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question about Pork

h
hackerpoako Aug 26, 2013 06:01 AM

hi can brine pork tenderloin, then marinate it? if so what marination/brine combo can i use? , im thinking of something like a red wine glaze, btw the starch is mashed potato tower

  1. JayL Aug 26, 2013 08:19 AM

    Why?

    1. h
      Harters Aug 26, 2013 08:29 AM

      I understand Americans brine meat to help tenderise it. Wouldnt have thought a tenderloin needed tenderising - it's the tenderest cut of pork, hence the name.

      14 Replies
      1. re: Harters
        TroyTempest Aug 26, 2013 09:11 AM

        It's very tender, yeah, but can dry out pretty easily. Maybe that's the motivation.

        1. re: TroyTempest
          juliejulez Aug 26, 2013 10:19 AM

          It only dries out if you cook it incorrectly. Not sure brining would help that.

          1. re: juliejulez
            TroyTempest Aug 26, 2013 11:23 AM

            Why? It helps with turkey.

            1. re: TroyTempest
              juliejulez Aug 26, 2013 11:31 AM

              I've had/made perfectly good turkeys without brining. I think it comes down to cooking it correctly. And, as already mentioned, there is no reason to do a brine AND a marinade. The marinade will take care of anything the brine would.

              1. re: juliejulez
                TroyTempest Aug 26, 2013 12:43 PM

                I agree. I never brine. And. i'd never brine and marinate, but some do brine, and they swear by it. It does help "their" turkey, pork chops, etc. stay moist.

                1. re: TroyTempest
                  mcf Aug 26, 2013 01:00 PM

                  It helps everyone's stay moister, and to cook faster, actually. I've never cooked a dried out turkey or chicken, but brining takes the flavor and texture to a wonderful, different level. That's one reason most folks find kosher chickens so much more tasty. http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/11/th...

                  1. re: mcf
                    Chemicalkinetics Aug 26, 2013 01:51 PM

                    So why is Kosher chicken same as brine chicken?

                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                      mcf Aug 26, 2013 01:56 PM

                      Brining is part of kosher processing.

                      1. re: mcf
                        Chemicalkinetics Aug 26, 2013 02:39 PM

                        Thanks. I didn't know that. I thought Kosher is about placing Kosher salt on the meat without liquid, whereas brining a chicken using do so in a brine (liquid). Let me know what you think. Thanks.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                          mcf Aug 26, 2013 04:24 PM

                          I've read both; dry salting, then a soak in cool water. My mother did it with whole chickens and left them salted overnight in the fridge before a good rinsing. Much more flavorful than unsalted or brined birds. There is a difference, but honestly, my dry brined turkeys are as brined as my soaked ones, so far.

                          1. re: mcf
                            fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 05:57 AM

                            I dry brine my whole chickens for a few days but never do this with pork tenderloin although I guess it couldn't hurt.

        2. re: Harters
          mcf Aug 26, 2013 12:38 PM

          Brining isn't for tenderizing, it's for flavor and moisture retention.

          1. re: mcf
            greygarious Aug 26, 2013 02:02 PM

            One of the things that makes meat tough is that heat causes the protein strands to shrink, forcing out the water that is contained in the meat. Brining makes the meat retain more water so in effect, it helps keep the meat tender. There are other tenderizing methods, like using a jaccard or pounding, both of which break up protein strands, and enzymatic and acidic tenderizing.

            1. re: greygarious
              mcf Aug 26, 2013 02:31 PM

              I've never noticed a softening of the meat that I associate with tenderizing, just a moister texture. I guess that can be perceived as tenderizing, but I associate that with breaking down fibers, which I usually don't like, unless it's pounding out flank or chicken for rollups or cutlets.

        3. j
          janniecooks Aug 26, 2013 09:28 AM

          A brine is essentially a marinade, just add spices/flavorings to the brine. No need to make it a two-step process.

          1. Chemicalkinetics Aug 26, 2013 11:38 AM

            Dumb question... can't you brine and marinate at the same time? Unless you want a very salty brine.

            2 Replies
            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
              C. Hamster Aug 26, 2013 07:22 PM

              Yes you can. Put your marinade ingredients into the brine with no added salt of any kind.

              The flavor or the marinade will permeate the protein through the salt water.

              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                hambone Aug 27, 2013 03:36 PM

                This is what I do with one of my turkeys each Thanksgiving. I brine/marinade in apple cider with seasoning (including a brine's worth of salt.)

                Works for me.

              2. greygarious Aug 26, 2013 12:26 PM

                No you cannot. Brine only if you are not doing a wet marinade. It's very common for marinades to include salty ingredients like soy sauce. That takes the place of the salt in a simple brine. You CAN do a simple brine, then rinse and dry the meat, then apply a dry rub or paste before cooking.
                The glaze need not be applied until the end of cooking.

                You are referring to your required cooking school demonstration, right? This is worrisome, because if you do not understand the concepts of marinating and brining, it seems you have not paid attention to lessons, or the school has an inferior curriculum and/or instructors. Frankly, from your Chowhound posts, it does not sound as though you are ready to cook professionally. If you aren't learning enough in class, there are books, like McGee's "On Food and Cooking", Corriher's "Cookwise", and Ruhlman's "Ratio", that you can study from.

                1. fldhkybnva Aug 26, 2013 02:31 PM

                  My first question was "why" as well. Pork tenderloins ar gorgeous tender pieces of meat, just don't over cook. I pull mine now at 135-140F and it rises a good 8-10 degrees usually and is a nice rosy pink and tender. Perhaps you could just marinate it?

                  6 Replies
                  1. re: fldhkybnva
                    c oliver Aug 26, 2013 05:05 PM

                    We do them on the grill and then only take about 15 minutes. And I agree with your temp and color.

                    1. re: fldhkybnva
                      TroyTempest Aug 27, 2013 07:31 AM

                      On ATK, they brine pork chops, so why not a pork loin.

                      1. re: TroyTempest
                        mcf Aug 27, 2013 07:41 AM

                        No reason, I think, just personal preference.

                        1. re: TroyTempest
                          c oliver Aug 27, 2013 08:00 AM

                          OP is talking about a pork tenderloin not a pork loin roast. Different cuts.

                          1. re: c oliver
                            fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 08:04 AM

                            Yea, pork tenderloin I never brine, I could see brining a pork loin roast but then again if you don't overcook it it's fine.

                            1. re: fldhkybnva
                              mcf Aug 27, 2013 10:41 AM

                              I just oil it and dry rub a while before grilling, or cut into medallions for a favorite salad recipe.

                      2. t
                        ThanksVille Aug 26, 2013 06:50 PM

                        Brining plus marinating seems like a lot of manipulation for a pork tenderloin; especially if you want it to retain any of its subtle pork flavor.

                        I do brine larger roasts (and turkeys) to help hydrate and internally season the meat but for a tenderloin the most I do is to rub the exterior with some olive oil and a good pork rub of herbs, pepper and kosher salt about an hour before grilling.

                        I have experimented with a few cider injections but found the liquid really did not disperse well into the muscle fibers. I also tried barding the tenderloin with thin sliced bacon...didn't notice any appreciable increase in retained moisture but did have a lot more flare ups to contend with.

                        Grilled over a smokey fire burning a couple apple wood chunks, I lightly baste the tenderloin with some melted butter at the start and end of the grilling. Target internal temp of 145 then tent and rest for 5 minutes. Always juicy, tastes like well seasoned pork with a hint of smoke.

                        1. C. Hamster Aug 26, 2013 07:27 PM

                          Brine and "marinate" at the same time by flavoring your brine with very strong flavors. If the flavors involve salt (eg, soy sauce) account for that when you make up the brine

                          I do this all the time.

                          The process of brining will suck the flavor into the protein,

                          The main factors are:

                          Make your flavors very bold

                          Account for your salt. At the end of the day it should taste like salt water.

                          1. c oliver Aug 26, 2013 08:59 PM

                            Not in a million, gazillion years does a pork tenderloin need anything to tenderize it. Stop it :) If there's a more tender piece of meat, I don't know what it is.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: c oliver
                              fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 05:57 AM

                              I agree it's quite delicious. I don't even brine my pork loin, if not overcooked it's wonderful and porky.

                            2. h
                              hackerpoako Aug 27, 2013 10:17 AM

                              guys how about if a brine it and marinate it at the same time.. ? can i put dried herbs and olive oil
                              in the brine solution?

                              7 Replies
                              1. re: hackerpoako
                                mcf Aug 27, 2013 10:42 AM

                                Herbs yes, that's usually, or often done. Oil, not so much. Use that during cooking.

                                1. re: hackerpoako
                                  greygarious Aug 27, 2013 11:49 AM

                                  You really don't understand the concepts of brining and marinating and since you are graduating from culinary school in the Philippines (as you wrote in your other threads), you should try these things out so you learn what works and what doesn't. Hint - oil and water don't mix. Waste of olive oil. Only molecules small enough to be carried in the water will have a chance of flavoring the meat.
                                  Not to mention that a tenderloin does not need brining because it is already - duh - *tender*.

                                  1. re: hackerpoako
                                    c oliver Aug 27, 2013 11:50 AM

                                    h, you don't need to brine OR marinate a pork tenderloin. Period. You could reasonably brine almost any other part of the pig but NOT the tenderloin. I just put whatever seasoning I want on it with some oo.

                                    1. re: c oliver
                                      fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 01:02 PM

                                      Sear, in the oven, done.

                                      1. re: fldhkybnva
                                        c oliver Aug 27, 2013 01:12 PM

                                        On the grill, 15 minutes, done :)

                                        1. re: fldhkybnva
                                          greygarious Aug 27, 2013 02:02 PM

                                          OP has been posting for weeks, over several threads. His culinary school assignment requires a complicated prep with lots of flourishes. Hence the reference to the "mashed potato tower", although Richard Dreyfuss did that decades ago in Close Encounters ;-P. It wasn't pretty then and I don't imagine it will favorably impress this time, either.

                                          1. re: greygarious
                                            C. Hamster Aug 28, 2013 12:33 PM

                                            Oh this is the guy that says he 's in school in the Phillipinnes one day and Singapore the next?

                                    2. EarlyBird Aug 27, 2013 10:48 AM

                                      Create a nice marinade and inject the meat. You will get the moisture and flavor you want right into the meat. Then season the outside of the meat as you wish, keeping in mind any amount of salt that you've included in your injected marinade.

                                      Marinades don't penetrate the meat. At all.

                                      http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/ru...

                                      Best of all, master the technique of cooking this tricky piece of pork so you won't have to worry about dryness.

                                      14 Replies
                                      1. re: EarlyBird
                                        c oliver Aug 27, 2013 11:53 AM

                                        I think some of the posters here misread the OP. It's a pork TENDERloin. Not a thing tricky about it except don't over cook. As mentioned above, cook to maybe 140 and it will be slightly pink inside which is perfect.

                                        1. re: c oliver
                                          fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 01:03 PM

                                          Exactly, I remove at 135F. Also to OP I enjoy them whole as well as they butterfly and stuff well too.

                                          1. re: fldhkybnva
                                            h
                                            Harters Aug 28, 2013 10:06 AM

                                            I also stuff - usually prunes & garlic; sometimes also with a little sage. Then roast - 180C for around 25 - 30 minutes.

                                          2. re: c oliver
                                            EarlyBird Aug 27, 2013 03:48 PM

                                            They dry out easily though, don't they? They are a very lean cut.

                                            1. re: EarlyBird
                                              c oliver Aug 27, 2013 03:57 PM

                                              As I've mentioned, I cook for about 15 minutes to an internal temp of 135 to 140. Beautifully tender. Every time. Promise :)

                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 04:16 PM

                                                And again, i agree. I usually do quick sear roast at 375F for 15 minutes, checking carefully as they are always variable sizes. I remove at 135 to 140 and it's pink moist and tender. I promise as well. You really should give it a try without brining or marinating, it's quite tasty. I'm sure tons of marinades would work great as well, but no fear you don't have to do either. I've cooked it a few degrees less than this as well and same result and no Trichinella.

                                                 
                                                1. re: fldhkybnva
                                                  c oliver Aug 27, 2013 04:33 PM

                                                  That looks amazing! What did you stuff with please?

                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                    fldhkybnva Aug 27, 2013 04:41 PM

                                                    it's so simple - pesto with a cheese of your choice, I usually use something other than Parmesan to add flavor to the cheese already in the pesto and then wrapped with pancetta. I will often stuff with a simple combination of some sauteed vegetable with onions or garlic or mushrooms with or without cheese. A great version that we made last week was pork tenderloin Saltimbocca stuffed with sage and Fontina cheese and served with a lemon sauce. I love to stuff meats and I often choose pork tenderloin because it's much easier than chicken given the wider surface area and less frustration keeping everything inside.

                                                    1. re: fldhkybnva
                                                      c oliver Aug 27, 2013 08:48 PM

                                                      Everything you suggest sounds great. I've never done one like this but now I will. Thanks.

                                                      1. re: c oliver
                                                        fldhkybnva Aug 28, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                        It's also wonderful with some Herbes de Provence for a salad.

                                                2. re: c oliver
                                                  EarlyBird Aug 28, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                  How do you cook it, on the grill, roasted in the oven, a pan?

                                                  1. re: EarlyBird
                                                    c oliver Aug 28, 2013 10:24 AM

                                                    Almost always roasted on the grill. I do have a recipe that I haven't fixed in years that has apples and is done on the stovetop in a skillet with a lid.

                                                    1. re: EarlyBird
                                                      fldhkybnva Aug 28, 2013 10:29 AM

                                                      I've done it on the grill but we rarely use our grill. I've made it countless times in the oven - sear a few minutes each side then roast at 375F for 15-20 minutes.

                                                  2. re: EarlyBird
                                                    mcf Aug 28, 2013 11:04 AM

                                                    Not if you buy heritage pork; they haven't been bred for leanness.

                                              2. r
                                                rjbh20 Aug 28, 2013 10:42 AM

                                                Forget the brining & marinating and just keep it simple. And don't overcook it. BTW -- what is a mashed potato tower?

                                                 
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