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Mark Bittman's VB6

mariacarmen Jul 10, 2013 10:53 AM

Hesitant to post this, because I'm only on my 4th day trying this. And I haven't bought the book yet, but I will. I thought I'd just start this thread to see if anyone else is trying the concept out (vegan before 6 p.m., more veggies, cut out as much processed food as possible, eat what you like in the evenings, within reason). I've been eating a lot of fruit, some veggies (definitely need to increase that) and a bit of grains during the day. i also usually eat a veg and/or salad with dinner, whatever that may be.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/...

Anyone else?

  1. c
    Cajohn Aug 17, 2013 05:29 PM

    I have just started this diet and it seems doabel .i will let you know what is happening.

    1. weezieduzzit Aug 6, 2013 07:44 PM

      I highly recommend reading Why We Get Fat (and what to do about it) by Gary Taubes. You need to understand what insulin does, how your body stores fat and what makes your body willing to loose fat to really be successful long term. The more research I do and the more I understand it the easier it is and the pounds keep falling off. I'm going to end up leaner than when I gained the weight at this rate.

      I, personally, would be concerned about a vegan breakfast not being muscle sparing. No one wants to be skinny fat. Raising your insulin first thing in the morning, putting your body into fat storage mode, by eating lots of carbs early makes no sense to me at all.

      17 Replies
      1. re: weezieduzzit
        c
        Cajohn Aug 17, 2013 05:43 PM

        Unless you're bedridden it's good to eat carbs in the morning. We need fuel and they come from carbs. By 6 pm you're ready to settle down for the evening maybe watch some tv so you don't need much carbs as you won't be using much energyi think it makes sense unless you work night shift..

        1. re: Cajohn
          mcf Aug 18, 2013 05:56 AM

          We don't "need" carbs for anything, they are completly non essential in human nutrition. That myth comes from a misunderstanding about the brain's need for glucose, which is converted from protein in a slower steadier rate than carbs.

          Eating carbs in the morning has been proven to lead to higher insulinemia and greater hunger and food intake for the rest of the day, and is associated with higher rates of obesity.

          1. re: mcf
            f
            fara Aug 18, 2013 04:08 PM

            No offense, but could you provide the study?

            1. re: fara
              mcf Aug 18, 2013 05:33 PM

              If you mean about glycemic breakfasts and appetite, here's one of those I recall: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10049982

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14595085

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17610996

              Protein and fat are very low GI; and since glycemia is always highest in the a.m. due to diurnal cortisol rhythm, the idea you need to push carbs into your brain to get going is spurious.

              If you mean a study about essentiality of carbs:

              http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/...

              Or look up the no carb, meat and fish only diet experiment on this arctic explorer and compatriots: Vilhjalmur Stefansson

            2. re: mcf
              pikawicca Aug 18, 2013 05:46 PM

              Garbage science at work here.

              1. re: pikawicca
                mcf Aug 19, 2013 06:35 AM

                Thanks for such a carefully thought out, analytical commentary.

                it's this simple; while non starchy, high fiber and nutrient dense per calories carbs (veggies, mostly) are a very useful and enjoyable part of my diet (in huge quantities) there is no essentiality to them for health and survival. That's not an argument against eating them, just a biological fact.

                But without fat and protein, you are ill and will die.

                1. re: mcf
                  pikawicca Aug 19, 2013 07:04 AM

                  You have evidently never heard of ailments such as scurvy.

                  1. re: pikawicca
                    mcf Aug 19, 2013 07:09 AM

                    Not an issue when fresh meat is eaten. That's why meat only dieters don't develop it.

                    1. re: pikawicca
                      hotoynoodle Aug 19, 2013 07:13 AM

                      lol, well, i certainly have, but not being a 17th-century seafarer, i don't worry about it.

                      fresh meat, especially liver and oysters, contains adequate vitamin c to prevent scurvy even in the most extreme conditions.

                      http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_an...

                      "This pattern of fresh meat preventing scurvy would be a consistent one in Arctic exploration. It defied the common understanding of scurvy as a deficiency in vegetable matter. Somehow men could live for years on a meat-only diet and remain healthy, provided that the meat was fresh.

                      This is a good example of how the very ubiquity of vitamin C made it hard to identify. Though scurvy was always associated with a lack of greens, fresh meat contains adequate amounts of vitamin C, with particularly high concentrations in the organ meats that explorers considered a delicacy. Eat a bear liver every few weeks and scurvy will be the least of your problems."

                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                        mcf Aug 19, 2013 08:12 AM

                        Right, seafarers ate dried, preserved meat, so needed supplementation. So if you ever go on a long sea voyage with only dried, salted meat, take some C with you.

                        1. re: mcf
                          hotoynoodle Aug 19, 2013 08:16 AM

                          there was also a long span of time where the medical connection that the juice needed to be fresh was lost. for years, british sailors were bringing barrels of juice, instead of fruits, and getting scurvy anyway.

                2. re: mcf
                  c
                  Cajohn Aug 19, 2013 12:23 AM

                  How do you explain the fact that most medicines are made from herbs spices or vegetables?

                  1. re: Cajohn
                    mcf Aug 19, 2013 06:33 AM

                    That's a total non sequitir.

                    1. re: Cajohn
                      hotoynoodle Aug 19, 2013 06:58 AM

                      it's also 19th century thinking. scientists now isolate particular chemicals in plants and recreate them artificially.

                      when is the last time your doctor gave you some angelica atropurpurea to smoke for your cold?

                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                        mcf Aug 19, 2013 07:15 AM

                        It also has no bearing on the nutrition question about essentiality of carbohydrates in the diet, which is a myth that folks with a personal philosophy about food promote without having any support from objective science or real world clinical outcomes.

                  2. re: Cajohn
                    hotoynoodle Aug 19, 2013 07:04 AM

                    most americans drive to work and then go sit at a desk all day. why on earth do they need a giant hit of glucose upon waking? the slow and steady release of energy from proteins and fats would be more suited to this and more sating in the long run.

                    even "back in the day", when most americans were farm workers, a big pile of protein (eggs, meat, buttermilk) was the focus of breakfast.

                    fluffy muffins and doughy bagels the size of a baby's head, sticks and twig-type cereal with added sugars to be palatable, even yogurt, (many of which now have more added sugar than kid's cereal) are like having dessert for breakfast. it's a terrible start to the day.

                    1. re: hotoynoodle
                      mcf Aug 19, 2013 07:11 AM

                      Not only that, we have much larger fruits, bred to have much higher sugar content than wild fruits naturally do, and they're available all year long.

                      A terrible meal at any time of day.

                3. a
                  acssss Jul 30, 2013 01:45 PM

                  First of all, good luck MC with the diet!
                  I don't have this book but due to a very strict father I start out my day very similar to what you describe... by eating my vegetables first - and only after about a pound of veggies a day (usually green beans or peas), do I eat other things I enjoy. So I eat everything (fruits, grains, pasta, meat), but the fattening stuff in much lesser quantities due to me being already full on my vegetables.
                  This is a way of life for me, not a one time diet - and I've lived like this my entire life and have never needed to try and lose weight. We are creatures of habit and luckily for me this particular one paid off. Don't get me wrong, I hated him for making me - and I mean making me - eat my vegetables before anything else. I had my first hamburger at MCD's at age 16 (and then understood why he never let us eat them) and have never eaten a twinkie in my life... but it created a very nice, healthy habit that has endured until now... and I believe we are the same age.

                  I hope you are successful!

                  6 Replies
                  1. re: acssss
                    hotoynoodle Jul 30, 2013 01:56 PM

                    you eat a pound of peas?

                    1. re: hotoynoodle
                      a
                      acssss Jul 30, 2013 02:04 PM

                      ...or green beans, or a mix of vegetables.
                      It's not really all that much - about two bowls full (and actually the daily requirement)...
                      I eat it in two or three sittings, but by evening with my stomach full I get to the other stuff and eat much less of it :-)

                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                        mcf Jul 30, 2013 02:05 PM

                        If fresh and raw, this is the breakdown: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2520/2

                        So, 368 calories, 64 gms carbs, 32 gms protein.

                        Cooked and eaten with the pod: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/v...

                      2. re: acssss
                        mariacarmen Jul 31, 2013 12:50 AM

                        Thanks acssss! Trying to make a good positive change that reasonably works for me. Thx for the story, and the encouragement.

                        1. re: mariacarmen
                          a
                          acssss Jul 31, 2013 10:15 AM

                          BTW... not to harp too much on the issue, but just remember that old habits are difficult to break - so it will be weird at first - but once you get used to this lifestyle, you will not even think twice about it and you won't even notice that you ate differently in the past.
                          You'll lose so much weight and you'll feel amazing to boot!
                          My fingers are crossed :-)

                          1. re: acssss
                            mariacarmen Jul 31, 2013 11:35 PM

                            sniff.... i miss bacon....
                            just kidding. i can have it any night i want!
                            i agree - i think it'll become second nature to be a part-time vegan. very part-time. but better than nothing.

                      3. The Dairy Queen Jul 30, 2013 03:37 AM

                        So, has anyone bought or cooked from Bittman's book yet? Cookbook fanatic that I am...just curious.

                        ~TDQ

                        3 Replies
                        1. re: The Dairy Queen
                          mariacarmen Jul 30, 2013 09:27 AM

                          i bought it but haven't cooked from it yet. i'm reading it slowly.

                          1. re: The Dairy Queen
                            pikawicca Jul 30, 2013 12:08 PM

                            I've only made a few recipes so far, but I'd say they were a little off.

                            The Eggplant Un-Parmesan recipe is needlessly complicated. I just chopped the eggplant and threw it in a saucepan with a little olive oil. When it was browned, I added some chopped garlic and red pepper flakes. Added a large chopped tomato and a bit of water, covered and simmered for 30 minutes or so. Seasoned with S&P and tossed in some chopped basil. Delicious -- no need to turn the oven on and all the hoo-haw Bittman advises.

                            As for the cooked escarole, no way am I going to cook it in a big pot of boiling water and lose all that flavor. Sauteed a sliced onion in olive oil in a large saucepan, then added 1 head of chopped escarole, along with the water clinging to it. Covered and cooked until tender, then removed the cover to let the water evaporate. Added about 1 T. of really good vinegar. this was also great.

                            Sticks and Stones -- added fennel and radishes and proceeded pretty much as direct. Should not have added the additional 1 T. olive oil, as there was plenty of fat to go around.

                            All three dishes were worth doing again. I'm using local produce and free-range chicken and meat, and these simple recipes let the flavors of the ingredients shine through.

                            Based on my experience so far, I'd advise a little skepticism and the exercise of common sense when approaching these recipes.

                            I'm making the Chickpea Ratatouille tonight, but subbing whole wheat pasta for the chickpeas, and adding some feta.

                            1. re: pikawicca
                              The Dairy Queen Jul 31, 2013 03:42 AM

                              So strange that he would have you boil the escarole. Thanks for your insights pika.

                              ~TDQ

                          2. mariacarmen Jul 28, 2013 11:05 PM

                            starting off my 3rd week tomorrow and i'm down 5 lbs. now, granted, these 5 were a pretty recent gain so they were bound to come off pretty quickly, but i'm thrilled nonetheless. i never feel hungry on this. i'm not being 100% strict, but it seems to be working.

                            made some tabouleh for lunches this week. purchased some black lentils and brown jasmine rice. i'll make something with one of those tomorrow night for a change-up in lunch, and add chopped kale to it.

                            i got the book, by the way, and am slowly going through it.

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: mariacarmen
                              t
                              Ttrockwood Jul 29, 2013 05:53 PM

                              Wow! Congrats on your progress!! I had a great lentil salad at lunch the other day- was approx 1/2c lentils with chopped cucumbers, bell pepper, cherry tomatoes, a few kalamata olives, parsley, and a basalmic vinegrette that was served on mixed greens and had sliced almonds sprinkle ontop. It was such a good combo!

                              1. re: Ttrockwood
                                mariacarmen Jul 29, 2013 11:41 PM

                                thanks! that sounds really great. ooh i will add some kalamatas to my tabouleh!

                              2. re: mariacarmen
                                mcel215 Jul 30, 2013 02:53 AM

                                Congrats maria. :)

                                www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                              3. mcel215 Jul 19, 2013 05:58 PM

                                I've been eating less meat/fish for a couple of years now. I've lost 50lbs and am trying to maintain.

                                I'm going to check out VB6 over the weekend and am very interested in reading the book/diet.

                                I eat lots of veggies/fruit all day long, but am stumped about how to changeover my breakfast. I do 1/2 cup of Kashi cereal, with 1/2 cup of frozen fruit and 1/2 cup of skim milk every morning.

                                Any breakfast suggestions? I don't like to do meal replacements with smoothies (need to eat something I guess). Should I just replace my skim milk with almond or soy?

                                Thanks and this is a great thread, thanks MC.

                                www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                13 Replies
                                1. re: mcel215
                                  t
                                  Ttrockwood Jul 19, 2013 06:32 PM

                                  Have you tried almond milk before? It would be easiest to swap the milk you use. Try almond breeze unsweetened, or there is a new almond milk plus protein (vegan pea protein 5g per serving) that is good. Try a few different brands, to find one you like best

                                  1. re: Ttrockwood
                                    mcel215 Jul 19, 2013 06:59 PM

                                    Thanks Tb,

                                    I will give the almond milk a try.

                                    www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                  2. re: mcel215
                                    f
                                    fara Jul 19, 2013 07:23 PM

                                    make your own almond milk if you have time, it tastes better. also if you are willing to eat something other than cereal, I personally really like almond or peanut butter in the morning with whole grain bread. you can have your fruit on the side.

                                    1. re: fara
                                      mcel215 Jul 20, 2013 05:58 PM

                                      Thanks fara, but I don't have the time to make my own almond milk. I will check out a couple of brands though.

                                      I didn't even think of switching out with a slice of whole grain bread/toast and almond butter. I can switch off between my cereal in the morning.

                                      www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                      1. re: mcel215
                                        f
                                        fara Jul 20, 2013 06:11 PM

                                        if you ever feel like making the almond milk, here are the steps:
                                        1) add 1 cup almonds to blender
                                        2) add 3 cups water to blender
                                        3) blend
                                        4) drain through cheesecloth
                                        5) drink

                                        1. re: fara
                                          mcel215 Jul 21, 2013 03:11 AM

                                          Thanks fara, does sound very simple indeed! :)

                                          www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                    2. re: mcel215
                                      mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 08:51 PM

                                      wow- 50 lbs - that's fantastic mcel215! i have a good 30 i'd like to lose.

                                      looks like Ttrockwood had your answer. i'm kinda just doing fruit for breakfast so far.

                                      1. re: mariacarmen
                                        mcel215 Jul 20, 2013 06:03 PM

                                        Hi Maria,

                                        Thanks, I have worked hard at it, and it's tough to maintain.
                                        But, I'm hanging in there. I normally eat all of the fruit/veggies I want, but measure out carbs. I only allow myself 1/2 cup of rice, cereal, etc. And I only eat meat/fish at dinner, and cut that down to about 1/2 inch slice of a chicken breast per meal. It means, if you buy a large chicken breast half, then I grill it and cut in into thirds or fourths.

                                        And BTW, I get too hungry with just fruit for breakfast, but I do eat fruit with my breakfast and at midmorning snack. It sounds like you are off to a great start.

                                        I love Bittman, think he's a real smart guy and wonderful chef.

                                        www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                        1. re: mcel215
                                          mcf Jul 21, 2013 07:02 AM

                                          Fruits and veggies are carbs, too. Congrats on your results.

                                          1. re: mcf
                                            mcel215 Jul 23, 2013 05:18 PM

                                            I just think that fruit/vegetable carbs are not as dangerous (to me, anyway), than rice or pasta, cereal and bread. :)

                                            I've been sort of following weight watchers, and most of the veggies and fruits are free foods.

                                            I kind of mishmashed my own diet plan for the most part though. And thanks for the compliment.

                                            www.saffron215.blogspot.com

                                            1. re: mcel215
                                              mariacarmen Jul 23, 2013 09:42 PM

                                              i think a combo of this and WW would be excellent. veg and fruits, reasonable amounts of fat and protein, less simple carbs, less processed foods, and portion control whenever you can. makes the most sense to me.

                                              1. re: mcel215
                                                k
                                                Kalivs Jul 29, 2013 01:56 AM

                                                I think that if you are doing the WW diet just to loose weight, then fruit and veggies as free foods are fine. However, if you have a specific reason to limit carbohydrates in your diet,then you will have to count fruits and veggies. Sure, they are probably better for you than simple carbs. But, in the end sugar is sugar.

                                                I was a vegetarian before I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. I found that when I started eating meat my blood sugar stablized and my H1AC has been hovering around 6 ever since.

                                        2. re: mcel215
                                          c
                                          Cajohn Aug 17, 2013 05:37 PM

                                          Try oat milk.its got betaclucan to lower cholesterol too. I make my own.

                                        3. rmarisco Jul 19, 2013 09:16 AM

                                          i did this for awhile (um..didn't know bittman had cornered the market - i should have gotten a publicist i guess). i did raw vegan in the AM, vegan or vegetarian for lunch, and whatever (healthy) for dinner. I found I was protein loading at dinner! started feeling a bit manic, and taking the biggest pieces of whatever meat we might be having. Plus, if I had made a grain for dinner I was loading on that too. In other words, something in my brain was telling me i was missing out and needed to overload in the evening. Personally, it didn't work for me.

                                          Maybe it should be the other way around: heavy protein in the AM, followed by vegetarian throughout the rest of the day so as not to weigh a person down!

                                          The old adage was "eat like a king at breakfast, a prince at lunch, and a pauper at dinner."

                                          29 Replies
                                          1. re: rmarisco
                                            mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 01:17 PM

                                            hmmm... i haven't found that problem yet... in fact at night if i eat out i have actually ordered some veg items. eating in is a different story, because of my boyfriend - he must have meat - but i'm not finding i'm eating more meat.

                                            however, i'm eating too many carbs so far, it think - mostly in the form of couscous - during the day. i know i should be able to figure this out myself, but i'm waiting for the book to arrive.

                                            i haven't lost anything as yet, so i'm not completely sold....

                                            it's really difficult for me to eat like a pauper at dinner. food is entertainment and social - and therein probably lies the problem.

                                            thanks for your feedback!

                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                              t
                                              Ttrockwood Jul 19, 2013 06:55 PM

                                              Couscous is actually small pasta and not a whole grain..... For filling breakfast options a temeph and veggies saute is a high protein choice, an apple with nut butter (1tb almond butter) and pc of toast, oatmeal with chia seeds and berries, green smoothies.
                                              The blog links i had posted above previously have some great low/no grain recipes.
                                              The key to the weight loss aspect is really including as many vegetables as possible in each meal

                                              1. re: Ttrockwood
                                                L.Nightshade Jul 19, 2013 07:38 PM

                                                I think that most of us know that couscous is a pasta, and I don't see where mc claimed otherwise. But it can be made with whole wheat, and therefore, as acceptably whole grain as the piece of toast to which you refer.

                                                I have to say that I can't imagine doing a tempeh and veg sauté at 5 am. Not only because of the time constraint, but because it does not appeal at that hour. I'm lucky to get in a coffee with almond milk!

                                                1. re: L.Nightshade
                                                  mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 08:45 PM

                                                  yeah veggies do not sound good in the a.m. but maybe i can try a savory oatmeal.... although i love fruit, so i'm fine with not having protein that one meal.

                                                  1. re: L.Nightshade
                                                    mcf Jul 20, 2013 10:12 AM

                                                    cous cous is possibly the single most processed food on the market, though. A grain is not a whole grain if it's been ground up.

                                                    1. re: L.Nightshade
                                                      pikawicca Jul 29, 2013 05:10 AM

                                                      Couscous is most definitely NOT pasta. Don't know why that idea has gotten so much traction.
                                                      http://www.cliffordawright.com/caw/fo...

                                                      1. re: pikawicca
                                                        hotoynoodle Jul 29, 2013 06:20 AM

                                                        both are made from semolina. they are not apples and oranges.

                                                        1. re: pikawicca
                                                          mcf Jul 29, 2013 06:36 AM

                                                          Cous cous is pre cooked refined wheat.

                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                            pikawicca Jul 29, 2013 08:41 AM

                                                            Yes, but that doesn't make it pasta.

                                                            1. re: pikawicca
                                                              mcf Jul 29, 2013 09:01 AM

                                                              It's a very minor distinction: http://www.drgourmet.com/ingredients/...

                                                              1. re: mcf
                                                                pikawicca Jul 29, 2013 09:44 AM

                                                                If you had ever seen couscous being made in the traditional manner, you would not think so.

                                                                1. re: pikawicca
                                                                  hotoynoodle Jul 29, 2013 10:56 AM

                                                                  the 1st sentence in your linked story:

                                                                  "Often thought of as a grain, such as bulgur wheat, couscous is actually processed much like pasta."

                                                                  and slightly further in:

                                                                  "The ingredients in couscous are essentially that of pasta and the nutritional content (by weight) is similar. "

                                                                  they are both made from semolina wheat while cous cous has additional flour added.

                                                                  1. re: pikawicca
                                                                    mcf Jul 29, 2013 02:30 PM

                                                                    I'm addressing the composition of it. In the package it reminds me of a teensy version of pastina.

                                                                    1. re: mcf
                                                                      pikawicca Jul 29, 2013 02:31 PM

                                                                      I wasn't.

                                                                      1. re: pikawicca
                                                                        mcf Jul 29, 2013 04:07 PM

                                                                        Then why did you say it's not a pasta? That's a composition/nutrition issue. We're not talking about what dishes you make with it. It's uber refined wheat flour.

                                                        2. re: Ttrockwood
                                                          mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 08:39 PM

                                                          well i did know that, but i have to admit what i have at home right now isn't whole wheat, as L.Nightshade mentions, so i do need to get some. i also have some bulgher i haven't played around with yet. this looks really good: http://jamandidleness.com/2012/09/18/...

                                                          right now i have fruit for bfast. i'd really love toast and butter, but peanut butter/almond butter will have to do.

                                                          i've had a few tofu salad lunches, which i really like.

                                                          i do think you're absolutely right about the veggie thing being key for weight loss. need to be better about that.

                                                          to the point mcf makes below, tonight, coming home from the gym starving after work, the BF had made us each two broiled chicken thighs, spanish rice with avocado slices and a big green salad. i ate one piece of chicken with the rest of it. so i didn't really overeat as a result of my non-protein/rather carby day. (lunch was couscous and some veg for a cold salad). but i really do think i'm eating less meat even when i don't "have" to. at least so far.

                                                          1. re: mariacarmen
                                                            mcf Jul 20, 2013 10:16 AM

                                                            The point I made was from various studies of groups. There will always be individuals at variance. Most folks crave more carbs after eating mostly carbs, too, unfortunately.

                                                            Still, one would be wise to eat veggies in place of fruits more, as you say. One comes with a high sugar load, the other doesn't. They're not equivalent the way they're usually spoken about as "eat more fruits and veggies."

                                                            I treat fruit like any other dessert food, frex, but will eat veggies and dinner leftovers in the a.m. on occasions when I want a breakfast.

                                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                                              t
                                                              Ttrockwood Jul 20, 2013 07:40 PM

                                                              I made this salad last week for lunches and loved it! Made on sunday, i added edamame and had some carrots with lowfat hummus for my lunches-
                                                              http://ohsheglows.com/recipage/?recipe_id=6050310
                                                              Another great veggie filled salad i make:
                                                              http://ohsheglows.com/recipage/?recip...
                                                              But i refuse to turn on my oven and added a packet of "the good bean" dry roasted chickpeas instead of making my own.... I served this on ontop of a big handful of mixed greens

                                                        3. re: rmarisco
                                                          mcf Jul 19, 2013 02:22 PM

                                                          There are studies demonstrating that eating carby/lower protein in the a.m. (if that's what's happening here), that folks are hungrier and load up on more food at subsequent meals.

                                                          Since blood sugar and insulin response are highest in the morning, lowest at night, the diurnal pattern suggested by Bittman is a recipe for development of metabolic syndrome.

                                                          1. re: mcf
                                                            mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 02:34 PM

                                                            it's supposed to be more plants - veggies and fruits (which i know also contain carbs) - and whole grains, and no processed foods and avoid simple carbs, i believe, during the day. after six you're free to indulge in what you like, but that doesn't mean you have to overeat, or overeat protein.

                                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                                              mcf Jul 19, 2013 05:47 PM

                                                              I didn't say you're "supposed" to, but that folks get hungrier sooner and eat more calories after non protein breakfasts. Plant foods tend to get too many calories from carbs for me, with precious little protein per calorie, so no go for me.

                                                              I need solid, bioavailable protein at every meal and snack. If I were going with plant foods, I'd only eat soybeans, tempeh before 6 pm, and that gets old fast. And it made me very, very screwed up metabolically when I was eating virtually all plant foods or even when vegetarian.

                                                            2. re: mcf
                                                              hotoynoodle Jul 29, 2013 04:49 AM

                                                              whenever i tried starting my day with kashi, yogurt and fruit (healthy, right?), i'd be ravenous within a coupe of hours, and yes, "starving" all day.

                                                              when my 1st meal is a goodly serving of protein i don't even think about eating again for many hours.

                                                              i think it's great if people are ditching processed foods and eating more vegetables, but grains and fruit for breakfast are not all that sating.

                                                              1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                mcf Jul 29, 2013 06:37 AM

                                                                Mirrors my experience, too. And in studies, that's what happens. Folks get hungry earlier and choose to eat more at later meals in the day.

                                                                1. re: mcf
                                                                  hotoynoodle Jul 29, 2013 06:48 AM

                                                                  yeah, i had a few too many of those "trying the same thing and expecting different results" experiments for my oh-so-smart self, and finally got a clue.

                                                                2. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                  The Dairy Queen Jul 30, 2013 03:31 AM

                                                                  hotoynoodle, I had the same experience with breakfast, but I found that if I added a tablespoon or so of walnuts or almonds to my yogurt and fruit, I could last through the morning. I don't know if it's the fat or the protein, but that TBSP of walnuts made all the difference in the world to me.

                                                                  ~TDQ

                                                                  1. re: The Dairy Queen
                                                                    hotoynoodle Jul 30, 2013 05:41 AM

                                                                    i know other people who claim that nuts provide satiety but they don't for me. it's a lot of fat cals for only a handful that does nothing.

                                                                    through trial and much error, i do much better with a breakfast of protein and fats.

                                                                    curious too about why people are taking diet advice from bittman? as much as i admire his principles, he is ALWAYS wanting/needing to lose weight.

                                                                    1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                      The Dairy Queen Jul 30, 2013 06:28 AM

                                                                      It's good to know what works for you. I've always needed a protein-heavy breakfast myself, but I was pretty surprised when I found the perfect balance of a 7 oz lowfat fage+half cup or cup of berries+TBSP walnuts.

                                                                      When I don't do the yogurt/fruit/walnuts thing, my next breakfast choices is eggs loaded up with lots of veggies and maybe a slice or half slice of whole wheat toast.

                                                                      (Sorry, I know the above two choices aren't vegan, though they are vegetarian, at least.)

                                                                      Or a tofu/fruit smoothie, usually with a little healthy fat (ie., my prescribed amount of healthy fats per WW) stirred in.

                                                                      I think it's great if people lose weight following Bittman's practices (didn't Batali also lose some weight that way?) but, really, I wonder if it's just a result of eating more mindfully.

                                                                      There's a hilarious rant from Courtney Love that's about 20 years old now called something along the lines of "Don't eat effing cheese." Ah, here it is. Pretty good guestimate on my part, it's from 1993: http://www.cuisinenet.com/glossary/co...

                                                                      (P.S. the entire rant is incredibly profane and un-PC, but that's just Courtney, I think. Consider yourself warned...)

                                                                      ~TDQ

                                                                  2. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                    f
                                                                    fara Aug 1, 2013 02:07 PM

                                                                    Neither is breakfast in general. I used to think a large bkfast was going to tide me over. Turns out a really small amount of yoghurt, nuts, a little honey and caffe latte do just fine until lunch when I get to eat the things I really want instead I'd dried out whole wheat english. Breakfast: not the most important meal of the day

                                                                    1. re: fara
                                                                      hotoynoodle Aug 1, 2013 02:51 PM

                                                                      yes, most days i eat twice -- around 11ish and then again around 5-6ish.

                                                                      first meal is usually eggs though, cuz i like them and they are fast.

                                                              2. t
                                                                Ttrockwood Jul 13, 2013 06:55 PM

                                                                As a vegan i am a huge supporter of any plan that has people eating more vegan meals. Bittman's book "how to cook everything vegetarian" is a kitchen essential- now an app for iphone too, and vegan subs listed. I also have loved every recipe i have made from
                                                                http://ohsheglows.com/
                                                                Also recommend happy herbivore cookbooks and her site's recipes:
                                                                http://happyherbivore.com/recipes/
                                                                I hope that you are able to enjoy how delicious a vegan lifestyle can be, and your body will thank you.

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: Ttrockwood
                                                                  mariacarmen Jul 13, 2013 11:23 PM

                                                                  thanks for those links, Ttrockwood. i am unabashedly a carnivore, but i am happy to incorporate some veganism into my life. i feel it certainly can't hurt and it can definitely help. thanks again for the info.

                                                                2. linguafood Jul 11, 2013 02:01 PM

                                                                  I don't understand why the time of day matters in what you consume.

                                                                  If his mere goal is to eat less meat or animal products, it's totally irrelevant. But then he's doing this to lose weight.

                                                                  I guess I know too many overweight vegans to ever even consider it. Plus I like my meat & fish.

                                                                  Be interesting to hear if this "works" for you -- whatever your goal may be....

                                                                  6 Replies
                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                    mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 02:49 PM

                                                                    i responded above. time of day doesn't matter at all. it's just easier for some - like me - being at work all day and only having to feed myself.

                                                                    1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                      linguafood Jul 11, 2013 03:41 PM

                                                                      Gotcha. What exactly is your goal with this diet? Are you still in WW as well?

                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                        mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 03:48 PM

                                                                        oh lingua, you know me, the goal is always losing some weight. can't get motivated to back to WW strictly, so i'm trying this. i think if i do this and maintain portion control, i can kick-start this whole thing. i am working out again, too, but i need to increase that. we'll see. you know i'm a meat-eater at heart.

                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                          linguafood Jul 11, 2013 04:16 PM

                                                                          Maybe you should try low(er)-carbing, or have you tried it before (sorry if I can't remember, my brains are mush today)?

                                                                          I've been able to keep my weight down with that "method", which speaks to me as a meat, fish, and dairy lover. I eat more vegetables than I did when I had starchy sides, given that I generally replace the usual rice, pasta or potato side with another veggie or salad.

                                                                          But I also know that this doesn't work for everyone. As long as you manage to get enough protein in, you should be fine.

                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                            mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 04:24 PM

                                                                            i tried low carbing - very low carbing - and it did not do one thing for me. didn't lose an ounce. and i was very strict about it. i know you've had success without being fanatic.

                                                                            i find when i do a combo of portion control and some low-ish carbing it works for me. and exercise of course. i think this V6 thing for me will just make me aware of overeating during the day.

                                                                            and i have no doubt i'll squeeze in enough protein!

                                                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                              The Dairy Queen Jul 30, 2013 03:25 AM

                                                                              mariacarmen, have you tried following simply filling technique (which used to be called core) on weight watchers? I"ve had great success with it. It's basically lean proteins and nonfat dairy, whole grains, and, of course, lots of produce. (WW calls these power foods.)

                                                                              http://www3.weightwatchers.com/util/a...

                                                                              It's not "low carb" but I've heard people call it "low carb" WW style (I don't really know why people call it that...I think because there's not really a lot of emphasis on restricting meat). It's not mutually exclusive to VB6, by the way. You could do both. But the great thing about SFT is that you don't have to "count" or weigh or measure any of the power foods.

                                                                              For me, it's a way of choosing what I eat more mindfully without having to feel like I'm "on a diet" all the time. You still get your activity points and your weekly points allowance. I use those for things like nuts or "upgrading" my nonfat dairy to lowfat.

                                                                              RE": VB6--I think I'd have the same problem as rmarisco describes below, is that I'd crave protein, etc. all day long and gorge at dinner. I think I'd be better off having my non vegan meal at breakfast. Which, of course is fine, except, I wonder, is VB6 heavy on the breakfast recipes?

                                                                              Finally, I also take leftovers for lunch, so I'd be more in the vein of eating vegan for two days in a row kind of thing, than just mornings only.

                                                                              ~TDQ

                                                                  2. mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 01:06 PM

                                                                    my office orders in lunch once a week and today they had "Pub Fare", which included, surprise of surprises, some vegan sausage patties! awesome, with some slaw on the side and roasted beets.

                                                                    good thing, cuz i blew it yesterday. but we soldier on.

                                                                    1. k
                                                                      katnat Jul 10, 2013 07:47 PM

                                                                      I've been trying to be vb6 but here's my problem - lunch (I work from home) is usually reconfigured leftovers with lots of fresh veggies added. Usually there's a small piece of meat involved. Don't know what I'm supposed to do with what is really not enough for dinner but us perfect for a lunch - throw it out?

                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                      1. re: katnat
                                                                        L.Nightshade Jul 10, 2013 10:06 PM

                                                                        No, don't throw stuff out! I'm in your same situation, and when I scrounge the refrigerator for lunch, the bits of leftover savory meats are very appealing. I'm either wrapping them up and freezing them, or incorporating them into dinners. Think how lucky we are! We are working from home and in control of what we eat!

                                                                        1. re: katnat
                                                                          p
                                                                          pedalfaster Jul 11, 2013 01:41 PM

                                                                          Sorry if I am missing something here, but I don't think it really matters what time of day you eat your meat. From what I understand Bittman picked 6 pm because that is what works for HIM.

                                                                          If you want to eat meat for lunch and return to plant-based eating for the rest of day, that should be fine. Ditto for those who don't want to give up their bacon and eggs for breakfast. Bittman also cites folks who eat a vegan diet during the week and are omnivores on the weekend.(Note this is for those giving up meat for dietary, not ethical or religious reasons--hopefully that is obvious!)

                                                                          I think it's less about actual time of day (or day of the week) and more about mindfulness.

                                                                          1. re: pedalfaster
                                                                            mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 02:48 PM

                                                                            of course. the point is only to limit you to one non-vegan meal per day (or, as you say, 2 non-vegan meals per week - the point is less meat/dairy/processed foods, more veggies), and for a lot of people, myself included, dinners are harder to make vegan because i eat with someone who would not be amenable to that, and i also like to eat out quite a bit, and would not like to limit myself to non-meat/dairy items when i'm out on the town.

                                                                          2. re: katnat
                                                                            c
                                                                            Cajohn Aug 17, 2013 05:33 PM

                                                                            Freeze it and when you have enough left overs of the same kind there's dinner ready .i would use a plastic box for things like that so i don't have little packs all over the freezer.

                                                                          3. b
                                                                            bonoeuf Jul 10, 2013 12:45 PM

                                                                            Interesting! I like the idea and the fact that we can eat as vegans do on a part-time basis, in whatever routine works. Like L. Nightshade, evening is when I'm at my weakest so the after 6 deal might work. Thanks for posting the link, mariacarmen!

                                                                            1. L.Nightshade Jul 10, 2013 12:30 PM

                                                                              I'm in! (As I sit here on my lunch break with stir fried bok choy and broccoli, a little tofu, a little sriracha.) I actually had almond milk in my caffe "latte" this morning. Thanks for posting, and for including that link.

                                                                              This should be relatively easy for me, as I'm not usually tempted during the day, just during social evenings. We shall see...

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