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Foods you pronounce incorrectly.

Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:42 AM

So we were talking about some of the over-enunciation of certain food hosts and food pronunciation. Has there ever been a food you pronounced flat-out wrong. And finally figured it out?

Here's mine. Quinoa.

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  1. pinehurst RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:45 AM

    Amuse bouche. Finally was corrected by a student of mine who's also a server...he did it in a very nice way. It started when I was in my twenties and was offered an amuse bouche by a lovely young lady who mispronounced it; I believed that pronunciation and ftt, 18 years later I got it right.

    Live and learn.

    8 Replies
    1. re: pinehurst
      Firegoat RE: pinehurst Jun 27, 2013 06:47 AM

      And that is a phrase I was always hesitant to use because I was pretty sure I wasn't saying it quite right. Mise en place was another.

      1. re: Firegoat
        pinehurst RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:51 AM

        Yeah, and you know, part of it is because we're not using the terms everyday. But you know how some folks can mispronounce something and be charming, like a little kid saying "pisghetti?" I'm so not charming. I just sound uninformed, like "Oh, tell me about the rabbits, George"

      2. re: pinehurst
        Chinon00 RE: pinehurst Jun 27, 2013 06:52 AM

        Courvoisier. I will pronounce it "KOH-vah-see-A" always and don't care what people think of me;]

        1. re: Chinon00
          l
          lagatta RE: Chinon00 Jun 28, 2013 02:54 AM

          How do you pronounce Chinon?

          1. re: lagatta
            Chinon00 RE: lagatta Jun 28, 2013 05:21 AM

            Sheen-yaw;]

            1. re: Chinon00
              mbfant RE: Chinon00 Jun 29, 2013 05:36 AM

              Sorry, but that's the pronunciation of the hairstyle, chignon, not the charming town in the Loire valley, Chinon, which would be shee-naw (more or less).

          2. re: Chinon00
            Bacchus101 RE: Chinon00 Jun 28, 2013 10:30 AM

            Certainly one reason to pronounce any word correctly when dining might be to shield ones self from a quizzical look from server or fellow diners. My main reason for trying to get it right is simply to pronounce the word correctly, I care what I think of me. Unfortunately to spite my efforts I have a large group of words relative to food which I frequently and badly mispronounce.

          3. re: pinehurst
            Tripeler RE: pinehurst Jun 29, 2013 01:55 AM

            To me, that sounds too much like "abuse douche" though I have never mistakenly said that.

          4. g
            gfr1111 RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:50 AM

            Chateau d'Yquem. I've read two authoritative wine books that supplied supposedly correct pronunciations, but they were different: "d'kem" and "d'yeem." I still don't know which way to say it, or if there is some third way that is correct.

            1 Reply
            1. re: gfr1111
              d
              DeppityDawg RE: gfr1111 Jun 27, 2013 08:18 AM

              "D-kem" is pretty good. As in "I got a _D_ in _chem_ class this semester".

            2. nsenada RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:52 AM

              Not a food, but I was never quite sure how to pronounce Le Creuset (crew-zay) until recently. "Mars-capone" (the space mobster) and "chipolte" are like nails on a blackboard to me.

              16 Replies
              1. re: nsenada
                Firegoat RE: nsenada Jun 27, 2013 06:55 AM

                Carp. Add Le Creuset to my list.

                1. re: nsenada
                  monavano RE: nsenada Jun 27, 2013 06:57 AM

                  I was always flummoxed by Pillivuyt.

                  1. re: monavano
                    pinehurst RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 07:00 AM

                    You are brave. I wouldn't even try to say Pillivuyt. I'd walk in with a piece of paper, point and smile like Giada.

                    1. re: pinehurst
                      EWSflash RE: pinehurst Jun 29, 2013 03:48 PM

                      I think I read on Martha Stewart's site (she used to carry some Pillivuyt) that it's pronounced 'pilly-voit'.

                  2. re: nsenada
                    TroyTempest RE: nsenada Jun 27, 2013 06:57 AM

                    I make it a point to pronounce chipotle correctly, because the right way just sounds wrong.
                    So what is the correct pronunciation of Le Creuset? I always thought it was crew-zay, like you had it, ubtil one day at the store this woman kept saying "crew-shay", so now i'm confused.

                    1. re: TroyTempest
                      monavano RE: TroyTempest Jun 27, 2013 07:01 AM

                      If Bobby Flay, King of Peppers, can correct his pronunciation of chipotle, anyone can!

                      1. re: TroyTempest
                        mtlcowgirl RE: TroyTempest Jul 29, 2013 09:08 AM

                        Don't feel bad. It is impossible to pronounce it correctly unless you are a fluent French speaker. Announcers on English language television always get it wrong.

                        1. re: mtlcowgirl
                          linguafood RE: mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 11:30 AM

                          I'm not a fluent French speaker by any means, but I can pronounce pretty much any word in the romanic languages flawlessly, including Le Creuset.

                          Good hearing and a talent to reproduce sounds accurately are important factors. Even fluent speakers often have accents they cannot shake.

                          1. re: linguafood
                            TroyTempest RE: linguafood Aug 6, 2013 11:17 AM

                            So, what exactly is the right way? Spell it out phonetically for me.
                            Is it:
                            a. crew-zay
                            b. crew-shay
                            c. something else

                            1. re: TroyTempest
                              linguafood RE: TroyTempest Aug 6, 2013 01:13 PM

                              Ya know, I reallllly suck at the phonetic spelling (this thread has made that rather clear to me :-)).

                              I guess the "eu" sound is easy for me, because it's basically the "ö" in German. I don't know how I would/could represent that sound in English phonetics......

                              The ending is closer to -eh (think Canada) or -ay.

                              Sorry, I'm not much of a help.

                              1. re: linguafood
                                TroyTempest RE: linguafood Aug 6, 2013 02:53 PM

                                so, that would be choice "c", then?

                                1. re: TroyTempest
                                  linguafood RE: TroyTempest Aug 6, 2013 03:04 PM

                                  I guess 'a' would be the closest, as there is def no 'sh' sound. It's a 'z' sound.

                                  1. re: linguafood
                                    TroyTempest RE: linguafood Aug 7, 2013 08:12 AM

                                    Now that wasn't so hard was it ;-)

                                    1. re: TroyTempest
                                      linguafood RE: TroyTempest Aug 7, 2013 10:36 AM

                                      It was. The first part, "crew", is still wrong :-)

                                      1. re: linguafood
                                        TroyTempest RE: linguafood Aug 8, 2013 09:54 AM

                                        Right. I know the sound that you are talking about. It would be hard to type it out. I guess the last part was more my concern.

                      2. re: nsenada
                        l
                        lagatta RE: nsenada Jun 28, 2013 02:56 AM

                        Crew-zay is a very poor approximation of the actual pronunciation. Anglophones are better off pronouncing the Creu sort of like "Duh"or better yet that "euuuh" sound that people make in disgust; that would be closer to the pronunciation of the eu. Zay is ok, but remember that the vowel is shorter in French.

                      3. monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:55 AM

                        Valpolicella wine comes to mind. Used to pronounce it Valapacella.
                        I'm sure I'll think of more ;-)

                        1. Firegoat RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:57 AM

                          Sur la Table also on the list. Although I think I have it correct now. Thanks to South Park.

                          2 Replies
                          1. re: Firegoat
                            monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:58 AM

                            I still garble the "Table"!
                            Tab? Tablah?
                            Oy.

                            1. re: monavano
                              juliejulez RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 09:46 AM

                              Me too :) It usually ends up sounding rather hickish when I say it.

                          2. AmyH RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:57 AM

                            I have been informed by my daughter that I have been pronouncing the name of the cheese called feta wrong. I say "fay-ta" and she says that everyone (EVERYONE!) else in the world says "feh-ta".

                            I'm so embarrassed (hanging my head in shame).

                            1. monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:00 AM

                              Close to Feta... Fage, the Greek yogurt. Been eating it for years but recently viewing commercials, I realize I've been saying it wrong all this time.

                              15 Replies
                              1. re: monavano
                                Firegoat RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 07:04 AM

                                Let me guess... it isn't pronounced like "FAGE! I'm gonna live forever I'm gonna learn how to fly.. FAGE!"

                                add another to my list...

                                1. re: Firegoat
                                  monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:06 AM

                                  I thought I was so cosmopolitan calling if "fay-ya", but it's "fie-yay" or something like that.
                                  I give up!

                                  1. re: monavano
                                    s
                                    Scruffy The Cat RE: monavano Jun 29, 2013 02:45 PM

                                    It's "fah-yeh" (well, close enough) -- "fie-yay" means "go away". ;-)

                                  2. re: Firegoat
                                    pinehurst RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:07 AM

                                    :-D
                                    Nor like the herb that loves poultry. Oh no. It's pronounced kinda like people in Boston say "fire".

                                    fah-yeh.

                                    See? Easy peasy.

                                    Baby remembuh my name
                                    Remembuh, remembuh, remembuh

                                  3. re: monavano
                                    s
                                    small h RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 07:02 PM

                                    As long as I've been buying Fage, I have known the correct way to pronounce it ('cause it's on the package), and yet I insist on pretending it rhymes with "page." This thread has inspired me to wonder why, and I've come to the conclusion that I just resent the way it's spelled. Doesn't Greek have its own alphabet? Couldn't the manufacturers of Fage have chosen a set of letters that English speakers would intuitively pronounce correctly? I think they're screwing with us, and I don't like it.

                                    1. re: small h
                                      d
                                      DeppityDawg RE: small h Jun 27, 2013 07:15 PM

                                      You're right, "Fage" is an unfortunate transliteration, and they could have gone with "Faye" or "Fayé" if they really wanted non-Greeks to pronounce the name halfway correctly. But maybe they really don't care how you say it, as long as you keep buying it.

                                      1. re: DeppityDawg
                                        s
                                        small h RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 07:20 PM

                                        Just reassure me that Chobani doesn't start with a hard "ch." Or I'm going to have to stop eating yogurt altogether.

                                        1. re: small h
                                          d
                                          DeppityDawg RE: small h Jun 27, 2013 07:44 PM

                                          Come on, it's yogurt. It's soft.

                                          1. re: DeppityDawg
                                            s
                                            small h RE: DeppityDawg Jun 28, 2013 08:45 AM

                                            Phew. That's a relief.

                                          2. re: small h
                                            Gastronomos RE: small h Jun 28, 2013 08:47 AM

                                            no need to stop, but it is a 'hard' "Ch"... sorry...

                                          3. re: DeppityDawg
                                            s
                                            Scruffy The Cat RE: DeppityDawg Jun 29, 2013 02:50 PM

                                            Well, it's a pretty close transliteration of ΦΑΓΕ and they probably felt like people should just cope with one measly little word in someone else's language.

                                            1. re: Scruffy The Cat
                                              Gastronomos RE: Scruffy The Cat Jun 29, 2013 03:36 PM

                                              As I understand it, the name TOTAL was front and center on the package and it was marketed as TOTAL (brand) Greek yogurt. Fage was the name brand.
                                              Like Cheerios is made by General Mills... Total (Greek {style} yogurt) is made by Fage.

                                              Fage saw the success and switched the labeling around and made the company name Front and Center: FAGE
                                              and total was made diminutive.
                                              it's too bad because a gyro by any other name....

                                              1. re: Gastronomos
                                                EWSflash RE: Gastronomos Jun 29, 2013 03:55 PM

                                                Which reminds me, is it pronounced YEAR-oh? There are lots of different pronunciations. Even Martha Stewart called it a JY-ro, which I'm pretty sure is the most wrong way to say it of all.

                                                1. re: EWSflash
                                                  ChefJune RE: EWSflash Jul 5, 2013 12:13 PM

                                                  It's closer to "year-oh" than "JY-ro." but if you want to get technical, it's HYear-oh." Definnitely NOT "JY-roe."

                                                  1. re: EWSflash
                                                    Gastronomos RE: EWSflash Jul 5, 2013 04:54 PM

                                                    If I am speaking English to order one here in New York I say "JY-ro" as you spell it. (think gyroscope)
                                                    If I am speaking Greek to order one anywhere in the world I would pronounce it in Greek as "Yee-ro"

                                        2. LindaWhit RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:22 AM

                                          Not a food, but when I was about 17-18, I was reading a book and called out to my mother "Mom? What does TEEtotaler mean?" She said "WHAT?"

                                          I pronounced it again as TEE-toh-TAY-ler. She asked me to read the sentence, and said "Ohhhh! TeeTOtaler. It means someone who doesn't drink alcohol."

                                          I replied "Well, no WONDER I didn't know what it was!" (18 was the drinking age in NJ at the time, and yes, I drank whiskey sours back then.)

                                          So I still say TEE-toh-TAY-ler to my family. :-)

                                          2 Replies
                                          1. re: LindaWhit
                                            Firegoat RE: LindaWhit Jun 27, 2013 07:23 AM

                                            That sounds like a fine designer of golfing dungarees.

                                            1. re: LindaWhit
                                              w
                                              Wawsanham RE: LindaWhit Jul 2, 2013 05:44 PM

                                              I used to pronounce it the same way. In fact, my instinct is still to say "tee-to-TAY-lor" It's a stupid word anyway.

                                            2. Terrie H. RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:52 AM

                                              When someone asks me if I speak French or Italian, I can honestly say no, except for “food.” But because I don’t actually speak those languages, I’m certain I’ve mispronounced lots of things. I would love it if someone corrected me, but I think most others have no clue either. I do my best.

                                              I had a highly educated boyfriend some years ago, who was German and spoke English and French, who insisted that Le Creuset was pronounced “le kroy-say,” and his insistence was based on an old friend who lived in the town where it is produced. To this day, I’ve never heard anyone in any profession pronounce it other than “le crew-say.”

                                              My 76-year-old father can murder any term in any language. He has 4 daughters that cook and are pretty adventurous, so he wants to add to the conversation, but he has never pronounced a single word correctly – ever. Fortunately, he laughs with us after we giggle. We correct, yet he still hasn’t remembered how to say it since. He knows it – we know it – laughs ensue....

                                              4 Replies
                                              1. re: Terrie H.
                                                Firegoat RE: Terrie H. Jun 27, 2013 07:54 AM

                                                My soon to be ex BF was made Quinoa by me. I think his response was WTF is this? And I said... "Quin - Noah"... he just nodded and said oh okay I've heard about this.

                                                1. re: Terrie H.
                                                  l
                                                  lagatta RE: Terrie H. Jun 28, 2013 03:01 AM

                                                  Terrie, that is funny, as Oy is the proper pronuciation of the "eu" in German - think Freud. French people persist in mispronouncing it with the same eu as in Le Creuset.

                                                  1. re: Terrie H.
                                                    Candy RE: Terrie H. Jun 28, 2013 10:19 AM

                                                    I've always have said it is really necessary to learn menu language/ French, Spanish, Italian etc. I learn from reading cookbooks.

                                                    We were in a little French bistro in London, My DH asked me what Rognons were. He would been unhappy to have a plate of kidneys served to him.

                                                    1. re: Candy
                                                      l
                                                      lagatta RE: Candy Jun 28, 2013 06:21 PM

                                                      But more and more, our culinary repertoire has expanded worldwide. I speak French and Italian as fluently as English, and half-decent Spanish (also more than a modicum of German) but I'm at a loss with East and South Asian languages - a rising tide, as they should be.

                                                  2. monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 08:23 AM

                                                    Surprised no one has mentioned bruschetta yet! C'mon, I can't be the only one who did a face palm when I realized it's "broosketa"!

                                                    14 Replies
                                                    1. re: monavano
                                                      Firegoat RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 08:25 AM

                                                      F.

                                                      1. re: monavano
                                                        jmckee RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                        The director of a classical chorus to which I belong is of Italian heritage, plus he teaches about singing in Italian. Upon correcting us on a "CH" pronunciation a few months back, he offered this bit of advice: "If you are in an Italian restaurant, and the waiter asks if you want some bruschetta, LEAVE. Just go. Get up and LEAVE."

                                                        1. re: monavano
                                                          s
                                                          salsailsa RE: monavano Jun 29, 2013 01:01 PM

                                                          Agree and "Bolognase" as well. An Italian friend corrected that one.

                                                          1. re: salsailsa
                                                            j
                                                            Jerseygirl111 RE: salsailsa Jun 29, 2013 03:38 PM

                                                            Uh oh. Bo-lah-naze, correct? Rhymes with maze? Or is it
                                                            bo-lah-nazee, rhymes with crazy?

                                                            1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                              l
                                                              lagatta RE: Jerseygirl111 Jun 29, 2013 05:34 PM

                                                              Neither. You are ignoring the GN sound, and the final e is pronounced but unvoiced, sort of like the English schwa.

                                                              Not the typo above: Bolognese, not ase.

                                                              And Jersey Girl, Bo-lo, not bo-lah. However, New Jersey Italian-American pronunciations are part of the lexicon there; I think they should be seen as regional variations, not errors, unless of course you are trying to make yourself understood in Italy

                                                              1. re: lagatta
                                                                j
                                                                Jerseygirl111 RE: lagatta Jul 1, 2013 11:39 PM

                                                                I still have no idea how to pronounce it, even after reading your post four times, schwa???

                                                                Boh-loh-what?

                                                                I do say Cala-mahd, mooz-ah-rell, and ri-gut-uh and
                                                                pruh-zhoot-a (Calamari, mozzerella, ricotta and prosciutto) which I realize stems from my NJ Italian/English speaking family.

                                                                1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                  l
                                                                  lagatta RE: Jerseygirl111 Jul 2, 2013 06:39 AM

                                                                  Jersey Girl, that is perfectly legitimate in NJ; it is practically a regional dialect. But some of your pronunciations would be hard to understand here in Montréal (among trilingual Italian-Montrealers), to say nothing of Italy. The point of standard pronunciations is better communication, not to put down people who speak a given regional or group language. "ri-gut-uh" sounds like the pronuciation in many parts of Southern Italy.

                                                                  The gn sound is similar to the ñ in Spanish: Italian Argentinians spell gnocchi "Ñoqui". Nya Nya is a rough approximation in English.

                                                                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa

                                                                  1. re: lagatta
                                                                    monavano RE: lagatta Jul 2, 2013 08:45 AM

                                                                    The point of standard pronunciations is better communication, not to put down people who speak a given regional or group language.
                                                                    *******
                                                                    Exactly. No one need change their dialect to pronounce something "correctly". Enjoy the diversity.
                                                                    I'm from Philadelphia and used to say "wooder" for water. I remember being poked fun at, like somehow I was intellectually inferior for saying "wooder", because, well, that's how Philadelphians say it.
                                                                    What that incident said about the a;hole who judged me said way more about him than me.

                                                                    1. re: lagatta
                                                                      j
                                                                      Jerseygirl111 RE: lagatta Jul 2, 2013 06:45 PM

                                                                      I would pronounce Bologna (the food) as Buh-loh-nee. The city in Italy as Boh-lohn-yaa. So then Bolognese becomes
                                                                      boh-lohn-ayz. I understand the gnocchi gn sound.

                                                                      1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                        maria lorraine RE: Jerseygirl111 Jul 2, 2013 06:55 PM

                                                                        Bologna (the meat) is pronounced like the City, as you have it.

                                                                        Baloney (the meat, the hogwash) is pronounced Buh-loh-nee.

                                                                        Bolognese is pronounced with one more syllable than you have it (outside of NJ): either boh-low-nyay-zay or boh-low-nyay-say.

                                                                        1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                          mariacarmen RE: maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 08:07 PM

                                                                          it's boh-loh-nyeh-zeh. not ay.

                                                                          1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                            maria lorraine RE: mariacarmen Jul 2, 2013 10:12 PM

                                                                            I have never ever heard that when in Bologna.

                                                                            Nevertheless, there are more than one way to say the -ese ending in Italian. Depends on the region, and how natives of that region say it.

                                                                            In and around Bologna, I've heard boh-low-nyay-zay or boh-low-nyay-say and also boh-low-nyay-zəh [the last syllable is de-emphasized, note the schwa].

                                                                            In Tuscany, the -ese in Sangiovese is pronounced most often vay-zay and vay-say, less commonly vay-səh. Never heard the -seh or -zeh ending.

                                                                            Calabrese: bray-zay, bress-say
                                                                            Abbruzzese: tsay-say (regional dialect), tsay-zay
                                                                            Piedmontese: tay-say, tess-say, tay-zay

                                                                            1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                              mariacarmen RE: maria lorraine Jul 5, 2013 10:50 AM

                                                                              hmmm, well, our experiences, or our perception of them anyway, are opposite. i lived in Italy for 6 months, and never heard anyone (even in Bologna) pronounce the "LO" in Bolognese as "ow" - but rather "oh" as in the "BO" of Bolognese.

                                                                              and i never heard anyone anywhere in Italy say "zay". i've noticed American language study books say "ay" for the "eh" sound in Spanish as well, but it's wrong. for instance, it's not "buaynos dias", it's "buehnohs" dias. I think people who write those books think Americans can't pronounce that sound, which is ridiculous.

                                                                              http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word...

                                                                              http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word...

                                                                  2. re: lagatta
                                                                    ChefJune RE: lagatta Jul 5, 2013 12:17 PM

                                                                    You don't ignore the gn sound. You roll it off your tongue. sounds kind of like Bolon-yaseh.

                                                            2. p
                                                              pine time RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 08:27 AM

                                                              I still say marzipaHn instead of -pan. I know the correct pronunciation, but I learned it wrong and I say it wrong.

                                                              On Chopped the other day, every chef and the 3 judges pronounced GYRO differently. I learned year-oh. What's the consensus on the correct pronunciation?

                                                              26 Replies
                                                              1. re: pine time
                                                                monavano RE: pine time Jun 27, 2013 08:29 AM

                                                                omg, that was driving me nuts! I've come to think that it's year-o, but I don't think one contestant or judge said it that way. There were some very strange pronunciations that I'd never heard of.

                                                                1. re: monavano
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                                                                  lseavey RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 08:34 AM

                                                                  +1. They should all be embarrassed.

                                                                  1. re: lseavey
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                                                                    Alfred G RE: lseavey Jun 29, 2013 05:12 PM

                                                                    +2. yee ro is correct.

                                                                    1. re: Alfred G
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                                                                      miriamjo RE: Alfred G Jun 29, 2013 08:17 PM

                                                                      year-oh, that is how I learned to say it in Greektown on Halstead St in Chicago. I cringe every time I hear jiro.

                                                                2. re: pine time
                                                                  Firegoat RE: pine time Jun 27, 2013 08:39 AM

                                                                  I admit that is one food I hate to order. Or I order by pointing. I have heard so many different pronunciations I don't have a clue what is correct.

                                                                  1. re: Firegoat
                                                                    Jpan99 RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:20 AM

                                                                    It's YEAR-oh. Not a "jay" sound like Jeye-roh or a "hard g" sound like guy-roh.

                                                                    1. re: Jpan99
                                                                      Firegoat RE: Jpan99 Jun 27, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                      Why can I only think of gyro-scope when I see it? (Jie-roe) Seriously... I've got some sort of mental block on this one. I don't know what it is. I'm fairly intelligent (I think). Have advanced degrees and speak several languages but this one just brain freezes me every time.

                                                                      1. re: Firegoat
                                                                        AmyH RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:25 AM

                                                                        Me, too! And now I'm wondering just how many times I've asked for extra "fay-ta" on my "Jie-roe"

                                                                  2. re: pine time
                                                                    a
                                                                    antimony RE: pine time Jun 27, 2013 11:29 AM

                                                                    Year-o is correct. Though it's probably the one I mispronounce the most often, because if I order a "year-o" at the work cafeteria they stare at me, but if I order a "gy-ro" I am handed the food object I want. (Which is NOT a gyro anyway, it's a pita-and-falafel sandwich, lol.)

                                                                    That episode of Chopped had me boggling, too. Surprisingly, I didn't catch anyone use the older mis-but-closer-than many pronunciation of "hero".

                                                                    1. re: antimony
                                                                      Caroline1 RE: antimony Jul 2, 2013 07:06 AM

                                                                      Depends on how accurate you want to be. There is no English equivalent of the "g" in gyro, but... If you pronounce a really tight "y" from the back of your throat while simultaneously pronouncing an "h" it will be fairly close. Think "hissing" with your uvula. It's yhyheeroh. As if you are going to pronounce the "g", as in "go," but the back of your tongue never quite connects with your soft palate for the full "g" sound.

                                                                      I just spent some time trying to find a website that has an audio of the correct pronunciation with no luck, but I did find one of some woman in a gypsy costume (well, something like that) who was teaching the world how to pronounce it and rolling the "r" like it was a double "rr" in Spanish. In the Greek word, "gyro," the "r" is NOT rolled. <sigh> The bigger the internet gets, the more misinformation we'll find. Anyway, its a sort of "soft guttural" Y-H pronunciation. But no one will misunderstand you if you simply say, "year-oh". Greeks are flexible and tolerant people! They put up with me when I lived there! '-)

                                                                      1. re: Caroline1
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                                                                        antimony RE: Caroline1 Jul 2, 2013 07:51 AM

                                                                        Yeah, I know how to make the correct sound -- I minored in classical Greek, which also has that sound. And I can flap-but-not-trill the R, as would at least be correct classically, but I don't expect people to have taken linguistics classes before ordering food. :)

                                                                        1. re: antimony
                                                                          Caroline1 RE: antimony Jul 2, 2013 08:55 AM

                                                                          It doesn't hurt to know this. It's not rocket science.

                                                                          And just for the record, I think the pronunciation is pretty close to the same in both koine and demotic Greek. For whatever that's worth.

                                                                          In any case, how you say it will have no impact on how good a well made gyro will taste. Except I never eat gyros. I only eat doner kababs. '-)

                                                                    2. re: pine time
                                                                      cowboyardee RE: pine time Jun 28, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                      As others have said, the Greek pronunciation is closest to yeer-oh.

                                                                      But... if you are in a town where everyone pronounces it like they'd pronounce 'gyroscope,' then 'jai-ro' IS a correct pronunciation.

                                                                      1. re: pine time
                                                                        p
                                                                        plasticanimal RE: pine time Jun 29, 2013 01:25 PM

                                                                        I was once castigated (in the friendly way Greeks like to yell at you) for my pronunciation of gyros (somewhere between year-os and yeed-os). He said that's a Greek word, and belongs in a Greek sentence. The English word is based on the Greek word, and is pronounced jai-ros. If I'm ordering in English, he said, it's jai-ros. I agree with him. Team brush-etta.

                                                                        1. re: plasticanimal
                                                                          Gastronomos RE: plasticanimal Jun 29, 2013 03:28 PM

                                                                          "...once castigated (in the friendly way Greeks like to yell at you)"

                                                                          :-)

                                                                          1. re: plasticanimal
                                                                            w
                                                                            Wawsanham RE: plasticanimal Jul 2, 2013 05:48 PM

                                                                            That makes a lot of linguistic sense. When a word is in a particular sentence, it makes sense to treat it as part if a phonetic whole, and not some bizarre alien "thing" that has to stick out. There's no reason to try to pronounce "greek" in an English sentence, and vice versa.

                                                                            1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                              girloftheworld RE: Wawsanham Jul 2, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                              Kind of like if you were doing a play that took place in France..you wouldn't have your actors speak with french accents because that would mean to the audience that they were speaking in English ...right?

                                                                              1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                                j
                                                                                jlhinwa RE: Wawsanham Jul 3, 2013 09:07 PM

                                                                                Makes sense to me too. We Americanize the names of the countries from which these wonderful words originate, so what's the big deal about Americanizing the pronunciation of specific words? I am not sure what the French people call themselves in French, but I am guessing it isn't "French." Or to better make my point using languages with which I am familiar, in Norway, food items are not "Norwegian _______," in Sweden, they aren't "Swedish ________," and in Denmark, they aren't "Danish _______." Instead they are "Norsk," "Svenska," and "Dansk."

                                                                                I find it kind of interesting that we completely ignore the way in which people of different countries refer to themself at the highest level and Americanize the name of every other people, as if our pronunciation and spelling is the most valid.

                                                                                1. re: jlhinwa
                                                                                  paulj RE: jlhinwa Jul 3, 2013 09:31 PM

                                                                                  We don't Americanize names and languages. Most of the names, such as German, Spanish, Swiss, are used by the English, and most other English speakers.

                                                                                  But then, most other languages do the same. In Spanish, English is Ingles, Germany is Alemania. They speak of Italiano, Frances, Griego. 'Barbarians' comes from an old Greek term for those that 'bar bar' - can't speak properly.

                                                                                  Many tribal names (American Indian) either mean, 'us the people', or 'them, the savages' - depending on who was first asked by Western explorers.

                                                                                  Most languages, and countries, are xenophobic (xenoos, Greek for 'foreigner').

                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                    j
                                                                                    jlhinwa RE: paulj Jul 5, 2013 02:14 PM

                                                                                    Point taken, we don't "Americanize" words, we Anglicize them. Either way, I am still amused that we spend so much effort on the correct pronunciation of specific food words from a country when we don't care about the rest of it. And I get that English-speaking people, including Americans, are not alone in this respect. Doesn't make it right. Barbarians, we all are.

                                                                                    1. re: jlhinwa
                                                                                      l
                                                                                      Leonardo RE: jlhinwa Jul 5, 2013 10:44 PM

                                                                                      I get the impression the English intentionally mispronounce French words.

                                                                                      1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                        Bill Hunt RE: Leonardo Jul 6, 2013 07:43 PM

                                                                                        I do not feel that way, at all.

                                                                                        As I travel to France, I attempt to make my pronunciations, as correct, as I can. However, my wife, who took French in high school and college, usually does a better job of it. That does not dissuade me from trying.

                                                                                        On our recent Burgundy trip, I spent much of the time having our guide pronounce some words, over and over, so that I could pick up the exact pronunciation - I improved, but was still imperfect - not by choice.

                                                                                        Remember, many French sounds do not exist correctly in English, so there can be a handicap, built in.

                                                                                        OTOH, my wife (from New Orleans, but with a Parisian grandfather) had to struggle, yet again, between French pronunciation, and Cajun, which she heard more often. Similar, but with some major differences.

                                                                                        Some Americans (US citizens) do try, but will likely never be perfect.

                                                                                        Hunt

                                                                                        1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                          h
                                                                                          Harters RE: Leonardo Jul 7, 2013 03:29 PM

                                                                                          What do you base that impression on, Leonardo?

                                                                                          Do you get the same impression that other Britons mispronounce French words or is it only folk from the English part of the UK?

                                                                                      2. re: paulj
                                                                                        l
                                                                                        lagatta RE: paulj Jul 8, 2013 03:25 PM

                                                                                        I'm glad you beat me to that one!

                                                                                        And French, English, Spanish, Portuguese and no doubt Dutch colonizers "misheard" Indigenous names in different ways.

                                                                                2. re: pine time
                                                                                  ChefJune RE: pine time Jul 5, 2013 12:17 PM

                                                                                  Marzipahn is the correct pronunciation. :)

                                                                                  1. re: pine time
                                                                                    m
                                                                                    miriamjo RE: pine time Jul 15, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                    they were all so off on that one, it made me cringe every time they said it. I say it as year-0h.

                                                                                  2. almond tree RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:07 AM

                                                                                    The correct pronunciation of Le Creuset has not been posted yet. It has the same short vowel sound as the "oeu" in hors d'oeuvres.
                                                                                    http://fr.forvo.com/word/le_creuset/

                                                                                    13 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: almond tree
                                                                                      Firegoat RE: almond tree Jun 27, 2013 09:11 AM

                                                                                      I hope I'm not the only one who sat here and ran both those word combinations over and over in my head just now.

                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                        almond tree RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                        Here's a pronunciation link for hors d'oeuvres:
                                                                                        http://fr.forvo.com/word/des_hors-d&#...

                                                                                        Wasn't there an episode of the Beverly Hillbillies years ago where Jed was planning to go to a French restaurant for some "or doovers"?

                                                                                        1. re: almond tree
                                                                                          Firegoat RE: almond tree Jun 27, 2013 09:51 AM

                                                                                          We call 'em Horse doobers down here.

                                                                                          1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                            almond tree RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:56 AM

                                                                                            hee hee

                                                                                            1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                              EWSflash RE: Firegoat Jun 29, 2013 04:03 PM

                                                                                              A friend invited us over via written invite for drinks and appetizers, and since he couldn't figure out how to spell hors d'oeuvres, he said to heck with it and spelled it 'whore's-dee-ovaries'. I still laugh when I think about it, and it's been thirty years!

                                                                                              1. re: EWSflash
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                                                                                                pine time RE: EWSflash Jun 30, 2013 06:56 AM

                                                                                                Your story reminded me of a h.s. friend (totally unrelated to food, sorry!): he wasn't real bright, and struggled mightily in Spanish class. We had a vocabulary test, and one word was Spanish for underwear. He wrote: "fruita de la looma." Teacher gave him some credit for creativity.

                                                                                            2. re: almond tree
                                                                                              Bob W RE: almond tree Jul 6, 2013 02:25 PM

                                                                                              Barney Rubble called them horse dovers.

                                                                                          2. re: almond tree
                                                                                            paulj RE: almond tree Jun 27, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                            Does knowing the correct pronunciation help when you ask a W&S associate for the latest fromage colored 6.73L rectangular pot?

                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                              almond tree RE: paulj Jun 27, 2013 09:25 AM

                                                                                              Huh? The topic of the thread is pronunciation.
                                                                                              In another context, of course I wouldn't mention it.
                                                                                              Just as when I was working as a hotel desk clerk and young honeymoon couple came in, confetti still in their hair. The groom asked for some cold "can-apes" to be sent to their room. The correct response? "Certainly, sir."

                                                                                            2. re: almond tree
                                                                                              juliejulez RE: almond tree Jun 27, 2013 09:48 AM

                                                                                              That may not be the best description for me. Up until adulthood I pronounced hors d'oeuvres as "Whores D'Ovors".

                                                                                              1. re: almond tree
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                                                                                                lagatta RE: almond tree Jun 28, 2013 03:05 AM

                                                                                                Yes, that was clearer than my explanation, almond tree. But I've often heard anglophones mispronounce that too. Nowadays there are a lot of pronunciation tools at wiktionary and other websites. That looks like a great one, thanks!

                                                                                                1. re: almond tree
                                                                                                  ChefJune RE: almond tree Jul 5, 2013 12:20 PM

                                                                                                  Actually, Le Creuset is pronounced with the last syllable -"set." As in Moet. and Perrier-Jouet. all the "et's" are pronounced, in defiance of the general rules of French.

                                                                                                  1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                    d
                                                                                                    DeppityDawg RE: ChefJune Jul 6, 2013 02:17 AM

                                                                                                    Actually, Le Creuset follows the general rule for the suffix "-et": the "t" is silent, as in "jouet", "filet", "ballet", etc. Moët and Jouët have a different spelling and pronunciation.

                                                                                                2. h
                                                                                                  Harters RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:31 AM

                                                                                                  I'll go with the OP's quinoa. Never in a month of Sundays would I have guessed correct pronounciation. Still havnt tasted it.

                                                                                                  I speak reasonable food/restaurant French and Spanish so am rarely phased by words in those languages. Then there are the food words that I see written but have never heard spoken, so have no real idea about how to pronounce them.

                                                                                                  Then again, maybe it's me that's right and others who are wrong. There's words in some forms of English that don't even exist in my form of English. And, then again, I eat tom-ar-toes, not tom-ay-toes.

                                                                                                  48 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: Harters
                                                                                                    Firegoat RE: Harters Jun 27, 2013 09:53 AM

                                                                                                    You can't imagine my shock when I heard it pronounced. Like you.. I just read it and applied what I thought was a reasonable pronunciation to it.

                                                                                                    1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                      d
                                                                                                      DeppityDawg RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                                                                      It's all those vowels… What do you think of "bresaola"?

                                                                                                      1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                        ttoommyy RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 11:01 AM

                                                                                                        What do you think of "bresaola"?

                                                                                                        In Italy, and by those "in the know" here in the US, I've heard it pretty much pronounced "bre-sow-la."

                                                                                                        1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                          d
                                                                                                          DeppityDawg RE: ttoommyy Jun 27, 2013 03:05 PM

                                                                                                          bre-zow-la, I would say, but I was thinking (along the lines of this thread) of people not living in Italy or otherwise in the know, who might have come across this product.

                                                                                                    2. re: Harters
                                                                                                      g
                                                                                                      gfr1111 RE: Harters Jun 27, 2013 04:59 PM

                                                                                                      Harters,

                                                                                                      I speak Spanish pretty well and was drilled so thoroughly in it that I pronounce most unfamiliar foreign words with a Spanish accent. Sometimes it's embarrassing, but most of the time, it works pretty well. If I read arabic lettered Japanese (e.g., "konichiwa Reiko," (ko-neechee-wah Ray-ko), it is understandable to Japanese. So I can read a menu in Japanese and not have a clue what I am saying, but Japanese people will understand me. On the other hand, this technique does not work at all with French . . . As far as I can tell, nothing works with French--except learning French.

                                                                                                      1. re: gfr1111
                                                                                                        paulj RE: gfr1111 Jun 27, 2013 08:08 PM

                                                                                                        Spanish never had a 'Great vowel shift'. So vowel sounds match the letters in the classic pattern. And linguists in devising new orthographies (such as for your Japanese example) followed that pattern. English, on the other hand, altered its vowels after the spelling was on its way toward standardization. French spelling probably has similar fossils.

                                                                                                      2. re: Harters
                                                                                                        l
                                                                                                        Lizard RE: Harters Jul 2, 2013 01:09 AM

                                                                                                        Harters, how do you pronounce 'paella' and 'chorizo'? Brits tend to have a standardised (mis)pronunciation of the two. Do you go for the Spanish pronunciation, or the British one?

                                                                                                        1. re: Lizard
                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                          Harters RE: Lizard Jul 7, 2013 03:39 PM

                                                                                                          Sorry, Lizard, I'm hopeless at writing phonetically so am not sure how to answer your question. I think I use a Spanish pronunciation but am never sure - much of my Spanish comes from visiting Mallorca and, in truth, sometimes I'm not sure whether the word I'm using is Castilian or Mallorcan. And, therefore, what the correct pronunciation is - it can differ. For example, a Castilian speaker may struggle to correctly pronounce my given name of John as the "J" is very different in that language - but a Mallorcan speaker would have no trouble at all. There's also particular differences in the use of the letter "L", where in Castilian it may silent but in Mallorcan it is pronounced - as in the island's capital of Palma de Mallorca. Most Brits would certainly pronounce it as a Castilian speaker would (say as Par-mah), but I pronounce it a a local would (as Pal - ma).

                                                                                                          I've no idea if my compatriots tend to mispronouce a word - but then I don't like to stereotype.

                                                                                                          1. re: Harters
                                                                                                            mariacarmen RE: Harters Jul 7, 2013 05:18 PM

                                                                                                            ooh now i'm confused Mr. H. Castillians as far as i know (i lived in Spain (albeit a long time ago) would also pronounce Palma as "pal-ma"...

                                                                                                          2. re: Lizard
                                                                                                            Googs RE: Lizard Jul 7, 2013 05:47 PM

                                                                                                            pie-AAY-ah
                                                                                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzngKu...

                                                                                                            cha-REE-zoh though I have a friend who insists its shaREESS
                                                                                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OB-M...

                                                                                                            1. re: Googs
                                                                                                              globocity RE: Googs Jul 7, 2013 09:40 PM

                                                                                                              Cho (not cha) ree zoo for the Mexican variety. The Spanish type is cho ree tho (voiceless "th).

                                                                                                              1. re: globocity
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                                                                                                                lagatta RE: globocity Jul 8, 2013 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                Globocity, wouldn't that depend on the origin of the speaker, not the type of chorizo? The (not excellent) Spanish I speak is mostly Argentine; I chose an Argentine teacher because the sounds are very close to Italian, which I speak fluently, and I have family there. But they wouldn't use the Spanish "th" (you are correct that this sound is not the typical th in English).

                                                                                                                1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                  mariacarmen RE: lagatta Jul 8, 2013 11:21 PM

                                                                                                                  you would only use it if you were a Spaniard in Spain, not depending on what kind of chorizo. (and according to Harters, you would not use it if in Mallorca.)

                                                                                                                  1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                    globocity RE: mariacarmen Jul 9, 2013 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                    mariacarmen,
                                                                                                                    For me, it is different than what you indicate.
                                                                                                                    Chorizo in Mexico is different than that in Spain and also differs in pronunciation. I grew up and learned Mexican Spanish (where there is no "th" for /s/ or /z/) however when referring to the Spanish meat, I pronounce it "cho ree thoh." But then again...I also use the Vosotros form so perhaps I am an outlier!

                                                                                                                    1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                      mariacarmen RE: globocity Jul 9, 2013 07:36 PM

                                                                                                                      Yes, chorizo is different in spain and in mexico, both deliTHioso in their own right, but a spaniard would call them both`choh-ree-tho' because that's how he says that letter. And that 'th' sound is like the 'th' sound in 'with' rather than, well, 'rather'. Or 'than'!

                                                                                                                      1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                        paulj RE: mariacarmen Jul 9, 2013 07:55 PM

                                                                                                                        "Speakers in northern and central Spain, including the variety prevalent on radio and television, have both /θ/ and /s/ (distinción). However, speakers in Latin America and some parts of southern Spain have only /s/ (seseo), and speakers in southernmost Spain have only [s̄] (a consonant similar to /θ/) and not /s/ (ceceo)"

                                                                                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_...

                                                                                                                        Most of the colonial trade with the Americas passed through southern ports like Seville.

                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                          maria lorraine RE: paulj Jul 9, 2013 08:42 PM

                                                                                                                          Can you clarify these symbols for the unknowing masses,
                                                                                                                          so that we may understand what it is you're saying?

                                                                                                                          /s/ (seseo)
                                                                                                                          [s̄] (a consonant similar to
                                                                                                                          /θ/) and not /s/ (ceceo)

                                                                                                                          If you would, use American words as examples of the sounds.

                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                            paulj RE: paulj Jul 9, 2013 10:26 PM

                                                                                                                            A larger discussion in Wiki article on 'Ceceo'

                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceceo

                                                                                                                            Areas that give 'z' a 'th' like sound pronounce casa "house" and caza "hunt" differently. In some parts of Spain, and most of Latin American they sound the same.

                                                                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye%C3%ADsmo
                                                                                                                            The pronunciation of 'll' (as in paella) is another major regional difference. In many areas 'll' and 'y' are pronounced the same. In a few others they remain distinct.

                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                              mariacarmen RE: paulj Jul 9, 2013 10:51 PM

                                                                                                                              it's not just the "z", but also the "c", as in, "Valentheea".

                                                                                                                              i used to think it was only Barthelona that did the "th" sound for "zs" and "cs" (I lived there once), but as you and others have mentioned, it's many parts of Spain that do the same, but not all. but no other parts of Latin America that i know of....

                                                                                                                              ok, just read some of that link. i get what you're saying. sort of. jeez (not to be confused with "heeth")... my brain gets fuzzy reading that.

                                                                                                                        2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                          s
                                                                                                                          sr44 RE: globocity Jul 10, 2013 05:55 PM

                                                                                                                          And there's Portuguese chorizo as well.

                                                                                                                          1. re: sr44
                                                                                                                            d
                                                                                                                            DeppityDawg RE: sr44 Jul 11, 2013 01:36 AM

                                                                                                                            That would be "chouriço", with still different pronunciations.

                                                                                                                            1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                              paulj RE: DeppityDawg Jul 11, 2013 05:12 AM

                                                                                                                              From the wiki article:
                                                                                                                              Asturian: chorizu [tʃoˈɾiθu];
                                                                                                                              Basque: txorizo [tʃoˈɾis̻o];
                                                                                                                              Galician: chourizo [tʃowˈɾiθo];
                                                                                                                              Portuguese: chouriço [ʃoˈɾisu];
                                                                                                                              Catalan: xoriço [ʃuˈɾisu]

                                                                                                                              1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                Bob W RE: DeppityDawg Jul 11, 2013 08:39 AM

                                                                                                                                In Rhode Island, people say "chaurice," and there are plenty of people who spell it that way.

                                                                                                                                I worked with a guy at a market in Providence who -- swear to god -- made a sign regarding a special on "bresuit." That's proscuitto. 8<D

                                                                                                                    2. re: Googs
                                                                                                                      mariacarmen RE: Googs Jul 7, 2013 10:56 PM

                                                                                                                      whoa, i'm sorry, that could not be more wrong. it's pah-ehl-yah. if you say it fast, it may sound SOMETHING like what the guy is saying. the "pa" sound in Spanish would never sound like "pie". "a" is always "ah" in Spanish - a short sound. the "ll" is not a "y", it's a combo of "l" and "y". i'm not berating you, it's just amazing to me how Spanish is taught to non-native speakers, as if they could not pronounce these very simple sounds.

                                                                                                                      and as for chorizo, there is no "ts" sound, as in "pizza. it's choh-ree-zoh, more like an "s" sound. and yes, as globocity says, in Spain the "z" is pronounced as a "th", as though you were lisping.

                                                                                                                      the people they're using to speak in those youtube segments aren't even native Spanish speakers. why would they do this to people trying to learn?

                                                                                                                      1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                        Googs RE: mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 12:48 AM

                                                                                                                        http://media.merriam-webster.com/soun... The shift from paw to yah makes it sound pie-ey

                                                                                                                        Pardon me, my phonetics were weird. show-ree-zoh

                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                          Harters RE: mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 08:14 AM

                                                                                                                          "in Spain the "z" is pronounced as a "th", as though you were lisping."

                                                                                                                          Although not in Mallorca, where I don't think they lisp, even when speaking Castilian. I guess it's all about regional accents.

                                                                                                                          I'm reasonably good with the LL - the brother in law's surname starts with LL and he comes from the town of Soller. Now, that town name is one rarely correctly pronounced by Britons visiting the island.

                                                                                                                          1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                            a
                                                                                                                            antimony RE: mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                            Might depend on where the speaker spelling it "pie" is from. There are several regional US accents where "pie" has a short a.

                                                                                                                            That's why there's IPA notation, but everyone has to know it.

                                                                                                                            1. re: antimony
                                                                                                                              s
                                                                                                                              sandylc RE: antimony Jul 8, 2013 11:06 AM

                                                                                                                              Ah, as in "eat muh pah".

                                                                                                                            2. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                              c
                                                                                                                              Cheez62 RE: mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 08:59 PM

                                                                                                                              Ah! Leave it to a Chowhound thread to finally help me understand the whole "Jose Maria Olazabal" thing!

                                                                                                                            3. re: Googs
                                                                                                                              paulj RE: Googs Jul 8, 2013 12:03 AM

                                                                                                                              Jose Andres demonstrating a paella

                                                                                                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psG-6u...

                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                maria lorraine RE: paulj Jul 8, 2013 01:16 AM

                                                                                                                                Paul, I'm not hearing Jose Andres well enough on this. He is speaking so quickly (and musically, BTW -- love him). At 6:55, Jose Andres says pah-AYY-yuh. (I think.)

                                                                                                                                So, I went over to Forvo, and there are a dozen speakers from Spain pronouncing "paella."

                                                                                                                                http://www.forvo.com/word/paella/#ca

                                                                                                                                Out of the twelve, only one speaker -- the second -- voices the tiniest "l" in the second syllable, something like an pah-AIL-yuh, and closer to what Mariacarmen is saying.

                                                                                                                                Wondered if that second pronunciation was regional, so I looked up the pronunciation of the Castilian double L and it's closer to what mariacarmen is saying.

                                                                                                                                Mariacarmen, Is the "EHL" or "AIL" middle syllable the palatalised Castilian Double L? (Sounds like a barely voiced L to Americans.)

                                                                                                                                Rather than the more popular "yeísta" pronunciation (pronouncing Double L as "Y") heard in Madrid and other big cities? That's what I'm sensing, but I'm not sure.

                                                                                                                                I know the first syllable is not PIE.
                                                                                                                                I've got both pah-AYY-yuh and pah-AYL-yuh. Soft L on the latter.

                                                                                                                                I make this dish fairly often (one of the single greatest party dishes ever), so I want to get it right.

                                                                                                                                1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                  paulj RE: maria lorraine Jul 8, 2013 08:52 AM

                                                                                                                                  The first to keep in mind is that Spanish vowels are not diphthongs, in contrast to most of the English long ones.

                                                                                                                                  So the first 'a' in 'paella' has the same quality as the last. The 'e' is like the first part of the English long 'a' ('ei').

                                                                                                                                  The 'll' has regional differences. In some parts of Latin America it is 'dj'. But I think the most common form is like the English 'l', but with the center of the tongue touching the roof of the mouth, not the tip (palatalized). But when spoken between vowels, it can end up sounding, to an English speaker', more like a 'y', a quasi-vowel. In other words, the contact with the roof of the mouth is looser than it would be by itself or at the beginning of a word (llama).

                                                                                                                                  Put these all together rapidly, the transition from one vowel to the next is smooth, 'a - e - y/l - a'

                                                                                                                                  (English long 'i' is a diphthong, 'ai', hence the temptation to describe the first syllable is 'pie'.)

                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine RE: paulj Jul 8, 2013 11:48 AM

                                                                                                                                    I want to learn how a Valencian old-timer says paella. That would be the most authentic because the dish is Valencian.

                                                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencian

                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                      paulj RE: maria lorraine Jul 8, 2013 12:22 PM

                                                                                                                                      In Latin America I've seen a paella like dish referred to as Arroz Valenciana (or a la Valenciana)

                                                                                                                                      1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                        d
                                                                                                                                        DeppityDawg RE: maria lorraine Jul 8, 2013 01:29 PM

                                                                                                                                        I think this particular word sounds pretty similar in Valencian and in Castilian. So you won't be able to slip it into a conversation in English and hope that the other person says "Wow, I'm impressed you know the Valencian pronunciation!"

                                                                                                                                        But you might try it with "caçolet" or "boulhabaisso" or "xocolātl"…

                                                                                                                                      2. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen RE: paulj Jul 8, 2013 03:17 PM

                                                                                                                                        paulj, you are correct, no diphthongs. But no, the 'e' in paella is NOT like the English long 'a' - or ever. It is always "eh". It is always like the first 'e' in elephant. as i said earlier, it's not "buay-nohs" dias, it's "bueh-nohs" dias, tho Americans (and maybe others) are not taught this. The vowels in Spanish always have the same sound. When combined with other letters, though there are no diphthongs, and spoken rapidly, they may sound like they are creating a diphthong. But the correct way to say a vowel is to enunciate it as it always sounds: ah (a), eh (e), ee (i), oh (o) (and this is not the English long 'o' but more like the first 'o' in forgot) and ooh (u). these are short sounds.

                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine, pah-EHL-yuh is the closest i can get to it. The 'l' sound should always be there, even if it is barely discernible.

                                                                                                                                        I'm sorry I don't know enough about phonetics to explain myself better.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                          paulj RE: mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                                          Where do you get all these 'h's?

                                                                                                                                          When I say the letter 'a', I say start with a sound that is close to the Spanish 'e', and transition to the Spanish 'i'.

                                                                                                                                          " Note that what in English are called "long vowels", A, E, I, O, U, are in the IPA transcribed with two letters apiece: /eɪ/, /iː/, /aɪ/, /oʊ/, and /juː/."
                                                                                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA...

                                                                                                                                          I don't think we differ in how the Spanish should sound, but in how to describe this to English speakers.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                            mariacarmen RE: paulj Jul 8, 2013 11:31 PM

                                                                                                                                            i'm very confused. are you trying to teach Spanish speakers how to say the English long 'a'? if so, then yes, "ei" is how you would do that. and the reason you would do that is because 'e' is 'eh' in Spanish, and 'i' is ee in Spanish, and when you have them next to each other, and save them fast, they sound like the English long 'a'. eh-ee. say it fast, it sounds like the long 'a'.

                                                                                                                                            but the letter 'a' in SPANISH always sounds as if you're saying "ahh", only very shortly. in any word. AH. like the reverse of HA. the letter 'a' in Spanish will always sound like this. it will never sound like a long A in English.

                                                                                                                                            i do think we're going in circles!

                                                                                                                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                              maria lorraine RE: mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 11:42 PM

                                                                                                                                              Pronunciations in Spanish for paella do little good, when the word is Valencian, and not Spanish or even Catalan.

                                                                                                                                              Valencia and Catalonia/Catalunya have had a looooong conflict, and Valencia stands by its separateness and sovereignty. Valencia has its own language/dialect, with its own pronunciation. Some Valencian pronunciations are the same as Catalan, but there is also a good deal of difference. Northern Valencian is closer to Catalan, while Southern Valencian is more its own separate animal (to split the hair even finer).

                                                                                                                                              Best as I can surmise, after reading about the Valencian language and watching a few videos, the Double L in paella sounds like the Double L in "million." Or, a short "l" sound followed by a "y."

                                                                                                                                              Where are the native Valencians to weigh in??

                                                                                                                                              1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg RE: maria lorraine Jul 9, 2013 12:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                The Diccionari català-valencià-balear from the IEC gives "paéʎa" as the Valencian pronunciation. In other words, the same as in lleísta Spanish.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                  maria lorraine RE: DeppityDawg Jul 9, 2013 12:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                  But the Valencian-only language websites (I've checked about six of them) say the "million" pronunciation. The Valencian pronunciation is different, I'm telling ya.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                    mariacarmen RE: maria lorraine Jul 9, 2013 12:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                    the "million" pronunciation is the way to say the "ll" in Spanish.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                      d
                                                                                                                                                      DeppityDawg RE: maria lorraine Jul 9, 2013 01:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                      "paéʎa" _is_ the "million" pronunciation. "ʎ" represents an alveolo-palatal lateral approximant.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine RE: DeppityDawg Jul 9, 2013 01:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Well, as long as it's an alveolo-palatal lateral approximant.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                          d
                                                                                                                                                          DeppityDawg RE: maria lorraine Jul 9, 2013 02:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                          Yup. Everyone always thinks that the key to an authentic paella is the saffron, but it's really all about where you put your tongue.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                            h
                                                                                                                                                            Harters RE: maria lorraine Jul 11, 2013 09:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                            "alveolo-palatal lateral approximant."

                                                                                                                                                            That's easy for you to say.

                                                                                                                                      3. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                        l
                                                                                                                                        Lizard RE: Googs Jul 8, 2013 06:35 AM

                                                                                                                                        Googs, why are you telling me how they are pronounced? My question was directed to Harters, mostly because everyone in these parts says 'Choritso' (as if spelled Chorizzo) and pai-ella-- with the 'ells' pronounced.
                                                                                                                                        And yes, this is a generalisation based on the number of cookery programmes (especially 'Come Dine with Me') and living here.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Lizard
                                                                                                                                          Googs RE: Lizard Jul 8, 2013 08:59 PM

                                                                                                                                          Sorry, I thought it was an open question. I can see how your location would be key.

                                                                                                                                  2. t
                                                                                                                                    treb RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                                                                                                    Once had a friend call Merlot, MER LOT! Also Charcuterie is a good one. Ten there's Amuse Bush!

                                                                                                                                    19 Replies
                                                                                                                                    1. re: treb
                                                                                                                                      girloftheworld RE: treb Jun 27, 2013 12:57 PM

                                                                                                                                      "Charcuterie"

                                                                                                                                      I cant get this one...

                                                                                                                                      1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                        j
                                                                                                                                        Jerseygirl111 RE: girloftheworld Jun 27, 2013 10:51 PM

                                                                                                                                        I practiced this before I went to the restaurant that I planned on ordering it. I say Shar-koo-tree.

                                                                                                                                        Sadly I still say en-dive instead of ahn-deeve. Also sher-bert instead of sher-bet as others have mentioned.

                                                                                                                                        I have no idea how to pronounce Char siu...Shar zoo?

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                          girloftheworld RE: Jerseygirl111 Jun 28, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                          Thank you! Shar- Koo -tree! seeing it like that makes it so clear.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                            m
                                                                                                                                            Mag454 RE: Jerseygirl111 Jul 1, 2013 07:44 PM

                                                                                                                                            its char like char the meat or charlie and sue like the person. at least thats how we pronounce it here in hawaii where we eat char siu pretty regularly!

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Mag454
                                                                                                                                              j
                                                                                                                                              Jerseygirl111 RE: Mag454 Jul 1, 2013 11:41 PM

                                                                                                                                              Thank you for responding. I had given up on getting an answer!
                                                                                                                                              Char-sue. I'll be there in one year to try your Char siu!

                                                                                                                                            2. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                              cowboyardee RE: Jerseygirl111 Jul 7, 2013 06:00 PM

                                                                                                                                              I could be wrong, but I believe "shar-koo-tuh-ree" is the more common anglicized pronunciation. "Shar-koo-tree" is more similar to the French pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: cowboyardee
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                                                                                                                                                lagatta RE: cowboyardee Jul 8, 2013 03:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                But the u in French is not at all the same sound as the English oo. Forvo has a Canadian speaker: http://fr.forvo.com/word/charcuterie/ French speakers would be even more rapid. Remember, you have to purse your lips - make a kissy mouth.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                  cowboyardee RE: lagatta Jul 8, 2013 06:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                  "shar-koo-tree" is admittedly a pretty rough translation of French pronunciation. Not even sure how I would spell out the French syllables (I studied French once - my pronunciation is passable at best).

                                                                                                                                                  But that's kind of the point. "Shar-KOO-tuh-ree" without any French accent is the most common anglicized pronunciation that I've heard. "Shar-ku-tree" with French pronunciation is how French speakers would say the word. "Shar-koo-tree" with English pronunciation... is not really anything. It might be regionally acceptable or preferred, I guess. My point was just that there's seldom a reason to mimic French pronunciation of a word that's been anglicized when conversing in English.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                    mtlcowgirl RE: cowboyardee Jul 29, 2013 09:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                    How about avoiding the trouble and using the English term: cold cuts? ;)

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mtlcowgirl
                                                                                                                                                      girloftheworld RE: mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 05:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                      there is a marked difference between the two

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mtlcowgirl
                                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine RE: mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 06:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                        Charcuterie involves many more items, and presumably of a different style, than cold cuts.

                                                                                                                                                        <<"Shar-ku-tree" with French pronunciation is how French speakers would say the word.>>

                                                                                                                                                        My sense is that you're not hearing the two final syllables ("təh-ree") that are there, because they're being said quickly.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                          d
                                                                                                                                                          DeppityDawg RE: maria lorraine Jul 29, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                          The standard French pronunciation only has three syllables: [ʃaʀkytʀi] (pretty much the way cowboyardee described it).

                                                                                                                                                          http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/cha...

                                                                                                                                            3. re: treb
                                                                                                                                              globocity RE: treb Jun 28, 2013 06:32 PM

                                                                                                                                              I've heard "Riesling" pronounced as "RYEzling".

                                                                                                                                              1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                linguafood RE: globocity Jun 29, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                Well, anglophones seem to have a problem with the whole "ie" vs. "ei" sounds in German words.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                  Caroline1 RE: linguafood Jul 2, 2013 07:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                  There'd a simple rule that takes all of the guess work out of the German ie and ei combinations. It is ALWAYS the second letter of the combination that is pronounced like that letter is pronounced when reciting the English alphabet. Therefore "ie" is pronounced "eeee," and "ei" is pronounced "eye". Hope this helps. '-)

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Caroline1
                                                                                                                                                    linguafood RE: Caroline1 Jul 2, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                    Interesting concept.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                      Caroline1 RE: linguafood Jul 3, 2013 12:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Its wut I wuz taut in collidge... '-)

                                                                                                                                                2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                  ChefJune RE: globocity Jul 5, 2013 12:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                  nada. Rees-ling.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                    Bill Hunt RE: ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 07:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                    That is very, very close to the pronunciations by those, producing the Riesling wines in GR. Now, there are tiny "local" variations, but not something that most would pick up.

                                                                                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                                                                              2. Heidi cooks and bakes RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                After my trip to Key West, I regaled my sister with my food stories. I told her that I had tried fried conch. Which I pronounced with a hard "ch". She told me it's pronounced like "konk". She's my younger sister...I don't know if I believe her or not! But it's another food I decided I don't have to order again!

                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                1. re: Heidi cooks and bakes
                                                                                                                                                  Googs RE: Heidi cooks and bakes Jun 28, 2013 09:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                  Its worth knowing how to say it so you can order conch fritters. And yes it's "conk" like the sound of a blow to the head.

                                                                                                                                                2. monavano RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 10:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                  My brother once ordered steak with a shit take mushroom sauce.

                                                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: monavano
                                                                                                                                                    pinehurst RE: monavano Jun 27, 2013 11:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                    Ding Ding Ding!
                                                                                                                                                    Winner!!!

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: monavano
                                                                                                                                                      Karl S RE: monavano Jun 28, 2013 09:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                      Catherine Tate's immortal sketch on this (IIRC, the characters are striving folk from the Midlands):

                                                                                                                                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Karl S
                                                                                                                                                        monavano RE: Karl S Jun 28, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Oh wow, thank you for this! I love Catherine Tate from The Office and this was so funny.

                                                                                                                                                    2. Gastronomos RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 11:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                      anything French , on purpose

                                                                                                                                                      1. mrbigshotno.1 RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 11:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                        Shallots, shaw-lot not shalets. Mozzerella, mot sa rella, no muse a rel. Tamal, if it's one it's a tamal, two or more, tamales. Alcoholic, no I'm a drunkard (just kidding).

                                                                                                                                                        6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mrbigshotno.1
                                                                                                                                                          pinehurst RE: mrbigshotno.1 Jun 27, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                          Oof, I have to say that I do the shalets thing.
                                                                                                                                                          (slinks away).

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: pinehurst
                                                                                                                                                            monavano RE: pinehurst Jun 27, 2013 11:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                            me too

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: pinehurst
                                                                                                                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: pinehurst Jun 28, 2013 03:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                              Ooh, I was feeling pretty good about myself until I got to "shaw-lot." *hangs head in shame* And I do use "tamale" as the singular.

                                                                                                                                                              There are honest mispronunciations and then there are affectations. For example, I hate it when people on Top Chef say "Swis-shard" instead of "Swiss chard" -- apparently what they are doing is copying the way French chefs pronounce the English name. Eric Ripert gets to say "Swis-shard" but Tom Colicchio doesn't!

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
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                                                                                                                                                                lagatta RE: Ruth Lafler Jun 28, 2013 06:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                And of course it isn't the name in French... Also, many vegetables have extremely regional names. It has MANY names in English, French, Italian and no doubt countless other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_c...

                                                                                                                                                                Bietola in Italian, at least in many regions, but there are no doubt other names.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                  mbfant RE: lagatta Jun 29, 2013 05:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, bieta, bieda, and, around Parma, erbetta. Here in Rome erbetta is parsley (= prezzemolo).

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                  ChefJune RE: Ruth Lafler Jul 5, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  In French, Swiss Chard would be "blettes." :)

                                                                                                                                                            2. ttoommyy RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 12:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                              I don't do this, but I have people pronounce the word "soy" as "so-ee." is that correct? I always thought it rhymed with "boy."

                                                                                                                                                              5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                EWSflash RE: ttoommyy Jun 29, 2013 04:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                I think "so-ee" is from the Southeastern U.S., at least according to Alton Brown it is.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EWSflash
                                                                                                                                                                  s
                                                                                                                                                                  sandylc RE: EWSflash Jul 1, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  For seeming like such a picky guy, Alton can sure mangle some words.

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                  ChefJune RE: ttoommyy Jul 5, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Soy rhymes with Boy. Even in the Southeast.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                    j
                                                                                                                                                                    Jeri L RE: ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 10:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    I think some regional dialects vary. I've seen it spelled in old cookbooks as "soya" and that's sort of how my Midwestern Grandparents said it. See above for "not correct but valid" arguments.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Jeri L
                                                                                                                                                                      paulj RE: Jeri L Jul 5, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      soya is a common UK spelling.

                                                                                                                                                                3. ItalGreyHound RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Sherbet. I am well aware that there is no second "r" but it will always be "rainbow sher-BERT" to me.

                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ItalGreyHound
                                                                                                                                                                    Terrie H. RE: ItalGreyHound Jun 27, 2013 01:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    I know that it's supposed to be SHERBET, but I've never heard anyone in my entire life pronouce it other that sherbert.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Terrie H.
                                                                                                                                                                      ItalGreyHound RE: Terrie H. Jun 27, 2013 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      I know! Me neither. Even my mom, who was an English teacher, used to say sherBERT, and then laugh and say, "I know it's wrong, but I can't pronounce it any other way!"

                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: ItalGreyHound
                                                                                                                                                                      fldhkybnva RE: ItalGreyHound Jun 27, 2013 08:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      SherBERT for life.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: fldhkybnva
                                                                                                                                                                        ItalGreyHound RE: fldhkybnva Jun 28, 2013 07:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        Sing it, sister :)

                                                                                                                                                                        And, I just realized that my response to Terrie is very past-tense, like my mom is no longer with us. Happily, she very much is, and is still pronouncing it "bert!"

                                                                                                                                                                    3. girloftheworld RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 01:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      crepe
                                                                                                                                                                      Gruyère
                                                                                                                                                                      gnochi

                                                                                                                                                                      1. f
                                                                                                                                                                        ferventfoodie RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 02:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        The whole "gyro" thing on Chopped the other night drove me
                                                                                                                                                                        nuts, too.

                                                                                                                                                                        When I was much younger, I was guilty of the "marscapone"
                                                                                                                                                                        mistake - and I grew up in northeast NJ. Amazed I wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                        called on it much earlier!

                                                                                                                                                                        Still not sure about Viognier.

                                                                                                                                                                        12 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                          paulj RE: ferventfoodie Jun 27, 2013 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Did you say 'marscapone' because you misread the word, or because everyone around you was saying it that way? I haven't figured out where the 'mar...' form came from, but apparently it is quite common, both in the USA and the UK.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                            f
                                                                                                                                                                            ferventfoodie RE: paulj Jun 27, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            Not really sure because I started "pronouncing" it long
                                                                                                                                                                            before I started cooking with it. We never had it in our
                                                                                                                                                                            house because my dad disliked any thing that resembled
                                                                                                                                                                            cheese so I didn't misread it there but might have seen
                                                                                                                                                                            it on a menu. I'm assuming I picked up from other
                                                                                                                                                                            people saying it but I might have misheard - although I
                                                                                                                                                                            still hear it mispronounced.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                              paulj RE: ferventfoodie Jun 27, 2013 04:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              The Splendid Table, 1992, p211

                                                                                                                                                                              "Rice of the Princes
                                                                                                                                                                              ...
                                                                                                                                                                              ... this rice, with its nuts and spice, is served on a bed of roasted greens and topped with marscapone [sic]. ... Dolloping a little mascarpone on each serving ..."

                                                                                                                                                                              Interesting that even in a book on Italian cooking, the 'mar' spelling sneaks its way past the author and editors.

                                                                                                                                                                              I found this doing a Google ngram search on 'marscapone'. The 'mar' spelling is clearly in a minority in published items, still it does persist (from 1980 on).

                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                            512window RE: ferventfoodie Jun 27, 2013 04:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            My brother has a friend who's a wine maker. He was lamenting the fact that no one will purchase Viognier, because everyone is embarassed about the pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                            We advocated marketing it as "Vogner".

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                              linguafood RE: 512window Jun 27, 2013 04:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              It's so easy. Veeon-yay.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg RE: 512window Jun 27, 2013 04:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                I don't think the "vio" is the problem, it's the "gn" part… If you really have to adjust the spelling to accommodate the least French-savvy clients (while still staying approximately faithful to the original name), I would have suggested "Vionier".

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 05:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah, your suggestion is better, I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                    j
                                                                                                                                                                                    Jeri L RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 09:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    Exactly. English-speaking brain transposes the "gn" and thinks, "vinegar?" (Or maybe that's just me...)

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                      l
                                                                                                                                                                                      lagatta RE: DeppityDawg Jun 28, 2013 03:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, the gn is a sound that simply doesn't exist in English, idem the "cu" in charcuterie.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Offhand, i'd say the gn is a bit like the English "nya nya" sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                                      Googs RE: 512window Jun 28, 2013 09:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icF4Pj...

                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                      ChefJune RE: ferventfoodie Jul 5, 2013 12:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      Viognier = veeown YAY

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                        Bob W RE: ChefJune Jul 9, 2013 05:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Yeppers -- Viognier does very well here in Virginia so we know how to pronounce it. Very nice grape.

                                                                                                                                                                                    4. cookie monster RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 03:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      My biggest challenges are wines - gruner veltliner, viognier, gewurztraminer . . . and then there are the Hungarian and Greek ones where I don't even try . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                      45 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                        AmyH RE: cookie monster Jun 27, 2013 04:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        A colleague who is quite proficient in both German and wines told me that gewürztraminer is pronounced ge-wurs-TRA-min-er

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood RE: AmyH Jun 27, 2013 04:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually, the emphasis is on the second syllable.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                            cookie monster RE: linguafood Jun 27, 2013 04:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thta's what I thought. But i still usually mumble it in case I'm wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                              linguafood RE: cookie monster Jun 27, 2013 04:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, those umlaute are difficult for most non-native speakers. And never mind trying to figure out where the emphasis goes on any of those looooong German words '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                              AmyH RE: linguafood Jun 27, 2013 05:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              He would say otherwise.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg RE: AmyH Jun 27, 2013 05:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                If he really told you to say "ge-wurs-TRA-min-er", then _you_ can tell _him_ otherwise. As linguafood said, the primary stress is on the second syllable: guh-WUERTS-tra-mi-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 05:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Danke. As a native speaker, I feel fairly proficient in my mother tongue '-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                    d
                                                                                                                                                                                                    DeppityDawg RE: linguafood Jun 27, 2013 06:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not sure if I am supposed to apologize now, for saying something about German in a thread where a native German speaker was already active, so just in case: Sorry. If it helps (me), I was replying to AmyH, not to you. Fortunately, we seem to be in agreement, no? I will respectfully yield the rest of this sub-thread entirely to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood RE: DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 10:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Oh, yea, I was totally agreeing with you. I know your reply was aimed at AmyH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      No pasa nada, DD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      mbfant RE: linguafood Jun 27, 2013 10:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then perhaps you will settle this once and for all. The main stress of the word is clearly on the second syllable, but what about the secondary stress? I always had it in my head that it was TRA-min-er, but here in Italy it is tra-MI-ner. I think I looked it up once and found the Italians were right, but the doubt lingers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----
                                                                                                                                                                                                      This was for Linguafood. Sometimes the replies go where you want them, sometimes they don't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood RE: mbfant Jun 27, 2013 10:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, you are correct, the second stress is on the MI.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        geWÜRZtraMINer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I realize this is, indeed, not the easiest word in the world to pronounce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Googs RE: linguafood Jun 28, 2013 09:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Think "ach du lieber".

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                      AmyH RE: DeppityDawg Jun 28, 2013 01:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You are absolutely right and I'm sorry that I was misinformed. Please add gewürztraminer to the list of words I pronounce incorrectly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                    LindaWhit RE: linguafood Jun 27, 2013 07:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Don't you mean the second sy-LAH-bul? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      l
                                                                                                                                                                                                      lagatta RE: linguafood Jun 28, 2013 03:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      and of course the w is pronounced like a v...

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ruth Lafler RE: lagatta Jun 28, 2013 03:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Right. It's actually closer to Ge-VERTS-tra-ME-ner (since the "w" is pronounced like a "v" and the "i" is pronounced like a long "e" and giving up on trying to capture the ü sound in English).

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                          w
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wawsanham RE: Ruth Lafler Jul 2, 2013 05:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually, the Ü is the equivalent of English "ee" with the lips rounded. Voilà, the "Ü" sound will come out if you do this. So it is more of a Ge-VEERTS-truh-meen-air

                                                                                                                                                                                                          As an aside, there are German dialects that pronounce the Ü as "ee" unrounded. But, it is not the standard pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                                                                                                                                                            maria lorraine RE: Wawsanham Jul 2, 2013 06:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just like the "gn" sound in Viognier, talked about upthread, "Ü" is also difficult to write phonetically.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            EER, even rounded, doesn't quite get it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Might be too difficult to write or describe; one must probably hear it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                                                                                                                                                              JungMann RE: Wawsanham Jul 3, 2013 06:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Actually the word gewürz takes a short ü. The rounded "ee" is a good description of how to pronounce long ü, whereas the short version of the vowel is closer to a rounded "ih." And as you point out an Austrian might pronounce it closer to an "ee" unrounded.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              As long as someone is not pronouncing it "Hey drunkie!" I'm not terribly particular about how its spoken to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Jeri L RE: JungMann Jul 5, 2013 10:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Asking for "Gevurts" makes you sound like you know all about it and are just too cool to pronounce all those syllables.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Jeri L
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  JungMann RE: Jeri L Jul 6, 2013 10:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I agree with you. Calling it Gewuerz strikes my ears as cutesy much like people who order "margs" at happy hour. But be that as it may, Gewuerztraminer is a compound word and the first word, Gewuerz, has a short vowel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood RE: JungMann Jul 6, 2013 02:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You might also get some funny looks ordering "gewürz", which means spice in German. Context would help, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                          AmyH RE: linguafood Jun 29, 2013 09:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I asked my German friend who lives in the Allgau (sorry I don't know how to put umlauts in comments) region about the pronunciation and why my colleague would have told me the emphasis is in the third syllable. She said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "The pronounciation of Gewurztraminer may vary according to different regions. In Northern Italy (South Tyrolia) emphasize might be on the 3.sillable."

                                                                                                                                                                                                          So perhaps it depends on where you heard the word first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood RE: AmyH Jun 29, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Perhaps. There are many regional dialects in Germany, and Bavarian in particular is so different from most other dialects I wouldn't even try to guess how these particular folks pronounce anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            That said, the common pronounciation in "high" German is as I've pointed out upthread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                              l
                                                                                                                                                                                                              lagatta RE: linguafood Jun 29, 2013 02:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Obviously the Südtirol dialect would be closer to Bavarian than anything else spoken in Germany, but even more particular, given its geographical location and political status. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairisch... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCd...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              They sure make some lovely wines!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood RE: lagatta Jun 29, 2013 02:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Boy do I miss me some good, affordable German/Austrian white wines over here..... ah, next year.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                maria lorraine RE: linguafood Jun 30, 2013 02:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I most often hear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Guh-VUHRZ (tiny pause) TRAH-mih-ner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                when I'm in Germany, Austria and the Sud-Tirol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Traminer (TRAH-mih-ner)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                is an often-used word all by itself, so its pronunciation wouldn't change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                to truh-MEE-ner simply because an adjective -- Gewurz --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                is placed in front of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Traminer refers to a family of wine grapes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                and in this family are several traminer grapes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                There's White Traminer, Red Traminer, and Spicy Traminer,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                (Gewurz Traminer). An adjective modifying a noun in each case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                So when people say Gewurz Traminer, they are simply specifying which type of Traminer they mean (white, red or spicy, just like specifying Red or White Zinfandel).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                You pronounce Gewurztraminer like two separate words, with a tiny pause in-between Gewurz and Traminer. Each word has its own emphasis: the second syllable of Gewurz; the first syllable of Traminer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Geh-VUHRZ (tiny pause)TRAH-mih-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Because TRAH-mih-ner is a separate established word, this sounds incorrect to me:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Geh-VUHRZ truh-MEE-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood RE: maria lorraine Jun 30, 2013 03:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, just goes to show that there isn't *always* just one way to pronounce things "correctly". It is subject to regional dialects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've only heard it pronounced GeWÜRZtraMIner. So what. As long as they bring me the wine I ordered, I honestly couldn't care less.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine RE: linguafood Jul 1, 2013 12:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just to be equal-handed, listen to these pronunciations of Gewurztraminer:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.forvo.com/word/gew%C3%BCrz...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood RE: maria lorraine Jul 1, 2013 09:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Right. Which is exactly how I pronounce it, and how I have heard it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        INDIANRIVERFL RE: linguafood Jul 1, 2013 11:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a feeling that the lack of Trockenbeerenauslese wines in the US is due as much to the difficulty in pronunciation as it is to it's rarity in general.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          eatzalot RE: INDIANRIVERFL Jul 29, 2013 11:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Trockenbeerenauslese (TBA)-weight German wines at least ARE inherently rare, an exotic niche wine class -- so likely uncommon under any name.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          However, I have seen serious wine writers advance this same point over the international marketing difficulty of some Burgundian wine village names, even though the wines are much more mainstream on their home soil than TBA wines are on theirs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Auxey-Duresses and Pernand-Vergelesses, to name a couple. It being an old-world wine region, the wines are identified mainly by these place names of course (not by grape type), and the name itself can be a mouthful for foreigners.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A friend did once report great difficulty getting a large US wine shop, over the phone, to check their stock of a Karthäuserhof Eitelsbacher Karthäuserhofberg spätlese #45 (AP 10-02).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          JungMann RE: linguafood Jul 1, 2013 12:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now that we've exhausted Gewürtztraminer, perhaps we can graduate onto the pronunciation of Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood RE: JungMann Jul 1, 2013 12:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            No problem :-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ruth Lafler RE: JungMann Jul 1, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              German is actually pretty easy to pronounce once you understand the rules, since the pronunciation is much more regular than English. In this case, it's all about figuring out where the breaks are, since this is just a bunch of words strung together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Rind/fleisch/etikettierungs/über/wachungs/aufgaben/über/tragungs/gesetz

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                INDIANRIVERFL RE: Ruth Lafler Jul 1, 2013 01:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Take pity on me. My German teacher of 3 years in Gymnasium was from Vienna. I lived in an area of Bavaria that had a lot of Hebrew in the dialect. The Star of David is still on the local beer. While living 5 years in Hesse, my Prussian landlord and Wurttemburger landlady would argue between themselves on the proper pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While my glottals and rolling rrrs received praise in Hesse, it leaves my immigrant friends from South Africa screaming with laughter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mtlcowgirl RE: Ruth Lafler Jul 29, 2013 09:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gesundheit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                maria lorraine RE: linguafood Jul 1, 2013 05:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After reading jjw's post below, I checked the pronunciation at another site, and it is (more clearly) the pronunciation I'm trying to describe:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://howjsay.com/index.php?word=gew...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                geh-WUHRZ-TRAH-mee-ner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood RE: maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'd take that pronunciation more seriously if that man were a native German or even Austrian speaker. He is clearly anglophone, so it's not the greatest examples.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The other links you posted were spot on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine RE: linguafood Jul 2, 2013 03:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Independent of the nationality of the person who is doing the pronunciation at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://howjsay.com/index.php?word=gew...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it is the closest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -- with an accent also on the TRAH of Traminer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    instead of on the MEE --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to the way the word is actually said by people in the wine industry in Germany, Austria and the Sud-Tirol/Alto Adige.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The pronunciation at the other two links is different from what you actually hear when the wine is being discussed where it's grown. I'm telling ya.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Caroline1 RE: AmyH Jul 2, 2013 07:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Should be "gevurtz..." A "w" in German is a "v" in English. And a "v" in German is like an "f" in English. The list goes on.... Here's a quick guide:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.germanlearnteach.com/pro.aspx

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ChefJune RE: cookie monster Jul 5, 2013 12:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gruner Veltliner is pronounced pretty much the way it looks, except the "liner" part is "leener."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bill Hunt RE: ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Again, just what I hear in Austria, from most of the producers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jeri L RE: Bill Hunt Jul 5, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I heard some marketing trying to get people to ask for "gru-v" (groovie), again...if you can't pronounce it, shorten it to a nickname and pretend you're too cool for the whole name!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        eatzalot RE: ChefJune Jul 10, 2013 11:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ChefJune: 'Gruner Veltliner is pronounced pretty much the way it looks, except the "liner" part is "leener."'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And also except that the U is nasalated, a sound not normally used in English. (The word is written "Gruener" in the absence of an umlaut mark.) Not that an English long U sound would be misunderstood...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When I got to know and love that wine in Austria in the 1980s, and later visits, I came away with a slight pronunciation error, only corrected later by people in the Austrian wine biz. Was accustomed to hearing many people around Vienna ordering it in wine bars or restaurants, and I wrongly stressed the 1st syllable of Veltliner. As they pointed out, the usual pronunc. in Austria stresses, albeit mildly, the second syllable (for the Valtellina region the grape is named for).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is nothing to the problems of English speakers attempting some Dutch words. The first time I ignorantly repeated my international pronunciation of Gouda cheese as "GOO-da" while in the Netherlands, it brought guffaws and a summoning of others who "must hear this." They use a soft G (known generically as a strongly-aspirated H, as in Omar Hayyam etc.) and the ou vowel is like English "OW."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Back in the US, this came up over the famous painter's name (van) Gogh, which properly sounds like a protracted cough -- to which a friend (a distinguished comparative-literatures scholar) proclaimed that it's unreasonable to expect native English speakers to accurately render that Dutch name "if they're in good health."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Samalicious RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 04:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I had a boss who could not just order the vegetable tray and dip for working lunches, it had to be crudités...except she pronounced it crew-dites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Samalicious
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Firegoat RE: Samalicious Jun 27, 2013 07:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Should have called it crew-bites! Food for the crew!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BuildingMyBento RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 04:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When I'm in China and craving fried mantou, I usually have to whip out a pencil nub to write the character for fried. There seem to be a couple of ways to say "fried" regarding mantou, We've got 炸+馒头 (zha "fried"...or "explode" mantou), and also 金色+馒头 (jinse "gold color" mantou) and I've heard 金+馒头 (jin "gold" mantou) too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If I screw up, well, I can't stand the steamed version (with condensed milk, that is), so it's good to try to know every way to say/read it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jonathan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://buildingmybento.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://collaterallettuce.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: BuildingMyBento
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          d
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          DeppityDawg RE: BuildingMyBento Jun 27, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you order 炸馒头, I can't imagine that anyone would serve you steamed mantou (except by "mistake").

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. globocity RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gewürztraminer and Worcestershire

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          16 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            applgrl RE: globocity Jul 7, 2013 08:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Had an English co-worker who shortened it to "worst-er". Been grateful to her ever since!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: applgrl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj RE: applgrl Jul 7, 2013 09:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Spanish speakers have taken the easy way out. They call it 'salsa inglesa', English sauce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.directoalpaladar.com/ingre...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: applgrl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                globocity RE: applgrl Jul 7, 2013 09:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I like that! Thank you for the shortcut.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Googs RE: globocity Jul 8, 2013 12:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                wus-ter-sure

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  grayelf RE: Googs Jul 8, 2013 06:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My English rellies lose the sure part -- just Wooster.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Googs RE: grayelf Jul 8, 2013 08:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just say wus-ter myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Harters RE: Googs Jul 8, 2013 08:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "wus-ter" will be the city. "wus-ter-shy-er", the county.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's "shy-er" to rhyme with hire, buyer, flyer, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LindaWhit RE: Harters Jul 8, 2013 08:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And the same in the States with Worcester, MA. It's Wuh-ster, not "Wor-chest-er".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bob W RE: LindaWhit Jul 8, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That would "Wuss-tah"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Where ya from?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Wusstah, Mass." 8<D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bob W
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LindaWhit RE: Bob W Jul 8, 2013 10:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good point. Forgot they drop the ending letter "r" up here. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bob W RE: LindaWhit Jul 8, 2013 10:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then put them back in the wrong places:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Whaddya drinkin?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Soder."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bob W
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bkeats RE: Bob W Jul 8, 2013 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My favorite is tunerfish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Chatsworth RE: Harters Jul 8, 2013 03:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Harters,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm surprised you pronounce it "shy-er". Coming, I believe, from south and east of you, I pronounce it "shuh", as in "wus-ter-shuh", "York-shuh", etc. (I'm from Derbyshire - as in Dah-be-shuh!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          grayelf RE: Harters Jul 8, 2013 05:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But what's the sauce, then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            INDIANRIVERFL RE: grayelf Jul 9, 2013 06:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Rotten fish and tamarind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              grayelf RE: INDIANRIVERFL Jul 10, 2013 05:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LOL, I meant the pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Chatsworth RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 08:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was raised in the UK and have lived in the US for over 20 years but still have to ask my children to ask for water because apparantly I can't pronounce it properly and I'm never understood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Was once at a restaurant and (around the time of "Real Men Eat Quiche") heard a guy ask for "kwitchee."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj RE: Chatsworth Jun 27, 2013 09:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you gloss over the 't', and make sure to include the 'r' you might be get closer to the American 'water'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I bet a lot of the posters who complain about the missing syllable or letter in 'caramel' and 'turmeric' are unaware of how they really pronounce words like 'water'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chatsworth RE: paulj Jun 27, 2013 10:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I know, I just can't bring myself to do it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            small h RE: Chatsworth Jun 28, 2013 06:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Some years ago, I helped a British woman get change for a dollar in a Manhattan bodega. She kept asking for "kwawtahs," which the counter guy didn't understand at all, because the word is pronounced "corders."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Harters RE: Chatsworth Jun 28, 2013 01:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chatsworth

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've been visiting the States (from the UK) since 1980. It is only in the last few years that my accent has been recognised as being British. Before that, I was always being asked where I came from - "New Zealand, at a guess", people would say. And my north west accent is nothing like a Kiwi's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hauckpdx RE: Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I still catch myself saying "sal-mon" because that's how my mom and dad have always pronounced it (English isn't their first language).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: hauckpdx
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            paulj RE: hauckpdx Jun 27, 2013 11:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Which raises the interesting question of why the pronunciation police don't complain about the missing 'l' in the common English pronunciation. It was present in Latin, still there in Spanish (salmo), but not in the French saumon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hauckpdx
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              enhF94 RE: hauckpdx Jun 30, 2013 07:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but you'll get "Salmonella" right, since it was named for Dr. Salmon, who pronounced the L!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: enhF94
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Firegoat RE: enhF94 Jun 30, 2013 07:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                One of my favorite ever restaurants is a little hole in the wall in downtown Tahlequah, Oklahoma called "Sam & Ellas Chicken Palace"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It doesn't serve chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. fldhkybnva RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 01:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My entire family says "weter," except for me since I wasn't raised in the Mid-Atlantic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. 3MTA3 RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 05:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Turmeric....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. mels RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 05:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Pho.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There is a great pho place near my office and for a couple years I though it was pho (foe) and all of my coworkers pronounce it as such. Once I found out it was pronounced "fuh" I was set in my ways and it is hard to turn back. Sometimes I catch myself but usually I pronounce it wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  13 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Firegoat RE: mels Jun 28, 2013 06:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm with you on this one. I know how to pronounce it, but when I see it in my head I immediately think foe. I usually catch myself before I open my mouth and embarrass myself... usually.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ruth Lafler RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 03:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Exactly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wahooty RE: mels Jun 28, 2013 06:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is one I will deliberately mispronounce around some people, because if I say it correctly they have no idea what I'm talking about. Sometimes the need to communicate efficiently trumps the need to be correct. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Wahooty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Googs RE: Wahooty Jun 28, 2013 09:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I just ignore it when friends request faux. It's not worth an argument.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ferret RE: mels Jun 28, 2013 07:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And how do you pronounce this (well, the first two words)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/medi...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Firegoat RE: mels Jun 28, 2013 09:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One thing about knowing the correct pronunciation is that I'm finally able to get the humor in all those punny restaurant names.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mels
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pedalfaster RE: mels Jun 28, 2013 03:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I had to LOL.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is a place near me named "Pho-shiki"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So OF COURSE I pronounce it "foe" More like "fooooe shiki!!!!". It's funny and just works that way. I picture the penguins from Ice Age. "Fuh" ---not so much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              salsailsa RE: mels Jun 29, 2013 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Agree- Russell Peters corrected that one for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                enhF94 RE: mels Jun 30, 2013 07:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                apparently there's a tonal shift in there too - like "fuh?" - but this can get one into pretentiousness trouble. Still, fun with restaurants like "what the pho" (Seattle).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: enhF94
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  grayelf RE: enhF94 Jun 30, 2013 10:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think that it depends what part of Vietnam you're in as well. I've hear it pronounced like the pelt of an animal: fu-ur. Could be a northern/southern variation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    kpaxonite RE: grayelf Jul 1, 2013 04:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don;t know anyone who pronounces fur in two syllables... or pho in two syllables for that matter..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      grayelf RE: kpaxonite Jul 1, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's how I've heard it pronounced in a couple of Viet restos in Vancouver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Although the more common pronunciation of pho is “fuh,” some regions pronounce it more as “foe,” and others in two syllables, Cu says, with a rising tone on the first syllable and a falling tone on the second. " http://www.chow.com/food-news/55268/h...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See also Trang Nguyen's response here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen RE: kpaxonite Jul 1, 2013 11:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i do. it's a very slight pause. almost like fuh-uh, but much quicker, and the second "syllable" is much more subdued.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Googs RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 09:37 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Piri piri. Not because I don't know how. Just because i feel like a snobby idiot saying it in a churrascaria.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    enhF94 RE: Googs Jun 24, 2014 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    coming back late to say “wait, how _do_ we pronounce piri piri?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Chinon00 RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 05:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I came to Massachusetts saying SKAH-lup and left saying SKAW-lup. Still do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Chinon00
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bob W RE: Chinon00 Jul 9, 2013 03:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My dad, a Taunton native and a proto-chowhound, called them SKOLL-ups, as if they were spelled scollops. Growing up in RI, we said SKAH-lups.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Firegoat RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 05:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This reminds me of the MasterChef episode this season where Graham Elliott and Joe Bastianich made fun of Gordon Ramsay's pronunciation of "basil."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        l
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        lagatta RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 06:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Basil is pronounced very differently by English-speakers, and it is more complicated than British vs US (and the rest of us scrambling about somewhere)...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: lagatta
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chatsworth RE: lagatta Jun 28, 2013 07:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyone who's watched Fawtly Towers knows how to pronounce it ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ferventfoodie RE: Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 08:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not really a mispronunciation because apparently both are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        accepted but when we were kids, my friend and I argued
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        over the word scone. We are both of Scottish heritage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but her family said it like stone and mine like gone. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wasn't until much more recently (and we're both in our 60s)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that we realized our relatives immigrated from the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        town, so it probably wasn't a regional difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        18 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paulj RE: ferventfoodie Jun 28, 2013 09:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I asked the maid in dulcet tone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To order me a buttered scone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The silly girl has been and gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And ordered me a buttered scone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scone#Le...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          discusses the patterns of those two pronunciations

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ferventfoodie RE: paulj Jun 29, 2013 11:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the link - love the poem!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: ferventfoodie
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Leonardo RE: ferventfoodie Jun 30, 2013 08:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Depends on the region. Could be scon, scone, or scoone!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just Visiting RE: ferventfoodie Aug 6, 2013 05:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Scone. One of the words I took the trouble to learn to say the way it is said where the food item originated. SCAHN. And people in DC - an area full of highly educated people - correct me and tell me it is SKONE. Same thing with GYRO. ROOIBOS. Which admittedly depends on whether the drinker in question is an Afrikaaner (Ruy-boss, with a very short Ruy that almost sounds like Wry) or British (Roy-boss). It is an Afrikaans word but my husband's family is British so that was how I first learned it. Not that it matters. No one in the U.S. has any clue what I am saying anyway. Then there is the "y" in yucca which is sort of "j" sound. And it is NOT Jucka, but jooka. And again, except in certain restaurants, no one has a clue. So I just give up. It still makes me crazy when national TV news anchors say things like junta instead of "hunta" or llama instead of "yama" because they are paid enough to know better. No wonder Americans butcher the languages of other countries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paulj RE: Just Visiting Aug 6, 2013 08:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ordering a pomegranate and cranberry SCAHN at Starbucks would be, IMO, the height of pretentiousness.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There are dialectical variations in the pronunciation of 'y' and 'll'. We discussed this a month ago in this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just Visiting RE: paulj Aug 7, 2013 04:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And here I thought I was being respectful of other languages. Not pretentious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You wouldn't want to be pretentious by ordering a SCAHN along with your Venti Latte from your barrista. Gimme a cuppajoe Joe, buddy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is it pretentious to order FREET instead of FRIGHTS? Fwah grah instead of foy grass? Then why is it pretentious to order a SCAHN?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, there are variations in the pronunciation of "y" and "ll" - as it is often said, South American countries are divided by a common language. My friends in Colombia sternly instruct me to pronounce both as a "j" while those in Ecuador laugh at me if I do that. However, in no South American country that I've been in - and I've been in almost all of them multiple times - is "ll" pronounced as the letter L. Oddly, people who know enough to say "Me llamo..." with the y or j sound - to introduce themselves - I've NEVER heard "Me lamo" with the l sound - will still call the animal a "lama" with the L sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My husband is an English-speaker from South Africa where the word is scahn. Is he being pretentious by saying the word they way he said it for 30 plus years before moving to the U.S.? He also says packet (of chips, for instance), tomahto sauce (for catsup), and car park for parking lot. He pronounces filet (feelay) as phil-it. Sometimes in restaurants or stores I have to "translate" for him - particularly if we are in the South.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    small h RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 05:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm confused. Why is it okay for your husband to pronounce filet the way he learned it, but it's not okay for me to pronounce llama the way I learned it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just Visiting RE: small h Aug 7, 2013 09:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Someone taught you to pronounce the word llama with an "l" and not a "y" or "jh" sound? In a Spanish-speaking country? Really? Well, that's a new one on me. Well, then by all means, pronounce it that way. As I said, I've been all over South American and the Spanish-speaking Caribbean, took years of Spanish classes, and have never once heard anyone pronounce the double L as an L. What country was it where you learned this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        small h RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 10:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I learned to pronounce a word of Spanish origin in a non-Spanish-speaking country. And your husband learned to pronounce a word of French origin in a non-French-speaking country. So both me and your husband pronounce these words differently than they would be pronounced in their language of origin. Yet your earlier post seems to imply that I pronounce llama "wrong," but your husband pronounces filet "right." And I don't understand why you think this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just Visiting RE: small h Aug 7, 2013 10:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't think that. Sorry if you got that impression. You are right - the word "filet" was a poor example. It is a word of French derivation and the British pronunciation, picked up by English-speaking South Africans, is not correct if it is your goal (as it is mine) to try to say words the way they are said in the country of origin. And actually, in my view, they are saying it incorrectly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you are saying llama with an L, then yes, it is incorrect. Would you say "me Lamo (Small)?" or "me yamo/djamo (Small)?" The latter, I hope! At least when in a Spanish-speaking country!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sorry for choosing a poor example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            small h RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 11:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Got it, thanks for clarifying. I'm not confident enough in my Spanish skills to do much beyond asking directions or ordering food, so it's unlikely I'd ever have to mention llamas. But if the situation arises, I'll try to get it right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 12:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              'me llamo ...' (llama if you are female) means 'I am called ...' (my name is ...).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              'llama' also means the animal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While 'lamo' with a distinctly English 'l' would mark you as foreign, 'yamo' and 'djamo' are equally good regional uses. I would advise using the 'y' unless to locals prefer 'dj'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Some times 'yo', 'I' is added, as in 'yo me llamo' ('yo' and 'me' both refer to 1st person). Whether the 'y' and 'll' are pronounced the same or not is another (but related) regional difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                d
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 12:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just looking at your last message: "impression", "pronunciation", "derivation", "poor", "example", "correct", "origin", "country", … All of these words come from French (or directly from Latin), but no one worries about saying them the way they are said in their country of origin. You have to draw the line somewhere, I think, and accept that at some point, a word can become plain old English, and its pronunciation is determined by English speakers, without reference to the pronunciation in the original language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's like if someone did some research on me and found out my family originally came from some other country, and tried to tell me to stop pretending to be American and told everyone I knew that it was incorrect to treat me like an American. I wouldn't exactly consider that respectful…

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bill Hunt RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 09:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, you might be horribly surprised. The creature is often called a "Lama," in many areas of the US. That is just how it is, correct, or incorrect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                girloftheworld RE: Bill Hunt Aug 12, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Waaaaiiit isnt it a "L.ah.ma"? how am supouse to be saying it? poor little animal..we allllll say "lahma" nooo wonder they spit at me!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ricepad RE: girloftheworld Aug 13, 2013 07:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lots of talk about llamas, but no recipes...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ricepad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    paulj RE: ricepad Aug 13, 2013 07:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    'llamas' - as in the animal, or the flames?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    'como se llama la parrillada de llama a la llama?' - what's flame grilled llama called?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Harters RE: Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In the UK, scone is either SKON (to rhyme with gone) or SCOWN (to rhyme with grown or groan)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for the other pronounciations, I think South African English generally follows British English (as does Australian and New Zealand English).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      TMT1977 RE: Firegoat Jun 29, 2013 02:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pho.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: TMT1977
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        grayelf RE: TMT1977 Jun 29, 2013 05:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I came late to the wonder that is the macaron. The first time I saw it in print I thought it was a typo for macaroon (which BTW I have always hated as a sweet). So I was kind of taken aback when Gordon, Graham and Joe were all banging on about "macaroons" in a recent Masterchef US elimination challenge which was to make great macarons. Serves me right for watching Masterchef, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paulj RE: grayelf Jun 29, 2013 06:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One is an early borrowing from French, the other a recent borrowing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          " Recipes for macaroons (also spelled "mackaroon," "maccaroon" and "mackaroom") appear in recipe books at least as early as 1725 (Robert Smith's Court Cookery, or the Complete English Cook)."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaroon...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          'macaroni' has the same Italian roots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "The -oon ending was conventional in 15c.-17c. English to add emphasis to borrowings of French nouns ending in stressed -on."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?t...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        jbsiegel RE: Firegoat Jun 29, 2013 05:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pronounced Moet wrong (mo-AY) for the longest time. Finally went on a tour of Chandon where they corrected us. It's mwet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LindaWhit RE: jbsiegel Jun 29, 2013 05:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          OK, there's one I didn't know. I've always pronounced it mo-AY. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            jbsiegel RE: LindaWhit Jun 29, 2013 05:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What's funny is when I order it in a restaurant/bar. Sometimes they look at me like I'm crazy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Googs RE: jbsiegel Jun 29, 2013 08:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You just totally wrecked a Queen song for me. I think I'll practice the Wahooty theory on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Googs
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Leonardo RE: Googs Jun 30, 2013 08:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can't believe no one has mentioned Pinot Noir. Hurts my ears hearing "Nwah". Why do people assume that all French consonants are silent? The "r" is there, just not the hard American "r".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paulj RE: Leonardo Jun 30, 2013 09:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Digging around a bit, I find that that final 'r' is called a ' rhotic'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "^5 The French rhotic has a wide range of realizations: the uvular fricatives [χ] and [ʁ] (the latter also realized as an approximant), the uvular trill [ʀ], the alveolar trill [r], and the alveolar tap [ɾ]. These are all recognized as the phoneme /r/,[6] but most of them (all except [ʁ] and [χ]) are considered dialectal."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_p...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                English has the alveolar tap [ɾ], but not ʁ . We can't help but trip over unfamiliar phonemes like this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My rule of thumb for pronouncing unfamiliar French is to drop the last half of the letters, and mangle the rest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: paulj
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  INDIANRIVERFL RE: paulj Jul 1, 2013 12:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Finally learned how to pronounce my favorite bubbly while touring the cellars. Tit on Jay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ChefJune RE: INDIANRIVERFL Jul 5, 2013 12:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    M. Taittinger says 'Tat on zhay"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      almond tree RE: ChefJune Jul 6, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No. he doesn't.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2iFbV...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mariacarmen RE: jbsiegel Jul 1, 2013 11:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i think it's actually closer to moette, said quickly, which gives you the appearance (ahem) of saying mwet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://howjsay.com/index.php?word=moe...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                INDIANRIVERFL RE: mariacarmen Jul 2, 2013 07:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We were the only Americans in a group of Germans. Maybe that is the correct German pronunciation of Taittinger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cresyd RE: Firegoat Jul 1, 2013 01:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Macaron - I have now been taught the right way but really can't shake the macaroon pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bkeats RE: Firegoat Jul 1, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I know how to "properly" pronounce almost every type of food I eat. I just refuse to use the "proper" pronunciation for all of the words. Why? Because I'm here in the states and I'll speak like I everyone else. You think the French worry about how they pronounce "Le Hamburger?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Now I think I will go get me a gy-row with a glass of peanut nwa.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                52 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  girloftheworld RE: Bkeats Jul 1, 2013 11:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  good point. my fencing coach use to always "Giada" us . We would go eat at a simple pizza place and he would have to order with precise pronuncication that just made the gum chewing high school waitress silently say "what an ass" .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JDAWG RE: girloftheworld Jul 5, 2013 07:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I live in Canada, so there is an added level of complexity given there are millions of native french speakers, many who don't know much or any English. No matter where in the country you live, you will be exposed to enough French to at least know how to pronounce French words properly, or pretty close, so it really sticks out when someone does not say them correctly. But there are still some words that have an "English" pronunciation, whether anglicised recently or not, they are accepted, widely used, and I feel no need to change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The best example is the pronunciation of city of Montreal. I do not use the French pronunciation of Montreal and never will. It amazes me there are people who believe you should as absolutely no one expects a French Canadian to pronounce cities with English names the same way as English speakers. It's obvious pretension to suggest it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JDAWG
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mtlcowgirl RE: JDAWG Jul 29, 2013 10:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ^5. I'm from Montreal and fully bilingual. When I speak French, I pronounce it in French. When I speak English, I pronounce it in English (which is Muntreal BTW). Taking the Greyhound back from NYC one time, the driver insisted on using the French pronunciation. Even the francophones were rolling their eyes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ruth Lafler RE: Bkeats Jul 1, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well said. I always think it's pretentious when my mother tries to correct my pronunciation when I'm pronouncing a word the way it is commonly pronounced in the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Leonardo RE: Ruth Lafler Jul 1, 2013 06:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's precisely my point. Americans saying PInot Noir as "Nwah" are not only wrong, they are pretentious. By not even trying, and using a conventional American accent, it would be far more correct AND unpretentious..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj RE: Leonardo Jul 1, 2013 06:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Why do you claim they are pretentious? People can make wrong guesses without ulterior motives.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          globocity RE: paulj Jul 1, 2013 09:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Very good point, paulj!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          almond tree RE: Leonardo Jul 1, 2013 09:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But how would you pronounce "noir" with a "conventional American accent"? To rhyme with "lawyer"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            maria lorraine RE: almond tree Jul 1, 2013 11:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Noir has been assimilated into American English: Film noir, Pinot Noir.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My perspective is that we honor a culture by pronouncing its words correctly. It's not pretense; it's respect. Same goes for spelling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But I understand how the proper pronunciation of a foreign word may mean one is not understood, the same as using a five-dollar vocabulary word. The speaker intuits context and his listener, and speaks accordingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj RE: maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 12:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              OK, 'noir' is an artsy way of saying 'black' or 'dark'. What is 'pinot'?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do German speakers honor, or dishonor, French culture by calling the same grapes Blauburgunder or Spätburgunder. What about the Italian Pinot nero?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To me 'correct' pronunciation is a communication issue. What is the clearest of getting my intended meaning across to my audience? I'v never had occasion to talk to a French speaker about wine, so I don't worry about someone being offended (or dishonored) by my faulty pronunciation of 'noir'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                grayelf RE: maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I like to try to pronounce non-English words as close to the correct way as I can. But sometimes you completely lose the meaning: when my parents came back from Indonesia the first time, my mum said the name of one of the islands the "proper" way and no one knew what she was on about. Apparently the v in Java is pronounced like a w! Can you imagine if we all started calling coffee jawa, LOL.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Firegoat RE: grayelf Jul 3, 2013 05:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Welcome to my new Coffee Shop ... Jawa the Hutt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Googs RE: grayelf Jul 3, 2013 06:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We'd all sound like Baba Wawa.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mariacarmen RE: almond tree Jul 1, 2013 11:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  nwar. as opposed to nwah.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mariacarmen
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    aasg RE: mariacarmen Jul 6, 2013 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Definitely not how you say noir...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: aasg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mariacarmen RE: aasg Jul 7, 2013 02:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      no, it's not. i was responding to almond tree.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jerseygirl111 RE: almond tree Jul 1, 2013 11:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps there is confusion with this because noir is in pretty common use in English such as "film noir" or "drakkar noir." I guess I usually hear it as no-are, but said quickly noarr, like the ar in ark.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: almond tree
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bkeats RE: almond tree Jul 2, 2013 04:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was trying to figure the same thing out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      no-er
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      no-ire
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      noor

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What's conventional when you're butchering someone else's language?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Leonardo
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      DeppityDawg RE: Leonardo Jul 2, 2013 05:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You are correct to suggest that the "r" is not silent in this word in French, but one might disagree that it is "far more correct" to pronounce it as a conventional American "r". I would actually say that most Anericans are better off saying "nwah" and "bong swah" and "oh-vwah" if they haven't mastered the French pronunciation. Nothing sticks out more (in a bad way) in American accents than the "r".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        almond tree RE: Leonardo Jul 2, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seems to me like both "nwar" and "nwah" are not exactly wrong and not exactly right but if you split the difference, you'll come pretty close.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Leonardo
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sandylc RE: Leonardo Jul 2, 2013 09:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We need a thumbs down option! ;-(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Billy33 RE: Leonardo Jul 5, 2013 02:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just had a giggle to myself because we New Zealanders would pronounce the 'Noir' as 'nwah' because we tend (like the English) to drop the 'r' sound at the end of words that end in r. Therefore, pronouncing non-English food/drink terms also depends on which English-speaking country you're from!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Also, why do Americans pronounce Parmesan as 'parma-zhan'? I can understand that pronunciation if you were saying Parmigiano Reggiano but why apply it to the anglicised word 'Parmesan'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Billy33
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mbfant RE: Billy33 Jul 5, 2013 07:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good question about parma-zhan. Drives me crazy too. I think it is because they don't grasp/accept that Parmesan is an English word and are trying to make it sound foreign. I don't know why they do it. Of course, the zh sound would be wrong in the Italian form parmigiano, which is a g, like giraffe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mbfant
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg RE: mbfant Jul 5, 2013 08:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I really doubt that people are trying to make the word sound foreign. They just think it's pronounced that way. But, depending on how long the "zh" pronunciation has been around, it could be because it was originally recognized as a French adaptation of an Italian word. And in many cases, where Italian has the "dzh" sound (gennaio, giovane, Giacomo, coraggio), French has the simpler "zh" sound (janvier, jeune, Jacques, courage).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paulj RE: mbfant Jul 5, 2013 08:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Most of us pronounce words in the way that we are used to hearing them (possibly years ago). We don't consciously think, 'this is Italian so I should pronounce it that way', or this word is 3/4 of the way toward being a full English word ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Billy33
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood RE: Billy33 Jul 5, 2013 09:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Maybe for the same reason groceries is pronounced grosheries in most parts of the US. Beats me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mariacarmen RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 10:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    whaaa? who does that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood RE: mariacarmen Jul 5, 2013 11:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Almost everyone I know. Maybe an east coast thang? Or everyone I know is somehow related to "Shean" Connery :-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        small h RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 12:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've lived on the East Coast all my life, and I can't recall ever hearing the word pronounced "grosheries." The middle syllable gets lost - it sounds like "grossrees" - but it's definitely an "s," not a "sh." Unless the speaker is drunk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LindaWhit RE: small h Jul 5, 2013 01:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Same here. Grew up in NJ, lived in central PA, and now in the Boston area. It's always groceries, *not* grosheries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood RE: LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 02:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Huh. Ok, I'll pay more attention in the next few days. Maybe I'm the one who's drunk '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cayjohan RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm in the Midwest (MN), and I rarely hear anything *but* the "grosheries" pronunciation, or honestly, the truncated "grosh-rees." Always makes me think of Foster Brooks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: cayjohan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LindaWhit RE: cayjohan Jul 5, 2013 02:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LOL! I remember Foster Brooks. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So maybe it's a Midwestern thing, and not a Northeastern/East Coast pronunciation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindaWhit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sandylc RE: LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CAUGHT! Wow, didn't see that one coming...just when I was almost finished learning to say "candidate" rather than "cannidate".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Always room for more self improvement, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think I speak/pronounce words pretty well. But I am guilty on the "grosheries" front.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'll begin working on that one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  p.s. Born and raised in the Midwest. Still live in the upper Midwest. (Refuse to call Minnesota the Midwest.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sandylc
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cayjohan RE: sandylc Jul 6, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm so *caught* on this one too, sandy. If I read the word, I hear it in my head as "grocery." If I were to read, out loud, a passage containing the word, I would pronounce it "grocery." But in conversation if I say "Hey, we need to make out a list for the grocery store, it always comes out "groshery."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My son, when young, once asked me what "in your *grosser's* freezer" meant. He had some fanciful five-year-old ideas of what charmingly "gross" things were lurking in freezers everywhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: cayjohan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  girloftheworld RE: cayjohan Jul 5, 2013 02:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  here in Texas they all just fixin to go to da store

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cayjohan RE: girloftheworld Jul 6, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Folks in my small hometown always went "downt the groshery".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LindaWhit RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's those late night poker parties. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood RE: LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 03:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That musht be it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: linguafood
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    small h RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 06:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <Maybe I'm the one who's drunk '-)>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There's no shshame in that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                JungMann RE: linguafood Jul 5, 2013 10:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Grosheries" is a pronunciation I didn't know existed until a couple months ago when The Atlantic posted a university survey on American English.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/d...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LindaWhit RE: JungMann Jul 6, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  VERY interesting, JM - it looks like the "grosheries" pronunciation with the "sh" is as prevalent in New England as is the "groceries" with just the "s".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am curious, however, what the "Other" pronunciation might be that also seems to be said in this area. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JungMann RE: LindaWhit Jul 6, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are a lot of "other" pronunciations that had me scratching my head for hours. I also wasted a good half hour repeating the word "pecan" to myself to try and figure out if I say it one of the "weird" ways on the survey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      grayelf RE: JungMann Jul 6, 2013 10:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I favour pee-kan. The long A on the end (pih-khan) sounds a bit weird to my BC-born-and-raised ears.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen RE: grayelf Jul 7, 2013 02:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i'm a pih-khan gal!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          grayelf RE: mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 09:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And it sounds mighty fine on ya!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Becca Porter RE: linguafood Jul 6, 2013 06:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We do it in Louisiana. One of those things you say because everyone else does?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Becca Porter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood RE: Becca Porter Jul 6, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yep. I'm not a native speaker and so tend to assimilate my pronunciation according to my surroundings.... which means when I'm surrounded by Brits, my diction becomes more British.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm weird like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gastronomos RE: linguafood Jul 6, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "...my pronunciation according to my surroundings.... "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you ain't the only one that does that I assure you! :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Gastronomos
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    INDIANRIVERFL RE: Gastronomos Jul 7, 2013 09:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ich auch. Old Chap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kris in Beijing RE: linguafood Jul 12, 2013 08:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                When we returned to the Southern US from Korea, my then-7yr old wanted to know why her Nona needed to visit the "Go See Store."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Of course, then, that's what we still call it in our family. To the point that in emails we abbreviate to GC Store...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          AmyH RE: Bkeats Jul 1, 2013 01:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've found that on the occasions I do try to properly pronounce a word in a restaurant, the waiter doesn't know what I'm saying. It's either because I'm still not pronouncing it correctly, or they're just not expecting to hear it that way and have gotten used to the American way it is pronounced. If I say it a second time they usually get it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          INDIANRIVERFL RE: Firegoat Jul 1, 2013 11:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anything in French. I have been killing that language forever. Trying to impress a date, I ordered a Boreducks wine to go with our meal. The waiter gently and discretely corrected me when he brought the bottle to our table.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My ears still get red thinking about it 4 decades later.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mtlcowgirl RE: INDIANRIVERFL Jul 29, 2013 10:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is hysterical.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            jjw RE: Firegoat Jul 1, 2013 04:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I just read through this thread, and wanted to check the pronunciation of various words being thrown around. I found this great site that seems to have them all:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://howjsay.com/index.php?word
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just type in the word and the guys says it for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: jjw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              almond tree RE: jjw Jul 1, 2013 09:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Interesting site, but I see his pronunciation is off on some non-English words. Sounds like he is reading them from a phonetic version and he sometimes accents the wrong syllable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: jjw
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sandylc RE: jjw Jul 2, 2013 09:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I enjoy this website frequently for a different view of pronunciations in English. It also shows me that the British have a few issues of their own here; it isn't just Americans who can butcher languages. We just happen to be viewed as a fun target.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. JungMann RE: Firegoat Jul 2, 2013 11:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patatjes oorlog. Ever since undergoing throat surgery my trills just aren't the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. Bill Hunt RE: Firegoat Jul 3, 2013 09:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am from Mississippi, so the list is too long to even contemplate, and especially when I am in Italy, or France.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I will just not go into that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ferventfoodie RE: Firegoat Jul 5, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Still have trouble with "gnocchi" , even after making it in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    two different classes in Italy where they tried to get me to pronounce it properly. Don't know if I don't hear it correctly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    or I'm phsyically incapable of making the sound (can't roll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    an "r" either after years of coaching from Scottish family)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but just can't seem to get it right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood RE: ferventfoodie Jul 5, 2013 11:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nyo'cky comes pretty close.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        p
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pedalfaster RE: ferventfoodie Jul 5, 2013 11:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hey, as long as it tastes knee-ok (<<<bad joke) I'm good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seriously, that fact that you are travelling, taking classes and making pasta from scratch, is good enough for me (and should be for many others).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cook ON, and buon appetito.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paulj RE: ferventfoodie Jul 5, 2013 12:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You grew up learning to make (and recognize) one set of sounds (the English phonemes). One of the hardest parts of learning another language is to learn its distinctive sounds.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aasg RE: Firegoat Jul 5, 2013 12:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ditto on quinoa. I used to pronounce it quinn-oh-ah.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Phyllo/filo. (I said fi-lo rather then fee-lo.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4 Replies