New Chowhound Design is Now Live!

[Dave MP]

We’re pleased to announce a new design for Chowhound board and thread pages, the first of a series of changes that will be released in the upcoming months. To learn more about the design and functionality, take a look at this video: http://www.chow.com/food-news/131157

Here’s a bit of background about why we are redesigning the look of the site:

This is the biggest change to the look of the site since Chowhound (re)launched in 2006! It is absolutely a necessity for us to evolve and modernize the look of Chowhound to compete in today’s food-obsessed web environment. To keep the site going strong, change is needed.

The design that you are seeing is the product of 6 months of work and planning. We’ve conducted user testing with both casual and long-term users and have come up with a design that we believe works for mobile as well as desktop users. We’re proud of what we’ve accomplished.

In the past year, we have seen dramatic increases in our mobile traffic. Our new design addresses the needs of these users, while maintaining the functionality that desktop users rely upon. The design you are currently seeing is a living thing. We will be changing the site repeatedly in the months ahead based on how people are using the site.

We’ve tested the site extensively before this release, but there may be things that we missed. If you notice bugs, please report them on Site Talk. The best strategy is to start a new discussion about the particular bug, which will ensure that our Engineering team sees it and addresses the problem. For more information on how to report bugs and technical problems, see: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/877664

If you have feedback about the new design, it’s helpful to be as specific as possible and bear in mind that we are working to address the needs of many different types of users. Thank you for your commitment to the site, and for taking part in the ongoing process of improving it,

Dave MP on behalf of the CHOW Product Team

[The Chowhound Team]

Folks, this thread is getting very long, and the latest replies are increasingly focused on hounds sniping at each other, rather than talking about the design itself.

We're going to lock this thread now, but we do want you to continue to comment on the new design. There are follow-up threads describing the tweaks we've been making as a result of your feedback and it would be great if you added any new comments there. The most recent is from Thursday: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881959

But there's also Wednesday:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881806
And Tuesday:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881622

If you come across specific items that are broken, you can also start new threads to report those bugs.

[jen kalb]

Dave MP, I know this is really repetitious but returning to my office view today, and paging down my profile "view" I could barely discern the difference between posts that had changed and not, leaving aside the little arrows. The distinction between the two background colors and the two levels of darkness of the headers was barely discernable. If the site can show big reg knife and fork icons, it can also use the new button or a similar clear indicator of threads with new content Right now there are three ways you are trying to show it and none of them are intuitive or communicate effectively.

Still too much empty space creating a glare around the type.

Other things seem to be getting somewhat better, thanks.

[Robert Lauriston]

You might try clearing your browser's cache in case it's using an old version of the CSS. If that's not it, you must have an exceptionally low-contrast display if the difference between 2% and 16% gray isn't clear.

[elliora]

Seriously, who thought this redesign was a good idea??? I am not a very active user, so maybe my opinion wont count, but this may be the end of the road for me and chowhound. I LOVED this site, but with each redesign it got a little more difficult to use. This is just ridiculous though. First it is really hard to read, to the point that my head is hurting after a few minutes. Secondly, it is confusing as ... Why do the posts say when they were started? I can look in the thread if I want to know that, I want to know when the last reply was! Ugh, ugh, ugh!

[linguafood]

OK, today the bug showing threads twice is back.

The last 3 threads on the discussions page show up as the first three on the second page....

[Jay F]

The site is somewhat easier to read now. I no longer have to toggle between control + and control - to maintain a constantly readable typeface size.

Also, the Reply box typeface is sans serif (Yay!) and a larger size (double yay!)

I wish there were no gray type anywhere, and especially no gray type on a gray background (the unread posts seem to have a darker type today, but it's still read against a gray background).

[LindaWhit]

Some additional updates were posted by Meredith in a new thread:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881959

[Robert Lauriston]

Everything including edit seems to work fine in Safari on my iPad 2 running iOS 5.1.1. It's not mobile-adapted, which is fine with me.

[EaterBob]

There used to be a link back to the regional board at the bottom of every thread. This has now disappeared. On long threads (such as this ones) it would be nice to have so one did not have to scroll all the way back to the top.

Thank you,

EDIT: It appears that you have one for this board. But there is not one on the Quebec (inc. Montreal) board.

EDIT 2: It appears that there is some threshold of comments that has to be attained before the link back kicks in at the bottom. As I use a small screen, this is not helpful. Could the threshold be set so that ALL threads have a link at the bottom to go to the parent board? Thank you very much in advance.

[John E.]

I see it is still necessary to scroll all the way back to the top to respond to the OP, even with a thread that has more than 600 replies. This is an easy fix, why has it been ignored?

[mcf]

You don't see the link right under the last post's right hand corner with an arrow and the words "To the Top?"

[John E.]

Yes, I did. Then it is necessary to scroll 'down' to the reply button (see long OPs in the Top Chef threads).

A reply button in addition to the 'to the top' button is an easy fix.

[LindaWhit]

AND it's something they had in the last iteration of the boards. So why it was taken away is beyond me.

[Ruth Lafler]

Good point -- actually applies to this thread. I don't need a "to the top" button when I can just use the "home" button or the "tap the top header" bar someone suggested for mobile devices.

[mcf]

I see your point.

[Zalbar]

There are some major design flaws with the new format.

1. Post width, take your right menu and move it OFF the grey space. Expand the Posting column to take up this space.

2. Lag/load times. I'm not sure what it is up the site is decidely "kludgy" to use now.

3. New post/thread etc. Sorry to burst your bubble but most titles should be in bold by default, this isn't something that should be used to indicate new posts. It should be something very clear and specific such as an icon or clear contrasting color, not something that blends in with everything else as it does now.

Reply seeds should also be collapsed by default if not new and expandable with a + sign on the root post. This lengthy post is a perfect example, you have to scroll through tons of replies you've read before, even if just titles, just to see if there's something new.

Apologies for the negative comments but nothing is really intuitive, and it's just poorly implemented. The new format should really have gone through a public beta before being brought live.

[JMF]

Instant eye strain headache. Horrible site redesign.

[KaimukiMan]

I admit I have not read every response. I'm one who likes the opening words of each posting showing. One thing that I would like (being a self centered, vain, and narcissistic person) would be to have the viewer's name highlighted so that I can be sure to respond to any comments directed at me. In other words, whenever I open this up, anyplace Kaimukiman shows as the poster it would show up in boldface or in red or something. when kaleokahu opens it up, he sees kaleokahu in bold or red or whatever.

[cowboyardee]

I second this suggestion.

[Steve Green]

Great idea. Should be easy to implement, and I can't see a downside.

[chowdom]

Afterimages...
For me today's color scheme is as bad as white on black and almost physically painful.
Seriously like a bad acid trip

[wincountrygirl]

LOL - but I agree!!

[psb]

Are those RED DIAMONDS for CHOWHOUND "ELITES"?
(I thought they were tears at first).

[Quine]

The red diamonds indicate an "official" ChowTeam member. the "moderators" can use them at their discretion. I believe that, at least on Site Talk, all "moderators" should be mandated to use the diamond.

[The Chowhound Team]

The red diamonds are meant to draw attention to replies that will contain official information. The volunteer moderators use this "The Chowhound Team" username when posting as moderators, and it has the red diamond attached.

[Quine]

It is interesting to note the stats from Alexa.com that the reach (Estimated percentage of global internet users who visit chow.com) stats for yesterday was -19.26%. I think the design change is a Fail.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/chow.com

Additionally, looking at where visitors go on Chow.com:
chowhound.chow.com 79.55%
chow.com 24.42%
search.chow.com 0.18%

It seems rather clear that what drives and keeps Chow.com going is the CH section, and you are losing people.
Those are some numbers.

[Ruth Lafler]

This, despite hundreds of posts (in various threads) about the new site design.

[Quine]

Amazing, isn't it? That much of a DROP (as in CH fell off the cliff) in traffic in one day. The design launch day.

[GH1618]

If you look at the stats more carefully and objectively, you will see that there is a weekly cycle to Chow traffic which peaks on Sunday, then falls through the week. After removing the effect of the Thanksgiving peak, the trend in Chow usage has been generally upward. Your conclusion is unfounded, and it is too early to draw any such conclusion.

[Quine]

"Your conclusion is unfounded, and it is too early to draw any such conclusion"

And unto you I say; Your conclusion is unfounded, and it is too early to draw any such conclusion.

[kaleokahu]

Hi, GH1618:

OK, let's compare last Sunday with next. Care to make a prediction, Mr. Rove? ;)

Aloha,
Kaleo

[pine time]

I've gotten more used to the changes, but still request:
1. Smaller font on the topics page. Seeing, what, maybe 20 at a time takes too much paging to get to a day's worth of posts.
2. Even when going to page 2, still have repeats of maybe 10 posts from page 1, meaning my page 2 really shows only 10 new posts--adding redundancy to the already small # of posts
3. Tiny font in typing replies. Gave up on typing a recipe 'cause I couldn't tell if I had typed 1/3 c or 1/8 cup.
4. Have gotten used to the greys and the left-facing arrow for new, but wonder how long it will take newbies to figure that out--could have been much more intuitive from the get-go

Do like the 1st line repeat on existing replies. Sadly, that's about the only change I see that was an improvement.

[miss louella]

I won't reiterate things I've already read; suffice it to say I love change and I seriously do not love the changes here. Suggestions:

1 Pls fix/explain the most common complaints you've seen here.

2 Pls make the # with that <--- with already read posts more meaningful: tell us how many NEW replies, not total number

3 Pls enjoy a big staff meal and vent about how hard it is to improve things in a way that people see as improvement.

[jjjrfoodie]

I'm sure the "Brand Manager's" who developed the New Coke , thought the same.

I can indeed confirm that almost none of them work for Coca Cola any more.

Adjust to crappy designformats, issues and all the other bugs and be complacent? My a$$. Ha.
I add content.

No Content. No traffic. Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $200.
Done.

[jjjrfoodie]

"Almost"white field w/black type for responses with grey compressed older post tabs now up.

I like it. -thumbup-
You still need to go back to a white field with black type though. This faint gray field stuff no matter the topic or thread is stll REALLY fatiguing on the eyes and hard to read. After 6 pages or threads I have to leave the site. It's just too hard to read though effectively.

Also fix that crappy 84 point type with waaaay too much white space and info inefficiency on the main chowhound.com page and you MAY be heading in the right direction.

This re-do reminds me to NEVER just hire a bunch of guys with hammers and wood to build a new addition on my house.

Common sense tells me to hire a architect (or in your case a graphic designer that did more than draw "Tippy the Turtle" and do "remote" schooling) to design a well done additon. Or in your case, a web site redeux.

I moderate 2 sites w/forums and Admin a 3rd.

This is laughable in so many ways that i KNOW you can do better.
C'mon CH web team and CBS mgmt.

Don't try and do a forum from scratch if you don't know how.
#vBulletin

Tippy the Turtle ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Inst...

[greygarious]

The beige background now on display in the Chowhound redesign banner at the top of the page is very easy on the eyes. Replace the snowblind white with that beige, darken the gray, and cut the blank space. That will at least eliminate the physical distress of trying to deal with this loathsome redesign. Then all we'll need to get used to is the folly of rejiggering the design without addressing readers'
most common and oft-repeated complaints.

[mariacarmen]

1. Why gray/gray type, ever? Black type, some bold colors for emphasis, distinction.
2. Bring back the "New" button.
3. Less titles per page is irksome, not efficient.
4. Bring back the "Respond to OP" at the bottom of a thread
5. If we MUST have the preview line on previously read replies, at least please make those a completely different color than the unread replies - NOT a different shade of gray. Again, why gray ever?
6. While you're working on things, why not throw your loyal stalwart posters a bone and give us the ability to unsubscribe from a post we no longer have interest in seeing on our profiles?
7. I haven't seen this yet, so if it has already happened, I apologize, but please let us know what changes you are contemplating making in response to this deluge of valid complaints (they're valid because most people are in agreement on most of them).

Thank you.

[HillJ]

I'm already reading new comments within a thread in black, not grey.

There is another OP on Site Talk from Meredith addressing the changes being made. It's been linked to this thread a few x's.

[mariacarmen]

there is still too much gray, as any gray in text for me is too much. it creates a blur that is unpleasant and eye-straining, even on already read threads/replies. i am not a person who complains a lot about headaches, eye strain, etc., and i am not change averse in the least. also, the text is still small in the reply, something i failed to mention above. these are changes that were made for the worse, not for the better. if you like it, that is fine, but you do not need to monitor others.

[Quine]

Well said, Maria, the 99% of us who have complained in honest, about the size, contrast, bad use of color scheme, have pretty much been told by "certain" people here, without diamonds next to their names, about how "changes" are being made, when they are actually only bug fixes. We are still trying to read 8 pt. type in a space that is less than 50% of the page width. Telling people to essentially "suck it up" is an attempt to monitor others. Maybe they are afraid of a mutiny.
:-)

[LindaWhit]

You might have noticed that the 8 pt. reply font is gone! Updates for Wednesday are here:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881806

However, I would STILL like to see the column used for the actual read/write area to be widened. Maybe tomorrow. :-)

[Quine]

That 8 point font is not the reply it is the thread size. I measured it, The reply field type is now maybe 10 pt. but the rest of the thread is 8. So still dang hard to read in this snowblind field.

[LindaWhit]

I'm going to have to disagree. I believe the reply is now 12 pt. and the regular thread size posts for reading is 10 point. But perhaps it's various browsers and OS that makes the difference.

[mariacarmen]

i did just note a lot of the changes that were made, Linda, thanks for linking to Meredith's post. i'd actually stayed off this site most of the day, and signed up over at egullet. i do like what i see over there, but i'm happy we were listened to (somewhat) and hopefully will continue to be listened to here, as i never really wanted to leave. i was just telling friends how much i love CH, two days ago!

(i also want to add that in no way do i think CH is "caving" to people who threaten to leave, nor should they be guided by that. i certainly meant no threat by my mention of another site, and do not believe my departure would be noticed nor should it be. i'm again grateful that CH is listening to its users.)

[LindaWhit]

egullet is just too stuffy for me, and I dislike the way they shove everything into one thread, even if someone starts a new thread - it's all moved over to the old thread. As I said long ago, I don't want to read a restaurant review thread that goes back 5 years. I prefer the most recent info, the way CH allows an updated thread to be started.

And YES, it would be noticed if you left! So please don't.

[Harters]

Personally, I've always preferred the egullet format (and site design) to Chowhound's.

And, yes, I definitely prefer the single thread concept. Of course, I'm not really interested in a review from five years ago. But I'm probably interested in five weeks, or five months, back - particularly when it's a review from someone whose views I respect. That said, my home (UK/Ireland) board has a declining number of folk posting so it is becoming less of a place of interest to me (Twitter and Facebook seem to be increasingly replacing discussion boards - not that I use either)

[mariacarmen]

i haven't played around enough over there.... interesting...

awwww thanks LW! i'm not going anywhere. i'll be snow blind but i'll be here.

[lcool]

"mutiny" has maybe acquired the status of DIRTY WORD and in the context it's been used here I LOVE IT

me with zero complaints or problems other than GRAY
has real sympathies with the mutineers

[mariacarmen]

heh-heh-heh! thanks Quine.

[lcool]

Your complaint about GRAY is very real.If it wasn't there would not be a PLETHORA of tinted lenses for pilots,sailors and shooters to choose from in gray on gray,trimmed in gray and low to ZERO horizon conditions.All measured in numbers of pink and gray layered tint.I have two or three early on posts addressing the gray,all tongue in cheek smarmy and TOTALLY serious.

The optic nerve to the brain problems were observed,SOLVED and addressed about this decades ago.Bound ledgers were/are green tint with a black/blue contrast to reduce ERRORS.No one gave a whit about fatigue or any of the human problems.The boss only gave a sh*t about mistakes he might have to eat. GRAY is cheap,REALLY CHEAP just check any printer,even 21st century on a bad day.

PS I get the same "monitoring others" feel that you have/re Hill J

[mariacarmen]

thanks lcool. the gray REALLY bugs! i knew it couldn't just be all of us being babies.

and thanks for the support. no one needs anyone telling us how to appreciate or react to something we are all very involved in!

[lcool]

mariacarmen you're welcome

Babies,no way.Some/many of us began our computer years on the "old gray curved" screen,no colour.I,for one remember people that had to give up contact lenses,change glasses etc to be "screen specific" for visual acuity without headaches and work.There were a few that had tinted covers over the monitor screen to modify curved gray.

[GH1618]

Not "all of us." The gray suits me fine.

[LindaWhit]

However, you are about the only person who has stated it in various threads, GH1618.

The overwhelming response is that the pale gray-on-slightly darker gray-with even darker gray sidebars-next to stippled gray outside sidebars is very wearing on the eyes for *most*.

[GH1618]

Actually, the "overwhelming response" is from the many participants in Chowhound who are continuing to use the site without participating in any of these complaint threads.

[mariacarmen]

i said not "all of us" being babies - all of us who are complaining about the gray.

[Ruth Lafler]

And yet, the Chowhound Team has yet to inform us of their rationale for choosing a color scheme that people are finding not only ugly, but hard on the eyes. How about it, Chowhound Team? Why, exactly, is this being foisted on us?

[mcf]

How would it improve things for them to explain why they made such bad choices? I much prefer they keep reading the feedback and fix it, period.

[Ruth Lafler]

If I understood the decision-making process it might make it easier to (1) accept things I don't like but understand the reasoning behind, or (2) suggest other ways they could accomplish the same objectives.

[mcf]

No amount of information would make it any easier for my eyes or brain to adapt to the crud they did. And nothing is stopping the flow of suggestions or, thankfully, some positive responses so far.

[smtucker]

1. I can't tell anymore which posts I have viewed in the past, and which ones I haven't.

2. Have to scroll all the way to the top of a topic to post a reply to the original post.

3. Only 20 topics per page, but if I want to head to page 3, I can't go there directly. I have to go to 2, and only then does the page 3 icon appear.

4. Finding the color variation between white background [new post] and the grey background [no new post] very hard to differentiate even on my 30" monitor.

Those are my major complaints. I suspect that others have mentioned all the little things that are annoying me.

[lcool]

I agree,one page at a time isn't the best way.

[ylsf]

Really would like a wider "Centre" column. Is the intention to add adds to the left hand column?? I think before the forum took both the centre and left column. It is much too narrow now with a lot of wasted space on the left hand side

[Mothership]

I have a few iPhone specific questions. When I open the Chowgound home page, I am seeing only 20-ish posts and have no way that I can find to get any more or move on to the next page. Since Chowhound is my go-to page for perusing when I have a free moment, this is just so depressing. And - when I'm trying to find a thread on a certain board, I have the "5 dots" at the bottom, but after that cannot get any further.If it is an older thread, how do I get there? Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong or missing here?

[JoanN]

On a different thread, meshane posted a work-around for the five-page limit: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8815...

I think it's unacceptable to have to emend the URL simply to get beyond page 5 in a long thread. I'm a comparative newcomer to using CH on a smartphone so I'm not sure how much this will affect me. But I know that on my laptop and desktop I am regularly scrolling through very long Cookbook of the Month threads and to be cut off before reaching the end could be extremely annoying.

[Mothership]

Thank you JoanN. Went there and checked it out. Thats a bit too much for me with my completely underwhelming computer skills. But I appreciate the link :)

[mariacarmen]

agreed - that is totally unacceptable.

[Jacquilynne]

Just to clarify, it's the lists of threads on board indexes where you'll be able to scroll back through 5 pages when using mobile.

If you've opened a discussion and are reading it, it's all on a single page and won't be cut off.

[JoanN]

Oh. I see. Yes, that's very different. Thanks for the clarification, although it was necessitated by my misunderstanding.

[Mothership]

Ok Jacquilynne. I can live with the 5 pages of access on the boards. But is there a way on the opening page to access more than the first page? I mean things drop off that first page so quickly since it now shows so few posts.

[hbg1]

I agree that it's an unacceptable solution to actually have to edit the url on a smartphone in order to access content, where that is the only possible way to get to that content.

My big pet peeve is where a website decides what's best for everyone without allowing for options that people want. Since only 10% of users view more than 5 pages in (as was stated in another thread), then too bad if you're in that 10%.

If I haven't been keeping up on an active board, I very often want to quickly scan through the posts going back a few days, which in the new format would be way more than 5 pages. (In the old format, it would be about 2 or maybe 3 pages back.) And again, in this scenario, smaller fonts and more per page would be ideal. I have a hard time reading the post titles quickly with such a big font (on the PC -- I am waiting for the fix for Android to make it actually usable on Android). I literally have to move further away from my monitor as I read them. I have never had to do that before.

I do like the changes that were made today -- it's easier to read the threads. And count me in for liking the preview on the already-read replies.

Please allow mobile users to actually access the site's content without resorting to manipulating url's.

One other suggestion -- rollover text. Very easy to add, and it would make some of your important unidentified icons a bit clearer.

[meshane]

Just to clarify, it's not 10% of pageviews that have gone past the first 100 threads, is 1/10th of 1 percent. That's 0.1%.

I do agree that editing a URL is not a great solution for that 0.1%, but I wanted to make sure that power users know how to do it if they are in that group.

As I mentioned on the other thread, the mobile experience is designed to be a streamlined experience providing most users with what they look for most of the time, and we will continue to make adjustments and appreciate constructive feedback.

[hbg1]

Thanks for the correction and response - sorry I hadn't gone to find the other thread that quoted the numbers.

I do see a bit of a conflict in that the site has clearly been redesigned for mobile, and hopefully the major bugs for mobile users will be resolved quickly. But if that's the case, then why completely block a lot of the site's content from mobile users?

Right now I mostly use the site on a PC, but like many I am moving more toward mobile access. I can't say that I've spent more than a few minutes on this site on my Android phone because of the font issues. It's not usable there right now, but if/when that is addressed, I'd like to be able to have the same experience on my phone that I do on the website. At least please allow us to access the regular site as an alternative if we so choose.

One other unrelated point that people have mentioned, that I'll bring up here. I would really like a way to remove a thread from my list. I've had to completely unsubscribe to email notifications because I replied to this thread, so that I would stop getting hundreds of emails about it. But in general I like the email feature, and didn't really want to turn it off. Allowing me to remove this post from the list, or even better, have a separate control for receiving email notifications, would really be helpful.

I noticed that people have been requesting this for a long time. Is there a reason that this has never been implemented?

[roxlet]

1. Smaller font size for thread titles
2. Less grey, and black type, not grey type
3. "New" button
4. Be able to respond to OP without going to the top of the page.
5. More thread titles per page
6." Link, flag and reply" available at all times

Just off the top of my head...

[mcf]

Yes to all the above!

[will47]

It would be great if you fixed this problem with closing parentheses at end of lines under certain conditions like (http://example.com

)

Reported to a friend at CBS Interactive years ago, but seems to have persisted through several upgrades.

You can see more examples, including some without a URL before the paren, see a few posts down in:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881557

[Peripatetic]

They did all this work and _still_ haven't fixed this bug? Wow.

FWIW, one work-around is to put a trailing space after the closing parenthesis, at the end of the line:

(http://example.com)
(See, it works!)

But it would be better if this bug was simply fixed.

[JP RS]

terrible. i posted on the Boston site that the font size is too big and there is too much scrolling. That post appears to have been deleted.

This is a really bad design. It is hard to believe it was tested with users.

[sal_acid]

Too much scrolling. Too much "next paging". To few topics/screen. Not good.

[LindaWhit]

It was deleted because that's been the SOP procedure for Chowhound since its inception - the Boston board was not the place to post comments about the website.

[cowboyardee]

- Though many people hate seeing the first line of text from collapsed posts, I don't think it's a bad change. It is distracting at first, but I got pretty used to it in the course of a day, and it can give you idea of where the conversation is at a glance.

- I think the contrast between those collapsed posts and new posts has been increased in the last few hours, and that is a good thing. Even a little more contrast might help.

- Like others, I'd prefer to have more than 20 threads on the 'Latest Chowhound Posts" page.

- I like that the avatars are bigger and easier to make out when they do appear. But I would prefer to still have avatars show up next to second-tier replies, even if they were small. They help me quickly find particularly trusted posters at a glance.

- Now that you've got all that extra space, consider maybe restoring the "Discussions You Might Also Like" section to its former glory, including more than three threads. Just a thought.

[The Dairy Queen]

I loved the "Discussions you might also like" before it was trimmed down to only 3 discussions.

~TDQ

[mcf]

I pretty much agree with all youv'e stated... the preview of responses is a positive addition.

I'm still having a lot of discomfort with the visuals, font and contrast. :-( And more blank screen than content.

[jen kalb]

I think the preview of responses is fine - but the first line text should be the same size as the name and time. That would reduce the confusion and make the view much more attractive.

[DGresh]

you're right about that. It's kind of klunky looking. In this day and age......

[GH1618]

What confusion? The preview text is a little larger than the user name and time of post, so it stands apart. This makes it easier for the eye to jump to the point where reading begins. On my system, for me, it's perfect just the way it is now.

[DiningDiva]

And to my eye it looks cluttered, messy and unappealing.

[Westminstress]

I can't scroll through all 477 posts on my iPhone to see what others have said, but I have a couple of concerns about the font. I access the site primarily on an iPhone. 1. I don't like the giant font on the first line of the thread title. Can the title font be all the same size (the smaller size please). 2. The new font for posts is hard to read. There is not enough head space around the text, I have to squint a bit when reading which is uncomfortable. As a mobile user, I found the old site easier to read.

[magic]

Hate the new site: 467

Like it: 4.

Hmm.

[will47]

In all fairness, many people don't like change, and I hated the last redesign almost as much as this one, and got used to it.

I think with a forum, we forget how used we are to the design being a certain way, and any kind of change can be pretty disruptive.

That said, I do find it hard to believe that the folks who did all of this extensive testing didn't find the new version difficult to navigate.

[magic]

They have made some changes today that I consider to be a real improvement comapred to what I was seeing this morning, but there is still work to be done. And many are still having problems.

I agree that people don't like change but when the overwhelming majority of posts are complaints and not kudos something has to be done or you risk losing them.

It looks like CH is listening, somewhat.

[Jay F]

If you switch back to the old version, we can agree never to speak of this again.

[Breadcrumbs]

Well, back home to give this site another chance from my macbook. Conclusion....I think Dave misspelled the last word in the "Subject" of this thread. I think he meant to type:

<<New Chowhound Design is Now Vile!>>

[catroast]

unread threads should be grey and not white.

[TeacherFoodie]

Can you please end this thread so that I stop getting emails from it? Start a new one maybe?!! At this rate, my Inbox will be full in a few hours!

[LindaWhit]

Why not just temporarily turn off the Email feature? I've never used that feature, for exactly the reason you state. If I want to see if someone has responded on a thread I posted on, I just come back to CH and scan the thread.

[Mr Taster]

We've been down that road, with little real resolution.

It's awfully strange, because an "unsubscribe from thread" function seems like a no-brainer from a user experience standpoint. Also, it would be great to have an option to be notified only when your post has been replied to.

I can only surmise there must be other reasons that an unsubscribe function has been very consciously and deliberately omitted.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/823989

Mr Taster

[LindaWhit]

Agree. An "unsubscribe" would be a great (AND HIGHLY USABLE!) feature.

I can't count how many times I've read someone who wishes to unsubscribe from what has become an unwieldy thread because they responded *once*, and yet they can't do so.

[John E.]

I mentioned this feature on the earlier thread. I'm tired of several threads, most recently, the 'describe your cooking style in three words'. I wish I had not post a reply.

[magic]

Ditto, I really regret posting on that Best Cooking Shows thread that one time or so. I was done with that thread years ago yet there it still is - high on my profile page, mocking me. Le sigh.

Kudos though CH for changing the typing font in these reply boxes.

MUCH better. :)

[GH1618]

I agree. When I am no longer interested in a thread, I don't want it showing up with the threads which I am still following.

[MacGuffin]

It would be nicer if we could just opt out of threads...a potentially useful feature that I'm assuming isn't part of this "upgrade."

[magic]

AGREED!!!!

Why can't we opt out of threads??

[will47]

I have thought for a long time that Chowhound should let you both *subscribe* to threads you're interested in, but haven't posted in, and *unsubscribe* to threads you have posted in, but are no longer interested in seeing updates from. If this is already possible, let me know how.

[magic]

Here here.

[weedy]

Indeed, the LARGE TYPE edition might be nice for the visually impaired, or perhaps on cell phones, but on a computer it just ends up being annoying.
And frankly, it looks amateurish - as though it was designed without user readability in mind.

Apple manages to make its site look good on a computer AND on an iPhone without it looking like early 80's experiments in desktop publishing.

[mudaba]

Hey everyone, Just wanted to share a link to the post where I describe the changes we made today, based on large part on the constructive feedback we've gotten from users: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881622

More coming tomorrow. Thanks, Meredith

[bob gaj]

hope the fonts get reduced down to a more realistic size.

thanks.

[Chimayo Joe]

Today is my first time to see the redesign on my PC.

My biggest complaint is the font size and small number of topics shown/page. Not enough topics per page was a major complaint after the last redesign, and thankfully, the powers that be corrected that mistake.

The other major complaint in the previous redesign was too much white space, and those in charge fixed that by making the sides of the page something other than white. This latest design is just too gray. I was able to fix that somewhat by using NoSquint to set a white background and black text, but now I'm stuck with something similar to the "too white" old design. It's still better than the new color scheme though.

I agree with the people who say the font size needs fine-tuning. Too big on the listed topics, about right on the shown replies, and too small on the reply I'm typing now.

Until today, I'd only seen the new design on my iPad and the deficiencies of the new design weren't as apparent there.

[bcc]

What a shi**y design for non-mobile users!

[IWantFood]

This new layout is definitely NOT an improvement. It looked fine the way it was, and it was much easier to read. Couldn't you have left well enough alone?

[Quine]

In case anyone cares, this thread is from the last mega design change : http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/726572

Nothing changed then, and now it is worst.

[kengk]

OK, 24 hours later I'm pretty much used to it.

The only thing that still bothers me is the low contrast between the gray and the gray and the gray.

[anonymoose]

What works and is good for mobile devices does not necessarily work or is good for people viewing the site on computers.

The design of each board - narrow margins, giant fonts - makes my eyes unfocus and I have to move way back from my computer screen in order to read the titles. Good for seniors and mobile devices, bad for anyone on a computer.

While individual posts look ok for size, the grey text on a grey background is hard on the eyes. And what's with the super teeny tiny font for the reply boxes? Why can't we have normal font sizes??

You know, most sites have a mobile version of their regular site, not a single version that caters to mobile devices.

[Harters]

I'd agree with anonymoose's comments here. The more I've used the site this evening, the more I have come to really dislike the changes. I can easily see myself spending much less time here as reading posts simply isnt a fun thing any more.

[Bacchus101]

Many intelligent and helpful comments here. For those who would rather leave than offer constructive suggestions for improvement to evolve the site: In the spirit of the season ""If they'd rather leave then perhaps they had better do so and decrease the surplus site population.

[magic]

I welcome both construcive, thoughtful feedback and angered FAILS. Everyone's voice is helpful I think.

[Quine]

But we have already been told, the new design is it, what's the use of giving constructive suggestions? Been on this site for 6 years now, it used to be my first and most read site. I've seen it go through many design changes, all for the worst, and corrections were for bugs only. This is not my first rodeo here.
Where as I used to happily spend hours reading topics and posts, now it is just minimum.
There are better sites out there, ones with good content, active discussions and a usable photo album. If Chow doesn't wish to compete, so be it.
Tavern on the Green used to be a great restaurant, now it's gone.

P.S. No site, like any other business, can have a "surplus population". Especially one that depends on ad revenue.

[chowdom]

I for one would love a list of those sites...Please!

[Dustin_E]

Everyone from digg left to go to reddit after they botched that redesign.

Anyone know what the best chowhound alternative is, apart from blogs?

Anyway, it is the year 2012. I thought the problem of designing a web-based message board was solved 20 years ago.... guess i was wrong.

[davis_sq_pro]

Best alternative site? Probably Egullet. Which has a very nicely designed forum. Although I prefer the general "vibe" of Chowhound, so I come here. Perhaps it's time for a change. My eyes are literally in pain as I type this, thanks to the terrible color scheme.

As an aside: The Chow.com site is nicely skinned. It boggles the mind that a site like Chow would want to create an inconsistent look and feel. Which makes me wonder whether this same skin will be applied to the rest of the site? That will certainly be interesting...

[Ruth Lafler]

I've never liked either the look or the "vibe" of egullet. People might not know that egullet was originally started as an alternative to chowhound by people who were either banned or left in a fit of pique over what was then Jim Leff's moderation policy. Then after all kinds of nasty internecine fighting they ended up having a purge of their own. Maybe they've grown up some since then, but they've always had what I think of as a cliquish, boys'club, know-it-all tone.

[bbqboy]

Yeah. It is really boring and pretentious, for the most part.
The Chicago contingent's spin off- LTH is much more fun but is obviously, mostly about Chicago. Oh well, I'll just stick around here. :)

[masha]

I've lurked on LTH for years but never joined. May be time to do so.

[Quine]

Wow! Just clicked over to egullet to check it out, try to get a feel for it. While, I can't speak for the tone of it (yet), it's design clearly has it over this new one. Clicking back to CH was such a shock! Why would any site want to have miles of blank space? And in such camouflage colors, making it so difficult to read?

[Ruth Lafler]

Egullet is practically useless for my purposes, since it lumps all of California into one board and has relatively small participation.

Different board formats have different pros and cons. For example, there's no way to compress read posts on egullet discussions, nor can they be threaded to easily see who is responding to what.

[Chris VR]

I prefer Egullet's spin-off, www.mouthfulsfood.com to egullet. Wading through the in-jokes and chat there is time-consuming but there's a pretty high quality level of content once you wade through it all.

[susanl143]

Went to the mouthfulsfood site in hopes that it would be an improvement in design over this site. It looks to me as if this new design here is a copy of their site. Bad idea. The moderators here say they are working on answering our complaints. I'll keep checking for a design that doesn't give me a headache for a few days befoe I give up. I read Chowhound.com for pleasure. If the eyestrain causes me pain, I'll miss the site but I won't be back. Oh, besides the contrast issues, this type face is pretty but it is also hard reading.

[will47]

I know about the whole Chowhound / eGullet split.

I think that both forums have their own quirks -- I read and post on both, but I prefer Chowhound most of the time. Yes, eGullet's stated policies and mission are pretentious as hell, *but* the actual people there tend to be reasonable, and are less likely to rise to flamebait than folks on here.

While both Chowhound and eGullet have overactive moderation, I think eGullet has a bit better signal:noise ratio - while its silly signup policy is a bit exclusionary, that, combined with the lack of focus on regional specific stuff and its overactive combining of threads, also results in a lot less of "I'm visiting LA from New York -- what restaurants should I go to" kind of questions.

[MacGuffin]

Uh...many of us tried to do just that, only to be told by "Nanny Dave" and "Nanny Jason" that the powers-that-be knew what was best for us. That thread, BTW, disappeared off our profile pages and is now locked.

[Dave MP]

Hi MacGuffin,

The reason that discussion was locked was because I started this new discussion instead, right when the new design went up. It was more useful for us for people to comment on the actual new design, and not just the mocks that were provided last week.

However, locked discussions are not supposed to disappear from your profile. I just looked at this too, and it's a bug. Hopefully this will be fixed soon, and thanks for alerting me to it!

[lcool]

Locked threads disappearing from the profile isn't a NEW bug.

I assumed it was deliberate,policy of some sort.

[Quine]

Exactly! I find out that a thread has been locked, by it disappearing from my profile. I also assumed it was a deliberate action since it has been that way for a while.

[Jacquilynne]

Just a bit of ancient history, this actually was deliberately chosen behavior, but the site evolved until it basically became a bug.

Once upon a time, there were only a small number of discussion on people's profile pages -- the exact number varied over time, but it wasn't paginated to include your entire history like it is now. The idea of that page was to let people keep up with active conversations, and we didn't want to sacrifice one of those precious slots to discussions that were locked, because by definition, they couldn't be active anymore. So we specifically excluded locked threads.

Eventually, the user pages evolved to where they are now, with a user's whole history on them, but the restriction to open threads remained.

[lcool]

Jacquilynne,greetings on day 3 I think there is still a time line,clock problem.I was here last evening,12 December ?22:30/23:00 EST and your reply had some time on it then,yet now 08:25 13 December your reply is only "about 10 hours ago".I don't know how close,accurate the "clock",time stamp should be,different by 2+ hours seems a bit much.

That is way I thought I remembered "locked threads",thanks for confirming.

I wouldn't mind a "delete thread" option in my profile.I could,would purge 40% almost instantly.That would,for me and others maybe leave space for the odd closed thread we do want handy,easy to find.

PS,the little red diamond made relocating this a day later,the proverbial cake walk.

[zin1953]

Ooooh, yet another bug . . . whatever happened to testing it before going live?

Yesssss . . . clearly more important to satisfy the corporate suits (who profit from, but do not use) this site than the people who DO use it. And as long as we continue to use it, the corporate suits can make more money via an increase in ad rates . . . .

[donovt]

Corporate suits pay their salaries, we do not.

[carolinadawg]

Not true. The content, provided by us, attracts readers, which attracts advertisers, which pays their salaries. Content = salary.

[donovt]

I'm sure their bosses (the ones who sign the checks) would disagree.

[zin1953]

If site traffic (i.e.: we who post and provide content, at least on the ChowHOUND side of things) declines, ad rates decline, revenues decline, and the bosses do not get their stock bonuses . . . .

[carolinadawg]

Not if they understand basic business and economic principles.

[donovt]

Here's the deal, I responded to someone who said "clearly more important to satisfy the corporate suits than the people who DO use it". My point is of course you satisfy the person who signs your pay check.

Not sure what line of work you're in, but I've never had a job where I was able to tell my bosses "no, I'm going to do it a different way than I've been instructed".

[psb]

>Not sure what line of work you're in, but I've never
>had a job where I was able to tell my bosses
>"no, I'm going to do it a different way than
>I've been instructed".
>
wow, maybe this was the CHOWHOUND ENGINEERING TEAM's "Charge of the Light Grey Brigade" moment.

[donovt]

Light grey brigade literally made me laugh out loud.

[zin1953]

LOL!

[carolinadawg]

Regardless, we (posters) provide the content that generates the money that enables the "suits" to write the checks. I would hope everyone, including the "suits" recognize that.

[zin1953]

Gee, I dunno . . . phrased like THAT, no -- but in EVERY job that I have ever had (and, FWIW, I'm 59 now and have been working since I was 16), my boss was willing to LISTEN to my idea if I thought I had a better one . . . and that includes sole proprietorships, family owned companies, and multi-million dollar corporations.

Maybe you just never tried?

[MacGuffin]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that this site deserves the element they're looking to attract. Boomers (1954 here) need not apply.

[GH1618]

Excuse me? I'm a "boomer" (1947) and I feel welcome here at the redesigned site.

[lcool]

born VE Day ,almost a boomer

and I'm OK with the redesign
my only objections were too much gray and size,contrast of type,since fixed

Do I like it,no.A habit thing,used to the old and lazy

[MacGuffin]

Yes, but you're already HERE, aren't you? I believe I mentioned the element they're looking to attract. And I don't see your posts getting yanked.

[lcool]

"And I don't see your posts getting yanked"
laughing hard at that
been around since the beginning,under an old user name,now this one with some long gaps

my replies enter the "Ether Triangle" ......frequently

To a degree I agree with your "looking to attract" remark.
But I think that's going on a lot damn near everywhere.

I think my replies addressing "the gray" have remained because I have been anal careful,correct and not alone.

[MacGuffin]

Well, this content no longer keeps an open tab of her profile page. Appropriately, I think the new format can best be described as "cheesy." Even though I didn't like the last "upgrade," I could live with it. The suits can have this one.

[StriperGuy]

Cheesy illegible abomination with blurry type and a user interface that looks like it was intended for 5 year olds.

The new design is so hard on the eyes that on my 22 inch monitor I find it almost illegible.

It literally give me a headache. WAY too much white space. No contract. Very little way to pic out what you want.

The use of the first sentence in someones post even when it is collapsed is VERY distracting.

You guys really blew it. FAIL,

[Michigan Mishuganer]

I really hate the new design. I look at CH pretty often & post occasionally, I use it more as a work of reference & prefered the old layout for searches . I use a PC, never a smart phone. there is too much blank space & it's hard to find posts I'm looking for.

[Gio]

While I'm not exactly Thrilled with this New Design, and after leaving the site and returning several times I have to say the Main issue for me is the "look" of a page. On the "Latest Discussion Page", the page I call the Main Board, the title of the threads is too large and too bold. The date, etc. is too small and too light. I really have a headache from trying to read light against dark and vice versa on other pages as well.

[Dustin_E]

I also hate it.

I feel like i'm looking at the site through a magnifying glass, that i can never get rid of.

surely there was a better way to make room for more ads (i assume this was the primary motivation for the redesign.)

reminds me a bit of the digg redesign...

[therealdoctorlew]

I have had sr citizen eyes since 4th grade. I used to be able to read this site on my desktop. I read some of this thread and gave up when my eyes started to hurt.

BuhBy Chowhound!

[magic]

Has anyone had issues with being kicked back to their profile page when in the middle of reading a thread??

What the???

[Ruth Lafler]

Yes. In fact, it just did it to me.

[DGresh]

Is it this? If so, apparently this is soon to be fixed.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/881558

[The Dairy Queen]

No, I don't think so. That person is complaining that they are being kicked into someone else's profile page. I think I'm being kicked back into my own.

Maybe.

~TDQ

[magic]

It seems you can be be kicked back to your own profile page or another member's profile page.

It happens when I expand on someone's name and my mouse cursor simply then hovers over that expanded name. I will be kicked to that person's profile page. Whoever it might be.

The point is, none of this should be happening. Seems to be a really huge bug. How this was missed is beyond me. Soooo easy to catch.

[DGresh]

Interesting; I just tried this on TDQ's (collapsed) post just above. I hovered over her name and I went to *her* profile page.

[magic]

Yes, it seems you will be kicked to the profile page of whichever member you have collapsed and hovered over - be it yours or someone elses.

My brains are hurting.

[The Dairy Queen]

Ok, yeah, it's happening to me when I'm reading a discussion and I click to open a previously-read post to re-read it or to reply to it... BUt, it doesn't happen all the time.

So, I guess it's probably the bug they've already identified and are fixing...

~TDQ

[magic]

In the meantime every time you expand a comment to read it you are kicked off the page.

YIKES.

It's akin to seasoning your food with pepper and sneezing boogers all over your food every time you go in for a bite.

[juliejulez]

I don't get kicked off when I expand a comment to read it.

[magic]

Perhaps this bug has been fixed?

Seems ok now that I'm home on a different PC. Was unbearable earlier.

[DGresh]

yes, they fixed that one. (Pretty quickly too)

[magic]

Yup. Happy about that.

[DGresh]

You actually get kicked off *only* when you click on the comment's user's name (not when you open up the comment by clicking on the "fragment" from the comment to the right of the poster's name)

[magic]

That's right.

That's what I was saying :) Apologies if I was unclear.

I certainly hope this is corrected soon.

[Cheese Boy]

Thanks for the clarification. Will click on the text from now on.

[The Dairy Queen]

Weird. I can't replicate it though. It just seems to happen randomly and I can't figure out what I did to make it happen...

~TDQ

[magic]

Now I've found you don't even need to "hover" over the expanded member's name.

Once you expand a name you are immediately kicked to someone's page regardess of where you then place your mouse cursor.

It does seem random, yes.

What a mess.

[MelMM]

I reported this same issue, and yeah, the solution is to click far over to the right, on that first line of text, and make sure you don't click on the username. I'm not crazy about it, because it really is not intuitive.

[magic]

Very unintuitive. I hope it's not a permanent feature.

I hope it has or is soon to be fixed.

Edit: It's been fixed!

[The Dairy Queen]

Yes, I've been kicked back to my profile when in the middle of reading (or maybe replying, I'm not honestly sure) to a discussion. I haven't really been able to discern a pattern or what triggers it, so I haven't mentioned it. I thought it was just me.

As far as constructive feedback:

1. Most important: please either darken or enlarge (or both) the text of the actual posts. It's too small and too monochromatic right now.

2. Please do a little something more to make new posts more conspicuous. When you're looking at your MyChow page it's great that the name of the category is red AND that there's the little arrow, but I think that's too subtle. Maybe at least make the arrow red?

And it's even more subtle when you're scanning the posts within a category--you don't even have the benefit of the category in red.

3. I'm not crazy about the "preview" of (collapsed) posts you've already read within a discussion because it makes it hard to identify the new posts, but I suppose I could live with it.

Maybe instead of having the "preview" of previously-read posts ever present, could you make the text appear if you hover over the collapsed post with your mouse?

4. Is there a bug with the editing feature right now? I can't seem to edit my posts once I exit the discussion... I like to have the freedom to edit my posts even after leaving the discussion. Sometimes I leave to go find a link to another discussion so I can edit that into my post, etc.

5. I don't mind the disappearing/reappearing link/flag/edit/reply, but I do worry how newbies will find them... I imagine I'll adapt.

I know some people probably worked really hard on this for six months. I don't mean to be negative and I hope I'm not coming across that way. I'm an old hound and new tricks come slowly to me.

Thank you!

~TDQ

[magic]

"3. I'm not crazy about the "preview" of (collapsed) posts you've already read within a discussion because it makes it hard to identify the new posts, but I suppose I could live with it. "

AGREED!

My eyes are excellent. No vision issues. It is simply tricky, as you suggest. Not sure we should have to live with it though. It should not be that way.

[DGresh]

I like the preview, if only because I have seen far too many "me too!" or "+1" comments that I had to make a decision as to whether it was worth opening the original one for. Minor thing, but I like the new way.

[Ruth Lafler]

Agreed. It's one of the few new "features" I like. Also, in a thread like this, where I (or someone I'm following) have made multiple posts, it lets me know *which* of the multiple posts the person is responding to without having to expand it.

[The Dairy Queen]

As I said, I could probably get used to the ever-present preview of previously-read posts within a discussion, but I'd like to see it be de-emphasized compared to the new posts within the discussion. Scrolling this thread in search of the new posts is a perfect example of why this matters.

Maybe make the text of the preview of collapsed/previously-read posts a lighter shade of gray? Or make the text appear only in mousing-over instead of being ever-present? Or, maybe just making the text of NEW posts bigger and/or darker would be sufficient emphasize new posts in comparison to the previously-read posts? NOt sure.

Not sure. But, it's not a deal-breaker for me.

~TDQ

[magic]

Exactly! The preivew is not my issue - it is how the previews make it very difficult to locate new posts.

The new posts just get lost in surrounding preview text that looks almost identical to the new post.

There is no visual cue to help find the new post.

[iluvcookies]

Yep... preview could be a really good thing if the color scheme was tweaked from this grey-on-grey look.

[JoanN]

I, too, like the preview and for the exact same reason. No more clicking just to read "+1," "Yum," or "Thanks." And I think that once a clearer distinction is made between read and unread posts, the previews will be much less distracting.

[will47]

I agree - the preview is one of the only things I do like about the new design. It gives you some context about the discussion (especially in cases where an ancient thread gets bumped) without making the unread content too long.

[meatme]

+1

[will47]

I agree with too narrow, too-large fonts, and too much wasted space.

If you want to make it more usable on mobile devices, why not do what most forums do, and present a different version to mobile devices? Maybe more people are visiting on these devices, but that doesn't mean that those of us on normal computers should have to suffer.

[Robert Lauriston]

They do present a different version on mobile devices. It's worse.

[Dave MP]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of the comments here. We're listening and working on some changes based on the most frequent and constructive feedback we're hearing. You'll be seeing adjustments in the next couple of days, and more over the next few weeks. That said, we are not planning on moving back to the old design. Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively.

The only thing I'd like to underscore is that we are listening, and it's a lot easier to hear feedback that is actionable and concrete. Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone.

Dave MP

[LindaWhit]

Can you give us any idea of what changes we can expect to see?

And wondering if this format was tested with frequent, long-time users. Or if it was web designers who thought this was a usable format.

[barryg]

I think they only tested it on iPads and IPhones.

[LindaWhit]

Which totally screws the long-time users who use laptops and/or desktops and put more detail into their posts. I can't see many doing that from an iPhone.

[jcattles]

The only time I access Chowhound on my phone is when we're on vacation & I need to look up a restaurant or thread I saved for our trip. And that is usually only once because it's so cumbersome to navigate I say forget it & do w/o the info. A dedicated app would solve that problem, while leaving the conventional website alone so those of us who use it the most can continue doing so.

[Breadcrumbs]

I have an ipad and I have the same issues w the new format on my ipad as I do on my macbook:

- grey on grey is simply unworkable. After 10 mins my eyes are tearing and I'm getting a headache - I don't otherwise have vision issues, don't require glasses.

- large font of headers and white space translates to minimimal relevant content on a page

- other font (eg poster's names) far too small

Irrespective of my ipad and smartphone experience though, it is neither practical nor realistic to compose COTM reviews, restauraunt reviews, trip reports and the like from a mobile device. While this re-launch was positioned as "maintaining the functionality that desktop users require" it is abundantly clear that the latter was simply not a priority, or a consideration.

What we have is a smart phone app that's passing itself off as a website. I keep looking for the option to select the "full website" version.

[magic]

I would click that option.

[Gabatta]

Even on my iPhone I prefer the old design

[scubadoo97]

Me too. I visit CH from both my home computer and phone.

There is nothing that I find better or more user friendly about the new design with either device.

[Quine]

I think we were just told, to like it or leave.

[LindaWhit]

Seems that way.

I mean, I *KNOW* they're busy. But a heads-up to the users to give us some idea of what's going to happen would help stave off the continual "this sucks, why did you change it, change it back!" comments.

It's a food message board. How about throwing us a little amuse bouche?

[Quine]

Basically, Some PTB decided that this is it and that's all. Now CH looks awful and is totally useless on my phone, I am a Android person. So will not be using it on my phone any more. On my laptop, I have a width of 11 inches on my screen, and the subject/content is only using 5.5 of that space at 100% zoom? Why? And it is not ads that I have blocked, I checked it out in an incognito window.

Others have outright said this "great new design" is unbearable enough that they are taking a break or finding a new site (Yep, I have that new site already picked out). And that is just those of us who care enough to even comment, the lurkers or the vacillaters are just going to slide out the door.

[juliejulez]

I don't agree that that's what we were told. Change is inevitable, on any site. And, I agree that feedback like "THIS NEW DESIGN SUCKS, BRING BACK THE OLD DESIGN" and the like is not helpful. He acknowledged our complaints, and said they are working on addressing them.

Also, the changes don't happen overnight, and I personally would rather they be working on making the fixes, versus responding to hundreds of messages on the message board. Responding to all these posts and giving continual updates would be a full time job in itself.

[LindaWhit]

I don't think anyone is saying respond to every post. But Dave MP wrote an update post saying they were reading our comments and addressing them. Why not throw a few lines in there about what they were focusing on right now?

[lcool]

New site ,do I actually like it?NO
Navigation ,all is fine on the desk top,tablet and laptop

THE GRAY ON GRAY COLOUR,trimmed in gray is an eye sore,solved for the moment.CH through rose coloured glasses,who woulda thunk it.My Vizslas and Chesapeake Bay Retriever are not interested in who is or is not blameless for mixed messages sent wearing shooting glasses in the house.

Does it matter? NOT A WHIT I'll get used to it etc just like every other thing that mucks with my habits.It doesn't seem any harder than my electric bill,now two pages instead of one WITH LESS STATISTICAL INFORMATION to make room for 2/3 of a page of propaganda AND PICTURES.

[Ruth Lafler]

Okay, to start with the most obvious -- changes that have no particular point/functionality:

1. having to mouse over the reply, etc. links
2. changing the specific "boards" to the meaningless "categories"

Things that have negative functionality:

1. having the link to the "latest post" rather than the "first unread post" -- I don't know if this is fixable, but it's completely worthless as-is, since there are unread posts scattered up and down the page. Since you've added a "sort by number of posts" functionality that's going to encourage people to add to existing long threads, it becomes even more unworkable.

[calumin]

DaveMP -- for what it's worth, I do think that despite the deluge of (mostly negative) feedback you've been receiving, you can make the site better than it was before if you implement the changes that are being discussed.

It's remarkable how much agreement you see in these threads about things that need to be improved & things that were better before.

There is one fundamental issue I have with your approach, which is the idea that you need to change the non-mobile UX to make it better for mobile devices. I actually really dislike your mobile implementation, and I really disliked it the last time you updated your mobile implementation -- because both times you seemed to actively discourage the ability to scour through lots of content very quickly. You seem to have translated that concept to the non-mobile site too (e.g. so few topics on a single page).

To me, that is the main thing to which if you don't fix pretty quickly, I will likely lose interest because of the usability problems that brings. A lot of the other things (e.g. the mouse-over requirement on Reply / Edit etc) are things I don't really get or like, but can learn to live with.

[Robert Lauriston]

Second on the bad mobile-ization. My Droid has a good browser that's perfectly capable of navigating the standard site.

[scubadoo97]

Never had a problem with an iPhone either.

[Tom P]

Dave -

I think it would help those of us voicing legitimate problems to explain what the reasoning was behind this redesign. Is there a place we could go to read the thinking behind the 'Why'? And apologies if you have pointed people to that elsewhere.

[MacGuffin]

Good luck getting a straight answer.

[Steve Green]

"That said, we are not planning on moving back to the old design. Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively.

The only thing I'd like to underscore is that we are listening, and it's a lot easier to hear feedback that is actionable and concrete. Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone."

Sure you're listening. Based on the overwhelming negative responses, if you really were listening, you would go back to the old design, at least until you have addressed the issues that so severely affect usability for so many. BTW, I'd love to know what alternate universe your beta testers came from, if they thought this new "design" was a good idea.

That said, the one thing I like is the first sentence (or partial sentence) being readable in collapsed posts. It's a timesaver in deciding which posts to uncollapse.

The things I hate (and this is by no means complete, as I consider the site to be so unusable that I haven't used it enough since the change to get really familiar):
-- Enormous thread titles
-- Gray-on-gray
-- Small text in posts (and even smaller when posting!)
-- All that extra padding around open posts
-- Getting rid of the red "NEW" button and replacing it with the stupid curved arrow. So unintuitive. As others have said, if you have to explain features in an interface, there's a problem. The "NEW" button took up too many pixels?

Some of the other changes mentioned sound like terrible ideas as well, but until some of the basic problems are fixed, I'm gone.

[magic]

I'm selling T-shirts: Free the "New" Icon.

[Tom P]

Beautiful, Steve. I also like the 'first sentence (or partial sentence) being readable in collapsed posts. It's a timesaver in deciding which posts to uncollapse.' That is a good addition.

I also agree with all you don't like.

I guess what is a bummer about this is that, clearly, whomever is in charge made the decision to try to get new readers/users/whatever regardless of how many stalwarts they lose. Apple does this at times, my NPR station just did this, making wild new changes no one likes and their response being, 'We are catering to new people, screw you people who have supported us for so long." Chowhound seems to be doing it, too.

As a long time supporter and poster, I sincerely am not sure I can hang around if the threads continue to look as ridiculous as they do now with huge letters and so few posts per page. It's insulting.

[dmjordan]

What I don't understand is how this will keep new users? Won't they be annoyed by the same things that we are on this site without even knowing what the site was previously like? I can't speak for how it works on a tablet (come Christmas day I will!) but I visit Chowhound on my iMac and iPhone and I prefer the old version.

[Jay F]

>>what is a bummer about this is that, clearly, whomever is in charge made the decision to try to get new readers/users/whatever regardless of how many stalwarts they lose.<<

It's a tried and true policy at CBS to alienate your existing viewers because you have some pie-in-the-sky notion that by doing so, you'll attract new viewers. And then when you recognize the strategy doesn't work, you make your program (or, in this case, website) so awful, whoever's left watching it is glad when it's finally canceled (cf. As the World Turns, Guiding Light).

But there's not a finite number of spaces available on the internet, CBS, so your applying this policy here is even stupider than on TV.

[Phil Ogelos]

"Thanks to all who numbered their thoughtful responses and are working with us to improve the experience for everyone."

#1: What does "numbered their ... responses" mean?
#2: What qualifies as "working with [you] to improve ...", as opposed to working against?
#3: What does "Our goal is to make improvements on what you see here more frequently moving forward, working iteratively" mean in proper English?

[magic]

So anyone that didn't number their thoughts is an a$$hole??

Or just not a good mindreader?.......

[emily]

Please revert to the old format while you make fixes (which must be coming because there are WAY too many complaints). The site now causes eye strain.

[MelMM]

I am running across a bug - or at least I assume it's a bug - when I'm reading a thread with collapsed posts and I want to expand one that is collapsed. When I click on the post, instead of expanding it, the entire thread will close and I'm being taken back to the page I was on before (the list of threads).

[kengk]

Click over to right side of the preview line.

[Ruth Lafler]

One more thing -- count me among the people who think "catagories" is dumb. Isn't "recipes" a category? Isn't "videos" a category? Isn't "blogs" a category? What makes the things in "categories" catagories? They're message boards! So why don't you say so?!

[LindaWhit]

+1 Really - WHY make a change when it was completely unnecessary and misleading?

[Tom P]

I love Chowhound. I am not adverse to change, at all. But this looks like it was designed for 3rd graders. Are we all that lowest common denominator that we need such large print, yet so many things hidden? I loved how when I came to chowhound, the boards I used most were right at the top. And you've hidden the top threads on each board. Yet everything is now so big you can't fit many things on the page so everything is not as accessible as it used to be. This is a design to have to suffer to get used to rather than lifting the site to a new level.

[jcattles]

If there was a like button for this post, I'd like it 100 times. :) Especially the last line.

[shaebones]

Me three. Hate it. Every "improvement" is painful. Please stop it.

[TeacherFoodie]

It is much easier to read on my iPhone than before, but I agree with what other hounds are saying here. I truly hope that Dave will look at makes some changes (or "unchanges") and make the site more friendly for the hounds that use it frequently.

[The Dairy Queen]

Hi Dave, aside from reading the tiny little date stamp to the right of the red sticky topics, how do we know if there's a new post in there? Blue room posted the January COTM nominations thread after the release and I only noticed because I happened to see the topic bouncing around on the chowhound home page.

Thank you,

~TDQ

[jen kalb]

@TDQ I think its the little arrow next to the no of posts. Much less intuitive than a NEW marker. I think they have a lot of work to do getting those very important stickies up there again - you should not have to click through two levels to get to them each time.

[The Dairy Queen]

Pardon my (perpetually acute) confusion, but if you go to the Home Cooking category, you'll see two red topics pinned near the top there:

QUICK LINKS: Cookbook and Dish of the Month 1d

FAQ: Guidelines for the Home Cooking Board Aug 29, 2012

There is no "number of posts" or little arrow there as there is for regular posts (am I overlooking something????)... Just the titles of the links and the tiny little time stamp indicating the last update off to the right.

So, unless you're constantly clicking on these red "pinned" links to see if there's anything new in there OR paying attention to the tiny little time stamp off to the right, how do you know there's anything new in there to look at?

~TDQ

[jen kalb]

thats right. it takes a lot of action to get access to the actual threads which is definitely not going to encourage maximum participation. Unlike the stickies on other boards, which are not interactive and do not change much, this one is highly important and needs to be bigger and show activity openly, as before

[Jacquilynne]

We've changed the focus of those sticky posts to reference information and relatively static links to things, rather than ongoing discussions. We wanted to still provide links to the Cookbook and Dish of the Month thread in someplace people could always find them, but the threads where the discussion is happening will be floating on the boards, not stickied up top.

[The Dairy Queen]

Oh, okay, somehow that got lost on me. So, I guess in the case of COTM and HCDOM maybe the coordinator could post in the current month's main thread that the nominations thread for next month is up to alert people?

~TDQ

[jen kalb]

I guess the feedback that you are getting is that the approach is not fully worked through and will probably reduce participation. given the activity levels on the board, the threads can float out of view and get lost unles htey are more prominently placed or highlighted. It is substantively different than all the rest of the stickies (I agree that the de-emplhasis of the rest is a good idea)

[iluvcookies]

1. It is very confusing to determine what threads have been read and where there are new posts. A "new" icon would be more user friendly than the arrow or the shades of grey.
2. Font in reply box is too small and serif (in IE9, anyway)
3. Font for thread titles and time of last reply is way too big, while font for author and date started is way too small.
4. The light grey font colors are very difficult to read---nearly no contrast on the white or grey background.
5. I do not find the navigation any easier than the last design--too many clicks to get to the boards I want to read.
6. Avatars only appear on the top level posts... why? I love seeing the avatars!
I am sure that a lot of hard work went into these changes, however it does not seem like many of the avid posters here are happy with the changes (including me). I hope that the powers that be consider the opinions of the long time posters and tweak this new design to truly be user friendly. Otherwise the content may suffer.

[juliejulez]

OK, here's my thoughts after actually using the site for a bit. I am an admin on another non-cooking, and not nearly as active site that just underwent a design, so I'm especially aware of how easy some things are (or aren't) to change.

Overall, I don't mind the new design. The "unread posts" color thing doesn't bother me (ie the two different greys). I also like the "hover over" feature to reply to a post, and the "teaser lines". I also have found it to be easier to follow the threads that have a lot of "sub threads" going on, as there appears to be more steps for replies (I hope that makes sense).

Here's what I think should be changed/improved upon:

-As already mentioned numerous times, it would be nice to see more threads on each page. I would think that just decreasing the font size of the thread titles would allow for this, and should be an easy fix.

-I also miss having the "day" dividers. Not really applicable on the very busy boards like Home Cooking, but useful on boards like my local Mountain States board that only get a couple posts a day. That way you can see if a thread is days old, without having to rely on looking at the date.

-Also as already mentioned, the font color of the grey is not good. I have excellent vision, and am using a wide screen monitor, and it causes eye-strain even for me. A simple change to black would alleviate this problem.

-Another already mentioned, the font size in this reply box is too small. It is causing eye-strain as I type this reply.

-I really really miss the "reply to original post" button at the bottom of the page.

Otherwise, the rest of the changes are fine and doable, at least for me. The only issues really are aesthetic ones, for me anyway.

[John Francis]

Looks like the design is already being tweaked a bit, but it's still wasteful of space and my patience. With the narrow type field and large-font headers, most topic headers run to two lines and some to three. The line breaks work against quick intelligibility and slow down reading.

[linguafood]

another shitty bug is when one starts typing a reply, it's written over whomever you're replying to, making it illegible.

the fact that one has to scroll to the top of the page to reply to the OP?

please. you got a lot of work on your hands.

[davis_sq_pro]

Not sure what you mean by "it's written over whomever you're replying to, making it illegible." If I hit the reply button everything below it scrolls down, and a reply box pops up. Similar to how it worked before, although the fonts don't look as nice.

Actually the new reply box has a big benefit from my point of view: The old system's dynamic reply box would disappear if I accidentally hit the back button for whatever reason. This caused me to occasionally lose a large post I'd been working on for a while. The new one sticks around if you go back and then forward again, thereby preventing at least some forms of user frustration.

[linguafood]

ah, ok. it disappears now once one starts typing. the first reply i wrote today was writing over the gray text "replying to....", and it looked like letter salad. sorry. i guess that's been fixed now.

still hate the overall design, but I'm clearly not alone in that. i'll wait and see what (if anything) you fix in the next few days.

sorry it's so unpopular '-(

[linguafood]

PS: and it doesn't change the fact that, in order to reply to the OP, one has to go to the top by using the 'go to top' button.

why not include both options "reply & reply to OP" in the box?

[C. Hamster]

Dave,

I'm sorry but I agree with all the points made here about the size, greys, wasted space and difficulty of navigation.

Please reconsider some of the design choices you have made.

[bsims76]

I'm sorry, but the new design is just awful. Way too much wasted space, less content presented per page on a PC, and everything, from the font choices to the color scheme makes it extremely fatiguing on the eyes.

Many people will bitch any time what they are used to changes, but in this case, it's not just that. It's become significantly less convenient to use on a PC, which is the only way I, and I imagine most people, will actually provide content. I know mobile is the new "thing", but people aren't going to be typing any detailed posts on a phone or tablet. Driving away the primary vehicle for people to provide this is going to kill the site.

[lynnlato]

It has a dated style appearance, as opposed to a more modern updated look. Is downdating a word? But some of the new features are nice.

[JMF]

This is so poorly designed that after just a few minutes I am getting a headache from eye strain. I think that the time I spend on CH is going to drop radically.

[davis_sq_pro]

Agreed. My eyes are actually aching from looking at this. Way too many shades of gray! The main Chow site is actually fairly well designed -- not sure why they felt the need to mess with contrast so much on this one.

[HillJ]

I'm going to give the CH Engrs. time to work thru the feedback and spend my limited CH time watching: Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee. I see no point in hammering the same well points made already over and over.

See you in a week!

[JMF]

Absolutely horrible. Hard on the eyes. Poorly designed. Ugly.

[goodhealthgourmet]

Okay, I tried. I really did. I popped back on a few times last night and now this morning, and I just can't. It hurts my eyes and there's nothing intuitive about the functionality. Plus, the post column is much too narrow, and it looks like it was just plunked down in the middle of a design created on an entirely different platform. There's absolutely no continuity between this part and the rest of the clutter bordering it, and it's all just a clunky mess to my eye. If the site had looked like this when I first stumbled upon it years ago I wouldn't have bothered sticking around.

I know you all worked on this for a long time so I hate to trash your effort, but I'll be taking a vacation from Hounding for now...all the while hoping this new design goes the way of the last one so I can get back to enjoying it & participating.

[hbg1]

I miss the separation by day on the boards pages. There are some boards with less activity that I catch up on every few days rather than daily, and I liked being able to easily see how far back I'm looking. Since I may not open any of the posts as I scan the board, I often can't tell by color (dark/light gray) where I left off. I realize you have the date of the last post listed for each one, but I am finding it much harder to find the spot where I left off if I have to calculate the date and watch for it, since the day of the week is no longer displayed anywhere, and all the posts are running together.

This is a case where I'd rather see some extra space taken up for the benefit of clarity of the posts.

(My very first reactions were FONT IS TOO BIG, where is the "new" icon, and too much space is being wasted, but those have been thoroughly covered by everyone else. I'm trying to get used to the light/dark gray differences but it's definitely a big adjustment.)

[SnackHappy]

But they're not boards anymore, they're "categories". Urgh! I guess that's yet another way to dilute CH into Chow. I wouldn't be surprised if, before too long, the term Chowhound were completely eliminated from this site.

Right now, I'm only following this thread to see what will happen with the new design. I can't be bothered to deal with this horrible new interface.

[davis_sq_pro]

I like the link at the top with "latest post," but you need to go a LOT further with it. Unfortunately, if you click it and there are some "older" posts than the "newest" further up, you miss posts. Please, please, please, make it float down the lefthand side of the screen so it can be used to navigate ALL of the posts since the user's last visit to the thread. This would be a huge upgrade.

[LindaWhit]

As I've repeatedly said - the "Latest Post" needs to actually be "First Unread" for that particular User.

Otherwise, "Latest Post" is completely useless.

[hyperbowler]

+1

[harryharry]

I like the new design - though I would agree that I'd like to see more postings on each page - there is an awful lot of blank space. It makes things jump to the next page very quickly when you are just browsing the recent posts...

I used to go to the bottom of the page and scroll and read my up.

[Cinnamonster]

The topic's font is overly large, and the board it belongs to is a bit small. Why change the old font proportions dramatically? Harder to skim multiple thread titles and harder to try mentally filtering the topics on the main chowhound page.
Also hate that there's less topics per page.

The color scheme and other graphics are alright. I currently feel indifferent, but will probably warm to them.

[weezieduzzit]

I tried the site on my ipod touch this morning (the only mobile I use,) to see if the experience was better for me than on my laptop. It's not. (And I don't really contribute content of any length on my ipod on any site, I would never type up a restaurant review or even a recipe on it, for example, so the experience on an actual computer and not a device is far more important to me.)

I thought maybe I was just tired last night and that's why it was causing eye strain but now it's morning and I'm well rested with a cup of coffee in me and it's still really unpleasant. (I'm really trying to give it a chance here... but I really really think it's awful.)

I'm not trying to be rude by saying this but it reminds me of the early very unsophisticated message boards of the AOL era... and there are good reasons they don't look or operate like that any longer.

A roll back would be a good idea.

[jcattles]

I'm usually one to give changes a chance, but this new format is really horrible. All the different shades of gray really do give me a headache. I HATE, hate, hate the large font on the topics screen. I rarely search past the first page on any topic and this will make it worse. I find it hard to find the new replies on a board, the colors blend too much. The reply font size in incredibly small and hard to read. I miss the "new" bubble for threads that I'm watching.
What I wish Chowhound had done is added a like button for posts I like but don't want to comment on. Add an option to be removed from a thread I no longer want updates on.
I don't know who these beta testers are, but they didn't do a very good job. Chowhound should have recruited those of us who are most active.
Poor showing Chowhound IT dept. If you're not going to make it better, at least don't make worse.

[DiningDiva]

This redesign may work on an iPad or iPhone but it is WRETCHED in the Droid environment. I can not pinch down the excessive size on anything which makes reading and replying almost impossible. Also ehere is the link to the profile page in the mobile version?

This "update" is hideous and unusable. My boss would have taken discplinary action against me if I released something as poorly executed as this redesign. It has no redeeming features. CH is following in the footsteps of the Food Network and dumbing the site down beyond belief.

[JoanN]

To get to your profile page in mobile from from a discussion thread you now have to click on the menu (three horizontal red bars to the left of the word "CHOW"). I much preferred being able to access my profile page directly since I do it so often.

[DiningDiva]

Thanks JoanN, I tried that this morning but didn't see the link to the profile page.

I just checked my smartphone again and clicking on the 3 bars doesn't yield a link to the profile page on the Droid platform. There are links to everything *except* the profile page :-(

[JoanN]

Don't you see your name at the top in blue? Click on that and it takes you to your profile page. At least, it does on my iPhone.

[DiningDiva]

Ah, ha...found it. I've had some problems pinching down the page size to fit my phone screen and it wasn't visible. Thanks.

[TeRReT]

try clicking on your name in the top left of the 3 bar menu, i believe that will yield your profile

er i am slow to reply, my bad

[DiningDiva]

Yep, found it. Thanks.

[Quine]

I know that each and every Site design change that Chow-CH has done, in the 6 years I've been a member has met with multiple amounts of dislike. This is now the worst.

Instead of making an Chow app for smart phones and tablets, you have made the site itself an app that fails quite badly. I just tried this on my phone and just like here, it fails. It is TOO BIG on my phone. Everything about it is much worst, now. I've been sliding away from CH, more and more this past year, due to a few factors, most editorial, but now this "design" shows that Bling is now where CH is headed and content is going out the door.

[zin1953]

>>> I know that each and every Site design change that Chow-CH has done, in the 6 years I've been a member has met with multiple amounts of dislike. This is now the worst. <<<

Agreed. however, since nothing ever changed from those changes, I'm confident nothing will ever change here . . . god forbid, one admits to making a(n expensive programming) mistake -- fear of the pink slip trumps all.

[jen kalb]

on my new Android, the site is much more accessible with this change - it can more quickly be properly sized and is locked in a viewable position and doesnt float right and left, However, following threads and moving around my boards (sorry, "categories" - I guess the PTB thought that "board" was an outmoded term - is much less intuitive

It seems like all these issues like sizing for the different ways the user accesses should be dealt with by the site software designers - I would question why WE should have to address this on our individual devices. Its not like the tablet is the only way Chowhounds view this, at all.....

[LindaWhit]

The lack of any real beta testing (or responses from those who beta tested, if they exist) and the very few responses from Chow managers or product team members regarding these "downgrades" is rather telling.

You're going for the quick-hit folks vs. the long-time posters with your redesign. Quick hits come and go; the long-time posters are part of your bread and butter. Those long-time posters (me) will come here less frequently because it's just too unwieldy to use.

[zin1953]

Can anyone say "New Coke"?

[Foody4life]

+1000 LindaWhit

... after 200+ comments, it's apparent that long time Chowhound users would like the site developers to PYKAG!

[Foody4life]

edit (since EDIT still won't work IE9/Win7 laptop): 300+ comments.

[Foody4life]

BUG report for mods:

using IE9/Win7 laptop. Edit button functions only while still active in the current thread. Example, I post a reply, the reply appears in the current thread and I can click Edit to make a change. The Edit box opens and the reply is available for editing as normal.

If I navigate back (out of the thread) and click to re-open the thread, the Edit button does not function for my most recent post(s). All within the two hour timeframe.

[masha]

Hate it. I suspect that I'll become a much less frequent reader/poster. May still post when I have a question that needs answering but much less likely to contribute to threads started by others because the functionality is so much diminished, for all the reasons others have mentioned.

[ChancesR]

Unappealing new look. Difficult and confusing to look at. Please consider tweaking and/or going back to the old look.

[Uncle Bob]

Thought I would sleep on it....see if It was all better in the AM....

NOPE!!! Still Totally and completely Sucks!!!

How sad......

[Gio]

Just wondering where the Report button is now residing. Not that I'm about to report anyone...

[HillJ]

lol...that's our FLAG button...and when opened the Flag comment box resides very close to your reply button....so keep that in mind, Gio.

[Gio]

Ha... thanks HJ. Me thinks I've been reported more than just a few times already...

[JoanN]

The Report button is now the Flag button just to the left of the Reply arrow. Brings up the same dialog box.

[TorontoJo]

Is anyone else seeing the irony in the fact that younger posters are saying the design must be for old people and older posters are saying the design must be for young people?

This tells me that it's un-readable for everyone.

[Phil Ogelos]

P.S. Just now noticing that the "Edit" window has been removed. That's a [i]real[/i] mistake.

[Veggo]

You can still edit for 2 hours.

[Veggo]

The edit icon appears, but isn't working.

[HillJ]

I just opened my last comment and the Edit option is listed. Try re-opening your comment, Phil O.

[Phil Ogelos]

Is it possible to give 'hounds the option of linking the device they use to the layout(s) offered? Such that tablet users are given the most appropriate page design; laptop users another.
I consult Chowhound most regularly on a large, desktop screen, and so the new design appears quite wrong: wrought as though I the reader were a tall, skinny model (which you have to admit is not quite right for a food site) rather than a plump & happy gourmand.

[TorontoJo]

I'm really frustrated that the board pages only show 20 threads now. I visit the my home board several times a day, if only for a few seconds to see what's new. I do a quick scan of threads with new posts to see if there is one that I'm interested in opening. With only 20 threads showing, I now have to navigate to a second or even third page to see which threads have new content. I am much less likely to navigate to that second page and will therefore miss out on content.

The font size and egregious use of white space harkens back to the last major redesign -- which was modified quickly to address these exact same concerns.

On the opposite end of the font size spectrum is how ridiculously small you've made the user names in the new posts. I realize that CBS is catering to casual users who couldn't care less about who posted something, but it really matters to me (and I'm guessing to the many long time posters). I've gotten to know the posters on the boards I frequent and I know who's posts are more valuable to me than others.

While I see value in seeing a preview of older posts in a thread, it's VERY difficult to distinguish new posts in all that sea of text.

I'll just leave with these parting thoughts: Chowhound gets visits because it provides thoughtful and knowledgable content provided by regular posters. Redesigning the site for lurkers and one-hit users and ignoring the needs of the regular posters may increase traffic in the short term, but in the long term, you will see a decrease in participation from regular users and therefore a decrease in the useful content that draws eyes here in the first place.

[LindaWhit]

THIS BEARS REPEATING:

Chowhound gets visits because it provides thoughtful and knowledgable content provided by regular posters. Redesigning the site for lurkers and one-hit users and ignoring the needs of the regular posters may increase traffic in the short term, but in the long term, you will see a decrease in participation from regular users and therefore a decrease in the useful content that draws eyes here in the first place.

[masha]

Linda, you said much better what I tried to say in my post. Agree completely.

[LindaWhit]

Well, it was TorontoJo who said it. I just copy/pasted what was written in her post. Because it's very pertinent, IMO.

[MarkhamDee]

+1,000,000. THIS. Chowhound is one of my trusted online sources for all things food, because I recognise the user names of regular posters - and after years of reading their posts, I respect what they have to say.

Those user names are a very useful part of how I navigate if I've been offline for a few days, and I'm really disappointed that someone feels the need for valuable information like that to just disappear from view.... I wish that the Powers That Be had considered consulting with the user community before making such sweeping modifications.

[Buckethead]

I haven't spent much time on the site since the redesign, normally I check in a few times a day but I have been reading this thread for only a few minutes and my head already hurts, even before I started typing this reply in what appears to be a freaking 5-point font. So for me, it's already reduced my traffic in the short term.

[dmjordan]

I, too, am annoyed that there are so few threads per page. Even worse is that when I open the home page on my cell phone, I only get the 20 threads without ANY means to go to page 2. You only get one page!!!

Ditto just about every other complaint here, especially taking away the old "NEW" icon.

[Ruth Lafler]

People who post on the site should be treated like customers/clients. After all, we contribute financially to the site in two ways:

1. We click on the site. We click on the site a lot. Those clicks generate revenue for the site.

2. We provide content FOR FREE that the site then uses to generate revenue. According to the stats posted yesterday, almost 80 percent of the visits to the site are to the chowhound message boards, not to the portions of the site created by paid staff.

So why aren't we being treated like valued customers or clients?

They say they asked people to test the site, but apparently no one who is an actual regular user participated. Or at least, no one who will admit to it. I know I responded to the last request they sent out for people to give opinions on the site and got no response.

[Ruth Lafler]

Oh, and BTW, when my company spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on carpeting and then found that the pattern was giving their employees headaches, nausea and eyestrain -- the exact same things the posters here are complaining about -- they RIPPED IT OUT.

[mcf]

While it's still not ideal, have you not noticed how much less awful the appearance is today? It's not as if users are not being heard and responded to.

Unlike carpeting, software can be tweaked, full ripout isn't required.

[LindaWhit]

Agreed on the tweaking vs. full rip-out.

The claim is "The design that you are seeing is the product of 6 months of work and planning. We've conducted user testing with both casual and long-term users"........

and yet NOT ONE regular/long-time user has spoken up about being part of this user testing.

If beta testing by regular and long-time users had *actually* been done, perhaps so much tweaking wouldn't be necessary.

[mcf]

I'm in total agreement on those points, and it really does lead me to believe that we non mobile users (or those of us with older eyeballs) are not seen as a desirable nor important demographic to TPTB.

Given our spending ability and intense interest in food, that may be unwise, but it's their web site, and if they're trying to make us feel less than wanted or welcome, this was a very strong salvo. :-/

[LindaWhit]

Ding, ding, ding! On all points!

[Ruth Lafler]

The tweaking has improved it, but it's still far from ideal. In other words, they're willing to modify their decision to go with a gray on gray color scheme, but not willing to admit it was a mistake and junk it.

[mcf]

I don't want them wasting time on mea culpas, I want them to quietly slave away and fix it. I think their efforts to do so are clear admissions of error.

[Ruth Lafler]

Nope. They're willing to admit they got the details wrong, but so far unwilling to admit the whole concept is wrong. Among other things, they could restore the old design while they work out the kinks and actually do some real beta testing (the fact that they've fixed some things that were both obvious and easy to fix means they clearly did NOT do that) on the new one.

Also, they could do some serious thinking about which parts of the new design are good functional design and which are attempts to be "cool" and "contemporary" that are really only important to (1) programmers who like to play with code, and (2) people who have to make presentations about their cool new site design to their bosses.

[MacGuffin]

I couldn't agree with you more. The first format was so easy to read and use, the one prior to this was worse but I could deal with it, and this is some designer's idea of what's best for us...the IT equivalent of the labels on the cans of generic food. Unfortunately, their bosses are just as clueless as they are. Reminds me of the all-but-unreadable new GMail.

[mariacarmen]

exactly. it seems like it has become a point of pride.

[Quine]

Right now, I a, looking at 4.5 inches of thread in ocean of wasted snowblind Blank screen (available screen width for me is 12 in. So this is a good idea how? And on my android phone, it is so big and you have to tap dance (literally) to try to size down *each* page you want to read, it's a total fail. Hope they didn't pay those beta testers too much. Ah heck, they were probably only the "moderators" anyway.

As for the fact we (CH) provide 80% of the traffic and CONTENT on Chow.com, is VERY reverent because half the stuff in Chow, is a rewrite of some CH thread!

[MacGuffin]

THANK YOU.

[Gio]

This is a test...
I can't see how to add a comment without replying to someone. So we still reply to the OP, as I appear to be doing now, and our post will then go to the "end of the line"?

ETA.. OK it does...

[ibew292]

Very hard to read if you older...You must be going after the Hipseters

[GH1618]

Do you mean "hipsters"? There're plenty of old hipsters where I live. We zoom on our iPads to read small fonts.

[ibew292]

I never had any trouble before on my Samsung Tab 10.1 reading the posts. Now I do. Glad they are improving it for you small screen ipad people. Hipseters was supposed to be a slam. Sorry you didn't get it.

[HillJ]

If older comments left in partial vew and latest comments fully opened are going to be the same font/color a thread that exceeds say 20 comments the thread starts to appear visually confusing and mashed together. In the light of day, with morning eyes on, the thread is too wordy visually. Consider a color diff btwn older and new comments. But if you took the partial comment on older remarks away every long thread under this redesign would be easier on the eyes. Right now it looks like cartoon caption bubbles floating on white space.

[mselectra]

Yes, agreed. If going to have first line of collapsed comments (which I don't care about one way or the other), for now it's too hard to distinguish from new comments. Does seem very busy and messy.

[thimes]

agreed with the whole font size issue. Way too much blank space and reduced content.

I REALLY hope this wasn't an "increased page view" decision for increased ad dollars that plagued web design back in the earlier days. If so that person needs to be let go.

[Peripatetic]

Seriously? SERIOUSLY? The new layout is a disaster:

- needlessly excessive use of white space

- fonts less readable

- indentation / threading less apparent

- information density needlessly diminished by at least 50%

- count of posts in thread and time of posting comically exaggerated.

Some of this might be understandable if the appearance was actually improved, but it's almost an excursion into early (pre-2006) CH history. Very disappointed that it now requires twice as much effort to engage the site content.

[millygirl]

+1 The new design layout, colors, font size, etc all of it is one epic fail.

Very disappointed.

[jen kalb]

yes the look does hark back a bit to the look of the early chowhound threads - not a good thing

[Frizzle]

A couple of things on an iPhone.

1) I think someone posted already but there is no way to see more than five pages in a category. This is a pain as now the COTM and DOTM threads aren't sticky.
2) I'm trying to find threads that I have clicked the star button on but I can't find them. Am I missing something?

[AntarcticWidow]

I like that you can easily link to the latest post instead of having to hunt for it. I also kind of liked the preview of the posts and being able to expand them if I want to continue reading. It would be nice though, to be able to collapse any particular post as well.

[MplsM ary]

Ooh! collapse a post would be great!

[LindaWhit]

The problem with Latest Post is that is the LAST post - and if there were 30 replies prior to that last post? You still have to scroll back to find those open, unread posts.

But I agree on the "Collapse Read" button. They *used* to have that - but for whatever reason, too it away. :-/

[Ruth Lafler]

Seriously. That "Latest Post" link is useless!

[AntarcticWidow]

Gaaah, you are absolutely right! I should be flogged :-P

[soypower]

I'm assuming the inch of dead space on each side of my laptop screen is there so that it will fill the screen on a smart phone. But that begs the question, why wouldn't you just create an app or a dedicated site for mobile users? Was mobile.chowhound.com taken? This is asinine. It doesn't include unique usability features in a mobile environment nor is it appealing on my laptop.

I've never enjoyed the CH mobile experience on my iPhone, but that was fine because I could read there and then save my replies for my laptop. Now you've ruined the laptop experience too. Thanks a lot.

[Frizzle]

I only use an iPhone (laptop died recently) and the new design is an improvement on the old for me. I agree with you that it would have been far simpler to create a mobile version and not change the existing version so much. An app would have been even better and I would have happily paid for it.

[barryg]

It is not difficult these days to make "responsive design" that will fill a notebook/desktop screen but adapt to mobile and tablet screens. Seems like all that would to change is width and font size.

[soypower]

While it is highly unlikely that anyone in Engineering will care, Adobe InDesign CS6 makes this ridiculously easy to do. I sat through a demo that took about 15 minutes to produce a page that fit on 3 different screens - laptop, tablet and smartphone. Maybe the designers need to upgrade to CS6?

[Robert Lauriston]

The tool hardly matters, the main problems are in the CSS.

That said, InDesign's not an appropriate tool for prototyping a database-driven web application.

[soypower]

I defer to your understanding of the technical matters involved. I'm still perplexed at the decision to keep one site for all users though. It just makes no sense since almost all other websites I frequent have either a mobile app or a dedicated mobile site. The ones that don't have either of those, format their page for desktop users. This is the first one I've seen that does it ass-backwards.

[psb]

I see some people are positive on the first line being displayed in COMPACT mode. I think that is a GIANT mistake too ... in a long thread such as this, the extra text makes it much more computationally expensive to notice short new replies which are expanded.

having a "global" piece of data like a subject field be visible in a preview mode may make sense but displaying the first line does not serve a purpose ... the point of the preview is to give you a "hint" whether to bother to click or not. something like a subject line in an email may give you a hint what the message is about. the first lime doesnt really do that ... it doesnt signal enough about the continuation. it doesnt add much more than the name of the author.

i'm still laughing about this thread. 75%. about 25% sad.

[DiningDiva]

I seriously dislike the first line of the collapsed posts being displayed. It is messy, intrusive, busy, distracting and confusing.

[Cheese Boy]

I agree, but be reminded that that line would be displayed anyhow. A username and timestamp would be displayed. The designers now added text to the right of it, that's all. (I'm not saying that I like it).

[mariacarmen]

yes, it would be, but it was distinguishable from the text in other expanded, unread posts. now it's not. (and i know you're not saying you like it.

[emglow101]

You shouldn't be reading Chowhound on your mobile phone while driving.Is this why the text is so big.It's lame. Save posting for when you get home on your laptop.OMG!!, I just rear ended somebody.

[fame da lupo]

I hate it.

1) Wasted visual space. Huge borders.
2) Wasted vertical space. Huge font size for thread titles.
3) Readability. Gray on gray is ridiculous.

[TeRReT]

Bug?:

I can't login to my account on my iPod without clicking reply to somebody? There is no login option displaying in the upper right corner. Have not tried with chrome as it keeps me logged in but safari was confusing.

[TeRReT]

I see, not a bug, need to know the push the red menu bar thin in the top left which is a confusing jumble of options.

[mariacarmen]

i didn't complain the last time you guys changed things (well, i did because i couldn't make the one-click access to my saved boards link - an actual problem, which STILL doesn't work - but not about general aesthetics. but this is ugly, hard on the eyes (yeah, i got a headache, even though i thought people who were saying that were being dramatic), too busy, counter-intuitive and not user friendly for the home user nor the phone user.

i particularly hate the preview on each reply to a thread. it makes it very difficult to distinguish it from a new post - there ARE times when a reply is just one line! this feature makes for the messiest change on this site. it all feels very .... childish. of course, i'm sure you're all saying that about all of us. but perhaps listening to your most ardent, loyal followers would be prudent.

[Sam D.]

I absolutely hate it!!! This is a detestable abomination. The very large bold type is such a distraction that it kills my desire to remain on this forum. I don't know what the purpose is that you intended by this nonsensical design but it is likely to alienate a lot of long time CH users like myself.

So long & goodbye.

[Wahooty]

This thread is quite the lynch mob...I'm going to focus on being constructive.

I like the preview text in collapsed posts. I'm clicking a lot less to get context on new replies, and I appreciate that.

Agreed about issues with font size - if you want a more mobile-readable site, or even more ad exposure, fine, make the fonts bigger. But make ALL of them bigger. I don't understand why the title of the thread is HUGE while the last poster info is tiny. This is the part that makes no sense to me, from either a usability or a design perspective.

Finally, why can't we see avatars on threaded replies? I only see them on the OP and replies to the OP - once a conversation begins, it's hard to keep straight who is talking in the subthread without their avatars next to their comments.

[MplsM ary]

I also like the preview text - very helpful.

Mobile and larger screen size sites should be separate - as is standard.

I was also wondering about the avatars on replies.

Another positive is that even though this thread has grown to over 200 posts, it rendered very quickly. Before, anything over 200 posts took a while to load, even on a cable modem connection.

Edited to add (after editing a typo)...
Another quirk is that the initial response box is tiny type but when one edits a post the typeface is larger (thankfully).

[Ruth Lafler]

I find that I wait before reading anything on the site because the pages look like they're still loading, as if the white spaces are going to fill in and the text is going to snap into a "normal" appearance.

Plus, it's annoyingly buggy -- replies don't post, or they can't be edited, or you click on something that kicks you out of the thread completely.

[Ruth Lafler]

I figured out what the "problem" is: the wide margin to the left of the topic heading looks like a space that something should be loading into. Subconsciously I'm waiting for something to load into that space. I suppose I'll get used to it, but it's an odd design element.

[lcool]

"problem" is: the wide margin

I doubt we will get used to it.I don't think it is a permanent fixture as is.

I see it more as an unoccupied row of papered store fronts in a newly finished strip mall.Billboard space for sale waiting for Ad $.

You build it and they will come.

There was also something from Jacquilynne about some use of it in a response to Caroline1's question regarding the old "who's reading" box at each thread that went missing.

[Ruth Lafler]

I wasn't referring to the excess empty space on the left side of the screen (which seems to be OS specific, since I don't have that problem on either IE or Chrome on my desktop, but do on my laptop). I'm referring to the space inside the box for the topic immediately to the left of the first letter. It's big. It's a spot that seems designed to have some kind of symbol. When you open the topic it's the space where the avatar and like/FB/Twitter buttons are, but on the topic listing page it's just a blank area that looks like it should have something (like "new").

[lcool]

OK I follow your specific "empty space" answer

I am no guru,geek or expert in this stuff ,but
If in the future they were to offer isolated,limiting options for "partial" print,share etc and or email,3 posts instead of an entire thread without going through hoops and tools to do it an icon install space needs to be there.Better to add an icon/option to existing space that we are done bitching about than f8ck with us yet again,the re-tooled PAGE.

HELL maybe,BIG maybe there will even be an icon/star/word system that actually FACILITATES a system that works for an internal CH searches.

Just a bit of forward,proactive thinking.....and I maybe dead wrong

[Frizzle]

I'm an iPhone only user. I've looked forward to this redesign for a long time as it was hard to participate with the old design.
I do see some improvements for mobile users but I have to agree on the font being huge.
Also, is there any way iPhone users can upload photographs to their posts? I was hoping that might be among the improvements.

[TeRReT]

Hmm I am using an iPod now and can upload a photo ok?

[Frizzle]

I can see the input box and the camera icon but nothing happens when I press the camera icon.

[TeRReT]

Try clicking on the white space beside the camera, the one that says upload a file 10 MB limit

[TeRReT]

Hmm when I click the camera or the white bar I get the option to upload with both. I am using chrome though, let me try with safari

[TeRReT]

Works ok for me in safari as well

[Frizzle]

I just tried chrome with no joy either.

[Engineering]

Fizzle, it looks like you may be running iOS version 5. Apple didn't enable file uploads from the browser until the most recent version (iOS 6). Working uploads are just a software update away.

[Frizzle]

Thank you for your response - you're right, I haven't updated to the latest version.

[Chris VR]

I can figure out and get used to the navigation and other changes but I echo the posters who mention headaches and eye strain. I don't know enough about website design to know why it happens, but I'm finding it difficult to spend a significant amount of time reading any threads, especially a long one like this. My eyes hurt and a headache is starting up after going through just some of this thread :(

[psb]

BTW, the new design goes really well with the new NORTH KOREA Board.

[gingershelley]

Well, this is where I would hit the ironic 'LIKE" button:)

[Foody4life]

.. EDIT no workie for me no matter how hard I click my mouse! Can't edit recent post (<30mins old) using IE9/Win7 desktop

.. GREY / GREY screen background will drop my daily use from more time than it should be - to flash on off once a day.

.. NEW icon on thread list must return. Different shades of grey for thread list, arrow in count boxes, all suck.

.. MOBILE site ease of use is important, but a lot of us (and a big value of this site) are more extensive posters. We use a laptop or desktop and tend to share longer reports or reviews.

If I can't stand looking at the screen for >3 mins, I'm less inclined to post a review. Alternative is turning Chow posts into the 3 word twitter length yelp posts. The Diner, Anytown USA "food was good."

Would love to hear which "users" beta-tested. What they liked and what they may have disliked in the process. You'd figure they'd chime in here...

[LindaWhit]

Foody4life, I suspect you're going to be waiting a LONG time to hear from those beta testers. Which is why there's no chiming in.

[Foody4life]

yep - they already jumped shipped when they saw what was floating our way!

[LindaWhit]

Baby Ruth bars?

[Cheese Boy]

Closest I could find ... http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh...

[gingershelley]

Yup, it seems those 'beta testers' are no one we recognize from people who hang around here alot....

Haven't seen any log-in from someone who is a dedicated chowhounder on common threads, who is saying they 'participated' in any beta-testing' or asked for their opinion about how this should look/work for those of us who USE THIS SITE?

[Cheese Boy]

Hey, the Tide ads and the Pampers ads look awesome !! Follow *their* example CH.

Also, when I went to expand a reply here, it expanded it, and then immediately kicked me out of the thread. Upon re-entering the thread, the whole thread was expanded (of course).

[psb]

This is actually kinda comical. My 5 second reaction to your 6mo redesign was "cant see enough threads on screen without scrolling" and "where is the NEW icon"?

And apparently this is the same "5 second" reaction ~everyone else had.

Did nobody question either of these in the 6mos of testing?

Did you confuse "try to make more mobile friendly" for "must make worse design choice than much ridicules recent University of California logo change?"

Both seem to be textbook failures of "What problem are you trying to solve?"

Is there some place to vote to see whether the current design is polling say 90-10% against or closer to say 95% against?

ok tnx,
--psb

[gingershelley]

Well, psb, all I can say is you got my "like' button. Not trying to be simplistic, but WHAT is this thing going on here?

What problem WAS CH trying to solve? Why can't we see each other's posts and the following threads of othes posts and response's easier if there was supposed to be an improvement.

I guess, the core question IS, WHAT was the core improvements meant to BE? If some MOD could explain the point of all this, that would really, really help.

Otherwise, open up a MOD thread for what feedback you need about your intensions, and how it has failed, and what you were looking for....

[Peripatetic]

> Both seem to be textbook failures
> of "What problem are you trying to solve?"

+1

[LindaWhit]

BUG:

I just came into this thread again by clicking the "Last Reply" - the last person replying was TeRReT with this post:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8814...

HOWEVER - there were about 8 other posts I hadn't read in this thread, some that were timestamped prior to TeRReT's post, some that were timestamped after.

The "Last Reply" is completely useless as it will go to the LAST REPLY, wherever that might be, NOT the "First Unread" post, to which it *should* link for each User.

By sending me to the last post in the thread, it skips over several replies to various posts of mine, as well as other replies, and I *still* have to scroll back to see if there was anything else written earlier in the thread.

I'd rather have "Last Reply" actually go to the First Unread post in any particular thread. Otherwise, why bother having it? I'd rather use the PG DN key to quickly scroll through a long thread.

[mariacarmen]

that's really stupid.

[LindaWhit]

Yeah, and it's REALLY bugging me. I clicked LAST REPLY on this thread this morning, and it shot all the way down to barryg's post WAY below this one:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8814...

And yet I had about 20-25 new posts I hadn't yet read above and below it.

STUPID. Gah. I seriously cannot believe after the last update fiasco, this downgrade wasn't tested.

[bbqboy]

Could you leave the newest post background Yellow for the duration of us viewing it rather than fading away after a few seconds?

[firecracker]

Dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Horrible. Bench your no longer relevant webmaster! Simply AWFUL call. Chow's worst yet!

[TeRReT]

Bugs?:

1) When replying in iPod, post reply button is off the screen to the right.

2) Can't edit my posts after about 10 minutes despite the edit button remaining.

3) After replying with my iPod it does not reset the screen/font size and leaves me overly zoomed in on already overly large text.

4) After editing a post on my iPod it leaves me zoomed significantly more then after a normal reply which is already too much.

[gingershelley]

This is SO AWEFUL that I can hardly speak - oh, write to you about it; why is the new interface so PALE?

It is like you expect every person who hangs out on CH to have a 20/20 eyesite; It is FREAKISH that you would turn the main threads of discussions into a GREY color!!!!!!!!!!!

How can we talk to each other if everyone is paled out to a tiny fraction of their feelings and thoughts?

This is NOT a good move.

I would say, perhaps the organization, and headings are allright as you have changed them - but NO WAY should a thread going actively on should be GREY as we all reply.

Please. REALLY????????

Who did you consult on these changes? I never saw an opportunity to be on a "board;" or an "insight committee" about what you were choosing. This is JUST ridiculous, and not inclusive of your members.

From a long-time WFD, COTM, DOTM, and various posts person. YOU, CHOWHOUND, have not spoken to me, and left me behind in some crazy attempt to find new members, while leaving me cold - no preheating necessary, as I can't be interested in turning on the heat. YOU have messed with goodness, sugar and spice.

SO messed up!

[TeRReT]

1. Smaller font on the front page so it can load more topics again
2. Ability to collapse expanded posts
3. Keep username always with no expiration time
4. Don't have reply/flag fade in/out, keep them showing all the time, especially on mobile.
5. Reply to OP at bottom of thread

The rest I can get used to. Change is necessary, websites need to constantly update to keep with other sites changing, and change is often difficult to contend with, but some of these changes are not well thought out, or the reasons for them are not being explained.

A font change is easy, a colour change is easy, but you seem to have a problem with keeping the username, I will never understand why you want to have it disappear.

[DGresh]

what is this "keep the username" issue?

[TeRReT]

Dave MP 12/06/12 7:30AM
In the new design, usernames will remain in the 'last reply' timestamp for the first 2 days since the last reply. After that, it will revert to just being the date.
Of course, if an older discussion gets updated, the username will appear back in the timestamp again for 2 days.
----------

I would prefer the username always remain.

In further discussion I believe they suggested considering extending the 2 days to maybe 7 but they don't actually explain the merit or reason for username to be removed, so any number of days still does not make sense to me.

[Ruth Lafler]

I don't understand the point of this "feature." I also don't understand the point of having to mouse over the reply/edit, etc. links.

[zin1953]

Ruth, seriously???

"Oh, wouldn't it be cool if . . . " says the junior, assistant programmer (now appointed to senior code writer).

[Ruth Lafler]

Oh, I understand that. I just don't think "because the junior, assistant programmer who just learned how to do this thinks it's cool" is a "point" for doing this.

[ratbuddy]

It's not a junior assistant programmer. It's their head honcho or honchos who want to justify their continued employment by fiddling with unnecessary redesigns. They probably already started on the next one.

Also, anyone else notice that when you type too fast, some characters are dropped in the new system?

[calumin]

On the mouseover, my guess is that they were thinking that it lets the eye focus on the message rather than having many other UI elements in the box which could be distracting.

However, I don't think it's a good idea. Facebook didn't feel the need to implement something like this, not sure why it would be better here.

I really don't understand why someone would think the username feature is a good idea.

[TeRReT]

Can't edit my reply, I should clarify I mean expiration of username in time stamp, not expiration of username itself, don't want to give people a heart attack

[TrishUntrapped]

As Martha says in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?:

Sad, sad, sad.

[calumin]

Why can't you put more topics on a single page?

Like about 10 times as many topics as you have now.

It feels like you don't really want us to see any topics that are more than a couple hours old. Not a good move.

This is really painful. Please fix this or at least let me go back to the way it was.

[steve h.]

Dave,
What elements from the old Chowhound were you trying to improve?

[gingershelley]

Love your comment, and can't believe we didn't even get a 'like' button (which NO ONE would use with this) which we were all asking for.

What the HELL IS this ? NO improvement

[bbqboy]

We're not "all" asking for a like button, believe me.

[gingershelley]

But many, many of us have asked for one, if it could be set up to be judicious.... :)

[MplsM ary]

Amen

[TeRReT]

On my laptop I saw a tied in Facebook like post count so I imagine you can like a post through Facebook, but I see no such feature on my iPod and I don't really use Facebook so it does not interest me much anyways.

But what is annoying on my iPod is having the post reply button off the screen to the right, so after typing this I have to drag the screen over to click reply.

[John E.]

I'm going to have to agree with bbqboy on the 'like' button business. On this thread I don't recall anyone expressung this desire except for you. I have seen it mentioned on other threads. I don't think this site needs to emulate Facebook. They might start uneeded legal action if a 'like' button were added. Beseides that, not everyone here is on Facebook.

[John Talbott]

Horrible

[KaimukiMan]

So far not a big change. I DO like being able to see the first line of a collapsed thread (the postings that were seen last time you opened) it makes it much easier to understand the comments to that posting. I agree that the board listings are way to big and the individual thread postings are too small. Not the end of the world, but not convenient. For the most part it seems to be much ado about nothing, but perhaps I will change my mind after working with it. I still wish the OP date would show next to the OP name so I knew if it was a 4 year old thread, but CH seems intentionally oblivious to those comments.

[ellabee]

Agreed that it's nice to be able to see the first line of a collapsed thread. A feature I'd like at some point, not urgent, is to be able to re-collapse a post to the first line after having clicked on it to expand it.

[LindaWhit]

You've got to wonder why they REMOVE something that was welcomed *and* worked with the redesign.

[gingershelley]

I think ' THINK that I am replying to you LW, but this is so catastophic, I can hardly write....

HORRIBLE. HORRIBLE. HORRIBLE!

Why are our threads where we are all talking 'grey'?

What is this new 'connection' thing that connects no-one with the links at the bottom?

Where is the simple 'like' button everyone asked for? Really? We can't even be trusted to simply like things on here? It could have been coded for only a reply to reply with people who spent a certain amount of time on CH.

I say SHAME! all this is silly. I have seen NOTHING that makes my regular-user experience better.

WhERE were the focus groups, or reaching out to regular users to ask what WE looked for in a re-design? I have NO idea who the MODS/EDITORS are trying to please. Please. PeeShaw.

[zin1953]

Uh . . . because if it ain't broke, let's fix it!

[LindaWhit]

Yeah, they're good at that, it seems. :-/

[kaleokahu]

E, KaimukiMan, Aloha Kaua:

"...CH seems intentionally oblivious..."

Pololei, Brah. They coulda made your avatar the size of the real Lēʻahi, too. The ad-to-thread ratio is now 2:5. Used to be 2:12.

Aloha,
Kaleo

[KaimukiMan]

and yes, i was wrong, they did add the OP date. well thats two things done right.
graphically it sucks, the typeface is hard on the eyes, and the few colors used are jarring rather than enhancing. And if they want to get rid of avatars, just do it, why make them round?

Ok, this is an edit, so I got it to work.... seems like it took them 6 months to pick a typeface and go retro with a black and white scheme so I can use my 1964 zenith as a monitor.

[Njchicaa]

Dear Chowhound,

My vision is fine and I don't require a large-print site. Thanks.

Love,
Njchicaa

[ratbuddy]

Fit less on the screen? Sure. Make the site less usable? Sure.

This happens every time chow does a new-and-improved redesign. It's just their programmers trying to avoid being laid off. It sucks, but they gotta eat too, right?

[getgot211]

Everything has been mentioned but this is just awful.

Tip: vBulletin and call it a day, stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

[LindaWhit]

Yet another reason *NOT* to have the light grey/dark grey. I just went to this thread with 155 replies

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/877444

And kept hitting the Pg Dn on my keyboard to quickly jump down to wherever the first unread post was.....and I almost scrolled right past it. The light gray (unread post) vs. dark gray (read post) is virtually undiscernible during a quick scroll to move quickly in a long thread.

Go BACK to the white for unread posts so they can be seen - PLEASE?

[gingershelley]

The GREY is HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davis_sq_pro]

I just clicked on that thread -- which I've already read and even replied to -- and all of the posts were expanded. Why? They should be collapsed if I've already seen 'em. (Never mind the difficulty in finding new replies, but that's been a problem on here forever -- only made worse in the new design.)

[LindaWhit]

davis_sq - they're only collapsed if there is a new post that you haven't read - just that unread post will remain open to read. But if there are no new posts, they'll all be expanded.

[meatme]

After about a half-hour's use on a laptop...

GOOD: 1) Jumping to the last reply when a user clicks in the "Last Reply" column on a board page. 2) Showing the first line of each collapsed response on a thread page.

OK: Replacing the "New" icon with bold text and an arrow icon. This conveys more information than the previous scheme, and other, standard board software uses a similar approach.

AWFUL: 1) All the wasted vertical space. 2) The low contrast between text and background, which has already given me a headache. (Seriously.) Didn't we confront these very same issues with the last redesign?

BUG(?): Jumping to the top of a thread, rather than the first reply (as previously), when a user clicks in the "Replies" colunn on a board page. Of course, what would be the most helpful would be to jump to the first expanded reply.

NB: I just tried to view the introductory video, getting the message, "The video you have requested in unavailable or may have expired."

[JoanN]

Would someone please tell me where to find the COTM stickies.

[Caitlin McGrath]

They (along with DOTM) look to be located within "QUICK LINKS: Cookbook and Dish of the Month" in red at the very top of the Home Cooking board.

[Jacquilynne]

There are now links to the discussions for Cookbook of the Month just under the title of the board in red text. All of the actual discussion threads will now float with other threads on the board. We hope this will offer a combination of having an easy link so people can always find them and having them be part of the regular conversation on the boards rather than something that's separated off.

[JoanN]

Thanks, but not seeing anything that says QUICK LINKS on my iPhone. Will check my laptop later.

[Jacquilynne]

Ah, sorry, should have checked if you were using the mobile interface. Stickies still aren't visible on mobile, but now that the actual discussions for the Of-the-Month projects aren't stickied (just Quick Links to them), you should be able to see them in the regular discussions.

[Mr Taster]

Sprint LG Optimus S using Dolphin HD browser- there is no way to reply!

The link/flag/reply buttons that magically appear when you hover a mouse cursor over them on a PC simply do not exist on my phone browser.

It's just unclickable dead grey space.

Mr Taster

[DGresh]

In any case I'm not sure what the point is of them "magically appearing". At least on my browser (Firefox on Windows 7) the space into which they appear is just gray space anyway. It's not like they save any space while they're hidden. It simply makes them less obvious if you don't have your mouse in the frame. So you think "there's no way to reply". And in some cases, apparently, that's actually true.

[Mothership]

Well, I was trying to reply to the original post, but couldn't figure out how on my iPhone. And I don't need to read discussions from across the room. I get almost nothing on a page - im not going to spend time scrolling thru 50 pages to read a thread. i mean - seriously oversized and I don't have great vision. The grey/grey issue is pretty serious too. Total bummer:(

[Mr Taster]

Replying to my own post. Just watched the orientation video. When you tap on a topic, the reply arrow appears.

Mr Taster

[MarkhamDee]

IMHO, any site redesign which requires a video to help users understand it, is not an improvement in usability.

If it's not self-evident, then you're making it too complicated.

As an occasional poster and frequent user of Chowhound for over six years, this really just makes me sad...

P.S. - Also tried the new site on my iPhone. Not impressed with that either. The lack of an option to go to the Desktop site is especially irksome.

[LindaWhit]

Exactly. Put the changes in a pinned written post at the top of Site Talk - no, put it at the top of ALL boards. I don't want a video. I can't watch that at work when these changes were made (mid-day).

[travelmad478]

> IMHO, any site redesign which requires a video to help users understand it, is not an improvement in usability.

SO, so true. This is my rule #1 of designing pages and forms: if people use it wrong, or have to ask for directions on how to use it, THE DESIGNER DID A BAD JOB. The current version of CH is non-intuitive in addition to being ugly and clunky. I have a hard time believing that this was beta-tested by actual users, given that the comments on this thread are running approximately 99.9%-0.1% against.

[kaleokahu]

It may have taken 6 months, but the changes I've seen are not for the better, IMO. Not being able to scan more than a few threads per page sucks big time. And I'm nearsighted, but the font and icon sizes look like they belong in Reader's Digest's Big Print Edition.

Not so likely to be spending so much time here contributing... eGullet anyone?

[Breadcrumbs]

Checking out eGullet as you typed kaleokahu...what a shame.

[kaleokahu]

Hi, breadcrumbs:

\I had an Aha! moment about the egregiously large fonts... Increase the font size to absurd = more right-hand space for the things we don't care about: ads. This is about maximizing revenue, not making the site "better."

Aloha, and See You When You Hele to eG,
Kaleo

[ratbuddy]

I didn't even think about that. No wonder Yelp et al. are kicking Chow's ass.

[Breadcrumbs]

Will definitely see you there. I signed up last night.

[scubadoo97]

eGullet uses Tapatalk for mobile use as well

[sal_acid]

eGullet is nice

[jen kalb]

Also, take a look at My Discussion (for me and I assume many the main entry point to the site). The distinction between viewed and unviewed threads is almost imperceptible, with no difference in the headers as with other boards just a teeny weeny difference in the grey tone. So very tastefull and idiotic.. PLEASE bring back the NEW marker or some other very definite demarcation so I know what I have looked at already
!!

[Gabatta]

Takes up too much screen space on desktop and mobile. It's a step in the wrong direction unfortunately.

[ElizabethS]

Was it beta tested by users?

[jen kalb]

thats a joke, right??

[Cheese Boy]

If the changes were beta tested they were tested by betta fighting fish. No human should have approved these changes (some fish did). Everything seems geared toward mobile users. Also, I can't wait to see what they put in all that wasted negative space over on the right-hand side.

[jen kalb]

I just booted up on my new LenovosUltrabook - windows 7 with Goggle Chrome -the whole site only fills 2/3 of the page I had figured it was a problem with all the new ad blocking that myoldfashioned corporate machine was doing but no - the site is now all empty space and I have to scroll and scroll. And this reply box type is just TINY hard to read and edit. As a content provider Id just like to say that I am not going to be doing that - adding content- very much for the foreseeable future from my smartphone,its just too laborious, so CHOW had better work to make the computer view -as well as the smartphone view - work well if it expects folks to actually write. Ive never seen a website that looks as lame as this one does right now - dimensioned to fit on a smartphone. with all this other space available - all the other sites I visit seem to be figuring out how to adjust to make both readable. Recognizing that things may be more complicated than I understand, please please keep working on this.

[DiningDiva]

Just looked at it on my Galaxy Tab (Kindle size) and the new fonts are so big they overrun the screen, even when I try and downsize it.

Man, this is like playing cards with the old folks who need the deck with the giant numbers on it.

Also checked it on my smartphone. Once again the entire thing was too huge to fit on the screen. Downsizing helped some, but that messed up the spacing on the actual posts. CH has been difficult to use on a smartphone at best. It's still difficult

So far not finding the new format very user-friendly :-(

[scubadoo97]

I have yet to explore the new changes on my PC but it's no joy as a mobile user. I really miss the old site. I find nothing that makes navigating this site easier

[jen kalb]

In general, de-emphasizing the pinned threads - or turning them into a FAQ is a good idea since they took up too much space.

But I think the HomeCooking Board still needs more work given the importance of the COTM, dish of the month and voting and nomination threads. Having to find the tiny link, (in comparison to the size of the thread headers below) click through to it and then find the area of interest in the undifferentiated text below - where is the big bold text and headers where it is needed? is confusing and harmful. Im sure this will get fixed, right? Seems like it just was not fully thought through.

[weezieduzzit]

+1

The more clicks it takes to get somewhere the less people will bother. Right now you have to know what the COTM and DOTM are and where to even look for them to find them.

I've visited far less boards since the last redesign making them take more effort to get to- I will probably decrease what I read here even more if it continues to increase in the effort required.

[therealdoctorlew]

Why is every "improvement" a limit to the usablity and amount of information? Hasn't anyone got an interest in design and usablity? Junk this mess, please.

[DiningDiva]

Jeez, I can't tell what I've read and what I haven't read...I'm soooooo confused

And why is the first sentence of each collapsed thread displaying. That made it even harder to try and find new posts in a long thread. I couldn't tell where the new posts started and the old ones ended. Very confusing to the eye.

[kengk]

Every time there is a format change to a BB there is always instant outrage.

That said, new format sucks.

[yumyum]

Word. Plus lots of people who say they are going to leave. FLOUNCE!!

But I am not a fan of this 'upgrade' and hope the engineering team is hearing the feedback.

My latest thing is that now when I click to expand messages I see them all not just my unread. I have to scroll thru a bunch of history to get to the new content. Le sigh.

[roxlet]

I am with everyone else in terms of feeling that the greyness of the site both makes it difficult to read and makes it feel very old. I'm not sure why you have taken away some real functionality here. Both the labeling of threads as 'new' and the larger number of post on the subject threads were very helpful to the reader. Now they're gone, and we have these threads that are practically yelling at you.

[ElizabethS]

Agree with the others that the type size is way too big and the poor use of real estate.

As a reminder - here's a link to an archived page that demonstrates how many more threads were evident

http://web.archive.org/web/2011051007...

[LindaWhit]

Exactly. The old view, even though you had "Show Saved Boards" open, still shows MORE listed threads than the new format. Just think about how many you can see when the "Show Saved Boards" is closed!

Pics below of the new format and the old format as seen on my laptop at home:

[Bacardi1]

Ahh - I see what it is now.

Just like "Yelp" screwed up their site for non-mobile folks in order to cater to the mobile I-can't-live-without-being-connected-to the-internet-for-one-second people, "Chowhound" is now doing the same thing.

Thanks for nothing.

[Chimayo Joe]

Isn't this new redesign visually a lot like the previous redesign before people's complaints were addressed? The complaints seem similar, IIRC.

[Robert Lauriston]

Yes, the last major redesign was horribly unusable at first.

[yumyum]

Holy moley. Just took me 5 minutes to figure out how to reply on my iPhone.

It's a hard job Dave to take all this criticism in and persevere. And you know I feel your pain being in IT and all that. But I hate the new look and feel too.

I'm hopeful the team will take the feedback and iterate.

[gaffk]

I have to agree with the majority here. The ridiculously large font when entering a board (er, category) limits the number of threads viewed at one time is annoying. And that annoyance is compounded by the fact that the "New" tag has been removed. Add to thast the whole light gray\dark gray approach to unread\read threads is giving me a major headache. You don't really have to have taken a design course to know that black print on a white background is the easiest to process. Also, I too find the first line of an already read post to be distracting. And I'm giving myself eyestrain reading this in the Reply section.

For the record, My Categories does appear (laptop with IE 7).

[cheesemaestro]

Perhaps My Categories being cut off with certain browsers is an operating system issue? I'm still using Windows XP.

[gaffk]

Perhaps, I have Windows 7.

[Karl S]

I want the option to condense the size. It's awful for me.

[scoopG]

I agree. This is terrible.

[cheesemaestro]

I tried the new design with three browsers: Mozilla Firefox, Chrome and Internet Explorer. The My Categories (saved boards) selection appears with Firefox, but is missing when using Chrome or Internet Explorer. This needs to be fixed.

[juliejulez]

My My Categories is there, I use Chrome.

[Jacquilynne]

Just checking -- are you logged in in all three browsers? I've been using My Categories in Chrome since the redesign, so it's not universally missing.

[cheesemaestro]

I tried the three browsers sequentially and just tried them again. Same thing. In another post below, I theorized that it might be dependent on the operating system. I'm on my laptop which has Windows XP.

[John Francis]

Another objection to the huge font for headers and the pointless and wasted white space, that results in users getting less information on the screen in an actually less readable format.

I'm talking about a conventional computer screen as with a desktop or laptop computer. If the redesign is intended for smartphone screens, it's no use to me.

Also, where are the flags for threads with posts I haven't read yet? Have I got to waste my time opening every thread just in case? Sheesh!

[travelerjjm]

If I wear my Gunnar glasses the gray on gray of posts is not too difficult to read. Without them the contrast is not enough. I suppose I will have to create some custom CSS to make the site easier to use.

[Ruth Lafler]

Okay, since everyone is complaining, I'll give you one thing I like: the preview line on the collapsed posts. Very helpful for long threads with multiple tangents.

[HillJ]

I think the preview lines are distracting and dozens of wordy images require hard focus...but in the scheme of things the preview lines are at least doing what they are designed to do..and working.

[DGresh]

Ruth I agree. That's the ONE thing I really like. It's nice to have a little bit of an idea of what someone is saying "me too" or "+1" to. Other than that, I agree with everyone else. Particularly regarding the huge wasted space when looking at threads. I see just 3 or 4 topics on my full size monitor. This is silly.

[mariacarmen]

i'm sorry Ruth, must disagree. that's the thing i hate the most - makes it so very busy! and i'm on a very long thread daily - WFD.

[LindaWhit]

Agree. I dislike the previews. I find them unnecessary.

[Robert Lauriston]

This is a disaster. Really one of the most impressively horrible site redesigns I've ever encountered.

Edit does work for me. And the font in the Edit box is reasonable size, unlike the original Reply box.

[Ruth Lafler]

The thumbs-up and facebook like links are not loading on my browsers -- either Firefox or Chrome -- all I can see is the twitter icon.

[Ruth Lafler]

This seems to be fixed now.

[SnackHappy]

50 shades of gray

[SnackHappy]

It looks like crap. It's messy, fussy and confusing. I might take a break from these boards and come back later to see how you've fixed things. Right now, it looks like yet another overhaul disaster.

[Florida Hound]

"Overhaul disaster." Strong words, but I think I agree. I never like change, but my learning curve patience will be put to the test with this new format. Change for no reason is always frustrating to me. Florida Hound

[roxlet]

Yes, clearly they're trying to beat us into submission.

[HillJ]

Anyone else notice the letters cut off on the justfied left side of the OP comment? Nearly every OP has a few letters missing on the left column within the first two lines.

[HillJ]

I could not edit my own comment here to add:

The flagging and replying comment boxes are going to get confused designed so close together. Why is a reply box even opening when a poster selects flagging?

[HillJ]

I still need to hit the refresh button to advance to the current page of comments.

[JoanN]

Yes, I'm noticing that as well. But when I first opened this new design I believe there was a "like" button there and perhaps another button as well. Neither is there now.

I'm curious about people commenting on a serif typeface in the reply box. As I'm typing it's sans serif. Where are people seeing a serif typeface?

[Jay F]

In the reply box, the typeface is tiny and *avec* serif.

If you're not seeing it, maybe you're lucky. Or maybe they're fixing it.

[Ruth Lafler]

What's strange is that one of my replies came out in yet another font! I don't mind serif fonts, BTW, just tiny ones!

[Jay F]

I'm constantly toggling between control - and control + to change the size of the page. It's too big on the outside, and waaaaaaaay too small inside.

You shouldn't have to do that on any website. Anywhere. Anytime. Nuh-uh.

I am only reading this thread. Anything more would be too much work.

[JoanN]

No, still not seeing it. And the type in the reply box is the same size as in the posted reply although easier to read because the type is black, not gray. Odd.

[Jay F]

Who do you know, Joan? Someone must like you.

[JoanN]

Haha. Just fyi, I'm reading and typing right now on a MacAir, in case that knowledge is helpful to anyone.

[Robert Lauriston]

Maybe the tiny font is browser-specific. Screen shot attached.

[JoanN]

This is a screen shot from MacAir using Firefox with Mountain Lion.

[Robert Lauriston]

Hmm, the Edit button has no effect on that post. I wanted to add that I'm using Firefox ESR 17.0.1 on Windows 7.

[LindaWhit]

I get the same tiny font - Using Chrome.

[GH1618]

The "edit" function seems not to work on my iPad.

[Jpan99]

Hate it, for all the reasons stated above. Visually unpleasant to look at. Gray. Yup. Jumbo print. Yes, I'm old but I have glasses I don't need you to enlarge everything. Wasted space. My eyes are starting to hurt. I use a desktop, clearly you are designing for mobile. Not very useful for me anymore.

Ciao, Chow.

[Luther]

I want to ask a question I asked when the Conde Nast/CHOW.com thing first happened: Why not just use some kind of third-party forum software and customize the heck out of it to get a distinctive look? Trying to invent a bulletin board from scratch is going to leave you with too little, too late.

[creamfinger]

Epic fail. The site may be ok if you view it exclusively on a smart phone, but if you use a computer it stinks. It's like I'm reading the large print version of book made for people with seeing impairments. The way it stands now, I can't see myself participating as much as I did before. Too much effort to read the same number of posts. Also, there are no tooltips for the new icons. I just watched the "instructional" video and I can't recall what they mean.