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Can I cook tomato sauce in my tin-lined copper pot?

r
rbraham Sep 10, 2012 05:55 PM

See subject. There's a lot of stuff floating around the web. Now that I've spent $$ on copper ware, my wife claims I'm poisoning her.

Please help.

  1. j
    John Francis Sep 11, 2012 02:50 AM

    Just in case, look closely at the tinning to make sure no copper is showing. You may have to hold it at an angle to the light to see the telltale orange patches, if there are any. If you don't see them, and your wife really does get sick from her food, the problem lies elsewhere.

    1 Reply
    1. re: John Francis
      Chemicalkinetics Sep 11, 2012 09:20 AM

      <If you don't see them, and your wife really does get sick from her food, the problem lies elsewhere.>

      Agree.

    2. e
      elkahani Sep 10, 2012 07:37 PM

      she is tasting a metallic taste, some items are claimed by natural tasters to give items metalic tastes. non stainles knives are the most notable cause.

      but tomato acid is known to react with funky flavor on alot of metal objects.

      as a hunter i do know that tin, copper steel/iron bismuth ect are listed as non toxic, in old old times arsenic was present in small amounts in tin, but that accualy helps as like alchol arscenic can be tolirated if tolerances are raised. it's also one reason we no longer have real tin cans.

      other option is shes sick metalic tastes are common with some illnesses hence the your killing me thoughts

      8 Replies
      1. re: elkahani
        r
        rbraham Sep 10, 2012 08:31 PM

        Well, here we are at a temporary impasse. :)

        For my part, I couldn't smell or taste a damn thing. Zero. My dog could fart and I wouldn't notice, and that's saying a lot.

        My wife did not taste the sauce.

        So, I will show her this thread so far, and the two of us will move to round two, which is, thankfully, of some reaction of tin with cooked tomatoes.

        Obviously, if tomatoes taste off to _some_ people, there must be _some_ chemical reaction taking place. I'm more than happy to move on, but I'm sure one of us will go out our way to sense, or make-up, a different taste. Fear is an extraordinary, instinctive part of psychophysics.

        So, for the interest of science, what is going on with the flavor change? There are/were people who were turned off by canned tomatoes?

        And, as she just called out from the sofa, how long can tomato sauce sit in the pot before it eats through through the pot, and stove, and down through the kitchen floor through seven floors to the street, like an Alien's blood? (The last part I added.)

        1. re: rbraham
          r
          rbraham Sep 10, 2012 08:34 PM

          That E-how is good. Just read it.

          1. re: rbraham
            Chemicalkinetics Sep 10, 2012 08:41 PM

            <if tomatoes taste off to _some_ people, there must be _some_ chemical reaction taking place>

            Keep in mind that just because you can taste something, it does not mean it is bad. For example, iron gives off a very noticeable and distinct taste, but iron is fairly safe for most people. Vice versa, just because you canNOT taste something, it does not mean it is safe neither.

            <how long can tomato sauce sit in the pot before it eats through through the pot>

            Not in a hundred year, not unless you poke the tin with your utensils.

            Tin and stainless steel are fairly safe when we are talking about cookware.

            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
              r
              rbraham Sep 10, 2012 08:50 PM

              For shits and giggles I looked up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organoti... and, unsurprisingly, understood nothing, except for one word I understood, lithium salts, a chemical I had avidly been using for 20 years. Benefits!

              FWIW, to go off-topic, I've read that iron-supplemented breakfast cereal is just that, with ground up FE, and a magnet will attract the cereal. I suppose a super powerful one could distend your stomach a little. (I subscribe to a board with a lot of physicists, and I just realized to post that as a query there...)

              1. re: rbraham
                Chemicalkinetics Sep 10, 2012 08:57 PM

                < lithium salts, a chemical I had avidly been using for 20 years>

                I doubt you are/were using the same lithium salt....

                :)

            2. re: rbraham
              k
              kaleokahu Sep 11, 2012 07:54 AM

              Hi, Rob:

              As Desi Arnaz used to say, Aiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi!

              Look, if DW imagines vividly enough, if she's scared herself enough, she is going to taste something off. I mean, call something Kryptonite Souffle, and you're going to experience it negatively. The fact that she didn't even *taste* your tomato sauce is not an encouraging sign, BTW.

              This may be about something completely unrelated to tin and tomatoes, you know that, right? It *may* be that she thinks you're spending too much time/money on high-end copperware. Here's an idea: Have her taste the *tin* itself. Have her touch the tip of that spousal tongue to the lining of one of your pans. It doesn't taste of anything. If she says it does, you have to figure out what the real problem is, but it's not tomatoes and tin.

              Aloha,
              Kaleo

              1. re: kaleokahu
                r
                rbraham Sep 11, 2012 08:38 AM

                <It *may* be that she thinks you're spending too much time/money on high-end copperware.>

                1000% right. I was going to mention that in my wrap-up report. I just emailed this URL to her at work.

                Rob

                ps: DW = Designated Wife?

                1. re: rbraham
                  k
                  kaleokahu Sep 11, 2012 08:57 AM

                  Rob:

                  DW = Dear Wife.

                  She should be comforted to know that, after awhile, you'll have all the copper you need (maybe a little more), and then it tapers off. Leaving you with a batterie you will never need to replace--unless you go over to the dark side... And you can always get your $ back out of by reselling and not get hurt.

                  Aloha,
                  Kaleo

          2. k
            kaleokahu Sep 10, 2012 06:14 PM

            Hey, Rob:

            Tell her she's ignoring all the other, little poisonings...

            Seriously, 20 minutes ago I pimped some deglazed wine/tomato gravy from a big tinned saute to go on/over the meatballs in another tinned gratin.

            2x seriously, would all three kitchens of state of the French Republic be serving poisoned food?

            Aloha,
            Kaleo

            4 Replies
            1. re: kaleokahu
              r
              rbraham Sep 10, 2012 06:38 PM

              She says the tin is leaching into the sauce. I just made a fresh (ie from a whole bunch of bruised tomatoes my friend sold me for pennies) sauce and a huge bunch of basil, little garlic, etc.

              I had to take a Benadryl from sneezing so much, so I can't smell/taste a thing, and my beloved refused to have it. (I made for her a quick pan sauce for the chicken I had separately been sautéing.)

              My sauce is crying out in the wilderness.

              If you guys would --this is serious for my family safety and peace of mind--could I ask of you to take some time, and gather up some clear rebuttals to what she has been reading--if the rebuttals are necessary or not--and clearly and concisely lay out the facts?

              I know you're a gazillion times more comfortable with this chemistry.

              I will show her this thread. She is already asking "what did it say?"

              Thanks,
              Rob

              1. re: rbraham
                k
                kaleokahu Sep 10, 2012 07:26 PM

                Rob:

                Oh, man, I feel for your domestic tranquility... Since you are her spouse and not I, let me be frank. If she requires citations to authorities for what follows, they are plentiful.

                She does not believe that the chefs for the President, Senat and Assemblee Nationale of France are not poisoning their bosses? How closed a mind are we dealing with here?

                Copper toxicity is extremely rare. Tin toxicity is almost unheard of--there are probably more issues with SS than tin. Most Americans are *deficient* in dietary copper. The length of time a tomato sauce is actually exposed to any copper at all? ZERO if your linings are good. TINY if you have some scratches. If copper is her issue, she should be more concerned about the water in your pipes than your pans.

                This is a little like proving there's no monster under the bed.

                Good Luck,
                Aloha,
                Kaleo

                PS What has she been reading?

                1. re: kaleokahu
                  s
                  Spot Sep 10, 2012 07:28 PM

                  Holy crap, kaleo. Perfect.

                2. re: rbraham
                  Chemicalkinetics Sep 10, 2012 07:48 PM

                  <tin is leaching into the sauce>

                  Well, tin does leach into food to some extends. I don't think this is surprising. In fact, tin more than likely just fall and stripped into your foods as opposed to leaching. Why else do you think you need to retin your copper cookware? Tin, however, has a very low toxicity profile, which is why tin was used for packaging foods.

                  Remember tin cans and tin canning?

                  http://www.ehow.com/facts_7147597_tin...

                  Tin, actually, has a low effective toxicity for several reasons. For one, tin itself is not extremely toxic. However, more importantly is that tin is not very reactive (though not inert). This is why you can store foods for a very long long time in tin cans. Tin element has a very low solubility and a low absorption, which means it is not readily absorbed by human digestive system. All of these make tin nontoxic when compared to copper.

                  This is the bigger picture:
                  1) Tin does not dissolve easily into the liquid 2) For the small percentage which does, it does not get absorbed by the body easily, and 3) for that tiny amount of tin which is both dissolved and absorbed.... well, it turns out that tin is not very toxic. All of these make tin safe in comparison.

                  This is, of course, not to say that tin is absolutely nontoxic, but it is one of the safest metals.

                  Although tin element and inorganic tin compounds are fairly nontoxic, the organotin elements can be quiet toxic. Nevertheless, you are not going to form organotin when you cook.

              2. Chemicalkinetics Sep 10, 2012 06:11 PM

                I am sure your copper pot is lined with something and not exposed copper, right? If the interior surface is stainless steel, then the food only get to touch the stainless steel. If the interior surface is tinned, then the food is touching the tin.

                If your cooking surface is pure copper, then you better retin it soon.

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