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Demeyere vs All Clad vs Mauviel

b
bombadilio Jul 9, 2013 08:45 AM

So I have about $1,000 - $1,600 to spend. I am looking at new cookware and am deciding between the following in the title. I am looking for what I feel is the "Best cookware" I have had Calphalon and Analon Copper Core but I am planning to steer away from non stick and go stainless steel. All you chefs and avid cookers what do you think of my breakdown? I am really feeling the Demeyere, but each line has so many differences I cant decide. I most likely will buy them from Bed Bath beyond with my gift cards.

All Clad D5 or the Copper Core
http://www.all-clad.com/Pages/Collections/d5.aspx

Demeyere - John Pawson or Atlantis-I saw industry5 but I am not sure of it

http://www.demeyere.be/default.asp?CID=7916&SLID=1

Mauviel M'heritage - I will be honest to me it just looks good, I know it's quality, they all seem to have copper and the stainless steel to surface to cook on, coupled with many handle types.

http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-heritage....

Would love to hear the discussion going here

FYI: I want it to work on Gas / induction / electric. Right now I use gas, I always hand wash as well so dishwashers don't make sense.

  1. m
    mwhitmore Jul 9, 2013 09:11 AM

    If you go for the copper, get only the 250 (2.5mm) with the cast-iron handles. Note that you must hand wash, it can never go in the dishwasher. But copper does cook best. You could also consider Bourgeat, which cooks the same but has a curved lip for easier pouring without drips. If you go for AC or Demeyere, I would go by which handle feels the best to you. Get some hands-on, lift, try to pour. I like the Demeyere big flat handles (on Industry) better than the old AC, but have not tried the new AC or Atlantis.

    7 Replies
    1. re: mwhitmore
      b
      bombadilio Jul 9, 2013 09:15 AM

      Thanks mwhitmore, I never use a dishwasher so that's not an issue. I like copper due to how it cooks, I am quite taken by the demeyere line.

      Do you know if there is actually a big difference between the Pawson and atlantis vs the Mauviel and all clad?

      1. re: bombadilio
        m
        mwhitmore Jul 10, 2013 11:00 AM

        Didn't notice the induction, copper won't work. Industry is fully clad like AC. Atlantis sauce pans have the multiple layers on the bottom, but not up the sides. The fry pans are fully clad. Agree with other posters that I would not get a set---there is always one pan you never use, negating the 'savings'. I like to keep different pans for different purposes: Cast-iron, copper, clad and an egg pan.

      2. re: mwhitmore
        b
        bombadilio Jul 11, 2013 07:59 AM

        What is the main difference between the 150 and 250?

        1. re: bombadilio
          kaleokahu Jul 11, 2013 11:07 AM

          Hi, bombadilio:

          M150 is (approximately) 1.5mm thick, and M250 is supposed to be 2.5mm thick. Bear in mind that those numbers are the *total* thickness, so what you get is more like 1.3 and 2.3 mm of copper, depending on which you choose.

          The difference 1mm of extra copper makes is well worth the extra price. IMO the thinner pans are not worth having at any price--except maybe for decoration or table service.

          Aloha,
          Kaleo

          1. re: kaleokahu
            omotosando Jul 11, 2013 07:02 PM

            Hi Kaleo. I have a question about "table service" copper. I bought an oval copper fish pan on Ebay that turned out to be "table service" copper. I haven't measured it, but it is so much thinner than my other copper pieces that it can't be any more than 1.5 thickness at most.

            At first I was dubious and debated about spending the money to retin it, but I did go ahead and retin it.

            I now use it frequently. So far, to make two dishes. One is oil the pan, throw in a piece of seasoned salmon; cook about 6 minutes one side; flip and one minute the other side. The other dish involves chopping up a lot of tomatoes, throwing them in the pan with seasoning and spices and a green pepper, and once I have a nice sauce, throw in some tilapia and cook for short time.

            Both dishes turn out very nicely. But I am curious if the dishes would somehow turn out better or differently if I was cooking with heavier copper. Or what else I could do in a heavier copper fish pan that is lacking in this pan.

            1. re: omotosando
              kaleokahu Jul 11, 2013 08:30 PM

              Hi, omotosando:

              The evenness of heat is generally compromised with thin copper. If you think of the pan's thickness as a pipe or conduit, there's not much capacity to move the heat out away from the heat source, e.g., out into the elipses of your fish pan. Most of the heat tends to go straight up, and unless your hob is very even, you're liable to get scorches at all but the lowest heat.

              OTOH, if your hob is totally even (e.g., is a solid-top) you won't have this problem, *and* the pan will be very responsive because there's so little mass. For example, when you do a meuniere, simply lifting the thin pan off the hob will quickly slow the cooking to a stop.

              Fish pans are strange animals. I've yet to find one that is very thick. Perhaps this responsiveness advantage is the reason they're mostly thin.

              I can posit that if your salmon and tilapia pieces are single and/or small and don't rely on cooking in the ends of the pan hanging off the hob, the results would be very good, maybe no different than in a thick pan. But I'll also wager that you'd see a difference with cooking a long fillet or whole fish the ends of which hang out past the hob.

              That's the best I can do. I hope it helps.

              Aloha,
              Kaleo

              1. re: kaleokahu
                omotosando Jul 11, 2013 11:11 PM

                Thanks Kaleo. I will soon pick up a whole fish and report back. However, it will have to be a smaller whole fish because the pan is not large enough for a huge whole fish.

                I'm thinking the weight of the copper probably matters less when I essentially simmer the fish for a few minutes in tomato sauce (that method of making fish seems very forgiving), but would matter more with a pan fry method where you don't have a thick sauce that forgives a lot of sins.

      3. kaleokahu Jul 9, 2013 09:34 AM

        Hi, bombadillo:

        I'd say Mauviel, then Demeyere, then A-C if it were me. But the mauviel is not compatible with induction, unless you get a converter disk.

        You might also consider deBuyer's Prima Matera line.

        Aloha,
        Kaleo

        1. omotosando Jul 9, 2013 06:12 PM

          I am not familiar with All Clad or Mauviel M'heritage, but I love my two Demeyere Atlantis pieces (a large sauteuse and a 3.2 quart saucepan) and I just ordered a Demeyere Proline 11 inch frypan (Proline is what Demeyre calls their frypan line). I went with Atlantis over John Pawson strictly on aesthetics - the look of the John Pawson line is just not my aesthetic.

          If you do some research on Demeyere, you will see that what people love are the tight fitting and completely functional lids, the weight and the no rivets, which make cleaning a breeze.

          Kaleo right here on this Board was the one who turned me on to tin lined copper, which I also love (much more than stainless lined copper -- I have one piece of Falk and it is an okay pan, but I much prefer tin lined copper), but I like to have some stainless pieces as well, particularly when doing highly acidic simmers; hence, the addition of Demeyere in my kitchen.

          The downside of Demeyere is the price. I'm thinking of filling in my kitchen with some inexpensive Sitram Profisserie pieces. For instance, there are some teas I like to make where you are supposed to simmer the tea in the water on the stovetop rather than boiling the water in a kettle and then infusing with hot water in a pot. Sitram Profisserie makes nice lipped saucepans that would be perfect for that. Copper and Demeyere are complete overkill for simmering tea in water.

          So I definitely think you need different kinds of pots and pans in the kitchen for different purposes. Much as I love my Demeyere, I would never try to make scrambled eggs, omelets or pancakes in stainless steel -- it is just too sticky for me for that purpose. Also I make a lot of fish on the stovetop -- I haven't tried the Demeyere for that purpose. For something delicate like fish where you really don't want to risk stickiness, I just instinctually reach for the tin lined copper.

          1. m
            mikie Jul 9, 2013 07:47 PM

            If you are serious about induction, the copper is not your best choice, you will need a way to adapt it to induction. The Demeyere Atlantis is a disc bottom design with a very heavy bottom disc. This is great for heat distribution, but some pans, a large saute for example, are quite heavy, one will not be "jumping" food in one of these for very long. Other than that, it's great cookware. Many, myself included, find the All Clad handles, even the new ones, uncomfortable. I don't like the angel or the shape. It is however good quality 5 ply construction. The Demeyere Industry 5 has a different handle with a texture on it, I've never cooked with it, but just to grab one in the store, I'm a bit uneasy with it. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but make sure you handle any new pots and pans you are considering, they all have their own personality. All the cookware on your list is high quality and will cook well.

            4 Replies
            1. re: mikie
              b
              bombadilio Jul 11, 2013 07:58 AM

              I was at Sur La Table and they said that the Mauviel line is magnetic and should be able to do induction. I am not so sure about that. I like the handles on the Mauviel but they seem to be cast iron and could get hot.

              1. re: bombadilio
                kaleokahu Jul 11, 2013 11:13 AM

                Unless something has changed very recently, Mauviel copperware will not function on any induction hob offered in the U.S.

                No, even if the Mauviels *did* work, the iron handles would not get hot. Induction only heats the very bottom of the pan, at most a few millimeters above the glass. But the handles are not insulated, so they could gradually get hot from the contents.

                Nota Bene: Don't always trust what the sales associates at SLT say.

                1. re: bombadilio
                  c
                  cutipie721 Jul 11, 2013 06:58 PM

                  Mauviel does make two lines of cookware that are induction compatible. They're just not made of copper.

                  http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-cook.html?parentId=1&pushParent

                  http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-stone2.ht... <- non-stick though, not what you said you want.

                  To make your dilemma bigger, check out Fissler and Sitram as well. All available through BB&B.

                  1. re: cutipie721
                    kaleokahu Jul 11, 2013 08:38 PM

                    And they formerly made a third line, called Induc'Inox or somesuch, that people rave about working best of all on induction (Hi, Politeness). The problem with that line is that it was SS-clad steel, and so performed poorly on conventional hobs. And so didn't sell, and so was discontinued. Used pieces can still be found, though.

              2. k
                kimbers324 Jul 9, 2013 07:50 PM

                I have both AC and Demeyere. The AC handles are uncomfortable for me and one of my pans warped. I have recently gone thru a phase of researching and purchasing some new pans to fill in some gaps in my collection or replace some items. I didn't even consider additional AC pieces given my experience with the pieces I already owned (1.5 sauce pan, 8 inch skillet, and 2 qt saute pan).

                I purchased both the 11" and 9.5" Demeyere proline skillets, but returned the 11". They are both beautiful, high quality pieces, but the the 11" was just way too heavy for me. I ordered the 11" Viking 7 ply instead, and I absolutely love that, as well as my 9.5" Demeyere. I have the 9.5" Viking, as well - totally unnecessary, I know, couldn't help myself!

                I also have the Viking 3 qt saute pan, which is great. Probably redundant with the 11" skillet b/c the sides are the same height on both and the saute has just slightly more flat cooking surface. Viking is made by Demeyere in Belgium. Slightly lighter, and with riveted handles instead of welded, but that's ok with me. I love all three of my Viking pieces.

                You may also want to consider some enameled cast iron - a dutch oven if you don't already have one, or a braiser (which is really a great multi-purpose pan to have). I love my Le Creuset 3.5 qt braiser, but I would not repurchase that now, given how redundant it is with my 3 qt saute and 11" skillet. Also, it is quite expensive and Lodge has an enameled 3 qt casserole that works just as well and costs so much less. I think a Lodge enameled or a Tramontina would be good alternatives to a Le Creuset dutch oven, if you didn't want to pay the LC prices.

                135 Replies
                1. re: kimbers324
                  m
                  mikie Jul 9, 2013 08:06 PM

                  I too, have Viking 3qt and 6 qt saute pans, this was because of the weight of some of the alternatives and I find the handles to be quite comfortable.

                  1. re: kimbers324
                    omotosando Jul 9, 2013 08:19 PM

                    Hmmm. I have the 11 inch Demeyere skillet on order. Hope it doesn't prove too heavy for me. I am used to heavy copper.

                    Since you own both the Demeyere and Viking 9.5 skillets, how would you compare them? Viking is significantly less expensive; is the Demeyere worth the extra money?

                    1. re: omotosando
                      l
                      laraffinee Jul 9, 2013 08:37 PM

                      If you are used to heavy copper, the 11 inch Demeyere Proline is no big deal.

                      I don't have Viking and didn't go for the Viking even though the price was seductive because I hate rivets.

                      1. re: omotosando
                        k
                        kimbers324 Jul 9, 2013 08:38 PM

                        Practically speaking, no. The Demeyere is gleaming shiny and has no rivets from the handle. The Viking is more of a matte, brushed finish with rivets. Both are weighty but even the 9.5" Demeyere is quite heavy. I happened to order them both so it was hard to part with one when I saw them. If I was in a store and was purchasing only one pan, a 9.5", I'd probably choose the Viking b/c of the more reasonable cost and the fact that the rivets are not an issue for me. It is a great pan. If I was purchasing both an 11" and 9.5" (which was my original intention, even though I ended up with two 9.5"), I'd go for the Viking 11" and Demeyere 9.5" for the variety. But that is not practical. The Viking 11" and 9.5" is so much more practical - and both are excellent, manageable, top-of-the-line pieces. I'll be interested to know what you think about the Demeyere weight. I simply couldn't handle the 11".

                        1. re: omotosando
                          Sid Post Jul 9, 2013 08:44 PM

                          I own two Demeyere Proline 5* skillets and love them. I'm sure Viking is nice but, for the small difference in price I am glad I bought Demeyere. These are the best stainless steel skillets I have ever used.

                          9 1/2 inch models can be had for $150 delivered and the 11 inch model was $200.

                          The curved Saucier and Saucepan are really nice too!

                          1. re: Sid Post
                            omotosando Jul 9, 2013 09:07 PM

                            The price of Proline has gone up. The cheapest price I could find yesterday when I ordered the 11 inch online was $260.

                            Is the Proline deep enough to simmer chicken thighs? A few weeks ago I totally discolored a brand new tin lining on a copper sauté pan making this recipe that called for a long simmer in a sauce of coconut milk and apple cider vinegar. I was hoping to be able to use the 11 inch Proline for dishes like that, but not sure if it is deep enough.

                            Also is there anything you ever make in the Proline where you wish you had a lid?

                            1. re: omotosando
                              omotosando Jul 9, 2013 09:24 PM

                              Also do you have any suggestions for lids for Proline? I am just looking through the cookbook "Jerusalem" and there is an interesting recipe for beef meatballs with fava beans. It says to make the meatballs in an extra large frying pan with a lid. So the 11 inch Proline only fits half the bill.

                              1. re: omotosando
                                l
                                laraffinee Jul 10, 2013 04:26 AM

                                I use the lid from the 4.2 quart sauté from the Atlantis line. It is also 11".

                                Cutlery and More (www.cutleryandmore.com) has 20% off today. I got most of my Demeyere from them and usually during such sales. If the discount does not activate, call them directly and ask. They are good about that.

                                1. re: laraffinee
                                  Sid Post Jul 10, 2013 05:45 AM

                                  With patience, you can buy Demeyere Atlantis for ~50% off MSRP. Impulse buys aren't discounted that significantly nor are brick and mortar in store purchase. However, Henckels bought Demeyere a while back so they periodically have sales and various discounts that have brought prices down significantly.

                                  1. re: laraffinee
                                    k
                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 03:32 PM

                                    I'm looking at the Demeyere Atlantis line and I was wondering if you or someone else could help me find these measurements:

                                    I'm looking at the Demeyere Atlantis 12.6 inch Proline pan and was wondering, when measured on the inside bottom of the pan (Not the outside/back of the pan or the top diameter or measuring any of the curved edge) what does the bottom diameter measure in inches (Only the flat surface area inside of the bottom of the pan)? I also was wondering the same information for the Demeyere Atlantis 4.2 quart Saute pan.

                                    I know that you may only have the 4.2 quart Saute, but any information would be appreciated or advice on someone who you may know that owns the 12.6 Proline fry pan so I can ask them.

                                    Thank you in advance, this information is really helpful, and thank you to anyone else that can help me too.

                                    And sorry to anyone who has received this message multiple times.

                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                      kaleokahu Aug 13, 2013 04:41 PM

                                      Hi, KPD:

                                      The 4.2Q saute is 11"/28cm in diameter.

                                      The Proline 12.6"/32cm fry pan has a floor that is 10.2"/26cm in diameter.

                                      For other dimensions of Demeyere pans, see: http://www.demeyere.be/media/demeyere...

                                      Aloha,
                                      Kaleo

                                      1. re: kaleokahu
                                        k
                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 04:48 PM

                                        Thank you so much Kaleo!

                                        That helps me a tonne : )

                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                          kaleokahu Aug 13, 2013 04:52 PM

                                          No problem, KPD, any time.

                                          1. re: kaleokahu
                                            k
                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 04:53 PM

                                            I've seen you around a lot on here and I just wanted to say I'm really glad you're on here and answering questions, you're very helpful.

                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                              kaleokahu Aug 13, 2013 04:56 PM

                                              Some say I spew, but thanks! ;)

                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                k
                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 04:58 PM

                                                We can't always be perfect, you're welcome.

                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                  DuffyH Aug 13, 2013 05:50 PM

                                                  You? Spew? Slander! :)

                                                  On topic, have you used the DM skillets? My understanding is that the Silvinox finish helps keep the pan shiny. Does it help with performance in any way?

                                                  Have you tried the Proline pan, and if so, does it live up to the hype, i.e. more non-stick than ordinary stainless, etc...? I know you've cooked on induction before, is there a chance you've used DM on it?

                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                    kaleokahu Aug 13, 2013 08:41 PM

                                                    Hi, Duffy:

                                                    I've played with the DM pans, but I don't own any. The Tripl'Induc bases are supposedly optimized for induction efficiency, but not at the expense of working on conventional hobs like the fabled (and now-retired) Mauviel Induc'Inox.

                                                    The Silvinox is a strange finish. I recall that it's a high-tech spayed molten metal. It imparts a minor streaky texture, and the newer pans with it are indeed shiny. The texture may also help with stickiness.

                                                    The 5-star Proline skillets are a full 4.8mm thick, so they should be extremely even. They feel heavy, even for an aluminum core pan. The hype about nonstick I'm not sure about.

                                                    You might also like the Control'Induc feature, which renders the base non-magnetic at temperatures >485F--far less likely to warp or delam a pan.

                                                    Seattle's best indie kitchen store recently went OOB and liquidated. I meant to buy their full set of cutaways of all the DM pans, but the line stretched for blocks so I passed.

                                                    THe build quality and finish are excellent. They even have a designer line, Pawson.

                                                    Aloha,
                                                    Kaleo

                                                    1. re: kaleokahu
                                                      Sid Post Aug 13, 2013 09:31 PM

                                                      "The 5-star Proline skillets are a full 4.8mm thick, so they should be extremely even. They feel heavy, even for an aluminum core pan. The hype about nonstick I'm not sure about."

                                                      Yes, Yes, and non-stick? Better than the cheap pans I owned long ago but, my technique is better now too.

                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                        k
                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 11:46 PM

                                                        Sid Post, you write a lot of loving posts about the Demeyere Atlantis/Proline cookware, what type of stovetop do you use with it?

                                                        And it's true, you can have the best pan, but if your technique is bad your food is still going to stick.

                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                          Sid Post Aug 14, 2013 07:00 PM

                                                          In recent history it has generally been a cheap electric coil stove. It sees limited use on Induction for generally light duty stuff.

                                                          As I have mentioned elsewhere, even on undersize coils I get heat clear to the outer edge of the pan. I still like lots of iron (cast generally) for a great sear on a weak stove but, for everything else I don't see the need to dump so much heat energy into a pan so an alternative skillet is called for.

                                                          The Demeyere is so easy to work with .... why mess with success? Hence my follow on purchases.

                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                            k
                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 09:55 PM

                                                            I currently am stuck on a very old weak electric coil stove, so I am more than thrilled to hear all of this. Reading your posts from different threads has really given me a sense of how well Demeyere works and I'm really excited to get some of my own now.

                                                            "As I have mentioned elsewhere, even on undersize coils I get heat clear to the outer edge of the pan."

                                                            I really love this about the cookware, this is actually one of my top 5 reasons I'm incredibly excited to get some Demeyere into my collection.

                                                            "I still like lots of iron (cast generally) for a great sear on a weak stove but, for everything else I don't see the need to dump so much heat energy into a pan so an alternative skillet is called for."

                                                            I work the same exact way.

                                                            There is no reason to fix the unbroken.

                                                      2. re: kaleokahu
                                                        k
                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 13, 2013 11:41 PM

                                                        "The Tripl'Induc bases are supposedly optimized for induction efficiency, but not at the expense of working on conventional hobs like the fabled (and now-retired) Mauviel Induc'Inox."

                                                        I don't know what you mean here, can you elaborate please?

                                                        "I meant to buy their full set of cutaways of all the DM pans, but the line stretched for blocks so I passed."

                                                        What is a cutaway?

                                                        You seem to really like the Demeyere brand, what cookware do you actually own and why? (I'm not trying to stir people up) But, you use a gas stove too, correct?

                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                          kaleokahu Aug 14, 2013 06:58 AM

                                                          Hi, KPD:

                                                          1. Different formulations of ferritic steel and iron work better or worse on induction. It's not a simple matter of "works" or not. The Demeyere Tripl'Induc is supposedly optimized for that AND the rest of the construction makes it also great on gas, electric, etc. The Mauviel Induc'Inox was excellent on induction, but mediocre on everything else by virtue of it being SS-carbonsteel-SS clad. It fizzled and was discontinued, but some induction fans swear by it.

                                                          2. A cutaway is a small section of a pan, sawn through, so you can see and measure the layers inside. Demeyere is one of the few companies that doesn't try to hide the actual thicknesses of its layers. Most companies will show a *diagram* of the layers, but never to scale or disclose the actual thicknesses.

                                                          3. I have no Demeyere, although if I found a piece at a low price, I'd buy it. I still have some LC, Staub, straight-gauge aluminum, vintage CI, and one W-S Thermoclad skillet I was given to evaluate. But the huge majority of my cookware is vintage tinned copper. I find it just works better for me.

                                                          4. I'm lucky enough to have several stoves in my houses. In the summertime I cook on gas, coil electric and I have a radiant cooktop in a cabin. I have the Aroma induction hotplate. But Fall to Spring, I mostly cook on a wood and coal-fired range.

                                                          Aloha,
                                                          Kaleo

                                                          1. re: kaleokahu
                                                            k
                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 09:28 AM

                                                            Hello Kaleo,

                                                            1. I understand know, I'm really glad to hear that the rest of the construction is also great for everything else. I heard that about the Mauviel Induc'Inox on another one of these conversations, I guess if you have induction it's worth trying those out to see if they are as good as they sound.

                                                            2. The fact that they actually don't hide that is one of the reasons I like the company, what were you looking to use the cutaways for? Sounds interesting.

                                                            3. So, is the reason you don't any Demeyere about affordabilty and that you really like your vintage tinned copper/have you cookware needs met with your current pieces? What does Cl stand for?

                                                            4. That's a lot of options. What do you find coil electric good for? It never seems like it's good for much of anything. What is a radiant cooktop? The wood and coal fire sounds lovely.

                                                            Thank you for the information.

                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                              kaleokahu Aug 14, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                              Hi, KPD:

                                                              Induc'Inox is not easy to find, and it's now esoteric.

                                                              I would have kept the cutaways just as a reference. I've actually floated the idea here on CH of starting a cookware "library" that includes cutaways and loaner/demo pieces for passaround, so people *know* what they're buying beforehand.

                                                              Electric coil is good for pretty much anything that doesn't require a flame or fast downward response. It's very even heat. A radiant hob is an electric element placed below a glass cooktop surface--the heat is transferred (mostly) by radiation rather conduction as with a coil.

                                                              I don't have any Demeyere for both reasons. My copper performs better, and the DM is quite expensive to buy at retail. I prefer to put my cookware money into specialty pieces of copper or upgrades as best-quality pans appear for resale.

                                                              The solid-fuel stove has been a joy--a hot, dirty, demanding, challenging, complicated thing--but a joy. The rituals of it are amazing, and it trains you to be in the moment. Fueling it on the West Coast with Pennsylvania anthracite is a headache, but we have lots of fruitwood here that burns long and hot. For a couple of months in the Fall and Spring, it supplies all the heat the house needs. Next step is to hook it up to the hot water system...

                                                              Aloha,
                                                              Kaleo

                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                k
                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 10:17 AM

                                                                Hello Kaleo,

                                                                I know it is, but I was just saying for the enthusiasts.

                                                                A "library" like that would be brilliant, that would absolutely be a solid resource for those that are trying to see what they are getting into and trying to understand the choices.

                                                                I never knew that electric could be so even, that's really interesting to know. What cookware requires flame or fast downward response? I now understand what a radiant hob is.

                                                                That makes a lot of sense about why you don't own any.

                                                                That reminds me a lot of how my Gran cooks, it gives me those warm feelings of home. Hooking it up to your water system sounds very exciting, I hope it goes well.

                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                  kaleokahu Aug 14, 2013 07:13 PM

                                                                  Hi, KPD: "What cookware requires flame or fast downward response?"

                                                                  Cookware doesn't. It's the prep that might.

                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                    k
                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 09:48 PM

                                                                    What prep requires flame or fast downward response?

                                                              2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                k
                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 03:14 PM

                                                                To anyone in the future that may be wondering:

                                                                CI stands for Cast Iron. On this website currently upper case "i" and lower case "L" look the same.

                                                          2. re: kaleokahu
                                                            DuffyH Aug 14, 2013 08:04 AM

                                                            Hey Kaleo,

                                                            Thanks. A spectacular frypan is one thing I might be willing to pay $$$ for. The single positive thing about my radiant range is that it's so easy to get even heat across any pan, more so than any other cooker. DM sounds pretty good, and owners all rave about it, more so than many other cookware lines, except maybe Mauviel or Falk.

                                                            <You might also like the Control'Induc feature, which renders the base non-magnetic at temperatures >485F--far less likely to warp or delam a pan.>

                                                            I need that for my CS pans!

                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                              k
                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                              "DM sounds pretty good, and owners all rave about it, more so than many other cookware lines, except maybe Mauviel or Falk."

                                                              That's actually why I'm looking into it (I've also been looking for cookware that is also welded handles and metal lids). I haven't seen anyone say anything bad about Demeyere except the price.

                                                          3. re: DuffyH
                                                            omotosando Aug 14, 2013 12:14 AM

                                                            I have the Proline 11 inch skillet and find it more nonstick and easier to clean than other stainless pans I have owned. I do use a bit of oil in it and don't try to cook with it like it is Teflon so I can't say how it would perform with no oil at all, nor have I tried to cook eggs in it (the ultimate test of a pan's stickiness).

                                                            I have a gas stove, so I can't comment how the DM would cook on induction.

                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                              k
                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 12:25 AM

                                                              That is really awesome that it's easier to clean and is more nonstick, why do you personally think that is?

                                                              "and don't try to cook with it like it is Teflon"

                                                              What does it mean to cook with a pan as if it were a Teflon pan? Do you mean without fats?

                                                              Tell me if you try eggs in it and how it goes, I'd love to know if you ever do.

                                                              Do you find that your Demeyere cooks very well on your gas stove?
                                                              (I ask because when I ideally use the Demeyere I'm going to have in the future, I will be using it on gas and most thoughts on Demeyere's preformance seems like it is coming from induction users, which Demeyere themselves use. That is actually why I asked Sid Post what his stovetop is, since he is very emphatic on how well it preforms for him).

                                                              1. re: omotosando
                                                                DuffyH Aug 14, 2013 08:09 AM

                                                                omotosando,

                                                                <I have the Proline 11 inch skillet and find it more nonstick and easier to clean than other stainless pans...>

                                                                I've heard the same from other owners. Makes me think there's got to be something to it. I'm not real concerned about cleaning as I've always thought stainless is ridiculously easy to clean. Still, easier is easier and not to be sneezed at.

                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                  k
                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 14, 2013 09:15 AM

                                                                  "Still, easier is easier and not to be sneezed at."

                                                                  I completely agree with you.

                                                    2. re: kaleokahu
                                                      k
                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 01:08 PM

                                                      In case anyone is wondering the link from Kaleo above, which is information that comes from Demeyere when Demeyere is measuring the base of an item they are measuring the outside bottom of the pan.

                                                      This was proven here by Sid Post:
                                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9058...

                                                      Demeyere lists the Proline 12.6 fry pan as having a base of 10.2 as Kaleo has said, but when Sid Post measured the truly flat portion of the inside of the pan the pan measured 8.5 inches, not the 10.2.

                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                        Sid Post Aug 15, 2013 08:16 PM

                                                        The curved portion starts out VERY shallow. Add in a short 1/4" thickness, and the measurements can vary ~1/2 inch (twice the thickness). I will say that I feel it cooks larger than a 10 inch and feels like a generous 12" skillet even though the truly flat portion seems small. This skillet is well thought out.

                                                        Give it time to warm up on a weak coil and it will work well. However, don't expect wonders if you plop down a huge cold piece of meat and suck all the heat out the pan while a weak coil continues to sputter. Manage your heat and you will be very happy.

                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                          k
                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 09:09 PM

                                                          It really sounds wonderfully thought out, it seems you get a lot for the area that it provides. That's really lovely in a pan.

                                                          It makes me happy when you point out that these preheat so well given that I'm currently working on a weak electric coil. I'm happy that I'm finally going to have cookware that can work properly, even on it.

                                                          Also, great advice to those starting out in cooking about letting meat come to room temperature, it can't be said enough.

                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                            Sid Post Aug 16, 2013 05:55 AM

                                                            KungPaoDumplings, you sound a lot like myself in terms of what we currently have to cook with.

                                                            With a good thick cast iron skillet for a hard sear on meat (large thermal capacity for a weak heat source) and a very even skillet for gentler cooking, you will have a great set of cooking options. I also use a DeBuyer "country pan" for fatty meat that pops and splatters (ground beef for example) and do the initial cook there to pull off the fat and brown in small batches were I transfer the results to the skillet for a gentler simmer, light fry, etc. with other food items. I like the tall sides to contain the mess and to keep the bulk of the fat out of the skillet.

                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                              k
                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 10:01 AM

                                                              It sounds precisely like we have the same, that's why I've been so excited to hear what you've been saying about the performances since I'll know what to expect in my kitchen.

                                                              That's exactly what I do too, I’ve been using the same set up of cast iron searing and gentle cooking on SS for years (It makes me giggle reading what you wrote above on how you cook in the kitchen because of how many similarities we have in the kitchen). The DeBuyer set up sounds like it works great for you, nice and efficient; I really like frying in pans with high sides myself, the difference on the mess is huge.

                                                              What exactly is a country pan?

                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                KPD -

                                                                <What exactly is a country pan?>

                                                                Now you've done it. You had ask, didn't you? Sid looooves his country pan. But we don't make lifestyle judgements here. ;)

                                                                Disclaimer - Sid knows I would love a country pan, too, but it's just too darned heavy for me. I have weak, skinny wrists.

                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                  k
                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 12:10 PM

                                                                  I've let loose something have I?

                                                                  I'm sorry in advance.

                                                                  So, what exactly is one?

                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                    DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 01:28 PM

                                                                    KPD -

                                                                    It's one of these:

                                                                    http://www.finestcookware.com/catalog...

                                                                    There are less expensive ones on the same site (see the Force Blue and Carbone, all made by DeBuyer) but this one has the best picture. I'll let Sid fill in the details for you. He cooks with it frequently.

                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                      k
                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 01:38 PM

                                                                      (Just so you know for some reason when I clicked the link it redirected me to choose country. If you choose country and then reclick this link it will bring you to the right website.)

                                                                      It looks like a flat bottomed conical, how interesting. I'll had Sid fill me in.

                                                                      Thank you Duffy!

                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                        Sid Post Aug 16, 2013 03:55 PM

                                                                        http://www.debuyer.com/images/product/5614.jpg
                                                                        http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...

                                                                        I have the 32cm (5614.32) De Buyer Mineral "Country Pan". It is similar to the "fry pan" but has ~3.5 inch high sides. It is about 6 pounds empty. I use it a lot. My skillets can fry bacon fine but, this pan fries more bacon at one time with less mess. Fatty ground meats see this pan a lot too. It makes a good surrogate for my Lodge cast iron skillets. It is too deep to fry an egg but, I do have those wonderful skillets for that task.

                                                                        The crepe pans work great for pancakes and I have been known to use one for a steak occasionally when I sear one and toss the whole thing in the oven to finish. I own a bunch of the De Buyer pans and really enjoy using them too when I have the need for something different like home made sweat potato french fries in the "fry pan".

                                                                        Buy the Demeyere skillets first! Then we can work on the De Buyer mineral pans ..... :-D

                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                          Sid Post Aug 16, 2013 04:09 PM

                                                                          Notice I used the plural on the Demeyere "skillets"!!!!!

                                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                                            DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 07:03 PM

                                                                            Sid,

                                                                            Thank you for mentioning them in the plural. If you could only have one, which would it be? I'm stuck between 9.5" and 11". I have a 12" Lodge CI and a 12" tri-ply, and an 11" lodge round griddle.

                                                                            I was leaning towards the 11", but knowing I can sear on the sides of the pan means the 9.5" could work without crowding the food. I'm usually cooking for 2. Your thoughts?

                                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                                              k
                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:23 PM

                                                                              Sid will certainly steer you the right way!

                                                                              I'm curious: what are you looking to cook in the pan?

                                                                              I'm asking this, trying to get to know you and your personal style, seeing the other pans you own.

                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                DuffyH Aug 17, 2013 09:48 PM

                                                                                KPD,

                                                                                Most of the time it will be called on to sear chicken breasts then produce a pan sauce. I'll pan-fry breaded fish in it, too. I'll sear roasts in it or the 12" clad, depending on the size of the roast. The 12" clad will do all these things, and has, but it's too big for a quick pan sauce for 2. The liquid just evaporates off the large surface.

                                                                                That'll cover about 90% of it's usage. I deep fry lots of things in the 12" Lodge CI. It's also used for hash browns, blackened chicken/fish and a few other things. The Lodge 10.5" round griddle is used, along with my 2 DeBuyer crepe pans (8" FB and 10.5" Carbone) for many things. Eggs, grilled sandwiches, breakfast sausage patties, quesadillas, salmon cakes, really almost anything that doesn't need a pan with sides. I've cooked burgers on the Lodge griddle and the Carbone pan with great success. The DB crepe pans excel at (duh) crepes and pancakes. I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.

                                                                                I've got a number of other frypans now that won't make the switch to induction, so I haven't mentioned them. The only thing my induction arsenal will lack is something light for tossing veggies. They're my go-to sides, normally quick-cooked with some aromatics in butter or evoo. For those I'll likely pick up something lightweight in ~9" size.

                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                  k
                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 06:40 PM

                                                                                  “The liquid just evaporates off the large surface.”

                                                                                  I’ve had that problem before too; at least it’s an easy fix.

                                                                                  “The Lodge 10.5" round griddle is used, along with my 2 DeBuyer crepe pans (8" FB and 10.5" Carbone) for many things. Eggs, grilled sandwiches, breakfast sausage patties, quesadillas, salmon cakes, really almost anything that doesn't need a pan with sides.”

                                                                                  Why do you prefer these pans for these tasks instead of a frying pan?

                                                                                  “I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.”

                                                                                  That’s very cute, at least you remember now you have it for next time.

                                                                                  “The only thing my induction arsenal will lack is something light for tossing veggies. They're my go-to sides, normally quick-cooked with some aromatics in butter or evoo. For those I'll likely pick up something lightweight in ~9" size.”

                                                                                  Sounds delicious, it’s a good thing that Demeyere has one around 9 inch size (As I’m certain Sid will tell you), they also have a 7.9 inch as well if the 9.4 is too big for the job.

                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 08:22 PM

                                                                                    "“I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.”

                                                                                    That’s very cute, at least you remember now you have it for next time."

                                                                                    I actually bought additional crepe pans so I had one for each burner for those times when I want quantity. I find the crepe pans just work a lot better. Plus, where do you store the electric griddle? The crepe pans are also multi-taskers versus being a uni-tasker like the electric griddle.

                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                      Sid,

                                                                                      <Plus, where do you store the electric griddle?> In the pantry, on end.

                                                                                      <The crepe pans are also multi-taskers versus being a uni-tasker like the electric griddle.>
                                                                                      It's no more a OTP than crepe pans. I don't bring it out that often, but when I do, it's worth it. My 4 grandsons can plow through pancakes faster than I can make them. It's also good for times when I want a lot of bacon without heating the oven. Let's see.... 2 full-size or 4 small quesadillas, half a dozen grilled sandwiches, there are many uses, all of which seem to begin with "Hey Nana, what's for....?"

                                                                                    2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 08:23 PM

                                                                                      KPD,

                                                                                      <Why do you prefer these pans for these tasks instead of a frying pan?>

                                                                                      Let me count the ways.

                                                                                      1. No sides means food is incredibly easy to turn or flip.
                                                                                      2. Grilled cheese and quesadillas/flour tortillas taste WAY better when cooked in a pan that's been seasoned. I used to think it was just me, but other 'Hounds have said the same thing. CS and CI make food taste better than non-stick or stainless. I realize they'd taste good coming out of a frypan in the same materials, but IMO the ability to cook them without a spatula improves the taste.
                                                                                      3. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats my deBuyer Force Blue crepe pan for re-heating pizza. I gets the most amazing crunchy crust. I've never tasted leftover pizza that even comes close. Again, no spatula improves the flavor.
                                                                                      4. Guests are super impressed when I walk the pan to their plate and slide the food onto it. Yes, this can be done with a frypan, but some foods can get hung up on the slope of the side. Not so with a crepe pan. It looks so darn chef-y.

                                                                                      I'll most likely pick up a carbon steel frypan one of these days, I've just been putting it off until I change out my range. Until then, I've still got a few non-stick aluminum pans that are getting the job done.

                                                                                      <it’s a good thing that Demeyere has one around 9 inch size (As I’m certain Sid will tell you), they also have a 7.9 inch as well if the 9.4 is too big for the job.>

                                                                                      I think I'll only be able to afford one DM skillet, and will go with something lighter and less expensive for veggies and other tossed foods, where even heating and thermal mass aren't issues. I'll likely score something in the 9-10" range at TJ Maxx or pick up a Tramontina from Walmart.

                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                        k
                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 08:41 PM

                                                                                        I’m a little confused, how does not using a spatula improve flavour?

                                                                                        Very informative list, thank you for writing this all out (It’s nice to get to know your style), you’re very cute writing this list bytheway.

                                                                                        “I think I'll only be able to afford one DM skillet, and will go with something lighter and less expensive for veggies and other tossed foods, where even heating and thermal mass aren't issues. I'll likely score something in the 9-10" range at TJ Maxx or pick up a Tramontina from Walmart.”

                                                                                        That makes a lot of sense, I hope you find what you need!

                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 03:28 PM

                                                                                          ICanHazDumplings,

                                                                                          <I’m a little confused, how does not using a spatula improve flavour?>

                                                                                          Crusty food untouched by foreign objects tastes better. This is known.

                                                                                          No, seriously, it's not turning and flipping sans utensils that makes the food better, it's cooking it in a seasoned pan. Especially when said pan has many layers of butter baked into it. I've made the same foods on non-stick and stainless pans, and the food is just not as good. It's about the crust on sandwiches and re-heated pizza. Eggs pick up a subtle richness in a seasoned pan that's hard to describe. So do hash browns.

                                                                                          Also, I love my crepe pans because I look so damn cool when I cook without utensils. I do it as often as possible.

                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                            k
                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 03:38 PM

                                                                                            You're really making me want dumplings right now.

                                                                                            I thought this was exactly what you meant, but "but IMO the ability to cook them without a spatula improves the taste" and "Again, no spatula improves the flavor." made me second guess myself.

                                                                                            "Also, I love my crepe pans because I look so damn cool when I cook without utensils. I do it as often as possible."

                                                                                            You're really amusing. How do you flip without utensils? Just do a pan/air flip?

                                                                                            What crepe pans do you own (Brand/size)? I'm really sorry if you've already answered this but I've been reading so much from different people it's hard to remember if I have been told or where the information is

                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 04:06 PM

                                                                                              KPD,

                                                                                              <You're really amusing. How do you flip without utensils? Just do a pan/air flip?>

                                                                                              1. Thank you, you're very kind.
                                                                                              2. The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
                                                                                              3. Exactly. For practice, try extra pancakes, flour tortillas or silicone trivets.

                                                                                              <What crepe pans do you own (Brand/size)? I'm really sorry if you've already answered this but I've been reading so much from different people it's hard to remember if I have been told or where the information is.>

                                                                                              I'm happy to repeat. It's hard to gauge how much repetition to include when posting, because we just can't know what the reader recalls from prior posts.

                                                                                              I've got 2 DeBuyers crepe pans. One is a Force Blue, 8", the other is Carbone, 10.5". I flip stuff in the FB, the Carbone is too heavy for that, at least for me it is. I've also got a Lodge round griddle, 10.5". It's the heaviest of the 3.

                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                k
                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 04:11 PM

                                                                                                You’re welcome and thank you for the tips on how to practice.

                                                                                                I'm glad I didn't bother you.

                                                                                                What are the two different types of material good for/what are the differences?

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 05:36 PM

                                                                                                  KPD,

                                                                                                  Both pans are carbon steel. Force Blue is a little thinner and has less thermal mass than Carbone. FYI, Carbone is the same thickness as Mineral.

                                                                                                  the thinner FB is more responsive to heat changes, making it perfect for things like eggs, while the greater thermal mass of the Carbone means it holds heat better, making it better for searing a steak.

                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 06:16 PM

                                                                                                    That makes a lot of sense, thank you for writing this out.

                                                                                            2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                              kaleokahu Aug 19, 2013 03:40 PM

                                                                                              Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                              I'm not trying to ignite another induction debate, really. But you should be careful lest you are tempted to use a CS crepe pan as a converter disk. I made that recommendation to another Hound (and it *does* work), but the pan warped badly.

                                                                                              Also, did you know that you can make your own spats from cooked-without-uttensils hashbrowns?

                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 03:52 PM

                                                                                                Hi Kaleo,

                                                                                                I remember that incident well. It happened just at the time I was buying my FB pan, IIRC. It's not something I'm likely to forget, but please go right on reminding me and everyone else. It's one of those life lessons that bears repeating. Especially with some people wanting to use a converter disk. Personally, I say if you're going induction, just do it. That's just me.

                                                                                                Spats? I don't know what those are, except shellfish spawn and shoe covers. I want to learn about anything that can be made from hash browns!

                                                                                  2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 01:45 PM

                                                                                    I have both of those Proline skillets. I had to choose only one, I would get the 11" model.

                                                                                    I can always cook less in a pan that's a little too large but, what do you do with an overfilled pan (I don't like to cook in batches and prefer to do it all at once)? The 11" skillet also has the helper handle which comes in handy when it's bit heavy for one hand.

                                                                                    Both skillets are well balanced with those great handles. They are heavy but, they are a lot easier to handle than a Lodge cast iron skillet of similar size and weight for example. And, the welded handles make them very easy to hand wash since you don't have to work around the rivets like you do with other pans.

                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                      k
                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:28 PM

                                                                                      "(I don't like to cook in batches and prefer to do it all at once)"

                                                                                      I'm precisely the same way.

                                                                                      "Both skillets are well balanced with those great handles."

                                                                                      Do you find any of the Atlantis or Proline pots/pans to be unbalanced at all?

                                                                                      "They are heavy but, they are a lot easier to handle than a Lodge cast iron skillet of similar size and weight for example."

                                                                                      Thank you for writing this, I was curious about this. Very useful information.

                                                                                      "And, the welded handles make them very easy to hand wash since you don't have to work around the rivets like you do with other pans."

                                                                                      That is actually one of my favourite features of Demeyere, it's part of why I can't wait for them.

                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                        DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 08:34 PM

                                                                                        Sid,

                                                                                        Thanks. Somehow I thought you'd come down in favor of the larger pan. My first instinct is to agree and go for the 11", but I realize that I've got no idea which pan size I use most. I'll have to pay some attention to that. I know it's not 12", but can't say if my 9" pans see more use than the 10" ones.

                                                                                        I'm really glad to know the balance is there in the skillets. I have to agree about the handles, they're genius.

                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                          k
                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 09:32 PM

                                                                                          This is exactly how I'm working to figure out what to by myself. I'm looking at my habits and seeing what I use when and why.

                                                                                          I'm glad you like the handles so much.

                                                                                    2. re: Sid Post
                                                                                      k
                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                      I noticed and I will be!

                                                                                      Looking at all of the Demeyere my last real choice is me assessing my personal needs on which fry pan sizes I'm going to buy. Oddly enough that's the last real decision I need to make, no matter what I am buying multiple though!

                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                        omotosando Aug 17, 2013 11:03 PM

                                                                                        "on which fry pan sizes to buy"

                                                                                        I have a 7.5", 9.5" and 11" stainless steel fry pans (the 11" is the Proline). I usually cook for one, but I like leftovers. I get the least use from the 7.5" pan. (If I'm making an omelette or scrambled eggs, I use an aluminum pan devoted only to that purpose - the Rudolph Stanish omelet pan which I found on eBay after someone on this Board recommended it, and which I love).

                                                                                        If I were you, I would buy the 9.5" and 11" Prolines and skip the smaller one for now. The 9.5" will be your workhorse, but even as a single person I get a lot of use out of the 11" Proline. I love pan-roasted vegetables, which always calls for lying the vegetables in a single layer and the 11" Proline is perfect for that so you don't have to do it in batches. It's also great for wilting a bunch of greens. I almost sent the 11" Proline back when I got it because I didn't realize how big it was, but I actually use it quite a bit.

                                                                                        I don't have a lot of storage space in my kitchen and my pot rack is full with other pots, so I just keep my three stainless steel frying pans stacked up, one on top of the other, on one of my burners.

                                                                                        1. re: omotosando
                                                                                          k
                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 06:59 PM

                                                                                          “If I'm making an omelette or scrambled eggs, I use an aluminum pan devoted only to that purpose”

                                                                                          I’ve actually been deciding lately what I want to cook eggs in; I don’t cook them often, but when I do I cook a lot of them. I still haven’t decided what works best for my style, there are a lot of choices.

                                                                                          I’m actually leaning towards the 9.4” Proline, I think you’re right about how much of a workhorse it’s going to be (Even for me). It seems the right middle size to do a lot of things, like small amounts of searing and veg and things. I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter). I like the ascetic of the flat bottom and the high sides and I like how it will reduce mess when I’m frying things in it. I also don’t like frying batch after batch of things and the 4.2 quart has a lot of flat surface area for me to work with and reduce my batch numbers (I could cook up the sides of the larger fry pans, but it just isn’t my style; even though Demeyere designed them very well and made a lot of incredibly efficient use there).

                                                                                          “I don't have a lot of storage space in my kitchen and my pot rack is full with other pots, so I just keep my three stainless steel frying pans stacked up, one on top of the other, on one of my burners.”

                                                                                          It is always nice to do that, because then they are very easy to grab!

                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                            DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 08:39 PM

                                                                                            KPD,

                                                                                            <I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter).>

                                                                                            I'm seeing a lot of cooks make the same choice lately, for exactly the reasons you listed. From new brides to people looking to pare down to the essentials, I think sauté pans may be the new black. ;)

                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                              k
                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 09:40 PM

                                                                                              Really? I wonder why.

                                                                                              Black has always been fashionable (Me saying this would be funnier if you knew more about me: besides shoes and some uncommon accessories I tend to wear all black and I’m not overly concerned with fashion).

                                                                                              I actually figured out I liked this style when I bought some Calphalon Tri-Ply and I was trying to (As you put it) pare down to the essentials, the 5.5 quart sauté pan is perfect for me in a lot of ways (The flat surface of the pan is 12 inches being one of the reasons).

                                                                                            2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                              Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 09:15 PM

                                                                                              "I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter). I like the ascetic of the flat bottom and the high sides and I like how it will reduce mess when I’m frying things in it. I also don’t like frying batch after batch of things and the 4.2 quart has a lot of flat surface area for me to work with and reduce my batch numbers (I could cook up the sides of the larger fry pans, but it just isn’t my style; even though Demeyere designed them very well and made a lot of incredibly efficient use there)."

                                                                                              For non-acidic cooking, I would opt for the DeBuyer Mineral "country pan". It is about 1/4 the cost and will hold more heat on a weak electric coil. I would then consider the money I saved for the larger skillet or a different pan from the Atlantis line. I have the 32cm country pan and its sides are about 3 1/2 inches high and the sides flare a little to allow moisture to escape.

                                                                                              The country pan at ~$90 plus the 11" Proline/Atlantis skillet at $200 is about $100 less than the Atlantis saute pan.

                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                k
                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:07 PM

                                                                                                I completely see what you are saying and agree that in every was it’s logical and makes more sense to do and for most people it is certainly the correct answer, I’m really glad you wrote this so people can read it and know that there is this specific option out there (Especially a much much more affordable one, which is always important). For me though, I prefer to have less pans and ones that do a lot of multitasking, I like working with this type/shape of pan (The aesthetic pleases me and the way that it works with my body and cooking style), and I tend to cook a fair amount of acidic food or often deglaze with it.

                                                                                                I am going to miss out on the heat retention and the extra moisture escaping ability, but I will have what I personally work well with.

                                                                                                I’m also openly admittedly terrible at seasoning things and doing the proper up keep of things that need it and this is certainly a factor of why this is not an option for me (At this time and possibly even in the future).

                                                                                                I hope you understand that I know that you pose a perfect option, that involves better cookery, and I don’t want you to feel in any way that I even disagree, but it just isn’t for me; I’m sorry for that.

                                                                                                I’m also sorry if I wrote too much here, I just wanted to make it clear that I agree with you (No matter if it works for me).

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 06:39 AM

                                                                                                  "but I will have what I personally work well with."

                                                                                                  This is most important. We each need the pan that works best in our kitchen, on our stove, with our cooking techniques.

                                                                                                  "I’m also openly admittedly terrible at seasoning things and doing the proper up keep of things that need it and this is certainly a factor of why this is not an option for me (At this time and possibly even in the future)."

                                                                                                  Seasoning is a little intimidating for people who have never done it before. First timers sometimes get it wrong but, a second attempt with some coaching usually gets things sorted out properly. With a little oil/fat and heat as you cook, up keep for this style of pan is pretty low.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 11:06 AM

                                                                                                    “This is most important. We each need the pan that works best in our kitchen, on our stove, with our cooking techniques.”

                                                                                                    I wholeheartedly agree, I’m glad you wrote this. Working in the kitchen is personal and we all have different needs.

                                                                                                    “Seasoning is a little intimidating for people who have never done it before. First timers sometimes get it wrong but, a second attempt with some coaching usually gets things sorted out properly. With a little oil/fat and heat as you cook, up keep for this style of pan is pretty low.”

                                                                                                    I agree.

                                                                                        2. re: Sid Post
                                                                                          Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 01:30 PM

                                                                                          Hmmm .... I can't see to upload any photo's. Hopefully these links work from PhotoBucket.

                                                                                          http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w672/sidpost/IMG_0226_zps9713977f.jpg

                                                                                          http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w672/sidpost/IMG_0227_zps51780724.jpg

                                                                                          http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w...

                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                            k
                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:23 PM

                                                                                            That is lovely cookware, thank you for the pictures.

                                                                                            How long have you owned yours bytheway?

                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                              Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 08:32 PM

                                                                                              I got my first piece about 2 years ago. Then the Ah-Ha moment occurred and I soon added additional pieces. Now, I add new pieces as I retire older ones when I find they don't do something I want them too.

                                                                                              Hence, my desire for the "Maslin jam pot" which will retire the stock pots I have mixed feelings about. I don't make big batches of stew or chili that often but, I don't really have an ~8 quart stock pot that I'm really happy with. The Malin jam pot seems to fill this role and add more versatility with its ability to pour easier, cook seafood, and make jam with mother's blueberries. When I retire and move back to the midwest (probably Texas) I may even find myself canning tomato sauce with it.

                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                k
                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:45 PM

                                                                                                They certainly still look like new. I love hearing about how everyone has this moment with Demeyere, it's really amusing and lovely.

                                                                                                You have a good method of filling your kitchen, I'm glad it works so well.

                                                                                                The Maslin really is versatile, I hope that it provides the type of pot you need and canning tomato sauce is always fun.

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 06:27 AM

                                                                                                  "They certainly still look like new."

                                                                                                  I almost exclusively hand wash them (I think I put one skillet in the dishwasher once). This prevents the surface etching from harsh dishwasher detergents. I also haven't needed to use a scotchbrite pad or other aggressive pad to clean them which also helps. LIttle stuck bits generally come off easily with a soft plastic scrubbie.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 10:52 AM

                                                                                                    "LIttle stuck bits generally come off easily with a soft plastic scrubbie."

                                                                                                    What brand do you use?

                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                      Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 06:37 PM

                                                                                                      Whatever brand the 99 cent store has at the time. Seriously, whatever is cheap and has several in the bag. Just squeeze one in the bag to make sure there is enough material in it to hold its shape and not totally flatten out when squeezed (the really thin or loose weave ones don't work very well).

                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 06:47 PM

                                                                                                        Are you talking about the ones that look like tight donuts?

                                                                                                        There are so many different types of plastic scrubbies I'm not certain which you use.

                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                          Sid Post Aug 20, 2013 06:52 PM

                                                                                                          Yes, tight donuts. I get some that are basically like a round pad because they are woven so tight but, most are a little open and loose in the center.

                                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 20, 2013 07:44 PM

                                                                                                            (I found this picture on google).

                                                                                                            Just to confirm, is this what you mean? The nice tight versions of these?

                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                              Sid Post Aug 21, 2013 07:52 PM

                                                                                                              Yes, that looks like what I use. They work pretty good for me. If I have some little bits of stuff left behind for some reason, I let them soak in water and use the scrubbie like you show. If a little speck is stubborn, I haven't found one that would survive a fingernail.

                                                                                                              Regular dishwashing liquid and one of these serve me well when I need to wash my Demeyere. Add a small sponge to wash around the handle and you will be well equipped.

                                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 09:13 AM

                                                                                                                Perfect! Thank you for all of this, I like having specifics like this so I know that it works.

                                                                                                                I'll certainly be using all of this.

                                                                                                                By regular dishwashing liquid; you just means thinks like Joy, correct?

                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 23, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                                                                  Yes, Joy, Dawn, Palmolive, etc. The normal stuff you see at most stores (grocery, drug stores, etc.) that sell dishwashing stuff.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                    That's great to know, thank you!

                                                                                                                    Do you avoid citrus scents or do you find they are okay on the cookware?

                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                      Sid Post Aug 27, 2013 02:56 AM

                                                                                                                      Scented dish soap is a personal choice. If you rinse your cookware properly, the soap and scent is washed away. If the scent remains behind, did you really wash all the soap away?

                                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 28, 2013 04:29 PM

                                                                                                                        That's so true.

                                                                                                                        The reason I asked this was because many have said they found that citrus based dishwashing liquid to be acidic and abrasive to cookware and I wasn't certain if you found that true.

                                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                          Sid Post Aug 29, 2013 05:44 PM

                                                                                                                          I am allergic to a lot of fragrances (perfumes and cosmetics) and prefer natural products so, heavily scented laundry detergents and soaps in general are avoided.

                                                                                                                          For hand washing cookware, the soap doesn't stay on the pan long enough to matter IMHO. The scents are generally artificial so, there really isn't any acidity to any of them to worry about. Or course though, these dish washing liquids could have citric acid or other things added. Personally, I would not hesitate to use pure natural Lemon juice. It isn't acidic enough to harm my pans for the length of time I would use it; cooking or washing. Abrasive powders (Comet, Ajax, etc.) are something I don't see ever using on cookware either. I should note that I don't obsess over getting a mirror like shine on my stainless steel cookware either. If it is clean and not dingy, I'm done since I'm not trying to impress anyone with the appearance of my cookware - it's the cooking and flavor that count!!!!

                                                                                                                          Acidic cooking is the primary reason I have Stainless Steel cookware. De Buyer Mineral and various natural cast iron options have served me well. Enameled cast iron and my Demeyere Atlantis cookware let me cook without worry about tainted flavors from iron or picking up traces from previous meals due to seasoning with iron.

                                                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 05:55 PM

                                                                                                                            This was very well written out, thank you.

                                                                                                                            I think what people have been saying is that citric acid has been added to the soaps, but I can't remember. It's very true that SS can handle acidic cooking, I wonder why people are finding citric acid in soap is causing problems, as you said it shouldn't be there long enough to cause an effect.

                                                                                                                            I like your idea of using pure natural lemon juice (I like the smell of lemon in my kitchen and it's a great cleaner of many things IMO).

                                                                                                                            I normally stick to fragrance free/all natural products myself as chemicals/perfumes give me headaches or make me nauseous. I'm sorry you're so allergic.

                                                                                                                            "I should note that I don't obsess over getting a mirror like shine on my stainless steel cookware either. If it is clean and not dingy, I'm done since I'm not trying to impress anyone with my the appearance of my cookware - it's the cooking that counts!!!!"

                                                                                                                            I'm right there with you!

                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 29, 2013 06:46 PM

                                                                                                                              Sid & Dimples -

                                                                                                                              I'm now unsure where I found the citric acid info, but did see today an article from 2010 listing sodium citrate (the salt of citric acid) as the top ingredient in Finish Quantum.

                                                                                                                              The only worry I had with citric acid is that I felt it could be adding to the battery effect some of us are seeing in our DWs. The SS is fine, it's the aluminum center of the "sandwich" that's being damaged. Here are a pair of photos I took today showing the aluminum loop handle rivets on my 8 quart pot and the deterioration of the "sandwich" on my 4.5 quart saucepan.

                                                                                                                              I LOVE shiny pots and really miss my Finish Quantum. :(

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 06:57 PM

                                                                                                                                (I'm still smiling, hopefully Dimples will be coming soon).

                                                                                                                                I hope you and QT find the answer we are looking for so no more of your lovely pots and pans ever look like this again.

                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 05:55 AM

                                                                                                                                  Stainless steel stands up to pretty aggressive use and abuse without any serious damage. It is generally the materials used in laminations and coverings that suffer galvanic loss and various other issues. Stainless steel compositions can also vary which could explain some differences in cookware when comparing the premium stainless brands to cheaper imports.

                                                                                                                                  Weak acids and galvanic action will certainly marr and wear away aluminum. I use modern dishwashing powders and liquids in the dishwasher on plates, glasses, and silverware I don't care about. Ceramics and glass hold up well with no issues so far. Plastic drinkware loses the graphics pretty easily so, I try to hand wash those (mainly the no "sweat" double wall drink glasses). Cheap silverware is basically disposable so as it gets lost at work, occasionally new pieces come in to "freshen things up" over time.

                                                                                                                                  Dishwashers and their soaps both are generally pretty aggressive and harsh so, I am pretty picky about what I subject to their "evil intentions" <insert evil laugh here>

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                    "I am pretty picky about what I subject to their "evil intentions" <insert evil laugh here>"

                                                                                                                                    This made me laugh, you're almost as silly as Duffy!

                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                      Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 07:43 PM

                                                                                                                                      I'm glad you got a chuckle out of that. Threads like this can get overly serious at times so, a little humor is in order occasionally.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 08:14 PM

                                                                                                                                        "Threads like this can get overly serious at times so"

                                                                                                                                        I know! I thought I was the only one that thought that CH can feel a bit more professional seeming then friendly conversational.

                                                                                                                                        And you really did make me laugh, it was very cute.

                                                                                        3. re: Sid Post
                                                                                          k
                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 12:56 PM

                                                                                          Thanks for the links, that’s a really nice looking pan (The Bee icon is cute too).

                                                                                          Do you find the 6 lbs is comfortable for you, or a bit heavy? I’m glad you like it so much and it works so well for your cooking style, it’s always brilliant to find something that really works for you in the kitchen (Especially with pots and pans). I can see why you’d use it for fatty ground meats; it looks like it would do the job really well and without the mess. It makes a lot of sense that you use it as a surrogate cast iron skillet. Wonderful they are.

                                                                                          The crepe pan by DeBuyer or by Demeyere? (Which one do you have/use?). When you personally aren’t using a crepe pan for searing a steak and finishing it in the oven, what is your pan of choice? What makes the DeBuyer so suitable for making homemade sweet potato chips (French fries)?

                                                                                          Sorry if I’m asking too many questions, I’m just having fun getting to know you and these brands/pans.

                                                                                          I certainly will buy the Demeyere! What do you feel the benefit DeBuyer has over the Demeyere when it comes to the mineral pans?

                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                            Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 02:19 PM

                                                                                            "Do you find the 6 lbs is comfortable for you, or a bit heavy? "

                                                                                            I guess I'm used to the weight. It also has the helper handle so, if it is full of food, I just lift it with both hands. The weight does help it stay "planted" on the burner when I'm flipping or tossing things in it. With aluminum, I always had to hold the pan with one hand and flip or toss stuff with the other but, it was light enough I could toss stuff in it. At ~6 pounds plus food weight, I'm not going to toss anything with this pan.

                                                                                            "I can see why you’d use it for fatty ground meats; it looks like it would do the job really well and without the mess. It makes a lot of sense that you use it as a surrogate cast iron skillet. Wonderful they are."

                                                                                            Yes, with the large surface area, food won't steam like it would in a smaller pan (the high sides will really hold on to moisture if you crowd things). I rarely use a splatter screen with it because most of the splatters will stay in the pan but, a real "fry" will still put a film of oil all over the stove. If I'm doing a vegetable saute or something similar where I'm moving the food a lot, it keeps everything in the pan and doesn't loose anything on the stove top.

                                                                                            "The crepe pan by DeBuyer or by Demeyere? (Which one do you have/use?). "

                                                                                            DeBuyer Mineral pans for carbon steel (iron).

                                                                                            "When you personally aren’t using a crepe pan for searing a steak and finishing it in the oven, what is your pan of choice?"

                                                                                            The runner up for me is the classic Lodge Cast Iron skillet but, the DeBuyer "fry pan" would work extremely well too. The handles on the DeBuyer pans are better than those little things on the Lodge skillets but, old habits are hard to break and I grew up with Lodge cast iron.

                                                                                            "What makes the DeBuyer so suitable for making homemade sweet potato chips (French fries)?"

                                                                                            The shape, size, and heat response. I could make sweet potato fries in almost any pan but, the DeBuyer seems to use less oil and just works better than other pans I have tried.

                                                                                            "Sorry if I’m asking too many questions, I’m just having fun getting to know you and these brands/pans."

                                                                                            No worries, shared knowledge and answering questions is good for everyone! I think we all learn from answering and asking questions and, reading the responses. With answering questions, you really learn why you do what you do. For example, why do I always grab the same pan for this task and different one for that task? What makes it better for me?

                                                                                            "I certainly will buy the Demeyere! What do you feel the benefit DeBuyer has over the Demeyere when it comes to the mineral pans?"

                                                                                            Demeyere Atlantis/Proline and DeBuyer Mineral pans are complementary to each other. I won't cook acidic things in steel or cast iron so, it's always going to be done in stainless steel. If I want to get a good sear on a piece of meat for a stew or anything similar, there is no substitute for the thermal capacity of cast iron or DeBuyer mineral pans when you are on a weak electric coil heat source. Thin stir fry meat cooks up fine in the Mineral pans but, for larger thicker cuts cast iron gets used because it stores more BTU's and retains the temperature better. The DeBuyer mineral pans have really good shapes for cooking certain things, similar to the Demeyere Atlantis pans being optimized for specific tasks.

                                                                                            Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 5 Star and DeBuyer Mineral pans are really complementary to each other and are not a replacement for the other. However, both are capable of doing the others tasks if you only had ONE pan.

                                                                                            For example, I can fry chicken or sweet potato fries or sear meat in the Demeyere skillet but, the DeBuyer mineral pans do it better on my current stove (weak burners). I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.

                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                              k
                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:53 PM

                                                                                              “The weight does help it stay "planted" on the burner when I'm flipping or tossing things in it.”

                                                                                              That is really good to know; I like it when cookware stays in place, so it doesn’t run off from me or get scratched on the bottom.

                                                                                              Your reasons for loving your country pan are the reasons why I like using sauté pans for the same exact cooking methods and foods.

                                                                                              “The handles on the DeBuyer pans are better than those little things on the Lodge skillets but, old habits are hard to break and I grew up with Lodge cast iron.”

                                                                                              Not everything in the kitchen should be efficient, I feel; I think sentimentality belongs in the kitchen. I do the same thing.

                                                                                              I agree with everything you said about questions and learning oneself with why we do.

                                                                                              “If I want to get a good sear on a piece of meat for a stew or anything similar, there is no substitute for the thermal capacity of cast iron or DeBuyer mineral pans when you are on a weak electric coil heat source.”

                                                                                              What exactly is a mineral pan and why does it have higher thermal capacity than a Demeyere?

                                                                                              “I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.”

                                                                                              Why is this true, do you feel? What makes the Demeyere better at scrambled eggs and pasta dishes?

                                                                                              Thank you for writing all of this and again for answering all of my questions.

                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 08:47 PM

                                                                                                "What exactly is a mineral pan and why does it have higher thermal capacity than a Demeyere?"

                                                                                                DeBuyer Mineral pans are the heaviest gauge pan series they make. For a weak electric coil, more iron mass means I have more heat stored for the sear. The Demeyere Atlantis pans are made from different metals and are made to cook differently. Whether this is good, better, or bad depends on what you are cooking what type of results you are trying to achieve.

                                                                                                “I can make scrambled eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.

                                                                                                Why is this true, do you feel? What makes the Demeyere better at scrambled eggs and pasta dishes?”

                                                                                                The Demeyere pans are much more responsive to heat changes. They are also more even across the entire surface (good even heat all the way to the edge of the skillet). For eggs and pasta, I'm not using high heat and I DO NOT want a huge amount of stored heat. I can bump the heat up or down and the skillet will respond pretty quick. Cast Iron or sheet iron like the DeBuyer Mineral pans are not as responsive to heat changes. Scorched pasta is terrible so if its too hot lifting it off the burner doesn't help and it will continue to scorch unless you dump it out into another pan. Plus, I don't cook tomatoes in iron.

                                                                                                "Thank you for writing all of this and again for answering all of my questions."

                                                                                                It's a pleasure. Shared knowledge helps us all. With expensive pans like these, I also want people like yourself to make the "best" decision with their hard earned money. After all, many of these pans cost more than an entire entry level set many forum members have. Buying pans like these are a significant investment for many people and a real stretch for their budgets so it is worth a lot of careful thought and discussion.

                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:21 PM

                                                                                                  “The Demeyere pans are much more responsive to heat changes.”

                                                                                                  I’m glad to hear that they are so quick to heat changes, that’s very important for some of the cooking I do. I can see why they work so well for pasta dishes and eggs.

                                                                                                  “It's a pleasure. Shared knowledge helps us all. With expensive pans like these, I also want people like yourself to make the "best" decision with their hard earned money. After all, many of these pans cost more than an entire entry level set many forum members have. Buying pans like these are a significant investment for many people and a real stretch for their budgets so it is worth a lot of careful thought and discussion.”

                                                                                                  I couldn’t agree more. That’s actually why I’m here and asking all these questions, money is always important and I don’t want to buy something and find out I could have afforded or waited to afford something of better quality/better suited to me and some day I’m going to go have to buy that better item because I didn’t know the options and have wasted all that money. I’m a research a lot, buy once type of person. I always have found that research is key and when making (As you have said) such an investment as this, I want to make certain I know I am making the best decision.

                                                                                                  Once again, thank you for writing all of this; it’s such a wealth of knowledge.

                                                                                              2. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 08:45 PM

                                                                                                Hey Sid,

                                                                                                < I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.>

                                                                                                This surprised me. Pasta dishes I get, makes sense, but eggs? I would have guessed that the Mineral would be better for any kind of eggs.

                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                  I like the responsiveness of the Demeyere. They get to temperature faster (weak electric coils) so, if things get too hot I just lift the skillet for a moment and lower the heat so the eggs cook the way I want them. Too cool, a nudge on the heat and the skillet responds nicely. My skillets are always clean so, no worries about lingering flavors from previous meals.

                                                                                                  In steel, I tend to overcook eggs in general. I'm either in a hurry and have the heat too high or, I preheat the pan too high and the eggs are overcooked before the pan cools. Then there is the issue of what I previously cooked in the pan and the little black flecks that show up in the eggs. Sometimes you want garlic or onions with your eggs but, I don't wash my De Buyer that hard so, previous meals also tend to show up with my breakfast eggs.

                                                                                                  The Demeyere skillets simply work better for me and fit my lifestyle better.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                    DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 06:29 AM

                                                                                                    Sid,

                                                                                                    As always, thanks for letting me inside your cooking processes. About 95% of my crepe pan use is eggs, pancakes, breakfast sausage and grilled sandwiches. It only gets any kind of scrubbing after stuff like sausage, otherwise it's just wiped with a paper towel, not even rinsed. Any flavors left in the pan are going to be largely complementary to the eggs. I also have quite a bit of patience with eggs, and learned early on that my radiant heats well on 5, but I crank it right down to 3-4 to cook the eggs, often turning it off completely once they're about 2/3 cooked.

                                                                                                    What about stickiness? Scrambles are notoriously sticky. Do you fine DM less sticky than other clad SS?

                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                      Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 06:55 PM

                                                                                                      Warm eggs aren't nearly as tenacious about sticking compared to ones straight out of the fridge. Low heat and warm eggs, milk, etc. work well for me. If I can let things sit on the counter for an hour (phone calls to mom in the morning, first coffee, etc.) things are pretty easy. If I'm in a hurry, I "cheat" a little with a spritz of very light tasting olive oil. I won't argue that my Demeyere skillets are better than the classic teflon options but, it certainly isn't far behind as long as you don't don't burn things to a crisp.

                                                                                                      Compared to the Original "professional" Calphalon hard anodized aluminum, the Demeyere skillets are fool proof. I think I even got a stick of butter to stick once in that skillet (just kidding of course)!

                                                                                                      Gentle heat with no "carry-over" heat is the key to success.

                                                                                                      Also, "skillet scrambles" are very easy and near foolproof. My mom was awestruck when she came out the first time to see me when I lived in Huntsville, Alabama. For me it was a pretty normal, average, ordinary all-in-one skillet scramble. I started with a light swirl of olive oil and added whatever vegetables were getting ready to age out and a few others that piqued my interest and maybe a little diced leftover ham. When everything was nearly done, the scrambled egg mixture went in with very gentle heat as I turned and lifted things (to let the "wet" eggs pour through) with the spatula. Fresh local farm raised produce will blow away most people when it is prepared simply - I simply began to take it for granted because I used it daily. I'm sure the practice helped too since I lived there for nearly three years.

                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                        DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 08:05 PM

                                                                                                        <Compared to the Original "professional" Calphalon hard anodized aluminum, the Demeyere skillets are fool proof. I think I even got a stick of butter to stick once in that skillet (just kidding of course)!>

                                                                                                        I had an original Scanpan HA pan and know exactly what you mean. Initially I liked it, but before long here was nothing remotely non-stick about it. At that point I was really missing my lost LC stuff, which was much better, even the saucepans.

                                                                                                      2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 07:07 PM

                                                                                                        "What about stickiness? Scrambles are notoriously sticky. Do you fine DM less sticky than other clad SS?"

                                                                                                        Subjectively, I find their finish to have merit beyond any marketing claims. It won't fix horrible technique but, I feel it is more forgiving for someone with a glimpse of good technique that could still use some fine tuning. A cold egg in a skillet that is too hot will stick but, not nearly as bad as it will in some of my previous pans.

                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 08:08 PM

                                                                                                          <A cold egg in a skillet that is too hot will stick but, not nearly as bad as it will in some of my previous pans.>

                                                                                                          This is good. I've easily cooked eggs in my Cal. TP, no problem. I do a faux season first if I don't want to use much fat, otherwise I'm pretty generous with butter in it. And when we're talking eggs, that's not a bad thing. ;)

                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 08:28 PM

                                                                                                            "I do a faux season first if I don't want to use much fat"

                                                                                                            How do you do that?

                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 10:08 PM

                                                                                                              1. Heat the pan.
                                                                                                              2. Add oil.
                                                                                                              3. As soon as oil begins to smoke, take pan off heat.
                                                                                                              4. Let pan cool down.
                                                                                                              5. Pour out oil and wipe pan.
                                                                                                              5. Heat pan, add just a bit of fat and cook away.

                                                                                                              This is a great trick to make stainless behave like non-stick.
                                                                                                              It's been said the pan will remain "seasoned" until you wash it with soap, but I've never tested that. I always clean my stainless when I'm done cooking. Here's a video demo:

                                                                                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1376IT...

                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 10:10 PM

                                                                                                                That's a great trick, thank you!

                                                                                            2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 07:04 PM

                                                                                              KPD - Finest Cookware is a Canadian outfit, which probably accounts for the country re-direct. I purchased 2 pans from them, and had an issue that was entirely my fault. Their customer service rep worked with me to resolve it, to a good conclusion. They've got numerous fans on these boards, for good reason.

                                                                                              <It looks like a flat bottomed conical, how interesting.> Yes, it does. It appears to be an innocent little pan, but looks are deceiving. It's a monster!

                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                k
                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:26 PM

                                                                                                Oh, that makes a lot of sense about the link. I'm glad to hear they are so reputable, I've made a note of it so I know they are a good source to use.

                                                                                                How is it a monster? (Looks are often deceiving).

                                                                      2. re: omotosando
                                                                        Sid Post Jul 10, 2013 05:51 AM

                                                                        "Also do you have any suggestions for lids for Proline?"

                                                                        Personally, I never understood having a dedicated lid for a skillet. On the rare occasions where I need one, I just borrow a lid from a similar size pot or pan.

                                                                      3. re: omotosando
                                                                        Sid Post Jul 10, 2013 05:55 AM

                                                                        "Is the Proline deep enough to simmer chicken thighs? "

                                                                        For big chicken thighs, you need something deeper IMHO. This where a Saute pan or something similar comes into play though, there are some dedicated "deep" skillets you could use with a good lid from another similar size pan.

                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                          k
                                                                          kimbers324 Jul 10, 2013 06:37 AM

                                                                          My Demeyere skillet is 2 1/4 inches high on the sides (measured from the outside - counter to top of side). This is the same as my Viking 9.5 and 11 inch skillets, and my Viking 3 qt saute. The sides of the skillets are slghtly rounded at the base and slightly sloped, but I I have seen pans with more of a flare on the sides. I think they are quite deep, but I'm not sure about simmering chicken thighs. These pans are also about as deep as my Le Creuset 3.5 qt. enameled cast iron braiser. My Cuisinart MCP saute is a bit deeper, but not as large in diameter. Lodge has a great, inexpensive plain cast iron deep fry pan (when it comes with the lid, they call it a chicken fryer). It is on my list!

                                                                          1. re: kimbers324
                                                                            omotosando Jul 12, 2013 03:52 PM

                                                                            My 11" Demeyere Proline arrived.

                                                                            I don't find it too heavy (of course, I lifted it without food), but it certainly is huge -- larger than I visualized. For those of you who have both the 9.5 inch skillets and the 11 inch, I'm curious when you pull out the 9.5 and when the 11 inch. I had envisioned the 11 inch for frittatas, but on viewing the pan that seems like one humongous frittata.

                                                                            By the way, the 11" does seem deep enough to me to braise and simmer chicken thighs.

                                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                                              l
                                                                              laraffinee Jul 13, 2013 08:14 AM

                                                                              I love the 11" for sautéing individual vegetables for a combined vegetable dish because there is no crowding and the even heat is great. As you know or will find out, the sides of the pan have the same level of heat as the bottom, so this has a great effect on the sautéing process - less mushy results and somewhat of a "searing" effect on the vegetables which is wonderful for the flavor.

                                                                              1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                omotosando Jul 14, 2013 11:04 PM

                                                                                Thanks larafinee. I was going to send the 11" Demeyere back because it just seemed too large for anything I would ever cook, but after reading your post, I decided to keep it. And today I acquired a big bunch of dandelion greens at the local farmer's market and boy was I happy that I kept the pan. The pan is perfect for wilting a large amount of greens -- no crowding, no cooking in batches.

                                                                                And the pan cleaned up like a dream. I can't believe the years I wasted cooking in and caring for Le Creuset cast iron, when it all could have been so easy with Demeyere.

                                                                                In a bit of penny pinching, I ordered last week a 9.5 inch Sitram Catering skillet. I hope I won't regret the penny pinching and not springing for the 9.5 inch Proline.

                                                                                1. re: omotosando
                                                                                  Sid Post Jul 16, 2013 06:27 AM

                                                                                  I would have flipped the purchase around the other way since a 9.5" skillet is used more often than the larger 11" model.

                                                                                  I don't know what your 9.5" skillet cost but, at a $150 delivered the Proline 5*/Atlantis was an easy choice for me.

                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                    omotosando Jul 16, 2013 10:27 AM

                                                                                    You know I think you are right Sid Post. I just saw the 9.5 Demeyere Proline on backorder at Metrokitchen for $150. Strangely the smaller 7.9 is $190. I think I will eat the postage and return the Sitram unopened when it arrives. I know for stainless steel I can't do better than Demeyere so why experiment.

                                                                                    I'm also tempted to replace my very old De Buyer 7.5 inch stainless frypan. It's not a bad pan and I was going to make do, but after Demeyere trying to clean under the rivets on the De Buyer drives me crazy. Once you have used rivetless pans, it is hard to go back.

                                                                                    1. re: omotosando
                                                                                      l
                                                                                      laraffinee Jul 18, 2013 09:30 AM

                                                                                      That is how I acquired all of the Demeyere that I have. First, the 9.5 Proline fry pan. Loved it - decided to get the 11'...Loved it too...etc. etc. ...and I have cookware that I am thrilled with. I do not buy sets, as I have yet to find one that is exactly what I would pick, so this piece by piece acquisition has worked best for me. No regret purchases and such, but happy choices.

                                                                              2. re: omotosando
                                                                                Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 02:40 PM

                                                                                "By the way, the 11" does seem deep enough to me to braise and simmer chicken thighs."

                                                                                I think it really depends on the size of the chicken pieces in question. Small thighs, no problem. However, I've gotten some really big thighs that wouldn't fit without making a huge mess as they cook.

                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 09:00 PM

                                                                                  <I think it really depends on the size of the chicken pieces in question. Small thighs, no problem. However, I've gotten some really big thighs that wouldn't fit without making a huge mess as they cook.>

                                                                                  This is what happens when misguided humans attempt to teach chickens to skate and ride little bicycles. Sure, the videos are fun to watch on Youtube, but those poor chickens! Their thighs get huge, and someday when they've grown too old to strap on the skates, what kind of reward do they get for the hours of laughter they've provided? They end up in a butcher's case, where people see those monster thighs and think "I've gotta get me some of those", never realizing the mess they'll have later that night.

                                                                                  Really, people? Is this what it's come to? Monster chicken thighs? Oil everywhere? Be a clean cook. Don't teach chickens to skate or ride bicycles.

                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 10:29 PM

                                                                                    ROFL ...... :-D

                                                                                    And it brings back fond memories of "drumettes" in Huntsville, Alabama. Little pygmy chickens there.......

                                                                          2. re: omotosando
                                                                            b
                                                                            bombadilio Jul 11, 2013 07:59 AM

                                                                            What is the difference between the tin lining with Mauviel(or copper based) vs the copper - stainless steel?

                                                                            1. re: bombadilio
                                                                              kaleokahu Jul 11, 2013 11:28 AM

                                                                              The answer(s) to this question is/are to be found in countless threads here, and in exhaustive length and detail.

                                                                              Basically, though, the practical differences are:

                                                                              (1) You cannot preheat tin-lined pans empty over 437F; SS-you can (but you should still not get SS-lined super hot);

                                                                              (2) You should not use metal utensils or harsh abrasives in tin-lined, because it wears away the lining; you *can* use metal in SS-lined;

                                                                              (3) Tin is a better heat conductor than SS;

                                                                              (4) A tinned pan can be relined (it is pricey), whereas a SS-pan cannot (but it possibly might be tinned);

                                                                              (5) A tin lining will discolor with heat, acidic foods and age. This does not affect its use. SS linings generally don't discolor, or they may be scoured back to looking shiny.

                                                                              (6) The thickest (and IMO, best) copper pans are vintage tinned pans, and with rare exceptions are no longer in production. Virtually all SS-lined pans are <3mm thick.

                                                                              Hope that helps. Now do your homework!

                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                      4. re: kimbers324
                                                                        l
                                                                        lorabreeze Aug 1, 2013 01:25 PM

                                                                        I have had the 3 QT Viking Saute pan for 13 years. I have used gas and always really liked it till I got an induction cooktop (where I need a flat pan). But sadly, my pan spins and spins on my flat cooktop. I called to see if Viking guaranteed it not to warp....but, of course not.

                                                                        1. re: lorabreeze
                                                                          kaleokahu Aug 1, 2013 04:40 PM

                                                                          Yep, anything that warps even a little bit is going to be a problem on induction and other glass tops.

                                                                          1. re: lorabreeze
                                                                            tanuki soup Aug 2, 2013 01:21 AM

                                                                            Putting a couple of sheets of old newspaper (or paper towels, or a silicone mat) under the saute pan during cooking may solve your spinning problem. I almost always cook on newspaper -- catches spatter, prevents the pots and pans from sliding around, and gets crumpled up after cooking and used to scrub the glass top clean.

                                                                            1. re: tanuki soup
                                                                              kaleokahu Aug 13, 2013 04:43 PM

                                                                              Yeah, use a shim, preferably not a matchbook.

                                                                        2. l
                                                                          laraffinee Jul 9, 2013 08:31 PM

                                                                          I have about seven different Demeyere Atlantis pieces that I bought piece by piece rather than a set - started with the Proline frypans, then two sizes of the sauté, saucier, and then pots. I love this cookware and the results of cooking with it.

                                                                          The Pawson is a design line - I think same construction as Atlantis, so you are paying for the look.

                                                                          I have tin lined copper, but none of it is Mauviel. I was never impressed with the construction.

                                                                          I had All-Clad; I guess it was the original, and I thought it was a whole lot of nothing. I gave it all away to a monastery kitchen that needed some cookware.

                                                                          7 Replies
                                                                          1. re: laraffinee
                                                                            omotosando Jul 9, 2013 09:16 PM

                                                                            I am curious. When do you pull out the tin lined copper and when the Demeyere? I have both and am just learning to cook seriously, so I am still working out what is the best pan for what job.

                                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                                              l
                                                                              laraffinee Jul 10, 2013 05:47 PM

                                                                              Tin lined copper (several sizes and types of pans) comes out for: - fish, risotto, occasional polenta, smaller batches of caramelized onions, delicate sauces (I got a silicone wisk by Le Creuset to use in it) and very often to reheat food. I do not have a microwave because I can not stand how the taste and texture of food is affected by it, so I often reheat in a 9" tin lined skillet - I think it is the french skillet style because it is deeper than most.

                                                                              1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                omotosando Jul 10, 2013 07:00 PM

                                                                                I'm curious. Why reheat in tin lined copper versus stainless steel? I agree that microwave is horrible for reheating, although I often do it out of laziness if I don't want to wash a pan.

                                                                                One of the reasons I'm considering acquiring more stainless steel is that I think it might help break me of my microwave reheating habit. Taking out the nice heavy copper seems like overkill to reheat something.

                                                                                1. re: omotosando
                                                                                  kaleokahu Jul 10, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                  Hi, omotosando:

                                                                                  I'm curious about your curiosity... Why would it be overkill to take out the heavy copper if you have it?

                                                                                  Other than high heat searing (read: blackened or nearly so), IMO heavy tinned copper is what should be brought out. The only real question to my way of thinking is what will be the marginal rate of improvement, and again that really only applies at the decision *whether* to spend. It may not be worth paying a premium price for a large, thick copper stockpot because the marginal improvement over most alternatives isn't large and the price differential is huge.

                                                                                  Re: reheating... Yesterday I reheated a mushroom soup in a thick 20cm tinned sauteuse evasee/Windsor on gas, and the soup came to a simmer simultaneously everywhere it contacted the pan, floor and walls alike. Contrast this with a disk-bottomed pan, where the heat is effectively applied *only* at the pan floor; the difference is reheating in 3 dimensions vs. 2, and over a much larger surface area. With thin liquids, the difference is not great, but with viscous liquids, cream bases and emulsions, it is.

                                                                                  Microwaving is, by dint of the stirrers, reflections and radiolucency, 3-dimensional, too. But because the waves only penetrate a relatively short distance into the food in strength, by the time the center is reheated (largely by conduction) to the point of being palatably warm, the periphery is often limp or mushy for having been overdone. Going directly from icebox to MW doesn't help, either.

                                                                                  Wahine has partially converted me on MW'ing certain things. For instance, "steaming" a vegetable serving for 2 for exactly (I'm not kidding) 1:23 at full power on most MWs' 100% setting usually produces decent results in our kitchens. But I'm with you: I really hate reheating most things in the MW.

                                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                    omotosando Jul 10, 2013 11:24 PM

                                                                                    Hi Kaleo. I am one of those crazy people who shines the copper after every use to keep it gleaming so that can effect whether I pull out the copper pan to reheat a small portion of leftovers. Also ever since I discolored the beautiful new tinning on a copper saute pan by doing a long vinegar based simmer (I don't know what I was thinking), I have become selective as to what I make in my copper. In exactly one cooking session, the pan went from pristine to the point where I am wondering if I should have it retinned again (I had bought it used and the person from whom I bought it had just retinned it and done a beautiful job). Perhaps I should be less fussy about what my cookwear looks like!

                                                                                    1. re: omotosando
                                                                                      l
                                                                                      laraffinee Jul 11, 2013 07:24 AM

                                                                                      Hi Omo,

                                                                                      Well...my cookware serves me and not the other way around. I take excellent care of all of the different types I have, but for example, my seasoned carbon steel looks like hell, but handles high heat like a dream. I love to reheat in my copper cookware - the cookware is there for me to cook with. The Demeyere is probably the easiest maintanence of them all and I love it for stews, sautés etc. Copper is my gentle flower- it cooks the gentle things like fish etc. and reheats the best of all.

                                                                                      1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                        omotosando Jul 11, 2013 11:25 PM

                                                                                        Hi Kaleo. In your honor, I took out my small heavy copper saucepan today to reheat some fava beans. :) Afterwards, I did smear the bottom with Bar Keeper's Friend when I washed it. I know some people say Bar Keeper's Friend scratches copper, but I haven't found that. I just put some in my hand and rub my hand on the bottom of the pan and then up the sides and rinse and the pan stays nice and shiny.

                                                                                        Still, the right pan for the right job. I just acquired a Sitram Profisserie 1.69 quart saucepan with pouring lip
                                                                                        http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000... for the specific purpose of simmering Greek mountain tea on the stovetop (that's how the nice Greek man at the farmer's market told me to prepare it). The pan was perfect (trying to pour from a heavy copper saucepan into a tea cup not so much fun and the same would have been true from a heavy Demeyere saucepan).

                                                                                        I am learning that the best equipped kitchen is one that is mixed and matched and depends upon what the cook likes to cook. Not everyone would have a need for a lightweight stainless saucepan with pouring lip, but it is an invaluable addition to my kitchen. From reading a lot of people also use that kind of pan to make chai.

                                                                          2. Chemicalkinetics Jul 10, 2013 05:38 AM

                                                                            I like the Demeyere approach. On the other hand, I am not an advocator for buying "set"

                                                                            77 Replies
                                                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                              l
                                                                              longtimecook Aug 15, 2013 01:06 PM

                                                                              Bomb,

                                                                              I've used just about every kind of pan over the years. In large kitchens (currently 1900 per meal) and in my own. Minus copper. I absolutely love the Demeyere. I have several pieces from Atlantis line. They are heavy, no doubt about it. The 11 incher. I can hold it up just for a little while w/o having to put it down. It heats extremely well and evenly. ( I use induction). They also have a non stick that is holding up very very well. I use it just about everyday. Little to no fat used to cook on it. They also clean up and look like new. When the y get stained on bottom a little BKF goes a lone way. Only down side is they are expensive. But, they way I look at it, if you pay a premium and never have to replace it, its well worth the money.

                                                                              1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                k
                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 01:17 PM

                                                                                This is what I keep hearing again and again (From people that don't go for Copper).

                                                                                I haven't heard one true negative about Demeyere Atlantis/Proline pans except the expense.

                                                                                I'm completely with you, I'm happy paying the price (Hopefully on sale, but not a deal breaker) to have cookware I'll never have to replace, it is completely worth it.

                                                                                I'm also glad to read how happy you are with them, people keep saying the same things as you and I'm just getting more and more excited about owning some myself.

                                                                                I'm glad that BKF fixes the remainder of anything left on them, there is something really satisfying about owning something for years and years that looks brand new. Especially if it has easy care, what a plus.

                                                                                What do you use for eggs? The non stick? Which non stick pan do you have?

                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                  l
                                                                                  longtimecook Aug 15, 2013 08:01 PM

                                                                                  Yea, I use the controlinduc 10 in (nonstick) for eggs and lot of quick cooking things like bacon. Although, I wish I had bought the 12 inch. Strips of bacon don't fit. They go up the side of the pan. Although I do have birthday coming up lol I have bought most pieces if not all on sale. In fact my most recent purchases were made at 70% off in a place in Santa Fe. They were discontinuing the line at the store. $600 for four pieces and one was the 8 quart pot which I think is $400 not on sale!

                                                                                   
                                                                                  1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                    k
                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 09:02 PM

                                                                                    I'll look into getting a Controlinduc for eggs, I'm happy to know they clean so well. I hope you get a bigger pan for your birthday, I have trouble fitting bacon in my current pans as well.

                                                                                    That is an amazing deal, I'm a little jealous, no one around me carries Demeyere, let alone has huge sales on it; this is the second time I heard of a mad Demeyere lucky close out. The 8.5 qt stock pot is $370 without a sale, you got an amazing deal.

                                                                                    Your set looks beautiful, you weren't exaggerating when you said they cleaned to the point of looking new.

                                                                                    1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 05:50 AM

                                                                                      longtimecook,

                                                                                      That's some good-looking cookware. Is your induction unit a range or a cooktop over a wall oven?

                                                                                      Does your bacon not cook on the side of the pan? In a DM video, their chef is shown searing a steak on the side of a frypan on an induction cooktop. Unfortunately, that steak isn't shown beyond the trick shot with it hanging on the side, so we've no idea how it compares to the steak seared in the bottom of the pan. I've been wondering how hot the sides really get, and if the pan conducts well enough for them to stay hot when food is added.

                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                        l
                                                                                        longtimecook Aug 16, 2013 10:39 AM

                                                                                        Funny thing I was passing through Santa Fe on vacation and stayed there two days. Went to the mall and was like !!!!. My wife says, "you didn't get more" God I wanted to but it would've been over $1K easily. I clean them by hand and use BKF when stained.

                                                                                        Duffy,
                                                                                        Bacon does cook on the side very well. Call me wierd but I like the bacon to lay flat when I put in the pan as it would on a flat top. The induction is over a range oven and has a one of those small ovens at the bottom of it. So it can cook things in the bottom drawer as well. All pieces are Electrolux, Microwave, range, dishwasher and refrigerator. if you guys wanna see some pics I will glady take some. I like the stainless because I am so used to it. Working in large kitchen my whole life.

                                                                                        1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                          k
                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 10:55 AM

                                                                                          What a lucky sale you hit, that's just mad and brilliant hearing about it.

                                                                                          "Call me wierd but I like the bacon to lay flat when I put in the pan as it would on a flat top."

                                                                                          I'm the same, sometimes aesthetic triumphs.

                                                                                          1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                            DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 12:22 PM

                                                                                            longtimecook,

                                                                                            <Bacon does cook on the side very well.>

                                                                                            Well, that's that, then. This pan really does live up to DM's claims. I'll have to get one, and Dude will not be happy at the cost. I'll put the blame on you and your bacon. See what you've done? I hope you're proud of yourself. ;)

                                                                                            <Went to the mall and was like !!!!.>

                                                                                            You're in my wheelhouse. Tomorrow I'm taking a road trip to St. Pete to the closest SLT to pick up a DM I5 3.5 qt "essential" (saucier) pan. I'm getting it now, before my induction range, because it's on a hellacious sale, and I've got an extra 15% off. Most people would have it shipped and avoid the long drive, but I want to touch it and well, you know, before I buy it. Plus it's an excuse to go to SLT. I'm such a cookware whore. *sigh*

                                                                                            BTW - what is with all of these "Essential" pans? Really, they were all Rondeaux, Deep Frypans and Sauciers a few years ago. Silly.

                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                              k
                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 12:33 PM

                                                                                              "I'll put the blame on you and your bacon. See what you've done? I hope you're proud of yourself. ;)"

                                                                                              It's bacon, it's worth it.

                                                                                              And I'm just as happy as you are about the pan living up to DM's claims.

                                                                                              How much is SLT putting it on sale for? (Or am I reading this wrong and the only money you are getting off is your 15%?)

                                                                                              I'm like you, I prefer to see things in person myself, but my closest SLT is a ways away, in a different state, and also has sales tax when mine doesn't.

                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 01:36 PM

                                                                                                KPD -

                                                                                                It's regularly $240, on sale for $150. I get 15% more this weekend for being an email subscriber, for an out-the-door total of $136 + change. Not shabby. A poster on Gardenweb mentioned that SLT periodically puts different pieces of I5 on sale, but never all at once, IIRC.

                                                                                                http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO...

                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 01:41 PM

                                                                                                  That's amazing, when you get it you'll have to test it out and post here what you think.

                                                                                                  Enjoy your new pan!

                                                                                                  What does IIRC mean?

                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                    DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 06:24 PM

                                                                                                    KPD -

                                                                                                    Thanks, I'll be sure to post a review.

                                                                                                    IIRC = If I Recall Correctly :)

                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:19 PM

                                                                                                      You're welcome, I'm excited to read it. I hope the pan is a winner!

                                                                                                      Oh, thank you and I'm certain you're right about them putting different ones on sale periodically, instead of ever all at once.

                                                                                              2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                l
                                                                                                longtimecook Aug 16, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                Very nice and good luck getting the pan. Let us know how you like it. It's sorta a fatal mistake. Once you buy one "they" have you lol. I like my saucier alot use it for a number of things. Gravies, sauces, and I cook spaghetti in it too. Works out real well.

                                                                                                1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 02:07 PM

                                                                                                  "Once you buy one "they" have you lol."

                                                                                                  I keep hearing that about Demeyere pans. It's really funny, everyone seems to get drawn in the same way.

                                                                                                  I was trying to ask laraffinee this, but I was curious about your experience too: she says the sauciers do not heat all the way up to the top edge (Like the Proline pans do), where do you find that the saucier heats up to?

                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                    longtimecook Aug 18, 2013 05:33 AM

                                                                                                    Wow, you know I've never actually checked. I will check today and see. I've never noticed how how the top edge got in relation to the bottom which I will not touch lol. Could be true though as the pan is around 4 inch high.

                                                                                                    1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:00 PM

                                                                                                      I'm glad you won't be touching near the bottom!

                                                                                                      Thank you for checking this out for me, it's really useful to know.

                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 09:00 PM

                                                                                                        There are two basic construction techniques for the Demeyere Atlantis line. Some are basically a modified disc bottom and others are a muti-layer pan all the way to the edge.

                                                                                                        Do you want a pan that only heats from the bottom or one that heats on the sides too?

                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:26 PM

                                                                                                          So, unlike laraffinee, do you find that the conical does in fact heat all the way to the top like the Proline pans do?

                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                            Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 06:22 AM

                                                                                                            I would say it is a little subjective. The sidewalls are thinner at the edge (The special 7-layer material up to the edge is 3 to 3.3mm thick and evenly distributes the heat from the bottom to the edge) than the skillets (Made completely of 4,8mm/0.19” 7-layer material they fry up to the edge) so, the skillet is more even edge to edge as it should be. The Saucier (http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content/products/large/16465.jpg) heats the side wall, unlike the Saucepan (http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content...) which only heats from the base.

                                                                                                            I hope this makes sense. In summary:
                                                                                                            1) Saucepan, heating from the base only
                                                                                                            2) Conical Sauté/Sauteuse, good heating from the base and sides
                                                                                                            3) Proline 5* skillets, very even (best) edge to edge but, low sides as well

                                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 10:50 AM

                                                                                                              So, do you think the reason the conical may not heat up to the edge as hot as the skillet is because the thinner material has less heat retention, creating a more gentle heating through the pan when it is full (Of liquid)?

                                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                Sid Post Aug 19, 2013 07:16 PM

                                                                                                                Yes, if it was as thick as the skillet heat would carry farther and better. I suspect the thinner material at the edge has to do with stamping and drawing the pan shape out of a flat piece of material. The skillets don't draw or work the sheet material nearly as much which is why they are thicker at the edge.

                                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 08:15 PM

                                                                                                                  "Yes, if it was as thick as the skillet heat would carry farther and better."

                                                                                                                  This is really good to know, it's what I thought; thank you.

                                                                                                                  Edit: I didn't realise that the conical has a thinner edge and the fry pans have a thicker edge. When I was talking about thickness I was talking overall thickness in the pans in comparison to each other (Not just their edges).

                                                                                                                  Have I misread this? They have different edge thicknesses from the rest of their pan?

                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 20, 2013 07:03 PM

                                                                                                                    Ahh ... Pan height versus pan "wall" thickness or rim thickness. The conical sauteuse is about twice (plus a little more) as tall as the skillet.

                                                                                                                    The skillet "wall" thickness is greater than the conical sauteuse. As noted, if the conical sauteuse was full thickness to the rim, it would also be top heavy and weigh more overall.

                                                                                                                    The Demeyere pans are well thought out for the ways I use them. As I have posted elsewhere, I don't like All-Clad but, others swear by them as being the best ever. Some of our feelings about these pans is subjective, some is based on how we cook and use them, and the rest is based on their construction. While these pans are "right" for me, they may not be "right" for someone else just like my All-Clad experience.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 20, 2013 08:08 PM

                                                                                                                      I was actually never asking about pan height or rim thickness (Originally), but what you have said makes a lot of sense.

                                                                                                                      “As noted, if the conical sauteuse was full thickness to the rim, it would also be top heavy and weigh more overall.”

                                                                                                                      So, are you saying that a conical sauté pan’s wall thickness is thicker on the bottom of the pan and thinner at the top of the pan? I thought that the conical sauté pans by Demeyere were 3.3mm thick, whether it is the bottom thickness or the rim thickness.

                                                                                                                      “The Demeyere pans are well thought out for the ways I use them. As I have posted elsewhere, I don't like All-Clad but, others swear by them as being the best ever. Some of our feelings about these pans is subjective, some is based on how we cook and use them, and the rest is based on their construction. While these pans are "right" for me, they may not be "right" for someone else just like my All-Clad experience.”

                                                                                                                      I completely agree, as I’ve said to you before. From the way you cook in the kitchen, I’m really happy to know that these will most likely work for me as well considering how similarly we cook.

                                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 21, 2013 07:58 PM

                                                                                                                        "So, are you saying that a conical sauté pan’s wall thickness is thicker on the bottom of the pan and thinner at the top of the pan?"

                                                                                                                        I don't really have any way to measure the thickness like that. However, the feel in my hand and the way it balances suggests the base is in fact thicker than the sides which seem to thin gradually as they rise up to the rim of the pan.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 09:16 AM

                                                                                                                          I see, when I looked at their cutaways it seemed to be the same thickness (But, I've never seen the conical cutaway for very long), what you say makes a lot of sense and makes sense they would construct it that way.

                                                                                                                          This is quite interesting.

                                                                                                                2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                  kaleokahu Aug 19, 2013 08:07 PM

                                                                                                                  Hi, KPD:

                                                                                                                  Shorter distance from floor to rim, for one thing. For another, the conical sauteuses would spill if they were even close to completely full. And tapering the walls works a weight savings--many vintage first-grade saucepans were intentionally tapered for these reasons.

                                                                                                                  I'm not 100% on-board with Demeyere's philosophy on frypans. Frying bacon up the sides is OK, but it's a weird workaround, and different (dry). Frankly, it makes more sense to do a full-thickess-up-the-walls saucepan than it does a skillet, IMO.

                                                                                                                  A word on the "special 7 layers"... Other than the lining, internal core. and the ferritic base, pretty much everything else (silver) is there for reasons of *bonding*, not cooking.

                                                                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 08:25 PM

                                                                                                                    "Shorter distance from floor to rim, for one thing."

                                                                                                                    I thought that was a factor, good to know.

                                                                                                                    "For another, the conical sauteuses would spill if they were even close to completely full."

                                                                                                                    I'm sorry, I worded that wrong: I meant as full as you would comfortably fit one (I know that wasn't clear at all, sorry again).

                                                                                                                    "And tapering the walls works a weight savings--many vintage first-grade saucepans were intentionally tapered for these reasons."

                                                                                                                    What does "a weight savings" mean? I'm not certain I follow.

                                                                                                                    "I'm not 100% on-board with Demeyere's philosophy on frypans. Frying bacon up the sides is OK, but it's a weird workaround, and different (dry)."

                                                                                                                    I know what you mean, that's part of why I'm buying a large saute pan instead of a large fry pan.

                                                                                                                    "Frankly, it makes more sense to do a full-thickess-up-the-walls saucepan than it does a skillet, IMO."

                                                                                                                    Why do you feel this way? (I'm really interested to know your thoughts on this).

                                                                                                                    "A word on the "special 7 layers"... Other than the lining, internal core. and the ferritic base, pretty much everything else (silver) is there for reasons of *bonding*, not cooking."

                                                                                                                    I know, but I'm glad you wrote this because it's incredibly important for people to know and can't be said enough.

                                                                                        2. re: longtimecook
                                                                                          omotosando Aug 15, 2013 04:30 PM

                                                                                          I recently bought online a Sitram stainless steel 9 inch frying pan, which I selected because it was $50 cheaper than the Demeyere Proline. (I have the 11" Demeyere). Anyway someone on this Board said buying the Sitram was penny wise and pound foolish and I was actually planning to send it back, but I didn't get around to opening the package until after the 7 day return period had expired.

                                                                                          I haven't cooked with the Sitram yet, but just looking at it and comparing it to the Demeyere is like looking at a Chevy compared to a Rolls Royce. Taking the Sitram out of the box put ugly fingerprints everywhere and the handle is horrible compared to the Demeyere handles. I also suspect the pan isn't going to clean like the Demeyere. Like the Demeyere, it doesn't have rivets, but unlike the Demeyere which is totally smooth where the handle meets the pan, the Sitram has eight little indentations where the handle meets the pan, and I suspect grease and food is going to stick in those indentations.

                                                                                          I will report back when I cook with the Sitram, but I am really regretting I didn't pay $50 more for the Demeyere Proline.

                                                                                          1. re: omotosando
                                                                                            k
                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 04:38 PM

                                                                                            I'm sorry to hear that you didn't spring for the Demeyere, I'd love to hear what happens after you cook with it and what you find.

                                                                                            I'm glad that you at least have the 11" Proline and you are enjoying it.

                                                                                            Also, those indentations do sound worrisome, I hope you find they aren't.

                                                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                                                              k
                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 04:42 PM

                                                                                              I'm also glad you've told me the comparison of the two, not that long ago I was considering Sitram (That fully stopped), so it's nice to hear I'm making a decision I like.

                                                                                              Again, I'm sorry you got stuck with a lesser pan.

                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                omotosando Aug 15, 2013 04:54 PM

                                                                                                I also have an old 7" DeBuyer stainless steel skillet which is horrible to clean - it takes some really serious elbow grease and like half a package of Barkeepers' friend to get it clean.

                                                                                                Part of the problem with the DeBuyer is the shape - there is almost like a little groove (not quite) where the bottom of the skillet meets the side and if you should happen to have any slight crisping of oil in that area, it is just very hard to remove the brown spots from that part of the pan. The Demeyere has a much different shape which accounts for why it is easier to clean. The Sitram shape seems halfway in between the DeBuyer and the Demeyere.

                                                                                                1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 04:59 PM

                                                                                                  I count myself very lucky for not buying DeBuyer, I'm sorry that is such a mess. Half a package of BKF is just mad, not to mention your arm.

                                                                                                  I'm very glad to hear that the shape of the Demeyere is part of why it is so easy to clean, I was curious about that. I hope you get lucky with cleaning the Sitram, I hope it's shape leans more towards Demeyere once you clean it.

                                                                                                  Thank you, bytheway, for writing all of this, this is really helpful and interesting.

                                                                                              2. re: omotosando
                                                                                                kaleokahu Aug 15, 2013 05:51 PM

                                                                                                Hi, omotosando:

                                                                                                Before you kick yourself too hard, cook in the Profisserie a bit. They're good pans. Obviously they don't have a luxe finish, and the handle's just a tube.

                                                                                                If you still cant brook it after a game try, please consider donating it to the CLL (Cookware Lending Library). Heck, since you'd be the first donor, we can call it the Omotosando CLL.

                                                                                                Aloha,
                                                                                                Kaleo

                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 15, 2013 06:03 PM

                                                                                                  "Omotosanda CLL"

                                                                                                  It has a nice ring to it (I'm not being sarcastic, just playful).

                                                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                    omotosando Aug 16, 2013 03:20 PM

                                                                                                    I inaugurated the Sitram Profisserie skillet today by making a frittata (started on the range and finished in the oven) and I have to say it wasn't bad. The high sides of the Stitram were perfect for a frittata and the pan cleaned up well. I used a light smear of butter, including up the sides of the pan, before putting the eggs in to help prevent sticking. I still wish I had bought the Demeyere, but the pan will do.

                                                                                                    1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 16, 2013 03:24 PM

                                                                                                      This was great to read, thanks for the helpful information.

                                                                                                      I'm still sorry to hear you didn't spring for the Demeyere, but I'm relieved for you that the Sitram isn't bad.

                                                                                                      I hope it brings a lot into your kitchen.

                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 21, 2013 08:04 PM

                                                                                                        "I'm still sorry to hear you didn't spring for the Demeyere, but I'm relieved for you that the Sitram isn't bad."

                                                                                                        I used a set of Sitram Profisserie for a few years after college a long time ago. For the money spent, they were MUCH BETTER than similarly priced sets at the time. They would never win any awards for looks but, they did cook good for me. Their looks faded over time but, not their performance.

                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 09:19 AM

                                                                                                          That's impressive. They seem to be a very affordable, solid, starter type of set; I really like that about them.

                                                                                                          It's nice to know their performance never weakened, often on forums and things you never quite get to hear about those things.

                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                            kaleokahu Aug 22, 2013 09:38 AM

                                                                                                            Hi, KPD:

                                                                                                            Profisserie is better than a starter set. A significant % of European restaurants use them.

                                                                                                            Regarding the "tapering" of walls on the conical sauteuse, it would be an extremely daunting manufacturing proposition. These clad pans (at least the pan bodies) are not turned, they're stamped from uniform-thickness bonded sheetstock. So they really can't be "drawn" thinner toward the rim as can straight-gauge copper or aluminum (Not that anyone does that anymore, either). A base is added, and some Demeyere designs include a disk base that goes up the sides a very short distance. Perhaps this is the reason why people say the pans aren't heated full height.

                                                                                                            Aloha,
                                                                                                            Kaleo

                                                                                                            1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 10:24 AM

                                                                                                              “Profisserie is better than a starter set. A significant % of European restaurants use them.”

                                                                                                              That’s really good to know, they really sound quite good.

                                                                                                              I said it sounded like a good starter type set because that is the impression I’ve gotten from what people have said; I really don’t know much about them, I hope I haven’t said anything that has offended you it really wasn’t my intention. I’m sorry if I did.

                                                                                                              “Regarding the "tapering" of walls on the conical sauteuse, it would be an extremely daunting manufacturing proposition. These clad pans (at least the pan bodies) are not turned, they're stamped from uniform-thickness bonded sheetstock. So they really can't be "drawn" thinner toward the rim as can straight-gauge copper or aluminum (Not that anyone does that anymore, either). A base is added, and some Demeyere designs include a disk base that goes up the sides a very short distance. Perhaps this is the reason why people say the pans aren't heated full height.”

                                                                                                              This is extremely good to know, thank you for writing all of this out. I thought this was the case, but I wasn’t certain. As I was saying to Sid above, I thought they were the same thickness throughout (But, it would be hard for us to know for certain without having a cutaway to measure).

                                                                                                              Like you, I’m uncertain if a base is added to their conical sauté pans, but it would make a lot of sense if they did (It would explain why people say the pans aren’t heated the full height). From what I can tell of Demeyere Atlantis line, when they add a base it seems to be those ones that can be seen from the outside; like the ones used on their stock pots, Dutch ovens, and vertical wall sauté pans. As I said, I really don’t know, it would be interesting to find out though.

                                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                kaleokahu Aug 22, 2013 10:53 AM

                                                                                                                Aw, KPD, no worries...you gave no offense.

                                                                                                                But this thread on clad has segued into a minor Demeyere worship session at the expense of some other great pans.

                                                                                                                Don't get me wrong, Demeyere is very, very good stuff. But the Proline skillets are (literally) at their core old technology--thick aluminum. That Demeyere has found a way to reliably and fully clad thick aluminum (and make it induction compatible) is really the trick. The luxe finish and ergonomics are just gravy, IMO.

                                                                                                                Unless their patents are strong, I would expect others to soon emulate them.

                                                                                                                Aloha,
                                                                                                                Kaleo

                                                                                                                1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 12:15 PM

                                                                                                                  Phew, I’m really glad to hear that. I often have trouble expressing myself and I can get nervous how things sound/come off.

                                                                                                                  I’m sorry about the segue, it’s my fault. I get really enthusiastic when I research things. I agree that there are many other great pans, even SS specifically which is roughly the subject here. Demeyere figuring out how to reliably clad thick aluminum and make it induction capable certainly is impressive. I completely agree that the luxe finish and ergonomics are gravy; I’m very happy to have them, but they are gravy.

                                                                                                                  “Unless their patents are strong, I would expect others to soon emulate them.”

                                                                                                                  I tried looking up when Demeyere started making the Atlantis line, but all I could find was the year the company was founded. I’m certain others will emulate them, even if eventual; patents never seen to be ironclad.

                                                                                                                  Oh and I found this on the Demeyere website:

                                                                                                                  “For Demeyere skillets (frying pans), conic sauté pans, simmering pots and woks, a multilayer material is used up to the edge (7-ply material).”

                                                                                                                  If I’m reading this right, that means that the conical is clad the same way throughout the entire pan.

                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                    kaleokahu Aug 22, 2013 02:04 PM

                                                                                                                    Hi, KPD:

                                                                                                                    Your (and others') excitement over Demeyere is nothing to apologize for. It's great stuff, and oftentimes a quantum leap beyond what folks have used before.

                                                                                                                    "...that means that the conical is clad the same way throughout the entire pan."

                                                                                                                    That's my conclusion, too. The conductive layer(s) are not as thick as in the Proline 5*, the walls are higher, sauces are heated a lot through convection, etc., etc., so perhaps other posters are correct in saying the conical doesn't heat [as well] up the sides. It would be nice to have someone shoot some readings with an IR thermometer in an empty and partially-full pan to put this in objective terms.

                                                                                                                    Aloha,
                                                                                                                    Kaleo

                                                                                                                    1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 04:09 PM

                                                                                                                      “Your (and others') excitement over Demeyere is nothing to apologize for. It's great stuff, and oftentimes a quantum leap beyond what folks have used before.”

                                                                                                                      I know this may seem silly, but this really made me feel better; thank you.

                                                                                                                      I completely agree on that is exactly what the differences are and the thoughts on what seems to be making the sides not heat up as much, it’s actually what I was trying to ask before.

                                                                                                                      I hope someone with a IR thermometer gets a Demeyere conical pot and tries this out. I don’t have one and it makes me wish I did, it’d certainly clear a lot of things up and be vastly interesting. It’d also be interesting to see if the readings would come out as expected if they deep fried in the pot (I say this because I'm the type that knows that it must come to the obvious conclusion, how could it not?, but like testing to see if it is true anyway to have it confirmed).

                                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                        DuffyH Aug 22, 2013 08:38 PM

                                                                                                                        PingPongDumplings -

                                                                                                                        <It’d also be interesting to see if the readings would come out as expected if they deep fried in the pot (I say this because I'm the type that knows that it must come to the obvious conclusion, how could it not?, but like testing to see if it is true anyway to have it confirmed).>

                                                                                                                        Yup, you're a geek. But you knew that, didn't you? ;)

                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 12:48 PM

                                                                                                                          Are those dumplings that are the size of ping pongs, resemble ping pongs, or are made out of ping pongs?

                                                                                                                          I'd love to tell you I am (Especially because of how cute you are being); but I'm actually not, as hard as it is to believe.

                                                                                                                          I like having solid information on cookware to know how and why it acts a certain way so I can use it to my advantage in the kitchen (Which IMO is much more boring answer then me just being a geek).

                                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                            DuffyH Aug 25, 2013 03:22 PM

                                                                                                                            KangRooDumplings,

                                                                                                                            <I like having solid information on cookware to know how and why it acts a certain way so I can use it to my advantage in the kitchen >

                                                                                                                            Do you do this in other aspects of your life, or is just cookware that you thoroughly research before making a decision?

                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 07:02 PM

                                                                                                                              Are those dumplings made out of kangaroos or are they in the shape of kangaroos?

                                                                                                                              I thoroughly research everything I buy before buying it, but when it comes to this scientific level of exactly how something works to a defined point I only research kitchen items this way/deeply.

                                                                                                                              I research a sofa for its dimensions, quality, warranty, and customer service, but a specific brand and size of pressure cooker I also like to know before buying (Although I don’t always do it to this level) if it has any common problems (Especially certain years of make), certain heat limits, restrictions of liquid or acid levels, how easy to use people find it, how easy to clean people find it, how they clean it healthily and easily (Those kind of tips and tricks), and any troubleshooting a singular person versus the company can give to me and explain to me.

                                                                                                                              I find the more I know about the kitchen items I want to buy (Whether it's a brand, line, type of cookware or it's just a tool in the kitchen) the more I truly know what I need in the kitchen and I make better decisions. I often find out that I don't need a kitchen tool because a simpler and more to my style kitchen tool I never thought of works better for me, also I may think that buying a well seasoned cast iron pan for the sole purpose of making Kung Pao Chicken (Which is full of acid, mainly being flavoured with black vinegar and wine) would be a great idea, but it isn't because acid will strip those seasoning and possibly add a metallic taste to my food, especially since I'm looking to only use this pan for that one dish.

                                                                                                                              I also find the more I know about the items I fill my kitchen with, the more I get out of them and my cooking experiences and my kitchen life becomes more simple and easy. Researching items to this level can also help minimize the amount of items in my kitchen, I often find I don’t need something at all or it wasn’t what I thought/or as helpful as I thought or I have something that already does the job and better. I also often find items I never knew existed by trying to find an item with a specific purpose, instead of knowing what item I think I should be using. The more I read about these items as well I also pick up on bits of information on cooking, including tips/tricks, why something works/doesn’t work, and information I didn’t even mean to pick up, but is incredibly helpful (Like your SS trick on how to make it nonstick).

                                                                                                                            2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 25, 2013 03:24 PM

                                                                                                                              Oh! It's nice round dumplings, because only a food artist would have the least interest in dumplings made from real ping pongs. :)

                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 07:05 PM

                                                                                                                                Oo, that sounds pretty!

                                                                                                                                The concept of completely spherical dumplings actually sounds ascetically appealing, especially with a nice white dough and if they were small.

                                                                                                                                Ping pong dumplings from real ping pongs sounded very gross, so I'm glad.

                                                                                                                    2. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 22, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                      Hey Kaleo,

                                                                                                                      <Unless their patents are strong, I would expect others to soon emulate them.>

                                                                                                                      I'd like that day to come sooner, as even one Atlantis pan can wreck my cookware budget.

                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                        kaleokahu Aug 22, 2013 02:09 PM

                                                                                                                        Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                                                        You can bet Stanley Cheng (Meyer Corp.) already has his patent lawyers working on this issue. Meyer has made strides recently in cladding thick-er aluminum with the "Hestan" Thermoclad he makes for W-S.

                                                                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                                                                        1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 22, 2013 08:34 PM

                                                                                                                          I can vouch for how thick that aluminum is, too. Those pans weigh a LOT. Probably less than Demeyere I5 at SLT, but they didn't feel nearly as well balanced to me, and so they feel heavier.

                                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                            kaleokahu Aug 23, 2013 08:06 AM

                                                                                                                            The Thermoclad skillets contain 2mm of aluminum. They are heavy.

                                                                                                                    3. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                      l
                                                                                                                      laraffinee Aug 22, 2013 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                      Some of the Atlantis cookware is layered all the way to the rim - the Proline skillets and something else is. Some have a layer of copper and some have a layer of aluminum. Each piece is designed for the type of cooking that is to be done with it They have extensive details on their website which I examined before I started to buy the line. After using the cookware, I am impressed with the engineering dept. that came up with the line. It is pretty cool.

                                                                                                                      1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 04:11 PM

                                                                                                                        The website confirmed that the conical pots are layered all the way to the rim.

                                                                                                                      2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 23, 2013 08:04 PM

                                                                                                                        NO! The conical sauteuse doesn't have the "disc" base like some of their other pans, at least not one I can see on my pan. It is obvious on my saucepan.

                                                                                                                        The conical sauteuse appears to be drawn or stamped from a single sheet of base material which, as noted above, "feels" like it is heavier at the bottom versus the rim. I guess it is possible there is a seam in there somewhere but, I haven't noticed it in my pan. It certainly isn't obvious if there is one.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 12:55 PM

                                                                                                                          Yeah, Kaleo and I figured this out above, I'm glad that you're reconfirming this since you own one. It's nice to have things confirmed and be solid knowledge.

                                                                                                                      3. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                        omotosando Aug 22, 2013 01:54 PM

                                                                                                                        I'm liking my Profisserie more and more. It's a great pan, but just takes a lot more elbow grease to get clean than the Demeyere. I finally got it sparkling this morning, but it took a lot of elbow grease and a combo of Demeyere stainless cleaner and then a lot of Barkeeper's Friend.

                                                                                                                        Since I lack a toaster, I have also been using the Profisserie to crisp up bread and reheat pancakes -- much better than the microwave, which leaves everything soggy and disgusting.

                                                                                                                        I think the big advantage of the Demeyere for home cooks who do not have dishwashers on staff is the greater ease of cleanup.

                                                                                                                        1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                          b
                                                                                                                          bevwinchester Aug 22, 2013 03:56 PM

                                                                                                                          Well, I am going to sheepishly enquire- just how sparkling clean do you get your pans? I use very hot water & a little scrubby on my Debuyer CS to my satisfaction. I have just purchased 2 Sitram pans, a Demeyer saucepan & a couple of Fisslers to employ on my new induction cooktop (not hooked up yet, bahhhh). I am optimistic that cleaning will not be difficult on any of them, but we all have our cooking disasters at times!

                                                                                                                          1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 04:28 PM

                                                                                                                            That's wonderful to hear!

                                                                                                                            I'm sorry it takes more to clean, but I'm happy you got it sparkling.

                                                                                                                            It sounds like the pan is really working out for you, that's really lovely to hear.

                                                                                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 22, 2013 08:25 PM

                                                                                                                              I like your take on things. Too often we overlook clean-up. I have been hand washing all my pots since I discovered the aluminum was corroding in the DW. Well, I've added a hunk of zinc to the cutlery basket and it seems to be working. The zinc has lost 1 gram of weight in the last week.

                                                                                                                              I *really* hate hand washing pots. Frypans don't bother me, but pots are just irritating. I think mostly I've been missing the sparkly clean look they get from the DW. So it's back into the machine for mine. Have you tried putting the Sitram in the DW? With a disk bottom they should be fine, yes?

                                                                                                                              I'd been hating even the Demeyere, because hand washing doesn't leave pots as shiny as I like. I've lately been using Soft Scrub, liking how much easier it is than powder cleansers like BKF.

                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                omotosando Aug 22, 2013 10:22 PM

                                                                                                                                Alas, I own no dishwasher, so I am the dishwasher.

                                                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 12:34 PM

                                                                                                                                  I agree that clean up is often ignored and shouldn't be ignored when making a decision on what to put in our kitchens.

                                                                                                                                  "Well, I've added a hunk of zinc to the cutlery basket and it seems to be working. The zinc has lost 1 gram of weight in the last week."

                                                                                                                                  I know you talked to Kaleo about this, but what exactly do these results mean? Does this mean that the aluminum can't possibly be eroding as well as long as the zinc is in the dishwasher?

                                                                                                                                  I'm sorry to hear your Demeyere is giving you trouble with clean up, I hope things work out (Hopefully with the dishwasher, to take it off your hands).

                                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                    DuffyH Aug 25, 2013 03:19 PM

                                                                                                                                    KPDimples,

                                                                                                                                    <Does this mean that the aluminum can't possibly be eroding as well as long as the zinc is in the dishwasher?>

                                                                                                                                    That's the theory. When we mix metals in a DW, the salts in the detergent turn the DW into a giant battery. Even if a DW has a porcelain interior, putting a clad steel/aluminum/steel pan into it creates the battery. The less reactive metal acts as a cathode and the more reactive metal is the anode, which corrodes. A clad pan, of course, is less reactive steel bonded to more reactive aluminum, so aluminum loses mass over time.

                                                                                                                                    By adding zinc to the mix, I've introduced a third metal, one that is more reactive than aluminum. The zinc will act as the anode in my DW now, sparing the aluminum.

                                                                                                                                    Sadly for Calphalon owners, their rivets are aluminum, not the SS used by most of the mid- and premium brands. I've written to ask if that's going to change given the way new DW detergents corrode aluminum.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 25, 2013 06:23 PM

                                                                                                                                      You keep making me smile, but sadly I'm not getting dimples yet.

                                                                                                                                      That's really interesting that the aluminum won't be affected at all just because of the zinc. Thank you for explaining to me how this works, I had no idea about any of this. How will you know if the theory is reality? Are you doing this by measuring the pans mass over time? Is that what I read you were doing?

                                                                                                                                      Tell me what Calphalon says about the rivets, I'd love to know what they say.

                                                                                                                    4. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                      omotosando Aug 21, 2013 07:00 PM

                                                                                                                      I continue to cook in the Sitram Profisserie and Kaleokahu is correct that it is a good pan. However, after a week of use it already looks old and battered, unlike the Demeyere.

                                                                                                                      I couldn't justify buying the 9.4" Demeyere Proline after just having bought the 9" Sitram, but since my 7" DeBuyer stainless steel fry pan is over 10 years old and is vastly inferior to both the Demeyere Proline and the Sitram Profisserie, I did just justify to myself ordering the Demeyere 7.9" Proline. Sadly and strangely, it was $40 more than the larger 9.4" Proline.

                                                                                                                      1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 22, 2013 09:23 AM

                                                                                                                        "after a week of use it already looks old and battered, unlike the Demeyere."

                                                                                                                        I'm sorry to hear that, at least it's still performing well.

                                                                                                                        "but since my 7" DeBuyer stainless steel fry pan is over 10 years old and is vastly inferior to both the Demeyere Proline and the Sitram Profisserie"

                                                                                                                        That's good to know, I haven't heard much about DeBuyer SS; it's great to have a comparison.

                                                                                                                        "Sadly and strangely, it was $40 more than the larger 9.4" Proline."

                                                                                                                        Yes, it is sad and strange, but everyone currently only having a sale on the 9.4 so that's why.

                                                                                                                        1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                          b
                                                                                                                          blastingcap Aug 22, 2013 07:05 PM

                                                                                                                          I have had similar experiences with Sitram Profiserie. The performance is there, but it doesn't clean up as nicely as some of my other stuff including Demeyere Proline/Atlantis. Even with liberal doses of BKF.

                                                                                                                    5. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                      c
                                                                                                                      calumin Aug 16, 2013 02:03 PM

                                                                                                                      I really wanted to get the Demeyere John Pawson line. I showed them to my wife and it took her two hands to lift the skillet. She said if we bought these she'd probably start using the non-stick cheap skillets more because these were too heavy.

                                                                                                                      We ended up with All-Clad brushed d5 -- with a sale at WS we got a 15 piece set for under $900, probably less than half of the John Pawson line. So far, they are fantastic to cook with.

                                                                                                                      1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                        DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 06:30 PM

                                                                                                                        How would you compare the Demeyere to cast iron from a weight standpoint?

                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                          c
                                                                                                                          calumin Aug 16, 2013 09:35 PM

                                                                                                                          It's not as heavy as cast iron. As a pure guess, I'd say the additional weight would be ~40-50% of the weight difference between an All Clad d5 and cast iron. Maybe a bit less.

                                                                                                                          1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                            DuffyH Aug 17, 2013 06:34 AM

                                                                                                                            Thanks, calumin. Having handled the d5, I know exactly what you're describing. Very helpful! :)

                                                                                                                            1. re: calumin
                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:51 PM

                                                                                                                              Thank you for the information, I was incredibly curious about this.

                                                                                                                              I am used to using/lifting cast iron, but I kept hearing about how heavy Demeyere is I got worried it might be too heavy for me.

                                                                                                                              Hearing this, I know I don't need to worry.

                                                                                                                            2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:20 PM

                                                                                                                              I'm really glad you asked this, I kept forgetting to ask this.

                                                                                                                      2. j
                                                                                                                        jnwall Aug 16, 2013 10:42 AM

                                                                                                                        All these folks make fine cookware, but it might be helpful to read Mark Bittman's discussion here:

                                                                                                                        http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/din...

                                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                                        1. re: jnwall
                                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 16, 2013 12:29 PM

                                                                                                                          That's a fun read, and Bittman gores enough sacred cows to cause the 'Hounds to rise up en masse, hunt him down and filet him. With our boning knives, of course. :)

                                                                                                                          1. re: jnwall
                                                                                                                            b
                                                                                                                            blastingcap Aug 16, 2013 07:03 PM

                                                                                                                            Thanks for the link. Good read, I mostly agree with his points. Funny how he dissed exposed copper (I agree, high maintenance and the advantage is not as big as people might think compared to the high-end stuff), yet he didn't mention the downsides of exposed aluminum.

                                                                                                                            1. re: blastingcap
                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:21 PM

                                                                                                                              It is odd that he didn't mention the downsides of exposed aluminum considering there has been so much talk just on these forums alone about it.

                                                                                                                            2. re: jnwall
                                                                                                                              kaleokahu Aug 16, 2013 07:57 PM

                                                                                                                              Hi, Jnwall:

                                                                                                                              If this is all Bittman uses in his own kitchen, I have a fedora that is begging for some Hollandaise. This was clearly a showpiece for frugality, and it's all fine, as far as it goes.

                                                                                                                              There's a famous knifemaker's book called "Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop", too. The forge is a BBQ and a hairdryer. But almost no one equips him/herself that way if they don't have to.

                                                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 17, 2013 01:46 PM

                                                                                                                                "I have a fedora that is begging for some Hollandaise."

                                                                                                                                That is the most amusing way I've ever heard someone say "I'll eat my hat", have you ever watched WordGirl on PBS? There is a character that says/does eat his hat often that you reminded me of (He could use the Hollandaise).

                                                                                                                                I agree, a minimalist show for those starting out/or don't cook much is more than fine; but I'll never forge my own knife with a BBQ and I doubt many people will.

                                                                                                                                Kitchens should be fun, easy to use, personal, and enjoyable. We don't all have to be chefs to find ease or even just enjoyment out of using a better knife. If we aren't enjoying ourselves in the kitchen, what's the point?

                                                                                                                                I also see no reason to be extreme in being minimalist just because I can get by that way. When I'm in the kitchen I'm trying to find products that will help me provide a better result or even that I just purely enjoy. I don't want to get by in the kitchen; I want to be comfortable and enjoy myself, just like I will the food.

                                                                                                                            3. DuffyH Aug 17, 2013 08:46 PM

                                                                                                                              So, today was my road trip to SLT in Sarasota to grab the Demeyere I5 3.5 qt "essential" pan. You say essential, I say saucier. I haven't cooked in it yet, but here are my first impressions:

                                                                                                                              Yes, it's heavy. Almost 1/2 pound more than my 4.5 qt Cal. clad saucepan. But for all it's weight, the balance is incredible. It feels much more stable in the hand. I attribute this to weight distribution. The handle fork is quite widespread, much more so than most other pans I've seen. The photos tell the tale; the entire plate on my Cal. saucier (3 qt) is only 1/4" wider than the inside spread on the I5 fork. Add in the outer plates on the I5 and the I5 spread is over 1.75" wider. That's a lot more stability.

                                                                                                                              The handle on the I5 is a rough cast finish. Coupled with it's wide, flat profile it feels less "twisty" in the hand.

                                                                                                                              It's interior base is ~7" diameter, exactly the same as my Cal. 4.5 qt saucepan. Can't wait to cook in it.

                                                                                                                              It should be noted that when I told the Dude I was taking Mom on a Road Trip, he didn't blink. When we returned, he saw the SLT bags we had and said "Fresh kill. Great. Is there another carcass in the trunk that you'd like me to gut and dress for you?" You've got to love a man who understands a woman's occasional need to return to the wild and spend the day hunting.

                                                                                                                              5 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 06:28 PM

                                                                                                                                First off, congratulations on getting it!

                                                                                                                                “But for all it’s weight, the balance is incredible. It feels much more stable in the hand. I attribute this to weight distribution. The handle fork is quite widespread, much more so than most other pans I've seen.”

                                                                                                                                I’m really interested in you writing about the handles/balance, that’s actually been my only last real remaining question. I’m really happy to hear they feel stable and well balanced; it’s hard to find a pan with the right feel.

                                                                                                                                “The handle on the I5 is a rough cast finish. Coupled with it's wide, flat profile it feels less "twisty" in the hand. “

                                                                                                                                Sounds very grippy. Do you like the rough cast finish? Is it pleasant/is it distracting/is it neutral? I find that certain textures on a handle sometimes make me not want to touch it.

                                                                                                                                “Can't wait to cook in it.”

                                                                                                                                I hope you don’t have too long to wait, tell us what you think!

                                                                                                                                “It should be noted that when I told the Dude I was taking Mom on a Road Trip, he didn't blink. When we returned, he saw the SLT bags we had and said "Fresh kill. Great. Is there another carcass in the trunk that you'd like me to gut and dress for you?" You've got to love a man who understands a woman's occasional need to return to the wild and spend the day hunting.”

                                                                                                                                Is the Dude your husband? He sounds like a keeper; I’m glad he understands you so well. What else did you buy at SLT?

                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 07:50 PM

                                                                                                                                  KPD -

                                                                                                                                  <Sounds very grippy. Do you like the rough cast finish? Is it pleasant/is it distracting/is it neutral? I find that certain textures on a handle sometimes make me not want to touch it.>

                                                                                                                                  I do like the finish, on 2 levels. First, as mentioned, it does seem to help with maintaining one's grip. Second, It's rather pleasing to look at. It's a nice change from the usual run of pans with their polished handles. The loop handles look very industrial with their angles, yet the rough cast also seems more organic, at least in my eyes. As for distracting, well, I'm not finding it so. I can see where it might bother some people; we can all react to textures differently.

                                                                                                                                  <Is the Dude your husband? He sounds like a keeper; I’m glad he understands you so well. What else did you buy at SLT?>

                                                                                                                                  The Dude is indeed my spousal unit. After almost 40 years of wedded bliss he ought to understand me well. I picked up some odds and ends; a pastry tip, a scoop for making meatballs and cookies, a couple of towels on clearance. Mom saw a Breville risotto machine thingy that she insisted on buying for me. I don't know if we'll get much use from it, but time will tell.

                                                                                                                                  http://www.amazon.com/Breville-BRC600...

                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 08:19 PM

                                                                                                                                    It sounds like I'll like the handles, I know what you mean about all pans with their polished handles. Also, anything to increase grip is a plus. They sound very pretty in person!

                                                                                                                                    Your mother sounds adorable, you'll have to tell us if the risotto machine is any good.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 05:33 AM

                                                                                                                                      KPD,

                                                                                                                                      <Your mother sounds adorable, you'll have to tell us if the risotto machine is any good.>

                                                                                                                                      Mom's a piece of work, for sure and generous to a fault. We were at the register at SLT when she saw the Breville. My brother (she splits her time between us) has her old rice maker, which they use often. I've always cooked rice of all kinds on the stovetop.

                                                                                                                                      So she sees the Breville, but really only see the word "Risotto" on the box, gets all excited because she LOVES risotto, and before you can say "arborio rice" the thing is on my counter.

                                                                                                                                      We're going to test drive it for a while before we decide whether to keep it.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 10:34 AM

                                                                                                                                        I cook my rice dishes on the stovetop as well.

                                                                                                                                        Yup, she's adorable all right!

                                                                                                                                        "and before you can say "arborio rice" the thing is on my counter."

                                                                                                                                        This made me giggle.

                                                                                                                                        Sounds sound, I hope it works out for you or your mother if it isn't a good fit for you.

                                                                                                                              2. DuffyH Aug 17, 2013 08:51 PM

                                                                                                                                Oops! Photos would be nice. Here they are.

                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                17 Replies
                                                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                  l
                                                                                                                                  longtimecook Aug 18, 2013 07:56 AM

                                                                                                                                  Very nice. Congratulations!. The wide spread of the hand I would think helps with the balance too.? Is the handle textured on the DM? It appears so in the pic.
                                                                                                                                  Found this on youtube about the sides of the pan(s). Apparently it's different for each one.
                                                                                                                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

                                                                                                                                  1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                                                    longtimecook Aug 18, 2013 09:50 AM

                                                                                                                                    Thought I post this too incase anybody was interested. Don't know if works as stated but hell for $99 it may be worth it.

                                                                                                                                    http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produc...

                                                                                                                                    1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                                      l
                                                                                                                                      laraffinee Aug 18, 2013 04:12 PM

                                                                                                                                      Just want to add that the smoker and other pieces of the Demeyere Resto line are not the same construction as the Atlantis and main line that is made in Belgium. It is still really good cookware - no problem there - but it is made in Indonesia.
                                                                                                                                      I have the large Maslin pot in the line and it is a dream of a stock pot! It is just not the same as the Atlantis/Proline cookware.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 09:21 PM

                                                                                                                                        Please review your Maslin jam pot. What do you cook in it? How does it perform? Does the heat go up the sides of the pot?

                                                                                                                                        I'm considering one myself as noted above and I'm really interested in your experiences with it.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:30 PM

                                                                                                                                          I'm with Sid, I'd love to hear what you have to say about your Maslin pot and how it preforms, including how it feels different and similar to Atlantis/Proline pieces, as you said it is not th same construction so it would be interesting to see the comparison.

                                                                                                                                        2. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:19 PM

                                                                                                                                          It should work. Any deep pan with a lid and a rack can gently smoke an item if you do it right.

                                                                                                                                          This set is good for someone who smoke smalls amounts often and needs something solid, fit together, and easy to use.

                                                                                                                                          Thanks for posting this for people to see, I'm certain it will help people out!

                                                                                                                                          Also, in case anyone is wondering, $99 is the normal price for this set; it's not actually on sale.

                                                                                                                                        3. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 02:46 PM

                                                                                                                                          <The wide spread of the hand I would think helps with the balance too.?>

                                                                                                                                          Just so. The pan feels incredibly well-balanced, despite it's weight.

                                                                                                                                          <Is the handle textured on the DM?>

                                                                                                                                          Yes, the handle is pleasantly rough. I'm sure that aids in providing a stable grip.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: longtimecook
                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 07:16 PM

                                                                                                                                            I’ve watched this video again and this is what I've come to:

                                                                                                                                            He says on the conical that the walls need to be heated actively and on the fry pan he says they heat all the way up to the top. The only other difference he makes is that the conical pot is thinner than the fry pan.

                                                                                                                                            I'm still very curious to know, since this video wasn't definitive enough for me, if the conical heats all the way up to the top like their fry pans do (The fry pans are said to be almost as hot on the top edge as the bottom of the pan), thank you again for checking this out for me!

                                                                                                                                          2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 06:30 PM

                                                                                                                                            These photos are incredibly helpful, thank you!

                                                                                                                                            Your picture reminds me: do you find the thumb indentation on the handle to be helpful, neutral, or unhelpful?

                                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                              KPD -

                                                                                                                                              I knew someone would ask about the thumb indentation. I'm neutral about it, but Mom thought is was nice to have.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 08:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                I saw it in one of the videos and knew I had to ask someone about it.

                                                                                                                                                When you grab the handle, do you feel it lines up well with your hand? There is nothing worse than a thumb indentation that doesn't place/balance you correctly on a handle.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 18, 2013 09:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoPanda,

                                                                                                                                                  <When you grab the handle, do you feel it lines up well with your hand?>

                                                                                                                                                  Not just yet, but I feel that will change. You see, I'm used to the handles on my Calphalon Tri-Ply, which are narrower than the Demeyere. So my normal grasp is slightly farther out on the handle, as that's where I need to grab the Calphalon. My thumb rests about 1/4" behind the indent, but centered otherwise.

                                                                                                                                                  As I become accustomed to the different balance of this pan, and begin to naturally grasp the handle closer to the pan, everything should line up perfectly.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                    I'm a Panda now, am I? I'm honoured. I'll have to stock lots of bamboo now; I really do enjoy bamboo shoots in Asian dishes, I'll have to eat more now.

                                                                                                                                                    My hands fit perfectly on Calphalon Tri-Ply handles (Strangely so. It’s been part of why I’ve been nervous about buying Demeyere. When you have something that fits your hand so perfectly, you worry its replacement won’t be as comfortable.), have you had this experience with the Tri-Ply handles? How would you compare the two handles to each other? Do you find the Demeyere too wide?

                                                                                                                                                    I'm certain as well that you'll naturally acclimate to it, I'm glad to hear that you find yourself comfortable, centered, and well balanced even with how you currently are holding them.

                                                                                                                                                    This is a lot of help, as I said this has been one of my biggest concerns about buying Demeyere, thank you in advance for helping me out.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 19, 2013 05:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDimples,

                                                                                                                                                      <.... have you had this experience with the Tri-Ply handles? How would you compare the two handles to each other? Do you find the Demeyere too wide?>

                                                                                                                                                      Since the Cal. suits you well, you'll be fine with DM. DM is ~1/32" wider than Cal. and simply replaces the Cal. groove with the thumb rest. Both have a slight bulge at the bottom. Likewise, the other differences are minor, but taken together make for a radically different handle, but one with a familiar feel. For example, the slimmest point of the Cal. is 7/8", DM is 15/16".

                                                                                                                                                      The biggest differences are in handle placement and angle. The DM handle is placed near the top of the pan (we're talking about saucepans here) and is rather horizontal. The Cal. is attached farther down the pan body and has a marked upward curve.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 19, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Oddly enough I don't have any dimples, I might have to smile more and work on it.

                                                                                                                                                        "Since the Cal. suits you well, you'll be fine with DM. DM is ~1/32" wider than Cal. and simply replaces the Cal. groove with the thumb rest. Both have a slight bulge at the bottom. Likewise, the other differences are minor, but taken together make for a radically different handle, but one with a familiar feel. For example, the slimmest point of the Cal. is 7/8", DM is 15/16"."

                                                                                                                                                        I'm ecstatic to hear this; I got a boxer's fracture a few years back, so it's very difficult for me to find handles that are comfortable. I'm glad the handles have a familiar feel to the Tri-Ply. I'm completely relieved and assuaged.

                                                                                                                                                        "The biggest differences are in handle placement and angle. The DM handle is placed near the top of the pan (we're talking about saucepans here) and is rather horizontal. The Cal. is attached farther down the pan body and has a marked upward curve."

                                                                                                                                                        I actually prefer rather horizontal handles, so this sounds like a winner for me.

                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for putting so much detail here, I agree that it sounds that this should suit me.

                                                                                                                                                  2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 18, 2013 09:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                    The thumb indentation is very intuitive and natural if you want to "choke" up on the pan. This helps ensure you stay far enough away from the sides to avoid accidental contact and burns with a hot pan. When cooking though, I always grab the handle farther out - I guess I've burned a knuckle too many times. I also have a pretty good grip so, lifting a full pan from the excellent handle is not a problem for me so, I don't "choke up" on it where I could reach the thumb indentation.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 18, 2013 10:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                      I never choke up on pans myself; I am either middle or farther out.

                                                                                                                                                      I'm glad that the indentation acts like a warning line practically, that is quite useful.

                                                                                                                                                      I'm glad the indentation doesn't get in the way; it really was my biggest concern with it.

                                                                                                                                                      It's always nice to hear about handles and pans that are so well balanced that you don't have to choke up on it or always use it in one place for that matter for it to be stable.

                                                                                                                                            2. a
                                                                                                                                              admcmahon2 Aug 22, 2013 08:46 PM

                                                                                                                                              I have had my All-Clad for several years now and no complaints.
                                                                                                                                              I have different pieces in the original All -Clad LTD that was discontinued :(, 3 ply stainless steel, and MC 2. All of these are made in the USA.
                                                                                                                                              All are 3 ply- bought before they went nuts on this 5 ply thing.
                                                                                                                                              Truth- Aluminum is the next best conductor of heat to copper.
                                                                                                                                              All Clad pans are heavy and if you cook the way they recommend on the pans, there should be no problem. Once the pan is initially hot, you turn the heat down to low-med for cooking- aluminum core is that good.
                                                                                                                                              So, don't waste money on heavier copper unless you want to upkeep the exterior. If you want great cooking pots and pans, then stick with the 3 ply stainless (LTD is gone) and do your web search for All-Clad seconds. They do sell some that may have an odd scratch or whatever, making them not presentable as a first, so they are discounted sometimes quite a bit. Not sure of the website, but you will find it with the web search. And support the USA

                                                                                                                                              1. c
                                                                                                                                                christinielsen Aug 23, 2013 11:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                I used to be a manager at Sur La Table, and we always told the customers to handle the cookware. It doesn't matter how many people tell you one brand is better, if you hate the handles or any other aspect, you won't enjoy using it and will probably let it sit on a shelf.

                                                                                                                                                Don't buy sets. You end up with pans you don't need.

                                                                                                                                                Any of those 3 brands will be just fine. I personally like All-Clad because I don't like the weight of the Demeyere. Of course, I have 3-ply AC, so what you're looking at is heavier anyway. I regret buying the 4 qt Demeyere Industry 5 saucepan because it's so heavy, I can barely hold it with one hand while trying to pour/get food out with the other. I also detest the handles on Industry 5.

                                                                                                                                                If you go with Demeyere, I would suggest the Atlantis. The Pawson is just a designer line.
                                                                                                                                                If you go with All-Clad, I would suggest the Copper Core.
                                                                                                                                                The Mauviel is great, but high maintenance.

                                                                                                                                                Also, another tip. Sur La Table lets you return anything for any reason. So you could buy from them, test it, return the one you don't like. They also price match.

                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                1. re: christinielsen
                                                                                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 23, 2013 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                  christinielsen,

                                                                                                                                                  <Sur La Table lets you return anything for any reason. So you could buy from them, test it, return the one you don't like. They also price match.>

                                                                                                                                                  I always knew SLT was good one returns, but wasn't aware of the price matching. Is it only brick and mortar stores they'll match, or web stores, too?

                                                                                                                                                  Also, if I haven't mentioned it before , SLT has an AMAZING military discount. 15% on most items (on top of sale or clearance prices) with 10% on electrics. I know of a number of other stores who offer discounts to military, but 15% is HUGE. Kudos to SLT! :)

                                                                                                                                                2. k
                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 27, 2013 01:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                  Sid, omotosando, Kaleo, laraffinee, anyone:

                                                                                                                                                  So I've gone full circle (And reread everything here that I was thinking I was leaning towards) regarding what size fry pan I need.

                                                                                                                                                  I know I am going to be buying Demeyere's 4.2 (11 inch diameter with almost an entire 11 inch flat cooking surface) sauté pan. This pan is going to be my work horse. I will be cooking pancakes, French toast, latkes, browning large amounts of small pieces of meat, large batches of breaded meats, and large batches of anything and everything really, especially things that need good surface area not to crowd.

                                                                                                                                                  So, I wanted to supplement this pan with a fry pan (Which obviously wouldn't have the same flat surface area, even if the sides do help cooking a lot), for smaller tasks like searing a single piece of meat and being able to put it in the oven to finish, frying 4-5 bangers (The ones that are 1-1 ½ inch thick and about 4-5 inches long)(Which the sauté pan seems like it might, but maybe not, be too big for. Also regarding the fry pans, I don't cook bangers up the sides of pans, it doesn't really work for me, so maybe I should cook them in the sauté pan?), cooking largeish amounts of onions/veg without steaming occurring, pasta dishes, cooking for 2-3 people including making pan sauces (I don't want a pan that the base for the pan sauces will evaporate away too quickly), and anything that the 11 inch flat surface may be too big for.

                                                                                                                                                  I have been trying to suss out what I need, but it is proving difficult. I'm looking at the 9.4, 11, and 12.6 inch Demeyere Proline pans.

                                                                                                                                                  The 12.6 has a 8.5 truly flat surface area and the rest get smaller from there. I know the sides are perfect for cooking at well, especially for a large amount of onions or a nicely sauced pasta dish, but I know that 4-5 bangers may not fit well (IMO if they are touching each other they steam too much) and the 4.2 sauté pan may be too big for them.

                                                                                                                                                  I know it may seem odd, but I am looking to only buy one of these pans (I find that I tend to reach for two types of pans in my kitchen and the others get ignored, the 4.2 sauté being the first pan I know I will be reaching for).

                                                                                                                                                  I haven't had a lot of fry pan sizes in my kitchen and I've never had something with such a large surface as the 11 inch sauté, so I'm uncertain where my fry pan need gap is going to be.

                                                                                                                                                  Does anyone have any thoughts on what seems like to fit my needs? I'm having trouble figuring it out with the limitations of relatable items in my kitchen (It’s not really helping make a clear answer) and I don't want to make a mistake purchasing the wrong item.

                                                                                                                                                  If you need more of a description of either pan's usage or how I cook; just ask and I'll reply.

                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for the help.

                                                                                                                                                  99 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                    Sid Post Aug 27, 2013 03:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                    What size skillets have you used in the past?

                                                                                                                                                    My initial thoughts are:
                                                                                                                                                    *) The 12.6" model is too big unless you are used to using a skillet this large.

                                                                                                                                                    *) The 9.4" model is a great size but, you can crowd items in it so it 'might' not be the best choice for crisping things in mid-size to large batches.

                                                                                                                                                    *) the 11" model is a nice compromise between these two sizes being not "too large" or "too small" for most jobs and it has the helper handle for heavy food when you want to move it into the oven.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 28, 2013 04:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                      "What size skillets have you used in the past?"

                                                                                                                                                      That's just it, I've had inconsistent usage of different fry pans and have often improperly used Dutch ovens to cook in fry pan style because of how little in the kitchen I've had: so I have very little ideas about what certain fry pan sizes feel to me, especially since I often mentally measure most cookware in the flat cooking surface (Which is only partially relevant in the case of what I need in a fry pan since not everything needs a flat so much as any surface like onions).

                                                                                                                                                      "*) The 12.6" model is too big unless you are used to using a skillet this large."

                                                                                                                                                      If I cook 3 chicken breasts, would this pan be too big for making a pan sauce? Would it just dissipate away? I can certainly get used to a large fry pan as long as the jobs I'm looking for it to do it doesn't automatically ruin them (Like making it very difficult to build a pan sauce with the amount of food I would be ideally cooking with. I usually cook for 3 people.).

                                                                                                                                                      "*) The 9.4" model is a great size but, you can crowd items in it so it 'might' not be the best choice for crisping things in mid-size to large batches."

                                                                                                                                                      My 4.2 quart sauté I will certainly be using for the bulk of my large batches, but it seems you feel like this size is too small for mid size cooking (Which this pan is looking to mainly do, unless you consider 4-5 bangers not to be mid cooking and more like large cooking), is this true?

                                                                                                                                                      "*) the 11" model is a nice compromise between these two sizes being not "too large" or "too small" for most jobs and it has the helper handle for heavy food when you want to move it into the oven."

                                                                                                                                                      I'm starting to lean towards this one. I was a bit worried before that having two 11 inch diameter pans, even with different surface flat areas, would be too similar; but you seem to feel like it's going to do what I need to do with the amount of food I will be cooking.

                                                                                                                                                      I certainly am curious to hear more on what you have to say about the 9.4 and 12.6 (And the 11 if you have anything else), given the information on the tasks I'm looking to do and feeding 3 people.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 29, 2013 06:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                        The 12.6" Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 5* skillet is too large for the quantity of pan sauce you want. Evaporation for smaller quantities would be a problem too. Scratch it off the list completely.

                                                                                                                                                        The smaller 9.4" skillet is probably best for pan sauces in the quantity you want. However between this one and the 11", I personally would want the 11" if I only had one. The 11" is just more flexible and versatile.

                                                                                                                                                        When I do a fine dice on potatoes, I would much rather have the larger space in my 11" skillet. If I want to crisp up potato cakes, or make pancakes (I have crepe pans for this though), or cook chicken leg quarters, the larger skillet is the way to go. The 9.4" skillet will do all these things too but, the larger one does it easier and gives me the option of cooking more.

                                                                                                                                                        Also, don't confuse an 11" Saute pan with an 11" Skillet. They cook differently and are used for different things. Would you put that 11" Saute pan under the broiler for a steak? I wouldn't but, that's one of the things the skillet is made for.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 07:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                          “The 12.6" Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 5* skillet is too large for the quantity of pan sauce you want. Evaporation for smaller quantities would be a problem too.”

                                                                                                                                                          I’m having trouble understanding what you mean here, you wrote “too” in the second sentence; but the two sentences seem to be saying the same exact thing/sentiment (I’m sorry for my fuzzy head, it’s really not you; it’s me). What do you mean here?

                                                                                                                                                          What amount of food do you feel that the 12.6 Proline (Especially for pan sauces) starts to be useful at?

                                                                                                                                                          “The smaller 9.4" skillet is probably best for pan sauces in the quantity you want.”

                                                                                                                                                          Do you feel the pan sauces will evaporate too quickly in the 11”?

                                                                                                                                                          “However between this one and the 11", I personally would want the 11" if I only had one. The 11" is just more flexible and versatile.
                                                                                                                                                          When I do a fine dice on potatoes, I would much rather have the larger space in my 11" skillet. If I want to crisp up potato cakes, or make pancakes (I have crepe pans for this though), or cook chicken leg quarters, the larger skillet is the way to go. The 9.4" skillet will do all these things too but, the larger one does it easier and gives me the option of cooking more.”

                                                                                                                                                          I always enjoy having the option of cooking more and not crowding the pan. When comparing the 9.4 and the 11 do you feel like the 9.4 excels at anything in comparison? Do you feel like the 11 can’t do something that the 9.4 can do?

                                                                                                                                                          “Also, don't confuse an 11" Saute pan with an 11" Skillet. They cook differently and are used for different things. Would you put that 11" Saute pan under the broiler for a steak? I wouldn't but, that's one of the things the skillet is made for.”

                                                                                                                                                          As I’ve written in one of my recent replies to you which you’ll see: I see these pans as very different and that is precisely why I need both, I agree.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                            Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 06:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                            "“The 12.6" Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 5* skillet is too large for the quantity of pan sauce you want. Evaporation for smaller quantities would be a problem too.”

                                                                                                                                                            I’m having trouble understanding what you mean here, you wrote “too” in the second sentence; but the two sentences seem to be saying the same exact thing/sentiment (I’m sorry for my fuzzy head, it’s really not you; it’s me). What do you mean here?"

                                                                                                                                                            "too large" as in "excessively large".

                                                                                                                                                            When I think of "pan sauces", I think of small quantities to accent meat with a drizzle on top or a smear or small "puddle" in a plate to drag meat through.

                                                                                                                                                            Various mushroom gravy and "swiss steak" sauces are very different to me since you are covering the meat with sauce and simmering or stewing in the sauce.

                                                                                                                                                            If I'm going to completely cover a steak in sauce, the smaller skillet is better. The quantity of sauce is less so, preparation is easier and you don't end up with an excessive amount of left over sauce. Evaporation in thinner sauces is also less of an issue in a smaller pan.

                                                                                                                                                            If I am going to accent a steak with a sauce, the larger pan is better. The classic is tilting the skillet and spooning the fond, fats, maybe a little added butter, and various aromatics over the meat as it finishes cooking. A ham steak with some pineapple and a sweet sauce does well this way too.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 07:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                              “If I'm going to completely cover a steak in sauce, the smaller skillet is better.”

                                                                                                                                                              “If I am going to accent a steak with a sauce, the larger pan is better. The classic is tilting the skillet and spooning the fond, fats, maybe a little added butter, and various aromatics over the meat as it finishes cooking.”

                                                                                                                                                              Which fry pans do you mean? We changed the subject to be talking about the 12.6, 11, and the 9.4 so I’m not certain which one you are referring to as the small one and the large one.

                                                                                                                                                              “When I think of "pan sauces", I think of small quantities to accent meat with a drizzle on top or a smear or small "puddle" in a plate to drag meat through.”

                                                                                                                                                              That’s what I mean by pan sauce as well.

                                                                                                                                                              “The classic is tilting the skillet and spooning the fond, fats, maybe a little added butter, and various aromatics over the meat as it finishes cooking.”

                                                                                                                                                              I do this type as well sometimes, but currently not very often (Although I’m probably going to get more into it).

                                                                                                                                                              I still need these questions answered, I’m sorry:

                                                                                                                                                              What amount of food do you feel that the 12.6 Proline (Especially for pan sauces) starts to be useful at?

                                                                                                                                                              “The smaller 9.4" skillet is probably best for pan sauces in the quantity you want.”

                                                                                                                                                              Do you feel the pan sauces will evaporate too quickly in the 11”?

                                                                                                                                                              “However between this one and the 11", I personally would want the 11" if I only had one. The 11" is just more flexible and versatile.
                                                                                                                                                              When I do a fine dice on potatoes, I would much rather have the larger space in my 11" skillet. If I want to crisp up potato cakes, or make pancakes (I have crepe pans for this though), or cook chicken leg quarters, the larger skillet is the way to go. The 9.4" skillet will do all these things too but, the larger one does it easier and gives me the option of cooking more.”

                                                                                                                                                              I always enjoy having the option of cooking more and not crowding the pan. When comparing the 9.4 and the 11 do you feel like the 9.4 excels at anything in comparison? Do you feel like the 11 can’t do something that the 9.4 can do?

                                                                                                                                                              Thank you for all the help Sid, this is really making the difference (Again I’m sorry if I’m asking too many questions).

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 07:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                The 11" skillet is my "big" one. The 9.4" is my "small" one.

                                                                                                                                                                From reading your posts, it seems pretty clear to me that the 11" is the one that fits your needs best. No, it's not the best pan for everything you want to do but, it will do everything you want to do very well. It gives you plenty of room for the bangers, whether the smaller ones or the larger butcher bangers. Sauces would be a little easier to make in the smaller one but, the big one will do them too. It also gives you the space you want for smothered cooking like Swiss steaks. The extra surface area for light pan frying might not be as useful to you as it is for me but, add scrambled eggs and a few other things and I think you will get a lot of use and enjoyment out the skillet like I do.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 08:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  “The 11" skillet is my "big" one. The 9.4" is my "small" one.”

                                                                                                                                                                  Got it.

                                                                                                                                                                  “From reading your posts, it seems pretty clear to me that the 11" is the one that fits your needs best. No, it's not the best pan for everything you want to do but, it will do everything you want to do very well. It gives you plenty of room for the bangers, whether the smaller ones or the larger butcher bangers. Sauces would be a little easier to make in the smaller one but, the big one will do them too.”

                                                                                                                                                                  I’m certainly seeing the same thing you are, about the 11” being the right pan it seems. The 9.4 seems too small and you seem to feel that pan sauces in my amounts will be harder to do in the 11”, but still very doable.

                                                                                                                                                                  Is there anything you think that the 11” will give me trouble with?

                                                                                                                                                                  “It also gives you the space you want for smothered cooking like Swiss steaks.”

                                                                                                                                                                  When did I say I wanted to do smothered cooking? (I must have misunderstood something and misspoke, not that there is absolutely anything wrong with smothered cooking; I’ve just never done it).

                                                                                                                                                                  “The extra surface area for light pan frying might not be as useful to you as it is for me but, add scrambled eggs and a few other things and I think you will get a lot of use and enjoyment out the skillet like I do.”

                                                                                                                                                                  Why do you say that? I love extra surface area whether it is flat or rounded (I’m very much looking forward to the heated sides of the fry pan, especially for things like onions).

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                    DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 10:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    ::: waving madly :::

                                                                                                                                                                    Smothered cooking? I'll do it. Really!

                                                                                                                                                                    Pick me! Pick me!

                                                                                                                                                                    :)

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 10:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      I absolutely pick you, please do the job (I'd have no idea how to do it)!

                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                      Sid Post Sep 1, 2013 12:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      "When did I say I wanted to do smothered cooking? (I must have misunderstood something and misspoke, not that there is absolutely anything wrong with smothered cooking; I’ve just never done it).

                                                                                                                                                                      Why do you say that? I love extra surface area whether it is flat or rounded (I’m very much looking forward to the heated sides of the fry pan, especially for things like onions)."

                                                                                                                                                                      I think you are starting a culinary journey similar to mine. Years ago my cooking was pretty limited in variety and repetitive. When I started buying better cookware, over time how I cooked and what I cooked really changed. And the change was for the better.

                                                                                                                                                                      Some of the changes are pretty subtle, others not so subtle. When I just had my Lodge cast iron skillet, I didn't cook ground meat very often because I hated chasing all the little bits around as I scooped them up with a spoon or spatula. Scrambled eggs didn't occur often because I didn't like the little black specks that always ended up in them.

                                                                                                                                                                      With the Proline skillets and De Buyer mineral pans, I find it much easier to cook ground meats due to the convenience of "sweeping" the little bits out into a dish or plate. Scrambled eggs are also easier to do since these pans are easy to clean and easier to adjust the heat (no more overdone scrambled eggs due to a hot cast iron skillet).

                                                                                                                                                                      Since you like pan sauces, smothered cooking is an easy progression you are likely to try at some point. I do pasta sauces now in my skillet and add the lightly boiled pasta in at the end with a little pasta water to finish cooking. Over time, I suspect you will cook differently as you learn to fully utilize your new cookware. It really is a journey to be enjoyed as you discover new ways to cook.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                        DuffyH Sep 1, 2013 01:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        Sid,

                                                                                                                                                                        What you wrote is so true for me. Since moving to Tampa 3 years ago, my cooking has changed in many ways. It's so much hotter here, for much of the year, that we grill a lot more, and even when we're not, I'm looking to keep cooking times to a minimum. That's how I discovered pan sauces.

                                                                                                                                                                        We do a lot of quick chicken sautés. SB breast cutlets or flaky fish takes only a few minutes to cook, and a quick pan sauce or salsa livens it up. In addition, I've added what seems like a lot of variety, but really isn't. It's the same old, with a different sauce.

                                                                                                                                                                        From there is was a short progression to smothered cooking, which is to me the wintertime comfort extension of our summer routine.

                                                                                                                                                                        I haven't been doing pasta sauces in a skillet lately, but again it seems natural if I wanted to finish chicken in my 4-cheese sauce. I'm now reminded of a skillet sauce I used to make frequently, sort of a "death by garlic" kind of thing, with butter, olive oil, red peppers and lots of garlic. A little grated parm atop the pasta to tie it all together and tame the bite.

                                                                                                                                                                        Hmm....I think that will be showing up as a side very soon. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Sep 1, 2013 01:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          I actually started this journey years ago myself. It’s neat, I read posts of yours talking about how 2 years things starting changing for you in the kitchen and I found myself thinking “I remember going through that, we sound so similar”. I actually find it really interesting to hear how you developed and what affected you before and after, I’m really happy you wrote this out (As I’ve said to you before; it’s fun to hear about what other people do in the kitchen and why).

                                                                                                                                                                          “I didn't cook ground meat very often because I hated chasing all the little bits around as I scooped them up with a spoon or spatula. Scrambled eggs didn't occur often because I didn't like the little black specks that always ended up in them.”

                                                                                                                                                                          I never had the cast iron problems you had, but I certainly have had my fair share of dishes being a PITA to cook in cookware that was hindering more than helping. Strangely, I did the opposite of you; I cooked in improper vessels and just accepted that a change in my cookware in the kitchen would eventually have to happen. (I find it strange I did the opposite of you because on so many other levels we work the same way, it’s very amusing).

                                                                                                                                                                          “Since you like pan sauces, smothered cooking is an easy progression you are likely to try at some point.”

                                                                                                                                                                          Can you define smothered cooking beyond the mushroom dish you described? I’m beginning to think I may not know what smothered cooking is (It was certainly an unfamiliar term to me, but that may just because I am British).

                                                                                                                                                                          “I do pasta sauces now in my skillet and add the lightly boiled pasta in at the end with a little pasta water to finish cooking.”

                                                                                                                                                                          I remember when I first started doing this how easy it was and how much of a better result it made. It’s funny how these simple things (Choice of cookware or certain small steps/techniques) make such a vast difference.

                                                                                                                                                                          “Over time, I suspect you will cook differently as you learn to fully utilize your new cookware. It really is a journey to be enjoyed as you discover new ways to cook.”

                                                                                                                                                                          I think you may think that I am starting out, when really I’ve been on this path (But, with inappropriate cookware) for quite some time. I can see why you thought this though, when I described the uses for what this pan would be used for I purposely picked items that showcased a specific area I needed covered in a very basic way and some often having to do with very specific Proline questions (Like you have pointed out many times that you feel the curve of the sides of the fry pans are unlike any other fry pan you have used) which may have seemed to be about all fry pans of this size. Also a lot of my questions admittedly are being solely asked (Having nothing to do with my personal perception of these fry pan choices) because I like seeing how you think and feel how these pans work best/worst when and why (And if I’m helping Duffy on top of it, more the reason).

                                                                                                                                                                          I most certainly agree that it is an enjoyable journey when we discover new ways to cook and I find that the discoveries never end, just like you can always find another way to utilize a piece of cookware even further (It’s such a fantastic thing).

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                            DuffyH Sep 1, 2013 01:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            Sid,

                                                                                                                                                                            < I didn't cook ground meat very often because I hated chasing all the little bits around... >

                                                                                                                                                                            I chuckled at that. I had exactly the same problem, but mine was chasing meat around a NS or SS frypan. I solved it by cooking the meat in a saucepan.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Sep 10, 2013 05:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              Sid (You might just be busy, but I'm unsure so) if I have said anything that has upset you in any way I am incredibly sorry and please tell me so I can make it better. It was never my intention and if nothing is wrong at all and I'm just worrying over nothing then please just tell me in a quick response, but I wanted to write here just in case. I'm sorry again if I said something.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                Sid Post Sep 12, 2013 07:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                No worries! My computer crashed so, very little time online. I'm also leaving on extended travel and have some family issues to deal with. Long threads have to wait until I have more time other then a few quick "drive by's" while waiting somewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Sep 15, 2013 09:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm so sorry I took so long to respond to this, I got unforeseeably stuck out of town without the internet.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm relieved I haven't said anything wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm incredibly sorry to hear that you are having family issues, I hope that things work out for you soon!

                                                                                                                                                                                  I hope your travel goes well and is happy.

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                  Sid Post Aug 29, 2013 06:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  "My 4.2 quart sauté I will certainly be using for the bulk of my large batches, but it seems you feel like this size is too small for mid size cooking (Which this pan is looking to mainly do, unless you consider 4-5 bangers not to be mid cooking and more like large cooking), is this true?"

                                                                                                                                                                  The size of your bangers is the key here. I will normally cook 2 or 3 sausages from the local butcher at one time. These are generally a 'generous' inch in diameter and are about 8 inches long. 5 will fit in an 11" skillet without over-crowding. If you want to add lots of vegetables and potato, the saute pan will serve you well. If the sides are cooking separately, the skillet will work well (with that much meat, you can over-load it's height with vegetables).

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 06:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    “These are generally a 'generous' inch in diameter and are about 8 inches long. 5 will fit in an 11" skillet without over-crowding.”

                                                                                                                                                                    Are you saying that 5 bangers 1 inch thick, 8 inch long will fit in the 11” fry pan at once or that my usual smaller bangers will fit without overcrowding? If the 11” Proline will fit 5 bangers that are 1 inch thick, 8 inch long then you’ve sold me on it. I forgot that I buy this butcher size of banger on occasion.

                                                                                                                                                                    “If you want to add lots of vegetables and potato, the saute pan will serve you well. If the sides are cooking separately, the skillet will work well (with that much meat, you can over-load it's height with vegetables).”

                                                                                                                                                                    It’s nice to know its limits, this is how I cook as well (Separate pans or all in the sauté).

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Aug 29, 2013 07:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDarkwing,

                                                                                                                                                                      Keep asking questions, please. You're helping me narrow my frypan choices, but with someone else doing the typing. :)

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        Darkwing? Is that referencing something?

                                                                                                                                                                        I'm on it, anything to help out Duffy!

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 29, 2013 07:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          <Darkwing? Is that referencing something?>

                                                                                                                                                                          Quack! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            So you do mean the Disney programme.

                                                                                                                                                                            You're very silly, I didn't think I'd see you quack.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 12:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              <You're very silly, I didn't think I'd see you quack.>

                                                                                                                                                                              I try to avoid acting my age whenever the opportunity arises.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 03:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                And all the more cute it makes you.

                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 06:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        "Are you saying that 5 bangers 1 inch thick, 8 inch long will fit in the 11” fry pan at once or that my usual smaller bangers will fit without overcrowding? If the 11” Proline will fit 5 bangers that are 1 inch thick, 8 inch long then you’ve sold me on it. I forgot that I buy this butcher size of banger on occasion."

                                                                                                                                                                        With 5 of these large "butcher size bangers", the 11" skillet is full, maybe even very slightly crowded but, definitely not "over crowded" to me. You can always cut them in half which makes spacing them around the skillet easier. Your smaller bangers will fit fine and you have the growth space for occasional butcher size bangers.

                                                                                                                                                                        Mmmmm .... crisp natural casings with a great "snap" .... I think I have a labor day meal in the planning stages .... :-D

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 07:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          That’s wonderful to hear. I’m starting to get more and more into buying these butcher bangers, do you think that’s going to be a problem? Or do you feel that the pan won’t truly be crowded, so I won’t need a bigger pan? I don’t want to outgrow this pan.

                                                                                                                                                                          “Mmmmm .... crisp natural casings with a great "snap" .... I think I have a labor day meal in the planning stages .... :-D”

                                                                                                                                                                          With every word, I just want bangers. I hope your labor day has lots of bangers!

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                            Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 08:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            From everything I have read in your posts, the 12.6" is just too large. Sure you can find a reason to "need" this size but, your posts are pretty clear that it is overkill.

                                                                                                                                                                            For the quantities you will normally cook, the 11" skillet will work well. You could be well served with the smaller 9.4" skillet but, your butcher bangers will likely be a little too crowded in it and you definitely will be running out of room if you add additional bangers to the mix.

                                                                                                                                                                            If your cooking needs outgrow the saute and skillet, upgrading to a larger size or additional pan should be easy. Today, I think you are well served with the choices you seem to be favoring.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                              k
                                                                                                                                                                              KungPaoDumplings Aug 30, 2013 08:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              I’m glad to know that it’s clear that the 12.6 just won’t be useful to me, before this run of conversation I really hemmed and hawed over it.

                                                                                                                                                                              “you definitely will be running out of room if you add additional bangers to the mix.”

                                                                                                                                                                              You read me well, most bangers are always lovely.

                                                                                                                                                                              “I think you are well served with the choices you seem to be favoring.”

                                                                                                                                                                              Does it seem like I’m favouring the 11” because I only want one pan or is there a certain aspect in a pan I’m looking for that you feel is me showing signs of favouring it?

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                Sid Post Sep 1, 2013 12:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                I purchased my 11" skillet first because I can always cook less in it and the smaller one can't go bigger. After owning the 11" skillet for a little while, I knew I had made a great choice and shopped around for a great deal for the smaller one to complement it.

                                                                                                                                                                                Since you are limiting yourself to ONE skillet, the 11" is the most logical choice to serve all your needs today and the likely new uses as your cooking repertoire grows.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Sep 1, 2013 02:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  “shopped around for a great deal for the smaller one to complement it.”

                                                                                                                                                                                  What do you find that you personally cook the most in your 9.4”?

                                                                                                                                                                                  “Since you are limiting yourself to ONE skillet, the 11" is the most logical choice to serve all your needs today and the likely new uses as your cooking repertoire grows.”

                                                                                                                                                                                  I wrote in my other reply to you about my cooking repertoire so I won’t repeat it here, but I forgot to add a further explanation to why it is that I only want one fry pan (I can be a bit forgetful/thick).

                                                                                                                                                                                  I only want one fry pan because the way I have found that I work the best in the kitchen is with minimalistic cookware done right, by this I mean that if I have less cookware items (Like instead of having all sizes of different of fry pans and just having one or two) I find myself much for happier because I only have what I need (As things can often cross over) and nothing that goes to waste.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Also when 4 fry pans can have multiple cross over points (Two pans being comfortably able to do the same job) I prefer to just buy 2 that cover the area of my needs instead of having every pan, even if each pan will do certain jobs perfectly instead of another that may only do it comfortably.

                                                                                                                                                                                  All in all the most minimalistic and workhorse cookware in the kitchen I have, the happier I am. I’m an odd one; I prefer certain types of minimalism (Only in certain parts of my kitchen and life though).

                                                                                                                                                                                  I have also completely left out that I will be buying the 7.9” fry pan from Demeyere for many specific small jobs I do in the kitchen that it is perfect for because I completely forgot that I never wrote it on this thread, which knowing this information sheds a different light on what will be in my cupboards.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                    omotosando Sep 2, 2013 08:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    Ah, the 7.9" Proline! I am really loving my new one. I can't tell you what perfect eggs it makes with minimal cleanup. All my other egg pans have been retired.

                                                                                                                                                                                    The Proline basically performs like Teflon. I have to say I haven't tried it yet with no fat at all, but this morning I used a scant teaspoon of butter (over the years after having abandoned Teflon, I got used to cooking eggs with copious amounts of fat to prevent sticking) and it was virtually non-stick. It's nice to not have to load my breakfast eggs up with gobs of fat anymore for the sake of non-stick.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Sep 2, 2013 10:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      It's actually because of you that I decided to use a 7.9" Proline as my dedicated small amount of eggs pan, thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm really glad you like yours so much, it seems to make you really happy and that is really nice to see.

                                                                                                                                                                                      "It's nice to not have to load my breakfast eggs up with gobs of fat anymore for the sake of non-stick."

                                                                                                                                                                                      I really hate having to load them up with copious amounts of butter as well so this is a perfect thing for me to hear.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Tell me if you ever do try it out with no fat at all and how it goes, I'd love to know!

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                        omotosando Sep 3, 2013 12:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Another bonus that I have just recently discovered about my 7.9" Proline is that the lid from the Atlantis 3.2 quart saucepan fits exactly. I was actually just using random lids until I discovered that. I like to poach eggs in a spicy tomato sauce and I usually cover the pan when I poach eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Sep 3, 2013 12:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          That's a great tip, thanks for telling me!

                                                                                                                                                                                          Oddly enough I may actually end up owning the 3.2 quart sauce pan so that will certainly help me out (I like making a certain type of omelet that a lid helps the process).

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                            omotosando Sep 3, 2013 11:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            The Proline is so non-stick it is eerie and I'm beginning to wonder if it is secretly coated with Teflon (which I have tried to steer away from for years, after I read about the health concerns).

                                                                                                                                                                                            This morning I poached eggs in a base of chopped tomatoes in the Proline. Until I acquired the Proline, I made this in Le Creuset and used liberal amounts of olive oil so the poached eggs would slide out of the pan. This morning in the Proline, I put a teeny amount of olive oil, spread it around the pan with a silicon brush and had no sticking whatsoever.

                                                                                                                                                                                            And unlike cast iron, I didn't have to meticulously clean, dry and re-oil the pan when I was done. All those years I wasted with Le Creuset -- if only I had known . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                                                                                              kaleokahu Sep 3, 2013 11:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi, omotosando: "All those years I wasted with Le Creuset -- if only I had known . . ."

                                                                                                                                                                                              You're in good (and large) company on that front.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Does your Proline have the Silvinox finish? Do you think that has something to do with its nonstickiness? Or do you attribute it to something else?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                omotosando Sep 3, 2013 12:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Kaleo. Yes I believe the Proline has the Silvinox finish. I actually have no idea why the pan is so non-stick. It seems almost too good to be true - like there really must be some kind of toxic Teflon like coating that keeps things from sticking. I keep thinking - what's the catch?

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                                                                                                  l
                                                                                                                                                                                                  laraffinee Sep 3, 2013 08:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  There is no non-stick coating on the Proline pans or any of the Atlantis pans. Demeyer does make non-stick pans with some kind of technology that doesn't allow the pan to burn or something like that. I don't have any of those. The Silvinox finish is highly polished stainless steel. It seems non-stick because of the way the heat conducts in the pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: omotosando
                                                                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Sep 3, 2013 12:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                The was you wrote this was really cute; you're actually making me more excited to get these, it's amazing how little oil you used. It's really impressive that nothing stuck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Like Kaleo I'm also curious what you attribute the nonstickiness to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                  b
                                                                                                                                                                                                  bevwinchester Sep 3, 2013 01:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wonder if Demey. would reveal that; just for peace of mind (of course, you know it's a "trade secret"!). I have 1 Demey. Sauté pan & it is a beautiful piece of work! Alas, I am circling very closely on that 11" Proline skillet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: bevwinchester
                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Sep 3, 2013 01:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I wonder if I ask them very nicely if they'd tell me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "(of course, you know it's a "trade secret"!)"

                                                                                                                                                                                                    This gave me a giggle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "I am circling very closely on that 11" Proline skillet."

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oo, what are you thinking that you'll cook in it/how you'll use it?

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                        DuffyH Sep 3, 2013 09:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        KPD -

                                                                                                                                                                                        <I only want one fry pan because the way I have found that I work the best in the kitchen is with minimalistic cookware done right, by this I mean that if I have less cookware items (Like instead of having all sizes of different of fry pans and just having one or two) I find myself much for happier because I only have what I need (As things can often cross over) and nothing that goes to waste.>

                                                                                                                                                                                        This is what I've been hoping to achieve. Currently, I have, between griddles, crepe pans and frypans, about a dozen. Not all get used, of course. I've been phasing out my non-sticks, but have yet to toss them all.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I wanted, initially, to limit myself to one pan each in 8, 10 and 12". I see this isn't going to work because I do a lot of acidic sauces, which means I need non-reactive pans, but the best "natural" non-sticks are cast iron and carbon steel, which are plenty reactive.

                                                                                                                                                                                        So I thought I'd see if I could settle in on 2 pans each size, one CI or CS, and one of stainless. I'm well on my way, with a 12" CI skillet, a 10" CI griddle, and 2 CS crepe pans, 8 and 10". I've also got a new induction 12" stainless frypan, leaving me with just the 8 and 10" stainless needed.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The 8" stainless would see less use than the others, but I still need something lightweight in the 8-10" range for tossing food. That's a problem I've yet to solve. Do I pick up a cheap DeBuyer Force Blue in 9" for that? Maybe.

                                                                                                                                                                                        So like you, I'm on the fence about the 9.4" or 11" Proline. I'm leaning towards the 11", mostly because I can only afford one Proline, and think the 11" will give me the most versatility. The helper handle is a boon for me, especially given the weight of that pan. But then, I've already got 2 flat pans in that size, so perhaps the 9.4" would be a better choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Again, that's my current thinking. As usual, it's subject to change without notice. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                          k
                                                                                                                                                                                          KungPaoDumplings Sep 3, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          “This is what I've been hoping to achieve.”

                                                                                                                                                                                          It certainly can take some time to achieve, but it is certainly worth it.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I like reading about your thought process and how logical it is and how things evolved (It’s interesting to read).

                                                                                                                                                                                          “leaving me with just the 8 and 10" stainless needed.”

                                                                                                                                                                                          I’m glad that you’re coming close to finishing.

                                                                                                                                                                                          “The 8" stainless would see less use than the others, but I still need something lightweight in the 8-10" range for tossing food. That's a problem I've yet to solve. Do I pick up a cheap DeBuyer Force Blue in 9" for that? Maybe.”

                                                                                                                                                                                          That’s precisely the type of thing I’d ask Sid advice about, he’s great at seeing what companies (Like DeBuyer and Demeyere) have and spelling out how it performs/what it feels like (Like weight and depth as a reality versus reading just the facts on paper and having to navigate it yourself blindly).

                                                                                                                                                                                          “So like you, I'm on the fence about the 9.4" or 11" Proline. I'm leaning towards the 11", mostly because I can only afford one Proline, and think the 11" will give me the most versatility. The helper handle is a boon for me, especially given the weight of that pan. But then, I've already got 2 flat pans in that size, so perhaps the 9.4" would be a better choice.”

                                                                                                                                                                                          As Sid has said, you really can’t compare the 11” Proline to another pan that is flat, they are going to perform very differently including that the Proline’s walls heat up so efficiently. It sounds to me that the 11” Proline actually will suit your needs more because you’re right about it being more versatile (As Sid has truly pointed out. Thank you Sid!) and your main concern of it not being right for you seems to be about the similarity it may bear to something you already own, which from how the Proline performs it does not seem likely that it will be too similar for you. Also with your weight needs, I would think the pan with the helper handle would be very important, I’ve heard that the 9.4” still has some heft to it, so it’s a good thing that you are pointing these things out and thinking about them.

                                                                                                                                                                                          “Again, that's my current thinking. As usual, it's subject to change without notice. ;)”

                                                                                                                                                                                          You’re so silly, this made me laugh.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                          2
                                                                                                                                                                                          2babymom Sep 4, 2013 03:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          BBB has a great deal on demeyere 11" proline skillet for $199.99 with 20% off coupon it will be $159.99 but you have to pay extra $35 or something for S & H and tax. But it is a great deal compared to any other websites.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Sep 4, 2013 06:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for writing this here; I knew about this, but kept forgetting to write it here!

                                                                                                                                                                                            The shipping for this would be $15.99.

                                                                                                                                                                                            It is a fantastic deal! Thank you again for writing this, it's great to have updates on sales (Every bit counts).

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm hoping Sid will get back to me soon so I can buy this from BBB soon (Once I know it is the pan for me).

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Sep 7, 2013 01:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              2babymom,

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you! Yesterday the item was out of stock, but it was back today. I went to the store tonight, used a 20% in-store coupon. It's being shipped to my home but BBB is picking up that tab.

                                                                                                                                                                                              My total cost is $176, incl. taxes. I'm happy.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Note that although BBB has no rain checks, they did agree that if the sale was over by the time their vendor had it back in stock, they'd still give me the sale price.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                2
                                                                                                                                                                                                2babymom Sep 7, 2013 07:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Can I buy it in store and make them to ship it to our home? I dont want to pay that shipping price for this beautiful pan.. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                                  DuffyH Sep 7, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  My advice would be to go to the store and ask. BBB has waived shipping costs for me in the past, on items normally found in-store that weren't available, or in one case, they had fewer than I needed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  They may have offered to pay shipping on this pan for a similar reason, as it wasn't available for order and I had to make a return trip to the store just to order it. But I would sure ask.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  If they won't waive shipping to your home, see if they'll ship it to the store at no cost to you. I use that feature with a few shops that are nearby. It's saves a lot of money compared to the cost of a half-gallon of gas.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2babymom Sep 8, 2013 10:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I ordered 11" proline skillet at BBB today with 20% coupon and the price is same like yours $173.99 and no shipping :).

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Sep 9, 2013 05:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Very cool, so glad you got the shipping waived. Did you have to ask or did the store volunteer that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2babymom Sep 9, 2013 07:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I didnt ask her to waive the shipping. She simply ordered that for us and told that shipping will be free and the pan will arrive within two weeks. I am very happy with the service of BBB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Sep 9, 2013 07:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          that's exactly how it worked for me, too. I wasn't sure if it was because the item had been out of stock, and I'd wasted a trip to the store. It's good to know they're just that nice. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Sep 10, 2013 05:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Congrats! That's a great price, tell us how you like it when you use it if you can!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Sep 8, 2013 06:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Congrats on choosing and buying a Proline pan Duffy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any chance for a review here?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Sep 9, 2013 05:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoKittens,

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, indeed. As soon as that sucker arrives, I'll start cooking and report back here. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                        k
                                                                                                                                                                                                        KungPaoDumplings Sep 10, 2013 05:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Again I ask, are those kittens covered in Kung Pao or kittens that can make it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm very excited to hear that, it'll be great to have another vote in on what the 11" Proline can do! I hope you really enjoy it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Sep 10, 2013 08:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          KPD -

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Silly Dumpling! Every zoologist on the planet knows kittens can't make decent Kung Pao anything; they lack opposable thumbs. ;p

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am very excited to get my hands on a Proline. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Sep 10, 2013 08:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Silly Dumpling!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I find this hilarious because my parents nicknamed me "Silly" and my partner used to call me "Dumpling". You have me pinned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Every zoologist on the planet knows kittens can't make decent Kung Pao anything; they lack opposable thumbs. ;p"

                                                                                                                                                                                                            So these kittens are covered in Kung Pao/Kung Pao sauce?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "I am very excited to get my hands on a Proline. :)"

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm excited for you! I know it sounds silly, but I'm really really happy for you and hope you love it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Sep 11, 2013 06:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              <So these kittens are covered in Kung Pao/Kung Pao sauce?>

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kittens being kittens, it's not at all unusual to find them covered in something or other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Also, there are chocolate kittens and cookie kittens, so yeah, Kung Pao Kittens. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Sep 11, 2013 10:10 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sounds spicy, I hope they're okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sid Post Sep 12, 2013 07:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Great chuckle after a bad spell! Thanks!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Chocolate ... cookie ... Kung Pao kittens ..... visions of Hello Kitty now .... THANKS!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Sep 15, 2013 09:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a bad spell, again I hope things get better for you soon!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's funny that you bring up Hello Kitty; I love her!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Here are a couple of fun Hello Kitty images (I do not own either image):

                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: 2babymom
                                                                                                                                                                                                      DuffyH Sep 14, 2013 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      My Proline pan arrived yesterday and I finally got a chance to cook with it tonight. I decided to be mean and make fried rice. I never, ever make this in my SS pans, always in the Tramontina aluminum NS pans. But I thought I'd give it a trial by fire, as it were.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I doubled down and used the same amount of oil I'd use in a NS aluminum pan. I was feeling *really* mean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is it a good stir fry pan? Hell, no. Predictably, my rice began to break down a little bit because it was sticking as I was stirring it. But great stir fry wasn't the point. It made a perfectly acceptable stir fry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It surprised me in several ways. First, it showed the Leidenfrost effect much, much faster than my Calph Tri-Ply pans. I figured that with it's fat aluminum layers it would take more time to heat than the much thinner CTP. Recall that I'm cooking on a POS builder's grade radiant range.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      The second surprise was that it didn't stick the way I expected. Frying rice in minimal oil is not something any SS pan is going to excel at, but this one was passably non-stick, not sticking until the rice went in, then only a bit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's third surprise came in the form of clean-up. I deglazed it with water, then let it sit while I ate dinner. I left the sticky bits on the sidewalls as a control. After dinner, I gave the walls a quick pass with my Oxo palm brush and cold water. Everything came right off. A bit of soap and quick rinse later, it was clean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      At 5 pounds, it's heavy. If I find it being used often enough, I may leave it on the cooktop. But still, with the extra loop handle it's easy enough to maneuver. I had no problem putting it in a cupboard tonight. A note on that loop handle - it could be just a bit wider. My hands are narrow for my size (5'9") and it's hard for me to fit 4 fingers around it. Wider would be an improvement. I like the size of it, too. Time will tell, but I think I may no longer need my 10" and 12" pans. This one seems to hit my sweet spot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      So far, I'm really impressed and thinking it's well worth the price I paid. Would I think the same at full price? Maybe, maybe not. $270 is a lot of green. But at a price point that's close to All-Clad, it's a no brainer. And it's got comfy handles! ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                        kaleokahu Sep 14, 2013 09:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ah, Leidenfrost. As you can see, quite the party animal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Congrats on the new pan and revelations with thick layers of high conductivity. Have fun and please update your review.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Sep 15, 2013 12:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Give the poor guy a break. He gave us dancing water, long before the fountains at Bellagio.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                          l
                                                                                                                                                                                                          laraffinee Sep 14, 2013 11:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wow, you did give it a real test run. The first thing I made in mine was a vegetable Stroganoff, and I remember being surprised how the walls of the pan heated the same as the bottom. Easy clean up is one of the virtues of this pan, besides the fantastic cooking. You are going to love it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had to look up the Leidenfrost effect, but that indeed appears to be a factor in how these pans are relatively non-stick. Kaleo, you are too funny.....poor Leidenfrost!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                            DuffyH Sep 15, 2013 12:47 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            <I had to look up the Leidenfrost effect>

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I used to call it the "mercury ball test" until I read a comment from someone who wondered if playing with mercury around our cookware wasn't just a wee bit unhealthy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            That, plus I just like writing it because it reminds me of the Frost Giants in Thor. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Sep 15, 2013 09:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Duffy I'm so excited for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for writing this whole thing out, it was incredibly fun to read (That was a hard test you gave it!).

                                                                                                                                                                                                            The clean up sounds like such a breeze, like everyone has been saying.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I hope you find that you no longer need your other pans, it sounds like if that were to happen it certainly would be a help to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            On a side note, I was on Sur la Table today and saw your review on this pan on their website; it was really funny because I had read it after I had skimmed this and I knew it was you. This actually happened to me on Amazon as well a couple weeks ago where I read an old conversation where you were talking to some people about how the Calp. tri ply isn't made the same way (The modern induction capable version of the same line) because the new version is thinner and more susceptible to warping. I swear I'm not following you around, even though when I see you on other websites it makes me smile!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Sep 15, 2013 11:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              KPD -

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, I've seen a few other 'Hounds lurking around Amazon, etc... from time to time. It's always re-assuring to me when I find a product review from a person I know a bit about. It gives me a better 'take' on their review.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              That was news to me about the change in Calph. TP. I figured they'd just swap out the outer aluminum and be good to go. It's a shame they didn't do that, because in 12 years I've not had a single pan warp. I have to say that I like the new lids better. My replacement lid is one of the new ones and it fits a little tighter than the originals. Steam still escapes, but not nearly as much as before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Sep 15, 2013 11:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                "It's always re-assuring to me when I find a product review from a person I know a bit about. It gives me a better 'take' on their review."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's precisely how I felt when I saw you on Amazon, reading the conversation I knew how to weigh things and had a comfort that I knew where things were.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                "That was news to me about the change in Calph. TP. I figured they'd just swap out the outer aluminum and be good to go. It's a shame they didn't do that, because in 12 years I've not had a single pan warp."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought the same thing and the reason I ended up on Amazon was because I was trying to figure out how you and Chem.K.s have had your Calph. TP so long when other people have reported so much warping. It was this warping that lead me to reconsider my decision of Calph. TP and go for Demeyere instead. I was really sad hearing that is how Calph. makes their TP now (I was really looking forward to the cookware I had bought at the time).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                "My replacement lid is one of the new ones and it fits a little tighter than the originals. Steam still escapes, but not nearly as much as before."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm glad they are still improving on things, it's nice to know that their quality isn't all gone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Sep 1, 2013 01:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I meant to say here, I didn't think I was ever favouring one pan over the other really (Until we both seem to see at the same time that the 11" probably made the most sense for me); I was just trying to see what the feel and limitations of both pans were. Sometimes people do things without realising they are doing them though, maybe I was. Who knows? I’d believe you if I felt I was though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I never mentioned (I know you like them, but,) the helper handle on the 11" is actually a deterrent for me; I really don't like them, especially since when I'm trying to fit a fry pan in my oven they get in the way. I mention this because I still feel stuck between the 11” and the 9.4”, some of my questions you haven’t answered yet (There were so many though, I understand that you most likely thought you answered them) and it’s still hard for me to come to a solid conclusion about each pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you would like I can collect and repost the questions left on my mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    If I'm asking too many questions, please tell me and I'll stop bugging you. I'm sorry again for asking so many questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                        l
                                                                                                                                                                                        laraffinee Aug 27, 2013 07:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have to buy both at once? Why not get one and work with it for a while and see how you like the line? I started with the 9.4" Proline. I cooked with it for weeks and really loved it and the decided the next one for me would be the 11" Proline. I cooked with that for weeks and then moved on to the 4.2 quart sauté.

                                                                                                                                                                                        If the 4.2 quart sauté is what is calling out to you, get that first and cook with it for a while. You will know what you need when the time comes that you need it.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I have acquired a large set of the Atlantis, piece by piece, and I love and use each one. If you want to keep it to two or so pieces, what's the rush? Enjoy the 4.2 quart sauté for a while.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                          kaleokahu Aug 27, 2013 09:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          "If the 4.2 quart sauté is what is calling out to you, get that first and cook with it for a while. You will know what you need when the time comes that you need it."

                                                                                                                                                                                          Plus 1.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                            k
                                                                                                                                                                                            KungPaoDumplings Aug 28, 2013 04:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            I agree.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sid Post Aug 29, 2013 06:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              I would go the other way personally. I know you like the "look" of the Saute pan but, I prefer the way the skillets cook. I can scoop stuff out easier or, tilt the skillet and "sweep" things out into a plate or platter easily which I cannot do with a straight sided pan like the saute.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Again though, let your personal cooking style make the choice. What works best for me may not be optimal for you due to what we cook and how we cook differently.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post
                                                                                                                                                                                                k
                                                                                                                                                                                                KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 07:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                I like the look of them, but also I need a large flat cooking surface for a lot of shallow frying I do. When I use the sauté pan two thirds of the time it will be doing shallow frying, the rest of the time will be for amounts of food that my fry pan would be overwhelmed by.

                                                                                                                                                                                                "I can scoop stuff out easier or, tilt the skillet and "sweep" things out into a plate or platter easily"

                                                                                                                                                                                                I use fry pans the same way and is why I know I need a sauté pan of this size AND a fry pan, they both have very specific and different uses; except for when the sauté gets used just because the fry pan can't hold as much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                  DuffyH Aug 29, 2013 07:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sid and KPD -

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nice posts. I've just been reminded why I seldom use my sauté pan; it just doesn't fit the way I cook.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Detailed discussions like this one are too rare elsewhere. I'm glad we've got Chow; it's like thinking out loud, with multiple personality disorder.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  At least, it is for me. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                    KungPaoDumplings Aug 29, 2013 07:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thank Sid, I'm just asking questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I used to have a lot of items in the kitchen like that, until I saw them in the cupboard and realised that they were there (They always get forgotten, until you trip over them). After that you look at them and figure out what you do need and gift the old item to someone that can use it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Detailed discussions like this one are too rare elsewhere. I'm glad we've got Chow"

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I completely agree on both accounts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know about disorders, but discussions like this can be very enjoyable, enlightening, and helpful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                      kaleokahu Aug 29, 2013 07:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, Duffy: "I've just been reminded why I seldom use my sauté pan; it just doesn't fit the way I cook."

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Isn't it fascinating how you reach for one pan to the exclusion of another when oftentimes there isn't a cogent reason to differentiate? I think we all are conditioned to pigeon-hole certain dishes (literally) into one particular pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Contrary to Sid, I wouldn't think twice about doing a steak in a saute, because I use sautes a lot. But sometimes it takes a paradigm shift for me (e.g., Gotta have a roasting pan to roast!, or why *can't* I use my large Pommes Anna base as a small rondeau?) to challenge my own conditioning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course the manufacturers *want* us to pigeon-hole even further (Can't braise without a braisiere, can you? You're cooking your lasagna in a *pate terrine*?). I know we differ on this one, but there have been a lot of curved-wall "sauciers" sold on the premise that they work better for sauces than does a Windsor. Likewise the "Essential" pans. I keep waiting for someone with the brass ones big enough to market the "Indispensable" pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyway, yes, I agree with you that we are lucky to have CH and the fellowship of this kind of detailed discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 30, 2013 06:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        As this thread shows, there are a lot of different ways to achieve the same or nearly identical results. I think a lot of it for me is "past experience" not that the other pans don't work well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Like shallow frying mentioned above. I do this mostly in the skillet because I prefer to "sweep" the diced potato out into a plate as a base for something else like a breakfast egg thing (fried, scambled, etc.). Shallow frying happens in my DeBuyer "country pan" like two nights ago when I'm wilting a bunch of greens on top of the light fried potatoes and whatever else got thrown in the pan (sort of like "refrigerator stew" where everything getting a little old gets cut up and put into a nice hearty stew at the end of the week).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                          DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 01:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi Kaleo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                          <Likewise the "Essential" pans. I keep waiting for someone with the brass ones big enough to market the "Indispensable" pan.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                          D'accord! Somewhere along the line, I acquired an "Everyday" pan. Big sucker (13"), 2 loop handles, dome lid; I've been using it forever (albeit infrequently) as a deep frypan. It's best use is to quickly turn out mountains of tortilla chips for our fiestas.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyway, I *thought* it was Calphalon TP, but recently turned it over and found that it's a 13" braisier (well, duh, knew that part), and made in Italy. Surprise! It's got a Kirkland stamp. I've no idea when I got the thing, who it's made by, nor if it was a gift or a purchase. You see how important it is to me. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                            kaleokahu Aug 30, 2013 01:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                                                                                                                                            If it says Kirkland and Italy, it's prolly made by Meyer there. If so, it's the same factory that does the W-S Thermoclad. It's the best-quality facility in the Meyer empire. Maybe not a bad pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aloha,
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kaleo

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                              DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 02:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kaleo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's a pretty nice pan, just too big for my cooking. My son is looking forward to it. He's looking forward to a lot of things as I pare down my kitchen. I'm looking forward to reclaiming some real estate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Where *he'll* put them I've no clue. That's between him and my DIL.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                            DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 02:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey Kaleo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                            <Contrary to Sid, I wouldn't think twice about doing a steak in a saute, because I use sautes a lot. But sometimes it takes a paradigm shift for me (e.g., Gotta have a roasting pan to roast!, or why *can't* I use my large Pommes Anna base as a small rondeau?) to challenge my own conditioning.>

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Talk about conditioning! For just about ever, I've made sausage gravy in my 4.5 qt saucepan. This is how Mom made it, how the Dude makes it, etc... To be clear, all other gravy is made in my 3 qt saucier. Gravy was the *only* thing made in my saucier.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            The saucepans are also used for the usual saucepan things, plus browning ground meats, because if the sausage for sausage gravy doesn't need to be chased around a skillet, why should turkey or beef for meat sauce, or pork for my Hoisin pork?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            So there I am, with 3 similar pans in graduated sizes, and because 1 has splayed sides it can't be used to make soup, or cook tomato sauce or brown meat? All it's good for is gravy? How conditioned is that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            You'll be glad to know I stopped being stupid and re-conditioned myself. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                              kaleokahu Aug 30, 2013 02:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, well, re-conditioning myself has been part of my problem. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                DuffyH Aug 30, 2013 02:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                You made me laugh. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                  k
                                                                                                                                                                                                  KungPaoDumplings Aug 28, 2013 04:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  “Do you have to buy both at once? Why not get one and work with it for a while and see how you like the line?”

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, I do have to order them both at once; I have some ordering constraints that are making it so I have to buy both at once.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  “and the decided the next one for me would be the 11" Proline. I cooked with that for weeks and then moved on to the 4.2 quart sauté.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Being an owner of the 11 Proline and the 4.2 sauté what do you feel are the benefits of having both and what do you cook in each? Also, what do you feel they separately have strengths in (And the other has weakness in, in comparison)? I’m cooking for 3, do you think that the 11 Proline is too small for cooking 3 chicken breasts (In one batch) and making pan sauces or making a one pan pasta dish for 3? What else can you tell me about the two of them?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  “If the 4.2 quart sauté is what is calling out to you, get that first and cook with it for a while. You will know what you need when the time comes that you need it.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                  This is normally what I would do (It’s always what I do), but sadly do not have the option so I am figuring out if (With help from others and their descriptions of what pans are good for what amounts of food and specific tasks) I can buy the proper pan for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  “I have acquired a large set of the Atlantis, piece by piece, and I love and use each one. If you want to keep it to two or so pieces, what's the rush? Enjoy the 4.2 quart sauté for a while.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I’m only keeping my fry pans to two pieces, I will be having many other types of pieces of the Demeyere line.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with Kaleo and Duffy, your advice is absolutely perfect and it’s exactly what I’d follow if I could (I wish I could). Thank you for writing all of this, it certainly helps and I feel like sound advice like this can never be said enough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings
                                                                                                                                                                                                    l
                                                                                                                                                                                                    laraffinee Aug 28, 2013 09:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    You are welcome KPD. It is my pleasure to share what I can.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can't think of any weakness in either the 11" Proline or the 4.2 quart sauté. Some people may find them both too heavy - I do not. If I have to transfer the contents of the 4.2 quart, I can not just flip the pan over into another container - I do have to maneuver and balance it a bit, but I have gotten used to it and it goes well. Most of my cookware is very heavy - good tin-lined copper, Staub cast iron, and the Demeyere Atlantis, so I am used to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The 11" pan is considerably more shallow than the sauté pan, so maximum volume is definitely less. The heat up the wall feature of the Proline is fantastic. I do not cook a lot of meat - vegetables are the bulk of my cooking- many beautiful symphonies of vegetables with refined sauces to heighten the flavor. If I want to sear anything - I pull out the Proline. You will do well with the three chicken breasts in it. When I do cook meat, I do sear in the Proline. Eggplant is divine in the Proline.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    4.2 quart sauté- great for ratatouille, curried cauliflower, and a great vegetable Stroganoff I make - It is great for larger quantities of medium heat cooking. The pan can take higher heat. I caramelize onions all the time - a staple in my cooking, and I have done it in both the 11" and the sauté and in my carbon steel, and in copper too - which one I use will depend on what the onions will be added to and how much will be made. If in a vegetable sauté - then I will caramelize in the sauté pan. If the onions are to be added to a dish toward the end for flavor then either the carbon steel or the 11" with a fantastic fond of the onions in the 11".

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe my indications are too specific, but I can't think of a definitive category of use for each pan. Sometimes I just want to cook with a certain pan, and I don't really think about why. I have made Risotto in many pans, including both the 11" and the 4.2 quart, but most often it will be in my beautifully-shaped-for-risotto, copper pan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe some of the other Demeyere owners have a more logical and definitive criteria for the use of a certain pan and can be of more help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                      k
                                                                                                                                                                                                      KungPaoDumplings Aug 28, 2013 10:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don’t think I’m going to have trouble with the heft either. You mention the 4.2 quart you can’t tip into another container: do you find it easy to tip the 11 inch Proline pan into another container?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      What do you personal find useful about the heat up the wall feature in the Proline/how do you use it/how do you use it to your cooking advantage? I’m glad to hear that 3 chicken breasts will do will in the 11 inch Proline. Why do you prefer to sear in the Proline versus the 4.2 quart sauté?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It’s very interesting (And cute) to read about how you work in the kitchen and what pan you use depending on amount of onion/dish it will be in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You were plenty helpful and I’m very glad you responded. We all like to cook with different pans for different reasons and with different dishes, especially not being consistent. It’s about doing what you enjoy in the kitchen and what you find even just fun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you again and thank you for writing all of this out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: laraffinee
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sid Post Aug 29, 2013 06:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        THANKS laraffinee!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I enjoy reading your posts and how you use your pans. You give me a lot to consider and think about.