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Breaking News...Food Network won't renew Paula Deen's contract


This was announced after she made the video apology...

  1. after she made two video apologies which were both absurd.

    1. Good riddens. Her voice and manner drove me nuts.

        1. Didn't they let Robert Irvine go at one point only to bring him back? Wonder if the same will happen here.

          Hope she saved some of her money, I bet she loses endorsements too.

          79 Replies
          1. re: Jpan99

            Imus and Dog the Bounty Hunter were fired for similar things. After about a year or two, they seem to come back. They were on different networks.

            Robert Irvine was fired for making up his resume, so the reason was different for him.

            1. re: Antilope

              Re: Irvine. I'm continually surprised he has not one but two FN shows. Somehow I can't help but feel he's a phony in chef's whites... I don't like what Paula said in her deposition. But I have a feeling we haven't heard the last of her either.

              1. re: Gio

                I feel exactly the same way about Robert Irvine Gio. I have zero respect for him and can't tolerate even hearing him on tv.

                As for Paula, she should never, ever, be on tv again. I wouldn't give her another minute of air time. I'm appalled by her actions. Truly sickening.

                I believe I have one of her cookbooks and a magazine. Both will be on their way to the recycling bin in the morning.

                1. re: Breadcrumbs

                  I cringe when Robert Irvine teaches a chef on his Restaurant Impossible how to make a dish. They dishes he creates usually don't really make sense.

                  1. re: wincountrygirl

                    Have to agree. How do you take advice from a guy who, lied about his experience?

                    And until he got his show Kitchen Nightmares...sorry Restaurant Impossible. He was a cook in the navy and worked in hotel catering. No experience owning and running a restaurant.

                    1. re: Withnail42

                      I just don't get why FN keeps him w so many other great real chefs out there.

                        1. re: Withnail42

                          OMG, I'll never be able to purge that image from my memory. Why did I click on that!?

                          1. re: Breadcrumbs

                            OH , its as bad as Oseland on Top Chef Masters last year - the beach one.............

                              1. re: Withnail42

                                Ah yes, Paula riding Robert like Seattle Slew.

                                1. re: Withnail42

                                  Paula licking Robert's chest...Withnail, what WERE you thinking. Words fail me, thank god I already had a drink in hand when I saw that <sigh>

                                  1. re: DiningDiva

                                    Didn't think I should have to suffer alone.

                                    1. re: Withnail42

                                      Thank you (I think) for thinking of us, so generous of you ;-)

                                    1. re: Withnail42

                                      I think people have been banned from Chowhound for lesser offenses than that link... ; )

                                      1. re: Withnail42

                                        Have her poor sons left the country yet? She's obviously gone over the edge.

                                      2. re: Breadcrumbs

                                        I hate all his endorsements, ie cysco etc...and worse are his honeymoon pictures on FN website. Yuck!!!

                                        1. re: Gloriaa

                                          Don't let his wife hear you say that. He married a lady wrestler. ;-) I'm surprised she didn't get Paula in a headlock after that picture.

                                          1. re: Antilope

                                            I don't really want to think about what the three of them 'did' after the photo was taken.

                                          2. re: Gloriaa

                                            Could not believe Irvine endorses Sysco...that's one of our standard restaurant-critic insults "those onion rings came right out of the Sysco bag"

                                            One wonders what all the fuss was about when FN kicked off that JAG dude on NFNS a few years ago for lying about something. It seems to be SOP at "The Network"

                                        2. re: Withnail42

                                          He had several seasons of Dinner Impossible before the scandal about his resume came out. A restaurant deal fell through because of that, and Symon replaced him for a season on DI. But evidently he'd proven himself as a TV personality and cook, and they brought him back for more season(s) of DI. His RI show builds on that DI experience, not on royal cake baking or restaurant startups. Now he has more restaurant make overs to his credit than anyone else. Judge him for those, not earlier experience (or lack there of).

                                          I suspect that people who keep bringing up his lies never liked him in the first place.

                                          1. re: paulj

                                            Thanks for the recaps, but well aware of how it all went down. And his lies are sort of a big issue. They being brought up now in context of FH giving people second chances.

                                            Actually I had nothing against him before the 'scandal'. Now he just strikes me as an egotistical blowhard. Who got lucky with a job based on a fabricated resume.

                                            For whatever reason FN brass took a shine and found a way to bring him back. Then follow that old pattern of reusing the same people over and over again.

                                            TV episodes are not real world experience. He’s a disgraced institutional catering cook giving business, ethical and psychological advice to restaurateurs. It’s an oil water thing; don't really mix too well.

                                            1. re: paulj

                                              I actually do like him - personality wise, and maybe I'm naive but he seems to care about the people he is trying to help. I think he understand the restaurant biz. BUT, I don't respect him as a chef and that would be the case even if I didn't know about his lies. I see what he cooks and I don't like what I see.

                                            2. re: Withnail42

                                              Exactly. And the food he used to do on Dinner Impossible and on RI reflects his navy cooking style. It's hardly fine dining. I cringe when they call him chef!

                                              1. re: wincountrygirl

                                                Having employed a number of former Navy cooks over a 35+ year in the food industry, I can tell you they are usually very well trained and possess skills that many culinary school grads do not. No, their cooking isn't refined like you'd find in an upscale restaurant :-), but then again, trying to feed 5,000+ people on a floating city in the middle of the ocean isn't about refinement :-)

                                                I've always said give me a kitchen full of Mexicans & ex-military and we could rock out some great food.

                                                1. re: DiningDiva

                                                  I will say in fairness to Irvine that the cooks in the Royal Navy are generally well trained. Often they are called on do the service for big sate occasions.

                                                  The top tier of cooks were eligible to work aboard the Royal Yacht. When there was one.

                                                  The fact that Irvine did work on the Royal Yacht does mean that he was a good navy cook and a sailor in good standing.

                                                  1. re: DiningDiva

                                                    Yes. Fine dining restaurants are actually made to work by groups of fast, talented accurate cooks, mostly Latino, African American. Without them 75% of FD would go dark.

                                                    And they are as smart and inventive as they are allowed to be, in most FD not much. They can do nearly anything in any language.

                                                    Bourdain often ticks me off but he nailed this issue. Military cooks too. Economical, smart about production cost and timing. And yeah - some of them taught me how-to.

                                                    Little flash, lots of results. Go Navy

                                                  2. re: wincountrygirl

                                                    Did Symon do any better when he had DI for a season?

                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                      Not really. I like Symon, even embrace the crazy laugh, but he seemed to be pinch hitting for RI.
                                                      I think DI took a very specific personality and RI hit it.

                                                  3. re: Withnail42

                                                    restaurant impossible is a lot better than fox's bastardized kitchen nightmares where ramsay does a whole lot of nothing.

                                                    1. re: catroast

                                                      But RI will never top the KN "amy's baking company" episode for epicness.

                                                      1. re: Firegoat

                                                        Nor should it :-). I happen to live just down the street from one of the restaurants that was featured (season 2) on RI and he did help. The place is still open, doing more than $1 mil gross a year and will probably make it. The place didn't have the horrible range of problems (i.e. wasn't dirty, cooks knew how to cook, engaged and commited owner) that many of the other restos featured seem to have, so maybe it was an easier fix than others, but the owner does credit RI for helping her sort out the issues and get them under control.

                                                        1. re: Firegoat

                                                          I sure the 'brain trust' over at FN is busy looking for their own 'Amy' as we speak.

                                                  4. re: Breadcrumbs

                                                    That'll fix her! She'll be crushed that you threw away what you already paid for

                                              2. re: Jpan99

                                                Depending on what happens in the meantime - I definitely think it's reasonable to assume that in a year or two she might be brought back.

                                                There are numerous examples of celebrities having shows canceled or losing endorsements and then coming back.

                                                1. re: cresyd

                                                  It'll depend on public sentiment, I expect, and I can't imagine people clamoring for her return. Who knows, though. I rooted for Tiger's comeback but am happy that Mel's career remains in the toilet. Deen's current troubles seem to be a last-straw situation following her hawking the diabetic prescription. One bad might be forgivable for her fans, but the second might make them write her off. (Hopefully, IMO)

                                                  1. re: KrumTx

                                                    I totally agree. This wasn't her 1st huge PR screwup.

                                                    1. re: Njchicaa

                                                      She's had some whoppers, hasn't she? She's got that matronly thing going on with the thick-as-mollasses-in-January accent that helps.

                                                      1. re: monavano

                                                        She has but this is a human rights violation isn't it? Surely folks have a right to be treated with dignity and respect.

                                                        Some may forgive but who will forget this.


                                                        1. re: Breadcrumbs

                                                          BC, I agree with you 100% about people being treated with respect and dignity, but how is what Paula said any different than the millionaire rappers who liberally use the "N" word in their songs (if that's what you can call them) along with lyrics that extol rape and abuse of women.

                                                          I am no fan of Paula Deen, in fact I would sit through a Rachel Ray marathon before I could watch 10 mintues of a Paula Deen show. And I certainly can't condone her comments or sentiments, but damn it, where is the outrage over the rampant use of the "N" word in the music industry. You don't see record producers dumping their "talent" over the use of the "N" word. Why is it more acceptable for these filthy mouth rappers to use the "N" word than it is for an older, annoying white woman to use it?

                                                          1. re: DiningDiva

                                                            Right or wrong, African Americans feel they own the word and can use it, and can also decide who cannot use it. Some defend that their using it is taking the word back from other races who use it pejoratively.
                                                            Just the explanation I've heard many times. I think the word should go away, but I have no control over any AA person saying it.
                                                            I'm pretty sure I remember Jessie Jackson calling Obama the N word on a hot mike on TV, and the fallout was brief and minimal.

                                                            1. re: DiningDiva

                                                              You can say things about your family or your ethnic group that would make your hair stand on end if they came from other people. This is no different.

                                                              1. re: DiningDiva

                                                                I don't want to revisit territory hashed out on the (now locked) thread, but I will say that there's a vast difference between language used by a comedian or musician in an entertainment setting, and that used by the CEO of a corporation. It's called a hostile work environment, and Deen's remarks qualify.

                                                                I hear so many people saying this, but it's clearly an apples and oranges comparison.

                                                                1. re: JonParker

                                                                  I understand you point and I don't necessarily disagree with it. I simply think that there is a double standard at play here. Racism is alive and well in the United States (as witnessed by the uproar during the NBA finals when a Hipsanic kid born in TX was vilifiled because of his brown skin)

                                                                  I don't hear white folks walking around calling each other whitey, and I don't hear Mexicans walking around calling each other cholo, beaner, or worse. So why is it okay for Blacks/African Americans to use the "N" word when referring to each other? I've heard Black educators, business people, politicians and entertainers all bemoan the fact that this is happening and it does nothing for the African American image (if that's the right word). CH is not the place to be having this discussion, so consider my question/comment rhetorical. Just sayin' there's a double standard at work here that needs to be examined, that's all.

                                                                  1. re: DiningDiva

                                                                    Did you READ the actual deposition? The lawsuit is NOT about the word. That's just one anecdote.

                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                      I read what was posted on line at the time this story broke, and yes, I am aware that the lawsuit is not about use of the word.

                                                                      1. re: DiningDiva

                                                                        If you read the actual deposition, you know that this is not at all a case about a single indiscrete use of an ugly word and whether black folks should be allowed to use it if she can't get away with it, right?

                                                                        1. re: mcf

                                                                          What if Paula Deen, her family & entire executive staff were black?

                                                                          1. re: Tom34

                                                                            They're not. And despite all the sensationalism and knee jerk reactions; this is about employment conditions.

                                                                            Anyone of any race who'd engaged in the variety and frequency of abusive employment practices alleged here, though, would quite likely find themselves engaged in a similar lawsuit.

                                                                            1. re: mcf

                                                                              I wonder how all the behind the scenes employees in the entertainment & recording industry feel when they hear MUCH, MUCH worse on a daily basis. I guess we make exceptions for those employment conditions.

                                                                              1. re: Tom34

                                                                                Did you read the deposition? There are laws about acceptable work place policies and behavior. That's what the case is about.

                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                  So its acceptable in certain circumstances but not others. I think I see!

                                                                                  1. re: Tom34

                                                                                    Why is that a problem? It's not acceptable to go to work in a bathing suit, but it's acceptable to go to the beach in one. It's acceptable to eat fried chicken with your fingers at a picnic, but not in a four star restaurant. It's acceptabe to tell a risque joke to your buddes down at the bar, but not in church.

                                                                                    These are basic standards of appropriate behavior that at least most adults learn, and I really don't get why you're so worked up over them. It's not hypocrisy, it's maturity.

                                                                                    1. re: JonParker

                                                                                      JonParker, maybe Paula is not really a bad person but just has, um, a mental illness. That is the defense you used for Amy of ABC being a rotten person. Why not apply that same excuse in this case?

                                                                                      1. re: Fowler

                                                                                        I haven't seen any evidence that she's mentally ill, although it's entirely possible. If so I hope she gets the help she needs. I will say that Amy wasn't able to keep herself together long enough to film a single one hour TV show, while Ms. Deen has been shooting three at once. If she is ill, she's good at covering it up. And I'm not being snarky, that's entirely possible.

                                                                                      2. re: JonParker

                                                                                        The use of the "N" word and the other stereotypical material should not be tolerated under any circumstances. To equate that with when to wear a bathing suit, or when to lick your fingers is preposterous.

                                                                                      3. re: Tom34

                                                                                        Not if you think that's wrong. Of COURSE rules of conduct are situational; in this case they're encoded in the law.

                                                                                    2. re: Tom34

                                                                                      The lawsuit is about the workplace.

                                                                                      If your statement is that similar hostile work environments exist in the entertainment business - then those employees would have the ability to sue as well. However, this is not the same as calling the police with an anonymous tip of "this is a hostile work environment" - but rather hiring a lawyer, keeping a log of the incidents, and engaging legal action with your employer. In the entertainment industry, which is already difficult to get into, filing such a complaint would most likely be seen as a fast way out of the entertainment industry.

                                                                                      Not to mention, if you're working for a small entity that itself is not rich - suing might just serve to alienate yourself from that business and not even result in receiving much of a settlement. So when you say that "we" make those exceptions - it's moreso that the individual employees (who are perhaps subjected to a hostile work environment) make those exceptions.

                                                                                      The Deen case represents a situation where the employee could be sure that the corporation she worked for could pay - and also if she wants to get another job in the restaurant/hospitality industry - it's a large sector that is not highly exclusive. Not to mention, given the size of the claim - there's a solid chance she was likely to find an attorney to take the case for no money upfront with the understanding of taking x percentage of a settlement/fees assigned by the court.

                                                                                      Filing a claim of a hostile work environment is not the same as leaving an anonymous tip for Child Protective Services where they then do the rest and the tipster can remain anonymous.

                                                                                      1. re: cresyd

                                                                                        What he is saying is that if Paula's work environment can be considered hostile because she used the N word, why aren't employees of entertainment companies who promote rappers and comedians who use the word automatically guilty of it.

                                                                                        It's an argument that can only be made if you have the moral reasoning of a small child (and I don't mean that to be snarky -- children are very literal when it comes to right and wrong) and can't account for different circumstances, different meanings and different balances of power.

                                                                                        Under that reasoning, there is no moral difference between speeding though traffic for fun and speeding to get a passenger having a heart attack to a hospital. They are both speeding, speeding is against the law, therefore treating them differently is hypocritical. It's a mindset I can't really fathom but see enough of.

                                                                                        1. re: JonParker

                                                                                          For a start, you are correct that the difference of circumstance in how/when language is used is important. Someone's "artistic content" in a recorded album is different than how they treat production assistants. Similarly, if someone's working at Playboy and wants to attest to sexual harrassment - that has to include something other than seeing nude bodies on photo shoots (though if you worked at a Kinkos and there were nude photo shoots, you probably could sue for sexual harrassment).

                                                                                          However, my basic point is still really relevant. Let's say that employee X is working for a production company. In addition to the content of an album being "adult" - that adult language is used in how employees in the studio are refered to, talked about, etc. Employee X feels uncomfortable with this. Employee X would have to hire an attorney and sue for a hostile workplace. Whether or not they'd be successful - it'd be a fast ticket out of the entertainment business.

                                                                                          So while the context of offensive language in the creation of "art" is different - so too is the risk of what legal action will do the employee's career.

                                                                                          1. re: JonParker

                                                                                            To equate speeding and placing the public's well being in jeopardy during a life threatening situation to speeding for fun is laughable. Try again. Amusing, but irrelevant.

                                                                                            1. re: Tom34

                                                                                              Well, you see my point, but not how it relates to what you said.

                                                                                              Two words that don't mean the same thing: equate & compare.

                                                                                          2. re: cresyd

                                                                                            OK, its about the money!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                        2. re: mcf

                                                                                          My guess is that it is more frequent than most would imagine and more severe. Want to hear abuse, allow illegals the same rights to bring lawsuits. I seriously doubt anybody lost any sleep or was prescribed Valium to calm their nerves in the Deen case. This is about following a rainbow to a pot of gold, for which the Deen's have nobody to blame but themselves.

                                                                              2. re: JonParker

                                                                                Totally agree.

                                                                                This is an employment discrimination issue

                                                                                1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                  Employer discrimination issue? What about employee discrimination against an employer?

                                                                                  Consider this: When someone grows up in a certain “racial environment” (she was born in Georgia in 1947), it is rare that all of the “attitudes” attached to that environment are left behind completely in that culture in less than a century or more. It takes three generations for families to adjust to abrupt change in the family’s coming into wealth or sudden loss of wealth, and sometimes that long when it comes to cultural changes. PD is from a less-than-wealthy background, grew up at a time when The South was still resentful of losing the Civil War, and the culture among the less educated (non-professional) people held on to the “slave culture” mentality of the deep south. Lynchings were still happening. Blacks were still considered “sub human” and a threat to “whites”. I know that for a fact because I witnessed it first hand when my husband and I were sent to Biloxi, Mississippi, in 1956 while he went to Air Traffic Control School at Keesler Air Force Base. It was my first trip out of California. For the first (and hopefully last) time in my life I had to contend with segregated drinking fountains, segregated restrooms (come on! When you gotta go you gotta go, and who cares who’s in the next stall?), and I almost got myself lynched when I stopped to help a black woman who I had accidentally bumped into through my own carelessness and sent her Christmas packages sprawling all over the sidewalk. I was told by passersby not to help that n----r, and the poor woman whispered to me, “Thank you, Child, but you go on now before you gets us both into terrible trouble! But thankye.” I walked away crying. And no, it was not just Mississippi. I know for a fact that this atmosphere was status quo throughout all of the former Confederate States.

                                                                                  Paula Deen comes from a working class background. The U.S. had just “abruptly” come out of the Great Depression by way of World War Two when she was born. My point is that even after the Civil Rights movement (1955 to 1968), and the forceful end of segregation when she was a young woman, this way of thinking did not just vanish into thin air, and all was suddenly right with the world. While many in the Deep South, Paula Deen included, gave up segregation physically and tried to be “politically correct,” that does not mean that the mean and cruel humor of segregation and the resentment that still echoes to this day about losing the Civil War all vanished as well.

                                                                                  So, bottom line is Paula Deen is as much a victim of her environment as she is of the Food Network firing her. The woman *IS* a hard worker! She works 24/7, BUT… She and she alone has turned herself into a caricature of what Dolly Parton describes as “Poor White Trash,” with the wigs (my god, I HOPE they are wigs!) and more make-up than any Ru Paul Drag Queen. The “ya’ll” drawl is thicker than any other living “Southern Lady” I know of, not that Southern Ladies ever really talked like her in the first place.

                                                                                  And you’re right. I am not a Paula Deen fan. But these are not the reasons why. I have not been a Paula Deen fan from the get-go BECAUSE she has been hyping a dangerous diet under the pretense of “love.” If you love people, you don’t serve them the proverbial “Heart Attack on a Plate” every chance you get. But it sold, and the Food Network SOLD her and her diet!

                                                                                  Is the Food Network bad? You betcha! They pitch gluttony and excess, damned little “intelligent gourmet,” and they laugh all the way to the bank.

                                                                                  However, I suspect Paula Deen has been a thorn in their side for some time now. I suspect there is a whoooooooooole lot of politics going on. But after seeing those pictures of Paula Deen riding on What’s His Name’s back playing cowboy, and licking whipped cream off his navel, (and those are pictures from 2011!), well, I suspect Paula Deen has done a whole lot to alienate a WHOLE LOT of people on the Network(s) side of the curtain. How many times have they told her to “tone it down”? And… ummm… why does anyone need to tell her that?

                                                                                  I do suspect that she has serious stress related problems, but she has had advisors all along. In my opinion, she has to look in a mirror to see the person who is ultimately and wholly responsible for this mess. And I feel great great compassion for her sons.

                                                                                  1. re: Caroline1

                                                                                    Hi Caroline,

                                                                                    You brought out many very interesting and relevant points. Very, very difficult and sensitive subject transcending many generations. One thing that comforts me is that each generation seems to be more tolerant of people that are perceived as being different. Given we are the melting pot of the world, I think we have done a remarkable job but change does take time. Our local High School has so many diverse clubs and the tolerance is incredible compared to years past. There most certainly will be bumps in the road, but I think the road leads in the right direction.

                                                                                    1. re: Caroline1

                                                                                      Thank you for such an eloquent analysis, Caroline1.

                                                                              3. re: Breadcrumbs

                                                                                Gawker has worked to collect all the responses of people who right now are mad at FN for canceling her show.

                                                                                Not to mention that there are numerous American celebrities caught in horrible criminal acts who have comeback chapters. Chris Brown is an example of someone caught/pled guilty - has barely apologized or appeared contrite - and still has a music career.

                                                                                If Chris Brown can win another Grammy Award - Paula Deen will find another television station to take her in, IF that's what she wants. I think a huge test is that a previously taped episode of Masterchef involves Paula Deen. This is a competition program, so completely dropping the episode could be quite difficult. So when this episode airs, it'll be interesting to see how it's edited - how much face time? Are the judges/contestants shown being physically affectionate? How much is she praised? Is she nearly entirely cut from the episode? Do they entirely cut the episode despite really messing with the show's continuity? This episode will air in a month or so.....and will be a good test with how a large network wants to deal with her.

                                                                          2. re: KrumTx

                                                                            Martha Stewart went to jail, Kobe Bryant's legal troubles - not to mention all of the politicians chased out of office for one reason or another and make it back into the public eye or even be re-elected.

                                                                            I don't think she'll be get a new show in the next year, or if she does that it'll necessarily be on FN. But there are lots of smaller networks looking to get a piece of the pie and get attention. And after a year from now, there will be a new person out there who's offended more.

                                                                            If she wants to make it back, there will be an opportunity for her. I firmly believe that.

                                                                            1. re: cresyd

                                                                              I agree that it's certainly possible. I don't watch much FN anymore - Ina and Next Iron Chef are the only ones I like, but I'll be the-most-naive-person-on-the-planet and say I hope FN fills Paula's slot with someone who can actually teach me to be a better cook.

                                                                              1. re: KrumTx

                                                                                Food Network will probably hire Jerry Springer and stage food fights. ;-)

                                                                                1. re: KrumTx

                                                                                  HA!!! They don't have those on Food Network, I have learned things from Anne Burrell and I do like Ina, but the rest of them .... good grief, but Food Network - instruct??????? LOL

                                                                          3. re: Jpan99

                                                                            I think Food Network needs to distance itself from the eye of the storm. If they don't react in some positive way it makes them look just as bad. When things calm down, in a year or two, I bet she shows up again with some new gimmick. Like someone said, if Martha can go to prison and come back even stronger, who knows what's possible!

                                                                            1. re: Jpan99

                                                                              It won't even take that long. Out of the news cycle by the end of the weekend, self-righteous finger pointing aimed in another direction in a month, Paula makes amends by the end of the year. This time next year it's a distant memory.

                                                                              1. re: Samalicious

                                                                                I dunno. Being publicly painted as a racist is different than insider trading.

                                                                          4. Curious how it will effect Bobby's show.

                                                                            3 Replies
                                                                            1. re: ennuisans

                                                                              I don't think that Paula is going to be tasting Bobby's magically teleporting food.

                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                "I'm sitting here looking at a big plate of crow, Bobby!"

                                                                              2. re: ennuisans

                                                                                Would he even have a show if his name were Bobby Wilson or Bobby Smith? He got a show because Paula is his mother.

                                                                              3. this is the most publicity food network has ever got. she'll be back on soon enough.

                                                                                1. So now we will see even more Diners, Driveins and Dives? The Food Network has gone so down hill it's not the same station any more.

                                                                                  So what if she once or twice years ago used the N word. She has a black man who works for her in a high position, she has lots of black friends and does good work in the community.

                                                                                  You hear rappers using the N word all the time in their songs - that's okay? I'm a 60 yr old white southern woman and I find that offensive.

                                                                                  I disagree with everyone - dumb move Food Network! How about spending your time developing some new shows?

                                                                                  17 Replies
                                                                                  1. re: Jeanne

                                                                                    Much as I dislike Paula's voice and her recipes, I too wonder at how little people seem to remember how things were in the 60s. Many of us boomers remember our elders saying things that would set your hair on fire today.

                                                                                    1. re: DGresh

                                                                                      I am a boomer - like Paula - and that is undoubtedly true, but it was our elders who were saying those things. Not us.

                                                                                      1. re: chicgail

                                                                                        >>>I am a boomer - like Paula - and that is undoubtedly true, but it was our elders who were saying those things. Not us.<<<

                                                                                        Please speak for your own elders and not "our elders". My elders never said those things and I am sure there are many others here whose elders never said such things.


                                                                                        1. re: Fowler

                                                                                          <"I am sure there are many others here whose elders never said such things.">

                                                                                          You are so right, Fowler. I never heard Any disparaging remarks about Anyone from "my elders". Quite the opposite, in fact.

                                                                                          1. re: Gio

                                                                                            There are all kinds of experiences that people have with family members and others. I was born in the south in the early 50's and certainly heard "people" say those words. Not my parents or even my relatives. But I've heard them said. I'm not sure what sort of judgment is being made here.

                                                                                            1. re: Gio

                                                                                              >>>You are so right, Fowler. I never heard Any disparaging remarks about Anyone from "my elders". Quite the opposite, in fact.<<<

                                                                                              But we are not talking about any simple "disparaging remarks".

                                                                                                1. re: Gio

                                                                                                  Sorry, Gio and thanks for the clarification. I thought you were being sarcastic. One of the downsides of trying to communicate through the internet where we cannot see body language or hear tone of voice.

                                                                                                  1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                    That's OK, Fowler... I agree w you.

                                                                                            2. re: Fowler

                                                                                              I was responding to DGresh's comment about what "our elders" said. Yes, it was my elders (and others) who said it. Nice to know that your elders didn't.

                                                                                              1. re: chicgail

                                                                                                I never heard that word once from anyone in my extended family, ever.

                                                                                          2. re: DGresh

                                                                                            I think this behavior is recognized as unacceptable today precisely because people _do_ remember, or they are taught, how things were in the 60s and earlier. Decent people look back and acknowledge the mistakes society made; PD looks back and thinks "Wasn't plantation life just wonderful? Let's recreate it!"

                                                                                            1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                              That's what strikes me, too. It seems that Paula romanticizes the Antebellum South and while I'm sure that it was wonderful as a white person to be catered to by black staff/slaves, the imbalance in society was raging at the time. I wouldn't want to recreate that.
                                                                                              I can not imagine saying "I want all the serving staff to be black".
                                                                                              I kind of, sort of get that there may have been just an innocent desire to recreate a time long gone by.

                                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                                Thank God I've not been paying enough attention to know, but was this plantation dinner thing fairly recent? If so, I drop the small shred of defense I was offering her.

                                                                                                1. re: DGresh

                                                                                                  Wedding was in 2007 (brother's wedding).

                                                                                                  1. re: drongo

                                                                                                    Did this wedding actually happen, according to their plantation plan? If so, there must be photos out there somewhere…

                                                                                                    1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                      She said that she was discouraged from going through with it, because people might "misunderstand."

                                                                                                      Given the photos that withnail42 linked to, I'm not sure I could take anymore Paula pics right now anyways.

                                                                                        2. Now who's going to take care of Bobby and Jamie?

                                                                                          3 Replies
                                                                                          1. re: Withnail42

                                                                                            They're kicking around ideas for a new show - "Not my mom's racial slurs"

                                                                                            1. re: porker

                                                                                              "I've brought in my good friend Snoop Lion to help with the izzle. We gotta get us some izzle in here."

                                                                                              1. re: porker

                                                                                                It will probably be more like, "Throw Mama From The Train". ;-)

                                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                                  Who also got sued for screwing his employees over.....

                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                    We've already had that discussion over on the other thread. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/9065... That he got sued is indicative of nothing.

                                                                                                2. re: romansperson

                                                                                                  Found this comic on Bourdain's Twitter page
                                                                                                  Rat Speaks tribute to Bourdain

                                                                                                3. An interesting analysis of the timing of the leak of the deposition (only one party could have leaked it) and speculation about the Food Network's real motivation in not renewing Deen's contract.

                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                    Ah. I see. It's all a conspiracy by liberal eastern media to exacerbate racial tension. Who ARE these people? Sheeesh!

                                                                                                    1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                      That is a humor/parody website, right?

                                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                        Wow. Not only are all his points easily rebutted, but, well, it's insane ranting. Good grief.

                                                                                                        He has a minor point with the FOH/BOH bathroom thing, but the rest is just nuts.

                                                                                                        1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                          Yeah, as soon as I saw "State Media" and an "Institutional Left Conspiracy" I could see where this was going. If only...

                                                                                                        2. I'm fascinated that there are still about 8 posts a minute on the FB page for Food Network. The vast majority supporting Paula and saying they will boycott FN and it's advertisers.

                                                                                                          Do you think it will really have any impact on the network or sponsors?

                                                                                                          12 Replies
                                                                                                          1. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                            I think it will encourage another network to pick her up. With that many fans why not?

                                                                                                            1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                              I have to admit that the FB support is more than I would have thought.

                                                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                She made FN a ton of money. She has a lot of fans.

                                                                                                                1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                  I think she has a lot of folks with no interest in food posting in her defense, too.

                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                    I think you nailed it. She's become the poster child for "political correctness run amok" for those who like to get exercised about that.

                                                                                                                    1. re: DGresh

                                                                                                                      LOL! Wouldn't it be interesting to see a demographic of those who are logging on to FB to support her?

                                                                                                              2. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                I think any network and programming exec worth his/her weight in Nielsen ratings is going to take a hard look at whether the support is real...i.e. will translate into actual viewers...or simply people piling on to the scandal du jour.

                                                                                                                I also think they're going to wait until the furor passes, stick a toe in the water and see what happens. She may not have done irreparable damage to her brand but she has put a pretty big dent in it. Time will tell if that dent can be pounded out or not. Tanya Harding, Mel Gibson and John Edwards would seem to indicate the road to redemption may be pretty steep.

                                                                                                              3. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                hopefully they are people paid by the butter industry to keep sales up.

                                                                                                                1. re: moonbeam2013

                                                                                                                  Looks like butter sales are up, but I not sure it's any thinks to PD.

                                                                                                                  "Butter's Back -- Sales Rise as Consumers Seek Pure Ingredients"

                                                                                                                  Over all oil and fat retail market is down, but butter has gained against margarine. The only FN mention has to do with Pinoneer Woman ads for a Land of Lakes butter spread with olive oil and sea salt.

                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                    I do recall Ree mentioning early last year her contract with the Land O Lakes gourmet butter line. A few commercials have already run.

                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                      I use butter all the time. It's probably the #1 fat used in my kitchen. Olive oil is #2. That said, butter with olive oil sounds disgusting. My mom had a jar of Hellman's mayo with olive oil which also sounded terrible. I love olive oil, but not as the Only True Fat.

                                                                                                                      My first exposure to Ms. Deen was in waiting rooms and at my mom's house. I kept going "who is this woman? does she put butter in everything?"

                                                                                                                      Healthy eating is using what you need when you need it, eschewing processed foods, and treating cooking and eating as an adventure. I'm not interested in depriving myself just so I can enjoy an extra month of laughing at the fact that my kids now have to change MY diapers, but neither am I interested in hastening that day by eating food that is clearly unhealthy and most of the time, not really delicious.

                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                        I tried the Land O Lakes olive oil version (likely with a coupon) and found it too salty actually. So, after that I did not give the other flavors a go.

                                                                                                                        I enjoy butter and olive oil and I don't look to public figures of any kind to help me decide what products to buy.

                                                                                                                        Mom raised free thinkers.

                                                                                                              4. There are many people who are rushing to PD's defense at her restaurant...


                                                                                                                11 Replies
                                                                                                                  1. re: Gio

                                                                                                                    And in contrast, another shoe has dropped. More allegations are surfacing:


                                                                                                                    1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                      Eater also claimed that few people were patronizing Lady and Sons on Saturday


                                                                                                                      Anyone care reconcile the the NYT coverage and this?

                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                        Different times of day. Saturday morning before the restaurant opened and Saturday afternoon when it was open. Don't see any people of color in line in the NY Times photo.

                                                                                                                        1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                          The eater photo had a sign out in front saying it was closed. Hence, no line

                                                                                                                          1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                            You must have great eyes. I don't see it.

                                                                                                                            1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                              Click on the second picture down. The one with three ladies. Right between the two to the left. Notice they are standing apart from the black lady. I think they are also racist.

                                                                                                                              Good catch on the sign, firegoat.

                                                                                                                              1. re: kengk

                                                                                                                                Thank you. I've always been complimented on my attractive eyes!

                                                                                                                                1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                  LOL! I see a sign with the letters SO.... that's all I can read.

                                                                                                                                  Does that sign say Sorry, we are closed? Maybe it says SOS, I need PR and legal help.

                                                                                                                                  Seriously, I wonder what's up...? If that sign does say Sorry we're closed, Eater needs to explain that.

                                                                                                                                2. re: kengk

                                                                                                                                  Why all the disturbingly LARGE posters of her everywhere inside that place?

                                                                                                                          2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                            I have been by there dozens of times. I've never personally seen a line "several blocks long". Not saying it hasn't happened but not when we were in the area, usually more like 50-100 people at lunch time.

                                                                                                                            Also, the whole area looks deserted, it is usually crowded with cars and sightseers whether they are waiting in line or not.

                                                                                                                        1. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                          Wow, not that Smithfield has the moral high ground, but...
                                                                                                                          Last I read, QVC was still wavering, seeing how the wind blows.

                                                                                                                          1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                            And it was noted on another thread that while Home Depot doesn't advertise directly on PD's shows, they were asking TFN to ensure that their ads don't run in conjunction with her shows.

                                                                                                                            Which, given that the shows have been removed from the air, shouldn't be much of a potential issue anymore.

                                                                                                                            1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                              In that article, it also mentioned that prior to FN's notification of not renewing her contract that Unilever (which did advertise during her shows) announced that they would discontinue to advertise during her shows.

                                                                                                                          2. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                            And the backlash continues on Facebook but now it's also directed to Smithfield. Looks like there is going to be a surplus of pork products on the market as everyone seems to be swearing off Smithfield ham!

                                                                                                                            1. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                              I wonder how many of thos FB posters swearing off Smithfield ham actually buy the products? Are they really losing customers or are these people just part of the "me to"brigade?

                                                                                                                              1. re: DiningDiva

                                                                                                                                I think any smart business at this point isn't taking the FB stuff too seriously.

                                                                                                                                Going back to Deen's diabetes controversy last year - I'd guess there's a CH post out there about the issue with me commenting about how I disagree with Deen's choice, presentation, business, recipes, etc. Perhaps loudly.

                                                                                                                                But the reality is that I have never watched her shows, bought her cookbooks, bought a Smithfield ham, etc. So any comments I made about her at the time in no way reflected on her business's success. Similarly, a lot of the FB voices are people happy to have a platform to talk about "political correctness gone wild" and other less savory ideas. Now how much of their money had gone to Deen's enterprise in the past (or will in the future) - who knows. I certainly wouldn't make a major business move because of it.

                                                                                                                                1. re: cresyd

                                                                                                                                  "Similarly, a lot of the FB voices are people happy to have a platform to talk about "political correctness gone wild" and other less savory ideas. "

                                                                                                                                  EXACTLY my point

                                                                                                                                2. re: DiningDiva

                                                                                                                                  "Are they really losing customers or are these people just part of the "me to"brigade?"

                                                                                                                                  I was thinking something similar. During the Chick-fil-A debacle a news station was interviewing random people asking what they thought. One of the women they interviewed said that she eats there all of the time but was now officially boycotting Chick-fil-A. Well, when the cameras stopped rolling and they asked her to sign the waiver with her name and address so they could air her comments, it turned out she lived something like 400 miles from the nearest Chick-fil-A.

                                                                                                                                  There are some people out there that simply like to jump on the bandwagon. It makes them feel like they are a part of something and can claim to be holier-than-thou. In this case it is backfiring on them. They are boycotting advertisers who do not want their products associated with a racist pig like Paula Deen.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                    "There are some people out there that simply like to jump on the bandwagon. It makes them feel like they are a part of something and can claim to be holier-than-thou"

                                                                                                                                    Kind of like here?

                                                                                                                                    1. re: kengk

                                                                                                                                      kengk, I have participated on many internet boards over the years and the people on CH, in general, are significantly less sanctimonious than the people on some of those other boards. YMMV.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                          Yeah, Fowler, who are you to tell me I'm not as sanctimonious as people on other boards? I can out-sanctimony them any day!

                                                                                                                                          1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                            Then feel free to cite examples, rasputina. As I said to kengk: YMMV.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                              I just don't think that people are magically different just because they are posting on chowhound than anywhere else. It's that simple.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                                Oh I agree. The people here are not "magically different" and I am sorry to hear that you think they are just as sanctimonious as some of the jerks on other boards. I guess I perhaps do no notice it as much as you do here because it is never aimed towards me. If for some reason you are a magnet for those kinds of sanctimonious reactions then yes I could understand why you think there are a bunch of sanctimonious people here. No one here has ever pulled that kind of attitude with me.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                  You are making a whole lot of assumptions and I have no idea where they are coming from. I don't think anyone is being sanctimonious to me.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                                    That is precisely why I politely asked you for examples but you failed to do that. It is almost impossible to discuss an issue with someone when all they will say is "I beg to differ" while refusing to provide examples we can assess.

                                                                                                                                                    I stand by my original statement that in general the people here are less sanctimonious than some people on other boards I am familiar with.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                      No biggie, it's a free country and we don't have to agree.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                        I don't know if there is less sanctimony on Chowhound, but the discourse is certainly more civil than on a newsgroup in which I have almost stopped participating (it has been taken over by one jerk). I participate on a political discussion board that has heated exchanges every day. They use a jury system to moderate and it does not seem to work too well.

                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                      You must butter your bread correctly.

                                                                                                                                                    3. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                                      It's not that people are different because they're posting on Chowhound. It's that different people choose to post on Chowhound.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                        Jon, you had better quickly copyright that statement before a certain entity steals it and uses it as their own! :-)

                                                                                                                                          2. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                                            Hmmm. Think I'm feeling a bit hungry for a Smithfield ham sammich.

                                                                                                                                          3. Well.....it's a good start. FN just keeps on dumbing down its programming, it has become MTV the culinary version. It has become unwatcheable.

                                                                                                                                            What is scary, aside from SOME (emphasis on some) Chopped episodes and Iron Chef, the closest thing resembling real food oriented things is.......dare I say it.......Triple D. I mean some of the places are real cheeseball (as is the host) and I don't find putting chili on a hotdog to be that earth shattering and how many ways can you show a hamburger? That being said, there are some interesting and legit places he goes to.

                                                                                                                                            But man it is just garbage. Deen, her nitwit sons, RI, Cupcake Wars, won't you please come back Emeril?? I would rather watch that poor David Rosengarten production that used to run when FN first arrived on cable.

                                                                                                                                            I don't know where FN does their market research, but like most entertainment outlets in America, it is the lowest common denominator. Christ, that big fat chef who loves bacon is a more interesting show than what FN has been serving up.

                                                                                                                                            8 Replies
                                                                                                                                            1. re: Owtahear

                                                                                                                                              Hey, I used to love that David Rosengarten show, back in the day...

                                                                                                                                              Haven't watched the Food Network in about 10 years now, but even 10 years ago, they were moving away from cooking shows and toward... well, I don't know what to call them, but shows that featured restaurants, or how candy is made, or whatever, but not about cooking at home.

                                                                                                                                              Remember Sarah Moulton?

                                                                                                                                              I think of all the talented cooks out there who could do a great show on real cooking to replace Paula Deen, especially from the South. If someone like, say Scott Peacock had a show, I sure would watch. Now there is a guy who can represent the South and our culinary traditions. Or if we want a more contemporary twist, someone like Edward Lee would be interesting.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: MelMM

                                                                                                                                                Edward Lee's new cookbook is definitely on my list! I think it must be a great read. I did see the Deen boys on CNN New Day this morning online.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                  The new Edward Lee book is indeed as much of a joy to read as it is to cook from.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JoanN

                                                                                                                                                    Well it looks like I'm off to the bookstore on my lunch hour to see if it carries it.... I love the description and I enjoyed him a lot on Top Chef.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                      I have a copy and really like it.

                                                                                                                                                      You can have a look at Edward Le's book here: http://booksaboutfood.com/bookreview/...

                                                                                                                                                      This is my new 'to go to' site for food books.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Withnail42

                                                                                                                                                        Very cool! Thank you for the link!

                                                                                                                                              2. re: Owtahear

                                                                                                                                                Ugh, Cupcake Wars. I can't tell if they try find people who are "kooky and fun" at least in their outfits, or if they tell people to dress up like a Japanese teenager when they're on the show. And so much food goes to waste, which, I know all tv shows do that, but it just seems especially obvious with making 1,000 cupcakes that no one is going to eat, and then making them again for their special event. And the lack of hairnets!

                                                                                                                                                1. re: zitronenmadchen

                                                                                                                                                  From a health standpoint, even if all those cupcakes were eaten by needy souls, it would still be a waste.

                                                                                                                                              3. Ok, Paula Deen has had her 15 minutes of flame. Now I'm tired of hearing about it.

                                                                                                                                                15 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                    Me three, at least until after her Today appearance. If she's got any smarts, she'll accept Whoopi Goldberg's direct invitation to the few for a promised fair hearing (and likely sensitive education). Seriously.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                      I think she should be publicly flogged by a committee made up of Sharpton, Wright & Farrakhan.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                        Al Sharpton has already spoken out on Paula's behalf.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                          The only time he comes out of his hole is when he smells a profit. What say he?

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                        Seriously? You have got to be kidding me.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                            mcf - when you mentioned Whoopie and "the few" I thought you meant "The View" in jest. Since that's her regular show.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                              I did mean The View! Ever since I've been a quart low on estrogen I've been misspelling homophones. So embarrasing!

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                Just so you know. I was responding to your "few View" post and then you came back with a link to Al Sharpton and I thought what the heck? I still stand my ground that PD does Not need to show up on The View. Hopefully her PR people know better.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: miss_belle

                                                                                                                                                                  I think that she'd have had a much more nuanced conversation on The View, but I don't think she's clued in enough to really help herself here.

                                                                                                                                                                  I don't know what the Sharpton response with fact vs. imagination has to do with The View.

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                              If there is anyone does not want their past brought up it is Sharpton.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Withnail42

                                                                                                                                                                I'm sure that's why he empathized... when he blew it, he blew it BIG time.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                  Reminds me of the the post battle wedding scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. When the King sees an opportunity to make a land deal.
                                                                                                                                                                  'This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not argue about who killed who...'

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                          Well, me three, actually. Enough has been said at this point. However, PD's actions and comments will be recorded for some time, I fear, especially after her appearance tomorrow on The Today Show.

                                                                                                                                                      3. It's pretty ironic for her to tell some back story about how she came from humble beginnings making bagged lunches and selling them door to door when in reality she's making $30MM a year shilling crap and romanticizing about the old days of slavery. Screw her. Good riddance. She literally lived through milestones in the civil rights era, and says crap like this?!

                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Atomic76

                                                                                                                                                          Well said. I think to myself, "oh wow, this woman is being flogged", and she's losing endorsements and jobs by the minute, but crap, what did she ever do to deserve all these riches? It's a disgusting parade of riches.

                                                                                                                                                        2. She made a mistake. She acknowledges what she said was wrong. Isn't that all we can really ask for? She can't go back to that time when someone held a gun to her head and she referred to him in a less than positive manner. And to be frank, I probably wouldn't have been too nice myself. But she did acknowledge that her behavior will not be repeated and it isn't who she is today. I honestly believe that.

                                                                                                                                                          39 Replies
                                                                                                                                                          1. re: deputygeorgie

                                                                                                                                                            If the problem was just the language then it'd be a case apologizing, accepting the apology - but this is stemming from a law suit where her corporation (in specific the restaurant managed part-owned by her brother, but part of her larger business) created a hostile workplace. The language used was part of the hostile workplace, but isn't the only issue. Not to mention that the case has yet to be settled/completed.

                                                                                                                                                            Michael Richards used the same language in response to a heckling fan, Imus used racially and sexually charged language in talking about the Rutgers women's basketball team (and also lost his job), but Deen is accused to using such language as part of contributing to the creation of a hostile workplace. Which makes this specific case different.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: deputygeorgie

                                                                                                                                                              Seriously believe that was the ONLY time she used the N word?
                                                                                                                                                              She LIED. Then spewed bible verses. Might as well have invoked Godwin's law and be done with it.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                Am I the only one that is completely sick and tired of seeing grown professional adults keep saying "the N word." We're adults people. Nigger Nigger Nigger. There. I said it. It's just a word. If you're afraid of the power of a simple word then it isn't just the word it might be something else. Why is this the ONLY word we're afraid to say? I don't refer to the J word or the C word or the P word or the F word I just say it.
                                                                                                                                                                I'm sure this will be deleted. But seriously people. We're giving this word too much power.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                  There are historical and emotional ties to That Word, Firegoat, that some people just can't leave behind...

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                    Words are never "just" words. They convey meanings, sometimes very powerful meanings.

                                                                                                                                                                    I curse like a rock star a lot of the time, although I know when it's not appropriate. But cursing, while it may offend, does not have the same power to degrade and hurt someone. Using the F word does not have a history of slavery, of lunch counter segregation, of being counted as 3/5 of a real person.

                                                                                                                                                                    Here's something I find really interesting though. One place the N word doesn't have that kind of power is among teenagers. I see teens, both white and black, using it with impunity. They do so for one reason, really -- because it upsets adults.

                                                                                                                                                                    But they have always grown up in an integrated society. And so will their children, and so on. It will not be long before that word will have lost all it's power to offend; like "gadzooks," which is a contraction of "god's wounds" and was at one time considered pretty strong profanity.

                                                                                                                                                                    But that time is not now. And I refrain from using it not because it might offend, which I really don't care about, but because it might hurt, and that's something I would not do willingly.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                      IIRC the abbreviation of god's wounds was 'zounds. gadzooks is "god's hooks" ie nails (and ok that one I had to look up). Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ennuisans

                                                                                                                                                                        I've about had it up to here with the two of you writing out G-d's name in full. A little respect here!

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ennuisans

                                                                                                                                                                          Without looking it up I can tell you that you are correct and I was wrong. A failing memory is a terrible thing.

                                                                                                                                                                          However, the point still stands.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                          <"And I refrain from using it not because it might offend, which I really don't care about, but because it might hurt, and that's something I would not do willingly.">

                                                                                                                                                                          This is how I feel...

                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                          I agree. I would never call anyone "nigger," but when referring to the word, I say nigger. I don't think calling it "The N-Word" mitigates any of the ugliness associated with it, and of course anyone who would call people niggers would never say, "Hey, N-Word..." or "that N-Word..."

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                            Exactly my point. That isn't a word I would call someone but I feel like I can have an adult discussion about the word "nigger" and actually say the word. I apologize if I offended anyone but I think it's stupid we keep calling it the "N-Word" like we're all going to die ala Harry Potter for saying that.... crap.. he who can't be named? I forget. Long time ago.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                              Wait. Harry Potter DIES?

                                                                                                                                                                              Well, geez. Thanks for ruining the ending for me, Firegoat. :-P

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                I am literally laughing out loud after reading your reply, Linda. :-) I am glad to see that you bring a sense of humor to the discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                                As far as you, firegoat...perhaps begin your responses with something like ***spoilers alert*** if you are going to tell us stuff like Harry Potter dies or there is not really a Tooth Fairy.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                  GET OUT OF TOWN!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                  :::sniff:::: No Tooth Fairy? I just don't wanna know about the Easter Bunny, the Leprechaun and his pot o' gold, or Santy Claws.

                                                                                                                                                                                  ::::Veruca Salt foot stomp::::

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for lightening things up, Linda.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I know, I know - if I don't like seeing the word, I should stay away from the thread. But I cringe even reading the word. My dad would have knocked me out of my chair if I'd ever said it, and rightfully so. His parents - born 1910s, would have done the same thing to him.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                      I used to have a cat named Sandy Claws, and I can assure you, Sandy Claws IS dead!

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                      Okay for now on all my posts shall start with "No tooth fairies or characters in a fictional book die in this post."

                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                      I about laughed myself to death. Much like that beautiful woman in Downton Abbey. But not so pretty-like.

                                                                                                                                                                                    4. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                      The only times in my life I can recall using the word was when I was interpreting and describing someone else's attempts at plausible denial into terms I felt they really intended. Just so they knew it wasn't plausible.

                                                                                                                                                                                    5. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you remember the backlash when a very committed non racist in D.C, I think, used the work "niggardly" about budget cuts?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Just because folks *thought* he'd used the wrong word?


                                                                                                                                                                                      It's a hot button sound, not just a word.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                        I would argue it's not so much that it's a hot button sound as that we Americans have limited vocabularies. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                          I can definitely make the argument for both... :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                    6. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                      firegoat, did you say you were a lawyer?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                          Then I can no longer be nice to you.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Just kidding. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                            You'd think I'd be able to make Sue-shi

                                                                                                                                                                                            but I can't.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you know how many lawyer jokes there are?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Only three, the rest are true.

                                                                                                                                                                                    7. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                      And asking that someone pick up a stone, hit her in the head
                                                                                                                                                                                      and kill her? I'm sure that was sincere! The best thing she
                                                                                                                                                                                      can do at this point is just keep her mouth shut.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ferventfoodie

                                                                                                                                                                                        I just hate when anyone spews the old "cast the first stone" chestnut.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Does God not want us to judge anyone at anytime? Oh ok. I don't think that Charles Manson and Hitler are evil. No judgement from me!
                                                                                                                                                                                        I also think that calling others jealous because of her fame and fortune is a HUGE misstep.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                          Against my better judgment, I watched her Today Show appearance this morning, and I was rather disappointed in Matt Lauer's (sp?) interview skills! While she was protesting the wrong and distortion being heaped upon her, I very much wanted Lauer to simply ask whether all races and genders in her restaurants are paid equally for the same job done. But when I turned off the TV and gave it a bit more thought, maybe Lauer was aware that he was not talking to a rational human being. She had serious verbal diarrhea this morning, and probably would have cried, had he asked her.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, I'm ready to put this away And maybe the Food Network too... "Chopped" all night long? Come Really? Play some old Batalli shows or something. <sheesh>

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Caroline1

                                                                                                                                                                                            Was not Batalli involved in a tip skimming scandal ripping off his wait staff who barely scratched out a living working hours that nobody else wants to. I guess now days what you say is more important than what you do.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                              Please stop perpetuating the story without reading up on the background of it. There's a single lawyer in a single law firm who has brought innumerable suits in Manhattan against only the most well-know chefs and restaurant owners. It's a tip-sharing dispute between staff and management. It's not an individual chef involved in an individual scandal. And there are lots of discussions about it here on CH, the broadest overview, and one specific to Batali, is here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/722569

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JoanN

                                                                                                                                                                                                OK, its fine to take statements out of context & perpetuate stories about Deen long before the facts are on the table and the accusers cross examined and Deen support witness brought forward. I guess its the nature of the accusations and the need to somehow feel morally cleansed. Maybe she is a rotten human being, and if the FACTS show she is I would be the first to tell it to her face, but I am not going to cowardly bash her on a blog until some FACT finding has been done and we are a long way from that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sorry, Tom. I didn't make myself clear. I was talking about Batali, not Deen. Somehow the story that Batali (or Flay, or Vongerichten, or Nobu Matsuhisa) have been ripping off their staffs and stealing tips has become commonly accepted to be true. But that isn't quite what happened. I don't care for the way this story is presented, but it's too close to dinner time to try to find another and at least this gives a fairly clear overview of how the story was seen here in NYC: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/th...

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: JoanN

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just know over the years I have said and done many things that were interpreted in a manner very differently than was my intent. I have also been deposed many times and in each case they were one sided with extremely loaded questions where days were spent formulating the questions in an effort to extract desired answers. Was Deen wrong, it certainly appears to some extent she was but the bashing and Holier Than Thou attitude of many of the posters at this point in the investigation is unwarranted IMHO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And something to remember about depositions is they are allowed to ask a lot of questions that would never be allowed in court. Whether for lack of foundation or whatever reason. If you refuse to answer a question in a deposition it ends up shutting the whole deposition down while a phone call is made to the judge assigned to the case who is probably going to tell you to answer it anyway. I would guess if this case went to trial (which hopefully it won't) very little of what's in that deposition would be in evidence.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                            "also think that calling others jealous because of her fame and fortune is a HUGE misstep."

                                                                                                                                                                                            It's also a bit, dare I say it...judgey? God must be tsk'ing up a storm at her right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Nudibranch

                                                                                                                                                                                              HUGE mistake. It's so darn arrogant.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                        Good summary of the legal aspects, even without direct knowledge of the contracts.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                          As I am neither a fan nor show watcher, I have tried to stay out of this.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I clicked on the above link though, and thought "if making her food will make me look like ~that~ in a few years, then NO, thank you". She's kind of her own worst advertisement.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Perhaps Food Network just wanted to get rid of her and couldn't find an easy way to do it? Selling fat, orange and wrinkled to women is not an easy task.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: pedalfaster

                                                                                                                                                                                            Slow clap for the ad hominem attack.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm sure she's just big boned.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Bless her heart.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Mea culpa.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: pedalfaster

                                                                                                                                                                                              There are quite a few reports out there now that her ratings were dropping, especially in the most desirable demographic, and that her agent had been having difficulty getting FN to extend her contract which was due to expire imminently. This seems to have been just the excuse they were looking for.

                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                              I will give that lawyer an A+ grade for his ability to assume and speculate.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                He answered the questions he was asked based on his own knowledge of the contracts he's been involved with. He said "Although I have read the complaint, the deposition transcripts, and an enormous amount of the press coverage of the issues, I have not read the various agreements in question – I am responding based on the fact that I represent established chef-restaurateurs, entertainers and other public figures for a living, and so my responses are necessarily generalized on that basis."

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                  He does represent some other celebrity 'food people' so he probably has a basis of knowledge from which to do his speculating.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since her contract is up in two weeks, it's really easy for FN to cut her loose right away. I wonder what they would have done if she had just signed a three year deal worth millions of dollars? I suppose at that point there would some sort of buy-out to avoid a protracted legal battle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'd think that all of their "talent" signs some sort of "morality" clause that covers public scandal that effects their ability for Food Network to makes a bundle of money off them. But what do I know?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: rasputina

                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's why I mentioned a buy-out. It certainly would not be in FN's best interests to have a legal battle with her. I suppose she has made enough money so she could just quietly let her sons run their Savannah restaurant if they would choose to do so.

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. Ok, now Walmart has dropped Paula Deen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                7 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Phaedrus

                                                                                                                                                                                                  And there goes the will of most of the people threatening to boycott the businesses that have dumped her.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Phaedrus

                                                                                                                                                                                                    They were teetering on the edge. I suspect QVC won't be far behind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                      " I suspect QVC won't be far behind."

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please do not even joke about that. I still have my eye on that dull as a hammer head line of knives she peddles on QVC. How will I get to buy the set if QVC dumps her? :-(

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                        They will show up at clearance houses like Ollie in the midwest or Big Lots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Phaedrus

                                                                                                                                                                                                      She's also been dropped from Home Depot and Cesear Entertainment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It appears as though no one is out and out firing her - from Walmart they said: "We are ending our relationship with Paula Deen Enterprises and we will not place new orders beyond those already committed,” a Wal-Mart spokesperson said. “We will work with suppliers to address existing inventories and agreements."

                                                                                                                                                                                                      To be suspcious, for all we know they have two years remaining of orders placed that they'll still commit to - but it looks as though companies are being careful to let her go as opposed to firing her.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: cresyd

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Is 'firing' an appropriate term when the 'relationship' is a contract between two businesses? PD isn't an employee of any of these companies, not even FN.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The difference I was trying to explain was that instead of breaking contracts that they have with her, they're allowing contracts to lapse, not renewing, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Basically, thus far no one has said something to the effect of "technically our contract to you has us still owe you $XYZ, however we're breaking the contract as you've violated our morals clause." That's what I meant by using the terms "let go" vs. "fired".

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Here is an interesting take on the PD scandal compared with Food Network Star.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                                        This seems relevant to the situation at hand - and one in which she seems to have no clue that this is what she's done:

                                                                                                                                                                                                        "As James Poniewozik wrote at Time, "Deen made a pile of money off a certain idea of old-school southern culture. In return, she had an obligation to that culture — an obligation not to embody its worst, most shameful history and attitudes. Instead, in one swoop, fairly or not, she single-handedly affirmed people's worst suspicions of people who talk and eat like her."

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yannow, when do we stop calling folks either a "credit" or a "demerit" to their race? Is score keeping really the point?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I saw him making the same point on CNN, outraged that PD's views are so counter to his southern family's roots and upbringing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Paula alone is tarnished by her social/emotional tin ear, and the man who robbed her was solely responsible for his crime, not his whole race.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                            We don't know who that man was, and we have no reason to associate his actions with anyone beyond him. In contrast, PD is a household name and she (and her family/staff/handlers/advisers) deliberately constructed a persona around Southern cooking, being Southern, talking Southern, eating Southern, etc. For many of her viewers, she certainly does represent more than just herself. By her own choice, not necessarily by the choice of those represented. But many of her viewers no doubt do/did feel that she represented _them_ and their history and culture, culinary and otherwise. Some of those people may now feel betrayed, or who knows, recent events may be hitting a bit close to home. Which may explain the way some of her fans are doubling down to defend her.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just don't necessarily buy that folks adopted PD as their avatar. I may be proven wrong later, but she does not set the standard. Most folks seem to regard her as a caricature.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, a caricature that people relate to, because it magnifies the qualities (and it turns out, the less desirable aspects) of the South. So people might say "ok we don't actually put that much butter in it and we don't actually eat like that at every meal, but mmm mmm we do love our rich, fried foods, don't we?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                French people love Astérix and he embodies everything they like to believe about French history and the French character. But obviously anyone who actually acted like that would be in prison.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. So Paula's "fans" posted by the thousands on Food Network's FB page how they aren't going to watch any more. Then they posted on Smithfield's page how they aren't going to eat ham any more. Then Walmart, saying "I guess we'll shop at Target now." So, now Target has dropped Paula as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        What on earth are these folks going to do now? Soon they will run out of places to shop and foods to eat!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        29 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                                                                                                          and maybe then their lives will begin to improve

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Jpan99

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I find it interesting what her fans are choosing to be principled about in this instance...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: enbell

                                                                                                                                                                                                                When I was a kid there was a show on TV called The Love Boat. I am guessing her cruise is on the boat called The Hate Boat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't infer hate from any of the allegations, just lack of comprehension about how one can be racist despite lack of hate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think that's one of the most important things for folks (especially PD) to recognize in this case, when they're patting themselves on the back for being completely non racist due to lack of outright hostiliity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mcf, as always you make excellent points and I appreciate your polite response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In my opinion, people that support calling African-Americans "niggers" and treating them like dirt indicates to me that they are not only racists but have some hatred. And if they all want to get together and go on a cruise with Paula I guess I am just really thankful they are not partying it up with their white hoods and burning crosses where I live.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This. I've been reluctant to delve into this but I've been writing on this topic elsewhere. Of course Paula Deen is racist, as am I and pretty much every adult white person. It's important to realize that racism and bigotry are not the same thing. I don't hate people of other races, nor do I consider them inferior. I think discrimination is wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But the facts are that I grew up in a society where the children in books and on TV were white; where whiteness was considered "normal." To say that doesn't affect my thinking would prove me to be totally clueless, as Deen has.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My ex-wife is Native American -- it's not like I have issues with race. But there's a part of me that will always see white as the norm and all others as variations on that theme. I don't like it, and I try very hard to not let it affect my judgement, but it's there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If Paula had even an ounce of self awareness she could have used this as an opportunity to open a real dialog about race. Instead she chose to become defensive and invite us to throw rocks at her. It's a sadly wasted chance to be really open and honest about how race affects our society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      EDIT: I'll also add that using racism as a synonym for bigotry makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about the problems with the former. Most rational people agree that hatred and discrimination are wrong, but that doesn't clear up the multiple ways that unacknowledged racism affects both whites and blacks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Though reasonable people can differ on what it means to be racist, I personally wouldn't consider you racist simply for being entrenched in your normal generally white reality, unless your normal generally white reality includes believing in the inferiority of or having negative feelings toward - or even believing in the superiority of and kissing asses of - other people simply for their racial/ethnic background.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't even think it's racist to think or say that black people like fried chicken and watermelon or that yellow people eat dogs. Or to think or say that black people dance well, or that yellow people are overachievers. You can make positive, neutral, and negative race or ethnicity based observations stemming from your own worldview that may or may not empirically be proven to be mostly accurate, without being racist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's how you think you should treat others and how you actually treat others, regardless of their race or ethnicity, that to me determines whether or not you're racist. If you treat them any better or worse on that basis, you just might be one. And it doesn't necessarily make you an entirely bad person, but once it's been brought to your attention by reasonable and decent people, whether you decide to think and do better says a lot more about your character than ever having had some misconceptions about folks based on their heritage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think it's really important to distinguish racism, which is the ways race affects our day to day lives, from bigotry, which is a lot more open.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That was Paula's mistake. She looked into her soul and found no hatred there, and called it good. She didn't continue searching for the ways race affected her behavior.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Of course Paula Deen is racist, as am I and pretty much every adult white person."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and to think I left this site a little while ago over the buttered bread issue.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just may have to leave again. This is ridiculous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Don't go; it's a discussion, folks are being candid, and that's a good thing whether you agree or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No, wyogal! You cannot leave until you give us a full report of what kind of food you were subjected to in Iowa on your return trip home from VA.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I missed the buttered bread discussion/issue. Do you have a link to it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We are NOT going back through the "I" states! well, a little of Indiana and Illinois, but not Iowa! ha! We will head back through WVa, Kentucky, Missouri...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And no, I really don't want to link to that discussion as I don't want to be reminded how low class I am by buttering my whole slice of bread at once. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Where in Iowa were you?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I grew up there. And have lived in those two other "I states," too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Besides Chicago, none of them are culinary destination spots ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I guess I don't think it's racist to see color and differences or unfamiliarity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think racism is pernicious, often insidious, unspoken and about outcomes for those discriminated against, whether intended or just traditionally accepted as the way things are.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm definitely race conscious, and a big part of that is trying to put myself in a position to understand another perspective as I do with anyone, but I don't see that as racist, just conscious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >>>Of course Paula Deen is racist, as am I and pretty much every adult white person<<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                JonParker, please speak for yourself and not every other adult white person. So you are an admitted racist. Fine. But please do not lump the rest of us into your swamp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think that's unfair castigation. JonParker was making a nuanced argument, not casting aspersions. I've appreciated his thoughts in these discussions tremendously, though I would not have chosen to use such a hot button word to convey the mere awareness of racial differences due to the expected reflexive reactions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So you agree with him when he said specifically that pretty much every white person (including himself) is a racist?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is that your assessment of my contribution to this thread?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you. It was probably too nuanced a point for these forums. This has born out one of my main points, which is that we can't have a serious discussion about race without precisely defined terms. When the words racism and prejudice and bigotry and discrimination are all used interchangeably, it causes every discussion to deteriorate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think every person should examine their feelings about race. Again, Paula knew that she did not hate black people, but not pursuing her own attitudes further is what led to her thinking it was ok to dress black men in white tuxedos as decoration. It was an astoundingly bad idea, and the reason she didn't do it was because she was afraid people would misconstrue it. The problem was that people who objected would not be misconstruing it -- it was Paula who did not understand how despicable her actions would be; who did not understand that racism does not require prejudice or bigotry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Too nuanced"? You said you are a racist and also said pretty much every white person is a racist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That is not "too nuanced" for me, JonParker. I originally gave you the benefit of the doubt, but when you are proudly admitting you are a racist and accusing those of us that are NOT racists I will say something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Clearly, you two define the word in different ways. Jon's is very literal, yours very, VERY emotional. Neither is a way to increase understanding, just reaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It was clearly completely too nuanced for you; you utterly failed to comprehend that you and Jon define the word "racist" differently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            His definition was not based upon hatred or ugly words, yours is. His is nuanced, yours is concrete. Neither is complete nor correct, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We're supposed to strive for understanding in discussions worth having, not create side shows and distortions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Paula dearly needed to have a crash course in this before she tried an epic fail of a mea culpa tour.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's clueless to say "I don't see color" as a defense or justification. We ALL see color. We ALL see race. To say we do not implies that we don't see our differences and uniqueness AND that we don't appreciate them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To me, it's not about Paula's claim to have uttered the N word in the '80's. I wish the media would focus on the real issues here and why companies are dropping Paula like a hot potato.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: JonParker

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "I don't hate people of other races, nor do I consider them inferior. "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But that is the definition of racism - hatred of any other race other than your own and the belief that your race is superior to any other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you said everyone's a bigot, I'd have no dog in this argument.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't believe that hatred defines racism, and Paula Deen may be the ultimate embodiment of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's easy to see and jump on hatred and bigotry, much more so than institutionalized policies that have continuing disadvantages for people of color as an outcome. The latter is the real, continuing danger, ultimately.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The haters are dying out, rapidly so, research says. Good riddance. But the policies are less obvious targets.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mcf, you are right. Hatred in the most strict definition does not define racism. You could hate me for a number of reasons outside of race.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But if you walk around calling African-Americans "niggers" and treating them like shit then I think that does indeed sink to the level of hatred.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I realize you and Jon will not agree with that but most people would agree that it is wrong and hateful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't think anyone with two live brain cells could infer the characterizations you have leaped to about the other poster and I.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I hope that wasn't too nuanced for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know what you think we've each said, but you're completely off base and out of line.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                OK, I apologize for making a statement that people seem to have taken offense to. I also made my point badly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If I look at it another way, I could also say that I don't believe anyone is a racist, because I don't believe that racism is something that one "is." It's an attitude that I do believe affects everyone to a greater or lesser degree, which doesn't mean that I think everyone is a bigot or filled with hate, as I thought I had clearly pointed out. I also think racism is for the most part subconscious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I do not define racism the way LindaWhit does. The definition she gives is the one I would use for bigotry. If you look for definitions of racism, you'll see a wide variety of defintions, which goes to my larger point that it's nearly impossible to have a rational discussion of this, as you have so aptly shown. The language is so charged with emotion that meaning becomes secondary.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The definition of racism that I use has to do with a pattern of racial discrimination that pervades a society in such a way that no one escapes its effects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There are advantages conferred on me because I am both white and male in a society that treats both as the normative state. It doesn't matter that I didn't ask for them, whether or not I want them, or if I believe that this is the way things should be. It is simply what is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In any event, I'm going to back away from this now. I hope you all will put down your pitchforks long enough to at least try to understand the point I was making. And again, I apologize for offending you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Meanwhile her book is #1 on Amazon and hasn't been released yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. She's hired a "crisis manager!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Judy Smith who helped rehab the reputations of Michael Vick and Kobe Bryant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Pow-La also lost her Novo Nordisc deal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. An interesting interview with Paula's ex-husband. Guess anyone somehow related to Paula is open game right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I know nothing about their divorce or current relationships, but clearly, he is defending Paula.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. At this point, we think this thread has reached the point of no return on hounds calling each other racists, so we're going to lock this.