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Rude guest?

Had invited a friend over for dinner tonight and had asked her if she liked fish. She said yes so i bought salmon. when she came over and told her I was going to cook salmon she said not to because she doesn't eat salmon. My fiancé then offered to get takeaway for all of us and she let him. Is it me or is this just out right rude?

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  1. Very rude. I would have just gone ahead with the dinner and she could have eaten the side dishes.
    Never have her over for dinner again.

    46 Replies
      1. re: wyogal

        Agreed. If someone asks "do you like fish", I will assume that anything from sushi to sauteed octopus to tilapia to halibut could be served....the widest possible parameters of "seafood" in type and in types of prep. If I have a qualm about something, I'll say "Oh, everything except jellyfish"....not "yes, I like fish"...and then when salmon's being served do the equivalent of the playground "PSYCH! GOTCHA! but not salmon!"

        Your guest sounds very clueless and spoiled. I would have done as wyogal did.

        1. re: pinehurst

          " Your guest sounds very clueless and spoiled"
          (This post is directed more to the general responses here that at pinehurst in particular)

          I'll accept clueless but I think if anyone is "spoiled" it's probably us hounds who are much more worldly in the ways of food than your typical American. We've been very spoiled by having had the opportunity to try and enjoy all kinds of food, many of us from a young age. In probably 3/4 of this country salmon would be considered an exotic fish and probably half the people in the USA have only experienced canned tuna, fish sticks, or a McFish sandwich.
          My guess is that the guest is young, grew up in a stereotypical meat and potatoes home and the thought that serving fish might mean salmon never would have entered her mind.
          Yes, still rude for her not to suck it up and eat what she was served but OTOH, the OP's fiance did make the gracious offer (kudos for him) and my bet is that he made it in such a way that it sounded like "no big deal", to make the guest feel OK.
          As far as the many posters who are suggesting never to invite this "friend" back, all I can say is WTF? I can't be her friend because she doesn't like salmon and accepted my fiance's offer to get take out? Tough crowd us hounds. Friends are friends. If my friends or I let food likes or dislikes or even the occasional social fopaux dictate our friendships I'd be a single guy eating by myself each night and not because I'm such a class act - I probably would have been dumped way back when I was in my 20's. Next time cook something "safe" for her and finish up with a Betty Crocker cake.

          1. re: bobbert

            ... and who is doing the stereotyping? sheesh.
            It's not about her not liking salmon, she was rude about it. Quite rude. and it wasn't just the salmon, it was everything about the meal. It hurt the hotess' feelings.
            some friend.
            I don't know if I'd dump her as a friend, but I'd never invite her for dinner again.

            1. re: wyogal

              Sheesh. As I said, I think she was rude although I don't believe she deliberately tried to hurt the OP's feelings and intent means a lot.
              Personally, I don't know of anyone who I consider a "friend" who I would not invite to dinner. I regularly, if not always, adjust my menu based on who is coming over whether that means subtracting or, more often, adding dishes.
              By the standards being set here, my own mother wouldn't be invited to my house.
              Yeah, it was rude, the OP's fiance made a very nice gesture to make his guest comfortable and we live and learn. If we value the person's friendship, next time we ask more questions. Hopefully, the guest does some growing up at the same time. In the whole scheme of things, I think this is pretty minor.

              1. re: bobbert

                Bobbert, whilst I agree with most of what you have said, I'm struggling to see how this is a minor issue.

                Yes, you are right our friend did grow up in a meat, potatoe & three veg household and eats quite a bit of fast food so perhaps salmon is considered a little exotic in her world.

                She is in her mid 40's however and should have more of a idea of proper etiquette when invited to dinner in someone's home.

                I agree intent is extremely important, as you stated above and I agree she deliberately try to hurt me but she most certainly was recklessly indifferent to whether I was or not I was.

                I've never seen her behave like this and that is why I have called her my friend...

                1. re: imogenvats

                  For some reason I tend to equate poor manners with my U.S. brethren :-)
                  Except for her age (which makes her announcement that she will not eat salmon quite a bit more rude) I think I filled in the blanks pretty well. I'm also willing to bet that your fiance was so smooth in disarming the situation with his offer that the guest probably didn't even realize that she was putting you out. Because of his quick actions, the opportunity for her to see that she had hurt you may have been missed. He sounds like the hero of this story.
                  As far as this being a minor issue, I guess that's really up to you. Maybe I've been burned so often, as often by family as by friends who don't eat this or that, who have put ketchup on $17 per pound halibut and most recently ice in a glass of $100 bottle of wine that I've learned to slowly shake my head and just move on, making note that "next time, fish sticks for him and a box-o-wine for her".
                  I have quite a few friends who are barely Neanderthals - I make adjustments when they're coming by.

                  1. re: bobbert

                    I had someone put catsup on my cheese souffle.

                    1. re: bobbert

                      You were doing fine until you mentioned "US brethren". Having lived in the UK for 5 years and spent most of my 60+ years involved with foreigners...trust me..it's no wonder Neanderthals evolved in Europe. Some of the comments I got over there and over here were equally boorish

                      1. re: bobbert

                        Very true!! Im slowly learning to be more patient and assertive with people. I too have witnessed some pretty odd behavior still can't help but gasp. Went out with someone who doesn't eat any vegetables who sent his open plate yiros back because there was a tiny piece of capsicum on one of the pieces of meat. Go figure....

                    2. re: bobbert

                      Sorry about my grammar and typos!! I meant "didn't deliberately try to hurt me"

                      1. re: bobbert

                        "it's probably us hounds who are much more worldly in the ways of food than your typical American"
                        and
                        "In probably 3/4 of this country salmon would be considered an exotic fish and probably half the people in the USA have only experienced canned tuna, fish sticks, or a McFish sandwich."

                        1. re: wyogal

                          I assume we're pointing out my stereotyping. I guess I'm guilty and I'll stick to my not-backed-up-by-any-facts claim that as a group, the people who post on this site are more knowledgeable about food than the average man or woman on the street.
                          I'll also stick by my unsubstantiated claim about 3/4 of the people in America considering salmon exotic and their very limited forays into eating fish in general. I will use as circumstantial evidence the lines I see outside of Olive Garden, the Cheesecake Factory or Red Lobster:-)

                          1. re: bobbert

                            I would assume the same. I may be misinformed, I don't know I have never been to America but my sister who has says that while she loved her holiday in the US the diet was punishing. She said that she struggled to find healthy food options and that even the nicer food restaraunts that she went to offered mainly gourmet junk food. She was on budget so in no way am I saying she went to really nice restaraunts but that is the overall feel I got from her. Still find it odd how limited people's diets are when things like salmon are so readily available and sourced from local super markets and not from specialty shops.

                            1. re: imogenvats

                              pls come visit us, but do eat at (real) Asian, Middle Eastern or Mexican joints - we have plenty of great ones in every city! and there is FAR more to be found than what is seen on TV.

                              or plan on day or two of spinach salad, if you go with the standard advertised stuff.

                            2. re: bobbert

                              Cheesecake Factory and Red Lobster both have salmon on their menu. Since farmed salmon became more widely available quite a few years ago, it's sort of become the new chicken breast. So 3/4 of the population may be a bit of an exaggeration.

                              1. re: pamf

                                Actually, the statistics show that 3/4 of the US population does not eat salmon (see one of my other posts somewhere in this thread - I'm not sure how they're organized anymore).

                                I did take the time to look at the menu of the Cheesecake Factory, Red Lobster and Olive Garden (which also has salmon on the menu). For all that's "bad" for you on these menu's in terms of fat, sodium and calories, the salmon dishes are actually pretty good so, if you should find yourself in one of those lines, go with the salmon. I can't vouch for their preparations but at least it won't kill you.

                                1. re: pamf

                                  I would argue that tilapia is the new chicken breast. Salmon is a close second though.

                                  1. re: melpy

                                    Tiliapia does seem to be showing up a lot lately, probably because it is even cheaper than farmed salmon. Can't say that I care for it though.

                                    I think seafood consumption is on the rise in the general population because of health recommendations to eat healthy fats and get omega 3s. This has become pretty mainstream knowledge in the past several years.

                                2. re: bobbert

                                  All of the supermarkets here in Bloomington, Indiana, sell a lot of fish. The biggest seller is salmon (right now, wild king).

                                  1. re: pikawicca

                                    Really? You still have wild king salmon? Everyone here says they're not finding it on the market any more.

                                      1. re: pikawicca

                                        Not previously frozen? I'm jonesing for it.

                          2. re: bobbert

                            I may be wrong, but the OP's spelling and word usage indicates that she was raised in a country heavily influenced by UK spelling and grammar.

                            It's absolutely possible that she, her fiance and the spoiled brat they invited to dinner aren't American at all.

                            People from all over the world read this board.

                            1. re: sunshine842

                              Your a clever cookie :p I'm an Aussie! What gave it away?

                              1. re: imogenvats

                                Takeaway, knickers, keen
                                And the fact that you had Indian takeout.

                                1. re: melpy

                                  Lol, Didn't realise I stood out like a sore thumb :p

                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                    And your spelling "realise." :-) I love Aussies...one of the best vacations of my life was spent in your country.

                                    1. re: jlhinwa

                                      :) Haha, thought that was the only thing that would give me away and yes I live in a very beautiful country, especially fortunate that we are a multicultural country and get to experience a variety of cuisines from all over the world :)

                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                        from what I have heard I'm VERY jealous of the food you have (OK maybe not if you live in Coober Peady) but Sydney? Melbourne? if I ever get to your land I will be spending all my time at the grocery store (yeah Jorn Utzon opera house, stunning bridge,nice bay yeah yeah ... but look at these whelks!)

                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                        Not a sore thumb. It was definitely a few posts before I made the connection.

                                    2. re: imogenvats

                                      imogenvats: "whilst" gave it away, too! And, AFAIK, few Americans say "take away."

                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                        your grammar and spelling -- nothing at all wrong with it, just sussed out that you weren't schooled in the US, thereby not likely American. :)

                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                          Lol, your a very polite person! My spelling and grammar in this thread has been horrific! Being quite emotional while replying to the comments, I haven't then checked over them to ensure they are coherent. Pretty embarrassed :/

                                          1. re: imogenvats

                                            not at all -- as others have mentioned, "whilst", "-ise" rather than "-ize" -- Indian takeaway --- just little flags.

                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                              don't be embarrassed, as linguistic dissection is part of the fun of international forae!

                                          2. re: imogenvats

                                            "Takeaway" is a decided give-away; we Yanks say "take-out."

                                          3. re: sunshine842

                                            I should have noticed that as well. In some pathetic way, knowing that it's not only Americans that grow up in sheltered lives without learning basic manners is reassuring to me.
                                            Edit to add: while I think I rightly shit on my fellow Americans, on further thought, I think my stereotyping of the eating habits of the typical American might be universally true in other countries as well ( when it comes to eating foods other than what they've been raised on).

                                            1. re: bobbert

                                              " In some pathetic way, knowing that it's not only Americans that grow up in sheltered lives without learning basic manners is reassuring to me. "

                                              yes there are assholes all the world over.

                                              once in a late night round of BS I posited it doesn't matter how one quantifies people; race, ethnicity, social class whatever, as the percentage of idiots (and their more welcome counterparts) remains fairly uniform across all boundaries.

                                          4. re: bobbert

                                            "and the thought that serving fish might mean salmon never would have entered her mind."
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~
                                            Ummm....how could it not, bobbert? What is salmon other than FISH? The guest said she liked "fish". She didn't clarify "but only shrimp and scallops" (which technically means she only likes a few types of shellfish) OR "But I don't like oily fishes like mackerel and salmon."

                                            If this were a good friend, I'd suppose one should know whether she actually likes fish or if there are clarifications. So perhaps this was more of an acquaintance friend. But the person should also have clarified and given specifics of which fish she doesn't like vs. just saying "Yes, I like fish." - when there were obvious dislikes in that entire family of food items.

                                            1. re: LindaWhit

                                              If I were being asked or (at the risk of again stereotyping) the average hound, then of course salmon comes to mind but there are many people I know who ate "fish" every Friday growing up who have never tried salmon or many other non-traditional species of their upbringing.
                                              Come on Linda, you're from the Boston area, you have to know people who had cod or haddock every Friday but never salmon. They're so familiar with eating the type of "fish" that they grew up with they don't think "salmon" or monkfish or ahi tuna when someone asks "do you like fish"?
                                              I still contend the guest was rude in not just eating. My only issue in this thread is the giving of the "death sentence" of never again does she get an invite to my house.

                                              1. re: bobbert

                                                But the OP doesn't say she never had salmon. "when she came over and (I) told her I was going to cook salmon she said not to because she doesn't eat salmon".

                                                If my friend invited me over and told me she was making Mexican or Thai, I would ask if she was using cilantro and if so, if she could put a portion aside before adding the cilantro. And if I didn't think to mention it and she served me cilantro, I would choke it down so as not to hurt her feelings.

                                                1. re: dmjordan

                                                  Bingo. The first thing I think of with both Mexican and Thai is cilantro. And because it tastes only of soap to me, I would ask the same thing, dmjordan. I would *try* and choke it down, but because it is such a vile taste for me, I would have difficulty. I probably would do my best to pick out any visible cilantro leaves and hope for the best.

                                                  1. re: dmjordan

                                                    She does mention that she had only tried smoked salmon but would try it even though she disnt like smoked but then sniffed at the other dishes being served as well. IIRC

                                        2. I think that she let your fiance get takeaway was rude. I think that all of us have odd things that we really don't like/care for that aren't necessarily obvious. Salmon compared to canned tuna fish compared to flakey white fish is distinctive. So I could understand a person enjoying fish in general but disliking salmon specifically.

                                          However, when being a guest at a meal made by friends there are better ways to be a guest. Either just eating a lot of sides, asking for a protein of scrambled eggs, whatever. I'm sure everyone on this site has made it through a friend's dinner party where the food wasn't 100% what they wanted to eat. Doesn't mean you make the host order a pizza.

                                          28 Replies
                                          1. re: cresyd

                                            Agree with this. Yes, rude but.... there's fish and then there's salmon. As cresyd says it's a very distinctive flavor, and if all you've ever had was flounder, haddock or cod it can be a shock. I have a number of relatives who eat "fish" but wouldn't eat salmon or a tuna steak. Still, when you're invited to dinner, unless you're allergic or it violates some dietary law or rule, you smile and eat - who knows, maybe you'll find a new favorite food.

                                            1. re: bobbert

                                              I feel the same way about salmon, I can tolerate it if it's well done and well spiced. But I would not turn it down if offered as an entrée. I'd eat a bit, or mention I like it well done, or something like that I guess. It's so popular now that I'm surprised people don't serve it more often, guess I'm just lucky.

                                              Once we went to a friend's for dinner, he had a new girlfriend who was visiting from Greece and she wanted to make some family favorites for us. Speaking to her on the phone, I could tell she was nervous yet excited, and I wanted to make this as easy as possible for her. Then we get there and my husband refused to eat her fish because it wasn't fried, but grilled. I was certainly embarrassed and even tried to eat extra to make up for him. I definitely considered him rude at the time. I would not let her make anything else for him, or god forbid takeout. I know they were a little puzzled and a bit put off by his behavior.

                                              On the other hand, I brought some corn to go with her meal, got it at the local farm which is famous for it. Figured it was a summer BBQ, right? When I handed it to her, I don't think she knew what to do with it so she stuck it in the fridge. I didn't consider that totally rude; but on the other hand, I'm not married to her!

                                              1. re: coll

                                                I know you meant well but an unexpected batch of fresh corn might be the last thing I would want to deal with if I'd already planned dinner. Off the cob, yes. Shucked, maybe. Unshucked - no:-)

                                                1. re: miss_belle

                                                  and like flowers and bottles of wine, unplanned food is a gift to be used or not at the discretion of the host.

                                                  (Me? I'd have been stashing it in the fridge so I didn't have to share :P )

                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                    Thanks for the feedback, I'm trying to remember my reasoning with the corn. I remember her being really nervous that she was serving what she would have made in Greece, she knew how my husband was at trying new foods. So I thought something American would a be fun addition, and something I knew he would eat. She was trying so hard to learn about American cuisine. My plan was to ask for a pot and show her how. She had passed on a few tricks from her home to me. Hopefully her boyfriend taught her about corn on the cob over the next few days. Anyway I'm sure that's not the only contribution I brought! Just the one I remember.

                                                    Poor girl, she was such a sweety but maybe too young, so they broke up and she went back home, to my eternal sadness. Oh well. I really liked her.

                                                2. re: coll

                                                  In some European countries, corn (maize) was fed to the pigs, and certainly not considered human fare on the cob. She probably simply didn't know what to do with it.

                                                  Not all countries grow sweetcorn. I remember tins of sweetcorn in salads in France, but nobody ate corn on the cob. This might have changed 20-30 years later.

                                                  1. re: lagatta

                                                    That's sort of what I had thought too.

                                                    1. re: lagatta

                                                      Nope. Everybody looks at me weird when I buy corn on the cob at the market, and the guy at the local you-pick who was selling his own fresh-picked from his farm a few kilometres away was positively ecstatic to see me. He said I was the only non-African and non-Asian customer he has, and he peppered me with questions for quite a while about how Americans eat corn on the cob, different ways to prepare it, etc., etc. He'd never heard of putting on the barbecue grill, and didn't realize that it needed nothing more than a little butter to reach nirvana, if it's fresh out of the field like his was.

                                                      The stuff in the grocery stores is old and dimpled and has long ago given up all its sugars for starch -- it's no wonder nobody likes it -- the stuff they are selling is only fit to feed to animals.

                                                      1. re: lagatta

                                                        Barbecued corn is very common in Greece—at least in the southern part of the mainland. It's sold on the street as a treat.

                                                        1. re: Jasz

                                                          Thanks for the info! Good to know.

                                                    2. re: bobbert

                                                      Agreed. I love fish but salmon definitely would not be my first choice. That being said, I've been invited to dinner when salmon was served, and I smiled, ate as much as I could, and told the host how delicious it was all the same.

                                                      1. re: bobbert

                                                        Really? I'd say salmon was a pretty safe choice. Even my pretty-conservative-when-it-comes-to-food parents will eat salmon.

                                                        1. re: greedygirl

                                                          Agree that salmon has become fairly mainstream especially with the explosion of fish farming. But it does have a distinctive taste and there are many who were raised on that Friday white fish who have never tried it or on that one try made a face vowing that they'll never eat it again. Several of my relatives fit that category.

                                                          1. re: bobbert

                                                            Such is the western diet that we have soooo many people who only know or appreciate plastic junk food over quality nutritional food! No wonder the western world has so many obese people waddling around!!

                                                          2. re: greedygirl

                                                            Actually it is not a "safe bet." I know plenty of people who won't eat it even on a dare. I have a friend who loved salmon, her birthday is July 2 . She would always have grilled salmon for dinner until the summer her husband put the salmon on the grill and worms came crawling out of the flesh.

                                                            I just don't like the flavor (tastes like muddy weeds to me) or the texture. The first time I had it as adult I expected that I was really going to love it. What a disappointment. I really cannot eat it. I will make an exception for Copper River wild salmon. My husband love that and it does not get over done it is only available mid May to early June and we'll pay prime $$$ for it.

                                                            1. re: Candy

                                                              if it's wild-caught fish, there's a pretty good chance there will be some worms in the flesh, no matter the species.

                                                              If it's been properly cleaned, however, the chance of this are fairly small (the worms in saltwater species, especially, are big enough to be quite visible, allowing them to be excised easily with the tip of a knife)

                                                              1. re: Candy

                                                                It would be a safe choice for me. I've never met anyone who doesn't like salmon. And it has the advantage of coming in fillets. I know lots of people who hate bones in fish, including Mr GG. Drives me insane.

                                                                1. re: greedygirl

                                                                  Just for giggles, I decided to do a little research on salmon in the American diet (sorry - I know the OP is not American but I was lazy).
                                                                  Interesting data from different sources:
                                                                  Salmon is number 3 in the USA in amount of fish eaten behind shrimp and canned tuna.
                                                                  23 million Americans eat salmon more than once per month HOWEVER, only 25% of Americans eat salmon (I'll do some quick math here... that means 75% of Americans do NOT eat salmon at all).
                                                                  These stats came from http://blogs.nicholas.duke.edu/thegre... I will admit that the blog I got this from is not a primary source but it was just easy to find and the author does reference the primary sources if anyone wants to delve further.
                                                                  From another source: 1/3 of Americans eat "fish" once per week while half of all Americans eat fish "seldom or not at all".

                                                                  My gut feelings? A larger percentage of "hounds" fall into the 25% that eat salmon than the percentage of the general public which may explain why so many of us here think of salmon when someone says "fish" but that thought is probably far from universal.

                                                                  Oh, so as not to miss the main point of the discussion - yes, the guest was rude - more so once the OP gave some follow-up info. Just trying to point out that salmon is not quite as mainstream as many of us think.

                                                                  1. re: bobbert

                                                                    I'm not American.

                                                                    According to the Department for the Environment, four out of five households in Britain eat fish once a month. The most popular seafood choice is salmon.

                                                                    1. re: bobbert

                                                                      Using your numbers, 50% of americans basically dont eat fish. 25% of americans eat salmon. Therefore 50% of american fish eaters eat salmon. So that would imply an american fish eater is as likely to eat salmon as not which would make it highly probable that someone who is serving fish would serve salmon. So if you say you eat fish but don't like salmon, remember to point that out. As someone else said, salmon is like chicken breast. It shows up everywhere. Pretty much the only fish option whenever I go to a banquet, wedding or other catered affair. As fish goes, its cheap and plentiful.

                                                                      As an aside, people are much more likely to have eaten fresh salmon than fresh tuna. I remember the first time I had a fresh tuna steak. Now that was a revelation.

                                                                      1. re: Bkeats

                                                                        Ah, the wonders of statistics! Yes, about half of all fish eaters would eat salmon but half don't. 75% of all Americans don't eat salmon at all.
                                                                        Actually, since salmon represents only about 13% of the fish consumed by Americans (the other 87% is shrimp, tuna, tilapia, cod, etc.) there's statistically only a 13% chance that when someone says they are serving fish it would be salmon. There's a 50% chance that if salmon was served, they would like it but only a 13% that someone serving fish tonight will actually be serving salmon. (my head is about to explode)

                                                                        IIRC (this pesky job of mine keeps getting in the way of my chowhounding), another interesting tidbit I found in my half-assed research is that the amount of salmon consumed in the US has increased anywhere from something like 6 to 10 times in the past 20 years so there is hope for us.

                                                                        And I agree with you about tuna. That was indeed an interesting first bite.

                                                                        1. re: bobbert

                                                                          But only shrimp and canned (not fresh) tuna came before salmon (you didn't specify canned or not so I'm going with not) . Shrimp in my book is shellfish, not fish. I would be shocked if someone invited me over for a fish dinner and offered me canned tuna. So "statistically" speaking, the highest probable fresh fish to be offered at a meal would be salmon. Amazing how you can twist any story you want from the numbers.

                                                                          1. re: Bkeats

                                                                            " Amazing how you can twist any story you want from the numbers."
                                                                            As I myself alluded to.
                                                                            Quite a bit of the salmon is also canned. I wouldn't expect canned salmon either.
                                                                            Some people here say that if someone offered fish, they'd be prepared for octopus. I wouldn't but... just saying.

                                                                            Still, the point is that 75% of Americans don't like salmon, 50% don't really like fish at all and if someone were to say "we're serving fish" and we discount shrimp, canned tuna, and canned salmon (no time to look up the % of salmon that's canned) we're probably talking around a 25% chance that salmon might be on the menu.

                                                                            So, yes, the highest probable fresh fish might be salmon but there's a much higher probability that it would be a different fish. Statistics.

                                                                            1. re: bobbert

                                                                              "the point is that 75% of Americans don't like salmon"

                                                                              Actually, no proof of that exists at all in the numbers above. Only 75% don't eat it. 50% have not eaten fish at all. Don't know why that is the case at all. Could be 50% doesn't like fish, finds it too expensive or doesn't have access to it. Even for the 50% of people who do eat fish, perhaps they would eat salmon more regularly but perhaps its too expensive so instead they buy tilapia. Can't draw a conclusion about like or not. Just the likelihood that any random fish meal will have salmon.

                                                                              For example, I love lobster but for health reasons I eat it maybe twice a year. So my consumption wouldn't even hit once a month in a statistical sample. Can you add me to the group that doesn't like it due to low consumption?

                                                                              Volley to you.

                                                                              Like you said earlier, if it it wasn't for this pesky work thing, we could go for a while

                                                                              1. re: Bkeats

                                                                                Good point. The 75% of the public that do not eat salmon might actually love it but they just don't eat it and those who eat lobster would probably be eating salmon if only they didn't have so much darn money to burn.

                                                                                Yeah, work calls me. It's been fun. I'll fold.

                                                                                1. re: bobbert

                                                                                  This discussion reminded me 50% of the time I'm always right.

                                                                          2. re: bobbert

                                                                            I understand that only 1% of salmon have tasted humans..and they were not happy!

                                                                            1. re: FriedClamFanatic

                                                                              I'm not sure that's correct, I've also heard 10 out of every 6 people have problems with statistics.

                                                            2. I think your guest was rude. I have friends like that, and I've stopped inviting them for meals.

                                                              5 Replies
                                                              1. re: Miri1

                                                                A good friend is eternally trying on new live-in girlfriends. Since we see him a few times a week for dinner, we also have to get along with his girlfriend du jour. One of them was a childish, picky, unpleasant little girl. I spent a little while trying to accommodate her meat and potatoes and ketchup dietary choices (with quality from-scratch versions of the crap she usually cooked) before I stopped inviting them over for dinner. If she cooked, I would just eat before we came over to avoid her "creations" (which I was always careful to be complimentary of, even if they made me want to swallow glass). As I got more and more frustrated with her, the few times I invited them over for dinner, I made increasingly "scary" meals, like lamb, and salad with homemade caesar dressing. It was horrible for her, and made me secretly happy.

                                                                  1. re: Jasz

                                                                    Why not cleverly manipulative?
                                                                    now I got it ;)

                                                                    1. re: Jasz

                                                                      some folks need (ask) to be messed with

                                                                  2. You know, I'm of two minds on this one. I think it's rude to refuse the food offered (and perhaps she ought to have noted the salmon thing when you asked after fish) but if your fiancé offered the food straight away, and if it looked like nothing had yet been prepared, perhaps she agreed because it was offered and seemed easier?
                                                                    I don't know. I think you know her better than we do, but if she is your friend, perhaps she deserves the benefit of the doubt-- especially as your bf made an offer?
                                                                    So, rude to refuse the first offer, but not necessarily in accepting the second.

                                                                    9 Replies
                                                                    1. re: Lizard

                                                                      sorry -- I'm not seeing how it's okay to wheedle one's hosts into paying for two meals, one of which is left untouched after ungraciously turning up one's nose at the original offer.

                                                                      The door was left wide open and swinging on its hinges to say "I like any fish *but* salmon" when the OP enquired as to acceptability of fish.

                                                                      Rude to refuse the salmon, freeloading oaf to let the host pay for takeout.

                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                        Well then clearly I missed something. As I said, it's rude to refuse what so done offers, but I don't see evidence of wheedling- the fiancé offered and that's where I become less comfortable declaring rude, especially as it also seemed that nothing had yet been prepared. I'm not saying I would do this; I'd most likely demur and eat sides, etc. But to escalate the take out to the friend's fault alone in which she is now a 'freeloading oaf' seems predicated on information I did not see, but again, I could have missed something,

                                                                        ETA: And I did miss something- the follow up. With additional information it becomes rude all over.

                                                                        1. re: Lizard

                                                                          Yep, that's what stops me from declaring it rude and wilting in a nice Victorian faint. The fiancé offered and she accepted. If it wasn't a true offer, then that's on him.

                                                                          1. re: Hobbert

                                                                            Of course it was a true offer, it was carried through. However for her benefit only. My fiancé and I were both looking forward to the salmon. She was a guest in our home and being a good host requires you to ensure that you guest is comfortable and happy....

                                                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                                                              Yeah but he didn't have to offer. The requirement to ensure guests' happiness does have its limits. If he didn't want to get takeout you could have just said "hope you enjoy!" and carried on with dinner.

                                                                              1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                I guess I probably shouldn't doubt myself so much.

                                                                                1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                  Hey, if you're annoyed, you have every right to be. Don't let us try to talk you out of your feelings. I don't think you're being unreasonable to be annoyed. It wasn't terribly polite of her. However, as someone who doesn't like salmon, asparagus, or rhubarb, I might have felt relieved if takeout was suggested and assumed dinner wasn't that big of an event if there was an alternative thrown out there. As for paying, well, to me, takeout is cheap and it evens out in the course of a friendship. Just talk to her- that conversation should tell you if it's a friendship worth continuing. Or figure out what else she doesn't like and serve it next time :)

                                                                                2. re: Hobbert

                                                                                  did you see how she sniffed at *every* other dish Imogen made?

                                                                                  No, he didn't have to offer -- but since they were making special dispensation to accommodate her pickiness, she is under the obligation to at least *offer* to pay.

                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                    My thoughts exactly!!! I know I would have paid.

                                                                      2. Obviously this is rude.

                                                                        I have been in both positions: as a host offering food that a guest refuses and as a guest confronted with food that I don't eat or like.

                                                                        In the former case, I do my best to accommodate the guest and then never invite them again, unless it's to a pot luck. In the latter case, I suck it up and have a few bites or let the host serve it and discreetly avoid eating the offending item.

                                                                        1. I like fish but not salmon. It's got a taste all it's own and I don't care for it. So, on the one hand, yes, as a guest, you should eat what you're given. However, it sounds like you hadn't started cooking so maybe she was trying to be helpful and prevent you from wasting food. Your fiancé solved the problem and you can eat the salmon later. No biggie. If you like her as a friend, be more specific in your next invitation. If not, well, don't invite her back to your home.

                                                                          9 Replies
                                                                          1. re: Hobbert

                                                                            the OP asked if she liked fish -- it's then her obligation to specify "not salmon".

                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                              Eh, maybe she didn't think of it at the time. As the OP noted below, the guest agreed to taste it. Fiancé then jumped in with the takeout offer. Maybe it seemed like the easiest solution to the guest.

                                                                              1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                Not buying. If you have a specific fish that you don't like, I'm not buying that talking about fish doesn't bring that particular fish to mind.

                                                                                For whatever reason, I'm allergic to flat fish (but not round fish; go figure) -- I do mention it if someone mentions they're serving fish...why put both of us through an uncomfortable situation? No matter how much I love my friends, I'm not willing to endure the hours of painfully violent vomiting that flat fish will trigger....and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't knowingly inflict it on me.

                                                                                When the fiance offered takeout, the ONLY gracious thing for this unpleasant thing to do was to offer to pay for it herself -- SHE is the reason they're ordering takeout, and SHE is the reason the carefully purchased and prepared (and not inexpensive) original menu is now relegated to leftover status.

                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                  I don't think you need to "buy" anything. It's just what happened according to the OP. I find allergies completely different (flat vs round fish- interesting!) and the guest definitely needs to pipe up. As I said before, the most polite thing would have been to shut up and eat, but I wouldn't write someone off based on one event. Crap, if people did that to me, I'd be a hermit.

                                                                                  1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                    had she just refused the salmon, she might have deserved a second chance -- maybe, depending on length of friendship and prior behaviour. But to then refuse all of the side dishes AND let them pay for takeout is boorish and well-deserving of being scratched off the "friend" list.

                                                                              2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                Thats what I thought. If your fussy with fish and your asked whether you like fish, wouldn't you specify the ones your just not that keen on.....?

                                                                                1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                  yeah I might have said "oh great, but uhh it's not mackerel is it?" or if I failed to do that then played the demur white lie card at the table.

                                                                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                    Agreed. My husband is decidedly not a salmon fan, though he loves most every other delicacy from the sea :) So he would specifically say, "Yes, I enjoy fish...but salmon is not my favorite" if asked the same question you posed your friend.
                                                                                    I have to say, though, were he to find himself in the same situation, he has excellent manners and would have thanked you for the delicious dinner and enjoyed the effort and the good company regardless of whether the specific fish wasn't one of his favorites!

                                                                                  2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                    Agreed. It's not like salmon is a particularly obscure fish. It should be obvious to her that "fish" could encompass salmon. I love salmon but not "meaty" white fish like swordfish or tuna steaks. If someone asked me if I liked fish, I'd either specify generally " yes, but not ..." And, if I'd not thought to specify those or if my host had not inquired in advance, I'd just suck it up and eat a small portion.

                                                                                2. Really appreciate the feedback guys. As I got quite upset about it and dint know whether I was over reacting. I had started cooking. I had chopped up the pumpkin and put it in the oven to roast whilst i was preparing to get the rice on. She had never tasted salmon steak she had only had smoked salmon and said she didnt like it too much. I asked her if she would at least taste it and she agreed and said she would have the sides. So i asked her if she liked asparagus, as that is what i would be serving with it and she said no. So my fiance offered take out. I aslo had bought rhubarb to make a dessert to which she also turned her nose to! Reall y caused me to get my knickers in a knot because i would never let the host get take away because it wasnt my preferred choice . Salmon is also not cheap nor dose it keep long..... :/

                                                                                  15 Replies
                                                                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                    I think your friend wasn't much of a friend. and as for "maybe she was trying to be helpful and prevent you from wasting food," that is ridiculous. This friend seems to think she is the center of the universe, and is apparently quite used to getting her own way.
                                                                                    Some friend.

                                                                                    1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                      you're totally justified in having your knickers in an award-winning macrame.

                                                                                      Bad enough to turn up her nose at the salmon (when she'd never tried it...) but she's an inforgiveably insensitive, rude clod to then also turn up your nose to the other dishes.

                                                                                      I'm afraid I'd have just told her that that's all I had for dinner, and bid her goodbye (forever).

                                                                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                        wow - sad your guest never learned the little white lie: "oh yes, but really only a small portion, it's so rich and I had an unplanned large lunch, I'll just nibble"

                                                                                        you did use only the leaves in the rhubarb dessert, right?

                                                                                            1. re: hill food

                                                                                              Love the "unplanned large lunch" phrase, totally stealing that!

                                                                                              1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                please do. it'll make lives easier.

                                                                                                1. re: hill food

                                                                                                  Sometimes I have an unplanned large lunch because a new place opens up and "research" must be done!

                                                                                              2. re: hill food

                                                                                                As the hostess I would be disappointed in my friend if she told me she had an unplanned large lunch. Who cares if it were planned or not? Why didn't she eat smaller portions knowing that I was making her dinner? It's not as if someone forced food down her piehole. After planning, shopping and cooking for someone, I'd be bummed if she told me she wasn't all that hungry.

                                                                                                1. re: dmjordan

                                                                                                  It is not for you to determine how much your guest should eat. You invite them over for company, not to eat all your food. If they are your friend then they are good company, and how much they eat or why really isnt your business

                                                                                                  1. re: kpaxonite

                                                                                                    No, it isn't my business. But if my guest says she's eating small portions because she ate a big lunch, then I am disappointed that she decided to skimp on my dinner, not her lunch. Now that I think about it more, if she was one of several people over for dinner I wouldn't care. But if she was the only one, as in this case, I would be because the dinner was made just for her.

                                                                                                    1. re: dmjordan

                                                                                                      yes, but still nicer than turning up one's nose and saying all your food is pukey...

                                                                                                  2. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                    I'm pretty finicky when it comes to fish. If my hostess went to the trouble to ask me "do you like fish?" I would ask what kind. Even if I didn't and it was something I had never had before I would definitely tuck in and give it a try. Seems on the rude side to me.

                                                                                                    1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                      Ah, now I see someone who is a pest. Details count!

                                                                                                    2. I'm not a great fan of most fish, including salmon. However, when I went to a friend's for dinner (and she hadn't asked about likes/dislikes) dinner was boiled potatoes, large piece of salmon, and salad. I speared a hunk of potato, a hunk of salmon, put both in my mouth, smiled and swallowed. Even though she's a good friend, I wouldn't insult her offer of hospitality.

                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                      1. re: pine time

                                                                                                        The problem with salmon, for me, is that once you chew and swallow, it just lingers in a really unpleasant fashion.
                                                                                                        Good for you, though!

                                                                                                        1. re: monavano

                                                                                                          Hey, I tried not to chew--just swallowed hunks of fish & potato. Not my favorite dinner, but she's a great friend.

                                                                                                      2. Yes, it rude, but, you have to take some ownership for not being specific.
                                                                                                        I love most fish, but HATE salmon. I mean, it makes me gag, hate.
                                                                                                        I have been very upfront about it and know that menus have changed. Another couple was hosting a party and DH mentioned that she was making salmon and I had to speak up because I won't eat it. I'm happy eating just sides, but didn't want the hostess to find out AT dinner.
                                                                                                        She added london broil to the menu and made the dinner "surf and turf".
                                                                                                        Good sport.
                                                                                                        One time, a hostess made a salmon and pasta dish and although I told her I don't do salmon, she made it anyway and it was the main, no sides to nibble on.
                                                                                                        I picked as best I could.

                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: monavano

                                                                                                          Now there's a question! Was she rude in that scenario? I'd say yes by not providing her guest with something they'd willingly eat.

                                                                                                          1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                                            I have to say, I was scratching my head!

                                                                                                          2. re: monavano

                                                                                                            Yes, and I agree that you have every right to speak up and let the host know of any foods that you just can't stomach before the date but I also think it should be your tough luck if your cooked something your not particularly keen on if you have been asked and did not specify....
                                                                                                            Cooking salmon pasta for someone who has said they aren't keen on it is insensitive but I think it's very different when you have never even tried it and you also turn up your nose to all the sides. I was pretty insulted and felt very disrespected for all the money I spent.... :/

                                                                                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                              I was shocked to read just how much of your meal was snubbed!

                                                                                                              1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                It seems as if your friend doesn't have food issues so much as control issues.

                                                                                                            2. I'm more than likely a bad person, but after reading your further description where the guest cavilled at every offering you were making, including sides and desserts, I pretty much know what I would do.

                                                                                                              I would invite her to stay and eat if she would like. If not she's welcome to leave. I've bought perishable items and prepared for this dinner and this is what I'm going to make. If my fiance offered take out I'd take him into another room and have a discussion.

                                                                                                              So yes my answer is unspeakably rude.

                                                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                Getting take away was above and beyond. It was a very nice thing to do and good for our fiance to just take the hit in the wallet to smooth things over.

                                                                                                                1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                  It is, they are nice people. If it was just the protein issue I'd probably check out the freezer and offer her a chicken breast. But to hate EVERYTHING. Better people than I am.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                    Thanks firegoat, don't see anything wrong with what you suggest you would have done in my shoes,in your comment above.
                                                                                                                    We all sometimes just doubt ourselves about overreacting...

                                                                                                              2. When you mentioned fish, that was her cue to tell you she didn't like/wouldn't eat salmon.

                                                                                                                Keep the salmon on the menu, lose the friend.

                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                  Exactly. Good manners goes both ways. The guest was just as responsible for telling imogenvats that there are certain fish she doesn't like to prevent the situation from happening. She didn't do so.

                                                                                                                  And THEN she chose to say no to the asparagus side and the rhubarb dessert and didn't offer to pay for the takeout that was ordered to accommodate her.

                                                                                                                  Time to 86 the "friend". Because she's well past her expiry date, IMO.

                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                    haha, well said, Linda. "Well past her expiry date" sounds about right to me too!

                                                                                                                2. When I first put an artichoke in front of the woman who eventually became my wife, she had no idea how to eat one. Now, we have them whenever the budget allows. It seems to me that if you accept an invitation to dinner you also accept an invitation to the items on the menu, and not to eat them is rude. Suppose I said to the vegan, "Oh, I'm sorry, I only eat animal proteins and fats." That would be unspeakably rude. This woman's behavior is no different. I would never invite her again.

                                                                                                                  12 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: tlackner

                                                                                                                    A good host(ess) tries to learn the guest's likes, and dislikes as well as allergies and religious constraints.
                                                                                                                    I'm not your mother and I won't make you eat anything that you don't want to!

                                                                                                                    1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                      but it's the guests responsibilities to inform the host, who is presumably not a mindreader, of said likes, dislikes, allergies, and religious constraints.

                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                        We could go back and forth all day, but the bottom line is communication both ways.

                                                                                                                        1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                          The OP communicated that they were having fish. Last I knew, salmon is fish. The guest knew it. The communication break down was the fault of the guest, who, in my view, acted like a brat.
                                                                                                                          The fiance helped out, to probably help his girlfriend out of a bad situation, and tried to fix things so they could move on from the experience.
                                                                                                                          I would never invite this person for a meal again.

                                                                                                                          1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                            This isn't a communication problem at all. (The host did communicate what she was serving.) The guest showed up and turned down every food that was offered. She was over the top rude NOT because she has food likes and dislikes (we all do) but because she put her host in a very embarrassing position.

                                                                                                                            It doesn't matter whether she was "justified" in disliking salmon--there is no right or wrong when it comes to what one likes, only in how they handle the situation when served a disliked food. In this, the guest failed miserably and in such a way that revealed her very selfish character.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Isolda

                                                                                                                              What we will never know is that IF the OP specified salmon, vs. fish in general, if this could have been avoided.
                                                                                                                              So, I disagree with you, respectfully.

                                                                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                Agreed, the OP should have recited every known type of fish instead of being so vague.

                                                                                                                                1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                  That's a different discussion - whether or not salmon should have been mentioned, or has to be mentioned in an future dinner menu disclosure: "we are having fish and salmon" or "we are having salmon fish." The onus was on the guest, when asked, to provide specific dietary desires.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: scoopG

                                                                                                                                    I give up...
                                                                                                                                    Excuse me while I bang my head into the wall while simultaneously complaining of a headache.

                                                                                                                          2. re: monavano

                                                                                                                            +1
                                                                                                                            I kick myself if I don't ask my guests ahead of time. If it's a small group, then I make sure I know what not to serve. If a larger group, then I make sure I have all bases covered (vegan, vegetarian etc, allergies that I know of)

                                                                                                                            1. re: alwayshungrygal

                                                                                                                              The guest was asked.

                                                                                                                              As per the OP: "invited a friend over for dinner tonight and had asked her if she liked fish. She said yes so i bought salmon."

                                                                                                                              This was the guest/friend's chance to declare her salmon dislike.

                                                                                                                        2. The guest was rude.

                                                                                                                          As a vegetarian I have run into the "what to eat at a dinner party" conundrum many times. I always find "something"--- even if it is just some stuff to push around on the plate.

                                                                                                                          Feeding myself, and getting my daily caloric needs is MY responsibility, not yours.

                                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                                          1. re: pedalfaster

                                                                                                                            Amen. I was a vegetarian for over 20 years, and many a time I'd nibble on side dishes or move food around on my plate. I don't recall ever making a scene over my special little snowflake status.:)

                                                                                                                            1. re: pine time

                                                                                                                              Aw, you are OUR special little snowflake!!! :-)

                                                                                                                              1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                                                                What's this -- a "pine" family get-together?? :)

                                                                                                                                1. re: drongo

                                                                                                                                  It's all that ooey pine resin--we stick together. :)

                                                                                                                          2. Wow... very rude! I don't much like salmon myself, but certainly would have eaten it (and enjoyed it, I'm sure).

                                                                                                                            I can see it wouldn't be so rude if you had said "fish" and unexpectedly then served shellfish and it turned out she had an allergy to shellfish or a religious objection to eating shellfish. But even then, I think agreeing to the host going to get takeout would be rude.

                                                                                                                            1. DH and I were invited to a friend's house for dinner for my birthday years ago. Had a lovely app of seared scallops on a bed of baby arugula. Main was lasagna. Do I like lasagna? Well, that's a yes/no question. I can't stand ricotta cheese (It's a texture thing). When I make it, I use a bechamel sauce in it's place. BUT, I kept my trap shut and ate it anyway since she went to so much trouble and I told her how good it was. The next time we were invited to dinner, guess what? She made lasagna again (since I loved it so much the first time). I shut up and ate it again. That's the price I pay because I really truly like these people and enjoy their company. Sometimes we just have to be gracious. BTW - DH LOVES lasagna so he ate enough for both of us!

                                                                                                                              3 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: boyzoma

                                                                                                                                Hah... that's a funny story. Particularly that she made the lasagna again because you loved it so much the first time, lol. That wouldn't happen to me because I can be polite but I can't be effusive about something I really didn't like.

                                                                                                                                1. re: drongo

                                                                                                                                  I've had good salmon and I've had bad salmon at high end restaurants and middle of the road restaurants. I've also purchased and cooked same. Love it when it's good, HATE it when it's bad (wild vs farm, time of year caught, variety, etc. still don't have it figured out). That being said, your friend has bad manners, plain and simple and surely the lack of graciousness has exhibited itself in other areas. There are a multitude of ways she could've handled the situation had she any tact. Who knows? She may have found your method of preparation wonderful.

                                                                                                                                  Regarding your menu choices: While it sounds delicious to me; with the exception of the rice, everything is strongly distinctive ~ not much in terms of "middle of the road". you many want to take that into consideration next time you're planning a dinner for guests.

                                                                                                                                2. re: boyzoma

                                                                                                                                  Love the story about the lasagna. I did that one time when sleeping over at a friend's house. I was probably 11-12 and still a ridiculously picky eater but my mom trained me well so I complimented my friend's mom effusively on her homemade potato pancakes that I choked down. Because I "enjoyed" them so much, I got to eat them every time I stayed over and my mom was given the recipe.

                                                                                                                                  And while I am no Miss Manners or model or decorum, even at that age, I understood that the relationship I had with my friend and her family were far more important than my picky taste.

                                                                                                                                3. Wow, extremely rude guest. I would be happy to be invited to a meal at your home anytime...sounds like you had a lovely meal planned.

                                                                                                                                  I am kinda stunned by two things:

                                                                                                                                  1) That so many people dislike salmon. I had no idea it was so disliked by people who otherwise like fish. I love it...living in the Pacific NW, salmon has been a regular part of my diet as long a I can remember and even when I was a picky kid, I adored it.

                                                                                                                                  2) Not sure whether I would call it tackiness, cluelessness, or nerviness on the part of the guest, but it was definitely out of line. I cannot imagine letting a host completely scrap their menu (with costly and fresh item already purchased) just because I was picky. And then to let them get me takeout. It is mine-boggling. Who hasn't at some point in time or another choked down and used calories on something they didn't care for? It's not like she was going to be force fed poison or an allergen. Sheesh.

                                                                                                                                  10 Replies
                                                                                                                                  1. re: jlhinwa

                                                                                                                                    Salmon is like cilantro. People just don't like it, they hate it. I do. I wonder if it's because my mom never made it.
                                                                                                                                    I hate lox too. It's so beautiful and elegant looking and I just watch people eating in with cream cheese on a bagel and envy them for liking it.
                                                                                                                                    The closest I get to eating salmon is arctic char. It's fatty and a little fishy, but it's just this side of those things and I enjoy it.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                      Yes, my husband is a fish lover, but will not eat salmon. Can tolerate some well seasoned, grilled artic char, but not enthusiastically. It's strong tasting. I'm a salmon lover, but I gag on sockeye, even the sight of it makes me queasy.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                        I grew up on salmon (dad worked for Dept of Fisheries for 40-odd years) and learned early the importance of the "right" species -- begone, evil sockeye -- and the right "cook" -- 30 seconds too long can destroy a fine piece of salmon, so I get why people react to it strongly. I avoid ordering it in restaurants because it is so often overcooked, not to mention overpriced. I've also always disliked lox, so I think it's very possible to like one and not the other. The guest should have taken a small portion of everything and then had a snack when she got home.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                                                          I can't abide sockeye, bleah, not even the sight of it. Most restaurants are serving farmed or "Atlantic" salmon, I never order that. I was hoping to get some king, but no luck locally.
                                                                                                                                          Most places cook salmon med/rare or ask you if that's how you like it, I've found.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                            Curious as to why you and grayelf dislike sockeye, mcf.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                              Texture, mostly, and even the color puts me off. I don't even like it smoked. Too lean for me, or something. I can easily gag on a mouthful of it, involuntarily.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                But other salmon (king/chinook, coho) are OK? I've never had either king or coho, but love the flavor of wild-caught Alaskan sockeye.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                  King is KING with me! I can eat coho, but King is what I crave.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                    We use slightly different names for salmon here in the Great White North. I loves me some spring (aka Chinook aka king) as well -- had a wicked whole white spring on the barbie last summer -- but I'll eat coho and pink happily and have even been getting into chum or dog salmon which seems to be gaining in popularity.

                                                                                                                                                    Sockeye is too strong tasting and oily for me, and agree that the texture and colour are not pleasing. But that just leaves more for the many sockeye fans out there, right?

                                                                                                                                                    The main rule for me is that salmon can never be frozen as that will ruin any of them IMO.

                                                                                                                                                    Second rule is if the fish is whole it must have the head on. Cheek meat, woot!

                                                                                                                                    2. re: jlhinwa

                                                                                                                                      I don't like cooked fish in general (love most shellfish), and particularly dislike salmon. And I live in the PNW. But then again, I admit to being extremely picky. When salmon is the main dish, I'll nibble at a small portion, making sure I don't eat much of anything else either. Anyone I'd dine with knows my medical issues prevent me from eating alot.

                                                                                                                                      A couple of weeks ago, I went down to my folks house for dinner, and knowing that I don't like cooked fish, they asked whether I wanted the salmon raw or cooked. I guess they'd forgotten that I don't like salmon either way. So as not to have them prepare something special for me, I ate a small portion of the salmon - and an extra roll.

                                                                                                                                    3. At 5 my daughter already understood perfectly well that accepting an invitation meant she was required to eat the meal nicely. She came home after dinner at a friend's house, though, sure I would understand and agree that she was right just to pretend to eat the "old, rotten potatoes" (or as I promptly found out from the mom involved, a good friend, au gratin potatoes.) If a 5-year-old can be both mannered and sensible, is that really too much to expect of adults?

                                                                                                                                      If it were me, though, I'd have been more upset with my fiance. From one viewpoint, very gracious of him, but from another, he should have taken his cue from his partner, but inadvertently he undermined you and supported someone who was behaving badly toward you, friend or no.

                                                                                                                                      There will be other dinners and other guests. I hope yous go over this and agree on how problem guests should be handled in future. I.e., as host and hostess acting together, in concert, after whatever combination of exchanged glances or quick confabs is needed to arrive at a decision.

                                                                                                                                      I think it would make sense to agree that, when it comes to cooking a dinner, whoever cooks rules. If both of you, then adjourn to the kitchen briefly. If mostly one, the other takes the cue from the guy in charge.

                                                                                                                                      Loyalty, standing together against the world, knowledge that your partner is always covering your back--every married couple needs as much as possible as soon as possible.

                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                      1. re: Thymus

                                                                                                                                        " From one viewpoint, very gracious of him, but from another, he should have taken his cue from his partner, but inadvertently he undermined you and supported someone who was behaving badly toward you, friend or no."

                                                                                                                                        No he didn't. He was gracious. An uncomfortable moment hosting isn't the time to take up arms against a guest.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                            Wonder if he was gallant enough to untie the knots in her knickers?

                                                                                                                                            And how?

                                                                                                                                      2. You're under no obligation to completely rearrange your menu because she says "don't want".
                                                                                                                                        I'd have fed her peanutbutter sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                        And, if I was being so picky, I'd have been thankful for you serving peanutbutter sandwiches.

                                                                                                                                        If someone is not going to value your hard work, serve them something easy and quick.

                                                                                                                                        Your fiancee was in the wrong by aiding and abetting her (did he not want salmon either?).

                                                                                                                                        10 Replies
                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                          The OP did not indicate that fiance got take out against her wishes.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                            Well I was hardly going make a scene. Honestly my fiancé is a beautiful man and even though I can see how it can be interpreted that he undermined me by offering take out, I know he was only trying to smooth out a uncomfortable situation. Having slept on it, I really feel that my friend was rude and took advantage of our kindness. Yes nice people do try to accommodate their guests as best they can but I think it was extremely rude of her to accept the offer.
                                                                                                                                            Salmon is not obscure fish.She should have specified she didn't like it when queried. As I stated earlier I would never imagine going to anyones for dinner and letting them scap the entire meal and get me take out because it wasn't to my liking. Totally disrespectful and insulting. Only excuse is if she had a allergy. If she really couldn't stomach it she could have sincerely apologised and had the sides. But to turn her nose to the sides as well! Seriously!!!!!

                                                                                                                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                              It was terribly rude and you and your fiance were very kind. In no way should your fiance be penalized for being the bigger person and going out of his way to ensure the evening wasn't a bust.
                                                                                                                                              It was a loving thing to do.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                I don't see it as undermining. Your fiance tried hard, in the best way he could, to try to salvage what was likely looking more and more like a bust of an evening. I say he deserves a toast for helping you host a problematic guest.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                  Your friend needs to learn how to lie better.
                                                                                                                                                  But your fiancee says something when he gives her an out...
                                                                                                                                                  If you said, "let's order takeout" because the dinner is ruined, I'd probably go along with it. She wasn't being an absolute prat and saying "you must order takeout" --someone offered, and she said yes.

                                                                                                                                                  Accepting an offer like that isn't rude (however rude she was in declining everything else).

                                                                                                                                                2. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                  if it had been her wishes to order takeout, she wouldn't have gone to the trouble of planning and shopping for a very nice meal...

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                    It was an audible, so what's your point?

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                      what's she going to do at that point, stand up and yell "Hell no! She can have a baloney sandwich!"

                                                                                                                                                      I'm not chastising the boyfriend -- it was an awkward situation, and he came up with a solution (to which the guest totally muffed the call by not offering to pay).

                                                                                                                                                      But if takeout was on the menu, takeout would have been ordered, and Imogen wouldn't have gone out and bought the fixings for a nice meal.

                                                                                                                                                      The guest's lack of consideration for Imogen's planning, cooking abilities, and budget left both the boyfriend and Imogen fumbling for a graceful way out of a situation that they'd been tactless dumped into.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                        It truly was tactless to allow the hosts to pay for another meal.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                          Given that the guest had snubbed not just the main, but all the sides, I think her spouse was not trying to undermine her at all, but relieve the stress of the situation. Trying to dig up something and prepare it would have been much more stressful for the hostess, at this point, and I can see that her spouse would have wanted to spare her that trouble, especially for someone who probably wouldn't appreciate whatever was served.

                                                                                                                                                3. Once I invited two couples over for dinner. The invitation went out several days before the dinner. The husband of one couple announced he had eaten already and stood away from the table while the rest of us ate the chicken dinner I had prepared. The other couple looked astonished and a bit embarassed for me. The gentleman's wife had brought a cake for dessert and he sat down when that was served. Never invited them again.

                                                                                                                                                  Your friend was mighty rude and deserves to stay home.

                                                                                                                                                  9 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: noodlepoodle

                                                                                                                                                    That is also rude! At least eat a little bit. Blech. Be glad you're not the one married to him!

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: noodlepoodle

                                                                                                                                                      Wow!! You deserve a medal for keeping your cool. I would have been on the verge of cracking up big time!!! Honestly it is beyond me how grown people can justify such rude behavior!!!! Sorry you had to endure what should have been a pleasant and fun evening with such an ass!!

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                        Just out of curiosity what did you get for take-out?

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: noodlepoodle

                                                                                                                                                        We had a similar situation. Invited some relatives over for specifically dinner. A big dinner was made. They arrived an hour late no apologies. Simply stated that they were at a party. Then didn't eat claiming that they just weren't hungry. Frustrated we asked if they had eaten at their other event. First they said no then that turn into some appetizers and that then turned into pizza.

                                                                                                                                                        They won't be coming back.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Withnail42

                                                                                                                                                            Yeah, that's completely inexcusable!!! Poor you!!! :(

                                                                                                                                                          2. Made Oysters Rockefeller for my wife's friend's Christmas party. Had them just out of the oven, and offered her one, and as she is popping it into her mouth I'm telling someone else the ingredients. I mention Pernod, she BOLTS to the sink and spits it out, afterwards claiming "I don't like licorice ".....
                                                                                                                                                            Is your friend just ignorant of fish, or does she just need to learn how to work and play well with others ?

                                                                                                                                                            1. Is it rude, perhaps a bit. I'm picky about my fish and where it comes from. I don't eat farmed raised fish for many different reasons. It is one thing that I am pretty uncompromising about. Would I tell a host about it, probably not. Would I eat it, most likely not. I'd eat the sides and forget the fish. Is it something that would cause me to terminate a friendship, no, not really. People are quirky, I'd give them and your friend some leeway. What ever came of making guests comfortable? As a host, it's your job to do so. I think we are losing sight of that, I would not made a huge deal of it. Made a cheese Souffle, or some omelets. It's fish, it can last for one more day. Put it aside and enjoy something you'd all like.

                                                                                                                                                              4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: lunchmaker

                                                                                                                                                                it's the host's job to make guests comfortable. It is not the host's job to cater to every moral and ethical quirk an whim the guest might choose to inflict upon them.

                                                                                                                                                                Don't eat farm-raised fish? Just say you don't eat fish.
                                                                                                                                                                Eat only organic, hand-fed animals that have had bubble baths and massages every night? Just tell your hosts that you're vegetarian.

                                                                                                                                                                Allergies/sensitivities and religious guidelines are immutable.

                                                                                                                                                                Outside of those, you either eat what the host prepares and sets in front of you, or stop accepting invitations from friends who don't hold the same standards.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                  Absofuckingloutely!!! Thanks sunshine, my exact thoughts! To lunch maker "whatever came of making guests feel comfortable?"
                                                                                                                                                                  Are you serious? We ended up getting her take out and paying for it!
                                                                                                                                                                  Honestly if I ever pulled a stunt like this Id expect to get told to fuck off!!!
                                                                                                                                                                  She could have nibbled on the sides and bought herself take out on the way home!

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                    Haha!

                                                                                                                                                                    This reminds me of an absolutely hilarious Frankie Boyle sketch on giving a dinner party:

                                                                                                                                                                    " ...and for our vegetarian guests, we have an option: you can fuck off."

                                                                                                                                                                    (I paraphrased; it's way funnier when he did it, obviously.)

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                      Or, appologized for not mentioning her disloke for salmon and either taken you guys out or, at least offered to pay for the takeout.

                                                                                                                                                                2. Your friend is tactless. You and your fiance were full of tact and grace. I love salmon and asparagus, rhubarb not so much but I have eaten it when it was prepared by someone for dessert. You can invite me for dinner next time.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. She's rude, but your fiancé handled it very graciously.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. For those of us who socialize with folks while eating, this is a never ending problem. It is encumbent upon the host to ask for food proclivities. The guest should graciously thank the host upon the completion of the evening, after having availed themselves of the viands offered.

                                                                                                                                                                      Some people feel that they can willfully break this social contract without penalty. I just never knowingly cook for them again. Or if I know they will be at a pot luck, it is amazing how I will bring a dish with the salmon in it. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: INDIANRIVERFL

                                                                                                                                                                        I like the way your devious mind thinks ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                        1. So, imogenvats, with all of our brilliant input, will you ever invite her over again? And, if so, how will you handle the menu?

                                                                                                                                                                          6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: pine time

                                                                                                                                                                            The situation caused me great stress as I keep saying I would never let a host order take out because I simple didn't like the food they cooked. Perhaps it wrong to hold people to the same standards as our own. My finance after all did offer take out, and maybe she thought that made it acceptable. She also has invited us over to her place and gone to great lengths to prepare appetizing meals. I'm torn.... I'm not sure that I can invite her over though as in my opinion she behaved poorly the whole night. After all she the critised the stewed rhubarb and custard I made for dessert, asking why some bits of rhubarb were stringy and other were more firm. As well as why I used Splenda instead of sugar? I explained the recipie was from the CSRIO cookbook as my mother is diabetic I've been trying out diabetic recipies that the whole family can enjoy.
                                                                                                                                                                            Really struggling to accept her behavior. Am I being to sensitive..... I don't think so....

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                              No need to accept her behavior, you wouldn't be a good friend if you did. No need to enable that type of behavior, and you really can let it go. If it comes up again, be honest with her and tell her what you thought of it, and if she can't deal with the truth, then tough $hit.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, imogenvats. I sincerely asked because I've been faced with a group of friends who know how I love to cook. We usually always meet at my house for dinner, and several times (most recent Christmas 2011) 2 of them canceled at the last moment, well after food (a Christmas feast, complete with goodie food gift bags to take home) was prepared. I didn't have them over for a 2012 feast 'cause I was hurt and angry. We've met at coffee shops since, but I'm still not sure when/if I'm willing to invite them all over again. So, I get your stance! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: pine time

                                                                                                                                                                                  And I sincerely tried to answer your question. It's a tough one! What happend to you is horrible too! Where do people get off showing such a lack of respect for other people's purses and efforts???!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                  I think they would have to be pretty stupid to not realise that they offended or hurt you, it would hurt anyone!!! Think it probably boils down to the efforts they then make to make up for their bad behavior, whether or not it involves mentioning or even apologisong for what they did :/

                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                  Wait. She then actually criticized the dessert for how it was prepared? And the ingredients used?

                                                                                                                                                                                  No no no no no no no no no. Do NOT invite her again. I truly don't think she has a clue as to how to behave as a guest, and it would continue to cause you stress. This incident will always be in the back of your mind, and you'll be expecting a "Can You Top This?" scenario from her every time.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                    It's either that, or she's extremely passive aggressive. I have one in the family who makes negative comments on my food all the time, it all started after she served us a couple of basically inedible meals. She has no clue how to grill meat but that didn't stop her from making it for company. My husband made a big deal of not eating, and so it began. I don't give her the satisfaction of rising to her insults so I guess it will never end at this point. Life is funny that way.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. I agree, very rude not to at least try to smile her way through it once she realized and also rude to go along with you paying for an entire second dinner, but in response to those who are shocked that she wouldn't immediately think of 'salmon' when presented with 'fish' - I once forgot the existence of tomato soup.

                                                                                                                                                                                I don't like it, so it's never in the house and I never buy or make it. A very nice friend offered to bring by soup a few years back when I was ill and asked if I had any preferences. It was already very nice of him to be bringing me supplies, so I didn't want to make any special requests but also simply forgot the existence of tomato soup as it essentially doesn't exist in "my" world!

                                                                                                                                                                                Naturally it turned out to be his favourite, so he showed up with many variations. Still super kind of him and I tried to cover but unfortunately apparently I don't have much of a poker face while ill. At least we got a laugh out of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: FrenchSoda

                                                                                                                                                                                  but also simply forgot the existence of tomato soup as it essentially doesn't exist in "my" world!

                                                                                                                                                                                  *******
                                                                                                                                                                                  Very insightful way to look at the psychological dynamic in this situation.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: FrenchSoda

                                                                                                                                                                                    That's pretty funny and, also, I think hits the nail on the head in summing up this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                                                                                                                      I still felt terrible, especially when he insisted on going back out to find another option.

                                                                                                                                                                                      But it was pretty funny.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: FrenchSoda

                                                                                                                                                                                      this is an excellent point. I've forgotten the existence of foods I don't like as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                      The guest may have had a mental "oh crap" moment - the "she asked if I liked fish and I TOTALLY forgot to say everything but salmon" moment. BUT, she handled her reaction poorly and was an ungracious guest. I would have a difficult time inviting her over again.

                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Out right rude. As I used to say to my kids, "You have two choices for dinner: take it or leave it."

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. The people most likely to invite me to dinner I know very well. If she said they were having "fish" I would assume frozen fish sticks. With ketchup. I would show up and have a great time eating, then play a ton of board games with her son. I don't like fish sticks. I like my friend and her husband and her son and enjoy the opportunity to hang out with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                        6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh dear, not even jarred tartar sauce? You seem like a fantastic friend! :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ohmyyum

                                                                                                                                                                                            How do you "jar" tartar sauce/ Do you knock it over or something. I understand bottled tartar sauce. Jar is primarily a verb, or occasionally an adjective/noun when some comes in a jar, wide mouth, instead of a bottle. I wonder where this twee usage came from. It is a recent language development. Common usage has always been bottled.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                              Entirely regional. It's jarred in some places, and bottled in others, rather like some things are canned and some things are tinned.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps where you come from. Whilst you may think its twee, word usage and meanings vary, even amongst english speakers. You should travel more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                  By "jarred," I meant commercially prepared and packed in glass; in a jar, as opposed to a bottle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  In any case, my point was that firegoat understands what it means to be a good guest and good friend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps here in the States, but elsewhere, things are jarred and "tinned". A British poster who posts on the WFD threads will say "tinned beans" and I know that he's talking about a can of beans that is being added to his dish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    So, it's not "twee". Just unfamiliar to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. SUPER rude. I don't care if you get served raw snake - if someone is kind and generous enough to serve you food you're not deathly allergic to or religiously banned from, you smile, graciously say thank you, eat it, and say it's delicious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: butterandbeer

                                                                                                                                                                                                  And then throw up in their bathtub? Seriously, some of you people are ridiculous!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sometimes it is psychosomatic. That doesn't make vomiting any more polite.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have to admit, if someone invited me over and asked if I ate beef, I would say yes. But when I get there, they serve liver, I wouldn't eat it. Because I would be vomiting! Believe me, I have tried it. Even the smell of liver would have me running!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: boyzoma

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Believe me, you're lucky.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      A friend of my husband's can't eat vegetables.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      he has videotaped himself trying...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      It doesn't work...

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                        folks like this really should find a graceful way to just turn down dinner invitations.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Possibly. But if it's just "I'll eat the meat and potatoes" that's not so bad, is it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. No question that she was extremely rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm curious if she has a habit of this making people go the extra mile to accommodate her.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. I've read this post and about half of the comments and once again it seems I'm going to go against the majority here, I just don't see any of this as rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I like seafood and quite honestly if I was the guest and I was asked if I liked "fish" I would have responded yes, but I can't stand salmon. (odd side note, I love raw salmon in sushi etc. but I can't stand cooked salmon). So if I were this guest I would have found myself in the exact same situation, it just wouldn't have crossed my mind to respond, yes I like fish except salmon. Sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      But where I really don't see her being rude is she told the poster not go bother to cook the salmon........to me that's almost being polite. I could see it being rude if she was told salmon was purchased, she didn't say she didn't like it, it was cooked, served and the guest pushed the plate away stating at that time she doesn't like it. I can see that as rude, but simply saying not to cook it, everyone considers that rude?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The next thing is the OP says her fiance' offered to get take out. The guest didn't suggest it or ask for it was offered to her by the fiance, again I fail to see how that is rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm sorry folks, absent minded perhaps.....but rude? I just don't see it, sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      7 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I agree that not telling the host she didn't like salmon could have been absentmindedness on the part of the guest. However, telling the host not to cook it and then accepting an offer of takeout instead was quite rude, IMO. The host and her BF still needed to eat, and didn't need to spend more of their hard-earned dollars on takeout. The guest should simply have said nothing and eaten a small portion, or at the most said something like "oh, I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention that I can't eat salmon. You two go ahead, though, and I'll fill up on sides and dessert." And if those weren't to her liking, she should have gotten her own d*mn takeout on the way home!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        BTW, this is why I NEVER serve seafood (or other polarizing meats, like liver) to guests, unless I know for certain that EVERYONE likes a specific dish. There are just too many people who like this sea creature but not that one to think of any of them as safe dinner party choices!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you only read half the responses then you may have missed the follow up in which the guest rejected the sides and criticized the dessert. This guest was rude beyond the salmon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lbs

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes I did miss that, ok I jumped ship!!! Rude, rude, rude!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                            @jrvedivici: I can't abide cooked tuna in any capacity (even tataki makes me want to flea) but I love tuna sashimi -- completely different beasts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Awwww was it too much cooked tuna that made the elf go gray? (lol sorry no offense intended but do you have a story behind your handle?)

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jrvedivici

                                                                                                                                                                                                                CH was the first place I'd ever needed an online handle so I went with one that combined elements of my parents' last names: gray for Mum, whose born name means gray in Welsh, and elf for dad, whose last name meant elf war back in the dim and distant. Only later did it occur to me that the choice hardly lent itself to food discussions, LOL.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lol well I certainly commend you on the backstory to your handle !

                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. Yes it is rude but in today's culture of "It is All About Me" I am not surprised. It comes from parents who tell their children "just be yourself." These are also the people who ignore requests for RSVPs to invitations, don't write thank you notes and a plethora of other social indiscretions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                              If you don't RSVP to an invite (where prompted), and get the door slammed in your face, it's what you deserve, and you ought to take it with a smile.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              You have become an unannounced guest, and ought to tred lightly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a a recently published Debrett's etiquette book there was a tale of a guest invited for dinner and did not RSVP. When she showed up apologizing for being late and not having responded to the invite, the butler said "don't worry madam, it was our fault for inviting you" and closed the door.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                You are so right!!! Thanks for that post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. I am not a salmon fan. The only salmon I will eat is wild salmon from the Cooper River. But, I have been served salmon in other peoples homes and have eaten what I could and then pushed some around on the plate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was raised to do the polite thing. In HS many years ago I was invited to dinner at a friends house. They were having chicken livers, a great treat for them. I am not a liver eater (except for Foie Gras). I sat there cutting up the livers and swallowing the bits whole, I did not want to taste them. I thanked my friend's mother and said dinner was delicious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                It wasn't that difficult.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Candy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Candy - well you were raised right. that makes such a big difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. That's why I ask a person if there is anything they WON'T eat. I can't count the number of times when I've asked guests beforehand what they eat. Usually, they say, "anything". But when I followed-up with "What don't you eat?", then I get a whole list: seafood, pork, salads, raw vegetables, beef, peas, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. Jeez, cut her some slack-I understand you asked about fish, but maybe she wasn't thinking salmon (which is a strong flavor)- I like salmon, but don't care for either asparagus or rhubarb, & maybe if I had been presented w/ the menu, & someone jumped in & said 'let's get takeout', I'd agree-maybe she's just a friend you shouldn't invite to dinner-don't take it so personally...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: thistle5

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As I stated above, I never said that she deliberately tried to hurt me, but she was recklessly indifferent to whether I was. I'm not taking it personally but offended that she thinks this is acceptable behavior. Hosts spend a little extra money when inviting guests over for dinner and having the expectation that they provide you with an unplanned alternative, foot the bill and make do with perishable items for another night to me is unacceptable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I feel that my fiancé and I Responded politely to her rudeness and she took advantage of it. Take out wasn't our preference, it was for her benefit only!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I can remember the days when my husband's large family used to irritate me. Not about cooking but a little bit of this and that. Not for for me but everyone else. It was always something. But you know what? One day it just stopped bothering me. My best advice to you is just let it go. You'll sleep better at night.:-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You went "above and beyond the call".....once was nice.....twice.tell her to straighten up or..........well, do you really need her around for meals?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. Out right rude. Polite is what happened in my house many years ago. My MIL's cousins (from Canada) were visiting her and came to our house for dinner on a work night. I had little time to make a meal for 8, so fell back on a tried and true menu:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My husband grilled a big piece of (wild) salmon, I made saffron rice, steamed broccoli, and made a big salad (with vinaigrette), sour dough bread. I think dessert was apple crisp and vanilla ice cream. These are all family favorites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I found out later that the cousin hates fish, rice, dressed salad, broccoli, and apples. I guess he only ate bread, butter, and ice cream that night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But, guess what -- nobody noticed! We were all so busy chatting, he was extremely circumspect about pushing his food around on his plate, a good time was had by all. His manners were so impeccable that nobody was embarrassed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Once we all got to know him better, we realized the only thing to serve him was well done meat and potatoes. But that meal became the stuff of family legend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: dkenworthy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then there was the time when we went with our children to visit a lovely cple ( He's British, she's American, but you'd never know it) who we had known for years and spent many a wonderful meal with. For Brunch that Sunday they made Kedgeree. Unfortunately, the two things in this world that I really don't like are whitefish and eggs. I pushed a lot of stuff around getting enough rice to fit on my fork and ate more than my share of cold toast ( another British thing). Fortunately, my wife and children didn't share my aversion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My wife of course noticed, but the morning was lovely and the conversation lively. It wasn't until much later my wife said something to our hostess in a joking manner and she, of course, was then totally apologetic, but we all laughed about it....for many years to come.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. You should just email her the link to this thread and let her decide for herself

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. Hey imogenvats, I posted previously that your friend was rude and you and your fiance we're great hosts. You have every to be annoyed. But who hasn't had a friend that you've been annoyed with/ angry at? Doesn't mean you don't get over the event. Next time you want to have dinner together, just meet at a restaurant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Bkeats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                True & she has been a beautiful friend up until this point. I've never seen her behave so badly!!! I guess I'm having such a hard time stomaching what happened because I would never behave the way she did, with anyone! Being difficult not just with one thing but 3 things on the menu!!! Furthermore Another thing that I haven't mentioned up until this point because it's a side issue is that on the night my sister was involved in a car accident and I was getting quite anxious and stressed because I couldn't get in contact with her. My friend just laughed at me and then critised dessert asking why i use chemicals eg artificial sweetener instead of sugar....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I know if if the tables were turned I would have asked if she was ok and given her a hug. Really was just the icing on the cake for me. She really just was an A Grade pest that night. I really am not one to hang people for one silly mistake I just feel I'm making to many excuses for her so not sure I want to see her again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Life is too short to play games, I've found.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Wow. So with that bit more info, I see that your friend is very self centered. Maybe you're right to move on. If she is a real friend, she will notice your absence and will reach out to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope your sis is fine. Wish you the best.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Bkeats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks lovely, and yes she is fine thankfully :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'd cuss her out (politely if that's you're style). Then see how she responds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A good friend is apologetic (and probably was also having a bad week/day/month).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A bad friend? well, consider it stress relief to at least give her the opportunity to learn something from your friendship. Be a good friend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Her reaction to your understandable personal distress is horrible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wonder if in fact her behavior has been going down hill for a while and as you said simply made excuses and accepted it. But that night she simply crossed a point of 'no return' with you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Regarding Salmon in general, I absolutely love smoked salmon / lox but, don't really care for other preps such as baked, broiled etc... Bringing it back to topic, I'd politely be able to eat those preps if in this situation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. Perhaps your friend was not being polite in your estimation ,but as she saw it , she was saving you the trouble of cooking a meal she would not appreciate .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I do not always believe being invited for dinner is a favor , sometimes it is a burden to pretend to like foods one does not like .and as i have gotten older i have turned down more dinner invitations as life is too short to eat food you dont care to eat.or waste the calories on unpleasant flavors .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Frankly I was on your side and felt bad for you until I heard your menu. The entire list is full of food that MOST people dont care for at all!!!!If you served that to my family we would think you were playing a bad joke on us and testing us with how far you could go to upset us!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What were you thinking when you put that all in one meal ? No wonder she would not eat the sides - they were worse than the salmon in the view of a lot of people !!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have been lurking on this site for 2 years and never felt the need to comment before , but this post made me respond.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        She should have paid for the takeout but i would have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        been wondering why you would invite me and then serve such food ? Was it a prank? Do you dislike me ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Many people on Chowhound put their culinary skills ahead of the friends desires . I think you put your pride ahead of your friend and perhaps being upset about your sister is the real issue here ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The meal you planned on serving your friend is polarizing .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        She probably will be happy never to be invited again !!!!!! In her mind she did you a favor of not having to cook for her and does not understand why you are upset with her and at the same time feels like she dodged a bullet !!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am sure you meant well and planned foods that you like and can cook well but really this grouping of food is very unappetizing to me and many other people and nearly every one I know would be faking emergencies to leave !!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        '

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        18 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Whereas I would kill for someone to serve me salmon and asparagus. And most people *I* know would love the same thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So perhaps it's a regional thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Faking emergencies to leave? Interesting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Me thinks that saltylady is a meat and potato person. Know plenty of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bkeats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No i am not a meat and potato person . I had so much salmon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              about 10 years ago, i cant stand to look at it anymore . My husband wont allow asparagus in the kitchen as he has bad memories of it when his grandmother was dying and how it affected body odors . And rhubarb is just not interesting except with strawberries in a pie .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I did not mean to upset the apple cart but I really would be upset to be served this meal , If you were my friend you would know my likes and dislikes .I really think the Original poster is upset because her friend was not concerned about her sister who was in the car accident and that colors her feelings about the friends reaction to her meal . I do think the friend was rude in not being sympathetic about her sisters condition .I apologise for going against the crowd here but i really was shocked at the menu . I would probably eat the asparagus and potatoes. and turn down the rest .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ".I apologise for going against the crowd here but i really was shocked at the menu ."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Shocked by a menu of salmon and asparagus??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm trying to imagine a more commonplace meal served in just about any restaurant, much less in private homes. Probably because so many folks DO like it and order it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No one here tends to object to "going against the crowd" because we tend to be opinionated, independent thinkers, but this was a mighty gratuitous attack:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Frankly I was on your side and felt bad for you until I heard your menu. The entire list is full of food that MOST people dont care for at all!!!!If you served that to my family we would think you were playing a bad joke on us and testing us with how far you could go to upset us!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What were you thinking when you put that all in one meal ? No wonder she would not eat the sides - they were worse than the salmon in the view of a lot of people !!!!!!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  oh, you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  steak and potatoes is far more common -- and you know it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm not a big fish eater, but if salmon and asparagus were offered I'd be there in a heart beat!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Okay, I have to edit to add... is this a joke post? Served such food? Dodged a bullet?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I happen to like everything on her menu. The rhubarb in particular would have been a special treat for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I love rhubarb! and fresh asparagus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BUT, i do take the point: there's nothing "safe" about said menu.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Not even mashed potatoes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Chowrin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What's not safe about rice? Although saltylady may have had a traumatic experience in her youth with rice and can no longer eat it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: dmjordan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    must have missed it, thx for noting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: dmjordan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Rice is actually one of the things the health dept warns restaurants about , it can cause food sickness if it sits at room temp too long. I don't know the details, just the rules though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You would have turned down the invite not accepted it and then behaved borishly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "The entire list is full of food that MOST people dont care for at all!!!!I"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No it really isn't. If it was so what! No excuse for being that rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ummm....methinks you are reacting too strongly with regards to the menu chosen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MOST people - emphasis yours - may very well enjoy such a menu, myself included. I love salmon, cook it often and would enjoy seeing how someone else prepares it for company. Asparagus--I can deal with the umm, bodily issues in the privacy of a bathroom. I don't think I've ever had a rhubarb dessert by itself but I would surely like to try one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MOST people - emphasis yours again - wouldn't create a menu for a friend as a joke, or to be "polarizing". Some people might of course, but MOST people wouldn't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MOST people - emphasis yours again - might well be gracious and nibble at the menu offered. I've got a long list of items I do not like and will certainly try to eat a bit of everything offered to me. I'm allergic to one item only and dare not tempt even a bite knowlingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And most importantly, MOST people wouldn't fake an emergency to leave. How utterly rude that would be if later found out by the host/hostess. And Murphy's law being what it is, the host/hostess would almost certainly find out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: saltylady

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Geeze, know wonder you call yourself Saltylady.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You sure can sting an open wound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Maybe I'm a terrible host, but it doesn't occur to me to ask guests about likes and dislikes. I assume they eat most things unless they tell me otherwise. I generally know if they're veggie, obviously. I think it's your responsibility as a guest to inform your host of any dietary preferences.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: greedygirl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's why I always try to ask what my host is planning to cook - well and because I enjoy talking about food - but mostly because I have a few serious food restrictions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: greedygirl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hm, I feel differently. I'd feel awfully presumptuous telling a host "Just an FYI, I hate blue cheese."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But I loved when my partner's mother, the first time she ever invited me over for dinner, asked her son "Just let me know if there's anything she really hates". Now I always ask that if someone comes over or is bringing something--what is one thing you REALLY hate?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. Kinda rude and really immature.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Accepting a dinner invitation means you might be served food that isn't your favorite. Obviously I'm not talking about abandoning lifestyle/moral/health food choices to appease your host but come on. Ask for a tiny piece and do your best to choke it down. Getting takeout is ridiculous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            7 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: LeoLioness

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They are my thoughts exactly! I'm lucky in that I eat most things. I have dislikes like everyone else eg bacon, ham and I'm not a big fan of eggs either but they are not soooo bad that I wouldn't be able to stomach them, they are just foods that I would never opt for myself. Really think that too many adults act like absolute babies! Truth is that if you eat a food 7 times you will develop the taste buds for it and if you not very experimental with food and have such strict preferences then speak up or stay home!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is that a fact re tastebuds?! I've tried blue cheese 4 times and it has made me gag all 4 times. I'd give it a few more gos if that would cure my revulsion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ohmyyum

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've certainly tried blue cheese more than 7 times in my life (and yes, I've had "a good one") and it always makes me want to spit. There are not many flavors I'm adverse to and I'm always trying new/different preparations of things I think I don't care for just to see if it's still true, but that 7 times-is-a-charm theory doesn't work for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ohmyyum

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nope, not a fact. I like blue cheese and many other things that some do not like. The last thing someone could say about me that I'm not adventurous. But try as I might, I cannot train myself to like bananas. And have I ever tried! Such as eating a piece of banana every day for months on end. And repeating said experiment every so many years. No dice. They still make me gag. There are many things I have taught myself to like, but for some people, there are going to some things they never, ever will develop a taste for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MelMM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MelMM, we are soul brothers/sisters! I so WANT to love bananas for their portability and nutritional value but I just can't do it. My little niece actually thinks I am afraid of them, because I loathe them so much. The only way I can bring myself to eat them is deepfried, preferably with ice cream : -).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've also spent decades trying to like anything livery. The latest attempt was ankimo -- had it a bunch of different high end preps and just wanted to emulate Tom Hanks in Big every time. I think I've officially given up on both.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One joy of becoming an adult: I can refuse liver forevermore. I remember Mom making me sit at the table until I ate the cold, congealed liver. I was surreptitiously feeding it to the cat under the table.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What's odd is, I love plantains. But a banana, I just can't do it. I can mix them in a smoothie with other stronger flavor fruits to cover the flavor. But peel and eat? Nope. And yes, it's the portability that makes me keep trying.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. You wouldn't let the host order Pizza if your child didn't like what they were served and they are still learning, so why would anyone think it's acceptable for an adult to do so?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  People forget that being invited into someone's home is all about sharing their food and not ordering what you like as in a restaurant!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, adults aren't children, so that's a factor. Frankly, if I'd been invited for dinner and that was the menu and someone offered to buy takeout and the actual cooking process hasn't started, yeah, I'd jump all over that offer. It's pretty hard to eat around your dislikes when you're serving 3 things I hate. Recently, a friend had a group dinner and served mushroom pizza and fennel salad. I discreetly picked off the mushrooms and ate a small amount of fennel- there were other things to eat. My point is that it just is what it is. Your friend didn't like what you planned to serve. So don't invite her over for dinner again. It's not the end of the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Hobbert

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I never said it was the end of the world Hobbert. I'm just replying to posts and sharing my thoughts. My "friend won't be invited to my place again for dinner. Think your contradicting yourself when you say you hate mushrooms and fennel but you picked off the mushrooms on the pizza ate abit of the fennel and made do with the rest. You didn't insult your host by letting them know you hated those food items. I had started cooking and I also had rice and roasted pumpkin plus a parsley relish as well as custard to go with dessert. She could have made do....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Imogen, it's a pity you're far away and it's too late for this menu -- I'd have been happy to eat her portion - your menu sounds really, really lovely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: imogenvats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 things to reply to here. First, no, I'm not contradicting myself. I'm illustrating my point. Salmon is not something you can eat around if you don't care for it. Neither is asparagus. Both are one ingredient items. I suppose she could have eaten the pie crust. My example of the pizza is that it's made of many ingredients and I can easily pick out one. Second, from you earlier posts it was not clear to me that you'd started the cooking process and were serving 6 different items. I suppose she could have made do. I wonder if she would have if your fiancé hasn't offered takeout. She'd said she'd try the salmon, no? I suppose we'll never know what she would have eaten.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. I am curious, have you had any follow up with your guest? Has it come up in conversation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. I think she was rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One of my favorite stories about being invited to a friends house for dinner is true....I swear.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Years ago we were invited to a friends house on a very hot July night. Earlier that day myself and the other woman got a phone call from our friend asking if we would wear panty hose or slacks so our legs wouldn't perspire on her dining room chairs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not the men, just the women.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Annief123

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          OMG! That's just unbelievable. I wiould have worn very short shorts or a mini-skirt - with bare legs - just to make a point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: greedygirl

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Too funny.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wish I had the guts.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Not me, I am the quintessential rule follower

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Annief123

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and I'd have just mentioned that perhaps this would all be better if rescheduled to a more-temperate evening and cancelled.