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WalMart and Business Practices [split thread]

LOCKED DISCUSSION
Josh Aug 20, 2013 08:14 AM

(This thread was split from another discussion at: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9134... -- The Chowhound Team)

They also don't rely on the state to subsidize their slave wages like WalMart does by handing out food stamp applications to their employees.

Hard to believe anyone gives the Waltons their money.

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  1. The Chowhound Team Sep 1, 2013 02:51 PM

    Folks, this thread has become angry and political. We think everyone has staked out their position and said their piece, so we're locking it now.

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    1. jrvedivici Sep 1, 2013 01:53 PM

      I've got a dead horse anyone want to beat it?

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      1. g
        genoO Sep 1, 2013 07:07 AM

        Hard to believe, the world's (the whole entire world) largest and most successful retail business gathers hard feelings among the few.

        Crunching the numbers, the world seems to be OK with WalMart. But you go ahead and complain, there are a few who agree.

        31 Replies
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        1. re: genoO
          mcf Sep 1, 2013 08:49 AM

          government has also taken a dim view of Walmart having employees on the public dole, qualifyng by not earning living wages or benefits.

          It's hard to imagine folks learning how much dipping into our wallets for tax dollars Walmart does and still approve of it, against their own interests.

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          1. re: mcf
            t
            treb Sep 1, 2013 12:17 PM

            'government has also taken a dim view of Walmart having employees on the public dole' got any govt. created factual data, to support the statement. I'm curious.

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            1. re: treb
              Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:35 PM

              http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/retail/walmart.pdf

              http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/dec/06/alan-grayson/alan-grayson-says-more-walmart-employees-medicaid-/

              http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/...

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              1. re: Josh
                t
                treb Sep 1, 2013 12:40 PM

                As I thought, none of these are govt data, all are personal/political opinion. Just admit it Josh, you have a personal vendetta about WM. That's fine, for me just the facts mam!

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                1. re: treb
                  Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:51 PM

                  I seriously doubt you read through even the first link, a study from Berkeley citing numerous sources for its data, in 5 minutes.

                  Another interesting thing to note, and Cathy you may want to pay attention to this too: if the studies I cited are nothing but "personal/political opinion", what does that make your numerous evidence-free assertions?

                  Are they malarkey? Drivel? Pabulum? Bullpucky?

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                  1. re: Josh
                    t
                    treb Sep 1, 2013 01:00 PM

                    To the best of my knowledge, Berkley is not the govt. far from it. Same for Grayson and Motherjones, no need to read that swill. As I said in previous posts, show me govt provided data that supports this statement. ''government has also taken a dim view of Walmart having employees on the public dole". Simple request, no?

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                    1. re: treb
                      Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:08 PM

                      It's not swill because it counters your ideological bias.

                      Every article cited their sources, some of which were government data. If you weren't an ideologue, but were someone who actually was open to new information that might help you evolve your beliefs you would embrace being made aware of such information, instead of dismissing it as swill.

                      But that's how ideologues operate, so I'm not terribly surprised.

                      Since Alan Grayson is in government, and other representatives have *also* spoken out about WalMart's business practices, that actually would mean that the information I just presented to you *does* support mcf's comment.

                      Can you please explain why it's OK for WalMart to expect the American taxpayer to subsidize their business by providing SNAP benefits to their employees?

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                  2. re: treb
                    Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:01 PM

                    http://articles.philly.com/2006-03-02...

                    "These figures, provided to The Inquirer by the Department of Public Welfare at the newspaper's request, reflect full- and part-time workers. The agency did not issue figures for employees' dependents on Medicaid, which would likely significantly increase the number of the program's recipients and its costs."

                    Keep defending the corporate welfare.

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                    1. re: Josh
                      t
                      treb Sep 1, 2013 01:05 PM

                      This is a local dept in PA not the fed govt from which Medicaid originates. Look, I have no problem with your personal opinion but, don't make references to the fed without facts, not personal or political opinions.

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                      1. re: treb
                        Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:11 PM

                        But as you no doubt are aware, states often receive benefit funds as block grants, which they then disburse to their citizens.

                        And I'm curious why you're choosing to only accept federal data and not state or municipal data.

                        Why is it OK that the American taxpayer subsidizes WalMart's business practices by paying SNAP benefits to their employees?

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                        1. re: Josh
                          t
                          treb Sep 1, 2013 01:18 PM

                          'cus Medicaid is a federal funded program, not a block grant. All states get juice from the fed, the fed has the facts, all others have opinions.

                          Here you go again, 'Why is it OK that the American taxpayer subsidizes WalMart's business practices by paying SNAP benefits to their employees?' It's not just WM, we subsidize 'all' who don't make enough from their individual employers. It could be 'many' other employers that pay minimum wage, nes pas? Not just WM.

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                          1. re: treb
                            Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:23 PM

                            But this is where the fact of the Waltons' greed comes into play. They take home billions of dollars. Our taxes subsidize their business model.

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                            1. re: Josh
                              t
                              treb Sep 1, 2013 01:28 PM

                              Sorry to break the news to you, our taxes subsidize lots of various companies business models not just MW, don't you see that, can you admit that this goes way beyond WM. Look at the current situation as well as going forward where there are more part-time jobs offered than full-time. Affordable Healthcare Law maybe?? You haven't begun to see where your tax dollars will go in the future, and I thank you in advance for working and contributing to the system. Still, all I'm asking is 'Show me the Facts' I'm a data driven person.

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                              1. re: treb
                                Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:33 PM

                                Do you not see that there are differences between kinds of employers? Do you not see why someone might not object to subsidizing one kind of business vs. another?

                                In San Francisco there are laws that make it easier for residents to prevent large chains from opening. One of the compelling arguments for this is that for every $100 spent at a chain, on average only $11 stays in the community. On the other hand $100 spent with a locally-owned business $45 on average stays in the community.

                                My hunch is that most people view social welfare programs as temporary assistance. When companies like WalMart behave as they do they're looking at it as another subsidy enabling them to pay low wages.

                                In countries where the lawmakers aren't owned by private enterprise companies like McDonald's pay much more than they do here.

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                          2. re: Josh
                            c
                            Cathy Sep 1, 2013 01:40 PM

                            Military commissaries took in $31M in food stamps in 2008 and $88M in 2011. http://www.stripes.com/news/food-stam...

                            19,400 Active Duty qualified for food stamps in 1991. By 2002, only 2,100 qualified. (same article from Stars and Stripes, and also many other articles quote that statistic from a DoD study, which I can't find right now on my iPhone). Things have changed.

                            Why is is OK that the people fighting and dying for your right to free speech are paid so poorly that they also qualify for SNAP?

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                          3. re: treb
                            Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:13 PM

                            Here's a report from Congress:

                            http://democrats.edworkforce.house.go...

                            I'm sure you'll say since it was prepared by the staffers to the House Democrats it's also magically invalid.

                            No doubt you only want evidence written by the hand of Ronald Reagan on stone tablets.

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                            1. re: Josh
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                              treb Sep 1, 2013 01:20 PM

                              It's bias and YOU know it. How about data from a fed, non-political, agency. I prefer tablets from Moses!

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                              1. re: treb
                                Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:22 PM

                                The data in that report comes from government sources (among others). The authors note that WalMart's own secrecy about their workforce makes some of the data speculative, but they account for how they arrived at the missing data. None of which invalidates the fact that WalMart provides their employees with the necessary paperwork to get enrolled in SNAP.

                                You're spinning.

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                                1. re: Josh
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                                  treb Sep 1, 2013 01:31 PM

                                  No you're spinning a political opinion from the Dems, they're not a fed govt agency. The have their own agenda.

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                                  1. re: treb
                                    Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:34 PM

                                    What's their agenda?

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                  3. re: mcf
                    Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:31 PM

                    Not really. Fox News has done a great job brainwashing a sizable chunk of older Americans who are predisposed to believe that anyone younger than them are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings.

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                    1. re: Josh
                      t
                      treb Sep 1, 2013 01:12 PM

                      Who said this? Not sure how any news station can brainwash people, who controls our remotes? I really feel for the youth of this country, especially when it comes to employment. It's been tough for the past decade.

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                      1. re: treb
                        Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:16 PM

                        They do it by feeding their audience disinfotainment designed to reinforce their already-held biases.

                        http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/me...

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                        1. re: Josh
                          t
                          treb Sep 1, 2013 01:23 PM

                          Another personal/political opinion, 'show me the data', give me the show and time of who did such brainwashing.

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                          1. re: treb
                            Josh Sep 1, 2013 01:27 PM

                            Studies aren't "personal/political opinions", they're based on data. It's obvious you could be shown data all day long but still demand different data until you got some that confirmed what you already believe.

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                            1. re: Josh
                              t
                              treb Sep 1, 2013 01:35 PM

                              Show me hard fed generated data, not studies. Again, simple. Studies are opinion until proven. To be continued, happy labor day fellow worker.

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                          2. re: Josh
                            c
                            Cathy Sep 1, 2013 01:44 PM

                            Fox has on air and behind the scene Democrats working for them. You can google that yourself.

                            Please name ANY on air registered Republicans on CNN, MSNBC or whatever 'progressive' news channel you listen to.

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                        2. re: Josh
                          c
                          Cathy Sep 1, 2013 01:57 PM

                          I just saw this Pew Study. http://www.inquisitr.com/404737/most-...

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                          1. re: Cathy
                            jrvedivici Sep 1, 2013 02:38 PM

                            Those bastards! I have them on everyday in my office, I've been feeling brainwashed lately!

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                      2. re: genoO
                        c
                        Clams047 Sep 1, 2013 09:14 AM

                        The irony being the many with jobs displaced by Walmart are the same people dependent on the cheap, generic mediocre crap Walmart sells.

                        And as someone once pointed out to me, slavery has never really gone away, it's just been exported to China (Walmart's primary source of products outside of their "fresh" meats, fruits & vegetables).

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                        1. re: Clams047
                          t
                          treb Sep 1, 2013 12:15 PM

                          Not all individuals can afford to make purchases at places where they wish vs must, in order to survive. As far as meats, produce etc goes, WM sells the same stuff as most super markets.

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                      3. r
                        rochfood Aug 31, 2013 12:12 PM

                        As "Bill Gates" said on The Simpsons..

                        " I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks. "

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                        1. re: rochfood
                          mcf Aug 31, 2013 01:42 PM

                          Yet he's writing lots and lots of them since having become rich beyond any human need or want. Billions worth. Buffett, too.

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                          1. re: rochfood
                            Josh Aug 31, 2013 08:22 PM

                            I'd like to think that as a species we're capable of being motivated by more than mere material gain.

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                            1. re: Josh
                              t
                              treb Sep 1, 2013 05:43 AM

                              I believe most are motivated by more than material gain and those people, with the fortune to have been extremely successful, give a lot back to society. i.e Buffet and Gates et al. What troubles me about some of your statements goes way beyond a single business yet, you refuse to recognize this is a global issue. For example; are you wearing or using anything made in China or other country where there are no fair trade laws? Drinking coffee from a similar place? WM pays minimum wage as do thousands of companies and although some people may require federal assistance, at least they have the dignity to WORK and begin a path to hopefully get off assistance. WM will hire 100K veterans over the next 60 months and also has career tracks to management. Other companies, who pay minimum wage, like McDonalds etc, have the same opportunities as well. Be fair, if you believe the minimum wage is 'slave wages' then take it up with your congressional reps, senators and Obama.

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                              1. re: Josh
                                g
                                genoO Sep 1, 2013 06:57 AM

                                Pretty silly. I spent the first decade of my working life taking any job that would pay me more than I was making at the time.
                                What is the point of working if you have nothing to show for it at the end of the week?

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                                1. re: genoO
                                  Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:30 PM

                                  This country isn't the same one you grew up in. Read a newspaper (just not one published by Murdoch).

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                              2. re: rochfood
                                c
                                Clams047 Sep 1, 2013 09:10 AM

                                That's true - He got there through a government protected monopoly (licensed DOS).

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                              3. j
                                jarona Aug 30, 2013 09:19 AM

                                I refuse to be self-righteous when it comes to discussions like this. All I know is....when I lost my home, and went through a horrific divorce. I was what one would consider "poor". I worked, not at Walmart, but after being a stay-at-home mom for over 20 years, it was hard to break into the job market. As such, I ended up working at a franchised excercise club for women that boasted a 30-minute workout. I received minimum wage and had to support two children. It was awful. Through hard work and a strong work ethic, I rose above,switched a few jobs and now have a nice career in healthcare.
                                During my "poor" time I went food shopping at Wal-mart because they had the best prices. The "Great Value" brand had many teriffic items that were just as good as the brand names. Their dairy products were fine as were the produce...and the local Wal-marts where I live have great produce.
                                If I nit-picked every single company that I had "issues" with, I would be living in a cave with no electricity, I would have no phone, I would be limited in my clothing choices and would most likely be wearing a burlap bag.

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                                1. re: jarona
                                  mcf Aug 30, 2013 09:54 AM

                                  "If I nit-picked every single company that I had "issues" with, I would be living in a cave with no electricity, I would have no phone, I would be limited in my clothing choices and would most likely be wearing a burlap bag."

                                  I completely respect that you had to make the most of every dime and made the decision that was best for you.

                                  I also will not patronize Walmart because it's *not* nit picking to vote with one's feet when one has the luxury of doing so, it's living one's principles. Understanding that's a luxury and a privilege that not everyone can afford or would choose.

                                  But that doesn't make it trivial. I refuse to shame those who shop in Walmart and I refuse to accept the "self righteous" label for living consistent with my own principles.

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                                  1. re: mcf
                                    j
                                    jarona Aug 30, 2013 10:33 AM

                                    But that doesn't make it trivial. I refuse to shame those who shop in Walmart and I refuse to accept the "self righteous" label for living consistent with my own principles.

                                    It's cool. You're thinking is certainly not self-righteous--but there are those who ARE--I should not have been so judgemental with my words but sometimes..........

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                                    1. re: mcf
                                      s
                                      sedimental Aug 31, 2013 07:28 AM

                                      I absolutely vote with my dollars and my feet. I am incredibly fortunate to have the choice to do that.

                                      But I have found that many folks are funny about that concept. I only tell people "why" if they ask me. Sometimes they get defensive because they might choose something different, but I say "you asked me".

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                                    2. re: jarona
                                      v
                                      Val Aug 31, 2013 01:36 PM

                                      Since my divorce in '05, I've lived in a very mixed neighborhood and am blessed to have very good neighbors all around the home I rent. The nearby Wal-Mart expanded in '07 or '08 to include Fresh produce/meats/fresh foods and I *will* say that it has been a godsend for families who need to walk to a grocery store...our Wal-mart is on "our side" of U.S. 41 which is 8, count 'em eight lanes across and very treacherous to cross...Publix is on the "other side" of this highway so having this *closer* and safer option for buying fresh foods is excellent, I will say that. I see mcf's point for sure but when you are struggling, it really can help.

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                                    3. mcf Aug 28, 2013 04:19 PM

                                      You and I have more available choices. You made that argument about job availability and it applies here, too.

                                      I don't think shaming shoppers is necessary when discussing Walmart policies.

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                                      1. j
                                        Jerseygirl111 Aug 27, 2013 10:04 PM

                                        Oh really? I find it hard to believe people that people can't understand that poor folks enjoy a meal now and then also. Wow, wow, wow.

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                                        1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                          westsidegal Aug 27, 2013 11:08 PM

                                          jerseygirl: are saying that poor people can only possibly eat foodstuffs made by agribusiness out of artificial color, artificial flavor, huge amounts of salt, transfat, and chemicals that you can't even pronounce:

                                          i WAS poor for a portion of my life. all i had was a trunk of clothes , an alarm clock, one pot, one plate, and one glass. i washed EVERYTHING including my clothes with bar soap.).
                                          i came to learn how cook legumes.
                                          i cam to shop in mom 'n pop ethnic groceries.
                                          i came to learn that "breaking bulk" was not necessarily a financially smart thing to do even though the unit price of many bulk items was lower, there was much more waste involved.
                                          i learned that the little old chinese men that would lunch at a tiny hole in the wall with the dishes listed in chinese ONLY, were eating cheap edible food. (to this day, i have no idea what it was but i ate it and got full and paid very little.)

                                          LOTS of places sell reasonalbly priced legumes and grains in their bulk food departments that don't play hardball with their employees.

                                          truly, it is a ridiculous idea that in order to eat frugally you need to buy agribusiness crap products from outfits that intentionally game against their employees.

                                          so, to YOU, i say "right back at you" WOW!

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                                          1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                            mcf Aug 28, 2013 06:44 AM

                                            Walmart's isn't the only way to eat frugally. And what you don't pay at the store, you pay in hidden costs, like tax dollars to provide Medicaid to their employees and other sustenance.

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                                            1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                              Josh Aug 28, 2013 07:07 AM

                                              If WalMart is one's only option for affordable food then obviously you do what you have to do. The cruel thing about this cycle, though, is that giving the Waltons money helps perpetuate their slave-wage empire.

                                              I don't know where you live or what's available to you, my comment was more directed at people who make a conscious choice to patronize WalMart when other options are available to them.

                                              I do know, though, that many larger cities will have ethnic markets, health food co-ops, and other places where you can find inexpensive ingredients to make healthy foods without supporting a company that relies on our tax dollars to feed their employees so they can continue to siphon billions of dollars out of our economy.

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                                              1. re: Josh
                                                t
                                                treb Aug 28, 2013 07:46 AM

                                                Thought this thread was about TJ's not your personal opinion of WalMart.

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                                                1. re: treb
                                                  mcf Aug 28, 2013 09:05 AM

                                                  It was an on topic reply to a poster who compared the two by pointing to prices at Walmart for comparison.

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                                                  1. re: mcf
                                                    t
                                                    treb Aug 28, 2013 01:13 PM

                                                    I replied to Josh. However, whether an individual is or is not employed at WM, is probably not linked to whether they're on Medicaid. An individual has the free choice to work where they wish. If that person decides not to work at WM or anywhere else their choice may or may not effect their eligibility for Medicaid.

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                                                    1. re: treb
                                                      mcf Aug 28, 2013 02:41 PM

                                                      Now that's off topic here. What's on topic is the comparison between the two stores: one is cheap with great working conditions and benefits, the other is cheap without them to the extent that their employees end up with taxpayer funded health care, not employer funded.

                                                      BTW, you replied to a group in a forum, in response to Josh. You realize the rest of us are in on the conversation, right. :-)

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                                                      1. re: mcf
                                                        t
                                                        treb Aug 29, 2013 04:42 AM

                                                        'to the extent that their employees end up with taxpayer funded health care, not employer funded.' So you're saying that TJ's gives health benefits to part-time employee's, right?

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                                                        1. re: treb
                                                          o
                                                          ohmyyum Aug 29, 2013 05:03 AM

                                                          I've been following this discussion with interest because I quite like TJ's, despite everything I don't like about them. I will jump in to say that one of my friends works at TJ's. She works 3 days a week and receives full medical, dental, and vision coverage as well as free access to several gyms. In fact, her benefits might be slightly better than what I receive working full time at a major medical center. I don't know about retirement, but one thing they absolutely have going for them is that they do take good care of their employees.

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                                                          1. re: ohmyyum
                                                            t
                                                            treb Aug 29, 2013 05:20 AM

                                                            The point I'm trying to make is that there are thousands of companies that do not give health benefits to part-timers, not just WalMart. Why pick on just one company? 'cus people don't like WM? then don't go there and don't apply for a job there. This thread is about the OP not getting what TJ's is all about, right?

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                                                            1. re: treb
                                                              o
                                                              ohmyyum Aug 29, 2013 05:35 AM

                                                              I realize that many retailers do not provide health benefits to their part time employees, and especially not comprehensive coverage, but that is one of the things that makes TJ's stand out to me, and makes me feel good about shopping there. My post doesn't mentioned Walmart at all.

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                                                              1. re: treb
                                                                mcf Aug 29, 2013 06:00 AM

                                                                This sub topic is a comparison between TJ's and Walmart. Twp companies, not a referendum on capitalism.

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                                                                1. re: treb
                                                                  Josh Aug 29, 2013 08:18 AM

                                                                  Because the Walton family takes home billions of dollars a year. It is unconscionable that they force the taxpayer to subsidize their slave wages. How can you defend this kind of corporate welfare?

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                                                                  1. re: Josh
                                                                    mcf Aug 29, 2013 08:20 AM

                                                                    "How can you defend this kind of corporate welfare?"

                                                                    It's part of living in a world where it's acceptable for folks to have opinions different from one's own. And it's off topic.

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                                                                    1. re: mcf
                                                                      t
                                                                      Tucker23 Aug 29, 2013 09:18 AM

                                                                      chow hound is to talk about food , ok then what do you think about the new Ford Fusion.

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                                                                      1. re: Tucker23
                                                                        j
                                                                        jarona Aug 29, 2013 11:34 AM

                                                                        Well, I'm not a fan of Ford--and I'm not a Kia fan, but you know what? I love those little hamsters in the Kia Soul Ad! I wonder if they get benefits!
                                                                        Oh--yeah, back to the food!

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                                                                        1. re: jarona
                                                                          t
                                                                          Tucker23 Aug 29, 2013 11:43 AM

                                                                          Yes they have bebefits and are well paid they belong to IBHOH Local562 located Westerly R.I.

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                                                                      2. re: mcf
                                                                        Josh Aug 29, 2013 05:45 PM

                                                                        So please explain to me what opinion you hold that makes it okay for a family of multi-billionaires to have the taxpayer subsidize their employees since they won't pay a living wage.

                                                                        I've explained why I think it's wrong - let's hear the counter argument.

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                                                                      3. re: Josh
                                                                        t
                                                                        Tucker23 Aug 29, 2013 09:21 AM

                                                                        Ok I agrree, but why would this be discussed on Chow hound, Take it to face book and tweets or contact Elizabeth Warren.

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                                                                        1. re: Tucker23
                                                                          Josh Aug 29, 2013 05:58 PM

                                                                          It was in a thread where people were asking about Trader Joe's, and some compared it to WalMart.

                                                                          That said I think ethics play a big part in our food choices. When we support places like WalMart and McDonald's financially that means we are tacitly endorsing their lousy labor and environmental practices. Presumably if we care about the food we eat we should also care about how it gets to our plate.

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                                                                        2. re: Josh
                                                                          c
                                                                          Cathy Aug 29, 2013 10:45 AM

                                                                          The White House pays its interns NOTHING, gives NO benefits. Are you protesting the government and its job hiring practices? The WH interns are working at a base job for people unskilled, unfamiliar, needing to prove themselves for a paying job in Washington DC/politics.

                                                                          That's what minimum wage is for- to have a base job which requires no skills, then work and acquire skills and move UP to a job which pays more BECAUSE you have skills.

                                                                          The low paying/ base/starting Walmart jobs are there for people who need to start somewhere. You don't see Trader Joe employees working there as their first job; they have to have shown experience and responsibility to be hired.

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                                                                        3. re: treb
                                                                          juliejulez Aug 29, 2013 04:30 PM

                                                                          I am not a WalMart lover by any means, but I agree with this. I've only had one job, ever, that has paid benefits (I have my own private policies for health and life, and pay out of pocket for dental). And I work full time in a professional industry... ie not retail or grocery or anything like that. Jobs w/ benefits are becoming less and less... it's not just WalMart that doesn't offer them.

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                                                                  2. re: treb
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                                                                    ferret Aug 29, 2013 02:17 PM

                                                                    Sure in a fantasy universe where jobs fall off trees people can pick and choose the one that gives them the greatest benefits package. In the world I live in people have limited options. If you can't afford a car you have geographical limitations; if you have only a high school diploma or GED then you have other limitations; etc.

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                                                                    1. re: ferret
                                                                      jrvedivici Aug 29, 2013 03:06 PM

                                                                      It's nice living in a fantasy universe because you can make your own reality. I only have a high school diploma and have been self employed for 23 years in various capacities. I started my primary business when I was 20 years old, with the help of my father, who never finished high school. My father who went from being the son of a piss poor single mother prostitute, in Virginia, to a police officer, to working at Merrill Lynch, to owning several restaurants, taught me from a very young age, hard work pays off.

                                                                      I have worked hard my entire life and I have built upon what I have earned. I’m still the first one in the office in the morning and generally the last to leave. I have tried to set the same example my father had set for me into my own children and it’s with great pride that my daughter starts college next week. It’s difficult for them to understand the value of an education when they look at me, but I try to impress upon them that I am a rarity and at 43 years old if I fail, I have no future, literally. Who would hire in an executive position someone who has never “held” a job, and has no formal education? The biggest regret of my life is not obtaining a full education but I've never let that hold me back. I love when I interview people with BA’s or MBA’s and they ask me where I went to school, the look on their face, priceless!

                                                                      If Walmart or Fast Food is all you can get a job at, take the job and work it. Learn your job/trade then apply to Macy’s or Nordstrom or any other retailer, like Trader Joes. Not all jobs are careers there is a need for starting employment, training, and education about work. If someone decides to make that their career, to not aspire to do anything more, then so be it. Nobody if forcing them to stay in their positions, it might take time but there are ALWAYS opportunities.

                                                                      Is life more difficult if you don’t have an education, sure I’ll agree to that. Does it mean you can’t succeed, no, and I’ll meet anyone, anywhere to defy that notion.

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                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                        jarona Aug 29, 2013 05:02 PM

                                                                        You hold a doctorate in "Common Sense" and hard work. Beautiful!! Your words are excellent!

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                                                                        1. re: jarona
                                                                          jrvedivici Aug 29, 2013 05:23 PM

                                                                          Thank you very much.

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                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                            jarona Aug 30, 2013 09:14 AM

                                                                            Welcome!

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                                                                        2. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                          ferret Aug 30, 2013 11:25 AM

                                                                          Despite the myth of "no child left behind" many children grow into adults who are left behind. We are not all made from the same stuff or have the same abilities or potential (yes, our 2nd grade teachers were lying to us). So we won't all create the next must-have app, gadget or process and we all won't be CEOs/managers/directors, etc. There will always be a need for busboys, stock room employees, delivery persons and any number of untrained, unskilled positions. And there will always be a stream of people who will occupy those positions and not be on the ready promotion path.

                                                                          It's unrealistic and somewhat arrogant to say "I did it, so why can't they?"

                                                                          So yes, without a doubt there are many, many people who can find success through adversity, but that doesn't mean the majority will.

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                                                                          1. re: ferret
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                                                                            Hobbert Aug 30, 2013 11:29 AM

                                                                            Yes! It's foolish to think everyone can become anything they want through hard work. Sure, you can improve your life- I did it but, contrary to my mother's theory, I can't be anything I want. No amount of hard work is going to make me a physicist or an astronaut. Basic jobs need to be done and those people need to be treated fairly and make a living.

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                                                                            1. re: ferret
                                                                              jrvedivici Aug 30, 2013 11:55 AM

                                                                              I don't disagree with anything you are saying, we differ in the fact of your initial statement that people with just a high school diploma or GED have limitations. That's all.

                                                                              In my opinion, you are limited only if you allow yourself to be. Any obstacle can be overcome if you work hard enough at overcoming it. (outside obvious physical challenges).

                                                                              There is always a need for busboys, stock room employees, without a doubt, but there is not a need for a busboy, stock room employee to always remain in their current positions.

                                                                              I never said I did it so can anyone, I actually said I'm a rarity, I'm a rarity for most college educated people as well. What I'm saying is, I did it, SO CAN you. Not WHY CAN'T you.......I believe we should culture an environment in which we encourage people to strive for more. Not blame them for their circumstance's and lead them to believe they CAN"T do anything or to believe they are limited for any reason.

                                                                              I believe if people believe they are limited then it limits they ambition to succeed. "I don't have a college education, I can't become a CEO or business person", simply isn't true. Why let people believe that. They might not become a CEO, but why thwart their desire or ambition for trying by saying they have limitations. They have obstacles, yes, but those can be overcome. Again, in my opinion.

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                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                mcf Aug 30, 2013 12:46 PM

                                                                                "In my opinion, you are limited only if you allow yourself to be."

                                                                                Bluntly, some people are limited at birth by low intelligence and some are limited at some point by disabilities. Not all will necessarily fail to achieve, but there is a point in many, if not most cases, where those with low or below average intelligence will not. Environmental and other factors may apply to make it even less likely than their impairments alone might.

                                                                                Your experience is heart warming and all, and clearly you had the capacity to achieve given the gifts you were born with, including your father.

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                                                                                1. re: mcf
                                                                                  jrvedivici Aug 30, 2013 01:27 PM

                                                                                  C'mon mcf let's play and copy paste fair. One sentence after what you copy pasted I say;

                                                                                  " (outside obvious physical challenges)."

                                                                                  Again, my primary objection is to the statement that lack of a college education should be considered a limitation. There a many reasons why "some" people won't be able to certain things, but in fairness those are the minority of cases, and not whom my comments were directed.

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                                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                    mcf Aug 30, 2013 02:18 PM

                                                                                    "Again, my primary objection is to the statement that lack of a college education should be considered a limitation. "

                                                                                    But I didn't see that as your primary objection.

                                                                                    That was a point I ignored, since I rose to the top ranks of my own profession by working harder and smarter than my masters and PhD level peers. For me, that's a given.

                                                                                    But I had advantages over others, and so did you. They might include parenting, stability of having a home, role models, living in a geographical area with an assortment of opportunities, a good school system, access to very smart friends to learn stuff from as well. And the dumb luck to be born with adequate intelligence and stamina to support my ambitions.

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                                                                                    1. re: mcf
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                                                                                      genoO Sep 1, 2013 06:50 AM

                                                                                      Actually, the main advantage to success is desire to succeed.
                                                                                      I too have gone from a GED to owning my own resort business in Mexico in a mere 35 years.
                                                                                      When I worked in the "real world" it was first one in, last one out and push for the next level. Don't make excuses for when you dropped the ball and don't make the same mistake twice.

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                                                                                      1. re: genoO
                                                                                        mcf Sep 1, 2013 08:47 AM

                                                                                        No, that's not the main advantage, it's just a very helpful trait. One has to have certain skills and abilitiies to go with it first.

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                                                                                        1. re: genoO
                                                                                          Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:15 PM

                                                                                          Cogent advice for all the single moms out there.

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                                                                                  2. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                                    ferret Aug 30, 2013 01:48 PM

                                                                                    And again, in my opinion, not everyone is you. There are countless reasons why others can't achieve the same success and overcome the same obstacles as you. It's not just a matter of wanting it bad enough or working hard enough. So the suggestion that all people who are in low-paying jobs have options to escape their circumstances if they just follow these steps is a little condescending.

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                                                                                    1. re: ferret
                                                                                      jrvedivici Aug 30, 2013 02:09 PM

                                                                                      And again, I never said everyone was me, I've said repeatedly "I'm a rarity". If I felt everyone was me, I wouldn't be that rare would I?

                                                                                      Our only true difference comes down to this;

                                                                                      " It's not just a matter of wanting it bad enough or working hard enough."

                                                                                      I truly do believe it is a matter of wanting it and working hard for it. If you consider that condescending than I apologize for offending you. To be perfectly honest the reason why I believe in that, is because it's the only way to explain my entire life. We don't have to agree but I do respect your opinion.

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                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                        Josh Aug 30, 2013 03:23 PM

                                                                                        Tell that to any given single mother trying to scrape by on slave wages.

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                                                                                2. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                                  treb Sep 1, 2013 05:23 AM

                                                                                  Bravo, well stated.

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                                                                                  1. re: treb
                                                                                    Josh Sep 1, 2013 12:16 PM

                                                                                    People love fairy tales.

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                                                                                    1. re: Josh
                                                                                      linguafood Sep 1, 2013 02:58 PM

                                                                                      People love to hear what they already believe.

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                                                                    2. westsidegal Aug 20, 2013 01:13 PM

                                                                      josh: i totally concur with you on this.
                                                                      slave wages plus phoney "food" = i will not set foot in either a walmart nor a sams

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