Peet's Major Dickason's 2 lbs for $17.50 @ Costco

[rubadubgdub]

At Costco SF yesterday. In case you've been moaning about the Peet's price increases. I think they're selling this for $15/lb in the stores.

[Robert Lauriston]

I did a side by side comparison of Costco Dickason's and some from the Vine St. store and they look, smell, and taste pretty much the same.

Moot point for me since my local Costco does not carry it and if I'm buying from a Peet's store, I'll pay the extra two bucks a pound for Sulawesi-Kalossi.

[DillMuncher]

Way too much money...I mean...It's better to buy fresh roasted coffee from a local roaster. 1/2LB at a time...fresher, better.

Peet's insists that only doing dark roast lends a greater complexity and quality product. I don't think so. Lighter roasts pack more coffee buzz.. I prefer a nice blend.

[Robert Lauriston]

Coffee from a local roaster isn't necessarily fresher. I don't know how long it's been sitting in the bin. And I think I've tried all my local roasters and didn't like any of them.

If you like lighter roasts, don't buy Peet's.

[DillMuncher]

My point is Peets burns the hell out of the beans and claims they use master roasters who only know how to roast things right.

If you didn't like any of your local roasters they are either doing it wrong or you simply don't care for their particular styles.

You know you can buy your own raw green coffee beans and roast them in a cast iron pan. If you like really burnt Peets flavor take it to the next level :)

[Robert Lauriston]

I prefer dark roast, like they use in Italy and France.

I'm not a fan of light-roast third-wave coffee, which is what almost all the local roasters are doing these days. Sometimes I like it a lot in espresso but for the drip coffee I make at home, the aroma and flavor remind me of what my parents drank when I was a kid: Maxwell House out of a can.

"Do we applaud fair-trade, sustainable farmed, shade-grown joe? Sure. Why not? But when we sit down to a cup of coffee in the morning, we are not particularly interested in the blueberry, caramel, or tomato soup nuances a dedicated roaster can coax out of a bean ... We want coffee that tastes like coffee, and we want it now."—Jonathan Gold, "Ten Worst Food Trends," Sunset, July 2011

[calumin]

If you go to almost any cafe in Italy you will get a better cup of coffee than you will in the US. Most of it is basic proportions -- what logic is there in a venti cappuccino? Third-wave coffee should be more about basic coffeemaking skills rather than trying to pretend that coffee is like wine.

[Robert Lauriston]

The difference between second- and third-wave coffee is beans and roasting. Making the coffee is no different.

[calumin]

what a pity.

[DillMuncher]

Coffee from the local roaster is most certainly fresher than Peets. If you can't get fresh coffee from your local roaster there is something wrong. My local shop roasts on thursdays. The beans sold in the store are no more than 4-5 days old.

True there is no telling how fresh the unroasted coffee beans are. But anything roasted sooner is better. My point is Petes dark roast is junk. They burn the beans. If you want to get Peets flavor coffee for dirt cheap you can simple buy raw green whole coffee beans in a 25LB bag.

Then when you want some burnt beans toast them on a cast iron pan. Your entire house will smell of coffee. It will be an awesome experience. Just turn off the smoke detectors :)

Peets is just coffee.

[Robert Lauriston]

Dark roast isn't burned, it just tastes that way to people who drink light roasts.

My longtime Peet's favorite (half and half 101 and Sulawesi-Kalosi) has gone up to $16 a pound and doesn't taste as good as it used to, so I've been looking for a replacement. I've probably tasted 15 different dark roasts and they're quite different.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/760994

[goodhealthgourmet]

Peet's insists that only doing dark roast lends a greater complexity and quality product.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
they offer a couple of medium roasts now.

http://www.peets.com/shop/coffee_medi...

[zin1953]

Yes, and they're full of it . . .

"The darker the roast" is, in a sense, like "the more oaky the wine." In other words, the more you taste the roast (or oak), and the less you taste of the coffee's (or wine's) origins/terroir/variety.

Now, if someone were to ask me, "What is your favorite of the darker roasts?" I'd probably answer "Peet's," especially on the larger scale of things. But it's been a very, very long time since I have purchased a darker roast. "Full City," maybe "Full City+" is generally the darkest I use.

See:

-- Coffee Roasting Sight Chart: https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/using-sight-determine-degree-roast

-- Use All Five Senses to Determine Degree of Roast: http://www.sweetmarias.com/library/no...

[goodhealthgourmet]

my intention was not to get into a debate/discussion about Peet's philosophy or practices, but merely to point out to DillMuncher that they no longer exclusively offer dark roasts.

[frangelica]

Concord had it today, sell by Oct15. It is for work, so the free loaders are quite happy with anything that does not come from a can or little bags.

Also they had Peets gift cards, 5x 20 for $79.

Yes, I know Peets is not what is used to be but living in food challenged Contra Costa it beats the hell out of Starbucks.

[Melanie Wong]

frangelica, how good to see a post from you again! OT, but what have you been chowing on in Contra Costa?

[Mission]

What coffees make up the Peet's Major Dickason's blend?

Any guesses?

I had a GF back the 80's that worked at Peets and they were never told what beans were used.

[goodhealthgourmet]

five different beans from Pacific & Latin American regions. that's the most detailed info the company gives.

[Robert Lauriston]

Are they still carrying this? None at Richmond today.

[rubadubgdub]

Yep, bought some at SF just last week.

[Robert Lauriston]

What was the sell-by date?

[rubadubgdub]

10/17

[Tripeler]

I think Major Dickason's is one of the best "branded" coffee blends I have had. Even when it is not in optimum condition it is pretty darn good.

[Mission]

I used to think that Peets Major Dickason's was a fine coffee...till I bought some pre packed at a Safeway on a road trip.
It was really funky and average.

I would suspect that the two pound bags at Costco would probably be a little better.

However, I have given up on Peets as a premium coffee choice in the Bay Area.

[Tripeler]

I've purchased Major Dickason's only in Peet's locations and I have always had good luck with it. Still, it is normally too expensive for me so I usually buy coffee elsewhere which is not as good, but around half the price.

[calumin]

when peet's got acquired last month they advertised that their direct-to-store model was the company's biggest source of growth and the main area where they out-compete starbucks.

the reason they can charge less in this model is because they don't have to pay the cost to build out retail stores.

they have reps come into stores 1-3 times per week to pull out old inventory. so there may be some lag in freshness but probably not more than a week in cases where they directly service the store. they also use distributors -- in those cases quality may vary.

[Robert Lauriston]

The bags are dated so you can see how old they are.

[Robert Lauriston]

Wow, that's a good deal, thanks for the tip. $8.75 / lb. at Costco vs. $14.95 at Peet's. If the date on the bag is 90 days from the roasting date it was roasted last week.

[dordogne]

Do the bags indicate roasting date?

[rubadubgdub]

There is a sell by date of Sep 2012. It simply says it's within 90d of roasting. Vacuum bag. I'm using it to make cold process iced coffee in big batches.

[poser]

How about no more than 2 weeks from roasting?Do your self a favor and buy online. You can buy 5 lbs of Redbird shipped free of charge on the day it was roasted for about 51 bucks. freeze in mason jars and you have a coffee bean that makes any Peets seem like crud.

http://redbirdcoffee.com/

[Mission]

mega corporate peets coffee is crap...used to be good...now its crap.

[rubadubgdub]

Say what you will but I've made fine iced coffee with Peet's, yes, recently. Granted I've used stuff from the store, but I'll be curious to see if the prebagged stuff stands up. If so, it will be a great value.

[rubadubgdub]

Reporting back that the prebagged stuff is not as good as the freshly roasted beans you can buy at Peet's but it's good enough. It's working well for iced coffee in a concentrated brew (.5 lb:1.5Q water cold brewed, then liberally doused with milk and a few ice cubes=excellent pick me up).

[Robert Lauriston]

Freshness varies at Peet's. They fill the bins from big sealed bags (20 lbs.?), so less popular varieties at shops that sell less whole beans may sit around for too long.

[TerriL]

Thanks for the update. Are you cold-brewing by mixing the coffee/water, letting it sit for ~12 hours, then double-straining? My ratio to make a little over a liter is 1 1/3 cups coffee to 6 cups water, so not sure how this compares to yours. Also, how coarsely are you grinding? I'll see if it's available at my nearest Costco (Novato) and report back. Thanks again.

[rubadubgdub]

I'm grinding to French press coarseness. It allows me to filter just once through a mesh strainer. When I'm toward the end I just pour carefully and any fine residue remains in the bottle. I just rechecked my measurements and it's .5 lb (I use a scale, but it's probably 1.5-2c?) to 1.25Q (5c) water. I cold brew by letting the sludge sit on the counter covered up to 24h before straining. It does make a concentrate but I prefer this bc it takes less space and I can always dilute with water, ice, or milk.

[TerriL]

They had it at Novato Costco yesterday, $17.50 / 2 lbs.

Rubadubgrub: thanks again for describing your method for making iced coffee. We've now made it several times with great results.

[zin1953]

"Best By" dates are useless (IMHO, of course).

[Robert Lauriston]

Dates can be useful or not depending on various factors, but since Peet's guarantees that the Costco beans are no more than 90 days from roasting, the pull date minus 90 days should be the roast date.

For me, the question to be determined by experiment is whether I notice a difference between beans a week from roasting and two months from roasting.

Vacuum-sealing is in my experience a very effective means of preserving coffee. I used to buy ground Italian coffee in vacuum-sealed bricks and the shelf life was pretty long. Unfortunately they stopped importing the good brands.

[zin1953]

Suffice it to say I disagree, and let's leave it at that. Personally the fact that the beans are "not more than 90 days from roasting" is a signal to stay away . . .

[Robert Lauriston]

Having different taste is not a disagreement. I like full French Roast. Full City+ or anything lighter tastes nasty to me for drip coffee.

[zin1953]

Ah, that explains it -- at least as far as the difference in roast levels is concerned. I never make drip . . .

Then again, my reply about disagreeing with you, Robert, wasn't about roast levels. The reason for my reply -- and the point of my saying, "the fact that the beans are "not more than 90 days from roasting" is a signal to stay away" -- is the "Best By ____" date. It's nonsense, as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,
Jason

[Robert Lauriston]

I don't understand your point. The pull date on the Costco Peet's bag tells me when it was roasted. I can determine experimentally when the beans become noticeably less fresh.

[zin1953]

Robert, I am sorry I appear so dense . . . it seems rather obvious to me, but --

How do you KNOW that (e.g.) that bag of Peet's with a "Best By 12/12/12" date translates to the beans within having been roasted on September 12th? (It may very well be on their website, but I haven't been able to find it.)

How do you know that (e.g.) that bag of Starbuck's or Kirkland's or Don Pablo's or __________ or __________ or . . . means that it was roasted 60/90/120 days before that date?

In other words, Robert: not every roaster uses the same number of days; not every roaster goes "x" number of days out (post-roast) and thinks their coffee is still fine -- I've had people tell me that SIX MONTHS is just fine. Not every individual has access to the internet, and even so, not every roaster puts that information on their website.

So if a bag says, "Roasted On mm/dd/yyyy" the consumer KNOWS something factual and concrete, and there is no guesswork involved about when it was roasted, or how long *this* particular roasting company (as opposed to *that* one) thinks their coffee remains fresh once it is roasted and packaged . . .

And let's not get started on buying coffee out of bulk bins . . .

[Robert Lauriston]

"Each bag is labeled with a 'best by' date that is exactly 90 days past the roast date ..."

http://www.peets.com/company/grocery_...

An expiration date seems like a better way to make sure the bags get off the shelf as per the guarantee than a roasted-on date.

[zin1953]

As I said earlier, Robert, we differ on this. I wouldn't touch a bag that was roasted 10+ days ago and sitting at ambient temperature.

You can repeat your statement of "exactly 90 days" as often as you wish, but that doesn't help the public at large if a) they don't know that, and/or b) they don't have access to the internet and Peet's website, and/or c) they are dealing with any other brand of coffee besides Peet's -- which may use a 45, 60, 90, 120, or 180 day "pull date."

Cheers,
Jason

[Robert Lauriston]

This topic is about Major Dickason's at Costco. You don't need access to the Internet to read "Freshness pledge: Peet's coffee is within 90 days of roasting. Sell by: <date stamp>" on the side of the bag.

I don't pay extra for things I can't taste, even if other people can.

[zin1953]

No one is asking you to satisfy other people's taste buds, Robert, any more than -- I presume -- you aren't asking that of others.

[goodhealthgourmet]

And let's not get started on buying coffee out of bulk bins . . .
~~~~~~~~~
amen to that.

[maria lorraine]

The roast date may not matter since the Costco coffee labeled Peet's Major Dickason tastes markedly different from the coffee labeled Major Dickason purchased in a Peet's store. The Peets store MD tastes robust and dark, the Costco MD has a canned Folger's aftertaste and tastes like robusta (even though it may not be).The two MDs are not the same even though they are labeled the same. I don't know the explanation, but I have a good coffee palate, and the two -- the Costco vs. the Peets -- are very different in flavor.

[Robert Lauriston]

Yeah, I don't taste that. I think it's unlikely that Peet's would be diluting their billion-dollar brand that way. Next time I can find a bag at Costco I'll do a blind comparison.

[rubadubgdub]

I agree from a brand perspective makes no sense for them to have an entirely different product by the same name when they could easily call it by another name and still sell plenty. That said, there is a big price difference per pound, and I'm curious to know how they achieve and pass on the savings.Perception of freshness (it's in a bag, it's a bin, etc.) is a known influencer not always borne out by taste. So I'd love to hear about the side by side taste test results.

[maria lorraine]

Something is very different between the two, no question. I do have a good palate for this.

What I'm guessing, and it's only a guess, is that the roast for Costco is different. or that -- again, not sure -- Costco is roasting their beans for them. Costco's roasters don't get to the temps other retails roasters do -- I know this for a fact, as I've chatted quite a few times with the persons who do the coffee roasting in a few of the Costco stores.

[rubadubgdub]

Hmm, San Francisco has no coffee roasting on site which is where I've bought all my Peet's. Given the volumes that they're doing I don't see how they could keep up nor why Peet's would give them this control. The point of selling your product at Costco is volume. They buy in bulk and expect the producer to give them a serious discount, usually with hardly any margin. This works well when your company goal is growth and, from the recent news of the Peet's buyout, it seems like they're in alignment. My own less than scientific taste memory recalls a difference between the instore vs. Costco beans but then again I bought different beans, used different grinders, etc. But I'm still enjoying the Costco beans for iced coffee, it gives a smooth and concentrated drink.

[rubadubgdub]

I will say that one reason I buy at the Peet's stores is to have them grind the beans. I've found it very hard to replicate their results unless you're willing to spend $$ on your grinder.

[Robert Lauriston]

My $90 burr grinder does a good job for drip coffee. It's apparently not precise enough at fine grinds to please espresso geeks.

[zin1953]

Just out of curiosity, how much is "$$"? I've made great drip coffee with grinders in the "two-digit" price range.

Robert is correct, however, in that a "regular" burr grinder will *generally* not grind fine enough for espresso, but preparations from drip through press pot, siphon through percolators are served perfectly well with most burr grinders. That said, even an inexpensive burr grinder will yield a marked improvement over a whirly-blade "chopper."

But once ground, I've found coffee goes stale rather quickly . . . I've found no way around that.

[maria lorraine]

<<The point of selling your product at Costco is volume. They buy in bulk and expect the producer to give them a serious discount, usually with hardly any margin. This works well when your company goal is growth and, from the recent news of the Peet's buyout, it seems like they're in alignment. >>

I think you're on to something here.

With the need for increased volume, QC has probably gone down.

The increased needs for beans means expanding beyond the usual retail bean sources and controlling the roast on ever greater quantities. With a recent buyout, no doubt the new owners are cutting costs wherever they can. The bean sourcing may have suffered (diminished in quality) and the roasting controls (time and temperature) may not be as tightly monitored. The bean sourcing and roasting parameters for the Peets retail stores may be an entirely different operation from large-volume warehouse stores (often is, in situations like this).

In any case, the Peet's from Peet's is not like the Peet's from Costco.

[Robert Lauriston]

All of Peet's coffee comes from the Alameda roasting facility.

I don't think Peet's quality *control* has gone down. So long as I buy from a high-volume shop where the beans haven't been sitting in the bin for long, I find them very consistent. But to my taste the quality gradually declined in the late 90s while the price went up significantly.

The company hasn't been bought out yet, they're in negotiations with a private equity group, JAB. If deal has is approved by the shareholders there are unlikely to be any changes, which is to say, the company will continue growing rapidly.

[maria lorraine]

Sorry, I disagree, on several fronts, but don't want to argue.

[Robert Lauriston]

Where does Costco roast beans on site? The bags at Richmond and SF are all labeled with the names of the big companies.

Peet's has spent millions building out a distribution system to supply grocery and club stores directly.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/networ...

[zin1953]

Many Costco locations around the country have in-house roasting. I have no idea where they source their greens from.

Having not visited every single Costco location in the San Francisco Bay Area, I cannot be more specific than this.

[Robert Lauriston]

I've never seen in-house roasting at any of the Costcos around here.

[zin1953]

Well, as I said Robert, I haven't checked out every single one. I *do* know, however, that several Costco AND Whole Foods locations do roast coffee on-site . . . perhaps just not here in the Bay Area . . . .

Costco:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/346740#346740
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/canadawest/124632
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/242786#242786
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/242787#242787

Whole Foods:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/346591#346591
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/431209#431209
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espr...

(To mention but a few.)

[Robert Lauriston]

Maybe it's not cost-effective in the Bay Area with all the local roasters competing for their business. The SF Bay private label beans they sell here are from Rogers in Lincoln (exurb of Sacramento).

[SunsetKid]

Not much more expensive at Peet's and the coffee is fresher. World coffee prices are declining and should be reflected at Peet's.

[rubadubgdub]

Hmm, by my math it's 71% more per lb at Peet's . . .

[maria lorraine]

I've bought this twice now at Costco. Never again. Barely drinkable.

Funky, cheap coffee taste.

Not at all like the Major Dickason purchased from the store.

[Robert Lauriston]

Tasted the same to me. You bought the Peet's-labeled bag?

[maria lorraine]

Yes. Had that cheap Robusta bean flavor, even though in the past Peet's only used Arabica. It was no bargain.

The coffee trade mags say more and more arabica-only companies have started adding robusta to blends, and I wonder if Peets has as well.

[Robert Lauriston]

"Peet's coffees are made purely of arabica beans."

http://www.peets.com/learn/coffee_gro...&