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Preferences Subdued

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Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 01:30 PM

The following is printed (I copied it from their website: http://www.lckny.com) on the Breakfast menu (this place serves Breakfast only on Sat & Sun) of a local joint:

"We welcome you to Breakfast at LCK.
Many of you are now regulars and know what to expect from us weekend mornings. For the newcomers, there are a few caveats to enjoying Breakfast with us. We have a VERY small kitchen. For this reason we ask that you do not deviate from the menu in any way. The Eggs are prepared the way we feel they are best and we will not accommodate special requests, with the exception of Allergies. If you need this control, then our Omelet section is for you. If you trust us, then you will enjoy the rest of the menu. Also, when you’re done and paid and see a bunch of Hungry people waiting, feel free to go enjoy the rest of your day.
Thank You, Chef Chris"

and:

"Please note, ALL of our Omelets are prepared with love by Denny & Jose. We use a TOUCH of Both Canola Oil and Butter Substitute (we think this is the way to do it), and will not leave these out (if you think the diner is not cooking eggs with oil when you ask, think again). Our Omelets are made by Chefs not short order cooks. If you do not like perfect omelets then you may order it well done, but we suggest otherwise."

http://www.lckny.com/menu.html

Now, I must admit, it is very rare for me to make any changes to any menu selection anywhere, or ask for any substitutions anywhere, and I very much dislike crusty dry cardboard omelets everywhere.

I usually try to order things in any place that I don't often or ever make at home. I really enjoy ordering a dish from the menu and tasting what the chef has accomplished. It isn't a "chefs interpretation" thing but rather an enjoyment of food and how it tastes made by others. Heck, I already KNOW how I make it at home and I already KNOW mine is better.....

But, by the way the above menu preface reads, do Chowhounds find this lack of control constricting? Is such a thing written on a menu restricting to Chowhounds? Are prefaced caveats a desirable addition to the menu? Do you like to see such things on menus as much as I do?

Photos:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/left-c...

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  1. Firegoat RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 01:54 PM

    I would be walking out.

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    1. babette feasts RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 01:59 PM

      It comes off as pretty defensive, but as long as the chefs agree that sunny side up eggs should have runny yolks and set whites, I'm good.

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      1. c oliver RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 02:11 PM

        Their eggs don't look all that wonderful to me but, hey, it's their place.

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        1. re: c oliver
          Firegoat RE: c oliver Jul 28, 2013 02:13 PM

          Fried eggs seem like a very personal choice to me to impose on your customer. Not everyone likes runny yolks.

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          1. re: Firegoat
            c oliver RE: Firegoat Jul 28, 2013 02:17 PM

            Especially sunnyside up.

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          ErnieD RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 02:13 PM

          The first part I really don't see a problem with. Maybe it could have been worded with a little less hostility, but it sounds like they don't have the staff/facilities to take special requests, and it's probably just as well to get that out in the open from the get-go.

          The second part I'm not so crazy about. First of all, are people asking for their eggs to be cooked with no fat of any kind? If so that seems a little misguided. But if they're getting a rash of people wanting butter instead, that might be a hint that what they think is the way to do it is actually not. And the end is uncalled for. If you're going to offer something, offer it. Don't offer it and then make a snotty comment to the people who might want to take you up on it.

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          1. mrbigshotno.1 RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 03:13 PM

            What a bunch of horseshit.

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            1. re: mrbigshotno.1
              pinehurst RE: mrbigshotno.1 Jul 29, 2013 06:52 AM

              I'm eating with mrbig

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              pedalfaster RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 03:23 PM

              I probably wouldn't eat there, but I can see their point.
              It's kind of like eating at home whilst growing up.
              Mom cooks...and you eat. Or not.

              The only thing I would also hope to see, as a paying customer, is this notice/ their menu on the door.

              p.s. Give me real butter--love the flavor-- or give me nothing.

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              1. re: pedalfaster
                Firegoat RE: pedalfaster Jul 28, 2013 03:28 PM

                Even my mom would let me pick between a sunny side up or a flipped and harder egg.

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                  pedalfaster RE: Firegoat Jul 28, 2013 03:52 PM

                  Yay Mommy-Firegoat.:)
                  Not all moms do that though. Bummer. :(

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                2. re: pedalfaster
                  coll RE: pedalfaster Jul 29, 2013 05:54 AM

                  I don't know of any breakfast joints that cook their eggs in real butter. It's either canned grease (or fake butter like Whirl), or bacon fat, usually. They're right about people's conception of that.

                  However I wouldn't want to meet the person who wrote that disclaimer in person, he sounds like a winner!

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                  fara RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 03:29 PM

                  You want to talk to me like that AND take my money? No way Jose

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                  1. re: fara
                    Firegoat RE: fara Jul 28, 2013 03:31 PM

                    I agree. Doneness on eggs seems to me to be as polarizing as say doneness on steak. If I walked into a steak house and they said I had no choice, they will just cook it as they seem best I would be walking right out of there as well.

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                    flavrmeistr RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 03:42 PM

                    Well, I like photos #2 and #3. Can I get a side of grits with those, or would I be beaten senseless and tossed out on the sidewalk for asking? Would I offend the "Chefs" creative sensibilities if I smuggled in a bottle of Tabasco? Silly f**ks.

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                    1. MGZ RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 08:06 PM

                      I've got no problems with restaurants/chefs employing a no substitutions/alterations policy. In fact, I rather respect those who are willing to say that "our desire to maintain our integrity is more important than your desire to maintain control." If the place is small and overcrowded, what better way to make things manageable than by filtering out those who may be less appreciative.

                      Now, to be fair, I say this as a guy who eats basically everything and generally thinks flipping a fried egg should be punishable by a fifty dollar fine. I kinda like to release control when I dine out. I've even gone so far as to have a server simply bring me the dinner he would order if we switched places so that I didn't have to bother contemplating a menu.

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                      1. re: MGZ
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                        flavrmeistr RE: MGZ Jul 28, 2013 09:03 PM

                        Appreciative of what? Intransigent arrogance? It's breakfast, man. I want my eggs they way I want them. Eggs are the one thing that have to be right, and people are entitled to that. The highest paid cooks in Vegas are not "chefs". They're egg cooks. "Chef", my balls.

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                        1. re: flavrmeistr
                          Chemicalkinetics RE: flavrmeistr Jul 28, 2013 09:19 PM

                          <Eggs are the one thing that have to be right>

                          What do you mean by only?

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                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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                            flavrmeistr RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 28, 2013 09:34 PM

                            I mean that people are very particular about the way they take their eggs. Having turned out thousands of eggs and omelettes, I know this first-hand. Therefore, I am in disbelief that any proprietor of a breakfast restaurant would openly taunt their customers in this way. It's just stupid.

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                            1. re: flavrmeistr
                              MGZ RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 02:24 AM

                              The OP notes that the place is not really a "breakfast restaurant", but a restaurant that serves breakfast on Saturday and Sunday only. If they are in a position where they can say, "No. This ain't Burger King", then I say "Good for them."

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                              1. re: MGZ
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                                flavrmeistr RE: MGZ Jul 29, 2013 05:03 AM

                                I say "bullshit".

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                                1. re: flavrmeistr
                                  MGZ RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 05:24 AM

                                  Than, I suppose they will get by without your business. It's their establishment. They can do what they want with it and those who don't like it don't have to patronize it. It's not like there aren't plenty of other restaurants in that part of Long Island

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                          2. re: flavrmeistr
                            c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 01:55 PM

                            "The highest paid cooks in Vegas are not "chefs". They're egg cooks. "

                            Really???? I'm pretty shocked by that.

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                            1. re: c oliver
                              PotatoHouse RE: c oliver Jul 29, 2013 02:58 PM

                              And I am more than skeptical.

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                                flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Jul 29, 2013 03:09 PM

                                It's true. Breakfast is the most popular meal for gamblers. Screwing up egg orders is bad for casino business. Good egg/omelette cooks are in high demand and make very good money. By good, I mean those that run 8-12 pans at a time and don't screw up. Watch a good breakfast cook sometime. It's a highly respected craft.

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                                1. re: flavrmeistr
                                  c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 03:26 PM

                                  I don't disagree with it being a skill that must be perfected but to say their the highest paid, considering all the celebrity chefs and high end restaurant there just seems improbably to me. Any citation on that?

                                  http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolms...

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                                    flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Jul 29, 2013 03:54 PM

                                    "Celebrity chefs"? I'm talking about people that actually prepare the food. Those guys are CEO's. You'll never find them in the kitchen.

                                    The New Yorker did a long piece on the subject some years back. It seems that the casinos poach each other's egg guys with higher and higher pay. I have to say I was a bit surprised also, but the NYer vets their stuff pretty thoroughly. That's also where I read about Jim Leff, the founder of this site. Changed my life.

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                                    1. re: flavrmeistr
                                      c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 04:27 PM

                                      You might be surprised at how many of them actually DO cook.

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                                        flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Jul 29, 2013 04:43 PM

                                        Only on TV, skippy.

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                                        1. re: flavrmeistr
                                          c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 05:05 PM

                                          Nope.

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                                      2. re: flavrmeistr
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                                        fara RE: flavrmeistr Jul 30, 2013 04:35 AM

                                        For the better?

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                                2. re: flavrmeistr
                                  westsidegal RE: flavrmeistr Jul 29, 2013 03:49 PM

                                  appreciative of the food they choose to serve.
                                  they are not trying to be everything to everybody.
                                  people like flavrmeistr are being warned so that they can go elsewhere which is fair enough.

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                                  1. re: westsidegal
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                                    flavrmeistr RE: westsidegal Jul 29, 2013 04:12 PM

                                    That's right. Ol' Flav will by God have his way when it comes breakfast.

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                              2. ipsedixit RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 08:25 PM

                                It's just a different business model, sort of a "breakfast-omakase".

                                If people are ok with this style of cooking/service for Japanese cuisines then why not American-style breakfast foods.

                                It's a nice way for people to expand their culinary minds and palates. While I understand that some people just have to have runny yolks with their fried eggs, there's no guarantee that a hard-fried egg won't be appetizing when cooked or paired with certain ingredients or accoutrements that the "runny yolk" person has yet to fathom, much less experience.

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                                1. re: ipsedixit
                                  MGZ RE: ipsedixit Jul 28, 2013 08:39 PM

                                  You're right, my foregoing hyperbole aside, about an occasional hard fried egg having some merit. Certain sandwiches, for example. Ultimately, that's the point, right? Surrender to the experience and skill of the kitchen.

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                                  1. re: MGZ
                                    ipsedixit RE: MGZ Jul 28, 2013 08:52 PM

                                    Right.

                                    There are people who will scoff at an over-hard egg but yet scarf down deviled eggs like they're the nectar of the gods.

                                    But yet isn't a deviled egg just sort of like a over-hard egg with mayo and seasoning, served cold?

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                                    1. re: ipsedixit
                                      MGZ RE: ipsedixit Jul 29, 2013 05:45 AM

                                      More I think about it, the more I like the idea of a true "breakfast-omakase." Especially, if it was done with small plates and came with a Blood Mary.

                                      First, a scoop of a grapefruit juice granita.

                                      Next, a little melon, grape, berry, kebab.

                                      Then, a small fan of potato rounds topped with a thin slice of lox, some caviar, finely minced shallots and a dollop.

                                      Followed by a soft boiled egg with toast points.

                                      Finish with a stack of 3 inch habanero corn cakes, layered with thin slices of fried scrapple and resting on a bed of white, sausage gravy.

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                                      1. re: MGZ
                                        ipsedixit RE: MGZ Jul 29, 2013 09:37 AM

                                        Yeah, me too.

                                        I think it would work esp. well during brunch, where people generally have more time and more open to a leisurely meal.

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                                      2. re: ipsedixit
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                                        dmjordan RE: ipsedixit Jul 30, 2013 07:23 AM

                                        Well, it depends on how the over-hard yolk is being used. Eggs and toast, no thanks. And I once ordered duck hash with a sunny side up egg on top. Completely hard yolk. Had to send it back.

                                        Classic potato salad with a runny yolk? Never--must be hardboiled.

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                                    lemons RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 08:45 PM

                                    I think we're missing a key question here: How good is the food that's cooked "their way"? Obviously this is a key YMMV situation, but if it's good, I can ignore the announcement. If it's bad, I can poke fun at until it looks like nylon stockings attacked with a nail file.

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                                    1. Chemicalkinetics RE: Gastronomos Jul 28, 2013 09:16 PM

                                      <I usually try to order things in any place that I don't often or ever make at home. I really enjoy ordering a dish from the menu and tasting what the chef has accomplished. It isn't a "chefs interpretation" thing but rather an enjoyment of food and how it tastes made by others. ....>

                                      Agree. I rarely ask for customization/modification, but this preface on the menu is very long and very restrictive. That being said, many chefs from other cuisines are known to exert great control, most noticeably Japanese sushi. Many sushi chefs refuse to do certain accommodations. Some refuse to make spicy tuna or spicy whatever sushi. I believe that molecular gastronomy also do not take requests. They do whatever they do, and you eat how ever they made them.

                                      However, it is unusual for a breakfast and bunch diner to exert this much control. Most customers expect that they can ask for the "doneness" of their eggs. Nevertheless, it is their business, so they can do whatever they like. Potential customers can decide to go or not.

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                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                        Tripeler RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 28, 2013 09:57 PM

                                        Yes, and I suspect a fair number of customers will appreciate the "discipline" doled out to them at breakfast.

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                                        1. re: Tripeler
                                          Chemicalkinetics RE: Tripeler Jul 28, 2013 10:03 PM

                                          Your point is well taken. I don't think most people will appreciate this. Even someone like me who almost never ask for anything special find this "pre-emptive" preface is a bit too strong. However, it seems they are running a successful business, so I guess it is working out for them.

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                                          1. re: Tripeler
                                            Samalicious RE: Tripeler Jul 29, 2013 04:03 AM

                                            Many hipsters appreciate discipline.

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                                            1. re: Samalicious
                                              westsidegal RE: Samalicious Jul 29, 2013 03:53 PM

                                              many people who enjoy the cooking style of a particular restaurant will appreciate that the rhythm of the kitchen (i.e. it's efficiency) will not be disrupted by customers with a wide array of preferences.
                                              the kitchen will do what it does best and the customers that don't appreciate that will go elsewhere.

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                                          Chatsworth RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 02:41 AM

                                          I rarely ask for substitutions, but I am bothered by the tone of this preamble. "No egg for you if you ask for it to be cooked any other way than snotty." Having a small kitchen has no bearing on whether eggs can be cooked for a minute or so longer.

                                          And get rid of the all caps and unnecessary capitalization. Since when did we capitalize Allegies, Both, etc? If someone with a little time and thoughtfulness had read this through it might have come across as less offensive (to me at least).

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                                            Harters RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 03:34 AM

                                            Where I am in the world, you are rarely asked what sort of eggs you want, let alone how you want them cooked. A breakfast will come with a fried egg served, as Americans call it, sunnyside. As such, there would be no need for a place to include this sort of caveat on its menu - which is probably just as well as I doubt the tone of it would be welcomed here.

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                                              Bkeats RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:02 AM

                                              If you can have the Soup Nazi, then I have no problem with the Egg Fascist

                                              You, special order guy. No eggs for you! LOL

                                              As the OP notes, its a place that serves breakfast only on Saturdays and Sundays. Probably something the chef wanted to add to what was originally a lunch/dinner only place. Total opposite of a diner. The description makes me think there is a line out the door every morning when breakfast is served. If you don't like the way they set the menu, don't go. I don't think they will miss you. The sign was your warning. Better than going in and sitting down to ask for scrambled or over easy eggs and getting into an argument about it when they tell you you can't have it.

                                              Hey gastro, is this where you go for your perfect non-cardboard omelet without the extended family?

                                              ETA- menu looks great. If I'm out on the island some weekend morning near there, I will check it out.

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                                              1. tonyabbo RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:06 AM

                                                Perhaps the pretentiousness serves as justification for their pricing?

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                                                  Bkeats RE: tonyabbo Jul 29, 2013 06:26 AM

                                                  I thought the prices looked reasonable. Location, location, location.

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                                                  1. re: Bkeats
                                                    tonyabbo RE: Bkeats Jul 29, 2013 06:44 AM

                                                    Ten bucks for a stack of pancakes, really? Being from a tourist area, I've seen some high prices but this seems over the top.

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                                                    1. re: tonyabbo
                                                      coll RE: tonyabbo Jul 29, 2013 07:00 AM

                                                      Maybe they serve real maple syrup?

                                                      You know, it's funny but we went to my SILs for dinner last night and after all the mentions of this restaurant recently, couldn't help noticing it is right across the street from where she lives. I'll have to ask her what her take is on it.

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                                                      1. re: tonyabbo
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                                                        Bkeats RE: tonyabbo Jul 29, 2013 07:12 AM

                                                        NY Metro area. Yeah $10 doesn't surprise me at all. If the wife and I go out for brunch on a weekend, its usually in the $50-75 range. The higher part is if we are having the typical brunch cocktails. My favorite brunch spot charges $12 for one single large pancake. No bacon with it. That's $5 extra.

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                                                        1. re: Bkeats
                                                          drongo RE: Bkeats Jul 29, 2013 03:14 PM

                                                          When I saw the name (Left Coast Kitchen) I assumed it was in California... so was surprised to see it's on Long Island.

                                                          The prices seem ok to me. But I never go out for breakfast except when travelling on business.

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                                                          1. re: Bkeats
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                                                            fara RE: Bkeats Jul 30, 2013 04:31 AM

                                                            Ugh, I hope that both the ambience is worth it and you can afford it.

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                                                            1. re: fara
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                                                              Bkeats RE: fara Jul 30, 2013 08:39 AM

                                                              Ambiance is quite nice and yes, thank you I can afford it.

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                                                              1. re: Bkeats
                                                                c oliver RE: Bkeats Jul 30, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                                I don't consider that ugh-worthy. We live in a resort area and here's the breakfast menu for the Hyatt resort:

                                                                http://hyatt.com/hyatt/images/hotels/...

                                                                And here's a lower end, more locals place:

                                                                http://www.firesigncafe.com/breakfast...

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                                                      2. re: tonyabbo
                                                        RetiredChef RE: tonyabbo Aug 1, 2013 01:51 PM

                                                        I agree - their breakfast prices were sky high.

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                                                        1. re: RetiredChef
                                                          c oliver RE: RetiredChef Aug 1, 2013 03:24 PM

                                                          I just don't agree with that.

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                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                            mcf RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 03:46 PM

                                                            Menu w/ prices at Toast on Long Island, discussed in a breakfast thread: http://www.toastandcoeatery.com/home/...

                                                            Sweet Mama's: http://www.sweetmamaskitchen.net/orde...

                                                            I wish people who don't know jack about the region would refrain from commenting on what's modest, standard pricing for the area.

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                                                          2. re: RetiredChef
                                                            Chemicalkinetics RE: RetiredChef Aug 1, 2013 05:19 PM

                                                            I just looked at the breakfast menu. Left Coast Kitchen is not inexpensive like many places, but it is certainly now sky high. Plates are about $13. Recently, I have been to Heritage of Richmond, VA and Eggspectation of Toronto, ON, Canada.

                                                            Heritage is about $12
                                                            http://www.heritagerva.com/menu/brunch/

                                                            Eggspectation is about $15.
                                                            http://www.eggspectation.com/wp-conte...

                                                            I have also been to a few other places. I don't think Left Coast Kitchen is cheap, but it is not outrageously expensive. I would say that it is moderately high.

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                                                        2. jrvedivici RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:24 AM

                                                          Nice to see the brand expanding from the normal soup, I assume this is;
                                                          "The Omelet Nazi"

                                                          I think a simple "No Substitutions" clearly printed on the bottom of each page pretty much sums it up. If someone asks for a substitution then a friendly "I'm sorry we can't accommodate substitutions" from the server would suffice.

                                                          I think that verbiage comes across as rather arrogant as well as very anti-customer service. That would turn me off.

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                                                          1. eLizard RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:27 AM

                                                            if it's free, then i have to accept what they give me. if i'm paying, then i get a say.

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                                                            1. re: eLizard
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                                                              Linda VH RE: eLizard Jul 29, 2013 06:51 AM

                                                              Agree. I looked at the b-fast menu and wouldn't go there. I like my eggs over easy or poached on wheat with a side of bacon. That's it.

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                                                              1. re: Linda VH
                                                                Firegoat RE: Linda VH Jul 29, 2013 07:12 AM

                                                                I know a lot of people that I regularly eat breakfast with that would rather eat poison than a sunny-side up, runny-yolked egg. I will occasionally eat the runny yolk, but it is certainly not my favorite.

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                                                                1. re: Firegoat
                                                                  PotatoHouse RE: Firegoat Jul 29, 2013 12:34 PM

                                                                  I'm rather noncommittal about eggs but Mrs. Potato is VERY particular. She likes her yolks somewhat runny, but dammit! She wants the whites COMPLETELY COOKED!

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                                                            2. tcamp RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:53 AM

                                                              You know what really bugs me about that disclaimer? The random acts of capitalization.

                                                              That said, I'd probably give it a try and if I liked their superior way, I'd consider returning. The temple burger sounds good...

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                                                                wyogal RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 07:10 AM

                                                                At first I thought it was absurd, but then, I looked at the menu. They are serving specific dishes that include eggs done a certain way. I can understand this. It is not a "two egg, any style, hashbrown or homefries, bacon or sausage" kind of place. If that's what someone wants, they can go to Denny's.

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                                                                1. re: wyogal
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                                                                  Bkeats RE: wyogal Jul 29, 2013 07:24 AM

                                                                  Eggsactly. Read the menu. You want scrambled or sunny side up eggs? You can have your choice with the hash dishes. But on the composed breakfast house plates, the chef has decided how eggs work best with the rest of the dish. You can disagree and you don't have to go. But its not a diner. A no-substitution policy doesn't cover this either. I can see someone arguing about how they are not making a "substitution" by wanting scrambled eggs instead of sunny side up with the chicken and waffle dish.

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                                                                  1. re: Bkeats
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                                                                    wyogal RE: Bkeats Jul 29, 2013 07:33 AM

                                                                    Yes. When reading the OP and seeing the picture, it seemed like they cooked eggs only one way, O.K., two, counting the omelettes, but indeed, there are several different types of egg preparations for the specific dishes.

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                                                                    1. re: wyogal
                                                                      MGZ RE: wyogal Jul 29, 2013 08:19 AM

                                                                      As you are aware, wyogal, it's not uncommon for some to only skim the OP, never review the provided links, and proceed to opine from a place of unfettered ignorance.

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                                                                      1. re: MGZ
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                                                                        Bkeats RE: MGZ Jul 29, 2013 08:25 AM

                                                                        I like to do that as it confirms the rightness of my position. Why let facts get in the way?

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                                                                        1. re: Bkeats
                                                                          jrvedivici RE: Bkeats Jul 29, 2013 08:37 AM

                                                                          I've never let being wrong stand in the way of me being right.

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                                                                          1. re: jrvedivici
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                                                                            Bkeats RE: jrvedivici Jul 29, 2013 08:41 AM

                                                                            My wife says that I can't admit I'm not right no matter how wrong I am.

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                                                                        2. re: MGZ
                                                                          d
                                                                          donovt RE: MGZ Jul 30, 2013 07:09 PM

                                                                          Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that’s remotely true. Facts schmacts.

                                                                          Homer Simpson – The Simpsons

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                                                                          1. re: donovt
                                                                            jrvedivici RE: donovt Jul 31, 2013 11:15 AM

                                                                            Doh !!!!!

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                                                                  2. pinehurst RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 08:34 AM

                                                                    What got me more than the paternalistic tone is the "when you're done, move along" line. I should feel guilt if I want to have another cup of coffee after my stack of $10 plain flapjacks? ("Gee, I guess I am done, technically...and look at all those hungry people waiting. I suppose I WILL feel free to enjoy my day elsewhere. Let me pay and skeedaddle")

                                                                    It's a non issue since I'm an East Coastie. But yet...I'd pass. More butter substitute for everyone else.

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                                                                    1. re: pinehurst
                                                                      westsidegal RE: pinehurst Jul 29, 2013 03:58 PM

                                                                      no one said you HAD to feel guilt.
                                                                      they just said that you should eat elsewhere.

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                                                                      1. re: westsidegal
                                                                        pinehurst RE: westsidegal Jul 30, 2013 08:52 AM

                                                                        True. They just said to finish, pay, and feel free to move it to let the other "hungry" people in. So you're right. No guilt, just a business model, and an individual choice.

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                                                                      2. re: pinehurst
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                                                                        fara RE: pinehurst Jul 30, 2013 04:29 AM

                                                                        This was the worst offense to me as well. Inhospitable to say the least. And who wants to eat under pressure from the cook to get out? Bad for digestion! The rest I could forgive if it were worded nicely.

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                                                                        1. re: pinehurst
                                                                          mcf RE: pinehurst Jul 30, 2013 11:25 AM

                                                                          This is an east coast business. I guess depending which way you're facing, they're the left coast of Lawn Guyland, driving westward.

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                                                                        2. Gastronomos RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 09:14 AM

                                                                          This is a picture of the old menu preface:

                                                                           
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                                                                          1. re: Gastronomos
                                                                            jrvedivici RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 09:31 AM

                                                                            Ok now I'm more curios than before. I certainly detect a change of tone from this original to the new menu, which just reeks of arrogance to me. Sorry if I'm misreading it but that's how it comes across.

                                                                            The second thing I don't like or understand is they say the reason they cannot deviate from the breakfast menu is because of the restrictions working in a small kitchen presents. Well then, why isn't there similar restrictions to their lunch or dinner menu? There isn't a mention of no substitutions or anything remotely close to what they say regarding their breakfast menu. Curious to say the least..........

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                                                                            1. re: Gastronomos
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                                                                              Chatsworth RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 05:32 PM

                                                                              At least in the original they will accept "simple requests". They've taken that off the current menu.

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                                                                              1. re: Chatsworth
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                                                                                Blueicus RE: Chatsworth Jul 30, 2013 09:45 AM

                                                                                I'm willing to bet good money that more people (read: everybody) had "simple requests" than they ever thought possible, and that people's definition of a "simple request" was a little (read: a lot) more complicated than they believed it was.

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                                                                                1. re: Blueicus
                                                                                  c oliver RE: Blueicus Jul 30, 2013 10:03 AM

                                                                                  I totally agree with you! We recently had some inlaws in town. Sweetest people ever but she could make a career out of ordering breakfast :( Truly. She wanted pancakes, one strip of bacon, a scrambled egg. Oh and a sausage patty. The pancakes were "too big, not like what I make at home." It was "too much food" - duh. And it took forever to make all those decisions. If they served alcohol I'd have gone for an emergency Bloody Mary :)

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                                                                            2. viperlush RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 09:24 AM

                                                                              Doesn't bother me

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                                                                              1. j
                                                                                Just Visiting RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 09:46 AM

                                                                                http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/287590

                                                                                Here in DC, Diva Chef Carole Greenwood, a self-proclaimed artiste who communicated with the food or some such BS, actually yelled at customers who requested substitutions or changes. Even in the case of allergies. Order something else, she'd tell them. She had Donald Rumsfeld thrown out of her restaurant because she refused to serve war criminals. She attacked a local food blogger who had the audacity to take photos for his blog (way back before everyone was taking photos in restaurants). Even had a lawyer send a cease-and-desist letter.

                                                                                I avoided her three restaurants.

                                                                                So this LCKNY place - is the food so good that it outweighs the attitude?

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                                                                                1. re: Just Visiting
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                                                                                  Virginian RE: Just Visiting Jul 29, 2013 06:33 PM

                                                                                  Good for her!

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                                                                                2. Perilagu Khan RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 10:47 AM

                                                                                  Guy comes off as a haughty, egocentric prick (common in chefs, I suspect). He has every right to run his joint as he likes--including allowing smoking, IMO--but I dam' sure wouldn't darken his door.

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                                                                                  1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                    NonnieMuss RE: Perilagu Khan Jul 30, 2013 05:15 AM

                                                                                    More like "egg-ocentric"! Amirite? (Holds hand up for high five. Looks around. Awkwardly pretends was just smoothing hair instead.)

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                                                                                    ellabee RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 12:04 PM

                                                                                    They're doing breakfast from a tiny kitchen with only a few cooks on weekends only; the "restrictions" seem pretty reasonable and small. I wouldn't hesitate to go.

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                                                                                    1. re: ellabee
                                                                                      Firegoat RE: ellabee Jul 29, 2013 12:12 PM

                                                                                      I just don't see asking to flip that egg over and cook it a few more minutes as a substitution, and more than if I order a steak at a steak house and ask them to cook it a few less minutes for a medium rare. Same steak. Same eggs.

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                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat
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                                                                                        Blueicus RE: Firegoat Jul 30, 2013 08:33 AM

                                                                                        Clearly you haven't worked in a breakfast service... because when you allow different types of egg cookery you start getting the following:

                                                                                        Sunny side up, over easy, over medium, over hard, poached soft, poached medium, poached hard, soft scrambled, hard scrambled, egg whites only, more egg whites than yolks (yes, I've seen this request before!), basted eggs, less oil. Also, have you seen a ticket where every single item on the ticket has a modification on it? On a table of 8? It's like a deranged game of memory...

                                                                                        And please don't reply with "it's your job"... I think the establishment defines what is and isn't their job. Personally I wouldn't generally restrict people in such a way if I did brunch but I do understand and that's part of the reason a lot of cooks hate doing brunch (among other reasons)

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                                                                                        1. re: Blueicus
                                                                                          Firegoat RE: Blueicus Jul 30, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                          It's your job.
                                                                                          Ha! Just kidding but only kind of sort of.
                                                                                          I still think eggs are like steaks. You might have to cook them a little longer or a little less.

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                                                                                          1. re: Firegoat
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                                                                                            flavrmeistr RE: Firegoat Jul 30, 2013 05:07 PM

                                                                                            Eggs-ackly!

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                                                                                    2. greygarious RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 12:12 PM

                                                                                      Their menu has me drooling - and besides, I was on Tony Shalhoub's character's side in "Big Night". So I'd accept the restaurant's caveats. I would only find their position a problem if they did not disclose it up front. As it is, their offer is "take it or leave it", so I don't see any issue.

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                                                                                      1. PotatoHouse RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 12:44 PM

                                                                                        This place can kiss my ass. $13 for biscuits and gravy?? $14 for Chicken and Waffles?? 6 egg omelets?? And what the hell is up with that "Truck Stop" dish? I drove over the road for 20 years and never saw crap like that on a truck stop menu!

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                                                                                        1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                          mcf RE: PotatoHouse Jul 30, 2013 11:23 AM

                                                                                          No, actually pretty standard/modest metro NY pricing. When we travel, we're often amazed how much cheaper restaurants are elsewhere. Even a small storefront rent is HIGH here.

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                                                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                                                            c oliver RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                            Yeah, here's Amy Ruth's in Harlem.

                                                                                            http://www.amyruthsharlem.com/Waffles...

                                                                                            And worth every cent. And as you correctly point out, the rent is certainly a BIG factor.

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                                                                                        2. westsidegal RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 03:46 PM

                                                                                          there are several (very good) restaurants in LA that have a "no substitutions/no modifications" policy.

                                                                                          these restaurants are always jammed, and have been jammed for many years now.

                                                                                          if people don't like the policy they can go somewhere else.

                                                                                          for me, i like the food at gjelina and at lukshon and would love it if they were less crowded at peak times. the only way to be assured of just walking in for dinner and getting a seat at either of them is to walk in the moment they open for dinner: 5:30.
                                                                                          by 7pm, it's too late.

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                                                                                          1. re: westsidegal
                                                                                            Perilagu Khan RE: westsidegal Jul 30, 2013 09:09 AM

                                                                                            I have no problem with the place setting its own policy--and I doubt many on here do. I do have a problem with "Chef Chris'" attitude. But some folks apparently thrive on abuse, and are willing to pay for it. It takes all kinds, they say.

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                                                                                            1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                              westsidegal RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 1, 2013 11:37 PM

                                                                                              or
                                                                                              1) they do not consider that treatment to BE abuse in the first place
                                                                                              and/or
                                                                                              2) they like the food and appreciate the food:quality:quantity ratios
                                                                                              and
                                                                                              3) they don't think they are entitled to take up table space at a breakfast restaurant to sit around and gab just because they coughed up the money for a meal. they realize the opportunity cost to the restaurant of allowing this is too great for a reasonable customer to expect it.

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                                                                                              1. re: westsidegal
                                                                                                kaleokahu RE: westsidegal Aug 2, 2013 07:26 AM

                                                                                                Hi, Westsidegal: "or...they do not consider that treatment to BE abuse in the first place."

                                                                                                You hit it! People who go to restaurants that abuse them and insult their intelligece are masochists. Brilliant!

                                                                                                "[T]hey don't think they are entitled to take up table space at a breakfast restaurant to sit around and gab..."

                                                                                                Chef Chris should just make it a stand-up place then. Whenever a new customer arrives, the person who's been there logest must leave. He could just make them stand on a slow coveyor belt which dumps them itno the parking lot (in LCK's case, the alley).

                                                                                                Linger over breakfast for good conversations with friends? How passe!

                                                                                                Aloha,
                                                                                                Kaleo

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                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                  coll RE: kaleokahu Aug 2, 2013 08:03 AM

                                                                                                  Well this IS New York. Have you ever heard of a "New York minute"? People here don't like to linger as much as some other places. It may seem rude but it's really not, to us anyway.

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                                                                                                  1. re: coll
                                                                                                    c oliver RE: coll Aug 2, 2013 08:32 AM

                                                                                                    Also, coll, it's just a matter of being polite. A restaurant is primarily for eating. If I'm done eating and others are waiting to eat, then I'm rude for ignoring that.

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                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver
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                                                                                                      flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 08:37 AM

                                                                                                      I think it's pretty much part of the social contract. Do people really need to be told?

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                                                                                                      1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                        c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Aug 2, 2013 09:02 AM

                                                                                                        Evidently. I've seen plenty of posts here about how restaurants deal with lingerers. And I've certainly witnessed it myself regularly.

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                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver
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                                                                                                          flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                                                          Eat and GTF out. Nice. I'll just STF out.

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                                                                                                          1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                            c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Aug 2, 2013 10:12 AM

                                                                                                            So you've not seen or read about that situation? It's regularly discussed on CH.

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                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver
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                                                                                                              flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 10:30 AM

                                                                                                              I've never seen the equivalent of "eat and GTF out" on a menu before. Not once. I find it offensive.

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                                                                                                              1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Aug 2, 2013 10:38 AM

                                                                                                                And I didn't read it as an equivalent of that. We interpret things differently obviously.

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                                                                                                  2. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                    linus RE: kaleokahu Aug 2, 2013 11:21 AM

                                                                                                    wow, neat. everyone who disagrees with you has a mental disorder.

                                                                                                    i'll play.

                                                                                                    people who abuse business owners by ordering them around like they're servants (make my eggs THIS way, dammit!) and lingering in their establishment while others are waiting (i'll leave when i want to, dammit!) are sadists. brilliant!

                                                                                                    a question: was treating restaurateurs like your personal chef and restaurants like your personal dining room ever in vogue?

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                                                                                                    1. re: linus
                                                                                                      kaleokahu RE: linus Aug 2, 2013 12:45 PM

                                                                                                      Hi, linus: "[sic] i'll play."

                                                                                                      No, anyone is free to disagree with me, even those of sound mind. But when I see abusive behavior and folks coming back for more, they're getting something out of the abuse. I call that masochism, but correct me if I'm wrong.

                                                                                                      No one mentioned abusing business owners by "ordering them around". If you think asking for an over easy egg in a diner-type joint is abuse (and you're a masochistic chef), you have found heaven.

                                                                                                      "[W]as treating restaurateurs like your personal chef and restaurants like your personal dining room ever in vogue?"

                                                                                                      Why yes. The first written account I could find in an hour, from the Song dynasty, circa 1275, is: "The people of Hangzhou are very difficult to please. Hundreds of orders are given on all sides: this person wants something hot, another something cold, a third something tepid, a fourth something chilled; one wants cooked food, another raw, another chooses roast, another grill." Kiefer, Nicholas M. (August 2002). "Economics and the Origin of the Restaurant" (PDF). Cornell Hotel and Restaurant Administration Quarterly,: pp 5–7.

                                                                                                      But I'm sure what you descriibe was happening all the time in the Thermopolia in ancient Greece and Rome. The diner counters of Pompei are still there. It's only relatively lately that cooks have gotten so uppity.

                                                                                                      Aloha,
                                                                                                      Kaleo

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                                                                                            2. kaleokahu RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 06:46 PM

                                                                                              Hopefully, the chef at LCK will get to try his arrogant schtick on a Bankruptcy Court Judge, and soon.

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                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                c oliver RE: kaleokahu Jul 29, 2013 07:30 PM

                                                                                                Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Just because his way isn't everyone's way, I wouldn't wish him going broke.

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                                                                                                1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                  Perilagu Khan RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 09:11 AM

                                                                                                  AFAIC, if you adopt that sort of an attitude toward your customers, you don't deserve to stay in business. But then I have old fashioned notions about customer service.

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                                                                                                  1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                    westsidegal RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 1, 2013 11:40 PM

                                                                                                    <<then I have old fashioned notions about customer service.>>

                                                                                                    do your "old fashioned notions" include the concept that the purpose of a restaurant should not be to provide ROi, but should be to coddle customers that have no skin in the game?

                                                                                                    maybe if those customers paid a yearly fee to offset the tremendous opportunity costs that the restaurant incurs as a result of tolerating them.

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                                                                                                    1. re: westsidegal
                                                                                                      Perilagu Khan RE: westsidegal Aug 2, 2013 10:05 AM

                                                                                                      Cultural differences are obviously at work here. In some parts of the country it is kosher for the owner to impose stringent demands upon patrons, but it is not acceptable for patrons to expect allowances from the owner.

                                                                                                      In others, it is expected that the owner will basically leave customers to their own devices so long as they aren't doing anything illegal or gratuitously offensive.

                                                                                                      You obviously are comfortable with the former; I much prefer the latter. And I'm fine that the twain shall nevermore meet.

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                                                                                                      1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                        c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 10:10 AM

                                                                                                        I've spent the last 40ish years on the West Coast and have never found that occupying a table for 'too long' a time to be polite. The middle of the country is pretty much uncharted country for me.

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                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                          Perilagu Khan RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 10:11 AM

                                                                                                          Define "too long a time."

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                                                                                                          1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                            c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 10:19 AM

                                                                                                            That's why I put it in quotes. A couple of factors figure in. The time of day and how many people are waiting would be the ones I'd take into consideration. At dinner restaurants certainly have a goal of turning the tables a certain number of times a night. Breakfast and lunch it's more likely that I wouldn't linger much beyond eating (finish the cup of coffee or wine) if I saw that there were people waiting to be seated. Just common courtesy usually wins out.

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                                                                                                  2. re: c oliver
                                                                                                    kaleokahu RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 12:49 PM

                                                                                                    Hi, c oliver:

                                                                                                    No, not harsh at all. Arrogance in service industries deserves to be punished by people spotlighting it and withholding their patronage. The conjured picture of "Chef Chris" standing before the court was meant as an object lesson of what this kind of arrogance brings.

                                                                                                    But since you asked... this is from "Chef Chris" website:

                                                                                                    "Completely attitude free, Chris judges his performance in the kitchen by the smiles and satisfaction of customers in the dining room." See, http://www.lckny.com/aboutus.html

                                                                                                    And despite the insinuation that the place is haute cuisine and not "short order", here's his breakfast menu: http://www.lckny.com/breakfast.pdf All those biscuits and gravy, hotcakes, chicken & waffles, the "Truck Stop", etc., all put the lie to *that*

                                                                                                    So let's add 'dishonest' to 'arrogant', OK?

                                                                                                    Aloha,
                                                                                                    Kaleo

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                                                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                      mcf RE: kaleokahu Jul 30, 2013 01:05 PM

                                                                                                      You haven't been there, right?

                                                                                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9110...

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                                                                                                2. mrbigshotno.1 RE: Gastronomos Jul 29, 2013 07:56 PM

                                                                                                  OK, OK, how about a follow up in a year and see if "bandwagonners" are still in business!

                                                                                                  1 Reply
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                                                                                                  1. re: mrbigshotno.1
                                                                                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: mrbigshotno.1 Jul 29, 2013 08:05 PM

                                                                                                    It sounds like this is not a new business, so the chance is that it will still be in business after a year.

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                                                                                                  2. b
                                                                                                    Bkeats RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 08:47 AM

                                                                                                    I don't get the vitriol from some posters. There's a restaurant. The chef has set his menu and wants to keep it that way. He has set the prices that he thinks are fair for the area. It seems to have attracted a following that like the food. No one is forced to eat there. If you don't like the menu and the "attitude" go somewhere you like. Sheesh. Move along people, there's nothing to see.

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                                                                                                    1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                      Perilagu Khan RE: Bkeats Jul 30, 2013 09:13 AM

                                                                                                      I think there is something to see. "Chef Chris'" attitude toward his customers strikes me as bizarre. But perhaps it is common in Long Island. I wouldn't know.

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                                                                                                      1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                        phofiend RE: Perilagu Khan Jul 30, 2013 09:29 AM

                                                                                                        No, it's not common. In fact, most people are quite nice.

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                                                                                                        1. re: phofiend
                                                                                                          Chemicalkinetics RE: phofiend Jul 30, 2013 11:28 AM

                                                                                                          Most people from Long Island are quite nice?

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                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                            c oliver RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 11:32 AM

                                                                                                            My experience isn't vast but I've found that to be so.

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                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                              westsidegal RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 11:41 PM

                                                                                                              me too. i've found people from long island to be very nice.

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                                                                                                            2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                              mcf RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 11:33 AM

                                                                                                              Most *people* are nice if you're nice, too. But none of them live IN Long Island. One lives ON an island. Ray Romano notwithstanding. :-)

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                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                EM23 RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 12:13 PM

                                                                                                                Don't you watch Long Island Princesses? We are all exactly like that.

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                                                                                                                1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                  mcf RE: EM23 Jul 30, 2013 12:24 PM

                                                                                                                  ROFL!

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                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                    EM23 RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 08:19 PM

                                                                                                                    RU laughing at me??? I’ll pull those extensions right out of your head at the vineyard party!!!

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                                                                                                                  2. re: EM23
                                                                                                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: EM23 Jul 30, 2013 01:05 PM

                                                                                                                    I just looked up the term and found it on Wikipedia. I wish that I didn't look it up.

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                                                                                                                    1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                      phofiend RE: EM23 Jul 30, 2013 06:36 PM

                                                                                                                      And we're all as rich as everybody on Royal Pains.

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                                                                                                              2. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                Steve Green RE: Bkeats Jul 30, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                                                                " If you don't like the menu and the "attitude" go somewhere you like."

                                                                                                                That's exactly what I would do if I saw a confrontational treatise like that on a menu: I would go somewhere else. Maybe it works for them, but I think wanting eggs done a particular way is a reasonable request, and there are plenty of great places that have a clue about customer service.

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                                                                                                                1. re: Steve Green
                                                                                                                  c oliver RE: Steve Green Jul 30, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                  But I doubt you'd hope they'd go bankrupt :(

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                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                    Steve Green RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 11:14 AM

                                                                                                                    No, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I wouldn't be terribly sympathetic either. Or surprised.

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                                                                                                              3. Candy RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 10:32 AM

                                                                                                                Well aren't they full of themselves? I would never cook eggs with oil and butter substitute. Just butter thank you and if they cannot accommodate my wishes in the way I prefer to have my eggs cooked then they don't want my business.

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                                                                                                                1. Firegoat RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 10:40 AM

                                                                                                                  I can't wait for Waffle House to post on their door that since they have a small kitchen they are just going to feed you what they think you should eat. Trust them. It's a small kitchen.

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                                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: Firegoat Jul 30, 2013 11:33 AM

                                                                                                                    That is a very good point. I used to go to Waffle House when I lived in the South. They have small kitchens, but the staffs were usually very nice.

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                                                                                                                  2. mcf RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 11:27 AM

                                                                                                                    I guess I think it's unusual and I'd vote with my feet. If they make enough folks happy, they'll last.

                                                                                                                    I eat low carb, which means eggs for breakfast. I like over medium and poached, but one little bit of snotty white can ruin the whole meal for me, so I'd pass.

                                                                                                                    As to those suggesting this is an overpriced menu, nah. It's VERY moderate for the region.

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                                                                                                                    1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                      c oliver RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 11:33 AM

                                                                                                                      I agree on the pricing.

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                                                                                                                    2. mcf RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 11:43 AM

                                                                                                                      Yelp rating details; mixed bag: http://www.yelp.com/biz/left-coast-ki...

                                                                                                                      urbanspoon: http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/201/16269...

                                                                                                                      Here's a Newsday review from a food writer whose tastebuds I'd follow anywhere, http://long-island.newsday.com/restau...

                                                                                                                      NY Times: Interesting that food writers seem to have had better experiences than many regular folks: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/nyr...

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                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                        MGZ RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 12:08 PM

                                                                                                                        I don't think the place is going to go bankrupt any time soon.

                                                                                                                        And, thanks for posting those. I had forgotten how funny reading a lot of Yelp reviews can be. Always lettin' the service issues ruin the taste of the food. "Ooohh, the chef talked to other tables, but not ours . . . ."

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                                                                                                                        1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                          mcf RE: MGZ Jul 30, 2013 12:25 PM

                                                                                                                          I agree, yelpers are low cred, but high entertainment value. But at least if you get a lot of reviews in one place, you can spot some recurring themes. Yes, lol, not having the table visited.

                                                                                                                          OH, the humanity.

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                                                                                                                        2. re: mcf
                                                                                                                          Chemicalkinetics RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 01:06 PM

                                                                                                                          It has good reviews. Not sure why anyone thinks it is going to bankrupt anytime soon.

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                                                                                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                            mcf RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 01:16 PM

                                                                                                                            Eggzackly.

                                                                                                                            And it's been in business with that policy for over 2 years, still busy, still garnering credible professional reviews, too. Same chef did well at City Cellar, if I'm not mistaken.

                                                                                                                            I don't like the egg policy, but I think it would be the height of arrogance not to post it up front, and then spring it on guests who had the audacity to ask to have a dish modified. At least he gives notice that you might want to walk up front.

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                                                                                                                            1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                              c oliver RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 01:38 PM

                                                                                                                              I also think it's pretty arrogant for a customer to demand that they do otherwise. As you say, there's the option to walk.

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                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                mcf RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 01:41 PM

                                                                                                                                I'm going to plan to try it, based upon all I've read, but not for breakfast. I want my eggs cooked to MY preference. Forewarning is much appreciated.

                                                                                                                                I hate when I get that policy thrust upon me as a reaction to a request, but don't object if I know I'm ordering with that policy in place. It's not my favorite way to dine, but the food here, at least much of it, sounds worth it at other times of day for me.

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                                                                                                                                1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                  kaleokahu RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 05:26 PM

                                                                                                                                  Hi, mcf:

                                                                                                                                  Don't you think the better policy would be to keep Chef Chris' pie-hole shut, and instruct the servers to simply say: "I'll ask the chef"?

                                                                                                                                  They already do fried, poached, scrambled, white-only, and omelets, after all. How hard is it to flip a fried egg and pay attention to it?

                                                                                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                                                                                  Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                    d
                                                                                                                                    donovt RE: kaleokahu Jul 30, 2013 07:21 PM

                                                                                                                                    Nope. His restaurant, he can set whatever policy he wants. While I'm not particularly interested in eating there, I would simply choose not too. I can't go to McDonald's and order eggs over easy, so I choose not to go there either.

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                                                                                                                                    1. re: donovt
                                                                                                                                      c oliver RE: donovt Jul 30, 2013 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                                      Good analogy.

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                                                                                                                                      1. re: donovt
                                                                                                                                        gaffk RE: donovt Jul 30, 2013 07:36 PM

                                                                                                                                        You're assuming real eggs are available at McDonald's?

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                                                                                                                                        1. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                                          c oliver RE: gaffk Jul 30, 2013 07:42 PM

                                                                                                                                          What's an 'unreal' egg?

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                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                            gaffk RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 07:50 PM

                                                                                                                                            The powdered stuff now served at places like McD's and DD's.

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                                                                                                                                            1. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                                              c oliver RE: gaffk Jul 30, 2013 07:52 PM

                                                                                                                                              I thought it was Egg Beater type products. Citation for that one please?

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                gaffk RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 07:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                No citation. My experience at BK as a HS student circa 1980s vs nephews' experience at McD's circa 2000s.

                                                                                                                                                As an aside: I swore off NAF for pointless arguments and now I'll swear off General Topics. Y'all realize this argument is about a local spot that we'll never visit?

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                                                                                                                                              2. re: gaffk
                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                donovt RE: gaffk Jul 30, 2013 07:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                From the McDonald's website:

                                                                                                                                                Are your eggs real, or powdered?
                                                                                                                                                We use freshly cracked USDA Grade A shell eggs in most markets for our Egg McMuffin. We also use pasteurized liquid eggs for other menu offerings, such as our scrambled eggs and egg whites.

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                                                                                                                                                1. re: donovt
                                                                                                                                                  Chemicalkinetics RE: donovt Jul 30, 2013 07:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                  Egg Muffin is awesome.

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                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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                                                                                                                                                    donovt RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 08:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                    One of the single greatest dishes ever invented.

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                                                                                                                                                  2. re: donovt
                                                                                                                                                    f
                                                                                                                                                    flavrmeistr RE: donovt Jul 30, 2013 08:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                    What species of egg?

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                                                                                                                                                    1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                                                      c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Jul 31, 2013 07:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Well, it's not big enough to be a duck or goose egg I'm kinda guessing....chicken! But there are other options and I'd be cool with any of them.

                                                                                                                                                      http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/PYGBH...

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                                                                                                                                                      1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                                                        jrvedivici RE: flavrmeistr Jul 31, 2013 11:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                        They come from Mc' chickens.

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                                                                                                                                            2. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                              mcf RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 06:19 AM

                                                                                                                                              No.

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                                                                                                                                      2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                        c oliver RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 01:21 PM

                                                                                                                                        I think it's the WISH that they would :(

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                                                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                          mcf RE: c oliver Jul 30, 2013 01:38 PM

                                                                                                                                          By someone who's never been there, who quotes the chef as measuring his success by customer happiness...

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                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                            kaleokahu RE: mcf Jul 30, 2013 05:27 PM

                                                                                                                                            Hi, mcf:

                                                                                                                                            You think the OP was happy?

                                                                                                                                            Aloha,
                                                                                                                                            Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                            1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                              mcf RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 06:35 AM

                                                                                                                                              Read the reviews. This OP is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                kaleokahu RE: mcf Jul 31, 2013 08:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                I did. Pretty uneven, actually. And reviews don't excuse the menu display of inhospitality, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                You must think two Michelin stars would entitle them to verbally abuse patrons (just as wearing out the "Recommend" button makes a post more persuasive)?

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                                                                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                  mcf RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 09:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                  I'm going to pretend we have an "ignore poster button" now.

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                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                    kaleokahu RE: mcf Jul 31, 2013 09:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                    beat you to it. ;;

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                                                                                                                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                          westsidegal RE: Chemicalkinetics Aug 1, 2013 11:46 PM

                                                                                                                                          because so many people have the mistaken idea that their $15 is going to "make" the difference between restaurant success and restaurant failure.

                                                                                                                                          typically, if the food is good, the prices are reasonable, the location is reasonable, the rent is low enough, the kitchen is EFFICIENT enough, word will get around and those customers who aren't hung up on menu tone will jam pack these places for years on end, while the restaurants that coddle the entitiled set that don't come, spend their money, and go, end up scrambling to make it.

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                                                                                                                                          1. re: westsidegal
                                                                                                                                            Perilagu Khan RE: westsidegal Aug 2, 2013 07:51 AM

                                                                                                                                            Ha! Allowing people to dawdle a bit after breakfast constitutes "coddling" in your world? Talk about defining customer service down.

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                                                                                                                                            1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                              c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 08:36 AM

                                                                                                                                              Define dawdling "a bit" please.

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                Perilagu Khan RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                Define "please feel free to enjoy the rest of your day."

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                                                                                                                                                1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                                  c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 09:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                  Oh, you mean, that the restaurant should encourage you to linger until you feel like they're saying "please feel free to enjoy the rest of your day." Not sure I understand.

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                                                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                    Perilagu Khan RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 10:10 AM

                                                                                                                                                    I'm not saying they should encourage anything. And really, it's "Chef Chris'" establishment; he can do whatever he wants. But if I owned a restaurant it would never even occur to me to hustle paying customers out the door. It's a restaurant, not a cattle trough. Very poor decorum, IMO.

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                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                                      c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 10:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                      The way I interpret is that some customers have demonstrated "poor decorum" by staying TOO long, depriving the restaurant of being able to serve the next ones. And the next ones of having to wait too long for their food.

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                                                                                                                                                      1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                        Perilagu Khan RE: c oliver Aug 2, 2013 10:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                        That's possible. But I do wonder how long is too long. Personally, I think 15 minutes is the max if people are waiting, but I don't think I would announce that to my customers a priori.

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                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                                          c oliver RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 2, 2013 10:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                          I think about the same amount of time. I just have to assume (I know what that makes me!) that it was enough of a situation that they felt they had to deal with it more aggressively. And not put a server or host in the position of doing it. There's a place where we go to breakfast occasionally that has a large group of older men who meet for breakfast everyday (or at least every time we're there). They're there when we arrive and there when we leave. But it's a huge place so it doesn't seem to be an issue there.

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                                                                                                                                            2. re: westsidegal
                                                                                                                                              Chemicalkinetics RE: westsidegal Aug 2, 2013 10:59 AM

                                                                                                                                              I understand that some people don't like a particularly restaurant, but to predict a restaurant's success based on purely emotional and wishful thinking is meaningless. All it is saying is that you don't like the restaurant. It does not communicate any information beyond this personal feeling.

                                                                                                                                              I don't particularly like Wendy's, but I do not think it is going away any time soon. More importantly, I have been to restaurants with much worse attitude than this Left Coast. The owner is basically the "Soup Nazi" from Seindfeld, except it is a soul food restaurant. You line up to order, you have to order right away, you cannot wait and you cannot ask question. I was basically yelled at for asking a simple question about chicken with gravy vs chicken without gravy. Yet, the place was packed.

                                                                                                                                              Now, I didn't enjoy my experience, but I also admit that he was running a successful business.

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                f
                                                                                                                                                flavrmeistr RE: Chemicalkinetics Aug 2, 2013 12:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                Check back next year and see how they're doing.

                                                                                                                                                Restaurants have the highest failure rate of any business. There was a guy who ran a very successful restaurant on my block. He moved into town from a rural location, thinking business would increase. His cooking was good and while it was expensive ($30 for roast pork loin), the place did okay. Eventually, business slowed down and he spent a lot of time in the dining room, drinking his way through his stock of expensive wine. His banter with customers went from joking, to surly, to derisive, to abusive. Eventually, his most loyal customers could no longer tolerate his drunken harangues and quit coming altogether. I'd see him stewing in his empty dining room, waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting out-of-towner searching out a meal. He walked out one evening and never returned.

                                                                                                                                                The right attitude counts for a lot in the hospitality business.

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                                                                                                                                        3. Gastronomos RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 07:46 PM

                                                                                                                                          The "anti-diner" previous breakfast menu blurb:

                                                                                                                                           
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                                                                                                                                          1. re: Gastronomos
                                                                                                                                            c oliver RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                                                                                            And the point is what please and thank you?

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                                                                                                                                            1. re: Gastronomos
                                                                                                                                              Chemicalkinetics RE: Gastronomos Jul 30, 2013 08:03 PM

                                                                                                                                              You have posted this earlier. I was not entirely thrilled with the lack of choice when I read your first initial post, but upon reading more carefully, the preface/statement is not that bad. The restaurant simply chose to serve its customers in a different fashion. Like you said (and the menu said), it is not trying to be a diner.

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                                                                                                c oliver RE: Chemicalkinetics Jul 30, 2013 08:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                CK, that's how I felt. At first I was a little anti but then I got it. Buyer beware?

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                                                                                                                                            2. c
                                                                                                                                              churros RE: Gastronomos Jul 31, 2013 08:50 AM

                                                                                                                                              I'm in the camp of there's nothing wrong with this policy and the wording on the menu. Maybe it's just a New York metro thing or a big city thing because I don't think it's that uncommon to have a no modifications/no substitutions policy.

                                                                                                                                              This restaurant is not trying to be a diner. The explanation on the menu is a bit long-winded but I can see why they feel the need to explicitly lay out its policy and the reasoning behind it. Most people are used to diners where they can customize their eggs as they please. They aren't used to composed breakfast dishes. And with regard to this particular menu, many of the items are not commonly seen in Long Island restaurants.

                                                                                                                                              Why this policy angers some people here is puzzling to me. I always thought Chowhounds tended to be more adventurous and were willing to try foods out of their comfort zones. Even if you are picky about your eggs and/or the menu here doesn't appeal to you, why the wishes of bankruptcy? This is just very odd to me.

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                                                                                                                                              1. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                mcf RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 09:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                "Why this policy angers some people here is puzzling to me. I always thought Chowhounds tended to be more adventurous and were willing to try foods out of their comfort zones. Even if you are picky about your eggs and/or the menu here doesn't appeal to you, why the wishes of bankruptcy? This is just very odd to me."

                                                                                                                                                Some folks cannot abide any instance in which their own personal tastes are not unquestioningly catered to.

                                                                                                                                                I agree that to wish bankruptcy upon a business/chef a continent away from oneself who's satisfying diners in his restaurant is "very odd."

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                                                                                                                                                1. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                  b
                                                                                                                                                  Bkeats RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 09:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                  "I always thought Chowhounds tended to be more adventurous and were willing to try foods out of their comfort zones."

                                                                                                                                                  If only this were true. There are plenty of CHs who have a particular view on a food item and how it should be sourced and prepared and anyone other version is at best inferior or even just wrong. Those CHs can then spend a lot of energy trying to convince those who think otherwise. I sometimes get involved in those discussions then realize the futility of taking a differing view. That's when I move on.

                                                                                                                                                  There can be as much hate as love about any chow item on these boards.

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                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                    c oliver RE: Bkeats Jul 31, 2013 10:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                    I always wonder if they're, in their heart of hearts, really CHs. Now I had a MIL whom I wouldn't let order corned beef hash at a local restaurant cause I knew their prep would completely freak her out whereas I loved how it tasted and also how they had put their own spin on the dish.

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                                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                      b
                                                                                                                                                      Bkeats RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 10:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Bravo c oliver for knowing when to use they're vs their. I guess you even know how to use there. Now someone will call me out for being a pompous grammarian. I just appreciate clear concise writing even on the interwebs.

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                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                        c oliver RE: Bkeats Jul 31, 2013 10:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Well, thanks. I lay it all, for better or worse, at the feet of the nuns from a half century ago :)

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                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                          mcf RE: Bkeats Jul 31, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                          Oh, I KNOW the diff, but in my old age, I always misspell homophones, all of them. You'd think I'd get them right 50% of the time???

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                                                                                                                                                    2. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                      Steve Green RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 09:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Rereading the original menu treatise, the end part in so many words says: "Once you've paid, and you see a lot of people waiting, it's time to leave". Sure, they can do what they want, but I see that whole piece as a big "F-you" to the customer. If I were ever handed a menu with something like that on it, I would be so gone.....

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                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Steve Green
                                                                                                                                                        mcf RE: Steve Green Jul 31, 2013 10:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                        " If I were ever handed a menu with something like that on it, I would be so gone....."

                                                                                                                                                        I think they've decided that's a risk they'll take. I mean, it's ham handed, no question, but I'm always conscious of folks waiting a long time for a table, and don't linger post meal in such cases.

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                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                          c oliver RE: mcf Jul 31, 2013 10:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                          Agreed. And who knows if there was a history of 'offenders.' I remember some years ago a CH said that she liked a particular place because she could sit there for an hour or more after eating and read the paper. I felt badly recently when four of us sat visiting and I didn't notice there were several parties waiting.

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                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
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                                                                                                                                                            Bkeats RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                            I think the menu actually speaks of real life experience and the tendency of some diners to ignore polite requests from the restaurant so Chef Chris had to become more upfront. Look at the at the original menu then the current version. That tells me that the original message wasn't being heard by enough people so that it had to be made stronger. As to being requested to move along when there's a line, I actually think that's LCK's attempt to be mindful of all their customers. Who hasn't had the experience of waiting in a long line for a meal and feeling resentful about the lingerers who have finished their meal and seem to then revel in holding onto the table for just a bit longer? Get up and move it I want to say.

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                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                              c oliver RE: Bkeats Jul 31, 2013 10:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                              That recent morning I apologized on the way out to those waiting. Especially at breakfast, when people are hungry and wanting some caffeine, "move it." :)

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                                                                                                                                                          2. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                            Perilagu Khan RE: mcf Jul 31, 2013 12:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                            AFAIC, if I've dropped coin in a restaurant, I've also purchased the right to tarry a bit. Nothing destroys the atmosphere of a restaurant meal more than feeling like you have to rush through it and get the hell out. To me, that's not a restaurant, it's a human feed trough. And as for those who are waiting, if they're that incommoded, they can find a joint with a shorter wait. I've done it many a time.

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                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                                              mcf RE: Perilagu Khan Jul 31, 2013 02:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                              There's no suggestion that you rush through your meal. Only that you free up your seat once you've enjoyed it if folks are waiting.

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                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                                Perilagu Khan RE: mcf Aug 1, 2013 08:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                True. But the general tone of the edict hardly inspires a relaxed and leisurely dining experience. I imagine this is the sort of place that is presenting you with the check before you've received your cuppajoe. But, hey, some folks are suckers for abuse.

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                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Perilagu Khan
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                                                                                                                                                                  flavrmeistr RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 1, 2013 09:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  Apparently, they line up for it on LI. I remember hearing years ago about a place in NY that was famous for abusing customers. People loved it, but I think it was more schtick than gratuitous arrogance.

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                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                                                                    Perilagu Khan RE: flavrmeistr Aug 1, 2013 09:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I've heard of such places. Been in one, actually. Gates BBQ in KC is notorious for having rude and demanding order-takers. I didn't dig it, although the cue was outstanding.

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                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Perilagu Khan
                                                                                                                                                                    mcf RE: Perilagu Khan Aug 1, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I think the tone could be improved. But my other inferences are not as harsh as yours. What is written would not make me feel rushed or unwelcome, just some mild surprise at the message delivery.

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                                                                                                                                                          3. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                            kaleokahu RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 09:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                            Hi, churros:

                                                                                                                                                            To each his own. The policy, while inhospitable (and gratuitously so) is legal and the proprietor's choice.

                                                                                                                                                            Let's be clear, though. The breakfast menu in question here is quite diner- and pancakehouse-ish. They literally sling hash, with all the rest.

                                                                                                                                                            Perhaps I'd feel differently if Chef Chris used a discreet "Sorry, no modifications or substitutions" endnote, as most restaurants with such a policy do. Putting it the way they do (*and* in bold *and* in the marquee) is arrogant and sets an offensive tone. If that strikes you as odd, that's just the way *I* serve it up, sorry.

                                                                                                                                                            And FWIW, the preps themselves *are* appealing. That's not the problem, nor is the (single) "adventurous" prep--Maple Mesquite Sweet Potato Tots.
                                                                                                                                                            .
                                                                                                                                                            Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                            Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                                            1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                              cowboyardee RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                              This gets to the heart of the matter.

                                                                                                                                                              I don't mind no substitution policies, and have defended them in the past. Likewise, I don't mind restaurants asking that diners move along in a timely manner after their meals. It's a tough business, and these are reasonable policies - if you make the food and the rest of the experience good enough, I'll be happy to play along.

                                                                                                                                                              But the way they wrote their policy on their menu is just f***ing obnoxious. Bad PR.

                                                                                                                                                              I gather they're not hurting for business. But still, if they insist on flipping off their customers on their menu, it shouldn't be surprising if a few people return the favor.

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                                                                                                                                                              1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                c
                                                                                                                                                                churros RE: cowboyardee Jul 31, 2013 02:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                I can see why people might find the wording obnoxious. But given the hostility expressed by some on this thread on "how dare the restaurant not cook the eggs the way I want", it's easy for me to see why they opted for a longer explanation.

                                                                                                                                                                And it looks like they took a somewhat softer approach in an earlier menu. Given the changes to the wording, my guess is many customers questioned the policy or ignored it. The current wording makes it pretty clear what they do and do not allow and why.

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                                                                                                                                                              2. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                                Dcfoodblog RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 10:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                Actually I think it's a pretty thoughtful caveat emptor. As someone who has asked for adjustments and substitutions from time to time, I appreciate it when a restaurant is clear about what they can or can't do. I appreciate that they gave an explanation of why they can't make substitutions. That being said, not a place I'd go, especially for breakfast.

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                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Dcfoodblog
                                                                                                                                                                  mcf RE: Dcfoodblog Jul 31, 2013 10:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  I now plan to go, but definitely not for breakfast.

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                                                                                                                                                              3. re: churros
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                                                                                                                                                                flavrmeistr RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                What's adventurous about a fried egg?

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                                                                                                                                                                1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                                                                  c
                                                                                                                                                                  churros RE: flavrmeistr Jul 31, 2013 02:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  I personally wouldn't characterize someone who is extremely rigid about how he/she wants eggs cooked and then gets worked up over a restaurant who chooses to serve eggs a different way as adventurous.

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                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                                    c oliver RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    Exactly. If the restaurant feels that strongly about their products then I want to eat them THAT way. If I don't care for, I can go somewhere else next time. No biggie.

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                                                                                                                                                                2. re: churros
                                                                                                                                                                  NonnieMuss RE: churros Jul 31, 2013 10:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  I think the policy is okay - it's their business and they have the right to do what they want, but I don't like the wording. A simple "No substitutions - please discuss allergies with your server." would get the same point across. It implies that if you don't want it their way, you're stupid - "If you do not like perfect omelets then you may order it well done, but we suggest otherwise." and "Eggs are prepared the way we feel they are best..." Like you're automatically wrong and overruled before you even order.

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                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: NonnieMuss
                                                                                                                                                                    c oliver RE: NonnieMuss Jul 31, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I don't read it as any different from a steak place saying "order your steak well done at your own risk."

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                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                      cowboyardee RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 10:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      The faint twinge of humor in that statement makes it a lot more palatable. Also the fact that the steakhouse isn't so long winded. It's a cumulative effect. By the time I was reading about how their food is prepared by Chefs, not short order cooks, I had lost my appetite.

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                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                        NonnieMuss RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 10:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        I've never seen that - but I do often see the "ordering meats cooked under medium may kill you" caveat. But that's a health/safety thing, not a the-customer-is-wrong thing.

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                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: NonnieMuss
                                                                                                                                                                          c oliver RE: NonnieMuss Jul 31, 2013 11:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          Actually it's more a CYA thing but, yeah.

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                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: NonnieMuss
                                                                                                                                                                            Perilagu Khan RE: NonnieMuss Jul 31, 2013 12:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            I'm not sure I've ever seen it either, but I've heard of it. At any rate, such a statement hardly evinces the hauteur of Chef Chris' royal edict.

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                                                                                                                                                                    2. PotatoHouse RE: Gastronomos Jul 31, 2013 11:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      Let us sum up this debate in this manor. Would ANY of you tell a guest in your own home that they had a choice of A, B, or C for breakfast but the eggs will be cooked in only a certain manner dependent upon their choice of dish no matter of their personal preference?

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                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                        jrvedivici RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        Just because of this post, next time I have guests overnight this is EXACTLY what I'm going to say and do. Just for the hell of it. I shall report back when it happens.

                                                                                                                                                                        Anyone want to sleep over?

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                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood RE: jrvedivici Jul 31, 2013 03:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Hey, it's your manor. Your manor, your rules :-D

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                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                          c oliver RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 11:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          We're just winding up a visit that included seven adults and two small toddlers. I offered NO choices. I cooked it and they ate it. Granted what I cooked was quite middle of the road. No runny egg, for instances.

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                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: c oliver
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                                                                                                                                                                            flavrmeistr RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 03:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            What did you charge them?

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                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: flavrmeistr
                                                                                                                                                                              c oliver RE: flavrmeistr Aug 1, 2013 08:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Actually they offered to pay :)

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                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                              kaleokahu RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 06:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Sounds fun. Just water all around, too?

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                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                c oliver RE: kaleokahu Aug 1, 2013 08:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                No, like the cafe in question, choices of drinks :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                  kaleokahu RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 08:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                  Wow. Would you let them mix their iced tea with lemonade if they wanted?

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                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                    i
                                                                                                                                                                                    INDIANRIVERFL RE: kaleokahu Aug 2, 2013 10:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                    I would let them mix export beer with their lemonade. At least in the summer.

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                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                      c oliver RE: kaleokahu Aug 2, 2013 10:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      No iced tea or lemonade but we had a great white peach sangria.

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                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                cowboyardee RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 11:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Do you have strangers show up at your house who expect you to cook them breakfast in exchange for money?

                                                                                                                                                                                A business transaction is fundamentally different than a social engagement. The problem in this case wasn't that the business opted to set terms on its transactions, but that it's being kindof a dick about it.

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                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                                  PotatoHouse RE: cowboyardee Jul 31, 2013 11:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                  My point is that I would expect a business, which depends upon customers being happy with their provided service, to treat said customers with at least as much grace and deference, if not more, than any of us would treat friends and family in our own kitchens.

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                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                    c oliver RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 12:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    I think this whole thread would make more sense if the place weren't doing well. But it is, so obviously there are plenty of people who are fine with it so there's no argument that they want to make.

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                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                      cowboyardee RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 01:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Their business depends not specifically on customers being happy but on generating more money from customers than they spend in costs and expenses. As such, turning tables quickly and imposing menu limitations so that their cooks can execute efficiently and with adequate quality control, might be a good choice for them. Or it might not - I'm not running their restaurant.

                                                                                                                                                                                      OTOH, and as I've said before, I don't see the business sense in wording their terms as they do. Reads to me as disdain for the public and an out of control ego instead.

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                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                                      kaleokahu RE: cowboyardee Jul 31, 2013 12:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, cowboy: "...being kindof a dick about it."

                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes. I initially thought it might be, as another poster put it, a NY kind of thing. But the name, the "About Us", etc. suggest that this place wants to convey a West Coast vibe.

                                                                                                                                                                                      I hope Easterners don't think this is what passes for acceptable behavior out West. Maybe that's why they settled in NY.

                                                                                                                                                                                      As to your business transaction distinction, I agree. It's their policy. But it really takes a hare-brained chef to set one against flipping a fried egg.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                      Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                        c oliver RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 12:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Wasn't it discussed above that "Left Coast" refers to the left coast of Long Island? Or did I dream that?

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                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                          kaleokahu RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 12:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi, c oliver:

                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, someone *said* that upthread.

                                                                                                                                                                                          But if you read the "About", Chef Chris is exceedingly proud of his California roots (naming his daughters Cali and Cade West), and blathers on about his 7+ years of cooking in the Bay Area (that would be the San Francisco Bay). That is where he says discovered that he was--I'm not kidding--"good", and that his 6-foot wife with flowing hair liked him because he wore--again, no joke--straight-legged chef's pants. It's also where he believes that his public access cable TV show was--his words--"wildly popular".

                                                                                                                                                                                          The way I read this, he thinks his "theme" is West Coast, not the west side of Long Island. I wouldn't put it past him to have confused Eastern parlance with Western and named his restaurant "Coast" after a "Shore". When you go, you should ask him, if he'll deign to even talk with patrons before kicking them out. Check to see if he's wearing MC Hammer chef's pants while you're at it.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                          Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                            c oliver RE: kaleokahu Jul 31, 2013 02:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            "The way I read this"

                                                                                                                                                                                            "I wouldn't put it past him"

                                                                                                                                                                                            "if he'll deign to even talk with patrons before kicking them out."

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                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                              kaleokahu RE: c oliver Jul 31, 2013 03:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              So, you still think this guy's resto is named after the west side of Long Island?

                                                                                                                                                                                              I think what we have here at LCK is a knucklehead. It all fits.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                c oliver RE: kaleokahu Aug 1, 2013 11:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.longislandexchange.com/lon...

                                                                                                                                                                                                Since that's a Long Island bridge, I'm guessing he's referring to that. But who cares? I think it sounds like a good place to eat and he certainly has the credentials.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                  mcf RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 11:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  No one considers Queens or Brooklyn to be Long Island. Geography notwithstanding. They just aren't. Long Island, politically, culturally, for practical purposes, is Nassau/Suffolk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just saynzall. ;-)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                                                                    c oliver RE: mcf Aug 1, 2013 03:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not sure what I said that led you to believe I thought otherwise. I've only been to LI once but it certainly wasn't a borough of NYC :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                            EM23 RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 09:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the name of the restaurant is a nod to his home state, but, in the video on their web site, the chef describes his restaurant as “hip” with “city-like food."

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                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                                                                                              Perilagu Khan RE: EM23 Aug 1, 2013 09:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hip, eh? Surprise, sur-bleedin'-prise.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EM23
                                                                                                                                                                                                kaleokahu RE: EM23 Aug 1, 2013 09:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi, c oliver: " [B]ut...the chef describes his restaurant as “hip” with “city-like food.""

                                                                                                                                                                                                Now *that's* an interesting take--hip and city-like mean an East Coast theme. Is that because there're no hipsters or cities in California? Or is it because the resto's graphic of the Golden Gate Bridge is decidedly East Coast?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                Kaleo

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                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                  c oliver RE: kaleokahu Aug 1, 2013 10:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  kaleokahu, I think you need to get out more. This has clearly assumed more importance than any such minor topic should ever assume :)

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: c oliver
                                                                                                                                                                                                    kaleokahu RE: c oliver Aug 1, 2013 10:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ah, but it's so fun to dance with you...

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                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                          mcf RE: PotatoHouse Jul 31, 2013 02:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          If I have a lot of breakfast guests, I'm not cooking eggs to order, I'm making a breakfast casserole or frittata and cutting it up, putting out other stuff for them to fix themselves, plenty of coffee on.

                                                                                                                                                                                          With one guest, I'll cook eggs to order, maybe two.

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                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                                                                                                                                                            c oliver RE: mcf Jul 31, 2013 02:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Exactly what I did. Breakfast casserole and fruit.

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                                                                                                                                                                                        3. d
                                                                                                                                                                                          deputygeorgie RE: Gastronomos Jul 31, 2013 12:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          I could understand if the dishes were complex, but telling me how I'm going to eat my eggs? No way. I just wouldn't eat there. I'd be disgusted if I was served runny scrambled eggs. Some people aren't.

                                                                                                                                                                                          5 Replies
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                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: deputygeorgie
                                                                                                                                                                                            mcf RE: deputygeorgie Jul 31, 2013 02:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            I definitely would not go there for breakfast for the same reason.

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                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: deputygeorgie
                                                                                                                                                                                              l
                                                                                                                                                                                              linus RE: deputygeorgie Jul 31, 2013 02:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              i think there's a fundamental distinction to be made here:

                                                                                                                                                                                              they're not "telling you how to eat your eggs."
                                                                                                                                                                                              they are selling eggs cooked a certain way. and you're free to buy them, nor not.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linus
                                                                                                                                                                                                Chemicalkinetics RE: linus Jul 31, 2013 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                That is a very interesting way to put it. Insightful.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linus
                                                                                                                                                                                                  c oliver RE: linus Jul 31, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ooh, good point. And well said.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linus
                                                                                                                                                                                                    mcf RE: linus Jul 31, 2013 05:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Eggzackly!!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                2. linguafood RE: Gastronomos Jul 31, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Now I know why I eat my eggs at home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  They're so controversial.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. Firegoat RE: Gastronomos Aug 1, 2013 09:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    One of my favorite restaurants back in the day known just for breakfast and brunch suddenly had waiters with attitude and wearing shirts that said "No Camping" on the back. I switched restaurants and gave someone else my hard earned money. I don't need attitude over eggs.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. cowboyardee RE: Gastronomos Aug 2, 2013 11:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      This thread got me thinking about how a 'no substitutions' policy might benefit a restaurant. The increasing prevalence of no sub policies is generally blamed on either egomaniacal chefs, or dealing with a public with ever more food restrictions, and/or making the actual cooking in the kitchen more manageable and efficient.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      But I'm thinking that no-sub policies might also be in part a reaction to... chowhound. Well, CH and yelp, and urbanspoon, and a trillion bloggers/reviewers, etc. I think it might help a restaurant to manage its public image. I'll explain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      For starters, a basic premise:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Getting bad reviews complaining about a well-known policy of the restaurant (but ignoring the food) is NOT as bad for a restaurant as if those same reviews were complaining about the quality of the food itself. Some people don't mind the policy; almost everyone minds bad food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Imagine you look up a restaurant on yelp - 50 reviews raving about the food, 30 reviews that barely mention the food but rant about how awful no-substitution policies are. Many people (myself included) seeing those reviews would consider going to the restaurant in question. Now imagine another restaurant with 50 glowing reviews, and 30 more saying the food just isn't that great. Now, I'm more hesitant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      A no-substitution policy accomplishes two things. For one, it gets rid of this review:
                                                                                                                                                                                                      'So I order the chicken salad and I tell the waiter to hold the mayo. The waiter comes back in a couple minutes and tells us the chef thinks the chicken salad is better with mayo. I know what I like, thank you very much. So the waiter says the chef suggests a vinaigrette instead. WTF? Who ever heard of a vinaigrette on chicken salad? I tell him no, and he slinks off. I'd be willing to forgive all that if the food was good, but when the chicken salad came out it was bland and dry! Never going back.'
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Or, worse, the person who complains the chicken salad was bland and dry without mentioning their requested modifications.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Second, and more importantly, it sorts customers by driving away some of the hardest ones to please at the outset. It attracts people who are open to trying things the way the kitchen thinks is best - who are more likely to enjoy the food for what it is. And repels people who have more specific criteria for what is enjoyable to them. Head them off before they come in... and they don't damage the restaurant's public image by writing a bad review of the food, telling their friends about a bad or mediocre meal there, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Making a restaurant (or business in general) successful is less about pleasing everybody than it is about finding one segment of the market that will reliably spend their money there. Succeeding despite pissing off some people with a no-sub policy is likely easier to do than succeeding despite a lot of faint praise and bad reviews about the rest of the restaurant experience.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        coll RE: cowboyardee Aug 2, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        You are so right. My sales manager always used to encourage us to "fire" our most difficult customers. It was good advice and I took it to heart. Made a stressful job a lot easier, plus then I had the time and energy to find more reasonable people to deal with.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. The Chowhound Team RE: Gastronomos Aug 2, 2013 12:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Folks, several branches of this thread are just a couple of different people going back and forth in an increasingly unfriendly manner, so we're going to lock it now.

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