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Beston 220 grit stone - my first experience

Chemicalkinetics May 14, 2012 08:01 PM

Sometime ago, I was looking for a low grit stone for reprofiling kitchen knives. The DMT Extra-Extra Coarse is very effective at removing metal, but the resulting edge is often prone to chipping (not sure if it is just coincidence). I heard good things about the Beston 500 grit stone, but I wanted something different.

I bought a Beston 220 grit stone along with my Moritaka honesuki. My friend gave me two knives for sharpening: a Henckels Professional “S” 10-inch chef knife and a no name Santoku made in China. Both knives are in relatively decent shape, except for a few dings (see Photo 4).

The Beston 220 stone was able to grind out the ding areas in a relatively painless and quick manner (see Photo 5). I then moved to the Bester 1000, and Naniwa Super 2000. After I finished sharpening the Henckels, then I realized the edge is slightly receded behind the bolster, so I had to grind out some of the bolster with the Beston 220 stone, and it worked fine for that as well.
Here are my few opinions about the Beston 220 stone:

1) Effective
2) Reasonably priced
3) Very porous and therefore very short soak time (see Photo 1 and 2)
4) Dish very slow
5) No need to constantly apply water to the stone as the water just drips right through it.
6) No feedback, but I guess this is normal for a low grit stone.
7) I cannot really say how it compares to other low grit waterstones since I have not used another one.

I also have an opinion of the 10 inch Henckels:

a) This is one heavy knife. It weights 303 g, which is actually less than my Dexter Chinese cleaver (340 g), but the Henckels feels heavier, probably because the length gives it a greater torque. In comparison, the Tojiro DP 210 mm knife is 194 g.

P.S.: My friend is currently using my CarboNext Santoku and Tojiro DP Gyuto while I was sharpening hers. She is extremely pleased with these replacement knives.

 
 
 
 
 
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  1. TeRReT RE: Chemicalkinetics May 14, 2012 10:49 PM

    Welcome to my nightmare. I really did enjoy my Henckels, but sharpening with the bolster makes me want to hurt things. The professional S santoku was nice as it had no bolster.

    The stone sounds good, I will try my king 220 in a couple days on my nakiri and let you know how that goes.

    6 Replies
    1. re: TeRReT
      TeRReT RE: TeRReT May 15, 2012 01:02 AM

      right, well it was raining and I was bored so I tried it now.

      First, my 220 is not a king, its a brandless piece of rock. It seems good, it only cost me $5 and I haven't anything to compare it to but it didn't need to be soaked long and it was the stone the guy who made the knife suggested for that grit, so who am I to argue.

      I also tried my 1000 king which cost me $12.

      Both stones seemed to operate as expected, but my poor $9 nakiri is very flawed on the grind.
      I haven't had much opportunity to really use it yet, but have used it some and it seemed ok. I checked the edge before sharpening and there is definitely light coming from underneath, slightly towards the heel from the centre. I will have to try to correct it eventually as outlined in that earlier post on such a topic. I didn't bother trying to correct this time, but did what I could. What was straight sharpened easy enough and got decently sharp.

      Will play with the stones with a different knife later, and will attempt to correct the edge eventually on the nakiri.

      1. re: TeRReT
        Chemicalkinetics RE: TeRReT May 15, 2012 08:34 AM

        <I really did enjoy my Henckels, but sharpening with the bolster makes me want to hurt things>

        TeRReT,

        Yeah, at this day and age, you think a full blown bolster concept would have phrased out. I understand a full bolster is good for marketing as it suggests the knife is a forged knife, and forged knives used to be higher quality of stamped knives. I marginally also understand that a bolster provides balance, but I think there are plenty other ways to achieve the same. By far the worst reason I have heard is that a bolster protects your hand.

        Yeah, I remember that you got two stones (220 grit and 1000 grit) and one knife for very reasonable prices. I told you that I also saw some Naniwa 1000 grit stones for $5 at H-Mart. They were gone the next time I visited the store.

        A $9 rustic nakiri often has some flaws here and there, especially if it claims to be hand-finished, which yours is. Let's face it. A hand finished knife tends to have more flaws than a machine finished knife. Still, for dollar to dollar, your $9 nakiri probably beats most other $9 knives we find here in the US.

        You don't have to correct your nakiri right away, but you don't want to got too long without the correction. Normal sharpening can sometime worsen the already flaw grind.

        http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/att...

        Normal sharpening tends to "hit" the already overgound low points more, so make them even more overground. Of course, this really depends the original reason for your low uneven edge. It could be something else.

        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
          TeRReT RE: Chemicalkinetics May 15, 2012 08:38 AM

          yeah, I'll try to fix it next time definitely, if it doesn't work out its not the end of the world. I bought a $9 nakiri to see if I like the shape, I intend to replace it in the next 6 months or so.

          1. re: TeRReT
            Chemicalkinetics RE: TeRReT May 15, 2012 08:46 AM

            <I bought a $9 nakiri to see if I like the shape>

            Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it -- yes I remember. You bought it because it is a Nakiri and you want to test the knife style. :)

            Now, I remember.

      2. re: TeRReT
        TraderJoe RE: TeRReT May 15, 2012 08:55 AM

        I really did enjoy my Henckels, but sharpening with the bolster makes me want to hurt things.
        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Sharpening a knife with a bolster is not that big of a deal. German knives aren't the only knives with a bolster.
        I do prefer a bolster on a boning knife but that's just personal preference.

        1. re: TraderJoe
          Chemicalkinetics RE: TraderJoe May 15, 2012 09:03 AM

          <I do prefer a bolster on a boning knife but that's just personal preference.>

          I do prefer a heel or some sort on a boning knife to prevent my hand from slipping forward, but I don't need a bolster. For example, something like this:

          http://www.dexter1818.com/Item_Detail...

      3. cowboyardee RE: Chemicalkinetics May 15, 2012 03:53 PM

        Thanks for the review chem. Couple quick questions for you:
        - What were you using as a coarse[st] stone before the bester 220?
        - How does the bester 220 compare?
        - Did you try soaking it for a while to compare? I ask because the bester 500 is weird with respect to soaking. You can soak it for just a couple minutes and it seems ready. And sure enough you can use it like that. But I've found that it just grinds much more aggressively when it's soaked upwards of half an hour, even though the stone outwardly seems ready after a brief soak. Of course, I'm not sure that the 220 has the same qualities as the 500 - very coarse stones are often different from the rest of a maker's lineup.

        Interesting side story - I've had three different people bring me henckels international chef knives to sharpen recently (all 8 inch, made in Spain, full bolster). Two of the three wouldn't sharpen worth a damn, while the third took a perfectly serviceable edge. All sharpened to roughly the same angle, all on the same equipment. I figure it must be inconsistency in the heat treatment, but not positive. Also possible they've switched steels a couple times.

        3 Replies
        1. re: cowboyardee
          Chemicalkinetics RE: cowboyardee May 15, 2012 06:46 PM

          <What were you using as a coarse[st] stone before the bester 220>

          Do you mean before I have the Bester 220 or do you mean what stone do I use to setup/transition to Bester 220?

          Before I acquired Bester 220, I was using DMT XXC as my coarsest stone, but for some reasons the resulting edges were often prone to chipping -- could be a coincidence. After I acquired Bester 220, I am using it as my reprofiling stone.

          <Did you try soaking it for a while to compare?>

          I soaked it for 15 minutes or so, and did not try longer. Your observation of the Bester 500 is indeed interesting.

          <Two of the three wouldn't sharpen worth a damn, while the third took a perfectly serviceable edge. >

          That is indeed a very interesting story. I am guessing the steel got changed.

          P.S.: When I very first started with knife sharpening, I thought the highest grit stone is the most important factor. Now, I believe the lower grit stones are what matter the most.

          1. re: cowboyardee
            k
            knifesavers RE: cowboyardee May 15, 2012 08:34 PM

            Yep those Internationals can be a crap shoot. The last few bunches that have come though have been decent but I have seen those frustrating ones too.

            Jim

            1. re: knifesavers
              Chemicalkinetics RE: knifesavers May 15, 2012 08:38 PM

              Kinda of like buying a Moritaka knife then? (also a shot at the lottery)

          2. Chemicalkinetics RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 07:59 AM

            I am not going to write a separate review, but I just want to say a few things about the 10" Henckels Professional S Chef's knife which I have been using for 3-4 cooking sessions.

            1) The edge stayed relatively sharp
            2) It feels heavy and my hand get tired after using it awhile. Yestersday, I prep for an hour, but my right hand was tired after about 20-30 minutes. Nevertheless, my hand may have got tried not because of the weight, but because of the wedging (see point #3)
            3) Wedging has been an issue. I was cutting the zucchini (soft) and that was fine. However, there was a lot of resistance when I started to cut and julienne the carrots. I actually had to push down hard onto the knife and often put my other hand on the knife spine to cut. Mind you that the knife has already been sharpened and has no trouble push cutting paper or shaving arm hair. Now, I can totally understand why this knife is more suitable for rock chopping than the slide push cutting.

            30 Replies
            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
              cowboyardee RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 10:31 AM

              Thanks for the review chem.

              A couple questions (again):
              - Is the knife marked with the kind of steel it uses?
              - What kind of edge did you put on the henckels? In other words, did you follow the factory geometry? I've been curious for a while about taking a thicker, German style knife and applying an asymmetrical bevel and then convexing the front side of it a bit and seeing if I could give it both slightly less cutting resistance as well as better food release without experiencing too much steering. Of course, German knives aren't really designed with this in mind, but I'm wondering how much of this you can control just by messing around with the bevels and area right behind the edge on a thicker knife. Haven't bothered to try though, yet.

              1. re: cowboyardee
                Eiron RE: cowboyardee May 17, 2012 11:44 AM

                "I've been curious for a while about taking a thicker, German style knife and ..."

                Interesting that you should mention this. I was thinking along the same lines. :-) I just picked up a 10" Mercer Genesis chef knife that I'm going to reprofile into the shape of an 8" Shun chef knife. My suspicion is that the steel won't accommodate too much thinning, but I guess I'll find out.

                1. re: Eiron
                  cowboyardee RE: Eiron May 17, 2012 01:08 PM

                  "My suspicion is that the steel won't accommodate too much thinning, but I guess I'll find out."
                  _______
                  I don't think it would support a 20 degree included edge like some of the J knives we mess around with, but I fidgure you can still mess around plenty with the secondary bevels, asymmetry, and thinning behind the edge as long as you avoid using it as a meat cleaver.

                  OTOH, I'm less certain that you wouldn't get more significant steering issues, since the back side of the knife isn't ground like knives that normally have asymmetrical edges.

                2. re: cowboyardee
                  Chemicalkinetics RE: cowboyardee May 17, 2012 11:49 AM

                  I didn't notice any steel information on the blade, but I can double check later.

                  I put a 20 degree symmetric edge on both sides, and then top it with a very minor 25 degree microbevel.

                  <Of course, German knives aren't really designed with this in mind>

                  I was just thinking why rock chop is more suitable with knives like these. I don't think I can mess around this knife too much since it does not belong to me.

                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                    cowboyardee RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 01:12 PM

                    "I don't think I can mess around this knife too much since it does not belong to me."
                    _________
                    That's my problem too. Aside from my forschner (which is pretty thin behind its edge), I've given away all of my old German style knives at this point, so I don't have any to really experiment on. I could mess around with my Sabatier or that massive old Dexter carbon knife, though both have pretty flat face grinds. I figure maybe I'll find a used German chef knife cheap and give it a try, but no rush.

                    1. re: cowboyardee
                      k
                      knifesavers RE: cowboyardee May 17, 2012 06:55 PM

                      I have an F Dick Superior 8" chef I found in a thrift store with a big chip/dent and had to rip the edge down by about 1/16"+.

                      Needs quite a bit of thinning behind the edge.Will see if I get to that and can get pics before and after. No pics of the initial damaged state though.

                      1. re: knifesavers
                        Chemicalkinetics RE: knifesavers May 17, 2012 07:20 PM

                        I would love to see your update. How are you doing the thinning and all? With a machine (grinding wheel, sand belt) or by hand with a stone?

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                          k
                          knifesavers RE: Chemicalkinetics May 18, 2012 02:15 PM

                          Haven't decided yet. I have 25 reconditioned thrift store knives to get ready for the farmers market tomorrow and may not get around to thinning this out.

                          I'll see how the cutting edge turns out then see. It would be a good test of my new Gesshin 400 grit.

                          Jim
                          Jim

                          1. re: knifesavers
                            Chemicalkinetics RE: knifesavers May 18, 2012 02:34 PM

                            <I have 25 reconditioned thrift store knives to get ready for the farmers market tomorrow>

                            Are you selling reconditioned knives? Or are you a knife sharpener who are returning the knives back to the owner for tomorrow?

                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                              k
                              knifesavers RE: Chemicalkinetics May 18, 2012 02:46 PM

                              Both. I gather beat to snot blades, fix, and resell them and sharpen people's stuff on the spot.

                              Dealing with the beat to snot ones makes the "just dull" ones a cakewalk.

                              Jim

                              1. re: knifesavers
                                Chemicalkinetics RE: knifesavers May 18, 2012 02:55 PM

                                Oh that's right. Now, my memory is coming back to me. I remember saying that your login name "knifesavers" makes sense for what you do. Thanks for your advises here on this board. Talk to you soon, Jim.

                3. re: Chemicalkinetics
                  TraderJoe RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 12:14 PM

                  Yestersday, I prep for an hour, but my right hand was tired after about 20-30 minutes.
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Lift some weights buttercup! LOL Just kidding but your not really trying to compare a 10" German knife to a 210mm J-knife are you?
                  That's like acting surprised because a splitting maul is heavier than a finish hammer. The 10" German knife has a place but it's not in detail work. Try cutting hard squash rind with the Moritaka and let us know what happens to your edge. ;)
                  Tools all need to be matched to the job to be effective.
                  Glad to hear the 220 is working out for you.

                  1. re: TraderJoe
                    Chemicalkinetics RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 12:48 PM

                    Buttercup? Isn't it Butterfingers? (see quote #6 from
                    http://www.galactica.com/main/content...

                    )

                    <That's like acting surprised because a splitting maul is heavier than a finish hammer.>

                    It isn't the fact that it is heavier. My Dexter Russell Chinese cleaver actually weighs more: 340 g vs 303 g, but the the Henckels tired me out faster. I suspect that I was not using it correctly. No, I am not blaming the knife. I think I was using push cutting for a good amount of time. Maybe I should have used rock chopping all along.

                    <Try cutting hard squash rind with the Moritaka and let us know what happens to your edge. ;) >

                    I don't know about Moritaka since I only have a Moritaka honesuki. However, I have used a very thin blade CCK (Chan Chi Kee) Chinese slicer on hard squash like butternut squash and it seems to be just fine. I believe cowboyardee have also used his CCK (a difference version) on hard squash as well.

                    <Tools all need to be matched to the job to be effective.>

                    Agree.

                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                      TraderJoe RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 01:10 PM

                      I think ya just caught me a little flat footed comparing the weight of a 10" German knife to a 210mm Tojiro. I think if you cut hard squash fo 30 minutes with the Tojiro you would find it quite tiring and it might not be kind to the edge where the 10" German knife would handle it with ease.

                      1. re: TraderJoe
                        Chemicalkinetics RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 01:24 PM

                        I cannot say for sure about Tojiro, but I know my CCK works pretty well for winter squash. It cut through winter squash with little resistance due to the thin blade -- no wedging. Moreover, the CCK has a very wide (or tall) blade. So one can tap the knife spine all the way through the hard winter squash.

                    2. re: TraderJoe
                      cowboyardee RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 01:17 PM

                      Try cutting hard squash rind with the Moritaka and let us know what happens to your edge. ;)
                      ________
                      Funny you should mention - I mainly use an extremely thin, acutely angled knife for winter squash (my yusuke gyuto). Winter squash is actually easier on the edge of that knife than it is on thicker knives because most of the dulling when cutting winter squash seems to come from impact with the cutting board when you're cutting with a lot of force. A thinner knife glides through squash easily enough that I maintain control of the blade and don't wind up whacking the knife or putting a lot of force into the stroke. The problem with cutting winter squash isn't the hardness of its skin - it's how much the knife tends to wedge.

                      1. re: TraderJoe
                        petek RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 02:55 PM

                        <Lift some weights buttercup!>
                        Ha!!! :-D

                        1. re: TraderJoe
                          petek RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 03:28 PM

                          <Try cutting hard squash rind with the Moritaka and let us know what happens to your edge.>

                          My Moritaka had no problem with cutting hard squash and keeping a great edge.
                          It's certainly no laser,but like what CBAD said the problem is more to do with constant board contact and not what you're cutting..

                          1. re: petek
                            Chemicalkinetics RE: petek May 17, 2012 03:33 PM

                            <It's certainly no laser,but like what CBAD said the problem is more to do with constant board contact and not what you're cutting..>

                            That is typically true, considering the fact that the cuttiing boards are the denser or the harder object which your knives are hitting -- which it is suppose to be. We certainly do not want a cutting board which we can cut through like lettuces and potatoes.

                            1. re: petek
                              TraderJoe RE: petek May 17, 2012 05:16 PM

                              the problem is more to do with constant board contact and not what you're cutting..
                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Spend 30 minutes splitting and peeling blue hubbards with a 10" German knife and then a thin 210mm gyuto when your done let me know if you still think that's true. ;)
                              Hard squash can be difficult to begin with and any side force or twist that gets put on a thin hard blade like a J-knife can to be very hard on the edge. Chips!
                              Clearly if you whack the board with the blade that's going to be problematic as well but that's user error not a caveat of the knife. I mean if we use stone or glass boards that would only be amplified as well. No surprise there.
                              Even if the thicker knife wedges a bit it still has the benefit of weight. That's not always a bad thing and some J-knives wedge as well.
                              In either event my only point was that each knife has certain tasks where it works best and I just don't see much of a comparison between these two knives. (no offense to Chem)
                              A 10" heavy Wustie was my go to for years. Talking bad about her is like speaking poorly of an old lover....even if she was slow.....and thick.

                              1. re: TraderJoe
                                Chemicalkinetics RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 05:26 PM

                                <Spend 30 minutes splitting and peeling blue hubbards with a 10" German knife>

                                I can't say I have done that.

                                <Even if the thicker knife wedges a bit it still has the benefit of weight>

                                This is the part which is true, but not always true. The heavier blade can be useful, but usually comes in the form of momentum, not just pure mass. Most people here know I love my CCK thin blade Chinese slicer, but one thing I do miss from the Dexter-Russell thicker blade cleaver is that the Dexter provides a very nice momentum for smashing garlic and ginger...etc. I cannot do that with the lighter CCK knife.

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRrsif...

                                So I do understand that a knife with a good amount of mass can be beneficial for the sake of momentum. However, momentum only means something if it has speed to it: Momentum = Mass X Velocity. or p = m X v

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

                                Once a knife got stuck or wedged in good (velocity = zero), then the benefit of a heavy blade is gone. In fact, now the mass acts against you for the reason of Newton's First Law. It can be phrased: "An object at rest stays at rest ...."

                                http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class...

                                <no offense to Chem>

                                No offense is taken. You are a cool guy, and I know whatever difference we have or may have, they are rooted in good reasons and respect.

                                <A 10" heavy Wustie was my go to for years>

                                I think you will find that (for whatever reasons they may be) people here like Wusthof more than Henckels.

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                  TraderJoe RE: Chemicalkinetics May 18, 2012 05:14 AM

                                  Once a knife got stuck or wedged in good (velocity = zero), then the benefit of a heavy blade is gone.
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  Trure dat.
                                  Now what happens when you get a thin gyuto stuck? You have less mass and even a light object at rest tends to stay at rest, Unless Newton was biased towards lasers. (har)
                                  Many tend to twist the blade to get it free. Not good. Especially on a thin hard knife.
                                  You won't even get the blade across a large squash with a 210mm gyuto so if your really trying to suggest a 210mm Gyuto has the edge on a 10" Wustie for this task..... well ok but that's certainly not my experience.
                                  Again there really is no comparison between those two knives and trying to do detail work with a 10" Wustie is just not it's forte any more than that little gyuto is suited to heavy grunt work like breaking down large hard squash.
                                  Each knife has it's strengths and weakness. We can certainly exploit those with extremes in either direction if we try.
                                  I guess that's just my long winded way of saying we each have to pick the tool we feel is right for the job. ;)

                                  1. re: TraderJoe
                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: TraderJoe May 18, 2012 05:29 AM

                                    <Now what happens when you get a thin gyuto stuck? You have less mass and even a light object at rest tends to stay at rest>

                                    It is easier to move a lighter mass from rest than to move a heavier mass from rest. Think about moving a bicycle at rest vs moving a truck at rest. So I guess you can say Newton First Law is slightly biased toward lasers. :P

                                    <Many tend to twist the blade to get it free>

                                    Good point.

                                    <I guess that's just my long winded way of saying we each have to pick the tool we feel is right for the job.>

                                    Bravo. Agree.

                                2. re: TraderJoe
                                  petek RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 05:32 PM

                                  <Spend 30 minutes splitting and peeling blue hubbards with a 10" German knife and then a thin 210mm gyuto when your done let me know if you still think that's true. ;)>

                                  been there,done that, got the T-shirt... :-D.I'll take a thinner knife any day.
                                  I peel squash with a veggie peeler anyway.

                                  1. re: petek
                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: petek May 17, 2012 05:35 PM

                                    What do you mean by "T-shirt"? You won a competition?

                                    I will let you two talk. I am no professional cook like you or TeRReT....etc.

                                    P.S.: I am correct that people get a bit emotional about knives. Still, I was surprised about the "cleaning Teflon cookware". That was funny.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                      petek RE: Chemicalkinetics May 17, 2012 05:45 PM

                                      It's just a saying..
                                      I don't get personal about knives,emotional,maybe but never personal.
                                      We all like to use what we all like to use.There really is no right or wrong,just personal preference.The right tool for the right job.

                                      1. re: petek
                                        Chemicalkinetics RE: petek May 17, 2012 06:06 PM

                                        <There really is no right or wrong,just personal preference.>

                                        Bravo. Well said.

                                    2. re: petek
                                      TraderJoe RE: petek May 18, 2012 04:39 AM

                                      I peel squash with a veggie peeler anyway

                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                      If you can peel Blue hubbards with a peeler your a bad whamer jammer.I've got a shot here some place with several tons setting on the dock. Peelers every where cringe. ;-D

                                    3. re: TraderJoe
                                      cowboyardee RE: TraderJoe May 17, 2012 06:14 PM

                                      "Clearly if you whack the board with the blade that's going to be problematic as well but that's user error not a caveat of the knife."
                                      ______
                                      The whacking I referred to earlier was actually related to the knife itself. When you split a winter squash with a thick knife, the wedging factor makes apply more force, so when the squash splits you are more likely to hit the board hard at the end of the stroke. Of course there are ways around this, but i find it easier and more graceful to just cut the squash with a super thin knife that cuts it without a whole lot of force. It actually might be easier to cut a winter squash with a very thick and heavy knife than a moderately thick and heavy one (they both wedge badly, but a thicker knife can split it kind of like firewood and the extra weight can help a little bit), but a super thin knife reliably works the easiest. You're right that twisting the knife is potentially a problem, so I guess I wouldn't recommend it for someone who's got a sloppy stroke. Never chipped my blade on a winter squash though.

                                      Now, celery root, OTOH - never found a great way to cut through that easily.

                                      1. re: cowboyardee
                                        TraderJoe RE: cowboyardee May 18, 2012 05:18 AM

                                        so when the squash splits you are more likely to hit the board hard at the end of the stroke
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                        I can see that happening especially with less experienced users and with smaller squash.
                                        I had a crate of Calabaza last year that would have given celery root a run for it's money on the hardness scale.

                              2. c
                                Cynic2701 RE: Chemicalkinetics Feb 14, 2014 08:04 AM

                                Hi Chemicalkinetics,

                                I know that this is an older thread, but I was curious about your thoughts on the Bester/Beston 220 now.

                                I'm currently in need - or rather want - of a very coarse waterstone. I've found, as you mentioned, that using diamonds inexplicably causes microchips on the thin hard edges that J-knives typically have. Instead of using an Atoma 140 or a DMT XXC as I have been, I was wondering if you would recommend the Bester/Beston 220 to fulfill this role.

                                In my current waterstone setup I run a Chosera 400 up through several Shaptons (1k, 2k, 4k) and end on a Naniwa Jyunpaku 8K with strops afterwards. Do you think the jump to a Chosera 400 is reasonable from a Bester/Beston 220?

                                3 Replies
                                1. re: Cynic2701
                                  Chemicalkinetics RE: Cynic2701 Feb 14, 2014 08:14 AM

                                  Hi Cynic,

                                  I have used the Bester/Benton 220 a couple more time for reprofile. Usually, I don't need to go there even for normal knives, but it is useful for thicker Japanese knives like usuba (which have a lot more metal).

                                  In my limited experience (2-3 times since then), the Bester/Benton 220 is a good stone for reprofiling. it does not seem to introduce the chipping problem as the DMT XXC stone (I have not used Atoma). On the other hand, I feel the DMT XXC cut a bit faster than the Benton 220 stone.

                                  Yes, I think a 400 is a good jump. I don't even have a 440, so I had to jump from the Benton 220 to a Bester 1000 which is doable.

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                    c
                                    Cynic2701 RE: Chemicalkinetics Feb 14, 2014 08:22 AM

                                    Thanks for your insights on the stone.

                                    Apparently word has gotten out among my friends and family that I am their go to knife sharpener. I'm getting a lot of knives that need reprofiling, and wanted to move to a coarser stone to speed up the process.

                                    1. re: Cynic2701
                                      Chemicalkinetics RE: Cynic2701 Feb 14, 2014 08:33 AM

                                      < I'm getting a lot of knives that need reprofiling>

                                      :D That makes perfect sense then. I am looking forward for your feedbacks too for this stone.

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