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Kawartha Dairy ice cream is made with disgusting ingredients now

I posted this originally somewhere else but it didn't seem to draw many responses, but I'm so irritated by it I figured I'd post it here as well

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We went to the Apple Factory today (sort of a small farmers market) and was thrilled to see 1.5L containers of many Kawartha Dairy varieties.. We are extremely sick of Moose Tracks in this house now, because it's basically all that Costco sells, so we eagerly snatched up 2 containers of Strawberry today without looking at the ingredient list.

They boast "New container but same old family recipe" on the logo, but this is a load of crap.

As soon as I picked the container out of my freezer after dinner I noticed how weird and squishy the ice cream was (ALWAYS a bad sign in my books; good ice cream should be hard as a rock. When the ice cream is squishy right from the freezer it means it's loaded with air, oil, and other additives). It also has a hideous artificial pink-purple "Pepto Bismol" color to it with no actual fruit pieces whatsoever.

Sure enough, a look at the "new" ingredients reveal loads of horrible things that have no place being in your ice cream:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3815/92...

Let's see here.. 4th ingredient in is glucose, a horrible start. Further down the list finally comes strawberries, after a bunch of modified milk ingredients, but even more frustrating is the load of unpronounceable garbage after that. Mono and Diglicerydes (whatever the hell that is), _4_ different types of "GUM", dextrose (which not even the shadiest of cocaine dealers will cut their product with anymore), WATER (what is water doing in my ice cream??), artificial color (no kidding, take a look at the color of the ice cream), and that's omitting a bunch of other stuff I don't even know anything about. And what the hell are sulphites doing in my ice cream?

Now let's take a look at Haagen Daaz Strawberry ice cream which is definitely my solid, go-to choice that other ice creams should be compared to:

Cream, Strawberries, Skim Milk, Sugar, Egg Yolks

Not only have the morons at Kawartha Dairy changed their packaging to something a lot more commercial, their "family recipe" has most certainly changed as well. It never used to look nor taste like this, and it's just extremely disappointing to see.. These ridiculous ingredients weren't even found in foods back when Kawartha Dairy started up so this was never their family recipe that's for damn sure

Sorry for the rant but I'm just so disappointed in what has become of this once proud Canadian company.. Probably going to sell their souls to the Coca Cola company next.

Please do not buy this crap, it's on the same level as the rest of the generic shit grocery store brands now, and you can definitely tell as soon as you take a taste of it

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  1. I've never found Kawartha to be a particularly pure brand and could never understand the fuss. The first time I spun the box, I was disgusted. That was when they first started selling to 3rd party retailers, what, had to be 12-13 years ago if it was a day. For commercial brands, I stick to Haagen Daaz and Gelato Fresco.

    Now before you call me an ice cream snob, I also used to purchase Breyers All Natural. They were years ahead of the curve in introducing a family-priced, mass-produced, all-natural ice cream. It was pure and delicious. Then they dropped the line. I keep hoping that they end up regretting the decision and reintroducing it. Hey Breyers, you're on-trend now.

    1. A friend raved about this stuff but after having tried it more than once it sure didn't taste like anything special to me. Have you contacted the company? I am curious what their answer to the "same old family recipe" would be.

      After I started making my own ice cream I have definitely come more selective on what type of ice cream I buy.

      22 Replies
      1. re: ylsf

        They do have a helluva marketing strategy though. I'll give 'em credit for that. I don't think I ever saw an ice cream brand rise so fast.

        1. re: Googs

          Why buy anything other than Haagen Dazs? If you look hard enough, it's on special somewhere. Lets not get started on Breyers, they really piss me off because they sell their natural line only in the States and claim there is no market or demand for it in Canada! What a load of crap!

          1. re: callitasicit

            Probably because the average Canadian seems to have no problems or voice any concerns about eating disgusting "frozen desserts" filled with HFCS, oil, and other additives.. Until people start caring about what they eat, it looks like they have no reason to stop

            1. re: duckdown

              Well we do have a choice and unfortunately it seems the average Canadian makes the wrong one lol. I have a few friends that buy that blue parlour Breyers solely because it is on special at Shoppers Drug Mart, I always tell them I would rather eat chalk than consume that garbage. Very disappointing that Breyers discontinued their natural line here in Canada, I used to love their Natural Vanilla with real specks of vanilla bean. Now I won't touch any other vanilla ice cream but Haagen Dazs.

            2. re: callitasicit

              Haagen Daz is great, but it's also a lot higher fat and more caloric than cheaper, less dense, aerated grocery store ice creams. The main reason I don't buy Haagen Daz all the time is that I don't want to use up 300 calories every time I want to eat a half cup of ice cream.

              Another reason I don't buy Haagen Daz all the time, is that I don't need deluxe ice cream all the time.

              A third reason I don't buy HD all the time is that it's overpriced. I only buy Ben and Jerry's/Haagen Daz when they're on sale for less than $5.

              I like Kawartha Dairy's Moose Tracks, and I don't care if they add glucose.

              For any hounds who are as shockingly low brow as me, which Shaw's, Chapman's and Breyers flavours do you like the most? I realize Googs buys the Chapman's Butter Pecan occasionally.

              I like Chapman's Premium Heavenly Hash. I also like the PC Pralines and Cream.

              1. re: prima

                Hagen Dasz is pretty good (though I have to leave it out on the counter for a while to let it soften up...I hate ice cream that you need a chisel to eat).
                The brand has sure grown since the days when it was made in what looked like a garage in a semi industrial area near Perth Amboy, NJ. I think the product has changed a bit over the years but it still seems like an 'honest' basic ice cream, even with Nestle at the helm.

                1. re: The Professor

                  Oh good lord, I didn't realize that Nestle ultimately owns Haagen Daz. Oh well. No more HD for me.

                  1. re: Googs

                    I felt that way too when I read that.

                    1. re: kwass

                      well there's always Ben N' Jerry's!

                      oh wait... they sold to Unilever. :(

                        1. re: Googs

                          Maybe I'm not that picky when it comes to ice cream but I really enjoy Ed's Real Scoop and they are a five min walk from my house. No need for big brand products IMO.

                    2. re: Googs

                      why should it matter if the quality is maintained??????

                      1. re: The Professor

                        It's my personal choice that Nestle products will never enter my home. Their heinous acts committed against babies and animals, those without the power of language, won't be forgiven and shouldn't considering it's ongoing. Sorry that HD is the baby in this bathwater scenario, but I simply won't ignore their past and present. There are plenty of other choices out there with which I can live that are every bit as good if not better.

                        1. re: Googs

                          Googs, if you find yourself travelling outside Canada and US in the future, keep in mind the HD sold outside Canada and the US isn't licensed by Nestle. Which might explain why the HD I remember having eaten in Europe always seems to tasted different and sometimes better than the HD I've eaten at home.

                          1. re: prima

                            Maybe, but it's more likely that the difference in taste comes from dairy industry law that requires locally bought milk for ice creams

                            1. re: meatnveg

                              Perhaps.

                              I even find the mainstream, commercially-processed, large scale ice creams in Europe like Movenpick, Carte D'Or, Cornetto, etc taste better/have better texture than most of what I've eaten here. I think the recipe and processing make more of a difference, since the flavours added to the ice cream cover most of the dairy flavour (at least in the flavours I choose buy). We can always add more cream if the milk being used isn't as high-fat as milk used elsewhere.

                              re: locally bought milk
                              Are you talking about a Canadian dairy industry law, or a dairy industry law overseas? Canadian ice cream can be made with Canadian milk, anywhere in Canada, as far as I'm aware. Scotsburn Dairy in Truro, NS has been making the Cdn Baskin Robbins since the Peterborough Baskin Robbins plant shut down last year.

                          2. re: Googs

                            Interesting.
                            I was unaware of any controversy involving Nestlé.

                2. re: Googs

                  What is their marketing strategy? I've seen their products in a couple stores only (costco and T&T)...never really heard of them otherwise. Curious to know.

                  1. re: szw

                    Really? My local Foodland, with limited freezer space, carries KD and I thought I'd seen it most at most major chains. But I'm not really looking. It's interesting this thread got to 70+ replies but it basically confirms my suspicion that they were never a "premium" (low overrun, no gums) product and a lot of the hype is nostalgia or something. It is amazing how quickly they became a known brand. For everyday non-gourmet or cottage country parlour cones, I prefer them to the competition (say Chapmans, Neilsen, Baskin Robbins?). I like the Rum Raisin, but the Moose Tracks doesn't have enough PB cups! Now I'm wondering if I got sucked into the hype and how they would fare in a blind taste against those brands. On Manitoulin I've tried the local brand that people rave about (Farquhar's) and found it even less special so I really think people have nostalgic ice cream preferences. When I was a kid, HD wasn't available yet and when it came out we knew it was special, so my feeling is that the ice cream of the 70s/80s was already pretty crap, we just didn't notice it. I don't begrudge a Canadian company having some marketing success with a non-gourmet product, as the rep says, let's compare apples to apples.

              2. I've noticed they have no Facebook or Twitter presence at all, and I have a feeling that it's because of precisely this.

                I do want to contact them and see what they say but I can imagine getting either a useless canned response or just no response at all...

                Haagen Dazs really is the gold standard I'd compare any other ice cream to, but they are not a Canadian company, so it would be nice to support an entirely Canadian operation. Sadly the losers at Kawartha Dairy clearly have zero standards and could care less about making a quality product. Just another case of "it's all about the money" I guess.

                What a shame..

                11 Replies
                1. re: duckdown

                  I'm not sure why you say they don't have a Facebook page.
                  In fact, there are a few... I found them under Kawartha Dairy or Kawartha Dairy Company or Kawartha Ice Cream with a posting as recently as yesterday. (And apparently people still love them as evidenced by the Globe article they mention on their FB page!)

                  They also reference their FB page on the main Kawartha Dairy page: http://www.kawarthadairy.com/?p=166

                  1. re: bluefirefly

                    Ah I guess I only looked for a Twitter account, my mistake sorry. Didn't look very diligently for a Facebook page

                  2. re: duckdown

                    Not true. Kawartha has one standard: They only use Canadian milk and cream. That's isn't a cheap choice. If they were to be pure as well, that'd likely price them out of existence.

                    If you want Canadian and chemical free, try Gelato Fresco. Made in Toronto and available t select stores. If you want the full line of flavours they also sell direct to the public at the factory.
                    http://www.gelatofresco.com/

                    1. re: duckdown

                      You could buy Canadian by going to any of the ice cream places around town such as Il Gelatiere or Hollywood and buy take out 1/2 or one litre of any flavor(s) you want. It'll be expensive but you'd be buying Canadian ice cream / gelato at least as good as HD.

                      1. re: syoung

                        While I endorse the 'buying Canadian' comment, I'm less enthusiastic about the 'at least as good' part.
                        My taste tests (some formal and some personal experience) have not supported the proposition that the retail stores provide a better (or even consistent) product.
                        When Il Gelatiere first opened I was extremely enthusiastic but by the second season it seemed clear to me that they were using purees (rather than fruit) as flavourings (not too much Canadian mango/citrus). Hollywood has always seemed too sweet for me.
                        Canadian milk/cream (with rare exceptions - possibly) is not rewarded for higher fat content - its a quota system and premium quality of raw material would generally sell at same price. So for ice cream/gelato we also need to look at the supplementary ingredients.
                        I do support Gelato Fresco - I've seen the fruit being delivered and seen them make, for example, espresso by the regular size portion (cup) hundreds of times (or maybe thousands - for clarity I probably only saw them make about 10 actual cups, but it's certainly made by individual serving).
                        Also, over the season, I've seen colour changes in, specifically, blood orange which varies between pink and deep red.

                        1. re: estufarian

                          One of the individuals originally connected to Il Gelatiere left after its first season, as far as I understand, which might have contributed to the change.

                          I was disappointed that it seemed no one checked to see how fresh-tasting the pine nuts were before adding them to a batch of the Maria gelato at Il Gelatiere in its 2nd season. Considering someone at Eigensinn Farm also forgot to check the nuts for freshness before making some Xmas pastries for the Eigensinn Kristkindlmarkt a few years ago, perhaps nut-freshness-taste-testing-before-throwing-them-into-the-mix is a step that doesn't cross the minds of individuals in the food business in Toronto and Ontario.

                          I've also found Hollywood too sweet in the past, and sometimes the texture isn't what I like. I haven't been to Hollywood for at least 5 years, so I have no idea what their gelato has been like lately.

                          Still slowly working my way through the GF flavours. While I liked the taste of the GF Milanese vanilla, I generally prefer having North American-style ice cream (dense Haagen Daz-style or the more typical, air-whipped-in, easier-to-scoop Shaw's, Chapman's or Kawartha Dairy-style) than gelato for vanilla and other creamy flavours, especially if I'm serving the vanilla ice cream with a crumble or pie. It's purely a texture thing for me.

                          1. re: prima

                            Not that I have the foresight to do this (generally) but if one takes a 'low over-run' (i.e not stuffed with air) ice cream/gelato and leaves it to stand, it will become scoopable as it warms up (as a side note, the flavour intensity should also increase, as most flavours intensify with increasing temperature).
                            Of course, reality often intrudes here, as who as the time, space (and planning skills) to remove the ice cream from the freezer maybe 20 mins before using.
                            I know you rely on TTC, so again not really feasible, but Gelato Fresco often have a Sour Cream ice-cream at their retail outlet, and that, for me, is the best 'vanilla-style' ice cream around.

                            1. re: estufarian

                              In my experience, it really only takes about 5-10 minutes. At 20, it gets too liquid. No planning required.

                              1. re: Googs

                                If I'm having a dinner party I usually stick it in the fridge when we have the main course. Perfect every time.

                                1. re: LexiFirefly

                                  Oooooh I LIKE that one. Good tip, LexiFirefly.

                    2. Tasted off to me as well, checked the packaging, and am totally bummed to find Kawartha is no longer simple all natural ice cream :(

                      1 Reply
                      1. They all follow suit, one company after another figuring out how to make "ice cream" that's not ice cream. Thankfully, there's still Haagen Dazs.

                        1. What about Ed's Real Scoop ice cream? They don't use preservatives or additives right? I haven't been in a while so I'm not sure if they've changed their recipe or not.

                          5 Replies
                          1. re: scarberian

                            I buy Chapman's and after reading this space I'm not sure I want to read the ingredients.

                            1. re: scarberian

                              I don't believe that any of the ice cream shops that actually make their own ice cream (Ed's, Greg's, Sweet Olenka's, etc.) use preservatives or additives. Since they don't have to worry about it staying edible in a supermarket freezer for several months, why would they?

                              1. re: Michael N

                                I'm glad you have faith - it may be misguided!
                                My local ice-cream place used to stock Greg's (among others) but, in a recent change of ownership, decided to list full ingredients on all their flavours, together with calorie counts.
                                Greg's refused to provide them with such a list, so is no longer served there!

                              2. re: scarberian

                                I'm a huge fan of Ed's- get your card stamped and buy the pints.
                                Otherwise, I make it or buy Haagen Dazs in a pinch.

                                To me, KD is much like Weber's more about the association or tradition than the actual product served.

                                1. re: scarberian

                                  No disclosure is required for store-prepared or over the counter foods.
                                  Has no one asked Ed what they use in the last month?

                                2. Sadly, there is a major difference between the KD ice cream you can buy at non KD retail stores, and the ice cream you get when you buy it 'fresh packed' from KD retail stores themselves.

                                  I believe part of the reason they have this crap in the 'mass quantity' production is to increase the 'air' in the ice cream, essentially a production 'trick' to use less product, increase the volume, which in turns produces that SOFT feeling which is always a BAD sign when it comes to ice cream.

                                  Do what I do, next time you are near a KD retail location (I visit the one in Barrie 4-6 times a year when I am at clients there) and have them pack their tubs with whatever you want. Get them to wrap it in bubble wrap, buy one of their thermo bags, it will survive a 60 minute drive to your freezer.

                                  Not convenient, but still the best ice cream.

                                  4 Replies
                                  1. re: Sadistick

                                    Sadistick, where do you get that info from? I looked on their site and nutrition info and they don't mention there is a difference between the fresh packed VS supermarket. Thanks! Ingredients MAY be listed on the big tubs at the scoop shops, if someone here has access...

                                    1. re: justsayn

                                      I get that info from my taste buds.

                                      It doesn't take a molecular engineer to discern the vast difference between products.

                                      I am referring to the big, 25lb containers they serve scoops from, is where I have them fill their 1.5L plastic containers. Of course they dont want you to see the difference in ingredients, because they want you to believe it is the same product!

                                      1. re: Sadistick

                                        Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack nor doubt you, I just wondered if this was something you read or heard somewhere? I know the tubs you are referring to.

                                        1. re: justsayn

                                          Oh, no attack/offense taken! The glory of how wildly interpretable text may be :)

                                          As an aside, I highly recommend their raspberry ripple, death by chocolate and heavenly hash.

                                  2. I'm not surprised. We all lament food manufacturers/'processors' striving for profit over quality. I haven't bought ice cream from a grocery store in quite a while since I bought an ice cream maker. It's dead simple, fun to do and I've only screwed it up once or twice. The dozens of other times I've made nothing short of amazing ice cream. I will go to Ed's when in the Beach. THAT is ice cream worth the price.
                                    My mantra at home, tho it's not spreading fast enough is, I'd rather pay more for something great and have it less frequently than buy an American sized container of some cheap processed crap

                                    1. My favorite memory of going on our yearly excursion to a cottage in Haliburton was stopping by the Kawartha Dairy for a scoop with my family. The ice cream was always delicious and handled with love from a small business. I don't know if the original place is still there but perhaps they still do things the old-fashioned way. Anyway, if you ever find yourself in the Haliburton-Mindon area, you could always stop by and check it out.

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: Abbeshay

                                        I know exactly the place you're talking about... and yes, it's still there, and the line ups are crazy as ever!

                                      2. You'll have to try Kirkland Vanilla. It is a close second to HaagenDaz, just 5 or 6 ingredients, and not overfilled with air. I think it works out to $3.25/liter, and you buy two tubs. Worth it.

                                        1. Reid's Dairy still uses cream for their ice cream according to their website. Unfortunately their retail outlets closed so we don't have ready access to their products any more. I see they do list other retailers (in Eastern Ontario) that carry their products.

                                          We used to really enjoy their ice creams.

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: Breadcrumbs

                                            If you're into Reid's Dairy, they still have outlets or mini-outlets located inside a variety store. Quickerts at Rougemount in Pickering still sells Reid's ice cream and shakes. I was also told there's one in an Afghani food mart in a plaza across from the Cedarbrae Library (north side). I can't confirm that since I haven't been to that location.

                                          2. I do agree with all of the comments regarding how disgusting it is that KD is now such an inferior product with so many chemicals and additives in the ice cream that it hardly is that anymore.

                                            However, I have to say that I find it hilarious that there is so much outrage here about this product that is sold at Costco and elsewhere but I hardly see any outrage about other food products sold at Costco (and elsewhere).

                                            What about the Asian-bred shrimp that is sold in cesspools that are then chemically bleached with all kind of horrible chemicals and then refilled to grow more shrimp? Every time I am at Costco I check if they have wild non-Asian farm bred shrimp, but never.

                                            What about the farmed salmon that Costco sells that is grown in netted off areas of the ocean where the salmon are infested with so much lice and other diseases and fed tons of antibiotic pellets as a result? And also fed food chosen from a colour wheel to match red dyes that will give them the colour the fishery wants?

                                            What about the pine nuts from China that Costco sells that are sprayed with a chemical that causes 'pine nut mouth' (google in and thousands of posts will come up about it). I've gotten it twice. Makes food unpalatable for 4-14 days.

                                            What about the cans of fish and sardines at Costco with bisphenol-A in the can liner, known to be a toxic substance and now banned in many countries for food container use?

                                            I could go on and on. The fact is no one is outraged about these disgusting food products because there is no list of ingredients on the label for people to look at at most people do not care to investigate the background of the food.

                                            But, ice cream? Oh wow, aren't we oh so suddenly upset about what goes into Kawartha Dairy's ice cream. But, only because they made it easy for us and put the ingredients on the label. Other food products can be just as bad. You just don't know, or really care because they didn't make it easy for you to know and care.

                                            But, don't get me wrong, Costco does have many eco-friendly and organic food products, along with some frozen fish that is not farmed but wild caught, or tomato sauce in glass bottles without the nasty bisphenol-A, etc. and I do like to shop there, but I am very picky about what I will buy and put in my body.

                                            I just had to write something because I found the many response and focus on this one single product quite interesting to occur when others are just as bad if not worse but there is rarely outrage (and certainly not with this many messages in a little over a day).

                                            Ok my rant is over, lol.

                                            31 Replies
                                            1. re: Flexitarian

                                              Bring it to people's attention then!

                                              Also the big issue with Kawartha Dairy is that it wasn't always this way; they were once a respectable company that thousands of Canadians loved (and sadly it appears many still do), but one can't help but be very disappointed when a small local dairy that used to make quality products sells its soul in the name of profits, mass commercial expansion, and the average consumer isn't even aware of it..

                                              I don't understand why you find it hilarious; should people not be upset about it ? I don't understand your grievance with it

                                              1. re: Flexitarian

                                                That was an informative post but I don't think that there is a need to limit one's anger/outrage to one particular product.

                                                I think Duckdown's thread is good in highlighting that a product says "family recipe" on the label and makes you think that nothing has changed but still has all kind of extra stuff in the product is a good thing. I agree that there should be better labelling in general and those other items would ideally be labelled as suck as well.

                                                I think KD hits home more because it is a Canadian product too..

                                                1. re: Flexitarian

                                                  Flexitarian, you are way off topic and pillorying one single well intentioned vendor.
                                                  To get back on track, Costco has introduced Kirkland vanilla ice cream, made with cream, milk, sugar, eggs, vanilla extract, and two common additives, guar and agar. It is dense, and similar to Haagen Daz, without the traces of vanilla beans. It is not bargain priced, and you have to buy a 2-pack.
                                                  I think it will be a wake up pill for Kawartha and the other chemistry merchants.

                                                  1. re: jayt90

                                                    Not really off-topic as although the topic concerns ice-cream it also is focused on a product with chemicals in it that makes it not as authentic as people might think it is. In any event, I am not the first person to veer of a thread a bit.

                                                    As for hilarious, I didn't mean in a 'funny' way, but more in an interesting way.

                                                    1. re: Flexitarian

                                                      Not off topic? Seriously?

                                                      That may be a position which you will find difficult to defend.

                                                      This thread is about KD, not concerning products that Costco carries which may have harmful additives, let alone those in the packaging no less.

                                                      Back on track, has anyone contacted KD to further dig into this theory?

                                                      I would wager that there is a significant difference in ingredients in the Retail store KD 'scooped' product vs. the mass production general retail product. Either way, even prior to their secretive attempt to save costs, I never liked the mass production general retail tubs, they always tasted like that 'inflated mass distributed' ice cream crap which sadly, appeals to the masses.

                                                      1. re: Sadistick

                                                        I contacted them yesterday - waiting on a response. thanks!

                                                        1. re: justsayn

                                                          I sincerely doubt they'll respond to an open forum post on their FaceBook page.

                                                          1. re: Googs

                                                            If there is an open forum post, it wasn't by me. I emailed them.

                                                              1. re: duckdown

                                                                As a matter of fact....

                                                                Hi ... ….thanks for taking the time to write. There is some misinformation floating around the internet right now (imagine that!) about this topic. All of our flavours, whether packed in 11.4L tubs, 1.5L containers or 500ml containers, is exactly the same. All ice cream, whether purchased at our own stores or any other outlet, is exactly the same. Any difference in a scooped cone you get would be ENTIRELY due to the care and handling of the ice cream at that particular shop.

                                                                Thanks for your support of our company and for your interest in our products. If there is anything else you need information about, please let me know. Have a great summer!

                                                                1. re: justsayn

                                                                  What did your original e mail say?

                                                                  1. re: LexiFirefly

                                                                    My original email...

                                                                    I am writing to confirm or deny what I have been told. I am hoping that you can help us!

                                                                    Moose Tracks is our all time favourite come cottage time, and I am told that the recipe/ingredients are different between the large tubs scooped at your retail shop and the grocery store version in the small containers.

                                                                    Are there different formulas for Moose Tracks under the Kawartha brand? And, if so, can you send us the nutrition info and hopefully the ingredients for each?

                                                                    Thanks very much - look forward to your information!

                                                                    1. re: justsayn

                                                                      Thanks! I was wondering if they dodged the question or answered it. I would be curious too see an answer about the ingredients, but then that is my perogative. Thanks JS!

                                                                  2. re: justsayn

                                                                    There is no discussion or justification of the increased use of additives in Kawartha Dairy ice cream. They have sideswiped the issue, leaving us with Haagen Daz, Whole Foods, and Kirkland with honest disclosure.

                                                                    1. re: jayt90

                                                                      Slow down jay. Where do you get that from? They answered the questions I asked perfectly. Not the questions you were thinking in your own mind or listed within this thread.

                                                                      1. re: jayt90

                                                                        Agreed that there really is no excuse.. I expected they wouldn't address the situation properly or at least give a canned response but I guess justsayn didn't even mention the dodgy ingredients.. only asked if there were any differences between the product sizes (which i never would have thought there would be anyways)

                                                                        it's too bad he didn't point them to this thread or inquire about the bulking agents and additives though

                                                                        cheers

                                                                        1. re: duckdown

                                                                          Hi duck. I just didn't want sadistick's representation of Kawartha to sit out there unchecked. It was far too accusatory (unfair) in my mind to not let the company respond to the claims. I've never thought of Kawartha as a pure ice cream, (right or wrong) so there is no story there for me.

                                                                          As far as this thread, when I wrote back thanking him for the quick response I offered him the URL to this thread so he could see where his answer is being published [and why I asked].

                                                                          1. re: justsayn

                                                                            Oh, I'm sure they know it by now. Check the "comments by others".
                                                                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kawart...

                                                                            Not that they'll care. They didn't just randomly become successful. Blake Frazer is a monster navigator.

                                                                            1. re: Googs

                                                                              Looks like they removed the option. Or facebook just blows on my mobile browser...

                                                                            2. re: justsayn

                                                                              lol, whoa.. wearing the shoe on the opposite foot today, are we?

                                                                              Good on ya!

                                                                        2. re: justsayn

                                                                          What a load of nonsense.

                                                                          For anyone who believes this and has tried both their formulation in KD retail stores (see; a scoop or a freshly scooped tub) vs. a non KD retail outlet (e.g. Pusateri's) I have some fantastic swampland in Florida with a nice bridge on it to sell them.

                                                                          1. re: Sadistick

                                                                            Hmm, wasn't that was their reply right from KD themselves though.. The rep was misinformed?

                                                                            1. re: duckdown

                                                                              I think he is calling KD liars (unfortunately).

                                                                            2. re: Sadistick

                                                                              The flavour of ice cream is affected by temperature just like every other foodstuff. The difference between the scoop and the store is likely only that. It's easily resolved by letting your ice cream "sit out" for a little while before scooping and enjoying.

                                                                              There's no percentage in running that many lines. It would be prohibitively expensive.

                                                                  3. re: Sadistick

                                                                    just curious...what "harmful additives" do you see in Kirkland's (Costco) ingredient list?? I can't spot any.

                                                                    1. re: The Professor

                                                                      I think Sadistick's point is about Flexitarian's comments about "harmful additives" like Bisphenol-A in lining of the cans of fish Costco sells. Not about the Kirkland ice cream.

                                                                      1. re: Full tummy

                                                                        Indeed.

                                                                        Keep us posted, justsayn...curious to hear how they handle (if they do!) this one.

                                                                        1. re: Sadistick

                                                                          Let's put it this way, if they don't respond I will sick KWASS on them!!! : )

                                                              2. re: Flexitarian

                                                                I haven't bought those products. Undoubtedly, there are many things I wouldn't eat if I knew their story. Sometimes it's the story that turns one off, and sometimes it's the taste. For me, I just don't enjoy ice cream made from gums. Just like I don't like vegetable oil based whipped toppings. Some people do. Some people can't tell the difference. I suspect most people are not bothered by a gum-based ice cream, since that's what the vast majority of people are happily eating. To me, the mouth feel is just unpleasant.

                                                                1. re: Flexitarian

                                                                  As far as I understand, pine mouth is caused by Chinese-sourced pine nuts that are from a different variety of pine, rather than the result of anyone spraying pine nuts with a nasty chemical.

                                                                2. We used to get Kawartha Dairy ice cream in the 70s at camp - and it was never fresh or particularly tasty. It was kind of foamy and fake tasting even back then. I have bought it for nostalgia's sake but it's not my go-to brand for super great ice cream.

                                                                  1. Glad you posted this. Got my attention.
                                                                    No way those ingredients are an original family recipe.
                                                                    Commercial corporate factory ice cream seems to focus on flavour (natural or artificial) at the expense of texture.
                                                                    Just fluff & foam is not satisfying, especially when I know I'm ingesting multiple gums, glucose, & other gunk.
                                                                    A good quality ice cream lasts in the mouth.
                                                                    I did enjoy some Metropolitan vanilla ice cream a while ago but I didn't check ingredients (not on their website either). Think I got it because it was cheaper than Haagen Daaz.

                                                                    1. Hey there…I work for Kawartha Dairy and while we always like to hear discussion about our product, both positive and negative, I wanted to correct a few statements that have been made here about our ice cream. I don’t intend to get into any discussion about individual ingredients and the pros or cons of any of them, as that is an entire discussion on its own, with varying opinions and facts, depending on who you listen to. With regard to recent posts here:

                                                                      -all Kawartha Dairy ice cream is the same, regardless of where it is sold or what package it is in. We don’t make different “versions” of our flavours under the name “Kawartha Dairy”. There is only one formulation for each flavour.

                                                                      -the first two ingredients in all of our flavours of ice cream are fresh Ontario milk and cream, most of which comes from within 100 km of our facility in Bobcaygeon, Ontario. We don’t use “butteroil blends” in our product (a sneaky way of getting around import quotas to bring foreign dairy ingredients blended with vegetable and/or palm oils into Canada). We don’t add oil to our ice cream. Period. Our ice cream is real ice cream, not “frozen dessert”. While some of our flavours may contain modified milk ingredients, they are not the primary source of dairy in our ice cream….fresh milk and cream is – check the label. By the way, modified milk ingredients aren’t as evil as they sound….some of the most common are skim milk powder, buttermilk powder and whey powder. Any that we use are all of Canadian origin.

                                                                      -we have never, ever, in all our 76 year history, ever proclaimed ourselves to be “all natural” “organic”, or anything insinuating that. If we had to describe ourselves, it would be something like “producers of real ice cream made the old fashioned way”. There are all kinds of ice cream companies out there, making all kinds of product for all kinds of tastes and budgets. Be sure you are comparing apples to apples to be fair.

                                                                      -we have not recently changed any of our formulations. Over the years, slight changes have occurred, as happens within any company that makes food products, but our basic recipes remain unchanged. The recent change was packaging only – not formulation!

                                                                      -one recent change to our ingredient labels was the result of changes to federal legislation that has to do with allergen declarations. Simply put, if a food plant makes items containing any of the seven identified allergens on the list, they have to be declared on the package….even if the product in hand does not contain them. While the reasons for this change are understandable and commendable, it has led to some confusion among consumers.

                                                                      -some of our longest ingredient lists are the result of the “inclusions” (sauces, peanut butter cups, cookies etc.) that are added to our various base ice cream flavours. It is what it is….a simpler flavour will have a shorter list. The choice is up to the consumer….that’s what good ingredient labelling enables the consumer to do.

                                                                      -we use granulated sugar as our primary sweetener, not fructose or glucose. Some of the ingredients we use in the recipes contain these sweeteners in their makeup but old fashioned, “real” granulated sugar is the primary sweetener we use.

                                                                      -as for air in our products, ALL ice cream contains a certain amount of air, which is required to enable the product to be scooped. The industry term for this is “overrun”. We have a bit less overrun than some ice creams and a bit more than others.

                                                                      -our strawberry ice cream? We use a strawberry puree, always have. It’s real strawberry, but you won’t find any whole strawberries in it, because it’s a puree.

                                                                      -if you want to contact us, please feel free to do so at info@kawarthadairy.com .We pride ourselves on being accessible and responsive to our customers. We also do have a website….not the most cutting edge but answers most of the basics people want to know. www.kawarthadairy.com

                                                                      5 Replies
                                                                      1. re: kawarthadairy

                                                                        I think the lesson here is, everyone who was already enjoying Kawartha Dairy ice cream should just go on doing so. It's about what you like, after all.

                                                                        I don't eat it because there are others I prefer. That they're also chemlab free is a bonus. However, since Chapman's is the only one with my sentimental favourite, butter pecan, once in a while I'll eat Chapman's. I can read. I can decide for myself.

                                                                        1. re: kawarthadairy

                                                                          Thank you for replying but unfortunately you have avoided the most delicate areas of the conversation..

                                                                          First you claim you to use sugar as your primary sweetener, and specifically go out of your way to say you don't use fructose or glucose. Yet two of the primary ingredients in your strawbery ice cream are both dextrose and glucose. As a matter of fact, glucose comes literally one step after the sugar in the ingredients list which means its more than NONE obviously, and is actually a very very considerable amount. If there is no "swirls" and "sauces" or "cups" in the ice cream, then what is the glucose doing there so high up the list? Nice try

                                                                          Secondly; you claim you only use real strawberry and it's a puree, yet artificial color AND flavor are both included in the ingredient list. Hmmmm... What?

                                                                          Then you also contradict yourselves by first saying "Over the years, slight changes have occurred" but then finish your sentence with "The recent change was packaging only – not formulation!". PS: I don't consider a laundry list full of gums, additives, and artificial flavors and colors in what should be a simple strawberry ice cream to be "slight changes"; something tells me the majority of these ingredients were certainly not around back in the '60's when you guys opened your "dairy" in the first place.. And you justified it by saying every food company out there makes the changes you guys have made. It sadly may be true with the majority of major commercial enterprises but it's certainly the choice you guys have made, and nothing that HAD to happen.

                                                                          As for no discrepancies between the large commercial tubs and small retail containers, I guess thanks for clearing that up, but I don't think anybody besides one person ever doubted that anyways.

                                                                          Your ice cream may not be labelled "frozen dessert" by law but you are sadly fooling yourselves if you think it's "REAL ice cream", and there definitely is nothing old fashioned about it.

                                                                          1. re: duckdown

                                                                            Sounds like the best solution for you is to just move on to another brand. You're not being forced to buy the stuff.

                                                                            1. re: duckdown

                                                                              Duckdown, this is definitely not meant to be an affront as I enjoy your posts and recommendations for BBQ joints. I think it may come down to people have various "tolerances" for what's in their food. For example, I am dairy intolerant, so there isn't a huge selection of cookies out there for me to eat, so when I get my hands on Oreos, (which are dairy free), I totally go for it, and don't worry about the label so much.
                                                                              Dextrose, yes, is derived from corn but it is important in desserts and ice cream because it's less sweet than sugar and helps to depress the freezing point. Also, I used to sell kitchen equipment and have seen the insides of a lot of high end pastry kitchens in the city...glucose syrup is very very often on the shelf because of it's specific properties, and a lot of great chefs use it. May I ask what the issue is with different sugars being used?
                                                                              In the end, as was mentioned above, there's room for all different levels of products in the market, and again, this is not meant to go against your post or anything; just trying to understand a bit more about what the problem is with some of these ingredients?

                                                                          2. I’ve stayed out of this so far as I don’t consume Kawartha ice-cream on a regular basis. To reveal my biases, the only ‘commercial’ products I eat more than a couple of times a year are Haagen-Dazs and Gelato Fresco.
                                                                            BUT in my deep and distant (often censored past) I used to work for a large company that produced major Brands and I was selected (after a blind taste test) to be on their tasting panel for the development of new ice-cream products. This has left me with a lasting respect for the ‘blind taste test’ and in my past tastings of various brands – over several years (and often documented on these Boards) - there has been little to choose between most ‘widely distributed’ brands.
                                                                            My notes on Kawartha (a few years back) indicate that my main criticism was the lack of any detectable aromatics in the vanilla product – i.e. the vanilla didn’t smell of vanilla. I find no mention of texture – by omission suggests it was near ‘average’.
                                                                            So all around a ‘middle-of-the road’, commercial product. And has been for years. So fair enough that there have been no significant recent changes. Although those ‘modified milk ingredients’ can potentially hide a multitude of sins (not suggesting that they necessarily do). Also, how many among us can distinguish between the various forms of sugar – having granulated sugar may be a lifestyle preference, or even a chemical imbalance issue, but once mixed in in ‘small quantities’ it is rarely a taste issue (but fodder for marketing initiatives).
                                                                            My rule-of-thumb for ice-cream is to take a carton (500ml or 1000ml are most commonly available) and just compare the weights. There can be as much as 30% difference (maybe more in jumbo packs which are not easily compared), which is primarily due to the amount of air whipped in (the ‘overrun’). Clearly, if you get 30 % less product in a ‘standard’ carton, it would be cheaper to produce (pricing is another matter). The mouth feel is also different, although to some extent that can be counteracted by adding edible gums to the product.
                                                                            If you’re eating ice-cream ‘by itself’ then I believe most of us can detect a premium product. When served with other ingredients (apple pie?) then the variations are not as distinct (but still detectable).
                                                                            And without doubt the ‘boutique’ operations, that typically serve by the scoop, have huge variability. Just try and get the ingredient listings on those!
                                                                            But overall, just chill and enjoy.

                                                                            8 Replies
                                                                            1. re: estufarian

                                                                              This is probably a stupid question, but in regard to comparing the weights, the one with more natural ingredients would be heavier, right?

                                                                              1. re: kwass

                                                                                No, the one with less air whipped into it will be heavier, regardless of ingredients used.

                                                                                I once bought a container of Greg's ice cream (a "premium" local ice cream, right?) from Summerhill Market and it was so light, I thought it was only half full. It was the worst ice cream I've had in ages: gritty, airy, horrible.

                                                                              2. re: estufarian

                                                                                estufarian, was your last taste from a KD retail location or from a mass produced tub?

                                                                                In my meagerly unsophisticated QC lab, I ran the following protocol: Purchasing the same flavour, one from Pusateri's (the manager assured me they just recently came in, so one would assume/hope, fairly fresh) and one purchased from the retail Barrie outlet and then let them sit in the same freezer for 1 week.

                                                                                I pose the following question to KD:
                                                                                Why is it that the same spoon so easily slid through the massed produced product, yet the 'hand packed' one (I grant there would be some added density due to the 'packing') was as I would expect high quality ice cream to be; solid as a rock.

                                                                                The difference in mouth-feel? Give me a break.....

                                                                                KD should stick to KD Retail store sales only if they cannot or perhaps are not willing to, maintain a consistent level of quality.

                                                                                It's sad to have to say this especially given fond memories as a child with my grandparents, sitting on the cow outside the Bobcaygeon store enjoying a cone.

                                                                                1. re: Sadistick

                                                                                  But what did KD answer to your question?

                                                                                  1. re: Sadistick

                                                                                    Last taste from mass-produced tub.
                                                                                    'Texture' is VERY important to me (which I have referred to as mouth-feel).
                                                                                    Take the same ice-cream product (whether KD or other) and try some straight from the freezer, and then 5-10 minutes later (without replacing in freezer). I find those tastes surprisingly different. (Of course I could approximate that by holding the ice-cream in y mouth for 10-20 seconds - but doing the latter negates the pleasurable aspects!).
                                                                                    One of my favourite EVER desserts was 4 tastes of 'ice' (not cream) where the different portions were differently prepared - a shaved ice, a sorbet, a granite and don't recall the 4th. So simple yet totally different mouth-feel (and flavour) from each sample.

                                                                                    1. re: estufarian

                                                                                      If you are ever able to, get your hands on some from a KD retail outlet. A supremely positive world of a difference on all fronts.

                                                                                2. It's only the French Vanilla that isn't chock full of those ingredients.

                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                  1. re: Chester Eleganté

                                                                                    Not true, did you look at the other flavors like mayan chocolate, strawberry, and so on? Maybe the ones with things like cookie dough chunks and caramel cone explosion will naturally have a longer list of ingredients, but not the vanilla, vanilla bean, mayan chocolate, strawberry, etc

                                                                                    edit: wait, sorry, are you talking about HD or Kawartha Dairy now? KD is filled with nasty ingredients regardless of flavor, HD is what I was referring to