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Question of Almond Butter/ Almond Flour over Pesach

l
lilylillers Mar 19, 2013 09:16 PM

I have never used / tried either but would like to try a recipe. Can Ashkenazi eat this on Pesach?

  1. a
    avitrek Mar 19, 2013 09:18 PM

    AYLR

    22 Replies
    1. re: avitrek
      queenscook Mar 19, 2013 10:07 PM

      Have to disagree with avitrek re: asking a Rav. Almond butter is available KFP with widely accepted Ashkenazi hechsherim; a Rav doesn't have to be consulted for every little thing when the question isn't controversial at all. (This year I have seen at least two or three different brands. Cashew butter as well.) And I don't know if almond flour is available commercially with a hechsher (KFP, that is), but you can certainly grind your own almonds to make almond flour.

      1. re: queenscook
        l
        lilylillers Mar 19, 2013 10:29 PM

        Thanks for your reply. Have you used any of these products and had success?

        1. re: lilylillers
          queenscook Mar 20, 2013 05:12 AM

          Last year I made cookies with almond butter which were OK. This year I'm making an almond butter pie. If you want, I'll post links to recipes later. (Running to work now.)

          1. re: queenscook
            l
            lilylillers Mar 20, 2013 07:19 AM

            Thanks! That would be great!

            1. re: lilylillers
              queenscook Mar 20, 2013 01:46 PM

              I think this was the recipe I used for the almond butter cookies:
              http://www.couldntbeparve.com/2009/03/flourless-almond-thumbprint-cookies/

              The pie I plan to make is:
              http://www.joyofkosher.com/recipes/al...

              I do plan a few changes, though. Because of some very strong negative feelings around here (read: husband), I will not be putting it in a macaroon crust. Instead, I will most likely make it in a springform pan, with a crust made of something else. I'm thinking cookie crumbs or chocolate cake or brownie or something like that. In additionally, I'm thinking of doing a two-layer thing, using the almond butter-cream cheese mix as one layer, and chocolate mousse as the other. And finally, the jelly is unlikely to make an appearance on my version, though I haven't ruled it out entirely. All things being equal, I'd go with the cherry preserves, but I have about four or five jars of apricot preserves I bought really cheaply after last Pesach, while the cherry preserves are at least $5.00 a jar, so I might go with apricot this time.

              1. re: queenscook
                l
                lilylillers Mar 20, 2013 03:01 PM

                Thanks so much for taking the time to post these recipes. I often go to couldntbeparve, and often make changes to Geller's recipes on her site...lol. Love your idea about changing the pie crust to a cake or brownie and the two layer idea. I think my daughter will love the almond butter cookies, and this would be a good foundation to experiment with the almond butter. Thanks again!

                1. re: queenscook
                  k
                  kosherGlutenFree Mar 20, 2013 03:04 PM

                  while looking for recipes I saw several that used crushed lady/baby fingers for things like a crust (it was to replace a graham cracker crust) and in a topping for fruit. I cannot give you a link since I did not save the recipes.

                  After looking at the pie recipe I personally would use something like crushed crinkle cookies that were allowed to dry out prior to crushing them. I like the idea of it being chocolate.

                  1. re: queenscook
                    c
                    cheesecake17 Mar 21, 2013 10:46 AM

                    If you decide to go ahead with cherry jam, it's available for less than $5. May take some seeking out...but I bought a jar at Moishas for $2.29.

                    1. re: cheesecake17
                      queenscook Mar 21, 2013 01:11 PM

                      At this point, my time is worth more than the extra money the cherry jam would cost. I have no time to seek out anything; if I decide to go with cherry jam, I'll overpay. Also, just curious . . . what size jar was $2.29? The size I saw was 18 oz.

                      1. re: queenscook
                        c
                        cheesecake17 Mar 21, 2013 02:45 PM

                        It was a small jar, definitely not 18oz. I only bought a small one since we rarely eat jam other than on Passover.

                        If you see Hero brand, they're usually pretty well priced.

                    2. re: queenscook
                      queenscook Apr 7, 2013 12:06 AM

                      Wanted to report back on the almond butter pie. In the long run, I made it in a springform pan with no crust at all. I put the almond butter/cream cheese layer down first, froze it for a bit, added an apricot preserves layer, and covered that with chocolate mousse. I left it in the freezer until serving, but it was really too firm to cut easily, so for the remaining meals, I made sure to take it out of the freezer 15-20 minutes prior to dessert. My husband raved about it, saying it was his favorite new recipe this yom tov. I, on the other hand, liked, but did not love, it. I thought the almond butter/cream cheese layer was really too hard (solid, firm), even after being left out to soften up. I will definitely be making it again, but I plan to lighten it up (texturally, not in terms of fat or calories unfortunately) by making it more like a peanut butter mousse I have made from a really old Bon Appetit recipe (October 1990). It's a similar recipe--peanut butter blended with cream cheese--but it also calls for two egg whites to be whipped with some confectioners' sugar, and then blending that with the peanut butter mixture. (It does mean raw eggs in the mixture, but that does not scare us around here!) And next time, I think I will do the cherry preserves. The apricot was OK, but I think the cherry will really be tasty.

              2. re: queenscook
                a
                avitrek Mar 20, 2013 05:51 AM

                I agree with you in general. My point in this case was not really to say you need to ask a rabbi, but to say this is a board to discuss what to do with almond flour, or where you can find KP almond butter/flour, not a board to ask if it's permitted to eat almond butter/flour.

                1. re: avitrek
                  l
                  lilylillers Mar 20, 2013 07:22 AM

                  Sorry about that. I just thought someone here might know off hand, that is Ashkenazi and has used it during Pesach. Would love additional recipes to use the almond butter up, though.

                  1. re: lilylillers
                    d
                    DeisCane Mar 20, 2013 07:49 AM

                    Almonds are not kitniyos.

                  2. re: avitrek
                    queenscook Mar 20, 2013 01:31 PM

                    If someone is asking about a controversial hashgacha, I'd buy the "ask your Rav" line, but this was a question that isn't controversial at all. It's like if someone didn't know carrots were allowed on Pesach and asked about them. It would be silly to say that this is not the place to ask if carrots are KFP. Same here . . . I think it is, in fact, appropriate on the Kosher board to tell someone something is Kosher/allowed, when there's no controversy whatsoever about it. It's just helping with info they didn't have, which, it seems to me, is absolutely allowed.

                    1. re: queenscook
                      z
                      zsero Mar 20, 2013 06:02 PM

                      Belzers don't eat carrots on Pesach. But you're right, it's not controversial that they're KFP; Belzers don't claim they're chometz.

                      1. re: zsero
                        e
                        EmpireState Mar 21, 2013 04:08 PM

                        Off topic, but why don't Belzers eat carrots on Pesach?

                        1. re: EmpireState
                          z
                          zsero Mar 21, 2013 04:38 PM

                          I really don't know, and it's possible that even they don't know. Most people who don't eat garlic on Pesach have no idea why.

                          1. re: zsero
                            s
                            SoCal Mother Mar 22, 2013 10:29 AM

                            My sister's husband will not eat garlic on Pesach because it was grown with something chometz back in the Old Country. Makes buying takeout difficult. I was surprised until I remembered my grandmother (a"h) asking me once why I was buying garlic for Pesach, since "it's not Pesachdik."

                            1. re: SoCal Mother
                              z
                              zsero Mar 22, 2013 12:26 PM

                              As I said, even those who keep this generally don't know why. I have a theory based on some information a friend came across by accident, in a historical account of matzah baking. It appears that there is some sort of growth or malformation on wheat, which renders it chametz, and which is known in Yiddish as "knobblach", presumably for its resemblance to garlic cloves. The wheat had to be inspected for knobblach and the affected grains removed. Given this information it becomes obvious how actual knobble would be tarred with the same brush and be avoided on Pesach, just as other foods are avoided because of their name (e.g. chickpeas, among those who otherwise eat kitniyot)

                          2. re: EmpireState
                            d
                            DeisCane Mar 22, 2013 07:47 AM

                            I seem to remember once hearing that there's an issue with things grown in the ground. But that would rule out potatoes as well, so maybe not.

                  3. re: avitrek
                    l
                    lilylillers Mar 19, 2013 10:28 PM

                    TY for replying

                  4. z
                    zsero Mar 20, 2013 09:05 AM

                    Almonds are tree fruit, and therefore can't be kitniyos

                    16 Replies
                    1. re: zsero
                      NE_Wombat Mar 20, 2013 03:21 PM

                      Yet the exact opposite ruling is expressed in the "Almond Milk KFP" thread. Not saying you're wrong, just an observation.

                      1. re: NE_Wombat
                        queenscook Mar 20, 2013 04:04 PM

                        I see nothing in that thread that implies almonds could be kitniot. Which response are you referring to?

                        1. re: NE_Wombat
                          z
                          zsero Mar 20, 2013 06:05 PM

                          I don't think anybody in that thread suggested that almonds could be kitniyos.

                          1. re: zsero
                            queenscook Mar 20, 2013 06:09 PM

                            I know . . . so I don't understand what NE_Wombat meant by "the exact opposite ruling is expressed" in that thread, in direct
                            response to your saying that almonds are tree fruits and can't be kitniot. What ruling is s/he referring to?

                            1. re: queenscook
                              z
                              zsero Mar 20, 2013 06:12 PM

                              Um, please pay attention to which comment a response is replying to.

                              1. re: zsero
                                queenscook Mar 20, 2013 06:20 PM

                                Um, I am. NE_Wombat's reply clearly says "Yet the exact opposite ruling is expressed in the "Almond Milk KFP" thread. Not saying you're wrong, just an observation." and the RE: is to zsero, specifically your comment directly above it, saying: Almonds are tree fruit, and therefore can't be kitniyos. On my screen, they are replies #1 and #2. Does it appear differently on yours?

                                1. re: queenscook
                                  z
                                  zsero Mar 21, 2013 05:58 AM

                                  No, it appears the same. And then both you and I replied to NE_Wombat, but then you replied to me as if my reply had been addressed to you rather than to him.

                            2. re: zsero
                              NE_Wombat Mar 21, 2013 09:07 AM

                              " shoelace Mar 18, 2013 12:53 PM

                              just tweeted crc, they said point blank, unless youre someone who eats kitniyot, no almond milk"

                              1. re: NE_Wombat
                                d
                                DeisCane Mar 21, 2013 10:15 AM

                                It makes no sense unless all almond milk has some ingredient I'm not aware of. Here are the unsweetened ingredients for Almond Breeze:

                                almondmilk (filtered water, almonds), calcium carbonate, tapioca starch, sea salt, potassium citrate, carrageenan, sunflower lecithin, natural flavor, vitamin a palmitate, vitamin d2 and d-alpha-tocopherol (natural vitamin e).

                                None of those ingredients is kitniyos, to the best of my knowledge.

                                1. re: DeisCane
                                  NE_Wombat Mar 21, 2013 10:19 AM

                                  I didn't say it was correct, I just said it was there.

                                  1. re: NE_Wombat
                                    d
                                    DeisCane Mar 21, 2013 10:38 AM

                                    Yep, I wasn't accusing you of anything.

                                  2. re: DeisCane
                                    almond tree Mar 21, 2013 10:40 AM

                                    Sunflower is considered kitniyos.

                                    1. re: almond tree
                                      d
                                      DeisCane Mar 21, 2013 10:44 AM

                                      Oh well, that makes (some) sense. I don't think I ever thought of eating anything sunflower related during Pesach so I never realized that. Not sure why though. :-)

                                      1. re: almond tree
                                        z
                                        zsero Mar 21, 2013 03:52 PM

                                        Yes, there's a long discussion in (if I recall correctly) the Marcheshet about the status of sunflowers. His conclusion is that they are the species known to Chazal as "shoshanat hamelech", and are classified as kitniyos.

                                    2. re: NE_Wombat
                                      z
                                      zsero Mar 22, 2013 03:49 PM

                                      Could you please post the response? I don't see it on their twitter feed.

                                      1. re: zsero
                                        NE_Wombat Mar 22, 2013 05:05 PM

                                        I don't know any more than what's copied from shoelace's post from the other thread. Sorry.

                              2. m
                                Mashgiach Mar 20, 2013 09:23 PM

                                Straight almond butter would be kosher for Passover, but you would want to know what else was ground on that equipment. The grinding causes heat (friction) & can reach over 120F which has its own set of "issues". Some processors have added dairy chocolate chips to some nut butters making everything D or DE. Almond flour by itself would also be ok, but if ground or packaged in an area that does other flours you may have cross contamination with chometz. So, in theory you are totally correct, just the application needs clarification.

                                Almond milk - see http://oukosher.org/passover/guidelin...

                                1. k
                                  kosherfoodie1226 Mar 22, 2013 03:20 PM

                                  liebers has almond milk and butter for pesach, don't know about almond flour

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