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Cross Rib/Shoulder Roast...vs....Chuck Roast/Blade Roast Challenge , Roasted Low and Slow @ 210* With Pictures

This past week, the supermarket I frequent most had a sale on beef. Whenever this happens, I always pick up a few Chuck Roasts to have on hand….but this time, I also picked up a Shoulder Roast as well. The sale price for both was only $2.57 per pound…the average price was less than $8 per roast…very reasonable and quite a bargain…especially when you consider I plan to experiment with the beef to see if I will like the final results….or find it was a failure and end up feeding it to my Sister-in-Law’s two dogs…..truth be told, they always get some anyway.

Recently, there has been some interest in finding ways to prepare cuts of beef that I was generally not familiar with, particularly a *Cross Rib Roast*. After doing some research, I have found that this is a cut from the Chuck Section or Shoulder portion of the carcass. The *Cross Rib Roast* is a term more common in the West Coast of the USA…..in Canada it is known as the *Boneless Cross Rib Roast*……..however in many other regions the Alternative Names are : Chuck Shoulder Roast, Boneless Chuck Pot Roast, Arm Pot Roast, Shoulder Clod Roast, English Roll and Shoulder Clod. In my area of New Jersey, it is known simply as a *Shoulder Roast*.

The strange thing about both the Cross Rib Roast and the Chuck Roast…is that they are both believed to be best suited for a braise, as in for a Pot Roast Recipe….but I have found that the Chuck Roast makes for a very nice and flavorful beef roast when dry roasted low and slow to Medium-Rare temperature.. Granted it’s not the most tender option and a few of the muscles are jaw challenging…but with a low and slow roasting, it becomes tender, and for myself, quite enjoyable.

Since the beef was on sale, I thought this would be a good time to find out if the Cross Rib Roast was any good…and how it compared to a Chuck Roast/Blade Roast…roasted low and slow…given the sale price was the same for both.

The preparation and process was simple. I took both cuts of beef and Jaccard Meat Tenderized them. I seasoned both with only Kosher Salt 24 hours in advance of roasting. The following steps details the process:

Seasoned Simply With Kosher Salt For 24 Hours
Removed both roasts from the refrigerator two hours prior to roasting.
Seared both roasts
Both roasts placed atop a grill grate over a sheet pan
Preheated the oven to 450*
Placed the two roasts into the oven and dropped the temperature to 210*
Rotated and Flipped both roasts halfway at 90 minutes.
Pulled the Chuck Roast @ the 3 hour mark, 130 degrees
Pulled the Shoulder/Cross Rib Roast @ 3.5 hours and 135*
Allowed both roasts to rest covered, and or, for 60 minutes @ 140* in the oven
Sliced the beef
You can see the results in the pictures.
Zero bleeding.
Tender Beef

Points to note:

Hands down, the Cross Rib Roast was much more tender than the Chuck Roast…however, the beef flavor was not as pronounced. Given the results, the Shoulder Roast can be a nice alternative, but I still prefer the Chuck Roast, as it offers much more beef flavor. The Cross Rib /Shoulder is more elegant than the Chuck Roast in slicing presentation, but the lack of flavor submits to the little fight and chew the Chuck Roast has for me to prefer it over the Cross Rib Roast in the end. I can see why the Cross Rob/Shoulder is a favorite of many Barbecue enthusiasts. Tender beef with added Smoke flavor.

For the record, I would not braise the Cross Rib Roast Shoulder Roast for pot roast…. The first thing I noticed was how meaty and lean the Cross Rib was compared to the Chuck Roast. I tried a slice of the Chuck first and it was very flavorful but the meat was kind of stringy and had some chew. The Cross Rib Roast was much more tender. The meat is a finer textured than the chuck, In general, I have found whenever roasting beef, the optimal resting time is two hours. Initially, I sliced both beef roasts after a 60 minute resting period. Both roasts were great…..but I gave the overall nod to the Shoulder/Cross Rob Roast for tenderness, The Chuck Roast for flavor. Surprisingly before putting the Cross Rib Roast away…after 2.5 hours covered by a stainless steel bowl. The beef was even more tender and enjoyable. The longer resting period is key for superior results.

My two mandates for roasting any beef:

Roast low and slow

Rest meat for a minimum of two hours

Enjoy the pictures…

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  1. Fantastic info! Nice pix.

    I have never salted 24 hours in advance. Can you talk a bit about this? I have always heard 1 hour, max.

    I have never rested in the oven. I will have to try this. I have done the FTC that many smokers do (after smoking a roast -- pork or beef -- wrap in foil, then the foil in a towel and put that in a small cooler for a couple of hours).

    5 Replies
    1. re: travelerjjm

      I am not qualified to give any scientific reasons for the 24 hour seasoning....other than to say it seasons the beef and I suspect it draws out some moisture to concentrate the beef flavor.....possibly tenderizing a little bit as well..

      For Standing Rib Roasts, I actually salt 48 hours in advance.....Seasoning all areas from the top, pulling apart the deckle or fat cap to season the eye, and partially removing the bones to season the bottom of the eye and the ribs...before tying the roast back up.

      As for the one hour rule....I suspect that would be for a steak., not a roast.

      1. re: fourunder

        Interesting. Thanks. I will try it. I generally dry-age standing rip roasts, but I don't salt.

        1. re: travelerjjm

          With regards to the 24 hour salting of beef....Cooks Illustrated/ America's Test Kitchen, researched and experimented with Eye Round. Many feel the salt aids in tenderizing the meat....you may want to research the original story and they may be able to provide more specifics on the salting process and it's effects on the meat.

          1. re: fourunder

            U P D A T E D ! ! !

            F Y I..........PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT! ! !



            My most recent Chuck Roast was made following the usual low and slow method as outlined here.....but the outcome was far from perfect and basically inedible....either a poor piece of meat....or just a poor pick for expecting a tender and flavorful roast....I suspect the latter, as the meat was super tough roasted to 135*.....and given the the connective tissue and collagen doesn't melt under 140*.

            Although the pictures look fine....the meat was not chewable.

            My conclusion is you need to select meat without the heavy white collagen...not to be confused with the marbling you see in Strip Steaks and Rib Eyes. In the last two pictures, for a Medium-Rare/Medium target roast, you need to select a leaner piece of meat like thE last picture of pink meat, not the darker red one....which would be more suitable for an actual braised pot roast or roast beef cooked past medium temperature.

      2. re: travelerjjm

        A larger cut benefits from a loner time with salt simply because it takes longer for the salt to pull the juices out of the meat, mix with the juices, and reabsorb into the meat.

        This process can happen in an hour with a steak, but takes considerably longer with bigger cuts.

      3. I get so excited when I see one of these posts of yours, fourunder! I am sorry if you said and I did not see it, but which one is the rounder one and which the flatter one? Both look gorgeous...

        1 Reply
        1. re: GretchenS

          I'm thankful and glad you like both my style and approach....it is greatly appreciated.

          The flat roast is the Chuck Roast.

          The round shape roast is the Cross Rib.. The meat was sliced on the bias at 45* angle, not at a 90* angle to the side edges

          The Chuck weighed 2.75 pounds and the Cross Rib weighed 3.15 pounds.

        2. Another huge contribution to the Site, Professor. Thanks. As usual, I look forward to taking your learning and applying it to my cooks - most likely on the offset.

          1 Reply
          1. re: MGZ

            As always....you are too kind.

          2. Great info! Thanks! Funny, I have always considered both of these cuts to need braising until totally done throughout. It is good to see that they can be rosy and still chewable.

            1 Reply
            1. re: sandylc

              Here's a similar thread I posted for the Chuck Roast Specifically. You can see the different results in pictures for varying finished temperatures. Well done beef is not my thing..


            2. Fantastic tutorial highlighting the differences between these two roasts. You sure know how to roast a hunk of meat. Great job!

              1 Reply
              1. Belive it or not - chuck roast (also called 7 blade roast / steak) is my favoite bit of beef for the Grill when there's a crowd involed.

                I beat it up with a meat hammer a bit, dejon, wishy sauce, S&P and coffee. since it's one thickness it cooks up a bit better than say a tri-tip... Anyway, I love it... give it a try.

                2 Replies
                1. re: sparky403

                  I cannot argue with you about the virtues of grilled meat.....my only question is.....what is *Wishy Sauce*?

                2. It is nice to see someone discovering the shoulder clod sub primal. If you have not already indulged try a flatiron roast next. It will become one of your favorites.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: Brandon Nelson

                    Thanks....I have been enjoying Flat Iron before I knew it was called Flat Iron.....only as Top Blade. I agree, it's arguably the most tender and flavorful cut of beef available.

                  2. Thank you for posting this awesomeness! I had the remnants of my last side of beef hanging around in the freezer--three random large cuts that I did this way yesterday. I had a sirloin roast, arm roast and what looked like a x-blade roast. All three came out super tasty and surprisingly tender. Edible in the med-rare and sliced state, which is such a treat from what were basically two pot roasts. I did not tenderize any of them. All were from an organic, 100% pastured cow and I have been underwhelmed with the texture of the other large bits I've roasted less than to falling apart. The 24 hour salting thing makes a huge difference, I think. And the low and slow, of course. The sirloin roast is the best I've made or tasted.
                    Also notable to me is the flavor/tenderness trade offs you've pointed out. What a fun taste test!

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: splatgirl

                      Thanks for the comments....unless it's a backyard barbecue, I find I do not indulge in having steaks at home as frequently as I used to....but to be honest, I find some of these inexpensive cuts of beef to have some real value and I may actually enjoy them more. The meat has punch and I find I do need to eat as much red meat to be satisfied for my urges and cravings.....plus the fact there will always be a little for leftovers.

                    2. I have a 4.2 pound boneless chuck roast that I want to slow roast according to your directions. I will then saute some fresh mushrooms in butter and pour the juices in to top the sliced meat with ( for Christmas).

                      How long would be suggest cooking at 225º for this roast? I want it to be medium rare when served. Thanks for the wonderful descriptions and photos, I had a feeling it could be baked and just found your site. I plan on Christmas dinner, so need an answer within a few weeks:-)

                      16 Replies
                      1. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                        I'd suggest you get a wired probe thermometer and monitor your roast and pull it at 135-140*. These thermometers are inexpensive if you don't have one and will be a good tool for future use. Allow for a generous resting time for best results

                        1. re: scubadoo97

                          Most don't have an immersion circulator at home, but my wife purchased one for me a few months ago as an early birthday gift and I recently sous vide a chuck roast for 24 hours at 132 degrees. It came out great - the cheap cut was transformed into a wonderfully tender piece of beef.


                          1. re: trillen

                            Nice job.....out of curiosity....how do you determine the length of time the roast needs to sit in the water bath...i.e., why not 6, 12 or 18 hours instead.


                            1. re: fourunder

                              Thanks. I'm not a science guru but as far as I understand it, the long length of time is required to soften the collagen present in the connective tissues that make the beef tough. Weight-bearing muscles and muscles that are used frequently contain higher amounts of collagen than muscles that aren't used as much. Collagen is a long, stiff protein and its structure makes it very strong and difficult to break down. However, when cooked slowly and for a long time, the collagen becomes gelatin, thus making the meat tender.

                              I chose 24 hours based on some other recipes I saw, and I assume this time frame is required to make the meat tender enough. You could probably cook it for less time with satisfactory results but the meat just won't be quite as tender.


                        2. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                          First, the advice scubadoo97 gives about a digital probe thermometer is sound and recommended.....and it will definitely give you the confidence to achieve a great final result ....but in lieu of that any probe thermometer will also work just as well if you follow the following guidelines.

                          Here's a similar tutorial thread I started specifically for Chuck Roasts. I experimented with various thickness cuts and weights, cooked them at different temperatures and to varying degree of temperature doneness. Give it a read. Basically, both threads are essentially the same for method and approach.

                          Special Note: For Smaller/Thinner Roasts 5 pounds and under, I prefer to pan sear the roast on the stove top, rather than with a high heat blast in the oven at the beginning.


                          The greatest concern for your results to come out as you expect is to pay attention to the thickness, and not the total weight. A thinner roast will cook to temperature faster than a thicker one. Examples of results in the thread I linked shows you where I made a rookie mistake in allowing a heavier, but thinner roast to be overcooked to medium by overlooking this simple precaution.

                          Based on the details you have provided, I would do the following:

                          * Take out of the fridge two hours in advance
                          * Pan Sear and place on a rack over a sheet pan.
                          * Place in a 215-225* oven
                          * Rotate and flip the roast halfway at 90 minutes.
                          * Expect 2.5-3.5 hours depending on your oven to reach 130-135*. Make your first check at 2.5 hours, but don't be surprised if it takes 3 or more hours
                          * Hold for a minimum 1 hour , but 2 hours is better.
                          * You can hold in a 140* (Lowest Warm Oven Setting) without covering. Once it hits temp, you can open the door for a few minutes to allow the heat to escape first.
                          * Before serving, return to oven for a 8-10 high heat blast
                          * Remove from oven and slice immediately....no second rest is necessary.

                          In general, I would expect about 5 hours total time to finish the roast.....3 to cook and 2 to hold. If the roast finishes sooner, no problem, as I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period...You can also hold the roast outside the oven ....I cover with a large stainless steel mixing bowl and wrap it with a towel if I need to user the oven for other items. ...other wise I just keep it in the oven. If I do need to use the oven, then once the sides are finished, I'll put the roast back into the oven at 250* for 20-30 minutes to warm the roast before the high heat blast @ 450*....Don't worry about the 250 warm-up phase, it is not a recook. After the blast, you can slice immediately, no second rest is necessary.

                          Should you need any other specific questions or concerns, please feel free to post your queries and I'll come back and answer or explain further.

                          For the record, @ 225* the method is very forgiving and it's practically impossible to over-cook....even if you leave it in the oven 30 minutes longer than expected.....that's why the wide range for cooking times. I rarely use a digital probe thermometer...as I'm not anal about exact temperatures, but Ive cooked so many by now that I can simply use the finger poke test and my experience gives me the approximate times to begin checking the roasts. ...it also helps to know your oven.

                          However, I will concede I do use a simple probe thermometer to check the final results at the end

                          1. re: fourunder

                            The recommendation of the wired probe was to keep from opening the oven and dealing with recovery time.

                            No question a good finger poke with a good frame of reference is more than adequate

                            1. re: fourunder

                              this is just waaaaaaay to complex for me. Thanks for all of that information, but all I wanted to actually know was about how long, but I failed to tell you that my roast is about 3" thick and 4.2 pounds. So, knowing that and since I don't want to buy yet another oven thermometer, I already have a very good digital one that I put in when testing, do you have any idea about how long to cook it for the 135º temp and then rest. I will brown it first on high in an iron skillet. Thanks for any advice.

                              1. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                                From above.......

                                In general, I would expect about 5 hours total time to finish the roast.....3 to cook and 2 to hold. If the roast finishes sooner, no problem, as I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period

                                1. re: fourunder

                                  Thank you so much, you are so much help to all of us. I have been cooking for 50 years and everyone says I am an excellent cook, but still there is always something new to learn. I think that's why so many of us love it, its a creative process. Might be very brave to try this on Christmas day with my son and daughter, I was going to do a nice pot roast with a dark roux to thicken the gravy and still might and save the experiment for the next time. but I def am going to do it, too much of a challange not to:-)

                                  1. re: fourunder

                                    "I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period"

                                    I agree and this is often overlooked and one wants to cut into that hot steak in anticipation of perfection when perfection requires patience.

                                    1. re: scubadoo97


                                      Can you do this method for steak too. Not often but sometimes, I buy a nice piece of steak and then Ruin it when I cook ( or at least it isn't as tender and flavorful as I would like).

                                      I have tried your slow roast for chuck roast and it tasted wonderful, then tried it last week for New York steak (and it was overcooked and not tender as I was expecting.

                                      (if you dont slow roast your steak, how do you cook a steak so that it is rare inside but tender and not overcooked on the outside?)

                                      1. re: cookinglisa

                                        For a steak the reverse sear works really well.
                                        Pop you seasoned steak in a low 225-250 oven until it's around 90-100 internal and finish it in a hot cast iron pan or hot grill and take it to your preferred internal. I shoot for 135-140 and then let it rest for a good 15+ min

                                        You are shooting for a good crust that isn't too thick so the meat will look pretty much red/pink edge to edge. You could also use a torch to crust the outside if you take it to near finishing temp in the oven.

                                        Here again a good instant read thermometer works wonders or a knowledgeable finger poke.

                                        1. re: scubadoo97


                                          Have you noticed any notable differences in the results of using 225*, as opposed to 275*? I have no allegiance to 275*....I used it only because that's the number I read when reading about it for cooking steaks and the reverse sear process...


                                          1. re: fourunder

                                            Don't think it makes a difference except in time to get to target temp.

                                            I'm not a by the book cook

                                        2. re: cookinglisa

                                          First, sorry to hear about the less than stellar results.

                                          You must realize that at times, regardless of our best efforts, sometimes you just get a clunker for a piece of meat and no matter what you do to it, it will not be good. With that said, I believe you need to purchase steaks that are thicker, rather than thinner to give you the best opportunity to allow the cooking process to work it;s magic. Time is ingredient needed to allow the meat to break down naturally and allow the enzymes to break the muscle fibers down. I also believe you need to allow the meat to rest....for a steak a minimum 10 minutes. Myself, I recommend steaks should be a minimum 1.5 inches thick...but I prefer steaks yo be 2-3 inches thick if possible. Rather than individual steaks, I would rather have one large steak for two. I believe they cook better.

                                          You can use the low and slow approach with a few modifications, or adjustments. Instead of 225*, use 275*. Start with a room temperature steak (60*) and cook on a rack until it hits a temperature of 90-110* internal temperature. From there you do a reverse sear in a fry pan. If you like a lot of char or crust, then use the lower 90*, so you can leave it on the fire a longer on both side to create the crust.

                                          Have a look at the following thread and I show the method and process I recently did with a Top Sirloin Steak. It came out very good and I was quite surprised with the results.


                                      2. re: fourunder

                                        can someone tell me how to get out of a certain discussion once I have the answer I need. I have about 12 emails on this one subject and have written down the recipe to try and don't need anymore, but thank everyone for the help.

                                2. I followed your instructions using the cross rib roast. I did put in a remote-read thermometer and found that my y 2.5# roast was at 135 in just under an hour and a half. I rested it covered, but because it was done so early, had to re heat it. I reheated it in a toaster oven (my regular ovens go to 200 and 170 at their lowest) at 160. It took an hour to go from 95 to 135. It tasted and looked wonderful and I'll have the leftovers with a mushroom wine sauce.

                                  I would have taken pix, but it was very similar to yours only slightly redder.

                                  Thanks for the tips!

                                  2 Replies
                                  1. re: travelerjjm

                                    Nice job and....Nice to hear you enjoyed the results......since you cannot hold at 140* in your oven, My only suggestion would be to place a bowl or invert a pot over the roast, covered with a bath towel. You could also put it in a cooler, but I deem that step excessive and unnecessary.

                                    Also, you really do not need to bring the roast back up to 135* for serving. Try placing the same size roast back into a 250* oven for 20-30 minutes and finish with a 5 minute high heat blast. That will not cook the roast any further, but will bring it up to a nice serving temperature in a shorter amount of time.

                                    Once you stop the initial cooking process and hold the meat.... you will not cook up the roast using the steps I outlined above.

                                    BTW....did you try salting for 24 hours first?

                                    1. re: fourunder

                                      I did foil and a towel with no cooler.

                                      I did salt 24 hours in advance and it worked well. Thanks.

                                      I'll try the 250 oven with the next one. I live at 8500' so food cools quickly here, even if we warm plates. I knew I wouldn't cook it at 160 or anything, but I wanted it hot.

                                      BTW, my wife was a bit skeptical and had always made it as pot roast so she was quite surprised with the good flavor and texture. Thanks, again.

                                  2. Update: Chuck Roast roasted at 200*

                                    When I first conceived of doing this challenge, the meat was on sale at my local supermarket and two different pieces of Chuck Roast were purchased. This piece of meat is about 3 pounds in weight and 1.5 inches thick. It was frozen when purchased and thawed for 3 days in the refrigerator. Pretty much the roast was treated and roasted like all my other slow roasted meats....but this time with slight variations to see how the results would turn out.....for better or worse. No thermometers were used at any time inside the oven, only after 3.5 hours afterwards. This was a straight test simply by setting the oven temperature and hold the roast.. While I agree that a Digital Temperature Probe is useful and can save a lot of angst....I've also maintained that with experience, the thermometer is not necessary and you can produce a great result

                                    * Removed from refrigeration and needled with a Jaccard Meat Tenderizer

                                    * Seasoned with Kosher Salt, Fresh Cracked Black Pepper, Worcestershire Sauce and Soy Sauce....rested for 4 hours to warm to room temperature.

                                    * Seared in a fry pan

                                    * Place on a rack and grill grate

                                    * Placed into a preheated 450* oven and the oven temperature was dropped immediately to 200*

                                    * After 2.5 hours, the oven setting was reduced to 170 for one hour.

                                    * At the 3.5 hour mark, the oven was further reduced to 140* for an additional hour, or 4.5 hours total time spent inside the oven before the oven door was opened. At this time, a digital temperature probe was inserted and the roast registered 135*, or Medium Rare. The roast was removed from the oven and the thermostat was increased to 450* for 10 minutes....the roast was then placed inside the preheated oven for only five minutes to warm the roast for serving temperature.....It was removed and placed onto a cutting board...sliced within 5 minutes of leaving the oven. You can see there is zero bleeding. The four thin slices next to the knives were made after another hour outside the oven. You can see that Carpaccio thin slices were made....Very tender beef. This method is fool proof.

                                    The final conclusion:

                                    * Jaccard Tenderize
                                    * Sear
                                    * Roast @ 200* for 2.5-3.0 Hours
                                    * Hold inside oven for one hour @ 170*
                                    * Hold an additional one hour @ 140*
                                    * High heat blast @ 450* for 5 minutes
                                    * The roast is ready to slice and serve.

                                    1. Thank you thank you thank you. 'Low and slow's the way to go'. LOL

                                      1. HELP! Thanks for this great article. I am actually cooking a 2lb shoulder roast and a 2lb chuck roast for dinner this evening. I salted them 24 hrs ago and they are currently resting. My big dilemma is figuring out the proper length of time, given that 1) they are smaller and 2) I will be cooking them side-by-side. What do you suggest? Also, what do you think about using the convection oven since I am cooking 2 pieces? I would greatly appreciate any feedback and help you can offer! Many thanks in advance!!!

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: emshryock

                                          Good morning...your roasts are actually considered small since they are under 4 pounds. If you can adhere to the 90-120 minute resting period, I would just cook them both at the same time with at least 4 inches separating the two roasts. Cook on a rack or grill grate over a shallow roasting pan. For small roasts, I would sear on the stove top and i would also flip halfway into cooking and rotate the pan.

                                          i do not recommend the convection oven for low temperature roasting.....it accelerated the finish time, which defeats the purpose of the low temperature method....i.e. to let enzymes naturally break down the meat fibers to tenderize.

                                          I think 4-5 hours is the time allowance you will need to finish the meat to temperature, hold @ 240* or in your oven, and finish your sides. Blast the meat at the end for 5 minutes to bring up to a pleasant serving temperature. No need for a second rest and you can begin slicing immediately upon removal from the oven.

                                          It's hard to tell you which roast will finish sooner, as it depends on the shape of each roast and you do not mention your target temperatures. I find the roast are best at 130-135+ final temperature....the latter especially for the Chuck.

                                        2. Here's a recent Cross Rib Roast/ Shoulder Roast I recently made.

                                          2.5 pounds
                                          Pan Seared
                                          225* for 2 hours until it reached 130* internal temperature
                                          Rested inside the oven @ 140* for 2 hours.
                                          Removed and sliced immediately.

                                          You can see the roast is not overcooked and very lean. Those cuts are from the first 3 slices from the outer surface, or at about 1/2 inch from the exterior. I suggest for any of those who like the Eye Round Roast, you give this a try sometime and compare for yourself....This has much more beef flavor, it's more moist and tender to boot. This roast was purchased on sale for 2.77/lb., or less than $7.

                                          4 Replies
                                            1. re: scubadoo97

                                              Thanks...this method really is quite simple and very easy....and the result is zero bleeding or loss of any meat juices.

                                            2. re: fourunder

                                              Thank you for these instructions fourunder, I used them to make a delicious roast sirloin last night and I couldn't believe how uniform and delicious the meat turned out! What a great technique, thank you for sharing and for explaining in more detail, and giving tips, in various posts and threads on this board!

                                              1. re: unlaced

                                                Thank you for the kind words and it's always nice to hear when someone gets a good result.. Don't look back now and ever go back to the dark side

                                            3. Thank you for posting this. I wonder if the searing of the roast is always necessary if not using high heat blast at the finish?

                                              You mentioned resting the roast in the over @140, would it bring up the temperature even higher than resting it over the counter?

                                              3 Replies
                                              1. re: uncle6

                                                With regards to searing or browning beef, it serves three purposes. ..

                                                First, it destroys the surface bacteria on the meat. Up until a few years ago, I did neither when slow roasting, as per the CI/ATK recipes....., but a knowledgeable fellow that used to post on this site pointed me to a reference by the National Beef Council that indicated it was flawed and meat really need to be seared or browned in the beginning, regardless of size. My method now is to sear small roasts on the stove, but for larger roasts, I brown in the oven @ 450 for 20-30 minutes, depending on the actual size of the roast.

                                                Second, it solves the problem of gray looking meat and makes for a much better looking roast if presentation is a concern.

                                                Third, my one gripe with the low and slow method for medium to large roasts in the past...without searing or browning in the beginning, the outer layer of meat was very dry and chewy, resembling *Jerky*, more than a crust.

                                                With the 2 hour hold or resting period, once you reduce the thermostat from 225 to 140, effectively you are ending the cooking process for the meat. If you want to play it safe, you could open the oven door for a few minutes to let the heat escape. At 225, the carry over effect is usually 5-7* at most....worse case scenario is it just brings it to the higher range of the temperature scale, 125-135... If you pull at 122, it ill not get over 135....and still MR, not medium.

                                                I do not know if you opened all the comments in this thread, but I have pictures of the finished roasts with pictures.... and you can clearly see the meat is bright and shiny, indicate moist meat, not dry or overcooked to the next range level. Go up to the top of the page, just below my original post and click on *X#* Replies. that will open up all the comments and show you the pictures for a number of different roasts I did recently. Using the same method for all....the results are all similar....so you can see exactly what to expect. The method is very forgiving. Even leaving the roast in the oven @ 225 for 30-45 minutes too long will not really raise the internal temperature another significantly higher.

                                                1. re: fourunder

                                                  Happy Thanksgiving!

                                                  So I have a 2.5 pound strip loin roast, it is small but is it ok to brown it in oven instead of searing? I tried not to make a mess by searing.

                                                  And speaking of bacterial, I salt the meat after I got home and let it uncovered in the fridge for overnight, do you think that bacteria will still has chance to grow because of all the salt that I suppose will inhibit bacteria growth?

                                                  I have read your post in other thread that you salt the meat for overnight and up to few days, do you do that covered or uncovered? And will it cross-contaminate other foods in the fridge by leaving a piece of meat in it?

                                                  1. re: uncle6

                                                    You can certainly brown in the oven....450 for 15 minutes, then drop down to 200-225*.

                                                    As for salting, that's a personal preference. I really do not believe the salt penetrates completely through....plus I really do not want it to alter the taste or texture of the meat...so I prefer 24 ours unless it's a larger Prime Rib or Thick cut roast, like a Chuck 7-Blade, then 48 hours.



                                                    As for air drying in the fridge....I've done poultry, pork, lamb and beef for 5+ days uncovered....never had one problem....and never killed a guest. I'm very comfortable doing it....and so are many others on this site.

                                              2. Did all of this last night and we absolutely loved the flavor of this meat (real meat taste unlike so many other cuts) and it tasted even better today where I turned this into sliced sandwich meat.........sliced very thinly. Really great. I used grass fed beef.

                                                1. Well, your little roast does not have as much marbling in it as the bigger around one. Flavor and tenderness are due to the marbling in the meat. One is better suited for dry oven roasting and the other does better for cooked in a liquid/sauce/gravy. Marbling is the tiny specks of fat that are distributed through out the cut of meat. Again the more specks of fat the juicer, more tender, more tasty the cut is going to be. Another hint for you is florescent lighting discolors meat fast. So when you are at the supermarket and you are picking out your meat and one looks discolored it is due to the lighting not that the meat is old or not good.

                                                  2 Replies
                                                  1. re: DenaGrant

                                                    *One is better suited for dry oven roasting and the other does better for cooked in a liquid/sauce/gravy. *

                                                    Both of these are generally considered Pot Roast Cuts. Why don't you go on the record and commit to saying which is actually better suited for dry roasting, and or braising... and maybe your comments may be considered useful.

                                                    White Specks are not necessarily the same in every cut of meat. There's a difference between marbling, which is fat....and connective tissue/collagen, which is protein.

                                                    There are any number of factors that may discolor meat. What's fast for florescent lighting? 10, 20, 30 minutes? 45 or an hour? I've seen packaged meat with different sell by dates. Most only appear discolored on the last day of a sell by date...which is always more than 3 days...so maybe not so fast after all. Oxidation is probably a bigger reason and meat sitting it its own blood.. The way an item is package probably has more to do with it than lighting....either with how tightly sealed the foodservice plastic film is wrapped, or whether it was vacuum sealed with gas.

                                                    1. re: DenaGrant

                                                      btw....the little roast with less marbling as you surmised, was actually more juicy and tender and was the Cross Rib Roast. The bigger around one you described has more white specks, but was not more tender, but did have more beefy flavor.

                                                    2. Thank you for doing this. I have a couple of cross rib roasts in my freezer and have been wondering what to do with them.

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: jpc8015

                                                        Thanks for posting your results.
                                                        Great to see another 'low and slow' devotee here.
                                                        One day everyone will do it to enjoy the excellent results. Not to mention our responsibility as sentient humans to honour the food we have been blessed to cosume in this society.
                                                        The days of '450 F' for 3 hours per pound' are thankfully coming to an end. LOL

                                                      2. Thanks for this post. Cross Rib Roast is on sale this week and I think I'll try this.

                                                        1. I have a 2.72 lb Cross Rib Roast. Can I sear it in a pan on my stove-top? How long should I roast it? Thank you, for conducting this lovely experiment.

                                                          10 Replies
                                                          1. re: alyssajane

                                                            You certainly can sear on the stove top and skip the 450* initial browning phase. Depending on size and shape, you can expect at least 2.5 hours and up to 3.5 hours, plus the holding period 20 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the finished temperature you prefer. This would be for a 225* setting. The 2.5 hours would be for rare...3.5 for medium-rare/medium.

                                                            I would suggest the use of a digital thermometer to alert you when it hit your target temperature. If it hits sooner than expected, that's fine, just hold the roast little longer. It actually results in a better roast.

                                                            1. re: fourunder

                                                              Thank you so much for your reply. There is a little plastic pop-up in my roast, unfortunately I do not have a digi thermometer. But I'm much more confident with your info. If I go medium-rare/med will it sacrifice the tenderness?

                                                              1. re: alyssajane

                                                                First, the pop up timer is going to cook you meat past medium...probably 150+ with the carry over effect. i would not rely on it.

                                                                * Pan sear the roast on the stove.

                                                                * When the meat cools, press into the meat to see how soft it is. Now with your open hand, press into your thumb pad to recreate a similar feel(no resistance). Now clench your hand into a fist with your fingers just barely touching your palm. Your middle finger should be in your life line. This slightly firmer feel is how meat is when medium rare, just a slight resistance and slight firm feel. Now squeeze your hand in a fist tight and firmly. this is Medium-Well to Well.

                                                                Check your meat at intervals, beginning at 90, 120, 180.

                                                                * Place the meat on a wire rack on a shallow sheet pan if possible. for maximum air circulation.

                                                                * I don't know the shape of your roast, but 2-2.5 hours usually gets me to the low end of Medium-Rare. 2.5-3...the higher end of MR, low end of Medium.

                                                                * For a guideline for estimation purposes only for cooking time @ 225*, I use 50-60 per pound

                                                                * My experience is you need to hold the roast for a minimum 60 minutes, but 120 is best and it reduces the chance of bleeding. If you slice no more than a 1/4 in against the grain, the meat should be tender with choice grade meat.

                                                                * The meat needs to cool and redistribute the juice into the muscle fibers and allow the natural enzymes to break down the meat. Hot meat has tight muscle fibers. The muscles relax when cooling...and become more tender in effect.

                                                                * All the meat in the pictures were roasted to MR, and allowed to cool. No problems with tenderness. Raw meat is tough to chew. Overcooked meat is tough to chew. Medium Rare or medium is best for this cut as a beef roast. Try cutting your raw roast with a serrated knife or steak knife, and you will see it is not easy. When meat is cooked and still red or pink, the knife glides through much easier.

                                                                1. re: fourunder

                                                                  I cannot thank you enough! It turned out gorgeous! You are the most wonderful person on the internet and I will return for your info the next time I roast something. I hope you are having a lovely day, thanks again for my lovely roast. (:

                                                                  1. re: alyssajane

                                                                    The mere fact you had an enjoyable result...makes my day lovely. Congrats on your success.

                                                                  2. re: fourunder

                                                                    I roasted two chuck roasts following your method with the exception of that I covered the pan tightly. I read on the Internet that chuck benefits from moist cooking to break down the collagen. The problem is that when I took it out of the oven it sat in a nice pool of liquid. I suspect this liquid belongs IN the meat, not in the pan. Any suggestions for a tender chuck?

                                                                    1. re: blackeyedpeas

                                                                      My method is a dry roast on a rack, preferably......covering it tightly caused the meat to steam...Don't cover with the foil next time..

                                                                      This is not a pot roast....it's a beef roast. The pictures should give you the confidence that it works. While the Collagen will not melt completely for medium-rare temperature, it will be soft enough to be enjoyable and not hard so you cannot chew it.

                                                                      1. re: fourunder

                                                                        Thanks! Would you dry age age your chuck? Also, those wonderful pictures you recently posted - how does that compare to a french/brick roast?

                                                                        1. re: blackeyedpeas

                                                                          * Would you dry age age your chuck?

                                                                          I'm a big fan of Dry Aged Beef, and I have also had success with Cryovac Wet Age Beef as well. I don't recall the Number or Name for Chuck Primal or Boxed Beef...but that's is what you would have to have to Dry Age...or cut down and Vacuum Seal for Wet Age for anything over a couple of weeks. any less of time is simply * Air Dryig *, which does aide in removing moisture, but it does not allow enough time to allow the natural enzymes and bacteria to take effect and make their magic happen. The loss of moisture will concentrate the beef flavor somewhat, but not like the true dry age process imho.

                                                                          The reason why the low and slow process is ideal for beef is it * mimics * the dry age process to Naturally tenderize...but it will not give you the nutty flavor of true dry age beef. A combination of Wet Age and Low and Slow temperature roasting has produced quite a few excellent Holiday Prime Ribs & Leg of Lambs. It has also resulted in some pretty good steaks and cheaper cuts for steak like Flat Iron, Hanger and Skirt.

                                                                          * how does that compare to a french/brick roast?

                                                                          If not mistaken, the French/Brick roast is the First Cut/Flat Brisket. To be honest, unless it is Smoked for BBQ or brined for Corned Beef( I prefer the Deckle or Point Cut for taste and tenderness ), I really find it to be a dull, dry and tasteless piece of meat...especially when braised. It is important to note though, that it must be cooked well done to melt any Collagen While the Brisket is traditional for many, especially the Kosher/Jewish community...It is insanely expensive and I have been seeing a trend to substitute the Chuck Roast/Seven Blade Roast instead for the Family gatherings. I won't refuse Brisket, but I prefer the Chuck Roast and Shoulder Clod/Cross Rib. Both suit my tastes better, as I prefer Medium-Rare over Well Done....and I'm not really a pot roast guy.

                                                                          I would suggest you give the following thread a look for varying temperatures to cook Chuck and to see what the finished results look like in pictures. When you get down to the 4 inch, 12 pound Chuck/Seven Blade Roast I made, you will see why I am a big fan of Chuck. That roast only cost me $26 if memory serves me...and it was easily in the Top Five roasts I have ever made...including all the Prime Rib and Strip Loins I've made over the years at holiday time.

                                                                          If you need any further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask...

                                                                          1. re: fourunder

                                                                            Thanks for taking the time to clarify. This is what's available at my local butcher (I'm from NJ): chuck eye, silver tip, flanken roast, standing rib (way too expensive for a weeknight dinner), minute roast (too much gristle), and french roast, which is part of the chuck. None of these cuts looked like those great pictures that you posted.

                                                            2. Hey Professor. With this old thread slipping back into the light of day, I was inspired to snag a pound and three-quarters hunk of chuck eye I saw at Wegman's the other morning. I had plenty of seasonal chores to do around the house and figured a low attention prep might be in order and a roast beef sandwich at the end could be the reward.

                                                              The little chunk of flesh only got two hours of salt while resting on the counter, and, due to a lack of attention, sat in a 300 degree oven for the first twenty minutes of the cook. I lowered the temp to 225 for the next two and a half hours or so. I pulled the meat when it hit 135 and ignored it for the next 60 minutes. Hunger defeated patience and I decided to slice. A mighty fine treat was then enjoyed.

                                                              As always, hat's off, my friend. It's good to know that even though an old 'hound may have yet to master the "play dead" thing, there's still a lot of fun to be had turning new tricks.

                                                              1 Reply
                                                              1. re: MGZ

                                                                As always, hat's off, my friend....

                                                                Right back at cha......as always, you are too kind. I'll have to try the Chuck Eye myself. I hear only good things about the cut.