct 3, 2013 11:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think the difference is simply this. Tolerence. Is not standing in the way of your belief. It is being Intolerent of when those beliefs are turned into actions against somebody elses human rights. Human rights are not a matter of opinion. Tolerence is not about "acceptance". It is about setting aside and marginlizing a group of people is wrong. It is about equality and dignity. It is not about your personal beliefs.It is about theirs. It is about them feeling safe and free and able to persue their unaliable rights. If I believe in not eating pork. No not all restraunts in the world should quit serving pork. But you should recongnize my right to feel safe asking for a pork free sandwich. If you believe homesexual marriage is wrong. Dont get one. But be tolerent of newlyweds who move next door to you. You dont have to bake the cookies but you should have respect for and protect their human rights.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        9
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          c oliver Oct 3, 2013 11:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ding, ding, ding, I think we have a winner!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            C. Hamster Oct 3, 2013 11:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I love it when 13 year olds school adults.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And in such an articular and thoughtful manner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              c oliver Oct 3, 2013 11:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I worry about the millenials, she gives me hope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 02:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You can reconcile this argument with yourself very simply. Tolerance is not a black and white issue and it sounds like your hubs may be making excuses to eat Chik-Fil-A. Anyway, as I said, it is not a black and white issue, tolerance....much, much grey in there. Only you, as an individual can decide if being tolerant of people whose opinions are the polar opposite of your own are places you want to spend your money. You can choose whether your tolerance of people having the right (and, yes, they DO have the right) to be anti-gay, racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic, etc.is more important to you than your intolerance of people/business who discriminate or disparage gay people, Jews, immigrants, African-Americans, women, etc. I don't mean to invalidate your personal struggle, but it seems fairly obvious to me - either you accept intolerance or you don't. No one is saying others are not entitled to their viewpoint, but as a consumer you can still allow them their rights but not support them with your money.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4. l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  laraffinee Sep 29, 2013 12:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is interesting how many insensitive rude comments have been made here by both sides of the issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It says a lot about how far we have to go in understanding and tolerating differing points of view.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JonParker Sep 29, 2013 12:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For my part, you're right. I don't have much understanding and tolerance for bigotry, and hopefully I never will.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This isn't a discussion about the budget deficit, about which reasonable people can disagree. It's about discrimination and treating people as second class citizens, and that's really not something that deserves understanding and tolerance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hill food Sep 29, 2013 02:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I TOTALLY agree Jon, yet I still think it starts with dialogue, however frustrating.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        laraffinee Oct 3, 2013 03:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I fail to see how Barilla's statements are discriminatory or treat people as second class citizens. They are not anti-gay nor anti women in the workforce. They support a certain view of the family unit. I fail to see how supporting a particular viewpoint makes them anti another view point. I support gay marriage and women in the workplace, but that does not mean I am against a heterosexual family with a stay at home mom. It is not black and white, but a living relation to the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 06:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In one way, I agree. I am not anti-gay or anti-women in the work force but I also am a stay-at-home Mom serving in what one may call a traditional family. Of course just because I participate in one type of family unit does not mean I don't support other family units. That would be crazy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          However, Barilla has stated that he is okay with "gays" not wanting to eat his pasta because Barilla's marketing is targeted to "represent the family" (i.e. - gay people cannot make a family). Perhaps me and many others are not reading this correctly, but I feel that this implies that gay people aren't a concern to them because they are interested in targeting "families" as their customers, and again, gay people do not make families. Add that to the comment about not agreeing with gay people adopting children, it would seem that he is not just supporting a "certain view of the family unit", but actively against anything other than: man+woman+children = family unit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The concept of family is anything BUT black & white these days - however, someone forgot to tell Barilla that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            C. Hamster Oct 3, 2013 10:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Declaring that gay people should not be allowed to adopt is quite obviously anti-gay and discriminatory.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Declaring that you would not allow homosexuals to be portrayed in your advertisements is also quite clearly anti-gay

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            e
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ErnieD Oct 3, 2013 02:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Got to agree with you, JonParker. I don't know that I'll ever get this idea that criticizing intolerance is itself intolerant. Intolerant would be if I said I didn't think Guido Barilla should be allowed to get married or have/adopt children because he has expressed bigoted viewpoints. I haven't seen anyone suggest this. Saying that I won't buy Barilla products anymore is not the same thing by a long shot. The anti-gay equivalent to boycotting Barilla would be Guido Barilla choosing to personally not watch How I Met Your Mother because Neil Patrick Harris is gay, and that is not at all what happened. In his role as a spokesperson for the company, he implied strongly that he does not consider gay families to be families, and stated flat-out that he does not think gay people should be able to adopt children. This moves beyond making his own choices into the realm of imposing his choices onto others, and I won't be supplying any more money to a company that supports this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bill Mariott is a good counterpoint to this Barilla business.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            He's quoted here saying that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, a statement I categorically and unequivocally disagree with. However, he apparently recognizes that he can choose to live this belief in his private life without forcing it into the lives of others, and I wouldn't hesitate to stay at a Mariott. Or have a drink there, which is possible even though he and his church are also against the consumption of alcohol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ErnieD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              jrvedivici Oct 3, 2013 09:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you for sharing that article on Marriott, I would love to hear some other views regarding that. I think you have the right attitude when it comes to doing business with the Marriott brand but I would like to see if others feel the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (I knew the Marriott family were devote Mormons but never really put 2 and 2 together, I am a frequent guest at their properties)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                HungWeiLo Oct 4, 2013 02:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                How devout can he be - when he knowingly profits from alcohol and naughty movie rentals (a billion dollar revenue stream in all major hotel chains).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hypocrites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          jarona Sep 29, 2013 12:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          OK. I won't eat it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            youareabunny Sep 28, 2013 05:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's disappointing that in 2013 it's still "ok" to discriminate against LGBT community. While much of the population are angered, there is probably an equal group that fully support and will buy 2-3x as much. Chick fil a support day had people waiting hours in line for a sandwich and milkshake.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think that if you can discriminate against one group of people, you can discriminate against others. Just most business people are smarter than to make an anti-race comment, but anti LGBT comments are still acceptable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I keep it safe and hate everyone, equally - grumpy cat style.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            19 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              JonParker Sep 28, 2013 11:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One of the big differences is that the big lines supporting Chik-Fil-A died down after an initial outburst, while the people who foreswore buying from them find it remarkably easy to keep on doing so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The tide is turning. Not without a lot of screaming from those intrinsically opposed to change, but it is turning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                youareabunny Sep 29, 2013 12:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That is true, but I'm curious whether chickfila's numbers have been affected at all now that it's x months after the fact. I'm inclined to think their taking in similar profits as before the fiasco.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You're more optimistic than me. I'm working on it...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 1, 2013 01:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I cannot comment on Chik-Fil-A's profits, but I recently read an article discussing how one of the chains that made a big deal about passing on costs of health insurance on to the consumers - clearly a political, anti-ACA statement more than anything - having experienced a downturn in the last quarter. I cannot remember which company it was, offhand, but I know that it made me happy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On a side note, while at home in Queens, NY we never eat at chains. We don't have to and we don't really like to. We recently spent nearly a week in Lancaster, PA. One evening, after returning home from a loooooong day of outlet shopping and wanting a few glasses of wine on my hotel balcony before dinnertime, we agreed we would try one of the two restaurants within walking distance. Our choices were Carraba's and Outback. We learned that they are owned by the same parent company. How did we learn this? Because we looked them up. We wanted to make a good effort to NOT spend our money at a Darden, or other chain group restos that decided screwing their employees and customers via media-grabbing anti-ACA policy announcements was a good idea. While reading, DH commented that the parent company is a big financial supporter of the GOP and I told him almost every company is - I can deal with that, just not the idiots like Papa John's or Darden or that guy who own that Hurricane's chain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I find it personally satisfying to make decisions based on my own viewpoints and I admit I find it very satisfying when companies run by people who somehow haven't figured out that mixing politics with pleasure (and dining out is a pleasure) is NEVER a good idea - get their just desserts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fowler Oct 1, 2013 01:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>> DH commented that the parent company is a big financial supporter of the GOP and I told him almost every company is<<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not a member of the GOP so would love to see any legitimate statistics that support your claim that almost every company supports the GOP. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Fowler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 1, 2013 03:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Meh. It was more of a "chill-out, darling, we aren't going to not eat at Carraba's because they support the GOP. We all know that many, many corporations support the GOP for the promise of corporate tax benefits, now, I am hungry and they are across the street, can we just go eat?" comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It was good enough for my dear husband and I have decided it is good enough for anyone reading this conversation without the need of stats to back up a passing comment from hungry wife to hubs. I'm sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tom34 Oct 1, 2013 09:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wouldn't go down the campaign contribution road as the Dems receive their money from many of the same companies depending on what part of the Country a particular candidate is from and how close the race is likely to be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        PS: The corporate tax rate in the US is among the highest in the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Justpaula Oct 2, 2013 04:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You are correct. Many corporations and trade organizations do, overall, donate to BOTH parties and individual candidates in each party. But, if you look at a breakdown of the top donors you will see that most corporations put the bulk of their donations towards the GOP, while trade unions (many are included as top overall donors) largely contribute to Democrats.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Since this is a site about food, I will specifically mention the National Restaurant Association, whose board is made up of leaders from most of the country's largest food establishments. It is an organization that over the past 12 or 13 cycles has allocated 83% of their donation funds to the Republican party or Republican candidates, and 17% to Dems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/total...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In other words, most chain restaurants support the GOP - so it isn't something I am going to use to decide where to eat. It is what it is. Now, if a specific chain comes out and pronounces their position as being anti-gay, anti-union, anti-health benefits, etc., I will be more likely to not spend my money there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tom34 Oct 2, 2013 07:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Whether right or wrong I have become very cynical of politicians in general, left, right & center. I refer to all of them as pimping whores who choose a base and spend their political careers voting bills that throw $$$ at that base to become re-elected so they can continue on as powerful important people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Clearly not what the Founders had in mind. Term limits or 3rd world status for our kids and out grandchildren.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sorry :-(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Justpaula Oct 2, 2013 02:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No need to be sorry. I basically agree with you. It is a sad state we have arrived at. I cannot place 100% blame on politicians from either party.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aside from the politicians it is hard to have much respect for many large business owners (large....small business is a different story) and organizations like the National Restaurant Association which seems to serve the exclusive purpose of lobbying in D.C. to make sure its member companies keep as much money as possible in their greedy little hands instead of providing for the folks who work very hard for them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That is actually just one of the reasons I prefer small business restaurants vs. chains. Maybe the people who own that little place around the corner have political viewpoints that would make me want to spit out my food. But they don't talk about that stuff and they don't bribe politicians. Maybe I am naive, but the only thing that seems important to them, in business, is to be serving really good food and staying afloat. They are far less likely to have their hands in the finance of politics. And that is how I like it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              P.S. - I too have given much thought and have had several discussions with others about my fear for the future that my now 3 1/2 year old son will have to endure. I hope he at least will always have access to good food. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Tom34 Oct 2, 2013 11:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I will have to confess I have been away from the restaurant business for many years & don't know much about their PACs but I am sure they have one foot on each side of the legal line just like the rest of them. I would love to see a constitutional challenge brought against all lobbying groups as they clearly circumvent the democratic process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As for chains, I am lucky to have great independents in my area and rarely eat at chains other than an occasional stop at a fast food joint for the kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The food will probably always be there but it may take a wheel barrel full of cash to get it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 3, 2013 02:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "The food will probably always be there but it may take a wheel barrel full of cash to get it."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~~~~~~~~

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thankfully, even at his young age he has expressed a great interest (and I let him participate) in home cooking. This is a good thing, since "wheelbarrows full of cash" will probably be hard to come by - and even harder to carry around. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tom34 Oct 3, 2013 06:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Going out to eat is definitely nice but with the information on the internet & quality ingredients readily available today I can usually put out a meal that is better than the chains and many independents as well at a fraction of the cost (Meal, Drinks, Tax & Tip).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Both my girls like high quality food and both like to cook as well. As you say, may end up being a very good skill to have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hill food Oct 1, 2013 02:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ehh sometimes ya just can't avoid it - don't knock yourself out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    youareabunny Sep 29, 2013 01:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/traditional-values-pay-chick-fil-a-makes-record-breaking-profits-after-marr

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ATLANTA, October 26, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) – Chick-fil-A has learned upholding traditional values is not just good for the soul; it’s also good for business. Since President Dan Cathy stirred up a firestorm of controversy and protests by daring to say in public that he supports traditional marriage, the fast food chain has enjoyed record sales and increased brand recognition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From wiki, each franchise makes average 2 million a year. According to company website, they've had 45 straight years of profit. Although somewhat redundant, I feel my inclusion of the qualifier 'straight' was appropriate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Edit. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Im feeling the need to hulk smash. Time to watch some cute cat videos.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      JonParker Sep 29, 2013 07:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Currently same sex marriage is legal in 9 states, and in some (including mine) by popular vote. I guarantee that kind of thing is not going to fly much longer. Too many people have friends from work, social activities, or family who are gay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I checked my Facebook friends list last night, and while I have a lot of friends, including one of my very best, who are gay, none are my friends because they are gay (although one of them is because he's my kid). I don't think I'm atypical.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm a straight white guy, and I'm proud to say that I was able to vote for same sex marriage and an African-American president. There's been some backlash on both, yes, but this is not my Dad's America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hill food Sep 29, 2013 08:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "(and) none are my friends because they are gay"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        good, as that would be condescending, fake-y and spotted a mile off. (heh I'm tempted to quote someone I know, but I don't know how it would translate online - essentially the same sentiment, just said a little more rednecky)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tom34 Sep 29, 2013 08:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Your 1st paragraph hit the nail on the head. When people come to a conclusion based on their own experiences that conclusion is a lasting one that is passed on to their children and results in meaningful lasting change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Sep 29, 2013 01:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, yes and yes. Thank goodness the bigots are dying out. Screaming hell and high water going down, but they're fewer and fewer of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: youareabunny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hill food Sep 28, 2013 11:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        yeah people (until further notice) just sort of suck. not that I'm anti-social or anything, just cautious. I WANT to be proved wrong. I really do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4. b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BostonLover Sep 28, 2013 10:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm assuming his views of the "traditional family" would also extend to single-parent families. Again, I'm ok with this. It's his opinion and he has a right to it. He didn't say gays shouldn't have the same rights, he just said that he values the traditional family unit. As do many consumers, myself included. Nothing wrong with that. Although, to be honest, I value a two-parent household, gay or straight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: BostonLover
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ruth Lafler Sep 28, 2013 11:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually, he did say gays shouldn't have the same rights: he said they shouldn't be allowed to adopt children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Sep 28, 2013 08:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, that is still discrimination. I agree with your distinction, as no adult has the "right" to adopt a child - the child's interests must come first. But there is no evidence that children adopted by gay people have worse outcomes than others.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: BostonLover
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Sep 28, 2013 08:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I doubt he has much use for single people either. The problem is mouthing about a single model for all. Not everyone is straight, not everyone has or wants to have kids - people are different, which is great!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Most people like pasta. I don't like mine topped with bigotry against anyone. Certainly not against my gay and lesbian friends, who are fine people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. greygarious Sep 28, 2013 10:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Glad I save my supermarket receipts, so this straight senior citizen knows where to return the Barilla that she likes and will never again use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The corporate apologies mean nothing when they are motivated by self-preservation but there is no genuine change of attitude/belief on the part of the offender. I don't forgive or forget. No Chick-Fil-A, no Walmart, no Mel Gibson. No Seinfeld or Everybody Loves Raymond reruns, even though short-memoried Hollywood honchos saw fit to give the latter show's bigot a subsequent sitcom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am sorry that when a company is boycotted, innocent workers may lose their jobs. This can be averted if owners and stockholders expel the bigoted executives. That decision is for *their* consciences, not the customers'. All the customer can do is speak up about the reason s/he is boycotting the company's products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. Ruthie789 Sep 28, 2013 10:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone in the food business, needs to be an ambassador, opinions, comments like the above are unacceptable. I do like Barilla pasta and let's face it, boycotting it will only lead to the loss of jobs for the individuals that have their pay cheque signed by the above CEO. Very sad turn of events.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              16 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Ruthie789
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sockii Oct 1, 2013 01:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yet if I buy more boxes of ANOTHER brand of pasta, and that company becomes more successful, then they may need to hire MORE people to keep up with demand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hence, if I don't like the politics of a company, I'm not going to buy their products. My money will be spent elsewhere to help create and support jobs elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sockii
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  jrvedivici Oct 1, 2013 01:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (Playing devils advocate)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When choosing the other company to place your purchasing power with, will you look for their particular stance on this topic?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or as long as their opinions remain private you are comfortable with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You can be anti-LBGT, as long as you don't admit it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Chemicalkinetics Oct 1, 2013 01:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I raised that point earlier. I think most of the people said that is fine. As long as they kept their opinions to themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      jrvedivici Oct 1, 2013 01:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok, sorry I missed that and duplicated the question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      With regards to the answer I find that interesting. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Chemicalkinetics Oct 1, 2013 01:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't be sorry. The thread is very long. No one will able to find it. Feel free to duplicate the question. It is a good question, I think -- obviously I think that, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here was my question:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9182...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You can read the responses. Hope you will get some nice responses too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (I didn't mean to silent you when I said that a similar question was asked. I meant to give you a few preexisting answers)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Justpaula Oct 1, 2013 02:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I agree with things being okay as long as businesses keep things like this to themselves. I cannot assume every product I buy or every establishment I patronize shares my political and personal viewpoints and if they don't yell it out to me, loud and clear, I can live with not knowing. Yesterday, I found myself in need of a box of pasta and pruchased Ronzoni, instead of Barilla. Who knows? Maybe Ronzoni feels the same way about people LGBT families as Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We took my son to Hershey's Chocolate World last week. My husband is VERY pro-Union and pro-Made In the USA - and we do seek out like-minded companies, for example when I buy his work clothes (he is an ELectrcian) I shop online and search for items made in the USA. Anyway,a day after our visit to Hershey he read an article linked to FB about how Hershey's has outsourced the production of Reese's to Mexico, probably for cheap labor. He said he regretted "spending a dime in that place". I explained to him that we cannot possibly know everything about every company's production and labor practices. When we learn something we can act with our wallet. We do our best to stand by our values, but if we researched everything we buy a) we would have no time to actually buy anything; and b) would likely find our pantry half-empty.When a company makes a statement adamantly opposite to our values, we cross them off the list, but a little "ignorance is bliss" is okay. Again, we do our best.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            James Cristinian Oct 1, 2013 02:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Your computer is assembled in China, HDTVs almost all in Korea or Mexico, the same with many big name US appliances.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: James Cristinian
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Justpaula Oct 1, 2013 02:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Exactly. I also had to remind hubs that our new Ford - he wanted to buy American - was manufactured in Mexico.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Chemicalkinetics Oct 1, 2013 02:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <but if we researched everything we buy a) we would have no time to actually buy anything; and b) would likely find our pantry half-empty.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Time is certain true, but like you said, sometime it is just a lot more information than you and I may able to handle. For example, if you try to look for CEO who are against interracial marriage, then I suspect that you will only lose 10-15% of your shopping option because I believe most people these days are very open to interracial marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Record-High 86% Approve of Black-White Marriages"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.gallup.com/poll/149390/rec...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              However, if you try to look for Pro-Union and Pro-Made in USA companies, I think you will lose more than half of your options out there. For example, most of the smart phones are not made in USA. First, most of the brands for the smart phones are foreign like Samsung, Sony, LG, Nokia.....etc. Even Apple make their iPhone in China. So you are down to nothing really.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Veggo Oct 1, 2013 02:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's remarkable that the largest company in America by market value, Apple, does not manufacture a single product in America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Veggo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Chemicalkinetics Oct 1, 2013 04:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have to now come back and do a 180o degree flip. Yes, iPhone are not made in US on paper, but in China. However, that may also be misleading because they are really "finished" in China. Majority of the value added are somewhere else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just look at the first table as well as the first graphs. Most of the stuffs are made elsewhere, not US nor China.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://singaporeanipaduser.blogspot.c...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                jrvedivici Oct 1, 2013 02:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nice, thank you for the very well thought and laid out response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hill food Oct 1, 2013 09:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jpaula - yeah I try to buy local and domestic, but it's become just not humanly possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thimes Oct 1, 2013 02:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes I do my best to research from whom I purchase.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And there is an App for that

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Buycott - it's not perfect but it is a start.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: thimes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Oct 1, 2013 02:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ah, cool. I'll get that one for my spiffy new phone once it arrives :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd heard about the app -- do you like it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sockii Oct 1, 2013 03:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Or as long as their opinions remain private you are comfortable with that?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 09:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If featuring gay people would help sell a product, then a company should do it. But I don't see why a pasta company needs to feature gay people to sell more pasta. Do gay people not eat pasta unless they see commercials featuring gays eating pasta? Whether the Barilla guy is bigoted or sexist, I don't care to comment since I don't have any desire to ascertain one way or another.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm all for everyone having the same rights but there's no legal obligation to feature gay people in commercials. It's not discrimination not to put gay people in commercials.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            21 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              c oliver Sep 28, 2013 09:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The point that was being made is that they don't think gay families represent what THEY represent. They're certainly entitled to their bigotry but we are also entitled to reject that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 09:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here you have the clash of two different rights. They have the right to religious freedom. Gay people have the right not to be discriminated against. Unfortunately certain religious beliefs don't believe gay people are "normal." So gay people disrespect some religious people. Better to spend time modifying religious views than demonizing religious people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  c oliver Sep 28, 2013 10:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  " So gay people disrespect some religious people" I most sincerely do not understand what that means. And, again, we're talking about food advertising.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 10:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Barilla doesn't think that gay people represent what they represent - that's their religious point of view. They are entitle to that point of view, are they not? Are they not being demonized for practicing their religion?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      v
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Violatp Sep 28, 2013 10:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last I checked, Barilla isn't a church.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On top of which, religion is a choice. Homosexuality is not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hiding bigotry behind your choice of a religion is loathsome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Violatp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Did you really think I said or implied Barilla is a church or a religion? What in the world made you think that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          v
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Violatp Sep 28, 2013 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What in the world made you bring religion into it in the first place?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, I was being sarcastic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Violatp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 10:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is just a guess. Guido Barilla is catholic and what he said is based on his religious beliefs. What makes you think this is just some bigot mouthing off? Did you not know that Italy is full of Catholics?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              JonParker Sep 28, 2013 10:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Using this as an argument doesn't hold water. First off, I haven't heard anything from Barilla that suggests that their attitude is for religious reasons, so you're projecting that with no evidence. Second, I don't think anyone is suggesting that they don't have the right to their views -- it's just that a large number of people won't buy fom them if they do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ten or twenty years ago it was common for various religious organizations to organize boycotts of companies that they felt like were in some way violating their religious beliefs. The difference now is that companies increasingly find the threat of a boycott by pro-gay rights people more threatening to their business than the people who boycott JC Penny's because Ellen Degeneris does their ads.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Barilla or any other company is free to discriminate in any legal manner. But there's no point in crying over lost business when the majority of consumers find their position unconscionable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gaffk Sep 28, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "sacral": Latin: Of or pertaining to sacred rites or observances

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Although I do not identify with any religion as an adult, I was raised Catholic, and his use of "sacral family" beeped loudly on my Catholic radar.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 11:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just because you haven't heard doesn't mean it's not true. Do a little research and you'll find plenty of Catholics backing Guido. Please stop with the "I haven't heard" or "I don't think," because you haven't even tried. I know you are completely one-sided when you want to advocate a point of view.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JonParker Sep 29, 2013 12:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I did not say it was not true, I said that there wasn't evidence to support it. It very well might be for religious reasons. But this is really about his public statements on this issue. Making inferences as to his reasons isn't fair to him. The question is not whether some Catholics support him, the question is whether he made those statements because of his Catholicism, which may or may not be true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, I'm not even sure what you meant to say in your last sentence. Of course I'm advocating a point of view.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: JonParker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lizard Sep 28, 2013 04:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thank you! This 'right to one's opinion' or 'freedom of speech' argument is a the persistent red herring in such arguments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. I can respect the right for a person to have an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. The right to say whatever one wants does not protect a person from the voices of dissension and disagreement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't even want to step into your argument about Catholics, which seems strangely person, but I'd like to point out that doctrine and Church policies can be challenged without attacking its adherents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Even the Church is subject to change (see Vatican 1 v Vatican 2 and recent decrees of Pope Francis).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lagatta Sep 28, 2013 08:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, but even the current Pope seems far more enlightened.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Many Catholics, and certainly many Italians, are welcoming, open-minded people. Moreover, I don't really care what Guido Barilla thinks; he should simply have had the business acumen to STARE ZITTO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Zitto e mangia, Guido. There is far better dry pasta, anyway...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              c oliver Sep 28, 2013 10:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm sorry if I've 'demonized' them because that is not my intention. I very simply let my spending on products emphasize the things I feel strongly about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Worldwide Diner Sep 28, 2013 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My only point is that it would be more constructive to change religious teachings than to demonize people who've held the same belief for decades. In the mean time, you can spend your money anyway you like.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Worldwide Diner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 02:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This may be the most confusing (for me) comment on this entire thread. Gays are disrespecting religious people? Religious people are more than welcome to disapprove of homosexuality, if that is what their religion tells them. But, putting the gay issue aside for a minute, since I am not Catholic, am I actively disrespecting Catholics for eating meat on Fridays during lent? Are Catholics disrespecting Jews by watching TV on Friday nights? How can you be disrespecting someone for having different beliefs than them? I AM SO CONFUSED.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hill food Oct 7, 2013 02:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think WWD was saying something like that these folks aren't gonna change anytime soon, so go ahead and take your pasta money somewhere else, but don't expect it to have a major effect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (but I like the idea of overly concerned gentiles sitting in the dark on Shabbos lest they offend the neighbors - heh)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                calumin Oct 7, 2013 04:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think he was talking about a clash of different world views, and the problems of a dialogue in which one side assumes that the people on the other side have the same world view as they do, which makes criticisms of the other side seem more valid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There are lots of examples of this. George Washington owned slaves most of his life. In 2013, do we ruin his legacy as Founding Father of America because he owned over 300 slaves at time of his death? Today we find that appalling, but that was part of the social fabric of that time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought WWD was saying that it is much more ingrained in the social fabric in Italy for someone to have the views that the Barilla chairman does. So you can demonize that one person for saying what he says, but it would be more constructive to look at the society (which is not progressive American society) which breeds these beliefs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Having said all that, I don't really agree. We live in a global society and his company has a global presence. It's completely legitimate for people who take offense at his comments to hold him accountable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 8, 2013 05:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Overly concerned gentiles...". This description made me laugh out loud. Anyway, neighborly gentiles may serve a purpose to observant Jews and they would never be expected to sit in the dark....who would be their Shabbos Goy? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BTW, while I am Jewish, I am not observant, so I am glad to know that WWD did not intend to say that when I eat a meatloaf for dinner on a Friday night during lent, I am not being disrespectful of anyone. Thank you for explaining. I guess he just used an odd choice of words, which we are all inclined to do from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hill food Oct 8, 2013 12:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Paula, PAULA! are you there? we forgot today, can you come over and make a light? at least in the back hall."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'd be honored to be a 'Shabbos Goy' (although they'd darn best share some leftover food type things the days when the kitchen is operating proper).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but I'd need strict direction on some issues.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. linguafood Sep 28, 2013 04:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GrammyM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Chowhound Team Sep 28, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Folks, this topic has in general gone well, and we'd like to keep it that way. Please refrain from personal confrontations or accusations. Rate the chow, not the chowhound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              miss_belle Sep 28, 2013 08:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Linguafood ~ maybe you should have said 2 guys kissing ~ Nice. That would have given people notice. But instead you posted a YouTube link and just said Nice. I sincerely hope you weren't looking for trouble.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, this is my first post to this thread because I've been trying to stay out of it. And I probably should have.:-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                c oliver Sep 28, 2013 08:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Considering that this thread is about having or not having gays in a company's advertising, I pretty much figured out what I was going to see.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood Sep 28, 2013 01:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Looking for trouble? I liked the commercial and found it to be in context with this thread - just like the Bertolli ad further down thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wasn't aware of the fact that anybody needed to be given "a notice" (did you perhaps mean a warning?).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We're all adults here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    KaimukiMan Sep 29, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    miss_belle, I think in a lot of ways your reaction was exactly the point of much of this conversation. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it isn't intended to be. I think your's is a very typical reaction by many people to the video. That makes your voice here important. At the same time you didn't say it was gross or disgusting. You just wished you had been better prepared for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I too was surprised by the commercial, although not offended or disquieted. Had it been a man and a woman kissing, people would not bat an eye. Had it been two men in cars firing guns at each other, the image would have gone unnoticed. But two men kissing is disquieting at best for many people, and outright offensive to many others.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not in favor of extreme PDA even among straight people - groping each other on the bus or subway, long tounge-in-throat public kisses, etc. But why do we tolerate/ignore straight people doing it when we - as a society - abhor gay people doing exactly the same thing? Even something as nonchalant as people holding hands, which in many parts of the world would be normal behavior for men who are just good friends, makes many in our culture react with fire and brimstone speeches, or even physical violence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If the ad lingua posted made someone uneasy, then so much the better. When people are uneasy they think just a little bit harder about things - as you obviously did. It caused you to post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    9
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: KaimukiMan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      miss_belle Sep 29, 2013 11:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      KaimukiMan ~ thank you for your thoughtful post. But I had plenty of advance warning what to expect in that link. The mods kind of left me holding the bag there:-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Sep 30, 2013 12:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          KaimukiMan Sep 30, 2013 05:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ah yes, understand. I've been there once or twice - the only tree left standing in what used to be a forest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thegforceny Sep 30, 2013 05:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Why would you need a warning? That's the issue. It was not NSFW.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: miss_belle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          rrems Sep 30, 2013 05:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, please. That was a commercial that aired on Italian television. You need a warning for it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. ski_gpsy Sep 27, 2013 11:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I will have no problem boycotting Barilla, I think their pasta is lousy. Never eating at a Chick-Fil-A has been easy because I don't like to consume the scary chemicals they put in their food, especially Dimethylpolysiloxane (a type of silicone used in caulks and sealants, as a filler for breast implants, and as a key ingredient in Silly Putty).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        However, if Haagen Dazs were to suddenly come out with an ignorant, hateful political stand I could be in trouble.... ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. minchilli Sep 27, 2013 03:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This post was moved from the Italy Food board, so I'd just like to add one comment to put the whole thing in a bit more context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The Barilla remark was made during an interview addressing a recent proposal in the Italian legislature to come to terms with the way women are represented in the Italian media. Barilla was being asked whether he would support portraying women and men in more equal roles within the family (i.e. not barefoot and behind a stove).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So, in a sense, his response was not just an attack on 'non traditional' families, but also a call to keep women in their traditional roles as the ones who stay home, take care of the kids, make and serve the pasta, waiting for their menfolk to come home from the office.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: minchilli
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ruth Lafler Sep 27, 2013 03:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the additional information. It was clear even from the remarks that were widely reported that he was sexist as well as anti-gay, but the extent to which they were sexist has not been as publicized.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: minchilli
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              KaimukiMan Sep 27, 2013 04:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              so its true . . . mario batali must give up cooking pasta. probably a good idea, look what happened when chef boy-r-dee was given free reign. italian cuisine has never fully recovered.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              rrems Sep 27, 2013 12:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I find it disturbing that many of the posters here say that although they disagree with it they "respect his opinion". Why respect an "opinion" that is bigoted and ignorant?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As for those who say Barilla pasta is crap, so they wouldn't buy it anyway, would you buy it if it were not crap, in light of these revelations?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              61 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              7
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: rrems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                GH1618 Sep 27, 2013 12:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't agree that his opinion is bigoted, which means intolerant. He has not expressed intolerance of gay families (and has said the opposite), only that his company does not use gay couples in its advertising. It is his perogative to project the image he prefers in his advertising. The image is not anti-gay, it just include them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I see more intolerance from those who have a gay agenda against those who do not choose to promote it than I see from Mr. Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  JonParker Sep 27, 2013 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, it is the company's choice whether to exclude a large number of families from their advertising, and it's perfectly reasonable for those who find that attitude unacceptable to refuse to buy their product. I do find the willful exclusion of gay families from their advertising to be clearly anti-gay, just as would find the willful exclusion of blacks, Caucasians or Asians to be anti those groups as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have no idea what you mean by "gay agenda," other than two words strung together to sound scary, but it is not intolerant to demand respect and equality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    HillJ Sep 27, 2013 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.barillagroup.com/corporate...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Did you read his public apology on the Barilla website?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ruth Lafler Sep 27, 2013 03:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children (which, btw was never included in any of his "apologies," so I can only assume he doesn't regret saying it) isn't bigoted?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        EarlyBird Oct 7, 2013 03:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children...isn't bigoted?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That being said, is a child better off being raised by two loving, moral and skilled parents of the same sex rather than being raised family-less in an orphanage or being shuttled around to foster homes? Hmm...let me do the math, Sgr. Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          c oliver Oct 7, 2013 03:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or being raised by two straight people who aren't as good at parenting as the gay couple.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            EarlyBird Oct 7, 2013 03:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Agreed. There is a lot of rotten parenting by heterosexual couples out there, and good gay couple would be a God-send to those children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Oct 7, 2013 03:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That notion is still anti-gay, and misguided.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              EarlyBird Oct 7, 2013 03:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You're right, but my point is to establish a hierarchy of values. The job is to educate people who hold this wrong-headed idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                C. Hamster Oct 7, 2013 09:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And what about committed gay couples where one is the biogical parent and the other partner adopts the child to make a legal family?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood Oct 7, 2013 09:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What about it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    c oliver Oct 7, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm trying to think of a scenario where that isn't the case. And, yea, as linguafood said "what about it?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  e
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ErnieD Oct 7, 2013 04:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If he were basing that on evidence or research that indicated it would hurt the adopted child, it would be pro-child. Given that there is no such evidence, he's not. He's therefore basing his opinion on his own assumption that gay couples are not competent parents or are, by their very gayness, harmful. That's pretty much the dictionary definition of bigotry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ErnieD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    EarlyBird Oct 7, 2013 04:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, Ernie. And I was making the point you were making, that if there was some genuine evidence, not just his own bias, that gay parents make bad parents - and there is no such evidence - his statement would not be "anti-gay," but rather, "pro-child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My nature is to challenge the people I agree with. I'm not a joiner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tom34 Oct 7, 2013 05:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My hunch is that gay parents may well do a better overall job of parenting as many have to go through a very time consuming & expensive adoption process which indicates there was a conscious, mature decision making process that took place (vs) others who often have children by mistake and/or long before they are emotionally or financially ready to raise children and sometimes just because having children is the thing to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sockii Oct 8, 2013 08:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ANY couple that tries to adopt, gay or straight, has to go through a "very time consuming & expensive adoption process".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm just saying, as a hetero infertile all for gay adoption rights who has looked into adoption herself and given up on the process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sockii
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tom34 Oct 8, 2013 11:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A straight co-worker has adopted 2 children (about $30,000 ea) and as you say the process & wait was excruciating. Both also have respiratory problems as a result of CDS use by the single hetro mother.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I also know several gay couples who went through the same process. Unlike so many straight pro-creators, those who go through the adoption process live and breathe for their children. Because more often than not gay couples have to adopt I would have to believe on average they are extraordinary parents. I think a research project (infant to adult) on the subject would be very eye opening and would make a very powerful argument against long held traditions. I am not a gambler but if I had to put down a significant wager with out empirical data, my money would be children of same sex couples are disproportionately successful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Oct 8, 2013 11:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Studies have been done on this subject -- I had posted a few links on this thread but they were deleted. Here is one, but do a search on the interwebs. They certainly are out there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Tom34 Oct 8, 2013 11:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That NYDN story was interesting. As a Straight W/M with 2 daughters I have been more preoccupied with the violent culture of urban youth (born / raised if thats what you call it from hetro's) depicted on the news every night and never really thought about children of same sex couples. This thread has been very enlightening. With very little deliberation my hunch about kids of same sex couples was very obvious to me. I wish picking stocks was as easy :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                jrvedivici Oct 8, 2013 10:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have never understood why there are specific laws and protections in place that excludes or rather protects one segment of the population from making the single worst decision of their life time. Why should gays have the protection(s) of not being allowed to get married, hell I wish I was excluded from doing it 19 years ago when I made the decision! Lol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have said before, there is a reason why a synonym to the word Gay is happy or joyful, it’s because most or none have been married!! If you want to get rid of the gay marriage debate, let gay’s get married. After a decade of being married they will look back and say, “What the hell were we thinking?” Remember how happy we were before we got married? You want to end the gay marriage debate, let them get married and be miserable like the rest of us!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Stated previously in this thread I have no problem with gay marriage, civil unions or whatever will give them the equal marital/parental rights we straights enjoy. “Marriage” is a bit of a hot topic for religious reasons; however call it whatever you want, just be treated equal to your hetero equivalents. Enough said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While that study Lingua posted is good and informative I find a “flaw” in it. At this point gay marriage is in its’ infancy stages. The numbers of actual gay marriages are so small statistically compared to the overall gay population –and- the number of gay adoptive parents are most likely fractional percentage of the overall gay population. Right now you are seeing the pioneers of the gay marriage/adoption movement. These are the families that will be noted in history books as the revolutionaries of the gay family unit in America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you take a look at the history of the straight families let’s say the peak of the American Straight Families was the baby boom 1946-1964. If you were to compare statistics for straight families from that time period to straight families of today, I’m sure you would see similar statistics as the Gay vs. Straight article Lingua provided above. I suspect over time, over several generations of gay marriage you will start to find the tables will level between gay families and straight families with the statistics of their marriage/divorce rate and condition of their children, quality of the upbringing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gay or Straight we are all still humans, and our unique ability to f* things up will prevail regardless of what your orientation is. Sad to say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  calumin Oct 8, 2013 11:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Arguing that children of gay parents are happier than children of straight parents takes people down a slippery slope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you can argue that they are happier, then others can argue that they are less happy and more damaged. All of this is irrelevant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We don't regulate marriage based on whether we think the people in question will be happy. People are entitled to enter unhappy marriages. It is very likely that there is a higher correlation between strength of marriage and happiness of child than there is sexual orientation of parents to happiness of child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The only question is whether there a specific issue about having gay parents, independent of the relative quality of individual marriages, that is detrimental to the child. There is no kind of independent evidence to prove or disprove this -- to think that there is is pointless. The only "evidence" that exists is socially and culturally-based - it's not like there is a biological "gay gene" which the child inherits that would affect its biological makeup.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    EarlyBird Oct 9, 2013 02:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "It is very likely that there is a higher correlation between strength of marriage and happiness of child than there is sexual orientation of parents to happiness of child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I fully agree with this. Nearly every indicator of happiness and success goes down for children raised in a single parent households, vs. those raised by two spouses in a stable marriage. People who choose - choose - to be single parents are making a selfish choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You'll notice I didn't even mention "loving" marriage; although that is the ideal, just stable is enough in terms of raising happy, healthy children. Traditionalists and everyone else should be focused like a laser beam on the problem of single parents, and far less on the gender of committed, stable, married parents. It's why I see gay couples asking for the right to fully commit to each other legally and socially in the compact of marriage to be a conservative and stabilizing thing, not a radical political act.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cacio e pepe Oct 12, 2013 01:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Choosing to have a child as a single parent is no more a selfish act than choosing to procreate as a couple is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While you cite broad data that children from two-parent homes are "happier" than those from single-parent homes, that data is essentially raw with regards to the issue you raise. Many of those "unhappy" children in single-parent homes have lived through a divorce, split, etc.,. This is a very different kettle of fish from a successful, well-educated, single woman choosing to have a child on her own. There is little data analyzing that scenario.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anecdotally, I know a woman who was extremely well-educated and was a partner in an established national law firm. She chose to adopt two girls and change careers to devote more time to them. They are two of the happiest and successful children I know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On the surface, it seems like you might be bringing some social baggage with you into this question. Hard to tell from an internet post. But I find it a little self-righteous to label even the majority of single women who choose to be parents as "selfish."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      7
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: cacio e pepe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        EarlyBird Oct 14, 2013 06:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Alas, there are mountains of data which prove that even children of successful, well-educated, single women choosing to have a child on their own are far more likely to score lower on indicators of happiness and life success, including doing more poorly in school and their careers, having lower self esteem, having a lesser ability to create and keep happy relationships, etc., compared to the child who is raised by both parents in the home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry. That doesn't make me self righteous; it makes me honest. Different choices, different environments, yield different results. I wish I could tell you that parenting didn't entail putting the child first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't rely on anecdotes. Do a thorough search of the literature on the internet. You will be buried in mountains of data supporting my position, and they are not all from Right Wing Christian Judger or something like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mcf Oct 14, 2013 06:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How do those compare to those widowed or abandoned who do not *choose* to raise children on their own?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            EarlyBird Oct 14, 2013 06:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Widowed is a bit different. Though the children have a hard time of it, the emotions are far different than children who are simply abandoned, either by one or both of the parents. Those who are abandoned have very significant problems, particularly boys. Even controlling for income, boys who never knew their father due to abandonment are at enormously greater risk of going to jail.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Getting back to the subject here, committed gay couples who want to get married and raise children does not seem to be a problem. It's not enough fathers in the house which is. If we want to create a happier, healthier world, we'd do better focusing on men not raising their children, or parents sort of going "meh" about sticking together for the sake of the children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mcf Oct 14, 2013 08:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So single mom by choice equates to abandonment?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Tom34 Oct 14, 2013 09:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I agree that missing fathers are a problem but in the grand scheme of things gays make up such a small percentage of fatherless family's I don't even know if my calculator would pick up the fractional percentage. I also suspect that most of the children gays adopt didn't have a caring father to begin with.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                An area of concern which does not apply to gays is how many extra bedrooms would have to be added if all the different fathers descended on the same mother's home at the same time. The next problem would be figuring out which kid belonged to which father.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: calumin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Justpaula Oct 10, 2013 03:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I agree. Simply because arguing that the children of any parents , regardless of sexual orientation, urban vs. suburban choosing parents, wealthy, middle class, or poor, free-range or helicopters, and on and on is a slippery slope. Let us just accept that any parent or parents can have an unending level of positive influence on their children and their childrens' happiness, or give their children only misery, or somewhere in-between. Sometimes (and as a parent of a toddler, this is what I fear most) you have no absolute control over how happy/successful/kind-hearted/"tolerant" your child will end up in life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hill food Oct 8, 2013 12:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    more successful? I doubt it, just sometimes more considered (face it little chance of 'oops!') and that is NO dis to the folks who try for years on other paths - I have seen and heard of the travails of some, the heartbreaks and the joys. it's tough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: hill food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tom34 Oct 8, 2013 12:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have often said if I had a pill that would cure what wrong with so many of today's youth's I would own my own tropical island. The inner city violence though is simply terrible. The total daily US casualty figures are on par or exceed 1968 - 1972 Vietnam war numbers. Its hard to believe we manage to kill each other at a higher rate than does the enemy during a period of war.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hill food Oct 8, 2013 04:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tom - there is a small island off Puerto Rico that I like and it's so inconvenient to get to to that basic crime is almost nil as outside of certain times of day - there's nowhere to go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      c oliver Oct 8, 2013 12:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You knock my socks off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 05:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The problem is that there is no evidence for him to base that statement on (we agree on this, right?). It is purely his opinion. There is no available alternative reason for his statement about gay adoption other than his own anti-gay views. Since there is no evidence, there is no hierarchy of values to think about, and there is no "anti-gay vs. pro-child" issue to consider. Therefore there is nothing for you to challenge the people you agree with. I hope my tone is not reading as unfriendly, just straightforward - I also enjoy a challenging discussion/debate from time to time and often come out having learned way more than I thought I knew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am glad you and I agree on this issue. It would be nice if everyone did, but I have to accept that they all don't...yet. However, "If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child" is a moot point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As Lingua said, it is an anti-gay and misguided notion. Period. Nothing to challenge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    EarlyBird Oct 7, 2013 05:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, we agree. I am just challenging people to think a bit deeper than "I'm pro gay, so I'm a good guy. I win." It is not bigoted to ask how gay couples rearing children could affect the children (for both better or worse).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I could never be as good a mother as a woman could be, and could never fully provide what a mother could provide to a child, because I'm a man. That fact doesn't mean that if I was gay and married that my husband I couldn't be wonderful parents, or that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But its incumbent upon us to be brutally honest with ourselves as we forward what LOOKS like, on the outside, a pretty radical societal change. It's okay for others to challenge and ask questions where others are impacted by gay couples' decisions - such as in child rearing - and we need to be ready to answer them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again we find: another reason NOT to fear gay marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 06:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I guess the thing that has many tail-feathers ruffled is that he didn't, as far as I know, question the impact gay parenting could have on adopted children. He flat out said he was against it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think had he made it a question, open for discussion, still implying what his preference is but open to the idea of it being "right" by him, if there is evidence to prove that there is no negative impact, then I don't think people would consider his comments as unquestionably bigoted. But, he didn't do that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Plus, there are a TON of "pro-gay" people who are definitely NOT "good guys". I think we all recognize that not being anti-gay does not make you a good person.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      jrvedivici Oct 7, 2013 06:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, I do believe your perspective is based upon your views as an American (I'm assuming) but as a non-Italian citizen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To keep things in context, gay adoption is illegal in Italy where both Barilla is from, and the audience to which he was addressing his statements. (He was on Italian radio).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So all this talk of potential statistics and verification of his point is sort of moot, since it's an illegal activity in the country he is from.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I would have to think his not condoning an activity which is illegal wouldn't be anti-gay nor pro-child, it's simply stating facts, views which are prevalent in his society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See this is where the waters get very murky for me. Most of the arguments here, both pro and con, are based on people from either the US or other countries where both gay marriage and or adoption is legal, in Italy neither are. So I think it's unfair for us to hold a debate or forge our opinions based on our more "liberal or progressive" views based on our society and our acceptance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (the illegal marriage and adoption policies of Italy are based on what someone else responded to me in this thread, I have not researched this first hand. I again don't agree with Barilla statements I just seem to be more "tolerant" because of the context and society which form his views. Ignorant yes, malicious.........I don't know)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Oct 7, 2013 06:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nobody here is trying to rewrite Italian law. We are simply expressing our distaste for Mr. Barilla's comments while also boycotting his product. Nothing more, nothing less.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't know how many times I (and several other posters here) need to repeat this really fairly simple idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          jrvedivici Oct 7, 2013 06:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lingua.....I'm addressing a new post/statement made by Justpaula which I do not think has/had anything to do with any other posts by you. I'm not sure why this should elicit a response from you which seems to be chastising me for sharing my thoughts, albeit repetitive to my other posts, with Justpaula and her "new" comments on this subject.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If I have violated some posting policy of Chow than I certainly apologize, however you nor any other posters need to remind me of your stance, I've read and heard it. My comment was directed towards Justpaula and her take on things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sorry if I have somehow offended you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Oct 7, 2013 06:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jr., I'm neither offended nor was I trying to chastise you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I simply replied to your particular point, which elicited a response from me -- just like other posts from other posters have done. As you will easily be able to see, I've been quite active on this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I should probably just unsubscribe now, as pretty much everything under the sun that could be said has been said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              jrvedivici Oct 7, 2013 06:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ok good and thank you for the response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It was Justpaula stating specifically;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I also enjoy a challenging discussion/debate from time to time and often come out having learned way more than I thought I knew."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that prompted me to actually post again, I'm well aware I have expressed my point several times in this thread. If it weren't for the fact I'm honestly so torn in my *opinion with regard to this I wouldn't keep asking the same question(s).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (*there is no supporting his views, just his actual motivation)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Be well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 06:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What is illegal in Italy is not the core issue here - although, I guess this discussion has veered a bit off course (and this bored, understimulated stay-at-home-mom who has enjoyed participating in this thread, is very grateful to the mods for allowing it continue).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The issue, as I see it, is the choice of those from the U.S. and other countries (and yes, Italy too) to choose other brands of pasta to spend their money on because of their own views on gay marriage and their disgust with Mr. Barilla's views - which are personal views, regardless of the legal status. I also imagine there are a large number of people in Italy who disagree with it being illegal there, just as there are a large contingent of Americans who are fighting tooth and nail to keep it from being recognized as a marriage equal to those between a man and a woman. No matter what, no matter what anyone thinks, the main issue is that it is okay to boycott Barilla pasta because of Mr. Barilla's comments - no matter what context they were made in. Likewise, I would not end a personal friendship with someone because they will still buy Barilla - that is their choice. While the core issue is: Will you or will you not continue to buy Barilla?, the debates and opinions expressed - among people in our culture and society - are still valid and quite interesting. However, it would be fun to gain some insight from several Italians on both sides of the issue!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            jrvedivici Oct 7, 2013 06:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I guess I should have stated more clearly the basis of my response to you was directed at this portion of your post;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "The problem is that there is no evidence for him to base that statement on (we agree on this, right?). It is purely his opinion. There is no available alternative reason for his statement about gay adoption other than his own anti-gay views."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is no evidence because it's illegal, his "opinion" is the law where he is, so isn't that an alternative reason for his statement?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was trying to play a bit of devils advocate to your statement is all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              linguafood Oct 7, 2013 07:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              People can and do disagree with laws all the time. The current drug laws in this country, for example, leave a lot to be desired.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just because something is "the law" at any given time (Jim Crow, anyone?) doesn't mean my opinion about the subject matter has to be d'accord with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Justpaula Oct 7, 2013 07:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Good question. I really don't know, because I am not in his head - and honestly, have not heard or read the entire transcript of the interview which may give me some context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The only thing I can say in defense of that portion of my post is that once upon a time, not so long ago, gay marriage was not legal anywhere in the U.S. Thankfully, many people did not accept its legal status as a reason to say it is wrong. This goes for many laws. Even performing fellatio on Sundays was once wrong in some states (although that may just be a legend). But, is anyone going to say it is wrong? ;) Voices that speak out against things that *they consider* bigoted, discriminatory, or wrong for whatever reason, are the ones who can affect (effect?) change - especially someone in a position of political or economical power. I am still going to assume he thinks it is wrong because of his personal feelings. That said, his culture, age, status, AND the fact that he may stand to lose a lot if he were to support gay marriage and adoption in a country where it is illegal must certainly inform his opinion. For these reasons I do not think he is a terrible person. But, I will still by my pasta from other companies - because, as c oliver pointed out, his personal views have dictated corporate policy. They aren't even interested in marketing their products to gay people and are fine with gay people buying "someone else's pasta". Okay. So will I.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I get you though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ratgirlagogo Oct 9, 2013 03:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  " Even performing fellatio on Sundays was once wrong in some states (although that may just be a legend)."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not a legend at all - oral of any kind and not just on Sundays.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_l...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  C. Hamster Oct 7, 2013 09:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Evidence is scientific.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Legality is an irrelevant point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: Justpaula
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  c oliver Oct 7, 2013 07:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's clear that his "personal views" have dictated corporate policy. And this why this discussion is here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Justpaula Oct 4, 2013 03:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Woweeee, "gay agenda"? Yikes. "Choosing to promote...the gay agenda"???? Double yikes!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe it is just me, but I have never considered giving equal human rights to homosexuals as a "gay agenda" to be "promoted".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do find someone saying the gay people do not make families and that gay people should not be allowed to adopt children to be not just intolerant, but flat-out bigoted statements. That said, everyone is entitled to have their own opinions and voice them, but when people disagree and choose to boycott your company because they think homosexuals should be guaranteed equal rights, well, I don't know, but I would not consider *that* intolerance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      BY the way there is a GIANT difference between wanting to project a "certain image of family" in your marketing vs. saying an entire segment of society does not even qualify as families as far as you are concerned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think Mr. Barilla has taught a lesson, whether he knows it or now, on how *not* to project a certain image of your company.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ttoommyy Oct 4, 2013 07:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What exactly is a "gay agenda?" Seriously.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          jrvedivici Oct 4, 2013 11:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not commenting on GH1618's use of the term, however the following quote from thimes below could certainly make it seem as if there could be a "gay/LGBT agenda";

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Wouldn't the world be a better place if straight people weren't so irresponsible with their reproductive parts :D It's just my opinion but straight people cause most of the problems in this world, i wish there were more laws restricting their behaviors, we'd all be better off. :D"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not blind and I know the ":D" is an indication of laughing/lightheartedness however turn that comment around towards the LGBT community and tell me how much weight the smiley face would hold then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As I said this in no way defends GH's comments, but don't kid yourself into thinking ignorant comments and views do not go both ways on this subject.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The quote above regardless which side it's coming from certainly paints a picture of an agenda, gay or straight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thimes Oct 4, 2013 11:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is the most rediculous post in this entire thread. I don't even know how to respond.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: thimes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              jrvedivici Oct 4, 2013 11:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's honestly exactly how I felt when I first read what you wrote. Completely inappropriate if you ask me, and if said in the opposite direction I would be appalled, smiley face or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              youareabunny Oct 5, 2013 04:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thimes just applied what LGBT face towards heterosexuals

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mcf Oct 4, 2013 11:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The way I understand it, it involves recruitment of school children and undermining the sanctity of my heterosexual marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So far, total fails. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Tripeler Oct 11, 2013 08:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This so-called "gay agenda" is a fabrication of the paranoia that accompanies homophobia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  speakhandsforme Oct 14, 2013 02:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Don't you know? We queers have a conference call every morning to discuss the schedule for the day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  9am - Public orgies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  11am - Brunch (duh)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1pm - Destroying the traditional family
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3pm - Bringing about the apocalypse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  5pm - Satanist chants

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: speakhandsforme
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    youareabunny Oct 14, 2013 03:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You forgot pageant hour

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: speakhandsforme
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hill food Oct 14, 2013 03:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      well that's not the conference call I lurk on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      9 AM is a rousing chant of "we are not amused"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      by 5 PM the satanists have become bored, gone away and it's the High Church Anglo-Catholics who take over and want to do Vespers they've painstakingly translated back into Latin or ugh, worse - Aramaic (why?).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: speakhandsforme
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        trolley Oct 14, 2013 10:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you forgot cocktails and dancing to house music at 8pm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: rrems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Leepa Sep 27, 2013 10:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps they mean they respect his right to his opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tom34 Sep 27, 2013 10:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can't help but think that someone who is preoccupied with what goes on in someone else's bedroom is very unsatisfied with what goes on in their own bedroom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      KaimukiMan Sep 27, 2013 12:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tom, this isn't about what goes on in their bedroom. It is about what goes on in their kitchen. And no, I'm not being obtuse. This is about respecting their lives, their whole lives. Not just a small part of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        girloftheworld Sep 28, 2013 02:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "preoccupied with what goes on in someone else's bedroom"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That is part of the problem homoSEXUAL how much of you life is spent in the bedroom? How much of what what you do goes beyond what the bible would condone? seeing as if it isnt married no divorce sex if is an abomination...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But you know what it is really about life out side the bedroom. it is about holding hands in the park. It is about being able to go to parent conference. Being able to celberate your wedding in the newspaper. Register for gifts. See a family like yours open chirstmas gifts in the montage for the Mall shopping season so your kid knows he isnt a freak. It is about the world inderstanding that around the dinner table there are all kinds families and when they sit down with love and respect for each eother they are making the world a better place.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HillJ Sep 28, 2013 02:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          truly girlofw, I have to remind myself that you are a young lady! I hope you don't mind me saying, such an (older) soul :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            girloftheworld Sep 28, 2013 03:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            :) I will take that as a complement. I am glad I have here to come and"talk" because it seem at school I get a lot weird looks and teachers who prentend not to see my hand

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ttoommyy Sep 28, 2013 06:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keep that hand raised, @girl!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ttoommyy Sep 28, 2013 02:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Being gay is NOT about what goes on in the bedroom. If that's what you think it is, then you need to reeducate yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tom34 Sep 28, 2013 01:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Maybe you should reeducate yourself by reading my other comments on this thread before you come to conclusions that are inaccurate. My point has been and continues to be that most of the people who preach or otherwise perpetuate "hatred" towards same sex relationships are usually deeply troubled people and their arguments more often than not evolve into "bedroom" talk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have relatives & friends who are both gay & lesbian and their relationships with my wife and I are no different in any way. As I have stated before, I think we are in the majority in how we feel and as time goes by that majority continues to grow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Tom34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              KaimukiMan Sep 29, 2013 09:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If my comments above contributed to people's misunderstanding of your personal position, I apologize.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Feed Me Sep 27, 2013 08:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you for posting this topic. I went onto the Barilla Facebook page. There is a real posting war going on. Ironically, Barilla pasta was on my table tonight. It was the last of what I had in the cupboard and I can guarantee you that it will not be replenished ever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are so many wonderful products out there. Why purchase something from a company led by a foul-mouthed bigot? Why should I turn my head? This may seem like a tiny act in the realm of history, but my culinary actions inform how I feel about the food that I produce. I'm glad he made that slip, so I now know to purchase elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If anything, a boycott sends a message to the world that a significant percentage of consumers will put their money where decency is preserved. There is a lot of hate in this world and the only thing we can do is try to make sure our actions, no matter how seemingly small, support human rights and equality for everyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Feed Me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            c oliver Sep 27, 2013 08:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I especially like your comment "the only thing we can do is try to make sure our actions support human rights equality, no matter how seemingly small." Thank you. That says it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Leepa Sep 27, 2013 08:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bertolli's response. Love it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            7
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Leepa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              c oliver Sep 27, 2013 08:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I understand that it WAY preceded Barilla's foot in mouth debacle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Leepa Sep 27, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps it did. Which is even better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Leepa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Sep 28, 2013 01:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LOVE it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. HillJ Sep 27, 2013 07:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here's one business owners reaction in New Jersey:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.app.com/article/20130927/N...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                btw, this news report comes on the same day reporters announce same sex marriage can start Oct 21 in NJ.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LINK LOCKED DISCUSSION
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ