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Foods you pronounce incorrectly.

Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 06:42 AM

So we were talking about some of the over-enunciation of certain food hosts and food pronunciation. Has there ever been a food you pronounced flat-out wrong. And finally figured it out?

Here's mine. Quinoa.

  1. EWSflash Jan 19, 2014 08:15 PM

    Only crepes. I always strive to pronounce the names properly.

    1. Ruthie789 Aug 6, 2013 05:43 PM

      That famous sauce that begins with a W and ends in shire.

      4 Replies
      1. re: Ruthie789
        Bill Hunt Aug 6, 2013 08:44 PM

        Ah, but the "shire" gets very lost. Guess they did not read Tolkein?


        1. re: Ruthie789
          jmckee Aug 7, 2013 08:44 AM

          There was a comedy routine when I was a kid that ended with the reason for the name: Somebody tastes it and says, "W'at's dish here sauce?"

          1. re: jmckee
            Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 09:08 AM

            Are you sure that was a comedy routine? There actually is a product called Wass-Dis Here Sauce:


            None other than Frederick Douglass, using his uncle's recipe, made this barbecue sauce. I don't know if it bore any resemblance to Worcestershire sauce.


            1. re: Just Visiting
              jmckee Aug 8, 2013 08:01 AM

              I'm sure. I think it was Godfrey Cambridge or somebody like that......

        2. DockPotato Aug 6, 2013 02:03 PM

          I'm sure many of you have seen the Chopped episode where one of the ingredients was introduced as "turbo", the panel all discussed the properties of "turbo" and each of the contestants prepared "turbo".

          The proper pronunciation is "tur-but" with the accent on the first syllable. I confess that I had to confirm this on both Webster and OED.

          No need to have created Hyacinth, she's all around us.

          4 Replies
          1. re: DockPotato
            paulj Aug 6, 2013 10:02 PM

            According the Wiki article:

            In the UK, Turbot is pronounced /ˈtɜrbət/ tur-bət. In the US it is pronounced /ˈtɜrboʊ/ tur-boh (the French pronunciation of "turbot" is [tyʁbo]).

            Personally I use tur-bət, but I can imagine people giving it a pseudo-french pronunciation. Americans have been using French cooking terms to add status to their cooking for a couple of centuries.

            That 2010 Chopped episode is titled '"Turbot Powered".

            1. re: paulj
              DockPotato Aug 7, 2013 01:04 AM

              Well then somewhere Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster parted company on U.S. English:


              Interestingly, I clicked the article's Wiktionary link and it contradicts the article:


              1. re: DockPotato
                paulj Aug 7, 2013 05:55 AM

                An earlier editing was
                'Turbot is pronounced /ˈtɜrbət/ tur-bət. It is occasionally mispronounced /ˈtɜrboʊ/ TUR-boh. This is likely a back-formation based on French words ending in -ot (the French pronunciation of "turbot" is [tyʁbo]), or an instance of hypercorrection.[citation needed'

                There's been a minor editing battle over this.

                1. re: paulj
                  DockPotato Aug 7, 2013 06:21 AM

                  Which would one most rely on as an authority on U.S. English, Merriam-Webster or Wikipedia?

                  I agree with your observation, "people giving it a pseudo-french pronunciation". Now, can you recall if the fish on that show were dressed as "fillets" or "filets"?

          2. p
            punkin712 Aug 6, 2013 07:09 AM

            I often hear people pronounce chipotle as "chipoltay" rather than "chipotlay". I also know someone who pronounces dulce de leche as "douche de loosh".

            11 Replies
            1. re: punkin712
              paulj Aug 6, 2013 09:45 AM

              How do they (or you) pronounce the initial vowel sound of chipotle?

              1. re: paulj
                punkin712 Aug 6, 2013 01:15 PM

                Same as for the word "chip". Crud - is that wrong?! I better stop snickering at douche de loosh.

                1. re: punkin712
                  paulj Aug 6, 2013 02:28 PM

                  The wiki article contrasts an English style
                  with a Spanish: [tʃiˈpotle])
                  where the first vowel 'i' is more like the English 'e in 'see' - that is, a long 'e' as opposed to a short 'i'. The Spanish stress is on the first syl.

                  I haven't seen a good information on how the 'Nahuatl word chilpoctli ' is pronounced.

                  1. re: paulj
                    DeppityDawg Aug 6, 2013 02:37 PM

                    The stress is on the same (second) syllable in both English and Spanish. (The stress mark precedes the stressed vowel or syllable in IPA.) If it were stressed on the first syllable in Spanish, the word would have to carry a written accent ("*chípotle").

              2. re: punkin712
                Caitlin McGrath Aug 6, 2013 03:55 PM

                Yeah, people often transpose the 't' and 'l' in chipotle. However, it should actually be chee-POHT-leh. As DeppiytDawg says, the stress in Spanish is always on the next-to-last syllable, unless there is an accent over the vowel in another syllable to indicate stress, and as paulj says, the 'i' is pronounced like 'ee'. But as mariacarmen says elsewhere in this thread, an 'e' in Spanish is always pronounced 'eh' rather than 'ay'.

                1. re: Caitlin McGrath
                  dmjordan Aug 6, 2013 05:14 PM

                  Although if a word ends in a consonant, except "s" or "n", the natural stress is on the last syllable.

                  1. re: dmjordan
                    Caitlin McGrath Aug 6, 2013 10:28 PM

                    Yeah, you're right.

                2. re: punkin712
                  ricepad Aug 6, 2013 08:37 PM

                  I *love* 'douche de loosh'! I'm gonna steal that one!

                  1. re: ricepad
                    Bill Hunt Aug 6, 2013 08:42 PM

                    As "sh" is often silent in some obscure languages, maybe they were trying for "douche de loo?"


                    1. re: Bill Hunt
                      ricepad Aug 6, 2013 08:53 PM

                      That makes a certain amount of twisted logic!

                      1. re: Bill Hunt
                        Jeri L Aug 6, 2013 10:33 PM

                        That sounds like a delicate way of saying "flush the toilet".

                  2. c
                    clamchowderrlambchop Aug 3, 2013 05:24 PM

                    My late brother in law, who was Italian-american, got a kick out of how we pronounced Italian deli meats and cheeses with the "extra" a" "o" whatever, so one day he sent my sister to the Italian deli (where he knew a guy who worked there) and made a point to her about how to order the food, all wrong. He called the guy and told him to correct her every time. So she ordered lb of mozzarell"a", he said moozarell. she ordered ricott"a", he said rigott, you get the picture. She went home fuming after she caught on to the joke. RIP Pete, he was a funny guy and also a fish wholesale salesman so I miss him even more cause he use to invite me over for free seafood.

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: clamchowderrlambchop
                      Leonardo Aug 4, 2013 08:09 AM

                      Reminds me of when Tony Soprano & his crew went to Italy (Naples?). They ordered spaghetti & meatballs with red sauce (NOT on the menu). Waiters were aghast. Said to each other in Italian "They have s**t for taste. They are worse than the Germans!"

                    2. t
                      tetsuofruit Jul 29, 2013 06:25 PM

                      Endive. Bruscetta

                      1. AmyH Jul 29, 2013 06:14 PM

                        Can someone please tell me how to pronounce flageolet beans? Fla-gee-o-let? Fla-gee-o-lay? Fla-djo-LET? Fla-djo-LAY?

                        3 Replies
                        1. re: AmyH
                          DeppityDawg Jul 29, 2013 06:32 PM


                          1. re: DeppityDawg
                            AmyH Jul 30, 2013 04:59 AM


                          2. re: AmyH
                            Bob W Aug 1, 2013 12:08 PM

                            That reminds me of how the Louisiana musical genre of zydeco, under one common theory, was named -- from an old creole expression "Les haricots sont pas sales" (The snap beans aren't salty."), which is pronounced "leh-zy-dee-co sohn pah salay."

                          3. l
                            LeoLioness Jul 29, 2013 09:20 AM


                            I can look at it and slowly sound it out, but when I try to say it in a "normal" voice or, even worse, without seeing it written in front of me, I invariably tumble over it, omitting some letters and adding new ones.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: LeoLioness
                              AmyH Jul 29, 2013 06:12 PM

                              Please look further up the thread. There's a whole dissertation on the pronunciation of that wine.

                            2. w
                              williej Jul 27, 2013 12:45 PM

                              Au gratin. I often hear it pronounced O graw ten.
                              A la mode. I often hear it pronounced A la Mawd

                              7 Replies
                              1. re: williej
                                almond tree Jul 27, 2013 08:24 PM

                                The 2nd one is pretty close: http://www.forvo.com/word/%C3%A0_la_m...

                                1. re: almond tree
                                  paulj Jul 28, 2013 12:22 AM

                                  So that's the pronunciation for "à la mode = fashionable". What am I supposed to use when I mean 'I want ice cream with the pie'?

                                  1. re: paulj
                                    almond tree Jul 28, 2013 04:19 PM

                                    What's wrong with "à la mode" -- pronounced the same way? When used for pie, it's short for " à la mode américaine" (American style).

                                    1. re: almond tree
                                      paulj Jul 28, 2013 06:18 PM

                                      should I use an American pronunciation or a faux-French one?

                                      1. re: paulj
                                        almond tree Jul 29, 2013 03:57 AM

                                        Pair pie "a la mawd" with Champagne and "a la mohd" with Boone's Farm Strawberry.

                                        1. re: paulj
                                          mtlcowgirl Aug 1, 2013 11:04 AM

                                          Paulj, by all means pronounce mode as you would in any other English sentence, e.g. relaxed mode. Besides, in French, we call it "avec crème glacée".

                                          1. re: mtlcowgirl
                                            paulj Aug 1, 2013 11:38 AM

                                            Once a borrowed word or phrase takes on a new meaning in English, there isn't much point in trying to preserve the original pronunciation or morphology (plurals).

                                2. j
                                  jbsiegel Jul 27, 2013 09:44 AM

                                  It was a long time until I got ceviche right!

                                  12 Replies
                                  1. re: jbsiegel
                                    paulj Jul 27, 2013 11:51 AM

                                    And the 'v' part might still be wrong, since the sound doesn't exist in English


                                    1. re: paulj
                                      jbsiegel Jul 27, 2013 12:43 PM

                                      Yikes...does that mean it's really suh bee chay?

                                      1. re: jbsiegel
                                        globocity Jul 28, 2013 06:17 PM

                                        "seh" not "suh". In Spanish, the /b/ and /v/ are not contrasted.

                                        1. re: globocity
                                          jbsiegel Jul 29, 2013 05:36 PM

                                          You're right about the "seh" vs. "suh". I realized that after I posted (and do say it as "seh")!

                                      2. re: paulj
                                        mariacarmen Jul 28, 2013 10:11 PM

                                        wait, WHAT??

                                        THIS IS NEW. i know that's what's being taught, and has been for the last probably 15-20 years (friends of mine went to grad school in Spain and came back with this pronunciation), but i grew up speaking Spanish and surrounded by Spanish-speaking people from many different countries and there is DEFINITELY a "v" sound and a "b" sound. or there was.

                                        Valencia was Valencia, not Balencia.
                                        Bravo is bravo, not brabo, or whatever that "English "b" in which the lips are not allowed to touch." sound is supposed to sound like.
                                        the word for "obvious" is "obvio" - two sounds - "b" and "v". "ob-vio". not "obbio".

                                        or, ok, maybe the Spanish language has "evolved" and this is how many people talk now. to me it feels lazy. but i know many, many native Spanish speakers now who do not talk like this. thank goodness. now get off of my lawn.

                                        and quit sucking me back in here, paulj! :)

                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                          paulj Jul 29, 2013 12:31 AM

                                          ceviche, cebiche, seviche are all accepted spellings,


                                          1. re: mariacarmen
                                            DeppityDawg Jul 29, 2013 02:51 AM

                                            According to the Real Academia, the pronunciation of "b" and "v" in Spanish merged by the 16th century. Some dictionaries and grammars tried to maintain a difference in pronunciation for a long time, but eventually "laziness" triumphed. Nowadays some speakers have a distinction due to influence (conscious or unconscious) from Catalan, Portuguese, English, or other languages, but this is not considered standard.


                                            1. re: DeppityDawg
                                              mariacarmen Jul 29, 2013 12:13 PM

                                              i am glad laziness hasn't triumphed everywhere. most people i hear speak Spanish still make the distinction.

                                              even when i took high school Spanish (ro the easy A)-considerably LATER than the 16th century, the Spanish teacher taught using the distinction.

                                              1. re: mariacarmen
                                                DeppityDawg Jul 29, 2013 01:46 PM

                                                The b/v distinction was still recommended by Spanish language authorities until the early 20th century, and teaching methods and people's ideas about the language have not necessarily evolved much since then. Spanish teachers have a tendency to maintain an artificial and pedantic pronunciation of "v" to help their students learn vocabulary and correct spelling. (See for example J. J. Stevens, 2000, "On the Labiodental Pronunciation of Spanish /b/ among Teachers of Spanish as a Second Language", Hispania 83:139–149.)

                                                1. re: mariacarmen
                                                  paulj Jul 29, 2013 02:12 PM

                                                  A thread looking for sentences using words that differ only by the b/v, e.g. vaca v baca, and sabia v savia

                                                  Atamos la vaca a la baca del coche para que viajase con nosotros.

                                                  We tied the cow to the roof rack so it could travel with us.

                                                  Una mujer sabia me rocomendó tomar yogurt de savia de soja.

                                                  A wise woman recommend that I eat soy milk (sap?) yogurt.

                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                    Bill Hunt Aug 1, 2013 09:16 PM

                                                    That is starting to sound like a line from the Mitt Romney campaign - but was that not a dog? I did not realize that a cow had been tied to the top of a car!

                                                    At least Romney did not eat the dog.


                                                  2. re: mariacarmen
                                                    paulj Jul 29, 2013 07:15 PM

                                                    If loosing phonemic distinctions is laziness, then all modern Spanish speakers are guilty.
                                                    claims that 15th century Spanish had 8 distinct sibilants (s,z,th like sounds). Now that has been reduced to 3 (Castilian 'lisp') or 2 (most of Latin America).

                                                    English speakers who don't use 'thee and thou' are equally guilty of laziness.

                                          2. Firegoat Jul 15, 2013 07:49 AM

                                            I also tend to call those delicious sausages "Brats" (like horrible children) rather than "Brawts" (like bras for tater tots.) This annoys a certain person in my life a great deal.

                                            9 Replies
                                            1. re: Firegoat
                                              mariacarmen Jul 15, 2013 09:47 AM

                                              "brawts" is a new one on me...

                                              1. re: mariacarmen
                                                eatzalot Jul 15, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                "brawts" is nearer to the German.

                                                But I don't remember personally noticing it in the US before, which tends like other cultures to adapt pronunciations, per much of this thread...

                                                1. re: mariacarmen
                                                  mariacarmen Jul 19, 2013 09:54 PM

                                                  wait, i misread this. i looked at "aw" and thought or "ow", for some reason.

                                                  "brots" is what i've always known them as.

                                                2. re: Firegoat
                                                  sandylc Jul 19, 2013 08:18 PM

                                                  Anyone who's been to Minnesota, or especially Wisconsin, knows that "brats" does NOT rhyme with "rats". It should rather rhyme with "rots".

                                                  1. re: sandylc
                                                    Bill Hunt Jul 28, 2013 08:30 PM

                                                    I've never been to MN, and only briefly to WI, but everywhere that I have lived, "brats" have always rhymed with "rots," or very close.

                                                    As those are about the only "hot dogs," that we do, we try to order them from the butcher (may be from MN, or WI?), that way.

                                                    Hunt, who is from the Deep South, but tries to pronounce items, as closely to the original, as is possible.

                                                    1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                      Leonardo Jul 28, 2013 10:42 PM

                                                      Me too. It's about showing respect.

                                                      1. re: Leonardo
                                                        paulj Jul 29, 2013 12:39 AM

                                                        I prefer to show respect to people that I am talking to, as opposed to people in another country who will never hear me.
                                                        Spoken language is primarily a means of communication, not a museum of archaic uses.

                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                          Bill Hunt Aug 1, 2013 09:13 PM

                                                          Actually, I prefer to attempt to show respect to all.


                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                            Leonardo Aug 1, 2013 09:48 PM

                                                            No museum, but how a living people who orginated the term actually speak today. They get my respect regardless of where they are. Irrelevant to me whether or not we meet.

                                                  2. Kris in Beijing Jul 12, 2013 08:59 PM

                                                    I have a number of West Coast [US] friends who say
                                                    whilst I have always said [and think I've always heard]


                                                    And then there's that city in NW China:
                                                    which had I only read, so in my head it was
                                                    Then I met a travelling group, who were visiting
                                                    and I asked them where it was...
                                                    Neither are right, but they were wa-aa-ay closer!

                                                    2 Replies
                                                    1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                      eatzalot Jul 13, 2013 10:38 AM

                                                      "Ah-low-ee" for aloe? That's a new one to me (multi-generation US West coast native who has been all over the W. coast and hearing about aloe for 40 years).

                                                      It suggests a guessed pronunciation of something seen written, or people imitating someone else who did so. Just as I've heard it said (though I've never actually heard it done) that some Americans try to pronounce "banal" like "anal" plus a B -- which sounds VERY strange if you know the word. Banal is a word seldom used in the US generally, so this is a reminder that it pays to CHECK on unfamiliar words (for meaning as well as pronunciation) before putting them into service. Just like learning about any tool before using it.

                                                      Traditionally, using words without actually knowing them implies overreaching, or as some people put it upthread, pretense.

                                                      People used to keep, and routinely use, dictionaries; there are online equivalents, all it takes is the instinct to use them.

                                                      Given that English is notoriously non-phonetic and irregular, and leans heavily on "borrowed" vocabulary, it's inevitable that guessed pronunciations are often wrong.

                                                      (Incidentally Kris, as I'm sure you know, "whilst" is a telltale of UK or Commonwealth English. In the US, "while" is the standard equivalent. That's another thing about English, it isn't just a single tongue.)

                                                      1. re: eatzalot
                                                        Kris in Beijing Jul 13, 2013 11:41 AM

                                                        I have significantly, um, blended my English styles-- raised in the South [US] and not wanting to SOUND Southern, then majoring in British Victorian Literature, then nearly a decade overseas... makes my vocab fairly "divers."

                                                        Thinking it through, the /ahlowee/ people may have all adopted their pronunciation from one former Oregonian who is a dominant homecook and has been in The 'Jing longer than nearly every non-gov American[~20yr].
                                                        She also says fah-gee-tah,

                                                    2. j
                                                      jbsiegel Jul 12, 2013 12:34 PM

                                                      ...and as much as I try, I simply cannot stop pronouncing the thin French pancakes (!) as crayps. I don't know what's wrong with me...

                                                      17 Replies
                                                      1. re: jbsiegel
                                                        mariacarmen Jul 12, 2013 04:27 PM

                                                        oh i do that too! so brutish! shame on me.

                                                        1. re: jbsiegel
                                                          sandylc Jul 12, 2013 04:38 PM

                                                          That's a tough one to shake. While I do usually try to pronounce things correctly to the best of my knowledge, crepes is a word that I really feel pretentious saying with a frenchified pronunciation. Oh, and sort of the same thing with croissants.

                                                          1. re: sandylc
                                                            paulj Jul 12, 2013 04:46 PM

                                                            Do you pretentious like this?

                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                              sandylc Jul 12, 2013 04:53 PM

                                                              It doesn't work...?

                                                              1. re: sandylc
                                                                kpaxonite Jul 13, 2013 11:22 AM

                                                                Yes it does but it is kind of funny to put that link here considering she doesn't pronounce it properly (as a french person would)

                                                                This is the 'Quebec' pronunciation... which is where I live.. and Ive never heard anyone say it that way... if you look on wiki for the parisian one it is a lot better

                                                                1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                  paulj Jul 13, 2013 12:00 PM

                                                                  Yes I intentionally picked the Quebec one. :)

                                                                  Should the paper be pronounced the same way as the pancake or not?

                                                                  What do other countries and languages use? A borrowing from French, or something closer to 'pancake'?

                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                    kpaxonite Jul 13, 2013 01:21 PM


                                                                    I think the first quebec renunciation is far better but almost wrong because she says she says it so slowly she cant pronounce it properly. The first paris one is good.

                                                                    1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                      paulj Jul 13, 2013 01:42 PM

                                                                      But shouldn't we be looking for a Breton pronunciation, not a Parisian one? :)

                                                                      I think my 'Crêpe Suzette' approximates the French. But my 'crepe' (not 'crêpe') is same for paper and pancake. But growing up we called them 'swedish pancakes'.

                                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                                        DeppityDawg Jul 14, 2013 02:54 AM

                                                                        Better yet, the Breton word:

                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                          eatzalot Jul 14, 2013 10:08 AM

                                                                          paulj: "growing up we called them 'swedish pancakes'."

                                                                          The proper Swedish pancake is a little richer, and usually served with lingonberries, IIRC. :-)

                                                                          I grew up in California with crêpes cooked often (which we usually called "French pancakes" unless made into a specialty, like "Suzette"). My father had learned to make them in France. No doubt "French pancakes" was an easy way to distinguish them to us kids, when we were small, from leavened (i.e. regular US) pancakes -- which were made too, but less often, because more complicated than crêpes. (My father's basic crêpe formula, which I've used very successfully for 40 years since: two eggs, a cup of milk, a cup of flour. Whisk or blend 'till smooth, let rest an hour before use. Adjust liquid for consistency as needed.)

                                                                          Many published recipes are ritualistically, shamefully, gratuitously more complicated.

                                                                          Food-historical note: The unleavened pancake is among the very oldest and most international cooked foods (whether dubbed crêpes, blini, tortillas, etc etc). A classic maxim I've heard from Russia translates as "the first [pancake] comes out like a blob," a version of "if at first you don't succeed..."

                                                                          Early human cultures made pastes from whatever grain was available, cooked them flat on hot rocks or whatever, then sat around in groups -- forerunners of today's online food discussions -- to debate what to call them...

                                                                          1. re: eatzalot
                                                                            paulj Jul 14, 2013 11:12 AM

                                                                            My favorite variation on thin pancakes is the '49ers flapjack' from the Original Pancake House chain. I make a close approximation by starting a yeast sponge the night before, and then adding the eggs etc the next morning. This produces a crepe with a bit of tang and a chewier texture.

                                                                            The name suggests the use of a sourdough sponge, and long American history. But most sourdough pancakes are thick like a restaurant buttermilk pancake.

                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                              enhF94 Jul 27, 2013 08:10 AM

                                                                              I've been trying to reverse-engineer the 49ers for years. Help?

                                                                              1. re: enhF94
                                                                                paulj Jul 27, 2013 09:39 AM

                                                                                There are various recipes on the net that claim to replicate them. The best that I've tried starts with a yeast sponge, for example: 2 c flour, 1/4 t yeast, 1-2c water, let to sit overnight.

                                                                                In morning I add in eggs, salt, milk as need to make crepe like batter. Beating in these ingredients deflates the sponge, so sometimes I've added a bit of baking powder (quickly dissolved in water).

                                                                                The thinness comes from the crepe like consistency. Most of the flavor comes from the overnight rise, as does the elasticity (from gluten development).

                                                                                If you have a sourdough starter that could be used instead of yeast.

                                                                    2. re: kpaxonite
                                                                      almond tree Jul 14, 2013 09:34 PM

                                                                      "Ive never heard anyone say it that way"
                                                                      Wow ... I left Quebec many many years ago, but listening to that recording took me straight back. I've never heard a Quebecois say it any other way.
                                                                      When I taught ESL to adults in Montreal, I used to make the Quebecois members of my class roar with laughter by saying: "Toué pis moué, on va manger des crayiipes aux frayiises." ("You and I are going to eat strawberry crepes" -- with a broad Montreal accent ... and yes, my phonetic spelling is imprecise, to say the least.)

                                                                      1. re: almond tree
                                                                        kpaxonite Jul 19, 2013 03:26 PM

                                                                        ahah that's pretty funny... they were laughing because that might be how someone in the deep countryside might say it.. most people in Montreal do not talk like that

                                                                2. re: sandylc
                                                                  globocity Jul 12, 2013 05:26 PM

                                                                  It takes some effort to unlearn pronunciation. When I'm around nonFrench speakers, I find myself making a concerted effort to say "crayp", "kwuhsant". With Spanish, the language of my ancestors, I can't bring myself to utter "bur ree do", "chih pot lay" (the diff in Spanish is subtle--unaspirated /t/ and such."

                                                                3. re: jbsiegel
                                                                  mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 10:24 AM

                                                                  Why not? We do.

                                                                4. jrvedivici Jul 12, 2013 11:12 AM

                                                                  Thanks to the rise in popularity of Kanye West, one of my favorite spices is Kanye Pepper! (Cayenne)

                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                  1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                    Bill Hunt Jul 12, 2013 07:58 PM

                                                                    Kanye West Pepper?

                                                                    That would probably steal the award for "Best Pepper."


                                                                    1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                      jrvedivici Jul 15, 2013 08:10 AM

                                                                      Especially if Taylor Swift Ham is on the microphone

                                                                      1. re: jrvedivici
                                                                        Bill Hunt Jul 15, 2013 07:33 PM

                                                                        Good point, and one that I hope to not see again, but that is just me...


                                                                  2. Paprikaboy Jul 12, 2013 11:04 AM

                                                                    I always try and pronounce salad but somehow it always comes out as I'll have the pork belly please.

                                                                    1. e
                                                                      Ernie Jul 11, 2013 05:52 PM

                                                                      Porchetta (with a hard K, nothing like the German sports car)

                                                                      Panino (the correct singular version of panini)

                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                      1. re: Ernie
                                                                        paulj Jul 11, 2013 06:22 PM

                                                                        When did you learn the correct pronunciations?

                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                          Ernie Jul 12, 2013 10:07 AM

                                                                          I have a good friend from Milan that gently corrected me recently :)

                                                                      2. meatnveg Jul 11, 2013 09:05 AM

                                                                        Having read through all the replies, I am surprised no one pointed the common mispronunciation of just about every bit of Indian food.

                                                                        I guess it's a matter of knowing the correct pronunciation. So here are some:

                                                                        Tikka - Tick-ka, not Teeka

                                                                        Tandoori - Tundoori (like Sun-doori), not Tan-doori (like Fan-doori)

                                                                        Naan - Naahn like Flan, not Nan like Fan

                                                                        Palak - Paaluk not Pallack

                                                                        21 Replies
                                                                        1. re: meatnveg
                                                                          mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 09:40 AM

                                                                          thanks for these - i've never heard anyone say Naan like Fan!

                                                                          1. re: meatnveg
                                                                            Harters Jul 11, 2013 09:54 AM

                                                                            "Naan - Naahn like Flan, not Nan like Fan"

                                                                            Maybe where you are, but where I am "flan" and "fan" are pronounced the same. Short "a".

                                                                            So, it's naan like fan (erm, or flan, van, pan)

                                                                            1. re: Harters
                                                                              paulj Jul 11, 2013 10:02 AM

                                                                              meatnveg probably has a Spanish influenced pronunciation of 'flan' in mind.

                                                                              1. re: paulj
                                                                                mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 03:03 PM

                                                                                that's what i assumed...

                                                                            2. re: meatnveg
                                                                              JungMann Jul 11, 2013 11:51 AM

                                                                              Teeka is one of my pet peeves. It's a phonetic word, no reason to exoticize its pronunciation.

                                                                              1. re: JungMann
                                                                                DeppityDawg Jul 11, 2013 12:55 PM

                                                                                What if I also say "cheeken"?

                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                  mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                  That would make you Spanish speaking.

                                                                                2. re: JungMann
                                                                                  mariacarmen Jul 11, 2013 03:03 PM

                                                                                  totally guilty of exoticizing.

                                                                                  1. re: JungMann
                                                                                    paulj Jul 11, 2013 04:21 PM

                                                                                    Wiki gives the IPA spelling as ʈɪkkaː

                                                                                    It also gives teeka, teekka as alternative English spellings.

                                                                                    A phonetic blog piece about the word, though it does not focus on the 'i'.

                                                                                    His IPA is ʈikkɑː

                                                                                    This Indian cook uses the word multiple times. From that (and others) I agree that the 'i' is short, but more importantly unstressed. The final 'a' gets more stress. But as the blog points out, the 'exotic' quality is in the 'k'

                                                                                    1. re: paulj
                                                                                      JungMann Jul 12, 2013 05:57 AM

                                                                                      If you do a Google search for "chicken tiki," you'll find millions of hits for a mispronunciation that falls like an anvil on my ears. Not as popular a pronunciation as teeka, but pernicious none the less.

                                                                                      With respect to the Indian pronunciation, I don't know if I would describe the final vowel as stressed. The pronunciation of a double consonant probably sounds like stress to English-trained ears, since we tend to combine double consonants.

                                                                                      1. re: JungMann
                                                                                        meatnveg Jul 12, 2013 07:25 PM

                                                                                        Chicken tiki is a completely different thing than Chicken Tikka

                                                                                        1. re: meatnveg
                                                                                          JungMann Jul 15, 2013 10:15 AM

                                                                                          There might very well be a Trader Vic's style recipe for tiki chicken, but I'm referring to the "chicken tiki masala" recipes on Google, not to mention all the guests who have accompanied me for Indian telling me that they love "chicken tiki."

                                                                                    2. re: JungMann
                                                                                      paulj Jul 11, 2013 05:43 PM

                                                                                      Given that chicken tikka masala is a British national dish, how is 'tikka' pronounced there?


                                                                                    3. re: meatnveg
                                                                                      Hobbert Jul 11, 2013 05:46 PM

                                                                                      The first time I asked my husband if he wanted naan, I called it naan bread because I knew he had no idea what it was. He looked at me like I was nuts and I realized he must've heard it as non-bread. We still laugh about that.

                                                                                      1. re: Hobbert
                                                                                        pine time Jul 12, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                                                        That's getting akin to chai tea!

                                                                                        1. re: pine time
                                                                                          paulj Jul 12, 2013 11:08 AM

                                                                                          Except 'chai tea' has a commonly accepted meaning in English - tea that is spiced in an Indian style.

                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                            meatnveg Jul 12, 2013 07:26 PM

                                                                                            except its not. Chai Tea is the western world is what is called Masala Chai in India (cloves, cardamom etal).

                                                                                            Indian Tea is like english tea (milk, sugar)

                                                                                            1. re: meatnveg
                                                                                              paulj Jul 12, 2013 07:40 PM

                                                                                              I wrote 'spiced in an Indian style', not 'the Indian style'. I had Masala Chai in mind.

                                                                                              Why did you use 'chai' in one case, and 'tea' in the other? Why not 'masala tea' or 'spiced tea', or 'Indian chai'?

                                                                                              1. re: paulj
                                                                                                meatnveg Jul 12, 2013 09:48 PM

                                                                                                Because 'Indian' is an english word as is Tea, whereas Masala and Chai are both hindi words.

                                                                                                1. re: paulj
                                                                                                  Kalivs Aug 1, 2013 09:32 PM

                                                                                                  The one that really blows my mind is chai coffee

                                                                                                  1. re: Kalivs
                                                                                                    DeppityDawg Aug 1, 2013 09:50 PM

                                                                                                    With nuts and crackers. Sweet!

                                                                                      2. Atomic76 Jul 10, 2013 05:09 PM

                                                                                        It drives me absolutely nuts when people pronounce espresso as "eXpresso". There's not even an X in the word!

                                                                                        Also, in my neck of the woods, it's common for people to call sandwiches "sangwiches" - which also grinds on my nerves.

                                                                                        4 Replies
                                                                                        1. re: Atomic76
                                                                                          paulj Jul 10, 2013 05:36 PM


                                                                                          Doesn't it come from 'express'?

                                                                                          The French word is 'Expresso', Spanish 'Café expreso', Latin 'Cafea expressa',

                                                                                          1. re: Atomic76
                                                                                            jbsiegel Jul 10, 2013 05:43 PM

                                                                                            ...particularly when it's the Starbucks employees doing the mispronunciation!

                                                                                            1. re: Atomic76
                                                                                              Bob W Jul 11, 2013 08:40 AM

                                                                                              You can blame Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs, "Sugar Shack" (1963):

                                                                                              "Expresso coffee tastes mighty good...." 8<D

                                                                                              1. re: Atomic76
                                                                                                eatzalot Jul 11, 2013 08:59 AM

                                                                                                paulj, yes indeed "espresso" does relate to "express" as we say in English, so the mistake is natural.

                                                                                                The coffee extract is "expressed," one of those classic physical-process words like macerate, infuse, percolate (which means to filter through - the word was misused for an old class of coffee makers many of us remember, technically pump-percolators). If the coffee at issue here were popularized by anglophones , it might well have been named "expresso."

                                                                                                But it was popularized by Italians. Atomic76 is right.

                                                                                              2. j
                                                                                                jbsiegel Jul 9, 2013 12:17 PM

                                                                                                It's not a food, but does anybody know the correct pronunciation of Melamine?

                                                                                                I always thought it was a long "i" (like in "eye") in the last syllable. I was in Williams Sonoma today, and they pronounced the last syllable "mean."

                                                                                                14 Replies
                                                                                                1. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                  LindaWhit Jul 9, 2013 01:37 PM

                                                                                                  I've always said "Mel-ah-meen".

                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                    eatzalot Jul 10, 2013 11:22 AM

                                                                                                    That's US-standard. Like atropine, benzedrine, scopolamine. If you see what I mean.

                                                                                                  2. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                    Googs Jul 9, 2013 02:50 PM

                                                                                                    I thought melamine was a legal, but limited food additive in a few countries.

                                                                                                    1. re: Googs
                                                                                                      LindaWhit Jul 9, 2013 04:44 PM

                                                                                                      China used it in poor quality baby formula powder and fish and livestock feed to increase the supposed amount of protein. I guess melamine is still allowed in minute quantities in certain foods, per the FDA. THAT'S not very reassuring!


                                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                        Googs Jul 9, 2013 08:56 PM

                                                                                                        It wasn't so much China as it was Nestle, wasn't it? Do their US products contain it I wonder?

                                                                                                      2. re: Googs
                                                                                                        Wahooty Jul 9, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                                                        Perhaps legal, but it registers as protein during analysis even though it is not protein, has no nutritional value, and is considered "harmful if swallowed." It's not food for man or beast.

                                                                                                        And however you pronounce it, I hate having chopsticks made of it. Not for health reasons, but because they are so damned slippery when eating soup noodles.

                                                                                                        1. re: Wahooty
                                                                                                          Googs Jul 9, 2013 08:59 PM

                                                                                                          Yeah, it's pretty ugly stuff in every way possible. I mused because jbsiegel opened with, "It's not a food".

                                                                                                          1. re: Googs
                                                                                                            paulj Jul 9, 2013 09:13 PM

                                                                                                            I've been eating off of melamine since I was a kid. Some of my favorite spoons (cooking and eating) are made from it. Its main disadvantage is that it can't be used in a microwave.

                                                                                                            The use of a powdered form of melamine in food was (is) just an attempt to game the system. The prominent case where it was blamed for pet deaths, was the result of some Chinese gluten producers trying to raise the apparent protein level of their product. Some analytic methods for measuring protein (based, I think on nitrogen level) are fooled by the presence of melamine.

                                                                                                            I believe melamine in milk (most likely powdered) was confined to the domestic Chinese market.

                                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                                              Googs Jul 9, 2013 09:30 PM

                                                                                                              I thought I recalled the FDA approving it for use. Here it is and it seems Nestle's in the thick of it again. I guess at low enough levels it doesn't sicken babies or kill pets. What possible reason could there be for it being present at all?

                                                                                                              1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                paulj Jul 9, 2013 09:42 PM

                                                                                                                "Melamine may be used in the manufacturing of packaging for food products, but is not FDA-approved for direct addition to human food or animal feeds marketed in the U.S."


                                                                                                                Also the tableware is actually melamine-formaldehydetable. Some melamine may migrate from containers to food, but at levels well below those that FDA considers toxic.

                                                                                                              2. re: paulj
                                                                                                                eatzalot Jul 10, 2013 05:54 PM

                                                                                                                paulj: "... melamine in food was (is) just an attempt to game the system... Some analytic methods for measuring protein (based, I think on nitrogen level) are fooled..."

                                                                                                                A spectacular case of similar chemical gaming, with which I'm pretty familiar and was on the scene during some of its consequences, ties in with the Central European white wines elsewhere in this thread.

                                                                                                                Basics of the 1985 Austrian wine scandal are in wine reference books, but the exact game attempted at the time is much less widely known. Michael Pronay, a respected food-wine editor in Vienna, clarified it online several years back.

                                                                                                                Some unscrupulous winemakers watered their wine to enhance profits, using an additive to fool a govt. test that checked the dissolved content in an effort to prevent such gaming. (That specific motive is what's missing from most public accounts of the scandal.)

                                                                                                                Unfortunately for their national industry, the adulterant used was diethylene glycol (DEG), which suffers from an image problem. Though not recommended for drinking, DEG is FAR less toxic than the better-known ethylene glycol (EG), used in car anti-freeze (by standard LD50 lethal-dose measure, DEG is half as toxic as alcohol).

                                                                                                                Journalists however confused the two in 1985, wrongly and irresponsibly proclaiming that EG was used. This killed Austria's wine export market for some years, despite no human illness actually traced to the adulterated wines. Contrasting for instance with the 1981 Spanish olive-oil case that caused hundreds of deaths.

                                                                                                                1. re: eatzalot
                                                                                                                  INDIANRIVERFL Jul 11, 2013 07:33 AM

                                                                                                                  Per the Stars & Stripes paper, the confiscated wine was ultimately used to deice roads in Austria.

                                                                                                                  I will let the experts to verify.

                                                                                                                2. re: paulj
                                                                                                                  cowboyardee Jul 10, 2013 06:17 PM

                                                                                                                  You are correct. Just to add:

                                                                                                                  There were two big issues with melamine in pet food and baby formula that resulted in a really tragic outcome from a chemical that's not normally highly toxic (though I wouldn't go intentionally eating the stuff, and I'm not defending anyone adding it to food).

                                                                                                                  - At least in the case of the baby formula, the melamine used apparently contained cyanuric acid. Cyanuric acid and melamine form crystals when mixed, and those crystals cause kidney failure.

                                                                                                                  - It's obvious when you think about it, but both pet food and baby formula often make up the entirety of the pet or baby's diet. And when your entire diet is contaminated, the potential for harm is far greater than normal.

                                                                                                                  1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                    Googs Jul 11, 2013 11:57 AM

                                                                                                                    The commonality I always think of is that neither pet nor baby can verbally complain. Owner or parent, you'd think the illness came from elsewhere and just keep buying the stuff. It's evil of the highest order. Then again, that's Nestle for ya.

                                                                                                        2. applgrl Jul 7, 2013 07:55 PM

                                                                                                          Viognier. After the first glass I can't ever get it right.

                                                                                                          1. v
                                                                                                            valmariejackson Jul 7, 2013 07:52 PM

                                                                                                            Mangetout (French)

                                                                                                            its supposed to be "mawnzh-TOO", not "men-ge-tout" as I had been saying .. . in the Europe they call it that, in the US its just called sugar peas!

                                                                                                            5 Replies
                                                                                                            1. re: valmariejackson
                                                                                                              Harters Jul 8, 2013 08:21 AM

                                                                                                              In the UK part of Europe (and I think in Ireland), we just pronounce it as the French would say the two words "mange tout" (eat all)

                                                                                                              1. re: valmariejackson
                                                                                                                Hobbert Jul 8, 2013 09:01 AM

                                                                                                                I remember seeing that for the first time in a British cookbook and had to google it to figure out what it was. I was hoping for some exotic, mysterious ingredient. At least now I know how to say it! Now I just need to figure out how to slide it into conversation...

                                                                                                                1. re: Hobbert
                                                                                                                  Harters Jul 8, 2013 09:14 AM

                                                                                                                  Hobbert - not to be confused with "sugarsnaps" which you may also see in a British cookbook. These are also "eat everything" peas but look more like a normal pea pod. That said, my partner tells me that she's often seen Scandanavians eating normal pea pods whole.

                                                                                                                  1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                    Hobbert Jul 8, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                    Yep, it's a normal thing to eat snap peas whole here, too. They're better when they're young but the more mature ones are fine too if you pull off the fiber. Snap peas are a standard vegetable platter offering at casual get togetherness. According to Wikipedia, snow peas are also included in the mangetout label which is odd to me. Plus, I just think snow peas are wretched things.

                                                                                                                    1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                      Caitlin McGrath Jul 8, 2013 04:56 PM

                                                                                                                      In American English, mangetout are known as snow peas, and yes, distinct from snap peas and regular green shelling peas (which are also often called English peas here, for some reason).

                                                                                                                2. lafouchow Jul 7, 2013 05:50 PM

                                                                                                                  Shallot. I learned to say it so that it rhymes with"a lot". People on the food shows pronounce it so it rhymes with "Mallet".

                                                                                                                  I think my pronunciation is correct, bit I'm outnumbered.

                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: lafouchow
                                                                                                                    grayelf Jul 7, 2013 06:03 PM

                                                                                                                    I say it your way too, lafouchow. You go!

                                                                                                                    1. re: lafouchow
                                                                                                                      sandylc Jul 7, 2013 06:44 PM

                                                                                                                      I'm with you. Shallot, a lot. It rhymes.

                                                                                                                      1. re: lafouchow
                                                                                                                        paulj Jul 7, 2013 06:49 PM

                                                                                                                        shows both. The difference isn't so much of the vowel as on the stress. The unaccented syllable gets the indistinct schwa.

                                                                                                                      2. Bob W Jul 7, 2013 03:40 PM

                                                                                                                        Another favorite wine -- I could listen to this lady all day. 8<D


                                                                                                                        1. q
                                                                                                                          Querencia Jul 6, 2013 11:00 PM

                                                                                                                          This thread reminds me of when I was in a London restaurant and asked for a glass of water using the standard American pronunciation WAH-ter. The server was a young immigrant whose first language was not English and who had heard only British pronunciations, WOE-tah being the upper-class version and WAH-er, with a glottal stop, being the lower-class version. So her response to WAH-ter was "Don't you know how to speak English?".

                                                                                                                          1. Bob W Jul 6, 2013 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                            Here is a lovely dessert wine. Would love to know how to pronounce it:


                                                                                                                            3 Replies
                                                                                                                            1. re: Bob W
                                                                                                                              mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 02:21 AM

                                                                                                                              ooh, a real puzzler! the first two words are easy (sha-toh dwa-zhee), but i have no experience with the Daëne. Is it like "Dane"?

                                                                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                maria lorraine Jul 7, 2013 03:16 AM

                                                                                                                                The Daëne vowels kinda curve around and go through your nose. It's actually two syllables:


                                                                                                                                1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                  linguafood Jul 7, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                  More like Diane, I think.

                                                                                                                              2. meatnveg Jul 5, 2013 07:01 PM

                                                                                                                                Pho. I know how to say it correctly, but I say FO 99% of the time

                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                1. re: meatnveg
                                                                                                                                  eatzalot Jul 8, 2013 10:12 AM

                                                                                                                                  Pho is my favorite example too. Much of the problem occurs because it isn't, in fact, spelled "pho." The O has one of those Vietnamese diacritical marks specifying a particular vowel sound. The mark is unavailable in many online English character sets, therefore confusingly omitted.

                                                                                                                                  Interesting, slightly clouded history of the soup itself -- which is around a century old, dates to near peak of French colonial influence, coincident also with expansion of cattle's role from draft animals to food livestock in Vietnam -- leads many (Vietnamese) experts whom I've read, or talked to, to attribute the soup as a local adaptation of the French beef soup pot-au-feu; anyway a mainstream Vietnamese pronunc. of the [properly typeset] "pho" closely resembles standard French pronunc. of "feu."

                                                                                                                                  A thread like this is inevitable given that so many food terms get imported into English, a language already far from phonetic!

                                                                                                                                2. a
                                                                                                                                  aasg Jul 5, 2013 12:36 PM

                                                                                                                                  Ditto on quinoa. I used to pronounce it quinn-oh-ah.

                                                                                                                                  Phyllo/filo. (I said fi-lo rather then fee-lo.)

                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                  1. re: aasg
                                                                                                                                    mariacarmen Jul 5, 2013 09:34 PM

                                                                                                                                    it's keen-oh-ah. when said fast, it sounds like keenwah. if it was keenwah, it would be spelled quinua or quinwa.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                      paulj Jul 5, 2013 10:27 PM

                                                                                                                                      Quinoa (/ˈkiːnwɑː/ or /kɨˈnoʊ.ə/, Spanish: quinua, from Quechua: kinwa


                                                                                                                                      (Del quechua kinúwa o kínua).

                                                                                                                                      scientific name
                                                                                                                                      Chenopodium quinoa

                                                                                                                                      The main thing is, get the 'qui' as in Quito (or mosquito).

                                                                                                                                      The Quechua spelling(s) is probably a good phonetic one, based on a recent orthography, not one that that has had 600+ years of evolution. However the word may differ slightly among Quechua dialects.

                                                                                                                                      Spanish doesn't normally use the letter 'k', using 'qui' instead. English on the other hand has its own quirky vowel system.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine Jul 5, 2013 10:38 PM

                                                                                                                                        Thank you.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                          mariacarmen Jul 5, 2013 10:55 PM

                                                                                                                                          Yes - "Del quechua kinúwa o kínua" - this is as i was saying - three syllables, no? "K" is commonly used in Andean spellings in place of the "Qu". I was in La Paz, Bolivia where I still have family, 2 years ago and "K" was abundant on street signs in words i would have spelled with "Qu".

                                                                                                                                    2. f
                                                                                                                                      ferventfoodie Jul 5, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                      Still have trouble with "gnocchi" , even after making it in
                                                                                                                                      two different classes in Italy where they tried to get me to pronounce it properly. Don't know if I don't hear it correctly
                                                                                                                                      or I'm phsyically incapable of making the sound (can't roll
                                                                                                                                      an "r" either after years of coaching from Scottish family)
                                                                                                                                      but just can't seem to get it right.

                                                                                                                                      3 Replies
                                                                                                                                      1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                        linguafood Jul 5, 2013 11:07 AM

                                                                                                                                        Nyo'cky comes pretty close.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                          pedalfaster Jul 5, 2013 11:48 AM

                                                                                                                                          Hey, as long as it tastes knee-ok (<<<bad joke) I'm good.

                                                                                                                                          Seriously, that fact that you are travelling, taking classes and making pasta from scratch, is good enough for me (and should be for many others).

                                                                                                                                          Cook ON, and buon appetito.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                            paulj Jul 5, 2013 12:50 PM

                                                                                                                                            You grew up learning to make (and recognize) one set of sounds (the English phonemes). One of the hardest parts of learning another language is to learn its distinctive sounds.

                                                                                                                                          2. Bill Hunt Jul 3, 2013 09:26 PM

                                                                                                                                            I am from Mississippi, so the list is too long to even contemplate, and especially when I am in Italy, or France.

                                                                                                                                            I will just not go into that.


                                                                                                                                            1. JungMann Jul 2, 2013 11:49 AM

                                                                                                                                              Patatjes oorlog. Ever since undergoing throat surgery my trills just aren't the same.

                                                                                                                                              1. j
                                                                                                                                                jjw Jul 1, 2013 04:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                I just read through this thread, and wanted to check the pronunciation of various words being thrown around. I found this great site that seems to have them all:
                                                                                                                                                Just type in the word and the guys says it for you.

                                                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                1. re: jjw
                                                                                                                                                  almond tree Jul 1, 2013 09:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                  Interesting site, but I see his pronunciation is off on some non-English words. Sounds like he is reading them from a phonetic version and he sometimes accents the wrong syllable.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jjw
                                                                                                                                                    sandylc Jul 2, 2013 09:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                    I enjoy this website frequently for a different view of pronunciations in English. It also shows me that the British have a few issues of their own here; it isn't just Americans who can butcher languages. We just happen to be viewed as a fun target.

                                                                                                                                                  2. i
                                                                                                                                                    INDIANRIVERFL Jul 1, 2013 11:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                    Anything in French. I have been killing that language forever. Trying to impress a date, I ordered a Boreducks wine to go with our meal. The waiter gently and discretely corrected me when he brought the bottle to our table.

                                                                                                                                                    My ears still get red thinking about it 4 decades later.

                                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                    1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                      mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 10:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                      That is hysterical.

                                                                                                                                                    2. b
                                                                                                                                                      Bkeats Jul 1, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                      I know how to "properly" pronounce almost every type of food I eat. I just refuse to use the "proper" pronunciation for all of the words. Why? Because I'm here in the states and I'll speak like I everyone else. You think the French worry about how they pronounce "Le Hamburger?"

                                                                                                                                                      Now I think I will go get me a gy-row with a glass of peanut nwa.

                                                                                                                                                      52 Replies
                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                        girloftheworld Jul 1, 2013 11:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                        good point. my fencing coach use to always "Giada" us . We would go eat at a simple pizza place and he would have to order with precise pronuncication that just made the gum chewing high school waitress silently say "what an ass" .

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                          JDAWG Jul 5, 2013 07:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                          I live in Canada, so there is an added level of complexity given there are millions of native french speakers, many who don't know much or any English. No matter where in the country you live, you will be exposed to enough French to at least know how to pronounce French words properly, or pretty close, so it really sticks out when someone does not say them correctly. But there are still some words that have an "English" pronunciation, whether anglicised recently or not, they are accepted, widely used, and I feel no need to change.

                                                                                                                                                          The best example is the pronunciation of city of Montreal. I do not use the French pronunciation of Montreal and never will. It amazes me there are people who believe you should as absolutely no one expects a French Canadian to pronounce cities with English names the same way as English speakers. It's obvious pretension to suggest it.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: JDAWG
                                                                                                                                                            mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 10:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                            ^5. I'm from Montreal and fully bilingual. When I speak French, I pronounce it in French. When I speak English, I pronounce it in English (which is Muntreal BTW). Taking the Greyhound back from NYC one time, the driver insisted on using the French pronunciation. Even the francophones were rolling their eyes.

                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                          Ruth Lafler Jul 1, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                          Well said. I always think it's pretentious when my mother tries to correct my pronunciation when I'm pronouncing a word the way it is commonly pronounced in the US.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                            Leonardo Jul 1, 2013 06:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                            That's precisely my point. Americans saying PInot Noir as "Nwah" are not only wrong, they are pretentious. By not even trying, and using a conventional American accent, it would be far more correct AND unpretentious..

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                              paulj Jul 1, 2013 06:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                              Why do you claim they are pretentious? People can make wrong guesses without ulterior motives.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                globocity Jul 1, 2013 09:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                Very good point, paulj!

                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                almond tree Jul 1, 2013 09:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                But how would you pronounce "noir" with a "conventional American accent"? To rhyme with "lawyer"?

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                  maria lorraine Jul 1, 2013 11:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                  Noir has been assimilated into American English: Film noir, Pinot Noir.

                                                                                                                                                                  My perspective is that we honor a culture by pronouncing its words correctly. It's not pretense; it's respect. Same goes for spelling.

                                                                                                                                                                  But I understand how the proper pronunciation of a foreign word may mean one is not understood, the same as using a five-dollar vocabulary word. The speaker intuits context and his listener, and speaks accordingly.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                    paulj Jul 2, 2013 12:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    OK, 'noir' is an artsy way of saying 'black' or 'dark'. What is 'pinot'?

                                                                                                                                                                    Do German speakers honor, or dishonor, French culture by calling the same grapes Blauburgunder or Spätburgunder. What about the Italian Pinot nero?

                                                                                                                                                                    To me 'correct' pronunciation is a communication issue. What is the clearest of getting my intended meaning across to my audience? I'v never had occasion to talk to a French speaker about wine, so I don't worry about someone being offended (or dishonored) by my faulty pronunciation of 'noir'.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                      grayelf Jul 2, 2013 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                      I like to try to pronounce non-English words as close to the correct way as I can. But sometimes you completely lose the meaning: when my parents came back from Indonesia the first time, my mum said the name of one of the islands the "proper" way and no one knew what she was on about. Apparently the v in Java is pronounced like a w! Can you imagine if we all started calling coffee jawa, LOL.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                        Firegoat Jul 3, 2013 05:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        Welcome to my new Coffee Shop ... Jawa the Hutt.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                          Googs Jul 3, 2013 06:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          We'd all sound like Baba Wawa.

                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen Jul 1, 2013 11:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                        nwar. as opposed to nwah.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                          aasg Jul 6, 2013 03:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Definitely not how you say noir...

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: aasg
                                                                                                                                                                            mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 02:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            no, it's not. i was responding to almond tree.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                          Jerseygirl111 Jul 1, 2013 11:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Perhaps there is confusion with this because noir is in pretty common use in English such as "film noir" or "drakkar noir." I guess I usually hear it as no-are, but said quickly noarr, like the ar in ark.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                            Bkeats Jul 2, 2013 04:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            I was trying to figure the same thing out.


                                                                                                                                                                            What's conventional when you're butchering someone else's language?

                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                            DeppityDawg Jul 2, 2013 05:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                            You are correct to suggest that the "r" is not silent in this word in French, but one might disagree that it is "far more correct" to pronounce it as a conventional American "r". I would actually say that most Anericans are better off saying "nwah" and "bong swah" and "oh-vwah" if they haven't mastered the French pronunciation. Nothing sticks out more (in a bad way) in American accents than the "r".

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                              almond tree Jul 2, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                              Seems to me like both "nwar" and "nwah" are not exactly wrong and not exactly right but if you split the difference, you'll come pretty close.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                sandylc Jul 2, 2013 09:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                We need a thumbs down option! ;-(

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                  Billy33 Jul 5, 2013 02:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                  Just had a giggle to myself because we New Zealanders would pronounce the 'Noir' as 'nwah' because we tend (like the English) to drop the 'r' sound at the end of words that end in r. Therefore, pronouncing non-English food/drink terms also depends on which English-speaking country you're from!

                                                                                                                                                                                  Also, why do Americans pronounce Parmesan as 'parma-zhan'? I can understand that pronunciation if you were saying Parmigiano Reggiano but why apply it to the anglicised word 'Parmesan'.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Billy33
                                                                                                                                                                                    mbfant Jul 5, 2013 07:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                    Good question about parma-zhan. Drives me crazy too. I think it is because they don't grasp/accept that Parmesan is an English word and are trying to make it sound foreign. I don't know why they do it. Of course, the zh sound would be wrong in the Italian form parmigiano, which is a g, like giraffe.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                      DeppityDawg Jul 5, 2013 08:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      I really doubt that people are trying to make the word sound foreign. They just think it's pronounced that way. But, depending on how long the "zh" pronunciation has been around, it could be because it was originally recognized as a French adaptation of an Italian word. And in many cases, where Italian has the "dzh" sound (gennaio, giovane, Giacomo, coraggio), French has the simpler "zh" sound (janvier, jeune, Jacques, courage).

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Jul 5, 2013 08:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Most of us pronounce words in the way that we are used to hearing them (possibly years ago). We don't consciously think, 'this is Italian so I should pronounce it that way', or this word is 3/4 of the way toward being a full English word ...

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Billy33
                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Jul 5, 2013 09:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        Maybe for the same reason groceries is pronounced grosheries in most parts of the US. Beats me.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                          mariacarmen Jul 5, 2013 10:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          whaaa? who does that?

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Jul 5, 2013 11:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Almost everyone I know. Maybe an east coast thang? Or everyone I know is somehow related to "Shean" Connery :-D

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                              small h Jul 5, 2013 12:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              I've lived on the East Coast all my life, and I can't recall ever hearing the word pronounced "grosheries." The middle syllable gets lost - it sounds like "grossrees" - but it's definitely an "s," not a "sh." Unless the speaker is drunk.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 01:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Same here. Grew up in NJ, lived in central PA, and now in the Boston area. It's always groceries, *not* grosheries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood Jul 5, 2013 02:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Huh. Ok, I'll pay more attention in the next few days. Maybe I'm the one who's drunk '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                    cayjohan Jul 5, 2013 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm in the Midwest (MN), and I rarely hear anything *but* the "grosheries" pronunciation, or honestly, the truncated "grosh-rees." Always makes me think of Foster Brooks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: cayjohan
                                                                                                                                                                                                      LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 02:37 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      LOL! I remember Foster Brooks. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                      So maybe it's a Midwestern thing, and not a Northeastern/East Coast pronunciation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                        sandylc Jul 5, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        CAUGHT! Wow, didn't see that one coming...just when I was almost finished learning to say "candidate" rather than "cannidate".

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Always room for more self improvement, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think I speak/pronounce words pretty well. But I am guilty on the "grosheries" front.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'll begin working on that one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        p.s. Born and raised in the Midwest. Still live in the upper Midwest. (Refuse to call Minnesota the Midwest.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sandylc
                                                                                                                                                                                                          cayjohan Jul 6, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm so *caught* on this one too, sandy. If I read the word, I hear it in my head as "grocery." If I were to read, out loud, a passage containing the word, I would pronounce it "grocery." But in conversation if I say "Hey, we need to make out a list for the grocery store, it always comes out "groshery."

                                                                                                                                                                                                          My son, when young, once asked me what "in your *grosser's* freezer" meant. He had some fanciful five-year-old ideas of what charmingly "gross" things were lurking in freezers everywhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: cayjohan
                                                                                                                                                                                                        girloftheworld Jul 5, 2013 02:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        here in Texas they all just fixin to go to da store

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                          cayjohan Jul 6, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Folks in my small hometown always went "downt the groshery".

                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                        LindaWhit Jul 5, 2013 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's those late night poker parties. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood Jul 5, 2013 03:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          That musht be it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                          small h Jul 5, 2013 06:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          <Maybe I'm the one who's drunk '-)>

                                                                                                                                                                                                          There's no shshame in that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      JungMann Jul 5, 2013 10:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Grosheries" is a pronunciation I didn't know existed until a couple months ago when The Atlantic posted a university survey on American English.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                        LindaWhit Jul 6, 2013 07:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        VERY interesting, JM - it looks like the "grosheries" pronunciation with the "sh" is as prevalent in New England as is the "groceries" with just the "s".

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am curious, however, what the "Other" pronunciation might be that also seems to be said in this area. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                          JungMann Jul 6, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are a lot of "other" pronunciations that had me scratching my head for hours. I also wasted a good half hour repeating the word "pecan" to myself to try and figure out if I say it one of the "weird" ways on the survey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                            grayelf Jul 6, 2013 10:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I favour pee-kan. The long A on the end (pih-khan) sounds a bit weird to my BC-born-and-raised ears.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                              mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 02:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              i'm a pih-khan gal!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                grayelf Jul 7, 2013 09:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                And it sounds mighty fine on ya!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Becca Porter Jul 6, 2013 06:03 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    We do it in Louisiana. One of those things you say because everyone else does?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Becca Porter
                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood Jul 6, 2013 09:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yep. I'm not a native speaker and so tend to assimilate my pronunciation according to my surroundings.... which means when I'm surrounded by Brits, my diction becomes more British.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm weird like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gastronomos Jul 6, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        "...my pronunciation according to my surroundings.... "

                                                                                                                                                                                                        you ain't the only one that does that I assure you! :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Gastronomos
                                                                                                                                                                                                          INDIANRIVERFL Jul 7, 2013 09:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ich auch. Old Chap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Kris in Beijing Jul 12, 2013 08:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      When we returned to the Southern US from Korea, my then-7yr old wanted to know why her Nona needed to visit the "Go See Store."

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course, then, that's what we still call it in our family. To the point that in emails we abbreviate to GC Store...

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Bkeats
                                                                                                                                                                                                AmyH Jul 1, 2013 01:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                I've found that on the occasions I do try to properly pronounce a word in a restaurant, the waiter doesn't know what I'm saying. It's either because I'm still not pronouncing it correctly, or they're just not expecting to hear it that way and have gotten used to the American way it is pronounced. If I say it a second time they usually get it.

                                                                                                                                                                                              3. c
                                                                                                                                                                                                cresyd Jul 1, 2013 01:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Macaron - I have now been taught the right way but really can't shake the macaroon pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. j
                                                                                                                                                                                                  jbsiegel Jun 29, 2013 05:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Pronounced Moet wrong (mo-AY) for the longest time. Finally went on a tour of Chandon where they corrected us. It's mwet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  10 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                    LindaWhit Jun 29, 2013 05:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    OK, there's one I didn't know. I've always pronounced it mo-AY. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                      jbsiegel Jun 29, 2013 05:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      What's funny is when I order it in a restaurant/bar. Sometimes they look at me like I'm crazy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Googs Jun 29, 2013 08:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You just totally wrecked a Queen song for me. I think I'll practice the Wahooty theory on this one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Leonardo Jun 30, 2013 08:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can't believe no one has mentioned Pinot Noir. Hurts my ears hearing "Nwah". Why do people assume that all French consonants are silent? The "r" is there, just not the hard American "r".

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Leonardo
                                                                                                                                                                                                          paulj Jun 30, 2013 09:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Digging around a bit, I find that that final 'r' is called a ' rhotic'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "^5 The French rhotic has a wide range of realizations: the uvular fricatives [χ] and [ʁ] (the latter also realized as an approximant), the uvular trill [ʀ], the alveolar trill [r], and the alveolar tap [ɾ]. These are all recognized as the phoneme /r/,[6] but most of them (all except [ʁ] and [χ]) are considered dialectal."

                                                                                                                                                                                                          English has the alveolar tap [ɾ], but not ʁ . We can't help but trip over unfamiliar phonemes like this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          My rule of thumb for pronouncing unfamiliar French is to drop the last half of the letters, and mangle the rest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                            INDIANRIVERFL Jul 1, 2013 12:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Finally learned how to pronounce my favorite bubbly while touring the cellars. Tit on Jay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              M. Taittinger says 'Tat on zhay"

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                almond tree Jul 6, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                No. he doesn't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: jbsiegel
                                                                                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen Jul 1, 2013 11:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        i think it's actually closer to moette, said quickly, which gives you the appearance (ahem) of saying mwet.


                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                          INDIANRIVERFL Jul 2, 2013 07:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          We were the only Americans in a group of Germans. Maybe that is the correct German pronunciation of Taittinger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. t
                                                                                                                                                                                                        TMT1977 Jun 29, 2013 02:32 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                        2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: TMT1977
                                                                                                                                                                                                          grayelf Jun 29, 2013 05:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I came late to the wonder that is the macaron. The first time I saw it in print I thought it was a typo for macaroon (which BTW I have always hated as a sweet). So I was kind of taken aback when Gordon, Graham and Joe were all banging on about "macaroons" in a recent Masterchef US elimination challenge which was to make great macarons. Serves me right for watching Masterchef, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                            paulj Jun 29, 2013 06:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            One is an early borrowing from French, the other a recent borrowing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            " Recipes for macaroons (also spelled "mackaroon," "maccaroon" and "mackaroom") appear in recipe books at least as early as 1725 (Robert Smith's Court Cookery, or the Complete English Cook)."

                                                                                                                                                                                                            'macaroni' has the same Italian roots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "The -oon ending was conventional in 15c.-17c. English to add emphasis to borrowings of French nouns ending in stressed -on."

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. f
                                                                                                                                                                                                          ferventfoodie Jun 28, 2013 08:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not really a mispronunciation because apparently both are
                                                                                                                                                                                                          accepted but when we were kids, my friend and I argued
                                                                                                                                                                                                          over the word scone. We are both of Scottish heritage
                                                                                                                                                                                                          but her family said it like stone and mine like gone. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                          wasn't until much more recently (and we're both in our 60s)
                                                                                                                                                                                                          that we realized our relatives immigrated from the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                          town, so it probably wasn't a regional difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          18 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                            paulj Jun 28, 2013 09:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I asked the maid in dulcet tone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            To order me a buttered scone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            The silly girl has been and gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            And ordered me a buttered scone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            discusses the patterns of those two pronunciations

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ferventfoodie Jun 29, 2013 11:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the link - love the poem!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Leonardo Jun 30, 2013 08:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Depends on the region. Could be scon, scone, or scoone!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just Visiting Aug 6, 2013 05:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Scone. One of the words I took the trouble to learn to say the way it is said where the food item originated. SCAHN. And people in DC - an area full of highly educated people - correct me and tell me it is SKONE. Same thing with GYRO. ROOIBOS. Which admittedly depends on whether the drinker in question is an Afrikaaner (Ruy-boss, with a very short Ruy that almost sounds like Wry) or British (Roy-boss). It is an Afrikaans word but my husband's family is British so that was how I first learned it. Not that it matters. No one in the U.S. has any clue what I am saying anyway. Then there is the "y" in yucca which is sort of "j" sound. And it is NOT Jucka, but jooka. And again, except in certain restaurants, no one has a clue. So I just give up. It still makes me crazy when national TV news anchors say things like junta instead of "hunta" or llama instead of "yama" because they are paid enough to know better. No wonder Americans butcher the languages of other countries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paulj Aug 6, 2013 08:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ordering a pomegranate and cranberry SCAHN at Starbucks would be, IMO, the height of pretentiousness.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are dialectical variations in the pronunciation of 'y' and 'll'. We discussed this a month ago in this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 04:04 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And here I thought I was being respectful of other languages. Not pretentious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You wouldn't want to be pretentious by ordering a SCAHN along with your Venti Latte from your barrista. Gimme a cuppajoe Joe, buddy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is it pretentious to order FREET instead of FRIGHTS? Fwah grah instead of foy grass? Then why is it pretentious to order a SCAHN?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, there are variations in the pronunciation of "y" and "ll" - as it is often said, South American countries are divided by a common language. My friends in Colombia sternly instruct me to pronounce both as a "j" while those in Ecuador laugh at me if I do that. However, in no South American country that I've been in - and I've been in almost all of them multiple times - is "ll" pronounced as the letter L. Oddly, people who know enough to say "Me llamo..." with the y or j sound - to introduce themselves - I've NEVER heard "Me lamo" with the l sound - will still call the animal a "lama" with the L sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My husband is an English-speaker from South Africa where the word is scahn. Is he being pretentious by saying the word they way he said it for 30 plus years before moving to the U.S.? He also says packet (of chips, for instance), tomahto sauce (for catsup), and car park for parking lot. He pronounces filet (feelay) as phil-it. Sometimes in restaurants or stores I have to "translate" for him - particularly if we are in the South.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      small h Aug 7, 2013 05:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm confused. Why is it okay for your husband to pronounce filet the way he learned it, but it's not okay for me to pronounce llama the way I learned it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 09:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Someone taught you to pronounce the word llama with an "l" and not a "y" or "jh" sound? In a Spanish-speaking country? Really? Well, that's a new one on me. Well, then by all means, pronounce it that way. As I said, I've been all over South American and the Spanish-speaking Caribbean, took years of Spanish classes, and have never once heard anyone pronounce the double L as an L. What country was it where you learned this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          small h Aug 7, 2013 10:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I learned to pronounce a word of Spanish origin in a non-Spanish-speaking country. And your husband learned to pronounce a word of French origin in a non-French-speaking country. So both me and your husband pronounce these words differently than they would be pronounced in their language of origin. Yet your earlier post seems to imply that I pronounce llama "wrong," but your husband pronounces filet "right." And I don't understand why you think this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just Visiting Aug 7, 2013 10:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't think that. Sorry if you got that impression. You are right - the word "filet" was a poor example. It is a word of French derivation and the British pronunciation, picked up by English-speaking South Africans, is not correct if it is your goal (as it is mine) to try to say words the way they are said in the country of origin. And actually, in my view, they are saying it incorrectly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you are saying llama with an L, then yes, it is incorrect. Would you say "me Lamo (Small)?" or "me yamo/djamo (Small)?" The latter, I hope! At least when in a Spanish-speaking country!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sorry for choosing a poor example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              small h Aug 7, 2013 11:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Got it, thanks for clarifying. I'm not confident enough in my Spanish skills to do much beyond asking directions or ordering food, so it's unlikely I'd ever have to mention llamas. But if the situation arises, I'll try to get it right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paulj Aug 7, 2013 12:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                'me llamo ...' (llama if you are female) means 'I am called ...' (my name is ...).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                'llama' also means the animal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                While 'lamo' with a distinctly English 'l' would mark you as foreign, 'yamo' and 'djamo' are equally good regional uses. I would advise using the 'y' unless to locals prefer 'dj'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Some times 'yo', 'I' is added, as in 'yo me llamo' ('yo' and 'me' both refer to 1st person). Whether the 'y' and 'll' are pronounced the same or not is another (but related) regional difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  DeppityDawg Aug 7, 2013 12:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just looking at your last message: "impression", "pronunciation", "derivation", "poor", "example", "correct", "origin", "country", … All of these words come from French (or directly from Latin), but no one worries about saying them the way they are said in their country of origin. You have to draw the line somewhere, I think, and accept that at some point, a word can become plain old English, and its pronunciation is determined by English speakers, without reference to the pronunciation in the original language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's like if someone did some research on me and found out my family originally came from some other country, and tried to tell me to stop pretending to be American and told everyone I knew that it was incorrect to treat me like an American. I wouldn't exactly consider that respectful…

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bill Hunt Aug 7, 2013 09:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh, you might be horribly surprised. The creature is often called a "Lama," in many areas of the US. That is just how it is, correct, or incorrect.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  girloftheworld Aug 12, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Waaaaiiit isnt it a "L.ah.ma"? how am supouse to be saying it? poor little animal..we allllll say "lahma" nooo wonder they spit at me!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ricepad Aug 13, 2013 07:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lots of talk about llamas, but no recipes...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: ricepad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      paulj Aug 13, 2013 07:14 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      'llamas' - as in the animal, or the flames?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      'como se llama la parrillada de llama a la llama?' - what's flame grilled llama called?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Just Visiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Harters Aug 7, 2013 10:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In the UK, scone is either SKON (to rhyme with gone) or SCOWN (to rhyme with grown or groan)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As for the other pronounciations, I think South African English generally follows British English (as does Australian and New Zealand English).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 05:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This reminds me of the MasterChef episode this season where Graham Elliott and Joe Bastianich made fun of Gordon Ramsay's pronunciation of "basil."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Jun 28, 2013 06:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Basil is pronounced very differently by English-speakers, and it is more complicated than British vs US (and the rest of us scrambling about somewhere)...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Chatsworth Jun 28, 2013 07:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyone who's watched Fawtly Towers knows how to pronounce it ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Chinon00 Jun 28, 2013 05:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I came to Massachusetts saying SKAH-lup and left saying SKAW-lup. Still do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chinon00
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bob W Jul 9, 2013 03:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My dad, a Taunton native and a proto-chowhound, called them SKOLL-ups, as if they were spelled scollops. Growing up in RI, we said SKAH-lups.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. Googs Jun 28, 2013 09:37 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Piri piri. Not because I don't know how. Just because i feel like a snobby idiot saying it in a churrascaria.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. mels Jun 28, 2013 05:56 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There is a great pho place near my office and for a couple years I though it was pho (foe) and all of my coworkers pronounce it as such. Once I found out it was pronounced "fuh" I was set in my ways and it is hard to turn back. Sometimes I catch myself but usually I pronounce it wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              13 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 06:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm with you on this one. I know how to pronounce it, but when I see it in my head I immediately think foe. I usually catch myself before I open my mouth and embarrass myself... usually.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ruth Lafler Jun 28, 2013 03:13 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wahooty Jun 28, 2013 06:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This is one I will deliberately mispronounce around some people, because if I say it correctly they have no idea what I'm talking about. Sometimes the need to communicate efficiently trumps the need to be correct. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Wahooty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Googs Jun 28, 2013 09:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just ignore it when friends request faux. It's not worth an argument.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ferret Jun 28, 2013 07:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And how do you pronounce this (well, the first two words)?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Firegoat Jun 28, 2013 09:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      One thing about knowing the correct pronunciation is that I'm finally able to get the humor in all those punny restaurant names.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pedalfaster Jun 28, 2013 03:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I had to LOL.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a place near me named "Pho-shiki"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So OF COURSE I pronounce it "foe" More like "fooooe shiki!!!!". It's funny and just works that way. I picture the penguins from Ice Age. "Fuh" ---not so much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          salsailsa Jun 29, 2013 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Agree- Russell Peters corrected that one for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            enhF94 Jun 30, 2013 07:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            apparently there's a tonal shift in there too - like "fuh?" - but this can get one into pretentiousness trouble. Still, fun with restaurants like "what the pho" (Seattle).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: enhF94
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              grayelf Jun 30, 2013 10:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think that it depends what part of Vietnam you're in as well. I've hear it pronounced like the pelt of an animal: fu-ur. Could be a northern/southern variation?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kpaxonite Jul 1, 2013 04:38 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don;t know anyone who pronounces fur in two syllables... or pho in two syllables for that matter..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  grayelf Jul 1, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's how I've heard it pronounced in a couple of Viet restos in Vancouver.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Although the more common pronunciation of pho is “fuh,” some regions pronounce it more as “foe,” and others in two syllables, Cu says, with a rising tone on the first syllable and a falling tone on the second. " http://www.chow.com/food-news/55268/how-do-you-say-pho/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  See also Trang Nguyen's response here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: kpaxonite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mariacarmen Jul 1, 2013 11:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i do. it's a very slight pause. almost like fuh-uh, but much quicker, and the second "syllable" is much more subdued.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. 3MTA3 Jun 28, 2013 05:42 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. fldhkybnva Jun 28, 2013 01:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My entire family says "weter," except for me since I wasn't raised in the Mid-Atlantic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hauckpdx Jun 27, 2013 09:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I still catch myself saying "sal-mon" because that's how my mom and dad have always pronounced it (English isn't their first language).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hauckpdx
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    paulj Jun 27, 2013 11:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Which raises the interesting question of why the pronunciation police don't complain about the missing 'l' in the common English pronunciation. It was present in Latin, still there in Spanish (salmo), but not in the French saumon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: hauckpdx
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      enhF94 Jun 30, 2013 07:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but you'll get "Salmonella" right, since it was named for Dr. Salmon, who pronounced the L!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: enhF94
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Firegoat Jun 30, 2013 07:14 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One of my favorite ever restaurants is a little hole in the wall in downtown Tahlequah, Oklahoma called "Sam & Ellas Chicken Palace"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It doesn't serve chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. c
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Chatsworth Jun 27, 2013 08:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was raised in the UK and have lived in the US for over 20 years but still have to ask my children to ask for water because apparantly I can't pronounce it properly and I'm never understood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Was once at a restaurant and (around the time of "Real Men Eat Quiche") heard a guy ask for "kwitchee."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Jun 27, 2013 09:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you gloss over the 't', and make sure to include the 'r' you might be get closer to the American 'water'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I bet a lot of the posters who complain about the missing syllable or letter in 'caramel' and 'turmeric' are unaware of how they really pronounce words like 'water'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chatsworth Jun 27, 2013 10:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I know, I just can't bring myself to do it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            small h Jun 28, 2013 06:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Some years ago, I helped a British woman get change for a dollar in a Manhattan bodega. She kept asking for "kwawtahs," which the counter guy didn't understand at all, because the word is pronounced "corders."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Chatsworth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Harters Jun 28, 2013 01:39 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've been visiting the States (from the UK) since 1980. It is only in the last few years that my accent has been recognised as being British. Before that, I was always being asked where I came from - "New Zealand, at a guess", people would say. And my north west accent is nothing like a Kiwi's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. globocity Jun 27, 2013 07:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gewürztraminer and Worcestershire

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          16 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            applgrl Jul 7, 2013 08:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Had an English co-worker who shortened it to "worst-er". Been grateful to her ever since!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: applgrl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj Jul 7, 2013 09:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Spanish speakers have taken the easy way out. They call it 'salsa inglesa', English sauce.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: applgrl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                globocity Jul 7, 2013 09:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I like that! Thank you for the shortcut.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Googs Jul 8, 2013 12:54 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  grayelf Jul 8, 2013 06:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My English rellies lose the sure part -- just Wooster.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Googs Jul 8, 2013 08:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just say wus-ter myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Harters Jul 8, 2013 08:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "wus-ter" will be the city. "wus-ter-shy-er", the county.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's "shy-er" to rhyme with hire, buyer, flyer, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LindaWhit Jul 8, 2013 08:43 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And the same in the States with Worcester, MA. It's Wuh-ster, not "Wor-chest-er".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bob W Jul 8, 2013 09:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That would "Wuss-tah"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Where ya from?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Wusstah, Mass." 8<D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bob W
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LindaWhit Jul 8, 2013 10:57 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Good point. Forgot they drop the ending letter "r" up here. :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bob W Jul 8, 2013 10:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then put them back in the wrong places:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Whaddya drinkin?"


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bob W
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bkeats Jul 8, 2013 02:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My favorite is tunerfish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Chatsworth Jul 8, 2013 03:45 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm surprised you pronounce it "shy-er". Coming, I believe, from south and east of you, I pronounce it "shuh", as in "wus-ter-shuh", "York-shuh", etc. (I'm from Derbyshire - as in Dah-be-shuh!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          grayelf Jul 8, 2013 05:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But what's the sauce, then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: grayelf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            INDIANRIVERFL Jul 9, 2013 06:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Rotten fish and tamarind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              grayelf Jul 10, 2013 05:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              LOL, I meant the pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. b
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      BuildingMyBento Jun 27, 2013 04:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When I'm in China and craving fried mantou, I usually have to whip out a pencil nub to write the character for fried. There seem to be a couple of ways to say "fried" regarding mantou, We've got 炸+馒头 (zha "fried"...or "explode" mantou), and also 金色+馒头 (jinse "gold color" mantou) and I've heard 金+馒头 (jin "gold" mantou) too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I screw up, well, I can't stand the steamed version (with condensed milk, that is), so it's good to try to know every way to say/read it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: BuildingMyBento
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you order 炸馒头, I can't imagine that anyone would serve you steamed mantou (except by "mistake").

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Samalicious Jun 27, 2013 04:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I had a boss who could not just order the vegetable tray and dip for working lunches, it had to be crudités...except she pronounced it crew-dites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Samalicious
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 07:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Should have called it crew-bites! Food for the crew!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. cookie monster Jun 27, 2013 03:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My biggest challenges are wines - gruner veltliner, viognier, gewurztraminer . . . and then there are the Hungarian and Greek ones where I don't even try . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          45 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            AmyH Jun 27, 2013 04:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A colleague who is quite proficient in both German and wines told me that gewürztraminer is pronounced ge-wurs-TRA-min-er

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              linguafood Jun 27, 2013 04:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Actually, the emphasis is on the second syllable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cookie monster Jun 27, 2013 04:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thta's what I thought. But i still usually mumble it in case I'm wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  linguafood Jun 27, 2013 04:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, those umlaute are difficult for most non-native speakers. And never mind trying to figure out where the emphasis goes on any of those looooong German words '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  AmyH Jun 27, 2013 05:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  He would say otherwise.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 05:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If he really told you to say "ge-wurs-TRA-min-er", then _you_ can tell _him_ otherwise. As linguafood said, the primary stress is on the second syllable: guh-WUERTS-tra-mi-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood Jun 27, 2013 05:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Danke. As a native speaker, I feel fairly proficient in my mother tongue '-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 06:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am not sure if I am supposed to apologize now, for saying something about German in a thread where a native German speaker was already active, so just in case: Sorry. If it helps (me), I was replying to AmyH, not to you. Fortunately, we seem to be in agreement, no? I will respectfully yield the rest of this sub-thread entirely to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood Jun 27, 2013 10:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, yea, I was totally agreeing with you. I know your reply was aimed at AmyH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No pasa nada, DD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mbfant Jun 27, 2013 10:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Then perhaps you will settle this once and for all. The main stress of the word is clearly on the second syllable, but what about the secondary stress? I always had it in my head that it was TRA-min-er, but here in Italy it is tra-MI-ner. I think I looked it up once and found the Italians were right, but the doubt lingers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This was for Linguafood. Sometimes the replies go where you want them, sometimes they don't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Jun 27, 2013 10:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, you are correct, the second stress is on the MI.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I realize this is, indeed, not the easiest word in the world to pronounce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Googs Jun 28, 2013 09:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Think "ach du lieber".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          AmyH Jun 28, 2013 01:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You are absolutely right and I'm sorry that I was misinformed. Please add gewürztraminer to the list of words I pronounce incorrectly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LindaWhit Jun 27, 2013 07:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't you mean the second sy-LAH-bul? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Jun 28, 2013 03:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and of course the w is pronounced like a v...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ruth Lafler Jun 28, 2013 03:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Right. It's actually closer to Ge-VERTS-tra-ME-ner (since the "w" is pronounced like a "v" and the "i" is pronounced like a long "e" and giving up on trying to capture the ü sound in English).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wawsanham Jul 2, 2013 05:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Actually, the Ü is the equivalent of English "ee" with the lips rounded. Voilà, the "Ü" sound will come out if you do this. So it is more of a Ge-VEERTS-truh-meen-air

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As an aside, there are German dialects that pronounce the Ü as "ee" unrounded. But, it is not the standard pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 06:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just like the "gn" sound in Viognier, talked about upthread, "Ü" is also difficult to write phonetically.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                EER, even rounded, doesn't quite get it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Might be too difficult to write or describe; one must probably hear it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Wawsanham
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  JungMann Jul 3, 2013 06:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Actually the word gewürz takes a short ü. The rounded "ee" is a good description of how to pronounce long ü, whereas the short version of the vowel is closer to a rounded "ih." And as you point out an Austrian might pronounce it closer to an "ee" unrounded.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As long as someone is not pronouncing it "Hey drunkie!" I'm not terribly particular about how its spoken to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jeri L Jul 5, 2013 10:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Asking for "Gevurts" makes you sound like you know all about it and are just too cool to pronounce all those syllables.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Jeri L
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      JungMann Jul 6, 2013 10:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree with you. Calling it Gewuerz strikes my ears as cutesy much like people who order "margs" at happy hour. But be that as it may, Gewuerztraminer is a compound word and the first word, Gewuerz, has a short vowel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Jul 6, 2013 02:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You might also get some funny looks ordering "gewürz", which means spice in German. Context would help, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              AmyH Jun 29, 2013 09:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I asked my German friend who lives in the Allgau (sorry I don't know how to put umlauts in comments) region about the pronunciation and why my colleague would have told me the emphasis is in the third syllable. She said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "The pronounciation of Gewurztraminer may vary according to different regions. In Northern Italy (South Tyrolia) emphasize might be on the 3.sillable."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So perhaps it depends on where you heard the word first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Jun 29, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Perhaps. There are many regional dialects in Germany, and Bavarian in particular is so different from most other dialects I wouldn't even try to guess how these particular folks pronounce anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That said, the common pronounciation in "high" German is as I've pointed out upthread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lagatta Jun 29, 2013 02:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Obviously the Südtirol dialect would be closer to Bavarian than anything else spoken in Germany, but even more particular, given its geographical location and political status. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairische_Dialekte http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCd...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They sure make some lovely wines!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood Jun 29, 2013 02:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Boy do I miss me some good, affordable German/Austrian white wines over here..... ah, next year.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine Jun 30, 2013 02:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I most often hear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Guh-VUHRZ (tiny pause) TRAH-mih-ner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    when I'm in Germany, Austria and the Sud-Tirol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Traminer (TRAH-mih-ner)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is an often-used word all by itself, so its pronunciation wouldn't change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to truh-MEE-ner simply because an adjective -- Gewurz --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is placed in front of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Traminer refers to a family of wine grapes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and in this family are several traminer grapes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There's White Traminer, Red Traminer, and Spicy Traminer,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (Gewurz Traminer). An adjective modifying a noun in each case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So when people say Gewurz Traminer, they are simply specifying which type of Traminer they mean (white, red or spicy, just like specifying Red or White Zinfandel).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You pronounce Gewurztraminer like two separate words, with a tiny pause in-between Gewurz and Traminer. Each word has its own emphasis: the second syllable of Gewurz; the first syllable of Traminer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Geh-VUHRZ (tiny pause)TRAH-mih-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Because TRAH-mih-ner is a separate established word, this sounds incorrect to me:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Geh-VUHRZ truh-MEE-ner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood Jun 30, 2013 03:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, just goes to show that there isn't *always* just one way to pronounce things "correctly". It is subject to regional dialects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've only heard it pronounced GeWÜRZtraMIner. So what. As long as they bring me the wine I ordered, I honestly couldn't care less.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine Jul 1, 2013 12:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just to be equal-handed, listen to these pronunciations of Gewurztraminer:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          linguafood Jul 1, 2013 09:56 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Right. Which is exactly how I pronounce it, and how I have heard it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            INDIANRIVERFL Jul 1, 2013 11:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have a feeling that the lack of Trockenbeerenauslese wines in the US is due as much to the difficulty in pronunciation as it is to it's rarity in general.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: INDIANRIVERFL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              eatzalot Jul 29, 2013 11:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Trockenbeerenauslese (TBA)-weight German wines at least ARE inherently rare, an exotic niche wine class -- so likely uncommon under any name.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              However, I have seen serious wine writers advance this same point over the international marketing difficulty of some Burgundian wine village names, even though the wines are much more mainstream on their home soil than TBA wines are on theirs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Auxey-Duresses and Pernand-Vergelesses, to name a couple. It being an old-world wine region, the wines are identified mainly by these place names of course (not by grape type), and the name itself can be a mouthful for foreigners.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A friend did once report great difficulty getting a large US wine shop, over the phone, to check their stock of a Karthäuserhof Eitelsbacher Karthäuserhofberg spätlese #45 (AP 10-02).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              JungMann Jul 1, 2013 12:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Now that we've exhausted Gewürtztraminer, perhaps we can graduate onto the pronunciation of Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Jul 1, 2013 12:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No problem :-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: JungMann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ruth Lafler Jul 1, 2013 12:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  German is actually pretty easy to pronounce once you understand the rules, since the pronunciation is much more regular than English. In this case, it's all about figuring out where the breaks are, since this is just a bunch of words strung together.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    INDIANRIVERFL Jul 1, 2013 01:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Take pity on me. My German teacher of 3 years in Gymnasium was from Vienna. I lived in an area of Bavaria that had a lot of Hebrew in the dialect. The Star of David is still on the local beer. While living 5 years in Hesse, my Prussian landlord and Wurttemburger landlady would argue between themselves on the proper pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    While my glottals and rolling rrrs received praise in Hesse, it leaves my immigrant friends from South Africa screaming with laughter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 09:50 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine Jul 1, 2013 05:28 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    After reading jjw's post below, I checked the pronunciation at another site, and it is (more clearly) the pronunciation I'm trying to describe:



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      linguafood Jul 2, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'd take that pronunciation more seriously if that man were a native German or even Austrian speaker. He is clearly anglophone, so it's not the greatest examples.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The other links you posted were spot on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        maria lorraine Jul 2, 2013 03:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Independent of the nationality of the person who is doing the pronunciation at

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it is the closest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -- with an accent also on the TRAH of Traminer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        instead of on the MEE --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to the way the word is actually said by people in the wine industry in Germany, Austria and the Sud-Tirol/Alto Adige.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The pronunciation at the other two links is different from what you actually hear when the wine is being discussed where it's grown. I'm telling ya.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: AmyH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Caroline1 Jul 2, 2013 07:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Should be "gevurtz..." A "w" in German is a "v" in English. And a "v" in German is like an "f" in English. The list goes on.... Here's a quick guide:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: cookie monster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gruner Veltliner is pronounced pretty much the way it looks, except the "liner" part is "leener."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bill Hunt Jul 5, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Again, just what I hear in Austria, from most of the producers.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jeri L Jul 5, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I heard some marketing trying to get people to ask for "gru-v" (groovie), again...if you can't pronounce it, shorten it to a nickname and pretend you're too cool for the whole name!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            eatzalot Jul 10, 2013 11:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ChefJune: 'Gruner Veltliner is pronounced pretty much the way it looks, except the "liner" part is "leener."'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And also except that the U is nasalated, a sound not normally used in English. (The word is written "Gruener" in the absence of an umlaut mark.) Not that an English long U sound would be misunderstood...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            When I got to know and love that wine in Austria in the 1980s, and later visits, I came away with a slight pronunciation error, only corrected later by people in the Austrian wine biz. Was accustomed to hearing many people around Vienna ordering it in wine bars or restaurants, and I wrongly stressed the 1st syllable of Veltliner. As they pointed out, the usual pronunc. in Austria stresses, albeit mildly, the second syllable (for the Valtellina region the grape is named for).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is nothing to the problems of English speakers attempting some Dutch words. The first time I ignorantly repeated my international pronunciation of Gouda cheese as "GOO-da" while in the Netherlands, it brought guffaws and a summoning of others who "must hear this." They use a soft G (known generically as a strongly-aspirated H, as in Omar Hayyam etc.) and the ou vowel is like English "OW."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Back in the US, this came up over the famous painter's name (van) Gogh, which properly sounds like a protracted cough -- to which a friend (a distinguished comparative-literatures scholar) proclaimed that it's unreasonable to expect native English speakers to accurately render that Dutch name "if they're in good health."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. f
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ferventfoodie Jun 27, 2013 02:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The whole "gyro" thing on Chopped the other night drove me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nuts, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When I was much younger, I was guilty of the "marscapone"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mistake - and I grew up in northeast NJ. Amazed I wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          called on it much earlier!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Still not sure about Viognier.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          12 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            paulj Jun 27, 2013 02:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Did you say 'marscapone' because you misread the word, or because everyone around you was saying it that way? I haven't figured out where the 'mar...' form came from, but apparently it is quite common, both in the USA and the UK.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ferventfoodie Jun 27, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not really sure because I started "pronouncing" it long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              before I started cooking with it. We never had it in our
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              house because my dad disliked any thing that resembled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cheese so I didn't misread it there but might have seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it on a menu. I'm assuming I picked up from other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              people saying it but I might have misheard - although I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              still hear it mispronounced.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paulj Jun 27, 2013 04:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The Splendid Table, 1992, p211

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Rice of the Princes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ... this rice, with its nuts and spice, is served on a bed of roasted greens and topped with marscapone [sic]. ... Dolloping a little mascarpone on each serving ..."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Interesting that even in a book on Italian cooking, the 'mar' spelling sneaks its way past the author and editors.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I found this doing a Google ngram search on 'marscapone'. The 'mar' spelling is clearly in a minority in published items, still it does persist (from 1980 on).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              512window Jun 27, 2013 04:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My brother has a friend who's a wine maker. He was lamenting the fact that no one will purchase Viognier, because everyone is embarassed about the pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We advocated marketing it as "Vogner".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Jun 27, 2013 04:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's so easy. Veeon-yay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 04:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't think the "vio" is the problem, it's the "gn" part… If you really have to adjust the spelling to accommodate the least French-savvy clients (while still staying approximately faithful to the original name), I would have suggested "Vionier".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood Jun 27, 2013 05:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, your suggestion is better, I think.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jeri L Jun 27, 2013 09:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Exactly. English-speaking brain transposes the "gn" and thinks, "vinegar?" (Or maybe that's just me...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        lagatta Jun 28, 2013 03:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, the gn is a sound that simply doesn't exist in English, idem the "cu" in charcuterie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Offhand, i'd say the gn is a bit like the English "nya nya" sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: 512window
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Googs Jun 28, 2013 09:31 AM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: ferventfoodie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Viognier = veeown YAY

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bob W Jul 9, 2013 05:45 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeppers -- Viognier does very well here in Virginia so we know how to pronounce it. Very nice grape.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4. girloftheworld Jun 27, 2013 01:05 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. ItalGreyHound Jun 27, 2013 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sherbet. I am well aware that there is no second "r" but it will always be "rainbow sher-BERT" to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: ItalGreyHound
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Terrie H. Jun 27, 2013 01:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know that it's supposed to be SHERBET, but I've never heard anyone in my entire life pronouce it other that sherbert.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Terrie H.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ItalGreyHound Jun 27, 2013 05:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I know! Me neither. Even my mom, who was an English teacher, used to say sherBERT, and then laugh and say, "I know it's wrong, but I can't pronounce it any other way!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: ItalGreyHound
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fldhkybnva Jun 27, 2013 08:17 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              SherBERT for life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: fldhkybnva
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ItalGreyHound Jun 28, 2013 07:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sing it, sister :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And, I just realized that my response to Terrie is very past-tense, like my mom is no longer with us. Happily, she very much is, and is still pronouncing it "bert!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3. ttoommyy Jun 27, 2013 12:43 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't do this, but I have people pronounce the word "soy" as "so-ee." is that correct? I always thought it rhymed with "boy."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                EWSflash Jun 29, 2013 04:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think "so-ee" is from the Southeastern U.S., at least according to Alton Brown it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: EWSflash
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sandylc Jul 1, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  For seeming like such a picky guy, Alton can sure mangle some words.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Soy rhymes with Boy. Even in the Southeast.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jeri L Jul 5, 2013 10:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think some regional dialects vary. I've seen it spelled in old cookbooks as "soya" and that's sort of how my Midwestern Grandparents said it. See above for "not correct but valid" arguments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Jeri L
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      paulj Jul 5, 2013 10:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      soya is a common UK spelling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. mrbigshotno.1 Jun 27, 2013 11:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Shallots, shaw-lot not shalets. Mozzerella, mot sa rella, no muse a rel. Tamal, if it's one it's a tamal, two or more, tamales. Alcoholic, no I'm a drunkard (just kidding).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mrbigshotno.1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pinehurst Jun 27, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oof, I have to say that I do the shalets thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (slinks away).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: pinehurst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      monavano Jun 27, 2013 11:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      me too

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: pinehurst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ruth Lafler Jun 28, 2013 03:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ooh, I was feeling pretty good about myself until I got to "shaw-lot." *hangs head in shame* And I do use "tamale" as the singular.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There are honest mispronunciations and then there are affectations. For example, I hate it when people on Top Chef say "Swis-shard" instead of "Swiss chard" -- apparently what they are doing is copying the way French chefs pronounce the English name. Eric Ripert gets to say "Swis-shard" but Tom Colicchio doesn't!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Jun 28, 2013 06:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And of course it isn't the name in French... Also, many vegetables have extremely regional names. It has MANY names in English, French, Italian and no doubt countless other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_c...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bietola in Italian, at least in many regions, but there are no doubt other names.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbfant Jun 29, 2013 05:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, bieta, bieda, and, around Parma, erbetta. Here in Rome erbetta is parsley (= prezzemolo).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: Ruth Lafler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In French, Swiss Chard would be "blettes." :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Gastronomos Jun 27, 2013 11:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        anything French , on purpose

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. monavano Jun 27, 2013 10:51 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My brother once ordered steak with a shit take mushroom sauce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: monavano
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pinehurst Jun 27, 2013 11:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ding Ding Ding!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: monavano
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Karl S Jun 28, 2013 09:16 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Catherine Tate's immortal sketch on this (IIRC, the characters are striving folk from the Midlands):


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Karl S
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                monavano Jun 28, 2013 09:59 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Oh wow, thank you for this! I love Catherine Tate from The Office and this was so funny.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. Heidi cooks and bakes Jun 27, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              After my trip to Key West, I regaled my sister with my food stories. I told her that I had tried fried conch. Which I pronounced with a hard "ch". She told me it's pronounced like "konk". She's my younger sister...I don't know if I believe her or not! But it's another food I decided I don't have to order again!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Heidi cooks and bakes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Googs Jun 28, 2013 09:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Its worth knowing how to say it so you can order conch fritters. And yes it's "conk" like the sound of a blow to the head.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treb Jun 27, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Once had a friend call Merlot, MER LOT! Also Charcuterie is a good one. Ten there's Amuse Bush!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                19 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: treb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  girloftheworld Jun 27, 2013 12:57 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I cant get this one...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: girloftheworld
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jerseygirl111 Jun 27, 2013 10:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I practiced this before I went to the restaurant that I planned on ordering it. I say Shar-koo-tree.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sadly I still say en-dive instead of ahn-deeve. Also sher-bert instead of sher-bet as others have mentioned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have no idea how to pronounce Char siu...Shar zoo?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      girloftheworld Jun 28, 2013 10:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you! Shar- Koo -tree! seeing it like that makes it so clear.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mag454 Jul 1, 2013 07:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        its char like char the meat or charlie and sue like the person. at least thats how we pronounce it here in hawaii where we eat char siu pretty regularly!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Mag454
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Jerseygirl111 Jul 1, 2013 11:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you for responding. I had given up on getting an answer!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Char-sue. I'll be there in one year to try your Char siu!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Jerseygirl111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cowboyardee Jul 7, 2013 06:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I could be wrong, but I believe "shar-koo-tuh-ree" is the more common anglicized pronunciation. "Shar-koo-tree" is more similar to the French pronunciation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Jul 8, 2013 03:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But the u in French is not at all the same sound as the English oo. Forvo has a Canadian speaker: http://fr.forvo.com/word/charcuterie/ French speakers would be even more rapid. Remember, you have to purse your lips - make a kissy mouth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cowboyardee Jul 8, 2013 06:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "shar-koo-tree" is admittedly a pretty rough translation of French pronunciation. Not even sure how I would spell out the French syllables (I studied French once - my pronunciation is passable at best).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But that's kind of the point. "Shar-KOO-tuh-ree" without any French accent is the most common anglicized pronunciation that I've heard. "Shar-ku-tree" with French pronunciation is how French speakers would say the word. "Shar-koo-tree" with English pronunciation... is not really anything. It might be regionally acceptable or preferred, I guess. My point was just that there's seldom a reason to mimic French pronunciation of a word that's been anglicized when conversing in English.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mtlcowgirl Jul 29, 2013 09:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                How about avoiding the trouble and using the English term: cold cuts? ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mtlcowgirl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  girloftheworld Jul 29, 2013 05:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  there is a marked difference between the two

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mtlcowgirl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine Jul 29, 2013 06:46 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Charcuterie involves many more items, and presumably of a different style, than cold cuts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <<"Shar-ku-tree" with French pronunciation is how French speakers would say the word.>>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My sense is that you're not hearing the two final syllables ("təh-ree") that are there, because they're being said quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: maria lorraine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      DeppityDawg Jul 29, 2013 07:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The standard French pronunciation only has three syllables: [ʃaʀkytʀi] (pretty much the way cowboyardee described it).


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: treb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          globocity Jun 28, 2013 06:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've heard "Riesling" pronounced as "RYEzling".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Jun 29, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, anglophones seem to have a problem with the whole "ie" vs. "ei" sounds in German words.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Caroline1 Jul 2, 2013 07:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There'd a simple rule that takes all of the guess work out of the German ie and ei combinations. It is ALWAYS the second letter of the combination that is pronounced like that letter is pronounced when reciting the English alphabet. Therefore "ie" is pronounced "eeee," and "ei" is pronounced "eye". Hope this helps. '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Caroline1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Jul 2, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Interesting concept.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Caroline1 Jul 3, 2013 12:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Its wut I wuz taut in collidge... '-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ChefJune Jul 5, 2013 12:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nada. Rees-ling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ChefJune
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bill Hunt Jul 5, 2013 07:07 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That is very, very close to the pronunciations by those, producing the Riesling wines in GR. Now, there are tiny "local" variations, but not something that most would pick up.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Harters Jun 27, 2013 09:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'll go with the OP's quinoa. Never in a month of Sundays would I have guessed correct pronounciation. Still havnt tasted it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I speak reasonable food/restaurant French and Spanish so am rarely phased by words in those languages. Then there are the food words that I see written but have never heard spoken, so have no real idea about how to pronounce them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then again, maybe it's me that's right and others who are wrong. There's words in some forms of English that don't even exist in my form of English. And, then again, I eat tom-ar-toes, not tom-ay-toes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            48 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Firegoat Jun 27, 2013 09:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You can't imagine my shock when I heard it pronounced. Like you.. I just read it and applied what I thought was a reasonable pronunciation to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Firegoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 10:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's all those vowels… What do you think of "bresaola"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ttoommyy Jun 27, 2013 11:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What do you think of "bresaola"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In Italy, and by those "in the know" here in the US, I've heard it pretty much pronounced "bre-sow-la."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    DeppityDawg Jun 27, 2013 03:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bre-zow-la, I would say, but I was thinking (along the lines of this thread) of people not living in Italy or otherwise in the know, who might have come across this product.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gfr1111 Jun 27, 2013 04:59 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I speak Spanish pretty well and was drilled so thoroughly in it that I pronounce most unfamiliar foreign words with a Spanish accent. Sometimes it's embarrassing, but most of the time, it works pretty well. If I read arabic lettered Japanese (e.g., "konichiwa Reiko," (ko-neechee-wah Ray-ko), it is understandable to Japanese. So I can read a menu in Japanese and not have a clue what I am saying, but Japanese people will understand me. On the other hand, this technique does not work at all with French . . . As far as I can tell, nothing works with French--except learning French.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: gfr1111
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paulj Jun 27, 2013 08:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Spanish never had a 'Great vowel shift'. So vowel sounds match the letters in the classic pattern. And linguists in devising new orthographies (such as for your Japanese example) followed that pattern. English, on the other hand, altered its vowels after the spelling was on its way toward standardization. French spelling probably has similar fossils.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lizard Jul 2, 2013 01:09 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Harters, how do you pronounce 'paella' and 'chorizo'? Brits tend to have a standardised (mis)pronunciation of the two. Do you go for the Spanish pronunciation, or the British one?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Lizard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Harters Jul 7, 2013 03:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry, Lizard, I'm hopeless at writing phonetically so am not sure how to answer your question. I think I use a Spanish pronunciation but am never sure - much of my Spanish comes from visiting Mallorca and, in truth, sometimes I'm not sure whether the word I'm using is Castilian or Mallorcan. And, therefore, what the correct pronunciation is - it can differ. For example, a Castilian speaker may struggle to correctly pronounce my given name of John as the "J" is very different in that language - but a Mallorcan speaker would have no trouble at all. There's also particular differences in the use of the letter "L", where in Castilian it may silent but in Mallorcan it is pronounced - as in the island's capital of Palma de Mallorca. Most Brits would certainly pronounce it as a Castilian speaker would (say as Par-mah), but I pronounce it a a local would (as Pal - ma).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've no idea if my compatriots tend to mispronouce a word - but then I don't like to stereotype.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Harters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 05:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ooh now i'm confused Mr. H. Castillians as far as i know (i lived in Spain (albeit a long time ago) would also pronounce Palma as "pal-ma"...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Lizard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Googs Jul 7, 2013 05:47 PM


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cha-REE-zoh though I have a friend who insists its shaREESS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        globocity Jul 7, 2013 09:40 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cho (not cha) ree zoo for the Mexican variety. The Spanish type is cho ree tho (voiceless "th).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Jul 8, 2013 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Globocity, wouldn't that depend on the origin of the speaker, not the type of chorizo? The (not excellent) Spanish I speak is mostly Argentine; I chose an Argentine teacher because the sounds are very close to Italian, which I speak fluently, and I have family there. But they wouldn't use the Spanish "th" (you are correct that this sound is not the typical th in English).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mariacarmen Jul 8, 2013 11:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you would only use it if you were a Spaniard in Spain, not depending on what kind of chorizo. (and according to Harters, you would not use it if in Mallorca.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              globocity Jul 9, 2013 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For me, it is different than what you indicate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Chorizo in Mexico is different than that in Spain and also differs in pronunciation. I grew up and learned Mexican Spanish (where there is no "th" for /s/ or /z/) however when referring to the Spanish meat, I pronounce it "cho ree thoh." But then again...I also use the Vosotros form so perhaps I am an outlier!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mariacarmen Jul 9, 2013 07:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, chorizo is different in spain and in mexico, both deliTHioso in their own right, but a spaniard would call them both`choh-ree-tho' because that's how he says that letter. And that 'th' sound is like the 'th' sound in 'with' rather than, well, 'rather'. Or 'than'!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mariacarmen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paulj Jul 9, 2013 07:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Speakers in northern and central Spain, including the variety prevalent on radio and television, have both /θ/ and /s/ (distinción). However, speakers in Latin America and some parts of southern Spain have only /s/ (seseo), and speakers in southernmost Spain have only [s̄] (a consonant similar to /θ/) and not /s/ (ceceo)"


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Most of the colonial trade with the Americas passed through southern ports like Seville.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    maria lorraine Jul 9, 2013 08:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can you clarify these symbols for the unknowing masses,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so that we may understand what it is you're saying?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    /s/ (seseo)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    [s̄] (a consonant similar to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    /θ/) and not /s/ (ceceo)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you would, use American words as examples of the sounds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      paulj Jul 9, 2013 10:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A larger discussion in Wiki article on 'Ceceo'


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Areas that give 'z' a 'th' like sound pronounce casa "house" and caza "hunt" differently. In some parts of Spain, and most of Latin American they sound the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The pronunciation of 'll' (as in paella) is another major regional difference. In many areas 'll' and 'y' are pronounced the same. In a few others they remain distinct.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mariacarmen Jul 9, 2013 10:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it's not just the "z", but also the "c", as in, "Valentheea".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i used to think it was only Barthelona that did the "th" sound for "zs" and "cs" (I lived there once), but as you and others have mentioned, it's many parts of Spain that do the same, but not all. but no other parts of Latin America that i know of....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ok, just read some of that link. i get what you're saying. sort of. jeez (not to be confused with "heeth")... my brain gets fuzzy reading that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sr44 Jul 10, 2013 05:55 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And there's Portuguese chorizo as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sr44
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      DeppityDawg Jul 11, 2013 01:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That would be "chouriço", with still different pronunciations.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Jul 11, 2013 05:12 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From the wiki article:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Asturian: chorizu [tʃoˈɾiθu];
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Basque: txorizo [tʃoˈɾis̻o];
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Galician: chourizo [tʃowˈɾiθo];
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Portuguese: chouriço [ʃoˈɾisu];
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Catalan: xoriço [ʃuˈɾisu]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DeppityDawg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bob W Jul 11, 2013 08:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In Rhode Island, people say "chaurice," and there are plenty of people who spell it that way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I worked with a guy at a market in Providence who -- swear to god -- made a sign regarding a special on "bresuit." That's proscuitto. 8<D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Googs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mariacarmen Jul 7, 2013 10:56 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                whoa, i'm sorry, that could not be more wrong. it's pah-ehl-yah. if you say it fast, it may sound SOMETHING like what the guy is saying. the "pa" sound in Spanish would never sound like "pie". "a" is always "ah" in Spanish - a short sound. the "ll" is not a "y", it's a combo of "l" and "y". i'm not berating you, it's just amazing to me how Spanish is taught to non-native speakers, as if they could not pronounce these very simple sounds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and as for chorizo, there is no "ts" sound, as in "pizza. it's choh-ree-zoh, more like an "s" sound. and yes, as globocity says, in Spain the "z" is pronounced as a "th", as though you were lisping.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the people they're using to speak in those youtube segments aren't even native Spanish speakers. why would they do this to people trying to learn?