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Did this tin-lined copper pan get too hot?

In one picture you can see ripply tin, the other one shows little broken bubbles. I'm afraid to wash it harder, or use it again. Not sure of the brand, it's 10' across, has an iron handle almost 9' long.

 
 
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  1. Hi, blue room:

    I think it did get too hot, at some time or place. Did it come to you in this condition, or did this happen on your watch?

    I am not seeing exposed copper in or near the pan's bottom, so I see no immediate cause for worry over using it. The rule of thumb is that you're OK with a total of as much as a 25-cent-piece area of exposed copper on the cooking surface.

    That surface also looks very clean and bright already to me. If you're new to copper, you need to understand that these tinned pans often look dark, uneven and even dingy inside, and that is completely normal thing to happen with use. If you must have bright, shiny interiors, cooking in tinned copper is not for you. I would definitely not clean it more.

    Have fun and cook away.

    Aloha,
    Kaleo

    18 Replies
    1. re: kaleokahu

      Phew! Thanks so much -- I bought this maybe 1 1/2 years ago, online from ? -- a place like metrokitchen or something -- expensive but on sale, it's very heavy, heavier than my 12" (copperless) All-Clad. I used it ONCE -- little zucchini rounds dipped in egg and cheesy crumbs. Aaagh -- the tin got melty! I put the pan away until now, mad at myself (it was about $180 I think) But hooray, it's *supposed* to look browned and messy! And no, there is no copper showing. I know now to use a lot less heat than I usually would, and if I ever really ruin it, it can be retinned. It has no name on it, no logo. Would that be normal for a good brand? I made it a point at the time to buy the one with the thickest tin.
      I feel so much better now!
      ETA I'm pretty sure now it is Mauviel heritage -- something like that.

      1. re: blue room

        If it was Mauviel it would be marked. That doesn't mean it's not a good pan.

        TJ

        1. re: TraderJoe

          Are you sure about this? I have seen pans that I am certain were Mauviel that had nothing more than a "Made in France" mark on the side.

          This aside, as long as the pan is copper of an appropriate thickness, I don't think it matters at all whose mark is on the side of the pan.

          1. re: jljohn

            All of the Mauviel branded copper ware I have seen has been marked as such, even the older Mauviel. If this item was just bought it a few years ago and it was new stock M-Heritage it would be marked Mauviel.
            Mauviel has made copper cookware that was just stamped "Made in France" for different companies like WS and E. Dehillerin at times but those lines were made to different specifications (thinner, not tin lined etc).
            I have some from WS and even though it's not as thick as M-Heritage it's a very nice product.
            There seems to be a bit of blistering in the pan as well as a large run in the tin. If there's any exposed Copper just send it out for re-tinning if you can find some one to do it at a fair price and then take it easy on the direct heat.
            Either way if it's of good quality branding is not going to change the performance although the quality of the tin lining may.

            TJ

            1. re: TraderJoe

              "Mauviel has made copper cookware that was just stamped "Made in France" for different companies like WS and E. Dehillerin at times but those lines were made to different specifications (thinner, not tin lined etc)."

              I think the situation is not as simple or straight forward as this. For example, I happened to be in a Williams Sonoma last night, and the small copper section, all Mauviel made, had pots and pans that carried 3 different marks: "Williams Sonoma France", "Mauviel Made in France", and simple "made in France." One of the pans marked only "Made in France" was a 3mm or 1/8" thick, tin-lined, 11" Rondeau. The more I look for copper and look at copper pans, I come to the conclusion that its very hard to say anything absolute about Mauviel and their manufacturing practices. There are some very strange examples of their work out there.

              1. re: jljohn

                Pots of recent manufacture made under the Mauviel brand name are marked Mauviel.
                Just because Mauviel makes them for other companies does not make them a "mauviel" brand. Nothing really strange about it they just make pots for different stores and different runs may have slightly different wording (and specs) but they are always marked "France" in some form. This may get a bit confusing with stores like WS that sells a "house brand" but advertises it as made by Mauviel.
                The 3mm Tin lined rondeau that WS used to carry is Mauviel and if you look for the mark it will be there (if you can find one). The Hammered copper rondeau at WS is a store brand made by Mauviel, thus no Mauviel stamp. You can also see the difference in price. The WS hammered rondeau is larger, tin lined and $50 less than the Mauviel smooth copper 2.5mm SS version. AFAIK Mauviel has discontinued the vast majority of it's tin lined products. I can no longer find the 3mm tin lined rondeau in the Mauviel catalog.
                If you look up the rondeau on line WS sells BKF with the pots. ;)

                TJ

                1. re: TraderJoe

                  Hi, TJ: "Just because Mauviel makes them for other companies does not make them a "mauviel" brand."

                  Well, it still makes them Mauviel, just as Vikings are Demeyers--just not branded as such.

                  Since you invoke BKF yet again, I thought you might give Vin Calcutt, the world's preeminent authority on copperware, more credence than you do me. He offers on cleaning and polishing:

                  "Abrasives must be used with very great care if a final mirror-finish polish is eventually needed. The coarse[r] the abrasive used, the more effort will be needed to restore a polished finish... Proprietary cleaners branded for cleaning up the outside of copper cookware normally have to contain powdered abrasive to make them effective. They will help get rid of flame blackening quickly but the abrasive is too coarse to lead to a good polish."

                  "Below is a view from underneath a penholder base that has been polished away completely on the edges and corners. Be suitably warned! Use only a very gentle polish - rarely!!"

                  The full segment can be found here: http://www.oldcopper.org/surface_fini...

                  I have no problem with anyone knocking herself out scouring her copper pans' SS *interiors* with BKF, so I can understand W-S pushing it. Their cost is also probably <$2/can, compared with $20 for Mauviel's Copperbrill. Please don't assume W-S, in these Pottery Barn/megacorp days, knows or cares about anything but its bottom line.

                  Aloha,
                  Kaleo

                  1. re: kaleokahu

                    Well, it still makes them Mauviel

                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    uhhmmm no it makes them WS or what ever other brand they are made for. They are not Mauviel pots because they are not made to the same specifications. No company is going to compete with itself.

                    I like my WS copper by Mauviel but just because it was made by Mauviel doesn't make it that brand. If you feel differently that's just peachy.

                    I think we all understand you don't like BKF but hey whateva.

                    It's worked for me and millions of others and it's actually recommended for cleaning copper! ;)

                    TJ

                    1. re: TraderJoe

                      Hi, TJ: "[I]t makes them WS or what ever other brand they are made for."

                      My neighbor is proud of his Acura, but it's still a Honda. You must be more like him than me.

                      Frankly, the best copper W-S ever imported (now long discontinued by them) was standard extra fort Mauviel that was simply struck with a W-S mark instead of Mauviel. Just like Dehillerin and Lamalle did then and Dehillerin does still.

                      LOL, you keep putting words in my mouth--I *like* BKF, but prefer something less abrasive for my copper. You must think Calcutt is similarly uninformed as to the best care for copperware, so I'll stop trying to educate you.

                      Aloha,
                      Kaleo

                    2. re: kaleokahu

                      I have no problem with anyone knocking herself out scouring her copper pans' SS *interiors* with BKF
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Gosh that's good to know. Falk whole heartily recommends BKF for copper...inside and out. ;)

                      http://www.copperpans.com/maintenance...

                      1. re: TraderJoe

                        You have polished, tin-lined Falk?

                    3. re: TraderJoe

                      "Pots of recent manufacture made under the Mauviel brand name are marked Mauviel."

                      Not to stir the pot any more, because this is already getting fun, but to clarify: Are you saying anything more here than that all pans that are marked and sold as Mauviel will carry the Mauviel mark? If so, I would love to comprehend it. If not, isn't this a mere truism?

                      It is certainly not the case that all copper advertised and sold today as Mauviel is marked "Mauviel." For example--( http://www.williams-sonoma.com/search... ) Every piece of copper (not Ruffoni) that WS sells is advertised and listed as Mauviel copper, but most of it will be marked "Williams Sonoma France." Do you see my confusion regarding your statement?

                      Finally, regarding Mauviel's manufacture of tin-lined copper, my understanding is that they continue to make and sell tin-lined copper just as they always did. Americans just tend to prefer stainless-lined, so they don't market the tin stuff here. But take a look at the tin-lined Mauviel section at www.buycoppercookware.com and you'll see how much they are still making (at thickness ranging from 2mm to 1/8").

                      1. re: jljohn

                        Are you saying anything more here than that all pans that are marked and sold as Mauviel will carry the Mauviel mark? isn't this a mere truism?
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        As far as the obvious being a "truism" well....not according to some.
                        My dish machine was made by Asko. You can call it what ever you like but it will never be a Viking. Yes it's the same machine sans badge, handle and warranty but a Viking it is not.
                        If you look directly at the Mauviel catalog they have cut back 3mm tin lined items to a very few pieces. You may still find stock at some dealers.
                        The real confusion with WS for many is because WS had their own line of copper cookware made for them by Mauviel. They were never marked Mauviel and some stores may still have both lines on the shelf. Clearly in some cases it's easy to miss the Mauviel stamp.
                        Not that I think any of this matters in the slightest to the OP.

                        TJ

                      2. re: TraderJoe

                        does anyone know mark of chef hat with france in it and made in france stamped next to it on tin/copper fry pan

                      3. re: jljohn

                        Hi, Jeremy: "[I]ts very hard to say anything absolute about Mauviel and their manufacturing practices."

                        Yes. The old, thick pans Chuck Williams, Lamalle, Bazaar and others imported into USA were made by Mauviel, but do not bear its mark. I believe this practice continues to this day with the pans retailed by Dehillerin (the extra fort pans of which are still thick, tinned and aren't stamped "Mauviel"). I would go so far to say that marking their wares with the name is probably a mid-20th Century nod to retail branding. Before a certain point in time, the pans simply bore a small rooster stamp, if anything.

                        Aloha,
                        Kaleo

                2. re: blue room

                  Hi, blue room:

                  Yes, relax and enjoy.

                  There is plenty of good- and hotel-grade copper out there with no mark at all. You were wise to recognize the *outward* signs of good quality and buy at a bargain. Many, many pans marked only "Made in France" were made by Bourgeat and Mauviel, and many marked otherwise were, too, e.g., Williams-Sonoma, Bazaar Francaise 666, even (believe it or not) Crate & Barrel. That's why you should judge by the thickness, tinning, shape, handle details, etc. But you already tumbled to that, didn't you?

                  Cook in this until you die, happy and full, and provide for it in your bequests.

                  Aloha,
                  Kaleo

                  1. re: kaleokahu

                    "You were wise to recognize..."
                    Not wisdom --Chowhound Cookware posts, easily 90% + yours.

                  2. re: blue room

                    Just curious, but was this oven baking that caused the damage ?

                    At what temperature ?

                    Thank You,

                3. My first piece of heavy copper was my sauté pan, and I got it for half price because it had been returned because of bubbled tin, much worse than yours. Nearly forty years later it still looks the same and works great. Don't sweat it.

                  1. Ok I'm crawling back in here, embarrased -- I found the mark amidst the water spots --I had looked only on the bottom and handle -- the mark is on the side *near* the handle -- 1 inch long, very unobtrusive. (The camera lens shows too, reflected.)

                     
                    2 Replies
                    1. re: blue room

                      No problem, blue moon. I can tell from the outline lettering and press-finish on the mark that your pan is of late 20th C manufacture. A good buy new for $180.

                      1. re: blue room

                        -- the mark is on the side *near* the handle -
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        That's where it should be. Glad you found it. :)
                        $180 was a steal if that pan was new old stock.

                        TJ

                      2. Finally tracked down my source -- they still seem to have good prices. Now $214 for the 10 inch (2.5 deep tin) Mauviel.

                        http://www.buycoppercookware.com/mauv...

                        1. copper cookware question. I purchased a set of copper/ tin lined cookware in France 20 years ago at an antiques fair by the Seine on an island to the west of Paris-- Chatout (sp?) I had them re-tinned, and have used them since. Anyhow, the cookware (all saucepans) is very heavy, but was sold without lids. I'd love to have a set of lids for the pots. Any ideas on where to find them?

                          7 Replies
                            1. re: blue room

                              Hi Again, blue room:

                              I have this unmarked set, and it is superb. RMR isn't saying who the manufacturer is (RMR assembles, but did not spec them). By the logic of some, that must mean no one made them, since they're unmarked! At last report, not all the lid sizes are available.

                              N.B. on what RMR says about cleansers: "Never use cleansers, steel wool or Scotch-Brite. If the cleaner can scratch, do not use it."

                              Aloha,
                              Kaleo

                            2. re: jwg

                              Hi, jwg:

                              I believe deBuyer sells new loop-handled lids in all the common sizes. I have seen several listed on eBay as new.

                              If you want to do it right (have them all match, sit inside the rim, or have one for each pan) then I would contact E Dehillerin in Paris and just order the Mauviel ones they sell under their name. If you like the "lollypop" style, and don't care if every pan has its own lid, then these can also be found on eBay, but again the chances of getting X vintage lids that totally match are slim. Oval and domed lids that fit are almost impossible to find--you're better off buying a pan to match the lid.

                              Hope this helps,
                              Aloha,
                              Kaleo

                              1. re: jwg

                                "I'd love to have a set of lids for the pots. Any ideas on where to find them?"

                                Dehillerin in Paris. IIR you may have to fax your order and freight is expensive. I would suggest going with actual Mauviel (assuming your sauce pans are Mauviel) instead of the house brand to avoid any confusion. The freight would cost more than the lid if there was an error.

                                TJ

                                http://www.e-dehillerin.fr/index.php

                                1. re: TraderJoe

                                  Definitely don't want any confusion about the makers...

                                  Mere coincidence that the first Mauviel lids shown here: http://www.mauvielusa.com/Lids.html?p... are identical to Dehillerin's, shown here: http://www.e-dehillerin.fr/en/cuprino....

                                  It's even the same photo.

                                  1. re: kaleokahu

                                    So, lamalle 666 gets a thumbs up?

                                    [[K, send me your email again; it got eaten in a machine swap.]]

                                    1. re: rbraham

                                      Hi, Rob:

                                      Some Lamalle is very good, but I think they imported different-gauge lines, so you have to watch weight and thickness carefully. I have a large planished oval gratin and a 3mm Pommes Anna marked Lamalle that are two one of my favorites.

                                      kaleokahu@gmail.com

                                      Aloha,
                                      Kaleo

                              2. @ kaleokahu,

                                Wwhat do you know about Crate and Barrel Mauviel, just curious?

                                Thanks, Greg

                                1 Reply
                                1. re: greyhound1117

                                  Hi, Greg:

                                  Crate & Barrel, before it was hijacked into the corporate brandosphere, was an important importer of Mauviel, on a par with Williams-Sonoma, Bazar Francais, Bridge, et al. They imported the same stuff (contract house-branded, of course) as all of those. Early, thick C&B is a dirty little collector's secret because everyone assumes C&B has always been as schlocky as it is now. It joined the ranks of venerable businesses that were taken over for corporate profit like Abercrombie & Fitch, Eddie Bauer, etc.

                                  Caveat Emptor: Like many importers, C&B sold Mauviel in different grades. Always check thickness and weight before buying.

                                  Aloha,
                                  Kaleo