HOME > Chowhound > Not About Food >
What's your latest food project? Share your adventure
TELL US

Cute Speak?

Candy Apr 8, 2013 12:16 PM

I am currently testing recipes for a forth coming book. Last night I was making a dish and photographing as I went along to send feedback to the author. In one sentence she said to "deploy" to the table.

When I sent my feedback to her suggesting "deploy" was not a good verb to use and suggested serve immediately or at once. She replied that it was what is now being used.

I'd like to know where all of this "cute speak" is coming from. In many ways the users sound illiterate. Take bone for instance, we use boning knives to bone meat. In cute speak it is now debone. Even spell check does not like debone. Are we next going to defeather birds instead of pluck? I know there are other constructs making it into food speak, but deploy to the table?!?

  1. Upload a photo (10 MB limit)
Delete
  1. coll Apr 8, 2013 12:19 PM

    The English language is evolving so quickly I can hardly keep up. I know what you mean.

    35 Replies
    1. re: coll
      w
      WNYamateur Apr 9, 2013 06:12 AM

      Doesn't "evolving" imply positive change?

      Just heard over the cube wall: "What do we need to do to progress this forward?"

      A verb is born.

      This has become so pervasive that we now call it "verbing".

      1. re: WNYamateur
        i
        INDIANRIVERFL Apr 9, 2013 08:31 AM

        Philology is a wonderful thing. If you use the term positive as to a smarter, more complex organism than you should rethink your general idea about evolution. To keep this food related, the tapeworm is a highly evolved organism, but the term positive may be disagreed with.

        1. re: WNYamateur
          greygarious Apr 9, 2013 11:36 AM

          To progress forward is redundant - I'd veto that one. I'm still smarting over "offload", but language is not static. Unfortunately, in this era, neither are spelling, grammar, enunciation, or punctuation.

          1. re: greygarious
            MGZ Apr 9, 2013 11:41 AM

            "[L]anguage is not static."

            And, never has been, almost by definition.

            "Unfortunately, in this era, neither are spelling, grammar, enunciation, or punctuation."

            Actually, that long predates this era. Moreover, as I have espoused before, we are only a couple years way from simply using recorded voices to post on sites like these. MP3s are way easier than havin' folks type. Then, we'd actually hear everyone's voice, inflection, ad all.

            1. re: MGZ
              linguafood Apr 9, 2013 02:47 PM

              That would be awesome in so many ways.

              1. re: MGZ
                m
                mugen Apr 10, 2013 01:12 AM

                Prescription of language is a hard thing to propound: it necessarily has to be prescription of the language at some point in time, which arbitrarily concedes all of the development of the language prior to that point and refuses all development after it; where the more recent of the changes prior to the arbitrary point represent permissible departures from earlier rules, though departures from earlier rules are abhorred after the arbitrary point.

                Even 'Proper', 'Oxford' or 'Queen's' English is still a horrible (for the poor student) confusion of Germanic, Norman and Norse languages; no doubt many of the words and much of the grammar in proper modern English were considered radical or vulgar when they emerged.

                That said, I can't help feeling that the language has not advanced much since standardisation began, in two respects that would be fundamental if I were trying to design a language: its regularity and its capacity to express and communicate complex information. Much of the development seems to be not structural development of the language, but merely new nouns/verbs to describe new things/concepts (nonce words); or simply irregularities (for novelty or from ignorance) that don't actually improve the precision or communicative power of the language.

                It would be interesting to study the rate of change in the language, as used for serious, expressive writing; against the rate of change in it, as used in colloquy. My hunch is that the language has been relatively stagnant since standardisation at the high end, while speech has progressed a great deal, but as a kind of transient noise that doesn't really measurably increase the power of the language - full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing, so to speak.

                tl;dr ignorant, speculative ramblings.

              2. re: greygarious
                r
                ricepad Apr 9, 2013 11:47 AM

                "[L]anguage is not static...."

                Depends on the language. English is very fluid. French, on the other hand, is not.

                1. re: ricepad
                  MGZ Apr 9, 2013 11:53 AM

                  What are you basing that comment on? All languages evolve (or die, like Latin, and become other languages). Words are commonly being added in French, just like English. See, e.g. http://irishherault.wordpress.com/201...

                  1. re: MGZ
                    r
                    ricepad Apr 9, 2013 12:03 PM

                    Only that L'Académie française tends to be pretty conservative in their approach to the evolution of French.

                    1. re: ricepad
                      MGZ Apr 9, 2013 12:08 PM

                      Academic presciptivism does not change the way real people communicate with one another, or the fact that new words are necessary to communicate new ideas, new things, or new actions. The L'Academie had no words for "nuclear bomb" in 1900, did they?

                      1. re: ricepad
                        sunshine842 Apr 9, 2013 01:38 PM

                        L'Académie does continue to be pretty conservative.

                        French folks dans le rue, however, don't give a rat's ass what L'Académie says or does, and uses the language that serves their needs at the time.

                        Le week-end, anyone? How about getting a makeover and calling it a "relooking"? The whole kerfuffle about not using the word email, and that we should call it couriel (from "courier electronique")? Nah -- you m'envoyez un email. (you send me an email) or even just a mail.

                  2. re: greygarious
                    s
                    sr44 Apr 9, 2013 12:57 PM

                    I expect "progress forward" will become "progress forward ahead" in the blink of an eye.

                    1. re: sr44
                      g
                      gourmanda Apr 9, 2013 02:07 PM

                      but can you reach out, be client-centric and implement best practices while you progress forward ahead?

                      1. re: gourmanda
                        meatn3 Apr 9, 2013 02:15 PM

                        A mouthful of multitasking!

                        1. re: meatn3
                          s
                          sr44 Apr 9, 2013 02:23 PM

                          Many things.

                          1. re: meatn3
                            hotoynoodle Apr 10, 2013 06:28 AM

                            you need to incent your solution champions!

                            1. re: hotoynoodle
                              s
                              sr44 Apr 10, 2013 12:43 PM

                              Isn't it incentivize?

                          2. re: gourmanda
                            sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 12:28 AM

                            Yeahhhhhh, there's that.

                            We actually did play lingo bingo during one particularly offensive staff meeting. We were shocked at how fast someone one.

                            I'm usually the one who will eventually just ask the person to please tell me what the hell he/she intended to say in 10 words or less.

                            Or the classic "That sounded like English, but I have absolutely no idea what you just said. Could you translate that into words people actually use, please?"

                            1. re: sunshine842
                              Candy Apr 10, 2013 11:14 AM

                              10 words or fewer

                            2. re: gourmanda
                              missmasala Apr 10, 2013 08:16 PM

                              "implement best practices" is one of my particular favorites. True business-speak.

                              1. re: missmasala
                                g
                                GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 08:22 PM

                                "best practices" is a useful term which is well understood by those who use it. If the man-on-the-street doesn't understand it, it doesn't matter.

                                1. re: GH1618
                                  Kris in Beijing Apr 10, 2013 08:32 PM

                                  I'm not sure how it's different from "use the good vanilla."

                                  1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                    g
                                    GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 08:35 PM

                                    "Use the good vanilla" is specific. A cook applying best (culinary) practices would be using the best ingredients everywhere.

                                    1. re: GH1618
                                      Candy Apr 11, 2013 08:23 AM

                                      And there are some pretty bad vanillas on the market, especially imitation vanilla. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to use it.

                                      1. re: Candy
                                        coll Apr 11, 2013 08:27 AM

                                        Actually, pastry chefs I have worked with claim that imitation vanilla has a stronger flavor than regular, and prefer it. They haven't convinced me yet, but interesting to note.

                                      2. re: GH1618
                                        j
                                        Jenny Ondioline Apr 13, 2013 06:47 AM

                                        Well, they would be using the best ingredients *for that particular application*, which is an important distinction. You don't use the 80-year-old balsamic for the dressing.

                                    2. re: GH1618
                                      mbfant Apr 11, 2013 04:21 AM

                                      >>"best practices" is a useful term which is well understood by those who use it. If the man-on-the-street doesn't understand it, it doesn't matter.<<

                                      Very true about "best practices" and even "implement." For my sins, I edit and translate a lot of engineering stuff, much of it directed to Brussels, and I've long since resigned myself to that language because it certainly does have a point in its context. The trouble begins when it spills over into what should be pure civilian sermo quotidianus. Sometimes I catch myself sounding like an engineer in my own writing (or, worse, an Italian engineer), which is very disturbing.

                                      1. re: mbfant
                                        l
                                        lagatta Apr 11, 2013 05:35 AM

                                        Just so you don't insist on being adressed as "Ingegnere" mbfant...

                                        Implement (verb) is a very useful term in its proper context.

                                      2. re: GH1618
                                        g
                                        gourmanda Apr 11, 2013 06:36 AM

                                        Gh--

                                        This woman-on-the-street fully understands the meaning of "best practices". That is not to say that someone who uses that phrase on a daily basis does not sound like a pretentious a**hole.

                                        1. re: gourmanda
                                          g
                                          GH1618 Apr 11, 2013 09:27 AM

                                          I agree that jargon should be used in its proper place. Whether it is used on a daily basis is another matter. To put it in the context of food, consider a restaurant inspector for the health department. He or she will want to know, every working day, whether kitchens are employing "best practices" to ensure food delivered to customers is safe. There is nothing pretentious about this.

                                  2. re: sr44
                                    s
                                    sandylc Apr 10, 2013 11:19 AM

                                    And preventive became preventative and then prevententative.

                                    1. re: sandylc
                                      globocity Apr 11, 2013 03:14 AM

                                      "Conversate" makes my brain hurt.

                                  3. re: greygarious
                                    DuffyH Apr 13, 2013 06:56 AM

                                    Offload is a commonly used term in the military, or was when I was in the US Navy in the early 70's. I just checked Random House and they date it to the 1840's. It does sound like a modern cute speak term, though.

                                    1. re: DuffyH
                                      coll Apr 13, 2013 10:17 AM

                                      They use it in the trucking industry, when the truck's contents have to be transferred to another truck for some reason, for example if it breaks down. I bet it's a nautical term originally thought.

                                      1. re: DuffyH
                                        l
                                        lagatta Apr 13, 2013 10:17 AM

                                        It means unloading goods (or matériel) from a ship or truck. Once again, such terms of military or mercantile origin could make sense in terms of the complex and precise operations of a large professional kitchen, with a "brigade" that copies a military model. I googled "offload military" and found lots of examples of how offload is used as a military logistics term.

                                        Escoffier, who developed the kitchen brigade system, was indeed a former army chef.

                                        Really silly in a home, a little café etc.

                                2. pamf Apr 8, 2013 12:31 PM

                                  Deploy seemed to go from usage in the military, to the tech world, and now I guess the professional kitchen. If the cookbook is written for the home cook, then it would be a poor, potentially confusing, choice of wording.

                                  If serving immediately is important for the quality of the dish, then just using the verb deploy doesn't convey that at all.

                                  Can you make a note for the editor?

                                  1. j
                                    James Cristinian Apr 8, 2013 12:32 PM

                                    Sounds like the corporate speak I hear at work. I'm going to partner with and cascade the information going forward, etc, etc. Let's partner and or deploy, cascade some lunch into our gullets.

                                    9 Replies
                                    1. re: James Cristinian
                                      gaffk Apr 8, 2013 06:03 PM

                                      The synergy of those terms puts you ahead of demand. It's a win-win.

                                      1. re: gaffk
                                        John E. Apr 8, 2013 07:43 PM

                                        At the end of the day, the writers of the new cookbook must utilize a paradigm shift to attain the proper synergy for the cookbook to be a success.

                                        1. re: John E.
                                          c
                                          charmedgirl Apr 8, 2013 08:28 PM

                                          http://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator....

                                          1. re: charmedgirl
                                            John E. Apr 8, 2013 09:13 PM

                                            That's almost as much fun as this site:

                                            http://www.myrapname.com/

                                      2. re: James Cristinian
                                        kattyeyes Apr 8, 2013 06:27 PM

                                        That's why plain language always wins...and jargon is a huge LOSER! :)

                                        1. re: kattyeyes
                                          gaffk Apr 8, 2013 06:42 PM

                                          Nope, corporate speak always wins.

                                          1. re: gaffk
                                            kattyeyes Apr 8, 2013 07:33 PM

                                            Not in my workplace--and not on my watch!

                                            1. re: gaffk
                                              Lillipop Apr 8, 2013 11:47 PM

                                              Sorry no...medical speak will always resonate with a larger population.

                                              1. re: gaffk
                                                jmcarthur8 Apr 10, 2013 04:00 AM

                                                I worked at my kid's elementary school for a few years, and was on a panel to rewrite the mission statement and various goals for new accreditation. Oh, my lord, the teacherspeak was dizzying! Facilitating, models, heterogeneous.....every sentence in the document was indecipherable, and we worked very hard to make it that way so it sounded teacher like and important.

                                                I had to ask what the hell 'modeling' was. Then had to wonder why they didn't simply say 'example'.

                                          2. Paprikaboy Apr 8, 2013 12:48 PM

                                            It may be technically correct, grammatically but it's not exactly elegant.

                                            Reminds me of the Harrison Ford quote about the Star Wars script.

                                            "George, you can type this s**t, but you sure as hell can't say it."

                                            1. LindaWhit Apr 8, 2013 12:51 PM

                                              Sounds more military than for in-home cooking. Poor use of the word - no matter if it is now being used. K.I.S.S., at least in this case.

                                              1. Candy Apr 8, 2013 03:23 PM

                                                Thanks for the answers. I forwarded some of them to her. She responded that a number of chefs/writers are now using the term.

                                                I did add that I'll drop the subject, it is her book, but Deploy is a military term that means to place people or equipment to strategic locations. It has nothing to do with speed. So yeah, you could deploy sandwich fillings to bread, but you don't need to be in a hurry.

                                                6 Replies
                                                1. re: Candy
                                                  iluvcookies Apr 8, 2013 06:10 PM

                                                  If I saw "deploy" used in a recipe, I would assume that the writer had no idea of what he or she was doing.
                                                  Words have meaning, and a good writer knows that.

                                                  1. re: iluvcookies
                                                    LindaWhit Apr 8, 2013 07:46 PM

                                                    " If I saw "deploy" used in a recipe, I would assume that the writer had no idea of what he or she was doing."

                                                    ^^^ THIS. ^^^

                                                    1. re: LindaWhit
                                                      sunshine842 Apr 8, 2013 10:40 PM

                                                      Me, too.

                                                      To quote my mother, if everyone were jumping off of a bridge, that doesn't make it a good idea.

                                                  2. re: Candy
                                                    q
                                                    Querencia Apr 8, 2013 06:43 PM

                                                    You know what, Candy, when she "responded that a number of chefs/writers are now using that term", I wonder if maybe just a few are that she admires and wants to copy? Because just now I googled "deploy food" and got zip except for an article about agrobusiness and industrial food deployment. The reason we use jargon is to let people we admire know that we qualify as members of their gang.

                                                    1. re: Candy
                                                      rainsux Apr 9, 2013 06:40 PM

                                                      > a number of chefs are now using the term ...

                                                      Really? Have her name three. If names do not immediately deploy from her larynx, she is lying.

                                                      If she can name-three, I'd be inclined to deploy email to them.

                                                      1. re: rainsux
                                                        sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 12:27 AM

                                                        but only if, buried in incomprehensible corporate jargon, was the message that you are a complete dbag for using this word in this context.

                                                    2. gaffk Apr 8, 2013 06:04 PM

                                                      As a home cook, "deploy" would confuse me. As a member of corporate America, I would understand "deploy," but be disgusted.

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: gaffk
                                                        Jimonthebeach Apr 8, 2013 07:21 PM

                                                        deplore?

                                                      2. h
                                                        Hobbert Apr 8, 2013 06:16 PM

                                                        I'd be able to figure it out, but it would be obnoxious. And forget about non-native English speakers.

                                                        1. s
                                                          SimonSaysWoof Apr 8, 2013 07:15 PM

                                                          Does the author want this book to be a quality cookbook that still is in print and being purchased 5 years from now, or is this just a trendy book? I hope if someone is going through the trouble of writing it, they would want it to have some staying power. To me the use of "deploy" sounds ridiculous now, imagine how it will sound in 5 years. I think common English, not trendy English is a much more sensible route to take.

                                                          1 Reply
                                                          1. re: SimonSaysWoof
                                                            MGZ Apr 9, 2013 06:22 AM

                                                            Common English is, and always has been, borne of trendy English.

                                                          2. g
                                                            GH1618 Apr 8, 2013 07:19 PM

                                                            I don't think "debone" is "cute-speak." It's just an error.

                                                            9 Replies
                                                            1. re: GH1618
                                                              Tripeler Apr 8, 2013 07:26 PM

                                                              Yeah, it is obvious that someone is a "debone-head"

                                                              1. re: GH1618
                                                                MGZ Apr 9, 2013 06:25 AM

                                                                'I don't think "debone" is "cute-speak." It's just an error.'

                                                                I agree, though I have my doubts that it will still be considered so in twenty years.

                                                                1. re: GH1618
                                                                  mbfant Apr 9, 2013 09:45 AM

                                                                  I think "debone" is along the lines of "flammable," now favored instead of "inflammable," replaced some decades ago on warning labels on grounds of ambiguity. Granted, fire warnings have an urgency recipes lack, and the ambiguity, if any, of "bone" (or, God forbid, double entendre?) should not be a problem, but I'll bet it's the same sort of construction.

                                                                  1. re: mbfant
                                                                    greygarious Apr 9, 2013 11:45 AM

                                                                    Another food-related confusion is "seed" as a verb. When you seed a tomato, you are removing the seeds and snot (not that you could add either). But when you want caraway, you buy seeded rye. If you don't want it, you buy seedless. I would not criticize anyone who used "de-seed" or "unseed" to clarify what is meant.

                                                                    1. re: greygarious
                                                                      mbfant Apr 9, 2013 12:14 PM

                                                                      Good example. There are actually many words that mean something and its opposite. The category probably has a name.

                                                                      Still, I would just say "remove the seeds."

                                                                      1. re: mbfant
                                                                        Kris in Beijing Apr 9, 2013 01:17 PM

                                                                        In English Lit, there isn't yet a single dominant term in use, but the two I frequent are
                                                                        contronym and
                                                                        "Janus words,"
                                                                        after the Roman god with 2 faces looking in opposite directions.

                                                                        1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                                          mbfant Apr 10, 2013 04:55 AM

                                                                          Love both. Thanks.

                                                                          1. re: mbfant
                                                                            grayelf Apr 11, 2013 02:15 PM

                                                                            Ditto. And my favourite contronym is sorta relevant to cooking: cleave means to hew to someone (particularly a spouse) but also to rend in twain, usually by cutting.

                                                                            1. re: grayelf
                                                                              paulj Apr 11, 2013 03:48 PM

                                                                              'Cleave' in the 'hew' sense has fallen out of common use. For example Bible translates new than the RSV don't use it (using 'join', 'cling' or the like). Come to think of it, is 'hew' used in the unite sense for anything but 'hew to tradition'?

                                                                2. John E. Apr 8, 2013 07:26 PM

                                                                  Are the ingredients referred to as "matériel"?

                                                                  1. monavano Apr 8, 2013 07:49 PM

                                                                    Deploy just sounds stupid. It sounds cold and clinical and that's just not where my head goes when I think of delicious, comforting food.
                                                                    I don't care how much the word "deploy" has penetrated the food world/recipe writing world. It just sounds wrong.

                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                    1. re: monavano
                                                                      kattyeyes Apr 8, 2013 07:52 PM

                                                                      So does "penetrated," but that's just me. ;)

                                                                    2. r
                                                                      ricepad Apr 8, 2013 11:17 PM

                                                                      ...and instead of setting the table, we now carpetbomb the food field.

                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                      1. re: ricepad
                                                                        soypower Apr 9, 2013 11:17 PM

                                                                        Now that's funny!

                                                                        1. re: ricepad
                                                                          i
                                                                          Isolda Apr 10, 2013 07:24 AM

                                                                          You must have witnessed my 16 year old son grudgingly setting the table the other night. I think I'm going to use your new phrase from now on. In his case, it's more accurate and might get him to laugh instead of sulk.

                                                                        2. Bob Martinez Apr 9, 2013 06:17 AM

                                                                          Unless you're sending food to Iraq or Afganistan, "deploy" makes no sense.

                                                                          1 Reply
                                                                          1. re: Bob Martinez
                                                                            melpy Apr 9, 2013 08:53 AM

                                                                            Exactly. I think this would be more confusing.

                                                                          2. RUK Apr 9, 2013 06:22 AM

                                                                            And when did shopping at the grocery store become sourcing your vegetables and whatever else you need?
                                                                            Sourcing sounds so much more knowledgeable....@-@

                                                                            4 Replies
                                                                            1. re: RUK
                                                                              Jay F Apr 9, 2013 02:43 PM

                                                                              "Source" as a verb is the worst of them all. I'm embarrassed to have people know I know anything about food when some fooddouche starts yapping about "sourcing" things.

                                                                              And "______ing" something "off" is only slightly better

                                                                              1. re: Jay F
                                                                                coll Apr 9, 2013 03:31 PM

                                                                                Sourcing is used in wholesale when you call many vendors to get the right price and the right product, at the right quantity and at the right delivery time. Going to the grocery store is NOT sourcing, it's grocery shopping.

                                                                                1. re: coll
                                                                                  RUK Apr 9, 2013 04:14 PM

                                                                                  no kidding.
                                                                                  I saw a thread on another food forum with the title "Food Sourcing Habits"! You are encouraged to tell what, when and where you buy whatever to prepare your lovely meals.

                                                                                  1. re: RUK
                                                                                    Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:39 PM

                                                                                    Um-m pre-cooked at Fresh and Easy?

                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                            2. BiscuitBoy Apr 9, 2013 06:42 AM

                                                                              it "SPEAKS TO" the author's inability to find their own voice, and trying to "THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX." As long as we don't hear about the author "BAKING OFF," instead of "OVEN ROASTING" any "LOCALLY SOURCED, FREE RANGE" products, I'm okay. "THAT BEING SAID" I'm guessing this will be a self published manuscript.

                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                              1. re: BiscuitBoy
                                                                                Candy Apr 9, 2013 08:22 AM

                                                                                No, 10 Speed Press is the publisher. I am just working on a draft. The book has not gone to the publisher yet. I directed the author to this discussion and I think she is reconsidering.

                                                                                1. re: Candy
                                                                                  LindaWhit Apr 9, 2013 08:26 AM

                                                                                  I was going to suggest sending the author this thread, but wasn't sure if you'd want to do that. Glad you did.

                                                                              2. hyacinthgirl Apr 9, 2013 07:12 AM

                                                                                A quick google search of "deploy to the table" does not come up with any cooking sites, only military sites. I feel confident that the average reader today will still have a fundamental subconcious (or conscious) association to a miltary action when they encounter the word "deploy"-the primary definition being: 1.Move (troops) into position for military action.

                                                                                Therefore, if this is a cookbook that is meant to mimic the tone of a hectic restaurant, using "deploy" would add a sense of the cooking/eating environment being a war zone, which might be what the author hopes to convey. If, however, the tone of the cookbook is meant to be homey, using the word "deploy" will be jarring to the reader.

                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                1. re: hyacinthgirl
                                                                                  l
                                                                                  lagatta Apr 9, 2013 07:35 AM

                                                                                  deploy originally meant to unfold or unfurl (from medieval French, and still has some of this sense in modern French, and is of course most used in a military context - to arrange, position troops (probably based on the idea of maps in a war room). I could see using deploy for a restaurant brigade (brigade de cuisine) as that was indeed originally organised on a military pattern, but not food or plates. Unless you are dropping them in little parachutes.

                                                                                2. meatn3 Apr 9, 2013 07:12 AM

                                                                                  Deploy just sounds ridiculous. This use of the word would cause most readers to pause and ponder.

                                                                                  Standardized terms are used to reduce uncertainty. A recipe is a set of directions and as such needs to be clearly phrased.

                                                                                  If the book has enough of this sort of silliness it would put me off.
                                                                                  I read cookbooks to learn and/or to use the information as I cook. Either way odd verbiage will be an impediment.

                                                                                  1. b
                                                                                    beevod Apr 9, 2013 07:20 AM

                                                                                    It should be a hanging offense, much like "plating."

                                                                                    10 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: beevod
                                                                                      g
                                                                                      GH1618 Apr 9, 2013 09:07 AM

                                                                                      "Plating" may be invented restaurantese, but at least it has some utility.

                                                                                      1. re: GH1618
                                                                                        coll Apr 9, 2013 09:32 AM

                                                                                        I don't mind "plating" in a restaurant, but it irks me in a home setting, for some reason.

                                                                                        1. re: coll
                                                                                          kattyeyes Apr 9, 2013 11:00 AM

                                                                                          HA, just as it irks me when Ina says to use "the good vanilla..." No, screw it, these people don't know any better, I'm using THE CRAPPY VANILLA. LOL! I only have "good vanilla"--I don't keep anything else on hand.

                                                                                          I do remember when I was younger and friends came for dinner, my friend's husband commented on the "nice presentation" of my dish. It made me feel all sorts of fancy. :)

                                                                                          1. re: kattyeyes
                                                                                            MGZ Apr 9, 2013 11:03 AM

                                                                                            To me, "plating" is, by definition, "fancy". "Throwin' sh*t onna plate", on the other hand . . . .

                                                                                            1. re: MGZ
                                                                                              kattyeyes Apr 9, 2013 11:09 AM

                                                                                              Well, sure, but we eat first with our eyes, no? I have fancy tendencies, anyway...

                                                                                            2. re: kattyeyes
                                                                                              BiscuitBoy Apr 9, 2013 11:09 AM

                                                                                              Yes, Ina needs a good spanking...I know just the guy for the job

                                                                                              1. re: BiscuitBoy
                                                                                                kattyeyes Apr 9, 2013 11:13 AM

                                                                                                EUUW, just EUUW!

                                                                                                1. re: BiscuitBoy
                                                                                                  Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:37 PM

                                                                                                  Starting to sound like "500 Shades of Gray... "

                                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                                  1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                    kattyeyes Apr 11, 2013 04:30 AM

                                                                                                    500 pounds, maybe...

                                                                                                    1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                      BiscuitBoy Apr 11, 2013 05:58 AM

                                                                                                      No, no...milky white, smooth, soft, a few freckles.....

                                                                                          2. Bob Martinez Apr 9, 2013 09:31 AM

                                                                                            Please tell me that they don't say "utilize." It would make me feel better.

                                                                                            1. Kris in Beijing Apr 9, 2013 09:58 AM

                                                                                              Justtttt in terms of intended meaning with a military overtone, sounds as if
                                                                                              decamp
                                                                                              would be a better term.

                                                                                              Also looks more like thesaurus influenced writing than other cooks -- see this list from http://thesaurus.com/browse/deploy

                                                                                              align, arrange, array, assemble, collect, conduct, deploy, direct, dispose, distribute, draw up, escort, gather, group, lead, line up, methodize, mobilize, muster, order, rally, rank, shepherd, space, systematize, usher

                                                                                              4 Replies
                                                                                              1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                                                                hotoynoodle Apr 9, 2013 10:05 AM

                                                                                                lists like those in a thesaurus ignore connotations.

                                                                                                "deploy" has nothing to do with speediness, so if that's the author's intent she is missing the mark.

                                                                                                my b/f's co-workers often use the word "incent", making a verb out of incentive. makes my teeth itch very time. gah.

                                                                                                1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                  John E. Apr 9, 2013 12:02 PM

                                                                                                  You need to be incentivized.

                                                                                                  1. re: John E.
                                                                                                    Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:36 PM

                                                                                                    I have been, and it is not a pretty sight, nor comfortable to me. It's almost like being pelfed.

                                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                                  2. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                    Kris in Beijing Apr 9, 2013 01:20 PM

                                                                                                    That's what I meant by thesaurus influenced writing... writing a piece then going through and using Word's synonym function to make the wring seem more sophisticated.

                                                                                                2. Gio Apr 9, 2013 11:55 AM

                                                                                                  The word deploy is the wrong word and the wrong action in the wrong setting. It's a malapropism in the worst sense since we've been conditioned to the use of that word in a military setting. To use it in a cookbook intended for home cooks is just ludicrous. Or should I say luscious.

                                                                                                  11 Replies
                                                                                                  1. re: Gio
                                                                                                    MGZ Apr 9, 2013 11:58 AM

                                                                                                    I don't like the use of the word "deploy" in the context the OP explained it, but how is it a malaprop? What was the word the author thought she was using?

                                                                                                    1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                      Gio Apr 9, 2013 12:22 PM

                                                                                                      The author may have intended to use the word "deploy" but it's a confusing word in the wrong context. I suppose "out of context" would have been a better description, although that's one way to describe malapropism.

                                                                                                      1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                        g
                                                                                                        GH1618 Apr 9, 2013 06:31 PM

                                                                                                        It isn't merely in an unusual context, the meaning is not appropriate. "Deploy" means to bring into action systematically, as arranging troops and guns in preparation for battle. But food is not being prepared for action, it is the thing acted upon. The diner might deploy flatware in preparing to attack the meal, however.

                                                                                                        1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                          almond tree Apr 10, 2013 03:36 AM

                                                                                                          "Dispatch," I think.
                                                                                                          Also vaguely military sounding but more appropriate to the context.

                                                                                                        2. re: Gio
                                                                                                          m
                                                                                                          mugen Apr 9, 2013 02:08 PM

                                                                                                          fyi, malapropism is (from memory - i feel as though i'd be cheating to refer to a dictionary - so excuse any minor errors) some sort of absurd victorian invention that was created from the name of a character of a play/book (the name is ultimately referable to latin) and the addition of the -ism suffix. i say this only because it's about the worst possible choice of word to use to correct solecisms.

                                                                                                          1. re: mugen
                                                                                                            s
                                                                                                            small h Apr 9, 2013 03:38 PM

                                                                                                            The word comes from Mrs. Malaprop, a character in The Rivals by Richard Brinsley Sheridan. (And I'm glad I looked it up, because if I had to rely on memory I would've said the play was The School for Scandal, and how terribly embarrassing *that* would have been.) She refers to someone as having reached "the pineapple of success." Food reference!

                                                                                                            But yeah, I wouldn't call "deploy" a malapropism, unless the author meant to say "decoy" or "destroy" or something like that.

                                                                                                            1. re: small h
                                                                                                              globocity Apr 9, 2013 08:58 PM

                                                                                                              For all *intensive* purposes, we will not label "deploy" as a malapropism.
                                                                                                              Thanks for the info on its origin. Interesting stuff.

                                                                                                              1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                s
                                                                                                                small h Apr 9, 2013 09:27 PM

                                                                                                                "For all intensive purposes" is an excellent malapropism, as is "spitting image." I carry a few more around with me: "it's a doggie dog world" and "she works for a fourteen five hundred company" and "he was the Val Victorian of his high school class."

                                                                                                                1. re: small h
                                                                                                                  jmcarthur8 Apr 10, 2013 04:09 AM

                                                                                                                  I never knew that about spittin' image! Thanks!

                                                                                                                  1. re: jmcarthur8
                                                                                                                    greygarious Apr 11, 2013 06:05 PM

                                                                                                                    That form of malapropism is also called an "eggcorn" - googling yields some collecting sites. I captured one in the wild on Chowhound - someone referred to feeling rather "screamish" (mishearing of squeamish) about some foodstuff or other.

                                                                                                              2. re: small h
                                                                                                                Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:34 PM

                                                                                                                Thank you for saving me having to look that up too. My "memory" would not have been as close as yours, though the results could well have been humorous, none the less. The character was there, but the source was rather confused...

                                                                                                                Appreciated,

                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                          2. PattiCakes Apr 9, 2013 12:45 PM

                                                                                                            "Deploy"? Is this by any chance a book about cooking in the military? If the food is not deployed correctly, is it FUBAR?

                                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                                            1. re: PattiCakes
                                                                                                              kattyeyes Apr 9, 2013 12:57 PM

                                                                                                              Or is it just a SNAFU? :)

                                                                                                            2. hohokam Apr 9, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                              Aww, man. I thought this was going to be a thread about having leftover din-din for brekkie.

                                                                                                              1. p
                                                                                                                pine time Apr 9, 2013 01:46 PM

                                                                                                                I agree with the consensus that "deploy" is a poor word choice, and it does not connote nor denote immediacy, as the author seems to think.

                                                                                                                1. s
                                                                                                                  sandylc Apr 9, 2013 02:33 PM

                                                                                                                  There are many irritating foodspeak words and phrases; one that I notice often is "add in". I noticed that someone has already mentioned "bake off".

                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                  1. re: sandylc
                                                                                                                    almond tree Apr 10, 2013 03:40 AM

                                                                                                                    How about "sub in" or its evil cousin "sub with"?
                                                                                                                    Aaaagh ... fingernails on the blackboard, especially when repeated "ad nauseum" (sic -- or is that "sick"?).

                                                                                                                  2. p
                                                                                                                    pedalfaster Apr 9, 2013 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                    forthcoming

                                                                                                                    (sorry this a re-post of a lost post--WTF?)

                                                                                                                    I just wanted to say that "deploy" bothers me as well. Unless the author intends the canapes be flown in by little plastic Army-dudes. The green dudes with the clear plastic parachutes? That could be cool...and gives one great party ideas.

                                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                                    1. re: pedalfaster
                                                                                                                      p
                                                                                                                      pine time Apr 10, 2013 09:44 AM

                                                                                                                      Uh oh: I'm having visions of "tablescapes" to accompany those little plastic Army-dudes, pedalfaster!

                                                                                                                      1. re: pine time
                                                                                                                        s
                                                                                                                        sandylc Apr 10, 2013 11:13 AM

                                                                                                                        Oh dear, PLEASE save me from tablescapes!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                    2. h
                                                                                                                      HillJ Apr 9, 2013 04:36 PM

                                                                                                                      what type of a cookbook is it? does the word deploy fit in anywhere (as in theme)? http://www.amazon.com/Military-Wives-...

                                                                                                                      where has the author seen it used in the context of a cookbook?

                                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                        Candy Apr 10, 2013 11:10 AM

                                                                                                                        It would not be fair to the author for me to publish the name. It is not set in stone. After this I hope the word will be changed to something more appropriate

                                                                                                                        1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                          HillJ Apr 10, 2013 11:14 AM

                                                                                                                          Candy, I only asked about a theme, not a title. I respect the work parameters.

                                                                                                                          I'm curious what word the author will change deploy to.

                                                                                                                      2. e
                                                                                                                        emu48 Apr 10, 2013 01:21 AM

                                                                                                                        Not as annoying as first-, second- or whatever-year anniversary. Or chai tea. Or pita bread. I've seen pitted fruit refer to fruits with pits and fruits without. Or when they tell me to use "good olive oil." I would, of course, use bad olive oil if they hadn't said that.

                                                                                                                        20 Replies
                                                                                                                        1. re: emu48
                                                                                                                          sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 01:50 AM

                                                                                                                          wait...what?

                                                                                                                          A fifth anniversary isn't being cutesy -- it's specifying that this is the fifth time that this particular date has come around.

                                                                                                                          I'm following you on the repetition of "tea" and "bread" -- but until everyone knows that chai is a rather specific KIND of tea and that pita is a rather specific KIND of bread, I'm afraid we're stuck with it.

                                                                                                                          "Pitted" falls under the same category as flammable/inflammable/non-flammable.

                                                                                                                          But yes..."use the good olive oil" makes me want to just throw the bottle at the person who utters it.

                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                            mbfant Apr 10, 2013 04:51 AM

                                                                                                                            I hate that anniversary usage too -- one-year, two-year, etc., anniversary, instead of first anniversary, second anniversary. On reflection, it may be an outgrowth of anniversary inflation, whereby smaller increments of time are celebrated ("our three-week anniversary!") and it becomes necessary to specify that one is indeed talking about years (though that is implicit in the word anniversary).

                                                                                                                            As for "good" olive oil, I may be guilty of that or some variation on it. The fact is that a lot of the olive oil people use every day is not good. Or many people keep cheaper oil for cooking, better oil for use raw. When the oil is going to be particularly out front in a dish, the instruction to use "good" oil seems innocent shorthand for "break out the good stuff here," a time-honored concept applicable to much more than olive oil.

                                                                                                                            1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                              sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 05:06 AM

                                                                                                                              ah, okay..it's using "5-year" versus "fifth" - Wasn't following that. You're right, it's dead wrong.

                                                                                                                              But the "use the good stuff" is one of Ina Garten's most annoying phrases....she uses it with the implication that all of poor unwashed, uneducated slobs just don't know any better and wouldn't know when to use it if we even had it.

                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                mbfant Apr 10, 2013 05:34 AM

                                                                                                                                I've never seen Ina Garten, but the phrase, and concept, surely antedate her. How are you going to express "Sunday best"?

                                                                                                                                1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                  Jay F Apr 10, 2013 05:52 AM

                                                                                                                                  My ex-girlfriend's mother and grandmother used to say "the good _______" all the time. My ex-girlfriend is six years younger than Ina, so yes, it predates Ina. All three were Jewish. Maybe "the good _______" comes from Yiddish?

                                                                                                                                  I've said it ever since I met this ex-girlfriend. And why not? If you sent my father to the store, he'd come home with "the cheap _____." In my current existence, so would my friend the Coupon King. People like this, you have to specify "the good _____."

                                                                                                                                  1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                    sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 08:37 AM

                                                                                                                                    the phrase exists, to be sure, but there's just something about the way she says it that makes my teeth itch.

                                                                                                                                    She can barely hide her contempt for the folks who don't have a cottage in the Hamptons and don't know enough about cooking that they have to watch her show (referring to her attitude, not my opinion, by the way)

                                                                                                                                    1. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                      Jay F Apr 10, 2013 09:46 AM

                                                                                                                                      I don't hear contempt in Ina's voice at all.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                        Terrie H. Apr 11, 2013 02:38 PM

                                                                                                                                        To me, "the best" isn't cute speak in the same line with the contrived and trendy terms that others have mentioned in this thread. I don't hear it as contempt, but more of an assumption that everyone has "the best" on hand and available to them. I'd wager that 90% of her audience just does their best with what they have on hand, and it comes out fine without the $25 bottle of olive oil.

                                                                                                                                    2. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                      hotoynoodle Apr 10, 2013 06:31 AM

                                                                                                                                      do they even sell "the not good stuff" in the hamptons?

                                                                                                                                  2. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                    r
                                                                                                                                    Rasam Apr 10, 2013 06:44 AM

                                                                                                                                    Hi Sunshine:

                                                                                                                                    I share the laughter on this thread at the 'cute speak' issues. But one point:

                                                                                                                                    the word "chai" just means tea, not one specific kind of tea. There are similar sounding words for tea in languages all across Asia/Middle East.

                                                                                                                                    The spiced tea that people in the US are thinking of is "masala chai" aka 'chai with masala' aka 'spiced tea'. But somehow the inaccurate usage 'chai tea' or 'chai spices' have taken on a life of their own.

                                                                                                                                    So, everyone should know that chai is NOT a specific kind of tea, but ......

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Rasam
                                                                                                                                      hotoynoodle Apr 10, 2013 06:51 AM

                                                                                                                                      are you drinking that chai tea alongside your shrimp scampi?

                                                                                                                                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                        r
                                                                                                                                        Rasam Apr 10, 2013 08:18 AM

                                                                                                                                        eaten with naan bread? :)

                                                                                                                                        1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                          l
                                                                                                                                          lagatta Apr 10, 2013 10:07 AM

                                                                                                                                          scampi isn't the same beastie as shrimp. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scampi

                                                                                                                                          1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                            mbfant Apr 10, 2013 01:54 PM

                                                                                                                                            wouldn't a latte be better? (talk about pet peeves ...)

                                                                                                                                          2. re: Rasam
                                                                                                                                            sunshine842 Apr 10, 2013 08:38 AM

                                                                                                                                            sorry -- I realize the translation of the word, but it is (for better or worse) not the way it has been adopted in Europe or the US (because in France they say thé de chai, too).

                                                                                                                                            So there's tea, and there's chai, but they may or may not bear any resemblance to one another.

                                                                                                                                          3. re: sunshine842
                                                                                                                                            Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:30 PM

                                                                                                                                            Sunshine,

                                                                                                                                            It could be worse - it could be "EVVO." Now that is not E-W-O, but E-V-V-O, and most will know what I am talking about.

                                                                                                                                            Hunt

                                                                                                                                          4. re: emu48
                                                                                                                                            Midlife Apr 11, 2013 05:52 PM

                                                                                                                                            I don't think I can let this one go. Somewhere in the lexicon of the quality of things is the use of the words "good", "better", and "best" to differentiate levels of quality. Are you really suggesting that there's no difference in the taste of finished food product that is effected by the relative quality level of ingredients? Or are we just hacking away at Ina on the assumption that she's comparing only "good" vs. "bad"?

                                                                                                                                            Then, again, maybe this is just my OCD showing. ;o]

                                                                                                                                            1. re: emu48
                                                                                                                                              ecumer Apr 13, 2013 08:20 PM

                                                                                                                                              No no, the opposite of good olive oil is ... EVIL olive oil.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: ecumer
                                                                                                                                                meatn3 Apr 13, 2013 10:06 PM

                                                                                                                                                I had suspected something nasty was at play those nights when a nice dinner suddenly turned bad...it was the EVIL olive oil sabotaging my efforts!

                                                                                                                                                1. re: meatn3
                                                                                                                                                  PotatoHouse Apr 14, 2013 07:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                  You should deploy it to the Middle East immediately.

                                                                                                                                            2. s
                                                                                                                                              small h Apr 10, 2013 05:42 AM

                                                                                                                                              I'm just going to leave this here:

                                                                                                                                              http://www.180nyc.com/index.html

                                                                                                                                              Anyone who can tell me what the writer really means by "the tangible New Yorker's quintessential Neapolitan Eatery" gets a "recommend" from me.

                                                                                                                                              27 Replies
                                                                                                                                              1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                h
                                                                                                                                                HillJ Apr 10, 2013 05:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                LOL. The owners must have worked and reworked that paragraph a zillion times to get it "just so" and all you've got is a "so-what".....

                                                                                                                                                cute speak is here to stay. we all fall prey to it. admit the message may not always land where intended but marketing moves the bus everywhere. and, marketing men quickly improve right before our eyes.

                                                                                                                                                those ads we can't get out of our head. those jingles we sing in the car...yeah, it works.

                                                                                                                                                take a look at a book jacket, the quotes from important voices in the literary world endorsing the book in your hand.

                                                                                                                                                What's new about a turn of phrase?

                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                  h
                                                                                                                                                  HillJ Apr 10, 2013 06:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                  Candy, I do hope you come back and share what word was deployed instead. :)

                                                                                                                                                2. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                  hyacinthgirl Apr 10, 2013 06:06 AM

                                                                                                                                                  That is amazing. My favorite is this entire sentence: "Master Chef Salvatore Olivella has designed a Menu, fusing a modern day spin on family recipes passed down from three generations ago in Naples, Italy."

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hyacinthgirl
                                                                                                                                                    h
                                                                                                                                                    HillJ Apr 10, 2013 06:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                    "M" on menu.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                      hotoynoodle Apr 10, 2013 06:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                      "M" for "Meatballs".

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                        hyacinthgirl Apr 10, 2013 08:22 AM

                                                                                                                                                        That was the first bit that struck me too, just fantastic, but the rest of the sentence is gold as well.

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: hyacinthgirl
                                                                                                                                                        s
                                                                                                                                                        sr44 Apr 10, 2013 06:45 AM

                                                                                                                                                        The Sushi Parma is pretty alarming by itself.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: hyacinthgirl
                                                                                                                                                          m
                                                                                                                                                          MelMM Apr 10, 2013 07:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                          Oh, that's good, but I'm going with this one: "The restaurant concept is the first of its kind, adapted by a team contrived of culinarions, masons, cicerones and brand architects."

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                            s
                                                                                                                                                            small h Apr 10, 2013 07:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                            I think it's safe to say that this website has unfortunately contracted thesaurusitis, a word I thought I made up, but I did not:

                                                                                                                                                            http://www.urbandictionary.com/define...

                                                                                                                                                            Either that, or it's a bad translation from the original Martian.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                              hyacinthgirl Apr 10, 2013 08:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                              I had a tough time choosing between the two! "The restaurant concept is...adapted by a team contrived of..."? What does that mean?!
                                                                                                                                                              And how can something that is "the first of its kind" be "adapted?" Did they mean "adopted" and if so, does that make it any better?!

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: hyacinthgirl
                                                                                                                                                                m
                                                                                                                                                                MelMM Apr 10, 2013 10:21 AM

                                                                                                                                                                To be honest, when I first looked at the site, I thought it was a spoof of a restaurant Web site. I'm still not completely convinced it isn't!

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                  LindaWhit Apr 10, 2013 10:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  Looks like they're hitting the PR pretty hard:

                                                                                                                                                                  https://www.prbuzz.com/lifestyle/107621-historic-little-italy-makes-a-comeback.html

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny8ssO...

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                    k
                                                                                                                                                                    kcshigekawa Apr 10, 2013 11:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I thought it was a spoof too...

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                              LindaWhit Apr 10, 2013 06:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                              Probably not the best use of the word "privy" when speaking about a restaurant. Yes, I know it means knowing something secret, but using another term for an outhouse is ill-conceived.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                meatn3 Apr 10, 2013 06:48 AM

                                                                                                                                                                Contrived seems a poor choice too. I tend to use the word as a sense of artificiality rather than deliberately created.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: meatn3
                                                                                                                                                                  LindaWhit Apr 10, 2013 07:05 AM

                                                                                                                                                                  That as well. And WTH are "culinarions" - are they like Roman centurions? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                    meatn3 Apr 10, 2013 07:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                    I guess with a "strategically hidden elevator entrance" they would have to be darn hungry and armed with a compass to find the place!

                                                                                                                                                                    Sadly, someone was probably very proud of their writing.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                      hotoynoodle Apr 10, 2013 08:00 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      if only -- then they could have cudgeled the writers.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                                                        almond tree Apr 10, 2013 10:46 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        Writers were probably some poor hacks getting paid by the syllable.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                                                          Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          I think that a major charcuterie cudgel would be appropriate!

                                                                                                                                                                          Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                    missmasala Apr 10, 2013 08:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                    I was amused but just assumed that the writers used google translate to translate from the Italian. Some of the sentence constructions and word choices (ie. tangible) were reminiscent of when I've used google translate to translate a hotel review from Italian into English.

                                                                                                                                                                    edited to add: just looked at the menu and now even more convinced. The menu is barely in English.

                                                                                                                                                                    This is just some Italians relying on google translate.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: missmasala
                                                                                                                                                                      s
                                                                                                                                                                      small h Apr 11, 2013 05:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                      That's a good theory, and I have no idea who's responsible for the website, but the owners of the restaurant are Louis and Anthony Fontana, and they're American. Anthony's bio on the site of his other restaurant, Slide, says he's a native New Yorker (and Slide's website doesn't have any bizarre-ness):

                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.sliderestaurant.com/restau...

                                                                                                                                                                      Which probably means a fluent English speaker at least *approved* the text on the 180nyc site.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                        hotoynoodle Apr 11, 2013 06:37 AM

                                                                                                                                                                        this is common on winery websites too.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                          missmasala Apr 12, 2013 05:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          If a fluent english speaker approved the text, that's very depressing. I think maybe the owners forgot to approve it.

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: missmasala
                                                                                                                                                                            s
                                                                                                                                                                            small h Apr 12, 2013 07:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            I hope so. Let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt and assume they're so focused on the food & service that they neglected to oversee the website.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: missmasala
                                                                                                                                                                          l
                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Apr 11, 2013 05:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          Yes, the vocabulary and syntax is very Italian.

                                                                                                                                                                          Moreover, overly elaborate language is often used in the most banal context in Italy - such as notices about proper behaviour on buses or prohibitions on throwing trash out of train windows.

                                                                                                                                                                          Like the Italian love of titles. A friend of mine is a law professor in an Italian city. He was leaving his car at the parking lot and the attendant actually adressed him as "Professor Lawyer (name)"...

                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: small h
                                                                                                                                                                          b
                                                                                                                                                                          Bkeats Apr 19, 2013 12:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                          Wow. The only word in the description which truly describes this place is "contrived."

                                                                                                                                                                        4. l
                                                                                                                                                                          lagatta Apr 10, 2013 11:36 AM

                                                                                                                                                                          I wouldn't really describe pretentious, precious or stilted language as "cute speak". To my mind, that describes groanworthy folksyness. You all know the worst examples of the latter...

                                                                                                                                                                          17 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                            w
                                                                                                                                                                            wyogal Apr 10, 2013 03:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                            That's what I was thinking. I thought this thread was going to be about "sammies," and "appies."

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: wyogal
                                                                                                                                                                              Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                              Ah, like fingernails on a chalkboard!

                                                                                                                                                                              Same for "somes" for "sommeliers," or similar.

                                                                                                                                                                              Luckily (for me at least), CH does not see THAT much of such terms, where some other sites DO!

                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: wyogal
                                                                                                                                                                                g
                                                                                                                                                                                gourmanda Apr 11, 2013 06:32 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                Or veggies. I hate to hear that "word".

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: gourmanda
                                                                                                                                                                                  LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 06:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                  What about "veg"?

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: gourmanda
                                                                                                                                                                                    mbfant Apr 11, 2013 06:52 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                    +1!!!!!!!! I hate "veggies" but can live with "veg."

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mbfant
                                                                                                                                                                                      Jay F Apr 11, 2013 09:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                      I can't stand "veggies." When I read it, I imagine the person at the other end of the online connection being 8 years old.

                                                                                                                                                                                      "Veg" is much easier. It's a simple abbreviation in which you lose 2/3 of the letters in "vegetable." No cutesy-pie-ing as with adding the diminutive "gie."

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Apr 11, 2013 09:35 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        It's the logical plural of "veg", particularly in spoken language.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Or would you pronounce that "vegs"?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                          Jay F Apr 11, 2013 09:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                          I only use "veg" in writing, just as I write "chix" for chicken (though I really only use "chix" for shopping lists). When I talk about vegetables, I say "vegetables."

                                                                                                                                                                                          If I were writing for publication, I would write "vegetable" or "vegetables" every single time. Never, ever, "veggie" or "veggies."

                                                                                                                                                                                          EDIT: If I were to pluralize "veg," though, I would say "vedges." But I'm not.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Apr 11, 2013 11:15 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Most folks don't write for publication, but thx for the clarificash.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                              Jay F Apr 11, 2013 11:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                              The original post is about a book for which Candy's testing recipes.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Apr 11, 2013 11:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, I am aware of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                It was another group of posters who started venting (OT) about the perceived misuse of abbreviations as "cutesy".

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                  hotoynoodle Apr 11, 2013 03:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  appies and sammies drive me much further round the bend than do veggies. the first 2 sound like something you make for babies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                                                                                    linguafood Apr 11, 2013 03:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes. But each one of us has their own little pet peeves, issues, obsessions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    So to get pissed off about one thing or another, when really, they're totally unimportant in the big scheme of things.... well, let's just say I can find nicer ways to spend my time & energy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                      hotoynoodle Apr 11, 2013 03:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      i'm a word nerd for sure, but this stuff certainly doesn't "piss me off", lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      after all, i work with the public. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                                                                                        linguafood Apr 11, 2013 03:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I work from home. There are all kinds of things that piss me off. Other people's use of words (unless horrifyingly incorrect, like the rampant misuse of "literally" these days), is not one of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Apr 11, 2013 05:53 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            I think of "veg" as a collective or mass noun, with no plural.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: gourmanda
                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 11, 2013 09:08 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                        I put veggies in fridge all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. s
                                                                                                                                                                                    SamuelAt Apr 10, 2013 12:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                    Ugh, deploy sounds more like something you do with a missle than an entree! Also in the world of "cute speak", I hate when servers in a restaurant mutter "pardon my reach" every time they need to place something on the table.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. ttoommyy Apr 10, 2013 12:41 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                      "Take bone for instance, we use boning knives to bone meat. In cute speak it is now debone. Even spell check does not like debone."

                                                                                                                                                                                      Spell check is only as good as the software you are using. The Merriam Webster dictionary (among others) lists "debone" as a word.

                                                                                                                                                                                      22 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 10, 2013 01:19 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                        2008 thread: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/522644
                                                                                                                                                                                        bone or debone

                                                                                                                                                                                        Google ngram, 'debone a chicken' v 'bone a chicken'
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?...

                                                                                                                                                                                        In American English they are now about equally common. 'debone' is not found in their British English database.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Do we bug or debug software? Can you 'bone' something, as in adding 'bones'? Why is that in some cases 'to x something' means to add 'x', and in others to remove 'x'. Why not be consistent and always use 'to de-x something' when we remove 'x'?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                          Kris in Beijing Apr 10, 2013 01:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                          When building a corset, you would debone the whale and then bone the corset?

                                                                                                                                                                                          {please ignore NSFW implications.}

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                                                                                                                                                            l
                                                                                                                                                                                            lagatta Apr 10, 2013 02:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh cripes, someone actually beat me to the whalebone corset!

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: lagatta
                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj Apr 10, 2013 04:49 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              And whalebone is not really bone, but baleen. Modern boning is more likely to be made from steel or plastic.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                                                                                                                                                              Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 07:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              But if too tight, then the corset could be "deboned," so as to not cause asphyxiation...

                                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                            3. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                              g
                                                                                                                                                                                              GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 01:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                              The English language is the wrong place to look for consistency. English has always had many inconsistencies, even after attempts by reformers such as Johnson and Webster to standardize it. Most deviations from standard English arise not out of a pure motive of seeking to improve the consistency of the standard, but out of simple ignorance.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                Well, considering that US English is my "second language," being a Mississippian first, I am not sure that there is any way around my ignorance. If there is, I would love to read of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                  g
                                                                                                                                                                                                  GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 08:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  There's nothing wrong with regionalisms in informal use of language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kris in Beijing Apr 10, 2013 08:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "OH, start here," she says casually and not to get anyone all riled up:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Through the fence, between the curling flower spaces, I could see them hitting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                  g
                                                                                                                                                                                                  GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 01:34 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, "bug" and "debug" are slang terms. In standard English, when software contains a fault, we correct it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gaffk Apr 10, 2013 01:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've worked with too many folks who bug software; I strive to debug it ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: ttoommyy
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Candy Apr 10, 2013 01:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                    because it is common usage is how it ended up in the MW Dict. It is not in my American Heritage dic. Common usage does not make it proper language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      g
                                                                                                                                                                                                      GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 01:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's right, the current trend is for dictionaries to document everything, usually without regard to whether a word is standard English or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I recently bought The New Shorter Oxford (published in 1993). I've decided it's the last dictionary I'll buy. If newer dictionaries have more words, I'm not interested in them. Nearly 100,000 headwords are enough for me to express myself and to read most things I am interested in reading.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'll make an exception for professional jargon, however.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 10, 2013 01:51 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                        What were dictionaries originally based on if, if it wasn't common usage?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        People were able to communicate quite nicely before dictionaries were invented. And the initial ones were set up for translation (e.g. Latin-Greek). Even the venerable OED was intended to document current and past usage, not to set a standard for centuries to come.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://public.oed.com/history-of-the-oed/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Not only are the complexities of the English language formidable, but it also never stops evolving. Murray and his Dictionary colleagues had to keep track of new words and new meanings of existing words at the same time that they were trying to examine the previous seven centuries of the language’s development."

                                                                                                                                                                                                        'debone' appears in the 2011 list of new OED words
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/recent-updates-to-the-oed/previous-updates/june-2011/new-words-list/

                                                                                                                                                                                                        More on 'pit verbs' and 'debone verbs'
                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/200...

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                          g
                                                                                                                                                                                                          GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 02:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The first dictionaries were developed in a linguistic environment which admitted myriad spellings and many variations in usage. They did not attempt to document every variation, they attempted to standardize it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Standardization of language serves the interests of civilization. The language should be expanded to include new concepts as needed, but not merely to accomodate ignorance, in my opinion. Adding "debone" is an example of the latter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                            g
                                                                                                                                                                                                            GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 02:29 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            And by the way, the OED was based on language found in published works, written by professional writers for the most part, and edited by professional editors. Nowadays any semiliterate person can publish on the World-Wide-Web without benefit of editors. If the OED is now documenting everything they can dredge up on the Web, that's good reason never to buy another one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                              paulj Apr 10, 2013 03:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/r...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              says nothing about restricting their data collection to professionally written and edited published material.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 03:26 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                If they no longer do, that's the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paulj Apr 10, 2013 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/dnb/3...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sir James Augustus Henry Murray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  " the proposed new one was to be based on historical principles: that is, each word and meaning was to be supported by evidence drawn from works of every kind—those of famous authors, such as Chaucer, Malory, Shakespeare, Milton, Pope, Wordsworth, and Dickens, but also those of ‘minor’ authors, private letters, glossaries and early dictionaries, technical handbooks, newspapers, learned journals, and so on."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 08:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's right. A good description of the beginnings of the OED can be founf in The Professor and the Madman by Simon Winchester.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The interesting part of the quote you have given is "learned journals." It used to be thought that the question of what was proper language usage was the province of the educated, not the barely literate. Now one must to the writers of usage guides (e.g. Garner) for that perspective, not dictionaries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Kris in Beijing Apr 10, 2013 08:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Three things --

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1) I sense a good bit of "get off my lawn"-ing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2) In ESL/EFL courses outside of the US, it is a common acknowledgement that ANY WORD can be an English Word, although it will probably lose the inflections from its original language if it becomes a commonly used term.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3) for a real education on contemporary language usage, skim the user-generated Urban Dictionary.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 08:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              If one relies on a dictionary, where the word "software" is not listed, does that mean that it does not exist?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. r
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Rasam Apr 10, 2013 02:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have to say this is one of my favorite threads on this entire forum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Deploy" food?! Who knew?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The replies and other examples have been so funny and informative too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Jay F Apr 10, 2013 03:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've heard people say they "debone" a chicken, or chicken breasts, plenty over the years. Either one sounds perfectly natural to me. In fact, I can't say I've ever thought about it before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            16 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                                              John E. Apr 10, 2013 04:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I see a 'seeded' watermelon in the store, I don't know for sure whether it does or does not have seeds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: John E.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 04:44 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't believe you. The terminology for watermelon (seeded or seedless) is pretty well established. Once you buy one, you'll find out. If you never buy one, it doesn't matter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  John E. Apr 10, 2013 05:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You don't have to believe me. I may be exaggerating a bit for effect, but there is a local store that has a person making the signs that has no clue. If you ever run out of apostrophes, they have a lot of extras that they are using, but shouldn't be using.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: John E.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jay F Apr 10, 2013 05:39 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm that way with iodized salt. Does "iodized" mean iodine was added or taken out?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    MelMM Apr 10, 2013 06:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, that's an easy one. Added. Iodine is intentionally added to salt, because years ago, iodine deficiency was a problem. It's much like fluoridated water (or chlorinated water, for that matter).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sr44 Apr 10, 2013 07:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Chlorine is added to water to eliminate bacteria. Fluorine does that in addition to reducing decay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sr44
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MelMM Apr 11, 2013 04:13 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My point was that they are added, and when you say water is chlorinated, it means chlorine was added to it, just as when you see iodized salt, it is because iodine was added. All of them the are added for a reason, but I did not mean to imply that the reason was the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jay F Apr 11, 2013 09:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        By that logic, Mel, "deboned" would be the correct word to describe having taken the bones out of chicken. That's where my confusion lies, anyway (iodized is not "an easy one" for me).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          MelMM Apr 11, 2013 10:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No one ever said the English language (or any language) was logical, or consistent, for that matter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: John E.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      DuchessNukem Apr 10, 2013 06:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Lol. Try 'hulled', 'dehulled', and 'hulless' oats if you want a little more confusion. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ETA: forgot 'unhulled'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: DuchessNukem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 10, 2013 06:22 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've mainly seen the '..hull..' applied to barley. If there is confusion it's because most of us don't know what the hull and bran of barley is like, or how has to be processed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/types-of-barley

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hulled Barley (sometimes called Dehulled Barley)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hulled barley is covered barley that has been minimally processed to remove only the tough inedible outer hull. It's challenging to remove the hull carefully so that some of the bran is not lost....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hulless Barley

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This type of barley has an outer hull that's so loosely attached to the kernel that it generally falls off during harvesting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pearl barley has been polished, or "pearled" to remove some or all of the outer bran layer along with the hull. ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        With oats things are simpler. I've only seen oat groats.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/in...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oats, like barley, have a hard outer hull that must be removed before it's ready for human consumption. ... if you want whole oats to eat, purchase them already hulled. Hulled oats, called oat groats, look very much like rye or Triticale. Unlike barley which must have it's hull sanded off damaging the seed, an oat groat kernel's outer bran layer is still intact after de-hulling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          John E. Apr 10, 2013 06:38 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A few years ago I strarted to make a breakfast cereal in a slow cooker with all of the grains you mentioned plus rye, wheat berries, brown rice, wild rice, flaxmeal, plus buckwheat groats. It's quite 'earthy' but satisfying. I also put in steel cut oats. These days I mostly just make steel cut oats, also in a slow cooker.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: Jay F
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 07:57 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, to de-bone, a la "debone," sounds fine with me. I think that it should be to "remove the bones," and have seen that term for decades. Some knifes are even called "deboning knives." That one does not bother me, SpellCheck aside. BTW - "SpellCheck" yielded an error. Maybe I should have said "Spell Check?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Candy Apr 11, 2013 08:17 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've been selling knives for almost 40 years. I have sold a lot of Boning Knives, labeled as such. I have never seen a knife labeled Deboning Knife.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HillJ Apr 11, 2013 08:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DEXTER-RUSSELL-Deboning-Knife-20Y654
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a deboning knife.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.amazon.com/Chicken-Debonin...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          deboning knife for chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wyogal Apr 19, 2013 02:58 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We have de boning knife, de paring knife, de butter knife..... ;P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. GraydonCarter Apr 10, 2013 03:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mario Batali now insists on pronouncing "fibrous" in British style like the cute-speakers now pronouce the word "Culinary".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: GraydonCarter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hotoynoodle Apr 11, 2013 06:39 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hanging out with gwyneth, don'tchaknow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Candy Apr 10, 2013 05:00 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I made a mistake. It was to deploy the chicken to the sandwich, sorry if I confused anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LindaWhit Apr 10, 2013 05:21 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Doesn't matter. It's still not the correct use of the word, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MelMM Apr 10, 2013 06:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, geez, that's even worse!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                meatn3 Apr 10, 2013 07:32 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Actually that sounds sillier than deploying to the table.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Bill Hunt Apr 10, 2013 07:54 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  A military contingent (force) gets "deployed." I cannot imagine how a chicken, used in a sandwich would be "deployed."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That said, I find that many chefs, and restaurants, want to use an entirely different vocabulary, to set themselves apart, and often it just does not work. "Cute speak," is running rampant, and not just in the verbs on when/how to get an item onto a dish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just dined at a restaurant, where the menu must have been written by an Asian, a Mexican, an Indian and maybe both a Scottsman and a Frenchman. The terms used were a total mis-mash of various languages, and very confusing, at least to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kris in Beijing Apr 10, 2013 08:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Pleeeeeeeease grant us a sample!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Even if it's half-remembered.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Bill Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      GH1618 Apr 10, 2013 08:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "... an entirely different vocabulary, to set themselves apart ..."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Perhaps, but every profession has its jargon, and much of it is useful. Only some jargon is outright foolishness — there is nothing wrong with jargon in principle, in my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wyogal Apr 11, 2013 05:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Even worse! The image of all these chickens in military uniforms, filing onto a ship... destination: sandwich!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: wyogal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        kattyeyes Apr 11, 2013 05:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's like a Pink Floyd video, can't you see 'em marching now?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. paulj Apr 11, 2013 12:25 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is it ok to deploy the kitchen brigade?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hotoynoodle Apr 11, 2013 06:40 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        guns and butter, yo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: hotoynoodle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          BiscuitBoy Apr 11, 2013 09:07 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          limit on 30 sticks per mag....er, carton

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Candy Apr 11, 2013 08:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess this is no worse that those creative people in the automobile industry when it comes to naming products. That has always made my curious. Who can a Cobalt be red? How about the men's fragrance Quorum? Do these people just pick words because they like the way they sound? I know this is off topic, but we have strayed a bit on this thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HillJ Apr 11, 2013 08:31 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, explain the two deboning knives I just linked. Major retail/wholesalers renaming a knife. I have no idea why they are using the word deboning. Curious to learn tho.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jay F Apr 11, 2013 09:20 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've always assumed car manufacturers use something like a slot machine, which instead of having little pictures of lemons and cherries and apples, has syllables or word fragments. You pull on the lever and come up with something like e-lan-tra or a-le-ro, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Candy Apr 11, 2013 02:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sorry no Who but How can a Cobalt. Dyslexic spelling!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Midlife Apr 11, 2013 05:42 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >>>"Do these people just pick words because they like the way they sound?"<<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In two words.......... sometimes Yes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Midlife
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sandylc Apr 12, 2013 01:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Like naming a rock band.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                MelMM Apr 11, 2013 10:42 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just ran across this in a cookbook review:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "As you’d expect, ginger, garlic, and scallions are deployed to create a stunning variety of effects."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Shouldn't it be "employed"? Or just "used"? Given the conversation, I'm curious to hear what the rest of you think. Link to full article below.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/food...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                24 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  HillJ Apr 11, 2013 10:53 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think a cookbook review dated April 9th, 2013 just gave the OP something to think about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  A turn of phrase....here to stay....the author in question just found another, current example using the word deploy in a cookbook context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 11:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And yet the use of "deployed" is completely incorrect as it was used.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      HillJ Apr 11, 2013 11:11 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Perhaps, perhaps a turn of phrase is as good as any choice these days. To say words don't get used and then they are used..well, LW, I can appreciate the irony and it doesn't bother me one wit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's really not for me to say what words should be used in a newspaper, book, etc. I'll leave it to the professionals...who seem to enjoy a turn of phrase anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MGZ Apr 11, 2013 11:18 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "[I]t doesn't bother me one wit."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Shouldn't that be "one whit"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Otherwise, I'm of the mindset that there's some real straw clutchin' happenin' on this thread. I can't help but think that, in time, folks are gonna understand that just 'cause they learned that a word meant something when they learned it, doesn't mean it won't mean something different today or tomorrow. The best thing will be when they start using it the new way some day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          almond tree Apr 11, 2013 11:23 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          By that logic, maybe "wit" means "whit" today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And tomorrow, who knows?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Maybe we'll all be whitless.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: almond tree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MGZ Apr 11, 2013 11:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Not Linda.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              almond tree Apr 11, 2013 11:29 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              good one

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 11:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have my moments, good and bad, MGZ. :-) I fear age might have something to do with it. At least that's what I'm blaming it on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  HillJ Apr 11, 2013 11:55 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Too bad I didn't have the chance to reply for myself, LW.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I meant wit...and that the thread is truly lost on me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Now if I was being hired to edit a book I'd probably approach this differently. But honestly I don't have a problem with any turn of phrase.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 12:08 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Too bad I didn't have the chance to reply for myself, LW."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ??? I was replying to MGZ...*and* I was speaking about myself and no one else, Hill J.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      HillJ Apr 11, 2013 12:10 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I guess my eyes skimmed replies from MGZ and almond tree.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Besides, the question remains what did the writer of the article MelMM linked actually mean. Was the use of deploy intentional or not?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What my unpopular comments are really saying is, it doesn't matter to me. Word usage gets messed around with all the time, in every form of print.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 12:20 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It seems it was. I wrote Susan Chang, and she replied saying it was a metaphorical use. She said she "specifically wanted to use "deploy" to invoke the metaphor of a general drawing upon his/her resources towards a particular end. I use "deploy" all the time in that way - and I don't just employ it. You might go so far as to say I "deploy" it."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        :-/ I guess she and I will have to disagree on this particular use of a metaphor, as I don't think the visual works as well as she would hope.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BUT...that's just my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HillJ Apr 11, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you for finding out! Because I can't imagine the paper just let that go w/out a proofread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 12:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm afraid a lot of stuff gets by a decent editing process at the Boston Globe. I understand when something is an AP story - they just take it and put it up on their site as-is, so the editing would have had to have occurred at the AP's level. But articles written directly for the Globe can also be poorly constructed with grammatical and spelling errors.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              HillJ Apr 11, 2013 12:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ..and the NYT's and the WPost....happens everywhere. Yet, the writer said the use of deploy was intentional Linda. So, deploy was not an error.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I hear ya that it bothers you and others weighing in. I just don't have the same issue with word usage anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 12:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But I think of a metaphor as being something like "The teacher planted the seeds of wisdom." or "The computer in the classroom was a dinosaur."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There is a visual carryover in your mind's eye. I don't see it in her sentence - she just swapped out two verbs. :::shrugs:::

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For me, I guess it goes back to having English & speech teachers for my two grandmothers and my mother as well as attending Katharine Gibbs back in the late 1970s. English and grammar has been drilled into my my whole life, so it grates like nails on a chalkboard (simile!) when I see writing such as this. My cross to bear, I guess. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindaWhit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  HillJ Apr 11, 2013 01:01 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  A turn of phrase is not necessarily a metaphor...but who knows what lurks in the mind of a wordsmith....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  really old story, the NYTimes wrote an article/pictorial on my work a gazillion years ago and I didn't want anyone to bother reading it. Why? I caught several dozens errors and this article was the result of an interview conducted in person.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One silly example that we still laugh about. My gf framed the article and I hung it in the attic before closing the book on the whole ridiculous thing...years ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Life's just that way. I'm beginning to get too old to give a shit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MGZ Apr 11, 2013 01:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hell, Hill, I'da let you respond firts, but I couldn't resist such a twisted mess of irony and pun.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        HillJ Apr 11, 2013 01:47 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Np, MGZ. It's all good! Keep em coming.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LindaWhit Apr 11, 2013 10:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, it should be "employed" or "used." Unfortunately, the Boston Globe is famous for lousy editing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kris in Beijing Apr 11, 2013 11:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          EMPLOYED!!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've been scouring the recesses of my personal mental dictionary, and looking at adjacent keys on the keyboard to see if I could find a possible, unintentional yet similar word for deployed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When I misspell "employed" in Word, the first suggestion from Spell Check is "deployed."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Kris in Beijing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jay F Apr 11, 2013 11:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <When I misspell "employed" in Word, the first suggestion from Spell Check is "deployed.">

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, there you have it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            paulj Apr 11, 2013 12:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The use of 'deployed' makes me think of visual effects, plating more than taste. I believe 'deploy' comes from a French word that means 'unfold'.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: MelMM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Candy Apr 11, 2013 02:30 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, employed or used would be a better choice. Deployed seems like they are being sent to the dish. Maybe thrown from the Garde Manger across the kitchen to the fry cook?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. p
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plasticanimal Apr 11, 2013 11:02 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm willing to forgive people who don't wish to say they intend to bone a chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. PotatoHouse Apr 11, 2013 05:59 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                somebody may have brought this up already, I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm going to say it anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                candy, do you honestly believe that language does not evolve, especially the language of cooking?believe me, we do not use the exact same terms and phrases that cooks used in the 1920s. also there are regional differences in the language of cooking just as there are in every language in the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                34 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  kattyeyes Apr 11, 2013 06:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Evolution is one thing. To think we will next "commandeer" the ingredients to make said recipe is a different level of ridiculousness.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GH1618 Apr 11, 2013 06:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'll offer my answer, while we await Candy's. Language does evolve, for several reasons. Sometimes, changes are constructive because they adapt the language to new circumstances. Other times they are pretentious or merely lazy, hence pointless. Candy gave examples of the latter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      MGZ Apr 12, 2013 11:54 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There is a very thin line between lazy and efficient when it comes to language. I mean, ain't it easier to "maam" than "madam"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I spose, at bottom, I would pose to all the really smart, educated folks chiming in on this (clearly non-food) topic, the questions: "Why do you really care?" and "Why should spoken and written English not continue on their collision course to merge into a single language?"*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Face it, we've been heading towards that point of fusion for quite some time. The excessive years I spent in classrooms had me believin' that the rules were to be adhered to because they were the rules. Truth is, those rules were promulgated by folks who couldn't figure out a way to keep up or relate so they tried to use 'em to create a distinction between themselves and those deemed to be "lesser".**

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Finally, in all honesty, I hate when people use apostrophes to make a word plural.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *If you think hard on it, you'll realize that technology is going to make it happen faster.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      **Not to mention some of the other rules that the prescriptivists of centuries past felt necessary to enact and enforce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 12, 2013 12:11 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wonder what's the history of apostrophes. Why restrict it to possessive and contraction? Why plurals?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm most tempted to use it for plurals of things aren't quite words, for example numbers (70s v 70's), and letters (as v a's).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        How many is (i's, "i"s ? ) are there in Mississippi?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          MGZ Apr 12, 2013 12:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Generally speaking, lots of people add the apostrophe in an inefficient way when they "deploy" one as an extra, unnecessary character, i.e. a menu that reads, "Our Special's". But, more importantly, I hope, that for the sake of this greater discussion, you got the irony and subtly with which I offered the comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            GH1618 Apr 12, 2013 12:35 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Your understanding is correct. An apostrophe can be used to denote a plural, but only in a few restricted cases. Mind your p's and q's, for example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              John E. Apr 13, 2013 03:25 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are two ises in Mississippi.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              GH1618 Apr 12, 2013 12:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The laziness is not in the pronunciation, it's in the unwillingness to learn the difference between (for example) "affect" and "effect," or the proper usage of (for example) "comprise." When someone uses "comprise" incorrectly, they are being both pretentious (because it sounds fancier) and lazy (because they've never looked it up).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                MGZ Apr 12, 2013 12:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The point I'm making really isn't related to pronunciation so much as why there should be a difference between pronunciation and spelling. I mean, context makes clear whether someone means "affect" or "effect" - why have two words? Since the spoken language predated the written one, I'd find it quite logical to believe they started out as one and the same.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And, yes, the malopropic usage of "comprise" that you note has been deemed funny for many, many years for exactlythe same reasons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: GH1618
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  John E. Apr 13, 2013 03:27 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am terrible at comprising. I never want to give in to anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Bob Martinez Apr 12, 2013 12:52 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I spose, at bottom, I would pose to all the really smart, educated folks chiming in on this (clearly non-food) topic, the questions: "Why do you really care?" "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  English is the language of Shakespeare, Churchill, and Lincoln. When it gets butchered by a stupid hack it's like watching a vandal defacing something beautiful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When that happens you don't turn and shrug, you speak up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bob Martinez
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    MGZ Apr 12, 2013 01:02 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It was the language of Chaucer as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      paulj Apr 12, 2013 02:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      'Wepyng and waylyng, care and oother sorwe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I knowe ynogh, on even and a-morwe,'
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Quod the Marchant, 'and so doon oother mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That wedded been.'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Spell checker flagged 10 words in this quote.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MGZ Apr 13, 2013 06:19 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for takin' the time to illustrate my point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paulj Apr 13, 2013 07:26 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I couldn't offhand find a reliable audio recording of the same passage. There were some major changes in the spoken language shortly after his time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MGZ Apr 13, 2013 07:44 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the last of the remaining original recordings were destroyed during the Glorious Revolution.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Bob Martinez
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ItalianNana Apr 12, 2013 01:03 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      +1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Not to mention that words are needed to communicate precisely and even to "think." A limited vocabulary is a liability.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: ItalianNana
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MGZ Apr 12, 2013 01:12 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nobody's talking about a limited vocabulary, just the notion that prescriptivist conceptions of language are kinda silly. By way of analogy appropriate to this Site, I submit that objecting to the notion that one must stick in a formulaic to the rules of language is akin to objecting to the notion that one cannot mix cuisine traditions. Think about what happens when one "breaks the rules" of food properly. This is not to say that all rule breakers are "exceptible", but sometimes they make things better. But, whatta I know, I'm good with cheese and seafood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bob Martinez Apr 12, 2013 01:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, you've tasked me with with a reboot of my thought processes. I'll effort that this weekend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Bob Martinez
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MGZ Apr 13, 2013 06:34 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'll make it simple: Shakespeare was the stupid hack butcherin' Chaucer's language.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ItalianNana Apr 12, 2013 08:15 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was replying to...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "I spose, at bottom, I would pose to all the really smart, educated folks chiming in on this (clearly non-food) topic, the questions: "Why do you really care?" and "Why should spoken and written English not continue on their collision course to merge into a single language?"*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ItalianNana
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MGZ Apr 13, 2013 06:30 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So to be clear, you care because other people's limited vocabularies are a liability to them? Does that mean that anyone else who has a lesser vocabulary than mine is therefore beneath me? Should I pity them? Ignore them on a Site like this? Wouldn't it be better for folks like me to try and find some way to communicate as equals?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Moreover, let me note that words are not essential to thought. The latter predates the former by millennia. Words are essential to communicating ideas. Children have thoughts before they know words, don't they?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kris in Beijing Apr 14, 2013 07:04 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BabySign is [cough] EMployed specifically because little ones really want to communicate but they don't have the vocabulary.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My sister was deeply saddened when her youngest stopped signing as her oral lexicon increased.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: MGZ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Midlife Apr 12, 2013 01:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>"Why should spoken and written English not continue on their collision course to merge into a single language?"<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh, I don't know. Maybe because that path might lead to a point where we find that we understand even LESS of what other people really mean when they speak........ or write?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No question that some of the discomfort felt may come from some OCD tendencies or from 'class' distinction, but there would logically seem to be a point at which changes in wording can create a distortion of intended meaning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. re: PotatoHouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Candy Apr 12, 2013 10:49 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course language evolves, it has to. I just have a problem with incorrect usage and poor grammar. I find it especially annoying when it involves instructions where one may be come confused by what the writer intends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paulj Apr 12, 2013 11:24 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I make a distinction between incorrect usage, and confusing usage. One focuses on following rules, the other, on effective communication.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Rules can be a refuge for the unimaginative writer. "If I stick to accepted usage, no one is going to jump me." But a good imaginative writer can stretch usage, using words in new contexts. But to do it well the writer has to be aware of all the connotations and images that a word carries with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For example, in the Dunlop review, the use of 'deploy' brought to mind (to me) plating, sprinkling chopped green onions over the dish in a visually effective manner. If the reviewer was thinking more of flavor, then the use of 'deploy' failed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          John E. Apr 13, 2013 03:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A while back I decided to drop at least one malaprop into as many posts as I could. I think I did it once or twice before I realized that people might not understand my humor and just think I'm an idiot. Now they might think that anyway, but not because of my misuse of words, at least intentionally anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: John E.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            globocity Apr 14, 2013 08:33 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If a malaprop is dropped but nobody gets it, does it make a noise?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: globocity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kris in Beijing Apr 14, 2013 07:05 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm sure they bounce.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Candy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          HillJ Apr 12, 2013 01:48 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And I can appreciate your guidance to assist the cookbook author.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I suppose my mind wonders to the day the word uber came across my desk used by a writer; used it in a sentence and the world stood still for 5 seconds trying to figure out what this word means to the piece, how to use it properly in a sentence, should we use it....uber. Who found this German word, slang word, new age word...days were spent on the word....meetings to discuss the choice...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          uber. at the time quite radical..today, over used.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            linguafood Apr 12, 2013 02:18 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Über" just means over(ly), depending on context.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Übermächtig, e.g., means overly powerful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              HillJ Apr 12, 2013 02:23 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, tell that to a room full of suits who had never laid eyes on the word before...and now believe they invented it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                linguafood Apr 12, 2013 02:33 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It must be so nice to be that ignorant *and* confident at the same time '-D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  HillJ Apr 12, 2013 02:36 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  all the way to the bank, my friend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ItalianNana Apr 12, 2013 01:16 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Back to the OP which didn't imply an actual mistake or misuse of the word, but rather a contrived, silly and confusing choice. I agree. This particular instance strikes me as an attempt to sound a certain way rather than inform the reader.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: ItalianNana
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          MGZ Apr 13, 2013 06:41 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Creative uses of words and communication are only "silly" when you look at them from some predetermined point of view. As the old transcendentalist, grandfather of existentialism, noted, "All life is an experiment."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. DuffyH Apr 13, 2013 06:50 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I certainly agree with your dislike of "deploy", but would remind you that "debone" has been around since 1944, per Mirriam-Webster. Hardly cute speak.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Kris in Beijing Apr 14, 2013 07:13 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The debonair millennial
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            deboned each vicennial
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a fish with a flavour profile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that his grandpa would have thought to be vile.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MagicMarkR Apr 15, 2013 12:31 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sort of future-speak. At least the author did not tell you to `Make it so!'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Show Hidden Posts