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Demeyere vs All Clad vs Mauviel

So I have about $1,000 - $1,600 to spend. I am looking at new cookware and am deciding between the following in the title. I am looking for what I feel is the "Best cookware" I have had Calphalon and Analon Copper Core but I am planning to steer away from non stick and go stainless steel. All you chefs and avid cookers what do you think of my breakdown? I am really feeling the Demeyere, but each line has so many differences I cant decide. I most likely will buy them from Bed Bath beyond with my gift cards.

All Clad D5 or the Copper Core
http://www.all-clad.com/Pages/Collect...

Demeyere - John Pawson or Atlantis-I saw industry5 but I am not sure of it

http://www.demeyere.be/default.asp?CI...

Mauviel M'heritage - I will be honest to me it just looks good, I know it's quality, they all seem to have copper and the stainless steel to surface to cook on, coupled with many handle types.

http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-heritage....

Would love to hear the discussion going here

FYI: I want it to work on Gas / induction / electric. Right now I use gas, I always hand wash as well so dishwashers don't make sense.

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  1. If you go for the copper, get only the 250 (2.5mm) with the cast-iron handles. Note that you must hand wash, it can never go in the dishwasher. But copper does cook best. You could also consider Bourgeat, which cooks the same but has a curved lip for easier pouring without drips. If you go for AC or Demeyere, I would go by which handle feels the best to you. Get some hands-on, lift, try to pour. I like the Demeyere big flat handles (on Industry) better than the old AC, but have not tried the new AC or Atlantis.

    7 Replies
    1. re: mwhitmore

      Thanks mwhitmore, I never use a dishwasher so that's not an issue. I like copper due to how it cooks, I am quite taken by the demeyere line.

      Do you know if there is actually a big difference between the Pawson and atlantis vs the Mauviel and all clad?

      1. re: bombadilio

        Didn't notice the induction, copper won't work. Industry is fully clad like AC. Atlantis sauce pans have the multiple layers on the bottom, but not up the sides. The fry pans are fully clad. Agree with other posters that I would not get a set---there is always one pan you never use, negating the 'savings'. I like to keep different pans for different purposes: Cast-iron, copper, clad and an egg pan.

      2. re: mwhitmore

        What is the main difference between the 150 and 250?

        1. re: bombadilio

          Hi, bombadilio:

          M150 is (approximately) 1.5mm thick, and M250 is supposed to be 2.5mm thick. Bear in mind that those numbers are the *total* thickness, so what you get is more like 1.3 and 2.3 mm of copper, depending on which you choose.

          The difference 1mm of extra copper makes is well worth the extra price. IMO the thinner pans are not worth having at any price--except maybe for decoration or table service.

          Aloha,
          Kaleo

          1. re: kaleokahu

            Hi Kaleo. I have a question about "table service" copper. I bought an oval copper fish pan on Ebay that turned out to be "table service" copper. I haven't measured it, but it is so much thinner than my other copper pieces that it can't be any more than 1.5 thickness at most.

            At first I was dubious and debated about spending the money to retin it, but I did go ahead and retin it.

            I now use it frequently. So far, to make two dishes. One is oil the pan, throw in a piece of seasoned salmon; cook about 6 minutes one side; flip and one minute the other side. The other dish involves chopping up a lot of tomatoes, throwing them in the pan with seasoning and spices and a green pepper, and once I have a nice sauce, throw in some tilapia and cook for short time.

            Both dishes turn out very nicely. But I am curious if the dishes would somehow turn out better or differently if I was cooking with heavier copper. Or what else I could do in a heavier copper fish pan that is lacking in this pan.

            1. re: omotosando

              Hi, omotosando:

              The evenness of heat is generally compromised with thin copper. If you think of the pan's thickness as a pipe or conduit, there's not much capacity to move the heat out away from the heat source, e.g., out into the elipses of your fish pan. Most of the heat tends to go straight up, and unless your hob is very even, you're liable to get scorches at all but the lowest heat.

              OTOH, if your hob is totally even (e.g., is a solid-top) you won't have this problem, *and* the pan will be very responsive because there's so little mass. For example, when you do a meuniere, simply lifting the thin pan off the hob will quickly slow the cooking to a stop.

              Fish pans are strange animals. I've yet to find one that is very thick. Perhaps this responsiveness advantage is the reason they're mostly thin.

              I can posit that if your salmon and tilapia pieces are single and/or small and don't rely on cooking in the ends of the pan hanging off the hob, the results would be very good, maybe no different than in a thick pan. But I'll also wager that you'd see a difference with cooking a long fillet or whole fish the ends of which hang out past the hob.

              That's the best I can do. I hope it helps.

              Aloha,
              Kaleo

              1. re: kaleokahu

                Thanks Kaleo. I will soon pick up a whole fish and report back. However, it will have to be a smaller whole fish because the pan is not large enough for a huge whole fish.

                I'm thinking the weight of the copper probably matters less when I essentially simmer the fish for a few minutes in tomato sauce (that method of making fish seems very forgiving), but would matter more with a pan fry method where you don't have a thick sauce that forgives a lot of sins.

      3. Hi, bombadillo:

        I'd say Mauviel, then Demeyere, then A-C if it were me. But the mauviel is not compatible with induction, unless you get a converter disk.

        You might also consider deBuyer's Prima Matera line.

        Aloha,
        Kaleo

        1. I am not familiar with All Clad or Mauviel M'heritage, but I love my two Demeyere Atlantis pieces (a large sauteuse and a 3.2 quart saucepan) and I just ordered a Demeyere Proline 11 inch frypan (Proline is what Demeyre calls their frypan line). I went with Atlantis over John Pawson strictly on aesthetics - the look of the John Pawson line is just not my aesthetic.

          If you do some research on Demeyere, you will see that what people love are the tight fitting and completely functional lids, the weight and the no rivets, which make cleaning a breeze.

          Kaleo right here on this Board was the one who turned me on to tin lined copper, which I also love (much more than stainless lined copper -- I have one piece of Falk and it is an okay pan, but I much prefer tin lined copper), but I like to have some stainless pieces as well, particularly when doing highly acidic simmers; hence, the addition of Demeyere in my kitchen.

          The downside of Demeyere is the price. I'm thinking of filling in my kitchen with some inexpensive Sitram Profisserie pieces. For instance, there are some teas I like to make where you are supposed to simmer the tea in the water on the stovetop rather than boiling the water in a kettle and then infusing with hot water in a pot. Sitram Profisserie makes nice lipped saucepans that would be perfect for that. Copper and Demeyere are complete overkill for simmering tea in water.

          So I definitely think you need different kinds of pots and pans in the kitchen for different purposes. Much as I love my Demeyere, I would never try to make scrambled eggs, omelets or pancakes in stainless steel -- it is just too sticky for me for that purpose. Also I make a lot of fish on the stovetop -- I haven't tried the Demeyere for that purpose. For something delicate like fish where you really don't want to risk stickiness, I just instinctually reach for the tin lined copper.

          1. If you are serious about induction, the copper is not your best choice, you will need a way to adapt it to induction. The Demeyere Atlantis is a disc bottom design with a very heavy bottom disc. This is great for heat distribution, but some pans, a large saute for example, are quite heavy, one will not be "jumping" food in one of these for very long. Other than that, it's great cookware. Many, myself included, find the All Clad handles, even the new ones, uncomfortable. I don't like the angel or the shape. It is however good quality 5 ply construction. The Demeyere Industry 5 has a different handle with a texture on it, I've never cooked with it, but just to grab one in the store, I'm a bit uneasy with it. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but make sure you handle any new pots and pans you are considering, they all have their own personality. All the cookware on your list is high quality and will cook well.

            4 Replies
            1. re: mikie

              I was at Sur La Table and they said that the Mauviel line is magnetic and should be able to do induction. I am not so sure about that. I like the handles on the Mauviel but they seem to be cast iron and could get hot.

              1. re: bombadilio

                Unless something has changed very recently, Mauviel copperware will not function on any induction hob offered in the U.S.

                No, even if the Mauviels *did* work, the iron handles would not get hot. Induction only heats the very bottom of the pan, at most a few millimeters above the glass. But the handles are not insulated, so they could gradually get hot from the contents.

                Nota Bene: Don't always trust what the sales associates at SLT say.

                1. re: bombadilio

                  Mauviel does make two lines of cookware that are induction compatible. They're just not made of copper.

                  http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-cook.html...

                  http://www.mauvielusa.com/M-stone2.ht... <- non-stick though, not what you said you want.

                  To make your dilemma bigger, check out Fissler and Sitram as well. All available through BB&B.

                  1. re: cutipie721

                    And they formerly made a third line, called Induc'Inox or somesuch, that people rave about working best of all on induction (Hi, Politeness). The problem with that line is that it was SS-clad steel, and so performed poorly on conventional hobs. And so didn't sell, and so was discontinued. Used pieces can still be found, though.

              2. I have both AC and Demeyere. The AC handles are uncomfortable for me and one of my pans warped. I have recently gone thru a phase of researching and purchasing some new pans to fill in some gaps in my collection or replace some items. I didn't even consider additional AC pieces given my experience with the pieces I already owned (1.5 sauce pan, 8 inch skillet, and 2 qt saute pan).

                I purchased both the 11" and 9.5" Demeyere proline skillets, but returned the 11". They are both beautiful, high quality pieces, but the the 11" was just way too heavy for me. I ordered the 11" Viking 7 ply instead, and I absolutely love that, as well as my 9.5" Demeyere. I have the 9.5" Viking, as well - totally unnecessary, I know, couldn't help myself!

                I also have the Viking 3 qt saute pan, which is great. Probably redundant with the 11" skillet b/c the sides are the same height on both and the saute has just slightly more flat cooking surface. Viking is made by Demeyere in Belgium. Slightly lighter, and with riveted handles instead of welded, but that's ok with me. I love all three of my Viking pieces.

                You may also want to consider some enameled cast iron - a dutch oven if you don't already have one, or a braiser (which is really a great multi-purpose pan to have). I love my Le Creuset 3.5 qt braiser, but I would not repurchase that now, given how redundant it is with my 3 qt saute and 11" skillet. Also, it is quite expensive and Lodge has an enameled 3 qt casserole that works just as well and costs so much less. I think a Lodge enameled or a Tramontina would be good alternatives to a Le Creuset dutch oven, if you didn't want to pay the LC prices.

                135 Replies
                1. re: kimbers324

                  I too, have Viking 3qt and 6 qt saute pans, this was because of the weight of some of the alternatives and I find the handles to be quite comfortable.

                  1. re: kimbers324

                    Hmmm. I have the 11 inch Demeyere skillet on order. Hope it doesn't prove too heavy for me. I am used to heavy copper.

                    Since you own both the Demeyere and Viking 9.5 skillets, how would you compare them? Viking is significantly less expensive; is the Demeyere worth the extra money?

                    1. re: omotosando

                      If you are used to heavy copper, the 11 inch Demeyere Proline is no big deal.

                      I don't have Viking and didn't go for the Viking even though the price was seductive because I hate rivets.

                      1. re: omotosando

                        Practically speaking, no. The Demeyere is gleaming shiny and has no rivets from the handle. The Viking is more of a matte, brushed finish with rivets. Both are weighty but even the 9.5" Demeyere is quite heavy. I happened to order them both so it was hard to part with one when I saw them. If I was in a store and was purchasing only one pan, a 9.5", I'd probably choose the Viking b/c of the more reasonable cost and the fact that the rivets are not an issue for me. It is a great pan. If I was purchasing both an 11" and 9.5" (which was my original intention, even though I ended up with two 9.5"), I'd go for the Viking 11" and Demeyere 9.5" for the variety. But that is not practical. The Viking 11" and 9.5" is so much more practical - and both are excellent, manageable, top-of-the-line pieces. I'll be interested to know what you think about the Demeyere weight. I simply couldn't handle the 11".

                        1. re: omotosando

                          I own two Demeyere Proline 5* skillets and love them. I'm sure Viking is nice but, for the small difference in price I am glad I bought Demeyere. These are the best stainless steel skillets I have ever used.

                          9 1/2 inch models can be had for $150 delivered and the 11 inch model was $200.

                          The curved Saucier and Saucepan are really nice too!

                          1. re: Sid Post

                            The price of Proline has gone up. The cheapest price I could find yesterday when I ordered the 11 inch online was $260.

                            Is the Proline deep enough to simmer chicken thighs? A few weeks ago I totally discolored a brand new tin lining on a copper sauté pan making this recipe that called for a long simmer in a sauce of coconut milk and apple cider vinegar. I was hoping to be able to use the 11 inch Proline for dishes like that, but not sure if it is deep enough.

                            Also is there anything you ever make in the Proline where you wish you had a lid?

                            1. re: omotosando

                              Also do you have any suggestions for lids for Proline? I am just looking through the cookbook "Jerusalem" and there is an interesting recipe for beef meatballs with fava beans. It says to make the meatballs in an extra large frying pan with a lid. So the 11 inch Proline only fits half the bill.

                              1. re: omotosando

                                I use the lid from the 4.2 quart sauté from the Atlantis line. It is also 11".

                                Cutlery and More (www.cutleryandmore.com) has 20% off today. I got most of my Demeyere from them and usually during such sales. If the discount does not activate, call them directly and ask. They are good about that.

                                1. re: laraffinee

                                  With patience, you can buy Demeyere Atlantis for ~50% off MSRP. Impulse buys aren't discounted that significantly nor are brick and mortar in store purchase. However, Henckels bought Demeyere a while back so they periodically have sales and various discounts that have brought prices down significantly.

                                  1. re: laraffinee

                                    I'm looking at the Demeyere Atlantis line and I was wondering if you or someone else could help me find these measurements:

                                    I'm looking at the Demeyere Atlantis 12.6 inch Proline pan and was wondering, when measured on the inside bottom of the pan (Not the outside/back of the pan or the top diameter or measuring any of the curved edge) what does the bottom diameter measure in inches (Only the flat surface area inside of the bottom of the pan)? I also was wondering the same information for the Demeyere Atlantis 4.2 quart Saute pan.

                                    I know that you may only have the 4.2 quart Saute, but any information would be appreciated or advice on someone who you may know that owns the 12.6 Proline fry pan so I can ask them.

                                    Thank you in advance, this information is really helpful, and thank you to anyone else that can help me too.

                                    And sorry to anyone who has received this message multiple times.

                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                      Hi, KPD:

                                      The 4.2Q saute is 11"/28cm in diameter.

                                      The Proline 12.6"/32cm fry pan has a floor that is 10.2"/26cm in diameter.

                                      For other dimensions of Demeyere pans, see: http://www.demeyere.be/media/demeyere...

                                      Aloha,
                                      Kaleo

                                      1. re: kaleokahu

                                        Thank you so much Kaleo!

                                        That helps me a tonne : )

                                          1. re: kaleokahu

                                            I've seen you around a lot on here and I just wanted to say I'm really glad you're on here and answering questions, you're very helpful.

                                              1. re: kaleokahu

                                                We can't always be perfect, you're welcome.

                                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                                  You? Spew? Slander! :)

                                                  On topic, have you used the DM skillets? My understanding is that the Silvinox finish helps keep the pan shiny. Does it help with performance in any way?

                                                  Have you tried the Proline pan, and if so, does it live up to the hype, i.e. more non-stick than ordinary stainless, etc...? I know you've cooked on induction before, is there a chance you've used DM on it?

                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                    Hi, Duffy:

                                                    I've played with the DM pans, but I don't own any. The Tripl'Induc bases are supposedly optimized for induction efficiency, but not at the expense of working on conventional hobs like the fabled (and now-retired) Mauviel Induc'Inox.

                                                    The Silvinox is a strange finish. I recall that it's a high-tech spayed molten metal. It imparts a minor streaky texture, and the newer pans with it are indeed shiny. The texture may also help with stickiness.

                                                    The 5-star Proline skillets are a full 4.8mm thick, so they should be extremely even. They feel heavy, even for an aluminum core pan. The hype about nonstick I'm not sure about.

                                                    You might also like the Control'Induc feature, which renders the base non-magnetic at temperatures >485F--far less likely to warp or delam a pan.

                                                    Seattle's best indie kitchen store recently went OOB and liquidated. I meant to buy their full set of cutaways of all the DM pans, but the line stretched for blocks so I passed.

                                                    THe build quality and finish are excellent. They even have a designer line, Pawson.

                                                    Aloha,
                                                    Kaleo

                                                    1. re: kaleokahu

                                                      "The 5-star Proline skillets are a full 4.8mm thick, so they should be extremely even. They feel heavy, even for an aluminum core pan. The hype about nonstick I'm not sure about."

                                                      Yes, Yes, and non-stick? Better than the cheap pans I owned long ago but, my technique is better now too.

                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                        Sid Post, you write a lot of loving posts about the Demeyere Atlantis/Proline cookware, what type of stovetop do you use with it?

                                                        And it's true, you can have the best pan, but if your technique is bad your food is still going to stick.

                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                          In recent history it has generally been a cheap electric coil stove. It sees limited use on Induction for generally light duty stuff.

                                                          As I have mentioned elsewhere, even on undersize coils I get heat clear to the outer edge of the pan. I still like lots of iron (cast generally) for a great sear on a weak stove but, for everything else I don't see the need to dump so much heat energy into a pan so an alternative skillet is called for.

                                                          The Demeyere is so easy to work with .... why mess with success? Hence my follow on purchases.

                                                          1. re: Sid Post

                                                            I currently am stuck on a very old weak electric coil stove, so I am more than thrilled to hear all of this. Reading your posts from different threads has really given me a sense of how well Demeyere works and I'm really excited to get some of my own now.

                                                            "As I have mentioned elsewhere, even on undersize coils I get heat clear to the outer edge of the pan."

                                                            I really love this about the cookware, this is actually one of my top 5 reasons I'm incredibly excited to get some Demeyere into my collection.

                                                            "I still like lots of iron (cast generally) for a great sear on a weak stove but, for everything else I don't see the need to dump so much heat energy into a pan so an alternative skillet is called for."

                                                            I work the same exact way.

                                                            There is no reason to fix the unbroken.

                                                      2. re: kaleokahu

                                                        "The Tripl'Induc bases are supposedly optimized for induction efficiency, but not at the expense of working on conventional hobs like the fabled (and now-retired) Mauviel Induc'Inox."

                                                        I don't know what you mean here, can you elaborate please?

                                                        "I meant to buy their full set of cutaways of all the DM pans, but the line stretched for blocks so I passed."

                                                        What is a cutaway?

                                                        You seem to really like the Demeyere brand, what cookware do you actually own and why? (I'm not trying to stir people up) But, you use a gas stove too, correct?

                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                          Hi, KPD:

                                                          1. Different formulations of ferritic steel and iron work better or worse on induction. It's not a simple matter of "works" or not. The Demeyere Tripl'Induc is supposedly optimized for that AND the rest of the construction makes it also great on gas, electric, etc. The Mauviel Induc'Inox was excellent on induction, but mediocre on everything else by virtue of it being SS-carbonsteel-SS clad. It fizzled and was discontinued, but some induction fans swear by it.

                                                          2. A cutaway is a small section of a pan, sawn through, so you can see and measure the layers inside. Demeyere is one of the few companies that doesn't try to hide the actual thicknesses of its layers. Most companies will show a *diagram* of the layers, but never to scale or disclose the actual thicknesses.

                                                          3. I have no Demeyere, although if I found a piece at a low price, I'd buy it. I still have some LC, Staub, straight-gauge aluminum, vintage CI, and one W-S Thermoclad skillet I was given to evaluate. But the huge majority of my cookware is vintage tinned copper. I find it just works better for me.

                                                          4. I'm lucky enough to have several stoves in my houses. In the summertime I cook on gas, coil electric and I have a radiant cooktop in a cabin. I have the Aroma induction hotplate. But Fall to Spring, I mostly cook on a wood and coal-fired range.

                                                          Aloha,
                                                          Kaleo

                                                          1. re: kaleokahu

                                                            Hello Kaleo,

                                                            1. I understand know, I'm really glad to hear that the rest of the construction is also great for everything else. I heard that about the Mauviel Induc'Inox on another one of these conversations, I guess if you have induction it's worth trying those out to see if they are as good as they sound.

                                                            2. The fact that they actually don't hide that is one of the reasons I like the company, what were you looking to use the cutaways for? Sounds interesting.

                                                            3. So, is the reason you don't any Demeyere about affordabilty and that you really like your vintage tinned copper/have you cookware needs met with your current pieces? What does Cl stand for?

                                                            4. That's a lot of options. What do you find coil electric good for? It never seems like it's good for much of anything. What is a radiant cooktop? The wood and coal fire sounds lovely.

                                                            Thank you for the information.

                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                              Hi, KPD:

                                                              Induc'Inox is not easy to find, and it's now esoteric.

                                                              I would have kept the cutaways just as a reference. I've actually floated the idea here on CH of starting a cookware "library" that includes cutaways and loaner/demo pieces for passaround, so people *know* what they're buying beforehand.

                                                              Electric coil is good for pretty much anything that doesn't require a flame or fast downward response. It's very even heat. A radiant hob is an electric element placed below a glass cooktop surface--the heat is transferred (mostly) by radiation rather conduction as with a coil.

                                                              I don't have any Demeyere for both reasons. My copper performs better, and the DM is quite expensive to buy at retail. I prefer to put my cookware money into specialty pieces of copper or upgrades as best-quality pans appear for resale.

                                                              The solid-fuel stove has been a joy--a hot, dirty, demanding, challenging, complicated thing--but a joy. The rituals of it are amazing, and it trains you to be in the moment. Fueling it on the West Coast with Pennsylvania anthracite is a headache, but we have lots of fruitwood here that burns long and hot. For a couple of months in the Fall and Spring, it supplies all the heat the house needs. Next step is to hook it up to the hot water system...

                                                              Aloha,
                                                              Kaleo

                                                              1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                Hello Kaleo,

                                                                I know it is, but I was just saying for the enthusiasts.

                                                                A "library" like that would be brilliant, that would absolutely be a solid resource for those that are trying to see what they are getting into and trying to understand the choices.

                                                                I never knew that electric could be so even, that's really interesting to know. What cookware requires flame or fast downward response? I now understand what a radiant hob is.

                                                                That makes a lot of sense about why you don't own any.

                                                                That reminds me a lot of how my Gran cooks, it gives me those warm feelings of home. Hooking it up to your water system sounds very exciting, I hope it goes well.

                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                  Hi, KPD: "What cookware requires flame or fast downward response?"

                                                                  Cookware doesn't. It's the prep that might.

                                                                  Aloha,
                                                                  Kaleo

                                                                  1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                    What prep requires flame or fast downward response?

                                                              2. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                To anyone in the future that may be wondering:

                                                                CI stands for Cast Iron. On this website currently upper case "i" and lower case "L" look the same.

                                                          2. re: kaleokahu

                                                            Hey Kaleo,

                                                            Thanks. A spectacular frypan is one thing I might be willing to pay $$$ for. The single positive thing about my radiant range is that it's so easy to get even heat across any pan, more so than any other cooker. DM sounds pretty good, and owners all rave about it, more so than many other cookware lines, except maybe Mauviel or Falk.

                                                            <You might also like the Control'Induc feature, which renders the base non-magnetic at temperatures >485F--far less likely to warp or delam a pan.>

                                                            I need that for my CS pans!

                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                              "DM sounds pretty good, and owners all rave about it, more so than many other cookware lines, except maybe Mauviel or Falk."

                                                              That's actually why I'm looking into it (I've also been looking for cookware that is also welded handles and metal lids). I haven't seen anyone say anything bad about Demeyere except the price.

                                                          3. re: DuffyH

                                                            I have the Proline 11 inch skillet and find it more nonstick and easier to clean than other stainless pans I have owned. I do use a bit of oil in it and don't try to cook with it like it is Teflon so I can't say how it would perform with no oil at all, nor have I tried to cook eggs in it (the ultimate test of a pan's stickiness).

                                                            I have a gas stove, so I can't comment how the DM would cook on induction.

                                                            1. re: omotosando

                                                              That is really awesome that it's easier to clean and is more nonstick, why do you personally think that is?

                                                              "and don't try to cook with it like it is Teflon"

                                                              What does it mean to cook with a pan as if it were a Teflon pan? Do you mean without fats?

                                                              Tell me if you try eggs in it and how it goes, I'd love to know if you ever do.

                                                              Do you find that your Demeyere cooks very well on your gas stove?
                                                              (I ask because when I ideally use the Demeyere I'm going to have in the future, I will be using it on gas and most thoughts on Demeyere's preformance seems like it is coming from induction users, which Demeyere themselves use. That is actually why I asked Sid Post what his stovetop is, since he is very emphatic on how well it preforms for him).

                                                              1. re: omotosando

                                                                omotosando,

                                                                <I have the Proline 11 inch skillet and find it more nonstick and easier to clean than other stainless pans...>

                                                                I've heard the same from other owners. Makes me think there's got to be something to it. I'm not real concerned about cleaning as I've always thought stainless is ridiculously easy to clean. Still, easier is easier and not to be sneezed at.

                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                  "Still, easier is easier and not to be sneezed at."

                                                                  I completely agree with you.

                                                    2. re: kaleokahu

                                                      In case anyone is wondering the link from Kaleo above, which is information that comes from Demeyere when Demeyere is measuring the base of an item they are measuring the outside bottom of the pan.

                                                      This was proven here by Sid Post:
                                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9058...

                                                      Demeyere lists the Proline 12.6 fry pan as having a base of 10.2 as Kaleo has said, but when Sid Post measured the truly flat portion of the inside of the pan the pan measured 8.5 inches, not the 10.2.

                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                        The curved portion starts out VERY shallow. Add in a short 1/4" thickness, and the measurements can vary ~1/2 inch (twice the thickness). I will say that I feel it cooks larger than a 10 inch and feels like a generous 12" skillet even though the truly flat portion seems small. This skillet is well thought out.

                                                        Give it time to warm up on a weak coil and it will work well. However, don't expect wonders if you plop down a huge cold piece of meat and suck all the heat out the pan while a weak coil continues to sputter. Manage your heat and you will be very happy.

                                                        1. re: Sid Post

                                                          It really sounds wonderfully thought out, it seems you get a lot for the area that it provides. That's really lovely in a pan.

                                                          It makes me happy when you point out that these preheat so well given that I'm currently working on a weak electric coil. I'm happy that I'm finally going to have cookware that can work properly, even on it.

                                                          Also, great advice to those starting out in cooking about letting meat come to room temperature, it can't be said enough.

                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                            KungPaoDumplings, you sound a lot like myself in terms of what we currently have to cook with.

                                                            With a good thick cast iron skillet for a hard sear on meat (large thermal capacity for a weak heat source) and a very even skillet for gentler cooking, you will have a great set of cooking options. I also use a DeBuyer "country pan" for fatty meat that pops and splatters (ground beef for example) and do the initial cook there to pull off the fat and brown in small batches were I transfer the results to the skillet for a gentler simmer, light fry, etc. with other food items. I like the tall sides to contain the mess and to keep the bulk of the fat out of the skillet.

                                                            1. re: Sid Post

                                                              It sounds precisely like we have the same, that's why I've been so excited to hear what you've been saying about the performances since I'll know what to expect in my kitchen.

                                                              That's exactly what I do too, I’ve been using the same set up of cast iron searing and gentle cooking on SS for years (It makes me giggle reading what you wrote above on how you cook in the kitchen because of how many similarities we have in the kitchen). The DeBuyer set up sounds like it works great for you, nice and efficient; I really like frying in pans with high sides myself, the difference on the mess is huge.

                                                              What exactly is a country pan?

                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                KPD -

                                                                <What exactly is a country pan?>

                                                                Now you've done it. You had ask, didn't you? Sid looooves his country pan. But we don't make lifestyle judgements here. ;)

                                                                Disclaimer - Sid knows I would love a country pan, too, but it's just too darned heavy for me. I have weak, skinny wrists.

                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                  I've let loose something have I?

                                                                  I'm sorry in advance.

                                                                  So, what exactly is one?

                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                    KPD -

                                                                    It's one of these:

                                                                    http://www.finestcookware.com/catalog...

                                                                    There are less expensive ones on the same site (see the Force Blue and Carbone, all made by DeBuyer) but this one has the best picture. I'll let Sid fill in the details for you. He cooks with it frequently.

                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                      (Just so you know for some reason when I clicked the link it redirected me to choose country. If you choose country and then reclick this link it will bring you to the right website.)

                                                                      It looks like a flat bottomed conical, how interesting. I'll had Sid fill me in.

                                                                      Thank you Duffy!

                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                        http://www.debuyer.com/images/product...
                                                                        http://www.debuyer.com/product.php?id...

                                                                        I have the 32cm (5614.32) De Buyer Mineral "Country Pan". It is similar to the "fry pan" but has ~3.5 inch high sides. It is about 6 pounds empty. I use it a lot. My skillets can fry bacon fine but, this pan fries more bacon at one time with less mess. Fatty ground meats see this pan a lot too. It makes a good surrogate for my Lodge cast iron skillets. It is too deep to fry an egg but, I do have those wonderful skillets for that task.

                                                                        The crepe pans work great for pancakes and I have been known to use one for a steak occasionally when I sear one and toss the whole thing in the oven to finish. I own a bunch of the De Buyer pans and really enjoy using them too when I have the need for something different like home made sweat potato french fries in the "fry pan".

                                                                        Buy the Demeyere skillets first! Then we can work on the De Buyer mineral pans ..... :-D

                                                                        1. re: Sid Post

                                                                          Notice I used the plural on the Demeyere "skillets"!!!!!

                                                                          1. re: Sid Post

                                                                            Sid,

                                                                            Thank you for mentioning them in the plural. If you could only have one, which would it be? I'm stuck between 9.5" and 11". I have a 12" Lodge CI and a 12" tri-ply, and an 11" lodge round griddle.

                                                                            I was leaning towards the 11", but knowing I can sear on the sides of the pan means the 9.5" could work without crowding the food. I'm usually cooking for 2. Your thoughts?

                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                              Sid will certainly steer you the right way!

                                                                              I'm curious: what are you looking to cook in the pan?

                                                                              I'm asking this, trying to get to know you and your personal style, seeing the other pans you own.

                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                KPD,

                                                                                Most of the time it will be called on to sear chicken breasts then produce a pan sauce. I'll pan-fry breaded fish in it, too. I'll sear roasts in it or the 12" clad, depending on the size of the roast. The 12" clad will do all these things, and has, but it's too big for a quick pan sauce for 2. The liquid just evaporates off the large surface.

                                                                                That'll cover about 90% of it's usage. I deep fry lots of things in the 12" Lodge CI. It's also used for hash browns, blackened chicken/fish and a few other things. The Lodge 10.5" round griddle is used, along with my 2 DeBuyer crepe pans (8" FB and 10.5" Carbone) for many things. Eggs, grilled sandwiches, breakfast sausage patties, quesadillas, salmon cakes, really almost anything that doesn't need a pan with sides. I've cooked burgers on the Lodge griddle and the Carbone pan with great success. The DB crepe pans excel at (duh) crepes and pancakes. I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.

                                                                                I've got a number of other frypans now that won't make the switch to induction, so I haven't mentioned them. The only thing my induction arsenal will lack is something light for tossing veggies. They're my go-to sides, normally quick-cooked with some aromatics in butter or evoo. For those I'll likely pick up something lightweight in ~9" size.

                                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                  “The liquid just evaporates off the large surface.”

                                                                                  I’ve had that problem before too; at least it’s an easy fix.

                                                                                  “The Lodge 10.5" round griddle is used, along with my 2 DeBuyer crepe pans (8" FB and 10.5" Carbone) for many things. Eggs, grilled sandwiches, breakfast sausage patties, quesadillas, salmon cakes, really almost anything that doesn't need a pan with sides.”

                                                                                  Why do you prefer these pans for these tasks instead of a frying pan?

                                                                                  “I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.”

                                                                                  That’s very cute, at least you remember now you have it for next time.

                                                                                  “The only thing my induction arsenal will lack is something light for tossing veggies. They're my go-to sides, normally quick-cooked with some aromatics in butter or evoo. For those I'll likely pick up something lightweight in ~9" size.”

                                                                                  Sounds delicious, it’s a good thing that Demeyere has one around 9 inch size (As I’m certain Sid will tell you), they also have a 7.9 inch as well if the 9.4 is too big for the job.

                                                                                  1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                    "“I once had all 3 pans going at once for pancakes. That was the day my Dude reminded me that we had an electric griddle that made lots of pancakes at once. Oops.”

                                                                                    That’s very cute, at least you remember now you have it for next time."

                                                                                    I actually bought additional crepe pans so I had one for each burner for those times when I want quantity. I find the crepe pans just work a lot better. Plus, where do you store the electric griddle? The crepe pans are also multi-taskers versus being a uni-tasker like the electric griddle.

                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                      Sid,

                                                                                      <Plus, where do you store the electric griddle?> In the pantry, on end.

                                                                                      <The crepe pans are also multi-taskers versus being a uni-tasker like the electric griddle.>
                                                                                      It's no more a OTP than crepe pans. I don't bring it out that often, but when I do, it's worth it. My 4 grandsons can plow through pancakes faster than I can make them. It's also good for times when I want a lot of bacon without heating the oven. Let's see.... 2 full-size or 4 small quesadillas, half a dozen grilled sandwiches, there are many uses, all of which seem to begin with "Hey Nana, what's for....?"

                                                                                    2. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                      KPD,

                                                                                      <Why do you prefer these pans for these tasks instead of a frying pan?>

                                                                                      Let me count the ways.

                                                                                      1. No sides means food is incredibly easy to turn or flip.
                                                                                      2. Grilled cheese and quesadillas/flour tortillas taste WAY better when cooked in a pan that's been seasoned. I used to think it was just me, but other 'Hounds have said the same thing. CS and CI make food taste better than non-stick or stainless. I realize they'd taste good coming out of a frypan in the same materials, but IMO the ability to cook them without a spatula improves the taste.
                                                                                      3. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats my deBuyer Force Blue crepe pan for re-heating pizza. I gets the most amazing crunchy crust. I've never tasted leftover pizza that even comes close. Again, no spatula improves the flavor.
                                                                                      4. Guests are super impressed when I walk the pan to their plate and slide the food onto it. Yes, this can be done with a frypan, but some foods can get hung up on the slope of the side. Not so with a crepe pan. It looks so darn chef-y.

                                                                                      I'll most likely pick up a carbon steel frypan one of these days, I've just been putting it off until I change out my range. Until then, I've still got a few non-stick aluminum pans that are getting the job done.

                                                                                      <it’s a good thing that Demeyere has one around 9 inch size (As I’m certain Sid will tell you), they also have a 7.9 inch as well if the 9.4 is too big for the job.>

                                                                                      I think I'll only be able to afford one DM skillet, and will go with something lighter and less expensive for veggies and other tossed foods, where even heating and thermal mass aren't issues. I'll likely score something in the 9-10" range at TJ Maxx or pick up a Tramontina from Walmart.

                                                                                      1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                        I’m a little confused, how does not using a spatula improve flavour?

                                                                                        Very informative list, thank you for writing this all out (It’s nice to get to know your style), you’re very cute writing this list bytheway.

                                                                                        “I think I'll only be able to afford one DM skillet, and will go with something lighter and less expensive for veggies and other tossed foods, where even heating and thermal mass aren't issues. I'll likely score something in the 9-10" range at TJ Maxx or pick up a Tramontina from Walmart.”

                                                                                        That makes a lot of sense, I hope you find what you need!

                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                          ICanHazDumplings,

                                                                                          <I’m a little confused, how does not using a spatula improve flavour?>

                                                                                          Crusty food untouched by foreign objects tastes better. This is known.

                                                                                          No, seriously, it's not turning and flipping sans utensils that makes the food better, it's cooking it in a seasoned pan. Especially when said pan has many layers of butter baked into it. I've made the same foods on non-stick and stainless pans, and the food is just not as good. It's about the crust on sandwiches and re-heated pizza. Eggs pick up a subtle richness in a seasoned pan that's hard to describe. So do hash browns.

                                                                                          Also, I love my crepe pans because I look so damn cool when I cook without utensils. I do it as often as possible.

                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                            You're really making me want dumplings right now.

                                                                                            I thought this was exactly what you meant, but "but IMO the ability to cook them without a spatula improves the taste" and "Again, no spatula improves the flavor." made me second guess myself.

                                                                                            "Also, I love my crepe pans because I look so damn cool when I cook without utensils. I do it as often as possible."

                                                                                            You're really amusing. How do you flip without utensils? Just do a pan/air flip?

                                                                                            What crepe pans do you own (Brand/size)? I'm really sorry if you've already answered this but I've been reading so much from different people it's hard to remember if I have been told or where the information is

                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                              KPD,

                                                                                              <You're really amusing. How do you flip without utensils? Just do a pan/air flip?>

                                                                                              1. Thank you, you're very kind.
                                                                                              2. The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
                                                                                              3. Exactly. For practice, try extra pancakes, flour tortillas or silicone trivets.

                                                                                              <What crepe pans do you own (Brand/size)? I'm really sorry if you've already answered this but I've been reading so much from different people it's hard to remember if I have been told or where the information is.>

                                                                                              I'm happy to repeat. It's hard to gauge how much repetition to include when posting, because we just can't know what the reader recalls from prior posts.

                                                                                              I've got 2 DeBuyers crepe pans. One is a Force Blue, 8", the other is Carbone, 10.5". I flip stuff in the FB, the Carbone is too heavy for that, at least for me it is. I've also got a Lodge round griddle, 10.5". It's the heaviest of the 3.

                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                You’re welcome and thank you for the tips on how to practice.

                                                                                                I'm glad I didn't bother you.

                                                                                                What are the two different types of material good for/what are the differences?

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                  KPD,

                                                                                                  Both pans are carbon steel. Force Blue is a little thinner and has less thermal mass than Carbone. FYI, Carbone is the same thickness as Mineral.

                                                                                                  the thinner FB is more responsive to heat changes, making it perfect for things like eggs, while the greater thermal mass of the Carbone means it holds heat better, making it better for searing a steak.

                                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                    That makes a lot of sense, thank you for writing this out.

                                                                                            2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                              Hi, Duffy:

                                                                                              I'm not trying to ignite another induction debate, really. But you should be careful lest you are tempted to use a CS crepe pan as a converter disk. I made that recommendation to another Hound (and it *does* work), but the pan warped badly.

                                                                                              Also, did you know that you can make your own spats from cooked-without-uttensils hashbrowns?

                                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                                              1. re: kaleokahu

                                                                                                Hi Kaleo,

                                                                                                I remember that incident well. It happened just at the time I was buying my FB pan, IIRC. It's not something I'm likely to forget, but please go right on reminding me and everyone else. It's one of those life lessons that bears repeating. Especially with some people wanting to use a converter disk. Personally, I say if you're going induction, just do it. That's just me.

                                                                                                Spats? I don't know what those are, except shellfish spawn and shoe covers. I want to learn about anything that can be made from hash browns!

                                                                                  2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                    I have both of those Proline skillets. I had to choose only one, I would get the 11" model.

                                                                                    I can always cook less in a pan that's a little too large but, what do you do with an overfilled pan (I don't like to cook in batches and prefer to do it all at once)? The 11" skillet also has the helper handle which comes in handy when it's bit heavy for one hand.

                                                                                    Both skillets are well balanced with those great handles. They are heavy but, they are a lot easier to handle than a Lodge cast iron skillet of similar size and weight for example. And, the welded handles make them very easy to hand wash since you don't have to work around the rivets like you do with other pans.

                                                                                    1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                      "(I don't like to cook in batches and prefer to do it all at once)"

                                                                                      I'm precisely the same way.

                                                                                      "Both skillets are well balanced with those great handles."

                                                                                      Do you find any of the Atlantis or Proline pots/pans to be unbalanced at all?

                                                                                      "They are heavy but, they are a lot easier to handle than a Lodge cast iron skillet of similar size and weight for example."

                                                                                      Thank you for writing this, I was curious about this. Very useful information.

                                                                                      "And, the welded handles make them very easy to hand wash since you don't have to work around the rivets like you do with other pans."

                                                                                      That is actually one of my favourite features of Demeyere, it's part of why I can't wait for them.

                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                        Sid,

                                                                                        Thanks. Somehow I thought you'd come down in favor of the larger pan. My first instinct is to agree and go for the 11", but I realize that I've got no idea which pan size I use most. I'll have to pay some attention to that. I know it's not 12", but can't say if my 9" pans see more use than the 10" ones.

                                                                                        I'm really glad to know the balance is there in the skillets. I have to agree about the handles, they're genius.

                                                                                        1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                          This is exactly how I'm working to figure out what to by myself. I'm looking at my habits and seeing what I use when and why.

                                                                                          I'm glad you like the handles so much.

                                                                                    2. re: Sid Post

                                                                                      I noticed and I will be!

                                                                                      Looking at all of the Demeyere my last real choice is me assessing my personal needs on which fry pan sizes I'm going to buy. Oddly enough that's the last real decision I need to make, no matter what I am buying multiple though!

                                                                                      1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                        "on which fry pan sizes to buy"

                                                                                        I have a 7.5", 9.5" and 11" stainless steel fry pans (the 11" is the Proline). I usually cook for one, but I like leftovers. I get the least use from the 7.5" pan. (If I'm making an omelette or scrambled eggs, I use an aluminum pan devoted only to that purpose - the Rudolph Stanish omelet pan which I found on eBay after someone on this Board recommended it, and which I love).

                                                                                        If I were you, I would buy the 9.5" and 11" Prolines and skip the smaller one for now. The 9.5" will be your workhorse, but even as a single person I get a lot of use out of the 11" Proline. I love pan-roasted vegetables, which always calls for lying the vegetables in a single layer and the 11" Proline is perfect for that so you don't have to do it in batches. It's also great for wilting a bunch of greens. I almost sent the 11" Proline back when I got it because I didn't realize how big it was, but I actually use it quite a bit.

                                                                                        I don't have a lot of storage space in my kitchen and my pot rack is full with other pots, so I just keep my three stainless steel frying pans stacked up, one on top of the other, on one of my burners.

                                                                                        1. re: omotosando

                                                                                          “If I'm making an omelette or scrambled eggs, I use an aluminum pan devoted only to that purpose”

                                                                                          I’ve actually been deciding lately what I want to cook eggs in; I don’t cook them often, but when I do I cook a lot of them. I still haven’t decided what works best for my style, there are a lot of choices.

                                                                                          I’m actually leaning towards the 9.4” Proline, I think you’re right about how much of a workhorse it’s going to be (Even for me). It seems the right middle size to do a lot of things, like small amounts of searing and veg and things. I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter). I like the ascetic of the flat bottom and the high sides and I like how it will reduce mess when I’m frying things in it. I also don’t like frying batch after batch of things and the 4.2 quart has a lot of flat surface area for me to work with and reduce my batch numbers (I could cook up the sides of the larger fry pans, but it just isn’t my style; even though Demeyere designed them very well and made a lot of incredibly efficient use there).

                                                                                          “I don't have a lot of storage space in my kitchen and my pot rack is full with other pots, so I just keep my three stainless steel frying pans stacked up, one on top of the other, on one of my burners.”

                                                                                          It is always nice to do that, because then they are very easy to grab!

                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                            KPD,

                                                                                            <I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter).>

                                                                                            I'm seeing a lot of cooks make the same choice lately, for exactly the reasons you listed. From new brides to people looking to pare down to the essentials, I think sauté pans may be the new black. ;)

                                                                                            1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                              Really? I wonder why.

                                                                                              Black has always been fashionable (Me saying this would be funnier if you knew more about me: besides shoes and some uncommon accessories I tend to wear all black and I’m not overly concerned with fashion).

                                                                                              I actually figured out I liked this style when I bought some Calphalon Tri-Ply and I was trying to (As you put it) pare down to the essentials, the 5.5 quart sauté pan is perfect for me in a lot of ways (The flat surface of the pan is 12 inches being one of the reasons).

                                                                                            2. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                              "I’m actually going to be buying the 4.2 quart sauté pan from the Atlantis line instead of a large fry pan (It also is 11 inches diameter). I like the ascetic of the flat bottom and the high sides and I like how it will reduce mess when I’m frying things in it. I also don’t like frying batch after batch of things and the 4.2 quart has a lot of flat surface area for me to work with and reduce my batch numbers (I could cook up the sides of the larger fry pans, but it just isn’t my style; even though Demeyere designed them very well and made a lot of incredibly efficient use there)."

                                                                                              For non-acidic cooking, I would opt for the DeBuyer Mineral "country pan". It is about 1/4 the cost and will hold more heat on a weak electric coil. I would then consider the money I saved for the larger skillet or a different pan from the Atlantis line. I have the 32cm country pan and its sides are about 3 1/2 inches high and the sides flare a little to allow moisture to escape.

                                                                                              The country pan at ~$90 plus the 11" Proline/Atlantis skillet at $200 is about $100 less than the Atlantis saute pan.

                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                I completely see what you are saying and agree that in every was it’s logical and makes more sense to do and for most people it is certainly the correct answer, I’m really glad you wrote this so people can read it and know that there is this specific option out there (Especially a much much more affordable one, which is always important). For me though, I prefer to have less pans and ones that do a lot of multitasking, I like working with this type/shape of pan (The aesthetic pleases me and the way that it works with my body and cooking style), and I tend to cook a fair amount of acidic food or often deglaze with it.

                                                                                                I am going to miss out on the heat retention and the extra moisture escaping ability, but I will have what I personally work well with.

                                                                                                I’m also openly admittedly terrible at seasoning things and doing the proper up keep of things that need it and this is certainly a factor of why this is not an option for me (At this time and possibly even in the future).

                                                                                                I hope you understand that I know that you pose a perfect option, that involves better cookery, and I don’t want you to feel in any way that I even disagree, but it just isn’t for me; I’m sorry for that.

                                                                                                I’m also sorry if I wrote too much here, I just wanted to make it clear that I agree with you (No matter if it works for me).

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                  "but I will have what I personally work well with."

                                                                                                  This is most important. We each need the pan that works best in our kitchen, on our stove, with our cooking techniques.

                                                                                                  "I’m also openly admittedly terrible at seasoning things and doing the proper up keep of things that need it and this is certainly a factor of why this is not an option for me (At this time and possibly even in the future)."

                                                                                                  Seasoning is a little intimidating for people who have never done it before. First timers sometimes get it wrong but, a second attempt with some coaching usually gets things sorted out properly. With a little oil/fat and heat as you cook, up keep for this style of pan is pretty low.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                    “This is most important. We each need the pan that works best in our kitchen, on our stove, with our cooking techniques.”

                                                                                                    I wholeheartedly agree, I’m glad you wrote this. Working in the kitchen is personal and we all have different needs.

                                                                                                    “Seasoning is a little intimidating for people who have never done it before. First timers sometimes get it wrong but, a second attempt with some coaching usually gets things sorted out properly. With a little oil/fat and heat as you cook, up keep for this style of pan is pretty low.”

                                                                                                    I agree.

                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                            That is lovely cookware, thank you for the pictures.

                                                                                            How long have you owned yours bytheway?

                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                              I got my first piece about 2 years ago. Then the Ah-Ha moment occurred and I soon added additional pieces. Now, I add new pieces as I retire older ones when I find they don't do something I want them too.

                                                                                              Hence, my desire for the "Maslin jam pot" which will retire the stock pots I have mixed feelings about. I don't make big batches of stew or chili that often but, I don't really have an ~8 quart stock pot that I'm really happy with. The Malin jam pot seems to fill this role and add more versatility with its ability to pour easier, cook seafood, and make jam with mother's blueberries. When I retire and move back to the midwest (probably Texas) I may even find myself canning tomato sauce with it.

                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                They certainly still look like new. I love hearing about how everyone has this moment with Demeyere, it's really amusing and lovely.

                                                                                                You have a good method of filling your kitchen, I'm glad it works so well.

                                                                                                The Maslin really is versatile, I hope that it provides the type of pot you need and canning tomato sauce is always fun.

                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                  "They certainly still look like new."

                                                                                                  I almost exclusively hand wash them (I think I put one skillet in the dishwasher once). This prevents the surface etching from harsh dishwasher detergents. I also haven't needed to use a scotchbrite pad or other aggressive pad to clean them which also helps. LIttle stuck bits generally come off easily with a soft plastic scrubbie.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                    "LIttle stuck bits generally come off easily with a soft plastic scrubbie."

                                                                                                    What brand do you use?

                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                      Whatever brand the 99 cent store has at the time. Seriously, whatever is cheap and has several in the bag. Just squeeze one in the bag to make sure there is enough material in it to hold its shape and not totally flatten out when squeezed (the really thin or loose weave ones don't work very well).

                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                        Are you talking about the ones that look like tight donuts?

                                                                                                        There are so many different types of plastic scrubbies I'm not certain which you use.

                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                          Yes, tight donuts. I get some that are basically like a round pad because they are woven so tight but, most are a little open and loose in the center.

                                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                            (I found this picture on google).

                                                                                                            Just to confirm, is this what you mean? The nice tight versions of these?

                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                              Yes, that looks like what I use. They work pretty good for me. If I have some little bits of stuff left behind for some reason, I let them soak in water and use the scrubbie like you show. If a little speck is stubborn, I haven't found one that would survive a fingernail.

                                                                                                              Regular dishwashing liquid and one of these serve me well when I need to wash my Demeyere. Add a small sponge to wash around the handle and you will be well equipped.

                                                                                                              1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                Perfect! Thank you for all of this, I like having specifics like this so I know that it works.

                                                                                                                I'll certainly be using all of this.

                                                                                                                By regular dishwashing liquid; you just means thinks like Joy, correct?

                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                  Yes, Joy, Dawn, Palmolive, etc. The normal stuff you see at most stores (grocery, drug stores, etc.) that sell dishwashing stuff.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                    That's great to know, thank you!

                                                                                                                    Do you avoid citrus scents or do you find they are okay on the cookware?

                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                      Scented dish soap is a personal choice. If you rinse your cookware properly, the soap and scent is washed away. If the scent remains behind, did you really wash all the soap away?

                                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                        That's so true.

                                                                                                                        The reason I asked this was because many have said they found that citrus based dishwashing liquid to be acidic and abrasive to cookware and I wasn't certain if you found that true.

                                                                                                                        1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                          I am allergic to a lot of fragrances (perfumes and cosmetics) and prefer natural products so, heavily scented laundry detergents and soaps in general are avoided.

                                                                                                                          For hand washing cookware, the soap doesn't stay on the pan long enough to matter IMHO. The scents are generally artificial so, there really isn't any acidity to any of them to worry about. Or course though, these dish washing liquids could have citric acid or other things added. Personally, I would not hesitate to use pure natural Lemon juice. It isn't acidic enough to harm my pans for the length of time I would use it; cooking or washing. Abrasive powders (Comet, Ajax, etc.) are something I don't see ever using on cookware either. I should note that I don't obsess over getting a mirror like shine on my stainless steel cookware either. If it is clean and not dingy, I'm done since I'm not trying to impress anyone with the appearance of my cookware - it's the cooking and flavor that count!!!!

                                                                                                                          Acidic cooking is the primary reason I have Stainless Steel cookware. De Buyer Mineral and various natural cast iron options have served me well. Enameled cast iron and my Demeyere Atlantis cookware let me cook without worry about tainted flavors from iron or picking up traces from previous meals due to seasoning with iron.

                                                                                                                          1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                            This was very well written out, thank you.

                                                                                                                            I think what people have been saying is that citric acid has been added to the soaps, but I can't remember. It's very true that SS can handle acidic cooking, I wonder why people are finding citric acid in soap is causing problems, as you said it shouldn't be there long enough to cause an effect.

                                                                                                                            I like your idea of using pure natural lemon juice (I like the smell of lemon in my kitchen and it's a great cleaner of many things IMO).

                                                                                                                            I normally stick to fragrance free/all natural products myself as chemicals/perfumes give me headaches or make me nauseous. I'm sorry you're so allergic.

                                                                                                                            "I should note that I don't obsess over getting a mirror like shine on my stainless steel cookware either. If it is clean and not dingy, I'm done since I'm not trying to impress anyone with my the appearance of my cookware - it's the cooking that counts!!!!"

                                                                                                                            I'm right there with you!

                                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                              Sid & Dimples -

                                                                                                                              I'm now unsure where I found the citric acid info, but did see today an article from 2010 listing sodium citrate (the salt of citric acid) as the top ingredient in Finish Quantum.

                                                                                                                              The only worry I had with citric acid is that I felt it could be adding to the battery effect some of us are seeing in our DWs. The SS is fine, it's the aluminum center of the "sandwich" that's being damaged. Here are a pair of photos I took today showing the aluminum loop handle rivets on my 8 quart pot and the deterioration of the "sandwich" on my 4.5 quart saucepan.

                                                                                                                              I LOVE shiny pots and really miss my Finish Quantum. :(

                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                                                (I'm still smiling, hopefully Dimples will be coming soon).

                                                                                                                                I hope you and QT find the answer we are looking for so no more of your lovely pots and pans ever look like this again.

                                                                                                                                1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                                  Stainless steel stands up to pretty aggressive use and abuse without any serious damage. It is generally the materials used in laminations and coverings that suffer galvanic loss and various other issues. Stainless steel compositions can also vary which could explain some differences in cookware when comparing the premium stainless brands to cheaper imports.

                                                                                                                                  Weak acids and galvanic action will certainly marr and wear away aluminum. I use modern dishwashing powders and liquids in the dishwasher on plates, glasses, and silverware I don't care about. Ceramics and glass hold up well with no issues so far. Plastic drinkware loses the graphics pretty easily so, I try to hand wash those (mainly the no "sweat" double wall drink glasses). Cheap silverware is basically disposable so as it gets lost at work, occasionally new pieces come in to "freshen things up" over time.

                                                                                                                                  Dishwashers and their soaps both are generally pretty aggressive and harsh so, I am pretty picky about what I subject to their "evil intentions" <insert evil laugh here>

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                                    "I am pretty picky about what I subject to their "evil intentions" <insert evil laugh here>"

                                                                                                                                    This made me laugh, you're almost as silly as Duffy!

                                                                                                                                    1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                                                      I'm glad you got a chuckle out of that. Threads like this can get overly serious at times so, a little humor is in order occasionally.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                                                        "Threads like this can get overly serious at times so"

                                                                                                                                        I know! I thought I was the only one that thought that CH can feel a bit more professional seeming then friendly conversational.

                                                                                                                                        And you really did make me laugh, it was very cute.

                                                                                        2. re: Sid Post

                                                                                          Thanks for the links, that’s a really nice looking pan (The Bee icon is cute too).

                                                                                          Do you find the 6 lbs is comfortable for you, or a bit heavy? I’m glad you like it so much and it works so well for your cooking style, it’s always brilliant to find something that really works for you in the kitchen (Especially with pots and pans). I can see why you’d use it for fatty ground meats; it looks like it would do the job really well and without the mess. It makes a lot of sense that you use it as a surrogate cast iron skillet. Wonderful they are.

                                                                                          The crepe pan by DeBuyer or by Demeyere? (Which one do you have/use?). When you personally aren’t using a crepe pan for searing a steak and finishing it in the oven, what is your pan of choice? What makes the DeBuyer so suitable for making homemade sweet potato chips (French fries)?

                                                                                          Sorry if I’m asking too many questions, I’m just having fun getting to know you and these brands/pans.

                                                                                          I certainly will buy the Demeyere! What do you feel the benefit DeBuyer has over the Demeyere when it comes to the mineral pans?

                                                                                          1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                            "Do you find the 6 lbs is comfortable for you, or a bit heavy? "

                                                                                            I guess I'm used to the weight. It also has the helper handle so, if it is full of food, I just lift it with both hands. The weight does help it stay "planted" on the burner when I'm flipping or tossing things in it. With aluminum, I always had to hold the pan with one hand and flip or toss stuff with the other but, it was light enough I could toss stuff in it. At ~6 pounds plus food weight, I'm not going to toss anything with this pan.

                                                                                            "I can see why you’d use it for fatty ground meats; it looks like it would do the job really well and without the mess. It makes a lot of sense that you use it as a surrogate cast iron skillet. Wonderful they are."

                                                                                            Yes, with the large surface area, food won't steam like it would in a smaller pan (the high sides will really hold on to moisture if you crowd things). I rarely use a splatter screen with it because most of the splatters will stay in the pan but, a real "fry" will still put a film of oil all over the stove. If I'm doing a vegetable saute or something similar where I'm moving the food a lot, it keeps everything in the pan and doesn't loose anything on the stove top.

                                                                                            "The crepe pan by DeBuyer or by Demeyere? (Which one do you have/use?). "

                                                                                            DeBuyer Mineral pans for carbon steel (iron).

                                                                                            "When you personally aren’t using a crepe pan for searing a steak and finishing it in the oven, what is your pan of choice?"

                                                                                            The runner up for me is the classic Lodge Cast Iron skillet but, the DeBuyer "fry pan" would work extremely well too. The handles on the DeBuyer pans are better than those little things on the Lodge skillets but, old habits are hard to break and I grew up with Lodge cast iron.

                                                                                            "What makes the DeBuyer so suitable for making homemade sweet potato chips (French fries)?"

                                                                                            The shape, size, and heat response. I could make sweet potato fries in almost any pan but, the DeBuyer seems to use less oil and just works better than other pans I have tried.

                                                                                            "Sorry if I’m asking too many questions, I’m just having fun getting to know you and these brands/pans."

                                                                                            No worries, shared knowledge and answering questions is good for everyone! I think we all learn from answering and asking questions and, reading the responses. With answering questions, you really learn why you do what you do. For example, why do I always grab the same pan for this task and different one for that task? What makes it better for me?

                                                                                            "I certainly will buy the Demeyere! What do you feel the benefit DeBuyer has over the Demeyere when it comes to the mineral pans?"

                                                                                            Demeyere Atlantis/Proline and DeBuyer Mineral pans are complementary to each other. I won't cook acidic things in steel or cast iron so, it's always going to be done in stainless steel. If I want to get a good sear on a piece of meat for a stew or anything similar, there is no substitute for the thermal capacity of cast iron or DeBuyer mineral pans when you are on a weak electric coil heat source. Thin stir fry meat cooks up fine in the Mineral pans but, for larger thicker cuts cast iron gets used because it stores more BTU's and retains the temperature better. The DeBuyer mineral pans have really good shapes for cooking certain things, similar to the Demeyere Atlantis pans being optimized for specific tasks.

                                                                                            Demeyere Atlantis/Proline 5 Star and DeBuyer Mineral pans are really complementary to each other and are not a replacement for the other. However, both are capable of doing the others tasks if you only had ONE pan.

                                                                                            For example, I can fry chicken or sweet potato fries or sear meat in the Demeyere skillet but, the DeBuyer mineral pans do it better on my current stove (weak burners). I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.

                                                                                            1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                              “The weight does help it stay "planted" on the burner when I'm flipping or tossing things in it.”

                                                                                              That is really good to know; I like it when cookware stays in place, so it doesn’t run off from me or get scratched on the bottom.

                                                                                              Your reasons for loving your country pan are the reasons why I like using sauté pans for the same exact cooking methods and foods.

                                                                                              “The handles on the DeBuyer pans are better than those little things on the Lodge skillets but, old habits are hard to break and I grew up with Lodge cast iron.”

                                                                                              Not everything in the kitchen should be efficient, I feel; I think sentimentality belongs in the kitchen. I do the same thing.

                                                                                              I agree with everything you said about questions and learning oneself with why we do.

                                                                                              “If I want to get a good sear on a piece of meat for a stew or anything similar, there is no substitute for the thermal capacity of cast iron or DeBuyer mineral pans when you are on a weak electric coil heat source.”

                                                                                              What exactly is a mineral pan and why does it have higher thermal capacity than a Demeyere?

                                                                                              “I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.”

                                                                                              Why is this true, do you feel? What makes the Demeyere better at scrambled eggs and pasta dishes?

                                                                                              Thank you for writing all of this and again for answering all of my questions.

                                                                                              1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                "What exactly is a mineral pan and why does it have higher thermal capacity than a Demeyere?"

                                                                                                DeBuyer Mineral pans are the heaviest gauge pan series they make. For a weak electric coil, more iron mass means I have more heat stored for the sear. The Demeyere Atlantis pans are made from different metals and are made to cook differently. Whether this is good, better, or bad depends on what you are cooking what type of results you are trying to achieve.

                                                                                                “I can make scrambled eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.

                                                                                                Why is this true, do you feel? What makes the Demeyere better at scrambled eggs and pasta dishes?”

                                                                                                The Demeyere pans are much more responsive to heat changes. They are also more even across the entire surface (good even heat all the way to the edge of the skillet). For eggs and pasta, I'm not using high heat and I DO NOT want a huge amount of stored heat. I can bump the heat up or down and the skillet will respond pretty quick. Cast Iron or sheet iron like the DeBuyer Mineral pans are not as responsive to heat changes. Scorched pasta is terrible so if its too hot lifting it off the burner doesn't help and it will continue to scorch unless you dump it out into another pan. Plus, I don't cook tomatoes in iron.

                                                                                                "Thank you for writing all of this and again for answering all of my questions."

                                                                                                It's a pleasure. Shared knowledge helps us all. With expensive pans like these, I also want people like yourself to make the "best" decision with their hard earned money. After all, many of these pans cost more than an entire entry level set many forum members have. Buying pans like these are a significant investment for many people and a real stretch for their budgets so it is worth a lot of careful thought and discussion.

                                                                                                1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                  “The Demeyere pans are much more responsive to heat changes.”

                                                                                                  I’m glad to hear that they are so quick to heat changes, that’s very important for some of the cooking I do. I can see why they work so well for pasta dishes and eggs.

                                                                                                  “It's a pleasure. Shared knowledge helps us all. With expensive pans like these, I also want people like yourself to make the "best" decision with their hard earned money. After all, many of these pans cost more than an entire entry level set many forum members have. Buying pans like these are a significant investment for many people and a real stretch for their budgets so it is worth a lot of careful thought and discussion.”

                                                                                                  I couldn’t agree more. That’s actually why I’m here and asking all these questions, money is always important and I don’t want to buy something and find out I could have afforded or waited to afford something of better quality/better suited to me and some day I’m going to go have to buy that better item because I didn’t know the options and have wasted all that money. I’m a research a lot, buy once type of person. I always have found that research is key and when making (As you have said) such an investment as this, I want to make certain I know I am making the best decision.

                                                                                                  Once again, thank you for writing all of this; it’s such a wealth of knowledge.

                                                                                              2. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                Hey Sid,

                                                                                                < I can make scramble eggs and pasta dishes in my DeBuyer Mineral pans but, the Demeyer skillets and pans do it better.>

                                                                                                This surprised me. Pasta dishes I get, makes sense, but eggs? I would have guessed that the Mineral would be better for any kind of eggs.

                                                                                                1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                  I like the responsiveness of the Demeyere. They get to temperature faster (weak electric coils) so, if things get too hot I just lift the skillet for a moment and lower the heat so the eggs cook the way I want them. Too cool, a nudge on the heat and the skillet responds nicely. My skillets are always clean so, no worries about lingering flavors from previous meals.

                                                                                                  In steel, I tend to overcook eggs in general. I'm either in a hurry and have the heat too high or, I preheat the pan too high and the eggs are overcooked before the pan cools. Then there is the issue of what I previously cooked in the pan and the little black flecks that show up in the eggs. Sometimes you want garlic or onions with your eggs but, I don't wash my De Buyer that hard so, previous meals also tend to show up with my breakfast eggs.

                                                                                                  The Demeyere skillets simply work better for me and fit my lifestyle better.

                                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                    Sid,

                                                                                                    As always, thanks for letting me inside your cooking processes. About 95% of my crepe pan use is eggs, pancakes, breakfast sausage and grilled sandwiches. It only gets any kind of scrubbing after stuff like sausage, otherwise it's just wiped with a paper towel, not even rinsed. Any flavors left in the pan are going to be largely complementary to the eggs. I also have quite a bit of patience with eggs, and learned early on that my radiant heats well on 5, but I crank it right down to 3-4 to cook the eggs, often turning it off completely once they're about 2/3 cooked.

                                                                                                    What about stickiness? Scrambles are notoriously sticky. Do you fine DM less sticky than other clad SS?

                                                                                                    1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                      Warm eggs aren't nearly as tenacious about sticking compared to ones straight out of the fridge. Low heat and warm eggs, milk, etc. work well for me. If I can let things sit on the counter for an hour (phone calls to mom in the morning, first coffee, etc.) things are pretty easy. If I'm in a hurry, I "cheat" a little with a spritz of very light tasting olive oil. I won't argue that my Demeyere skillets are better than the classic teflon options but, it certainly isn't far behind as long as you don't don't burn things to a crisp.

                                                                                                      Compared to the Original "professional" Calphalon hard anodized aluminum, the Demeyere skillets are fool proof. I think I even got a stick of butter to stick once in that skillet (just kidding of course)!

                                                                                                      Gentle heat with no "carry-over" heat is the key to success.

                                                                                                      Also, "skillet scrambles" are very easy and near foolproof. My mom was awestruck when she came out the first time to see me when I lived in Huntsville, Alabama. For me it was a pretty normal, average, ordinary all-in-one skillet scramble. I started with a light swirl of olive oil and added whatever vegetables were getting ready to age out and a few others that piqued my interest and maybe a little diced leftover ham. When everything was nearly done, the scrambled egg mixture went in with very gentle heat as I turned and lifted things (to let the "wet" eggs pour through) with the spatula. Fresh local farm raised produce will blow away most people when it is prepared simply - I simply began to take it for granted because I used it daily. I'm sure the practice helped too since I lived there for nearly three years.

                                                                                                      1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                        <Compared to the Original "professional" Calphalon hard anodized aluminum, the Demeyere skillets are fool proof. I think I even got a stick of butter to stick once in that skillet (just kidding of course)!>

                                                                                                        I had an original Scanpan HA pan and know exactly what you mean. Initially I liked it, but before long here was nothing remotely non-stick about it. At that point I was really missing my lost LC stuff, which was much better, even the saucepans.

                                                                                                      2. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                        "What about stickiness? Scrambles are notoriously sticky. Do you fine DM less sticky than other clad SS?"

                                                                                                        Subjectively, I find their finish to have merit beyond any marketing claims. It won't fix horrible technique but, I feel it is more forgiving for someone with a glimpse of good technique that could still use some fine tuning. A cold egg in a skillet that is too hot will stick but, not nearly as bad as it will in some of my previous pans.

                                                                                                        1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                                          <A cold egg in a skillet that is too hot will stick but, not nearly as bad as it will in some of my previous pans.>

                                                                                                          This is good. I've easily cooked eggs in my Cal. TP, no problem. I do a faux season first if I don't want to use much fat, otherwise I'm pretty generous with butter in it. And when we're talking eggs, that's not a bad thing. ;)

                                                                                                          1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                            "I do a faux season first if I don't want to use much fat"

                                                                                                            How do you do that?

                                                                                                            1. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                                              1. Heat the pan.
                                                                                                              2. Add oil.
                                                                                                              3. As soon as oil begins to smoke, take pan off heat.
                                                                                                              4. Let pan cool down.
                                                                                                              5. Pour out oil and wipe pan.
                                                                                                              5. Heat pan, add just a bit of fat and cook away.

                                                                                                              This is a great trick to make stainless behave like non-stick.
                                                                                                              It's been said the pan will remain "seasoned" until you wash it with soap, but I've never tested that. I always clean my stainless when I'm done cooking. Here's a video demo:

                                                                                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1376IT...

                                                                                            2. re: KungPaoDumplings

                                                                                              KPD - Finest Cookware is a Canadian outfit, which probably accounts for the country re-direct. I purchased 2 pans from them, and had an issue that was entirely my fault. Their customer service rep worked with me to resolve it, to a good conclusion. They've got numerous fans on these boards, for good reason.

                                                                                              <It looks like a flat bottomed conical, how interesting.> Yes, it does. It appears to be an innocent little pan, but looks are deceiving. It's a monster!

                                                                                              1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                                Oh, that makes a lot of sense about the link. I'm glad to hear they are so reputable, I've made a note of it so I know they are a good source to use.

                                                                                                How is it a monster? (Looks are often deceiving).

                                                                      2. re: omotosando

                                                                        "Also do you have any suggestions for lids for Proline?"

                                                                        Personally, I never understood having a dedicated lid for a skillet. On the rare occasions where I need one, I just borrow a lid from a similar size pot or pan.

                                                                      3. re: omotosando

                                                                        "Is the Proline deep enough to simmer chicken thighs? "

                                                                        For big chicken thighs, you need something deeper IMHO. This where a Saute pan or something similar comes into play though, there are some dedicated "deep" skillets you could use with a good lid from another similar size pan.

                                                                        1. re: Sid Post

                                                                          My Demeyere skillet is 2 1/4 inches high on the sides (measured from the outside - counter to top of side). This is the same as my Viking 9.5 and 11 inch skillets, and my Viking 3 qt saute. The sides of the skillets are slghtly rounded at the base and slightly sloped, but I I have seen pans with more of a flare on the sides. I think they are quite deep, but I'm not sure about simmering chicken thighs. These pans are also about as deep as my Le Creuset 3.5 qt. enameled cast iron braiser. My Cuisinart MCP saute is a bit deeper, but not as large in diameter. Lodge has a great, inexpensive plain cast iron deep fry pan (when it comes with the lid, they call it a chicken fryer). It is on my list!

                                                                          1. re: kimbers324

                                                                            My 11" Demeyere Proline arrived.

                                                                            I don't find it too heavy (of course, I lifted it without food), but it certainly is huge -- larger than I visualized. For those of you who have both the 9.5 inch skillets and the 11 inch, I'm curious when you pull out the 9.5 and when the 11 inch. I had envisioned the 11 inch for frittatas, but on viewing the pan that seems like one humongous frittata.

                                                                            By the way, the 11" does seem deep enough to me to braise and simmer chicken thighs.

                                                                            1. re: omotosando

                                                                              I love the 11" for sautéing individual vegetables for a combined vegetable dish because there is no crowding and the even heat is great. As you know or will find out, the sides of the pan have the same level of heat as the bottom, so this has a great effect on the sautéing process - less mushy results and somewhat of a "searing" effect on the vegetables which is wonderful for the flavor.

                                                                              1. re: laraffinee

                                                                                Thanks larafinee. I was going to send the 11" Demeyere back because it just seemed too large for anything I would ever cook, but after reading your post, I decided to keep it. And today I acquired a big bunch of dandelion greens at the local farmer's market and boy was I happy that I kept the pan. The pan is perfect for wilting a large amount of greens -- no crowding, no cooking in batches.

                                                                                And the pan cleaned up like a dream. I can't believe the years I wasted cooking in and caring for Le Creuset cast iron, when it all could have been so easy with Demeyere.

                                                                                In a bit of penny pinching, I ordered last week a 9.5 inch Sitram Catering skillet. I hope I won't regret the penny pinching and not springing for the 9.5 inch Proline.

                                                                                1. re: omotosando

                                                                                  I would have flipped the purchase around the other way since a 9.5" skillet is used more often than the larger 11" model.

                                                                                  I don't know what your 9.5" skillet cost but, at a $150 delivered the Proline 5*/Atlantis was an easy choice for me.

                                                                                  1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                    You know I think you are right Sid Post. I just saw the 9.5 Demeyere Proline on backorder at Metrokitchen for $150. Strangely the smaller 7.9 is $190. I think I will eat the postage and return the Sitram unopened when it arrives. I know for stainless steel I can't do better than Demeyere so why experiment.

                                                                                    I'm also tempted to replace my very old De Buyer 7.5 inch stainless frypan. It's not a bad pan and I was going to make do, but after Demeyere trying to clean under the rivets on the De Buyer drives me crazy. Once you have used rivetless pans, it is hard to go back.

                                                                                    1. re: omotosando

                                                                                      That is how I acquired all of the Demeyere that I have. First, the 9.5 Proline fry pan. Loved it - decided to get the 11'...Loved it too...etc. etc. ...and I have cookware that I am thrilled with. I do not buy sets, as I have yet to find one that is exactly what I would pick, so this piece by piece acquisition has worked best for me. No regret purchases and such, but happy choices.

                                                                              2. re: omotosando

                                                                                "By the way, the 11" does seem deep enough to me to braise and simmer chicken thighs."

                                                                                I think it really depends on the size of the chicken pieces in question. Small thighs, no problem. However, I've gotten some really big thighs that wouldn't fit without making a huge mess as they cook.

                                                                                1. re: Sid Post

                                                                                  <I think it really depends on the size of the chicken pieces in question. Small thighs, no problem. However, I've gotten some really big thighs that wouldn't fit without making a huge mess as they cook.>

                                                                                  This is what happens when misguided humans attempt to teach chickens to skate and ride little bicycles. Sure, the videos are fun to watch on Youtube, but those poor chickens! Their thighs get huge, and someday when they've grown too old to strap on the skates, what kind of reward do they get for the hours of laughter they've provided? They end up in a butcher's case, where people see those monster thighs and think "I've gotta get me some of those", never realizing the mess they'll have later that night.

                                                                                  Really, people? Is this what it's come to? Monster chicken thighs? Oil everywhere? Be a clean cook. Don't teach chickens to skate or ride bicycles.

                                                                                  1. re: DuffyH

                                                                                    ROFL ...... :-D

                                                                                    And it brings back fond memories of "drumettes" in Huntsville, Alabama. Little pygmy chickens there.......

                                                                          2. re: omotosando

                                                                            What is the difference between the tin lining with Mauviel(or copper based) vs the copper - stainless steel?

                                                                            1. re: bombadilio

                                                                              The answer(s) to this question is/are to be found in countless threads here, and in exhaustive length and detail.

                                                                              Basically, though, the practical differences are:

                                                                              (1) You cannot preheat tin-lined pans empty over 437F; SS-you can (but you should still not get SS-lined super hot);

                                                                              (2) You should not use metal utensils or harsh abrasives in tin-lined, because it wears away the lining; you *can* use metal in SS-lined;

                                                                              (3) Tin is a better heat conductor than SS;

                                                                              (4) A tinned pan can be relined (it is pricey), whereas a SS-pan cannot (but it possibly might be tinned);

                                                                              (5) A tin lining will discolor with heat, acidic foods and age. This does not affect its use. SS linings generally don't discolor, or they may be scoured back to looking shiny.

                                                                              (6) The thickest (and IMO, best) copper pans are vintage tinned pans, and with rare exceptions are no longer in production. Virtually all SS-lined pans are <3mm thick.

                                                                              Hope that helps. Now do your homework!

                                                                              Aloha,
                                                                              Kaleo

                                                                      4. re: kimbers324

                                                                        I have had the 3 QT Viking Saute pan for 13 years. I have used gas and always really liked it till I got an induction cooktop (where I need a flat pan). But sadly, my pan spins and spins on my flat cooktop. I called to see if Viking guaranteed it not to warp....but, of course not.

                                                                        1. re: lorabreeze

                                                                          Yep, anything that warps even a little bit is going to be a problem on induction and other glass tops.

                                                                          1. re: lorabreeze

                                                                            Putting a couple of sheets of old newspaper (or paper towels, or a silicone mat) under the saute pan during cooking may solve your spinning problem. I almost always cook on newspaper -- catches spatter, prevents the pots and pans from sliding around, and gets crumpled up after cooking and used to scrub the glass top clean.

                                                                            1. re: tanuki soup

                                                                              Yeah, use a shim, preferably not a matchbook.