IPA lover needs new beer
What beer should an IPA lover try if he wants to try something new ? Moretti's LaRossa is one I like when I try something different.....
Separately, is there an IPA style where the aftertaste is sharply bitter, or is it a poorly made beer? I much prefer the rounded, sweeter aftertaste of Bell's Two Hearted, for example.
I'm not as well versed on lingo as many here, so apologies if I'm not being as descriptive as you'd like.....
-
-
-
vikingkaj
Oct 6, 2012 09:02 AM
There's a baker's dozen for you to try. My guess is if you don't like the way over hopped (bitter) taste of an American style IPA that you will probably be happier with a Pale Ale which are, generally speaking, less bitter but still have decent malt. I've also included some foreign variants to let you branch out a little. I'll bet you will like the Belgians & Tetleys. If you can find it, you will love the Toasted Lager. Also, anything by Dogfish or Flying Dog is always worth a try.
At a minimum you will have a great time drinking your way through the list, since there is not a bad beer on it.
Skaal !
›8 Replies-
re: vikingkaj
Josh
Oct 6, 2012 09:41 AM
Not all hoppy American IPAs are bitter. Hops are added at different stages of the beer-making process, and impart different qualities depending on when they're added. There are a great many excellent American IPAs that are no more bitter than a normal IPA, but that have a tremendous amount of hop aroma with the citrus and floral notes that come from being added later in the brewing process.
-
re: Josh
vikingkaj
Dec 28, 2012 05:25 AM
The general American approach to an IPA is that if a little is good, way more is better. With the quantities that are used, a certain "bitterness" and really complex flavor profile results even if these are added later in the process. IMO, pale ales tend to have a little more finesse and less bitterness. Pre-prohibition style lagers like the Bluepoint or Brooklyn also fit the profile. Interesting and drinkable, but not an exhibition in a glass.
-
-
-
re: jpc8015
Jim Dorsch
Dec 30, 2012 06:50 AM
The problem might be that not everyone can achieve this. A tendency to bigger for its own sake only works if the brewer is skillful (or lucky).
-
-
re: jpc8015
Jim Dorsch
Dec 30, 2012 06:40 PM
True enough, unfortunately. But we all know about the bell curve, and there are only a few at the tails.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Most IPA's are sharply bitter despite being described as smooth. Lagunitas,Stone,Russian River,Sierra have quite strong bittering qualities.
It sounds like your looking for a more malt foreward english beer. I would also recommend the german style beers. In particular I recommend trying Schneider Weisse Doppelbock and Schneider Weisse Hefe. Both beers are radically different from American hoppy bitter ales.
Some hops will be more fruity and citrus like without sharp bitter. But the majority of American Ales today are made with overly amplified hop character.
ESB is a good style. It's less bitter and more malty. Belks ESB from Andersen Valley is a very good one if you can find it. Otherwise special order it. Red Hook ESB is another one but that is much more sweet than Andersen Valley.
-
Davydd
Sep 29, 2012 02:45 PM
DaKing,
You can't go wrong with Bell's Two Hearted Ale. That's a good standard to start out on.
The Fulton Sweet Child of Vine mentioned here is another good one but probably is local to Minneapolis/St. Paul at this time.
I travel a lot and always ask for the local craft beer and usually start with a pale or IPA. If it is already national like Sierra Nevada I will fall back on it vs. the mass nationals like BudMillerCoors.
Right now I have a fridge with a variety of brews from Sand Creek Brewing Co. in Black River Falls, Wisconsin that I picked up a couple of weeks ago when I toured their facilities. If you can get them, give them a try. They are good.
-
-
MVNYC
Sep 28, 2012 05:24 AM
This conversation has gotten a bit off track for you but I would like to help. Since you like more well rounded IPA's I would think you like a sweeter finish. Look for some double IPAs as this might work. Be careful though as some of them go a bit crazy with the alcohol percentage.
I was in Minneapolis this summer and went to the town hall brewery. They have a beer called Masala Mama IPA which was very good. Seek this out if you can.
-
-
-
re: chuckl
Tripeler
Sep 28, 2012 03:07 AM
De Dolle brewery of Belgium makes a great hop monster called Dulle Teve, and while the label in Europe indicates it means "Mad Bitch" the U.S. label just says "Tripel" in the same place. This is a rich, hoppy 10% abv beer that is quite remarkable. I recommend it for the OP who needs a new beer.
-
-
-
-
-
Have you tried much from Lagunitas? They are big on hops, but the beers always seem to have some finesse that give you that pleasant bitterness rather than harsh.
I can't really think of one of their beers that I haven't enjoyed, but the pale ale and IPA are solid. The Hop Stupid is fun to try and I also like the Belgian IPA Little Sumpin' Wild.I will throw out a local favorite too--Lakefront IPA. We tend to overlook it and then every time we have it we think how it is really good.
You could also try out some black IPAs. I like the way the roasted flavor balances the hops...
›17 Replies-
re: bte576
Jim Dorsch
Sep 20, 2012 05:54 AM
Lagunitas has a nice (hard to find) seasonal, I think called Daytime, a fractional IPA at less than 5% abv.
-
-
re: bte576
Jim Dorsch
Sep 20, 2012 07:09 PM
Daytime was in very short supply around here (in the east) due to the disconnect while Lagunitas gets their new brewhouse up to speed. I hope they will be in a position to make lots of Brown Shugga this winter!
-
-
re: bte576
Jim Dorsch
Sep 21, 2012 05:52 AM
Good for you! I've also see Sumpin Wild in 22oz around here lately.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Chinon00
Sep 18, 2012 04:22 PM
You're in the Midwest correct? Just about every beer brewed by Great Lakes (Cleveland) I find to be generous and full bodied. Burning River Pale Ale would be up your alley. For something different from your neck of the woods I'd suggest "Maltida" by Goose Island, a brett fermented Belgian style pale ale. Very interesting beer.
›5 Replies-
re: Chinon00
cowboyardee
Sep 28, 2012 01:53 AM
I'll second this. Great Lakes is a good brewery. They have a real precision of flavor that I like (sorry that was the best description I could come up with this late at night). Most of their beers are quite good. Their Ella Fitzgerald porter is definitely one of my favorite examples of the style.
-
-
re: Tripeler
cowboyardee
Sep 28, 2012 03:26 AM
Ehh, I've been awake for a long time now. It's a good porter either way.
-
-
-
-
-
re: mcf
The Professor
Sep 18, 2012 03:19 PM
Sierra Nevada can do no wrong. Much better than most of the rest of the flood of micro products on the shelves these days.
-
-
-
re: Chinon00
Josh
Sep 23, 2012 04:58 PM
I find them to be, yeah. All of those styles you listed are done better by other breweries, IMO.
I don't think SN beers are bad by any means, but almost any style they make I'd rather have made by a different brewery. For example, based on your list above, I'd rather have: AleSmith's Old Numbskull, AleSmith's Yule Smith, Marin's Mt. Tam, Russian River's Pliny the Elder, and Ballast Point's Schooner.
Granted, these aren't necessarily the most widely available alternatives. For a mass-market brewery SN does a good job. But I only ever order their beer when there's no other choice available.
-
-
re: Josh
Chinon00
Sep 24, 2012 03:50 PM
"I find them to be, yeah. All of those styles you listed are done better by other breweries, IMO."
But does the fact that a beer is being "done better" by other breweries mean that it's "boring"? American Barleywine as a style seems to me to be inherently un-boring. I think it's the age and ubiquity of the SN brand that projects this image.
-
-
-
-
re: Chinon00
Josh
Sep 24, 2012 08:51 PM
No, but that wasn't my point.
My comment was in response to: "Much better than most of the rest of the flood of micro products on the shelves these days."
I don't see it that way, at all. SNPA was an important and influential beer no question, but I don't agree that their beers are better than most of the craft brewed stuff that's on shelves (though obviously there may be regional differences).
I'm not saying I dislike any of their beers, either. Summerfest, for example, is a pretty nice lager. I also used to really enjoy their American wheat beer, which I haven't seen in a really long time.
-
-
-
-
-
re: Kenji
Josh
Sep 25, 2012 08:04 AM
I'm surprised this is controversial.
Most beer bars I go to have many beers more interesting than SN's lineup. Typically if I am ordering SN that's because the rest of the handles are macro taps.
Their porter is good, but is it better than Fuller's London Porter? Better than Stone Smoked Porter? Better than Anchor Porter?
-
-
re: Kenji
Josh
Sep 25, 2012 04:49 PM
Not sure what makes the Stone one unusual. The word "smoked" in the name refers to a minuscule amount of peat-smoked malt in the grain bill. It's not like Alaska's smoked porter, which actually tastes smoked. Stone's Smoked Porter tastes like a pretty standard porter.
And while SN's porter holds its own against other examples there's nothing especially notable about it. Which was kind of my point - The Professor was holding SN up as some kind of paragon of craft brewing which IMO is a serious stretch.
-
re: Josh
The Professor
Sep 25, 2012 09:21 PM
It's all good...opinions will vary.
But I really do hold Sierra, Anchor, and Sam Adams in very high regard because of the high quality and consistency of their products...not to mention that they seem to understand the lost art of 'balance'...something lacking in so manyf beers these days.-
re: The Professor
Josh
Sep 29, 2012 10:30 AM
I agree that Sierra and Anchor deserve kudos for quality control and consistency. Now that I'm living in SF I'm very pleased that my neighborhood beer bar has the Anchor Zymaster series in heavy rotation, which at present is a really tasty take on an English mild. Now there's a style I'd love to see more breweries making.
Sam Adams, though, not sure I agree. Boston Lager is good, but their seasonal releases, like the Lemon Pledge-flavored Summer Ale, are nasty.
-
-
-
-
-
re: Chinon00
Insidious Rex
Sep 25, 2012 10:45 AM
Yeah describing Sierra Nevada beers as generally boring is a bit of a stretch. Ive even heard some newbie beer snobs (NOT Josh) trash them in the same way I hear them trash Sam Adams as uninteresting near-macro "swill" simply because they are so ubiquitous and large in comparison to other craft breweries. Thats of course patently ridiculous. You dont judge a beer by how easy it is to obtain or how big the brewery is. And anyway I think SN has some one offs that should definitely at least peak interests (Hoptimum and Life & Limb come to mind) right along there with the fashionable beer names we like to drop so much. And Josh that list, as you noted, was a list of excellent but almost impossible beers to get (unless you are fortunate enough to call San Diego home. Is Pliny an easy find in southern Cal?) which makes it largely irrelevant when you are discounting Sierra Nevada's beers for being not as interesting as these super amazing elite choices. If you live in Miami I guess you can say LeBron James is the only good reason to buy a ticket to a basketball game but he doesnt play in my city so I rarely get to see him but John Wall is a pretty talented point guard who plays just a few miles from me so Ill pay for that ticket a lot more often. Doesnt make him a chump just because hes easy to find (sorry for the sports analogy foodies!!).
That being said, I too generally dont get Sierra Nevada regular line up beer on tap very often when Im out although not necessarily because I find them boring but because Ive had them so much (is that the same thing?).
-
-
-
-
-
-
re: Chinon00
SN beers are boring because its not new, bbl aged, sour, weird ingredients, experimental, over the top in flavor, or inconsistent quality? That seems to be what beer geeks prefer these days - I personally don't get it. Personally I find their depth, qualtiy control, and consistency far from boring. Some people think big flavor is the ultimate indicator of quality, thankfully there are still some brewers who have more depth.
-
-
re: MVNYC
Silverjay
Sep 27, 2012 07:01 PM
I like SN's beer. I'm always up for trying their seasonals and their one-offs. Even in the face of all sorts of exotic smaller brewery brews when I go to craft beer bars, I don't hesitate so see what SN is up to. It's a great brewery. And they are widely distributed. HOWEVER, as a response to the OP who is an IPA lover looking for something new, I disagree with SN as a recommendation, along with the old-man-on- the-front porch missive that they are "..much better than most of the rest of the flood of micro products on the shelves these days." This sounds like Sierra Nevada is the 'end of the line. Look no further'. Not boring beers, but a boring suggestion.
Not sure of the distribution of these, but...
Hair of the Dog's Blue Dot is a fantastic IPA with a flowery, piney nose, hoppy front end taste, but clean on the back. It's really hard to believe how they've done such a great job of coaxing the bitterness out of the back end. Not necessarily round and sweet, but not palate burning in any way. Great beer. From Portland, seen it in Seattle. Not sure how much further they go.
Can't overlook both the Dogfish Head 60 and 90 Minute IPAs, which are also great, not so bitter on the backend, IPA's. They are both a lot sweeter than their western IPA brethren. And they don't taste so pronounced of Cascade hops like many of the western IPAs do. They should be available all over.
As mentioned below, Houblon Chouffe is an interesting "Belgian Triple IPA". Little bit of Belgian triple funkiness and some hoppy piney-grapefruitness. It's a schizophrenic beverage for sure, but maintains a pretty sophisticated balance. It's definitely on the sweeter side.
Simcoe hops. I'm not sure which beers on the market use this variety, but they are a very interesting cultivated type that have all the bold characteristics of other types of hops without too much bitterness. I love Weyerbacher's Double Simcoe IPA, which is a DIPA and a bit high gravity, but interesting and bold without being too bitter and not being something from Delaware. Awesome beer.
Black IPAs. I haven't had too many of these and don't have specific recs, but they are an interesting sub-category to explore. Seem to be a little nuttier or coffee-like, but still have some hoppy pine and grapefruitiness.
-
re: MVNYC
Josh
Sep 27, 2012 08:17 PM
I know that SN makes some interesting small-batch and collaboration stuff. I'm not really trying to disrespect their history. It just bugs me to see them held up as some kind of paragon of craft brewing when so much of their output is pretty pedestrian.
-
re: Josh
MVNYC
Sep 28, 2012 05:20 AM
I suppose I agree with you, their main offerings are not usually among the best in category. They are simply well made beers but if I go to a beer bar or beer store I will most likely pick up something else.
I was just pointing out that they do make smaller batches that cater to the more hardcore beer enthusiasts. and some of these beers are very good.
-
-
-
-
-
re: MVNYC
Chinon00
Sep 30, 2012 05:37 PM
Besides the fact that its highly subjective my point is though that the vast majority of breweries can't make that claim. Having multiple beers that are among the best in their style is an extremely high standard and shouldn't disqualify any a brewery.
-
re: Chinon00
Josh
Sep 30, 2012 07:51 PM
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I don't believe anyone is denigrating the beers SN produces. At one time they were a leading innovator. It seems to me that's how most industries work - yesterday's leading innovator becomes today's staid traditionalist.
I would recommend any of Samuel Smith's beers in a heartbeat. They are still great beers.
But for me, if someone's asking about what to try when seeking something new I'll probably always take that pretty literally and try to think of people who are today's innovators.
Random left-field observation: not only has SN been attempting to do some different stuff recently, but so has Widmer. Today at Toronado I had a glass of a hibiscus gose (!) that was surprisingly delicious. I was fairly shocked to see this kind of beer coming from Widmer. I've seen some other unusual offerings from them lately, too, like IPAs made with Nelson hops.
-
-
re: Josh
The Professor
Sep 30, 2012 08:41 PM
Hibiscus Gose! wow...That sounds _really_ interesting. I'm generally not a fan of herbed or fruited beers and the like, but I do love hibiscus...I drink hibiscus tea from China quite frequently.
Sounds to me like it's presence in Gose could be something really tasty.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
re: LStaff
The Professor
Sep 27, 2012 06:28 PM
I agree. A large segment of the craft beer industry these days seems to be more focused on gimmickry than anything else... and not very skillfully, either..
To me, _that's_ boring.
Different strokes, I guess. LOL -
re: LStaff
Josh
Sep 27, 2012 08:10 PM
I was stuck at a sports bar tonight for a work function where the best beers on offer were SNPA and Torpedo. In a word: boring. I don't disagree that their beers are well-made, but they are certainly not up to the standard of what smaller, younger breweries are doing - at least not when it comes to their larger production mass-market beers.
-
re: Josh
The Professor
Sep 27, 2012 09:48 PM
Ummmm...just to be clear... I wasn't directing it at you Josh.
And although it means nothing, it's safe to say that it is likely that I've tried hundreds more beers.
I'm just expressing an opinion (that a lot of beer lovers also share). It's fine if you disagree.I just personally think that the craft industry (which I have loved and supported from day one) has lost it's way with it's gimmicky approach to things. I like an "in your face" beer as much as the next guy...and I appreciate that such brews are much easier to crank out than the rather more well balanced output of companies like Sierra, Boston Brewing, etc.
But really---It's only beer, man. :-) Consumers are already getting more hip to the hype and smoke and mirrors (and inflated prices) that have become so prevalent in the beer world.
In the end, the best answer is simple...Drink what you like, ignore the rest.
It's really not a bIg deal. (it's only beer).-
-
re: The Professor
Silverjay
Sep 28, 2012 04:22 AM
I don't know anybody who loves beer who feels as jaded about the current craft beer movement that would simply throw in the towel and recommend Sierra Nevada as if the rest of the industry doesn't get it because they have become "too gimmicky". If you have tried hundreds of beers as you boast, surely you can take as much time to ply through your memories to recommend some, as you took time to wax poetic on your pet theory about the decline of western beer civilization.
-
re: Silverjay
The Professor
Sep 28, 2012 08:19 AM
LOL! Wax poetic...I love it.
Decline? We're hardly in the midst of a decline...good god... if anything, the opposite is true. I just honestly think that in the glut of products out there calling themselves IPA, Sierra and Anchor happen to do it better than _most_ of the smaller brewers out there. There are a few exceptions...I just don't give a free pass to the smaller, younger breweries because contrary to industry hype, 'smaller' doesn't guarantee 'better'.Since you correctly called me out on not offering a recommendation (too busy 'waxing', I guess. LOL), I will cheerfully offer that Stone's assorted takes on IPA are certainly worthy (even if I'm not a huge fan of the rest of their other output).
-
-
-
-
re: MVNYC
The Professor
Sep 28, 2012 07:18 PM
You're probably right...that seems to be the norm in IPAs of the "American" type (we Americans are well known for over-doing and 'supersizing" everything. LOL). I like a profoundly bitter character in IPA (even the IPA I was drinking 45+ years ago clocked in at 75 or more IBUs), but it _is_ nice to have a good malt backbone to balance things.
Perhaps the OP should be looking at some of the current IPAs from the UK, as they are not nearly as aggressive as Americans tend to make them. The original IPAs of the 19th century were aged for 5 or 6 months since the voyage to India could take that long (and evidently, those original IPAs were no stronger than the standard ales of the day); nowadays of course, the fashion is to drink IPAs rather young while the hop flavors and bitterness are much more aggressive.
Some of the modern, more subdued British IPAs might be more to the OP's liking.
-
-
re: The Professor
Josh
Sep 29, 2012 10:35 AM
Ahhh, now here's something we can definitely agree on. IPA is a style I will rarely order from an unknown craft brewery because too often they're not made well. I think IPA is a very difficult style to make well because getting that malt/hop balance right when pushing the hoppier end of the flavor profile requires a lot of finesse.
-
re: Josh
The Professor
Sep 29, 2012 02:52 PM
Very true, especially since the current fashion is to package IPAs to be consumed in a comparatively 'young' state, rather than maturing them first as was usually done in the past.
There _are_ a few decent IPAs out there. The better ones manage to achieve plenty of hop flavor, intense bitterness, and good aroma without the unpleasantly grassy and harsh notes that too many modern IPAs seem to exhibit.
The style has, after all, taken off like a rocket in recent years so there's bound to be a bunch of mediocre ones popping up. . Funny though, how IPA has become such 'standard" beer now; back when it was my favorite beer during my college years 43 years ago, I spent a lot of time trying to explain to my friends what it was. ( '"Yes, it's supposed to taste like that") LOL. If I brought sixpack to a party, at least I knew most of the bottles would practically wind up being a private stash.
Everyone else was afraid of the stuff. ;-)-
re: The Professor
Jim Dorsch
Sep 29, 2012 02:56 PM
Yes, sometime in the recent past everyone stopped disliking hops and they now seek them out.
-
-
-
-
-
-
re: LStaff
Sierra Nevada Southern Hemisphere and Northern Hemishpere are good beers. The Estate Ale they make is quite good.
The new sour beer Brux is also quite good. Sierra Nevada has the most impressive yeast management team in the US.
I think people are going for sour beers these days because IPA and hop bombs have been saturating the market.
-
-
-
-
-
-
You might consider exploring some European beer styles, including bitters, milds and IPAs from England which tend to be more balanced and not as hop-forward as American IPAs, although you're already familiar with the excellent Bell's Two Hearted. You can also explore beers from Germany and Belgium, which introduce different flavors altogether. Check out beeradvocate.com for more details on the world's beers.
