Cross Rib/Shoulder Roast...vs....Chuck Roast/Blade Roast Challenge , Roasted Low and Slow @ 210* With Pictures

[fourunder]

This past week, the supermarket I frequent most had a sale on beef. Whenever this happens, I always pick up a few Chuck Roasts to have on hand….but this time, I also picked up a Shoulder Roast as well. The sale price for both was only $2.57 per pound…the average price was less than $8 per roast…very reasonable and quite a bargain…especially when you consider I plan to experiment with the beef to see if I will like the final results….or find it was a failure and end up feeding it to my Sister-in-Law’s two dogs…..truth be told, they always get some anyway.

Recently, there has been some interest in finding ways to prepare cuts of beef that I was generally not familiar with, particularly a *Cross Rib Roast*. After doing some research, I have found that this is a cut from the Chuck Section or Shoulder portion of the carcass. The *Cross Rib Roast* is a term more common in the West Coast of the USA…..in Canada it is known as the *Boneless Cross Rib Roast*……..however in many other regions the Alternative Names are : Chuck Shoulder Roast, Boneless Chuck Pot Roast, Arm Pot Roast, Shoulder Clod Roast, English Roll and Shoulder Clod. In my area of New Jersey, it is known simply as a *Shoulder Roast*.

The strange thing about both the Cross Rib Roast and the Chuck Roast…is that they are both believed to be best suited for a braise, as in for a Pot Roast Recipe….but I have found that the Chuck Roast makes for a very nice and flavorful beef roast when dry roasted low and slow to Medium-Rare temperature.. Granted it’s not the most tender option and a few of the muscles are jaw challenging…but with a low and slow roasting, it becomes tender, and for myself, quite enjoyable.

Since the beef was on sale, I thought this would be a good time to find out if the Cross Rib Roast was any good…and how it compared to a Chuck Roast/Blade Roast…roasted low and slow…given the sale price was the same for both.

The preparation and process was simple. I took both cuts of beef and Jaccard Meat Tenderized them. I seasoned both with only Kosher Salt 24 hours in advance of roasting. The following steps details the process:

Seasoned Simply With Kosher Salt For 24 Hours
Removed both roasts from the refrigerator two hours prior to roasting.
Seared both roasts
Both roasts placed atop a grill grate over a sheet pan
Preheated the oven to 450*
Placed the two roasts into the oven and dropped the temperature to 210*
Rotated and Flipped both roasts halfway at 90 minutes.
Pulled the Chuck Roast @ the 3 hour mark, 130 degrees
Pulled the Shoulder/Cross Rib Roast @ 3.5 hours and 135*
Allowed both roasts to rest covered, and or, for 60 minutes @ 140* in the oven
Sliced the beef
You can see the results in the pictures.
Zero bleeding.
Tender Beef

Points to note:

Hands down, the Cross Rib Roast was much more tender than the Chuck Roast…however, the beef flavor was not as pronounced. Given the results, the Shoulder Roast can be a nice alternative, but I still prefer the Chuck Roast, as it offers much more beef flavor. The Cross Rib /Shoulder is more elegant than the Chuck Roast in slicing presentation, but the lack of flavor submits to the little fight and chew the Chuck Roast has for me to prefer it over the Cross Rib Roast in the end. I can see why the Cross Rob/Shoulder is a favorite of many Barbecue enthusiasts. Tender beef with added Smoke flavor.

For the record, I would not braise the Cross Rib Roast Shoulder Roast for pot roast…. The first thing I noticed was how meaty and lean the Cross Rib was compared to the Chuck Roast. I tried a slice of the Chuck first and it was very flavorful but the meat was kind of stringy and had some chew. The Cross Rib Roast was much more tender. The meat is a finer textured than the chuck, In general, I have found whenever roasting beef, the optimal resting time is two hours. Initially, I sliced both beef roasts after a 60 minute resting period. Both roasts were great…..but I gave the overall nod to the Shoulder/Cross Rob Roast for tenderness, The Chuck Roast for flavor. Surprisingly before putting the Cross Rib Roast away…after 2.5 hours covered by a stainless steel bowl. The beef was even more tender and enjoyable. The longer resting period is key for superior results.

My two mandates for roasting any beef:

Roast low and slow

Rest meat for a minimum of two hours

Enjoy the pictures…

[emshryock]

HELP! Thanks for this great article. I am actually cooking a 2lb shoulder roast and a 2lb chuck roast for dinner this evening. I salted them 24 hrs ago and they are currently resting. My big dilemma is figuring out the proper length of time, given that 1) they are smaller and 2) I will be cooking them side-by-side. What do you suggest? Also, what do you think about using the convection oven since I am cooking 2 pieces? I would greatly appreciate any feedback and help you can offer! Many thanks in advance!!!

[fourunder]

Good morning...your roasts are actually considered small since they are under 4 pounds. If you can adhere to the 90-120 minute resting period, I would just cook them both at the same time with at least 4 inches separating the two roasts. Cook on a rack or grill grate over a shallow roasting pan. For small roasts, I would sear on the stove top and i would also flip halfway into cooking and rotate the pan.

i do not recommend the convection oven for low temperature roasting.....it accelerated the finish time, which defeats the purpose of the low temperature method....i.e. to let enzymes naturally break down the meat fibers to tenderize.

I think 4-5 hours is the time allowance you will need to finish the meat to temperature, hold @ 240* or in your oven, and finish your sides. Blast the meat at the end for 5 minutes to bring up to a pleasant serving temperature. No need for a second rest and you can begin slicing immediately upon removal from the oven.

It's hard to tell you which roast will finish sooner, as it depends on the shape of each roast and you do not mention your target temperatures. I find the roast are best at 130-135+ final temperature....the latter especially for the Chuck.

[Puffin3]

Thank you thank you thank you. 'Low and slow's the way to go'. LOL

[fourunder]

Update: Chuck Roast roasted at 200*

When I first conceived of doing this challenge, the meat was on sale at my local supermarket and two different pieces of Chuck Roast were purchased. This piece of meat is about 3 pounds in weight and 1.5 inches thick. It was frozen when purchased and thawed for 3 days in the refrigerator. Pretty much the roast was treated and roasted like all my other slow roasted meats....but this time with slight variations to see how the results would turn out.....for better or worse. No thermometers were used at any time inside the oven, only after 3.5 hours afterwards. This was a straight test simply by setting the oven temperature and hold the roast.. While I agree that a Digital Temperature Probe is useful and can save a lot of angst....I've also maintained that with experience, the thermometer is not necessary and you can produce a great result

* Removed from refrigeration and needled with a Jaccard Meat Tenderizer

* Seasoned with Kosher Salt, Fresh Cracked Black Pepper, Worcestershire Sauce and Soy Sauce....rested for 4 hours to warm to room temperature.

* Seared in a fry pan

* Place on a rack and grill grate

* Placed into a preheated 450* oven and the oven temperature was dropped immediately to 200*

* After 2.5 hours, the oven setting was reduced to 170 for one hour.

* At the 3.5 hour mark, the oven was further reduced to 140* for an additional hour, or 4.5 hours total time spent inside the oven before the oven door was opened. At this time, a digital temperature probe was inserted and the roast registered 135*, or Medium Rare. The roast was removed from the oven and the thermostat was increased to 450* for 10 minutes....the roast was then placed inside the preheated oven for only five minutes to warm the roast for serving temperature.....It was removed and placed onto a cutting board...sliced within 5 minutes of leaving the oven. You can see there is zero bleeding. The four thin slices next to the knives were made after another hour outside the oven. You can see that Carpaccio thin slices were made....Very tender beef. This method is fool proof.

The final conclusion:

* Jaccard Tenderize
* Sear
* Roast @ 200* for 2.5-3.0 Hours
* Hold inside oven for one hour @ 170*
* Hold an additional one hour @ 140*
* High heat blast @ 450* for 5 minutes
* The roast is ready to slice and serve.

[travelerjjm]

I followed your instructions using the cross rib roast. I did put in a remote-read thermometer and found that my y 2.5# roast was at 135 in just under an hour and a half. I rested it covered, but because it was done so early, had to re heat it. I reheated it in a toaster oven (my regular ovens go to 200 and 170 at their lowest) at 160. It took an hour to go from 95 to 135. It tasted and looked wonderful and I'll have the leftovers with a mushroom wine sauce.

I would have taken pix, but it was very similar to yours only slightly redder.

Thanks for the tips!

[fourunder]

Nice job and....Nice to hear you enjoyed the results......since you cannot hold at 140* in your oven, My only suggestion would be to place a bowl or invert a pot over the roast, covered with a bath towel. You could also put it in a cooler, but I deem that step excessive and unnecessary.

Also, you really do not need to bring the roast back up to 135* for serving. Try placing the same size roast back into a 250* oven for 20-30 minutes and finish with a 5 minute high heat blast. That will not cook the roast any further, but will bring it up to a nice serving temperature in a shorter amount of time.

Once you stop the initial cooking process and hold the meat.... you will not cook up the roast using the steps I outlined above.

BTW....did you try salting for 24 hours first?

[travelerjjm]

I did foil and a towel with no cooler.

I did salt 24 hours in advance and it worked well. Thanks.

I'll try the 250 oven with the next one. I live at 8500' so food cools quickly here, even if we warm plates. I knew I wouldn't cook it at 160 or anything, but I wanted it hot.

BTW, my wife was a bit skeptical and had always made it as pot roast so she was quite surprised with the good flavor and texture. Thanks, again.

[happygoluckyinoregon]

I have a 4.2 pound boneless chuck roast that I want to slow roast according to your directions. I will then saute some fresh mushrooms in butter and pour the juices in to top the sliced meat with ( for Christmas).

How long would be suggest cooking at 225º for this roast? I want it to be medium rare when served. Thanks for the wonderful descriptions and photos, I had a feeling it could be baked and just found your site. I plan on Christmas dinner, so need an answer within a few weeks:-)

[scubadoo97]

I'd suggest you get a wired probe thermometer and monitor your roast and pull it at 135-140*. These thermometers are inexpensive if you don't have one and will be a good tool for future use. Allow for a generous resting time for best results

[trillen]

Most don't have an immersion circulator at home, but my wife purchased one for me a few months ago as an early birthday gift and I recently sous vide a chuck roast for 24 hours at 132 degrees. It came out great - the cheap cut was transformed into a wonderfully tender piece of beef.

http://modernistfoodie.blogspot.com

[fourunder]

Nice job.....out of curiosity....how do you determine the length of time the roast needs to sit in the water bath...i.e., why not 6, 12 or 18 hours instead.

Thanks.

[trillen]

Thanks. I'm not a science guru but as far as I understand it, the long length of time is required to soften the collagen present in the connective tissues that make the beef tough. Weight-bearing muscles and muscles that are used frequently contain higher amounts of collagen than muscles that aren't used as much. Collagen is a long, stiff protein and its structure makes it very strong and difficult to break down. However, when cooked slowly and for a long time, the collagen becomes gelatin, thus making the meat tender.

I chose 24 hours based on some other recipes I saw, and I assume this time frame is required to make the meat tender enough. You could probably cook it for less time with satisfactory results but the meat just won't be quite as tender.

http://modernistfoodie.blogspot.com

[fourunder]

First, the advice scubadoo97 gives about a digital probe thermometer is sound and recommended.....and it will definitely give you the confidence to achieve a great final result ....but in lieu of that any probe thermometer will also work just as well if you follow the following guidelines.

Here's a similar tutorial thread I started specifically for Chuck Roasts. I experimented with various thickness cuts and weights, cooked them at different temperatures and to varying degree of temperature doneness. Give it a read. Basically, both threads are essentially the same for method and approach.

Special Note: For Smaller/Thinner Roasts 5 pounds and under, I prefer to pan sear the roast on the stove top, rather than with a high heat blast in the oven at the beginning.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/757268

The greatest concern for your results to come out as you expect is to pay attention to the thickness, and not the total weight. A thinner roast will cook to temperature faster than a thicker one. Examples of results in the thread I linked shows you where I made a rookie mistake in allowing a heavier, but thinner roast to be overcooked to medium by overlooking this simple precaution.

Based on the details you have provided, I would do the following:

* Take out of the fridge two hours in advance
* Pan Sear and place on a rack over a sheet pan.
* Place in a 215-225* oven
* Rotate and flip the roast halfway at 90 minutes.
* Expect 2.5-3.5 hours depending on your oven to reach 130-135*. Make your first check at 2.5 hours, but don't be surprised if it takes 3 or more hours
* Hold for a minimum 1 hour , but 2 hours is better.
* You can hold in a 140* (Lowest Warm Oven Setting) without covering. Once it hits temp, you can open the door for a few minutes to allow the heat to escape first.
* Before serving, return to oven for a 8-10 high heat blast
* Remove from oven and slice immediately....no second rest is necessary.

In general, I would expect about 5 hours total time to finish the roast.....3 to cook and 2 to hold. If the roast finishes sooner, no problem, as I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period...You can also hold the roast outside the oven ....I cover with a large stainless steel mixing bowl and wrap it with a towel if I need to user the oven for other items. ...other wise I just keep it in the oven. If I do need to use the oven, then once the sides are finished, I'll put the roast back into the oven at 250* for 20-30 minutes to warm the roast before the high heat blast @ 450*....Don't worry about the 250 warm-up phase, it is not a recook. After the blast, you can slice immediately, no second rest is necessary.

Should you need any other specific questions or concerns, please feel free to post your queries and I'll come back and answer or explain further.

For the record, @ 225* the method is very forgiving and it's practically impossible to over-cook....even if you leave it in the oven 30 minutes longer than expected.....that's why the wide range for cooking times. I rarely use a digital probe thermometer...as I'm not anal about exact temperatures, but Ive cooked so many by now that I can simply use the finger poke test and my experience gives me the approximate times to begin checking the roasts. ...it also helps to know your oven.

However, I will concede I do use a simple probe thermometer to check the final results at the end

[scubadoo97]

The recommendation of the wired probe was to keep from opening the oven and dealing with recovery time.

No question a good finger poke with a good frame of reference is more than adequate

[happygoluckyinoregon]

this is just waaaaaaay to complex for me. Thanks for all of that information, but all I wanted to actually know was about how long, but I failed to tell you that my roast is about 3" thick and 4.2 pounds. So, knowing that and since I don't want to buy yet another oven thermometer, I already have a very good digital one that I put in when testing, do you have any idea about how long to cook it for the 135º temp and then rest. I will brown it first on high in an iron skillet. Thanks for any advice.

[fourunder]

From above.......

In general, I would expect about 5 hours total time to finish the roast.....3 to cook and 2 to hold. If the roast finishes sooner, no problem, as I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period

[happygoluckyinoregon]

Thank you so much, you are so much help to all of us. I have been cooking for 50 years and everyone says I am an excellent cook, but still there is always something new to learn. I think that's why so many of us love it, its a creative process. Might be very brave to try this on Christmas day with my son and daughter, I was going to do a nice pot roast with a dark roux to thicken the gravy and still might and save the experiment for the next time. but I def am going to do it, too much of a challange not to:-)

[scubadoo97]

"I believe the key to the tender meat is in the longer resting period"

I agree and this is often overlooked and one wants to cut into that hot steak in anticipation of perfection when perfection requires patience.

[cookinglisa]

fourunder;

Can you do this method for steak too. Not often but sometimes, I buy a nice piece of steak and then Ruin it when I cook ( or at least it isn't as tender and flavorful as I would like).

I have tried your slow roast for chuck roast and it tasted wonderful, then tried it last week for New York steak (and it was overcooked and not tender as I was expecting.

(if you dont slow roast your steak, how do you cook a steak so that it is rare inside but tender and not overcooked on the outside?)

[scubadoo97]

For a steak the reverse sear works really well.
Pop you seasoned steak in a low 225-250 oven until it's around 90-100 internal and finish it in a hot cast iron pan or hot grill and take it to your preferred internal. I shoot for 135-140 and then let it rest for a good 15+ min

You are shooting for a good crust that isn't too thick so the meat will look pretty much red/pink edge to edge. You could also use a torch to crust the outside if you take it to near finishing temp in the oven.

Here again a good instant read thermometer works wonders or a knowledgeable finger poke.

[fourunder]

scubadoo97,

Have you noticed any notable differences in the results of using 225*, as opposed to 275*? I have no allegiance to 275*....I used it only because that's the number I read when reading about it for cooking steaks and the reverse sear process...

thanks,

[scubadoo97]

Don't think it makes a difference except in time to get to target temp.

I'm not a by the book cook

[fourunder]

First, sorry to hear about the less than stellar results.

You must realize that at times, regardless of our best efforts, sometimes you just get a clunker for a piece of meat and no matter what you do to it, it will not be good. With that said, I believe you need to purchase steaks that are thicker, rather than thinner to give you the best opportunity to allow the cooking process to work it;s magic. Time is ingredient needed to allow the meat to break down naturally and allow the enzymes to break the muscle fibers down. I also believe you need to allow the meat to rest....for a steak a minimum 10 minutes. Myself, I recommend steaks should be a minimum 1.5 inches thick...but I prefer steaks yo be 2-3 inches thick if possible. Rather than individual steaks, I would rather have one large steak for two. I believe they cook better.

You can use the low and slow approach with a few modifications, or adjustments. Instead of 225*, use 275*. Start with a room temperature steak (60*) and cook on a rack until it hits a temperature of 90-110* internal temperature. From there you do a reverse sear in a fry pan. If you like a lot of char or crust, then use the lower 90*, so you can leave it on the fire a longer on both side to create the crust.

Have a look at the following thread and I show the method and process I recently did with a Top Sirloin Steak. It came out very good and I was quite surprised with the results.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/866603

[happygoluckyinoregon]

can someone tell me how to get out of a certain discussion once I have the answer I need. I have about 12 emails on this one subject and have written down the recipe to try and don't need anymore, but thank everyone for the help.

[splatgirl]

Thank you for posting this awesomeness! I had the remnants of my last side of beef hanging around in the freezer--three random large cuts that I did this way yesterday. I had a sirloin roast, arm roast and what looked like a x-blade roast. All three came out super tasty and surprisingly tender. Edible in the med-rare and sliced state, which is such a treat from what were basically two pot roasts. I did not tenderize any of them. All were from an organic, 100% pastured cow and I have been underwhelmed with the texture of the other large bits I've roasted less than to falling apart. The 24 hour salting thing makes a huge difference, I think. And the low and slow, of course. The sirloin roast is the best I've made or tasted.
Also notable to me is the flavor/tenderness trade offs you've pointed out. What a fun taste test!

[fourunder]

Thanks for the comments....unless it's a backyard barbecue, I find I do not indulge in having steaks at home as frequently as I used to....but to be honest, I find some of these inexpensive cuts of beef to have some real value and I may actually enjoy them more. The meat has punch and I find I do need to eat as much red meat to be satisfied for my urges and cravings.....plus the fact there will always be a little for leftovers.

[Brandon Nelson]

It is nice to see someone discovering the shoulder clod sub primal. If you have not already indulged try a flatiron roast next. It will become one of your favorites.

[fourunder]

Thanks....I have been enjoying Flat Iron before I knew it was called Flat Iron.....only as Top Blade. I agree, it's arguably the most tender and flavorful cut of beef available.

[sparky403]

Belive it or not - chuck roast (also called 7 blade roast / steak) is my favoite bit of beef for the Grill when there's a crowd involed.

I beat it up with a meat hammer a bit, dejon, wishy sauce, S&P and coffee. since it's one thickness it cooks up a bit better than say a tri-tip... Anyway, I love it... give it a try.

[fourunder]

I cannot argue with you about the virtues of grilled meat.....my only question is.....what is *Wishy Sauce*?

[kcshigekawa]

Worcestershire, perhaps?

[scubadoo97]

Fantastic tutorial highlighting the differences between these two roasts. You sure know how to roast a hunk of meat. Great job!

[fourunder]

Thank you...

[sandylc]

Great info! Thanks! Funny, I have always considered both of these cuts to need braising until totally done throughout. It is good to see that they can be rosy and still chewable.

[fourunder]

Here's a similar thread I posted for the Chuck Roast Specifically. You can see the different results in pictures for varying finished temperatures. Well done beef is not my thing..

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/757268

[MGZ]

Another huge contribution to the Site, Professor. Thanks. As usual, I look forward to taking your learning and applying it to my cooks - most likely on the offset.

[fourunder]

As always....you are too kind.

[GretchenS]

I get so excited when I see one of these posts of yours, fourunder! I am sorry if you said and I did not see it, but which one is the rounder one and which the flatter one? Both look gorgeous...

[fourunder]

I'm thankful and glad you like both my style and approach....it is greatly appreciated.

The flat roast is the Chuck Roast.

The round shape roast is the Cross Rib.. The meat was sliced on the bias at 45* angle, not at a 90* angle to the side edges

The Chuck weighed 2.75 pounds and the Cross Rib weighed 3.15 pounds.

[travelerjjm]

Fantastic info! Nice pix.

I have never salted 24 hours in advance. Can you talk a bit about this? I have always heard 1 hour, max.

I have never rested in the oven. I will have to try this. I have done the FTC that many smokers do (after smoking a roast -- pork or beef -- wrap in foil, then the foil in a towel and put that in a small cooler for a couple of hours).

[fourunder]

I am not qualified to give any scientific reasons for the 24 hour seasoning....other than to say it seasons the beef and I suspect it draws out some moisture to concentrate the beef flavor.....possibly tenderizing a little bit as well..

For Standing Rib Roasts, I actually salt 48 hours in advance.....Seasoning all areas from the top, pulling apart the deckle or fat cap to season the eye, and partially removing the bones to season the bottom of the eye and the ribs...before tying the roast back up.

As for the one hour rule....I suspect that would be for a steak., not a roast.

[travelerjjm]

Interesting. Thanks. I will try it. I generally dry-age standing rip roasts, but I don't salt.

[fourunder]

With regards to the 24 hour salting of beef....Cooks Illustrated/ America's Test Kitchen, researched and experimented with Eye Round. Many feel the salt aids in tenderizing the meat....you may want to research the original story and they may be able to provide more specifics on the salting process and it's effects on the meat.

[fourunder]

U P D A T E D ! ! !

F Y I..........PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT! ! !

IMPORTANT INFORMATION WHEN SELECTING CHUCK ROAST BEEF! ! !

IF YOU INTEND TO TOAST TO MEDIUM-RARE TEMPERATURE, YOU MUST READ THIS FIRST! ! !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My most recent Chuck Roast was made following the usual low and slow method as outlined here.....but the outcome was far from perfect and basically inedible....either a poor piece of meat....or just a poor pick for expecting a tender and flavorful roast....I suspect the latter, as the meat was super tough roasted to 135*.....and given the the connective tissue and collagen doesn't melt under 140*.

Although the pictures look fine....the meat was not chewable.

My conclusion is you need to select meat without the heavy white collagen...not to be confused with the marbling you see in Strip Steaks and Rib Eyes. In the last two pictures, for a Medium-Rare/Medium target roast, you need to select a leaner piece of meat like thE last picture of pink meat, not the darker red one....which would be more suitable for an actual braised pot roast or roast beef cooked past medium temperature.

[Brandon Nelson]

A larger cut benefits from a loner time with salt simply because it takes longer for the salt to pull the juices out of the meat, mix with the juices, and reabsorb into the meat.

This process can happen in an hour with a steak, but takes considerably longer with bigger cuts.