Thanksgiving Bird

[Banana25]

Interested in CH's opinions on the best place to pre-order a Thanksgiving turkey. Somewhere in St. Lawrence? Other opinions about this?

[Pantz]

In the past, I've ordered from Cumbrae's, Healthy Butcher and just dropped by St. Lawrence and grabbed whatever looked decent. For the most part, they've all been quality birds.

This year, I'm trying something new and ordering from the West End Food Coop (grand opening this Saturday, Oct 6th!) in Parkdale. They get their birds from Weber Farms, a small producer from Paisley. I think they sell at some Farmer's Markets around town. They practice pasture farming of their live stock, so I'm interested to see what impact it has on flavour. Price was $4.95 a pound, which is about what I would pay at Healthy Butcher and is also my limit on what I'm willing to pay for a bird.

http://beta.foodlinkgreybruce.com/dow...

That said, I think any utility bird will taste better if it's just cooked properly. As many have noted, a good brine will elevate most supermarket birds. I've kind of gone off brining over the last couple of years because it does occasionally affect texture. Since I don't care about presenting the bird for carving, I deal with the eternal dilemma of uneven cooking of breast vs. thighs by breaking the bird down.

I remove the legs, keep the breast section in one piece and take the back off. The back I roast and then make stock with the day before. Roasting the day off, the breast being larger than the legs, they cook about the same rate. I've done this Thanksgiving and Christmas for two years and it works like a charm, with the added benefit of decreasing the cooking time.

[jayt90]

Most pastured birds get feed supplements, so you might not get the total effect of grass, bugs and seeds. It is worth asking Weber about this. I like your cooking method and may try it as my extended family is not fussy about presentation when they get a good meal!

[TOFoodie1]

I notice that Longo's has fresh turkeys on sale this week. Has anyone tried them? Are they good?

[jayt90]

I just found a Wagjag deal on fresh, organic free range turkeys for about $4/lb. Has to be prepaid online and picked up in south Etobicoke by Oct. 7. Details,
http://wagjag.com/?w=94211

[Arcadiaseeker]

We always preorder from Cumbrae and we're never disappointed. As for St. Lawrence, Rowe is very good - I've ordered from them in the past.

[TOFoodie1]

I've always had good luck with ordering a fresh turkey from Bruno's.

[evansl]

Loblaws. Or Metro. Maybe Sobeys. The frozen birds taste exactly the same as the free range, organically grown in tiny models of Graceland birds. Really, this "fresh turkey stuff" is a huge racket. Brining it properly is far more important than whether it was raised on organic acorns from Peru and given daily exercise with a workout coach.

[Kagemusha]

You'd sing a different tune after a few sketchy utility birds that taste like they hit the freezer with the Franklin expedition.Fed those to starving fellow grad students who'd happily eat about any cooked animal protein. Agree, though, that boutique birds are a bit of a conceit--and a fat profit center for shops flogging them. Never any complaints with quality air-chilled from Costco.

[childofthestorm]

Hmm you maybe talked me out of my usual expensive bird. Costco is pretty reliable. Gonna try this year.

[WillinTO]

Well, there is no doubt that frozen birds from the main supermarket chains, or Costco have huge appeal. But to suggest that they taste "exactly the same" is an interesting assertion. There are certainly ethical and health issues associated with how the supermarket birds are raised, but those don't concern the majority of people. However, to suggest that a steroid and antibiotic fed bird, who has never had to moved more than a few feet and has been genetically selected to grow a preposterously large breast in a minimal amount of time and then frozen, perhaps months ago, would taste the same as a heritage bird that spent it's much longer life feeding and growing naturally, hunting for much of its food and actually flying, just does not make any sense. Perhaps not everyone can taste the difference (although I find that hard to believe),and certainly some may not like the flavour and texture difference or find it good value. After all, Kraft dinner outsells homemade pasta and sauce 10 to 1 I am sure. But that doesn't mean those people who buy fresh, flavourful sustainably raised birds are the unwitting victims of a "huge racket".

[estufarian]

While I am sympathetic to your views, it helps to get the facts straight.
Steroids have been banned in Canada (for raising birds) for about 50 years now - not sure why you would think otherwise.
Indeed antibiotics are 'legal' (certain kinds) - but can be (are?) fed to heritage birds.

[crawfish]

Organic meats have never had antibiotics.

[estufarian]

You are 'mostly' right.
Antibiotics prohibited since 2006.
Before that was more tricky as depended upon the 'Certifying Body' - but indeed they couldn't be 'injected' - can't find anything conclusive about feed though.

[crawfish]

So don't buy a 6 year old turkey :)

[estufarian]

I'll count the rings!

[WillinTO]

Any thing can be fed to a heritage bird. The quesiton is what choices the farmer makes. Regarding antibiotics, this may prove interesting reading: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2...

[Kagemusha]

Don't recall any follow-up on the impending catastrophe. "Drug-free" chickens' viscera are full of bacteria harmful to humans that can contaminate the meat during processing. If you've ever gutted a chicken, you'd know it's easy to do. Then what?

Resistant bacteria are a huge problem everywhere, though it's sloppy processing that makes a bad situation far worse--regardless of the birds' provenance.

[jayt90]

CFIA is too busy or inept for a followup. Here is a Lancet report in 2009 indicating the problem of antibiotics was known to the Feds
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lan...

[midtowngirl]

Just to comment further on WillinTO's point about how the turkeys are grown - I was in my local butcher (Close to the Bone on Kingston Rd) a few weeks ago when someone was ordering a Thanksgiving Turkey and the butcher said that the turkeys were not going to be as big this year because of the hot summer. They source their turkeys from a farmer who grows them naturally and apparently because it was so hot the turkeys were not that keen on eating as much and fattening themselves up to be ready for thanksgiving dinner!

[Kagemusha]

Do you hunt, WillinTO? Doubtful. A wild turkey is usually very lean and borderline tough--at best. Heritage birds that are substantially bigger and plumper should raise some suspicions about the soothing pitches of growers about bugs, sunshine and exercise programs for their stock. That unhealthy BMI we all love in turkeys isn't an accident. Funny how we drool over real deal Kobe beef but don't create as much demand for pure grass-fed beef that's never set foot in a feed lot. Quality air-chilled birds are vastly better than frozen--whatever the grade.

Besides, I stopped reading the link in your upthread post where your "farmers" were gassing about supporting local "foragers" who, in my experience, are often very rough on Ontario's woodlands in search of a fast buck. Ethical? Not.

[Kagemusha]

"But that doesn't mean those people who buy fresh, flavourful sustainably raised birds are the unwitting victims of a "huge racket"."

Of course they're not(sarcasm alert)...I'd say "willing,' though.

[jayt90]

The number of 'fresh, flavorful sustainably raised birds' is staggeringly low. Certainly there many farms with outdoor flocks of a few hundred organic or naturally fed turkeys, but every one of them will be fed pellets of commercial feed, even organic, from major players such as Purina. Even if a small butcher shop is able to find a supplier who raises less than 50 turkeys, outdoors, the birds from that farm will devastate any protected growing area, and happily live off pellets and water. Ask a farmer.

(Would anyone be surprised to learn that Purina includes marigold extract in chicken feed, and there is no negative option?)

[kingkolo]

@ Evansl...A good brine is a fantastic idea BUT you are out of your mind thinking a frozen bird from a crappy factory and handled by kids in the back room of a grocery store is as good as a proper butcher. btw my Cumbrae birds have always been great (although I would like a less expensive alternative).

[mariecollins]

I've got birds from Royal Beef at Danforth/Woodbine. Your choice of organic or regular.

[Banana25]

Great and varied suggestions. My meat world is now considerably expanded from my usual St. Lawrence offerings. These suggestions will be useful for Thanksgiving and far beyond. Thank you sincerely.

[dannyboy]

Gasparro's on Bloor have the best - order ahead, they sell out

[WillinTO]

I've had great success with Healthy Butcher birds in years past, and have one on order for this year. I've got a great source for organic, free range heritage Christmas birds, but they don't sell for T'giving. http://www.torontolife.com/features/v...

[Dr. John]

I've gotten some nice turkeys from Fresh From the Farm - they carry a heritage breed in addition to the regular one. They can't guarantee exact sizes though, so be prepared for something a few pounds heavier.