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Whole Foods (probably) coming to Montreal!

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Glaff May 22, 2013 02:55 PM

http://argent.canoe.ca/vos-finances/c...

  1. f
    Fintastic May 22, 2013 03:50 PM

    Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but I'm going to keep holding my breath for Trader Joe's. The WF CEO seems to be a pretty despicable gentleman. I won't support his business.

    1 Reply
    1. re: Fintastic
      william_howard_taft May 23, 2013 04:57 PM

      I agree completely. Trader Joe's blows Whole Foods out of the water. I used to live in a neighbourhood with both in the States. Their prices are better, their products are great, and they're apolitical, unlike the Ayn Rand fetishist running Whole Foods. Trader Joe's is admittedly weak on produce, but there are so many great produce markets in Montreal, that wouldn't be an issue for me.

    2. delys77 May 22, 2013 03:56 PM

      I work right next to a Whole Foods market in West Vancouver, and while I was excited when it opened I find it only good for the occasional trip for specialty items since the vast majority of their products are not priced very competitively (even for conventional non organics).

      I too await the arrival of Trader Joe's in Canada. To my mind it is a much more balanced market, both in terms of offerings and pricing.

      3 Replies
      1. re: delys77
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        lagatta May 22, 2013 04:16 PM

        Trader's corresponds much more to our market. Lots of food-curious people, far fewer who can spend Whole Paycheque prices, and those people have options here.

        Unfortunately no prospect of decent cheap wines here!

        1. re: lagatta
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          williej May 22, 2013 04:40 PM

          I would prefer to shop locally and not give my money to a fancy US company. There are enough US chains here thank you.

          1. re: lagatta
            Peaches to Poutine May 23, 2013 05:44 AM

            Ah, TJ's. How I miss you.

            Right before I moved up here, my husband wrote TJ's, asking them if they were going to open any stores in Canada, especially Quebec.

            I believe you could term the reply as "polite but barely restraining their laughter of disbelief."

            Oh well. There are stores in Nashua, Portsmouth, and Portland, but I am hoping one opens up in Burlington sometime soon. It makes sense after all.

            As for Whole Paycheck, I like them fine. I like them even more when they carry hard-to-find vegan products that I cannot find for love or money in this province; of course, these days, I just pop down into Newport's Natural Foods to look for that stuff (still not the same variety, though).

        2. w
          wattacetti May 22, 2013 04:56 PM

          I've had to subsist on the offerings of Whole Foods over the course of several business trips in the past due to per diems making restaurant dining "challenging". I don't think I need to see them again, though I did like this particular hickory chicken wing they did sell.

          A T&T in Montreal however, would be something.

          8 Replies
          1. re: wattacetti
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            lagatta May 22, 2013 05:47 PM

            Agreed. About the only chain I crave in Mtl is the Canadian Asian (mostly Chinese) chain T&T. The closest one is in Ottawa. Whole Foods doesn't interest me at all. Traders would be somewhat interesting, though I'd be the proverbial bottom-feeder there.

            1. re: lagatta
              cherylmtl May 22, 2013 08:16 PM

              T&T were supposed to expand here - then they were purchased by Loblaw's, and that fell through. No idea if they plan on expanding here now, but it would be nice...

              The closest Trader Joe's is in now in Albany, just over 3 hours from Montreal, which isn't a bad drive...

            2. re: wattacetti
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              Shattered Jun 28, 2013 09:11 AM

              We've got an S & G. How is T & T a step up?

              1. re: Shattered
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                lagatta Jun 28, 2013 09:40 AM

                I don't know what S&G is. T&T is the big Asian chain linked to Loblaws.

                Now that there is another Marché Hawaï location in Mtl, that means another competitor for that market.

                1. re: lagatta
                  s
                  Shattered Jun 28, 2013 10:01 AM

                  S & G is the supermarket in the basement of the Swatow building in Chinatown.

                  1. re: Shattered
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                    chilipepper Jun 28, 2013 04:32 PM

                    I think it's D&G.

                    1. re: chilipepper
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                      Shattered Jun 28, 2013 04:41 PM

                      Whoops, it's G & D. I got the S from the name of the building...?
                      http://www.swatowgroup.com/fr/etages-...

                2. re: Shattered
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                  wattacetti Jun 28, 2013 02:02 PM

                  T&T by default of its house brands and its original ownership group has more products from Taiwan. Not having to purchase ingredients originating from the mainland is a big plus for me.

                  S&G was only okay for me the times I've gone though they did have Apple Sidra.

              2. o
                OliverB May 22, 2013 06:25 PM

                I live approx. 5 blocks away from a Trader Joe's and 3 blocks from a Whole Foods (along with several ethnic markets, asian groceries, etc) - there's no comparison between the quality and selection of products at Whole Foods. The prices are steeper but there's fresher produce, more unique items, excellent prepared foods. I hardly ever shop at Trader Joe's because frankly, their products are not that great. It would be a huge addition to the city (and a great blow to the IGA/Metro chains!) if it were to open up in Montreal. I hope it happens!

                15 Replies
                1. re: OliverB
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                  williej May 22, 2013 07:15 PM

                  \We have great fresh produce at our markets. We need to keep supporting unique local businesses, not chains.

                  1. re: williej
                    o
                    OliverB May 22, 2013 09:45 PM

                    There are not many one-stop fresh local markets in Montreal to begin with, and it stands to reason that they are seasonal and much produce is not available year-round. The big two (JTM and AM) have pretty high mark-ups at the stalls and are not necessarily the most convenient for a lot of people. The only other current options are the big grocery chains like IGA and Metro, which I'd like to see bite the dust for good, in favor of more sustainable and ethical chains like Whole Foods, who support local, eco-friendly and organic farms and suppliers and stock higher quality food items. I'm not saying they're a needed replacement to the local markets, which I still prefer to shop at. I'd rather see them as a replacement to the current grocery chains, which should be snuffed out of the province altogether!

                    1. re: OliverB
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                      Miaow323 May 22, 2013 10:07 PM

                      There are many words we can use to describe Whole Foods, but "ethical" should not be one of them (look the CEO of WF up if interested). I am US born and bred and have been to many a Whole Foods as well as Trader Joe's and can honestly say that the overwhelming majority of people I know prefer it to Whole Foods. WF is a place, just like Lululemon for yoga, to be "seen" so you can be considered "health conscious" and hip and where people can say "look, I have extra money to burn" (or die trying lol). Most of their products can be found elsewhere for MUCH, much cheaper, so I see no reason to give them my business. My family lives in Fairfield County, one of the richest counties in the US (I say this since you seem to give money a lot of value in all your posts) and all the Trader Joe's are constantly packed (not so for WF).

                      You know why? Because they DO have good produce, a large variety of unique items-many of them imported from France (a lot of their desserts), Germany, etc, products that are consistently ranked "the best" by various reports (such as their home brand turkey bacon and brownie mix), they do not have any single-ingredient products (such as veggies) from China due to safety concerns, all their home brand eggs are cage-free and their home brand foods also contain NO GMOs. All this for great prices!

                      Did you know that Whole Foods sells GMO tainted food? Doesn't that concern you if your main worry is about quality? Not to mention that Trader Joe's is consistently ranked in the top 25 and top 50 places to work due to something that is rarely offered in the US-a living wage. In fact, cashiers in our area were getting starting salaries of $13-$14/hour (a rarity). And if you are a manager, you take home 100K (vs 55-60K for WF). Yep, TJ checks pretty much all the boxes for me.

                      1. re: Miaow323
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                        OliverB May 23, 2013 10:32 AM

                        That's really interesting and informative as I wasn't aware of all of that and I do appreciate your perspective however that really isn't true of the TJ's near my apartment on California and Pine. Their selection is pretty poor compared to the Whole Foods located just blocks away, who has a better butcher, fish market, etc. I used to do all of my shopping at Bi-Rite, which was exorbitantly more expensive, but so blatantly superior in all respects. I shouldn't speak for the Whole Foods brand in general, but I genuinely appreciate the one near my apartment and enjoy shopping there. I'll still visit the markets in Chinatown from time to time, but for one-stop shopping, my local WF is great. That said, I think any Whole Foods is exponentially better to the commerical IGA/Metro chains in the pockets of the big corporate trademarked brands.

                        1. re: OliverB
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                          catroast May 23, 2013 10:35 AM

                          why would we want a trader joe's if they wouldn't be allowed to sell dollar wine.

                          1. re: catroast
                            Peaches to Poutine May 23, 2013 10:54 AM

                            Man, not even Two-Buck Chuck is two bucks anymore. It's more like Three-Dollars-and-Some-Change Chuck these days.

                            That said, I do delight in the esoteric selection of their wines and beers. Their house brands tend to be drinkable plonk--nothing I'd serve at a dinner party, but completely acceptable for a girls' night in or an intimate gathering with friends--and the non-house are always interesting.

                            Oh, and that wasabi trail mix. Man, I smuggled four bags of that stuff back in my luggage a few weeks ago.

                            1. re: Peaches to Poutine
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                              catroast May 23, 2013 11:12 AM

                              $3 is still good, unfortunately they'd have to purchase the blended crap from the quebec cartel.

                          2. re: OliverB
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                            williej May 23, 2013 03:03 PM

                            Whole Foods will only go to places where big box stores will go. So it will require going a distance. There aren't going to be any neighbourhood Whole Foods while there are neighbourhood Canadian owned chains. I would much prefer Canadian owned chains in my neighbourhood that I can walk or bike to to an American chain that is out in the burbs that will be a long bus or car ride.

                            1. re: williej
                              Peaches to Poutine May 23, 2013 04:34 PM

                              Maybe in Canada, but in my hometown of Atlanta, Whole Foods opened up on Ponce--a thickly populated grab bag of an avenue--and about a block up was a Kroger's, which are as ubiquitous as, say, a Provigo or IGA. So at least where I'm from, that doesn't hold true. A Whole Foods will open up wherever there's a large enough space for them to. (But you are right that they are usually linked to other chain stores.)

                              1. re: Peaches to Poutine
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                                williej May 23, 2013 04:47 PM

                                Thanks. I just prefer Montreal to be attractive for its eclectic range of small stores...bakeries, patisseries, fruit and vegie shops, butchers etc. I really don't like the supermarket chains, but we definitely don;'t need another chain with a pseudo-market atmosphere here that closes down the small eclectic grocery stores.

                                If we wanted Montreal to be like San Francisco we would live in San Francisco (reminds me of a N. American tourist in Paris who wanted to go to MacDonalds for a meal; now why would you go to Paris if that is where you want to eat?).

                                1. re: williej
                                  Peaches to Poutine May 23, 2013 04:56 PM

                                  While this is wildly dependent on where they open up should they choose to open a store here--WF is very anti-union so that may just kill the possibility before it starts--I honestly believe that small stores will be in no danger of closing down. Loyal clientele is its own rewards sometimes, and food market icons like Atwater/Jean-Talon will remain because that is more in the spirit of Montreal and what visitors like to see as well.

                                  Again, this would really depend on where they would open. I can't think of any large areas on the Island offhand that would lend themselves to the space a WF wants/needs.

                        2. re: OliverB
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                          lagatta May 23, 2013 02:06 AM

                          Mark-ups or not, I usually find vegetables cheaper at JTM than at chain supermarkets. Where they can be cheaper is independent greengrocers, and independent or small-chain "ethnic" places, including PA and (sometimes) Adonis. PA does much better than Adonis about promoting local produce.

                          1. re: OliverB
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                            catroast May 23, 2013 05:23 AM

                            produce at JTM is much less expensive than at the grocery store.

                            the produce at PA is usually pretty bad.

                            1. re: catroast
                              Chocolatesa May 23, 2013 07:20 AM

                              In my experience at the PA on Fort, I've always found the quality of the produce very good! The only things I buy at the Provigo around the corner are bacon, cheese and club soda, everything else I buy at PA. Personally I love the place, they have good specials compared to Provigo and I find the quality of the fresh meats good overall too :)

                              1. re: catroast
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                                Maximilien May 23, 2013 11:25 AM

                                PA (parc) have good/great vegetables and fruits in winter time; the rest of the year, not so much.

                        3. c
                          chilipepper May 22, 2013 06:45 PM

                          Is there any space at Dix/30?
                          Near Carrefour Laval?
                          I can't think of any space on the island ...old Blue Bonnets?

                          21 Replies
                          1. re: chilipepper
                            SnackHappy May 22, 2013 07:33 PM

                            Dix30 already has Avril, Adonis and specialty shops. I wonder how Whole Foods would fit in there. It seems that in a city with not that many organic or upscale supermarkets Whole Foods would be a hard sell. The only real advantage I can see coming from Whole Foods is that it's one-stop shopping. That would appeal to people in affluent suburbs where their type of offer might be lacking. I don't think they would do so great in central neighbourhoods except perhaps right downtown.

                            1. re: chilipepper
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                              wattacetti May 22, 2013 07:55 PM

                              You'd have to take a look at the demographic that might shop at Whole Foods.

                              Might work in Laval as there are plenty of strip mall areas along the 13 and 15 which could support a new building. The Lavalois are climbing upscale (or trying).

                              Not sure about Dix30 because I can't see the immediate Brossard population as a client base in addition to all the points SnackHappy has already brought up. St-Lambert maybe but it could wind up being a drive as outside of Dix30, we're talking what, the developments along Taschereau?

                              On island, West Island/Fairview is the only possibility in terms of size and potential client base though there are a lot of families that do the bulk/frozen thing at Loblaw and Wal-Mart from what I remember. Blue Bonnets is in an area which doesn't hold a Whole Foods demographic. No space in Westmount (can't see Peter Trent allowing a rezoning), Outremont or TMR, Montreal West is too isolated traffic-wise. Can't see it going east.

                              1. re: wattacetti
                                SnackHappy May 22, 2013 08:04 PM

                                If Williams-Sonoma can make a go of it in Laval, it would certainly bode well for Whole Foods. They pretty much have the same demographic.

                                1. re: SnackHappy
                                  SourberryLily May 27, 2013 09:33 AM

                                  They can make a go, but i doubt they will be very profitable.

                                  I see very few curious people browsing that shop considering the foot traffic, but very little actually buying. Way too expensive.

                                  1. re: SourberryLily
                                    Peaches to Poutine May 27, 2013 12:54 PM

                                    I know, right? I love going into a Williams-Sonoma, but I rarely leave with anything. Much too pricey.

                                2. re: wattacetti
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                                  lagatta May 23, 2013 02:11 AM

                                  The Blue Bonnets development will be a whole new neighbourhood, so all of this remains to be seen.

                                  1. re: lagatta
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                                    wattacetti May 23, 2013 07:01 AM

                                    Yes, I understand it's supposed to be along the lines of Bois-Franc in St-Laurent. However, the competition plans for 20K people in the development, which wouldn't be enough to sustain a WF even if they assumed every single one purchased at WF exclusively (which they won't). The encircling donut is the wrong demographic.

                                    1. re: wattacetti
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                                      catroast May 23, 2013 07:10 AM

                                      i'm pretty certain that the decarie walmart is not exclusively supported by residents on mountainsights

                                      hampstead, csl, tmr, vsl - all a skip away.

                                      1. re: catroast
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                                        JerkPork May 23, 2013 07:31 AM

                                        Anyone know what's being built next to the WalMart on Decarie?

                                        There is no sign stating what it will be, the structure is way too big for a restaurant so I'm thinking a supermarket. With all those new condos up along Jean Talon/Decarie that are definitely needs a grocery store. Might this be the Whole Foods?

                                        I'm open to Whole Foods if they can diversify the availability of non Cargill/XL meats. We are still limited in this city when it comes to access to properly raised Quebec/Ontario meats.

                                        1. re: JerkPork
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                                          catroast May 23, 2013 07:41 AM

                                          i seem to recall reading that they were expanding the decarie walmart. i'm not so sure now since they are building a freestanding structure.

                                          i doubt that walmart would permit a competing grocery store to build in its parking lot.

                                          1. re: JerkPork
                                            cherylmtl May 23, 2013 09:21 AM

                                            We aren't limited at all for access to properly raised Quebec meats, if you shop at the markets, but are if you stick to grocery stores.

                                            1. re: cherylmtl
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                                              JerkPork May 23, 2013 09:48 AM

                                              I do shop at the appropriate places and avoid supermarket meat, i.e St Vincent, Porc Meilleur, farmer's markets, etc..

                                              But that's my point, we can only really go to these places and it's not always convenient. If I want St Canut pork I have to reserve it in advance at Latina, Berkshire Pork is almost non existent. Marche Tau, Rachelle Bery are close to doing it right but they don't have in house butchers and their supply is inconsistent.

                                          2. re: catroast
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                                            lagatta May 23, 2013 07:53 AM

                                            Actually, I'm sure that the residents of the more affluent nearby neighbourhoods also shop at the Walmart. And VSL has quite a choice of "ethnic" groceries.

                                      2. re: wattacetti
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                                        sir_jiffy May 27, 2013 08:14 AM

                                        What about the spot on the northen side of the Metropolitaine, west of Ste-Croix and just east of the Decarie Circle?

                                        Near TMR, quick access to the highways to serve NDG, West Island and even Laval.

                                        1. re: sir_jiffy
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                                          williej May 27, 2013 01:34 PM

                                          You couldn't pay me to go for groceries by driving the Met or Decarie from NDG. Even if I loved WF.

                                          1. re: sir_jiffy
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                                            wattacetti May 27, 2013 01:40 PM

                                            That's a SmartCentres development and I'm not sure if WF would be that good an anchor tenant given the lack of pretty much everything else and the proximity of Loblaws on Dion.

                                            Near TMR yes, but highway access with the way the interchange is being reconfigured is going to be torturous.

                                            1. re: wattacetti
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                                              sir_jiffy May 28, 2013 10:54 AM

                                              Isn't SmartCentres the real estate arm of Walmart, so another Walmart to be built there? Seems close to the one on Decarie.

                                              1. re: sir_jiffy
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                                                wattacetti May 28, 2013 12:01 PM

                                                AFAIK, SmartCentres is a property developer that makes really ugly malls similar to what's found in US suburbia; Wal-Mart just happens to be one of their location tenants.

                                        2. re: chilipepper
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                                          Arktik May 29, 2013 07:24 AM

                                          Maybe someplace in Griffintown? lots of people (yuppie-hipsters) moving in with not that many grocery stores unless you drive west to Atwater or north-west to PA/Mourelatos/ Adonis

                                          1. re: Arktik
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                                            williej May 29, 2013 04:53 PM

                                            You forgot the Metro at Montagne andNotre Dame.

                                            1. re: williej
                                              l
                                              lagatta Jun 2, 2013 06:39 PM

                                              Yes, I happened on that by chance, meeting a client in a condo there. Do remember that a lot of hipster-yuppies don't want to drive...

                                        3. b
                                          Bodhidude Dec 2, 2013 08:06 AM

                                          Great location for Whole Foods: Near Angrinon green line Metro and beautiful hugh park that is the best kept non secret. The whole neighbourhood near this area is sprouting with expensive condos, they just set up "Target"...the Loblaws there has a very good organic section and it is always busy...let's not forget it is very close to the new super hospital. You are in Montreal accessible by metro with plenty of parking spaces....drive around the corner of Newman and Trinitaires and see for yourself. Looking forward to seeing Whole Foods in Montreal.

                                          2 Replies
                                          1. re: Bodhidude
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                                            lagatta Dec 2, 2013 08:35 AM

                                            Is this worth the long trip from my area (Jean-Talon, intersection orange and blue lines)? I've certainly gone there to the park (an Argentine association used to do huge "asados" there, haven't seen those in a few years), but it is a LOT of stations. I know they are considered expensive, but there might be somethings worth picking up, unavailable elsewhere in Mtl.

                                            I don't drive, but STM does...

                                            1. re: Bodhidude
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                                              Gregoso Dec 2, 2013 09:18 AM

                                              I am confused - is this a suggestion or actual news?

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