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Barilla Pasta anti-gay comments

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09...

"For us, the 'sacral family' remains one of the company’s core values. Our family is a traditional family. If gays like our pasta and our advertisings, they will eat our pasta; if they don’t like that, they will eat someone else’s pasta."

I guess they will!

"I think we want to talk to traditional families. The women are crucial in this."

So he's not only anti-gay, but also sexist.

"I absolutely don’t respect adoptions in gay families, because that concerns a person who is not the people who decide."

"Barilla in its advertising has always chosen to represent the family because this is the symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone."

Make that "symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone," except gay people with children. Apparently, they don't count as families.

  1. Do you want to put them out of business with a good product because of their personal beliefs?

    47 Replies
    1. re: Veggo

      He said it himself: if you don't like it, don't eat it.

      Personal beliefs are one thing, corporate policy is another. If their corporate policy is that only legitimate family is one straight out of 1950, then maybe their business doesn't deserve to survive in the 21st century.

      1. re: Ruth Lafler

        I dunno, but I think products that have been popular for over 60 years are doing something right. How they vote is not an ingredient and is none of my business. CH is about food, not politics.

        1. re: Veggo

          Shame on barilla. This food business has lost my business.

          1. re: Veggo

            This board is about food in the media. Barilla makes food, and this story is in the media. As long as we discuss it civilly, it's on topic.

            1. re: Ruth Lafler

              Respectfully, I find your logic to be a convenient stretch.

              1. re: Veggo

                Oh please, there are, and have been, many, many heads on CH discussing the intersection of food and politics. Have you objected to everyone of them? If you don't like the topic, ignore it.

                1. re: Veggo

                  How many posts were there about Paula Deen being a racist? I don't see a difference!

              2. re: Veggo

                Many years ago Wendy's removed Ellen's commercials, I stopped eating Wendy's then. A few years ago Chik-Fil-A came out against gay rights, I stopped eating chick-fil-a (easy in Hawaii since we don't have any), and now Barilla has told me outright to go spend my money elsewhere. I'm glad to do so.

                If they go out of business, then that is their business. It is my business to not buy a product that has a company with a policy statement that affects me or people I support. Its almost before my time, but it seems to me there was something about a bus boycott some years back . . .

                1. re: Veggo

                  Sorry Veggo....
                  the food boards on Ch are about food, but media, not about food are open to comments on anything related to food and those in the business.

                  I for one vote with my pocketbook (not that I carry one, you've seen me pull my wallet out of my back pocket <VBG>. I wouldn't support a company such as Barilla who has political views far to the righ of mine, just as I woildn't spend a dime at Chik-Fil-A.

                  But, Barilla won't lose any of the business I give them, because I don't ever buy BOXED pasta--it tastes like cardboard. I only buy bagged made in Italy pasta.

                  And as for surviving more than 60 years? Lots of the brands of our youth are gone , swallowed up by the conglomerates. Growing up, you and I lived in an area where LaRosa, a NY regional brand was dominant, followed by Prince from Boston and Ronzoni--national. Today, the supermarket shelves are store label, Prince, Ronzoni, Barilla, and assorted 'local' Italian label imports. Even Creamettes from Borden's has disappeared. Occasionally there is a Mueller's siting.
                  But if we buiy 20+ lbs of pasta a month in our house not 1 cent is spent on Barilla...and now there is no chance that it will be in the future.

                  1. re: bagelman01

                    I respect your position, bagelman.

                    1. re: Veggo

                      But I'm not sure I respect yours, Veggo, even tho you're entitled to it. Can I assume that you are also anti-gay since you seem to be defending Barilla? I doubt a boycott would put him out of business just like Chik-fil-A is still around as well as Carl's jr.
                      My younger son is gay. Family and friends that have a problem with it are no longer family or friends.

                      1. re: mucho gordo

                        I'm not anti-anybody, including antipasta.

                        1. re: Veggo

                          antibodies are important-they keep us healthy

                          1. re: bagelman01

                            and antipasti is delicious

                  2. re: Veggo

                    Right. But shouldn't food be about food and not about politics? I cannot figure out why food manufacturers or dining establishments would ever choose to make a political statement like this. If they want us to appreciate their 60 years of good product, we will. But it is 2013, people DO make purchasing decisions based on many reasons. Barilla has chosen to make themselves a media issue, versus being nothing more than a company that produces boxed pasta that many people enjoy.

                    1. re: Justpaula

                      This is my "assumption" (yes I know what happens when we assume) this comment(s) by Barilla were made in response to a question posed to him on an Italian radio station.

                      My "assumption" is the gay rights issue(s) are not as hot topics or on the political radar in Italy as they are in the United States. So I think he made an off handed comment, which reflects his personal views, not really thinking of the global ears that were listening. I do not believe the LBGT movement has nearly the traction in Italy as it does here.

                      So I don't think Barilla chose to make a media issue of themselves. I don't think this was ever meant to be an "official" view of Barilla, has it become one, obviously yes.

                      AND AGAIN, I'm not supporting what he has said, just trying to provide some insight as to how something this stupid happened to begin with.

                      1. re: jrvedivici

                        Then maybe this is what will get people in Italy talking about it.

                        1. re: youareabunny

                          One never knows! History shows stranger things have happened.

                          1. re: youareabunny

                            Not too likely so do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen. My SO is Italian and they are far more likely to talk about Berlusconi than Barilla. ;-)

                            1. re: Fowler

                              Oh, you mean that heterosexual guy?......:)

                          2. re: jrvedivici

                            That or perhaps, arrogance, ignorance and certainly poor business acumen. Isn't Business 101 that everyone's money is green?

                            1. re: JAB

                              Isn't Business 101 that everyone's money is green?
                              _________________________________________
                              Except in Brazil! As the Simpsons discovered when Homer was kidnapped in Brazil...

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dGYni...

                      2. re: Ruth Lafler

                        Yeah, but . . . here's the full quote:
                        "For us, the 'sacral family' remains one of the company’s core values. Our family is a traditional family. If gays like our pasta and our advertisings, they will eat our pasta; if they don’t like that, they will eat someone else’s pasta. You can’t always please everyone not to displease anyone. I would not do a commercial with a homosexual family, not for lack of respect toward homosexuals – who have the right to do whatever they want without disturbing others – but because I don’t agree with them, and I think we want to talk to traditional families. The women are crucial in this."

                        The only corporate policy he's discussing is not portraying homosexual couples in his advertising campaigns. Given the kerfluffle the Cheerios commercial with the interracial couple caused, I can't really blame him.

                        1. re: gaffk

                          But he's saying he doesn't want to talk to "them" and if he doesn't then I don't want to support his company. I haven't checked but am willing to bet that Cheerios scored big, positive points with that ad. I think the way things change is with individuals speaking with their dollars. I've spoken.

                          1. re: c oliver

                            I love that Cheerios ad--the little girl and the dad are just adorable. I hadn't even heard about the kerfuffle about it before I saw the ad a few times.

                            While I try not to be knee-jerk in my responses to anything corporate (having done so too many times in the past), I also speak with my purchasing, puny a statement as that may be.

                            1. re: pine time

                              MY one puny statement multiplied by thousands can make a difference. And staying silent certainly isn't going to change anything. Yay for us :)

                              1. re: pine time

                                I believe most of the outrage was on YouTube comments. Similarly, outrage to Miss America was primarily on twitter.

                                Of course these aren't issues that people will march on the street for. But it's amazing how much hate and ignorance people are willing to spew behind a screen.

                            2. re: gaffk

                              If you read all the things he said, the bottom line is that they don't consider gay families to be real families. How that is not insulting or disrespectful I don't know.

                              As for the Cheerios "kerfluffle" -- the commercial is now being shown regularly. The fact that a few bigots made some noise about it is trivial in comparison to the positive press they've gotten for it.

                              1. re: gaffk

                                He also says they have the "right to do what they want," which to me dismisses being gay as a "lifestyle," rather than as an innate circumstance of someone's life.

                                I do buy boxed pasta, De Cecco or other Italian stuff usually, and hardly ever Barilla anyway … but I did sign the online petition. I don't think this counts as actual punishment, just a rebuke. And I think a necessary one.

                              2. re: Ruth Lafler

                                I have some Barilla pasta and some others. I don't consider this an issue that will affect my decision which pasta to buy one way or the other.

                              3. re: Veggo

                                This idiot has chosen to interject his personal beliefs into his business, so the consequences are his to bear. And frankly, their pasta is not that great to begin with.

                                1. re: pikawicca

                                  Yeah. Worth noting that they did poorly in the latest CI test; they're made in the US for the US market now, and are among those cutting their pasta with cheaper (non-semolina) durum flour.

                                  1. re: dtremit

                                    Barilla is based in Italy, and this statement was made on Italian radio. Their main market would be Italy, as far as I've heard. Just to bring a little perspective to the discussion. Maybe he doesn't mean US advertising at all, who knows?

                                    1. re: coll

                                      Maybe their main market is Italy, IDK. But, I've seen it in virtually grocery store's dried past section that i've ever been to.

                                      1. re: coll

                                        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07...

                                        Several years ago Barilla had sales in the US of $500 million. They owned 28% of the US market. And he never said he didn't mean the US market. Heaven knows, he's had plenty of opportunity.

                                    2. re: pikawicca

                                      From a business standpoint, such a statement may have been productive many years ago but I can't see it being beneficial today.

                                      There are many ways to support a belief without being disrespectful to others who do not share the same belief. I see no attempt to do so here.

                                    3. re: Veggo

                                      if the owner of a company walked up to you, spat in your face, called you a nasty name and then told you "if you don't like it, don't buy my products", would you consider it wrong to follow through? Why do I care if I put him out of business? He doesn't care if I buy it or not, said so himself.

                                      1. re: Veggo

                                        Personal beliefs?? Thats an understatement. Its not a secret that big companies have a tendency to use corporate money to control the tide of politics. Wal-mart and Chick-Fil-A have made donations to anti-gay organizations. I wouldn't be surprised if Barilla is doing the same. As another said, vote with your pocketbooks. You're not being "antipasta" because you're refusing to buy Barilla. You're being anti-hate.

                                        "I am not ignorant about gay people. And I will buy pasta."
                                        I HAVE WONDERFUL NEWS!!!! Barilla is only one of the MANY brands of pasta out there. Besides, DeCecco is better anyways.

                                        1. re: PrinceZuko

                                          De Cecco is MUCH better than Barilla (which I never buy, for reasons of so-so quality). Nobody is asking pasta makers to be anti-racist or anti-homophobia campaigners, just to keep their mouths shut and not insult their customers.

                                          1. re: PrinceZuko

                                            + 1

                                          2. re: Veggo

                                            oh yes, i do. if neo-nazis ran a bakery that made really good bread, would i want them to go out of business? yes i would.

                                            1. re: Veggo

                                              Yes.

                                              I threw my Barilla from my pantry into the trash and will never buy it again.

                                              1. re: C. Hamster

                                                So not to stir things up further, but if we're all up on the not disrespecting people bandwagon, isn't throwing away perfectly good food disrespectful to people who don't have enough to eat? Don't eat it, don't buy it, but wouldn't the gesture that best shows your love of your fellow humans be to bring it to a food pantry?

                                                I'm undecided on what to do with my 9-pack that I just bought from Costco. If I can find the receipt I'll bring it back (I have a satisfying mental image of piles of returned product sending a message to Costco). If I can't find it, I'll donate it and hope it finds its way to someone who needs food and doesn't have a problem with this brand.

                                                1. re: Chris VR

                                                  They will be able to swipe your card and find the purchase. Even if they can't, they'll still honor it but they prefer to find record, of course.

                                                  1. re: Chris VR

                                                    Returning and exchanging for a different brand would be the best ways to express your protest. Giving it to a food pantry promotes the product, even if the recipient is not paying for it.

                                                    1. re: Chris VR

                                                      Bring it to a local food bank, or a shelter/kitchen/church meal program so they can cook it and nourish those who are far less blessed (materially-speaking) than we are and who are too hungry and not even in the position to debate about the politics of food.

                                                      1. re: LotusRapper

                                                        yes, just don't buy more if this is the path one believes is right. if you return it who knows what happens, probably goes in the chucker and just the label sent back.

                                                        If so, give it anonymously to a food bank and write a letter to Barilla how many homeless and non-traditional kids are eating tonight without the benefit of a sacral family.

                                                2. Ruth, thank you for posting this. I'd seen it on FB. I've bought my last product from them. They're certainly entitled to their beliefs and I respect that. And I'm entitled to mine. And sometimes mine speak with the dollars I have to spend.

                                                  1. Barilla is crap anyway, and their asinine, shit values just drive that point further home for me. Now if DeCecco started hate mongering, I'd be in trouble.

                                                    1 Reply
                                                    1. re: charlesbois

                                                      I'll just have to make more pasta at home :)

                                                    2. I'm disappointed. I have been buying Barilla for years. I'm tired of all the ignorance about gay people. I guess it's time I learned to make homemade pasta.

                                                      2 Replies
                                                      1. re: Reston

                                                        Making pasta is a lot easier than selling out to someone like Barilla. IMO.

                                                        1. re: Reston

                                                          I am not ignorant about gay people. And I will buy pasta.

                                                        2. It strikes me that "food" is such a political hot potato once you venture beyond recipes. How food is grown, distributed, consumed, what's healthful or not, producers'/restaurant owners' personal beliefs and political campaign contributions... It's a can of worms.

                                                          1 Reply
                                                          1. re: pikawicca

                                                            but food is. Think of how food brings people together. New families meet around the dinner table and learn to respect their differences.... people " break bread" together. To say food is not political is ignoring the potential it has for healing great riffs among people. "quit arguing dinner is on the table" think how laughter around the table erases the differences and brings out the sameness.

                                                          2. Meh, I liken this to Chick-Fil-A. They're welcome to their own beliefs and customers are welcome to vote with their wallets. Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I respect their beliefs. I think they're wrong, but I respect their right to believe what they want in accordance with religious freedom. Until a company actually denies a person equal service based on sexual preference, I'm ok with them. And that hasn't happened yet.

                                                            1. There are some beliefs I don't and will never respect. And those pretty much always have to do with making anyone feel like less of a person because of something that they don't and can't control. Race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

                                                              No, I don't respect that because that does not deserve my respect. And hiding that belief behind "religious freedom" is especially loathsome. If you're going to be a homophobic ass at least just own up to it.

                                                              8 Replies
                                                              1. re: Violatp

                                                                "i hate the word 'homophobia'. it's not a phobia. you are not scared. you are an asshole." --incorrectly attributed to morgan freeman, actually a humorous tweet riffing on his role as god in "bruce almighty"

                                                                1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                  Both terms are inappropriate, in my opinion.

                                                                  1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                    I've always hated that word also for its inaccuracy. "Homoloathing" might be better.

                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                      heterocentrist

                                                                      1. re: KaimukiMan

                                                                        that's a good one. not without flaws but more accurate.

                                                                    2. re: chartreauxx

                                                                      Why do people who hate certain words, use them on the same thread? The word is homophobes.

                                                                      1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                        Ah, excellent point. I retract "homophobic ass" and replace it with, hmm...will need to ponder that.

                                                                        1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                          Actually, the comedian Keith Lowell Jensen came up with this (credit where credit is due):

                                                                          https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...

                                                                      2. He doesn't want to feature gay families in commercials. I can't think of any commercial featuring gay families, unless I missed something, which is quite possible.

                                                                        24 Replies
                                                                        1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                          What, JC? Not food ads (yet) but,
                                                                          JC Penney's Father's Day tv ad featuring two dads & their kids (after the Ellen "controversy")
                                                                          Levi's jeans featured two men checking each other out
                                                                          Kindle Paperwhite commercial for Amazon features a straight & a gay couple on the beach..

                                                                          This ain't about pasta!

                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                            Like I said, it's possible I missed something, which I obviously did. During commercials I'm usually checking out Chowhound, or the local rag, Houston Chronicle, or sports websites. Then when I go over on reading I just rewind the show, skipping commercials. Gotta wish Penney's luck, they are in serious trouble, don't remember seeing any recent commercials. Hope for the best with their employees.

                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                              dont forget
                                                                              Amtrack
                                                                              Ikea
                                                                              Absloute Vodka
                                                                              Rayban
                                                                              Gap

                                                                              1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                Do you mean Amtrak, the nationalized passenger trains? Don't remember seeing them, is this in print or tv? I need to bounce this off the railroad forums I frequent.

                                                                                1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                  Yes, Amtrak:

                                                                                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08...

                                                                                  And Frito Lay, Nabisco, Target, Chevrolet, etc.

                                                                                  1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                    You are right, I just looked it up. Now get to bed, it's a school night, where I live anyway.

                                                                                    http://www.metroweekly.com/elsewhere/...

                                                                                    1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                      You beat me to the punch, as I just replied to myself instead of girloftheworld.

                                                                                    2. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                      It was a print ad It featured a family with two well dressed yuppie looking dads and their little boy and it said Priceless Family Moments Now Afordable "ride with pride" then talked about the adventure and comfort of travleing by train I cant remember what magazine I saw it in it may have been in Condnast...or one of those that my grandfather gets to book trips through

                                                                                      1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                        We crossed wires. I posted a link to the ad. See above.

                                                                                    3. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                      Didn't forget :) I just didn't want to overstep the point.

                                                                                      For me, this announcement is not about pasta. The story happens to involve a company that sells pasta. It makes me sick but I don't fight back with more hate.

                                                                                      1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeApyT...

                                                                                        My son sent me this food ad by Bertolli. Clearly yesterday's statement by Barilla is out of step with reality.

                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                          That's fantastic!!! Gotta try Bertolli now. Thank you son for me please.

                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                            There is no "One shoe fits all" when it comes to advertising and clearly Bertolli realizes that. What sells a product in one regional market may not be effective in another which is why you don't allow personal beliefs (either way) to influence marketing campaigns that have millions of dollars of research supporting them.

                                                                                            1. re: Tom34

                                                                                              Tom I remain surprised by how little companies follow the outcomes. This is hardly the first time a company's made a statement that took a cheap shot out of: belief.

                                                                                              There is no one fits all for life. Thank god for that.

                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                "There is no one fits all for life" .....Yeah, thank God.

                                                                                                Seems illogical that true haters who are in an "extreme minority" would embrace an Orwell 1984 type society as depending on who is in charge they may be one of the first groups to go :-)

                                                                                          2. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                            Thanks girloftheworld, I'd like to point out that many brands have learned over time that the LGBT community is very brand loyal to those that embrace them. Absolute Vodka is a perfect example of a company that has reached out to the LGBT community and has reaped rich rewards. That said, Absolute isn't the only one benefiting, I can say that when I was a young Gay man same sex friendly advertisements by companies like Levi's and Absolute made me feel a little less of a pariah. I could look out into the world and see reflections of myself in the media.

                                                                                            Those reflections were mostly of attractive male couples in levis jeans drinking absolute vodka, not a bad thing, but not the only type of LGBT person out there.

                                                                                            If a company like Barilla decided to features a same sex family with kids enjoying their product I'll bet the LGBT community would add them to their list of Gay friendly brands they happily consume, to the benefit of Barilla. Plus young LGBT people would begin to see positive family based reflections of themselves in the media that surrounds them.

                                                                                            Everyone wins!

                                                                                            Now all Barilla has done is propagate the idea that there is something abnormal about non traditional families. Well Barilla, I have news for you, I think there is something wrong and abnormal about you.

                                                                                            1. re: delys77

                                                                                              delys - and as many forget: those deemed outsiders are constantly looking for a hint or an invitation or even just a simple acknowledgement. that's all.

                                                                                              note to manufacturers: outsiders DO read between lines and decode media messages to a degree that would never register with the general public.

                                                                                              1. re: hill food

                                                                                                hill food, as usual, you expressed this very well. I'm white and straight. I will NEVER know what it's like to be otherwise. But I'm female so I can kinda guess how bad it can be. But women aren't outsiders the way people of color and homosexuals are. We're not hated and feared. When "those deemed outsiders" get that invitation, it's got to be a pretty big deal. Consumer-wise I sure know where I'd be spending my money. And not.

                                                                                                1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                  oh c o (honorary one of us) - but some people DO hate and fear women. that's kind of (kind of?) no, that IS the scary part.

                                                                                                  1. re: hill food

                                                                                                    Oh, I know. Misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century.

                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                      and misanthropy - just cause I distrust folks of all genders doesn't mean I get left out OK?

                                                                                                    2. re: hill food

                                                                                                      actually on a re-read (I can't help myself) what I said about women could be seen as a dis. as women CAN be fierce when they want/need to be. it's just on a regular daily basis I feel there's little need to fear anyone.

                                                                                                  2. re: hill food

                                                                                                    Most definitely, feeling included is a great thing.

                                                                                                  3. re: delys77

                                                                                                    delys - early lesson - Harvey Milk worked that angle so much it was YEARS before a Coors product was ever found in a gay bar anywhere in the US.

                                                                                                    part politics, part business, part blindness, part perseverance (on all sides)

                                                                                            2. Good for them.

                                                                                              1. I find nothing wrong with the comments.

                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: ipsedixit

                                                                                                  Didn't you used to be in a Geico commercial?

                                                                                                  1. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                    Nope.

                                                                                                2. People actually watch commercials still? I just fast forward past them.

                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                    that is what you think,, but your mind is still picking up all that subliminal slush....wait I suddenly want to order a snuggie..

                                                                                                    1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                      I mute them.

                                                                                                      1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                        I swear, many commercials are way better than the TV shows they interject.

                                                                                                        1. re: LotusRapper

                                                                                                          heh - back when MTV actually showed music videos (commercials really) they should have commissioned 30 second short narratives to play between the silliness.

                                                                                                      2. You know I don't get... Whenever someone says something bigoted, people yelling how they are going to a support a company twice as much once they say something bigoted. It's like discrimination makes you wanna eat more chicken

                                                                                                        1. As long as Barilla stays out of politics and doesn't fund anti-gay marriage organizations, Im fine with it. For now they're just words, and Barilla hasn't done anything. Until then, I'll respect his beliefs. But if words become actions, thats when i'll respond with an action of my own and refuse to buy their products.

                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                          1. re: PrinceZuko

                                                                                                            But they have taken action. The action of only using straight people in their ads. And talking about it.

                                                                                                          2. Barrilla USA released an apology

                                                                                                            http://americablog.com/2013/09/barill...

                                                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                                                            1. re: rozz01

                                                                                                              They're sorry that they lost money. I dont believe that apology at all. I say they get rid of their CEO like Mens Wearhouse did to their founder (aka the guy who says...You're gonna like the way you look.) Hes only a publicity nightmare for them now. Do whats best for their stockholders.

                                                                                                              1. re: PrinceZuko

                                                                                                                Yeah, like the kid who says he's sorry. Sorry for what he did or sorry he got caught.

                                                                                                            2. I guess he thinks only gay people care about the quality of human rights.

                                                                                                              LOTS of people make pasta. You can even make your own. You don't need to support people who don't support other people.

                                                                                                              14 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: rainey

                                                                                                                I grew up in the South in the 50s and 60s. I'm white. I was and am passionate about human rights. All humans.

                                                                                                                1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                  So how do you feel about Betty Crocker using only white women to represent the company?

                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                    Since General Mills has both Cheerios and Betty Crocker, I suspect if that's true the times will be a changin'. BTW I'm not sure if I've ever bought a Betty Crocker product so haven't seen this.

                                                                                                                    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_16...

                                                                                                                    1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                      Actually:

                                                                                                                      "For her 75th anniversary in 1996, a nationwide search found 75 women of diverse backgrounds and ages who embody the characteristics of Betty Crocker. A computerized composite of the 75 women, along with the 1986 portrait of Betty, served as inspiration for the painting by internationally know artist John Stuart Ingle."

                                                                                                                      1. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                                        Very cool!

                                                                                                                        1. re: carolinadawg

                                                                                                                          I read that too, when I looked up the portraits. You didn't post a link to the portrait, which portrays yet another white woman of a certain age. That's the image of Betty Crocker and they're sticking with her (as they should). Not that I buy much of the BC brand, but sometimes I do and it doesn't bother me that BC does not acknowledge that men can cook as well. It just doesn't matter whether the demographic of a product's advertising includes me or not.

                                                                                                                          1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                            It may look like a"white woman of a certain age" to you, but the company has said it is the composite portrait of "75 women of diverse backgrounds and ages".

                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                              That's a slightly different issue. Betty Crocker is a logo with a single human image that has been used for decades. Logos by their very nature do not change, or not significantly. Ads are a different matter, since new ads showing a variety of people and scenes are made on an ongoing basis.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                They have changed the face of Betty Crocker over the years. Last being, I want to say, maybe 15 years ago or so.

                                                                                                                                It has always been a white woman. They say the current image is a composite, but looks pretty white to me!

                                                                                                                                About time for a change there, too!

                                                                                                                                1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__c...

                                                                                                                                  1. re: LotusRapper

                                                                                                                                    Latest image is from 1996. Do they even use the face anymore? I have a few brownie mixes and there's no face, just the spoon.

                                                                                                                                    I think she started off as a white woman and will always remain one out of familiarity. Kind of like aunt jemima.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                      Aunt Jemima is running for VP alongside Kerry in the 2016 ballot ;-)

                                                                                                                                      1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                        Aunt Jemima is still African-American, of course, but she has changed a lot over the years.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: lagatta

                                                                                                                                          Exactly. She now looks like a school counselor.

                                                                                                                      2. I especially like that "as long as they aren't bothering anybody" part.

                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                        1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                          Yeah, usually a statement like that goes along with "as long as they don't wave it in my face". Like saying something like "my husband". Or, you know, holding hands or something.

                                                                                                                        2. why would anybody even ask a pasta maker for their stand on gay rights?

                                                                                                                          I really can't tell much difference between the brands of dried pasta. now fresh pasta, that's a whole different kettle of, umm, noodles.

                                                                                                                          if he wanted to give a reason for not including images of gay families, he should have just said something to the effect of the demographic being too small to warrant the money spent... (quite plausible w/o being offensive)

                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                          1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                            Or open-ended, "it's a possibility." I think a commercial with a same sex couple would be more welcomed in the USA, France than in Italy or Russia, per se

                                                                                                                            I suppose they were asked now that some states and countries are trending towards LGBTQ acceptance. A 'who stands where' sort of thing. As a business owner I'd keep as neutral as possible, and keep my beliefs among my friends and family.

                                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                              yep. it's interesting maybe 8 or 10 years ago a media analyst was looking at liquor and cigarette ads and catalogued the ambiguous sexuality in many (usually 2 guys sitting side by side and a gal across the way all laughing in a glamorous, fabulous oceanside setting) and posited it allowed the potential consumer to read in whatever narrative they wanted.

                                                                                                                              for Barilla in a similar vein I can imagine a scenario of 5 parent figures (split 2/3 gender-wise) and a gazillion kids of mixed-heritage all making dinner and having a grand old time. 2 couples and a single parent ? an aunt/uncle? 1 couple and doting friends and family? and who is with who? and who cares or would really pick up on it (after all it is just a stupid 30 second commercial).

                                                                                                                              it would definitely read as a fun food-loving extended family and what's more pro-family food than that?

                                                                                                                          2. I checked my pantry - 3 boxes of Barilla linguini. At my Publix markets, Barilla is the pasta brand with the most shelf space, and the only brand that frequently is buy one get one free. Works for me.

                                                                                                                            1. It will be interesting to see if this effects their sales. Will the homophobes buy more just to make their hateful point?

                                                                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                I think the number of true homophobes who are fixated on the private lives of others and actually tailor their their spending habits to such beliefs are fewer than most people think.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                  Tom, I agree, and I don't think there are many "homophobes" at all, if you examine the meaning of the word. There are people with different propensities who truly don't give a rat's ass what others do in private. This does not translate to fear or hate. I don't thump my chest and crow about my social correctness in a supermarket pasta isle or on Chowhound.

                                                                                                                                2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                  They did with chick fil a

                                                                                                                                3. Makes perfect sense to boycott Barilla if you disagree with what he said.

                                                                                                                                  I haven't bought a Heinz product in years.

                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                  1. re: sal_acid

                                                                                                                                    I just emailed Safeway, our big grocery chain in this area, telling them that I and many friends will no longer buy the brand and asking what they intend to do about it. That I currently do the bulk of my shopping at Safeway but will be looking to see who does what. I was just having a discussion recently with a CH-friend about the fact that change happens when individuals take action. We'll see.

                                                                                                                                  2. i am female, my partner is male, we are both foodies, and we will both be voting with our dollars on this issue. just as i refuse to buy products from wal-mart (abusive and exploitative labor practices, vicious and community-eroding business practices, their political donation portfolio, and more), abercrombie and fitch (pro-eating disorder advertising, blatant sizeism, racism, religious discrimination, and more), lululemon (sizeism, pro-eating disorder imagery and sizing, and more), urban outfitters (sexism, racism, religious discrimination, pro-eating disorder imagery, and more), american apparel (sexualization of underage models, pro-eating disorder imagery, sizeism, numerous rape allegations against ceo, and more)... so too will i be voting with my dollars on the barilla issue.

                                                                                                                                    barilla, like any of the other companies i do not patronize, is free to do as they wish, but i will not knowingly spend my money to subsidize policies of bigotry and hate.

                                                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                                                    1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                                                                                      You are my hero and role model! Thanks for walking the walk.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                                                                                        Whole Foods is on my list - ever since their asshat of a CEO decided to stick his nose into the healthcare debate, I've yet to set foot in one (except to use the bathroom, and maybe eat a free sample). They have some great stuff, but though I love food, I also love spite.

                                                                                                                                      2. Tsk Tsk -- talk about being sensitive. Barilla makes good stuff. Their person beliefs are none of my business.

                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                        1. re: beevod

                                                                                                                                          He was not expressing his personal belief. He was acting as spokesman for the company in his professional capacity. And it is not the fault of people who were offended that his statements were intolerant.

                                                                                                                                        2. Am I the only one that read his retraction and apology?

                                                                                                                                          I always find it curious when groups who want to preach about acceptance immediately call to arms against those who have different views then theirs. Please accept us; however we reserve the right to not accept you for not agreeing with us.

                                                                                                                                          I think it’s just a sign of our arrogance as a nation (I'm from the US) to think the world has to agree with our views. I personally live by the “live and let live” philosophy and I certainly can understand how and why people find his comments hurtful and ignorant. However not all of the world views homosexuality in the same light as we do. I don’t know firsthand what Italy’s over all views are, but certainly this individual is welcome to his belief’s, he has also apologized and perhaps realized just how ignorant his statements were in the first place. Are we all above forgiveness?

                                                                                                                                          I do not agree with this rush to boycott their products. Let me ask everyone here, how many of you are boycotting all Russian products? The Russian Government has practically made homosexuality illegal, literally a punishable crime to speak or acknowledge homosexuality at all. Where are the outcries to boycott everything Russian? Russia is leading our foreign policy like a puppy on a leash, and yet I don't see protests over our sudden allegiance to their foreign policy. (even though I do agree with their intervention on Syria) Seems kind of hypocritical to me to boycott someone for their words, but not a country for their laws and actions.

                                                                                                                                          I won’t boycott their products, I will hope this person realizes how hurtful his words were and I hope he will think before he speaks next time. I will choose to respect his opinions, even if they differ with mine, and when the tables are turned, I would hope someone would respect my opinion when it differs with their own.

                                                                                                                                          Live and let live, eat, drink and be well my friends.

                                                                                                                                          71 Replies
                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                            Speaking of drinking, numerous gay bars are boycotting Russian vodka.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                              Well I wouldn't really know too much about what goes on there. lol

                                                                                                                                              However I 100% COMPLETELY support them.

                                                                                                                                              I'm honestly in shock that in today's day and age Russia would put into place the policy's they have and there hasn't been nearly as big of a back lash as I would have expected.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                I was wondering when Russia would enter this thread. I'm half Russian and the government's remarks are very hard for me.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                  So do I.

                                                                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                  I can't even think of anything Russian that I've bought in the whole 2 decades I've been a consumer. A bit hard to boycott

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                    the apology was half-assed at best, and certainly didn't seem sincere. it contained nothing of substance, such as a promise to adopt a more inclusive policy going forward.

                                                                                                                                                    moreover, while i agree in principle about cultural colonialism, i must respectfully disagree with you about how far that tolerance for difference extends.

                                                                                                                                                    i didn't look at the now-infamous new delhi rape case and go, "oh that's ok, indian culture is different than american culture, live and let live!". to me, it's the same thing here; italian culture is welcome to be as different as they please from american culture, and that *still doesn't excuse* bigotry. i avoid russian products wherever i can (that is, any time i am aware a product is russian in origin or production), and won't be watching the sochi olympics due to russia's anti-gay policies; i likewise won't be buying barilla pasta due to their anti-gay policies.

                                                                                                                                                    you are fully entitled to your opinion, but i would be compromising my personal values were to i adopt that opinion as my own.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                                                                                                      "limp wristed?"

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: 9lives

                                                                                                                                                        !!!!

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: 9lives

                                                                                                                                                          whoa, good catch! i had never, EVER looked up the slang connotation of the term. i was operating from this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio..., using the 2nd definition (weak).

                                                                                                                                                          1) how embarrassing, and 2) thanks for the catch! i've changed it in my post to a more appropriate (and less revolting) phrase for what i meant.

                                                                                                                                                          thank you for making me aware!

                                                                                                                                                        2. re: chartreauxx

                                                                                                                                                          Let's please not try and compare someones ignorant comments regarding their belief's and the actual act of raping a woman. I don't find that to be a reasonable comparison.

                                                                                                                                                          Not meaning to argue with your over all point, I again respect that, I just don't see comparison you used.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                            in no way do i want to start a fight with you, and i appreciate your calm and balanced demeanor.

                                                                                                                                                            i can see where you're coming from on the rape issue; however, to me, rape culture is by its nature a phenomenon that is made possible by the cultural marginalization of women.

                                                                                                                                                            likewise, the issue of human rights as regards sexual orientation depends on the marginalization of gay people.

                                                                                                                                                            the murder of matthew shepard in wyoming in 1998 would be an anti-gay corollary to the 2012 delhi rape and murder. marginalization and discrimination provide ripe soil for dehumanization of the target group, which opens the door for some pretty vicious, nasty stuff.

                                                                                                                                                            just my opinion. and it's from that position that i'm boycotting barilla in light of recent events.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: chartreauxx

                                                                                                                                                              There is no fight to be had because the bottom line is we both really agree on the main issue(s). It's just the actions or extent we are willing to go to prove our "point" is where we perhaps differ.

                                                                                                                                                              No matter how fundamentally different someone's opinion can be to mine, I try to never judge nor discount their view. I'm a HUGE believer in dialog and think the only way to change someones fundamentally different opinion is through discussion.

                                                                                                                                                              This whole "boycott" won't change this persons view at all. If anything it will most likely make them resent those boycotting their product even more. I believe discussion, education and understanding over time, is the only thing that will help someone change or open their views.

                                                                                                                                                              But like you, this is just my opinion based on my personal experiences in life. I might not be right, I might not be wrong, but as long as I keep trying, I think I'm moving in the right direction.

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                              While I can see where you might be coming from jrvedivici please think of the fact that suicide rates amongst gay youth are far higher than that for straight youth. I'm not a child psychologist but I can say from my own experience that growing up surrounded by people and media that say hateful things about who you are has a cumulative effect. This individuals words won't drive anyone to suicide, but the continuous messaging heard on all fronts from pulpits, media sound bites, parents, "friends" that debase and make you feel like an other can be crushing for some.

                                                                                                                                                              Of course rape is a horrible thing, but I believe we have to own up to the fact that for LGBT youth this man's comments are just added to the pile of reprehensible things that make you feel like you have no worth. The ultimate expression of these types of opinions is pretty much a form of abuse, abuse that can destroy lives.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: delys77

                                                                                                                                                                Only if you let it......an old movie quote: "Don't give the prick the satisfaction". Honestly, as a straight w/m, IMHO the views expressed by this individual are not that of the masses.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: delys77

                                                                                                                                                                  delys - I _certainly_ understand where you're coming from, but I can't help but feel that engagement is more effective than confrontation. trickier, FAR trickier but a more stable foundation.

                                                                                                                                                                  yet I have to admit, I have managed to create a certain 'bubble' and easily forget that there is still widespread mindless hate for all sorts out there.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know Hill, I think in certain parts of the Country there are significant numbers of people who don't approve who are influenced by their religion but overall it seems their stances are softening with each new generation.

                                                                                                                                                                    As for the true haters, usually they have deep rooted emotional problems, hate many different groups of people and deep down probably hate themselves. Fortunately their numbers seem to be few and many of the worst are already on the Gov radar.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                      Tom: and that of the Southern Poverty Law Center...

                                                                                                                                                                      I'm staying for now in rural no-neck country where even a high school education is still not a 'given'. and things are FAR more cool than I could have expected. still has quite a ways to go, but...

                                                                                                                                                                      it's hard to parse prejudice. if I had grown up here and my family had as well for four generations back, I could strut down the street wearing low-heeled sling-back mules and a corsage on my overalls as I'd be THEIR queer and screw any outsider who messes with my cousin. when it's personal and family or old friends it's somehow different in some small way.

                                                                                                                                                                      it's interesting as more folks are seeing the same satellite TV now (when I was a kid we had 3 spotty channels) and have a more worldly perception. nothing's changing tomorrow, yet...

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                        I remember those spotty channels as well as having to get up and change the channel.

                                                                                                                                                                        Most of my time in the deep South was / is spent traveling RT 95 to major destination points so I will confess I know little or nothing about the folks in the rural areas.

                                                                                                                                                                        I do think its ironic though that after wasting the best years of his life hating, Gov Wallace changed his tune somewhat.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                          Yep. Even we backward native Southerners have the capability of evolving. We even wear shoes sometimes. :)

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Leepa

                                                                                                                                                                            even in summer?

                                                                                                                                                                            I shouldn't be so flippant, I'm in a border state, that is very idiosyncratic, so doesn't have the identity that some hold (we're really 4 regions that meet)

                                                                                                                                                                            but it is interesting how things are loosening up out here in 'Hillbilly Holler'

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Leepa

                                                                                                                                                                              Them shoes can go to hell!

                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                              Perchance suggesting we use Guido Barilla for target practice? After all, thats what it took with George Wallace. But yes, people can and do change. When I see a gay-friendly barilla ad on TV, I'll reconsider.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                          Both are necessary. Confrontation often opens the pathway toward engagement. Kind of like the synthesis of ACT UP vs. more mainstream HIV care lobbying efforts. They didn't agree, dissed each other at times, but each benefited from the other, as one example.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                            it's true that contrary voices do need to be heard - and at ACT-UP's most vocal time, without vitriol and effort they weren't. I saw first hand the results of the Reagan 'legacy' in regards to HIV when I lived in SF.

                                                                                                                                                                            maybe I'm deluded, but I like to think those tactics are no longer necessary. or at least not as often.

                                                                                                                                                                            still seems silly to tell a reasonable market share to go f-off.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                              It's both short sighted and small minded.

                                                                                                                                                                              Both styles of advocacy are still necessary, particularly by those to easily or chronically ignored.

                                                                                                                                                                              I'd be on the quieter, more analytical side but without the sneer at the fringes.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                we have to always look for the right tool in the drawer I says I says.

                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                    I boycott Russian products (in this case vodka, since I can't think of anything else Russian I buy) for that very reason.

                                                                                                                                                                    Disagreeing with somebody's PUBLIC statements and boycotting them for that reason has nothing to do with arrogance.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                      The thing Is that he *didn't* retract his statement or apologize. He said, and this is a direct quote, “I apologize if my words have generated controversy or misunderstanding, or if they hurt someone’s sensitivity.”

                                                                                                                                                                      So he didn't apologize for what he said. He apologized that people were upset by it. It's called blaming the victim, and it's a classic non-apology apology. It's not fault of the people who were offended, it's his fault for being a bigot.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                        Jon, as always welcome to the party!

                                                                                                                                                                        I don't know why you seem to like to play the selective copy paste game, however please explain to me how this is not a direct apology and or retraction;

                                                                                                                                                                        Guido Barilla
                                                                                                                                                                        "With reference to my statements made yesterday to the mosquito, I apologize if my words have led to misunderstandings or controversy, and have bumped the sensibilities of some people.

                                                                                                                                                                        For clarity I would like to point out that I have the deepest respect for any person, without distinction.

                                                                                                                                                                        I have the utmost respect for homosexuals and for freedom of expression to anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                        I also said and repeat that respect marriages between persons of the same sex."

                                                                                                                                                                        That seems like a pretty direct retraction to me.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                          Unfortunately you played the same game! The last line reads:

                                                                                                                                                                          "Barilla in its advertising has always chosen to represent the family because this is the symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone."

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: nsenada

                                                                                                                                                                            But not a gay family. Right? And we must have the little woman there also. Right? I understand that Italy isn't the US but they are a multi-billion dollar a year corporation so I'm going to hold them to a little higher standard than the corner grocer.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: nsenada

                                                                                                                                                                              Our (Jon and I) previous context was strictly regarding the apology/retraction aspect of his comments, so my copy paste was limited to that.

                                                                                                                                                                              I don't see how what you posted fits into that specific topic.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                It may be the bad translation, but as C. Oliver points out, I interpret "family" to mean "heterosexual-couple-led-family," as this has been how they have "always" represented the family in their ads. If that was his intention, it definitely doesn't make him look like he was "misunderstood" at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: nsenada

                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with you completely but that isn't what my comments above were directed towards at all. It's hard in forums like this to keep "on topic", sorry if I confused or mislead.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                  Here's the full text of the apology:

                                                                                                                                                                                  "Regarding my comments at the radio program La Zanzara, I [apologize] if my words generated misunderstandings or controversy or if they hurt some people's feelings. In the interview I just wanted to underline the centrality of the woman's role in the family. To be clear, I just want to specify that I do have great respect of every person, without any kind of distinction. I do respect gay people and everybody's freedom of expression. I also said I do respect gay marriage. Barilla in its advertising has always chosen to represent the family because this is the symbol of hospitality and affection for everyone."

                                                                                                                                                                                  As you can see, you copy and pasted it without the last sentence, which leads to the obvious conclusion that:

                                                                                                                                                                                  if their advertising shows "the family," and
                                                                                                                                                                                  they will not show gay families,
                                                                                                                                                                                  then
                                                                                                                                                                                  gay families are not real families

                                                                                                                                                                                  This is particularly obvious when read in the context of his original remarks stating that gay couples should not be allowed to adopt children -- all of his follow-up statements acknowledge that gays should be allowed to marry, but do not address the adoption issue, which is what people found offensive in the first place.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                    Ruth, let me say once again, I'm not supporting this guy in the least. I didn't copy paste that last portion because I was strictly trying to address the apology portion of his quote. I left the last sentence off intentionally because it had nothing to do with his apology.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                      How can it have "nothing to do with his apology"? It was part of the statement. He clearly meant it as part of his apology in that it was intended to explain why he said what he said.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                        Ok, shoot me! To me at the time I copied it didn't directly pertain, to you it does. If it's that important to you I have no problem with it, I stand corrected!

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                          It's just that you were accusing other people of cutting and pasting selectively, which you in fact were doing when you took it upon yourself to decide which part of the statement had "nothing to do" with the apology.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I think you owe Jon Parker an apology. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                            If Mr. Parker wanted to sit down and have a cocktail I would gladly buy him a drink, hell I'll buy him as many drinks as he can have in a night. We can debate and discuss any and all of the worlds problems and dilemma's and how we will solve them all.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Other than that Ms(rs). Lafler, I suggest you don't hold your breath. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                              You wouldn't say that if you knew how much I can drink.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                I said it and I mean it! That also sounded like a challenge! Bring it on Mr. Parker! Come on down to central Jersey, the first annual Chow drink-a-debate!

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Can I come too

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is always room for one more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you need an audience -- perhaps to ask questions. Or a moderator let me know. I'm not far away and a cocktail sounds good.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                        He says " If " I hurt... I think hes aware that it's not an " if ".

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                    He never directly says that he knows that his statement was intolerant. The apology part of his post definitely blames others for being hurt by what he said. Someone who had respect for gays would not have made that statement in the first place, and i see no indication that he had any purpose in his non-apology other than trying to tame down the controversy.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                      "After its first apology, Barilla posted a second, more contrite version on its U.S. Facebook page several hours later that recognised that it may have offended some

                                                                                                                                                                                      While we can't undo recent remarks, we can apologise. To all of our friends, family, employees, and partners that we have hurt or offended, we are deeply sorry," it read.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Really Jon? That seems like a pretty complete apology to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                        I agree that it's an improvement, but in order of preference here is what I would hope any CEO with a lick of sense would do:

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Don't make bigoted remarks in the first place.
                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Apologize completely and with an admission of wrongdoing.
                                                                                                                                                                                        3. Post a second apology because your PR dept. points out how inadequate your first one is.

                                                                                                                                                                                        And again, he never says "my statement was wrong and intolerant." He apologizes for making other people feel hurt. An apology that doesn't contain an admission of wrongdoing and focuses on other people's feelings rather than your own behavior isn't enough. It's better, but I still won't buy their product.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I would hope any CEO with a lick of sense would do"

                                                                                                                                                                                          That's a pretty big leap of faith my friend.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Again I don't disagree with you at all. The guy is ignorant, he has proven that so you can't expect much for more than he is capable of providing.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Perhaps in time he can see the error of his ways and come around. That's my hope.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                            And one good way to make him come around see the error of his ways is to kick him in his wallet.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                          That statement was from the US subsidiary, not Mr. Barilla who made the remarks and represents the parent company.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                        Not a retraction but a clarification, because he didn't say that he lacked respect for gays in the first place. He said only that he wouldn't use a gay family in the company's advertising.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                          At this point, what he ACTUALLY said and what he ACTUALLY meant no longer matters to the international audience following along; it no longer matters to his family brand and company employees. What he said is now hours ago and the larger focus has changed within those hours. What he said has been taken out of his mouth and replaced by what we all believe he meant and what we believe we heard.

                                                                                                                                                                                          That's what happens when an international brand lets a uneducated person make statements without thinking.

                                                                                                                                                                                          You take the word family and turn it into a word of hate in the mind of millions....yeah, clarification is yesterday's news.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                            I pretty much read what he said and responded to it. I know what his words were, and I find them despicable and intolerant.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                              I wasn't gathering that from GH's comment, which was what I tried responding to. GH's clarification comment sounds like splitting hairs.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Would the company have asked for a public apology or posted same all over their own sites if they didn't have regret over the statement in the first place?
                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.barillagroup.com/hp/en/

                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is why I no longer believe it matters what he said EXACTLY. It was despicable and intolerant.all along.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                perception=reality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                this is, after all, why marketing/communications/PR is a career for some. "where are my G-D talking points?! we're about to tape here!"

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                      Seriously asking, except for vodka, what other Russian products are commonplace in the US?

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                        "Seems kind of hypocritical to me to boycott someone for their words, but not a country for their laws and actions."

                                                                                                                                                                                        There are products you can boycott and there are way's to boycott against a country for their actions. Where are the protest's for our Government to put pressure or sanctions on Russia for their violation of human rights?

                                                                                                                                                                                        There are plenty of ways to boycott Russia, it's just a matter of finding a way. (I personally love Stoli Vodka, and they have issued a statement in direct opposition of the Governments position, so should the company suffer because of their geographic location??)

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                          "Where are the protest's for our Government to put pressure or sanctions on Russia for their violation of human rights?"

                                                                                                                                                                                          Really? They are ALL OVER the place.

                                                                                                                                                                                          And I hope the fucking olympics get cancelled.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                            I honestly have CNBC on in my office all day, everyday. I have not heard of any protests regarding Russia and their anti-homosexuality laws. Honestly, not one.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I certainly don't hope the Olympics get cancelled simply because people have trained for years and have dedicated their lives to participate in these events. Why should they pay for the sin(s) of one country.

                                                                                                                                                                                            In an ideal world should there be some form of sanction against Russia and or Russian athlete's, yes I do think so.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                              "I honestly have CNBC on in my office all day, everyday. I have not heard of any protests regarding Russia and their anti-homosexuality laws. Honestly, not one."

                                                                                                                                                                                              There was a protest by Queer Nation at the opening night of Eugene Onegin a couple of days ago at the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, calling upon the Russian soprano Anna Netrebko and Russian guest conductor Valery Gergiev (both of whom are apparently Putin supporters) to make a public statement opposing the new Russian anti-gay laws.
                                                                                                                                                                                              That's the most high-profile protest I'm aware of, so far at least.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ratgirlagogo

                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you for sharing, that is the first and only protest I have heard of. If they have been "ALL OVER" the place as linguafood indicated, it's a dam shame they aren't getting more press or media attention.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ratgirlagogo

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Queer Nation is still around? cool, I've been so out of things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, there are certainly a LOT of letters being written and petitions to the IOC. There have been demonstrations outside of Russian consulates all over the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                    and today the IOC declared everything is just okey-dokey...

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cunts.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                            He did not apologize. He was sorry people were offended, which is not the same thing as being sorry about what he said, and he reiterated his position that gay families are not real families in the eyes of his company.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                              This is from an article that someone else has posted in this thread. It seems like a pretty complete apology to me. Again, I don't support him, but by the same token he should be judged by the full truth, not edited versions.

                                                                                                                                                                                              "After its first apology, Barilla posted a second, more contrite version on its U.S. Facebook page several hours later that recognised that it may have offended some of its own

                                                                                                                                                                                              “While we can't undo recent remarks, we can apologise. To all of our friends, family, employees, and partners that we have hurt or offended, we are deeply sorry,” it read.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm thinking that any apologies for what he said don't change the fact that they don't use gays in their ads. We just didn't know it before. So the damage stands IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                              Replace homosexual with black and see how you feel.

                                                                                                                                                                                            3. I am constantly surprised when company heads come out with opinions that are so likely to be polarizing. They are fully entitled to their opinions (even if I don't support what they say) but I'm surprised when they have not been coached by PR to not say them publicly.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I haven't had Chic Fil A since I heard about the owners views. I suppose Barilla will be added to my don't buy list.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. Here's something that bugs me, something I'm seeing here and something I always see elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                There's talk of "choice" and "beliefs" and "opinions" and "what you do in private" etc.,

                                                                                                                                                                                                Being gay is not a choice. It's not an opinion. It's not a belief and it's not something that is just "done in private."

                                                                                                                                                                                                These are not the same standards to which we hold hetero couples and hetero families.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Gay people, gay couples, and gay parented families are done with having to hide and be ashamed and be afraid to walk down the street holding their partner's hand. Why should they? In what century are we living?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Barilla's comments are horrible because they are implying that gay people are LESS THAN. And that's NOT RIGHT. It's not just "their opinion" "their belief, so whatever." It's NOT RIGHT.

                                                                                                                                                                                                18 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wish I could hit the recommend button multiple times!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Of course it's not right. Couldn't agree more. But it doesn't stop the opinions from forming in either direction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Unfortunately we live in a world where things generally take generations to assimilate into our culture. Nothing demonstrates this better than race relations in our country (speaking again about the US).

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sadly we never see change as quickly as we would like to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, sadly. With all our technology, I fear we're still barbarians.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I view the world, society and culture just as I do myself, a constant work in progress. As long as I continue to try to do better today, than I did yesterday I'm happy with myself. I would LOVE to live in a world where action/reaction was immediate but that will obviously never happen. So every day if I take a step in a better direction, and everyone else does as well, maybe some day we will live in the Utopian environment Gene Roddenberry created for us in Star Trek.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Live long and prosper my friends!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know someone who flat out says that he has no interest in changing any of his views. And he says no one else does either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The world would be a very boring place if we all viewed things the exact same way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not on a mission to change everyone's views or ideals to match mine, all I expect or ask for is respecting of each others views and ideals.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              On this topic it is silly to think you will ever get everyone to accept homosexuality. However, even if you don't accept it, respect it, and the people that represent it, and that's a huge step in the right direction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                At least he's upfront about it. Many people probably feel that way. Takes a lot of introspection and courage to change a life-long belief.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's too bad that bigotry is still defended. Sigh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: globocity

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ah, but then he turns around and denies any prejudice towards any group.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I deny to have any prejudice against any one group. I prefer to hate all groups equally!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (needless to say this is a joke, however I do feel the need to say it is because I have a feeling someone would find a way to be offended by this)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, I'd think the 60 or so years since the Civil Rights Act was enacted out to have given everyone a chance to "assimilate."

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I agree but I think sometimes slow naturally evolving change that permanently erodes ignorance tends to be lasting change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Each generation seems to have gotten more and more comfortable with same sex relationships. Many public schools even have G & L clubs. My kids tell me that very few kids have issues with it and those that do usually have a host of other problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Luckily,

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The gay couples and parents I know, including myself, are not ashamed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              While I appreciate and applaud your overall point, to suggest we live in shame is sort of insulting, sorry

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Did I miss something? I don't see where Violatp was suggesting that at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Gay people, gay couples, and gay parented families are done with having to hide and be ashamed and be afraid to walk down the street holding their partner's hand."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                The gay bashing crimes that have recently taken place in NYC (and everywhere else for that matter) are testament to this statement unfortunately just not being true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think she might have meant done as in fed up with having to hide.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But sadly, it comes with risk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, we are "fed up" with it, but for all the advances made, we are still a long way from being treated equally by many people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bunny is right, being 'done with it' is different, very different from it being over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. FUCK BARILLA. Their pasta ain't all that, anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sadly, the people who will suffer most from a boycott are his employees, not he personally.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You are right, linguafood. And thanks for saying it. He will not be significantly impacted by some preachy types boycotting the Barilla brand. The people that WILL be the most severely impacted are the minimum wage workers (single moms just for example) in the Barilla factory that end up being laid off when demand for the product is decreased regardless of them being opposed to what the one person at the top espouses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Folks, as you might imagine, this is a contentious thread, and we've removed a lot of posts from it already, so we wanted to make a couple of general points:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It is a food-related media story so it is on topic for discussion here on FMN. Debating whether or not a post is acceptable on Chowhound is never on topic -- if you think it might not be and that we might not have seen it, please Flag it, rather than commenting in the thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Making personal attacks on other posters about their beliefs is not okay on Chowhound. The line between commenting on someone's beliefs and attacking them for them is sometimes a very fine one, and we're likely to default toward keeping the conversation less personal. From the other side, taking umbrage at general statements that might happen to describe you doesn't help the thread remain friendly. As much as possible, please try to keep the focus here on discussing the Barilla situation, and not on dissecting other hounds or every instance of corporate discrimination they can think of.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. ... and this is why companies have spokespeople instead of letting their chairman say stupid stuff on the radio.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      why even comment on a topic that has the potential to offend such a large fraction of their potential customer base?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      59 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Dustin_E

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good question, Dustin E

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a part of me wonders if "no such thing as bad publicity" is part of the explanation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          though i suspect the risk of a massive boycott far outweighs any free publicity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          so it is probably more along the lines of "i'm the chairman, i'm rich, and so i can say whatever i want"...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Dustin_E

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hard to know. I tend to believe it's a multi-layered decision. But does anyone know what prompted this public statement in the first place. Out of context, it appears so odd.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What IS the context?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              He was doing a radio interview and the host asked him why his company doesn’t feature gay families in their advertising. He talks about how his company wants to, “talk to traditional families. The women are crucial in this.” Seems he’s under the impression that homosexuality is for men only.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EM23

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks EM23, I read that part along my travels but I wondered what prompted the radio interviewer to ask this question. Did something else open the door to this button pusher of a question?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the impression that a woman's homosexuality somehow 'doesn't count' is not unheard of...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  but whoa we're going a bit off topic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    “His radio comments came after the interviewer asked him about allegations this week from Laura Boldrini, president of the lower house of parliament, that Italian advertising was full of gender stereotyping.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Barilla, whose ads often picture mothers serving their families at the dinner table, disagreed, and was then asked whether he would feature a gay family.”
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.chicagotribune.com/busines...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EM23

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bingo, thank you! I really appreciate the info. This will be family dinner debate night for sure!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Dustin_E

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Because most people don't realize their ignorance until they hear it for themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Or, maybe because they believe they are right and have the right to speak their minds. Whether someone else likes it or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's much harder to take a stand against opinion. It''s easy to take a shot in reaction. jrv, where do you think the most good comes from, from statements like this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm sorry HillJ I don't understand your question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I do think good comes from his statements, without them you/I might not know his opinions or belief's, so without his statements we wouldn't know to have a dialog about those opinions and why we believe they are wrong or ignorant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If that wasn't the question you were asking I'm sorry, try me again. I'll try harder!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No that's my question. You followed perfectly. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (Am I confusing people these days-second CH to ask me on this thread what am I saying, lol-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Now it would appear other higher ups working for Barilla have come forward to counter the statement-so perhaps to the ears of the Barilla corporate group this is an emergency but the public tends to be fickle and forgetful over time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To me a boycott is just a silly waste of time. For every box of pasta you don't buy, someone else is going to buy 2 boxes and start eating pasta on Wednesdays, just to show you! That seemed to be the case with Chik Filet, for every protest that was held there seemed to be a support rally, and after all that what has really changed?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can certainly fight fire with fire, however if and when you do that all you have left is scorched earth. Nothing can flourish or grow for years and years and years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Or you fight fire with water, water is cool, calming and it is the nourishment of man and earth alike. You preserve your ground you salvage what you can and you give growth a chance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To me a boycott is fighting fire with fire, beginning a dialog offering education, taking a step back and working on acceptance is fighting fire with water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again, these are my humble opinion(s).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I enjoyed what you wrote. I'm reading how quickly the "spin" takes hold and takes over. The fire's volume seems to overshadow the calmer educational moment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But it's good to know and better yet be reminded that people take a stand on hateful speak.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not "boycotting," I'm refusing to spend my money with a company that stands in direct contradiction to my values.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As far as dialog goes, it's not my responsibility to walk around trying to engage bigots. They can embrace all people or accept that they are limiting their customer base.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, Patton Oswalt agrees with you regarding boycott:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Retweeted Patton Oswalt (@pattonoswalt):

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          F**k the boycott. Do some real damage; from this point on, the slang term for a man-to-man fisting is a "barilla."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It worked with Rick Santorum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How does your comment about Rick Santorum relate to food, JonParker? I thought we are posting here to talk about food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I didn't get that either but am not up on so many things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it was in referencing the idea to give a new meaning to "barilla", as was quite effectively done for "santorum" solely though the power of the internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LOL......just out of curiosity is Patton Oswalt gay?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No, just funny as heck. Miss King of Queens, OT.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He's narrating a new comedy called The Goldbergs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Does it make me a jerk if I really thought he was gay? LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm bettin' not a lot of folks here are familiar with the 'activity' :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is it not self explanatory?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JAB

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess we'll see :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If he had made similar comments were the question posed about race, a boycott would probably destroy them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We have not made such strides regarding sexuality as we have with race. And even then there is far more work to be done (eg miss America backlash, America's got talent backlash etc)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    People went out of there way to support chik fil a because they whole heartily agree with such sentiments. As they probably will with barilla. Evolution is slow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Don't get me started on the Ms. America debacle. WTF is wrong with people? Honestly, I'm starting to lose hope for my fellow man.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm so out of it I don't know about any debacle! ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, but we could get started on that! Definitely off topic, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Trust that it was pathetic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Pathetic but not surprising. We really need to work on educating our family, friends, and kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And I'll say this - f tolerance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tolerate:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Verb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Accept or endure (someone or something unpleasant or disliked) with forbearance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't think other races, sexualities, etc should merely be "allowed to exist" or to be "endured." I think they should be welcomed and embraced. We need to teach more than tolerance, we need to celebrate diversity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ughhhh ...... so I need to tolerate Rachael Ray and Guy Fieri ?!?!?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Excellent point. I went to a Quaker college, and "tolerance" and "diversity" were big words on campus. But when we talked of "tolerance", we were referring to people with different political beliefs, or who dressed in an outrageous way, or were just plain annoying :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                One wouldn't say that they "tolerated black people" would one? Or "I tolerate people from South America".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DGresh

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I tolerate people of other cultures, races and sexualities." That's not enough for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Understanding and appreciation are more like it. I'm not religious at all but have studied with 3 types just because. I like to learn about what others believe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I graduated from HS in 2002. We went to the Museum of Tolerance once in high school and once in junior high. I don't recall exactly what we discussed but I think we need to take "don't kill people because of their race" to another level, especially regarding our kids. We need to teach them to appreciate others, to have curiosity, and to ask questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But they won't learn that if their parents and teachers don't believe that themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: youareabunny

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Right?? Being intolerant of intolerance is NOT itself intolerant. It's a circuitous argument used by people who have no true reason for their bigotry, racism, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you want to swim in that cesspool, try googling "Miss America terrorist." It will make you weep for not only their hatred and bigotry but the total failure of the American education system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or as one brilliant commenter put it: "the slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging, dull-eyed ignorance of people so stupefyingly uninformed that they can't even hate straight."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or the Sikh professor from Columbia U who was beaten last week while being called a terrorist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            More seriously, though, I think this is just the occasion that works for a boycott as this is a mode of discourse working entirely within a consumer mode.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And no, fighting fire with fire somehow presumes an equivalence of a hateful anti-human rights stance with those protesting that stance. That's simply not the case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm hardly pro-boycott as a blanket option; I think there are times it works and times it really doesn't. This is one of the moments that works: It highlights a problem (a presumption that gay families are not families) and it gathers public support for a public articulation of a counter opinion. And, as a boycott, indicates that this kind of hate speech is neither welcome nor profitable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm not sure that a 'dialogue' with the opponent in this case serves any function save to legitimate the anti-gay stance as a rational counterpoint in an argument. This is not a debate. Refusing to acknowledge anything but a traditional heteronormative patriarchal family as a family is simply an argument not worth having; it suggests that this is a legitimate debate. And it is not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PERFECTLY said. Dang, you write well!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Well, shucks. Thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Very well said. While I agree with your overall points, where the subject get's mired to me is the fact we are using our domestic views regarding homosexuality within a foreign society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While morally I believe our stance and views are the correct ones we are dealing with an individual and company in a different country and society. Right or wrong, can we expect them to share our views? Is it fair for us to expect them to automatically embrace our countries positions on this subject? I just don't know.....and because of that I guess I tend to give them more of a benefit of doubt. I stated elsewhere if this is going to be the position with Barilla, then shouldn't we be doing something about Russia?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here's a little financial info:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    okay the timing of that announcement coupled with the radio interviewers question....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cheers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But about Russia, why do you presume people are not doing things? I think there's a tendency to presume there's a shortage of outrage and/or energy and the fact is, it's highly likely that all this can be addressed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is just so much frustrating with this kind of critique as it suggests that there is a 'proper' site for outrage, and that you are the one to determine where and how that energy is spent and when and how the debates are launched. I know that's not what you meant, necessarily, but that is the rhetoric embedded there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, I suggest you scroll down for my example of Italian pasta and pesto adverts from 2012. We are not playing at cultural imperialism here, nor do I fully buy the relativist argument when it comes to human rights.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'll add that there's a huge difference between expressing your outrage to a company that's competing for your dollars, and expressing it toward a nation. I'm in favor of boycotting the Olympics, but other than that I can't really do anything about Russia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That said, I have friends that will not buy oil from Citgo because of Hugo Chavez.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Isn't he dead?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes, but Citgo is still nationalized.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hahahaha......I don't know what they are selling in that video, but I want some!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      WORD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He's the CEO, so there's no one "higher up" -- more like his PR department went into damage control mode. The American subsidiary distanced itself as quickly as possible from the remarks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was referring to the American officers. Barilla USA is in Illinois. http://www.barillaus.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The whole family of companies (a private company).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.barillagroup.com/corporate...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Did you see this:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.barillagroup.com/hp/en/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They took to their own sites, worldwide to apologize.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Don't you think the public IS doing a good job of holding this company to its words?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not to mention their FB, Twitter and social media pages are lit up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Social media kinda blows my mind. We actually can and do make a difference. One voice becomes many very quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            According to my college colleagues, campuses across the country have been getting pretty vocal too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Now we just have to make sure they vote!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm not worried.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's true but social media also allows for both ways. Hateful people can come together as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          He's the chairman, not the CEO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. So here's what I want to know. I like their "Plus" line of pasta because it tastes like "normal" pasta but with more protein, fiber, etc. Is there a comparable product from a different widely-distributed pasta company?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LurkerDan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  yes, LurkerDan. at Trader Joe's ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well then I guess I need to wait a few months to boycott barilla, when TJ's will finally open in Boulder! :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. A friend who parents a gay family just posted on FB that he took all the Barilla products from their home and returned it to the large chain grocer who had sold it to him. The store manager not only accepted the return but applauded him for taking action. I also applaud him for standing up for his family.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. while Guido's comments are straight out of 1950's for many of us, it's a good reminder that these opinions exist and very common all over the world. i'm actually glad he voiced his opinion bc now I can choose to buy other pasta like DeChecco or Garofalo at Costco. But unlike me the worker at Barilla is the one gets the short end of this stick. I can now choose to go buy another brand but the worker can't quite walkout on their jobs as easily as I can walk away. When these corporate heads express their personal views, and "speak" for the entire company it's really a shame.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: trolley

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You are right, boycotts always hurt someone. But that's no reason not to do them, since it makes the world better for everyone in the end. I can only hope that if other pasta makers get Barilla's market share they will be able to higher away some of their workers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. And an FYI for anyone wondering if this is specifically Italian:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (BEFORE the recent kerfuffle I might add.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Apparently Bertolli is going for any customers they lose over this : http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/bertoll...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I posted the same above, but that link just makes it look like media spin-which I dislike just as much as stupidity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            btw-that's an older commercial.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cute!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I heard about the boycotts I was a little concerned, until I realized it was Barilla and not Bertolli - I got mixed up. If I were Bertolli I might be concerned about this possibility, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I like Bertolli's frozen soups, except I think the tomatos don't freeze well - they have a mowed grass aftertaste - and I even wrote to Bertolli to complain. Rather than responding to my complaints, they just sent me a coupon for a free soup. I guess that is standard practice in dealing with complaints... didn't like our product? Here, have some more!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: GraydonCarter

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's hilarious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. Here's one business owners reaction in New Jersey:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.app.com/article/20130927/N...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              btw, this news report comes on the same day reporters announce same sex marriage can start Oct 21 in NJ.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for sharing. I just did it on FB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wonderful!! And glad he donated it to a food bank :).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Bertolli's response. Love it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Leepa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I understand that it WAY preceded Barilla's foot in mouth debacle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Perhaps it did. Which is even better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Leepa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LOVE it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Thank you for posting this topic. I went onto the Barilla Facebook page. There is a real posting war going on. Ironically, Barilla pasta was on my table tonight. It was the last of what I had in the cupboard and I can guarantee you that it will not be replenished ever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are so many wonderful products out there. Why purchase something from a company led by a foul-mouthed bigot? Why should I turn my head? This may seem like a tiny act in the realm of history, but my culinary actions inform how I feel about the food that I produce. I'm glad he made that slip, so I now know to purchase elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If anything, a boycott sends a message to the world that a significant percentage of consumers will put their money where decency is preserved. There is a lot of hate in this world and the only thing we can do is try to make sure our actions, no matter how seemingly small, support human rights and equality for everyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Feed Me

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I especially like your comment "the only thing we can do is try to make sure our actions support human rights equality, no matter how seemingly small." Thank you. That says it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. I can't help but think that someone who is preoccupied with what goes on in someone else's bedroom is very unsatisfied with what goes on in their own bedroom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tom, this isn't about what goes on in their bedroom. It is about what goes on in their kitchen. And no, I'm not being obtuse. This is about respecting their lives, their whole lives. Not just a small part of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "preoccupied with what goes on in someone else's bedroom"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is part of the problem homoSEXUAL how much of you life is spent in the bedroom? How much of what what you do goes beyond what the bible would condone? seeing as if it isnt married no divorce sex if is an abomination...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But you know what it is really about life out side the bedroom. it is about holding hands in the park. It is about being able to go to parent conference. Being able to celberate your wedding in the newspaper. Register for gifts. See a family like yours open chirstmas gifts in the montage for the Mall shopping season so your kid knows he isnt a freak. It is about the world inderstanding that around the dinner table there are all kinds families and when they sit down with love and respect for each eother they are making the world a better place.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              truly girlofw, I have to remind myself that you are a young lady! I hope you don't mind me saying, such an (older) soul :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                :) I will take that as a complement. I am glad I have here to come and"talk" because it seem at school I get a lot weird looks and teachers who prentend not to see my hand

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: girloftheworld

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Keep that hand raised, @girl!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Being gay is NOT about what goes on in the bedroom. If that's what you think it is, then you need to reeducate yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Maybe you should reeducate yourself by reading my other comments on this thread before you come to conclusions that are inaccurate. My point has been and continues to be that most of the people who preach or otherwise perpetuate "hatred" towards same sex relationships are usually deeply troubled people and their arguments more often than not evolve into "bedroom" talk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have relatives & friends who are both gay & lesbian and their relationships with my wife and I are no different in any way. As I have stated before, I think we are in the majority in how we feel and as time goes by that majority continues to grow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If my comments above contributed to people's misunderstanding of your personal position, I apologize.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. I find it disturbing that many of the posters here say that although they disagree with it they "respect his opinion". Why respect an "opinion" that is bigoted and ignorant?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As for those who say Barilla pasta is crap, so they wouldn't buy it anyway, would you buy it if it were not crap, in light of these revelations?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              61 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: rrems

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't agree that his opinion is bigoted, which means intolerant. He has not expressed intolerance of gay families (and has said the opposite), only that his company does not use gay couples in its advertising. It is his perogative to project the image he prefers in his advertising. The image is not anti-gay, it just include them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I see more intolerance from those who have a gay agenda against those who do not choose to promote it than I see from Mr. Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, it is the company's choice whether to exclude a large number of families from their advertising, and it's perfectly reasonable for those who find that attitude unacceptable to refuse to buy their product. I do find the willful exclusion of gay families from their advertising to be clearly anti-gay, just as would find the willful exclusion of blacks, Caucasians or Asians to be anti those groups as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have no idea what you mean by "gay agenda," other than two words strung together to sound scary, but it is not intolerant to demand respect and equality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.barillagroup.com/corporate...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Did you read his public apology on the Barilla website?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children (which, btw was never included in any of his "apologies," so I can only assume he doesn't regret saying it) isn't bigoted?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Ruth Lafler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt children...isn't bigoted?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That being said, is a child better off being raised by two loving, moral and skilled parents of the same sex rather than being raised family-less in an orphanage or being shuttled around to foster homes? Hmm...let me do the math, Sgr. Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or being raised by two straight people who aren't as good at parenting as the gay couple.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Agreed. There is a lot of rotten parenting by heterosexual couples out there, and good gay couple would be a God-send to those children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That notion is still anti-gay, and misguided.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You're right, but my point is to establish a hierarchy of values. The job is to educate people who hold this wrong-headed idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And what about committed gay couples where one is the biogical parent and the other partner adopts the child to make a legal family?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What about it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm trying to think of a scenario where that isn't the case. And, yea, as linguafood said "what about it?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If he were basing that on evidence or research that indicated it would hurt the adopted child, it would be pro-child. Given that there is no such evidence, he's not. He's therefore basing his opinion on his own assumption that gay couples are not competent parents or are, by their very gayness, harmful. That's pretty much the dictionary definition of bigotry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ErnieD

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, Ernie. And I was making the point you were making, that if there was some genuine evidence, not just his own bias, that gay parents make bad parents - and there is no such evidence - his statement would not be "anti-gay," but rather, "pro-child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My nature is to challenge the people I agree with. I'm not a joiner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My hunch is that gay parents may well do a better overall job of parenting as many have to go through a very time consuming & expensive adoption process which indicates there was a conscious, mature decision making process that took place (vs) others who often have children by mistake and/or long before they are emotionally or financially ready to raise children and sometimes just because having children is the thing to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ANY couple that tries to adopt, gay or straight, has to go through a "very time consuming & expensive adoption process".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm just saying, as a hetero infertile all for gay adoption rights who has looked into adoption herself and given up on the process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sockii

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A straight co-worker has adopted 2 children (about $30,000 ea) and as you say the process & wait was excruciating. Both also have respiratory problems as a result of CDS use by the single hetro mother.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I also know several gay couples who went through the same process. Unlike so many straight pro-creators, those who go through the adoption process live and breathe for their children. Because more often than not gay couples have to adopt I would have to believe on average they are extraordinary parents. I think a research project (infant to adult) on the subject would be very eye opening and would make a very powerful argument against long held traditions. I am not a gambler but if I had to put down a significant wager with out empirical data, my money would be children of same sex couples are disproportionately successful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Studies have been done on this subject -- I had posted a few links on this thread but they were deleted. Here is one, but do a search on the interwebs. They certainly are out there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That NYDN story was interesting. As a Straight W/M with 2 daughters I have been more preoccupied with the violent culture of urban youth (born / raised if thats what you call it from hetro's) depicted on the news every night and never really thought about children of same sex couples. This thread has been very enlightening. With very little deliberation my hunch about kids of same sex couples was very obvious to me. I wish picking stocks was as easy :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have never understood why there are specific laws and protections in place that excludes or rather protects one segment of the population from making the single worst decision of their life time. Why should gays have the protection(s) of not being allowed to get married, hell I wish I was excluded from doing it 19 years ago when I made the decision! Lol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have said before, there is a reason why a synonym to the word Gay is happy or joyful, it’s because most or none have been married!! If you want to get rid of the gay marriage debate, let gay’s get married. After a decade of being married they will look back and say, “What the hell were we thinking?” Remember how happy we were before we got married? You want to end the gay marriage debate, let them get married and be miserable like the rest of us!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Stated previously in this thread I have no problem with gay marriage, civil unions or whatever will give them the equal marital/parental rights we straights enjoy. “Marriage” is a bit of a hot topic for religious reasons; however call it whatever you want, just be treated equal to your hetero equivalents. Enough said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While that study Lingua posted is good and informative I find a “flaw” in it. At this point gay marriage is in its’ infancy stages. The numbers of actual gay marriages are so small statistically compared to the overall gay population –and- the number of gay adoptive parents are most likely fractional percentage of the overall gay population. Right now you are seeing the pioneers of the gay marriage/adoption movement. These are the families that will be noted in history books as the revolutionaries of the gay family unit in America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you take a look at the history of the straight families let’s say the peak of the American Straight Families was the baby boom 1946-1964. If you were to compare statistics for straight families from that time period to straight families of today, I’m sure you would see similar statistics as the Gay vs. Straight article Lingua provided above. I suspect over time, over several generations of gay marriage you will start to find the tables will level between gay families and straight families with the statistics of their marriage/divorce rate and condition of their children, quality of the upbringing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gay or Straight we are all still humans, and our unique ability to f* things up will prevail regardless of what your orientation is. Sad to say.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Arguing that children of gay parents are happier than children of straight parents takes people down a slippery slope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you can argue that they are happier, then others can argue that they are less happy and more damaged. All of this is irrelevant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We don't regulate marriage based on whether we think the people in question will be happy. People are entitled to enter unhappy marriages. It is very likely that there is a higher correlation between strength of marriage and happiness of child than there is sexual orientation of parents to happiness of child.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The only question is whether there a specific issue about having gay parents, independent of the relative quality of individual marriages, that is detrimental to the child. There is no kind of independent evidence to prove or disprove this -- to think that there is is pointless. The only "evidence" that exists is socially and culturally-based - it's not like there is a biological "gay gene" which the child inherits that would affect its biological makeup.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: calumin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "It is very likely that there is a higher correlation between strength of marriage and happiness of child than there is sexual orientation of parents to happiness of child."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I fully agree with this. Nearly every indicator of happiness and success goes down for children raised in a single parent households, vs. those raised by two spouses in a stable marriage. People who choose - choose - to be single parents are making a selfish choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You'll notice I didn't even mention "loving" marriage; although that is the ideal, just stable is enough in terms of raising happy, healthy children. Traditionalists and everyone else should be focused like a laser beam on the problem of single parents, and far less on the gender of committed, stable, married parents. It's why I see gay couples asking for the right to fully commit to each other legally and socially in the compact of marriage to be a conservative and stabilizing thing, not a radical political act.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Choosing to have a child as a single parent is no more a selfish act than choosing to procreate as a couple is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While you cite broad data that children from two-parent homes are "happier" than those from single-parent homes, that data is essentially raw with regards to the issue you raise. Many of those "unhappy" children in single-parent homes have lived through a divorce, split, etc.,. This is a very different kettle of fish from a successful, well-educated, single woman choosing to have a child on her own. There is little data analyzing that scenario.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anecdotally, I know a woman who was extremely well-educated and was a partner in an established national law firm. She chose to adopt two girls and change careers to devote more time to them. They are two of the happiest and successful children I know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On the surface, it seems like you might be bringing some social baggage with you into this question. Hard to tell from an internet post. But I find it a little self-righteous to label even the majority of single women who choose to be parents as "selfish."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: cacio e pepe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Alas, there are mountains of data which prove that even children of successful, well-educated, single women choosing to have a child on their own are far more likely to score lower on indicators of happiness and life success, including doing more poorly in school and their careers, having lower self esteem, having a lesser ability to create and keep happy relationships, etc., compared to the child who is raised by both parents in the home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry. That doesn't make me self righteous; it makes me honest. Different choices, different environments, yield different results. I wish I could tell you that parenting didn't entail putting the child first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't rely on anecdotes. Do a thorough search of the literature on the internet. You will be buried in mountains of data supporting my position, and they are not all from Right Wing Christian Judger or something like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How do those compare to those widowed or abandoned who do not *choose* to raise children on their own?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Widowed is a bit different. Though the children have a hard time of it, the emotions are far different than children who are simply abandoned, either by one or both of the parents. Those who are abandoned have very significant problems, particularly boys. Even controlling for income, boys who never knew their father due to abandonment are at enormously greater risk of going to jail.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Getting back to the subject here, committed gay couples who want to get married and raise children does not seem to be a problem. It's not enough fathers in the house which is. If we want to create a happier, healthier world, we'd do better focusing on men not raising their children, or parents sort of going "meh" about sticking together for the sake of the children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So single mom by choice equates to abandonment?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I agree that missing fathers are a problem but in the grand scheme of things gays make up such a small percentage of fatherless family's I don't even know if my calculator would pick up the fractional percentage. I also suspect that most of the children gays adopt didn't have a caring father to begin with.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                An area of concern which does not apply to gays is how many extra bedrooms would have to be added if all the different fathers descended on the same mother's home at the same time. The next problem would be figuring out which kid belonged to which father.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: calumin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I agree. Simply because arguing that the children of any parents , regardless of sexual orientation, urban vs. suburban choosing parents, wealthy, middle class, or poor, free-range or helicopters, and on and on is a slippery slope. Let us just accept that any parent or parents can have an unending level of positive influence on their children and their childrens' happiness, or give their children only misery, or somewhere in-between. Sometimes (and as a parent of a toddler, this is what I fear most) you have no absolute control over how happy/successful/kind-hearted/"tolerant" your child will end up in life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    more successful? I doubt it, just sometimes more considered (face it little chance of 'oops!') and that is NO dis to the folks who try for years on other paths - I have seen and heard of the travails of some, the heartbreaks and the joys. it's tough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have often said if I had a pill that would cure what wrong with so many of today's youth's I would own my own tropical island. The inner city violence though is simply terrible. The total daily US casualty figures are on par or exceed 1968 - 1972 Vietnam war numbers. Its hard to believe we manage to kill each other at a higher rate than does the enemy during a period of war.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tom - there is a small island off Puerto Rico that I like and it's so inconvenient to get to to that basic crime is almost nil as outside of certain times of day - there's nowhere to go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You knock my socks off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The problem is that there is no evidence for him to base that statement on (we agree on this, right?). It is purely his opinion. There is no available alternative reason for his statement about gay adoption other than his own anti-gay views. Since there is no evidence, there is no hierarchy of values to think about, and there is no "anti-gay vs. pro-child" issue to consider. Therefore there is nothing for you to challenge the people you agree with. I hope my tone is not reading as unfriendly, just straightforward - I also enjoy a challenging discussion/debate from time to time and often come out having learned way more than I thought I knew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am glad you and I agree on this issue. It would be nice if everyone did, but I have to accept that they all don't...yet. However, "If he bases that position on the notion that it would hurt the adopted child, it isn't anti-gay, it's pro-child" is a moot point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As Lingua said, it is an anti-gay and misguided notion. Period. Nothing to challenge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, we agree. I am just challenging people to think a bit deeper than "I'm pro gay, so I'm a good guy. I win." It is not bigoted to ask how gay couples rearing children could affect the children (for both better or worse).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I could never be as good a mother as a woman could be, and could never fully provide what a mother could provide to a child, because I'm a man. That fact doesn't mean that if I was gay and married that my husband I couldn't be wonderful parents, or that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But its incumbent upon us to be brutally honest with ourselves as we forward what LOOKS like, on the outside, a pretty radical societal change. It's okay for others to challenge and ask questions where others are impacted by gay couples' decisions - such as in child rearing - and we need to be ready to answer them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again we find: another reason NOT to fear gay marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: EarlyBird

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I guess the thing that has many tail-feathers ruffled is that he didn't, as far as I know, question the impact gay parenting could have on adopted children. He flat out said he was against it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think had he made it a question, open for discussion, still implying what his preference is but open to the idea of it being "right" by him, if there is evidence to prove that there is no negative impact, then I don't think people would consider his comments as unquestionably bigoted. But, he didn't do that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Plus, there are a TON of "pro-gay" people who are definitely NOT "good guys". I think we all recognize that not being anti-gay does not make you a good person.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, I do believe your perspective is based upon your views as an American (I'm assuming) but as a non-Italian citizen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To keep things in context, gay adoption is illegal in Italy where both Barilla is from, and the audience to which he was addressing his statements. (He was on Italian radio).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So all this talk of potential statistics and verification of his point is sort of moot, since it's an illegal activity in the country he is from.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I would have to think his not condoning an activity which is illegal wouldn't be anti-gay nor pro-child, it's simply stating facts, views which are prevalent in his society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See this is where the waters get very murky for me. Most of the arguments here, both pro and con, are based on people from either the US or other countries where both gay marriage and or adoption is legal, in Italy neither are. So I think it's unfair for us to hold a debate or forge our opinions based on our more "liberal or progressive" views based on our society and our acceptance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (the illegal marriage and adoption policies of Italy are based on what someone else responded to me in this thread, I have not researched this first hand. I again don't agree with Barilla statements I just seem to be more "tolerant" because of the context and society which form his views. Ignorant yes, malicious.........I don't know)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nobody here is trying to rewrite Italian law. We are simply expressing our distaste for Mr. Barilla's comments while also boycotting his product. Nothing more, nothing less.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't know how many times I (and several other posters here) need to repeat this really fairly simple idea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lingua.....I'm addressing a new post/statement made by Justpaula which I do not think has/had anything to do with any other posts by you. I'm not sure why this should elicit a response from you which seems to be chastising me for sharing my thoughts, albeit repetitive to my other posts, with Justpaula and her "new" comments on this subject.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If I have violated some posting policy of Chow than I certainly apologize, however you nor any other posters need to remind me of your stance, I've read and heard it. My comment was directed towards Justpaula and her take on things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sorry if I have somehow offended you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jr., I'm neither offended nor was I trying to chastise you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I simply replied to your particular point, which elicited a response from me -- just like other posts from other posters have done. As you will easily be able to see, I've been quite active on this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I should probably just unsubscribe now, as pretty much everything under the sun that could be said has been said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ok good and thank you for the response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It was Justpaula stating specifically;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I also enjoy a challenging discussion/debate from time to time and often come out having learned way more than I thought I knew."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that prompted me to actually post again, I'm well aware I have expressed my point several times in this thread. If it weren't for the fact I'm honestly so torn in my *opinion with regard to this I wouldn't keep asking the same question(s).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (*there is no supporting his views, just his actual motivation)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Be well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What is illegal in Italy is not the core issue here - although, I guess this discussion has veered a bit off course (and this bored, understimulated stay-at-home-mom who has enjoyed participating in this thread, is very grateful to the mods for allowing it continue).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The issue, as I see it, is the choice of those from the U.S. and other countries (and yes, Italy too) to choose other brands of pasta to spend their money on because of their own views on gay marriage and their disgust with Mr. Barilla's views - which are personal views, regardless of the legal status. I also imagine there are a large number of people in Italy who disagree with it being illegal there, just as there are a large contingent of Americans who are fighting tooth and nail to keep it from being recognized as a marriage equal to those between a man and a woman. No matter what, no matter what anyone thinks, the main issue is that it is okay to boycott Barilla pasta because of Mr. Barilla's comments - no matter what context they were made in. Likewise, I would not end a personal friendship with someone because they will still buy Barilla - that is their choice. While the core issue is: Will you or will you not continue to buy Barilla?, the debates and opinions expressed - among people in our culture and society - are still valid and quite interesting. However, it would be fun to gain some insight from several Italians on both sides of the issue!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I guess I should have stated more clearly the basis of my response to you was directed at this portion of your post;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "The problem is that there is no evidence for him to base that statement on (we agree on this, right?). It is purely his opinion. There is no available alternative reason for his statement about gay adoption other than his own anti-gay views."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is no evidence because it's illegal, his "opinion" is the law where he is, so isn't that an alternative reason for his statement?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was trying to play a bit of devils advocate to your statement is all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              People can and do disagree with laws all the time. The current drug laws in this country, for example, leave a lot to be desired.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just because something is "the law" at any given time (Jim Crow, anyone?) doesn't mean my opinion about the subject matter has to be d'accord with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Good question. I really don't know, because I am not in his head - and honestly, have not heard or read the entire transcript of the interview which may give me some context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The only thing I can say in defense of that portion of my post is that once upon a time, not so long ago, gay marriage was not legal anywhere in the U.S. Thankfully, many people did not accept its legal status as a reason to say it is wrong. This goes for many laws. Even performing fellatio on Sundays was once wrong in some states (although that may just be a legend). But, is anyone going to say it is wrong? ;) Voices that speak out against things that *they consider* bigoted, discriminatory, or wrong for whatever reason, are the ones who can affect (effect?) change - especially someone in a position of political or economical power. I am still going to assume he thinks it is wrong because of his personal feelings. That said, his culture, age, status, AND the fact that he may stand to lose a lot if he were to support gay marriage and adoption in a country where it is illegal must certainly inform his opinion. For these reasons I do not think he is a terrible person. But, I will still by my pasta from other companies - because, as c oliver pointed out, his personal views have dictated corporate policy. They aren't even interested in marketing their products to gay people and are fine with gay people buying "someone else's pasta". Okay. So will I.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I get you though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  " Even performing fellatio on Sundays was once wrong in some states (although that may just be a legend)."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not a legend at all - oral of any kind and not just on Sundays.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_l...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Evidence is scientific.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Legality is an irrelevant point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's clear that his "personal views" have dictated corporate policy. And this why this discussion is here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Woweeee, "gay agenda"? Yikes. "Choosing to promote...the gay agenda"???? Double yikes!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe it is just me, but I have never considered giving equal human rights to homosexuals as a "gay agenda" to be "promoted".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do find someone saying the gay people do not make families and that gay people should not be allowed to adopt children to be not just intolerant, but flat-out bigoted statements. That said, everyone is entitled to have their own opinions and voice them, but when people disagree and choose to boycott your company because they think homosexuals should be guaranteed equal rights, well, I don't know, but I would not consider *that* intolerance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      BY the way there is a GIANT difference between wanting to project a "certain image of family" in your marketing vs. saying an entire segment of society does not even qualify as families as far as you are concerned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think Mr. Barilla has taught a lesson, whether he knows it or now, on how *not* to project a certain image of your company.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: GH1618

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What exactly is a "gay agenda?" Seriously.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not commenting on GH1618's use of the term, however the following quote from thimes below could certainly make it seem as if there could be a "gay/LGBT agenda";

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Wouldn't the world be a better place if straight people weren't so irresponsible with their reproductive parts :D It's just my opinion but straight people cause most of the problems in this world, i wish there were more laws restricting their behaviors, we'd all be better off. :D"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not blind and I know the ":D" is an indication of laughing/lightheartedness however turn that comment around towards the LGBT community and tell me how much weight the smiley face would hold then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As I said this in no way defends GH's comments, but don't kid yourself into thinking ignorant comments and views do not go both ways on this subject.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The quote above regardless which side it's coming from certainly paints a picture of an agenda, gay or straight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is the most rediculous post in this entire thread. I don't even know how to respond.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: thimes

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's honestly exactly how I felt when I first read what you wrote. Completely inappropriate if you ask me, and if said in the opposite direction I would be appalled, smiley face or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thimes just applied what LGBT face towards heterosexuals

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The way I understand it, it involves recruitment of school children and undermining the sanctity of my heterosexual marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So far, total fails. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This so-called "gay agenda" is a fabrication of the paranoia that accompanies homophobia.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ttoommyy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Don't you know? We queers have a conference call every morning to discuss the schedule for the day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  9am - Public orgies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  11am - Brunch (duh)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1pm - Destroying the traditional family
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3pm - Bringing about the apocalypse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  5pm - Satanist chants

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: speakhandsforme

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You forgot pageant hour

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: speakhandsforme

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      well that's not the conference call I lurk on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      9 AM is a rousing chant of "we are not amused"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      by 5 PM the satanists have become bored, gone away and it's the High Church Anglo-Catholics who take over and want to do Vespers they've painstakingly translated back into Latin or ugh, worse - Aramaic (why?).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: speakhandsforme

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you forgot cocktails and dancing to house music at 8pm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: rrems

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps they mean they respect his right to his opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. This post was moved from the Italy Food board, so I'd just like to add one comment to put the whole thing in a bit more context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Barilla remark was made during an interview addressing a recent proposal in the Italian legislature to come to terms with the way women are represented in the Italian media. Barilla was being asked whether he would support portraying women and men in more equal roles within the family (i.e. not barefoot and behind a stove).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So, in a sense, his response was not just an attack on 'non traditional' families, but also a call to keep women in their traditional roles as the ones who stay home, take care of the kids, make and serve the pasta, waiting for their menfolk to come home from the office.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: minchilli

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for the additional information. It was clear even from the remarks that were widely reported that he was sexist as well as anti-gay, but the extent to which they were sexist has not been as publicized.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: minchilli

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        so its true . . . mario batali must give up cooking pasta. probably a good idea, look what happened when chef boy-r-dee was given free reign. italian cuisine has never fully recovered.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. I will have no problem boycotting Barilla, I think their pasta is lousy. Never eating at a Chick-Fil-A has been easy because I don't like to consume the scary chemicals they put in their food, especially Dimethylpolysiloxane (a type of silicone used in caulks and sealants, as a filler for breast implants, and as a key ingredient in Silly Putty).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        However, if Haagen Dazs were to suddenly come out with an ignorant, hateful political stand I could be in trouble.... ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: GrammyM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Folks, this topic has in general gone well, and we'd like to keep it that way. Please refrain from personal confrontations or accusations. Rate the chow, not the chowhound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Linguafood ~ maybe you should have said 2 guys kissing ~ Nice. That would have given people notice. But instead you posted a YouTube link and just said Nice. I sincerely hope you weren't looking for trouble.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, this is my first post to this thread because I've been trying to stay out of it. And I probably should have.:-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Considering that this thread is about having or not having gays in a company's advertising, I pretty much figured out what I was going to see.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Looking for trouble? I liked the commercial and found it to be in context with this thread - just like the Bertolli ad further down thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wasn't aware of the fact that anybody needed to be given "a notice" (did you perhaps mean a warning?).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We're all adults here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    miss_belle, I think in a lot of ways your reaction was exactly the point of much of this conversation. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it isn't intended to be. I think your's is a very typical reaction by many people to the video. That makes your voice here important. At the same time you didn't say it was gross or disgusting. You just wished you had been better prepared for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I too was surprised by the commercial, although not offended or disquieted. Had it been a man and a woman kissing, people would not bat an eye. Had it been two men in cars firing guns at each other, the image would have gone unnoticed. But two men kissing is disquieting at best for many people, and outright offensive to many others.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not in favor of extreme PDA even among straight people - groping each other on the bus or subway, long tounge-in-throat public kisses, etc. But why do we tolerate/ignore straight people doing it when we - as a society - abhor gay people doing exactly the same thing? Even something as nonchalant as people holding hands, which in many parts of the world would be normal behavior for men who are just good friends, makes many in our culture react with fire and brimstone speeches, or even physical violence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If the ad lingua posted made someone uneasy, then so much the better. When people are uneasy they think just a little bit harder about things - as you obviously did. It caused you to post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: KaimukiMan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      KaimukiMan ~ thank you for your thoughtful post. But I had plenty of advance warning what to expect in that link. The mods kind of left me holding the bag there:-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ah yes, understand. I've been there once or twice - the only tree left standing in what used to be a forest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Why would you need a warning? That's the issue. It was not NSFW.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, please. That was a commercial that aired on Italian television. You need a warning for it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. If featuring gay people would help sell a product, then a company should do it. But I don't see why a pasta company needs to feature gay people to sell more pasta. Do gay people not eat pasta unless they see commercials featuring gays eating pasta? Whether the Barilla guy is bigoted or sexist, I don't care to comment since I don't have any desire to ascertain one way or another.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm all for everyone having the same rights but there's no legal obligation to feature gay people in commercials. It's not discrimination not to put gay people in commercials.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        21 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The point that was being made is that they don't think gay families represent what THEY represent. They're certainly entitled to their bigotry but we are also entitled to reject that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Here you have the clash of two different rights. They have the right to religious freedom. Gay people have the right not to be discriminated against. Unfortunately certain religious beliefs don't believe gay people are "normal." So gay people disrespect some religious people. Better to spend time modifying religious views than demonizing religious people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              " So gay people disrespect some religious people" I most sincerely do not understand what that means. And, again, we're talking about food advertising.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Barilla doesn't think that gay people represent what they represent - that's their religious point of view. They are entitle to that point of view, are they not? Are they not being demonized for practicing their religion?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last I checked, Barilla isn't a church.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On top of which, religion is a choice. Homosexuality is not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hiding bigotry behind your choice of a religion is loathsome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Did you really think I said or implied Barilla is a church or a religion? What in the world made you think that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What in the world made you bring religion into it in the first place?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, I was being sarcastic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Violatp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is just a guess. Guido Barilla is catholic and what he said is based on his religious beliefs. What makes you think this is just some bigot mouthing off? Did you not know that Italy is full of Catholics?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Using this as an argument doesn't hold water. First off, I haven't heard anything from Barilla that suggests that their attitude is for religious reasons, so you're projecting that with no evidence. Second, I don't think anyone is suggesting that they don't have the right to their views -- it's just that a large number of people won't buy fom them if they do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ten or twenty years ago it was common for various religious organizations to organize boycotts of companies that they felt like were in some way violating their religious beliefs. The difference now is that companies increasingly find the threat of a boycott by pro-gay rights people more threatening to their business than the people who boycott JC Penny's because Ellen Degeneris does their ads.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Barilla or any other company is free to discriminate in any legal manner. But there's no point in crying over lost business when the majority of consumers find their position unconscionable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "sacral": Latin: Of or pertaining to sacred rites or observances

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Although I do not identify with any religion as an adult, I was raised Catholic, and his use of "sacral family" beeped loudly on my Catholic radar.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just because you haven't heard doesn't mean it's not true. Do a little research and you'll find plenty of Catholics backing Guido. Please stop with the "I haven't heard" or "I don't think," because you haven't even tried. I know you are completely one-sided when you want to advocate a point of view.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I did not say it was not true, I said that there wasn't evidence to support it. It very well might be for religious reasons. But this is really about his public statements on this issue. Making inferences as to his reasons isn't fair to him. The question is not whether some Catholics support him, the question is whether he made those statements because of his Catholicism, which may or may not be true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, I'm not even sure what you meant to say in your last sentence. Of course I'm advocating a point of view.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you! This 'right to one's opinion' or 'freedom of speech' argument is a the persistent red herring in such arguments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. I can respect the right for a person to have an opinion without respecting the opinion itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. The right to say whatever one wants does not protect a person from the voices of dissension and disagreement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't even want to step into your argument about Catholics, which seems strangely person, but I'd like to point out that doctrine and Church policies can be challenged without attacking its adherents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Even the Church is subject to change (see Vatican 1 v Vatican 2 and recent decrees of Pope Francis).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, but even the current Pope seems far more enlightened.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Many Catholics, and certainly many Italians, are welcoming, open-minded people. Moreover, I don't really care what Guido Barilla thinks; he should simply have had the business acumen to STARE ZITTO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Zitto e mangia, Guido. There is far better dry pasta, anyway...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm sorry if I've 'demonized' them because that is not my intention. I very simply let my spending on products emphasize the things I feel strongly about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My only point is that it would be more constructive to change religious teachings than to demonize people who've held the same belief for decades. In the mean time, you can spend your money anyway you like.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Worldwide Diner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This may be the most confusing (for me) comment on this entire thread. Gays are disrespecting religious people? Religious people are more than welcome to disapprove of homosexuality, if that is what their religion tells them. But, putting the gay issue aside for a minute, since I am not Catholic, am I actively disrespecting Catholics for eating meat on Fridays during lent? Are Catholics disrespecting Jews by watching TV on Friday nights? How can you be disrespecting someone for having different beliefs than them? I AM SO CONFUSED.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think WWD was saying something like that these folks aren't gonna change anytime soon, so go ahead and take your pasta money somewhere else, but don't expect it to have a major effect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (but I like the idea of overly concerned gentiles sitting in the dark on Shabbos lest they offend the neighbors - heh)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think he was talking about a clash of different world views, and the problems of a dialogue in which one side assumes that the people on the other side have the same world view as they do, which makes criticisms of the other side seem more valid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are lots of examples of this. George Washington owned slaves most of his life. In 2013, do we ruin his legacy as Founding Father of America because he owned over 300 slaves at time of his death? Today we find that appalling, but that was part of the social fabric of that time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I thought WWD was saying that it is much more ingrained in the social fabric in Italy for someone to have the views that the Barilla chairman does. So you can demonize that one person for saying what he says, but it would be more constructive to look at the society (which is not progressive American society) which breeds these beliefs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Having said all that, I don't really agree. We live in a global society and his company has a global presence. It's completely legitimate for people who take offense at his comments to hold him accountable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Overly concerned gentiles...". This description made me laugh out loud. Anyway, neighborly gentiles may serve a purpose to observant Jews and they would never be expected to sit in the dark....who would be their Shabbos Goy? :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              BTW, while I am Jewish, I am not observant, so I am glad to know that WWD did not intend to say that when I eat a meatloaf for dinner on a Friday night during lent, I am not being disrespectful of anyone. Thank you for explaining. I guess he just used an odd choice of words, which we are all inclined to do from time to time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Paula, PAULA! are you there? we forgot today, can you come over and make a light? at least in the back hall."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd be honored to be a 'Shabbos Goy' (although they'd darn best share some leftover food type things the days when the kitchen is operating proper).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                but I'd need strict direction on some issues.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Anyone in the food business, needs to be an ambassador, opinions, comments like the above are unacceptable. I do like Barilla pasta and let's face it, boycotting it will only lead to the loss of jobs for the individuals that have their pay cheque signed by the above CEO. Very sad turn of events.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      16 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Ruthie789

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yet if I buy more boxes of ANOTHER brand of pasta, and that company becomes more successful, then they may need to hire MORE people to keep up with demand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hence, if I don't like the politics of a company, I'm not going to buy their products. My money will be spent elsewhere to help create and support jobs elsewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sockii

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (Playing devils advocate)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When choosing the other company to place your purchasing power with, will you look for their particular stance on this topic?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or as long as their opinions remain private you are comfortable with that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You can be anti-LBGT, as long as you don't admit it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I raised that point earlier. I think most of the people said that is fine. As long as they kept their opinions to themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ok, sorry I missed that and duplicated the question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              With regards to the answer I find that interesting. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Don't be sorry. The thread is very long. No one will able to find it. Feel free to duplicate the question. It is a good question, I think -- obviously I think that, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here was my question:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9182...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You can read the responses. Hope you will get some nice responses too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (I didn't mean to silent you when I said that a similar question was asked. I meant to give you a few preexisting answers)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with things being okay as long as businesses keep things like this to themselves. I cannot assume every product I buy or every establishment I patronize shares my political and personal viewpoints and if they don't yell it out to me, loud and clear, I can live with not knowing. Yesterday, I found myself in need of a box of pasta and pruchased Ronzoni, instead of Barilla. Who knows? Maybe Ronzoni feels the same way about people LGBT families as Barilla.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We took my son to Hershey's Chocolate World last week. My husband is VERY pro-Union and pro-Made In the USA - and we do seek out like-minded companies, for example when I buy his work clothes (he is an ELectrcian) I shop online and search for items made in the USA. Anyway,a day after our visit to Hershey he read an article linked to FB about how Hershey's has outsourced the production of Reese's to Mexico, probably for cheap labor. He said he regretted "spending a dime in that place". I explained to him that we cannot possibly know everything about every company's production and labor practices. When we learn something we can act with our wallet. We do our best to stand by our values, but if we researched everything we buy a) we would have no time to actually buy anything; and b) would likely find our pantry half-empty.When a company makes a statement adamantly opposite to our values, we cross them off the list, but a little "ignorance is bliss" is okay. Again, we do our best.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your computer is assembled in China, HDTVs almost all in Korea or Mexico, the same with many big name US appliances.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: James Cristinian

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Exactly. I also had to remind hubs that our new Ford - he wanted to buy American - was manufactured in Mexico.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Justpaula

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <but if we researched everything we buy a) we would have no time to actually buy anything; and b) would likely find our pantry half-empty.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Time is certain true, but like you said, sometime it is just a lot more information than you and I may able to handle. For example, if you try to look for CEO who are against interracial marriage, then I suspect that you will only lose 10-15% of your shopping option because I believe most people these days are very open to interracial marriage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Record-High 86% Approve of Black-White Marriages"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.gallup.com/poll/149390/rec...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      However, if you try to look for Pro-Union and Pro-Made in USA companies, I think you will lose more than half of your options out there. For example, most of the smart phones are not made in USA. First, most of the brands for the smart phones are foreign like Samsung, Sony, LG, Nokia.....etc. Even Apple make their iPhone in China. So you are down to nothing really.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's remarkable that the largest company in America by market value, Apple, does not manufacture a single product in America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have to now come back and do a 180o degree flip. Yes, iPhone are not made in US on paper, but in China. However, that may also be misleading because they are really "finished" in China. Majority of the value added are somewhere else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just look at the first table as well as the first graphs. Most of the stuffs are made elsewhere, not US nor China.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://singaporeanipaduser.blogspot.c...