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Should ugly people stay away from upscale restaurants?

When CHers dine in a high-end restaurant, would they feel that the experience is spoiled by the presence of an ugly customer? I have hideous acne scarring all over my face, and I would like to know if foodies feel that should exclude me from better quality restaurants.

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  1. Why only "better quality" restaurants? Don't you look the same in Burger King as you do in Le Bernardin?

    1. Heavens no. Anyone who feels that way should be excluded from the planet Earth.

      1. NO NO and NO ...Speaking for me and mine....NO not a chance at all ever.This isn't in the same realm as smoking or really shirty children or boisterous drunks!!!!

        1 Reply
        1. Oh my goodness, no! Shouldn't even have to be a consideration. And for anyone who feels otherwise, they have an inner ugliness problem far greater than any external lack of "perfect" aesthetics could display.

          1 Reply
          1. re: jlhinwa

            +++ Infinity

            I am hoping the OP started this thread just to yank a few chains.

          2. If by ugly you mean loud, insensitive types who think the world revolves around them then yes, ugly people should stay away from upscale restaurants. Nothing else matters.

            5 Replies
                  1. re: steve h.

                    Oh, I should have read the thread before responding.

                    + a gazillion.

                    1. re: LindaWhit

                      I am doubling down on your gazillion.

                  2. I am supposing here that you are asking an honest question and are not a troll looking for a heated response. (sorry, but that does happen here). In that case, outward appearance should not be a factor. Assuming you are suitably dressed for the type of restaurant and behave accordingly, why shouldn't you dine where you please?

                    If you, personally, have an issue with your apearance, then that is a topic for another forum.

                    1. That should never cross someone's mind. Everyone deserves to eat where they want to. The only problems I care about are attitude based.

                      1. Your condition is not really under your control. So no, it wouldn't be a concern. Unless you were actually popping zits at your table.

                        And before anyone laughs, I've seen it done.

                        1. How does this question even enter someones mind?

                          2 Replies
                          1. re: rasputina

                            sounds like the OP is unfortunately quite self-conscious. I hope she learns that most of us don't gauge beauty from the outside.

                            1. re: sunshine842

                              As someone who has spent parts of his adult life being both obese and skinny (during which time I was considered very attractive by most people), I can say that the difference in the way society treats attractive and unattractive people is incredible, so I can certainly understand her question. People are willing to forgive many other things if one is physically attractive, it seems. Unfortunate, but true.

                            1. I ain't gunna win no pretty contest. I've always felt welcomed. Go for it, enjoy, don't worry about it.

                              1. Absolutely no. You should dine where you would like! In my experience, most people in restaurants are thinking more about their dining experience (and their food!) than thinking about the appearance of other patrons.

                                1. I think I remember having seen other threads on this board about "uncool," overweight, or older people receiving inferior service, being seated at the worst and least visible tables, etc. Maybe this is what the OP is referring to? It seems like this kind of discrimination is more likely to happen at "trendy" or "cool" restaurants rather than upscale ones, though.

                                  8 Replies
                                  1. re: brighton312

                                    Thankfully there is such a thing as supply and demand. If we refuse to eat at any establishment snobby enough to discriminate against people who don't adhere to some obtuse standard of beauty, then they will either have to change or go out of business. As long as you are not trying to eat at a five star restaurant in dirty sweats and flip flops, you need to hold your head up high and demand not to be sat in the back. As for your acne scars, please keep in mind that many people have them (my dad included). You can always get them lasered off, but keep in mind that many people who get plastic surgery become addicted, because the surgery does not guarantee confidence or inner beauty.

                                    1. re: NicoleFriedman

                                      While I do agree with you on many points, I fail to understand <<Thankfully there is such a thing as supply and demand.>> as I see it in action, almost every day, when one thinks of the economy.

                                      If there is zero demand, even a restaurant, that charges US $ 10,000 per meal, will never survive. Maybe you are thinking of something else?

                                      There are many thousand examples of a lack of demand, and the failure of a restaurant, a company or a corporation.

                                      Hunt

                                      1. re: Bill Hunt

                                        "If there is zero demand, even a restaurant that charges $1000 per meal will never survive." That was my point exactly. Obviously our economic situation today is far more complicated, but that is beyond the scope of this thread. My point was that the customers are largely to blame for keeping "trendy" places going... If we vote with our wallets, policies of discrimination based on appearances that cannot be helped will be stopped. (I personally have no issue with a restaurant not allowing a customer to come in with pants falling off their butt, however:) )
                                        To pollymerase, please reread my post; I absolutely was not advocating plastic surgery,
                                        . Rather, I was pointing out how plastic surgery often does not fix the larger problem, in this case a lack of self esteem and confidence.

                                        1. re: NicoleFriedman

                                          "Plastic surgery?" Sorry, but I missed any, and all, references to plastic surgery. I was commenting on "Supply & Demand," and that economic topic only.

                                          Not sure where you are coming from there, but I am missing something major.

                                          Hunt

                                          1. re: Bill Hunt

                                            it's quite clear NicoleFriedman addressed that portion of her reply to pollymerase, not to you.

                                            1. re: mariacarmen

                                              Thank you. I was at a loss, but then had not Expand(ed) All, so missed it. I should have looked at other replies, in about the same place in the thread.

                                              Appreciated,

                                              Hunt

                                      2. re: NicoleFriedman

                                        There is zero need to get plastic surgery to go out to eat. Go eat drink and be merry just as you are.

                                      3. re: brighton312

                                        Now, I am definitely "older," and no longer as svelte, as I once was. However, I have almost never had any issue with my table, or my service. Now, I am always well-dressed, plus I usually have my lovely wife at my elbow, but still, I can count the few "bad tables" on one hand.

                                        Actually, there are several restaurants that "know my table," and they are not in my home town, but at least 600 miles away.

                                        Now, were I dressed in cut-offs and a tank tops, and wearing flip-flops to those same restaurants (all "fine-dining" establishments), were I seated, I would NOT expect it to be at a "high-visibility" table. Were I the maître d’hôtel for that restaurant, I would try to seat anyone, so long as they met the "minimum dress requirements," but probably not out in a prime table, where everyone could observe them. Give me a well-dressed couple, and they would likely get a more prominent table.

                                        Just my thinking,

                                        Hunt

                                      4. Dear Lady,

                                        Good Lord, no! So you had acne and have the scars to show it? Acne schmacne. In restaurants, as in life, beauty is as beauty does.

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: pinehurst

                                          better said than mine,even if the same

                                        2. Ugly comes from behavior, not from how a person looks. If someone treats you in an negative way, for your scars, they are the ugly ones.

                                          Please hold your head high, relax and enjoy. Your happiness will shine and that enhances everything.

                                          8 Replies
                                          1. re: Quine

                                            Very nicely put. This is so very true.

                                            My brother law was seriously burned in a house fire but he does not allow that to prevent him from doing what he enjoys such as eating out. If people judge him (or others) that is their issue, not his or yours. He is a beautiful person and exudes positivity and warmth. Others gravitate towards him because of his winning personality. I bet the same goes for you as well.

                                            1. re: Quine

                                              When I saw the topic, "behavior" was my first thought. Then I read the OP, and was actually taken aback. I would much rather dine with Joseph Merrick, than any of the highly obnoxious "beautiful people, " who I too often encounter. Actually, a good friend has great facial disfigurement, and he is a lovely dining companion, and I am proud to have him at our table, especially as he served the USA with gallantry, and class, and is a perfect gentleman. Plus, he's more witty, than I will ever be.

                                              Hunt

                                              1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                I thought so too, Hunt. I cannot imagine excluding someone from my dining party because they do neet meet a fickle societal standard for beauty. I can imagine excluding someone from my party because they are ugly in personality.

                                                My gorgeous little boy had a burns accident when he was very young and while we have a world class burns surgeon in our city he still suffers some scarring. It breaks my heart when he doesn't want to get involved with some activities because of his burns scar - he is a gorgeous soul with a sunny smile and a wonderful companion. He is a credit to us everywhere we go, as I am sure the OP is a credit to whoever she dines with.

                                                And on a similar note (and I only just remembered this, so it goes to show how important it seems to me) is Mr. Huntress has recently started to suffer rosacea on his face. Now that I think about it the rash is quite large and I suppose (in his view) quite obscuring. It's something that I don't really notice (though I am sure it causes him some internal grief) and it would NEVER stop me from eating with my husband, wherever we choose to go and I am always proud to be with Mr. Huntress. He is a talented, kind, successful man who I am lucky to have by my side. And damnit if I want to show off my dining companion wherever we choose to go I will. To the OP: I am sure you are more beautiful than what you can see and you would be welcome anywhere you choose to dine.

                                                1. re: TheHuntress

                                                  Yes. What are often considered as physical "scars," are overlooked, at least by me. Many have them, and a lot of the folk are actually Heroes, at least in my mind.

                                                  The social "scars," often cause many issues, and some are not pretty.

                                                  "Beauty" is IN the person, and "ugliness" is, too - but they are totally different, and are often not seen from afar - until one sits with the person. There are some, who are often featured in various "beauty spreads," that I would never host at my table. However, there are many, who would honor me, to occupy those same seats.

                                                  To the OP - never be concerned over this matter. Conduct yourself as a lady, or a gentleman, and hold your head high. Good folk will welcome you.

                                                  Hunt

                                                    1. re: TheHuntress

                                                      oh I hope this thread is a satire of a satire.
                                                      www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFmv22ghzQw

                                                      Huntress - I'd say young Master Huntress (is that a little gender-bendy? eh whatever) has some good parental folks in his circumference.

                                                      Mrs. Bridges: any person whose opinion matters may notice, but would never say or fix their minds over something so blatantly superficial. do go forth with confidence and enhanced self-esteem. Pax Vobiscum.

                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                        Ha! Great song! And I even say that as a tall person :)

                                                        Thanks for the nice compliment, too. Master Huntress (hey, I love the gender-bending) is a cool kid, I'm pretty proud of him.

                                                2. I wasn't even sure if this post was made in all seriousness - as long as your cash is green go out and enjoy yourself!

                                                  2 Replies
                                                  1. re: ahuva

                                                    Or in our case, blue, pink, green...

                                                    1. re: ahuva

                                                      I have not reason to think that the thread is not serious, and consider it a person's question, predicated on their perception of their physical looks. Until proven otherwise, I have to say, NO, do not even think about it.

                                                      Hunt

                                                    2. I have never been refused service, due to my ugliness. However, some diners might have been offended, but that was never my intention.

                                                      I seldom really observe my fellow diners, other than to make a mental note of the wines they are having, or maybe a dish that looks so good, that I wish I had ordered that.

                                                      Just not something that I even consider, and do not feel that others have any fears, either.

                                                      A good friend has major scars from a wartime disaster, and I, plus no one else, has ever had a problem, when he's dining with us.

                                                      Hunt

                                                      1. it is up to you..if you feel at ease,others will also

                                                        1 Reply
                                                        1. re: vitaminD

                                                          My mother used to say, "Ugly is as ugly does." Nothing more to be said on the subject.

                                                        2. You are Kidding, right?...Of Course, You are welcome!......Most of the diners are on their table, their food.

                                                          Frankly, my Dear........who gives a damn?.....to quote Rhett

                                                          1. I have no doubt this is a serious thread. But with all due respect to MrsBridges. The original post is quite vague, which in turn leads people to speculate. Something must have happened to bring this subject up. Without a few more details it's kind of hard to help with a line of defense. Although that's her business whether she wants to or not.

                                                            1. No

                                                              Once we start down the road of banning folk with acne, it is only a small step to banning short, fat middle aged spectacle wearing men. And then, where would I be?

                                                              3 Replies
                                                              1. re: Harters

                                                                ahahha - welcome chez moi, anytime, Mr. H!

                                                                1. re: Harters

                                                                  John,

                                                                  Uh-oh, I think that I am about to be banned... think more than "middle-aged" (by almost any actuarial standards), with glasses, carrying about 15 extra pounds, thinning hair, and a wino. There is not much left for me - BUT I usually have my lovely, young wife in tow, so maybe that will get me by, at least for a few more years? [Grin] Also, some days my beard looks like Ernest Hemingway's, but on other days, more like Gabby Hayes (Google is your friend). That can count against me, on bad days.

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  1. re: Harters

                                                                    Where would you be? At the head of my table, anytime, as an honored and welcomed guest.

                                                                  2. I might feel uncomfortable if someone is so hideously disfigured that children regularly stop and point at that person upon seeing them in the street, but I think the onus is on me to tolerate it rather than that person avoiding going out in public.

                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                    1. re: FoodPopulist

                                                                      Wow ... I have an idea for your next life.

                                                                      I agree with all those who've said that it's what's inside that matters most. We all know beautiful people who aren't. If you love food, you should absolutely eat in whatever restaurant appeals. Focus on your experience, and let others worry about theirs. Anyone whose experience of a fabulous restaurant could be ruined by the details of anyone else's face is clearly not properly appreciating the food and has very odd priorities. If we were going to start excluding people, I think we should start with anyone in this category.

                                                                      1. re: foiegras

                                                                        <<We all know beautiful people who aren't>>

                                                                        So very true. I have been in company, where the folk would make the covers of many magazines, who were not worth having at my table. I have been honored to dine with some, who could never be considered "beautiful," by the press anywhere, but who were, and I enjoyed their company.

                                                                        Well-stated,

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                    2. Seriously, no! In my experience, I've never seen a 'perfect person' at any restaurant. Work on your self esteem and don't let your outer cover get in the way of what you really are.

                                                                      1. I am stunned by the supportive replies. In a world that is often none-too-kind to unattractive women, it is heartening to find foodies who don't share the prejudice that I have often encountered. I can only infer that people with a serious interest in food really do judge by weightier qualities than appearance.

                                                                        Some wondered what prompted me to write this post. I have been treated rudely in various kinds of businesses because of my appearance. Worst of all, though, was when a perfect stranger approached me at a charity dinner and told me that I should become a clown. That shook my social confidence quite a bit. Yes, only a jerkass would say something like that, but I really want to avoid that kind of attention.

                                                                        25 Replies
                                                                        1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                          God, what an asshole. I'm sorry to hear you had to experience that. Unfortunately, mean people are everywhere.

                                                                          Take up k-boxing, might come in handy next time someone insults you '-D

                                                                          1. re: linguafood

                                                                            Or, just ignore the riff-raff, and smile beyond them.

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                          2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                            I am sorry, especially about the charity-dinner. It took me a long time--working in the 'public' whereby I hear not only rude comments about my appearance, personality, etc. daily and see 'mutated' pictures of myself posted online--to recognize that the ways in which I am 'ugly' to others can be a source of power--for me. We live in a society that greatly values physical-appearances--even if we deny it or wish it was otherwise. However, if I can reflect that I embrace and thrive even with my 'ugly features' (those visible to the eyes and those deeper), than hopefully I can model to others that their appraisal is incorrect and somehow.. in even the smallest of ways.. inspire others to see 'ugliness' (which really only means: difference) is power.

                                                                            I hope you go out to eat soon--but I identify with your question and your reasons for not doing so at the present.

                                                                            1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                              Mrs. Bridges,
                                                                              I can only imagine that El Jerko was under the influence of a substance---maybe s/he was just high on his/her own sadism, but let me offer some unsolicited advice.

                                                                              I'm both tall and zaftig (cellulite and all) and have always been the tallest/biggest girl in most rooms since about third grade. At department stores while shopping for petite relatives, I have fielded awfully sarcastic "helpful hints" from salespersons and patrons alike. The late Miss Manners had some verbal self-defense that I adopted a couple of decades ago when I was in college.

                                                                              At the first horrifically rude comment, respond "Excuse me...could you repeat that?"
                                                                              If s/he is drunk or oblivious enough to reply, say "Oh, I'm so sorry for you" in an even tone and walk away. You're dealing with a sadist. If a sadist doesn't see pain, he's failed.

                                                                              It's easy for me to say in the anonymity of the internet that if it wasn't your acne, it'd be your weight, or your height, or your hair, or your nose, or your ass, your choice of wine, or your whatever when you run into a jerk....bullies will find something to bully you about, no matter what. Those with especially small bully mentalities pick on physical things.

                                                                              Hang in there, Mrs. B--idiots are the exception, not the rule.

                                                                              1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                I'm glad you found Miss Manners the source of useful advice, but must point that, thankfully, she (a.k.a. Judith Martin) is not at all late, but alive and still publishing her advice column.

                                                                                1. re: Caitlin McGrath

                                                                                  Marvelous! I'm so glad I'm wrong....confused her with Ms. Baldridge, evidently. Thank you!

                                                                                  1. re: pinehurst

                                                                                    Miss M does seem to be cutting back her hours and relying on staff more, sadly.

                                                                                    I still love her.

                                                                                2. re: pinehurst

                                                                                  In many situations, similar to what was described, I find that the offending person has been trying to make up for what they found, as an issue in their view, of their own self-worth. If someone is comfortable with themselves, they should accept, and embrace. I see this as a problem for the "observer," and not for the subject.

                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                3. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                  that's horrible! what a complete ahole of a person.
                                                                                  i really hope that you do not let sick people like that ruin and certainly not limit your experiences in life, although i can easily see how it might. our egos are fragile enough things without horrid people like that making it worse. you can only imagine the smallness of that person's life, if that's any consolation at all.

                                                                                  1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                    Yes. Feel pity for those people, as they need support, more than the object of their rudeness.

                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                  2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                    It is not a gender thing. Most of my references were to gentlemen, who had experienced some horrible disaster in their lives. In nearly every case, that did NOT affect their inner-person. They still had "beauty," though a different sort.

                                                                                    It is about being a human, and seeing beyond just the skin.

                                                                                    Do not be intimidated. I try not to be. Enjoy life, and just be a wonderful human being, letting what is inside come out.

                                                                                    There are too many, who are not, and never will be, ladies and gentlemen. Such is life. Usually, it is their loss.

                                                                                    As has been said, there are many "Hollywood types," with whom many of us would never dine.

                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                    1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                      While you have every right to withdraw from any situation that makes you uncomfortable, please know that most event planners for these things take EVERYONE'S comfort seriously. If someone does that, I can almost guarantee if the organizers are notified of such horrible behavior they will do their best to rectify it and support you. I am sad you would be ever put in that position and please know if that were ever done in my presence (and i have intervene at events where someone was being harassing), I would put a stop to that.

                                                                                      1. re: Dcfoodblog

                                                                                        You make great points. We spent the last 10 years taking my M-I-L to various restaurants, and events. She was wheelchair-bound, and had suffered a major stroke in the 1960's, from which she never fully recovered. No one was ever less than totally accommodating, even though she had a limited idea of what a good meal should be. We had chef's offer to send busboys to pick up meals for her, when their menus did not accommodate her fully, and then to re-plate it, just for her.

                                                                                        We never had anyone fail to accommodate her wheelchair, and we were most often seated in "prime" locations. I cannot recall anyone, restaurant, caterer, event planner, who did not bend over backward, to make sure that she not be slighted in any way. Everyone was just wonderful. My hat is off to all of them, from Denver, to New Orleans, to Phoenix, to Hawaii. We could have not asked for anything more. All those folk have my utmost respect, and appreciation. We lost her, just less than a year ago, but so very many touched her life, and mine too.

                                                                                        Hunt

                                                                                      2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                        MrsBrigdes, you would be welcome at a table with my group anytime. We only ask that you laugh at our bad jokes and share your fries :)

                                                                                        1. re: iluvcookies

                                                                                          LOL!

                                                                                          Great sentiments, and a wonderful invitation too - except for sharing the fries... [Grin]

                                                                                          Hunt

                                                                                        2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                          Mrs, I am so sorry that you have had to endure such treatment from strangers. Hold your head high – scars don’t make a person ugly, hate does. Ironic that a POS like that would be attending a charity event

                                                                                          1. re: EM23

                                                                                            Remember, a POS doesn't attend any event for the charity involved per se.

                                                                                          2. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                            I've actually been told I should be a clown, too - by a friend who also is a clown and owns a clown company. :) She looks for people with a kind heart who are willing to set appearances aside to brighten the lives of others. I declined (it was a job offer, lol!) but my friend and her fellow clowns really do brighten the lives of the people they come into contact with.

                                                                                            Regardless of whether this person meant this to be kind or cruel, YOU get to choose how you receive it! I get how that would shake anyone's confidence. But you can choose to look at it as a compliment to your character, if you'd like to.

                                                                                            1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                              Wow that one action spoke volumes about that stranger. When people are mean my friend would just reply "..and this is coming from you?" Shuts them up almost instantly.

                                                                                              1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                "that I should become a clown"

                                                                                                'what fascinating career advice! have you any hints you'd care to pass on?'

                                                                                                or

                                                                                                'I already am as hired staff. shall I alert another bartender?"

                                                                                                1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                  That stranger deserved a slap across the face.
                                                                                                  And then you turning to the crowd and say:
                                                                                                  "This man suggested that I should be a clown. I obliged.
                                                                                                  Thank you. You've been a lovely audience."

                                                                                                  1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                    Isn't it something that we place the worst thing some terrible person said so high in our memories? And it is hard to put up a wall or guard against such things because people can always find new ways to stun us into utter silence.

                                                                                                    But you cannot avoid it. You react gracefully and leave them beneath you. I am guessing you do that.

                                                                                                    Go dine where you want. There are just as many rude folks ordering off the dollar menu at a fast food place as anywhere else.

                                                                                                    And I totally agree with foiegras.

                                                                                                    1. re: Sal Vanilla

                                                                                                      Good point.

                                                                                                      I just traveled across the US, on several flights. The most impactive memories were the negative ones. However, upon relating the tales of those travels, there WERE many positive ones. They seemed to fall down the list, and it should not have been so - my problem.

                                                                                                      Rudeness is everywhere, though it should not be. Still, it's an unfortunate fact of life, and can be hurtful, even to those, who were their personal "body armor."

                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                  2. loud talkers, cell phone users, tribes with a passel (my new word, thanks ham) of obnoxious and unwatched kids, stinky people....THEY should stay away from ANY restaurant. Acne scarring? Who cares

                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                    1. re: BiscuitBoy

                                                                                                      "Tribes with a passel?" Had not heard that term, but thank you for educating me. Now I know.

                                                                                                      I agree with you.

                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                      PS - A cell phone ring does not bother me, but talking at the table, next to mine, does. My wife is on-call 24/7, but then excuses herself, when an important call comes in. Usually, there is NO ring, but a vibration, but still, she must leave the table and the dining room. Some folk are really on a shorter leash, than others, like myself.

                                                                                                      1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                        I take 1/10th of mine but when I do I say "excuse me please as my pocket's ringing" and leave the table.

                                                                                                        but everyone knows I only take a few calls.

                                                                                                    2. As an especially "casual" dresser, I've gotten some weird looks and attitudes in more than a few places that I have stopped to eat. At the same time, I am lucky enough to be a decent enough looking guy that any frowning upon me has been based upon my clothing and not my fundamental appearance. Ultimately, however, I am saddened that you even thought/felt it necessary to ask the basic question in your OP. I say go where you want, ignore any sh*t you perceive - as best you can - and feel free to stiff any server who acts like a jerk. Be yourself, be strong, and be a 'hound (Oh, and feel free to post any wierdness directed at you here on our Boards - let your local friends know where you are treated poorly).

                                                                                                      1. For years I worked in oncology, and one young woman had a prosthetic nose--not attractive and clunky to apply, but it was that or an open hole. She, however, had a great sense of humor, and at Christmas, used one of those red Rudolph balls on the prosthesis. Said it was her way of getting back at all the buffoon starers all year.
                                                                                                        Go out and enjoy your life.

                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: pine time

                                                                                                          "get back all the buffoon starers all year."

                                                                                                          yes, because a person wearing an unattractive fake nose is not so uncommon that one might take a second or third look. 'Oh, you only have one arm - I, uh, I didn't notice.'

                                                                                                          1. re: pine time

                                                                                                            I LOVE a good F-U attitude!

                                                                                                            but then again probably good she wasn't an Arkansas Razorback fan.

                                                                                                            1. re: hill food

                                                                                                              She was quite the character. May have been a Razorback fan. Don't know if her attitude pre-dated the cancer/surgery experience or came from that experience. Taught me a lot.

                                                                                                          2. If only the "beautiful people" were allowed to dine at upscale restaurants there would only be 3 people able to patronize a place and none of them would actually be eating!

                                                                                                            5 Replies
                                                                                                              1. re: hyacinthgirl

                                                                                                                That reminds me of Tyler Cowen's (the economist who runs marginalrevolution) tip for choosing restaurants - avoid the ones filled with pretty people, since by then you're paying for the view as much as the food. Not sure how accurate it is, but there you go.

                                                                                                                1. re: lamb_da_calculus

                                                                                                                  Well-stated.

                                                                                                                  I want my "view" to be a sunset over the bay.

                                                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                                                2. re: hyacinthgirl

                                                                                                                  yeah they'd just be waiting empty tables.

                                                                                                                3. I hope your concerns have been alleviated by the positive responses in this thread.

                                                                                                                  But I mostly responded because the subject line of this post brought to mind this clip, which I've thought of myself when I go out in public feeling less-than-great:
                                                                                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N0yXG...

                                                                                                                  1. MrsBridges, your post broke my heart for so many reasons. Please do not give credence or traction to the stupid people among us. As I age, I am in awe at the resilence and strength of the human spirit. Hold your head high (literally overlooking the base idiots you've encountered in the past) and treat yourself to whatever meal you desire knowing that so many of us are silently - and not so silently - cheering for you.

                                                                                                                    I am among the last of the polio generation and wore a leg brace for a year after a mild bout with this scourge. That I was also buck-toothed, plump, freckled and 13 added to the horror. When my peers were turning from ugly ducklings to swans, I was firmly stuck in the UD camp with the despicable brown leather contraption strapped to my leg. Many years later, I can look back on this as a learning experience for it helped me gain understanding about the foibles of human beings. Some people were wonderful while others were deserving of a long, slow and painful death (in my estimation). In the end, those of us with visible physical defects can benefit from the tough lessons learned at the hands of the thoughtless. Granted, my problem is not openly visible today as yours is but the lessons and experiences remain valid.

                                                                                                                    Go and eat something wonderful! Would that there was a way we could join you for a celebratory meal! Go MrsBridges!!!

                                                                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                                                                    1. re: Sherri

                                                                                                                      Sheri,

                                                                                                                      I came from the age, just before you. Polio was a part of our lives, and in my tiny school, three of my friends were stricken. They were all wonderful people, and had almost instantly (or so it seemed) become comfortable with their affliction. One, with his braces and a crutch, would beat me in tennis, no matter how well I played, or how hard I fought. I am honored to have been beaten by him, as each match taught me humility, and respect for another.

                                                                                                                      Unfortunately, the disease took Larry too soon, as he had a lot to offer mankind, but that is often how it is.

                                                                                                                      To you, and to Mrs. Bridges, I am now toasting both of you, with this glass of Brunello di Montalcino!

                                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                                      1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                        Lovely response and lovely wine! Thank you.

                                                                                                                    2. MrsBridges,
                                                                                                                      My heart breaks for you that you feel that ugly people should stay away from upscale restaurants.
                                                                                                                      Some of the most beautiful people I know are the most ugliest f*cks inside.

                                                                                                                      Never ever let anyone take away your power.

                                                                                                                      1. Jeezus, no! Whatever your face or hair looks like doesn't matter at all, as long as you are clean, dreesed for the occasion, use decent manners and enjoy your meal.
                                                                                                                        When the mr. and I were just baby gators in our early 20's, he was burned very badly about the face and head in a small chemical mishap at his work. He was mummy wrapped and cooped up forever, but once he was off the pain pills and had no open wounds, we ate wherever we pleased, Upscale and downscale.And countinued to do so all throughout the surgeries that followed.

                                                                                                                        Everyone deserves a delicious meal. And the only true ugly people and the mean, angry, and selfish.

                                                                                                                        1. Dear lord, of course not. The fact the you find it necessary makes me want to exit the planet. I know that you have received a bunch of results and mine is probably irrelevant, but still.

                                                                                                                          1. I really appreciate everyone's support. I've felt dragged down by small-minded people, and it sometimes makes me a bit paranoid. I'm developing a theory, wholly supported by the unanimous responses here, that people who are passionately interested in something, be it food, or the arts, or science, or history, whatever, are the people who look past the superficial when they determine what really matter.

                                                                                                                            4 Replies
                                                                                                                              1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                                                There's nothing like a little life experience to enhance empathy :) Most of us have been there in some way, cared about someone who's been there, etc. I grew up with a highly judgmental parent, and one of the best things I've ever done was dial down my inner judge. Anytime I hear it cropping up, I remind it that we're all doing the best we can, and that no one asked me to judge. I'm pretty positive no one else has been asked to judge either :)

                                                                                                                                1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                                                  Nice one, Mrs. Bridges. I imagine that you wrote this post with a heavy heart, but I hope you can feel lighter now. I must say I think this is one of the only Chowhound boards I have seen with a unanimous agreement. So I must say to be able to unite Chowhounds like this is quite an achievement! I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and that the new year brings you some sensational dining experiences :)

                                                                                                                                  1. re: MrsBridges

                                                                                                                                    Please eat and enjoy. The majority of people in fine establishments are looking for a quality meal, just like you. You have an interest that you should nurture and grow, and I hope you have many great dining experiences in the future. Anyone who makes you feel bad does so because they are shallow and ill-mannered and not worth another thought.
                                                                                                                                    Happy holidays and please do report on some of the wonderful meal that we all hope you will enjoy soon!

                                                                                                                                  2. Having suffered with some moderate acne scarring myself I completely understand where you are coming from. Don't let it stop you from doing anything, your own passion will shine through.

                                                                                                                                    In the words of Auntie Mame - Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death, LIVE LIVE LIVE.

                                                                                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                                                                                    1. re: KaimukiMan

                                                                                                                                      Where oh where is the "like" button for the way this all panned out?

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                                                                                                                                    2. Nominations:

                                                                                                                                      1. Balding older men with comb-overs who dye their hair
                                                                                                                                      2. Women with bad facelifts

                                                                                                                                      20 Replies
                                                                                                                                      1. re: beevod

                                                                                                                                        so much for unanimity.

                                                                                                                                        but it brings up a point, is there a difference between that which is foistered upon us versus. that from bad choices? I knew a guy with the most dreadful comb over, starting from just above his left ear, but an otherwise charming, well dressed, funny, intelligent guy. He went bald early in life (his mid 20's) and had been combing his hair that way ever since.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: KaimukiMan

                                                                                                                                          Combovers and facelifts (good or bad) share the common fact of being a bullsh*t way of trying to deny the truth. Granted, I find purely cosmetic surgery to be way worse than bad grooming, but they do share the primary goal of elevating vanity over honesty which has little benefit outside of the psychological impact upon the one who has embraced the lie.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                            but if it makes the wearer happy, more self-confident, and more comfortable to be in public, then that's all that really matters. It's not my face or my money or my life, so it's my place to keep my mouth shut and my opinions to myself.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                              I'm glad that's not my place. I'd rather try and affect change in society so that people don't have such trepidations about being in public over such superficial concerns. And, remember, it is, in fact, your life - you're a part of a broken, superficial society - you're accepting it. The same society, recall, that drove the OP to creating this entire thread. In the end, it should not be a question of personal self-confidence, but rather societal acceptance and tolerance.

                                                                                                                                              1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                With you about the part played by "society".My parents weren't the type to measure "appearances",it was all about the inside.My MIL on the other side of the spectrum always had a remark for "appearances" that didn't meet her terms of conformity.She would have just the jack-ass to make a remark about,colour your hair or worse.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                  It's not my life at all -- it is no different than the guy with sleeve tattoos or the chick with a piercing in her nose and her lip and purple hair -- they're all spending money to change their outward appearance as they see fit.

                                                                                                                                                  I've had the pleasure of knowing quite a few people in my life who by outward appearance would be (and ARE, frequently) labeled as freaks...but they were some of the nicest people I've ever known.

                                                                                                                                                  Not my face, not my money, and not my life -- none of my bizwax, and I don't for a second perceive myself to be so far above anyone else, regardless of their outward appearance, to feel justified to pass judgement.

                                                                                                                                                  Life is far too short, and my life far too far from perfect, to spend even a minute telling anyone else what to do with THEIR life.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                      KUDUS to you and your next generation !! This is the good stuff to pass on,teach.

                                                                                                                                                      You would have liked my MIL about as much as I did.Thank god all four sons are viewing things like you and not like her and the two girls.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                        As long as they don't rearrange your kitchen!

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                          well, yeah -- because then you ARE making it my life.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                            I'm curious, do you understand that societal norms & acceptances "ARE" your life? Choose to ignore them, but they are a part of your reality everyday.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                              They aren't my life ... they're on the fringe of my life, and always have been.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: foiegras

                                                                                                                                                                So, you're saying the norms of the world around you aren't part of your life? Sh*t, I wish I could be that withdrawn.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                                  Withdrawn is not the word I would choose. I would say independent--and you can be.

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                        <I'd rather try and affect change in society>

                                                                                                                                                        I'm curious. How do you propose you do that? Isn't it more realistic to realize this is not a homogenous society we're living in? People, no matter what they're physical or emotional affliction (if there is one) , learn to live within, as they see fit, the society they are accustomed to. Fpr many it makes their character stronger and much more resilient . The Op asked a question and requested responses. From my viewpoint it appears the OP has learned and is now ready, and more accepting and enlightened about others around him/her, based on all the wonderful support he/she has received.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                          You should read more carefully.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                            <I'd like to affect change in society so that people don't have such trepidations about being in public over such superficial concerns.>

                                                                                                                                                            That's what I read and I do it carefully. My response was' how do you propose to do it?"

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: latindancer

                                                                                                                                                              I see nothing wrong with trying to hold true to the notion that balding or getting wrinkles are not crippling handicaps - and worth articulating. Trying to pretend that hair loss or aging skin doesn't happen; however, is creating worse consequences than the reality itself.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                                <I'd like to affect change in society so that people don't have such trepidations about being in public over such superficial concerns.>

                                                                                                                                                                I accomplish this by accepting them regardless of their appearance, without judgement or comment, whether their appearance is congenital or as a result of their own choices.

                                                                                                                                                                Doing anything else, whether by direct comments, berating, asking questions they may not want to ask, or leaving any sort of tract -- is judgemental, unaccepting, and results only in animosity -- whether toward me, toward themselves, or both.

                                                                                                                                                                I'm not inside their head -- I don't know why, and I have no right to know why they have altered their outward appearance.

                                                                                                                                                                Whether it's ink, piercings, brightly-coloured hair, a face lift, or tummy tuck -- the things they have done to their outward appearance are finished, and this is the way they look. Nothing I say or do is going to change that, so I don't try.

                                                                                                                                                                if I didn't cause their appearance, it's not for me to judge or opine over. As a friend and fellow human being, it's my job to shut my yap and not make comments.

                                                                                                                                                                And who am I to decide what constitutes crossing a line? Plastic surgery? Coloring their hair? Piercings? What about plucking their eyebrows? A haircut? Painting their fingernails? Squeezing a pimple? All are ways of changing one's appearance from the way it appeared when you woke up this morning.

                                                                                                                                                                As above -- my life and my appearance are way too far from perfect for me to have any right to judge anybody else for theirs.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: MGZ

                                                                                                                                                                  I have no idea why people do what they do or think what they think.
                                                                                                                                                                  I am not convinced the reason a woman has a facelift is because she's concerned about what other people think or the man who has a combover is doing it for everyone else because they're afraid of the aging process.
                                                                                                                                                                  I lose 10 pounds because I think *I* look better this way. I'm not doing it for any other reason other than that. There's no social 'norm' that's involved.
                                                                                                                                                                  The wrinkles on my face. Hell no I don't like them, but they're there because I'm aging. I think I looked better without them. If I wanted to erase them I would but it would have NOTHING to do with any societal norm. At all.
                                                                                                                                                                  You may think you know why people, who are aging, do what they do but it's really nothing more than pure speculation.

                                                                                                                                                2. Who would want to go where only the beautiful can dine. YUCK!

                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                  1. re: hetook

                                                                                                                                                    No such place exists, hetook. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for a very good reason.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                      <Beauty is in the eye of the beholder for a very good reason.>

                                                                                                                                                      There is nothing more true. Everyone has their own idea of what beautiful is.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                        It was an ironic statement.HillJ

                                                                                                                                                    2. No! You're as entitled to eat in a restaurant as anyone else. Who's to say what is "ugly"?

                                                                                                                                                      1. MrsBridges, you're kidding right?
                                                                                                                                                        just because you have scarring on your face you think someone would be put off by that?
                                                                                                                                                        my friend Kim is a gorgeous girl but has the worst acne scarring on her face even her Dermatologist had ever seen. she's had her whole face sandpapered, bleached, acid washed, I held her hand and let her hold onto my stainless steel balls to roll around in her hands to forget that her Dr. was using a Dremel sander on her, then stitched each and every one of the sores/holes he'd just created. she is married to a gorgeous man and has 3 beautiful daughters. she looks like she's been badly burned is all, but gorgeous.

                                                                                                                                                        DO NOT WORRY about a thing, you're fine, I'm sure of that.
                                                                                                                                                        and no put off HAIL no................

                                                                                                                                                        1. You should eat anywhere you want...if you are treated badly, let the manager know.

                                                                                                                                                          1. Is this a serious question? What do looks have to do with dining out? If you're hungry, and have the money....

                                                                                                                                                            6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Wawsanham

                                                                                                                                                              the presence of 124 replies (plus a few dozen that have been deleted) would indicate that yes, it is a serious question -- have a look back at some of the OPs comments throughout the thread -- it's quite unfortunate, and makes me sad that she has been made to feel that she has to ask this question.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                " have a look back at some of the OPs comments throughout the thread "
                                                                                                                                                                I only see two plus the original.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: iL Divo

                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, and the two comments are quite heart-felt and self-explanatory:

                                                                                                                                                                  http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8790... "I am stunned by the supportive replies. In a world that is often none-too-kind to unattractive women, it is heartening to find foodies who don't share the prejudice that I have often encountered. I can only infer that people with a serious interest in food really do judge by weightier qualities than appearance.

                                                                                                                                                                  Some wondered what prompted me to write this post. I have been treated rudely in various kinds of businesses because of my appearance. Worst of all, though, was when a perfect stranger approached me at a charity dinner and told me that I should become a clown. That shook my social confidence quite a bit. Yes, only a jerkass would say something like that, but I really want to avoid that kind of attention."

                                                                                                                                                                  and http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8790...
                                                                                                                                                                  I really appreciate everyone's support. I've felt dragged down by small-minded people, and it sometimes makes me a bit paranoid. I'm developing a theory, wholly supported by the unanimous responses here, that people who are passionately interested in something, be it food, or the arts, or science, or history, whatever, are the people who look past the superficial when they determine what really matter.

                                                                                                                                                                  *******

                                                                                                                                                                  Not sure what else she could do to clarify why this is a very real, and very painful, question.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                    I'm with you on this, Sunshine. I imagine this would have been a very painful question to ask. I felt hurt reading this on behalf of the OP, remembering my ugly-duckling days and the teasing I received for being an awkward, long-legged giraffe and I spent many hours hiding from a world I felt too ugly to enter. Now I wish I'd been braver and lived a fuller life in my teens as now I understand the insults I received reflected more upon the people who paid them, rather than myself as the person who received them.

                                                                                                                                                                    I have always felt beauty is so much more than what the eye perceives. I suppose beauty is a bit like a plate of food delivered to our table. Our plate could be visually delightful, but one whiff of rotten meat, one taste of rancid fat or poking beneath the surface and finding an unexpected maggot instantly ruins the beauty of what we thought we had delivered to our table. And in reverse there are so many wonderful dishes out there that may look a little plain, but the captivating smell invites you into a heavenly feast that may not have been immediately envisaged at first.

                                                                                                                                                                    Hope that makes sense...

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                      all I said sunshine was there are 2 comments and 1 OP.
                                                                                                                                                                      the way I read your post there were several or at least a few. I counted 2 plus topic. that's all I was saying-you didn't have to reprint them-I'd already read.

                                                                                                                                                              2. well. I'm not certain that I am ugly, but I am kind of plain. If anyone ever told me that I was not welcome at a certain restaurant, I would have no trouble trying my very best to destroy them by word of mouth.

                                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                1. re: RosePearl

                                                                                                                                                                  with a name like RosePearl, you've gotta be a knockout :)

                                                                                                                                                                2. Well, if someone else is bothered by the looks of another patron whether it's their weight, distribution of fat, build, scars, lack of limbs, etc... that just speaks badly of that someone. It's their problem, not yours. As long as you are legally allowed to eat somewhere--end of discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Wawsanham

                                                                                                                                                                    wawsanham - yeah, but you're sensible...

                                                                                                                                                                  2. If anyone comments about your scars, give them a puzzled look and say...

                                                                                                                                                                    "Scars? No thanks, I don't smoke."

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Puffin3

                                                                                                                                                                        Well, I know "ugly," when I see it, but doubt that anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, in this thread qualifies.

                                                                                                                                                                        Even if they did, I would hope that I could welcome them to my table, and never care.

                                                                                                                                                                        Just saying...

                                                                                                                                                                        Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                      2. What a horrible thing to think! Of course not. I am more put off by rude people, loud people, those who bring their ill-behaved children and mothers in law, and drunk people.

                                                                                                                                                                        1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Isolda

                                                                                                                                                                          Good things to be put off by, at least IMHO.

                                                                                                                                                                          Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                        2. That's absurd. If only the beautiful people were allowed to do upscale things then there certainly wouldn't be very many people doing those things!

                                                                                                                                                                          1. That is ridiculous that anyone would feel entitled to make you feel that way. If you ever find yourself in DC please message me. I will be proud to have you as my dining companion.