Must I trade my cast iron wok for carbon steel?
I have a cast iron wok. It is not a light Chinese model, but a huge, heavy flat-bottomed model. I chose it in the hopes that its heat-storing capacity would help compensate for the weak output of my gas burners. It certainly helps. If I preheat and am careful not to overload, I can get a passable stir-fry going. My lack of greatness may have as much to do with poor technique as with the wok.
However, I just got Grace Young’s Stir-Frying to the Sky’s Edge, and I'm wildly inspired to up my game. She adapted the recipes for standard home ranges, and strongly recommends using a flat-bottomed carbon steel wok. She has three objections to cast iron woks:
1. They take a long time to heat up. – This does not seem important to me.
2. They cool slowly, increasing the risk of overcooking the food. – More problematic, but I think I could compensate by removing food quickly.
3. They are unwieldy. She likes long-handled wok that can be easily manipulated with one hand. – This could be serious. My wok has short handles and is so heavy that it can really only remain stationary during the cooking process.
What say the experts? I hate to start a new hobby by spending money on more stuff, and I live in a condo with no space to store two woks. But I would get a steel wok if it will really help me to start turning out great Chinese food. Does my cast iron wok put me at a serious disadvantage?
I think you will get various opinions, but in my view, I won't use a heavy cast iron wok, but it is really up to you. For me, it is absolutely important and in fact necessary that I flip the foods in the wok. The reason is that you can never mix your food as fast as you can by flipping. As such, the higher the heat you go, the faster the cooking, and the more important it is to able to toss and manipulate foods. There is a few other reasons too. If you use a spatula to make fried rice, you have a tendency to push the rice together and compress the grains together. When you flip and toss the rice, you keep the rice grain separated and the end reason is much better.
Everyone's situation is different. You may not able to take advantage of a carbon steel wok. I don't know and it is not up to me to judge. All I can say is that I won't.
I'm with Chem on this, but wont be rational or thorough.... Carbon steel woks are the bomb diggity, anything else is just a poser or a wannabe.
Maybe you can nest the two woks together so they don't take up so much room. Well, at least until you give up the cast iron one. <wink and grin> Flipping the food in a wok is one of the joys of wok cooking. And when the oil vaporizes and combusts in a glorious flash to give that delicious wok hei - oh man!
Others here are certainly light-years ahead of me when it comes to wok cooking, but I am moving away from a carbon steel wok to a heavy cast iron wok. Simply put, my hottest burner can't drive a carbon steel wok with any more than a cup or so of food in it. I need something that can build up some heat. Yes I prefer the Pow handle, but matching the wok to the stove seems far more important to me.
I think you're fine with what you have. There are trade-offs, as you have ID'd.
Many people actually prefer two-handled rondeaux or "shaker" pans to one-handled sautes for jumping their food. Can you not manage that with your wok?
I don't see the responsiveness issue being a huge one. If it were, we'd be seeing lots of aluminum and copper woks.
The only issue I see relates to conductivity. Your thick iron wok will tend to get a little hotter higher up the bowl than would a thin steel one. So if you rest the food up there, it would continue to cook more and faster. I don't see this as a big deal, though.
OTOH, carbon steel woks are inexpensive (You already have the $$ one), so perhaps you should get a steel one, see which you prefer, and give us the benefit of what you learn.
"Note that flipping is never done in big restaurant woks"
What?? Maybe I misunderstood your post but obviously the 'never' in your sentence is not correct. I've never worked in a Chinese kitchen but I'd be amazed if any did NOT toss near constantly.
Again, i might've completely misinterpreted your post.
Thanks for the nice video.
My guess is that mwhitmore meant the large woks in the restaurants. Most Chinese restaurants have a two wok system. There is the small one on the size of 14-18" in diameter which is also the similar size as the home cook wok. There is the large one on the size of 24" to 36" (or even larger) which really cannot be replicated in a normal household. The large one is almost never used for tossing foods, but it does require a different cooking style, which a home cook cannot replicate, so I am not entirely sure what is the point here.
In addition, the phrase "stir fry" is a bit too simplistic. There are eight techniques used in a wok. A wok is a much more complicated tool than most people think.
Wikipedia mentions two of the eight techniques, which is chao and bao, and when most people refer to stir fry, it is the chao technique, but people need to be mindful that it is only one of the eight techniques.
"Stir frying is a pair of Chinese cooking techniques for preparing food in a wok: chǎo (炒) and bào (爆). The term stir-fry was introduced into the English language by Buwei Yang Chao, in her book How to Cook and Eat in Chinese, to describe the chǎo technique"
Not directed to mwhitmore, but there are some naive/ignorant comments in this thread.
I mean sauté-style flipping by jerking the wok handle---the big woks on 100k burners are way too big. Of course the cook constantly moves the food with a spatula. Some Asian restaurants also have a small wok with a long wood handle, and they do flip with this. But this is not a big wok. Sorry to be unclear. And it is certainly a good idea to get both and try them. Woks are cheap enough and can be stacked (well-dried!) for storage.
<Of course the cook constantly moves the food with a spatula.>
Usually, not a spatula, but a hoak.
<Some Asian restaurants also have a small wok with a long wood handle>
Usually, it is the other way around. Most Chinese restaurants *must* have this so called smaller wok, and it is this smaller wok which serves as the work horse. This smaller wok is not small in the home cook sense. They are in the size of 14" to 18" diameter. See the video from CarrieWatson. The larger woks you talk about (3 feet) are the optional one. Very small Chinese restaurants will only have the small size wok, and not the large one.
'A hoak'. Thanks Chem, all these years I didn't know the name. Small vs large. Well, I haven't stuck my head in the kitchen of every Chinese restaurant I have eaten in, so you may be right. I still don't think you can get enough heat from a home stove into a carbon-steel wok to stir-fry without steaming, but YMMV.
Some just call it a Chinese ladle.
You are correct that most home stoves do not have enough heat output as restaurants' do, but you can still get it to work by cooking less. Put less food in. Most professional Chinese chefs who I know use carbon steel wok at home, so it is do-able. They don't use thick Lodge cast iron woks.
I think it is a very common mistake that people put too much food into their woks. A wok is a very different tool than a fry pan or saute pan, and require different techniques and a different philosophy. Most people see a big wok and they just think they can put as much food as they can for filling up the wok -- like they do with a fry pan, but that is wrong. The actual cooking surface of a wok is small. Much of the surface is for food maneuvering. When you watch some professional Chinese chefs, you will see that even they (with powerful stoves) rarely put a lot food in their woks (see the above video links from me).
If you need to cook larger volume, you always cook in batches. Again, you will see this even in professional Chinese kitchens. When a Chinese cook get three orders of chow mein, he will cook the orders three times. He does not dump three times the ingredients and cook. Whereas I honestly know a lot of home cooks in US believe "I am cooking for a family of four, so let's just put four times the foods into my wok"
Here is a fun video for you to watch. This guy started as a street cook with one wok, and as demand increased he started to increase the number of woks. It surely works well for practice and for marketing, but there is one thing to be noticed. He didn't buy a bigger and bigger stove and wok. He cook his orders in batches in parallel. There is some real truth to this -- aside from being a funny video.
I have a cast iron wok that I got as a gift (along with Stir-Frying to the Sky's Edge - the gift giver obviously didn't read it to see Grace's warnings about cast iron! ;) ) I also have weak output from my stove, which is rather old.
* The wok doesn't take THAT long to heat up - maybe three minutes.
* I have not experienced any problems with overcooking.
* I actually find the increased conductivity that kaleokahu mentioned to be helpful, especially in the meat phase.
* I obviously mix with the spatula only, as shaking that thing would be rather impossible. I would prefer the long pow handle, but as jljohn said, the wok needs to match the stove.
The only times the weight becomes an issue:
-- when I want to get the meat out and start on the vegetables, I'd rather be able to dump it all onto a plate instead of having to scoop it out with the spatula. It's harder to get all of the yummy juices that way.
-- when I'm transporting it to cook at someone else's house, sometimes I wish it wasn't such a ridiculous mass for me to lug around. Pretty much needs it's own seat in the truck!
All of this said, I have never had the pleasure of using a carbon steel piece. As soon as I become a millionaire and build my dream kitchen, I will be upgrading for sure. But I think as long as you have a weak stove, sticking the the cast iron is best.
Those Grace Young books are just wonderful, and certainly do inspire one to "up one's game" to use your words. Why not just get a 14" pao wok from the Wok Shop and try it out? You don't really have to *replace* your CI wok. I love, love, love my CS wok and have learned to compensate for my lame household gas output and have made better Chinese dishes than I'd ever have dreamed. Go out and get one, season it, and start making some recipes. Like chem said, tossing is really a critical part of stir-frying. I have a CI wok that was gifted to me and it's never been used. One day I'll try it but I can't see any reason to right now. Good luck!
Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback. I am delighted to hear from both the carbon steel partisans and from those who have been using cast iron successfully. In the end, I think Kaleo is right -- this is all about trade-offs. Heat retention vs. mobility, tossability, and fun.
You carbon steel people got me thinking about fun. Whatever its merits, my cast iron wok is not fun. ("Such a ridiculous mass for me to lug around"...Kontxesi, I think we have the same model!)
So I just ordered a flat-bottomed 14" carbon steel pao wok from the Wok Shop. I will give it a whirl and then compare its performance to the cast iron. Give me a couple of months to report back.
I bought a second hand LeCreuset cast iron wok a while back (mainly due to the large hype on the net) and tried it but did not like it at all. The food never came out the same as when using a "normal" wok. So, I sold it recently (and funny enough ended up with a profit). At the moment I am using an All Clad chef's pan for stir fries. The AC is better than cast iron but still not as good as a carbon steel wok.
First of all - "Must" should never, or rarely, come into any cooking conversation. There's no "must".
I've had an imported round-bottom carbon-steel wok that my mom gifted me with back in 1974. Would never be interested in any other. Yes, I do have to use a ring on my coil electric range, but that baby gets WHITE HOT, & I believe I can cook anything in it that anyone else claims they can only do with a flat-bottom on a gas range.
As for a cast-iron wok? Not interested. I really feel the relative lightness of a carbon-steel wok & it's other attributes far outweigh anything a carbon-steel wok has to offer. Lord, I have enough trouble hefting my cast-iron skillets never mind a wok - lol!!!
(And yes, I do know that iron/cast iron woks are used in many areas of Asia. If you want that sort of authenticity - go for it. If you want to enjoy cooking without breaking a wrist, stick with carbon steel - lol!)
This has been an interesting thread for me as I am in the same boat pretty much. Gas cooktop (but not wok burner). Taking the extra time to heat it up is not a problem at all for me. I crank it and continue my prep. It gets hot alright so no problem there. Nonetheless I am not happy with the bland flavours I'm getting with my bare cast iron Le Creuset wok.
Silly to blame the wok entirely, of course, it's mostly my technique with it. I have learned to cut down on the portion sizes going in and cook various groups of ingredients separately to be briefly re-united at the end.
Now I'm thinking I'm still over cooking and need to think more about the superior heat retention of the cast iron and how to cope with that.
I also need to be more subtle with the soy sauce. Too clumsy and ending with flavourless pile, I won't say mush or inedible, but it's not floating my boat.
I hope I can lift my game, it's a perfect healthy cooking style for a bachelor. Fun too, when you do it right.
<Nonetheless I am not happy with the bland flavours I'm getting with my bare cast iron Le Creuset wok.>
Maybe not straightly on the main topic, but I won't believe Le Cresuset offers bare cast iron woks. It sells enameled cast iron woks. Even black interior ones are enameled.
Hi Chem, I got it in the mid nineties in Australia. It's not enamel that is dark and roughish that's now on some modern LC pans. It's bare, with "Le Creuset" cast into the one of the D handles.
A friend worked for the distributors of LC here in Oz and I went to town on staff discounts. That's why I bought it, even then I was aware carbon steel was the traditional way to go but I figured this was a bargain (as bargain as LC ever gets) and cast iron "had to be better". It's sat in my cupboard under used because I never really got great food out of it, only okay food. I want to fix tht.
I love to stir-fry. It is becoming my central means of cooking. Even if my husband picks up something at the corner store, it is easy to jsut stir fry for myself. I have 3 WOK's, a cast iron, a stainless steel, and a non-stick. The cast iron is very slow, and I have a "super stove", just be careful to make sure it is at temp before using and yes, when you re-combine foods usually at end, you need to get it out of the WOK to prevent over cooking and go to a platter. For me, it is the slowness I do not like. I despise the stainless steel WOK, it takes too much oil to stop sticking- it is off my list. My non-stick is a German made, and I do like it very much. I am going to buy a carbon steel traditional WOK, in constant daily use, the rust should not be a problem and it will get seasoned. If you are not going to use a lot, the carbon steel may get rust spots, you can't let it siak it water- this is carbone steel- not stainless- it can rust. The constant use is what keeps the carbon steel rust free. the cast iron is just too slow for me- drives me nuts. wish I had not bought it, or the stainless one. For my dollar, go with an expensive clad non-stick and or a carbon steel. As I am using it daily, I expect to transition to the carbon steel and not look back.
OH- forgot the initial question- NO keep the cast WOK if you like it, my objection is NOT the quality of the food, it is the speed. As long as you do not mind heating it up to full speed, it is just as good as any !
I'm very curious as to what your experience has taught you in the past 12 months. Have you decided that a carbon steel wok is better for you or perhaps you use both depending on the particular recipe you are preparing? I purchased a cast iron wok because I thought that it might get a little hotter than a carbon steel. I have a glass-ceramic range and the Wokshop recommended a cast iron wok. (not sure why) I'm sure that I'll experiment with a carbon steel wok in the future and would very much like to know what you feel is the difference between the two both pro and con. Thanks.
I suppose this is a bit late so for what it's worth.
I had the same problem with the Lodge cast iron wok
I bought. Couldn't get enough heat from the largest
of my burners on my gas stove.
The wok sat about gathering dust up 'til the time
I decided to buy an induction cooking unit.
The two were made for each other.
The induction cooker heats up the wok very fast
and very hot.
The cast iron nature of the wok holds the heat.
What once was nothing more than a boat anchor has
become a useful tool in my kitchen.
It's a Burton Max. Nothing special....but it works.
My only issues are that the ring of induction is smaller
than what I was hoping for (doesn't work all that well
with a 12 inch cast iron skillet)
And I have to be careful with the plastic plate covering the various buttons when I clean the top surface.
Aside from that I've no complaints.
My wife and I are now into our 7th Wok.
We've been to various cities in China, and enjoy what we learned there. Woks with long handles are not normal in China, and are called " American-style Woks. " for that reason. Cloth towel on the wok to protect the hands and yes, cooks there do shake the woks, more than toss.
The general mantra there is very hot heat source which is usually high gas flow, and a well seasoned wok which heats up fast and cools down fast. 5 minutes or less for a meal cooked in a wok. That does not always fit our needs back home.
We use gas outdoors and induction indoors, using stainless steel woks that allow any cooking hob type, including induction. They are heavy, they hold heat which we want, and aren't inexpensive. No seasoning is ever needed and they clean well.
The first question I might ask you is what is your heat source ? Most can be " enhanced " with the exception of an electric cook top.
" They Cool slowly... " Hmm. The simple solution might be to plate the finished dish out of your wok when it is at 80 % done, as it will still cook a little on the plate. We do this with Italian pasta too, otherwise it may overcook in sauce. It does not have to stay in the wok when finished.
I suggest you continue with what you have, and try a few different wok types before investing in one. It is a great form of cooking good healthy meals, using minimal oil, but your wok equipment does not have to be expensive.
I hope this is helpful.
Back to Game Day 2.
I recently bought a thin traditional cast iron wok from the Wok shop (loop-style handles) to supplement my three carbon fiber woks. I LOVE it, and I am not finding it has any of the disadvantages you all mention.
Before trying it, I presumed carbon fiber was best because everyone said so. I purchased it along with a gorgeous carbon fiber wok I expected I would like more. But surprise, the cast iron became my instant favorite. Since I bought I've made four Chinese meals and this one has been my go-to...I'm finding it hard to go back!
A few thoughts:
HOW FAST TO HEAT? I worried about this, but it has been a non-issue. I think the reason this is stated as a disadvantage of this material is that some cast iron woks are too thick. The traditional Chinese one is extremely thin, and for this reason it does NOT take too long to heat up. I haven't done a side-by-side test with a temperature sensor but my impression is I have maybe an extra 20 seconds or so to kill--at most.
Note: I have 16k BTUS, fairly high for a residential stove. So my lag time may be less. But even so, I'm not seeing a dramatic gap between the two materials...really a minor difference.
OVERCOOKING: I am not having any issues with overcooking due to the wok holding heat. Maybe this is because of the technique I learned from various books, mainly Eileen Yin Fe Lo's and more recently Fuscia Dunlop, does not include turning down the heat when it gets too hot.
The recipes I use (and the ones I invent based on what I've learned) are carefully designed to have the right order of ingredients so everything cooks perfectly. The technique is on high heat, as hot as possible for most dishes, from start to finish.
All ingredients are prepped in small bowls and placed in order they will be used. I usually type out a brief instruction list since I don't have time to look at the cookbook: For example, my recipe for orange chicken becomes: heat wok 45 seconds/ add oil until white wisp of smoke comes out/add chilis and stir briefly until they darken and release aroma/add scallions, garlic and orange peel, stir about a minute/add (pre-fried)chicken, stir 45 seconds /add sauce, stir until mostly gone. Serve.
Given that this is the technique I use there's no need for the wok to cool down quickly. If you do need this for some recipes, I would say use the carbon fiber for those and the cast iron for others.
FLIPPING/SHAKING: The so-called "Pow" wok is a northern thing, not China wide. I believe the handled woks come from there. I have been cooking Chinese food from Ms. Lo's books and a few others regularly for a year now and I haven't yet come across a recipe where this technique is needed. I give a mild shake now and then while hoaking. My suggestion is that if you regularly use recipes where flipping/violent shaking is needed, absolutely go with a stick handle or a stick handle with a loop on the other side, which also exists. If you mostly do regular stir fries, I'd suggest the more compact loop design, which I find easier to manage and also hangs on your pot rack if you have one.
HEAT ON GAS BURNERS: I haven't tested the surface temp of my cast iron, but I do think it is slightly hotter during a rapid stir fry (most of mine are no more than 5 mins total) than my carbon fibers. However, I have another idea about this: Whatever wok you have, to increase your burner effective heat, do whatever you can to bring your wok closer to the flame. So if you are using a wok ring, try altering it as Eileen Yin Fe Lo recommends by cutting slots in it so it sits snugly over your regular burner; this think I saw a tutorial somewhere on the Web.
Another option is to see if your gas stove has an optional wok-grate attachment. This attachment replaces your regular burner grate and cradles the round woks, bringing them closer to the flame while keeping them nice and stable. Yet a final idea is just to balance the round wok on the burner...it's a bit wobbly but this has been my method until I discovered the grate option and so far no spills!
Another tip is that the shape of the flame matters. I have a central burner with one wide ring. It is TERRIBLE for wok cooking. The normal burners with a small ring in the middle and larger outer ring work better because they heat the very center of the wok, which makes it work better. For anyone who has multiple different shapes of burners, go with the ones that heats the center of the wok best.
Last thought...as a recent and very happy owner of the traditional style cast iron, I would like to add another plus, and one sole minus I can see. The plus is that it cures incredibly fast. I washed carefully as it came with some kind of protective lubricant and then followed instructions coat with oil lightly and put upside down in the oven for 20 minutes at 425 degrees. I then fried up, and deliberately burned, a bunch of onions, ginger, scallions and presto, it was the most amazingly seasoned wok I've ever had in less than an hour. The carbon fiber I bought the same day is coming along much more slowly!
And now the downside...I have read that if you drop one of these thin cast-iron Chinese traditional woks it breaks. And looking at it, I believe it. Being clumsy, I have already dropped my carbon fiber a few times with no issues. So just saying, that is a big downside. As for the other stuff, I'd say take the plunge, buy it, try it and I suspect you'll never go back.
re: John E.
A proper stir fry should NEVER be done in anything non-stick--fry pan, skillet or wok. Sir steams, as most Americans do, really rather than stir fries, do fine in non-stick. But if you are really stir frying, if you are really heating your skillet or wok up until it starts to smoke a little before adding oil and then food, non stick is OUT as non-stick coating can start to vaporize at these high temperatures. This can be dangerous for you, and the fumes can kill any captive birds in your home.
And I disagree than you cannot use a "proper wok" on an electric stove. If by "proper", you mean round bottomed, well then, yes--that can be more of a challenge on electric ranges (I do use my round bottomed traditional thin walled Chinese cast iron wok over electric coils on an upside down wok ring caked in foil, and it works very well for simple small stir fries. The secret is not over loading the wok--a small stir fried meal for two at the most! This decade old cat iron wok is shiny and black and so non-stick I also use if for many other things such as eggs and fried potatoes and crepes)/
Flat bottomed woks on electrical stoves can do wonderful stir fries if you work at it,though some might not call them "proper woks". Which personally I think is silly. My favorite flat bottomed woks for electrical stoves are the Chinese thin walled cast iron (with enameled exteriors), or the Joyce Chen thin walled cast iron, or the Excelsteel thin walled cast iron. The thin walled cast iron holds heat a little better than carbon steel and seasons a little easier and faster. Once can see why it is the favorite of many Cantonese house cooks.
re: John E.
Works fine for sautéing veg over rice I'm sure. That was what my mother called stir-fry.
A carbon steel flat bottom wok from World Market pre-heated 5-7 min on my dated range will in fact achieve a dull red glow and char veg & velveted proteins beautifully. This can be done on coils, it cannot be done with non-stick.