Wilber's has Banh Mi?!?!?

[AnneInMpls]

Has anyone tried the new Banh Mi at Wilber's Sandwiches in the St. Paul skyway?

I saw a sign advertising their Banh Mi last week, and figured it was an April Fool's joke. But it's still on the white-board menu this week (along with Vietnamese iced coffee!), so it must be real.

My question: Do they use the right bread - made with rice flour for the all important flakiness and crunch? Or just standard hoagie rolls?

And do they have sriracha?

[mull0263]

I normally ignore just about everything Kathy Jenkins writes, but there was a write-up about Wilbur's new ownership, which explains the addition of the banh mi to the menu:

http://www.twincities.com/restaurants...

[AnneInMpls]

I finally got to Wilber's on Thursday for banh mi. Lovely! I don't know if it was the best banh mi I've ever had, but it was right up there on my Top-Ten list of craveable sandwiches.

They had "proper" bread (flaky and airy - regardless of the wheat and/or rice content) that even survived 20 minutes under my arm as I strolled the skyways. When they made the sandwich, they microwaved the pre-grilled pork, but that meant it was warm (i.e., not cold) when I finally ate my banh mi. The carrots were thick shreds, not julienned; no daikon (or whatever the white vegetable is), but there was a generous amount of carrot to compensate. Best of all, the bread left a multitude of shards and crumbs on my desk - my keyboard will never be the same.

AND THEY HAD SRIRACHA ON THE COUNTER!

Various fillings are available, including chicken, pork, and ?? (veggie, maybe). I had the pork banh mi. I shall return - often - to try the other versions.

[kevin47]

I'm going to randomly throw a shout out to Pho 79 (Energy Park location) for their Bahn Mi. In general, even at the better spots, I find the bread weighs down the other ingredients by virtue of sheer volume. Pho 79 gets the balance right, and they have sri racha on hand.

[foreverhungry]

For full disclosure, I'll first say that I'm not a fan of Bahn Mi sandwiches, which seems sacrilege to say in this area. At least, I haven't liked any that I've tried so far. With that caveat in mind....my understanding that a bahn mi was made with French bread, and that that bread could, but didn't have to, include some rice flour. I've seen some reputable looking Vietnamese blogs and cookbooks that suggest using somewhere between 20 - 50% rice flour in the dough (some with the balance of whole wheat flour), while other comes right out and say they use standard white flour and specifically don't use rice flour because it can weigh the dough down and is very difficult to use well. Personally, I've never used rice flour, so I have no idea.

I'd agree that a soft hoagie or sub roll would be inappropriate. But French bread is a straight contribution to the origins of the sandwich, so it would seem to be a perfectly appropriate bread to use.

Are there bahn mi's served in the Twin Cities area that specifically use rice flour in their bread? I'd be interested in trying that bread to see how much of a difference it makes compared to a high quality French bread.

[The Dairy Queen]

I haven't found anyone in the Twin Cities who admits to using bread that contains rice flour for their bahn mi sandwiches. Saigon, Ala Francaise, Trung Nam all bake their own. Trung Nam wouldn't discuss their recipe with me even in generalities, but Saigon and AlaF both told me they don't use rice flour in their bread. Most all of the other Twin Cities banh mi sandwich makers I've spoken to get their bread from Ala Francaise or New French Bakery.

As far as not liking banh mi sandwiches, when it boils down to it, a bahn mi sandwich in my mind is basically just a sandwich on crusty French with Vietnamese ingredients. It doesn't have to be complicated or fully loaded or even with anything in particular in my mind. Sometimes, Vietnamese people stuff their leftovers in between two pieces of bread and eat it. It's as simple as that. As long as you like Vietnamese food, French bread, and sandwiches in general I really don't see how you wouldn't like banh mi sandwiches. I'm sure there's a sandwich out there for you somewhere! Keep looking.

~TDQ

[AnneInMpls]

Very interesting!

I'm completely uneducated on this topic, other than reading something a few months ago about rice flour in banh mi buns - it was an Internet comment on some smallish town I visited (Duluth? Tacoma? Madison? Nashville? I can't remember) where someone was bemoaning the lack of rice flour in the bread used by only banh mi place in town. They specifically mentioned the lightness and flakiness imparted only by a certain percentage of rice flour. (Though perhaps a good French bakery would have provided a close approximation.) After I returned home, I decided - with a complete lack of research - that my favorite banh mi had that certain je-ne-sais-quoi so elegantly summarized by Chowhound Melanie Wong in another thread: "The very light ones with the shattering crust are made with some rice flour blended with the wheat flour." Specifically, I adore the flaky lightness of the banh mi buns at Saigon and Jasmine Orchid (and few other other places up and down University Ave and Nicollet Ave).

So I can't say for sure that my favorite local banh mi joints use bread containing rice flour. I know only that i love those flaky fly-away shards in the lightest bread from my favorite places.

Back to the topic of Wilber's Banh Mi: I suspect that I'll have to do my own research. I have no problem with that, but it'll have to wait until next week. Friday is Bi Bim Bop / Kim Bop day at the Orient Chinese Restaurant in the Securian Building - Korean food is available on Fridays only, so I can't skip that!

[The Dairy Queen]

Saigon doesn't use rice flour in their banh mi bread. Neither does Ala Francaise bakery which supplies many of the places up and down University Avenue, at least a couple places on Nicollet, and several Asian markets. I just checked my notes and (despite what I said above that they wouldn't discuss their recipe, which i wrote from memory while multi-tasking as usual ) Trung Nam also denied using rice flour in their banh mi sandwich baguettes. Jasmine has said their baguettes do not have rice flour in them. The shattering crust of the baguettes available in the Twin Cities has more to do with steam in the ovens than rice flour. Also, freshness.

~TDQ

[foreverhungry]

Thanks for the info, TDQ. I was suspicious that any bakeries were using rice flour, given that there aren't that many bakeries in the area that make high quality French bread, with the characteristics you and Anne mentioned - airy light interior and crisp shattering crust - a result, at least in part, as you point out, of steam injected ovens.

As for bahn-mi's in general, I love French bread and sandwiches, but to be honest, I'm kinda "meh" on Vietnamese food. To me, it's OK, but I just wouldn't go out of my way for it, based on the sampling I've had. But hey, that's just me; clearly, Vietnamese food enjoys an immense popularity in the area, and we're recognized by having on of the top Vietnamese food scenes in the area. That's awesome. I'll have to give a few more bahn mi's a try before closing that chapter.

[The Dairy Queen]

The way it was explained to me, why use rice flour when wheat flour is cheaper and readily available here and when rice flour would have likely have been considered a substitution in the first place?

(ETA: when Andrea Nguyen's book Into the Vietnamese Kitchen was Cookbook of the Month on the Home Cooking Board several years back, I became obsessed with finding "rice flour" baguettes as a result of something I'd read in her book. I looked and asked everywhere an couldn't find a single place in the Twin Cities that had rice flour in their baguettes.)

If you're just "meh" on Vietnamese food (and you are certainly entitled to your preferences as we all are, so you'll get no judgment from me on that point), there's probably not too many reasons to pursue a sandwich intended to use up Vietnamese leftovers! (Although most commercial banh mi in the Twin Cities don't use leftovers as one might in a Vietnamese household.)

Maybe you might have more luck if you considered a different approach to banh mi. Instead of pursuing the more traditional ones at places like Saigon and Jasmine and Ai Hue and so forth, maybe check out the "upscale"/contemporary interpretations such as at Ngon Bistro, 112 Eatery, Heartland, Surdyk's and so on.

I'm anxious to read what Anne thinks about Wilbur's, bi bim bop Friday notwithstanding...

~TDQ

[mull0263]

This has been an interesting topic. I'm a big fan of the banh mi, but admittedly am (or was?) fairly ignorant of it's history and the preparation of the bread.

To TDQ's last point, some of those places mentioned with less-than-traditional or more upscale banh mis are good suggestions. I really like Ngon's banh mi and I've heard that Blackbird Cafe also has a great rendition. When you can find it on the deli menu at Heartland, it's also quite good as they usually have some very good terrines and pates they use, but I abhor the ficelle bread they use as it's very thin and quite dense.

[The Dairy Queen]

Dense is a problem because all of the good stuff squeezes out when you try to take a bite!

~TDQ

[foreverhungry]

Thanks for the tip on the "non-traditional" interpretations, I wasn't aware of many of those. I'll certainly give them a shot. At the same time, I'm not yet willing to completely give up on the traditional ones. Thanks for the insights!

[jaycooke]

Wait, that place next to Maison D'arras has Korean Fridays? And it's good?

[AnneInMpls]

Yup, the Friday Korean food (3 or 4 dishes) at the Orient Chinese Restaurant is good stuff. I always feel a pang when I walk past Maison Darras without going in, but they know that they won't see me on a Friday because it's Korean Food Day.

I love the bi bim bop. It's not the best bi bim bop in town, but it's quite respectable - and it's certainly the best bi bim bop in the St. Paul skyways (as far as I know). For those who haven't had BBB yet: bi bim bop is a big bowl of white rice topped with a modest amount of stir-fried (?) beef, plus heaps of 6 or 7 veggies - julienned zucchini, cooked spinach, shredded (and pickled?) daikon, julienned carrots, lightly pickled cabbage, sprouts, and ... (I can't remember what else, but there's more). And then it's topped with a fried egg. Yum-a-rama! Kimchi is available by request.

I'm also fond of their kim bop, which vaguely resembles a hearty Japanese sushi roll, if made with carrots and spinach and beef and egg (many of the bi bim bop ingredients, in fact). It's served at room temp, and is premade and prewrapped on a styrofoam platter. I don't know if this is authentic, but I always get some hot chili oil and soy sauce for dipping.

I think they have Bulgoki, too, but I've never tried it.