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Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 30 Year Warranty Questions

k
KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 10:21 AM

Has anyone here used the warranty on any of their Demeyere cookware?

What's their service like?

  1. k
    KungPaoDumplings Sep 2, 2013 09:58 AM

    Is anyone interested/does anyone want me to ask for their full warranty terms?

    1. k
      KungPaoDumplings Sep 2, 2013 09:56 AM

      I thought I'd post this here in case anyone was interested.

      In reply to my last message from Demeyere I asked them if they'd ever consider capping/covering the aluminum on the conical saute pans and the Proline fry pans so that corrosion didn't have a chance to occur and this is what they replied with:

      Dear Sir,

      We really appreciate your comment in order to improve our products.

      Please note it is an ongoing R&D project, but the existing technologies do not yet provide a satisfying result.

      Meanwhile we remain,


      With kind regards,

      DEMEYERE COMM.V.

      Annick Van Vugt

      Management Assistant

      -Secretariat-

      Atealaan 63
      2200 Herentals

      BELGIUM

      Phone: +32 14 285 212
      Fax: +32 14 285 222

      info@demeyere.be

      www.demeyere.be



      VAT BE0400.853.884, RPR Turnhout, KBO 0400.853.884.

      2 Replies
      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
        DuffyH Sep 2, 2013 03:59 PM

        Hey! They're working on it. That's a good thing. :)

        1. re: DuffyH
          k
          KungPaoDumplings Sep 2, 2013 04:04 PM

          I got that from it too, it's nice to know that it is on the table.

      2. l
        laraffinee Aug 31, 2013 11:44 AM

        I just pulled out my Demeyere warranty and there isn't a word about dishwasher usage in the warranty section.

        In the section about caring for your cookware, they do recommend hand washing, because of the caustic chemicals in dishwashing detergent. I hand wash all my pots and pans anyway, so this is no big deal for me.

        I have no idea what cookware is best for someone who wanst to put it all in the dishwasher. I do put my Corning Pyroceram in the dishwasher, but that is a special glass product.

        1. k
          KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 11:34 AM

          So, I've been trying to contact Demeyere (They haven't gotten back to me yet), because I wanted to collect a bit of information for this website and this thread specifically.

          I asked them if running Demeyere cookware through the dishwasher voids the warranty (Basically on full principal, whether or not your pots and pans get banged or something. Just the concept of the use of the machine and the detergent).

          I wanted to collect this information because Demeyere says they are dishwasher safe, but recommend hand washing and I am not certain if by warranty standards they would consider dishwasher use as abuse of their cookware as some companies and brands do.

          As I'm waiting for Demeyere to get back to me, has anyone ever asked them before? Does anyone know the answer that Demeyere would say is the terms of their warranty on this dishwashing matter?

          It'd certainly be interesting to know, especially for future CHs looking for the information before buying the cookware, since no one wants to void their warranty because of two separate statements being made and it has such a simple solution to avoid voiding it.

          20 Replies
          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
            k
            KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 07:53 AM

            This is what they replied with:

            Dear Sir,

            Thanks for your e-mail of August 22nd concerning our warranty.

            As the Atlantis range has a hermetically welded capsule bottom, it is 100% dishwasher safe. Only when aluminum is exposed, as with our frying pans (Proline) and conic sauté pans, the product risks to corrode, caused by aggressive agents in the detergent used. Therefore, we recommend hand washing.

            As the corrosion effect is heavily dependent on the detergent used, our warranty does not apply in this case. There are dishwasher detergents on the market clearly indicating they are fit for use with stainless steel. Most of the popular detergents, however, are formulated with aggressive agents to make glassware more shiny.

            We hope this info is helpful.

            With kind regards,

            DEMEYERE COMM.V.

            Annick Van Vugt

            Management Assistant

            -Secretariat-

            Atealaan 63

            2200 Herentals

            BELGIUM

            Phone: +32 14 285 212

            Fax: +32 14 285 222

            info@demeyere.be

            www.demeyere.be

            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
              k
              KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 08:02 AM

              So, what I'm getting from this is:

              If you put their sauce pots, stock pots, Dutch ovens, and sauté pans through the dishwasher your warranty is safe.

              If you put the conical sauté pans or the Proline fry pans through the wash, they are not covered by the warranty anymore due to the fact that the aluminum is uncovered and there is no guarantee that your dishwasher detergent won't eat away at the aluminum and that damage will be considered the fault of the owner, not the fault of Demeyere.

              I hope this helps someone out, I know it makes me feel much more well informed on what it means to put this cookware through the dishwasher.

              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                k
                kaleokahu Aug 30, 2013 10:19 AM

                Hi, KPD: "If you put the conical sauté pans or the Proline fry pans through the wash, they are not covered by the warranty..."

                My lawyerly reading of Mr. Van Vugt's response is that he didn't quite say that. If the literature and actual terms of the warranty say that the Pro-lines are dishwasher safe, or leaves ambiguity, the warranty applies. I think the key word is "recommend".

                Still, I would expect to get a denial from Demeyere if the claim was *just* for this interstitial erosion we've been talking about. But if a pan were to warp or delaminate AND it had some erosion, I would expect them to honor a warranty claim.

                Aloha,
                Kaleo

                1. re: kaleokahu
                  k
                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 03:36 PM

                  I was just focusing if the problem was that your dishwasher created erosion and that was the only problem if the warranty wouldn’t be valid, but you are completely right: if the cookware was damaged from other circumstance they would certainly take care of you.

                  Their warranty terms on their website are rather ambiguous, which is why I e-mailed them about this.

                  I can post the warranty terms from the website here if you like.

              2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 08:15 PM

                Galvanic corrosion and caustic erosion are really beyond what I would expect to be covered in a warranty.

                Warping and delamination are not something I think I will ever have to worry about but, I'm sure if I need make a warranty claim Demeyere will take care of it in an honest and fair manner.

                1. re: Sid Post
                  k
                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 08:34 PM

                  "Galvanic corrosion and caustic erosion are really beyond what I would expect to be covered in a warranty."

                  I completely agree.

                  "Warping and delamination are not something I think I will ever have to worry about but, I'm sure if I need make a warranty claim Demeyere will take care of it in an honest and fair manner."

                  I get the same impression and it's lovely to see a company that I feel like will stand by their product and be fair and honest.

                  1. re: Sid Post
                    DuffyH Aug 31, 2013 06:32 AM

                    Galvanic corrosion is what caused the lid of one of my Calp. TP pans to fail. I dropped the lid, the rivets holding the loop handle disintegrated, the lid fell apart. There was nothing left of the rivets but little stumps.

                    After a brief phone call, Calph. sent me a new lid. Excellent warranty coverage, but I've seen a report where they were stinkers about a non-stick warranty claim.

                    1. re: DuffyH
                      k
                      kaleokahu Aug 31, 2013 08:48 AM

                      Hi, Duffy: "a report where they were stinkers about a non-stick warranty claim."

                      I think that was in a Frankenthread that was restitched and rose again yesterday. My inference from the report was that Calphalon refused to replace a pan that needed only cleaning. I've not made any claims with them, but my sense is that Calphalon has the best customer service going. And they tell the truth.

                      Frankly, we haven't seen the actual Demeyere warranty language, but I *think* we know that they say it's DW-safe, and that they merely "recommend" hand washing. This would be legally disfavorable to Demeyere in a warranty dispute where DWing or normal galvanic corrosion caused a pan to fail within the warranty period.

                      The case of your pan's failed rivets is a good case in point for why a manufacturer *should* honor a warranty claim for galvanic corrosion. But if I were advising the manufacturer, I would tell them to draw the line at functional defects, which might exclude the rim erosion that started this thread.

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo
                      Cookware Lawyer

                      1. re: kaleokahu
                        DuffyH Aug 31, 2013 02:27 PM

                        Cookware Lawyer,

                        I read excellent things about AC warranty service, too. And LC, too, for that matter. Still, it's not surprising to me that we see only a few warranty stories, given the extremely low failure rate for mid- to high-end cookware. Is that how you see it, too?

                        I've been in correspondence recently with Calph. over their rivets. I wrote to ask if they'd be changing the rivets in light of the corrosion. Older pans had rivets that were aluminum outside the pan and steel inside. Some of their newer pans have all steel rivets, but lids still have the mixed metal design.

                        Calph. acknowledged the mixed design, but did not admit to corrosion. I was informed that there were no plans to change the rivet design, but they did ask me for photos of the "suspected" corroding rivets, along with pan model numbers, which I've supplied. About a dozen photos in all, between pans and lids.

                        I was a bit surprised that they chose to pursue the matter. I'd not expected that.

                        1. re: DuffyH
                          k
                          kaleokahu Sep 2, 2013 04:16 PM

                          Hi, Duffy: "...extremely low failure rate for mid- to high-end cookware. Is that how you see it, too?"

                          I think I mostly agree, but I'm less sure about the *extremely* part. I think that warping and premature loss of anodizing isn't all that rare.

                          Regarding rivets... It may not be so simple from a manufacturing standpoint just to substitute SS for aluminum. Dissimilar metals tend to gall, and aluminum might actually be a better material in terns of swaging a nice tight fitment.

                          Aloha,
                          Kaleo

                          1. re: kaleokahu
                            DuffyH Sep 2, 2013 07:06 PM

                            Good points, Kaleo, about warping and anodizing loss. I haven't had a pan warp in a long time. Well, not counting that mini-warp on my FB crepe pan, entirely my fault. I do tend to think of warping as mostly operator error, because much of my early warping was, although for sure a lot of it is not. I'm less familiar with anodized stuff.

                            On rivets - the other big boys have no problem with all-SS rivets, so it would be nice if Calph. got on board. I do favor their saucepans, as I like their glass lids a lot.

                            1. re: DuffyH
                              k
                              kaleokahu Sep 2, 2013 07:57 PM

                              Hi, Duffy:

                              This thread notwithstanding, from a galling and a manufacturing standpoint, aluminum rivets in aluminum pans make the most sense. Putting steel rivets through a aluminum pan just to avoid DW corrosion is analogous to fully cladding a pan--a complicated tradeoff that is undertaken strictly for convenience.

                              Typically, you want a softer and more ductile metal for the rivet, not the opposite.

                              Aloha,
                              Kaleo

                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                DuffyH Sep 2, 2013 10:24 PM

                                Hay Kaleo,

                                Oh, I see where you're going. I agree it makes no sense to use steel rivets on an aluminum pan.

                                I was talking about using mixed rivets in SS clad pans. AFAIK, Calph. is the only major doing this.

                                1. re: DuffyH
                                  k
                                  kaleokahu Sep 3, 2013 11:04 AM

                                  Hi, Duffy:

                                  What's a mixed rivet?

                                  You see, this is another example of the unseen technical issues about clad. With riveting through multiple layers, you have to be careful what material you choose for rivets, whereas with straight-gauge pans you can almost always just use the same material. It may well be that Calphalon has chosen the lesser of the possible evils in using aluminum.

                                  And even this complexity pales in comparison to the technical issues of securely welding SS handles--many things can and do go wrong. That's one of the reasons why I consider riveted handles to be safer than welded.

                                  Aloha,
                                  Kaleo

                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                    DuffyH Sep 3, 2013 03:11 PM

                                    Hi Kaleo,

                                    What I mean by mixed rivet (I've no idea what the technical term is) is what Calph. is doing with lids and some pans. All CTP pan rivets are SS inside the pan, and inside the lid. Some are also SS on the outside of the pan, a single material, obviously,

                                    But most of the CTP rivets are aluminum on the exterior of the pan. All lids have aluminum rivets on the exterior.

                                    With so much exposed surface area, especially as compared to the thin line of aluminum "sandwich" exposed on the rim, it's not a huge leap to think that the rivets will fail before a large amount of aluminum is lost at the rim.

                                    I've always liked riveted handles, because like you, I felt they were safer. I don't have a metallurgical background to qualify me to judge this, just general consumer and life knowledge.

                2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                  omotosando Aug 31, 2013 12:00 PM

                  i don't own a dishwasher, but even if I did, I can't imagine why I would want to put my Proline in there.The stuff cleans up in two minutes, literally. Proline actually makes me want to cook since I know cleanup is going to be a breeze.

                  Last night I cooked a pound and a half of salmon in the 11" Proline to bring to a picnic (yes, it's so hot here we are having picnics at 9:00 p.m.) I hate coming home to dirty dishes, but no problem, the Proline was gleaming within 2 minutes and I cleaned it before I left for the picnic. Dishwasher? Why?

                  1. re: omotosando
                    k
                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 31, 2013 12:09 PM

                    As I wrote above, I was mainly collecting the information for anyone that would want to know, especially if it meant their warranty being voided without them knowing it (Especially since many websites that sell the lines of Demeyere will say they are dishwasher safe).

                    I'm really happy that it's so easy to clean them that it makes you want to cook, that's a really lovely and happy thing!

                    I'm sorry it's so hot where you are, earlier this summer where I live it was the same thing.

                    1. re: omotosando
                      DuffyH Aug 31, 2013 02:04 PM

                      <... the Proline was gleaming within 2 minutes ... Dishwasher? Why?>

                      I hear this sort of thing frequently, from people who don't own a DW. The clear implication is that only one item is ever in need of washing at any given time. That's not how it normally works at my house. We routinely use 2-3 pans for cooking a meal, along with 3 plates, maybe 3 salad plates, 3 glasses, 3 sets of flatware. Don't forget serving plates, bowls and flatware. When Mom's not here, the table service is only for 2 people, but still. How many more dishes does an average family generate for a meal?

                      I don't know anyone who can wash, rinse and stack all of that in the time it takes to scrape and load the same items into a DW. Dishwasher? That's why.

                      But, like you, my frypans don't go in the DW. It's not because they're so easy to clean, but because they tend to want a quick scrub after deglazing and a fast soak. I'm one of the people who likes to see my stainless gleam all the time, so I probably do more extensive cleaning than most. I remove all rainbow/brown discoloration and mineral deposits every time I wash it.

                      1. re: DuffyH
                        Sid Post Sep 1, 2013 12:49 PM

                        I clean plates and glassware in the dishwasher when I have one. My "good" pots and pans rarely see anything other than my hands with a scrubbie and some liquid dish soap.

                        With the easy clean up of the Demeyere Atlantis/Proline, I really don't see the need or benefit of putting them in the dishwasher. After all, how long does it take to clean and hand dry a skillet or pan?

                        1. re: Sid Post
                          DuffyH Sep 1, 2013 01:38 PM

                          I understand, Sid. Everyone's life is different.

                          The layout of my Bosch is designed for putting pots in the bottom rack, at the back. The only other thing that fits well there is plates and big bowls. I have to throw a party to use enough plates to fill that space. The front half alone holds 18 plates.

                          If I didn't put pots in the back, I'd normally only have 3/4 of a load, with the top rack full and the bottom rack half empty.
                          So for me it makes absolute sense to add a couple of pots to otherwise empty space. That's all I'm saying.

                  2. l
                    laraffinee Aug 15, 2013 09:19 PM

                    I agree with Sid. It's a killer warranty that I doubt that I will ever need to use. This cookware is the bomb!

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: laraffinee
                      k
                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 09:58 PM

                      Isn't it brilliant? It feels doubly nice having both.

                    2. Sid Post Aug 15, 2013 07:59 PM

                      Based on my experience with the pans and skillets I have, I can't foresee any warranty claims. I guess I could destroy them with abuse but, that would take some effort on my part.

                      5 Replies
                      1. re: Sid Post
                        k
                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 08:46 PM

                        That seems very true of these pans, which is brilliant.

                        Oddly enough if you abused them enough to need the warranty, you would have voided it.

                        You have answered my silent inverse question.

                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                          Sid Post Aug 16, 2013 04:13 PM

                          Not to get into ethics and other issues but, I personally feel it would be inappropriate and against my character to file a "false warranty claim" for something I did that was foolish, a mistake, or intentional abuse. Good faith, honesty, and personal integrity go a long way in my book.

                          1. re: Sid Post
                            k
                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:01 PM

                            No, that's not what I was saying at all.

                            I was saying that it's really brilliant that these pans are so well made that they only way you can conceive of needing the warranty is if you went out of your way to harm the pans (And I found it ironic that if you did that it would void the warranty).

                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                              Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 02:46 PM

                              Oh, I miss read your post. Sorry ;-)

                              1. re: Sid Post
                                k
                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 05:59 PM

                                It's okay, I'm just glad you know what I mean now.

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