Tourists not given whole menu?

[cleopatra999]

My SO and I went for dinner tonight in Rome and although we enjoyed our meals, we saw some amazing food coming out of the kitchen that I am sure was not on the menu or specials board. We are genuinely interested in the food and menu, try to ask questions, and I feel we are polite and friendly. I do not feel that this has happened in the previous places that we visited, but we were in extremely quiet (tourist wise) places. Is there something I can specifically ask, in Italian if necessary (although I can't really speak it well) to ensure that I get what the chef recommends and is fresh for that day? I am sad that I missed out tonight on an amazing looking raw artichoke salad and some beautiful langoustines.

[cacruden]

Simple way to check is to get both an Italian menu and an English one and do a quick comparison if there is a difference. I know it happens here (Thailand) because they only translate the popular items that westerners order sometimes (servers do not speak english). Sometimes I get an english menu and a thai one and use the english one to get the popular stuff then look on the thai one (which I read like a pre-schooler sounding out words) and take a very long time looking for specific dishes.
A second possibility is that locals will order things off menu, some restaurants are quite happy making stuff for you if they know how and have the ingredients for it.
I guess it is time for you to start boning up on your menu Italian :p

[barberinibee]

@cleopatra,

In which Roman restaurant did this happen?

[cleopatra999]

@barberinibee it happened at Le Mani In Pasta.

[Tuscanlover]

I have never experienced this is years of going to the "real" italy and even in Venice.

[allende]

Absolutely agree with you. Never once in 35 years and between 1500- 2000 restaurant meals has it happened. Perhaps it is the restaurants we go to, mainly in the countryside of Piemonte, Emilia- Romagna, Toscana, Lombardia and the Alta Badia, but our experience has always been that any daily special has always been told to us, as a matter of pride if nothing else. Must be a Rome thing.

[jen kalb]

we have experienced this, both in Venice and in Rome, although not elsewhere in the country. I remember a market vender in the Testaccio market who refused to sell me a bunch of roman mint. She asked me what I was using it for and my explanation didnt pass muster- not even to the extent of giving me a couple of sprigs. she was the only vendor in the market who had this item, and perhaps she had regular customers who would be relying on her?

So Id say there is a possibility that this will happen, but it wont happen often. You asked about Trattoria Monti in another thread - they gave us a big english menu and didnt tell us the daily specials (engaging across a language barrier can be hard for the waiters, too) so I had to remember what was on the board out front to order them. even that is fairly uncommon, but it happens sometimes,so that you will experience the phenomenon you are talking about of seeing dishes you did not know were available arriving at nearby tables. To a degree it pays to be philosophical if you arent going to learn very much of the language (:>))

[ambra]

What was the woman's excuse as to why she wouldn't sell it to you? I might have told her something along the lines of, "mind your own business." :)

I've had very different experiences in that market. For example, I bought and received extra free handfuls of "puntarelle" and was given step by step instructions on how to prepare them along with a free clementine to see if I'd like to buy them, which I did.

[jen kalb]

well it was her business....in a way I understand her rationale. Its an herb that is needed for certain dishes, and someone making those dishes could get bent out of shape if she didnt have it...asking me what I was using it for (I think I said zucchini) might have revealed me as someone who actually knew what the herb was and needed it or an ignoramus.

However, I think its more a case of normal interaction. Talking about what an item is to be used for is really part of the normal give and take with market vendors. Maybe if I had had more italian language facility, we would have sparred/joked a bit and gone on to a great discussion of different dishes (as I imagine she may do with her local customers) and I would have walked away with the herb and a smile on my face instead of this perplexing experience to relate..

its easy enough to get tangled up in a restaurant dialog too due to language issues, but it just goes with the territory

[Tuscanlover]

Whats has the experience in a market got to do with how restaurants operate?

[jen kalb]

its the same insider-outsider situation. anyway I stated that there were restaurant examples as well in rome and venice. Which I have provided in the past. I also think any time you cant fully communicate (leaving aside any insider-outsider issue which I agree is uncommon in Italian hospitality), you are intrinsically at a disadvantage in finding out about special items the kitchen might have in quantities too small to put on the menu, a special fish for example. Its just the way things can be sometimes. We will try to ask about daily specials or recommendations of the specialty of the house, but often, as a first timer in a restaurant, we often see enough enticing items on the menu that this isnt a big priority.

[mbfant]

There is no question that not everybody always gets all the choices. This is one reason I am always telling people to talk to waiters, engage them in conversation about the food, and establish your credentials as an informed, curious eater. Even if you read the menu and see exactly what you want and know you won't change your mind, it's still a good idea to ask a question or two just to show you care.
The missing out on things doesn't just happen to tourists. Raw artichoke salad and langoustines could easily be items not available every day, so they won't be on the printed menu, much less on the "translated" menu, and possibly also in short supply, in which case they would be proposed to regular customers. The entire retail and service sector of Rome is very bad about recognizing that today's new customer is tomorrow's regular. There is a widespread attitude that people you don't know are probably not coming back and are trying to steal your attention from your regular customers. Obviously not every restaurant has this attitude, but it is common, also in food shops and markets.
Then there's the language problem, or imagined language problem. YOU may not have a language problem, but often, as soon as they register that you're a foreigner, they hold back. It may be too difficult (they think) to explain something or they may just think you won't like something ("Americans don't eat raw artichokes") and will suggest it instead to someone they know will appreciate it.
Often it's just a question of ineptness, laziness, or distraction. Or indifference. My Italian husband gets very riled up when he sees yummy things we weren't told about going to other tables. When that happens, he grabs waiter or owner and demands an explanation. He has a very good technique for this -- a combination of hurt, irony, and serious. The result has often been something yummy delivered to our table, but occasionally it has been a restaurant crossed off our list.