Is Christopher Kimball the new Alton Brown???????

[jarona]

Alright. I have been watching ATK for the past week or so after not watching it for a while. I've noticed that at the start of the show he has this scientific thing going on----almost as though he studied Alton Brown's Good Eats and tried to dupe a portion of it. Is it me? Am I so quick to find fault with Kimball that I'm grasping at straws? I loved Good Eats and IMHO, Brown did that scientific stuff much better.
I don't like copycats. Michael Kors has copied LV's Neverfull bag and a ton of other designer's goods. Dare I compare Kimball to Kors?

[drewkal]

AB and CK? Good Eats gets the vote by a landslide, as an entertaining presentation of food prep and science. CK and his crew is great at presenting recipies and techniques, their magazines are very educational, and work very well--I have all the Cook's Illustrated, ATK, books, and Cook's Country on my bookcase, also with all the DVD's. BUT, I have Alton's books more handy, (ie: one is bathroom reading!) and an equal or larger amount of his programs, recorded and DVD'd.
Alton is just a better package for me, although I could see my sister liking CK's presentation better. Funny, I use Alton's Turkey recipe for Thanksgiving, and CK's for a lot of the sides. Ive learned a lot from both.

I think if you put them head to head alone on Chopped, or Iron Chef, Alton would beat the shorts off Christopher. It would be a great episode, but like Fringe, they exist in different, but really similar universes.
I'm sure Alton could call in a remarkable staff of sous chef's vs Christopher to help him, maybe it could be set up as a pool of helpers that they could get randomly. That way Alton wouldn't get Mario, Morimoto, Flay and whoever to help him, and CK wouldn't be stuck with his Vermont staff. But, it would be interesting if it were randomized, like they had to pick a chef like you picked a baseball player on your team as a kid. Andrew Zimmern last! (Sorry Andrew, my opinion of you as a chef is less than Guy Fierie's, give me that much cash and I will put anything in my mouth!) your'e not a chef!!

[JonParker]

Christopher Kimball is the new Charlie Brown.

[Gloriaa]

CK plays dumb on tv, like he has no idea how to cook so would be very interesting to see if he can. He seems very demanding so my guess would be that his staff are very good at what they do. I'm sure it is a very covetable job....

[Jay F]

<CK wouldn't be stuck with his Vermont staff.>

Don't they shoot the shows in Brookline, MA?

[nasirshakouri]

New Alton Brown? Isn't ATK old school? I always thought ATK had the scientific thing going on. Comparing Kimball to Kors is just plain harsh. Nasir Shakouri, out.

[ellaf]

I'm not a bif fan of either, but I respect Christopher Kimball and his TV show because he is on PBS. I much prefer PBS over the commercial cooking channel. Also, Christopher Kimball, whether you like him or not, is not shilling for anybody, his magazine has no ads. Alton Brown is maybe out to be a good cook and definitely out to rake in as much dough as he can. If I had to pick a copy cat it would be Alton.

[sr44]

I was really thunderstruck by his Fannie's Last Supper. First, he went to extraordinary lengths to replicate the original conditions. Second, he knew a lot about how food transactions occurred in the late 19th century. So he's no dummy, but I get tired of his attempts to sell the same recipe many times.

[dave_c]

I've gone to Chris Kimball's presentation - The Science of Good Cooking. The impression I had was that he really doesn't know that much, but does he really need to when he has a staff of experts. The presentation was just a book selling gimmick.

[paulj]

I happen to have a 1986 issue of Cooks, Kimball's earlier magazine (with advertising). It has a regular section titled 'The Science of Cooking'. In that issue it is about knife sharpening.

[madeliner]

almost all ATK, cooks country recipes work wonderfully for me and I have tried quite a few-they make great recipes that you can always tweak

Alton's never have-I tried his hamburger fresh ground from steak bits, thinking he was the 'thing' a long time ago and it was awful, never tried anything of his again-I also find his show insufferable

atk isn't a barrel of laughs either but they do make things that work

[davis_sq_pro]

I've had good luck with both -- definitely with modifications in both cases. Agreed about the AB hamburger ground in the food processor. Tried it twice and it was pretty nasty.

However, the vast majority of the other recipes from that show that I tried over the years worked very well. I can definitely credit that show with improving my cooking skills in various areas.

The ATK/Cook's recipes are probably slightly better tested but I generally find them to be woefully underseasoned. 1/4 tsp of salt for an entire recipe to serve 8 people, etc.

[The Professor]

wow...what exactly was so 'nasty' about hamburger made from meat chopped in a processor?
I've done it that way for years (long before either TK or GE hit the airwaves) and the results have always been great...a coarser, more satisfying texture and much juicier compared to meat smooshed in a grinder. And it literally takes less than 10 seconds to chop enough for 4 burgers!

[davis_sq_pro]

Your "coarse" is my "grainy." And going further results in gummy.

I didn't find it to be satisfying in the least. Glad to hear that it works for you.

[Tom34]

Have had both & like both if properly cooked. I have found though that most folks I know prefer ground which is likely because its what their used to. .

[madeliner]

I prefer kimball to brown-he has standards in a way

his shows turn out good food most of the time

btw I like the new initial icons!

[sunshine842]

and that is why having variations on a theme is a good thing.

[Tom34]

I don't care who copies who, I will support anybody who actually has an educational cooking show where I can walk away knowing something I didn't know before the show.

[ttoommyy]

ATK predates Good Eats and has always had a scientific element to it.

[mpjmph]

Good Eats was on the air for 18 months before ATK. Cook's Illustrated was around for years before, Good Eats still predates the ATK show.

[ttoommyy]

Yes. I agree. I misspoke. I meant Cook's Illustrated, which has been around in one form or another since 1980. I find ATK and CI synonymous these days. I still stand by the fact that Kimball was exploring the science of cooking in CI before Good Eats was on the air.

[ItalianNana]

Whoa,

Cooks Illustrated, over the last two decades, has taken me from a wretched cook who dreaded dinner prep to a foodie. The magazine (no ads allowed) and its editor, Chris Kimball, as well as the many cookbook published by ATK are successful for a reason. They will take a recipe, deconstruct it, make 20 versions, subject it to taste tastes and then tell you why they recommend the final one. Still think searing meat "seals in juices?" Chris and company will tell you why this is not so. Wonder why your meringue weeps, your soufflé flops or your brisket is tough? They know. And the nerds among us need to know.

Kimball's well written, sometimes humorous, often poignant editorials are a Norman Rockwellesque slice of rural New England life...where hard working folks with traditional values make great neighbors.

Cooking IS both art and science. Long live Chris!

[kattyeyes]

Long live YOU, ItalianNana! I ♥ this post! ! I've learned a great deal from Chris and company, too. Now, do you know how to make scacciata and can you teach me? ;)
XO,
Katty

[ItalianNana]

Ahhhh Katty you made my day. Thank you.

Now, regarding scacciata...I wish I could oblige you. The Sicilians are great cooks, no? My mother-in-law taught me to make terrific Calzones which are sort of a version, or maybe the other way around.

I think the dough would be similar but the filling for scacciata would have more veggies and probably potato. Where have you eaten it? Here on the west coast, especially in my Italian/Portuguese/Basque peopled valley, it's not a common dish.

Best of luck and PLEASE share if you are experimenting. :-D

[kattyeyes]

Straight back at you, Nana! I'm from Middletown, CT, sister city of Melilli, so we are surrounded by much culinary greatness. I never realized it was a "my town" kinda thing till no one knew what I was talking about outside my area. :) I think I can figure out the insides (my favorite is broccoli and sausage). Just need to find a good dough. My Poppy was 100% Italian, but I never had an Italian nonna (I had Nanny--Irish/English), so I am always on the lookout for a nonna I can "borrow." :)

Meanwhile, I will check recipes from some of my favorite Sicilians (Nick Stellino, for one). And who knows, maybe one day Chris and the Cook's Country/ATK crew will attack scacciata. Stranger things have happened. Heck, they recently featured steamed cheeseburgers, another local specialty. You take care.

[davis_sq_pro]

No. Kimball has the personality of a piece of toast with too much maillard reaction.

[sunshine842]

*like*

[paulj]

ATK probably has been doing more of the graphical and animated explanations in recent years. But they have always been testing recipes, which, to do well, requires understanding the science behind cooking.

Much of the science is presented by Guy Crosby
http://www.cookingscienceguy.com/pages/
He also teaches a food science course at Harvard, and has real science credentials. He has also written ATK's The Science of Good Cooking book.

Alton is a good TV producer, but for food science he relies on the likes of Harold McGee and Shirley Corriher. Incidentally , McGee's degrees are in English, albeit his BS was from the best science school in the country ( :) ).

[jarona]

Dayummm! I stand corrected then, I just guess my distain for Kimball (although I do like ATK's other staffers a lot) just makes me grasp at the straws. I honestly thought he copied Brown. Oops! My bad!

[wadejay26]

So now do you dislike Alton Brown?

[jarona]

Oh hell no. I love Alton Brown! I wish he would stop doing those Welch's Grape Juice ads and that Iron Chef stuff and go back to being Mr. Wizard. Oh..and he could stand to gain a few pounds--he looks better when he is less thin!
AB is entertaining for me...he never came across as taking himself too seriously on G.E. Kimball seems to take himself too seriously!

[paulj]

seriously?

http://christopherkimball.wordpress.c...
The many costumes of Chris Kimball

[sunshine842]

but he looks just as dour and unhappy in each of those costumes as he does in his regular bow tie.

Yes, Kimball's been doing the science part for years and years, but Brown manages to laugh at himself on the way by.

[kattyeyes]

Hmm, Chris never strikes me as dour or unhappy! And he laughs at himself plenty on Cook's Country--both in the outtakes and on the show itself. He makes ME laugh, too.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/871218

[sunshine842]

to each their own - he makes my teeth itch.

[jarona]

Yeah. He doesn't have that look of a fun guy--even if he IS in costume. You know how you can just tell if a person has a great sense of humor or not when you meet them? Kimball just comes across as someone not humorous--and even with the costumes--he just seems to take himself very seriously. I dunno.He's a N.E. Prep schooler--not that there's anything wrong with that--but he just has this air of snootiness. I still watch the show though b/c I've gotten some decent and foolproof recipes from him though.

[linus]

i don't find him snooty in the slightest and think he has a rather dry sense of humor i enjoy.

[ItalianNana]

I'm with you, Linus. My latest issue of Cooks Illustrated just arrived and Kimball's editorial was about rabbit hunting in a Ford pick-up (up behind Mike Lourie's dairy barn) right after a late Dec snowfall. It captured perfectly his sense of joy in the outdoors, the natural rhythm of rural life and appreciation of simple things. This is a man who has a wood stove and chops his own wood!

Not the lifestyle of your typical snooty TV celebrity.

[sandylc]

The man drives a Maserati. The folksy thing might be a hobby, but it isn't his entire life.

[jarona]

Touche!

[kattyeyes]

+1 to you, linus and ItalianNana as well.

[wyogal]

That's because AB is an entertainer, that happened to be on a food show.
Whereas, Kimball is about the food.

[sunshine842]

er, no. AB started out as a cinematographer and director (behind the camera) and trained (somewhat ironically for this discussion) at the New England Culinary Institute in Vermont.

He also won a Peabody award for broadcast excellence, and has published a half-dozen books, one of which won the coveted James Beard award.

Not a fluff entertainer. He knows his way around a kitchen as well as many other pros.

[wyogal]

Yes, but, I feel that his focus has been entertainment, which, gee whiz, includes jobs such as cinematography and directing.
Anyone can go to cooking school.
Just because I said he's an entertainer, doesn't mean I said "fluff." Especially with the JB award.
IMO, he wanted more entertaining cooking shows.

[sunshine842]

but that's just it...he's not an entertainer who just happened to be on a food show, which makes it sound like the whole thing was just an accident, and he really doesn't know his elbow from his ear when it comes to food.

The whole thing was pretty carefully planned to marry the two areas in which he is highly skilled and make the best of both.

[wyogal]

I am saying that his focus was different. I'm not saying he doesn't know anything.
sheesh.

[Tom34]

I like both but fully understand your point and tend to agree.

[scoopG]

While any James Beard award might be "coveted" to industry insiders - the finalists are self-nominated.

[sunshine842]

but winning is not.

[scoopG]

Like winning a Golden Globe. 60 some categories, 400+ nominees.

[jmckee]

I am SO tired of this knock on AB. AB is very much about the food. He just presents it in an entertaining manner.

Kimball is about the buck rather than the food. And his writing and the tone of his magazine and TV shows are increasingly tiresome.

[wyogal]

It isn't a "knock on AB." It's a perspective, just as yours is of Kimball.
sheesh.

[paulj]

Yes, AB entertains us out the good of his heart. I read that the Good Eats production was a money looser for him. He has had to sell books and make long tiresome speaking tours to make up for those loses.
:(

[ttoommyy]

Oh yes. AB does it all for free. No paycheck. Gratis.

Please. Anyone who is on TV does what they are doing first and foremost for the paycheck. AB and CK alike. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that! They both provide entertainment and education. Let them both make all the $$ they can. I would if I could!

[KailuaGirl]

Interesting articles!

[pedalfaster]

Everything old is new again.

Just go with it. and yes, there is something to be said for making "old" science (and cooking) new again.

[sr44]

He's the old Alton Brown. He's been peddling scientific recipe magic for decades.

[ninrn]

Agreed. ATK was on the air with Kimball well before Good Eats. If anything, Brown copied Kimball and just added a lot of zany and colorfully graphic stuff.

[sr44]

He really seems (Kimball, that is) to think that cooking can be reduced to a formula. There are certainly formulaic elements, but once an element changes, you're toast if you just follow his recipes.

[paulj]

Really? That's not my impression. But then I rarely follow a recipe exactly. I am used to looking for the distinctive features of a recipe. The recipes in their magazine usually go into more detail about the alternatives and why they chose a particular method or ingredient.

Also in the magazine, article authors get their own byline. Kimball may be editor, and have his column, but most of the writing is by members of the ATK staff.

[sr44]

But the recipes in the magazine, although credited to an individual, sound as if they come from the same voice. Now, I suspect that few of the contributors have significant verbal skills, but the precision of the reporting leads me to think someone is standing by with a stopwatch. That's not to say I do the same...

He must be related to Fanny Farmer, from whom my grandmother, the very one with the correct clam chowder and baked bean recipes, took lessons.

[coney with everything]

"He really seems (Kimball, that is) to think that cooking can be reduced to a formula"

well, yeah
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/mag...

[jeanmarieok]

This is a pretty good article. I'm not a fan because of the aggressive marketing, but his journey has been interesting.

[Dee S]

Good Eats premiered in 1999 while ATK showed up in 2001. Cooks Illustrated has been around in print since 1993.

Everyone copies everyone else. There are no original ideas any more. Alton found a way to lighten up a cooking show and it caught on.

I like both shows for different reasons.

[kattyeyes]

:)

[juliemoose]

Cooks Illustrated has actually been around since before 1993. The magazine was around since at least the mid 80's, stopped publication for awhile, and then started publishing again in the 90's, til now. I know this because I was a subscriber.

[mwhitmore]

I think it was called "Cooks Magazine' in the original formulation, when it took advertising.

[madeliner]

:thumbs up:

[steve h.]

You're grasping at straws.