Roberta's is 261 Moore St Brooklyn,NY, near the Morgan stop on the L Train.
I was expecting an exterior that exuded Italian design.
Did not get that. I actually had a deja vu from my mnemonic apparatus, stemming from Williamsburg Brooklyn in 1998.
Pizza was good. The dough was so very flavorful, and delicious, as were the toppings.
The ribs were sweet. I would have preferred nothing close to sweet. They were coated with good portion of meat. Other guests at my table found them quite good, really good. I am not a rib enthusiast.
The mussels may have been lacking, but not quite sure what.
I would have loved Peroni or Moretti, or even the Greek Alfa (to keep it Mediterranean).
The biggest problem with this place is the myth of Craft American Beer. That was all they had for beer.
Sure, its beer, but the craft results in missing good taste.
I do not know if Roberta is implying Italian or Spanish, or even if she exists as a person associated with the establishment. Seeing that pizza is the main fare, many associate this with Italy. That is usually the case, unless it comes in a box, then Budweiser or Coors, or ones favored US Craft Beer would be expected to be permissible. In a restaurant with such a refined taste of their pizza, a proper beer would have been good. Peroni would be the preferred. Greek beers also go well with pizza.
re: didactic katydid
re: didactic katydid
I do think that this sentence does point to some seriousness regarding development, neighborhood transformation, etc. whether one agrees with the statement or not.
"Roberta's is much preferred to what seems to be a cookie cutter affect manifest in venues from Bushwich to places such as Ft Greene, Cobble Hill etc. "
What happens in the so called gentrification, is a homogenizing affect. All follows the Park Slope cookie cutter.
This is why all the 'Old Town' in Europe, and now Eastern Europe to some extent, may be great places to party on occasion, but are places to avoid, as they may be referred to as Dinsey-fication.
NPR had a report on the Orange-fication of suburban America.
re: didactic katydid
Well, for those of us in the discussion about beer, I did a search and found a website that collects the beer menus of establishments.
I did find this, Pacific Standard Bar, Boerum Hill.
There are 16 beers on tap. They all are American, and Sierra Nevada being the one prolonged and perhaps a wider distribution.
Interesting. The site is discriminatory. I think that it may be part of marketing for one distributor of this style of beer.
Woodwork Brooklyn in a more diverse community, does offer hope for those who have a party exhibiting diverse tastes.
Empire White Aphro competes with Radeberger Pilsnerand Brooklyn Lager on tap.
Strongbow Cider, a long favor of mine, over the pale and too sweet American counterparts, is offered in a can.
Bottles of Karlovacko Pivo is just what it is. Pivo.
Out of all the Pivos on offer, pardon my poor broken Polish, some my be disappointed at Woodwork, though it is a more suitable offering than at Roberta's, and Pacific Standard, though only considering the market that one is aiming for.
Profit margins and distributors both fall into being elements that contribute to the results, what is on tap and on offer.
Thus if there is any blame someone desires to level for beer menus, the blame's destination is a variegated one.
Pacific Standard is a California bar. So yeah, their beer selection is exclusively from breweries on the West Coast. That is intentional.
Woodwork is a football (soccer) bar. So I believe their beer selection tends to lean more towards European Lagers. And point of fact, Karlovacko is Croatian, not Polish.
About 10 years ago a NYC bartender explained to me that there were two major beer distributors in NYC, and you could tell which bar restaurant had which based on their selection. The two indicative beers were Brooklyn Lager and Sam Adams. Distributor A carried Brooklyn Lager, while Distributor B carried Sam Adams. With a few exceptions, you'd never see both in the same bar.
Then, as now, there were bars that went the extra mile to acquire a wider selection of beers. But for the most part if a bar just went with a default selection, it would be either A or B. And that's still the case.
PacStand, Woodwork, and about 100 other bars in Brooklyn do go beyond the default beer choices. But even so, with only 10-20 taps (or whatever) they can't cover all aesthetics and some places try to curate their lists seasonally, regionally, topically, etc.
Thank you for the correction.
That is some really good information, that explains much.
Pivo is the word for beer, in Poland, as well as other Slavic rooted languages use Pivo, including Slovenia and other Balkan.
I had jumped too soon, simply due to Polish beer being in front of me often.
I had a good dark beer in Croatia. It had a red label.
I believe in a polyglot of distributors. The playing field should feature many independents, as opposed to a few dominants.
I think of regions that just have Sysco as a food distributor. All the foods of restaurants in such an area, are basically the same.
Beer market is different than supplies for a kitchen. None the less, the principle is competition reduces prices, and drives creativity....diversity.
I am not so Sam Adams. Never was. Brooklyn is good. Drank it much before, sometimes now.
Sam Adams is a highly over-rated beverage. Of course this is not the point of the discussion.
BeerMenus is community driven. Many shops and bars are now using it to update their own tap/growler lists rather than post on their websites. I have a friend who runs a craft beer shop and he uses it. It's great for finding new releases, seasonal releases, and whatever beer you have a hankering for. Bars and shops seemed to be getting better at keeping the lists fresh.
There is no craft beer conspiracy. That's just fucking stupid to even float that. The marketing budget of all craft breweries combined is but a mere drop in the bucket of AB-Inbev, the mega-brewer of your pet favorite Stella Artois and Budweiser. The market is driving the demand for craft beers, because as noted by squid kun above, there are many people who have different tastes beyond mega rice lagers, ubiquitous national lagers, and Strong Bow Cider.
It's also quite well-known that American craft brewers are inspiring European and Asian brewers who are bored of th. It's not unusual to meet Europeans in the good beer bars in the city. And they are all over the beer forums...Burgeoning craft beer scene in Japan as well.
"There is no craft beer conspiracy."
I did not read anything about conspiracy. Not on this thread.
I concluded in the dialogue and hope that others caught it, that the mass market of post war (WWII) America created such a glut poor quality in the beer market, eventually (I am not a historian) people began what became the microbrewing industry. By the early 1990s, microbrew pubs dotted the continent.
Craft beer is just that.
I have bough six packs of differing brews, all craft or microbrew, from California to the south, and mid west, and in the Northeast. I have also partaken of tap craft of varying kinds.
I find that I prefer the bottled ales I used to purchase from the markets in England. I also prefer beers I have mentioned I like in posts.
There is a debate about 'hop'.
I was with a friend, and he usurped my free will and I submitted to his demands and found myself in a bar of his choosing. He was trying to re-educate me. One of his arguments was "this beer's tastes causes one to drink slower, so one does not get rolling drunk."
Eventually, on his second of his choice.....said "this is so bitter, actually too bitter."
He inquired at the bar for a brown or a dark. They sort of satisfied his recently adjusted requirements.
There is a renaissance of sorts, and there is a market for the manifestations being produced from the activities of the renaissance in American brewing. Some like the results, and others may not.
Well you alluded to a marketing conspiracy of sorts and some crap about Madison Avenue's influence. So just own your words instead of weaseling away.
Anyway, I agree with you, doesn't sound like you're the one to offer historical perspective on beer. And I agree with your friend insofar as you probably are trying to compensate for a lack of insight but feigning connoisseurship of macro-beers in a effort to position yourself as a contrarian.
I can understand the backlash vs. hoppy beers and it's obvious that IPAs formed the vanguard for craft beer exploration in the U.S.- perhaps to a point of overkill. However I think it is pretty obvious we've moved beyond that. Experimentation with sours, interesting yeast strains, even mix of different type of hops, are exciting current trends. Not to mention a movement for brewers to make lower ABV, though still nicely flavored, session beers.
I like an old world mug of liquid bread from time to time or a couple cans of Coors Light after playing a double-header in 90 degree weather. So I'm not knocking anyone's drinking habits. But to pan the whole craft beer industry as if it is a "myth"? That's just lame.
As for Madison Avenue, that is a buzz word for advertising and marketing. I stated "My taste for beer, is defined by my tongue, and not claims of anyone, be they another person with a tongue, or Madison Avenue. I have gone through phases as well. "
It does happen that television and print ads affect people. Pop Tart consumption depends solely on such. Why, it certainly is not the unique flour used or its absence that drives people's arms and hands to the shelf, grabbing the colourful box, and allowing it to fall into a cart.
Beer ads could have such a power, and actually do.
The craft beer phenomena is just that. It is craft.
It is always in the process of creating, ditching, dispatching, etc. This may be the reason for some to detour away from such.
Others love it.
Craft beer, Its a young craft, with many enthusiasts.
I understand it, but just because I do not prefer its resulting marketed beers, does not exclude me from an honest and intelligent dialogue about beers.
I have never taken to whiskey drinking, but have UK and Asian friends who love it, and are true connoisseurs. An immediate family member studied in Glasgow, and upon return, exhibited a love and acumen for tasting Scotch whisky. Seems that the adventuring in microwbrew-craft may spring patterns analogous to bourbon or scotch drinking, in regards to the art of appreciation.
"Experimentation with sours, interesting yeast strains, even mix of different type of hops, are exciting current trends. "
-This brings my mind to a friend who is not only a home brewer, but a home baker, and a lay maker of brick ovens. He and I differ in our beer preferences domestically, but meet in our habits regarding foreign beers.
Weihenstephan I just read from wikipedia, is the oldest commercial brand from Europe.
I have long preferred that beer, over most, if ever I find it in bottle or on tap. There may be something to such a taste driven factor.
Rolf's is a great place.
I do not know what a "double hitter...header" is, but yes, 90 degrees can make a can of Coors quite good.
'Double header' this must be regarding cyclops.
I thought such was a myth?
Do they consume alcohol?
"But to pan the whole craft beer industry as if it is a "myth"? That's just lame."
Well, in discussion, to make a point a person may use hyperbole.
But, thus said, there has been much clarification at this point.
re: Peter Cuce
Beer is never a "joke", nor is discussion of such.
egit has brought some very good information to the discussion. Whether it is correct, I have not a clue. Makes much sense though. And the statements regarding markets being determined by client base of the establishments I found on Beermenu website explains much.
Thus said, I will add that Chinese beer is very under-represented here in the US.
The 青岛 Qing Dao beer here is an export, and it is totally different from the 青岛 beer sold in Mainland China.
The 青岛 here is brewed in a style to have a taste similar to Heineken. That has long been fact, as long as I can remember.
The China market for beer is huge, in China. Each Province has many brewing companies. It is typically lager or pils style....larger typically, and some are quite good. It is fun to find the favored beer in particular Provinces.
Bud and Coors and Hini 12 oz are in clubs though.
I especially like buying cans of Taiwan beer, and engage in the behavior that older gentlemen did in decades past, when drinking Taiwan beer.
That is to use canned tomato juice, pour a bit into the beer, making it 1 /4 or 1/ 3 tomato juice.
The bottled Taiwan beer sold here, in the US, with the same label, is totally different from what is sold with the same label in Taiwan. The import to US has a flavor in the direction of German beer of sorts.
The Polish, mostly women, use a homemade 100% pure berry or fruit concentrate, just a touch in the bottom of the glass, before pouring in the pint and some ounce bottle into the glass. They do this in summer time. It is delicious, and as aesthetic as the women drinking it.
I like Hite. I prefer it over Cass and O.B.
China's market is so big. Some is quite good.
Lao Beer is good. I very like.
Vietnamese beer is quite good. There have been small brewers, without all the frilly marketing that does exist today in newer ones. The newer ones and the older ones are so good.
I prefer one in Hanio. Very no frills bar. Their own brew is served alongside other bottled and what-not.
Julbrew, from Gambia is better than the La Gazelle from Senegal. Julbrew gets its name from Banjul. I was quite displeased with La Gazelle.
If one cares to one can purchase Guinness from Guinness Nigeria, in West African shops in the US and Europe.
The market in the West at least is quite good.
All those beers are lousy, made by dudes in cheap jumpsuits, in big breweries that will use rice to cheapen the cost of what they are making. At least Lao beer will use an interesting type of rice that gives the beer a nice floral nose and soft taste.......Singha brewed in Thailand however does use all malt.
Chang Beer is good. It is featured at New York City Thai restaurants for 2 dollars. It is one of the few reasons to visit such restaurants.
I find fruitful for reading and drinking sessions what seems to be a cookie cutter interior of Thai restaurants (narrow with military row tables for dining all facing the same direction; modern look).
Pardon my use of the term cookie cutter, as I have used it also in descriptions of what have been internalized by management and owners as standards in other realms of the food service industry.
Chang Beer does the trick for a casual beverage, coupled with (or drank before hand) leaf tea that is served in some of these Thai places.
These Thai places function as wonderful cafes for coffee tea and 2 dollar Thai beer.
And given the cookie cutter in recent designing of interior, an atmosphere that is to this cafe frequenter's taste, comfortable.
I just wish the jump-suits would be worn by the servers. I want the Guantanamo Bay detention camp feel while reading, visiting with a friend or two, or simply taking up space and drinking beer, made by people donning the same attire. That would create a continuity between the servers and the brewers.
Singha, to me, tastes as if there had been some desire to model the taste on a European beer, but with poor results. Have not had it in a while, but that was my impression long ago, and never quite found the need for further remembrances. A turn off, in some ways, but nice classic looking label.
Again, love Lao Beer.
Hahaha, well I don't think anyone here will need to make a mental stretch to imagine you in a scenario where you must be attended on by people in jump-suits. But that's neither here nor there-
...which is also the expression I would use to describe your experience eating Thai food in NYC as you've already mentioned in some other thread you haven't been to the well-regarded Thai restaurants in Queens....Chang is cheap, even in Thailand. That's because rice is cheaper than barley...Singha is brewed with all barley malt. Yes, like and sometimes better than some Euro macro-beers.
Back to Italy- look for beers from Baladin, an excellent craft brewer. Though they are mostly specialty beers and a bit expensive. Lovely bottle designs though.
I did state that "Chang Beer does the trick for a casual beverage"
Of course that is all. I have never had a taste extraveganza with it. It's flavor is not some unrestrained unleashing of anything other than a "casual beverage".
I will take your recommendation above.
The Italians are amazing with craft. From working with cloth, timepieces, to vehicles construction, and of course, sound.
My amplifier bought in Taiwan came from Italian. It was handcrafted in Albuzzono Italy. Like a Puccini Opera, performance is amazing.
Docet Lector if you are wondering. Taiwan is a more open market than the US is. Their beer may be made by jump suit clad men, but the market provides for those with high regards to quality, in many areas, not least imported beer, wine and audio equipment.
Music goes along with beer, for me anyway. So, what recording do you recommend during a libation using Baladin.
Let me replace that query, and ask: what [food] do you recommend during a libation using Baladin.
"Taiwan is a more open market than the US is."
No, it's the complete opposite. There are more than 2,000 beer brewers in the United States, plus reasonably priced imports from everywhere. Taiwan Beer is produced by the state owned Taiwan Tobacco & Liquor Corporation, which controls 2/3 of the entire domestic market. It controlled more than that prior to 2002 when Taiwan was forced to change some laws in order to enter the WTO. Just read that....I've been to Taiwan. Nice people. The beer fucking sucks. Not a strong beer drinking culture. And I think Japan holds a higher regard for beer, wine, and anything electronic. If you want to argue Taiwan vs. Japan or USA, you can email me to continue such a convo.
Back to Roberta's- for anyone not named junkyo- while they don't list their beers of the moment they list some great brewers that they will rotate through including locals like Capt. Lawrence & Sixpoint, other NY stuff from Defiant and Greenport, Victory from Penn, a great midwestern brewer called Two Brothers, some West coast stuff, Avery out of Colorado, and some solid imports including an Italian outfit called Del Ducato. Never heard of them. Would like to give them a try.
Love restaurants that care about beer. $20 for two hour AYCD deals of any two taps for group events is awesome. I have to book those type of events a few times a year and will def check them out for this alone...They have a few pages of wine listings as well.
im a little disappointed with this post, frankly. you, jonkyo, are one of the most entertaining posters on these boards and Roberta's is near and dear to my heart. This effort, while strong on the stream of consciousness, seemed to overly conflate the beverages of southern europe with the nomadic hipsterati of bushwick, brooklyn. you say "the craft results in missing good taste" like the artisinal production process lacks ownership and agenda, but profess your affection for Peroni, the affliction of which is not unknown outside its native Italy.
from your expectations that italian design and moretti beer would be found in such a place one must only infer that those same expectations were built upon altruistic but utterly misguided ideologies of trendy pizza. a nod to italy, if perhaps only a cursory one, requires none of these affectations, just ironic facial hair and a surplus of semi-entertaining and very possibly badly drawn tattoos.
although it may not have lived up to some previous efforts, thank you for the report. Did you ask any of the servers why they do not stock greek beers, or if they would, perhaps, ponder the potential possibility of doing the same?
Please do not jump to conclude any such opinions regarding nomadic 'hipsterati' or tattooed facial hair.
It was early in the day we arrived for our visitation to this creatively established venue. Hence the recalling of the more bohemian (with a lower case b) phase of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, upon matching Roberta's actual location with its name. A definite semiotic somersault, in regards to the signifier "Roberta's".
I am sure Ferdinand de Saussure and Peirce would even be surprised.
But than again, it all goes back to the DADA-ist.
Capitalism long laid claims of marketing such, though.
Roberta's is much preferred to what seems to be a cookie cutter affect manifest in venues from Bushwich to places such as Ft Greene, Cobble Hill etc.
Homogeneity is nice when its hundreds of years old, such as in Europe, Russia, Lebanon, South East Asia, or even the forests or mountains of South America. For the modern human, it spells mediocratic murder of creativity.
"artisinal production process" results from those caught in modernity, endeavoring to recreate in semblance, what modernity and mass production culture has destroyed.
It is all about "ownership and agenda", as ownership (and quality) is its agenda . It is also about identity be the creators hipsterati or a Cartesian dialectic obsessed alienated disposals of a lost geographically / ethnically founded line of descendants, ie: European American.
It is better to simply find what has survived, or what has not been destroyed.
Though, for the ego driven consciousnesses of participants, these artisanal or craft endeavors , what I call boutique endeavors, serve to fulfill urges of creativity, fashion in the general sense, critique, and profit.
It is also humans stifled by modernity, shattering the stifle through a dialectic with history and the mass industrialization of food.
In the simplest of terms, the craft or artisan phenomena is about redemption in an era of lost traditions.
So, if I understand you correctly, you were disappointed in Roberta's beer list.
I also dislike the American Craft habit of over-hopping everything. But frankly, if you think Yuengling is the epitome of palatable American beer... well, all I can say is you and I have very different taste in beer.
I also enjoy a Moretti or a Peroni in an Italian restaurant when there's nothing else that interests me.
I shall explain. Yuengling is something I take in some establishements. The last I remember was Smalls, the Jazz venue in the Village. Beer adventuring for taste was not at all the point, by the time we arrived.
Of course Stella Artois is the generic beer, so to speak that I am accustomed, for those late nights early morning bar crawling. Of course, if at all possible, I take to the beers I very much appreciate, it on offer, in such bar hopping.
Bud is not too bad. It depends what kind of pizza, and were. If in a hotel, Papa John's can be delivered, and it is my recommendation that a surplus of Bud be available. At least three to four beers consumed before it arrived.
I for myself may take a Bud with my New York Style Pizza. With NY Style Pizza, a bud can be good.
My opinion is that it is best to drink a lager, or a pils with Italian food.
Here is an earlier thread I just pulled up. I have yet to peruse it, but thought I would offer it here.
Augie6 Feb 9, 2011 07:52 AM
Beer with Italian food
"Four raw days after his dealth, colleagues and neighbors gathered at Union Pool......they spoke harshly of Williansburg that had become more driven by money and reminisced about his generosity" NYT 8/25/13.
If you read yesterday's Metropolitan section of the Sunday New york Times, you will have seen the very sad story of Dressler's owner who committed suicide.
(see page 6 cont. from bottom of front page)
Due to my averse reaction to trends, I find the above quote quite relevant, being totallty applicable to creativity establishing these businesses and acquiring a loyal costumer base, and what may come from the fever caused by an area's newly found artistic aspects.
I am not familiar with much that is talked about, such a Diner on Broadway opened by a Frith, and Rye somewhere in Williamsburg opened by one of Colin Devlin's cooks.
Couldn't agree more about choices on the beer menu. Roberta's serves the neighborhood and beyond, and it's a crowd seeking the best of all worlds, be they pizza-beer-salad, charcuterie, atmo, etc. But let's not forget price and profit.
Why serve a $3 bottle of Bud when there's a $7 local, farm-to-tap pilsener or lager available, curated alongside the crafty IPA, gueze, Red ale or Porter? Myth, you say? Have you compared the complexities / flavor profiles / ingredients of craft with their cheaper, more traditional counterparts - foreign or domestic?
It's Bushwick, one of our most historic American brewing villages. There may no longer be the distinctive, corny taste of a 50-cent Rheingold Extra Dry around, but I'd sure love to order one (or three) of them, right now. And would alternate that one with a solid Kelso Bourbon-barrel aged Industrial IPA anytime.
re: Mike R.
My taste for beer, is defined by my tongue, and not claims of anyone, be they another person with a tongue, or Madison Avenue. I have gone through phases as well.
I simply know what tastes good, to my tongue, and I elaborate on the reasoning in a logical manner.
No I have not "compared the complexities / flavor profiles / ingredients of craft with their cheaper, more traditional counterparts - foreign or domestic?" I would do such if a distributor and a cable network, offered to support such through financing a reality TV show based on the endeavor you so inquired about ....jest.
Residing in England, I also found myself in the habit of choosing a pub to drink in, based on two qualifications: smiling females behind the bar serving; and what the pub actually was serving from their taps.
Not all pubs qualified. The main point was the beer flowing from the taps. That is really my point. Even in England, taste dictated excluding some, while including others.
The same here, and other places, be it Zurich, Zagreb, Mabini, Wyckoff, Verick, Insa-dong, etc.
I do prefer Hite over O.B., for the record.
I encounter the same problem with Mexican beer as I do with so called American Craft Beer. That is not too thrilled with the offerings. Thus stated, I am endeared to much Mexican, such as Emiliano Zapata, lengua tacos, the movies of Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, and of course la belleza de las mujeres mexicanas (google helped me with that. I am not proficient with Spanish.
Bohemia is not a bad beer though.
>My taste for beer, is defined by my tongue, and not claims of anyone, be they another person with a tongue, or Madison Avenue.
Have you considered the possibility that fans of American craft brewing choose beers in much the same way, though based on preferences that differ from yours, and aren't merely succumbing to marketing?
re: squid kun
I see this in some cases, more as culture, in the true sense of the word's meaning, which is cultivate. Of course craft beer in the US is going to be distinctively different from practices based on centuries of brewing. It is like comparing a Corvette to a TVR or an Aston Martin...Porsche, etc.
I have heard people in the USA (American people) state that American craft / microbrew is overly hoppy. I found this: "Against Hoppy Beer - Slate Magazine"
I have not the taste for the craft beers. This is similar to the 'too hoppy' factor, I find them excessive in certain flavors. One might say less refined and balanced, but that may not be fair: 不公平 (bugongping as the chinese say).
If anything, this discussion may have found an identifying element in American craft beer / microwbrew beer, and that is accentuating certain singular flavors or a fusion of flavors. This would be accenting.
Compare a Innis & Gunn whiskey barrel to Kelso Bourbon-barrel aged Industrial IPA . When you do, see if the 'particulars of the American brew' is something present to one extent or another, in other American craft beers. Brewers learn from each other.
I for my taste would go for a Badger (from the UK) or a Beamish (Irish), over much I have tasted in past and recent, of American craft/micro beers.
醉好 would be a number of Polish bottled beers.
That is a character era, for humor purposes.
最好 (zuihao) is 'best'.
醉好 (zuihao) is 'drunk good'. Not really a word until now.
Both 醉 and 最 are forth tone.
re: squid kun
"American craft brewing choose beers in much the same way, though based on preferences that differ from yours, and aren't merely succumbing to marketing?"
Could this be similar to wine?
Wine may be different, or maybe not.
I found for a time, Australian wines so good, after I had been in a region for long that was cut off from imported wines. After a while, something became quite apparent about the wines from Australia, and always carrying on with talk about wine when buying, I was told they tend towards using huge metal storage in Australia, and this tends to do something to make something common many of the wines.
So, in this way, practices do impinge on taste.
"succumbing to marketing?" or allegiances to trends.
Artisan bread is quite good. Again, a trend that is trying to recapture something lost, due to mass market and mass production. And again, dissimilar to European breads.
It was Blue Mountain Pils. My taste buds got used to it, after the second glass, but maybe that is to say, put up with it.
I am not in any way a snob. I simply know that American craft beer, as in the past, the Microbrews, lack much.
If one is used to beers from places with long traditions, that go back over 200 years, these beers are not palatable, at all.
It is a shame that many venues about, only have US Craft Beer. This is due to marketing.
The Snapples is sold because places get a few cooler with a glass door. Does not make Snapples anything more than being similar to powdered Kool Aid.
The craft beers are marketed as 'craft'. Domestically there is a huge deficit in the population, even in the management of venues. That deficit is knowledge of good tasting beer.
I should have just pounded cans of bud. It would have been cheaper, and more pleasurable than Blue Mountain.
I might add that that deficit is due to marketing.
Years ago, during the microbrew craze, I found location the best to pull from. my meaning is stick to beers from the location one is in, then filter out all but the one that suits. I found an amber ale from Nutfield Brewing Company to be good. Also found Seadog from Maine. Ommegang opened and they beat even the New England beers. This is purchases to be consumed in the home, or someone else's home.
Out and about, if Yuengling is on tap, I prefer to take this.
I had a discussion about beer just this weekend, with a woman here from Poland, only for the summer. She agreed that America beer is lacking.
But, again, here is a woman from a place that produced beer, when North America had yet to have their indigenous population depopulated by the germ that caused Franz Schubert and Friedrich Nietzsche to become crazy or clinically hysteria.