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Help me match each pan to a brand

j
jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 10:30 AM

I have narrowed it down to buying 3 pans/pots but want to stay within a budget so I need to mix and match. Basically, I want to buy the best brand to match the pot who needs the best quality most

I am looking to buy:

3/4qt Saute Pan
2-3qt Saucier/Saucepan (For risotto, rice, sauces)
10-11" Skillet/Frypan - This pan is optional for now if I need to cut budget

I am currently considering All-clad (SS, D5, and copper core), Demeyere (Apollo, Atlantis) and Viking V7. If I wanted to splurge on Demeyere, which pan should I go for?

Guidelines/Budget:
I want to stay under $400 (willing to buy All-Clad seconds if needed).
Weight is very important since my GF will need to handle these pans as well. She will like to handle the saucepan and the saute pan mostly.
We are not professional cooks but we LOVE to cook.

How would you spend your money?

One last question, is the Apollo line discontinued in the US? I saw Sur La had the Industry line which appeared to be the same thing

Thanks!

  1. Sid Post Jul 23, 2012 12:42 PM

    For me, $200 for a Demeyere Atlantis Stainless Steel Saucepan 3 quart to start. With the silver and copper base layers, it beats All-Clad and Viking IMHO. The base is heavy so, it will balance nice and has a handle that will clear nearby pots and pans. Welded handles are nicer then rivieted ones too.

    The Demeyere Atlantis Stainless Steel Saute Pan will run ~$260 so, it's a bit above your budget. It has the welded helper handle too.

    De Buyer Mineral pans are super sweet for a skillet - fry pan. Buy one at a later date when the finances allow. Buying the right pan first, it the cheapest. Buying a pan you don't like (All-Clad in my case) is the most expensive way to purchase what you want.

    All-Clad needs to change their handles. Until then the only thing I would consider are pots with two loop handles. The deep V handle is a horrible design as far as I'm concerned.

    5 Replies
    1. re: Sid Post
      j
      jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 01:04 PM

      Why do you choose starting with an expensive saucepan over the saute pan or frying pan?

      I honestly don't mind the All-Clad D5 handles. They are not as robust as the Demeyere or Lodge Signature series though.

      1. re: Sid Post
        g
        GH1618 Jul 23, 2012 01:22 PM

        All-Clad did change their handles somewhat, but I like the original handle. I only pick up small pans with one hand, and the original is comfortable if I turn my wrist so my fingertips come around to the top. I find that I must also do this with my de Buyer pan, but nobody complains about those handles.

        1. re: GH1618
          j
          jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 01:49 PM

          am I really going to notice a performance difference between the AC D5 and Atlantis?

          1. re: jbrady3324
            g
            GH1618 Jul 23, 2012 02:06 PM

            I assume you meant to respond to Sid Post, but what do you mean by "performance" and for which pan and what uses?

            1. re: GH1618
              j
              jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 02:12 PM

              I meant "performance difference" (fixed original post). I love to cook but I am not extremely demanding. With that being said, will the Atlantis line be worth the extra money over the All-Clad D5 line? I am talking about any of the pots/pans that I want to purchase above

              Right now, I cooked meats mostly on lodge cast iron pans (skillet and grill pan) and occasionally in my cast iron dutch oven. The reason I want a saute pan is to be able to cook meats with liquids. I could do this in the dutch oven but it is enamel and doesn't have a big enough flat base.

      2. b
        biscottifan Jul 23, 2012 01:09 PM

        The Demeyere Atlantis 11" frypan is usually on sale. It has a good weight and even heating. One of my favorite pans. I also have the 9.4" frypan but that is more expensive because the 11" is a better seller.

        You might be better off with the lighter All-Clad for the saute pan and the sauce/saucier pan.

        3 Replies
        1. re: biscottifan
          j
          jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 01:13 PM

          On-sale where? That was my favorite pan at Sur La for sure. The saucepan was great too but might be too heavy, like you said, (when full) for my gf

          Do you know how the Demeyere Industry line compares?

          1. re: jbrady3324
            b
            biscottifan Jul 24, 2012 08:08 AM

            The $200 price of the Demeyere Atlantis 11" frypan is the sale price. When I first looked at Demeyere 3 years ago the price for that piece was higher than that. As I said the 9.4" frypan costs more. Sometimes at Thanksgiving and Christmas you can find even better deals. I haven't seen the Industry line but the details given imply that it doesn't use the Tripl'Induc layers that Atlantis does. I have an induction cooktop and the Atlantis works very well on it.

            Right now Cutlery and More has the 11" proline on sale for $170.

            1. re: biscottifan
              j
              jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 08:39 AM

              Hmm, I am actually local to Cutlery and more.. interesting

        2. g
          GH1618 Jul 23, 2012 01:18 PM

          My All-Clad saucier is my favorite pan, but I don't think it doubles as an ordinary "sauce" pan. I use mine specifically for sauces and therefore have the smallest (one qt) to save money. This is much too small for risotto. I have the MC2, which also saves money. This is the best value if you are interested in cooking qualities over appearance. The smallest MC2 saucier is now two qts., which is still too small for risotto, I think.

          For a saucepan, I want a big one, and just replaced an old, broken pan with a 3.5 qt. All-Clad.

          If risotto is important, perhaps you should be looking at a "chef's pan" and using it as the saucier.

          2 Replies
          1. re: GH1618
            j
            jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 01:22 PM

            I have been looking at the MC2 line and just worried about it looking beat up after a lot of use. I personally like the beat up-rustic look but the pan probably will be hanging from the pot rack so I might "like" it to look good in appearance. So the extra money over a lifetime might be worth it.

            I am considering the MC2 line for sauce pots though. I think those look great beat up!

            1. re: GH1618
              j
              jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 01:34 PM

              We tend to only cook for 2, but I guess if I want these to last "forever" going bigger might be better.

            2. kaleokahu Jul 23, 2012 03:00 PM

              You might like the Falk Try-Me small saucier.

              6 Replies
              1. re: kaleokahu
                j
                jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 03:03 PM

                I keep considering the Falk but I think 1.5 qt might be too small. And I am not sure I can take care of copper exterior!

                1. re: jbrady3324
                  g
                  GH1618 Jul 23, 2012 03:12 PM

                  One and one-half qt is a nice size if you want a saucier for making sauces and not much else. But that doesn't fit with your stated objective of getting just a few pans to stay within budget.

                  As for copper, there are some here who will recommend copper no matter what situation is posed, so you should factor that bias into the equation.

                  1. re: GH1618
                    j
                    jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 03:21 PM

                    I hear ya. I want to stick to SS for now.

                  2. re: jbrady3324
                    kaleokahu Jul 23, 2012 03:40 PM

                    Hi, jbrady:

                    Do what you want, but there's really nothing to "take care of" with Falk--that's why they put on the brushed finish. And you'd be cooking on SS.

                    The Try-Me would shoot half you budget, leaving you $100/pan for the other two, is all. I recommended that on the basis of your situation posed, namely that "the best brand to match the pot who needs the best quality most".

                    Have Fun,
                    Kaleo

                    1. re: kaleokahu
                      j
                      jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 03:42 PM

                      Ah. So is it general opinion that a sauce pan is the pan that determines the best quality? if so, why is that?

                      I am new to all of this and really want to learn and make a choice that I will be happy with in the future.

                      1. re: jbrady3324
                        kaleokahu Jul 23, 2012 06:18 PM

                        Hi, jbrady: "[I]s it general opinion that a sauce pan is the pan that determines the best quality? if so, why is that?"

                        If you will be using a saucepan or saucier for *sauces* (as opposed to just boiling/blanching/reheating), arguably so. The wherefore is responsiveness--up *and* down, even heating and control. You decrease the risk of burning pan drippings or scalding sauces.

                        However, an equally persuasive case can be made for making your best (or only copper) pan a saute. It depends a lot on what and how you cook. I merely suggested the Falk saucier rather than a saute because it is heavily discounted as their Try Me. It is a pan you would probably never willingly give up or replace.

                        Tim gave good advice regarding tinned. If you have no aversion to vintage, and if you have any tolerance for being careful of it, astounding bargains can be found. For example, today I took delivery of a 9L tinned, hammered cocotte (Dutch Oven) that is a full 3mm thick. $88. For comparison, the same configuration by Le Creuset is $410 list and can be had for $285. And the cocotte is more than twice the pan.

                        How do you want to spend your dollars?

                        Cheers,
                        Kaleo

                2. Chemicalkinetics Jul 23, 2012 04:07 PM

                  Jbrady,

                  I am taking this one step back. Have you used a stainless steel surface cookware before? If not, you may want to reconsider spending too much on your first set of cookware. Some people like Teflon coated cookware, some like stainless steel, and some like cast iron. You can get the highest quality stainless steel surface cookware in the world, but if you hate stainless steel, then you will hate it.

                  2 Replies
                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                    j
                    jbrady3324 Jul 23, 2012 04:11 PM

                    Yes I have. I really despise Teflon coated cookware and prefer Cast Iron (bare) and Stainless Steel

                    1. re: jbrady3324
                      Chemicalkinetics Jul 23, 2012 04:14 PM

                      Got it. :) In that case, good luck with your selection. All your selections are very good.

                  2. tim irvine Jul 23, 2012 05:50 PM

                    I agree with Sid on the mineral for a fry pan. For sauce and sauté, have you ever tried tin? I really love the control heavy copper provides and tin lined is way cheaper than SS lined plus I like its slightly less "sticky" (than SS) quality. I hear you on weight, but if you have a stove where you can slide things around, it ought to be manageable. I think, personal but strong opinion, that a steel fry pan like a Mineral just makes a ton of sense even if you can afford more. On sauce and sauté, I'd give tin lined copper a try before ruling it out.

                    1. g
                      GH1618 Jul 23, 2012 09:47 PM

                      A 26 cm Mineral B frying pan would be nice, but keep in mind that it weighs nearly 2 kg. The 24 cm pan weighs only 1-1/3 kg, because it is a little thinner as well as smaller diameter. I don't have either but have a 26 cm Mineral B grill pan, which I like very much.

                      1. k
                        khuzdul Jul 24, 2012 06:53 AM

                        FYI, Unlike their flat bottomed encapsulated disk bottom pots (inductoseal with 2mm copper disc vs inductobase with ~5mm alumnium disc) the Demeyere pots that have 7 ply material from edge to edge (e.g. conical sauteuse and frypans) are all made of the same 7 ply material regardless of line. In theory one would be paying extra for their handles to match their flat bottomed Atlantis cookware if you get Atlantis 7 ply cookware. Since you indicate that you are willing to mix/match, looks do not seem to be a huge priority (and there is nothing wrong with it to be if that is the preference of the family vs the cook....) when determining your subjective price/pot ratio.

                        With lower priority on looks in mind, you may want to look at industrial/plain (or some consider ugly) commercial cookware.

                        Do you need induction? If not, I might suggest that you consider Sitram Catering for your flat bottomed cookware. They have a 2.5mm non-encapsulated copper disk bottom (an encapsulated bases like Demeyere's is more manufacturing/more expensive, easier to clean, possibly disk extends closer to the very edge of the bottom). You can get a 9.5" saute (3l) for $90 or a 11" saute (4.6l) for $110 out of JB Prince. If you get a straight sided sauce pan, a 7.9 (3.2 liter) is about $67. Hard to beat that price/pot ratio if you are into copper disk bottoms.

                        If you do need induction, Vollrath Intrigue. 6.6mm non-encapsulated aluminum disk bottom (aluminum vs copper, but over twice the thickness to provide even heat distribution). 9.5" (2.8l) is $43 on webrestaurant, 11" (5.7l) is $57. Straight sided sauce pan, 8" (3.1l) about $38.

                        For a curved saucier, or if you use the walls of your skillet/frypan, use the cash you saved on the saute and splurge.

                        Personally, if it was my choice, I'd get either a Sitram or Vollrath saute pan and a Sitram or Vollrath straight sided sauce pan on the larger end of your 2-3qt range, then spend the rest on a nice saucier on the smaller end of your 2-3qt range, (like the Falk try me piece that kaleokahu mentioned, or a Demeyere Apollo/whatnot). For what I cook, it is more frequent that I need more than one saucepan style pot than the instances when I need more than one saute/skillet style pot.

                        With Sitram, you can get an 9.5" saute pan, a 8" sauce pan, a Falk try-me saucier and a good cast-iron skillet or good carbon steel skillet for eggs for under $400 not including shipping/taxes, and under $400 including shipping/taxes with the Vollrath.

                        *Edited to add - The Sitram and Vollrath pieces do NOT come with lids, so if you want lids, factor in that extra cost.

                        1. t
                          TTownFoodie Jul 24, 2012 07:08 AM

                          I've used All Clad for 20+ years and have loved it! I've been in a couple of high end kitchens and that's what they use. I've also been in a Top Chef Master's home kitchen and that's his choice. If you are near a William Sonoma outlet store you can buy All Clad seconds for a discount. I would pay extra for the D5 since it's a little heavier. I've had Ltd. and the outside finish has taken a beating. However it does not bother me that people know I actually use my cookware!

                          15 Replies
                          1. re: TTownFoodie
                            j
                            jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 12:50 PM

                            I am having a tough time accepting the handles by All-Clad. They dig into my handes when gripping them, but I do like the weight.

                            is there a compromise between All-Clad weight and Demeyere handles? I do not have the ability to try Mauviel or Viking in my area.

                            I did look at Vollrath today and I just don't like the overall appearance.

                            1. re: jbrady3324
                              Sid Post Jul 24, 2012 02:39 PM

                              Vollrath, depending on the line is made for commercial use so looks aren't really a concern.

                              Since Cutlery and More is local to you, I would appreciate a report on their handles on the Atlantis line. They look comfy but, there aren't any local to me.

                              1. re: Sid Post
                                j
                                jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 02:48 PM

                                Sur La had the Atlantis line and I found the handles to be very comfortable. By far the best handles there (compared to All-Clad, Mauviel, Sur La house brand). They were thick enough and had a thin to thick design on the underside of the handle to allow the handle to sit comfortable in your palm. The handle also was at the perfect angle (I find the all-clad to be on too much fo an angle upwards)

                                Although the All-Clad is lighter, I found it easier to hold the Atlantis pots than the All-Clad pots. This proved to me how important handle design is. I wish the Atlantis line was slightly lighter for my gf.

                                The Industry5 handles were also great. The textured (blasted) feel is a very nice touch. I have now backed up and I am now considering a mix of Viking/Industry5 and Atlantis pans. The weight fell in between all-clad copper core and stainless lines

                                Have you tried a Viking pan before? I have not made it up to cutlery and more yet. I am very curious about the Viking handle (looks angled with a slight divot) and the overall weight

                                1. re: jbrady3324
                                  Chemicalkinetics Jul 24, 2012 03:03 PM

                                  I believe All Clad has already made its handle more comfortable than before. Granted that people still think it is not very comfortable.. The previous All Clad handle is more painful to hold than the current one. I don't know if you have tried the current ones, or if you tried the older version.

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                    j
                                    jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 03:06 PM

                                    I would assume the ones at the local restaurant supply and sur la table are the newer versions. I like the angle of handles more than before, but still the divot design digs into my palm

                                    I have completely removed all-clad from my choices. I am just looking at Demeyere Atlantis and Industry5, Viking V7 and Mauviel.

                                    I know Demeyere makes the Viking V7 lines.. is Viking a trusted brand? I don't want to shell out for their cookware if their cookware line is not destined to be around for long

                                    1. re: jbrady3324
                                      kaleokahu Jul 24, 2012 04:39 PM

                                      Hi, jbrady:

                                      I think you will find that Viking *is* Demeyere.

                                      There is a longtime poster here, mikie, who invested in the Viking saute, and likes it very much. You might search out the thread.

                                      Aloha,
                                      Kaleo

                                      1. re: kaleokahu
                                        j
                                        jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 04:56 PM

                                        I read that thread which got me back on the Viking Trail :)

                                        I am pretty close to pulling the trigger on 2 Viking or Mauviel pieces (saute, saucier) and the Atlantis saucepan. I love the lack of rivets on the Demeyere lines so I am considering the Demeyere Industry5 line instead of viking as well.

                                        My only fear is Viking line doesn't exit in 10 years and I have an issue. Wayfair.com has most of the Viking line on closeout..

                                        1. re: jbrady3324
                                          kaleokahu Jul 24, 2012 07:35 PM

                                          Hi, jbrady: "My only fear is Viking line doesn't exit in 10 years..."

                                          Unfortunately, there are no assurances anymore with any maunufacturers. Unless you want to shift gears toward very traditional wares, you pays your money and you takes your chances. But IMO, the way the world is going, you'll be lucky to pick any worthwhile line that is fully supported 10 years hence.

                                          Whatever you pick (and you should/must pick, this is life), I suggest you consider that what you pick today might perhaps work better and/or please you *more* 25 years hence than anything that is then current and in vogue. Progress hasn't exactly been especially... progressive... in the last 50 years, and if past is truly prologue, what you like today will likely be found/replaced/extended on the vintage market, and at comparatively reasonable prices.

                                          Have fun, and let us know how you like your picks. I hope you get at least one pan with Demeyere's Silvinox lining.

                                          Aloha,
                                          Kaleo

                                          1. re: kaleokahu
                                            j
                                            jbrady3324 Jul 24, 2012 07:59 PM

                                            All good points. I guess my main worry with Viking is they have been discontinuing some products recently and now their viking v7 line appears to be on closeout (according to wayfair). I would hate to purchase and find out Viking is done making cookware in a month.

                                            Without a doubt I will be purchasing an Atlantis or Industry5 pan.

                                            1. re: jbrady3324
                                              g
                                              GH1618 Jul 24, 2012 09:57 PM

                                              If you like a pan, why would it matter if it is discontinued? A good pan will last a lifetime. They won't come to take it away from you. When I buy something just before it disappears, I always consider my self lucky. I regret the things I didn't get when I had a chance.

                                              1. re: GH1618
                                                j
                                                jbrady3324 Jul 25, 2012 06:57 AM

                                                have you used Viking before? How does the weight compare to others?

                                                1. re: jbrady3324
                                                  g
                                                  GH1618 Jul 25, 2012 09:02 AM

                                                  I've never used it, but I saw some at Tuesday Morning a few months ago, and it seemed pretty sturdy. I don't remember what the handles felt like.

                                      2. re: jbrady3324
                                        Chemicalkinetics Jul 24, 2012 08:17 PM

                                        Yes, my guess as well. I was merely pointing out that the older All Clad was even worse. I really dislike the All Clad handle.

                                        I know you want cookware with great warranty. My suggestion to you (as mentioned in a previous post) is to not put too much weight into these things. Either you believe in the design of the cookware or not. If you are unsure, then don't invest too much in the cookware. Unrealistic expectation can lead to disappointment.

                                        In many ways, you can even think of it like a relationship. You cannot go up to a woman and say "I want to you guranetee to love me for XY numbers of years."

                                        I used to give people this following advice. Ask yourself what is the most you are willing to spend on this type of cookware. Now, spend only half of that (figuratively). I know some people can only spend $500 on a kitchen knife and then they spend exact that. Problem? The person becomes so worry about damaging the knife that they tip-top around it, and avoid using the knife for most applications. Now, instead of the person controlling and wielding the knife, it is the knife which is controlling and wileding the person.

                                        Bottomline. Make sure that you are in control of the cookware (both metally and physically). Get my drift?

                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                          j
                                          jbrady3324 Jul 28, 2012 08:41 AM

                                          I've ordered the following s

                                          Demeyere Apollo 4.2qt Saute pan
                                          Demeyere Atlantis 2.3qt saucepan

                                          Will be picking up a saucier and deeper frypan/skillet (all-clad french skillet or demeyere fry pan)

                                          1. re: jbrady3324
                                            Chemicalkinetics Jul 28, 2012 11:14 AM

                                            Thanks for the update. I would love to hear how you like the two cookware.

                            2. tim irvine Jul 24, 2012 05:15 PM

                              Jbrady's admonition on AC handles is worth heeding. My 14" deBuyer au carbone weighs WAY more than a ten inch AC saucier but is actually just about as easy to move around because I can grab it solidly with two hands. Kaleo has had several posts about "after market" helper handles. The handle is an attribute that gets disproportionately more important as the pans get larger. Also, especially considering the height of the user, the angle is important.

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: tim irvine
                                c
                                Cam14 Jul 27, 2012 08:39 PM

                                Williams Sonoma has an introductory special of $149.00 on an All Clad D5 4 qt Essential pan. It has a slightly wider base than my 10" AC fry pan, and the rounder, deeper sides like a saucier. It's ideal for meats with liquids as you mentioned, pasta sauces, cacciatore, etc. The sides are high, helping to prevent spill overs, stir overs and spattering. It's a heavy pan but has a helper handle and it's a great size. It's an exclusive to Williams Sonoma so far, but usually easy to find a store to give those handles a good try. I find I grab this pan for just about everything lately.

                              2. c
                                ciresica Jul 28, 2012 12:09 PM

                                Just to add to the thread. I couldn't resist a couple of AC copper core items at my local TJMAxx. Got the 4 qt saute (199), the 11 inch fry pan (79) and a 8 qt stock pot (199). No defects I could detect or irreg. These are the ideal sizes of cookware I use most of the time. I always like to try them and return if I dislike something. I am sold on the copper core thing. I can tell it makes a big difference. Boy.. I hate the handles. I HATE the handles. The length or the angle don't bother me but the V shape is a killer to your hand/wrist. The stock pot is fine and I will intend to keep but the rest will go back. I cannot believe a respectable brand is doing such a poor job on handles.
                                JBrady, how do you like the handles on your demeyere pans? I am thinking to go that route for a SS saute pan. Thanks, S.

                                4 Replies
                                1. re: ciresica
                                  j
                                  jbrady3324 Jul 28, 2012 12:45 PM

                                  Ciresica - I have not received my Demeyere pans yet (arrive Tuesday), but I did spend a good amount of time comparing them to All-Clad at Sur La Table last week. The handles on the Demeyere are fantastic. For me, they are at the perfect angle (they angle up and then flatten out) and perfect thickness with rounded sides. There is no V Shape design to the handle thus eliminating digging/pressure in the palm of your hand.

                                  Although they are heavier than All-Clad (comparable to the copper core line), I found them easier to hold onto after lifting. The way the handle angle flattens out really helps with this.

                                  I suggest going over to Sur La Table to try them out. They also have a new Demeyere line there called Industry5. They are 5-ply, thus lighter. They are beautiful and have a sand blasted handle which is very unique.

                                  It is a night and day difference between these two brands.

                                  1. re: jbrady3324
                                    Chemicalkinetics Jul 28, 2012 12:58 PM

                                    <The handles on the Demeyere are fantastic. >

                                    Anything is fantastic compared to All Clad handle. I bet you that holding a turtle tail is more comfortable. Seriously, go grab an All Clad handle, and then grab a $5 ultra cheap pan from HomeGoods and see which one feels better.

                                    <I found them easier to hold onto after lifting. >

                                    Yes, because they don't hurt.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                      j
                                      jbrady3324 Jul 28, 2012 04:57 PM

                                      That is so true. So I have decided that I will be picking up Demeyere industry5 9.5" frypan and the 2qt saucier this week. Very excited

                                      1. re: jbrady3324
                                        Chemicalkinetics Jul 28, 2012 05:00 PM

                                        We would be excited to hear your initial review too. Please feel free to write a new post on your experience. Congratulation.

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