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Mauviel M150 skillet vs All Clad tri-ply (aluminum)

I saw a good deal on an M150 at TJ Maxx today. I've read several times on this site and others that a 1.5mm copper base is not that great.
Disregarding the difference in price, would an All Clad tri-ply skillet be better than the M150 because of its thin copper?

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  1. <that a 1.5mm copper base is not that great.>

    There is no true cut off for any material. It isn't like 1.5 mm is bad, and then it suddenly becomes great at 2.0 mm. A thinner copper pan gives you better heat response, but it is not as even heating as a thicker one. It is a gradual process.

    <would an All Clad tri-ply skillet be better than the M150 >

    What is the definition of "better" here?

    They both have 18/10 stainless steel for the cooking surface (interior layer). Thus, they will have similar food release/sticking property.

    An All Clad triply cookware is unlikely to give you much better even heating surface or heat response. Its clear and distinctive advantages are:

    (1) ease of care -- with stainless steel on the interior and exterior surfaces of the All Clad pan, it can be out in dishwasher for clean, it can be soaked in a bath of water for days...etc. A Mauriel M' Heritage skillet cannot.
    (2) structural strength -- with relatively thick stainless steel on the both sides of the All Clad pan, it may provide additional structural strenght which the M150 may not.
    (3) induction ready -- All Clad triply is induction ready, not M150.

    1. Hi, danskim:

      The comparison here is between lightning fast and slightly uneven (the Mauviel), and slower and slightly uneven (the A-C).

      The lining of the Mauviel is no more than 0.2mm, whereas each of the SS layers in the A-C is 0.41mm. So you're looking at 4x the stainless to mute the heat response with the A-C.

      If you haven't cooked on copper, perhaps the thinner Mauviel would be a good introduction. If you like it, you can add thicker pans.

      For me, it would also depend on how good a deal the M150 was at TJMaxx. If it's >$125-150, you'd be better off buying thicker vintage copper on eBay.

      Aloha,
      Kaleo

      1. Get the Try- Ply. The M150 might look better but are we after good looks or long lasting quality?

        11 Replies
        1. re: diamond dave

          and the AllClad has a life time warranty

          1. re: lcool

            Yeah, but I think the M150 also has a Manufacturer's Lifetime warrenty too. I won't worry too much about warranty for these cookware.

            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

              The M150 has some warranty wrinkles that the AC doesn't.

              1. re: lcool

                Yeah, but if you wouldn't *want* an A-C replacement, the warranty's a joke.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                    I am not AllClad's biggest user,I own much more from other high ticket houses Us and Europe.That said,AC is the easiest to deal with regarding warranty only two others come close.
                    Call AC,me,this happened,AC,shouldn't have,me OK now what,AC send pan and we will send you a new one,me,small problem,this is a one of in this house and used weekly,AC you use it that OFTEN,I'll get supervisor so we can work this out.Work it out they did,had it in,sent it out the same day and I returned mine in the same box.
                    No inquisition,yes service ...quite different from after we see,we'll decide

                    1. re: lcool

                      Hi, lcool:

                      That's great, more companies should be that way. It speaks volumes about the company, less so about the comparative worth of the pan.

                      Out of curiosity, what was your issue/defect with the A-C?

                      I would have only minor durability issues about the M150 vis-a-vis the A-C, and as I said above, the choice between them is close. If it was M250 vs. A-C, IMO the Mauviel wins by a significant margin.

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo

                      1. re: kaleokahu

                        If a defect,it never would have appeared at the inspection level and maybe never if I hadn't used the piss out of it.So it was a bit of both.AC was honestly shocked when they heard my use numbers and have since made a minute change.AC sent me an email at that time,offering me one at a SUBSTANTIAL discount.I begged and groveled a bit and they sold me 2.
                        Another X,sister has a venerable old name,very high end gas grill.One burner at two years,caput and one on it's way out.Sis,called factory to ?,F the shortest warranty on any part is 4 years,we'll send new .Sis gets new burners,full set because F wanted all the old back to figure out what happened.Sis gets phone call from factory,how often do you grill? Sis 300 days a year,F,WHAT??!!FOR REAL?Sis,yes,five days a week on average.They were stunned,she was wearing the damn things out.Something they never expected inside the warranty of 4 plus years.

                        Your take on the Mauviel M250 vs AC ,agree completely ....Mauviel M150 isn't the durable work horse,ergo for me AC.

                        1. re: lcool

                          Hi, lcool:

                          I must have missed the failure modality... Delamination? Handle breakage? Warpage?

                          Aloha,
                          Kaleo

                          1. re: kaleokahu

                            it was heading toward ?handle,warp issues,in the just right light only,developed a visual ? curve,bulge,new colour below a handle near where one side attaches,
                            about half the size of a tooth pick.
                            Got my attention because of the colour cast nothing like you see when metal,a knife etc simply discolours a tad or a lot,plus ?,I could almost feel it.
                            I am responsive to little things regarding metal,glass or porcelain,pottery glazes etc,much that isn't visible but the blind man,braille touch can find does often play a role in durability,half life etc of an inorganic product.
                            You should be here when I do the canning jar check.

            2. I really dislike the All-Clad handles.

              For similar money, I bought TWO Demeyere Atlantis/Proline skillets. The 11" was $200 and the 9.5" was $150. Those are the size of the base, add ~1 inch for the rim diameter. These skillets are absolutely fabulous. Great comfortable handles, welded handles so no rivets, and VERY even heating even with my substandard source.

              17 Replies
              1. re: Sid Post

                <I really dislike the All-Clad handles.>

                I think I can say with confidence that I dislike All Clad handle as much as any other person. I was considering buying All Clad cookware until I held the saucepan -- it was very uncomfortable. I have tried to hold the All Clad cookware everynow and then when I walk by them in departmental stores, and still do not like the feel. I haven't given the new design a fair try, but I certainly did not like the previous/original handle.

                That being said, I have been thinking that it isn't a big deal if I just use a towel and wrap around the handle. You know, like what many restaurant chefs/cooks do for restaurant cookware.

                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                  Why compromise with an expensive pan? Demeyere Atlantis is approximately the same price and doesn't suffer from an uncomfortable handle that REQUIRES you to use a towel. One saucepan and two skillets later I'm in the market for more.

                  1. re: Sid Post

                    For skillets, how would folks compare Demeyere Proline vs. a Mauviel or Falk 2.5mm stainless lined copper?

                    How about for saute pans?

                    Thanks!

                    1. re: iyc_nyc

                      Hi, iyc:

                      The Proline skillet is a 7-layer bar of aluminum and aluminum alloys inside SS, the inner layers of which are of unknown thickness, but reasonably scant.. The Mauviels and Falks are 2.3mm of copper with a 0.2mm SS lining.

                      To be the conductive equivalent of 2.3mm of copper, these layers in the Demeyere would have to be >4mm thick, which I doubt they are. But the Proline can be DW'd and is considerably cheaper. They're all good pans, but the mark of the best clad is still that it *approximates* copper. Why approximate?

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo

                      1. re: kaleokahu

                        Kaleo - super helpful, thanks. I've tried a Mauviel 2.3mm and now understand why you're such a copper fan.

                        Do you essentially use copper for everything, including for applications that most folks might use an LC dutch oven for? Put another way, have you found any cooking usage for which copper isn't the best material?

                        Thanks again..

                        1. re: iyc_nyc

                          Hi, iyc_nyc:

                          You're certainly welcome.

                          To try to answer your question, I've gradually come around to using tinned copper for the vast majority of my cooking. It's not exclusive yet, but each new or specialty piece seems to force early retirement of its non-copper equivalent. My infamous LC 5.5 oven is now a single-tasker, used only for no-knead bread (because it needs to be pre-heated for an extended time at 450F). I still have and use square and round bare CI skillets for high heat searing and roasting, and I am a recent convert to exceptionally thick bare aluminum for a dedicated omelet/crepe pan.

                          Regarding "best material" for different uses, much depends on thickness. Thin is good for some things, bad for others. In the 21st C., unfortunately, you really can't find new copperware thicker than nominal 3mm. Above that thickness, some use-specific magic happens, having less to do with copper's excellent conductivity, and more to do with it's hidden talent: it's high specific heat and thermal diffusivity numbers. A >3mm skillet, e.g., would make people rethink the primacy of cast iron for "holding" heat for searing (as would a >6mm aluminum one). But because they--and a host of other pan and bakeware configurations--simply aren't available new anymore, "best" now has a semi-retrograde reality in the applications where very thick copper shines.

                          To be fair, "best" in use-specificity favors some other materials in some applications, at least at the margin or as returns diminish significantly with cost. I still believe that a very thick copper stocker is superior to a aluminum-disk-bottomed SS equivalent, yet admit that the margin borders on the insignificant and the price differential begs weeping.

                          Offhand, the only useages that occur to me that the appropriate thickness of copper wouldn"t work at least as well as other materials might be (a) a wok, and (b) an underground oven, like an imu. And I'm not even sure about those (a *very* thin copper wok--if it could maintain its integrity--might be excellent).

                          However, all the above said, I confess that I've yet to dabble deep into the world of tajine, Romertopf, dolsot, etc., cooking. Perhaps copper can't compete in those areas. Time will tell...

                          Aloha,
                          Kaleo

                          1. re: kaleokahu

                            Kaleo, thanks so much for this. Now have to figure out tradeoffs between Demeyere Proline fry and saute pans, and 2.3mm Mauviel -- especially given your last posting re: Demeyere having 2mm copper layer (?).

                            I have a stone dolsot and a clay tagine and bet they'd outperform their equivalents in copper. :-)

                            1. re: iyc_nyc

                              Hi, iyc:

                              You're very welcome, of course.

                              In the Proline v. M250 light heavyweight bout, you can expect the latter to be more responsive and the former more...convenient and affordable.

                              This sounds one-sided, but it's not entirely--I like Demeyere's handle ergonomics and cool-ness better than Mauviel's. If you find the M handles overly "turny" as I do, you might compare with Bourgeat.

                              Have Fun.

                              Aloha,
                              Kaleo

                      2. re: iyc_nyc

                        Obviously, all three are good cookware. The obvious difference is that Demeyere Proline is mutliclad with aluminum layers as the core -- 7 layers total (4.8 mm total). Very thick. Induction ready with an exterior induction compatible stainless steel layer, and dishwasher safe since both exterior and interior layers are stainless steel.

                        I would not judge the Demeyere for being worse because it is aluminum based and not copper based. Aluminum is an excellent heat conductor which diffuses heat very quickly. The ability of aluminum to heat up across its surface is nearly the same as copper, not more than 20% difference.

                        Material Thermal diffusivity
                        Copper 120 X 10-6 m2/s
                        Aluminum 100 X 10-6 m2/s

                        http://www.cookingforengineers.com/ar...

                        Mauvial and Falk copper cookware are bimetal design which means their core (as well as exterior) is copper, and the interior surface is stainless steel. This means that in theory these copper cookware will response quicker to heat -- not really because it is made out of copper instead of aluminum, but because the total stainless steel layer is thinner. Obviously, Mauvial and Falk bimetal designs are really to take advantage of gas stoves, and won't work well on induction stove top. They are not dishwasher recommended.

                        I think you should pick whichever one fits best to your lifestyle. If you like to use dishwasher to clean, to leave cookware in a sink for 2-3 days, or to use induction cooking, then very obviously that Demeyere Proline is better. If you think heat response is the most important factor and that you will use gas stove, then Mauviels and Falk are better for you. Finally, I like to ask to take a small step back. Once we are starting to compare high end cookware, their differences become smaller and smaller. So diminishing return comes in. At this point, it may be more productive to look at other variables such as the stoves themselves. For example, putting expensive tires on a poor performance car probably do not yield the best return.

                        All three cooking surfaces (interior) are 18/10 stainless steel, so they should be similar in this regard.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                          Thanks, Chem - this makes a ton of sense. I have definitely noticed a difference cooking with copper vs Demeyere - wasn't sure if Demeyere over outshone copper (especially the Proline pans since they they are so substantial).

                          1. re: iyc_nyc

                            <wasn't sure if Demeyere over outshone copper>

                            Your welcome. Again, it depends what you are looking for. For something Demeyere Proline outshine Copper. For others, the other way around. This is why it is important to see which cookware work best for your style. As you can see below, Sid Post prefer Demeyere Proline to be superior for his needs.

                        2. re: iyc_nyc

                          "For skillets, how would folks compare Demeyere Proline vs. a Mauviel or Falk 2.5mm stainless lined copper?"

                          I own Mauviel 2.5mm stainless lined cookware. I'm currently buying Demeyere Atlantis. I'm speaking with my wallet, not my keyboard.

                          The Mauviel is really good cookware but, I'm not cooking on gas right now. Hand washing isn't a problem for me but, I under appreciated welded handles versus riveted handles. I don't have a dishwasher so, not scrubbing around the rivets is a real advantage to me right now. The handle shape and contour on the Demeyere Atlantis is really nice; fitting my bare hand easily, balancing nicely, clearing other pans, etc.

                          For $150 for the 9.5" skillet and $200 for the 11" skillet and 3.2 quart saucepan, I would gladly sell a Mauviel pan or two to replace them if they were lost for some reason. On a portable electric hot plate, these pans heat EVENLY all the way across. The edges of the Proline/Atlantis skillets cook just as well as the center which is pretty amazing on an ~8" disc hotplate IMHO. Other skillets would scorch in the center and leave uncooked food at the edges of where the hotplate disc was.

                          The Demeyere Atlantis pans also don't tarnish so there are no worries about an even patina, polishing, etc.

                          1. re: Sid Post

                            Thanks, Sid - immensely helpful. It was your original posts that got me thinking about proline vs. copper. You make a compelling case!

                            1. re: iyc_nyc

                              Your welcome! I was exactly where you are at one time. After spending my money and using the pans, I am more informed today. I'm not likely to buy any more copper cookware but, I definitely see more Demeyere Atlantis products in my future.

                              I also won't be buying any more All-Clad cookware. What I have is destined for ebay or something similar after the holidays. I'll gladly trade two-for-one to get more Demeyere Atlantis cookware!!!!

                              1. re: Sid Post

                                <I definitely see more Demeyere Atlantis products >

                                I know you dislike All Clad handle, and so do I (you know this).

                                Let's say All Clad completely changes its handle design and now become equal or even better than Demeyere's handle. Would that change your purchase pattern?

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                  No. The Demeyere Atlantis pans seem to be optimized better for specific cooking purposes. All-Clad is good but not as good as the Demeyere Atlantis line.

                        3. re: Sid Post

                          <Why compromise with an expensive pan?>

                          hmm.... good point.... I don't have an answer for this one. In a month or two, I may think of some reasons.

                    2. Although I LOVE tin lined copper, for so many reasons, I have to add to the kudos for the Demeyere Proline fry pans. I have the 11" size and it is just fabulous in evenness of heat and how the food cooks. I cook on gas, and I will continue to cook on gas. I like cooking on a flame, and this pan is super on it. If a similar 3 mm copper, tin lined pan where available for less than the cost of my first car, I will get it, but the $500-600 prices of these dream pans keep them out of my reach.