Psst... We're working on the next generation of Chowhound! View >
HOME > Chowhound > San Francisco Bay Area >
Sep 4, 2012 05:35 PM

The French Laundry or spread the wealth?

We will be in Napa and Sonoma in early November. I was able to secure a lunch reservation at The French Laundry for our trip.

We love creative, interesting, and most of all, delicious food across the range of categories from food trucks to top-10 dining experiences (such as The Inn at Little Washington). I know from reading the boards here that there are practically endless options for quality dining in this area of California and narrowing down options for a dining plan is even more difficult than choosing which wineries to tour.

So my question is: Should we spend a large portion of our budget for the trip on the one meal at TFL forcing us to be fairly frugal the balance of our trip or would we be better served to skip TFL - which would be a once-in-a-lifetime experience - in favor of having 3-4 nicer meals?

Among the options that would enter the mix would be Barndiva, REDD, The Girl and the Fig, Sante, FARM at the Caneros Inn, Ad Hoc (probably on a Monday night for the fried chicken), and Mustards just to name a few. We'll also be spending a few days in SF proper (greatly enjoyed Baker & Banker on our last visit).

Thank you in advance.

  1. Click to Upload a photo (10 MB limit)
  1. For what it's worth, Becky, I think you would have a lot more fun by visiting different restaurants, rather than splurging on the FL. By the way, I have had excellent meals at Redd and Mustards, and an odd, uneven meal at Girl and the Fig. For a casual meal, you might consider The Fig in Glen Ellen; fairly priced, good food, and no corkage. Enjoy your trip. P.S. forgot to mention, had a very, very good dinner at Barndiva.

    5 Replies
    1. re: pinotho

      Cancel French Laundry. It is overpriced, not worth it. You can take that same amount of money and have three memorable meals elsewhere for the same price. What you will remember about FL is that you paid too much and were over served. One or two of the dishes are fabulous, the rest are ok. So, my money says: spread it out.

      1. re: tstrum

        I will say overpriced was not my experience at all. I could see thinking it was not worth it because that is a subjective judgment based on how far one had to travel, and how much a stretch of a budget it is etc. However, as "overpriced" I certainly did not feel that way. The service is unparalleled, the ingredients are the best money can buy, the wine list is one of the best in the United States.

        It may not suit everyone's palate - may be too safe in its choices to be truly memorable for the adventurous - but the idea that TFL is some sort of tourist trap - where they charge lots of money just because they can - I've never seen any indication of that at all. You see the money in the ingredients, in the space, in the service, in the cellar.

        1. re: goldangl95

          Sure and a lot of profit for the owner. The costs of space, ingredients and labor are 1/3 the total price. Total margin= 66%. Seems a bit high to me. But I suppose whatever the market will bear....

          1. re: tstrum

            Restaurant business has low margin.

            1. re: tstrum

              Where are you getting these numbers from? I believe fairly recently, the French Laundry actually lost money as a restaurant. It is very useful in terms of branding for cook books, Thomas Keller's other restaurants etc. But I wasn't aware of large profit margins and certainly not such ridiculously high ones.

      2. Rebecky,
        This is a really good question, and makes me think a lot about the ideas behind value. However, getting a res at FL is quite a difficult thing, so my reaction is to urge you to go to FL, then skrimp during the rest of your trip. If you plan to return to the area within a few years, you can enjoy many of the other places. Chances are that FL will be a priceless memory for you. But then, that is only my guess.

        9 Replies
        1. re: Tripeler

          If you can comfortably afford to go, I would go to the French Laundry while it still has that caché and drive to be excellent.

          I went to the French Laundry for dinner before the current chef took over. My thoughts then was that it was a perfect, cozily extravagant meal. Not all dishes were wildly creative, nor were all dishes pitch perfect, but enough of the dishes were both that I had a very enjoyable, flawless experience.

          The dinner was something I could afford, but I remember thinking that if I was still in grad school, and had to save for a year to justify going, I would have been disappointed.

          The French Laundry is a great experience, but it is, in the end, a restaurant that has to cater to many who expect certain standard proteins and dishes, as well as customers who are not that adventurous but want to say they ate at a Michelin three star. So, keep that in mind.

          1. re: goldangl95

            French Laundry's chef has been Thomas Keller since he bought it in 1994. The #2 has changed a few times.

            1. re: Robert Lauriston

              Yea,I meant the chef de cuisine (which I consider the "chef"). I realize Thomas Keller still stops by the French Laundry occasionally, and that the French Laundry and Per Se are linked in various ways, and his tastes and aesthetics and ideas are very much evident so it's not an absentee celebrity chef issue - but my understanding is that Thomas Keller does give his chefs de cuisine a lot of reign to do what they wish. And from reports, the food under Hollingsworth is distinct from Lee's.

              1. re: goldangl95

                Judging by the menus at the places opened by former #2s, they didn't have that much free rein at TFL.

                1. re: Robert Lauriston

                  Completely disagree, Robert. The #2s open their own restaurants to spread their wings, but having eaten there a number of times over the past decade (HAVE YOU?), I can assure that both Corey and Timothy have a great deal of influence over their preparations. Corey added a significant number of Asian-influenced dishes and, now, Timothy has taken the menu in a remarkably different direction with more garden- and produce-inspired dishes.

                  Just because they move on to do entirely different things hardly means their influence is not felt at the restaurants.

                  1. re: CarrieWas218

                    I haven't eaten there since the Schmitts sold it to Keller. Yesterday's menu does look lighter and more digestible than the last time I looked at it.


                    1. re: Robert Lauriston

                      My FL meals under Tim were far more innovative and interesting than those I've had under Corey - but I appreciate more farm-sourced ingredients than the Asian-influenced "technique-driven" dishes. Perhaps that is why I didn't appreciate Benu as much as others have as well.

                      The difference is that restaurants like AQ, Coi, Manresa, and Crenn are all stepping up to the technique plate and able to produce what used to be unique to FL for less money.

                      I also think that because other establishments like this ARE able to produce exceptional and interesting meals, the bar and experience is higher and those reporting back are not having "the once-in-a-lifetime" meal because there are so many similarities at other restaurants.

                      1. re: CarrieWas218

                        Whatever the reason, if you were researching where to eat a once-in-a-lifetime blowout meal in the SF Bay Area with an open mind and no Michelin guide, 10-15 years ago TFL might have been an easy answer, but today it seems an unlikely choice.

                        1. re: Robert Lauriston

                          I will say for the French Laundry the service, sommelier/wine list etc, making you feel like a valued customer and the whole package is two steps above any other tasting menu type place I've been in CA.

                          Not in a fawning way just impeccably done.

        2. For me, the question would come down to:
          1) How frugal? If you say you can't have any other $50/pp dinner anywhere else, it's not worth it. There's just too much good stuff at the $80/$90/pp price range. If it means no other $120/pp dinners,but all other meals can be $50/pp, maybe it's worth it.
          2) How many michelin-3-star places have you been to? How important is it to hit one?
          3) How much would it change your budget if you hit Saison or Medowood instead? Medowwood is also 3 stars, Saison I think is cooking better than the TFL meal I had a long time ago.

          2 Replies
          1. re: bbulkow

            I think the first two questions are excellent. As for the third, Saison and Meadowood are essentially the same price as TFL, so I don't see how it would change the budget. BTW, the Saison website is pretentious and unhelpful, but it does link to Open Table for reservations. Did they abandon the pre-paid ticket system?

            1. re: Ruth Lafler

              Saison's chef counter uses the SeatMe ticket system. The dining room uses Opentable and requires a credit card when making the reservation.

          2. I would strongly recommend against the Girl and The Fig - not sure I've ever been so disappointed.

            If you're going to be in the city as well I would vote for multiple meals, La Folie for example is a much lower price point but incredible food. There are many others as well.

            1. Thanks so much to everyone for your input and additional recommendations. It sounds like it comes down to: do we have our hearts set on eating at TFL for the name/reputation/stars/bragging rights v. having a number of very enjoyable experiences at a range of restaurants. My inclination is the latter - will post a tentative itinerary here after consultation with SO. And, yes, we'll have 3 days in SF proper so opening up more options there is helpful. Thank you again.

              (Very sad to hear the negative reports on The Girl and the Fig - but we have more than enough other ideas to replace that on the list.)

              1 Reply
              1. re: rebecky75

                We had a lovely and delicious lunch at G&F. It's a casual place right on the square. Not "fine dining" IMO.