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ya think CH moderators are harsh? here's a frame of reference/perspective

hill food Mar 30, 2012 10:42 PM

on FB I received this twice tonight:

"Are you sure you want to post this?
If your comment is irrelevant or inappropriate, you may be be blocked from commenting on public posts. Please review your comment before posting."

both in direct response to a friend's posts. once I was comparing insect nests to certain thoughts on 20thc architecture and another agreeing that a picture of an elderly lesbian couple was sort of sweet. irrelevant or inappropriate for CH oh yes. FB not at all.

I found the request strange and thought the recent complaints about over moderation here to reaffirm the CH approach. if my comment was offensive just cut it, don't ask me to 2nd guess a completely innocuous remark. I guess FB has the software and CH does it by hand. but the difference in approach was striking. I prefer the CH hands-on approach rather than wondering "WTF did I say?" here I usually do understand if I stop to think about it. using a logorithm is just weird.

so we may not always agree with the PTB but we are getting some level of personal attention.

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  1. h
    HillJ RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 05:25 AM

    I am having a hard time following your analogy, hill food. Who's FB was it? Yours, CH's, a friends, work, something you just follow...doesn't moderation come from the person/people who originally opened the FB account you were commenting in? Be it guestbook, blog comment area, FB wall, Twitter tweets or IM..the person who opens the account has the right to moderate/delete remarks.

    6 Replies
    1. re: HillJ
      hill food RE: HillJ Mar 31, 2012 05:20 PM

      it was an old friend's wall, nothing untoward or strange, and the only thing I can think is that for some reason software singled it out.

      my point (and the relevant part) is that there isn't an auto response at play here.

      1. re: hill food
        Quine RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 05:29 PM

        Sometimes I think a software floats looking for specific words here. I think snark or snarky is a trigger word.

        1. re: hill food
          h
          HillJ RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 06:02 PM

          http://www.facebook.com/help/disabled...

          hill food, do you mean rules/guidelines of this nature?

          1. re: HillJ
            hill food RE: HillJ Mar 31, 2012 06:09 PM

            I don't think any of this qualified as such

            but anyway I didn't bring this up to debate FB's or any other sites policies, but since there has been some griping of late it was rather to say I sorta like the personal touch around CH and it could be worse. granted there are differences in scale, but I feel if I had an issue somehow I might be able to get an answer from a real person here.

            1. re: hill food
              h
              HillJ RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 06:14 PM

              I'm just trying to understand it. I don't FB at all, I find it a zoo of the most unappealing kind. Even the rules and guidelines aren't straight forward. I really dislike the entire concept. Free for alls don't wow me. But as for your point vis a ve CH, absolutely. Moderation may bug us from time to time but it's civil around here; hardly zoo-like in my book and far more organized.

              1. re: HillJ
                hill food RE: HillJ Mar 31, 2012 09:17 PM

                it is indeed generally quite civil around here.

      2. b
        Brock Lee Robb RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 01:00 PM

        Have to agree. Using a logarithm would be weird. Even a natural logarithm seems out of place here. Tangential even. Far from sine qua non. OK, enuf math puns.

        1 Reply
        1. re: Brock Lee Robb
          hill food RE: Brock Lee Robb Mar 31, 2012 05:30 PM

          oh right, the search engines use algorithms, right? math past geometry was where I derailed.

        2. carolinadawg RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 03:46 PM

          Two wrongs don't make a right.

          1. Quine RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 04:03 PM

            I have never ever seen any, any in any way shape or form of moderation on FB. I have personally reported puppy torture and killing profiles, kiddie porn as as well as other forms of animal abuse and all with tons of photos on FB through the years. FOR SURE FB is not moderated, as these profiles pop up daily.

            Heck I have even seen Full frontal male nudity on CH here...yeah try finding a mod here when you NEED one. And *yes, of course* I used report!

            5 Replies
            1. re: Quine
              Servorg RE: Quine Mar 31, 2012 04:18 PM

              "Heck I have even seen Full frontal male nudity on CH here"

              Was that CH "Street Food View" catching someone in the buff by some chance? ;-D>

              1. re: Servorg
                Quine RE: Servorg Mar 31, 2012 04:29 PM

                Nope, was a spammer posting several full frontal male nudes in various cookware posts.

                1. re: Quine
                  Servorg RE: Quine Mar 31, 2012 05:44 PM

                  And were they pulled down or are they still up (so to speak)?

              2. re: Quine
                hill food RE: Quine Mar 31, 2012 05:26 PM

                Quine - FB is ramping up, another friend was threatened with full banishment for posting a less than flattering (faked) photo of Santorum (and tagged it as one of me!)

                but again, CH just cuts the post unless a major line has been crossed. they don't post non-human-moderated auto-warnings, essentially asking one to self-edit. I prefer the CH approach. much more gentle and considered.

                1. re: hill food
                  Quine RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 06:36 PM

                  LOL, Well the article did show that FB employs, literally Police/paid enforcers, who are outsourced for slave wages, so, I am sure such threats have been a response. FB has yet to learn you get what you pay for. As for automated responses, at least one is given. Here things just disappear, no warning nor explanation. So two extremes, auto-bots and outsourced paid enforcers vs. real people with moderation that many, feel is spotty, inconsistent, plays favorites and has a hit list. Both bad situations. At least here we can leave post-its on the wall and hope someone will read them and work to make it better.

              3. Chemicalkinetics RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 05:51 PM

                First, I don't use Facebook, but to put this in perspective, there is no way to implement moderation without software on Facebook due to the huge volume of messages there.

                46 Replies
                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                  Servorg RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 31, 2012 05:56 PM

                  "...but to put this in perspective, there is no way to implement moderation without software on Facebook due to the huge volume of messages there."

                  Just as there is no way to effectively moderate CH without posters using the "Report This" button.

                  1. re: Servorg
                    hill food RE: Servorg Mar 31, 2012 06:10 PM

                    quite valid both

                  2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                    drewskiSF RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 31, 2012 07:54 PM

                    according to the article linked above, some of the moderation is from user reported data (like the CH "Report" link), not from automated algorithms. how much that is vs. some automated system vs. user reported, i couldn't say and they don't reveal.

                    i would say that an impartial view point vs. a moderator who could be involved in the thread in question seems better.

                    i'm not arguing in favor of $1/hr drones in foreign countries.

                    1. re: drewskiSF
                      Quine RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 08:14 PM

                      +1

                      1. re: drewskiSF
                        Chemicalkinetics RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 08:50 PM

                        "i would say that an impartial view point vs. a moderator who could be involved in the thread in question seems better. "

                        It all depends your view point. Some people prefer a more impartial system, and other prefer and more hands-on. There is no good answer for these. Moreover, I don't think many people understand how difficult it is to moderate. People have a tendency to believe they are the correct person and only see fault in others. So, often people just think moderators are unfair. The truth is that the moderator can only please people 50% of the time -- the most -- just like a judge. When a judge makes his decision, one party will be disappointed for sure, sometime both.

                        Back to my original point, Facebook needs some automatic computerized system to handle its massive posting. There is no way out of this.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                          drewskiSF RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 31, 2012 09:33 PM

                          i would agree that people tend to be myopic in their own disputes, but i would also argue the moderators can definitely please > 50% of the people.

                          it's rarely a 50/50 split, since the opposing views are usually shared among other readers of a thread and should be considered in the overall evaluation. and if the moderator is among those people, their viewpoint can be biased in one direction or the other, just like any other participant.

                          if the moderators are possibly involved in the discussion under question, they can have "skin in the game" and may not be completely objective. if they are anonymous, as they are in CH, they don't have to worry as much about revealing any biases they may have.

                          kind of like arbitration. you're looking to an un-involved 3rd party to settle the dispute. the way things are now, you don't know how un-involved that decision maker is.

                          1. re: drewskiSF
                            hill food RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 09:38 PM

                            or the conundrum mostly seen in anthropology or sociology (yet extends into many realms) that the very act of observation changes the behavior of the subject.

                            1. re: hill food
                              drewskiSF RE: hill food Mar 31, 2012 10:08 PM

                              indeed. sounds challenging!

                            2. re: drewskiSF
                              Chemicalkinetics RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 09:46 PM

                              Of course, there is the problem of exactly how involved you need the moderator be. The more personal involved, the less biased. However, the less involved, then the less knowledgeable about the history of the party.

                              Moderator pleasing >50% of the people is possible, but unlikely. Unless, we are talking about someone who really obviously misbehaved. Often, the disputes could start with different of opinions and then escalated. As such, sometime there is no clear "first shot". So you will have some people agree with person A, and some people agree with person B. Yet, not everyone agree with person A want person B's posts to be removed, and not everyone agree with person B want person A's posts to be deleted. There is a good chunk of people who lean "free speech" .

                              As such, when posts are removed, more likely than not, a good chunk of people do not agree.

                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                drewskiSF RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 31, 2012 10:13 PM

                                > The more personal involved, the less biased.

                                I would think the opposite. the more personally involved, the more likely they might be in the A or B camp.

                                i also think it's rare that these camps are equally divided so i agree that a good chunk of people will not agree, but i don't agree it will be an even split.

                                i am of the free speech camp so think CH is possibly currently over-moderated

                                1. re: drewskiSF
                                  Chemicalkinetics RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 10:17 PM

                                  About making more than 50% happy, I think we just have to agree to disagree then -- after all I think we have both made our points relatively clear.

                                  I also think CH is overly moderated, and if I have it my way, then it would be moderated less. However, this is their site, and they have an objective -- maybe dictated from CBS above. We are the guests. That I understand and respect.

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                    drewskiSF RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 31, 2012 10:24 PM

                                    i agree that we are only guests.

                                    i only hope that some of our views are considered as CBS shapes the future of the site.

                                    apologies, if i was overly argumentative! i'll blame it on the rainy weather here in CA ;-)

                                    1. re: drewskiSF
                                      Chemicalkinetics RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 10:26 PM

                                      "i only hope that some of our views are considered as CBS shapes the future of the site."

                                      Excellent point.

                                      1. re: drewskiSF
                                        Quine RE: drewskiSF Apr 1, 2012 08:31 AM

                                        I would not say guest, but rather customers. Guests would not be subject to ads.

                                      2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                        carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 1, 2012 09:54 AM

                                        Posters aren't guests, they're content providers. I hope the site owners realize that without anyone posting, there is no site.

                                        1. re: carolinadawg
                                          h
                                          HillJ RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 09:56 AM

                                          There's no community; the Chowhound section of the site. However, the CHOW side is supported by paid writers and CHOW staff. Without CHOW there is no Chowhound. Advertising usually pays the bills...

                                          Anyone? Have I got it wrong?

                                          1. re: carolinadawg
                                            Chemicalkinetics RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 11:17 AM

                                            CHOWHOUND is part of CHOW. Just like CNN or other news site allow people to contribute. No having content providers does not equal to "no site"

                                            HillJ is correct.

                                            We are using this website mostly for free -- except for the advertisement posted on the webpage. It is really the other way around. Without the advertisement, then there is no CHOW or CHOWHOUND.

                                            If people think it is so easy to run a site like CHOWHOUND, they can certainly try to make one on their own. It is not going to be easy. There are millions of food blogs and food websites out there, and only a very few handful are successful and influential. The ratio of unsuccessful websites to successful ones is huge.

                                            It is nice to provide suggestions as dewskiSF clearly stated, but there is a lot about running a good websites which many of us do not fully understand. For us to lecture a very successful website like CHOWHOUND how to run its website shows lack of understanding.

                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                              carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 1, 2012 05:34 PM

                                              I see I've riled the cool kids. <sigh> in any event, the content of Chowhound is most certainly provided by the posters, at no cost to the owners of the site. I never said operating this site, or any site, is easy. I never "lectured" anyone. I simply pointed out a simple, undeniable, reality.

                                              1. re: carolinadawg
                                                Servorg RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 05:41 PM

                                                Having personally paid a couple of hundred dollars to help keep the lights on here in the Jim Leff days I like the new model a whole lot better...(cool kid or not)

                                                1. re: Servorg
                                                  carolinadawg RE: Servorg Apr 1, 2012 05:45 PM

                                                  And then or now, do you consider yourself a "guest" on CH?

                                                  1. re: carolinadawg
                                                    Servorg RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 07:24 PM

                                                    I considered myself, then as now, a willing participant who came here of my own free will because I enjoy it. No more. No less. I'm very glad that to keep the lights on I no longer have to pay to play. I like this site. I stay because I still enjoy and get value from this site. If that stops being true I won't come here anymore. No one forces me to post. I do so because I want to. It's really pretty simple. Not too hard to understand (I hope).

                                                    I feel I get a lot more from the site than I provide. That hasn't changed either.

                                                2. re: carolinadawg
                                                  h
                                                  HillJ RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 06:07 PM

                                                  wow, try to help a fellow hound and the spatula comes out. cool kids, ha! what the heck does that mean. FWIW, I'm a registered member enjoying a free forum to discuss food passion. This site is not a free enterprise. No more lectures.

                                                  1. re: carolinadawg
                                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 06:09 PM

                                                    "I see I've riled the cool kids"

                                                    What are you talking about? Stay on the topic, man.

                                                    " the content of Chowhound is most certainly provided by the posters, at no cost to the owners of the site"

                                                    Yes, and no. Yes, we provided information to the site without charging them. However, it does not mean this part of the website (CHOWHOUND) is free to operate. It costs money to keep it alive. From a business point of view, you have to ask, why would you want to keep a forum or whatever alive if it costs you money. Well, it better brings in revenue. That is where the ads come from. Just because you freely provide inforamtion on this website, it is far from what it takes to keep it alive.

                                                    "I never said operating this site, or any site, is easy. I never "lectured" anyone. I simply pointed out a simple, undeniable, reality."

                                                    I wasn't talking about you in particular term. I am just saying that people (not necessary you) who talk/lecture about how CHOWHOUND should be run, probably do not really know what it takes to run. Kinda of like people who never played high school football telling professional football players how to run a ball. Again, it wasn't direct at you.

                                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                      h
                                                      HillJ RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 1, 2012 06:17 PM

                                                      Chem, I thought the help was being offered to carolinad actually since they raised the point. And I asked for help as well. So, thanks.

                                                      1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                        carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 1, 2012 06:23 PM

                                                        There's no yes and no, unless someone is being paid to post here that I'm not aware of. Posters provide the content of CH at no cost. I'm well aware it costs money to operate this site and I certainly never suggested otherwise. You are putting words in my mouth, so I'm not the one who needs to stay on topic.

                                                        Your post was in direct reply to mine, so if you weren't aiming at me, how was I to know that?

                                                        1. re: carolinadawg
                                                          Chemicalkinetics RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 07:06 PM

                                                          "Posters provide the content of CH at no cost."

                                                          I am not sure what are you trying to get at, really. This is the same for 99% of the forums. My point is that CHOW is still their website. Have you ever been to other forums, where you are signed in as a "guest"? This is not something new.

                                                          We are using this site or others for free. We are not charged. It is still their site, just like it is someone's house. We are here at their pleasure, which is why you signed a bunch of "house" rules when you join this forum. You are expected to follow their rules. Just because you think you are provding free information or advises, it does not make you not a guest. You can go to someone's house and express your opinions all you like, but at the end of the day you are a guest. Maybe a valuable guest, but still a guest. Even if they do pay you to come and give a speech, you are still a guest. Many companies routinely invite guest speakers who are paid, they are still guests -- guest speakers.

                                                          "I'm not the one who needs to stay on topic."

                                                          You were talking about cool kids or not, which has nothing to do with this topic. What does *"I see I've riled the cool kids. <sigh>"* this has anything to do anything. It is distracting at least, and uncalled for.

                                                          "Your post was in direct reply to mine, so if you weren't aiming at me, how was I to know that?"

                                                          Just because I wrote a post replying to you, it does not mean everything in that post is about you. I didn't say "you" lecture someone. I wrote "we/us" lecturing someone. Specifically, I wrote "For us to lecture a very successful website like CHOWHOUND how to run its website shows lack of understanding."

                                                          "We/us" means it is not "you".

                                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                            carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 1, 2012 07:17 PM

                                                            We obviously have different notions of what constitutes a guest. The rest is akin to a famous line about what the definition of the word is, is. Have a good night.

                                                  2. re: carolinadawg
                                                    Justpaula RE: carolinadawg Apr 1, 2012 07:58 PM

                                                    I *think* I understand what you are saying, but correct me if I am wrong. The site would not exist if were not turning a profit - regardless of the cost to operate the site, clearly it makes money or its owners would cease to operate it. This site makes its bucks from advertising. Companies choose to advertise here because of the site traffic. The traffic on CH is exclusively made up of users who are providing content or those who are viewing user provided content. Therefore without user provided content there would be no traffic, no advertising dollars, no money for its owners. So, you, carolina, are questioning how we can be considered guests if without us there would be no reason for advertisers to spend money on this site.

                                                    I think I get it. Above and beyond anything, CH is a business. The business could not function without us, so it seems off to call us guests. In that way it is not that different from FB.

                                                    1. re: Justpaula
                                                      carolinadawg RE: Justpaula Apr 2, 2012 06:52 AM

                                                      Yes, you are absolutely correct. Clearly it costs to operate the site. Clearly advertising is how that money is generated. Just as clearly, that advertising is only posible because people come to the site to read the posts...wait for it...the posts that we put on here! Its not a chicken or egg situation. We are not guests, we are content providers.

                                                      1. re: carolinadawg
                                                        Servorg RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 06:59 AM

                                                        "We are not guests, we are content providers."

                                                        Completely voluntary "content providers" who are free to stop providing content at anytime we so desire...

                                                        1. re: Servorg
                                                          carolinadawg RE: Servorg Apr 2, 2012 07:16 AM

                                                          Absolutely. Your point?

                                                          My point is that as content providers who are free to stop at any time, CH might want to reconsider their frequently heavy-handed style of management which threatens to drive away many of their content providers, thus decreasing ad revenues. Just a thought.

                                                          1. re: carolinadawg
                                                            Servorg RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 07:31 AM

                                                            My point is pretty well covered by this "Chowhound Team" post from another thread (if you haven't read it): http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7987...

                                                            1. re: carolinadawg
                                                              h
                                                              HillJ RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 07:44 AM

                                                              You sound pretty angry, carolinadawg. Just an observation.
                                                              I hope you're getting more out of CH than this point of view.

                                                            2. re: Servorg
                                                              Chemicalkinetics RE: Servorg Apr 2, 2012 07:16 AM

                                                              This is getting ridiculous about definition of a "guest".

                                                              Voluntary content providers are still guests.

                                                              CHOWHOUND providers are the hosts, and we contributors are guests. They host this site, we enter. It is a standard host-guest relationship. The site belongs to them, not us. We are here (a) at our own free will and (b) at the host's pleasure. No matter how important the guests think they are, they are still guests. One can say the same thing about Late Night shows like Jay Leno or Oprah or whatever. The guests are what make these talk shows interesting, but they are still guests. When Tom Cruise shows up on Jay Leno's set, Tom is a guest even if he is the one getting the viewership and the adverstiments. Jay (and NBC) is the host.

                                                              Ultimately, people can define what a guest is. The important thing is to understand the role of a guest or a voluntary content provider or whatever you want to call. We are here with our free will and we are here at the pleasure of the host -- as simple as that.

                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 2, 2012 07:20 AM

                                                                My point is that it is a symbiotic relationship, and CH might want to consider more carefully the need to keep the site interesting and useful to posters.

                                                                1. re: carolinadawg
                                                                  Chemicalkinetics RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 07:23 AM

                                                                  "My point is that it is a symbiotic relationship"

                                                                  Agree. That is a point which drewskiSF has also mentioned, and I agreed with him/her. Still, we can suggest our wishes to the CHOWHOUND/CHOW providers, but it is still up to them to decide what to do with our suggestions.

                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                    carolinadawg RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 2, 2012 07:27 AM

                                                                    Yes, and as good business people, they might want to consider the potential effects on the bottom line of ignoring those suggestions, just as an employer would consider the suggestions of his employees.

                                                                    1. re: carolinadawg
                                                                      Chemicalkinetics RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 07:39 AM

                                                                      "Yes, and as good business people, they might want to consider the potential effects on the bottom line of ignoring those suggestions, just as an employer would consider the suggestions of his employees."

                                                                      A very good point, and they should definitely consider our opinions and balance our wishes with their desire. I understand that sometime what are most interesting to the content providers, or employees are not the best for the providers or employers, so the CHOWHOUND providers have to balance the needs.

                                                                      In an earlier post, I said to drewskiSF that if I have it my way, then I would wish for a more "free speech" enivornment (less post deletion), and drewskiSF feels the same. I feel many others also feel that way. That being said, I also understand that the CHOWHOUND providers may want to run a more focus and more discipline ship.

                                                                  2. re: carolinadawg
                                                                    mcf RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 07:55 AM

                                                                    But they *do* keep it interesting and useful to posters. Just not every single poster, and some folks may be prone to disgruntlement generally. The rest of us enjoy it here and think of ourselves as participants, not indentured servants.

                                                                    1. re: mcf
                                                                      carolinadawg RE: mcf Apr 2, 2012 08:01 AM

                                                                      I'm glad you're happy! For the record, I don't feel like an indentured servant and never used that term. I also apparently see more grumbling about moderation than you do. And to me, it definitely feels like overall posting traffic is down, thus making me wonder how useful and interesting the site continues to be for more than just a few folks.

                                                                      1. re: carolinadawg
                                                                        mcf RE: carolinadawg Apr 2, 2012 09:04 AM

                                                                        I see lots of grumbling about moderation, too. No matter how things go, a large group is going to be disgruntled. I think some folks who don't like moderation have left for that reason, and some get peeled off by other sites, there are so many, no one is likely to keep up with them all or even many.

                                                                  3. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                                    Justpaula RE: Chemicalkinetics Apr 2, 2012 07:32 AM

                                                                    Ultimately, people can redefine what a guest is. The important thing is to understand the role of a guests or a voluntary content provider or whatever you want to call.

                                                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                                                    I was just thinking the same thing. Restaurants call their customers guests, but we aren't really guests, we are customers. However, whether you prefer to be called a guest or a customer, you make the choice to dine at their restaurants and you are subject to decisions made by the proprietors. Or, you make the choice to not dine at their establishments. So, with CH, whether you prefer to be called a guest or a content provider or a donkey, it is still your choice to be here.

                                                                    Now, how owners (of restaurants or websites) manage and consider their "guests" can have an effect on the success of their businesses. I think carolina's point is that she has observed heavy-handed moderation here driving people away - no matter what you call those people. While I have seen complaints and much discussion on the subject, I don't personally have an opinion on it - yet - since I just returned to CH and just started following Site Talk...

                                                                    1. re: Justpaula
                                                                      h
                                                                      HillJ RE: Justpaula Apr 2, 2012 07:41 AM

                                                                      Consider this, we don't see all of the content posted here. We should assume that CHOW and the Mods at Chowhound also share the same goals to keep the site fun, attractive to new and current members and financially viable. Same goals. Mods are volunteers and contributing content to Chowhound. So if any of us feel we are "giving away" valuable content or that in exchange for a free community we are subject to ads, moderation or deletion there's the Site Board to communication to and be heard. Not all forums offer that! If that's not working for us, we have the right to leave the site. But at the end of the day (& hopefully some awesome chow experiences in RL) we all have the same goals.

                                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                                        Chemicalkinetics RE: Justpaula Apr 2, 2012 07:41 AM

                                                                        "I think carolina's point is that she has observed heavy-handed moderation here driving people away "

                                                                        Yeah, I think I agree the moderation is a bit more heavy-handed than what I would like, and it is more control/discipline than when I first joined. I suppose some people like a more controlled and more friendlier environment, while others prefer and more free speech and more creative setting.

                                                                        1. re: Justpaula
                                                                          carolinadawg RE: Justpaula Apr 2, 2012 07:44 AM

                                                                          Except for changing my gender, your analysis of my point is spot on. lol ;-)

                                                    2. re: drewskiSF
                                                      hill food RE: drewskiSF Mar 31, 2012 09:21 PM

                                                      drew - well that's the thing, the comment over "there" (let's just use that now instead of a name OK?) over there, it was questioned before it was posted. at least CH lets one make an ass of oneself for a few hours. for all the world to see. and be discredited.

                                                  3. c
                                                    Cachetes RE: hill food Apr 1, 2012 08:41 AM

                                                    A key difference is that FB allows for self-moderation in a way that Chowhound does not. The first layer occurs when you choose to accept or deny a friend request. From the outset, this allows you to tailor the experience to your own desires. Then, when a friend does get problematic, it is phenomenally simple to de-friend or hide them. It's only after all of that when FB moderators get involved. They seem much less intrusive than CH (in fact, I've never had any run-ins with FB moderation, and I've been on it for years now), in my experience, but that's likely because I've tailored my experience there to fit my own expectations. It is in no way a free-for-all on FB (even less so than on CH!), unless you are a promiscuous befriender. I'm not criticizing CH's moderation - it's a tough job; I'm just saying that going in, it's different, in that I can't control the users I'm exposed to here.

                                                    34 Replies
                                                    1. re: Cachetes
                                                      h
                                                      HillJ RE: Cachetes Apr 1, 2012 08:53 AM

                                                      Wow, talk about mileage varying. The only FB pages I have seen has been nothing more than human-soup. A absolute free for all. I'm really glad to hear your FB experience is far better than that.

                                                      I guess all the news about misuse and regulating the use of FB at say colleges, through 3rd party affiliations and in the workplace is just what, scare tactics...the worst of the worst case.

                                                      The colleges we are affiliated with have definate FB rules, my workplace stays away from FB and most of the pros I know that even moderately use FB have done so kicking and screaming. Too much oversight or not enough. I hear about FB constantly and I still don't get its hold on people.

                                                      I'm very glad to hear another perspective.

                                                      1. re: HillJ
                                                        Chemicalkinetics RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 08:58 AM

                                                        "I hear about FB constantly and I still don't get its hold on people."

                                                        Me neither.

                                                        1. re: HillJ
                                                          c
                                                          Cachetes RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 09:02 AM

                                                          Maybe it works for me b/c I keep my friends circle tight (well, to about 150 people!). I am in a professional field where I am informally affiliated with people who have similar interests across the country, and FB has become a great place for a subset of us to share articles of interest, ask for advice, and even share a personal thing or two. Beyond that, it's a way to share things with family and friends scattered across the country.

                                                          But I also know people who have 1000s of friends, and who post everything, and that's when I think you can run in to trouble. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy (though I have been nabbed by the CH moderators a few times now!).

                                                          1. re: Cachetes
                                                            Quine RE: Cachetes Apr 1, 2012 10:06 AM

                                                            Cachetes you might want to look at Google +. Makes FB look like paper and pencil social media. My CH profile lists my email, you can contact me if you need any more info.

                                                            I get a great chortle, even a huge belly laugh when heavy users of CH say they "never use Social Media" CH is most definitely Social Media.

                                                            1. re: Quine
                                                              c
                                                              Cachetes RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 10:30 AM

                                                              I had Google + also, but almost never used it because most of my friends hadn't migrated there yet. But the idea of different circles is pretty great; I guess in a way, CH could argue that the different content boards is their version of 'circles', though it's content driven, not user-driven. I also wasn't thrilled when Google linked Google + to my email, and that's when I killed the account. If there were a way to break that link, I'd be interested. Thanks for the offer!

                                                              1. re: Quine
                                                                linguafood RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 10:59 AM

                                                                I kinda think of Google+ as what betamax was to VHS. I don't see it taking off or being anywhere near FB's success/takeover of the virtual world/world domination.

                                                                I got off of G+ cuz all I saw was tumbleweeds and all I heard was crickets. But YMV, clearly.

                                                                1. re: linguafood
                                                                  Quine RE: linguafood Apr 1, 2012 11:54 AM

                                                                  Yes, clearly is does. Right now, am participating in a cookalong, we are doing Fish tacos and side dishes today. But then, I do post a good amount of content, engage in many discussions and keep most of my posts public, so just keeping up with that is almost a full time job. Good thing I like the SM aspect.

                                                                  The Leap Year Day photo project I developed and ran (everyone take a pic on 02/29/12 and post it) resulted in over 4000 photos submitted and we got a $1000 charity donation for that. (split between 5 charities). Thank goodness it only happens every 4 yeras I was up and curating it for over 28 hours straight. So yeah, no crickets or tumbleweeds in my feed.

                                                                  1. re: Quine
                                                                    hill food RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 06:13 PM

                                                                    Q - "cookalong"? I like the idea. I'll search the Home and General boards for details

                                                                    1. re: hill food
                                                                      Quine RE: hill food Apr 1, 2012 07:03 PM

                                                                      The cookalong was on G+ . It was cool. A friend ran it and she had folks participating as far as I know from through out the states and even in Spain. Lots of fun and more than a few shared photos of finished dishes.

                                                                2. re: Quine
                                                                  mamachef RE: Quine Apr 2, 2012 06:36 AM

                                                                  Subjective, at best. It depends on how CH is being utilized.

                                                              2. re: HillJ
                                                                Quine RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 10:01 AM

                                                                I am under the thought that you only see posts by folks that you have "friended" on FB. So I am agreeing with Cachetes on this, if you are seeing crap, it's coming from someone you have friended. As far as I know, and it isn't much since I use FB on a very strict, small friends group, there are no such things as "public"posts. Now, "public" posts are ALL we have here on CH. I would like to see that changed. I would like/love/beg for an "ignore" or "hide user" option.

                                                                1. re: Quine
                                                                  h
                                                                  HillJ RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 10:27 AM

                                                                  hey Quine. No that's me looking over the shoulder of a FB user. Like I said I'm not registered or use FB. It would appear that not all FB is private. Plenty of info is listed without logging in from what I've seen--and plenty of junk is left in.

                                                                  The only community I follow for no reason other than FUN is CH. My work takes me into plenty of professional forums; totally different motivation for me then.

                                                                  My hands and my eyes can ignore plenty all on their own. I don't need those options to move on or away from topics that don't interest me. Plenty interests me tho and how much time I devote to something is a great indicator of my interest.

                                                                  1. re: HillJ
                                                                    Quine RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 10:39 AM

                                                                    Hum. "Plenty of info is listed without logging in from what I've seen--and plenty of junk is left in." So I just logged out of FB and could not see any posts, could not get to FB proper at all.

                                                                    So it seems that to see any posts you must be signed in/logged in.

                                                                    Now I am dreadfully confused.

                                                                    1. re: HillJ
                                                                      c
                                                                      Cachetes RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 10:46 AM

                                                                      If the FB user has "liked" a lot of different FB pages, they are going to get a steady stream of junk, content produced by those pages. So, for example, I will click 'like' on a page for a certain political group, and when they update their status, I will see it on my newsfeed. But I only get the updates from the pages that I have selected to receive them from. It's all up to the user.

                                                                      As for privacy, you can be as private, or not, as you wish. One even has the option of choosing to hide their profile completely except for friends. If one chose that option, that person's profile would not even turn up in a search on the FB site itself (even if the person searching is logged in), let alone in a google search. It's all about the user.

                                                                      If you are not logged in, you can only see significant content from users who leave it public.

                                                                      1. re: Cachetes
                                                                        h
                                                                        HillJ RE: Cachetes Apr 1, 2012 11:14 AM

                                                                        Thanks for detailing more of your experience, Cach. As an FB lurker, constantly being told (wined & dined) to join FB (endless welcome mats) I've seen enough publicly to know it's not for me. I'm not slamming those who enjoy FB, clearly I'm a minority on the enjoyment factor. But, I know I'm not alone in declining invitations to join the FB, Linkedin, Twitter, Pinterest, feeds and "fires" out there tearing up the www. It hasn't hurt my personal or professional life so chances are very good that I'll remain "mudstuck" in my selective, limited use of most social networks. At the end of the day, I'm just not a fan.

                                                                        1. re: HillJ
                                                                          Quine RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 12:09 PM

                                                                          I use FB to maintain contact with some family and a few friends, Linkin for some professional connections that use it and G+ for professional, personal and fun. The rest I can't figure out, the "why" of it.

                                                                        2. re: Cachetes
                                                                          Quine RE: Cachetes Apr 1, 2012 11:57 AM

                                                                          But to see ANYTHING, you must be logged into FB, you cannot just go to FB.com and see posts. All you will see is a log in/sign up screen.

                                                                          1. re: Quine
                                                                            h
                                                                            HillJ RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 12:15 PM

                                                                            Q, I'm able to see FB pages without being a registered member of FB. The only FB pages that come up login/signin screen for me are FB accounts that have a maxium privacy setting.

                                                                            1. re: HillJ
                                                                              drewskiSF RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 12:24 PM

                                                                              if you just load FB.com, all you see is a Sign-up/Sign-in.

                                                                              sure you can see info people have posted as public, but you have to know about and go to a specific FB page, if they aren't part of your regular feed.

                                                                              you can also browse through pages and see junk, but it's all junk you've chosen to go to or added to your own feed (if signed up) and is easily controlled.

                                                                              1. re: drewskiSF
                                                                                h
                                                                                HillJ RE: drewskiSF Apr 1, 2012 12:27 PM

                                                                                sure you can see info people have posted as public, but you have to know about and go to a specific FB page, if they aren't part of your regular feed.
                                                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                                                thanks drewski, this is exactly what I'm referring to. I have no reason to just type FB.com in a browser. I've only visited FB pages that had me a curious enough or seen pages FB users visit.

                                                                                1. re: HillJ
                                                                                  Quine RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 12:47 PM

                                                                                  I think that I am starting to understand now, you mean. You are clicking a link from outside FB and going to that link on FB. OK, sure that makes sense. I feel better now. :-)

                                                                                  1. re: Quine
                                                                                    h
                                                                                    HillJ RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 12:49 PM

                                                                                    Me too. For some odd reason I was struggling to explain my FB experience as a non-user.

                                                                            2. re: Quine
                                                                              huiray RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 12:31 PM

                                                                              Here are some random facebook pages of individuals or establishments associated with food (to keep it CH-topical) EASILY reached by me (a non-FB user without a FB account at all) from a Google search OR from the Home Page of the establishment, ALL viewable without logging in:
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/chefericripert
                                                                              https://www.facebook.com/Recess.RoomFour
                                                                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Next-R...
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tom-Col...
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/LidiaBastianich
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/EverestRestau...
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/ChefJoho?ref=ts
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/RestaurantL2O
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/Graffiato
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/ChefMikeIsabella
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/ChefThomasKeller
                                                                              http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hubert-...
                                                                              etc etc
                                                                              Note that the 2nd and 3rd above even have "https" at the start of the URL!

                                                                              1. re: huiray
                                                                                h
                                                                                HillJ RE: huiray Apr 1, 2012 12:37 PM

                                                                                Worked for me too,huiray. Thank you for providing examples.

                                                                                1. re: HillJ
                                                                                  drewskiSF RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 12:50 PM

                                                                                  regardless of if there are pages publicly viewable, I think the original point Quine was making is that it's under your control to modify what is pushed to you on a regular basis.

                                                                                  to see these pages like Huiray posted you need to find and navigate to them, just like any other website. some companies only have a FB presence and will be the main thing that pops up in a web search. you won't get ongoing posts from them just by visiting. you need to deliberately add them.

                                                                                  if you're getting a ton of junk in your ongoing feeds from your circle of FB "friends", it is because you've allowed it and you can just as easily stop the junk.

                                                                                  1. re: drewskiSF
                                                                                    h
                                                                                    HillJ RE: drewskiSF Apr 1, 2012 01:14 PM

                                                                                    I understand Quine's point. My point underscored that because of all of the reasons who've just outlined I'll more than likely never join FB. Because the minute you do you wind up with junk and information you didn't sign on for. Much the way some CH's have requested a feature that allows them to detach from an OP they no longer wish to participate it. So I'm fairly certain I've been following the original point and enjoying the sidebar conversation taking place as well.

                                                                                    Nothing like learning a few new details on a lovely Sunday afternoon.

                                                                                    1. re: HillJ
                                                                                      Justpaula RE: HillJ Apr 1, 2012 07:47 PM

                                                                                      Because the minute you do you wind up with junk and information you didn't sign on for.

                                                                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                                                                      I encounter this problem far, far, far more with my plain old email account. I have equal control on FB as I do on Hotmail, but it is actually easier to control on FB. My mother has 6 FB friends. My sister and I, one niece, and three cousins. She gets updates and pictures from six people she cares about. That's all.

                                                                                      All that aside, I have never encountered ANY sort of moderation - outside of self-moderation - on FB at all. I have read threads I wish I could moderate, alas that is not the nature of that social network. Put me in the camp with those not seeing how the two are comparable.

                                                                                      1. re: Justpaula
                                                                                        h
                                                                                        HillJ RE: Justpaula Apr 1, 2012 07:49 PM

                                                                                        hi Justpaula, I'm glad to hear FB works for you and your family.

                                                                        3. re: Quine
                                                                          linguafood RE: Quine Apr 1, 2012 11:03 AM

                                                                          Of course there are public posts. In fact, there are FB users who almost exclusively post *everything* publicly. Every single meal (even if it's the same dish over and over, but hey.... why not) or every single goddamn thought that goes through their heads. Verbal diarrhea.

                                                                          Some folks just think they're that fascinating. Good thing is you can hide those :-)

                                                                          1. re: linguafood
                                                                            RUK RE: linguafood Apr 1, 2012 02:27 PM

                                                                            Hmm, that took about 10 seconds to locate.... :-)
                                                                            (edited to add - my first sentence made sense before the moderators here jumped in and deleted a few posts, who knows why. On Fb WE choose whose stuff we want to read and who reads us, see below)

                                                                            I have never, ever, ever come across any Moderator action on Fb. I myself have however blocked/unfriended a person ( daily miserable profanity, poorly spelled too) and that was when I had about 10 friends, my children thought that was amusing. Also invitations to games are simply turned down.
                                                                            I use Fb mainly to stay in touch with family (also Family abroad), provide quick babysitting updates regarding grandchildren ( the working parents surely seem to appreciate that the little ones did something nice/new while they had to be away.) We share pictures and also links.
                                                                            It is not an all-consuming passion to post on Fb, and we are reasonably careful what we post and watch security settings.

                                                                            1. re: RUK
                                                                              hill food RE: RUK Apr 1, 2012 06:20 PM

                                                                              while this really was meant as a thread about CH policy I have to admit I had 3 FB ID's at one point, 2 'friended' each other and it went very badly. I had to 'de-friend' myself. it got ugly in a very public way (I had warned the other one I wasn't going to take that crap if it got all creepy again)

                                                                              here I just ignore, that's not so hard is it?

                                                                              1. re: hill food
                                                                                h
                                                                                HillJ RE: hill food Apr 1, 2012 06:22 PM

                                                                                hill food, you just made my case for staying the heck away from FB and using your own personal ignore monitor when you feel you need it. If CH ever installed an ignore button feature I would never use it. Babysitting for adults....let's not go there.

                                                                                1. re: HillJ
                                                                                  hill food RE: HillJ Apr 2, 2012 01:43 AM

                                                                                  yeah I only let one ID play on any given site these days...

                                                                                  (god I really do have too much time on my hands)

                                                                                2. re: hill food
                                                                                  RUK RE: hill food Apr 1, 2012 07:27 PM

                                                                                  I understood the OP as a comparison of FB moderation methods versus those of CH. The mods made my point by removing a couple of posts in this thread and so letting my reply hang in mid air and me scratching my head why those posts were offensive enough to be removed. No skin off my back whatsoever, just a tad odd. Btw I am actually very good at ignoring. :-)
                                                                                  On Fb YOU set the level of privacy and it is up to YOU what you want to put up with. And I am a little baffled to have people here bashing Fb in several threads. It is not that we don't see things discussed here in the most incredible minutia which can make a super Fb poster look like little Orphan Annie.
                                                                                  ( and of course I find a lot of good things on CH, otherwise I wouldn't be reading the boards.)

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